New Orleans seen as top target for '06 hurricanes

[SoCalBronco]

New Orleans seen top target for '06 hurricanes
Wed May 24, 2006 3:21pm ET
Email This Article | Print This Article | Reprints [-] Text [+] By Barbara Liston

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - New Orleans, still down and out from last year's assault by Hurricane Katrina, is the U.S. city most likely to be struck by hurricane force winds during the 2006 storm season, a researcher said on Wednesday.

The forecast gives New Orleans a nearly 30 percent chance of being hit by a hurricane and a one in 10 chance the storm will be a Category 3 or stronger, meaning sustained winds of at least 111 miles per hour (178 km per hour), said Chuck Watson of Kinetic Analysis Corp., Savannah, Georgia a risk assessment firm.

"Given the state of the infrastructure down there and the levees, gosh, that's just not good news. But that's what the climate signals look like," Watson said.


Watson, who has partnered with University of Central Florida statistics professor Mark Johnson, also predicted that oil production in the Gulf of Mexico will be disrupted for a minimum of a week at a cost of 7-8 million barrels of oil.

Up to 25 percent of U.S. oil production in the Gulf was shut down last year and 20 percent is still out.

Watson gave a one in 10 chance that oil rigs will sustain enough damage to reduce production by 278 million barrels this year, further escalating prices for gasoline.

The forecasters, who have worked with the oil and gas industry and with state insurance regulators, base their forecast in part on the paths of storms over the past 155 years and expected global climate conditions this year.

Watson and Johnson said a weak La Nina weather condition and warmer-than-normal Gulf of Mexico water temperatures were contributing factors. U.S. government weather experts say the La Nina phenomenon in place earlier this year has dissipated and should not be a factor during the hurricane season.

On Tuesday, the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said the 2006 hurricane season was expected to produce 13 to 16 named storms, including four to six "major" hurricanes of Category 3 strength or higher. No leading forecasters came close to predicting what happened in 2005, when 28 tropical storms spawned a record 15 hurricanes.

The 2006 forecast for News Orleans was worse than Watson's prediction for the city last year, he said. But for now, he considers the 2005 season an aberration rather than a trend or a definitive sign of effects from global warming.

"If it happens again this year or next year, then we're in a different climate world than we were in the last 100 years or so," Watson said.

Of 28 coastal cities evaluated under the forecast model, New Orleans ranked top with a 29.3 percent chance of experiencing hurricane-force winds in the storm season that begins officially on June 1.


Other top candidates include Mobile, Alabama, with a 22 percent chance of being buffeted by hurricane-force winds, and the Florida cities of Key West and Pensacola, which both have a 20 percent chance.

West Palm Beach, Florida, which suffered severe damage during last year's Hurricane Wilma, came in just after Key West and Pensacola with a 19 percent chance of being struck yet again by hurricane-force winds.

Watson and Johnson have published a number of research papers on storm and wind damage modeling.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-05-24T192149Z_01_N24313604_RTRUKOC_0_US-WEATHER-HURRICANES-FORECAST.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage2

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Not good news. Although if that UFO nutjob guy Eric Julien is right, the entire east coast and Gulf Coast, among other regions will be totally wiped out tomorrow, so future hurricanes may not matter.

New Orleans really needs to catch a break. I dont think they could survive from another CAT 3 or higher. The levees havent even been repaired yet.

[Hogan11]

Wow, it takes a lot of sack to make a prediction like that ::)

They predicted FLA to get hit too....wow, just jaw dropping. I'm gonna email them for a personalized reading and maybe some lottery numbers whilst I'm at it.

[ludo21]

I hope NO gets a pass this year, or just a small hit if any.

[Sassy]

Wow, it takes a lot of sack to make a prediction like that ::)

They predicted FLA to get hit too....wow, just jaw dropping. I'm gonna email them for a personalized reading and maybe some lottery numbers whilst I'm at it.
East coast...hmmm...you can come camp out at my house!:P

[Dr. Broncenstein]

The Bush administration had better pay attention and prevent another hurricane from hitting the chocolate city.... they have plenty of warning

[Hogan11]

Funny NC wasn't mentioned.....guess I should've booked for Hatteras this August afterall.

[ludo21]

The Bush administration had better pay attention and prevent another hurricane from hitting the chocolate city.... they have plenty of warning


Prevent? How do you prevent a Hurrican from hitting?? :rofl:

You must be talking about evacuating, right?

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Prevent? How do you prevent a Hurrican from hitting?? :rofl:

You must be talking about evacuating, right?

No man... If the asshole republican president cared about black people he would have prevented katrina from ever hitting the shore...

[worm]

Wow, it takes a lot of sack to make a prediction like that ::)

They predicted FLA to get hit too....wow, just jaw dropping. I'm gonna email them for a personalized reading and maybe some lottery numbers whilst I'm at it.

Let me know if they predict a Broncos Super Bowl next year.

THAT would be useful.

[ludo21]

No man... If the a-hole republican president cared about black people he would have prevented katrina from ever hitting the shore...


;) gotcha.

Bush is racist.

[Ratboy]

I won't be in Florida this hurricane season, but guess where i'll be? San Antonio till mid July!

After that, my Tech School is at Keesler (Biloxi, Mississippi). They got hammered by katrina.

[NOLA Bronco]

;) gotcha.

Bush is racist.

No he is not racist. Just incompetent. Just like the Gov. The city was about as well prepared as one could be, and the Mayor at least had some good things in place to help get people out. We all saw how hard it was to try an evacuate Houston, right? NOLA had some experience trying to get people out before and learned from those mistakes. The conditions at the superdome were terrible, but that was thousands of people who would have otherwise drowned or would have been trapped on their roofs. The mayor says some stupid things, but he did a pretty good job before the storm, and has some good ideas for the recovery.

