Questions about the AFC West

[dlow187]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???

[Sir Mawn]

I say Rivers will not be a Ryan Leaf. I haven't seen him enough but he strikes as being a smart QB.

Diaper Boy's a good RB. I think he'll definitely carry the load: 1400 yds.

Not Herm, not Belichick, not Buddy Ryan, not Vince Lombardi. The Chefs D sucks. Period.

Brooks will be the Brooks of old in a pityful organization, once again.

[Kaylore]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???
I don't think he'll be very good. His entire team, including his coach, were pissed the Brees is gone. Every interviewed player about Rivers produced reactions of concern and anticipated problems. The move has really pissed off Marty too.

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore??? He'll be fine.

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend??? No. Herm is just as soft on his players as Vermeil was. Just because someone is loud, that doesn't mean they're hard-nosed.

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old??? Man, I hope so.

[Raider Bill]

I dont want to spitshine the Brooks signing too much, but...

Brooks had a defense that ranked higher than 26th in points allowed exactly one season in NO. They gave up damn near 400 points annually his whole time there. That's just pathetic

I didnt follow them that closely, but it would appear that he wasnt getting much help coming back the other way.

[Clockwork Orange]

I dont want to spitshine the Brooks signing too much, but...

Brooks had a defense that ranked higher than 26th in points allowed exactly one season in NO. They gave up damn near 400 points annually his whole time there. That's just pathetic

I didnt follow them that closely, but it would appear that he wasnt getting much help coming back the other way.

I'll give you that, but I'll also add that I've seen Brooks throw some passes that would make Jake Plummer cringe.

[ludo21]

I for one am scared of what the Raider O can do with Brooks. When the OL breaks down, he has quickness to avoid pressure.

And he has a decent arm and can get it to Moss. He is an IDIOT at times, but has shown some flashes, i just hope he doesnt capture too many flashes in a row.

[Killericon]

Brooks to Moss will be a term we will learn well over the coming seasons....of course, this will not change the fact that, like the Saints, the Defense will lose them Games.

[Ballhawk]

I for one am scared of what the Raider O can do with Brooks. When the OL breaks down, he has quickness to avoid pressure.

And he has a decent arm and can get it to Moss. He is an IDIOT at times, but has shown some flashes, i just hope he doesnt capture too many flashes in a row.

Im not, he is very streaky and prone to make mistakes. He had a good Oline Duece, Joe Horn and others. That offense was more stacked IMO than the Raiders are.

[brncs_fan]

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???
Not Leaf but not elite either. Should fall somewhere in the middle of the pack in qb rating every year.

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???
Unfortunately yes. I look for hom to easily hit the 1800 yd mark if KC's line stays healthy.
Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???
No. They would have trouble stopping people with semi-automatic weapons.

In reality though, I would look for minimal to marginal improvement that Bob will proclaim as the coming of the 85 Bears
Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???
My opinion of Brooks changes by the day. Today I will say that he is beyond the point in his career for a resurrection. There is not much worst in life than getting benched when you are the QB in New Orleans.

Ask me again tomorrow though.

[kmartin575]

I say Rivers will not be a Ryan Leaf. I haven't seen him enough but he strikes as being a smart QB.

Diaper Boy's a good RB. I think he'll definitely carry the load: 1400 yds.

Not Herm, not Belichick, not Buddy Ryan, not Vince Lombardi. The Chefs D sucks. Period.

Brooks will be the Brooks of old in a pityful organization, once again.

Considering the Chiefs have just as much talent on defense as the Broncos that is a pretty stupid statement. Also, considering he got 1750 last year 1400 yards is a little low.

[kmartin575]

[quote=dlow187]Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???[quote]
I don't think he'll be very good. His entire team, including his coach, were pissed the Brees is gone. Every interviewed player about Rivers produced reactions of concern and anticipated problems. The move has really pissed off Marty too.

He'll be fine.

No. Herm is just as soft on his players as Vermeil was. Just because someone is loud, that doesn't mean they're hard-nosed.

Man, I hope so.

The difference is Herm Edwards is a defensive coach. Dick Vermeil was an offensive coach who had little impact on the defense. Herm Edwards alone is going to be able to fix the secondary.

[Clockwork Orange]

Herm Edwards alone is going to be able to fix the secondary.

Oh Jesus, it's another one of these. ::)

I guess the mantra is now, "Herm will fix everything!"

[brncs_fan]

Considering the Chiefs have just as much talent on defense as the Broncos that is a pretty stupid statement. Also, considering he got 1750 last year 1400 yards is a little low.
Aside from Allen at DE, you are far from having as much talent on defense as we do at any position.

[Tha rock]

i dont think rivers will be very good at all, jhonson will tear it up once again but the next season he wont when alot of his boys retire. Brooks will be coached by a guy who makes his players consistent and gets in there face coach shell will make him be consistent im sure of it brooks to Moss and porter. Please dont try to compare NO offense to Oaklands we have a better WR core and deuce in my opinion overated jordan is under rated. The defense will be alot better to.

[watermock]

Rivers will be fine but his release is low. SD was in a fix. Ironically, now so are we, but Jake wasn't coming off a bad year like Brees.

DiaperBoy woke up and should get his yards.

Herm Edwards I don't know, probably some improvement, but too little too late for the whole team.

Brooks has never put it together, very inconsistent.

[brncs_fan]

Please dont try to compare NO offense to Oaklands we have a better WR core and deuce in my opinion overated jordan is under rated. The defense will be alot better to.
I didn't make a copmparison of the two. What I stated is getting benched for Todd Bouman when NO had nothing to play for anyways is probably not a good sign.

[Kaylore]

The difference is Herm Edwards is a defensive coach. Dick Vermeil was an offensive coach who had little impact on the defense. Herm Edwards alone is going to be able to fix the secondary.
LOL

[Tha rock]

I didn't make a copmparison of the two. What I stated is getting benched for Todd Bouman when NO had nothing to play for anyways is probably not a good sign.



im pretty sure he got benched for his public crtisicsm of the owner

[brncs_fan]

im pretty sure he got benched for his public crtisicsm of the owner
I'm pretty sure the criticism came after the benching.

[SoCalBronco]

Brooks to Moss will be a term we will learn well over the coming seasons....of course, this will not change the fact that, like the Saints, the Defense will lose them Games.

I actually think Oakland's defense will make a marked improvement this season. I think Anttaj Hawthorne will earn a starting spot at DT and play well against the run. Burgess had a good year last year at DE. I like their young trio at LB. Bing will be very good at LB. Morrisson isnt terribly gifted but he was productive last year and instinctive and I think Howard will see some time. Bing and Howard will provide good speed and will reduce the number of times the defense gets outflanked to the outside. Huff should provide very good range against the deep ball and their young corners have good speed. Al has done a good job the last couple drafts in adding speed to the back seven (although Schweigert is not a standout in that department). I really like the youngsters they have added to their back seven. This will be a good back seven the next few years once all these guys get comfortable. They need to go to the 4-3 full time, put Burgess at power end, Brayton at weakside end, where he flourished as a rookie a few years ago. This will be a decent defense this year and a good to very good defense the next few years.

[brncs_fan]

I'm pretty sure the criticism came after the benching.
Actually I was wrong...but so were you.

Coach Jim Haslett said Wednesday that Brooks was demoted for on-field play, not for voicing his displeasure with team owner Tom Benson after players have been shuffled among multiple practice sites this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=2260427

[Pat Bowlen]

I dont want to spitshine the Brooks signing too much, but...

Brooks had a defense that ranked higher than 26th in points allowed exactly one season in NO. They gave up damn near 400 points annually his whole time there. That's just pathetic

I didnt follow them that closely, but it would appear that he wasnt getting much help coming back the other way.
Funniest post I've read in a long time. Spitshine? More like drool. Do you close your eyes when your team plays defense?

Over the past two years, Oakland and New Orleans have given up almost exactly the same number of points and yards per game. In fact, if you averaged the two years together the Saints would lead in both categories.

[kmartin575]

Oh Jesus, it's another one of these. ::)

I guess the mantra is now, "Herm will fix everything!"

No, I don't believe he will fix everything. However, we do have a much better defensive coaching staff and Herm Edwards is definitely going to affect the secondary being a former defensive back himself. At minicamp he was working alot with the defensive backs and he likes to work almost as a position coach at times in practice. Edwards is going to improve this secondary.

[kmartin575]

Aside from Allen at DE, you are far from having as much talent on defense as we do at any position.

Sure we do. The Chiefs have better safeties and better depth at safety. Gerard Warren is better than any Chiefs DT but the Chiefs have alot better depth at DT. The Chiefs have much better DE's and alot of depth at DE. The Broncos linebackers as a whole are better than the Chiefs but Derrick Johnson is better than any Broncos OLB and the Chiefs have alot of depth at linebacker. The Broncos biggest advantage is cornerback and the Chiefs' young guys need to prove there worth to be comparable here.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Herm will improve the defense...as will the new defensive coaching staff. Julian Battle already said he got more instruction in one mini-camp from Herm than he did in three years with Vermeil.

I look for the Chiefs to give up about 15 points per game.

[broncohaven]

I look for the Chiefs to give up about 15 points per game.
Which half is that going to be in Bob?

I expect the Chiefs to be about what they were last year. Better under Herm, but the transition to a new coach will make for some bumps that will result in a wash.

The "Chiefs D is as talented as the Broncos" argument is laughable. Free safety is the only position where the Chiefs even compare at all, and Derrick Johnson is not better than DJ Williams.
Rookie #s:

Derrick- 95 tackles, 2 sacks, 5 passes defended, 0 ints
DJ- 114 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 passes defended, 1 int

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Which half is that going to be in Bob?

I expect the Chiefs to be about what they were last year. Better under Herm, but the transition to a new coach will make for some bumps that will result in a wash.

The "Chiefs D is as talented as the Broncos" argument is laughable. Free safety is the only position where the Chiefs even compare at all, and Derrick Johnson is not better than DJ Williams.
Rookie #s:

Derrick- 95 tackles, 2 sacks, 5 passes defended, 0 ints
DJ- 114 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 passes defended, 1 int

Why are you comparing DJ's rookie numbers to Derrick's rookie numbers?

Derrick played strongside linebacker as a rookie and produced at a higher level than DJ Williams did as a SECOND-YEAR player at strongside linebacker.

I think Derrick Johnson is better than DJ. He's played at a higher level with inferior talent around him, too. We don't have a Gerard Warren.

[broncohaven]

Why are you comparing DJ's rookie numbers to Derrick's rookie numbers?

Derrick played strongside linebacker as a rookie and produced at a higher level than DJ Williams did as a SECOND-YEAR player at strongside linebacker.

I think Derrick Johnson is better than DJ. He's played at a higher level with inferior talent around him, too. We don't have a Gerard Warren.
What planet are you from where Derrick Johnson is a strongside LB?

[Raider Bill]

Funniest post I've read in a long time. Spitshine? More like drool. Do you close your eyes when your team plays defense?

