Interesting take on Shanahan, and the AFC Championship game

[Jesterhole]

http://blogs.foxsports.com/TheGreatWhiteDope/NFL_Draft


----There are many in Denver who would contend that John Elway is the second coming of Christ; there are far more who believe that Jake Plummer is the second coming of Judas.

It’s been almost a month now since Chris Berman made his last horrendous zinger and officially brought a close to the 2006 NFL Draft, and yet the city of Denver is still abuzz over the Broncos admittedly aggressive moves on that otherwise unremarkable day in April. The city loves the Javon Walker trade, and I don’t fault them for this, but what they’re really BLEEPing themselves over is the drafting of Jay Cutler.

“Finally,” they say in unison, as if they’ve been practicing their speech for months, “we can rid ourselves of that hideous malcontent commonly referred to as Jake Plummer. You know, he’s the reason we lost the AFC Championship last year; he’s the worst quarterback we’ve ever had in this town.”

Though their neglecting to remember the Denver careers of Tommy Maddox, Brian Griese, Bubby Brister, and a litany of others is absolutely inexcusable, the simple fact that this city seems to believe that replacing Jake Plummer is the Broncos’ most crucial and necessary step towards winning another superbowl is absolutely disgusting. You show me a man who believes Jake Plummer is the reason for Denver’s last three playoff embarrassments and I’ll show you a man who’s got his head so far up his ass that he could still be picking pieces of twinkies he ate in 5th grade out of his enlarged colon with his tongue.

That was more than a bit lurid, I apologize.

Jake is not the problem with this team, and he never has been. The problem, as it almost always seems to be, is coaching. Now, I’m not one of these Mike Shanahan haters; he’s a marquee coach who’s at the helm of a marquee organization. He’s an innovator, and an offensive genius, there’s no two ways about it, but he has no control over the defense – Larry Coyer does. The defense is the problem, and that man, seen as being a defensive mastermind by some, is an absolutely horrific strategist.

Let’s get one thing straight right off the bat: Larry Coyer came into the Broncos organization following the exodus of Ray Rhodes, who was undeniably awful in Denver. Furthermore, Rhodes was preceded by Greg Robinson, who later managed to do a worse job running the K.C. Chiefs’ defense than Gunther Cunningham. Astonishing, but oh so true. Really, the Broncos have not had a competent defensive coordinator since Wade Phillips was at the helm in the early 90’s (this was obviously back when Wade was actually a good coach). By accepting the position in 2003, Coyer nestled himself into a win/win situation; if he did a great job, he would be heralded as a savior, if he did a terrible job no one would notice because that’s what the team is used to.

Well, he’s done a terrible job for three years now, and as expected, no one in Denver seems to have noticed. His defensive schemes focus around blitzing repeatedly, incessantly… constantly, far far past the point of those blitzes actually being effective. He never gives his D lineman (who last year were the most talented group in the league, though this point could obviously be debated) the chance to establish themselves against the opposing teams’ offensive front. He sells the Broncos DBs, an extremely talented group, up the river by constantly placing them in single coverage situations. He has the fastest group of linebackers in the league, but he chooses to nullify this speed by running them into morbidly obese offensive lineman on every play. He does everything that he shouldn’t with shocking regularity, and yet he’s got more job security than any other member of the Broncos’ coaching staff.

It’s just blitz after blitz after blitz, and yet the Broncos rarely record any sacks. Has anyone questioned Larry’s ability to adjust his schemes because of this fact? No, the blame is instead deferred to Trevor Pryce’s back problems or the fact that we took so many players from Cleveland (why this is accepted as an argument against a player’s legitimacy is beyond me). Back in 2003, when the Broncos received their first merciless shellacking at the hands of the Indianapolis Colts, the team as a whole was blamed for the loss despite the fact that the Colts' offense simply outfoxed the Broncos defense on nearly every play they spent together on the field. “They just didn’t come to play that day, the whole team came out flat” the people said, and we moved on. 2004 came about, and once again we were blasted out of the playoffs by the Colts due to the fact that Coyer couldn’t devise a way to aid one rookie defensive back (Roc Alexander) in coverage; outside of the other tosses they made, the Colts accrued about 250 yards solely by throwing at Alexander. This wasn’t Coyer’s fault though, oh no, this was Mike Shanahan’s fault, apparently he was past his prime as of the end of this season. Foolishly, most would say, owner Pat Bowlen decided to keep Mike on board for at least one more season.


Then there was last season, which first handed Denver their first playoff win in the post-Elway era, then unceremoniously delivered to the Denver faithful the third consecutive playoff disappointment of the modern Shanahan era. The blame fell on Jake: He fumbled too much, he threw too many interceptions, he alone lost us this game, but that simply was not the case. True, he fumbled twice, and had one inexcusable interception at an inopportune moment during the game, but even if he'd gone turnover free in that particular contest, the Broncos wouldn't have had a shot of winning.

From the outset, Coyer lined up his DBs (including Champ Bailey, mind you) 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage on every single play. He’d seen the footage on the Steelers, they always seemed to clinch their wins by way of some preposterous trick play, so Coyer decided to intentionally keep his defense back on its heels so that Pittsburgh would never have a chance to execute a trick play. A cute ploy, no doubt, but that strategy sort of falls apart when the opposing team decides to counter that move by running about 40 non-trick 8 yard out patterns throughout the game, methodically moving up and down the field without exerting the slightest degree of effort. Even more impressively, Coyer didn’t bother to move his defensive backfield up at all for the third and fourth quarters despite the fact that the Steelers offense was absolutely obliterating his squad on the field; simply put, the man makes adjustments with the ease of an pock marked 8th grader trying to hide an erection. Of course, you know the rest, the Broncos got absolutely rolled, Jake Plummer became villified once more, and the Steelers got away with murder in both the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl. What no one remembers is that Larry Coyer was the man who gave them the knife.

Sure, if Jake had played better in the AFC Championship the game might have ended a little bit closer, but there’s no way the Broncos would have won the game unless they had another man at the helm of their defense. Unfortunately, it seems that it will take one more outright playoff collapse for the people of Denver to realize that something truly awful is occurring every Sunday in the coaches’ booth. Hopefully by the time Jay Cutler’s taking over the offense Coyer will be long gone, otherwise he might just end up being painted as a villain as well.

Jake doesn't deserve this type of treatment, and the people of Denver don't either. Coyer must go.

[Killericon]

Great article. Only thing I really disagree with is that "who last year were the most talented group in the league, though this point could obviously be debated". That should'nt be debated. There's no chance in hell of that being true.

[Clockwork Orange]

Oh goody. This has all the makings of another 12 page, "It was Jake's fault!" "No, it was the defense's fault!" finger pointing thread.

Hooray.

[Breck Bronc]

“Finally,” they say in unison, as if they’ve been practicing their speech for months, “we can rid ourselves of that hideous malcontent commonly referred to as Jake Plummer. You know, he’s the reason we lost the AFC Championship last year; he’s the worst quarterback we’ve ever had in this town.”I've yet to hear a single person say that Plummer is the worst quarterback in franchise history, but what do I know, I only live here.

[Clockwork Orange]

I've yet to hear a single person say that Plummer is the worst quarterback in franchise history, but what do I know, I only live here.

The guy who wrote this piece obviously subscribes to the idea of never letting the facts get in the way of a good story.

[~Crash~]

wow is all I got to say .... makes you go hmmmmmmmm...

[BroncoInferno]

What a fool. Coyer turned street guys like Herndon, Fatafayi, Spragan, and Ferguson into solid contribuotrs, while revitalizing the careers of perceived underacheivers like Courteney Brown and Gerrad Warren. He's done a solid job...we just need to get more consistent with the pass rush from the front four. Maybe we'll accomplish that this season; that remains to be seen. But he's not in charge of personel decisions.

[The Big E]

Oh goody. This has all the makings of another 12 page, "It was Jake's fault!" "No, it was the defense's fault!" finger pointing thread.

Hooray.
No ****.

:deadhorse

[Florida_Bronco]

This article makes some of the same arguments about Coyer that I've heard from lots of people on this board. I personally think Coyer is good (not great though) but I think he needs to look at re-designing his scheme.

Just my opinion though.

[~Crash~]

the blitz started around week 5 or 6 and I belive Coyer started that because we were not getting to the QB . I will say this Coyer seem slow to make changes on the fly.... Our Oline lost the game for us not the D JMOT...

[Florida_Bronco]

Our Oline lost the game for us not the D JMOT...

