"Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism"

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Religious fanatics, we're fighting them in Iraq, are these guys next?

--------------------------------------------------------
"Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism"
Across the United States, religious activists are organizing to establish an American theocracy. A frightening look inside the growing right-wing movement.

Editor's note: This is an excerpt from senior writer Michelle Goldberg's new book, "Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism."
By Michelle Goldberg

May 12, 2006 | A teenage modern dance troupe dressed all in black took their places on the stage of the First Baptist Church of Pleasant Grove, a suburb of Birmingham, Alabama. Two dancers, donning black overcoats, crossed their arms menacingly. As a Christian pop ballad swelled on the speakers, a boy wearing judicial robes walked out. Holding a Ten Commandments tablet that seemed to be made of cardboard, he was playing former Alabama Supreme Court justice Roy Moore. The trench-coated thugs approached him, miming a violent rebuke and forcing him to the other end of the stage, sans Commandments.

There, a cluster of dancers impersonating liberal activists waved signs with slogans like "No Moore!" and "Keep God Out!! No God in Court." The boy Moore danced a harangue, first lurching toward his tormentors and then cringing back in outrage before breaking through their line to lunge for his monument. But the dancers in trench coats -- agents of atheism -- got hold of it first and took it away, leaving him abject on the floor. As the song's uplifting chorus played -- "After you've done all you can, you just stand" -- a dancer in a white robe, playing either an angel or God himself, came forward and helped the Moore character to his feet.

The performance ended to enthusiastic applause from a crowd that included many Alabama judges and politicians, as well as Roy Moore himself, a gaunt man with a courtly manner and the wrath of Leviticus in his eyes. Moore has become a hero to those determined to remake the United States into an explicitly Christian nation. That reconstructionist dream lies at the red-hot center of our current culture wars, investing the symbolic fight over the Ten Commandments -- a fight whose outcome seems irrelevant to most peoples' lives -- with an apocalyptic urgency.

On November 13, 2003, Moore was removed from his position as chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court after he defied a judge's order to remove the 2.6-ton Ten Commandments monument he'd installed in the Montgomery judicial building. On the coasts, he seemed a ridiculous figure, the latest in a line of grotesque Southern anachronisms. After all, Moore is a man who, in a 2002 court decision awarding custody of three children to their allegedly abusive father over their lesbian mother, called homosexuality "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God upon which this Nation and our laws are predicated," and argued, "The State carries the power of the sword, that is, the power to prohibit conduct with physical penalties, such as confinement and even execution. It must use that power to prevent the subversion of children toward this lifestyle, to not encourage a criminal lifestyle." He's a man who writes rhyming poetry decrying the teaching of evolution and who fought against the Alabama ballot measure to remove segregationist language from the state constitution.

To the growing Christian nationalist movement, though, Roy Moore is a martyr, cut down by secular tyranny for daring to assert God's truth.

It's a role he seems to love. The battle that cost Moore his job wasn't his first Ten Commandments fight. In 1995, the ACLU sued Moore, then a county circuit judge, for hanging a Ten Commandments plaque in his courtroom and leading juries in prayer. As Matt Labash recalled in an adulatory Weekly Standard article, "The conflict's natural drama was compounded when the governor, Fob James, announced that he would deploy the National Guard, state troopers, and the Alabama and Auburn football teams to keep Moore's tablets on the wall."

That case reached an ambiguous conclusion in 1998, when the state supreme court threw out the lawsuit on technical grounds. By then, Moore had become a star of the right. Televangelist D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries raised more than $100,000 for his legal defense fund, and Moore spoke at a series of rallies that drew thousands. His right-wing fame helped catapult him to victory in the 2000 race for chief justice of the state supreme court.

Moore installed his massive Ten Commandments monument on August 1, 2001, and from the beginning, he and his allies used it to stir up the Christian nationalist faithful. He gave videographers from Coral Ridge Ministries exclusive access to the courthouse on the night the monument was mounted, and on October 14, D. James Kennedy started hawking a $19 video about Moore's brave, covert installation on his television show.

As the controversy over the statue ignited, Moore's fame grew. At rallies across the country, he summoned the faithful to an ideal that sounded very much like theocracy. "For forty years we have wandered like the children of Israel," he told a crowd of three thousand supporters in Tennessee. "In homes and schools across our land, it's time for Christians to take a stand. This is not a nation established on the principles of Buddha or Hinduism. Our faith is not Islam. What we follow is not the Koran but the Bible.This is a Christian nation."

By the time he was removed as chief justice, Moore had sparked a movement, and his monument was an icon. In the days before officials came to cart the Commandments away, hundreds flocked to Montgomery to rally on the courtroom steps. Some slept there and imagined themselves the nucleus of a new civil rights movement.

