Lelie update...per Clayton

[WABronco]

Mile-high price tag: Why have the Denver Broncos been so slow to move wide receiver Ashley Lelie in a trade? The price. The Broncos want a first-rounder for Lelie or a running back. The teams that are interested in Lelie don't have the type of running backs that interest the Broncos. No one is willing to give up a first-round choice for Lelie.

Hmmm...

There's no way that they can be serious with that 1st round pick demand, but the RB thing is intriguing.

TJ Duckett?

[listopencil]

First rounder? I've heard that draft pick trade value declines by one round when pushed forward a year. That is, this year's second rounder is worth next year's first rounder.

[RhymesayersDU]

hahahahaha @ anybody giving us a first round pick for Ash.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Trade his bitch ass to Atlanta and get Duckett. Then we can have a back that will run people over and can run. The every down back i have wanted since TD left

[Kaylore]

hahahahaha @ anybody giving us a first round pick for Ash.
It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.

[WABronco]

Trade his b**** ass to Atlanta and get Duckett. Then we can have a back that will run people over and can run. The every down back i have wanted since TD left
Duckett's not exactly an everydown back...or at least he hasn't shown it. Injuries, injuries, and poor development.

[watermock]

i'd trade him for Barbaro at this point.

[broncocalijohn]

It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.

Very much so. Has anyone got an update on Al Davis mental capability lately? Just wondering. What would we want from his team. LaMont Jordon? Ill pass.

[RhymesayersDU]

It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.
hahahah, nice Isiah crack back, rep!

[Clockwork Orange]

Makes you wonder what type of RB the Broncos are looking for.

[SoCalBronco]

If it is indeed true, it would seem reasonable to infer that Shanahan does not really believe that Lelie would sit out any games.

[WABronco]

Makes you wonder what type of RB the Broncos are looking for.
Yea, there's really nothing of starting quality out there IMO...nothing I can think of at least.

[BroncoFanCam]

Hmmm...

There's no way that they can be serious with that 1st round pick demand, but the RB thing is intriguing.

TJ Duckett?

Hahahaha!!!!

Prepare to sit-the bench this year Ash...

Nobody's going to give a 1st for your butt.

[fontaine]

Duckett is even more of a p&ssy and bust than Lelie.

No thanks.

Trade him to Chicago where they need a 2nd WR with MuMo aging. They already drafted a RB last year year - Benson? - and thomas jones has developed quietly as one of the better backs in the NFC without the benefit of an OL or passing game. Jones, I think, wants out of Chicago and I think he would be a great fit here.

Otherwise wait till one of the small fishes like Bennett, Suggs etc gets cut.

In worst case scenario we could always get the whizzinator here.

[Atlas]

Ashley will show up to camp with a Shanny promise that he will try to trade him, if Lelie is in camp his trade value will be much higher. I bet if he shows up to camp Shanny could possibly get a 2nd for him.

People are really over reacting with their hatred for Lelie. The only thing he has missed has been "voluntary" workouts. If he misses the second week of training camp then people can get pissed. I'm really not worried about it because Lelie has no power in this situation. He has to come to camp it's the only logical thing he can do. Right now he is posturing but Shanny knows he has him by the shorthairs and Ashley knows it too.

[Clockwork Orange]

In worst case scenario we could always get the whizzinator here.

He just signed to play in Canada.

[Kaylore]

Ashley will show up to camp with a Shanny promise that he will try to trade him, if Lelie is in camp his trade value will be much higher. I bet if he shows up to camp Shanny could possibly get a 2nd for him.

People are really over reacting with their hatred for Lelie. The only thing he has missed has been "voluntary" workouts. If he misses the second week of training camp then people can get pissed. I'm really not worried about it because Lelie has no power in this situation. He has to come to camp it's the only logical thing he can do. Right now he is posturing but Shanny knows he has him by the shorthairs and Ashley knows it too.
I actually don't have a problem with someone holding out for more money if they out-perform their contract. Holding out to be the number one receiver?!?! They interviewed some players from around the league on the radio and everyone of them said they'd never even heard of that.

[BroncoFanCam]

People are really over reacting with their hatred for Lelie. The only thing he has missed has been "voluntary" workouts.