Over the past two years, Oakland and New Orleans have given up almost exactly the same number of points and yards per game. In fact, if you averaged the two years together the Saints would lead in both categories.


The Raiders defense has trended upwards without a lot of talent or speed at the OLB and S positions.

Some of those talent issues have been addressed and with the same defensive staff I would expect the trend to continue.

New Orleans' defense never really demonstrated an upwards trend, they spiked up to 14th one year when Brooks was there, that's it. Like I said I didnt watch too many Saints games so there may have been other mitigating factors.

Saints
Year Points For (Rank) Points against (Rank)


2005. 31 28
2004 14 28
2003 14 14
2002 3 26
2001 13 27

[Bob's your Information Minister]

What planet are you from where Derrick Johnson is a strongside LB?

Planet earth?

[Raider Bill]

What planet are you from where Derrick Johnson is a strongside LB?


I seem to remember Johnson on the left (offense's right) and Bell on the Right (offenses left)


The Chiefs website says that's where he lined up too.


LE 98 Eric Hicks 96 Jimmy Wilkerson
LT 90 Ryan Sims 93 John Browning 94 Junior Siavii
RT 75 Lional Dalton 96 Jimmy Wilkerson
RE 69 Jared Allen 92 Carlos Hall
L OLB 56 Derrick Johnson
MLB 50 Kawika Mitchell 55 Rich Scanlon 51 Boomer Grigsby
ROLB 99 Kendrell Bell
LCB 23 Patrick Surtain 20 Benny Sapp 47 Alphonso Hodge
RCB 30 Dewayne Washington
SS 29 Sammy Knight 24 William Bartee
FS 25 Greg Wesley 21 Jerome Woods

[Raider Bill]

Planet earth?



How do you geeks do that? :rofl: (post a screen capture)

[broncohaven]

I seem to remember Johnson on the left (offense's right) and Bell on the Right (offenses left)


The Chiefs website says that's where he lined up too.
Funny, that's where Gold lines up too.

[Raider Bill]

Funny, that's where Gold lines up too.

No he doesnt, he lines up on the Right (offenses left) typically the weakside with a right handed QB

From the Broncos website

Broncos Defense
LE 98 Courtney Brown 91 Ebenezer Ekuban 92 Marco Coleman
LT 96 Michael Myers 75 Monsanto Pope
RT 61Gerard Warren 97 Demetrin Veal
RE 93 Trevor Pryce 60 John Engelberger
WLB 52 Ian Gold 53 Louis Green
MLB 56 Al Wilson 51 Keith Burns
SLB 55 D.J. Williams 54 Patrick Chukwurah
LCB 24 Champ Bailey 45 Roc Alexander
RCB 22 Domonique Foxworth 27 Darrent Williams 41Karl Paymah
SS 25 Nick Ferguson 42 Sam Brandon 21 Hamza Abdullah
FS 47 John Lynch 40 Curome Cox

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Funny, that's where Gold lines up too.

Heh. Really? According to the Broncos site, he's the weakside linebacker:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=134

[broncohaven]

David: shawnee kansas: Do you consider yourself more of a Strongside or a weakside linebacker? Please come to Kansas city!!!!

Derrick Johnson: More of a weakside. That's what I played in college. I can play all the LB positions though. That's just the versatility I have.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yes, but the Chiefs moved him to strongside linebacker. Please shut up. You are WRONG.

[Rock Chalk]

I dont want to spitshine the Brooks signing too much, but...

Brooks had a defense that ranked higher than 26th in points allowed exactly one season in NO. They gave up damn near 400 points annually his whole time there. That's just pathetic

I didnt follow them that closely, but it would appear that he wasnt getting much help coming back the other way.
Brooks has horrible decision making abilities and at least 30% of those points the defense gave up were directly related to the inability of Brooks to handle the ball. Turnovers, and 3 and outs were the downfall of that offense and Brooks was a big part of that.

He didnt have a lot of offensive help. WR are average, RB is great but the line stinks ass. Brooks is slightly smarter than Vick with much less talent. For whatever that's worth.

[12th man]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???
Rivers- I think he will be a decent qb, but he won't be good this year. IMO. I know he has carried a clip board for a couple of years now, and probably knows the sysyem, but he has only played one game I think. so the lack of full game expereriance might hurt him his first year.

LJ-I garuntee he can hanle the workload.

Herm-Maybe. he is a defensive minded coach. but with david gibbs as their db coach, and lenny walls back their, things could stay the same as they are or even worse.

Brooks-He might be a litte better just cause of Moss and the other wr's there. but he had good wr's in NO, but he has a little better wr's in oakland, so he might be a little better.

[Raider Bill]

If you actually saw a Chiefs game Johnson played over the TE and Bell lined up at the Whip.

[Raider Bill]

Brooks has horrible decision making abilities and at least 30% of those points the defense gave up were directly related to the inability of Brooks to handle the ball. Turnovers, and 3 and outs were the downfall of that offense and Brooks was a big part of that.

He didnt have a lot of offensive help. WR are average, RB is great but the line stinks ass. Brooks is slightly smarter than Vick with much less talent. For whatever that's worth.


His TD/Interception ratio alone is 50% better than Collins' while playing on worse teams. Brooks ~ 1.5:1 Collins ~1:1

[RockyMountainThunder]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

Anyone who has LT and AG on his team will probably be successful, the qb is never just on an island alone and having those two guys will be huge. That said I just dont thin he is going to get it done, not a Ryan Leaf bust, but not Drew Brees either.

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

Nobody is mentioning the loss of Tony Richardson at fullback, I really believe that is going to end up really hurting LJ and his numbers. TR is one of the best if not the best fullbacks in the league. LJ will get more carries but wont rip up the NFL, especially since the Chiefs did nothing to upgrade their recieving core, again they are stuck with Kennison, lost Boerichter, and Hall who cant play every down cause of his size.

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

I dont think it matters what he teaches them because they have to have the skill to pull it off, so no he cant.

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???
Yes in word, he will be. Brooks had success throwing to Stallworth, and Horn, and a good running back. He has an undermotivated Moss, and Porter to throw to, but his deep ball isnt even as good as Collins. They still have a bad defense, although they drafted Huff, and plus they are the Raiders, COMMITMENT TO LOSING is far more accurate.

[RockyMountainThunder]

ugh!!!

New guy figuring out the forum and how it works, the text quoted above are my thoughts, the ones after the little ??? dude.

[Paladin]

Mullets. *yawn* Zoo close early?

[MechanicalBull]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???

I haven't seen too much of Rivers besides the garbage time he has played so I can't really judge until he gets more experience.

Johnson will be able to carry the workload and get somewhere around 1500 or so yds. He still has a great OL hopefully losing Richardson won't hurt him too much.

Herm will teach them to play a little bit better but that is all. He wasn't this high and mighty defensive genius in NY. KC will still give up a lot through the air.

I still see Brooks being inconsistent but he does have a better team around him and it doesn't hurt having Moss and Porter.

[Rock Chalk]

His TD/Interception ratio alone is 50% better than Collins' while playing on worse teams. Brooks ~ 1.5:1 Collins ~1:1
I didnt say he wouldnt be an improvement, but he isnt the answer.

[redrage]

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

I think he's going to be a good QB. He handles himself well and seems grounded. He obviously can throw based on his NCAA numbers and if he hasn't gotten the playbook down after 2 years, it ain't gonna happen. In the QB position it's all about handling the pressure and you can't get it without playing time. His sidearm delivery will remind people of Kosar. I imagine that's about how good he'll end up, which isn't bad at all.

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

I don't think he surprised anyone last season. I hear that time and time again how someone 'snuck' up on a team. NFL coaches are videorats. They know who is good. As for handling the workload? Who knows? If he maintains a pace like the end of last season, he could break down or become another Jamal Anderson. He still had some darn good games when Roaf wasn't playing so the kid is legit. My concern is his pass blocking and, of course, staying healthy.

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

Absolutely. Will they? I don't know. After 4-5 years of this sh!t, I've taken the Missouri state motto to heart. You got to 'Show Me' something. IMO there are only about 3 players on that defense with elite talent--Surtain, Johnson and Sims. Surtain I thought had a somewhat down year, I expected more out of DJ and Sims only shows it in itty-bitty spurts, but it's there.

A handful are overacheivers given their physical limitations (Knight, Mitchell, Allen) and the rest of them have played like bums.

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???

Has he ever been anything other than he has been? I view Brooks as being a Jake Plummer but without the work ethic. Meaning, it seems as if Jake is prepared and knows what to do, but in the heat of competition he'll pull a brain fart from time to time trying to make a play he doesn't need to. Brooks, on the other hand, looks as if he is totally lost sometimes and doesn't grasp a thing while only getting by on physical ability. Whereas Jake has benefited from an improved team and coach to give him more structure, I'm not sure Brooks' potential is all that high.

[delany]

Ah. The annual right of Spring.

When Chief fans claim their team is just as good as the Broncos...

That a coaching changing will make all the difference...

That the O-line is NOT getting old...

and on and on.

To quote a mullet...I love you retards

[baja]

[QUOTE=Kaylore][quote=dlow187]Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

The difference is Herm Edwards is a defensive coach. Dick Vermeil was an offensive coach who had little impact on the defense. <b>Herm Edwards alone is going to be able to fix the secondary.</b>

Will that be another 3 year plan or will he just wave his magic wand?

[Old Dude]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???


It would be hard to be that bad. He'll have a rough start, and the Chargers will suffer, but he should develop into at least an average QB within a year or two.


Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

...

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???
...


The workload won't be a problem, and he wasn't surprising anyone down the stretch. Everyone knew he was a threat. The real issue is whether KC's aging offensive line can stay healthy.

Says here they won't.


...
Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???
...


It's more of a talent issue than a coaching issue. Surtain will help their secondary and a couple of the younger guys should improve. Overall, I expect they will show some improvement this year.


...

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???

He'll probably better than last year with the Saints, but he'll still turn in some bad performances.

[Florida_Bronco]

:~ohyah!: Ah. The annual right of Spring.

When Chief fans claim their team is just as good as the Broncos...

That a coaching changing will make all the difference...

That the O-line is NOT getting old...

and on and on.

To quote a mullet...I love you retards

Give them some credit man, they've awarded themselves the "Offseason Lombardi Trophy" for over 25 years now ROFL! :~ohyah!:

[kmartin575]

Which half is that going to be in Bob?

I expect the Chiefs to be about what they were last year. Better under Herm, but the transition to a new coach will make for some bumps that will result in a wash.

The "Chiefs D is as talented as the Broncos" argument is laughable. Free safety is the only position where the Chiefs even compare at all, and Derrick Johnson is not better than DJ Williams.
Rookie #s:

Derrick- 95 tackles, 2 sacks, 5 passes defended, 0 ints
DJ- 114 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 passes defended, 1 int

Free safety is the only position we compare at all? How about defensive end. The Broncos defensive ends suck. And outside of Gerrard Warren you have zero depth at defensive tackle and nobody else is any better than the Chiefs DT's. The Chiefs have a much better defensive line. And yes, I'm sorry, but Derrick Johnson is easily the better linebacker. He was the most highest rated linebacker to come out of college in recent years and he has much more talent than D.J. Williams. Johnson's numbers would have been higher if it wasn't for the fact that he switched to strongside responsibilities at some point during the season and so his tackles went down, just like D.J. Willliams' overall tackles went down with him playing strongside.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Derrick was a strongside linebacker from the beginning. He still racked up 95 tackles and will probably maintain that number for a decade.