Our whole team sucked and lost that game. From the top to the bottom it was just a sucky performance.

[Kaylore]

Our whole team sucked and lost that game. From the top to the bottom it was just a sucky performance.
:thanku:

[12th man]

We could point finger all we want, to who lost the afc championship game. It's the offense, defense and coaching that lost that game. We abondend the running game early, and that hurt. We dropped like 4 or 5 int's. the bottom line is, the entire team lost that game.

Also, people can hate on Coyar all they want, but he had a very sucesful defense last year. What he is doing in the scheme of things is working very well. We are a very fast defense and our line and linbackers can get to the qb, get pressure and casue the qb to make poor decions. I agree though at times we blitzed too many people. but part of that is to blame on the dline at times when they couldn't get to the qb. We are not just speed though, we have some hard hitters out there too. you have to love our D. If our line can play dominate all season next year, our D is going to be even better if you can imagine that.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Coyer's a fine defensive coordinator. I'd take him over Gunther for sure.

[Florida_Bronco]

Coyer's a fine defensive coordinator. I'd take him over Gunther for sure.

I agree, I don't think he's bad at all. I do think he needs to work on his schemes and make more adjustments though.

[2KBack]

This article makes some of the same arguments about Coyer that I've heard from lots of people on this board. I personally think Coyer is good (not great though) but I think he needs to look at re-designing his scheme.

Just my opinion though.

and my opinion as well. I'll repeat my mantra, the scheme needs more adjustment than the talent.

[Atlas]

Great article. Only thing I really disagree with is that "who last year were the most talented group in the league, though this point could obviously be debated". That should'nt be debated. There's no chance in hell of that being true.

That was a horrible article. The only reason Denver "blitz, blitz,blitz" as the author put it was because Denver could not get a pass rush from their front four. They had to do something and that "blitz, blitz,blitz" helped Denver to a #4 defensive ranking. Coyer did what he could considering the lack of pass rush.

I love how everyone bashes Robinson saying he was horrible. Fact is his defensives were behind 2 Superbowl victories. Excuse me but in 1998 Denver defense gave up a total of 32 points in 3 playoff games. Another fact was Denver's defense got worse after they fired Robinson and after KC fired Robinson their defense with Gunther was actually worse!!

The fact is Coyer like Robinson has done a good job with what he has to work with.

Denver lost to Pittsburgh by 17. Big Ben turned over the ball ZERO times Plummer turned the ball over 4 times.

With D. Will out Denver's defense played bad in the first half and Jakes mistakes kept them out of the game in the second half.

[Taco John]

http://blogs.foxsports.com/TheGreatWhiteDope/NFL_Draft


“Finally,” they say in unison, as if they’ve been practicing their speech for months, “we can rid ourselves of that hideous malcontent commonly referred to as Jake Plummer. You know, he’s the reason we lost the AFC Championship last year; he’s the worst quarterback we’ve ever had in this town.”



Who wants to help me stuff this strawman?

http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/strawman.gif


I don't know who this "expert" is, but as a guy who has been involved with Broncos talk every single day of the year for the better part of the last three years (plus seven before that), I can't say that I've ever run into anyone who says that Jake Plummer is the worst quarterback that the Broncos have ever had. Already out the gates, the guy tells me he doesn't know what he's talking about. What's the point of finishing the article when you already know he's full of it?

[Taco John]

Oh God... This guy is blaming Coyer... I haven't read it yet, but now I've got a reason to: to see if this "expert" even made mention of the fact that we were starting a rookie at CB for the second year in a row, and Coyer had to account for that.

[Taco John]

Oh man... I can't get past the licking twinkies out of my colon part. Someone's going to have to tell me if this moron makes a point worth considering.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Popps wrote this and Orange 4 Life edited it.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

who last year were the most talented group in the league

Wow. That's a reach if I ever saw one.

[Clockwork Orange]

Popps wrote this and Orange 4 Life edited it.

O4L could never bring himself to say anything like that about Plummer.

[-Slap-]

O4L could never bring himself to say anything like that about Plummer.
And the article contained capital letters and punctuation.

[youcandoit1687]

Wow. That's a reach if I ever saw one.


i think we can all agree with Bob on this one. there are many Dlines that are more talented.

courtney brown averages 3 sacks a year and 2 sacks last year
ebenezer ekuban averages 3.5 sacks a year and 4 sacks last year
john engelberger averages 3 sacks a year and 0 sacks last year
luther elliss averages 2.5 sacks a year and 2 sacks last year
michael myers averages 1.5 sacks a year and 1 sack last year
gerard warren averages 4 sacks a year and 3 sacks last year

are u gonna tell me that peppers-buckner-jenkins-rucker

rucker averages 7 sacks a year and had 7.5
peppers averages 10 sacks a year and had 10.5

those are just two DLineman who out average and out produce our linemen, tell me they arent more talented

granted, sacks arent all to measure by but they say a lot

the only possibly rationale for the authors words are that was we have a lot of players who have potential and were drafted high. i dont agree with that but that COULD be his thinking

[SoCalBronco]

Coyer is a very good defensive coordinator, we are lucky to have him.

[Clockwork Orange]

And the article contained capital letters and punctuation.

Which automatically removed yavoon from the equation as well. It's far too short to have been written by Hulamau. It doesn't make mention of the misuse of DJ Williams, so it wasn't SoCal. It didn't end in ... so it couldn't have been TJ. No Ian Gold bashing either, so it looks like you're in the clear too. ;D

[-Slap-]

Anybody who slogged or skimmed their way to the end of the article was in for a treat. The guy says Coyer was so afraid of Pittsburgh's trick plays he made our defense play back all game long.

[Taco John]

Personally, I think Coyer's scheme is underrated, given that we don't invest a lot of money in the front four. I think if anybody has complaints, they should be directed to Shanahan, who has used this template for the last ten years. Shanahan doesn't invest a lot of money up front. He looks for hungry veterans who are going to play a role, and puts the team cash in linebackers and secondary. It's how we won back to back Superbowls: Thrilling offense, and solid defense. But we're not going to get what we need out of our defense if our offense is choking up turnovers. We simply can't play on our heels on defense. We don't have the power up front we need for that. As a result, we rely on our offense to execute the game plan.

Any blame thrown at the defense without mentioning our the turnovers and three and outs that our offense has racked up in the first quarter isn't going to get a whole lot of traction. It's clear that this trend bothers Shanahan, because he's made a move to replace Plummer. It's the smartes move he could have made. Plummer is not going to be able to go into a playoff game and throw multiple turnovers without losing his job. I don't see how this can be perceived as a bad thing. When directly faced with a challenge, Plummer usually steps up to it.

[Kaylore]

Every year Coyer's schemed the defense toward producing the results the staff has said they wanted to see. Remember how our D-line two years ago looked like legit players and most of those players aren't even second string talent if they can even make a team at all?

"Get more turnovers, Larry."

"Ok. I'll get so many turnovers it'll make you puke!"

I hope that our redzone and third down defense responds as immediately as the other focus points have.

[atomicbloke]

I agree with this guy. Larry Coyer's bonehead schemes cost us big time. He used his Dlinemen, especially Warren as a clogger. So that the LB's could rush the QB. If his scheme allowed the DL to make plays, we would have gotten more sacks.

Also, Coyer has no imagination in adjusting his scheme during a game. Many times our second half defense was bad bacause the other team figured out our blitz and Coyer didn't change them. As the season wore on, the other teams figured us out and Coyer scheme stayed the same.

Does anyone remember the Giants game? It was Coyer's idiocy that lost us that game. He was playing prevent prevent defense during the last drive. The CBs were playing to restrcit the big play and that allowed Eli Manning to move the chains. And on the last play, Coyer called a bonehead blitz again. If Lynch had stayed behind in coverage then Amani Toomer would never have gotten open.

Coyer is the weak link in our coaching staff and this guy hits the nail right on the head.

[Atlas]

[subhead] I can't say that I've ever run into anyone who says that Jake Plummer is the worst quarterback that the Broncos have ever had. Already out the gates, the guy tells me he doesn't know what he's talking about. What's the point of finishing the article when you already know he's full of it?

Jake might be the second best QB in Denver Bronco history. Tripuka was good but he was old and only played 3 losing seasons in Denver. Morten was alway just adequate. Kubiak might have been better than Morten if he would have been given a chance although he did lack the physical tools to be an every week starter. Charley Johnson was decent but not as good as Morten...
Ramsey, Weese... Nope

[Atlas]

I agree with this guy. Larry Coyer's bonehead schemes cost us big time. He used his Dlinemen, especially Warren as a clogger. So that the LB's could rush the QB. If his scheme allowed the DL to make plays, we would have gotten more sacks.
.