The levees (built by the feds) burst and the feds sat on their rears. Thats the part Bush could have helped with. People sat for days to get help, which in 21st century America is absolutely appalling. The government has more man power and money than any other entity, yet couldn't figure out how to get people some water? Of course, it didn't help that half our national guard is somewhere else, helping other people who don't actually pay taxes. In general, Washington has turned their back on this region for a long time. While $200m bridges to nowhere get built in Alaska, Louisiana doesnt get the funding it needs to restore wetlands that are crucial to slowing down hurricanes. LA also doesnt get its fair share of off shore oil money, which would help repair the coastline.

What a nice first post, eh?

Go Broncos.

[ludo21]

Welcome!!!

Great first post.

So the town was flooded, yet they couldnt find water??? ;D (j/k)

[NOLA Bronco]

Welcome!!!

Great first post.

So the town was flooded, yet they couldnt find water??? ;D (j/k)

You can still see the water marks left on the buildings. Lord only knows what was in the water that would leave those marks.

[watermock]

While it might of been the Army Corps of Engineers to work on the levees, the state stood on it's hands as well. FEMA screwed up, but damn, New Orleans was nothing less than an impotent government for months. They could of mobilized busses to evacuate and didn't. I'm not going back into this blame game, but it was Bush that actually got the ball rolling with huge aid from helecopters to cargo planes. Putting a city below sea level and also below a huge lake is idiotic in a hurricane zone. That is a historic town in a bad place. Hell, the cemetaries are above ground, they were bobbing around all over the place. They should be dredging the river and throwing rock on the levees like crazy as I speak. The real problem is that silt builds up all the time because the river has been straightened for commerce. Also, NOLA sinks a little every day. You couldn't find a worse place to build a city, even Washington or NY. At least they are above sea level and can find bedrock.

Where we farm in SE Arkansas because the business model works, the mud is 300 feet deep. That is why we have trac-tors that can navigate in those conditions. (belted tractors). I'm just happy I left the Pensacola/Gulf Breeze area before that thing hit.

[DBruleU]

No man... If the a-hole republican president cared about black people he would have prevented katrina from ever hitting the shore...

Kanye West...is that you....?

::)

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Kanye West...is that you....?

::)

My sarcasm, laid on in triple layers and covered with fried sarcasm that hard to detect?

[DBruleU]

My sarcasm, laid on in triple layers and covered with fried sarcasm that hard to detect?

Yes, when I have never seen any of your posts consisting of George Bush, and it's over the internet.

[NOLA Bronco]

While it might of been the Army Corps of Engineers to work on the levees, the state stood on it's hands as well. FEMA screwed up, but damn, New Orleans was nothing less than an impotent government for months. They could of mobilized busses to evacuate and didn't. I'm not going back into this blame game, but it was Bush that actually got the ball rolling with huge aid from helecopters to cargo planes. Putting a city below sea level and also below a huge lake is idiotic in a hurricane zone. That is a historic town in a bad place. Hell, the cemetaries are above ground, they were bobbing around all over the place. They should be dredging the river and throwing rock on the levees like crazy as I speak. The real problem is that silt builds up all the time because the river has been straightened for commerce. Also, NOLA sinks a little every day. You couldn't find a worse place to build a city, even Washington or NY. At least they are above sea level and can find bedrock.

Where we farm in SE Arkansas because the business model works, the mud is 300 feet deep. That is why we have trac-tors that can navigate in those conditions. (belted tractors). I'm just happy I left the Pensacola/Gulf Breeze area before that thing hit.


The original footprint of the city is above sea level. The rest is landfill that should probably return to marshy areas. As we saw in New England though, it can flood anywhere. And it was/is a great spot for a city because of the river and gulf access. The Govt in the city prior to the storm was in pretty good shape actually. They did have some trouble getting buses rounded up here for two reasons. One, like Houston, the bus drivers weren't sticking around, and two, the buses flooded. Was that a mistake, sure, but no one in the city expected these levees and flood walls to fail. The trust had been built up for a generation. There was a large portion of people who chose to stay, and others who felt they had no choice because of their pets, property, or elderly relatives. Most of the issues discussed here aren't about how the evacuation failed, because it didn't (over a million people in the area did leave). Its about what to do with those that can't leave. Everyone who lived here then thought we would be back in a couple days at most. And we would have, if the levees had held.

Bush has the military at his disposal. There should have been helicopters in the sky on Monday or Tuesday, rather than Saturday. He shouldn't have waited to be asked for help, he is th CIC and should know when to take control when needed. But then again, he did appoint good old Brownie to do it.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Yes, when I have never seen any of your posts consisting of George Bush, and it's over the internet.

Maybe the part where I said Bush should prevent hurricanes could have given you a hint.

[DBruleU]

Maybe the part where I said Bush should prevent hurricanes could have given you a hint.

I don't know about that....with some of the stupidity thrown around here, I don't know what to think.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I don't know....with some of my stupidity thrown around here, I don't know... what to think?

Fixed it for you

[fontaine]

Maybe not this year but from now one the Gulf is going to be a much rougher place with more and more hurricanes twisting away. The CO2 levels in the upper atmosphere have been increasing steadly for decades, and oceans are getting warmer all the time. Ofcourse we're going to have more hurricanes. The question is what are people going to do now to stop this crap from getting worse and worse in the next 10-20 years? Or is it much easier simply to lay the blame at the current administration for the problems of today that have their roots going back decades?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The Bush administration had better pay attention and prevent another hurricane from hitting the chocolate city.... they have plenty of warning

Too late to prevent them this year but their "pollute the world for corporate gain" policy doesn't help for future years.