DJ Williams' tackles were sliced by more than 50 percent by moving to strongside linebacker.

[Ballhawk]

Derrick was a strongside linebacker from the beginning. He still racked up 95 tackles and will probably maintain that number for a decade.

DJ Williams' tackles were sliced by more than 50 percent by moving to strongside linebacker.

So was his playing time as he went out on nickle plays. I really think the game has not fully slowed down for him yet, but I expect a huge step forward this year from him. I believe both DJs are very talented, but Our DJ is out of position right now. In the long run it may benefit him as he will understand what an offense is doing more so now.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I agree...DJ is plenty talented, but he's a weakside linebacker.

[Raider Bill]

I didnt say he wouldnt be an improvement, but he isnt the answer.


That's about what I think. Walter will be under center soon IMO.

[kmartin575]

I agree...DJ is plenty talented, but he's a weakside linebacker.

Which DJ do you speak of?

[Tha rock]

That's about what I think. Walter will be under center soon IMO.



ok what happens if he becomes like gannon,plunkitt,hostetler andhe goes to the probowl? what i dont understand is why people keep saying he not the guy. walter will be under center soon maybe i like walter but that if brooks sucks he will be becuse if he steps in late this season our team will suck i dont want that to happen at all.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Which DJ do you speak of?

Donks.

[Iowanian]

I'm a Chiefs fan...and you are out of your mind.

Sure we do. The Chiefs have better safeties and better depth at safety. Gerard Warren is better than any Chiefs DT but the Chiefs have alot better depth at DT. The Chiefs have much better DE's and alot of depth at DE. The Broncos linebackers as a whole are better than the Chiefs but Derrick Johnson is better than any Broncos OLB and the Chiefs have alot of depth at linebacker. The Broncos biggest advantage is cornerback and the Chiefs' young guys need to prove there worth to be comparable here.

[kmartin575]

I'm a Chiefs fan...and you are out of your mind.

How? The only positions the Broncos have an advantage at are cornerback and linebacker.

[Ballhawk]

Free safety is the only position we compare at all? How about defensive end. The Broncos defensive ends suck. And outside of Gerrard Warren you have zero depth at defensive tackle and nobody else is any better than the Chiefs DT's. The Chiefs have a much better defensive line. And yes, I'm sorry, but Derrick Johnson is easily the better linebacker. He was the most highest rated linebacker to come out of college in recent years and he has much more talent than D.J. Williams. Johnson's numbers would have been higher if it wasn't for the fact that he switched to strongside responsibilities at some point during the season and so his tackles went down, just like D.J. Willliams' overall tackles went down with him playing strongside.

I will wait to form an opinion on DE as I think as a group they are better than given credit for due to the system. Same for DT, but I think Warren played extremely well and will be a beast this year. LB you are crazy. Gold is so undervalued, all he does is make play after play. He may not have the measuables of Derrick but he had twice as many tackles for losses and forced fumbles. Across the board our LBs are always mentioned in the top in the NFL. Also as a group our Safties are better and our CBs are better.

Jared Allen is the only player on D KC has that is head and shoulders better, but Brown, being healthy for the first time coming into camp, may close the gap there.

[Ballhawk]

How? The only positions the Broncos have an advantage at are cornerback and linebacker.
Like I said CB, S, LB we have the advantage and DLine is still too early to judge.

edited to make clear.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

LE: Chiefs (Hali)
LDT: Chiefs (Sims)
RDT: Broncos (Warren)
RE: Chiefs (Allen)

L0LB: Chiefs (Derrick Johnson)
MLB: Broncos (Wilson)
ROLB: Broncos (Gold)

CB: Chiefs (Surtain)
CB: Broncos (Bailey)

FS: Broncos (Lynch)
SS: Chiefs (Knight)

The Chiefs have the edge in starters (6 vs 5).

Broncos have the edge in depth at corner at linebacker.

Chiefs have the edge in depth along the defensive line and at safety.

It's about even. The Broncos have had the edge in coaching staff, which naturally is a huge advantage.

[kmartin575]

Like I said CB, S, LB and DLine is still too early to judge.

So basically the whole defense is way too early to judge. KC has to have the advantage at safety. John Lynch is probably the best safety between the two teams but Nick Ferguson is nothing special. Yes Ferguson had 5 interceptions but Wesley had 6 so based on interceptions that makes Wesley better alone. Sammy Knight is getting older but is still a great leader in the secondary. The Chiefs have better depth at safety with the draft picks from this year, Bernard Pollard and Jarrad Page. Bernard Pollard is probably going to develop into a very good strong safety and could compete for a starting job this year.

[Rascal]

FYI...

CFL | D. Davis heads North Tue, 16 May 2006 21:16:57 -0700

The Associated Press reports the Edmonton Eskimos of the CFL have signed NFL free agent DL Dorsett Davis (Broncos).

[kmartin575]

LE: Chiefs (Hali)
LDT: Chiefs (Sims)
RDT: Broncos (Warren)
RE: Chiefs (Allen)

L0LB: Chiefs (Derrick Johnson)
MLB: Broncos (Wilson)
ROLB: Broncos (Gold)

CB: Chiefs (Surtain)
CB: Broncos (Bailey)

FS: Broncos (Lynch)
SS: Chiefs (Knight)

The Chiefs have the edge in starters (6 vs 5).

Broncos have the edge in depth at corner at linebacker.

Chiefs have the edge in depth along the defensive line and at safety.

It's about even. The Broncos have had the edge in coaching staff, which naturally is a huge advantage.

That's all I'm trying to say. The Chiefs have an equal amount of talent to the Broncos on defense but the Broncos still play better as a team and have a great coaching staff. Hopefully the Chiefs new coaching staff can bridge the gap. Gunther Cunningham described the new coaching staff as one that is very rare to put together because all of the new position coaches are some of the better ones in the league.

[Ballhawk]

So basically the whole defense is way too early to judge. KC has to have the advantage at safety. John Lynch is probably the best safety between the two teams but Nick Ferguson is nothing special. Yes Ferguson had 5 interceptions but Wesley had 6 so based on interceptions that makes Wesley better alone. Sammy Knight is getting older but is still a great leader in the secondary. The Chiefs have better depth at safety with the draft picks from this year, Bernard Pollard and Jarrad Page. Bernard Pollard is probably going to develop into a very good strong safety and could compete for a starting job this year.

We have three proven vets in Lynch, Fergy and Brandon (who got the better of TEs all year). We also have two guys that we feel are going to be very good, but just like yours they are not proven. So since we have the best #1 and #3 S, I would say our group is better.

[Florida_Bronco]

I'm a Chiefs fan...and you are out of your mind.

I think that there offically dis-credits anything he says from now on 8')

[kmartin575]

I think that there offically dis-credits anything he says from now on 8')

Anything who says?

[eddie mac]

How many defensive Pro-Bowlers did KC have last year and how many did the Broncos have??? 0-3. Some KC defenders may be stars in your eyes Bob but in ours they're just another nameless wonder.

[eddie mac]

That's all I'm trying to say. The Chiefs have an equal amount of talent to the Broncos on defense but the Broncos still play better as a team and have a great coaching staff. Hopefully the Chiefs new coaching staff can bridge the gap. Gunther Cunningham described the new coaching staff as one that is very rare to put together because all of the new position coaches are some of the better ones in the league.

You're not off to a good start. Firstly your a Chef fan, secondly you're not even a realistic Chef Fan and worst of all you come on to a Bronco forum with a username that should be in pink. How's your kendonitis anyway Kenyon???

[kmartin575]

How many defensive Pro-Bowlers did KC have last year and how many did the Broncos have??? 0-3. Some KC defenders may be stars in your eyes Bob but in ours they're just another nameless wonder.

John Lynch made it on name alone.

[kmartin575]

How many defensive Pro-Bowlers did KC have last year and how many did the Broncos have??? 0-3. Some KC defenders may be stars in your eyes Bob but in ours they're just another nameless wonder.

And the Broncos offense sucks compared to KC's. Broncos had Jake Plummer and Rod Smith. The Chiefs had Trent Green, Larry Johnson, Brian Waters, Will Shields, and Willie Roaf. We win 5-2.

[eddie mac]

And the Broncos offense sucks compared to KC's. Broncos had Jake Plummer and Rod Smith. The Chiefs had Trent Green, Larry Johnson, Brian Waters, Will Shields, and Willie Roaf. We win 5-2.

I seem to recall that we were talking about defense so unless the 5 fvckers you listed play both ways your statement's quite irrelevant.:D

[kmartin575]

I seem to recall that we were talking about defense so unless the 5 fvckers you listed play both ways your statement's quite irrelevant.:D

Maybe, but it proves a point. Just because you had more pro bowlers than us does not mean our defense is going to suck. We had more offensive pro bowlers than Denver did and while our offense is better it does not mean Denver's offense sucks.

[Raider Bill]

ok what happens if he becomes like gannon,plunkitt,hostetler andhe goes to the probowl?

No chance that happens.

[Tha rock]

No chance that happens.




id like to no how you no that Ms.cleo

[Atlas]

I dont want to spitshine the Brooks signing too much, but...

Brooks had a defense that ranked higher than 26th in points allowed exactly one season in NO. They gave up damn near 400 points annually his whole time there. That's just pathetic

I didnt follow them that closely, but it would appear that he wasnt getting much help coming back the other way.

Brooks is a Kerry Collins clone.

[Tha rock]

Brooks is a Kerry Collins clone.




ummm not really

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Brooks is a Kerry Collins clone.

Jesus Christ, Atlas. That avatar is hot.

[brncs_fan]

LE: Chiefs (Hali)
LDT: Chiefs (Sims)
RDT: Broncos (Warren)
RE: Chiefs (Allen)

L0LB: Chiefs (Derrick Johnson)
MLB: Broncos (Wilson)
ROLB: Broncos (Gold)

CB: Chiefs (Surtain)
CB: Broncos (Bailey)

FS: Broncos (Lynch)
SS: Chiefs (Knight)

The Chiefs have the edge in starters (6 vs 5).

Broncos have the edge in depth at corner at linebacker.

Chiefs have the edge in depth along the defensive line and at safety.

It's about even. The Broncos have had the edge in coaching staff, which naturally is a huge advantage.
How exactly do you place someone who has never played a down of professional football over one of our DE's who does have playing time?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

How exactly do you place someone who has never played a down of professional football over one of our DE's who does have playing time?

Because he's a better player.

[kmartin575]

How exactly do you place someone who has never played a down of professional football over one of our DE's who does have playing time?

Because while they Broncos do have a good defense there defensive ends suck.

[Clockwork Orange]

How exactly do you place someone who has never played a down of professional football over one of our DE's who does have playing time?