Your wrong. Denver didn't "blitz,blitz,blitz" like the author points out until after the first couple of games when the DL already had proved that they couldn't get to the QB.

I also remember everytime Denver pulled out of the blitz and rushed 4 they never got to the QB.

Hopefully Brown and whoever the other end is will get more pressure this year.

And another thing your take on Warren is absurb. He is a clogger. In fact most DTs are. He collapses the pocket and he did that very well. Denver's "blitz,blitz,blitz" scheme probably didn't effect his game any at all since that is what he does anyway.

[atomicbloke]

And another thing your take on Warren is absurb. He is a clogger. In fact most DTs are. He collapses the pocket and he did that very well. Denver's "blitz,blitz,blitz" scheme probably didn't effect his game any at all since that is what he does anyway.

Not necesarily. Warren himself is on record saying that he was frustrated in last year's scheme because Coyer limited his playmaking to just engaging blockers. He wanted to penetrate the pocket, get to the QB and make plays.

Coyer lacks imagination and doesn't play to the DL's strength. He relies too much on blitzes and hence leaves the CBs on an island. As a result Champ and Co had to play 10 yards off the opposing receivers. Great if you want to avoid conceding the big play. But it ensures the offense can move the chains at will. As we all saw in the AFCCG.

[24champ]

Well personally there is enough blame to go around for the AFC Ship loss, when Champ Bailey missed that INT in the Steelers game, I knew it wasnt going to be our day. Im just sick and tired of going to the playoffs and getting our ass handed to us these last couple years. I want a fvcking super bowl this year to make up for those crap games I had to sit and watch.;D

[Ballhawk]

Not necesarily. Warren himself is on record saying that he was frustrated in last year's scheme because Coyer limited his playmaking to just engaging blockers. He wanted to penetrate the pocket, get to the QB and make plays.



Warren was so frustrted, that he told his agent to get a deal done to stay here. CB & JE also did new deals and Im sure all the Browncos told Lang to come join in the Frustration that is being a Denver Dlineman.

I will take wins over sacks.

[baja]

http://blogs.foxsports.com/TheGreatWhiteDope/NFL_Draft


----There are many in Denver who would contend that John Elway is the second coming of Christ; there are far more who believe that Jake Plummer is the second coming of Judas.

It’s been almost a month now since Chris Berman made his last horrendous zinger and officially brought a close to the 2006 NFL Draft, and yet the city of Denver is still abuzz over the Broncos admittedly aggressive moves on that otherwise unremarkable day in April. The city loves the Javon Walker trade, and I don’t fault them for this, but what they’re really BLEEPing themselves over is the drafting of Jay Cutler.

“Finally,” they say in unison, as if they’ve been practicing their speech for months, “we can rid ourselves of that hideous malcontent commonly referred to as Jake Plummer. You know, he’s the reason we lost the AFC Championship last year; he’s the worst quarterback we’ve ever had in this town.”

Though their neglecting to remember the Denver careers of Tommy Maddox, Brian Griese, Bubby Brister, and a litany of others is absolutely inexcusable, the simple fact that this city seems to believe that replacing Jake Plummer is the Broncos’ most crucial and necessary step towards winning another superbowl is absolutely disgusting. You show me a man who believes Jake Plummer is the reason for Denver’s last three playoff embarrassments and I’ll show you a man who’s got his head so far up his ass that he could still be picking pieces of twinkies he ate in 5th grade out of his enlarged colon with his tongue.

That was more than a bit lurid, I apologize.

Jake is not the problem with this team, and he never has been. The problem, as it almost always seems to be, is coaching. Now, I’m not one of these Mike Shanahan haters; he’s a marquee coach who’s at the helm of a marquee organization. He’s an innovator, and an offensive genius, there’s no two ways about it, but he has no control over the defense – Larry Coyer does. The defense is the problem, and that man, seen as being a defensive mastermind by some, is an absolutely horrific strategist.

Let’s get one thing straight right off the bat: Larry Coyer came into the Broncos organization following the exodus of Ray Rhodes, who was undeniably awful in Denver. Furthermore, Rhodes was preceded by Greg Robinson, who later managed to do a worse job running the K.C. Chiefs’ defense than Gunther Cunningham. Astonishing, but oh so true. Really, the Broncos have not had a competent defensive coordinator since Wade Phillips was at the helm in the early 90’s (this was obviously back when Wade was actually a good coach). By accepting the position in 2003, Coyer nestled himself into a win/win situation; if he did a great job, he would be heralded as a savior, if he did a terrible job no one would notice because that’s what the team is used to.

Well, he’s done a terrible job for three years now, and as expected, no one in Denver seems to have noticed. His defensive schemes focus around blitzing repeatedly, incessantly… constantly, far far past the point of those blitzes actually being effective. He never gives his D lineman (who last year were the most talented group in the league, though this point could obviously be debated) the chance to establish themselves against the opposing teams’ offensive front. He sells the Broncos DBs, an extremely talented group, up the river by constantly placing them in single coverage situations. He has the fastest group of linebackers in the league, but he chooses to nullify this speed by running them into morbidly obese offensive lineman on every play. He does everything that he shouldn’t with shocking regularity, and yet he’s got more job security than any other member of the Broncos’ coaching staff.

It’s just blitz after blitz after blitz, and yet the Broncos rarely record any sacks. Has anyone questioned Larry’s ability to adjust his schemes because of this fact? No, the blame is instead deferred to Trevor Pryce’s back problems or the fact that we took so many players from Cleveland (why this is accepted as an argument against a player’s legitimacy is beyond me). Back in 2003, when the Broncos received their first merciless shellacking at the hands of the Indianapolis Colts, the team as a whole was blamed for the loss despite the fact that the Colts' offense simply outfoxed the Broncos defense on nearly every play they spent together on the field. “They just didn’t come to play that day, the whole team came out flat” the people said, and we moved on. 2004 came about, and once again we were blasted out of the playoffs by the Colts due to the fact that Coyer couldn’t devise a way to aid one rookie defensive back (Roc Alexander) in coverage; outside of the other tosses they made, the Colts accrued about 250 yards solely by throwing at Alexander. This wasn’t Coyer’s fault though, oh no, this was Mike Shanahan’s fault, apparently he was past his prime as of the end of this season. Foolishly, most would say, owner Pat Bowlen decided to keep Mike on board for at least one more season.


Then there was last season, which first handed Denver their first playoff win in the post-Elway era, then unceremoniously delivered to the Denver faithful the third consecutive playoff disappointment of the modern Shanahan era. The blame fell on Jake: He fumbled too much, he threw too many interceptions, he alone lost us this game, but that simply was not the case. True, he fumbled twice, and had one inexcusable interception at an inopportune moment during the game, but even if he'd gone turnover free in that particular contest, the Broncos wouldn't have had a shot of winning.

From the outset, Coyer lined up his DBs (including Champ Bailey, mind you) 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage on every single play. He’d seen the footage on the Steelers, they always seemed to clinch their wins by way of some preposterous trick play, so Coyer decided to intentionally keep his defense back on its heels so that Pittsburgh would never have a chance to execute a trick play. <b> A cute ploy, no doubt, but that strategy sort of falls apart when the opposing team decides to counter that move by running about 40 non-trick 8 yard out patterns throughout the game, methodically moving up and down the field without exerting the slightest degree of effort.</b> Even more impressively, Coyer didn’t bother to move his defensive backfield up at all for the third and fourth quarters despite the fact that the Steelers offense was absolutely obliterating his squad on the field; simply put, the man makes adjustments with the ease of an pock marked 8th grader trying to hide an erection. Of course, you know the rest, the Broncos got absolutely rolled, Jake Plummer became villified once more, and the Steelers got away with murder in both the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl. What no one remembers is that Larry Coyer was the man who gave them the knife.

Sure, if Jake had played better in the AFC Championship the game might have ended a little bit closer, but there’s no way the Broncos would have won the game unless they had another man at the helm of their defense. Unfortunately, it seems that it will take one more outright playoff collapse for the people of Denver to realize that something truly awful is occurring every Sunday in the coaches’ booth. Hopefully by the time Jay Cutler’s taking over the offense Coyer will be long gone, otherwise he might just end up being painted as a villain as well.