Of course, with the extremely quick reaction time (http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline) Bush had last year there shouldn't be much of a problem.

[defenseman]

I'm not touching New Orleans and hurricanes anymore. Mother nature may be have more in store for it, however, given we can't control mother nature, well it's out of our hands. Good luck to NO. Living in a fishbowl well below sea level in a hurricane prone area? Well, it doesn't make sense to me anyway. Hope they have real good flood insurance. I personally am not looking forward to insurance rates across the country going up anymore than they have to..dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm not touching New Orleans and hurricanes anymore. Mother nature may be have more in store for it, however, given we can't control mother nature, well it's out of our hands. Good luck to NO. Living in a fishbowl well below sea level in a hurricane prone area? Well, it doesn't make sense to me anyway. Hope they have real good flood insurance. I personally am not looking forward to insurance rates across the country going up anymore than they have to..dman
Where have they gone up? I live on the coast and mine are the same.

[defenseman]

Heres the deal. Insurance companies are still paying out on claims based on the damage. FLOOD insurance , is a very specific type of insurance. A majority of folks down there did not have some form of it. That said, due to the severity of the storm and the damage incurred numerous insurance companies have felt compelled to pay out many of the claims in full even though no flood insurance was held by the owner. This extra payment of claims will eventually cause insurance to go up slightly across the country, there is no other way for the insurance companies to absorb the cost. Simple as that. NORMALLY, what happens in one state doesn't affect another. In this case though, I see the rates going up across the board. No other way to recover it....dman

*the insurance companies are pretty smart. You pay premiums on what "MAY" happen in the future in your area of the country. Sometimes well into the future based on models, risk,economy etc...etc...etc... Why?, that way, they can also cover the losses for the most part and still come out ahead. In NO, they are covering losses NOT covered by a policy in some cases, rates will go up however slight, but they'll have to.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Heres the deal. Insurance companies are still paying out on claims based on the damage. FLOOD insurance , is a very specific type of insurance. A majority of folks down there did not have some form of it. That said, due to the severity of the storm and the damage incurred numerous insurance companies have felt compelled to pay out many of the claims in full even though no flood insurance was held by the owner. This extra payment of claims will eventually cause insurance to go up slightly across the country, there is no other way for the insurance companies to absorb the cost. Simple as that. NORMALLY, what happens in one state doesn't affect another. In this case though, I see the rates going up across the board. No other way to recover it....dman

*the insurance companies are pretty smart. You pay premiums on what "MAY" happen in the future in your area of the country. Sometimes well into the future based on models, risk,economy etc...etc...etc... Why?, that way, they can also cover the losses for the most part and still come out ahead. In NO, they are covering losses NOT covered by a policy in some cases, rates will go up however slight, but they'll have to.
Are you in the insurance industry? Everything I've seen on CNBC and I'm reading says the premiums were already inflated enough to cover last year's losses. My insurance company told me they have no plans of any rate hikes.

[Orange_Beard]

More DOOM & GLOOM.

This is total BS.

[defenseman]

They were inflated yes. I guess what I am trying to say is , eventually, they'll raise the rates to cover "their" losses due to covering people who DID NOT carry any sort of flood insurance. It will be subtle, maybe not a significant amount, BUT it will go up based on payouts to the NO hurricane victims who didn't have the correct insurance. Don't think anyone will make a stink about it or advertise it, it'll just go up...dman

*The insurance industry is very, very, slick. They know how to ensure they turn a profit and sell you at the same time. The rates are ALWAYS inflated , leaning to future disasters. You are paying now for what "may" happen in the near future.

[defenseman]

More DOOM & GLOOM.

This is total BS.

Not so. The rates across the country will have to go up slightly to cover some of the cost. Simple as that. May not be much, but it will. I'll attempt to locate some good solid information for you. Seriously, once the math is done, we will have to cover some of the folks who did not carry the full insurance coverage for the area...dman

[watermock]

http://www.tvacres.com/images/lizard_geicogecko_small.jpg

"How dare you make such insinuations!"

[defenseman]

http://www.tvacres.com/images/lizard_geicogecko_small.jpg

"How dare you make such insinuations!"

I trust I'm seeing a bit of sarcasm...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

They were inflated yes. I guess what I am trying to say is , eventually, they'll raise the rates to cover "their" losses due to covering people who DID NOT carry any sort of flood insurance. It will be subtle, maybe not a significant amount, BUT it will go up based on payouts to the NO hurricane victims who didn't have the correct insurance. Don't think anyone will make a stink about it or advertise it, it'll just go up...dman

*The insurance industry is very, very, slick. They know how to ensure they turn a profit and sell you at the same time. The rates are ALWAYS inflated , leaning to future disasters. You are paying now for what "may" happen in the near future.
I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. You do know that flood insurance is backed by the federal government and that billions have been authorized by Congress for payments to Katrina victims?

You also are aware that the federal government sets the rates, not insurance companies, correct?

[Broncoman13]

No man... If the a-hole republican president cared about black people he would have prevented katrina from ever hitting the shore...


OMG, you're killing me today Doc! Every single post I've read of yours today has brought a smile! Keep up the good work.

Cocoa City. The hits keep coming!

[defenseman]

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. You do know that flood insurance is backed by the federal government and that billions have been authorized by Congress for payments to Katrina victims?

You also are aware that the federal government sets the rates, not insurance companies, correct?