It isn't the workouts that has everyone all worked up.

It is his bitching and moaning about being handed a position on the team he hasn't earned.

He should do his talking on the practice field, instead of leaking garbage to the media through his friends, about how unhappy he is.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

First rounder? I've heard that draft pick trade value declines by one round when pushed forward a year. That is, this year's second rounder is worth next year's first rounder.

You don't devalue 1st round picks because of where it could end up, Top 10, 5, or even 1st overall. You do devalue later picks. It'd be nice if a future 2nd ended up as the 33rd overall, but there are still 32 picks that come before it.

[Atlas]

I actually don't have a problem with someone holding out for more money if they out-perform their contract. Holding out to be the number one receiver?!?! They interviewed some players from around the league on the radio and everyone of them said they'd never even heard of that.

I agree with that. I still don't really understand the premise of his holdout, If he wants to be #1 he should do it on the field, but that doesn't take away the fact that he has no power and he'll be in camp with his tail between his legs.

[Kaylore]

I agree with that. I still don't really understand the premise of his holdout, If he wants to be #1 he should do it on the field, but that doesn't take away the fact that he has no power and he'll be in camp with his tail between his legs. Some have suggested here that he's right and there is no way he'll be above the third receiver. Javon is still rehabing and doesn't know the playbook and Rod is 36. If Lelie out plays both of them, and he could - especially early in the season, there is no reason the Broncos wouldn't put the superior guy out on the field.

Shanahan will bench a high draft pick vet for a rookie undrafted player if he is playing better. Lelie not wanting to even try makes him look like a quitter, and I suspect that has a lot to do with why everyone has a problem with him.

[Atlas]

Some have suggested here that he's right and there is no way he'll be above the third receiver. Javon is still rehabing and doesn't know the playbook and Rod is 36. If Lelie out plays both of them, and he could - especially early in the season, there is no reason the Broncos wouldn't put the superior guy out on the field.

Shanahan will bench a high draft pick vet for a rookie undrafted player if he is playing better. Lelie not wanting to even try makes him look like a quitter, and I suspect that has a lot to do with why everyone has a problem with him.

Yep and there is no reason why Denver won't offer Lelie a long term contract at the end of the season if he comes in and does a good job. Like I said earlier I think there is a 40% chance that Lelie will not only play for Denver this year but he'll resign with Denver at the end of the year.

[Cosmo]

Here is a thought: 1st though, I do understand that Lelie hasn't been happy since learning about our interest in Owens. However, he did work out with JW in Arizona, is it possible that Shanny told JW what he thought of Lelie or give him some insight into the future of Lelie to the team, like, "Dont worry, after Rod retires, the #1 job is yours, Lelie will never be more than a #2 or 3 anyways, so dont worry about him". Lelie hears the info, is enraged as he is, but of course doesn't quote the exact words in fear of getting his friend in trouble. I mean, it does explain why Lelie is being like this since its quite obvious that he's in a no win situation.

[baja]

It isn't the workouts that has everyone all worked up.

It is his b****ing and moaning about being handed a position on the team he hasn't earned.

He should do his talking on the practice field, instead of leaking garbage to the media through his friends, about how unhappy he is.

It's not so much that he wants to be a #1 on this team, he knows he is not a good fit for Shanny's system and he wants to be traded to a tram that will use his talents better. Also he knows as long as Plummer is QB he will never reach his full potental because plummer has a dificult time hitting him deep.

[UKBronco]

If we're looking to trade, then it's best to always fall back on the reliable partner we often use:

Redskins!

Lelie for Portis

Get'r done! ;)

[broncohaven]

Here is a thought: 1st though, I do understand that Lelie hasn't been happy since learning about our interest in Owens. However, he did work out with JW in Arizona, is it possible that Shanny told JW what he thought of Lelie or give him some insight into the future of Lelie to the team, like, "Dont worry, after Rod retires, the #1 job is yours, Lelie will never be more than a #2 or 3 anyways, so dont worry about him". Lelie hears the info, is enraged as he is, but of course doesn't quote the exact words in fear of getting his friend in trouble. I mean, it does explain why Lelie is being like this since its quite obvious that he's in a no win situation.
Nice theory, but Lelie's panties were in a bunch as soon as the Broncos mentioned an interest in Terrell Owens, and long before Walker made a visit to Denver. It's clear that Lelie doesn't feel he can beat out elite receviers for the #1 spot, but he also wants to be the #1 guy. In the NFL you just can't have it both ways.