Jake doesn't deserve this type of treatment, and the people of Denver don't either. Coyer must go.


Soooo true.....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Interesting take on Shanahan, and the AFC Championship game

Who wrote this crap paper fodder?

[elsid13]

This is the second time, that someone talked about the talent of the d-line. Butch Davis stated that if Coyer had release the defense line that they would lead the league in sacks on NFL playbook. Plus Pryce also complied about the scheme of holding the offense line off the LB. I think that Coyer is growing into the DC role and still make mistakes, this is his 2nd year as the NFL man. He needs to find the balance of releasing the D line after the QB/forgetting the run and still keeping the LB clean. There is talent, Coyer needs to develop his scheme to allow all parts to function at the top level.

[Bronco X]

Though their neglecting to remember the Denver careers of Tommy Maddox, Brian Griese, Bubby Brister, and a litany of others is absolutely inexcusable, the simple fact that this city seems to believe that replacing Jake Plummer is the Broncos’ most crucial and necessary step towards winning another superbowl is absolutely disgusting. You show me a man who believes Jake Plummer is the reason for Denver’s last three playoff embarrassments and I’ll show you a man who’s got his head so far up his ass that he could still be picking pieces of twinkies he ate in 5th grade out of his enlarged colon with his tongue.


I couldn't get past this paragraph without dismissing the entire piece. People who make broad generalizations like this are compensating for lack of an interesting take. He could have simply argued that he didn't believe Jake was a factor in the loss, but instead he makes an obtuse and inaccurate generalization about what "the entire city is thinking". Most people who felt Jake didn't perform well enough also acknowlege the defense didn't perform well enough either. Sorry, but the last sentence of this paragraph accurately describes the writer.

[-Slap-]

This is the second time, that someone talked about the talent of the d-line. Butch Davis stated that if Coyer had release the defense line that they would lead the league in sacks on NFL playbook. Plus Pryce also complied about the scheme of holding the offense line off the LB. I think that Coyer is growing into the DC role and still make mistakes, this is his 2nd year as the NFL man. He needs to find the balance of releasing the D line after the QB/forgetting the run and still keeping the LB clean. There is talent, Coyer needs to develop his scheme to allow all parts to function at the top level.
But we have to protect Ian from those big bad linemen. Who wants LBs who can take on and shed blocks or stack things up at the point of attack? Our guys are, like, superduper fast!

[Spider]

So it was Coyers fault we lost the AFC Championship game ....notice on how we always have an escape goat instead of admitting we got our asses kicked ?
thats what happened Steelers line up man on man and beat us , evn if it was a poor game plan , that still doesnt excuse the lack of play making ..... no excuses for the lack of short yardage and goal line defense

[-Slap-]

So it was Coyers fault we lost the AFC Championship game ....notice on how we always have an escape goat instead of admitting we got our asses kicked ?
thats what happened Steelers line up man on man and beat us , evn if it was a poor game plan , that still doesnt excuse the lack of play making ..... no excuses for the lack of short yardage and goal line defense
http://www.co-opliving.com/coopliving/issues/2003/NovemberDecember%202003/Images/cheese3.jpg

Escape Goat

[Sir Mawn]

My take on Coyer:

I think Coyer's a great position coach. He's a great evaulator of talent (we've drafted well on defense the last couple of years) and knows how to get the most out of his players (see Warren, Ekuban, Spragan, Dominique, etc).

The problem, in my opinion, lies on his game planning. He's not an elite strategist on any level and that becomes evident several weeks a year. Teams running 8 yard slants or outs and killing us for 60 minutes has become so normal I have nightmares about it. Sure, the talent level up front could be improved, but I never see Coyer adjust after a weakness in the defense has been exposed. Never.

In the end I think Coyer's an evaulator, a motivator and a coach that teaches fundamentals. That's a great resume for a position coach. No more.

[HEAV]

Defense was horrid on 3rd and long.

Shanny went away from the run.

Lepsis and Foster had feet of stone, allowing the LB's of the Steelers to dominate the game. Mainly Joey Porter who was repeatedly in Jake face and on his back.

Jake was a warrior in that game. Yes he made the bad toss to Alexander that was picked. But look at the other drops by Rod and Putz, then the typical play of Ash one minute I'm here the next I'm not.

It was a bad game plan plan. Really bad.

As far as Cutler. Once Shanny forces Jake out and starts Cutler. It will only take one bad game for many , on here and in the media, to crusify him.

Elway's gone. Jake's been excellent here. Better stats, more wins and playoff appearance than Greise ball.

Cutler may be the second coming. Only question is which second coming Elway or Greise?

[MechanicalBull]

I agree, I don't think he's bad at all. I do think he needs to work on his schemes and make more adjustments though.

Didn't Sundquist say on one of his QandA's that they are going to be changing up the schemes a little bit to put some more pressure on the QB and he thinks we have the guys that can rush but the team was more about stopping the run?

[Play2win]

Jake will lead us to playoffs year after year... But he will never win a superbowl for us... UNLESS every other unit on this team is overperforming and playing over the top... Basically every unit on our team has to play with pure perfection in order for us to Win a Superbowl with JAKE at the Helm... Thats just how it shakes out... JAKE is the BOTTLENECK to this team's ultimate success...

[Kaylore]

http://www.co-opliving.com/coopliving/issues/2003/NovemberDecember%202003/Images/cheese3.jpg

Escape Goat
LOL So that's what an "escape goat" is. Are they related to the scape goats?

[Popps]

Popps wrote this and Orange 4 Life edited it.

Nah.

I'd blame our defensive personnel, not Coyer... though he's treading on thin ice, as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of what our offense has done, his defense has absolutely collapsed in three straight playoff losses. (Early and complete collapses in the first half.) Something's not right, and it may not all be player-related.

The real problem is what it has been... our front 7 is weak. Pryce was O.K... Wilson can play, and nothing beyond that scares anyone.

We're terrible in almost every measurable statistic against the pass, including almost last in sacks.

The writer did get one thing right, though. Those without much insight always just point to the most obvious thing... the QB. But, if you've watched a little football, you know that John Elway couldn't have won that Pittsburgh game, much less Jay Cutler.

It's not a BAD thing that we got Cutler unless the staff is as clueless as some of our fans in that they think it's the final piece of the puzzle... because it's far from it.

[Popps]

Jake will lead us to playoffs year after year... But he will never win a superbowl for us... UNLESS every other unit on this team is overperforming and playing over the top... Basically every unit on our team has to play with pure perfection in order for us to Win a Superbowl with JAKE at the Helm... Thats just how it shakes out... JAKE is the BOTTLENECK to this team's ultimate success...

That's a bit harsh, man. They guy has done a lot in Denver and won a lot of big games. He's compiled a .750 winning percentage with marginal talent around him on offense. He does PLENTY on his own.

What can't happen... is our defense can't lay for their usual 30 points in the first half.

Everyone just needs to show up, including Plummer. We saw it happen against NE, and not coincidentally... we won.

[watermock]

The guy is an idiot...he can't make up his mind who to blame on a 14-4 team.

Plummer turned the ball over 4 times and the D let them convert 21 of 26 third downs.

Bashing the Cutler pick is just plain ignorant a second after he goes into a Plummer tirade.

I'll go on about this neophyte...we all know we had trouble getting to the QB, but we did get pressure and our T.O.'s went up dramatically. We lost to the top ranked defense in the AFC.

The whole article is a half baked tirade. We all screamed and cried Orange Blood, but when some hack that doesn't know half of what many us know, we circle the wagons, not because we don't see fundamental problems, but because every team barring a few have as well.

What I don't get is how the fool can hammer the Cutler pick and Jake at the same time. Noone was clamoring for Cutler or anyone else...it was just an opportunity to snatch an elite, potential franchise QB and I haven't heard anything but praise...the kid just said he was going to go home and read a good book...the playbook.

We have a ton of good prospects in the seconday that have a year under their belt as well.

[Play2win]

That's a bit harsh, man. They guy has done a lot in Denver and won a lot of big games. He's compiled a .750 winning percentage with marginal talent around him on offense. He does PLENTY on his own.

What can't happen... is our defense can't lay for their usual 30 points in the first half.

Everyone just needs to show up, including Plummer. We saw it happen against NE, and not coincidentally... we won.

I'm just being honest. Jake will win a lot of gave for us and he will get us to the playoffs... But I don't think just getting to the playoffs is our main goal...

[RhymesayersDU]

Oh goody. This has all the makings of another 12 page, "It was Jake's fault!" "No, it was the defense's fault!" finger pointing thread.