Because Bob's a dip**** homer.

Just sit back and wait for reality to kick in. Bob has effectively cursed Hali. He was writing Derrick Johnson's acceptance speech for the DROY last year and it turned out that he wasn't even the best rookie linebacker in the division. :rofl:

[SoCalBronco]

Bob never heard of Tamba Hali until about February and now he is claiming that he is a better player right now than other starting DEs in the division.

You dont even watch college football. You've admitted that. Your completely ignorant on the topic (as usual).

You did the same thing last year. You hadn't even heard of Dustin Colquitt and right after the draft you were saying he was going to own and rape. Your such a ****ing ******. Croyle got picked, you immediately ran across the basement to your desk to pick up your Sporting News draft mag, tore out his picture and starting jacking off to it. There was no knowledge of anything, you just went into full homer mode without a scintilla of knowledge.

STFU.

[kmartin575]

Bob never heard of Tamba Hali until about February and now he is claiming that he is a better player right now than other starting DEs in the division.

You dont even watch college football. You've admitted that. Your completely ignorant on the topic (as usual).

You did the same thing last year. You hadn't even heard of Dustin Colquitt and right after the draft you were saying he was going to own and rape. Your such a ****ing ******. Croyle got picked, you immediately ran across the basement to your desk to pick up your Sporting News draft mag, tore out his picture and starting jacking off to it. There was no knowledge of anything, you just went into full homer mode without a scintilla of knowledge.

STFU.

I'm a Chiefs fan, but that was a pretty funny post. :rofl:

[Paladin]

Sadly, it is also true.

[Florida_Bronco]

Anything who says?

Anything YOU say.

When you come over here spouting your Pro-Chiefs garbage and your fellow Chief fan tells you that you are insane, that is saying something in my opinion.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Funny stuff. Maybe we can trade for Brown or Ekuban and dump this loser Hali.

[Florida_Bronco]

Funny stuff. Maybe we can trade for Brown or Ekuban and dump this loser Hali.

Funny you should mention Brown and Ekuban, since they were both 1st round picks who were highly thought of coming out of college and went to sub-par teams and as a result, didn't live up to expectations.

See the similarities here? Don't count your chickens before they hatch, Bob.

[Mediator12]

Funny stuff. Maybe we can trade for Brown or Ekuban and dump this loser Hali.

The funny thing about this statement is that Brown was a unanimous first pick in the draft from the same school that Hali came from. Brown was a can not miss prospect and Hali was not. However, you pencil him in as being better without ever seeing him play at this level :rofl:

[kmartin575]

Anything YOU say.

When you come over here spouting your Pro-Chiefs garbage and your fellow Chief fan tells you that you are insane, that is saying something in my opinion.

Here's a little something to think about. Not only do Broncos and Chiefs fans disagree sometimes, Chiefs fans disagree sometimes too. I think you are just trying to do whatever you can to discredit me but it isn't working.

[fontaine]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brncs_fan
How exactly do you place someone (Hali)who has never played a down of professional football over one of our DE's who does have playing time?

Because he's a better player.

And this is why inbreeding is just plain wrong people.

[Raider Bill]

id like to no how you no that Ms.cleo


I don't believe Mayor Quimby and John Shoop are going to be able to polish up a turd like Brooks. Gannon was always a good decisionmaker, Brooks is a mutt.

[fontaine]

I don't believe Mayor Quimby and John Shoop are going to be able to polish up a turd like Brooks. Gannon was always a good decisionmaker, Brooks is a mutt.

:rofl:

And I don't even know who the hell this "Mayor Quimby" guy is!

John Shoop the Poop is in Oakland? Holy sh*t. Your offense is fvcked.

[Florida_Bronco]

Here's a little something to think about. Not only do Broncos and Chiefs fans disagree sometimes, Chiefs fans disagree sometimes too. I think you are just trying to do whatever you can to discredit me but it isn't working.

You raise a good point, but there is one major flaw in it.

Us Bronco fans sure do disagree amongst ourselves here, however, if we were to go to a rivals message board, we'd sure present a united front. You, on the other hand, have other Chiefs fans here telling you that you are insane. What does that say about you and your takes?

As far as doing whatever I can to discredit you, you are doing that just fine on your own, thank you.

[redrage]

The funny thing about this statement is that Brown was a unanimous first pick in the draft from the same school that Hali came from. Brown was a can not miss prospect and Hali was not. However, you pencil him in as being better without ever seeing him play at this level :rofl:

So? Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter and Blair Thomas were all highly touted RB's from Penn State, yet the less touted one KC took low in the first round is turning out OK.

[Mediator12]

So? Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter and Blair Thomas were all highly touted RB's from Penn State, yet the less touted one KC took low in the first round is turning out OK.

Oh, I was unaware that Hali was going to run behind a Probowl Offensive Line ;D

The point is that ONLY a Homer is going to Anoint Hali being better than current Veterans at this point. I personally feel Hali is going to be a very good Player, but to count on a rookie being that good right now, fantasy. It took LJ three years to get his shot.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I personally feel Hali is going to be a very good Player, but to count on a rookie being that good right now, fantasy.

Being how good? Ekuban and Brown are average players with little in the way of pass-rushing skills. I'll go out on a limb right now and say Hali will have more sacks than either of those guys.

[redrage]

Oh, I was unaware that Hali was going to run behind a Probowl Offensive Line ;D

The point is that ONLY a Homer is going to Anoint Hali being better than current Veterans at this point. I personally feel Hali is going to be a very good Player, but to count on a rookie being that good right now, fantasy. It took LJ three years to get his shot.
Actually I was only trying to further the point that you can base the potential of a player on where they were drafted or how highly they were thought of coming out.

Personally, I was dissapointed with the pick. The dude looks like he is running in cement shoes from the highlights I saw.

[Raider Bill]

:rofl:

And I don't even know who the hell this "Mayor Quimby" guy is!

John Shoop the Poop is in Oakland? Holy sh*t. Your offense is fvcked.


Shoop is our QB coach. Mayor Quimby is our offensive coordinator (http://kffl.com/player/14094/NFL)

[delany]

Seriously. Here is a thought.

Instead of trying, oh so hard, to make the Chief players matchup and equal or better their Bronco counter-parts...why not wait until the Chiefs actually accomplish something?

According to this thread...The Chief's O is better than and the Chief's D is equal to Denvers' Do you see anything wrong with this concept?

Oh I know....it must be the coaching or GM that is holding the Chiefs back in the trival win/loss/playoff thing.

Wait that was supposedly fixed before....and before...

You Chief fans are like the little brother living in the shadow of the vastly superior older brother. All you seem to want to do is prove that you can hang with him.

I have no problem with Chief fans thinking they are heading in the right direction...that they are amped about a given new player..or coach....whatever.

But to look back on the recent past and try to compare the Chief teams to the Broncos to somehow justify the value of your team...is just down right silly.

No wonder the older brother gets tired and bored quickly when playing with his scrawny, much younger sibling.

[Florida_Bronco]

Being how good? Ekuban and Brown are average players with little in the way of pass-rushing skills. I'll go out on a limb right now and say Hali will have more sacks than either of those guys.

You're joking right? Little in the way of pass rushing skills?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

You're joking right? Little in the way of pass rushing skills?

You're right. They have NOTHING in the way of pass rushing skills.

[Florida_Bronco]

You're right. They have NOTHING in the way of pass rushing skills.

Keep digging Bobo :rofl:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Keep digging Bobo :rofl:

Keep digging? Your defensive ends are marginal players at best. No one is scared of them. I'm more frightened of John Lynch coming on a blitz.

[Tha rock]

I don't believe Mayor Quimby and John Shoop are going to be able to polish up a turd like Brooks. Gannon was always a good decisionmaker, Brooks is a mutt.



well will see about that all he needs to do is be consistent which he will under coach shell i mean come on he did it with jay shreder. shoop is the TE's coach now and the OC name is tom walsh who was also a football coach and not just a guy who ran the day spa and handled mayor duties. coach jim mcelwain from michigan state is the qb coach.

[Ballhawk]

Keep digging? Your defensive ends are marginal players at best. No one is scared of them. I'm more frightened of John Lynch coming on a blitz.
Funny, and last year it was they could not stop the run. The coaching staff thought they were so devoid of talent they chose to resign Warren, Brown and JE. Furthermore they did not draft a DE until round 4, not even our first pick of round 4. For all your ranting, KC had exactly 1 more sack than Denver had and was no where near as stout aginst the run.

Hali may be good or may not, but most scouts had him slipping to the 2nd round in a DE weak draft. Of course you will be back in a year eating crow like you have with Goonther and expect everyone to forget what an idiot you were/are.

[Florida_Bronco]

Keep digging? Your defensive ends are marginal players at best. No one is scared of them. I'm more frightened of John Lynch coming on a blitz.

I know I'm spitting in the wind here because you will just come back with some other idiotic statement, but what the heck.

Bob, our defensive line is far from marginal. They may not be All-Pros, but they are pretty darn good at what they do, which is occupying blockers so the linebackers can make plays, just FYI.

Don't confuse pass rushing ability with sacks, 90% of the time our D-line was getting pressure on the quarterback, they just need to learn to finish it.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I know I'm spitting in the wind here because you will just come back with some other idiotic statement, but what the heck.

Bob, our defensive line is far from marginal. They may not be All-Pros, but they are pretty darn good at what they do, which is occupying blockers so the linebackers can make plays, just FYI.

Don't confuse pass rushing ability with sacks, 90% of the time our D-line was getting pressure on the quarterback, they just need to learn to finish it.

Yeah, I'm not blind. Your defensive line looked pathetic in Kansas City. The Chiefs defensive line was able to "occupy blockers" at a similarly effective level (check out the yards per carry), but I'm not under any delusions there, either.

Courtney Brown and Ekuban are marginal players. There's just no way around it. Gerard Warren is the only guy on your defensive line that's worth two farts.

[Florida_Bronco]

Yeah, I'm not blind. Your defensive line looked pathetic in Kansas City. The Chiefs defensive line was able to "occupy blockers" at a similarly effective level (check out the yards per carry), but I'm not under any delusions there, either.

Courtney Brown and Ekuban are marginal players. There's just no way around it. Gerard Warren is the only guy on your defensive line that's worth two farts.

Do you think that one game in Kansas City makes or breaks our entire team? Did you see the rest of the games where our line was playing pretty darn well.

[Kaylore]

Personally, I was dissapointed with the pick. The dude looks like he is running in cement shoes from the highlights I saw.
One of my good Chief friends was so depressed about the draft that she wouldn't talk to me about it. She really knows her stuff and has direct connections to the team and about half of it's star players. She had watched some film of Hali and said that he played against average college level talent and didn't have the quickness or power to even play at the pro level. She was saying bust. I didn't watch the guy, so I have no idea.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Do you think that one game in Kansas City makes or breaks our entire team? Did you see the rest of the games where our line was playing pretty darn well.

I saw several of your games. Your defensive ends are nothing special. There's nothing that would bear out any other evaluation.