[TotallyScrewed]

You don't devalue 1st round picks because of where it could end up, Top 10, 5, or even 1st overall. You do devalue later picks. It'd be nice if a future 2nd ended up as the 33rd overall, but there are still 32 picks that come before it.


But there is value in getting your player now versus waiting until next year.

[DarkHorse30]

Ashley will show up to camp with a Shanny promise that he will try to trade him, if Lelie is in camp his trade value will be much higher. I bet if he shows up to camp Shanny could possibly get a 2nd for him.

People are really over reacting with their hatred for Lelie. The only thing he has missed has been "voluntary" workouts. If he misses the second week of training camp then people can get pissed. I'm really not worried about it because Lelie has no power in this situation. He has to come to camp it's the only logical thing he can do. Right now he is posturing but Shanny knows he has him by the shorthairs and Ashley knows it too.

Bingo. I don't really get the fan-hissies right now. Lelie has developed into a better WR than any "hopeful" we have on the bench. Pushing him out is not the way to build a championship team. Every championship team has their occasional malcontent. Shanahan's job is to bring Lelie back to the table. Period.

[TotallyScrewed]

Some have suggested here that he's right and there is no way he'll be above the third receiver. Javon is still rehabing and doesn't know the playbook and Rod is 36. If Lelie out plays both of them, and he could - especially early in the season, there is no reason the Broncos wouldn't put the superior guy out on the field.

Shanahan will bench a high draft pick vet for a rookie undrafted player if he is playing better. Lelie not wanting to even try makes him look like a quitter, and I suspect that has a lot to do with why everyone has a problem with him.


To a point, but we've also seen Shanny play guys that were unfit (TD) or past their prime based on their previous success (McCaffrey, Beurlein). I'm just saying, it's not a given. I can see where Rod will have to diminish greatly before he's dropped as the number 1.

[Archie]

Kind of Ironic for Lelie. The Broncos are holding out for the value that they would receive from a #1 receiver and no one is willing to pay. Maybe it will send a clear message to Ashley and get him to mend his ways. Doubtful, but maybe....

[watermock]

Bingo. I don't really get the fan-hissies right now. Lelie has developed into a better WR than any "hopeful" we have on the bench. Pushing him out is not the way to build a championship team. Every championship team has their occasional malcontent. Shanahan's job is to bring Lelie back to the table. Period.

WTF? Noone is pushing him out, he's pushing himself out. He's been given permission to make a trade and the water is cold. Shanahan hasn't done anything to "push him away from the table". In reality, this was his year to actually become the #1 if he didn't go coward and whine like a 2 year old.

I have no clue where he thinks he will go and be the #1. He's off his rocker and will be in camp. Trust me. I have had a vision. Unfortuanately, he will be beaten out by Watts and Brandon Marshall.

[Bronco X]

I doubt they are serious about wanting a 1st round pick. They are probably asking high in hopes that someone will come down to the price they are looking for, a 2nd round pick or something.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Hmmm...

There's no way that they can be serious with that 1st round pick demand, but the RB thing is intriguing.

TJ Duckett?

Fred Taylor

[BroncoFiend]

It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.

There is, his name is Dan Snyder. Unfortunatley, they are all stocked up on overpaid WRs.

[bendog]

Fred Taylor
GD it! I just tweaked my gammy right hammy reading that!

[KipCorrington25]

i'd trade him for Barbaro at this point.

I'd trade him for Bavaro at this point.

[watermock]

Originally Posted by Kaylore
It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.

There is, right down I-70. His name is Carl. He's hanging out with Lennie.

[DarkHorse30]

WTF? Noone is pushing him out, he's pushing himself out. He's been given permission to make a trade and the water is cold. Shanahan hasn't done anything to "push him away from the table". In reality, this was his year to actually become the #1 if he didn't go coward and whine like a 2 year old.