Hooray.
Just practice for the 12-page "Bench Jake Plummer" thread, coming to a theater near you Fall 2006.

[Atlas]

The writer did get one thing right, though. Those without much insight always just point to the most obvious thing... the QB. But, if you've watched a little football, you know that John Elway couldn't have won that Pittsburgh game, much less Jay Cutler.
.

I disagree. Denver lost by 17 points and Plummer turned the ball over 4 times..... You don't think John Elway would have made a difference in that game???

My how quickly we forget.

[Kaylore]

Just practice for the 12-page "Bench Jake Plummer" thread, coming to a theater near you Fall 2006. I wonder what the over/under is on how many interceptions before that starts.

[Atlas]

I wonder what the over/under is on how many interceptions before that starts.


Hopefully Denver starts out 6-0 and Cutler keeps his ass on the bench the whole year.

[watermock]

Elway was 12 of 22 for a whopping 123 yards 0 TD's with a pick in the SB win against GB.

[Popps]

I'm just being honest. Jake will win a lot of gave for us and he will get us to the playoffs... But I don't think just getting to the playoffs is our main goal...

Right, but why is it only Jake that has to show up during playoff games? Wouldn't it be logical that if we win one way during the season.... that same formula should be used during the playoffs?

You win playoff games by playing defense and running the ball, first. We couldn't do either against Indy/Indy/Pitt.

Why is it that those aspects of our team.... those other 21 players all get a free pass?

Sure, we need to play a complete game for Jake to win it all. That just means he's not John Elway. Plenty of teams have won SBs without John Elway.

We need a complete effort, and that has to start with amassing some actual talent on the D-line.

[Popps]

I wonder what the over/under is on how many interceptions before that starts.

Well, considering he was about as good as any QB in the league at not throwing INTs last year, Cutler may have to sit for a bit.

[clean]

The scapegoat bears the blame for a multitude of problems. The escape goat is the one who should actually be blamed, but bears no responsibility?

[Hulamau]

My take on Coyer:

I think Coyer's a great position coach. He's a great evaulator of talent (we've drafted well on defense the last couple of years) and knows how to get the most out of his players (see Warren, Ekuban, Spragan, Dominique, etc).

The problem, in my opinion, lies on his game planning. He's not an elite strategist on any level and that becomes evident several weeks a year. Teams running 8 yard slants or outs and killing us for 60 minutes has become so normal I have nightmares about it. Sure, the talent level up front could be improved, but I never see Coyer adjust after a weakness in the defense has been exposed. Never.

In the end I think Coyer's an evaulator, a motivator and a coach that teaches fundamentals. That's a great resume for a position coach. No more.

Thas my sense of a Coyer as well. He has a lot of fundamental knowledge and is a great teacher and hands on coach during the week, but often seems a bit lost at in game adjstments and quick descision making under fire which really cost us in the AFC championship game.

If we could pair Coyer with another co-cordinator or game time play caller on D it might be the formula. We can still win it all with Coyer in all likelihood, asuming he gets more creative and felxible during games this year.

I wouldnt blame the whole lose on him though. That was a 53 man and coaching staff butt whippin'. Every one of em needs to look in the mirror on that one.

[Popps]

I disagree. Denver lost by 17 points and Plummer turned the ball over 4 times..... You don't think John Elway would have made a difference in that game???

My how quickly we forget.

No, my memory is crystal clear.

Elway had multiple turnovers in our SB losses. So, we should have replaced him, right?

I also remember Jacksonville coming into OUR house and beating up on us because we couldn't play any defense. John couldn't stop that, either.

I watched every game he played in his career. Every one. Don't tell me that he did it all by himself. He suffered greatly when his team collapsed around him.

Plummer had ONE INT in the first half... near the end of the half, when we were in a desperation, pass-only mode.

The only reason Pittsburgh didn't score 50 points in that game is that they too their foot off of the accelerator in the 2nd half.

John Elway wouldn't have been able to suit up and play defense.

[El Minion]

Oh goody. This has all the makings of another 12 page, "It was Jake's fault!" "No, it was the defense's fault!" finger pointing thread.

Hooray.


I'm getting the feeling that Plummer is maybe this eras Danny White.

[12th man]

No, my memory is crystal clear.

Elway had multiple turnovers in our SB losses. So, we should have replaced him, right?

I also remember Jacksonville coming into OUR house and beating up on us because we couldn't play any defense. John couldn't stop that, either.

I watched every game he played in his career. Every one. Don't tell me that he did it all by himself. He suffered greatly when his team collapsed around him.

Plummer had ONE INT in the first half... near the end of the half, when we were in a desperation, pass-only mode.

The only reason Pittsburgh didn't score 50 points in that game is that they too their foot off of the accelerator in the 2nd half.

John Elway wouldn't have been able to suit up and play defense.
I agree Popps. That was a terrible day for the D. More specificly the line. we jsut couldn't get pressure, and also our secondary dropped like 4 or 5 int's. that game we abonded the run early. plummer still did turn the ball over. it was just a bad game. that's all. everyone is to blame that game.

[Wes Mantooth]

I agree with the article. I however, thought the season to be lost last year if it were not for the excessive all out blitzes. We tried to play a normal game against Miami and lost. We were loosing in week two and in the second half of that game they just went bannanas with the blitz and never quit.

[12th man]

I agree with the article. I however, thought the season to be lost last year if it were not for the excessive all out blitzes. We tried to play a normal game against Miami and lost. We were loosing in week two and in the second half of that game they just went bannanas with the blitz and never quit.
Exactly. The blitz is our thing. It works well. I am convinced we are the best blitzing team in the league. We blitzed against some top notch qb's and we got the best of them. Like brees, Mcnabb, brady twice. It worked extemely well when the line was getting to the qb early in the season as well. It's just at the end of the season the line was running out of gas. hopefully they will be better prepared this year.

[Cito Pelon]

Didn't Sundquist say on one of his QandA's that they are going to be changing up the schemes a little bit to put some more pressure on the QB and he thinks we have the guys that can rush but the team was more about stopping the run?

Yes. Little noticed, but significant.

The bottom line is the team - players and staff as a whole - can't waste opportunities like the one that came their way last year. To not even compete at home on a beautiful sunny day, how does that happen? To me, if you play hard, have some superb playmaking, it's a dogfight from opening whistle to final whistle, then you can be proud of youself no matter what the scoreboard reads. But to not even compete as a team from the opening whistle on, in the biggest game played at Mile High in 7 years, how is that allowed to happen? We'll see how the team responds, we'll see how much character they have, how much they want to compete, how much they hate to lose in a humiliating fashion.

[Atlas]

Elway was 12 of 22 for a whopping 123 yards 0 TD's with a pick in the SB win against GB.

He didn't turn the ball over 4 times did he? He also ran for a TD and he had one of the biggest 8 yard runs in football history. But your point is well taken he didn't have a great game BUT what does this have to do with last years AFC Championship game???

[Atlas]

No, my memory is crystal clear.

Elway had multiple turnovers in our SB losses. So, we should have replaced him, right?

I also remember Jacksonville coming into OUR house and beating up on us because we couldn't play any defense. John couldn't stop that, either.

I watched every game he played in his career. Every one. Don't tell me that he did it all by himself. He suffered greatly when his team collapsed around him.

Plummer had ONE INT in the first half... near the end of the half, when we were in a desperation, pass-only mode.

The only reason Pittsburgh didn't score 50 points in that game is that they too their foot off of the accelerator in the 2nd half.

John Elway wouldn't have been able to suit up and play defense.

So you are saying that Plummer is just as good as Elway?? What does Denver's past Superbowl blowouts have to do with last years AFC Championship game??

Plummer had a horrible game and if Elway was in his prime playing for Denver you say there is NO chance Denver wins?? That's absurb.

[Cito Pelon]

Jake will lead us to playoffs year after year... But he will never win a superbowl for us... UNLESS every other unit on this team is overperforming and playing over the top... Basically every unit on our team has to play with pure perfection in order for us to Win a Superbowl with JAKE at the Helm... Thats just how it shakes out... JAKE is the BOTTLENECK to this team's ultimate success...

Come on, jeez. Bottleneck? And yeah, every unit has to play with pure perfection to win an SB. They just don't fall into your lap, you know.