[redrage]

One of my good Chief friends was so depressed about the draft that she wouldn't talk to me about it. She really knows her stuff and has direct connections to the team and about half of it's star players. She had watched some film of Hali and said that he played against average college level talent and didn't have the quickness or power to even play at the pro level. She was saying bust. I didn't watch the guy, so I have no idea.

Well I have to admit I didn't watch the guy in college either. Although throughout the weeks leading up to the draft wehnever I would see highlights of the guy, he seemed smallish and slow. It's true that he does have a great motor, but most of the sack highlights I saw were coverage sacks that he didn't give up on. I hope my gut feeling is wrong.

This is in direct contrast to Derrick Johnson. The dude just exploded into the backfield. The speed, burst and talent were very apparent. I don't see it in Hali.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Hali had one of the better 10-yard times among the defensive ends in the draft. He's quick as a cat. I'm concerned about his size but we'll see. His measurables are better than Jared Allen's and we know how that worked out.

[Clockwork Orange]

Hali had one of the better 10-yard times among the defensive ends in the draft. He's quick as a cat. I'm concerned about his size but we'll see. His measurables are better than Jared Allen's and we know how that worked out.

Courtney Brown's measurables were pretty good too. Where did he go to school again?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Courtney Brown's measurables were pretty good too. Where did he go to school again?
Courtney Brown was great coming out of college. He was ruined by injuries. He's clearly lost what quickness he once had.

[Clockwork Orange]

Courtney Brown was great coming out of college. He was ruined by injuries. He's clearly lost what quickness he once had.

I know, just pointing out similarities. I like Hali and thought it was a good pick. Hell, I was defending him to some of your fellow Chef fans on the draft day thread right after he was selected.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I know, just pointing out similarities. I like Hali and thought it was a good pick. Hell, I was defending him to some of your fellow Chef fans on the draft day thread right after he was selected.

Shoot, some morons wanted us to take Manny Lawson. That would have been an awful selection.

[kmartin575]

Seriously. Here is a thought.

Instead of trying, oh so hard, to make the Chief players matchup and equal or better their Bronco counter-parts...why not wait until the Chiefs actually accomplish something?

According to this thread...The Chief's O is better than and the Chief's D is equal to Denvers' Do you see anything wrong with this concept?

Oh I know....it must be the coaching or GM that is holding the Chiefs back in the trival win/loss/playoff thing.

Wait that was supposedly fixed before....and before...

You Chief fans are like the little brother living in the shadow of the vastly superior older brother. All you seem to want to do is prove that you can hang with him.

I have no problem with Chief fans thinking they are heading in the right direction...that they are amped about a given new player..or coach....whatever.

But to look back on the recent past and try to compare the Chief teams to the Broncos to somehow justify the value of your team...is just down right silly.

No wonder the older brother gets tired and bored quickly when playing with his scrawny, much younger sibling.

I don't think anyone believes our defense is as good as yours. We just feel that our talent level on defense can compare to Denver's.

[kmartin575]

I know I'm spitting in the wind here because you will just come back with some other idiotic statement, but what the heck.

Bob, our defensive line is far from marginal. They may not be All-Pros, but they are pretty darn good at what they do, which is occupying blockers so the linebackers can make plays, just FYI.

Don't confuse pass rushing ability with sacks, 90% of the time our D-line was getting pressure on the quarterback, they just need to learn to finish it.

That's the biggest excuse ever. Why did you lose the AFC Championship game? Your defensive line was bad enough that you had to blitz to get pressure and Roethlisberger picked you apart.

[fontaine]

Shoop is our QB coach. Mayor Quimby is our offensive coordinator (http://kffl.com/player/14094/NFL)

That's ok I guess.

Making sure Walter, Brooks have fresh towels and fresh jocks is about as much responsibility as I would entrust Shoop with.

This Mayor Quimby guy sounds interesting. Has been out of football for a while you say. The raiders sure know how to pick 'em.

Still it worked with Gibbs bringing back his old hogs OL philosophy and coach so who knows.

[Raider Bill]

That's ok I guess.

Making sure Walter, Brooks have fresh towels and fresh jocks is about as much responsibility as I would entrust Shoop with.

This Mayor Quimby guy sounds interesting. Has been out of football for a while you say. The raiders sure know how to pick 'em.

Still it worked with Gibbs bringing back his old hogs OL philosophy and coach so who knows.


Shoop got demoted apparently, he's now the TE coach. Our QB coach is from Michigan state or something.

I like our OL coaches though. Jackie Slater and Irv Eatman (former Chiefs asst OL coach)

[NYBronc]

Jay Goldberg's analysis is posted. He has good insight.

http://www.900footballlinks.net/chiefsframe.htm

Rd Sel# Player Pos. Ht. Wt. School Jay's ranking Jay's draft value
1 20 Hali, Tamba DE 6-3 275 Penn State # 7 DE Round 2
2 54 Pollard, Bernard SS 6-2 223 Purdue # 5 SS Round 3
3 85 Croyle, Brodie QB 6-3 204 Alabama # 4 QB Round 2
5 154 Maxey, Marcus CB 6-2 197 Miami (Fla.) # 16 CB Round 4
6 186 Stallings, Tre' G 6-3 315 Mississippi > Round 4
6 190 Webb, Jeff WR 6-2 201 San Diego State # 9 WR Round 3
7 228 Page, Jarrad SS 6-0 220 UCLA Late Round Value > Round 4
FA Howard, DeArrius RB 5-11 229 Arkansas #14 RB Round 4
FA Ross, Derrick RB 5-11 226 Tarleton State Late Round Value > Round 4
FA Hannon, Chris WR 6-3 207 Tennessee Late Round Value > Round 4
FA Morris, Derrick OT 6-5 332 North Carolina State # 15 OT Round 4
FA Guillory, Brandon DE 6-4 253 La-Monroe Late Round Value > Round 4
FA Kershaw, William OLB 6-3 240 Maryland Late Round Value > Round 4


KC Chiefs 2006 COLLEGE DRAFT REPORT CARD - B
by Jay Goldberg

The Chiefs reached for their first two picks in the draft, then made up for those reaches with excellent picks in round three, five, and six (second selection). They also followed up the draft by signing one of the best groups of college street free agents in the league.

Hali is an interesting case. Based on film and production, this former defensive tackle was considered a middle first round pick. After his horrible workout, he dropped on some teams' draft boards (and mine as well). At draft time I had a late second round grade on Hali. Why? What worries me is that Hali tested with below average speed and quickness, and lifted more like a defensive back (18 benches), than like a defensive lineman. With this combination, it's hard to imagine Hali being a sack machine in the NFL. He won't be able to beat offensive lineman consistently with quick moves, with speed around the corner, or with bull moves. In fact, my round two grade is because I believe if Hali gains weight, he can be a very good anchor against the run, and with his hustle get 5 or so sacks a year. That's a solid player, but not a first round pick. By the way, how nice would WR Chris Jackson have looked in a Chiefs' uniform if picked in round one?

The Pollard pick I chalk up to new coach Edwards not having lived with the Chiefs' defense the last couple of years. While I had a third round grade on Pollard, so he was a bit of a reach here, the head-scratching part of this pick is that it makes sense more as a long term move (rebuilding the safety position) than as a move to get to the Super Bowl this year (getting the best safety to plug in to the current defense now). That is not because Pollard won't be the best strong safety on Chiefs' roster at some point this year. It is because he has the exact same weakness as the current Chiefs' starting safeties, he is not good in pass coverage. In fact, allowing for a reach in round one (as the Chiefs' did with Hali in my opinion) to come away with a safety and defensive end, I think the combination of Bullocks (a fast safety who can cover and hit) and Tapp (a defensive end who plays the run well; I project as 7 to 9 sack a year player; and a player with the all-out motor and high character of Hali) would have been better than Hali and Pollard.

Now onto some great picks. I had Croyle rated closer to Cutler than to Clemens, Jackson, and Whitehurst all of whom were selected ahead of Croyle. That will turn out to be big mistakes by those teams. The risk with Croyle is that he gets hurt too much. However, he will have a couple of years to intern behind Trent Green and work out to get his body stronger. Croyle is a great leader, has a big arm, can make all the throws, has good mobility in the pocket, has tremendous character, and has the look of a big-time winning NFL quarterback. I also see a quick bond between Green and Croyle because of the high character both possess, which will result in Green taking the kid under his wings to help him develop. On the football field, I see no chance of Croyle not being a top flight NFL quarterback. The trick may be keeping him healthy enough to stay on the field. A great and perfect (my first time using that word to describe a pick) selection, especially as a third round pick.

The Chiefs followed up the Croyle pick with another good choice. I had a fourth round grade on Maxey. If he had more experience starting at Miami (played behind some good corners until his senior year), his tools would have been more advanced, and Maxey could have been in the mix to be selected in the second round. At 6'1.4" with a 42.5" vertical jump, and 4.4 speed, Maxey is made to cover tall receivers. Add to that that Maxey has good cover skills and lifted the bar almost as many times as first round pick DE Hali, and the Chiefs' look like they have a real keeper in Maxey. However, Maxey got beat a little too much in college and needs work on technique, and a better understanding of how to play cornerback. It is the game film of him getting beat that had him fall in the draft, but the fact he was only a one-year starter who could get by on his athleticism alone at Miami gives lots of hope that he can develop not only in a solid corner, but into a top tier starting corner. A great get by the Chiefs. After the discouraging words at the top, Chief fans must have liked my comments on their last two picks.

That trend stops with Stallings. It was questionable to me whether Stalling would even get drafted. He played tackle in college but projects to guard in the NFL. While he is a smart kid, he is limited athletically, and could wind up on the Chiefs' practice squad. Matua or Montgomery would have been my pick at guard at this spot in the draft.

To continue the back-and-forth nature of the Chiefs' draft, Webb was a steal in round six. I had a third round grade on Webb, who was my 9th rated wide receiver in the draft. Webb has good size, excellent speed and nice quickness. He was also a productive receiver at San Diego State catching 92 balls for over 1,100 yards and 10 touchdowns his senior year. Many draft analysts downgraded Webb, first because they thought he lacked speed, and later, after he ran a 4.4 forty because they said he didn't play to his speed. My analysis was different. Webb has good speed and quickness, can get open and catch the ball, but doesn't get YAC. Moving from being a big fish in a little pond, to a small fish in a big pond will allow his new teammates to apply pressure on Webb to add some muscle and not go down on first contact.

Page was a solid choice in round seven, however, he is another safety whose weakness is in pass coverage. Page has the mentality of a strong safety, but does not always wrap up when tackling, and the skill set and playmaking mind set to be a free safety, but lacks the aforementioned cover skills. In some ways he reminds me a bit of Greg Wesley. At worst case, Page will help on special teams.