Thomas Bowman, a bearded Christian folk singer from Kentucky who wears a knit Rasta hat, wrote an anthem called "Montgomery Fire" celebrating the demonstrations: "We had love in our hearts that no man could ever remove / but with the whole world we watched as they hauled the Commandments away." When I met him a year later at First Baptist, he referred to the protesters, romantically, as the "ragamuffin warriors" fighting for God against the atheist state. During the controversy, he said, he'd felt the Lord's call, and driven six and a half hours from Louisville. In Montgomery, he met others like him, who'd felt compelled to take a stand against secularism.

"The opposing side, the anti-God side, the do-whatever-you-want side, the judicial side, just kept pushing and pushing and pushing for the last forty years," Bowman said. "They keep moving that line back." Finally, he said, God called on Christians to defend themselves.

After the Commandments were removed, a group of retired military men from Texas who called themselves American Veterans in Domestic Defense spent months taking the monument -- now affectionately called "Roy’s Rock" -- on tour all over the country, holding more than 150 viewings and rallies in churches, at state capitols, even in Wal-Mart parking lots. Moore also found powerful supporters in statehouses and in Congress who proposed laws to radically restrict the power of federal courts to enforce the separation of church and state. In solidarity, another Alabama judge, Ashley McKathan, had the Ten Commandments embroidered onto his robe. Christian homeschool catalogues offered copies of a video titled "Roy Moore’s Message to America." When Moore suggested he might run for Alabama governor, state polls showed him with a double-digit lead.

Next page: The connection between Fascism and Christian Nationalism
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/ld9mp

[Smiling Assassin27]

Religious fanatics, we're fighting them in Iraq, are these guys next?

--------------------------------------------------------
"Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism"
Across the United States, religious activists are organizing to establish an American theocracy. A frightening look inside the growing right-wing movement.

Editor's note: This is an excerpt from senior writer Michelle Goldberg's new book, "Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism."
By Michelle Goldberg

May 12, 2006 | A teenage modern dance troupe dressed all in black took their places on the stage of the First Baptist Church of Pleasant Grove, a suburb of Birmingham, Alabama. Two dancers, donning black overcoats, crossed their arms menacingly. As a Christian pop ballad swelled on the speakers, a boy wearing judicial robes walked out. Holding a Ten Commandments tablet that seemed to be made of cardboard, he was playing former Alabama Supreme Court justice Roy Moore. The trench-coated thugs approached him, miming a violent rebuke and forcing him to the other end of the stage, sans Commandments.

There, a cluster of dancers impersonating liberal activists waved signs with slogans like "No Moore!" and "Keep God Out!! No God in Court." The boy Moore danced a harangue, first lurching toward his tormentors and then cringing back in outrage before breaking through their line to lunge for his monument. But the dancers in trench coats -- agents of atheism -- got hold of it first and took it away, leaving him abject on the floor. As the song's uplifting chorus played -- "After you've done all you can, you just stand" -- a dancer in a white robe, playing either an angel or God himself, came forward and helped the Moore character to his feet.

The performance ended to enthusiastic applause from a crowd that included many Alabama judges and politicians, as well as Roy Moore himself, a gaunt man with a courtly manner and the wrath of Leviticus in his eyes. Moore has become a hero to those determined to remake the United States into an explicitly Christian nation. That reconstructionist dream lies at the red-hot center of our current culture wars, investing the symbolic fight over the Ten Commandments -- a fight whose outcome seems irrelevant to most peoples' lives -- with an apocalyptic urgency.

On November 13, 2003, Moore was removed from his position as chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court after he defied a judge's order to remove the 2.6-ton Ten Commandments monument he'd installed in the Montgomery judicial building. On the coasts, he seemed a ridiculous figure, the latest in a line of grotesque Southern anachronisms. After all, Moore is a man who, in a 2002 court decision awarding custody of three children to their allegedly abusive father over their lesbian mother, called homosexuality "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God upon which this Nation and our laws are predicated," and argued, "The State carries the power of the sword, that is, the power to prohibit conduct with physical penalties, such as confinement and even execution. It must use that power to prevent the subversion of children toward this lifestyle, to not encourage a criminal lifestyle." He's a man who writes rhyming poetry decrying the teaching of evolution and who fought against the Alabama ballot measure to remove segregationist language from the state constitution.

To the growing Christian nationalist movement, though, Roy Moore is a martyr, cut down by secular tyranny for daring to assert God's truth.

It's a role he seems to love. The battle that cost Moore his job wasn't his first Ten Commandments fight. In 1995, the ACLU sued Moore, then a county circuit judge, for hanging a Ten Commandments plaque in his courtroom and leading juries in prayer. As Matt Labash recalled in an adulatory Weekly Standard article, "The conflict's natural drama was compounded when the governor, Fob James, announced that he would deploy the National Guard, state troopers, and the Alabama and Auburn football teams to keep Moore's tablets on the wall."

