Verdict in Enron case: Guilty Guilty Guilty

[PatsWin2002]

-- Jurors reach verdict in trial of Enron executives Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling. Verdict to be read at noon ET.

[KipCorrington25]

After seeing the documentary The Smartest Guys in the Room I pray these a-holes get the book... but they are rich now so I'm sure they'll walk.

[alkemical]

yeah, i have a thread called american ju$tice - about this....

[PatsWin2002]

yeah, i have a thread called american ju$tice - about this....

Sorry, I looked quicky and didn't see anything. I got the CNN email about it and figured it was unfolding now so.....why not give it its own thread.

[watermock]

The money they confiscated was from Citco, those Communsts to the South!

If the bills don't fit, you must acquit!

[alkemical]

Sorry, I looked quicky and didn't see anything. I got the CNN email about it and figured it was unfolding now so.....why not give it its own thread.


no it's cool - mine's buried on the bored & rhetoric thread... ;)

[Phantom]

After seeing the documentary The Smartest Guys in the Room I pray these a-holes get the book... but they are rich now so I'm sure they'll walk.

I agree, the greed and callousness was eye opening. Very interesting documentary. I hope they get major time.

[PatsWin2002]

Ken Lay:

Guilty on all 35 charges!

[OrangeShadow]

Skilling was found guilty on many counts

[PatsWin2002]

Jeffrey Skilling:

Not guilty on all insider trading charges.

Waiting on the rest..........trying not to give bad info isnce no cameras are allowed....this is all transferred by word of mouth.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Lay looking at 165 years max.

[KipCorrington25]

How much will they really get is the question.

[PatsWin2002]

How much will they really get is the question.

Some expert said Lay "is toast" and "he better get used to wearing stripes" since he's 63 now.

Even if each item was drastically reduced he ain't getting out alive.

[watermock]

They should have to be vegans for 5 years since they have lived fat off the hog for 20.
they should pull their mansions first. How these pricks keep their mansions is beyond me. Then you throw them in with Lex Luthor.

[bendog]

They should go to federal pound you in the ass prison, that's for sure. But they won't. I wonder where bernie ebbers is doing his life sentence?

[Swedish Extrovert]

I mean when this many people lose everything because you didn't want to divulge information that woul expidite the end of your company.... so you can continue driving your Ferrari to your mansion.... I think it's probabally well deserved.

[Tom Foolery]

Some expert said Lay "is toast" and "he better get used to wearing stripes" since he's 63 now.

Even if each item was drastically reduced he ain't getting out alive.
10% of the time on white collar crimes is the general rule. Not always followed, but most times.

100 years = 10 years prison time.

Thats just for parole hearings though. Parole Boards are required to examine if the inmate is still a "threat" to society, and likely Lay and Skilling if they live to their first parole hearing, will not be considered a threat to society. There is the human factor of parole boards however and the victim character letters to the parole board, but there is a possibility of both of them getting out of their sentences at their first parole hearing because of the fact that neither will pose a "threat" to society at large again.

Personally, I think jail is far to lenient of a sentence for them. A good trip to a deserted disease infested island for the rest of their lives without anything but the clothes on their back is a more just punishment in my opinion.

[NOLA Bronco]

As someone who became unemployed because of their shenanigans, I hope they enjoy their time in Federal pound me in the ass prison.

[Crushaholic]

The time will be most likely served at a minimum security prison. In my part of the world, we have a guy named David Wittig who was convicted of defrauding his former utility company. The jury sent him to a minimum security prison and I expect these guys will get the same fate...

[NOLA Bronco]

The time will be most likely served at a minimum security prison. In my part of the world, we have a guy named David Wittig who was convicted of defrauding his former utility company. The jury sent him to a minimum security prison and I expect these guys will get the same fate...

Actually that could be rougher for them. Minimum security prisons allow a great deal more interraction between inmates than most max. security ones....

[alkemical]

The time will be most likely served at a minimum security prison. In my part of the world, we have a guy named David Wittig who was convicted of defrauding his former utility company. The jury sent him to a minimum security prison and I expect these guys will get the same fate...