The Chiefs did a great job signing quality college street free agents. Howard is a very underrated running back. I had a fourth round grade on him and believe he can be a feature back in the NFL in the right system. Worst case Howard can be that season-saving back who can get the job done very effectively if a starter is injured, but is not a back a team wants long term because he lacks game-changing ability. Examples are Nick Goings and Antowain Smith. Howard is very strong, is effective running inside, and has good speed for a man his size. Ross was rated higher on most draft analysts boards than Howard (but obviously not on mine). Ross could be in a battle with Howard for the last running back spot on the Chiefs' roster. Ross has the potential to be a standout short-yardage and goal-line back. However, with Larry Johnson already effective in those roles (and all others), Howard, who can also provide backup for those roles, but has upside as an every down back, could have the upper hand in that battle.

The signing of WR Chris Hannon was a perfect move for both the Chiefs and the player. Hannon has a tremendous upside, and just as large a downside. Three or four years down the road he could be a game breaking starting wide receiver, or he could be out of the league. Hannon underachieved at school, but 6'3" receivers that run 4.37 forties, have good hands, and are good athletes don't grow on trees. Hannon needs coaching, but has the raw skills with which to work. Worst case this year, Hannon will be a priority talent on the Chiefs' practice squad. Morris was another excellent free agent signed by the Chiefs. I had a fourth round grade on this monster of a man, and it was a head-scratcher to me that he didn't at least get drafted late on day two. Morris is strong, tough to deal with on the field, has long arms, and a solid base. He wasn't a day one prospect because he needs better conditioning so he doesn't get tired and sloppy on the field, and needs to keep his weight in check. However, he was a player I thought a team would be salivating to bring into camp, give tough love to, and turn into a rock solid starter. The fact that the Chiefs, with their history of high caliber offensive line play, was the team that signed him, makes me feel I didn't miss the boat on Morris' potential. Morris was also effective batting down field goal attempts in college. Guillory is a good athlete who played linebacker, wide receiver, and defensive end in college. For a man his size, Guillory has excellent speed to go with good athletic ability. He should shine on special teams, and could be a unique role player who provides a pass a rush in nickel defenses, and is used as a blocking tight end in goal line formations who can also sneak into the end zone to make a catch. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Guillory will have to prove himself on special teams and make the roster before specialty roles are created for him. Lastly, linebacker William Kershaw has a chance to stick as a versatile backup and special teams player. Kershaw is instinctive but needs to be able to transfer his athletic ability better to the football field. His skills translate best to SAM, but he could be a backup at WILL as well.

[Kaylore]

Hali had one of the better 10-yard times among the defensive ends in the draft. He's quick as a cat. LOL Bob loves to completely substitute his own reality. Everyone who's watched this kid says he lumbers.

Here's one analyst.
What worries me is that Hali tested with below average speed and quickness
Here's another

His timed speed is nothing to get excited about...Lacks a wide variety of pass rush moves...Has short arms and doesn't use his hands well
One more, to rub it in.

He doesn’t have the quickest reactions, but good enough to make plays.
This is what I like to read.

He will still struggle even at the end position if a team decides to run right at him.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Quote from Carl:

"When you watch the video he doesn't look like a 4.8 guy. His 10-yard time is as good as any defensive lineman, and that's what we look at. He's always chasing people down from behind, knocking the ball loose from running backs, quarterbacks and receivers.''

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Kaylore, all those guys were talking about his 40 time.

[Kaylore]

Kaylore, all those guys were talking about his 40 time.
"quickest reactions" doesn't mean 40 time Bob. And when quickness is listed after speed as two sepperate things, they aren't talking about 40 time.

And explain to me how "as good as any defensive lineman" equals "as quick as a cat." Maybe a big fat-ass cat.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Look, Tamba Hali doesn't lack quickness. He had better measurables than Jared Allen, who is plenty quick. At this point you are just trying to bust on our first-round pick.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

From NFL.com:

Hali is a competitive player who consistently makes plays through sheer effort and determination. He is a very good athlete with the quick feet to accelerate to full speed in a flash and can chase down ball carriers in backside pursuit with ease.

Basically, you can probably find anything to support your premise. I've seen several scouting reports on Brodie Croyle that said he lacked arm strength.

[Tha rock]

Shoop got demoted apparently, he's now the TE coach. Our QB coach is from Michigan state or something.

I like our OL coaches though. Jackie Slater and Irv Eatman (former Chiefs asst OL coach)



demoted he still wouldnt be on the tea if that happend our TE's sucked so we had to get a new coach there. coach mac is pretty good coach from what im hearing to. i really like our new DB's coach our LB's coach has been damn good when he gets LB's to work with i cant wait to see thomas howard this season.

[Kaylore]

Look, Tamba Hali doesn't lack quickness. He had better measurables than Jared Allen, who is plenty quick. At this point you are just trying to bust on our first-round pick. Not at all. I've just heard from more than one source that they have issues with the kid's quickness. You don't need to cry fowl if I point out that Hali isn't the Julius Peppers athlete you are making him out to be.

If anyone is trying to skew what someone is it's you in here declaring every player you pick is going to Canton. I mean a third round QB with bad knees is the next Montana? Don't talk to me about mis-representing player talent.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Not at all. I've just herad from more than one source that they have issues with the kid's quickness. You don't need to cry fowl if I point out that Hali isn't the Julius Peppers athelete you are making him out to be.

If anyone is trying to skew what someone is it's you in here declaring every player you pick is going to Canton. I mean a third round QB with bad knees is the next Montana? Don't talk to me about mis-representing player talent.

Whatever. Hali is plenty quick. He is the quickest defensive lineman on our roster.

[Kaylore]

Whatever. Hali is plenty quick. He is the quickest defensive lineman on our roster.
Then I'm very excited.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Then I'm very excited.

I take issue with the fact that you said I "create my own reality." It's simply not true. You went LOOKING for scouting reports that tore down Hali.

[Kaylore]

I take issue with the fact that you said I "create my own reality." It's simply not true. You went LOOKING for scouting reports that tore down Hali.
Actually I typed "T A M B A H A L I" into google and clicked enter. I then scrolled down to the links that were draft reports and posted them in turn. I seriously went down one at a time.

Here try it yourself:
http://www.google.com

The only one that I didn't take from Google was this one which was posted earlier in the thread.

http://www.900footballlinks.net/chiefsframe.htm

For crying out loud, quit pouting that your defensive end isn't quick, jeez. People have had worse problems.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Actually I typed "T A M B A H A L I" into google and clicked enter. I then scrolled down to the links that were draft reports and posted them in turn. I seriously went down one at a time.

Here try it yourself:
http://www.google.com

The only one that I didn't take from Google was this one which was posted earlier in the thread.

http://www.900footballlinks.net/chiefsframe.htm

For crying out loud, quit pouting that your defensive end isn't quick, jeez. People have had worse problems.

He's quick according to the people I talked to that attended mini-camp this past weekend. Don't accuse me of making crap up. I do not "create my own reality."

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The first two results from google pretty much crap all over your premise. You were being selective...you reverse-engineered your statement.

"Very quick off the ball...Is real explosive with an excellent closing burst."

"He is a very good athlete with the quick feet to accelerate to full speed in a flash and can chase down ball carriers in backside pursuit with ease."

[Kaylore]

He's quick according to the people I talked to that attended mini-camp this past weekend. Don't accuse me of making crap up. I do not "create my own reality."
Hilarious! You're doing it right now about not creating your own reality. Bob, did you ever wonder why we gave you the name "information minister?" Did you ever wonder why we all think it's funny and quite appropriate?

You'll believe everything possitive you hear about Hali and dismiss everything negative. In your mind he's probably the next Deacon Jones by now.

[Kaylore]

The first two results from google pretty much crap all over your premise. You were being selective...you reverse-engineered your statement.

"Very quick off the ball...Is real explosive with an excellent closing burst."

"He is a very good athlete with the quick feet to accelerate to full speed in a flash and can chase down ball carriers in backside pursuit with ease."
Explosive off the ball isn't quickness, Bob. I never said that he didn't get off the ball well, but you can post other things and tell me they're quickness if it makes you feel better.

Scroll down to negatives.

The conversation that began (before you flew in and asserted he was "quick as a cat") was with people knocking him for lacking quickness. Almost all of the negative rewiews nail him for three things every time: Poor use of of hands, lack of quickness, undersized.

That's a fact.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7425/khaaan8np.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

[Kaylore]

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7425/khaaan8np.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
You can't get away, Bob.

[Tha rock]

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7425/khaaan8np.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!



just face it bob kalore is right on this one

[Man-Goblin]

Explosive off the ball isn't quickness, Bob. I never said that he didn't get off the ball well, but you can post other things and tell me they're quickness if it makes you feel better.

Scroll down to negatives.

The conversation that began (before you flew in and asserted he was "quick as a cat") was with people knocking him for lacking quickness. Almost all of the negative rewiews nail him for three things every time: Poor use of of hands, lack of quickness, undersized.

That's a fact.

Hey now, a lot of people around here wanted him; when the Broncos had the 29th pick.

[The Lone Bolt]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

Phil has character and smarts. He's a dedicated student of the game and a leader on the field. And he has the quickest release since Marino. If anything he will be better than Brees.

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

Probably. I'm very impressed with this kid. May be the next Earl Campbell.

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

Don't think so, but we'll see.

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???

Brooks sucks and if anything will suck even worse as a rayduh.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

he has the quickest release since Marino.



Really? Even with that horrible throwing motion?

[Clockwork Orange]

Hey now, a lot of people around here wanted him; when the Broncos had the 29th pick.

I would have been happy taking him with the 15th pick.

[Kaylore]

Really? Even with that horrible throwing motion?
I'm with Bob. That horrible motion is pretty darn slow. Lynch was able to swat his throw down in the last San Diego game pre-release it was so slow.

I've watched some footage of him and he looks like he's throwing shot-puts. There is a lot of wasted motion in his throws. I'm not sold on Rivers.

[Clockwork Orange]

Bernie Kosar lasted a long time in the NFL and was fairly successful despite an odd throwing motion.

[The Lone Bolt]

I'm with Bob. That horrible motion is pretty darn slow. Lynch was able to swat his throw down in the last San Diego game pre-release it was so slow.

I've watched some footage of him and he looks like he's throwing shot-puts. There is a lot of wasted motion in his throws. I'm not sold on Rivers.

I don't know where you get this. That ball leaves in a hurry!

[Kaylore]

Bernie Kosar lasted a long time in the NFL and was fairly successful despite an odd throwing motion.
Kosar was the exception to just about every rule in the NFL.

[Kaylore]

I don't know where you get this. That ball leaves in a hurry! I don't know where you get saying it's the fastest since Marino.

Here's a clip from him in the Tangerine Bowl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8eJdIT4YcU&search=philip%20rivers

He's fast in his short throws, but In every throw over ten yards he reels and leans into the throw. His whole torso moves. It's not the fastest release by any stretch of the imagination.

[Kaylore]

Here's another hilight video. It's good because it breaks down each pass. The following throws have a slow release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ost8w2pp-fg&search=philip%20rivers

1,2 (Two is a really good one to look at because it slows it down and you can see him shot put it.)5, 8, 19 (almost gets knocked down by lynch again), 24.

All those throws were 15+ yards. If he was chucking it 60 yards every time, I'd totally excuse it.