That case reached an ambiguous conclusion in 1998, when the state supreme court threw out the lawsuit on technical grounds. By then, Moore had become a star of the right. Televangelist D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries raised more than $100,000 for his legal defense fund, and Moore spoke at a series of rallies that drew thousands. His right-wing fame helped catapult him to victory in the 2000 race for chief justice of the state supreme court.

Moore installed his massive Ten Commandments monument on August 1, 2001, and from the beginning, he and his allies used it to stir up the Christian nationalist faithful. He gave videographers from Coral Ridge Ministries exclusive access to the courthouse on the night the monument was mounted, and on October 14, D. James Kennedy started hawking a $19 video about Moore's brave, covert installation on his television show.

As the controversy over the statue ignited, Moore's fame grew. At rallies across the country, he summoned the faithful to an ideal that sounded very much like theocracy. "For forty years we have wandered like the children of Israel," he told a crowd of three thousand supporters in Tennessee. "In homes and schools across our land, it's time for Christians to take a stand. This is not a nation established on the principles of Buddha or Hinduism. Our faith is not Islam. What we follow is not the Koran but the Bible.This is a Christian nation."

By the time he was removed as chief justice, Moore had sparked a movement, and his monument was an icon. In the days before officials came to cart the Commandments away, hundreds flocked to Montgomery to rally on the courtroom steps. Some slept there and imagined themselves the nucleus of a new civil rights movement.

Thomas Bowman, a bearded Christian folk singer from Kentucky who wears a knit Rasta hat, wrote an anthem called "Montgomery Fire" celebrating the demonstrations: "We had love in our hearts that no man could ever remove / but with the whole world we watched as they hauled the Commandments away." When I met him a year later at First Baptist, he referred to the protesters, romantically, as the "ragamuffin warriors" fighting for God against the atheist state. During the controversy, he said, he'd felt the Lord's call, and driven six and a half hours from Louisville. In Montgomery, he met others like him, who'd felt compelled to take a stand against secularism.

"The opposing side, the anti-God side, the do-whatever-you-want side, the judicial side, just kept pushing and pushing and pushing for the last forty years," Bowman said. "They keep moving that line back." Finally, he said, God called on Christians to defend themselves.

After the Commandments were removed, a group of retired military men from Texas who called themselves American Veterans in Domestic Defense spent months taking the monument -- now affectionately called "Roy’s Rock" -- on tour all over the country, holding more than 150 viewings and rallies in churches, at state capitols, even in Wal-Mart parking lots. Moore also found powerful supporters in statehouses and in Congress who proposed laws to radically restrict the power of federal courts to enforce the separation of church and state. In solidarity, another Alabama judge, Ashley McKathan, had the Ten Commandments embroidered onto his robe. Christian homeschool catalogues offered copies of a video titled "Roy Moore’s Message to America." When Moore suggested he might run for Alabama governor, state polls showed him with a double-digit lead.

Next page: The connection between Fascism and Christian Nationalism
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/ld9mp

Yeah, i guess everyone's entitled freedom of expression except the ones that believe in God...Depicting the deliberate killing of anti-abortion activists in a comic is fine but this isnt? Those who scream for tolerance ought to live by the same standard they demand of others, IMO.

[Spider]

Yeah, i guess everyone's entitled freedom of expression except the ones that believe in God...Depicting the deliberate killing of anti-abortion activists in a comic is fine but this isnt? Those who scream for tolerance ought to live by the same standard they demand of others, IMO.
LOL .. i forgot to warn BB to aim low ........ it isnt that Christians cant speak , they are free to , just dot expect me to speak the same language , dont use tax payers money to promote religion on goverment property ......... not that hardto figure out is it ?
just like that play and their message , they are free to do it , make it a movie , mel Gibson can direct it ........... Just dont force the rest of us to see it ......

[alkemical]

I think we should teach Aliester Crowley in schools.

I think it'd be just what america needs IMO.

[Smiling Assassin27]

why? it's ok to use government money for population control under the guise of 'medical care' but it's not OK to use it to uphold a moral code? they're the same thing only one is deceptive in its practice.

there's a reason the Founding Fathers invoked God in their Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and even in the first ordinance they passed as a Congress. There's a reason why they based the Tri-partheid government on the Trinity and the government on the Bible. It's because they believed that religion HAD to be part of a republic that guaranteed freedom. now, people claim that this moral code is 'imposing' on others. if you don't like looking at the 10 Commandments, then look away. This nation has never been atheist, so stop trying to whitewash history and create a Godless state out of the god-fearing men who established it. i await your uninformed ridicule.