I have no clue where he thinks he will go and be the #1. He's off his rocker and will be in camp. Trust me. I have had a vision. Unfortuanately, he will be beaten out by Watts and Brandon Marshall.

Name ONE WR that Shanahan has drafted and developed into a legit #2............ Lelie is as close as it gets, Mock.

Running Lelie off the reservation because your boxers are bunched up about him making any noise in his contract year is about as stupid as what Green Bay did to Walker. Notice that ALL of the players back what Lelie is doing. They may not LIKE it....but they are supporting him. Short-sighted fans who forget that Shanahan has trouble developing WRs should reconsider their lack of vision on this issue.

BTW, just my opinion, but Marshall and Watts have zero chance of cracking the top 3.....if Lelie stayed. If he goes...it might be 1 in 100. Like those odds? Denver fans forget that they couldn't get a #3 to stick when Eddie and Rod were the starters. What exactly has changed? The offense is difficult to learn and has busted more than a few "hopefuls" back to the pine.

[Ballhawk]

I like that Shanny is sticking to a 1st round pick. 1) It sends a message to Lelie that the team values him and believes he is talented enough to warrent a 1st rounder. Since this seems to be an ego thing with Ash it will help in getting him back into camp 2) It shows the rest of the league that Shanny is not desperate to part ways and if a team really needs a vet WR , they are not going to pick up Ash on the cheap(say around June 1st cuts).

There is no way that we will get a first rounder for Lelie, but this is a nice move to get the best value for him. Shanny will bluff with the best of them, take RD to Clev last year. Shanny waffles on the trade or a minor injury and gets Meyers thrown in the deal. Everyone knew RD was not going to be the starter, but Shanny still squeezed as much value out as possible.

[watermock]

Name ONE WR that Shanahan has drafted and developed into a legit #2............ Lelie is as close as it gets, Mock.

Running Lelie off the reservation because your boxers are bunched up about him making any noise in his contract year is aboOriginally Posted by Kaylore
It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.ut as stupid as what Green Bay did to Walker. Notice that ALL of the players back what Lelie is doing. They may not LIKE it....but they are supporting him. Short-sighted fans who forget that Shanahan has trouble developing WRs should reconsider their lack of vision on this issue.

BTW, just my opinion, but Marshall and Watts have zero chance of cracking the top 3.....if Lelie stayed. If he goes...it might be 1 in 100. Like those odds? Denver fans forget that they couldn't get a #3 to stick when Eddie and Rod were the starters. What exactly has changed? The offense is difficult to learn and has busted more than a few "hopefuls" back to the pine.

What are you talking about? Noone "ran him off" whatsoever. When was Dove Valley a "Reservation"?

Notice that ALL of the players back what Lelie is doing.

Name just one player that is backing Lelie...just one. Your off your rocker. Everyone has been trying to knock some sense into him, including June Jones.

Marshall and Watts have zero chance of cracking the top 3.....

Tell that to Shanahan. He just might have a different view.

This is 2006, not 1996. IMO, Lelie is scared he might not even be the #3 reciever. Look at his competition. A 36 year old and a guy coming off an ACL and he's running scared. You don't have a clue. Everyone says he's making a mortal mistake, so don't tell me he's "being run off the reservation". It just isn't true.

[TotallyScrewed]

Both Eddie and Rod were cast-offs, of sorts. Rod went undrafted. Eddie was on his third team. Shanny (and company) did a fine job of developing them and Shannon.

Yes, they've not drafted first-round talent so well. But it doesn't matter HOW they find the diamonds, just find them. If Marshall is a steal, then great. It doesn't matter that they and 31 other teams didn't draft him until the fourth round (see Bailey's comments, see Terrell Davis).

Give some help with understanding how a complex offense has busted Watts, a year or two as a "hopeful", who has trouble (lately) catching the ball? Is he thinking too much about what he's supposed to do? Is it his concentration through the entire play? Is it physical or mental or what?

He runs great routes, gets good separation which to me is THE offense.

[freak6]

Javon Walker's contract should be seen by Ashley Lelie as an open invitation to come in, compete, and beat his ass out of Denver.