He is accurate and has some idea of where he wants to go with the ball, though.

If you want, you can read what I thought of all the AFC West young'uns right here.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1097737#post1097737

[Bob's your Information Minister]

It's almost like he's winding up....definitely not a fast release. But these are Chargers fans we're talking about...

[Kaylore]

It's almost like he's winding up....definitely not a fast release. But these are Chargers fans we're talking about...
See, that's what I'm saying. Wind up is probably the best word for it. It's only on the longer throws, but it's defnitely nothing remotely close to Marino.

[Phantom]

Quote from Carl:

"When you watch the video he doesn't look like a 4.8 guy. His 10-yard time is as good as any defensive lineman, and that's what we look at. He's always chasing people down from behind, knocking the ball loose from running backs, quarterbacks and receivers.''

Gotta admit, he is a perfect fit. Ha!

[maher_tyler]

Im not, he is very streaky and prone to make mistakes. He had a good Oline Duece, Joe Horn and others. That offense was more stacked IMO than the Raiders are.
i would agree with that

[Tha rock]

Brooks sucks and if anything will suck even worse as a rayduh.



phil wont do anything and you will get to know brooks sparkler fan

[Raider Bill]

Brooks and Ty Detmer are the 2 guys Ron Wolf missed on.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Release point isn't an issue. Vision is. If you can't see the field, and the play develop, you limit your options. Plenty of short QBs can throw over the line, they simply can't see who's open.

Rivers won't have any more batted balls than Plummer, Green, or Brooks. Take it to the bank.

[SoCalBronco]

Fear the Mullet. ****ing fear it.

[sirhcyennek81]

watching an argument between a charger fan and a raider fan is about as fascinating as watching a peruvian circus midget, wearing a helmet and mickey mouse shorts ride a tricycle right off a cliff.

:Broncos:

[NW Bolt Fan]

Some looming Questions about the AFC West.

Can Phillip Rivers become a good Qb or will he become (which I hope) gasp...
Ryan Leaf Jr???

Can Larry Johnson handle the workload now that he wont be suprising anybody anymore???

Can Herm Edwards teach his defenders how to defend???

Will AAron Brooks be the Brooks of old???
Personally, I think PRs adjustment period will be his adversary to success in the NFL. I DO NOT think he'll be any worse off than Brees. Surrounded by a pretty good team, he only needs to manage, and the front half of the schedule (learning period) is friendlier than the second.

Johnson is a stud, with or without KC's beasty line. He'll do JUST fine, and I'd be tempted to take him over LT in fantasy...

Loved Edwards as a coach in NYC. He's got mad passion, and it translates to his players. However, Vermeil was a fine coach in his own regard, and St. Louis went consistently down hill once his fingerprints were gone. I'd say Edwards improves the D, but the O may suffer a bit, and they'll remain about where they were.

Aaron Brooks is simply not good. Not much more to say there. Was LOVING that the turds picked him up, and the ineptitude will continue.

[sirhcyennek81]

wow...tough division. have the raiders and their high powered offense...err...and the chiefs, who have made the playoffs once in the last 6 years...and the chargers...the best 3rd place team never to make the playoffs ever...Broncos better worry...uhh...


:Broncos:

[NW Bolt Fan]

phil wont do anything and you will get to know brooks sparkler fan
Already know Brooks. Couldn't be happier you replaced one loser with another.

[SureShot]

[QUOTE=broncohaven]Which half is that going to be in Bob?
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[SureShot]

He was the most highest rated linebacker to come out of college in recent years and he has much more talent than D.J. Williams
Wow he must be super really good!:rofl:

[SureShot]

LE: Chiefs (Hali)
LDT: Chiefs (Sims)
RDT: Broncos (Warren)
RE: Chiefs (Allen)

L0LB: Chiefs (Derrick Johnson)
MLB: Broncos (Wilson)
ROLB: Broncos (Gold)

CB: Chiefs (Surtain)
CB: Broncos (Bailey)

FS: Broncos (Lynch)
SS: Chiefs (Knight)

The Chiefs have the edge in starters (6 vs 5).

Broncos have the edge in depth at corner at linebacker.

Chiefs have the edge in depth along the defensive line and at safety.

It's about even. The Broncos have had the edge in coaching staff, which naturally is a huge advantage.


Unfortunately for you this is not baseball. You could have 11 of the 11, but that wouldn't make you the better TEAM. Its team defence, you don't always have to beat the man in front of you if you read and react in position.

We have the advantage of actually doing it.

Denver K.C.
2005 15 25 DEF RANK
2004 4 31
2003 4 29
2002 6 32

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Unfortunately for you this is not baseball. You could have 11 of the 11, but that wouldn't make you the better TEAM. Its team defence, you don't always have to beat the man in front of you if you read and react in position.

We have the advantage of actually doing it.

Denver K.C.
2005 15 25 DEF RANK
2004 4 31
2003 4 29
2002 6 32

Way to miss the point, moron. At no point did I say the Chiefs had a better defense.

[SoCalBronco]

He was the most highest rated linebacker to come out of college in recent years and he has much more talent than D.J. Williams

Says the poster who thought so much of KMart as to put him in his username.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

most highest?

You sound like a dumbass.

[Raider Bill]

Fear the Mullet. ****ing fear it.


You're goddam right
+
http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/IHNIANAHCABH/2006-mcquistan-playerbio.jpg

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I really can't stand looking at that guy.

[SoCalBronco]

I really can't stand looking at that guy.

And you call yourself a Chiefs fan? WTF.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

And you call yourself a Chiefs fan? WTF.

Mullets are ****ing stupid.

[SoCalBronco]

Mullets are ****ing stupid.

No wonder you're reviled on the Planet.

[SureShot]

Way to miss the point, moron. At no point did I say the Chiefs had a better defense.

Then what is the point of mentioning how good these guys are?

[Kaylore]

You're goddam right
+
http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/IHNIANAHCABH/2006-mcquistan-playerbio.jpg
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Yikes!

[sirhcyennek81]

You're goddam right
+
http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/IHNIANAHCABH/2006-mcquistan-playerbio.jpg


Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Bob's mother...:thanku:

:Broncos:

[Tha rock]

Already know Brooks. Couldn't be happier you replaced one loser with another.



your kidding right?

[Tha rock]

Brooks and Ty Detmer are the 2 guys Ron Wolf missed on.



i dont under stand whats with you and brooks but hes a damn good qb and hes started and went in the playoffs what the hell has detmer done??

[Florida_Bronco]

i dont under stand whats with you and brooks but hes a damn good qb and hes started and went in the playoffs what the hell has detmer done??

Let's just hope Brooks continues to perform at the same high level he has played at when previously facing the Broncos. ;)

[Kaylore]

Let's just hope Brooks continues to perform at the same high level he has played at when previously facing the Broncos. ;)
Some favorite plays of the Bronco defenders came off of Aaron Brooks.

Al Wilson's first int for a touchdown.

Champ Bailey's best interception of his career.

YAY For AARON BROOKS!

[Tha rock]

Let's just hope Brooks continues to perform at the same high level he has played at when previously facing the Broncos. ;)




didnt he have a good game against you guys before?? all he needs to do is just play like he did before this last season and hes cool.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

didnt he have a good game against you guys before?? all he needs to do is just play like he did before this last season and hes cool.

You don't seem to understand that you replaced Collins with another guy who has a million dollar arm and a ten-cent head. You can't win with those guys in this league.

[Florida_Bronco]

didnt he have a good game against you guys before?? all he needs to do is just play like he did before this last season and hes cool.

Yeah he had a good game against us before....good for us anyways :rofl:

[Florida_Bronco]

Some favorite plays of the Bronco defenders came off of Aaron Brooks.

Al Wilson's first int for a touchdown.

Champ Bailey's best interception of his career.

YAY For AARON BROOKS!

Don't forget the 2000 or 2001 season game in New Orleans either (the one where Mike Anderson ran for 250+yards) where Eric Brown, Jimmy Spencer and someone else all got interceptions off of poorly thrown passes.

[NW Bolt Fan]

i dont under stand whats with you and brooks but hes a damn good qb and hes started and went in the playoffs what the hell has detmer done??
Forget Detmer. How 'bout Kerry? He went to the SUPERBOWL, but by your own admission, that didn't help the turds out much last year... And you think Brooks is going to be the answer?

The guy threw the ball backwards a couple years back in SD when he was getting pressured. 10x, no 100x worse play than the fake's left handed toss.

[Tha rock]

You don't seem to understand that you replaced Collins with another guy who has a million dollar arm and a ten-cent head. You can't win with those guys in this league.




thats why you have to make your O-line and caoching better so that way hes consistent.

[Tha rock]

Forget Detmer. How 'bout Kerry? He went to the SUPERBOWL, but by your own admission, that didn't help the turds out much last year... And you think Brooks is going to be the answer?

The guy threw the ball backwards a couple years back in SD when he was getting pressured. 10x, no 100x worse play than the fake's left handed toss.


your are an idiot the guy puts up huge numbers that collins can never do there is a reason no one has picked him up yet also. collins rhode tiki and there D. how do you know brooks cant be the ansewr sparkler you just mad your team keeps getting worser.

[sirhcyennek81]

your are an idiot the guy puts up huge numbers tuff that collins can never do there is a reason no one has picked him up yet also. collins rhode tiki and there D. how do you know brooks cant be the ansewr sparkler you just mad your team keeps getting worser.



Somewhere, every single English teacher you had is getting a massive headache.

:Broncos:

[Tha rock]

Somewhere, every single English teacher you had is getting a massive headache.

:Broncos:






:wiggle: great

[Ballhawk]

Some favorite plays of the Bronco defenders came off of Aaron Brooks.

Al Wilson's first int for a touchdown.

Champ Bailey's best interception of his career.

YAY For AARON BROOKS!

That INT was sick!! Still cant believe he got his feet down. One of the most athletic plays I have ever seen.

[The Lone Bolt]

Here's another hilight video. It's good because it breaks down each pass. The following throws have a slow release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ost8w2pp-fg&search=philip%20rivers

1,2 (Two is a really good one to look at because it slows it down and you can see him shot put it.)5, 8, 19 (almost gets knocked down by lynch again), 24.

All those throws were 15+ yards. If he was chucking it 60 yards every time, I'd totally excuse it.

He is accurate and has some idea of where he wants to go with the ball, though.

If you want, you can read what I thought of all the AFC West young'uns right here.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1097737#post1097737


Funny your perceptions don't seem to be shared by knowledgable profesionals:

Kiper and others often compare Rivers to former Cleveland Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar, who also had a low release point on passes and tended to sling it. But Kansas coach Mark Mangino said Rivers' throwing style reminds him of Dan Marino, the former Miami Dolphins star.