The insurance companies ARE paying out to victims who DID NOT hold flood insurance also. I've got to dig up the article, however, one official from the insurance company flat out stated that they were going to pay out, even if not covered to because they felt compelled to. That said, the govt. pay covered was basically for those that were covered with insurance is my understanding. Not victims who failed to secure flood insurance prior to the disaster. We have a bit of an issue here, that said, I'll attempt to dig up the data. I do not think though, I am mis interpreting the information though..dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The insurance companies ARE paying out to victims who DID NOT hold flood insurance also. I've got to dig up the article, however, one official from the insurance company flat out stated that they were going to pay out, even if not covered to because they felt compelled to. That said, the govt. pay covered was basically for those that were covered with insurance is my understanding. Not victims who failed to secure flood insurance prior to the disaster. We have a bit of an issue here, that said, I'll attempt to dig up the data. I do not think though, I am mis interpreting the information though..dman

Like I said insurance companies CAN'T raise flood insurance premiums. And the insurance companies, not the federal government pays out the benefits. That's why you shop for a company with a good record on timely claim payouts.

And I also believe that property owners whose property was damaged in the two storms were allowed to retroactively join NFIP and to receive payments from it.

[Hotrod]

http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/jobfair.asp

"This past weekend FEMA and the City of Austin, along with the Texas Workforce Commission setup a job training/hiring/interview/job fair for all the Katrina FEMA evacuees in the Austin area to be held at the ACC campus on Webberville Road in East Austin. Several of the evacuees said they had no transportation to get from the apartment complexes, private homes, hotels, motels, and inns where they are living.

So the city of Austin/FEMA/TWC set up transportation for each of them to ensure they would be able to partake of the benefit of job searching. The transportation consisted of nine buses and vans, to run from four locations in Round Rock, and five locations in Austin, in continuing shuttles back and forth to the campus to ensure that the hundreds of people looking for jobs would be transported in comfort. The vehicles were brought to their residences; drivers knocked on the doors; and every effort was made.

At the end of the day, the nine vans and buses transported a total of one person. Not one person per bus — one person total."

[NOLA Bronco]

Heres the deal. Insurance companies are still paying out on claims based on the damage. FLOOD insurance , is a very specific type of insurance. A majority of folks down there did not have some form of it. That said, due to the severity of the storm and the damage incurred numerous insurance companies have felt compelled to pay out many of the claims in full even though no flood insurance was held by the owner. This extra payment of claims will eventually cause insurance to go up slightly across the country, there is no other way for the insurance companies to absorb the cost. Simple as that. NORMALLY, what happens in one state doesn't affect another. In this case though, I see the rates going up across the board. No other way to recover it....dman

*the insurance companies are pretty smart. You pay premiums on what "MAY" happen in the future in your area of the country. Sometimes well into the future based on models, risk,economy etc...etc...etc... Why?, that way, they can also cover the losses for the most part and still come out ahead. In NO, they are covering losses NOT covered by a policy in some cases, rates will go up however slight, but they'll have to.


OK, you have no idea what you are talking about.

First, flood insurance is a federal program. You had to buy it through the government, and it covered you for up to at most $250,000. You could buy supplemental insurance through another insurance company, but few people did, because insurance companies here kept that fact hidden. In many cases, people were told they didn't need flood insurance because of outdated flood maps produced by the government. Starting 10 years ago or so, mortgage companies started requiring home owners in the flood zones to get it when buying a house. The houses owned prior to that only had the flood maps to rely on, so most took a look and said they didnt need it based on what the government was saying.

Second, people who had no insurance will not be receiving any insurance funds from private coimpanies, so that won't affect rates. They can get some money from the federal flood program, which will be run dry just paying out claims for people who had it. This shouldn't change any rates for people in other parts of the country for flood coverage.

Third, rates for insurance will go up in other parts of the country because of this, but it is justified by the insurance companies to recover their losses. Here is the deal - the port of New Orleans and the oil pipelines that run through this area are vital to the rest of the country. There has to be some viable city here, and just for historic reasons. So rates going up in other places slightly seems justified, if only because this is necessary place of business for this country. We pay more here for all sorts of insurance (my car ins is twice what my brothers is in Denver), so we accept the risk of being here. This place needs to be here because it benefits the country, so the country should help. Think of it as part of the price of commerce.

Oh, and insurance companies are putting the screws to everyone, most people I know have an attorney because of the BS adjustments being done. Even if there is a big hole in the roof where water could come in (and thus be covered under homeowners policy) too many adjusters are saying the primary source of damage is from the water coming up (which is only covered and capped by the flood insurance policy).

The thing is, hurricanes are the one disaster that can be planned for. But as always, you have to make some mistakes to learn what is right. The city and state have dealing with this for years, but to much faith was put in the levees, which if designed and built properly would have held. I don't know what the motivation was, but the federal government did not step help this place in the hour of need. So they better make it up to us and give the money we need and frankly deserve to resotre faith and rebuild.

Only parts of New Orleans are below sea level. To say we shouldn't rebuild based on the elevation is crap. People all over the country live in high risk areas (California!). No one ever says we shouldn't rebuild in Oklahoma or Kansas after they get a tornado.

Meanwhile, a great number of people still can't get keys to FEMA trailers that have been sitting in their driveway.

defenseman - I, and many others would like to see something from an insurance company that says they feel compelled to pay out to people they didn't cover. Insurance companies simply dont do that.

[defenseman]

Like I said insurance companies CAN'T raise flood insurance premiums. And the insurance companies, not the federal government pays out the benefits. That's why you shop for a company with a good record on timely claim payouts.

And I also believe that property owners whose property was damaged in the two storms were allowed to retroactively join NFIP and to receive payments from it.

I guess my point is, given the severity of the damage and cost, yes the insurance companies CAN'T raise premiums for flood insurance, because they don't control it. Agreed. But , the can raise the cost of insurance overall based on potential losses and realized losses from this event, again, not much of a hike, but they can still raise it to make up for their losses in payouts...dman

[NOLA Bronco]

http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/jobfair.asp

"This past weekend FEMA and the City of Austin, along with the Texas Workforce Commission setup a job training/hiring/interview/job fair for all the Katrina FEMA evacuees in the Austin area to be held at the ACC campus on Webberville Road in East Austin. Several of the evacuees said they had no transportation to get from the apartment complexes, private homes, hotels, motels, and inns where they are living.