I think that Ashley knows he burnt so many bridges by running his mouth about the situation, he is having a hard time admitting that he was wrong. He has to much pride to be objective about the current situation with our WRs. I bet when the details of Javon's contract came out Ashley was feeling really embarrassed because all Shannahan did was go after a talented WR with Rod about to retire, and put a huge carrot in front of his face. But he didn't give Javon the carrot, he has to earn it.

Ashley needs to repent. I'd forgive him completely, people get emotional and make stupid rash decisions all the time. Time to save face, and work for what you want, the #1 spot.

I'm not holding my breath though.

[NaptownChief]

I have long contended that nobody values their trash more than the Broncos....Believing Lelie currently in a good situation brings a 1st rounder is a laugher but a damaged Lelie who has damaged his current situation makes it a complete joke. This reminds me of the Donks asking for a 1st rounder from Carolina for Orlandis Gary.

[watermock]

Team leaders like Rod Smith, Champ and even Shanahan have been very quiet. Champ did throw one across the bow about Brandon Marshall tho.

I honestly don't care.

[fontaine]

I have long contended that nobody values their trash more than the Broncos....Believing Lelie currently in a good situation brings a 1st rounder is a laugher but a damaged Lelie who has damaged his current situation makes it a complete joke. This reminds me of the Donks asking for a 1st rounder from Carolina for Orlandis Gary.

And we've long contended that Bronco fans don't really give a sh*t about what you have to stay.

But that doesn't stop you from spouting does it?

[NaptownChief]

And we've long contended that Bronco fans don't really give a sh*t about what you have to stay.

But that doesn't stop you from spouting does it?


And just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make me any less correct.

[Ballhawk]

I have long contended that nobody values their trash more than the Broncos....Believing Lelie currently in a good situation brings a 1st rounder is a laugher but a damaged Lelie who has damaged his current situation makes it a complete joke. This reminds me of the Donks asking for a 1st rounder from Carolina for Orlandis Gary.

You won't get if you don't ask. I would have never thought we would get Champ and a 2nd rounder for CP, but we did. Would have never thought a 3rd and 4th rounder would move us from #29 to #15 in this years draft, but it did.

I guess you prefer the Carl "sit on my hands" Petersen way of going thru an offseason.

[ludo21]

hmm......

The highe draft pick for Lelie is what we have expected.

But, a RB, does Shanny still want a legit #1 guy?? Are Dayne, Bell, Cobbs not gonna work?

Of course I think any of the 3 can go for 1k, but who knows...

[watermock]

I have long contended that nobody values their trash more than the Broncos....Believing Lelie currently in a good situation brings a 1st rounder is a laugher but a damaged Lelie who has damaged his current situation makes it a complete joke. This reminds me of the Donks asking for a 1st rounder from Carolina for Orlandis Gary.

Noone is laughing harder than me who thinks he's worth a first rounder yet alone a #1 reciever. Denver has never asked for a #1 for Lelie. He's got permission to seek a trade and they are offering worn out monopoly boards with half the chance cards missing and a half bottle of Ripple. Lelie is more and more forgotten by the day. I allready know he will drag his sorry ass in by July. I know what is going to happen.

[NaptownChief]

You won't get if you don't ask. I would have never thought we would get Champ and a 2nd rounder for CP, but we did. Would have never thought a 3rd and 4th rounder would move us from #29 to #15 in this years draft, but it did.

I guess you prefer the Carl "sit on my hands" Petersen way of going thru an offseason.



I have to agree with all of that....Even though you might look like a fool asking way too much occasionally you will find a fool willing to overpay so it doesn't hurt much to ask.

[Tredici]

And just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make me any less correct.

Just because you say it doesn't make it any more correct.

Think hard about why a team would ask for high compensation when it isn't due. C'mon. I know you can get there...

By the way the trash the Denver team collectively set out on the curb is still suiting up in Kansas City. So please don't get carried away about "value".

[12th man]

Trade him to Baltimore and get MA back.

[NaptownChief]

Just because you say it doesn't make it any more correct.




But years of usually be right makes the odds pretty good.