[baja]

So it was Coyer's fault we lost the AFC Championship game ...notice on how we always have an escape goat instead of admitting we got our asses kicked ?
thats what happened Steelers line up man on man and beat us , even if it was a poor game plan , that still doesn't excuse the lack of play making ..... no excuses for the lack of short yardage and goal line defense

I don't think you can pin the loss on any one player or coach but Coyer is the DC and they never adjusted to quick out for the whole game. How many third and longs did Pittsburg make, it was ridiculous

[Cito Pelon]

Nah.

I'd blame our defensive personnel, not Coyer... though he's treading on thin ice, as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of what our offense has done, his defense has absolutely collapsed in three straight playoff losses. (Early and complete collapses in the first half.) Something's not right, and it may not all be player-related.

The real problem is what it has been... our front 7 is weak. Pryce was O.K... Wilson can play, and nothing beyond that scares anyone.

We're terrible in almost every measurable statistic against the pass, including almost last in sacks.

The writer did get one thing right, though. Those without much insight always just point to the most obvious thing... the QB. But, if you've watched a little football, you know that John Elway couldn't have won that Pittsburgh game, much less Jay Cutler.

It's not a BAD thing that we got Cutler unless the staff is as clueless as some of our fans in that they think it's the final piece of the puzzle... because it's far from it.

Well, the bottom line is the best O's have out-played and out-coached Denver's D. That doesn't necessarily translate into playoff blowouts. Unless Denver's O is out-played and out-coached by the best D's, and the ST's don't show up, all at the same time.

[Cito Pelon]

So you are saying that Plummer is just as good as Elway?? What does Denver's past Superbowl blowouts have to do with last years AFC Championship game??

Plummer had a horrible game and if Elway was in his prime playing for Denver you say there is NO chance Denver wins?? That's absurb.

If Elway played last January, he would have had his best comeback ever, better even than the AFC Title game at Cleveland. Don't forget, Pitt was one of the best D's in the League, and that was the AFC Title game. In the NFL's Final Four, one guy isn't going to win the game all by himself.

[Cito Pelon]

I don't think you can pin the loss on any one player or coach but Coyer is the DC and they never adjusted to quick out for the whole game. How many third and longs did Pittsburg make, it was ridiculous

Myself, I think Coyer took his guys as far as they could go. Come gameday at the final game of the season at Mile High, the players didn't make plays. The plays were there to be made, they didn't get made.

[OrangeShadow]

http://blogs.foxsports.com/TheGreatWhiteDope/NFL_Draft

(who last year were the most talented group in the league, though this point could obviously be debated

LOL

[baja]

Myself, I think Coyer took his guys as far as they could go. Come gameday at the final game of the season at Mile High, the players didn't make plays. The plays were there to be made, they didn't get made.

What I saw was DBs playing off receivers and Pittsburgh taking advantage of the cushion all day long, it was painful after a while if you are a Broncos fan.

Did you see something different?

[Willynowei]

What I saw was DBs playing off receivers and Pittsburgh taking advantage of the cushion all day long, it was painful after a while if you are a Broncos fan.

Did you see something different?

I agree here.

I know from experience what happens when a corner plays 10 yards off a receiver and the receiver runs an out. As long as both guys are doing their jobs and the corner doesn't gamble, the wide receiver is going to catch that ball all day.

But the one thing a lot of people forget is that an out is the hardest route to throw in football. Infact, i don't know if Plummer can throw great outs consistently, not to say he's no good, but the arm strength needed is massive.

Think about it, a football field is what, 50 yards wide?

If you draw a triangle with the hypotenuse being the trajectory of the ball, then the length of that triangle is 25 yards if the QB is at mid field and the receier catches it by the sideline. The height would be about 10 yards for a shorter route, 15 yards for the longer routes Big Ben threw.

So the throw is about 30 yards. Go outside and try to bullet a thirty yard pass with the accuracy and timing it would take to throw an out in the NFL.

Thus, usually a little bit of pressure would help eliminate the effectiveness of that out pattern assuming the QB can't step into the throw fully.

[baja]

I agree here.

I know from experience what happens when a corner plays 10 yards off a receiver and the receiver runs an out. As long as both guys are doing their jobs and the corner doesn't gamble, the wide receiver is going to catch that ball all day.

But the one thing a lot of people forget is that an out is the hardest route to throw in football. Infact, i don't know if Plummer can throw great outs consistently, not to say he's no good, but the arm strength needed is massive.

Think about it, a football field is what, 50 yards wide?

If you draw a triangle with the hypotenuse being the trajectory of the ball, then the length of that triangle is 25 yards if the QB is at mid field and the receier catches it by the sideline. The height would be about 10 yards for a shorter route, 15 yards for the longer routes Big Ben threw.

So the throw is about 30 yards. Go outside and try to bullet a thirty yard pass with the accuracy and timing it would take to throw an out in the NFL.

Thus, usually a little bit of pressure would help eliminate the effectiveness of that out pattern assuming the QB can't step into the throw fully.

That's all well and good but after the opposing team completes about 20 of those tough passes on third down for first downs that you might want to try something else defensively.

[Cito Pelon]

What I saw was DBs playing off receivers and Pittsburgh taking advantage of the cushion all day long, it was painful after a while if you are a Broncos fan.

Did you see something different?

The scheme was designed to let the CB's play back, then charge the supposedly wide open WR. The scheme was to pressure the QB into thinking he had a wide open WR and tossing the ball out there while the CB's were laying back ready to charge the ball and get the INT or force an incompletion, maybe force a fumble. The D was designed to force mistakes and take advantage of them. It was a gambling scheme that required a lot from the players, and the players didn't get it done as they had done in previous games.

I could easily say, "Well, obviously the staff should have adjusted the scheme, since the scheme that had worked well all year wasn't getting the job done." And there's merit to that argument. A lot of merit. So we'll see what this year holds. It was a shame to not adjust when the scheme wasn't working, and it was a shame the players didn't make the plays they were supposed to. So we'll see how the guys respond to a humiliating loss at home in the AFC Title game.

[ncjmirabile]

Pittsburgh used outcut routes effectively the whole game against Denver. Those routes are designed to take advantage of the cushion the CBs were giving them. Denver needed to go to more bump and run coverage.

[DarkHorse30]

Pittsburgh used outcut routes effectively the whole game against Denver. Those routes are designed to take advantage of the cushion the CBs were giving them. Denver needed to go to more bump and run coverage.

Bingo. Coyer doesn't adjust....which is the reason our defense will only be average in the playoffs. Until Coyer displays a talent for adjusting his scheme, Denver will struggle against top teams in the playoffs.

You can blame hurt players, or rookie corners.....but Coyer's D has been throttled 3 times the last 3 years in the playoffs. Who else is there to blame?

[12th man]

Bingo. Coyer doesn't adjust....which is the reason our defense will only be average in the playoffs. Until Coyer displays a talent for adjusting his scheme, Denver will struggle against top teams in the playoffs.

You can blame hurt players, or rookie corners.....but Coyer's D has been throttled 3 times the last 3 years in the playoffs. Who else is there to blame?
Actually, if you think about it, Injuries and rookie corners can be part of the blame for our throttlings. Who did Peyton pick on? roc alexander. who did roethlissburger pick on? Dominique Foxworth. Darrant wasn't completely healthy for the playoffs. A big part of the afc ship game was dropped int's by our players. we dropped like four of them. Also that game, there was no pressure from our line. It's not the scheme. the scheme worked all year untill that game cause we dropped int's and got no pressure. It seemed to work well against the pats.

[baja]

Actually, if you think about it, Injuries and rookie corners can be part of the blame for our throttlings. Who did Peyton pick on? roc alexander. who did roethlissburger pick on? Dominique Foxworth. Darrant wasn't completely healthy for the playoffs. A big part of the afc ship game was dropped int's by our players. we dropped like four of them. Also that game, there was no pressure from our line. It's not the scheme. the scheme worked all year untill that game cause we dropped int's and got no pressure. It seemed to work well against the pats.

What makes Shanny's offense game plans so difficult to defend is because they are innovative with new wrinkles every week. Coyer is just the opposite his defense never seems to change up, it's the same week in week out. The Pitt coaches watched film and figured out a way to beat his scheme. Problem is Coyer does not think on his feet well, he watched his scheme get beat all game long and did nothing.

[12th man]

What makes Shanny's offense game plans so difficult to defend is because they are innovative with new wrinkles every week. Coyer is just the opposite his defense never seems to change up, it's the same week in week out. The Pitt coaches watched film and figured out a way to beat his scheme. Problem is Coyer does not think on his feet well, he watched his scheme get beat all game long and did nothing.
I see your point, but what ever he was doing should have worked. early we were stopping there run, plus the dropped int's. the plays were there. everyone just stunk it up that day. Im not going to call for coyars head just for one game. His stuff worked all season.