So the city of Austin/FEMA/TWC set up transportation for each of them to ensure they would be able to partake of the benefit of job searching. The transportation consisted of nine buses and vans, to run from four locations in Round Rock, and five locations in Austin, in continuing shuttles back and forth to the campus to ensure that the hundreds of people looking for jobs would be transported in comfort. The vehicles were brought to their residences; drivers knocked on the doors; and every effort was made.

At the end of the day, the nine vans and buses transported a total of one person. Not one person per bus — one person total."

Whats your point? People from NOLA are lazy? Some are, just like any other city.

[defenseman]

OK, you have no idea what you are talking about.

First, flood insurance is a federal program. You had to buy it through the government, and it covered you for up to at most $250,000. You could buy supplemental insurance through another insurance company, but few people did, because insurance companies here kept that fact hidden. In many cases, people were told they didn't need flood insurance because of outdated flood maps produced by the government. Starting 10 years ago or so, mortgage companies started requiring home owners in the flood zones to get it when buying a house. The houses owned prior to that only had the flood maps to rely on, so most took a look and said they didnt need it based on what the government was saying.

Second, people who had no insurance will not be receiving any insurance funds from private coimpanies, so that won't affect rates. They can get some money from the federal flood program, which will be run dry just paying out claims for people who had it. This shouldn't change any rates for people in other parts of the country for flood coverage.

Third, rates for insurance will go up in other parts of the country because of this, but it is justified by the insurance companies to recover their losses. Here is the deal - the port of New Orleans and the oil pipelines that run through this area are vital to the rest of the country. There has to be some viable city here, and just for historic reasons. So rates going up in other places slightly seems justified, if only because this is necessary place of business for this country. We pay more here for all sorts of insurance (my car ins is twice what my brothers is in Denver), so we accept the risk of being here. This place needs to be here because it benefits the country, so the country should help. Think of it as part of the price of commerce.

Oh, and insurance companies are putting the screws to everyone, most people I know have an attorney because of the BS adjustments being done. Even if there is a big hole in the roof where water could come in (and thus be covered under homeowners policy) too many adjusters are saying the primary source of damage is from the water coming up (which is only covered and capped by the flood insurance policy).

The thing is, hurricanes are the one disaster that can be planned for. But as always, you have to make some mistakes to learn what is right. The city and state have dealing with this for years, but to much faith was put in the levees, which if designed and built properly would have held. I don't know what the motivation was, but the federal government did not step help this place in the hour of need. So they better make it up to us and give the money we need and frankly deserve to resotre faith and rebuild.

Only parts of New Orleans are below sea level. To say we shouldn't rebuild based on the elevation is crap. People all over the country live in high risk areas (California!). No one ever says we shouldn't rebuild in Oklahoma or Kansas after they get a tornado.

Meanwhile, a great number of people still can't get keys to FEMA trailers that have been sitting in their driveway.

defenseman - I, and many others would like to see something from an insurance company that says they feel compelled to pay out to people they didn't cover. Insurance companies simply dont do that.

I'll see it I can locate the article..dman

[Hotrod]

Whats your point? People from NOLA are lazy? Some are, just like any other city.

My point is they can get the hell out of the free living thats been handed to them at my expense. They can either got off their fat *** and get a job and pay their own way or live on the streets.

[NOLA Bronco]

My point is they can get the hell out of the free living thats been handed to them at my expense. They can either got off their fat *** and get a job and pay their own way or live on the streets.

I agree with you. Many people I know have been more than gracious and have used the opportunities to better themselves. Laziness is not something unique to people from New Orleans. I hope this wouldn't skew your view away from the people who are here working.

[Hotrod]

I agree with you. Many people I know have been more than gracious and have used the opportunities to better themselves. Laziness is not something unique to people from New Orleans. I hope this wouldn't skew your view away from the people who are here working.

Not at all Im fully sure that many of the people have gotten on with their lives and are working. Im also sure many of them are not making enough in wages to afford to survive. Those people should continue to be helped until their situation gets better. My problem is the ones who are still playing the oh look at what happened to poor little me. Yes it happened and it is horrible no doubt but at some point they have to pull up their pants and move on.

[bendog]

Prevent? How do you prevent a Hurrican from hitting?? :rofl:

You must be talking about evacuating, right?
They could use the anti-wind machine Al Gore built.

[Hotrod]

Just to make sure Im clear its not about N.O. Im sure that any American city that was wiped out would have the same lazy worthless "give me give me give me" types.

Those that lost everything and are back to work and rebuilding their lives are true Americans those that are refusing to even look for work should be deported to Mexico along with the rest of the invading army of the south.

[NOLA Bronco]

Not at all Im fully sure that many of the people have gotten on with their lives and are working. Im also sure many of them are not making enough in wages to afford to survive. Those people should continue to be helped until their situation gets better. My problem is the ones who are still playing the oh look at what happened to poor little me. Yes it happened and it is horrible no doubt but at some point they have to pull up their pants and move on.


Yup. I am a strong believer in what goes around, comes around. I don't wish harm on anyone, but people who take advantage of the goodwill of others will usually end up miserable.

[sirhcyennek81]

I love it when people make it sound like hurricanes are intentionally targeting places. Its a storm, a superlow pressure system, it goes where there is no resistance to it, not like it can go anywhere it likes. F'n A...