[fontaine]

Just because you say it doesn't make it any more correct.

Think hard about why a team would ask for high compensation when it isn't due. C'mon. I know you can get there...


It'll be a long wait.

Maybe after he's done fooling himself into believing the chef's defense can be best in the league.

[Tredici]

But years of usually be right makes the odds pretty good.


As an odds maker I'd take all the sucker money down I could get on "usually".

:rofl:

[MechanicalBull]

I'm a bit confused on what Denver wants for Lelie. One day we are asking Houston for a 4th and now Clayton is saying no one is going to give up a first. Also is Clayton stating fact that we are looking for an RB or is he just throwing out the idea since we don't have a confirmed number 1 back yet? I'd rather get a guy that can play now instead of a draft choice.

[Steve Sewell]

Yea, there's really nothing of starting quality out there IMO...nothing I can think of at least.

Is the Whizzinator available?:pimp:

[eddie mac]

This proves more than anything to me that Shanahan wants to keep Lelie both for insurance and the deep threat at least for the 2006 season.

Why else ask for a ridiculous price if you dont want the guy to go???

[cabronco]

IMO..Shanny is raising the stakes. For one, to give Lelie something to think about, like no one is going to give that up for me. And secondly more often than not, a receiver goes down on another team w/ a serious injury in training camp or preseason that puts the team in a desperate situation for a starting receiver and is willing to give up more.

[Requiem]

I'd take a fourth rounder and some ho-ho's for Ashley right now.

We'll get nothing out of this, he'll sit on the bench, rot and he'll walk in free agency.

[Atlas]

Is the Whizzinator available?:pimp:

I guess, he is playing in Canada.

[NaptownChief]

When all said and done I would be fine with the Chiefs sending you guys a couple used jock straps, 3 or 4 duffle bags and a 7th round pick for Lelie...The last Donk receiver we grabbed worked out pretty well so I am willing to role the dice again.

[Pat Bowlen]

The last Donk receiver we grabbed worked out pretty well so I am willing to role the dice again.
Haha. Yeah, you guys snatched Eddie right out from under our nose.

[DarkHorse30]

Both Eddie and Rod were cast-offs, of sorts. Rod went undrafted. Eddie was on his third team. Shanny (and company) did a fine job of developing them and Shannon.

Yes, they've not drafted first-round talent so well. But it doesn't matter HOW they find the diamonds, just find them. If Marshall is a steal, then great. It doesn't matter that they and 31 other teams didn't draft him until the fourth round (see Bailey's comments, see Terrell Davis).

Give some help with understanding how a complex offense has busted Watts, a year or two as a "hopeful", who has trouble (lately) catching the ball? Is he thinking too much about what he's supposed to do? Is it his concentration through the entire play? Is it physical or mental or what?

He runs great routes, gets good separation which to me is THE offense.

In 10 years of "developing" WRs, Shanahan has developed......three. Only one was drafted by Shanahan.....which leaves Eddie and Rod. Eddie isn't around anymore....and Rod is a few years away from retirement. Tell me again how many "diamonds" Shanahan has found? There's only one left....and Denver's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater? Brilliant.

Until Watts, or Marshall, or Terrell, or anybody actually does something in a broncos uniform....I'll take the malcontent.

[Northman]

When all said and done I would be fine with the Chiefs sending you guys a couple used jock straps, 3 or 4 duffle bags and a 7th round pick for Lelie...The last Donk receiver we grabbed worked out pretty well so I am willing to role the dice again.


I dont want to even see that. Green has a lot better accuracy and could easily hook up with Lelie any number of times. Just say no.

[Taco John]

The point is the Broncos don't really want to part with Ashley...

[Clockwork Orange]

The point is the Broncos don't really want to part with Ashley...

And no one else wants to part with anything worthwhile to get Ashley...

[Taco John]

And no one else wants to part with anything worthwhile to get Ashley...



Not true. The Broncos turned down a third rounder in this past draft.

[Clockwork Orange]

Not true. The Broncos turned down a third rounder in this past draft.

Link?

[Taco John]

Link?


Unfortunately, I can't link you to my email inbox... But I believe even Wabbit has corroborated the story earlier this month. We reportedly turned down an offer from Philly.