[ncjmirabile]

Watching the AFCC Game was like watching week 1 in Miami again.

If an offense is only looking to get 5 to 6 six yards on an outcut route at a time what good does it do to put the secondary 10-15 yards back?

[ncjmirabile]

Lynch even said that he thought after the AFCC Game that the best way to defense Pittsburgh WRs is to squat on their underneath routes and to bump them at the line of scrimmage.

[ncjmirabile]

Actually, if you think about it, Injuries and rookie corners can be part of the blame for our throttlings. Who did Peyton pick on? roc alexander. who did roethlissburger pick on? Dominique Foxworth. Darrant wasn't completely healthy for the playoffs. A big part of the afc ship game was dropped int's by our players. we dropped like four of them. Also that game, there was no pressure from our line. It's not the scheme. the scheme worked all year untill that game cause we dropped int's and got no pressure. It seemed to work well against the pats.

Lynch and Fergy also had problems with covering Miller. If I remember right, I think Champ even bit on a few play fakes by Roth.

D-Will wouldn't have change anything.

[baja]

The old adage dictates you got to put the players in position to make plays and then the players have to make the plays. It appeared from watching the game that the DBs were just not in position to stop those third down quick outs and Pittsburgh just ran them until we stopped them, trouble is we never stopped them. Coyer's fault IMO!

[TheDave]

Folks, we rode the jailbreak blitz to a 13-3 record... I can't fault the old man for sticking with it for one more game. Stuff just didn't go our way that day.

[NOLA Bronco]

Coyers defense was much improved during the year, but did seem to lack in game and scheme adjustments. It is almost like he decided the d was gonna play one way, so the other team would have to adjust.

Sure Jake's turnovers didn't help, but there are always gonna be some, and even the great Elway threw a bad pass every once in a while. But neither Jake or the offense was on the field when Pittsburgh converted 50 straight 3rd and long plays.

[baja]

Folks, we rode the jailbreak blitz to a 13-3 record... I can't fault the old man for sticking with it for one more game. Stuff just didn't go our way that day.

When someone has got your number it is wise to recognize that fact, Coyer didn't

[TheDave]

When someone has got your number it is wise to recognize that fact, Coyer didn't

But we were getting our chances... Champ drops a sure fire pick for a TD, ball was ruled dead on a fumble recovery, and later the ball goes right betweeen Fergys hands in the endzone... the scheme was producing opportunities... we just weren't able to capitalize on them.

[SoCalBronco]

But we were getting our chances... Champ drops a sure fire pick for a TD, ball was ruled dead on a fumble recovery, and later the ball goes right betweeen Fergys hands in the endzone... the scheme was producing opportunities... we just weren't able to capitalize on them.

The Sausage King is dead on here. There were several chances. Champ dropped a possible pick six, that fumble caused by Brown and recovered by Gold, on replay I was absolutely sure they would uphold it and somehow it was reversed. Very few things were breaking our way. And Coyer had forced them into what would normally be low conversion percentage situations. Its not like they get a first down and then throw for another one. We got them to third down..not just third down, but quite often Third and Medium and Third and Long and they kept converting it. There were numerous 3rd and 8s and 3rd and 9s where we were shutdown for two downs and it all went to hell on third down. I dont know how it happened but it did. For the most part the scheme was effective and as you said, it created the oppurtunity for about 4 turnovers, but as between not capitalizing and just going brain dead on third down, it made it look like they were raping us in every aspect which wasnt the case.

[broncosteven]

I would have more faith in Lance if he was younger when coming over from college ranks or had been in the NFL with another team at the DC level for a longer period. Isn't this his 1st stop as Head DC at a late age? I know he was at the college level for a long time I don't know how much NFL experience he has though I am sure he has some. I would prefer that he had worked at the NFL level for 5-10 years before coming to the Broncos.

Sure he knows his D & how he wants to run/gameplane it, but does he know or feel when it is time to adjust at the NFL level? This year is his last straw with me. They either should have the #1 D this year & or win it all or we have a new DC next year that has a lot of recent NFL experience.

He is a great teacher & gets a lot of out the players but I am not sold on his blitz packages ( I hate the fake blitz where they show a blitz then back out of it & I hate when they just run into pile at the line - SEND LYNCH & or DJ FROM THE BLIND SIDE PLEASE) & the lack of adjustments. Too bad Shanny didn't have the luxury to make him a LB coach/assistant HC & work him up the chain or something...

[broncosteven]

But we were getting our chances... Champ drops a sure fire pick for a TD, ball was ruled dead on a fumble recovery, and later the ball goes right betweeen Fergys hands in the endzone... the scheme was producing opportunities... we just weren't able to capitalize on them.


Any scheme where you hope to capitalize on turnovers is Bull**** period. I want my Defense to pound the offense into the ground! Make WR's & TE's afraid to run over the middle of field (not leave it wide open on a zone in biggest game of year) & punish people. Dropping back & hopping to make a pick in your own Endzone is a DANGEROUS GAMBLE that any gambler would not take odds on.

I would have preferred 1 deep TD given up vs Press bump coverage over the crap we had to endure all freaking 1st half & start of 3rd.

In essence his gameplan was to gamble & play for a Pick & or Turnover & we didn't get any. When it was apparent that they were executing he should have scrapped that plan & had a 2nd plan incase the 1st plan sucked ass.

I hope Shanny makes Lance turn in 2 gameplans for each game this year incase the 1st sucks ass like the Pitt gameplan, is that possible for the D to have 2 plans?

[bcbronc]

The Sausage King is dead on here. There were several chances. Champ dropped a possible pick six, that fumble caused by Brown and recovered by Gold, on replay I was absolutely sure they would uphold it and somehow it was reversed. Very few things were breaking our way. And Coyer had forced them into what would normally be low conversion percentage situations. Its not like they get a first down and then throw for another one. We got them to third down..not just third down, but quite often Third and Medium and Third and Long and they kept converting it. There were numerous 3rd and 8s and 3rd and 9s where we were shutdown for two downs and it all went to hell on third down. I dont know how it happened but it did. For the most part the scheme was effective and as you said, it created the oppurtunity for about 4 turnovers, but as between not capitalizing and just going brain dead on third down, it made it look like they were raping us in every aspect which wasnt the case.


but the problem for me with coyer is that after a team has beaten us on something a couple of times, he doesn't make any adjustment. it's great that our scheme was stopping pittsburgh on 1st and 2nd downs, but if they convert every time on 3rd, it doesn't matter. coyer seems to have one plan of attack, and if that doesn't work or gets adjusted to, he's like a ship with a broken mast.

[ncjmirabile]

The CBs weren't getting there fast enough to jump routes or make plays. Sure the yards after catch were low, but Denver basically died a slow death in the AFCC Game. Pittsburgh's outcuts took advantage of the cushion.

Lynch even said they needed to be closer to the WRs and give them bumps at the line to disrupt the timing between Ben and the WRs more.

[watermock]

The CBs weren't getting there fast enough to jump routes or make plays. Sure the yards after catch were low, but Denver basically died a slow death in the AFCC Game. Pittsburgh's outcuts took advantage of the cushion.

Lynch even said they needed to be closer to the WRs and give them bumps at the line to disrupt the timing between Ben and the WRs more.

That is Coyer's biggest fault. No risk no gain. Alot of us screamed bloody murder by not playing bump and run more. This is still a good team, but a flawed team. This is the year I said we make the run, but I might have to lwait.

[broncocalijohn]

Let us not forget we have lost our sack guys two years in a row to free agency. I believe that is why Pryce had a lower sack attack in 2005. Our line stopped the run and did put pressure on the Qb to get 13 wins. We lost to Pitt not just because Coyer didnt re tool his game plan. We have bitched about Mike himself on plays like running Bell near the goal line when we had Dayne (Anderson was hurt). The article had some points that attribute Coyer's faults but doesnt paint the whole picture.

[Taco John]

For the record, I absolutely believe that John Elway would have made a difference in the playoff game against Pittsburgh. I'm not sure how slandering Elway's ability to elevate a team helps Jake's case any, but I definitely think that we had a team capable of winning as it was... given we execute our game plan . Add Elway to that mix... wow.


I think people start to lose the argument when they try to make the case that Elway wouldn't be capable of doing amazing things, simply because Plummer isn't.