:Broncos:

[Hotrod]

I love it when people make it sound like hurricanes are intentionally targeting places. Its a storm, a superlow pressure system, it goes where there is no resistance to it, not like it can go anywhere it likes. F'n A...

:Broncos:

Are you saying you dont believe in the Pat Robinson theory ;D

[bendog]

OK, you have no idea what you are talking about.

First, flood insurance is a federal program. You had to buy it through the government, and it covered you for up to at most $250,000. You could buy supplemental insurance through another insurance company, but few people did, because insurance companies here kept that fact hidden. In many cases, people were told they didn't need flood insurance because of outdated flood maps produced by the government. Starting 10 years ago or so, mortgage companies started requiring home owners in the flood zones to get it when buying a house. The houses owned prior to that only had the flood maps to rely on, so most took a look and said they didnt need it based on what the government was saying.

Second, people who had no insurance will not be receiving any insurance funds from private coimpanies, so that won't affect rates. They can get some money from the federal flood program, which will be run dry just paying out claims for people who had it. This shouldn't change any rates for people in other parts of the country for flood coverage.

Third, rates for insurance will go up in other parts of the country because of this, but it is justified by the insurance companies to recover their losses. Here is the deal - the port of New Orleans and the oil pipelines that run through this area are vital to the rest of the country. There has to be some viable city here, and just for historic reasons. So rates going up in other places slightly seems justified, if only because this is necessary place of business for this country. We pay more here for all sorts of insurance (my car ins is twice what my brothers is in Denver), so we accept the risk of being here. This place needs to be here because it benefits the country, so the country should help. Think of it as part of the price of commerce.

Oh, and insurance companies are putting the screws to everyone, most people I know have an attorney because of the BS adjustments being done. Even if there is a big hole in the roof where water could come in (and thus be covered under homeowners policy) too many adjusters are saying the primary source of damage is from the water coming up (which is only covered and capped by the flood insurance policy).

The thing is, hurricanes are the one disaster that can be planned for. But as always, you have to make some mistakes to learn what is right. The city and state have dealing with this for years, but to much faith was put in the levees, which if designed and built properly would have held. I don't know what the motivation was, but the federal government did not step help this place in the hour of need. So they better make it up to us and give the money we need and frankly deserve to resotre faith and rebuild.

Only parts of New Orleans are below sea level. To say we shouldn't rebuild based on the elevation is crap. People all over the country live in high risk areas (California!). No one ever says we shouldn't rebuild in Oklahoma or Kansas after they get a tornado.

Meanwhile, a great number of people still can't get keys to FEMA trailers that have been sitting in their driveway.

defenseman - I, and many others would like to see something from an insurance company that says they feel compelled to pay out to people they didn't cover. Insurance companies simply dont do that.

DMan is a reasonable guy, but substance-wise, from what I have read and heard on the damage to Mississippi, your post is accurate.

I'd be nice to be as high on potus's radar as Iraq though.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060525/ap_on_go_co/iraq_katrina_spending_2

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060524/NEWS0110/605240368/1002/NEWS01
President Bush had vowed to veto the bill, which also would pay for the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, if it costs more than that.

"I'm optimistic that we'll pass something that the president will approve," said Mississippi Sen. Thad Cochran, chairman of the Appropriations Committee.

To meet the $94.5 billion cap and still have money for some Senate priorities, negotiators are considering shifting some of the bill's $71 billion in war costs to hurricane-related purposes.

"There's no portion of the bill that's more important than any other," Cochran, a Republican, said.

[NOLA Bronco]

I love it when people make it sound like hurricanes are intentionally targeting places. Its a storm, a superlow pressure system, it goes where there is no resistance to it, not like it can go anywhere it likes. F'n A...

:Broncos:


Who said that, besides wacko Pat Robertson?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Who said that, besides wacko Pat Robertson?
I posted a whole list of em :)

[Tom Foolery]

No he is not racist. Just incompetent. Just like the Gov. The city was about as well prepared as one could be, and the Mayor at least had some good things in place to help get people out. We all saw how hard it was to try an evacuate Houston, right? NOLA had some experience trying to get people out before and learned from those mistakes. The conditions at the superdome were terrible, but that was thousands of people who would have otherwise drowned or would have been trapped on their roofs. The mayor says some stupid things, but he did a pretty good job before the storm, and has some good ideas for the recovery.

You mean Nagin had some good things going like all those school busses unused while thousands still remained? Yeah, he is a real competent guy.

The levees (built by the feds) burst and the feds sat on their rears. Thats the part Bush could have helped with. People sat for days to get help, which in 21st century America is absolutely appalling. The government has more man power and money than any other entity, yet couldn't figure out how to get people some water? Of course, it didn't help that half our national guard is somewhere else, helping other people who don't actually pay taxes. In general, Washington has turned their back on this region for a long time. While $200m bridges to nowhere get built in Alaska, Louisiana doesnt get the funding it needs to restore wetlands that are crucial to slowing down hurricanes. LA also doesnt get its fair share of off shore oil money, which would help repair the coastline.

The feds paid for the levee's, and New Orleans had more than enough money from tourism to bolster those levee's and what did Nagin do? Gave the money to businesses on Bourbon street. Well done.

What a nice first post, eh?

Go Broncos.
No.

[bendog]

You mean Nagin had some good things going like all those school busses unused while thousands still remained? Yeah, he is a real competent guy.

The feds paid for the levee's, and New Orleans had more than enough money from tourism to bolster those levee's and what did Nagin do? Gave the money to businesses on Bourbon street. Well done.

No.
You are clueless. There was incopetence all around, but your school bus crap is faux news disinfo. Of course nagin said children were being raped and killed at the convention center, and nothing like that occurred - not where there was an organized shelter.