Or they become venture capitalists like Michael Milken and next thing ya know $50mil if investment money is gone, but all the VP's & CEO's are driving new bimmers & mercedi (that is the plural of mercedes, right?)

[Paladin]

Gosh. And these were the type of fellows who helped developed the National Energy Policy. And wouldn't they have been a great company to put your Medicare dollars to work in?

I hope they get 20%. I would hope the judge would consider the sheer numbers of people who were burned by those scumbags, and the enormous amount of dollars involved. When it's over, I hope the wives have to live in tents pitched near the railroad tracks.

[Taco John]

I hope they find the raquetball courts where these guys are going most unsatisfactory.

[Paladin]

And no tea service.

[alkemical]

and the only sex they get is with their wives, no hookers!

[KillerBronco#76]

The thing i dont get is that these guys were already rich. Do they just have no morals at all? I dont see how you can **** that many people in the ass knowingly.

[Kaylore]

Good.

[GonzoLays]

They should go to federal pound you in the ass prison, that's for sure. But they won't. I wonder where bernie ebbers is doing his life sentence?

I worked as a financial analyst in international finance under Ebbers at the WorldCom. I used to (unknowingly) fib numbers all the time. Not because I wanted to, but because CFO Scott Sullivan would instruct my boss to. For example, if a call routed to Liberia cost us .21 and there were 42 million minutes used on that line, I would change the cost to .18 to show more profit. I would probably do this for atleast thirty countries every month. When I was there, the company was doing about a BILLION a month in international long distance calls. So changing three cents here and there times millions of minutes really increased the bottom line. Ebbers and Sullivan took a great deal of interest in our work because at the time we reported about 1/3 of the company's total sales.

[-Slap-]

10% of the time on white collar crimes is the general rule. Not always followed, but most times.

100 years = 10 years prison time.
There are no early paroles from federal prison.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

There are no early paroles from federal prison.

but plenty of ass pounding....

[Tom Foolery]

There are no early paroles from federal prison.
Who said anything about early paroles?

Parole means getting out before your sentence is up. Non-violent crimes generally have a parole hearing at about 10% (depending on the judge) of the sentence served. Martha Stewart is a fine example of serving her time in jail and the rest of her sentence on parole.

Early parole means getting a chance to get parolled before you are elligible and rarely happens. Unless one turns state's evidence there are very few other chances to get parolled before you are elligible.

[61Vikefan]

-- Jurors reach verdict in trial of Enron executives Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling. Verdict to be read at noon ET.

I worked for Enron from 1984-1988. I met Ken Lay at a company function and shook his hand-seemed like a nice enough guy at the time.

I lost $80,000 in stock to those bastards-it was my fault at I should have diversified but I suffered with the same delusion all the long time employees did-we thought Enron would last forever.

[footstepsfrom#27]

They should let them out on the weekends to engage in gainfull employment...something demeaning where they can be on public disply like running the 20 items or less express lane at WallMart so everyone can come by and get a good laugh at their expense. :rofl:

[GonzoLays]

I worked for Enron from 1984-1988. I met Ken Lay at a company function and shook his hand-seemed like a nice enough guy at the time.

I lost $80,000 in stock to those bastards-it was my fault at I should have diversified but I suffered with the same delusion all the long time employees did-we thought Enron would last forever.




How many stock options did you have?

[Tredici]

I worked for Enron from 1984-1988. I met Ken Lay at a company function and shook his hand-seemed like a nice enough guy at the time.

I lost $80,000 in stock to those bastards-it was my fault at I should have diversified but I suffered with the same delusion all the long time employees did-we thought Enron would last forever.

You worked for the Crooked E at a time when diversifying was at least an option. The last few years before the collapse, employees could only have Enron stock in their 401k which is why everyone lost everything. Except the guys being fitted for stripes. While smiling at employees and encouraging them to purchase more corporate stock, they were dumping it. Assholes.

[oldschoolorange]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Foolery
10% of the time on white collar crimes is the general rule. Not always followed, but most times.

Originally Posted by Slap
100 years = 10 years prison time.
There are no early paroles from federal prison.