Don't get me wrong either. I'm not expecting amazing things from Plummer. I just want to see how our team reacts in a playoff game in which our offense doesn't turn the ball over at crucial times. I think on the whole, our entire team plays much better when our offense controls the ball.

[Mediator12]

Well you know it is the offseason when a blogger named the Great White Dope has a four page thread based on more fiction than Dan Brown's Jesus Stories.

Good Lord people.

[Rascal]

I don't buy the argument about starting a rookie CB led to Coyer being forced to play soft and let them run 8 yard outs all day long. Foxworth and DWill had played all season long and against better WR's then Randle El. And even if they were going to play 8+ yards off it doesn't explain having Champ 8+ yards off. It is possible to play soft on one side and tight on another. When it became obvious they were going to dink and dunk there way down the field the defensive strategy should have changed, and it should have happened before halftime. That is probably Coyer's biggest problem, adapting and changing during the game.

Sure Jake's TO's hurt but it wouldn't have mattered anyway with the way the _efense failed to show up. I thought Jake played valiantly and when you are being pressured that much the entire time and forced to throw 75% of the time TO's are going to happen.

[bendog]

Don't get me wrong (wasn't that a chick song?) cause I like the move for Cutler. It's a gamble, but a good one. I liked the Middlebrokeback move too, and look how that turned out. But in 06 if Den has zero pass rush and has to blitz on every single second and third and long, it opens some possible legit griping about Shanny.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Wow, does anyone else find it shocking that a man with this much defensive knowledge and prophetic ability is not on an NFL coaching staff? Just another armchair Defensive Coordinator, IMO. Does he have valid points? Yes and no. Teams choose schemes and plays according to what they see happening on the other side of the ball. The author still doesn't show that calling anything other than a blitz package for a specific play is NOT the thing to do in the context of that play. Hell, anyone can rant about 'too many blitzes', 'not enough sacks' or 'poor DB scheming' after the games are long played. The defensive (and team) accomplishments speak for themselves.

[bendog]

Well, there's no getting around the fact that Den's defense has sucked in three straight playoff years, and I'm not sure that getting past the Pats the last post-season was really that superlative an effort. The one loss that really bugged me was the one in Balt, when Sharpe got his third ring. The defense didn't play badly, and imo Den should've won the game, but for bad luck and Gus not sacking it up and running the ball when Den had the wind in its face. Coyer wasn't the dcoord then, I don't think. Rhodes was not a good experience. I'm not dumping on Coyer so much as I tend to think we fans vastly overrate the talent Den has on D.

[Lidderer]

Wow, does anyone else find it shocking that a man with this much defensive knowledge and prophetic ability is not on an NFL coaching staff? Just another armchair Defensive Coordinator, IMO.

Does anyone honestly think that getting a coordinator gig is based entirely on one's knowledge of X's&O's?

Hypothetical situation here: but let's say that Columnist X(not GreatWhiteDope, mind you) writes an incisive article that uncovers something significant--like a particularly successful team's propensity to line up in a certain way on 3rd and shorts when they are going to pass, or whatever--and keeps publishing these articles with frequency. Do you really think he'll be hired as a coordinator?

The arguement that states "well how come he's not an nfl coach" is flawed from the ground-up.

Also, cutler sucks.

[Atlas]

If Elway played last January, he would have had his best comeback ever, better even than the AFC Title game at Cleveland. Don't forget, Pitt was one of the best D's in the League, and that was the AFC Title game. In the NFL's Final Four, one guy isn't going to win the game all by himself.

THis whole thing is getting redicules.

Denver lost by 17 points. Jake plummer turned the ball over 4 times. Is it wildly absurb to think Elway could come in and play a mistake free game and Denver wins?? No one played better in AFC Championship games than John Elway.

[Atlas]

Well, there's no getting around the fact that Den's defense has sucked in three straight playoff years, and I'm not sure that getting past the Pats the last post-season was really that superlative an effort. The one loss that really bugged me was the one in Balt, when Sharpe got his third ring. The defense didn't play badly, and imo Den should've won the game, but for bad luck and Gus not sacking it up and running the ball when Den had the wind in its face. Coyer wasn't the dcoord then, I don't think. Rhodes was not a good experience. I'm not dumping on Coyer so much as I tend to think we fans vastly overrate the talent Den has on D.

People seem to forget that the Defense played great against the Pats. Yes, Denver did win a playoff game this year.

[Northman]

It was SOB's fault.

[Atlas]

What I saw was DBs playing off receivers and Pittsburgh taking advantage of the cushion all day long, it was painful after a while if you are a Broncos fan.

Did you see something different?

Bailey dropping that first INT really hurt and Fox was just owned all day. Hell, he was a rookie and Pittsburgh took advantage of that. It'll be better this year!!

[rbackfactory80]

Denvers defense sucked during that game. To be on the positive side they did show flashes last year of becoming a good unit, and improved. The thing that pissed me off most about that game was giving up on the run early. Staying committed to the run was critical and we left it and starting airing it out just like the steelers wanted us to do. We could have run the ball on them too.

[Mediator12]

Does anyone honestly think that getting a coordinator gig is based entirely on one's knowledge of X's&O's?

Hypothetical situation here: but let's say that Columnist X(not GreatWhiteDope, mind you) writes an incisive article that uncovers something significant--like a particularly successful team's propensity to line up in a certain way on 3rd and shorts when they are going to pass, or whatever--and keeps publishing these articles with frequency. Do you really think he'll be hired as a coordinator?

The arguement that states "well how come he's not an nfl coach" is flawed from the ground-up.

Also, cutler sucks.

Actually that is the Job of the defensive assistant (Ryan Slowik in this case) to uncover any tendencies that seem to be exploitable from both sides. NFL teams monitor their tendencies both internally and have an external review service to monitor trends in playcalling.

Any Columnist that actually watches game film twice before he offers an opinion on his preconceived perceptions is worth his weight in Gold. It is the only reason shows like Playbook on the NFL have so much worth compared to internet bloggers who make shaky assertions without ever watching film. This guy made an argument out of emotion and not facts. He took several half truths and distorted the actual events and embellished his argument with over the top innuendo ala Dan Brown's use of actual Catholic groups and fictitious purposes.

Believe it or not, coaches watch more film than watermock spends time on the mane!

[youcandoit1687]

Believe it or not, coaches watch more film than watermock spends time on the mane!


no, no, NO!!!!!! it cant be true!

[Atlas]

Believe it or not, coaches watch more film than watermock spends time on the mane!


Yeah right even coaches have a life.

[Popps]

. I'm not sure how slandering Elway's ability to elevate a team helps Jake's case

So, saying that he needed a D and a running game is slandering him?

Too bad, because it's factual information. He couldn't win a SB until he had a D and Terrell Davis.

He's the best QB in history, and even HE needed help.

[Cito Pelon]

I can see how people can fault everybody from top on down. Think back on all the players and coaches that have been called out since the final game of the season. And with good reason. Nobody stood out, made plays, had a superb game. Nobody. Now we get to find out how pissed off they are after a failure of attitude and execution if that magnitude.

[orange 4 life]

Hopefully by the time Jay Cutler’s taking over the offense Coyer will be long gone, otherwise he might just end up being painted as a villain as well.

Jake doesn't deserve this type of treatment, and the people of Denver don't either. Coyer must go.

overall good statements and valid points, though i of course think the problem was a combination of scheme and lack of ability by the front 4 to get pressure.

regardless, its the last part here that of course has me concerned, and coyer being here is meaningless.

if and when cutler takes over, he will have to win a superbowl within a couple years or he WILL receive the same treatment griese and plummer did.

this town is PATHETIC when it comes to assessing its qb's, and the elway hangover may never end.

plummer has been nothing but good, yet half this board seemingly has an avatar with a picture of a kid that God willing wont see the field for a few years.

whatever. no reason to get the blood boiling.

yes, the defense is the reason we've lost in the playoffs the last 3 years. leave it at that.

[Cito Pelon]

Well, right now I'm thinking Denver will have a good year. Why? I don't know. Really, Elway is so long gone, he's of no relevance at all. He's loooooonnnng gone now. He may be alive and well on this board, he's a god after all, but does the team and staff ever discuss what it would be like to have him back? BBBBBBaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaahahaha ha. That's a good one.

I thought last year was a good year not only because the team finally has a playoff win under their belt, but they found an identity.

[BroncoBuff]

... Coyer must go.
Any article that ends like that ... is one I don't wanna read ...