[NOLA Bronco]

You mean Nagin had some good things going like all those school busses unused while thousands still remained? Yeah, he is a real competent guy.

There was conta flow on the highways, which after many attempts went much smoother this time. Evacuation wan't an issue, as more than 90% of the people left. No other American city would have been able to do that. We have had practice. The buses themselves weren't the issue at first. There were no drivers. There was no place to take people. People stayed behind to take care of pets, because shelters wouldn't allow them. The superdome was opened as a shelter for people who supposedly had no place else to go. And no offense, but you don't live here and don't know whats going on.

The feds paid for the levee's, and New Orleans had more than enough money from tourism to bolster those levee's and what did Nagin do? Gave the money to businesses on Bourbon street. Well done..

Well that is 100% false, and again, you have no idea what you are talking about. LA asked for federal funding for the wetlands and better levee protection for years, and it got labeled as Pork in DC. The money went to businesses on Bourbon Street? You have no idea how a city is run do you. Infrastructure maintainence (like fixing roads and levees) that affects a whole region rarely comes from tax revenues. Case in point - back in 95 they finally changed the drinking age, because the feds were attempting to withhold federal money for roads.

[NOLA Bronco]

You are clueless. There was incopetence all around, but your school bus crap is faux news disinfo. Of course nagin said children were being raped and killed at the convention center, and nothing like that occurred - not where there was an organized shelter.

The convention center wasn't an organized shelter.

And what you say about organized shelters - not necessarily true.

Here is Charmaine Neville's story.

http://www.counterpunch.org/neville09072005.html

[delany]

There was conta flow on the highways, which after many attempts went much smoother this time. Evacuation wan't an issue, as more than 90% of the people left. No other American city would have been able to do that. We have had practice.

Of course the contra flow went smoother...given all the issues and the traffic nightmare pre-Ivan.

In fact, last hurricane season was all about the improvements to the contra flow in NOLA...and little else.

Fundamentaly the entire strategy was flawed...

It only took 30+ years to forget the lessons of Betsy....I wonder how long it will take to forget the lessons learned with Kat.

[bendog]

The convention center wasn't an organized shelter.

And what you say about organized shelters - not necessarily true.

Here is Charmaine Neville's story.

http://www.counterpunch.org/neville09072005.html
Interesting. I heard her sing at a party prolly 10 years ago. However, her story isn't that children were being raped at a shelter. I relize the convention center was not initially a shelter, but in terms of organization, it came to be one. And, I've no doubt there were many rapes murders and other **** in the lower econ class neighborhoods.

Bottom line, there was a population of prolly 25% NOLA proper (not Metarie or Kenner) that simply has no ability to find means for their own survival. Trying to judge them through our eyes is futile. They live an entirely different existence. And ever city has some kind of a population like that.

There was incompetence on all levels. But it is very interesting that 20% of white voters found nagin to be preferrable to Moon Landreau's son. I gotta defer to the judgment of the locals on that. They have to have a logical reason.

[NOLA Bronco]

Of course the contra flow went smoother...given all the issues and the traffic nightmare pre-Ivan.

In fact, last hurricane season was all about the improvements to the contra flow in NOLA...and little else.

Fundamentaly the entire strategy was flawed...

It only took 30+ years to forget the lessons of Betsy....I wonder how long it will take to forget the lessons learned with Kat.

My point was, its not a simple operation. No one was prepared for the levee's breaking. Now we know better. You only learn what you left out when it actually happens. I don't think things could have been much differently before the storm.

[NOLA Bronco]

Interesting. I heard her sing at a party prolly 10 years ago. However, her story isn't that children were being raped at a shelter. I relize the convention center was not initially a shelter, but in terms of organization, it came to be one. And, I've no doubt there were many rapes murders and other **** in the lower econ class neighborhoods.

Bottom line, there was a population of prolly 25% NOLA proper (not Metarie or Kenner) that simply has no ability to find means for their own survival. Trying to judge them through our eyes is futile. They live an entirely different existence. And ever city has some kind of a population like that.

There was incompetence on all levels. But it is very interesting that 20% of white voters found nagin to be preferrable to Moon Landreau's son. I gotta defer to the judgment of the locals on that. They have to have a logical reason.

No she didn't talk about children getting raped. I saw a more detailed interview where she got more into the story about how she was raped while the guy held a knife to her.

The election results were determined by a few things. Nagin was going a pretty good job before the storm. Most people realized after a while that the things that happened would have happened no matter who was in charge. There wasn't a big difference between the two candidates, so people looked at Mitch as "old boy politics". People were also scared that a leadership change right now, right before Hurricane season, would be a detriment. I will say this, I didn't support either, but I recognize that Nagin didn't deserve this fate. He deserves the chance to make it better. He isn't doing this to move up the political chain, and I know for a fact his family didn't want him to.

I agree, there was incompetence on all levels to a certain extent. But for me, the light shines darkest on the people who actually had the ability to do something in the aftermath and didn't.

[bendog]

Yeah, from what I've seen nagin's "incompetence" wasn't so much his job perfromace but his basic inclination to shoot from the hip with the media, which is why when the disaster was happening post hurricane in NOLA he got the most coverage. Whoever decided not to have the entire police force called up, with a couple of days rations and clean clothes BEFORE the storm hit ... that's beyond me.

We could trade FEMA incomptence stories.

In Mississippi Haley Barbour was scary on top of stuff. Never thought the old drunk corrupt bastard had it in him. Still got old people in tents. Those folks will never get enough to rebuild, anywhere. There are still old people dying just from the shock/grief. But the vast maj of Mississippi deaths were during the storm, not after, like in Nola. Right after the storm, the people sort of came out of wherever they'd sheltered and banded together. And the Gov had the natl guard on the scene the first day, literally with orders to shoot looters on sight. Tended to deter looting. Of course, LA Nat Guard didn't have the lift capacity to get into NOLA that fast.