"Yeah, he's unorthodox, but he's got the best release I've seen since Marino," Mangino said. "Rivers is big, he's strong, he's intelligent. He moves well in the pocket, can get away from people and has that quick, quick release.

http://www.kusports.com/news/football/story/108920

Rivers is smart and a football junkie. He's 6-5, 229, and while he may have an unorthodox throwing motion – criticism "has gradually decreased," he said – and not the strongest arm available, he makes up for it with the quickest release since Dan Marino. He can make all necessary throws, and he's terribly accurate, completing 72 percent of his attempts last year. Starting an NCAA-record 51 consecutive games at NC State, he threw 1,710 passes and was intercepted only 34 times.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040425/news_1s25canepa.html

Rivers made good decisions and seamlessly worked his way through drills in his first few practices. Teammates were impressed. Schottenheimer compared his quick release to that of Dan Marino, a man who was famous for shooting the ball out of the pocket like a cannon.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/San+Diego/Features/2004/modglin082604.htm

The love-or-hate relationship continues with North Carolina State QB Philip Rivers. Where he will be drafted seems like one of the biggest mysteries in this year’s draft. Some scouts project he will go as high as the second round, while others cringe seeing him in person and find it difficult to imagine him commanding a franchise with his unorthodox throwing motion. Like Bernie Kosar, scouts say he gets rid of the ball quickly and is very accurate but looks ugly doing it. Other scouts say he has the quickest release since Dan Marino.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Senior+Bowl/2004/notebook012004.htm


But I guess all of these sports writers and coaches just don't know what they're talking about, right? I'm sure your "expert opinion" is much better than theirs.::)

I think you may just have a poor sample in these clips.

[Tha rock]

Funny your perceptions don't seem to be shared by knowledgable profesionals:



http://www.kusports.com/news/football/story/108920



http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040425/news_1s25canepa.html



http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/San+Diego/Features/2004/modglin082604.htm



http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Senior+Bowl/2004/notebook012004.htm


But I guess al of these sports writers and coaches just don't know what they're talking about, right? I'm sure your "expert opinion" is much better than theirs.::)

I think you may just have a poor sample in these clips.



river chick is still whack

[Kaylore]

Funny your perceptions don't seem to be shared by knowledgable profesionals:



http://www.kusports.com/news/football/story/108920



http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040425/news_1s25canepa.html



http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/San+Diego/Features/2004/modglin082604.htm



http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Senior+Bowl/2004/notebook012004.htm


But I guess all of these sports writers and coaches just don't know what they're talking about, right? I'm sure your "expert opinion" is much better than theirs.::)

I think you may just have a poor sample in these clips.
Hey, I can only say what I see. You want to tell me when he winds up like a pitcher that that is fast, the go right ahead. All I know is his "fast" release didn't stop Lynch from knocking the ball away. I posted videos of him throwing and anyone can see that those throws come out slow.

[Kaylore]

Don't forget the 2000 or 2001 season game in New Orleans either (the one where Mike Anderson ran for 250+yards) where Eric Brown, Jimmy Spencer and someone else all got interceptions off of poorly thrown passes.
I wanted to focus on current players against Brooks, but you're right that we play well against the Saints.

[Kaylore]

That INT was sick!! Still cant believe he got his feet down. One of the most athletic plays I have ever seen.
Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMW0WfVE6E&search=Champ%20Bailey

Two minutes into the highlight reel.

[Tha rock]

Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMW0WfVE6E&search=Champ%20Bailey

Two minutes into the highlight reel.

what AB will do in oakland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqjSB6wxJ2E&search=Aaron%20Brooks
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4Gs5USLtg&search=Aaron%20Brooks)

[NW Bolt Fan]

your are an idiot the guy puts up huge numbers that collins can never do there is a reason no one has picked him up yet also. collins rhode tiki and there D. how do you know brooks cant be the ansewr sparkler you just mad your team keeps getting worser.
D'oh. You got me- Bolts definitely getting worser.

Brooks just rode Deuce, and relied on their D... In choketown, he'll ride Lamar, and rely on their D.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Hey, I can only say what I see. You want to tell me when he winds up like a pitcher that that is fast, the go right ahead. All I know is his "fast" release didn't stop Lynch from knocking the ball away. I posted videos of him throwing and anyone can see that those throws come out slow.
Personally, I don't see his release as similar to Marino's, but I'm quite sure Dan had a few balls knocked out of his hand. Has nothing to do with the speed of his release. One thing you can't argue- his release is faster than Brees' was. Remains to be seen whether his decisions on the field, are worse, equal, or better than Drew's.

[Tha rock]

D'oh. You got me- Bolts definitely getting worser.

Brooks just rode Deuce, and relied on their D... In choketown, he'll ride Lamar, and rely on their D.


deuce was always hurt and you dont ride your rb and throw 28tds, bolts are getting worser.

[2KBack]

deuce was always hurt and you dont ride your rb and throw 28tds, bolts are getting worser.

Brooks has never thrown 28 TDs, and if you are referring the the 27 in 2002, you should note that Duece had 1400 yds and 13 tds that same year.

[Florida_Bronco]

Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMW0WfVE6E&search=Champ%20Bailey

Two minutes into the highlight reel.

I love the music from Black Hawk Down, my favorite movie :thumbsup:

[Man-Goblin]

I'm one that sees similarities between Plummer and Brooks, in not only their stats (Brooks to current, Plummer w/ AZ), but their skill sets.

I honestly think Brooks could be a good QB in the right system with a good coach that can corral him a bit. It worked for Jake, and he's got a good set of WRs up there...

[XXXshogunXXX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4Gs5USLtg&search=brooks%20qb

Heres a good video of brooks and his sharp release, pinpoint accuracy, and an awesome trajectory that rivals the greats.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I'm one that sees similarities between Plummer and Brooks, in not only their stats (Brooks to current, Plummer w/ AZ), but their skill sets.

I honestly think Brooks could be a good QB in the right system with a good coach that can corral him a bit. It worked for Jake, and he's got a good set of WRs up there...
Jake was a good QB on a bad team in AZ. Brooks was a bad QB on a bad team. Nothing's changed. If anything, he dragged NO down...

[NW Bolt Fan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4Gs5USLtg&search=brooks%20qb

Heres a good video of brooks and his sharp release, pinpoint accuracy, and an awesome trajectory that rivals the greats.
CLASSIC. Exactly what I alluded to when I told the Sizzock, I already knew about Aaron.

[Raider Bill]

and relied on their D

New Orleans' defense stunk during Brooks' time there. They ranked higher than 26th exactly once (points allowed)

[Raider Bill]

Saints
Year Points For (Rank) Points against (Rank)


2005............ 31................... 28
2004 ............14................... 28
2003............ 14................... 14
2002............. 3.................... 26
2001............ 13.................... 27


Sure, Brooks "Dilfered" his way along behind a defense rivaling the 85 Bears hmmm...

[Pat Bowlen]

Saints
Year Points For (Rank) Points against (Rank)


2005............ 31................... 28
2004 ............14................... 28
2003............ 14................... 14
2002............. 3.................... 26
2001............ 13.................... 27


Sure, Brooks "Dilfered" his way along behind a defense rivaling the 85 Bears hmmm...
We already went over this, but you're still using it to make your case. The past three years Oakland's defense hasn't been any better than New Orleans'. You're welcome to believe that the Raiders are moving in the right direction on that side of the ball, but your use of the Saints' defense as ammunition for Brooks succeeding is pretty worthless.

[Kaylore]

Personally, I don't see his release as similar to Marino's, but I'm quite sure Dan had a few balls knocked out of his hand. Has nothing to do with the speed of his release. One thing you can't argue- his release is faster than Brees' was. Remains to be seen whether his decisions on the field, are worse, equal, or better than Drew's. I think it's going to be hard. Everything I've hear from coaches and players is that letting Brees go was a mistake and that the management essentially had to live with their choice they made. Personally, I felt Brees was a very athletic footabll player that had great accuracy and made good decisions. He did't have the biggest arm, but he was a leader that the team believed in. I don't see that support for Rivers from the team. Time will tell, I suppose.

[sirhcyennek81]

how about this. The raiders sucked last year, and bringing in a has been couldnt hurt, its not like they can get any worse.


:Broncos:

[NW Bolt Fan]

I think it's going to be hard. Everything I've hear from coaches and players is that letting Brees go was a mistake and that the management essentially had to live with their choice they made. Personally, I felt Brees was a very athletic footabll player that had great accuracy and made good decisions. He did't have the biggest arm, but he was a leader that the team believed in. I don't see that support for Rivers from the team. Time will tell, I suppose.
Here's what Gates had to say: Obviously, you have to understand that Brees played, Brees has the experience, but at the same time Philip has leadership qualities that can't be taught. He has such natural ability, and I told him, I've played with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in the Pro Bowl, and his leadership quality is such a unique aspect of his game, and he has that same leadership ability of those other guys. He takes charge of the huddle, takes command, and you don't see that everyday from a quarterback who has taken all of this criticism and has overcome all of these adversities. He comes out like he's been the starter the past two years and it's good to see that.
Everything I've been reading is sounding like the team is taking to PR- and quickly. It was one of his better traits coming out of college. When Brees wasn't the "undisputed" starter following the '03 season, PR was MUCH more vocal, and MUCH more involved in the huddle/barking out commands, etc.

My concerns for Rivers are as follows:
1. How long will it take the game to "slow down" for him?
2. Is he agile enough to aovide the rush in the NFL?
3. Will his pocket awareness be suitable for the NFL?

Remains to be seen how he'll fare. I think there'll be an adjustment period for the team, but I don't believe anyone is expecting anything less than they were entering '05. If we don't go deep into the playoffs, it'll be a disappointment- much like last year was.

[Raider Bill]

We already went over this, but you're still using it to make your case. The past three years Oakland's defense hasn't been any better than New Orleans'. You're welcome to believe that the Raiders are moving in the right direction on that side of the ball, but your use of the Saints' defense as ammunition for Brooks succeeding is pretty worthless.


Our defense moved from 31st in 2004 to 25th in 2005.


They already have outperformed the Saints.

[Pat Bowlen]

Our defense moved from 31st in 2004 to 25th in 2005.

They already have outperformed the Saints.
Well, at least you have high standards.

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1075&dateline=1146885283

We improved from 31 to 25 on D and I will post an OL with a mullet that looks the the Elephant Man.

It' just doesn't get better than that. Plus he has a K.C. mullet.

Watching rival clowns march thru here is priceless.

[Raider Bill]

Well, at least you have high standards.


Some one said Brooks relied on a running game and D. That's just patently untrue. He had a nice back in Duece, but their defense stunk worse than ours.

The Raiders have trended upwards as they've added players. NO consistently stunk playing in a division with mid pack offenses.

[Tha rock]

Some one said Brooks relied on a running game and D. That's just patently untrue. He had a nice back in Duece, but their defense stunk worse than ours.

The Raiders have trended upwards as they've added players. NO consistently stunk playing in a division with mid pack offenses.



thank you and brooks has got it done deuce only had three good seasons brooks did good all those season plus the one he didnt have deuce. his WR's were not good either and his O-line wasnt as good as ours either. stall porter is better than stall worth by alot and Moss is better than horn by alot. we have a good TE in courtney anderson and we have a good RB. brooks will get it done. if he starts.