[Clockwork Orange]

Unfortunately, I can't link you to my email inbox... But I believe even Wabbit has corroborated the story earlier this month. We reportedly turned down an offer from Philly.

Then that's a shame because they won't get a better offer than that.

[TotallyScrewed]

In 10 years of "developing" WRs, Shanahan has developed......three. Only one was drafted by Shanahan.....which leaves Eddie and Rod. Eddie isn't around anymore....and Rod is a few years away from retirement. Tell me again how many "diamonds" Shanahan has found? There's only one left....and Denver's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater? Brilliant.

Until Watts, or Marshall, or Terrell, or anybody actually does something in a broncos uniform....I'll take the malcontent.

I was just pointing out that Shanahan hasn't done so poorly as your "Ashley is as goods as it gets". When they had Rod, Eddie and Shannon, how many other WR's had even a sniff at breaking into the line-up? Who can tell how many diamonds are around? There have been a number of chunks of coal but we don't know about those you mention.

Has Denver ever been without a pretty good one-two punch at WR under the Shanahan era? Personally, I like Smith and Lelie. Would I like more production and/or a solid 3? You bet. There are a lot of teams (Chiefs, San Diego, Cleveland, on and on) that try as they might can't seem to get a good one-two much less three.

[Taco John]

Then that's a shame because they won't get a better offer than that.


The point is that they don't really want to trade him. They want Lelie in camp and working out.

[Clockwork Orange]

The point is that they don't really want to trade him. They want Lelie in camp and working out.

To a point, but they also weren't going to trade him unless they were getting back what they perceive to be fair value. They obviously don't see a mid 3rd rounder as fair value, a point on which I disagree with them.

Of course they want Lelie in camp. The offense is better with him than it is without him, but it's not as if they're going to panic should he decide to hold out and not report until week 10. He's more of a luxury at this point than anything.

[sisterhellfyre]

It's times like this you wish there was an Isaiah Thomas of the NFL.

Dan Snyder isn't close enough for you?

Regards,
m.

[Popps]

"a first rounder"

:rofl: LOL :rofl:

Hey guys, let's trade. We've got a borderline bust we drafted in the first round who has the numbers of your average #3 receiver.

Asking price? First rounder.


This has inspired me. I'm going to go see if I can trade my Mitsubishi in for a Maserati.

[Tombstone RJ]

"a first rounder"

:rofl: LOL :rofl:

Hey guys, let's trade. We've got a borderline bust we drafted in the first round who has the numbers of your average #3 receiver.

Asking price? First rounder.


This has inspired me. I'm going to go see if I can trade my Mitsubishi in for a Maserati.

You can't knock Shanny for trying...;)

[DarkHorse30]

Has Denver ever been without a pretty good one-two punch at WR under the Shanahan era? Personally, I like Smith and Lelie. Would I like more production and/or a solid 3? You bet. There are a lot of teams (Chiefs, San Diego, Cleveland, on and on) that try as they might can't seem to get a good one-two much less three.

I can't really fault Shanahan's offense...it is always productive. The biggest problem, IMO, has been replacing Sharpe. The guy was likely the key cog in Denver's wheel. Look at the Chiefs.....without Gonzales, their offense would probably be moved out of the top 10. With him, and with any star TE w/70+ catches(like in SD, with Gates, or Heap, Shockey, etc.) an offense can really open things up.

Absent a great TE, Denver has nearly had to start over. Sure the running scheme is always good....thanks to a very good O-line and pretty good RBs.....but our QB has had to basically start from scratch. There is often nearly no one to throw to.....

......which is why you don't start taking targets away, especially WR targets that "work". Getting Walker MAY be the answer to solving "no Sharpe"....but not if we jettison Lelie in the process.

[clean]

Negotiating Skills: Ask For More Than You Expect To Get
By Richard Cunningham

The solution, says Dawson – a renowned speaker and author of the book, “Secrets of Power Negotiating for Salespeople” – is to “ask for more than you expect to get, but imply some flexibility so that you can encourage them to negotiate with you.”

http://www.morebusiness.com/running_your_business/profitability/Estory-21920.brc