[worm]

There are still old people dying just from the shock/grief.

I don't think people, as a whole, realize that Katrina's body count didn't stop when the floods receded.

I have been to, or heard of, more funerals in the last six months then I ever thought possible.

Stress is a powerful force.

[NOLA Bronco]

I don't think people, as a whole, realize that Katrina's body count didn't stop when the floods receded.

I have been to, or heard of, more funerals in the last six months then I ever thought possible.

Stress is a powerful force.

Well said.

[defenseman]

this is just a start, hopefully this helps a bit...dmanhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/07/AR2005110701461.html

Sorry guys, I'm not real good at this insert link stuff...dman

[bendog]

this is just a start, hopefully this helps a bit...dmanhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/07/AR2005110701461.html

Sorry guys, I'm not real good at this insert link stuff...dman
Well, I can get you links if you want them, but I think we all agree that rates will increase; however, I think there's confusion as to the different types of policies.

1. Flood. Your homeowners policy don't cover flood. As NOLA said the federal program will only cover up to 250K. FHA mortagaes require it in for houses in flood zones. NOLA said there are private supplemental policies. I don't doubt him, but I didn't know that. I know for a fact that morgage companies told people on the Miss Gulf Coast that they didn't need it, because at 20 feet above sea level they were safe. That's not bad faith so much as nobody ever expected a hurricane that filled the entire gulf, and produced wave over FIFTY feet and a storm surge over THIRTY. That's a tusami. As NOLA said, the federal program is deeply overextended because the feds have kept rates unreasonably low to get people to buy in to have some protection. There's a member of this forum with personal experience of the pay off, and the inadequacy of it when you're trying to rebuild from literally a concrete slab. There are people in Miss, as I type, who live in tents at night, and go back to their slab during the day.

2. Homeowners. This covers rain and wind. the insurance companies are refusing to pay on damage that they know was caused first by the wind and rain, and then the storm surge came through and took the rest, or even partly flooded homes. These folks are really screwed cause they lived 7-10 BLOCKS in. And in the two biggest Miss cities -biloxi and gulfport - that's like football fields from the water. There's, or there was, a beach, a breakwater, a four lane road with median, and then residential commericial propery. You're sitting in 10 blocks from the first street, not getting flood wasn't unreasonable.

In Miss, they're talking 200-300% increases for people in the wind plan. One of the judges I work for had wind damage 90 miles in. I had damage to an out building in Isidore, and I'm 180 miles in. The insurance commissioner is saying he wants to spread the increase to the northern part of the state to keep insurance affordable.

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060525/OPINION01/605250330&SearchID

[defenseman]

The post article lends itself to the belief that the insurance companies do in fact hike the rates for the damages of the hurricanes and such and guise it differently when presented to the state personnel. Interesting....dman

[sirhcyennek81]

Are you saying you dont believe in the Pat Robinson theory ;D


No. Neither does he, if he believes in Christ the way he says he does.


:Broncos:

[sirhcyennek81]

Who said that, besides wacko Pat Robertson?


Read a headline after a hurricane. "Ethel targets, smashes Houston", for example, it makes it sound that a hurricane named ethel has a thing for the destruction of Houston. Its silly. Humanizing nature. Like when sailors say the sea is angry...its ****ing water. What does it have to be angry about?

:Broncos:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

A decent president would find a way to divert all of these hurricanes through KC and Oakland. ;D

[defenseman]

A decent president would find a way to divert all of these hurricanes through KC and Oakland. ;D

the broncos and the mane would love that ..LOL ..dman

[NOLA Bronco]

Well, I can get you links if you want them, but I think we all agree that rates will increase; however, I think there's confusion as to the different types of policies.

1. Flood. Your homeowners policy don't cover flood. As NOLA said the federal program will only cover up to 250K. FHA mortagaes require it in for houses in flood zones. NOLA said there are private supplemental policies. I don't doubt him, but I didn't know that. I know for a fact that morgage companies told people on the Miss Gulf Coast that they didn't need it, because at 20 feet above sea level they were safe. That's not bad faith so much as nobody ever expected a hurricane that filled the entire gulf, and produced wave over FIFTY feet and a storm surge over THIRTY. That's a tusami. As NOLA said, the federal program is deeply overextended because the feds have kept rates unreasonably low to get people to buy in to have some protection. There's a member of this forum with personal experience of the pay off, and the inadequacy of it when you're trying to rebuild from literally a concrete slab. There are people in Miss, as I type, who live in tents at night, and go back to their slab during the day.

2. Homeowners. This covers rain and wind. the insurance companies are refusing to pay on damage that they know was caused first by the wind and rain, and then the storm surge came through and took the rest, or even partly flooded homes. These folks are really screwed cause they lived 7-10 BLOCKS in. And in the two biggest Miss cities -biloxi and gulfport - that's like football fields from the water. There's, or there was, a beach, a breakwater, a four lane road with median, and then residential commericial propery. You're sitting in 10 blocks from the first street, not getting flood wasn't unreasonable.

In Miss, they're talking 200-300% increases for people in the wind plan. One of the judges I work for had wind damage 90 miles in. I had damage to an out building in Isidore, and I'm 180 miles in. The insurance commissioner is saying he wants to spread the increase to the northern part of the state to keep insurance affordable.

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060525/OPINION01/605250330&SearchID


Exactly. I don't think NOLA or the MS Gulf coast is getting the national attention it deserves.

That article didn't mention that in LA, there was another way to get insurance. It was called the LA citizens fair plan, but there is nothing fair about it. They could actualy raise their rates without state approval. And they have - nearly 50%.