They will serve 85% of the sentence they receive at sentencing. Federal Judges have very little lattitude and MUST sentence within the sentencing guidelines. See http://www.ussc.gov/1998guid/tabcon98.htm as an example.

The dollar amounts in Enron are huge and will net large sentences. Federal prisoners go to a prison/security level that is appropriate for the crime and the amount of the sentence in years. Example: 15 year Sentence, white collar (no violence), will go to a FCI medium security prison (FCI= Federal Correctional Institution). While longer sentences will go to a USP Maximum Federal Penitentiary (USP=United States Penitentiary)

Only when a sentence falls below the ten year period are they allowed to go to a minimum security prison "camp".

[-Slap-]

You're mistakenly attributing this quote to me:

100 years = 10 years prison time.

This is what I said:

There are no early paroles from federal prison.

I don't believe there's a chance in hell they'll be assigned to a maximum security facility.

[Clockwork Orange]

I don't believe there's a chance in hell they'll be assigned to a maximum security facility.

That's too bad. A stint in Oz would be a great message to send to the rest of the swine who might pull a similar stunt.

[oldschoolorange]

Sorry about the mis-post. I was attempting to agree with what you said.

If their sentences go over 35 years they will go to USP's

[watermock]

I was a real ace at investing. I put some money in Worldcom, Global Crossing and Palm handhelds along with a couple Internet Protocol enterprises. Luckily it was only 2 grand. I lost 30 grand on oil when we invaded Iraq in 90. Buy high, sell low is my motto it seems. I was worried about having enough fuel and bought deisel fuel last summer and the price promptly went down 50 cents. Went up even higher later, but how embarrasing.

[61Vikefan]

How many stock options did you have?

I can't remember the number of shares offhand-but my last good statement (before the collapse) showed a balance of about $120,000. Not bad for only 4 years of employment for them and only 6% of my salary (they matched dollar for dollar employee contributions up to 6%).

I've always said I lost about 80 grand because I thought that was closer to the true value-obviously the 120 grand time was short lived and for the benefit of Skilling and Lay to sell off for the highest price.

The stock was a great investment over the years for what I put into it even with the big loss. I finished a good portion of my house by selling Enron stock-even with paying the penalty it was better than borrowing and at least I got something out of Enron before they collapsed.

I started out working for Northern Natural Gas when they were part of Internorth-they were a very solid company at the time. They had over 1 billion dollars cash in their pension fund in 1984 and owned a substancial stake in the Chase Manhatten Bank in NY simply due to the balance of cash they had in it.

The merger with Houston Natural Gas occurred and the first thing they did was to sell the interests in Chase Manhatten for cash and they borrowed 10% of the pension fund to fund the merger and replaced it with company stock.

That should have been the warning sign. They took a great company of great people who did a great service for this country, and they completely fleeced it right down to nothing and ruined countless lives. Unbelievable that can happen in this country. Thankfully for me, I got out in 1988 and went with a different company but I feel terrible for all the people who lost everything-including my brother who lost over 1 mil.

[watermock]

I feel terrible for all the people who lost everything-including my brother who lost over 1 mil.

When they start selling stock options as a 401K it's a red flag. I considered doing an IPO with stock options but it just so dishonest. I was just going to start up some paper company.

They give you stock options just to prop up the stock price and employees get taken to the cleaners as they clear their portfolio. I don't know if it's been made law that any stock sales of a company that major players are involved in are now required to be made public.

Enron played everyone, including California taxpayers, and the Gov was a collosal moron to boot. See the impeachment. Enron bought energy at high prices and it didn't exist because it didn't rain in the NW so they didn't have excess power. So they had to buy electricity at rediculous rates. Of course, they didn't explain that because the big boys were cooking the books and selling off as much, as fast as they could without creating panic, all the time showing record profits.

They also made phony spin off companies to hide their losses. They should just cut their balls off and let them back into society and revoke any possibility of a securities license. Let them pick up their paper trail with pokers IMO.

[61Vikefan]

I work for a big utility now and after all the Enron stuff came out, they changed their stock programs. We now have an independant company who administers all our stock and 401K and no official from the company can be involved. I think that in the end, Enron will end up making everyone's retirement safer.