[Spider]

why? it's ok to use government money for population control under the guise of 'medical care' but it's not OK to use it to uphold a moral code? they're the same thing only one is deceptive in its practice. no it isnt ? how in the hell didyou come up with that ? Healthcare we need , Religion is an option ...........

there's a reason the Founding Fathers invoked God in their Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and even in the first ordinance they passed as a Congress. There's a reason why they based the Tri-partheid government on the Trinity and the government on the Bible. It's because they believed that religion HAD to be part of a republic that guaranteed freedom. now, people claim that this moral code is 'imposing' on others. if you don't like looking at the 10 Commandments, then look away. This nation has never been atheist, so stop trying to whitewash history and create a Godless state out of the god-fearing men who established it. i await your uninformed ridicule.
on the same hand if you want the 10 commandments ( according to you is off the mark)then why not carry a little plaque with them on it ? you can see them when ever you want ..........and no god did not have to be part of Republic , the freedom to persue religion was part of the republic ........ you get God mixed up with Religion alot ........

[Bronco_Beerslug]

why? it's ok to use government money for population control under the guise of 'medical care' but it's not OK to use it to uphold a moral code? they're the same thing only one is deceptive in its practice.

there's a reason the Founding Fathers invoked God in their Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and even in the first ordinance they passed as a Congress. There's a reason why they based the Tri-partheid government on the Trinity and the government on the Bible. It's because they believed that religion HAD to be part of a republic that guaranteed freedom. now, people claim that this moral code is 'imposing' on others. if you don't like looking at the 10 Commandments, then look away. This nation has never been atheist, so stop trying to whitewash history and create a Godless state out of the god-fearing men who established it. i await your uninformed ridicule.

So many wrongs things here but suffice to say, you and the religious right do NOT have the right to impose your religion on me or anyone else (neither does any other religion). Our founders made it absolutely clear.

But you can humor me and tell me how many people attend church in this country to show why this country is a nation of God..

[Smiling Assassin27]

no it isnt ? how in the hell didyou come up with that ? Healthcare we need , Religion is an option ...........


on the same hand if you want the 10 commandments ( according to you is off the mark)then why not carry a little plaque with them on it ? you can see them when ever you want ..........and no god did not have to be part of Republic , the freedom to persue religion was part of the republic ........ you get God mixed up with Religion alot ........

allowing abortion is a moral stance. when the state funds them, it takes a moral stance. no different than the state posting the 10 Commandments, except one leads to loss of life and one does not.

have you ever read the Northwest Ordinance, spider? i'd recommend it--it's the first Ordinance passed by the first Congress which outlined principles for expansion of the nation. It mandated that, since religion was integral to having a moral people, and moral people were the cornerstone of a Republic, that schools must be (not should be) set up to provide the moral basis for expansion--morality based on the 10 commandments. Not my words, the words of the First Congress. See, if you do your homework, you see the first Legislative bodies writing things like:

Whereas, the people of these United States, from their earliest history to the present time, have been led by the hand of a kind Providence and are indebted for the countless blessings of the past and present, and dependent for continued prosperity in the future upon Almighty God; and whereas the great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ, it eminently becomes the representatives of a people so highly favored to acknowledge in the most public manner their reverence for God: therefore, Resolved, That the daily sessions of this body be opened with prayer and that the ministers of the Gospel in this city are hereby requested to attend and alternately perform this solemn duty.

During the Revolutionary War, Congress was passing bills that called upon God to help them win the war and established a National Day of Thanksgiving in 1777 that said:

FORASMUCH as it is the indispensable Duty of all Men to adore the superintending Providence of Almighty God;...It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive powers of these United States, to set apart THURSDAY, the eighteenth Day of December next, for Solemn Thanksgiving and Praise; That with one Heart and one Voice the good People may express the grateful Feelings of their Hearts, and consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor; and that together with their sincere Acknowledgments and Offerings, they may join the penitent Confession of their manifold Sins, whereby they had forfeited every Favour, and their humble and earnest Supplication that it may please GOD, through the Merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of Remembrance; To take Schools and Seminaries of Education, so necessary for cultivating the Principles of true Liberty, Virtue and Piety, under his nurturing Hand, and to prosper the Means of Religion for the promotion and enlargement of that Kingdom which consisteth “in Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.”

it's been this way since the beginning.

[Spider]

allowing abortion is a moral stance. when the state funds them, it takes a moral stance. no different than the state posting the 10 Commandments, except one leads to loss of life and one does not. it is also a fiscal stance , if I wasnt in the position I was , I couldnt afford my triplets , some guy dirt poor would have to terminate the pregnancy .............. 1 baby cost alot , 3 tripples the cost , not to mention if there is a health problem ..............

have you ever read the Northwest Ordinance, spider? i'd recommend it--it's the first Ordinance passed by the first Congress which outlined principles for expansion of the nation. It mandated that, since religion was integral to having a moral people, and moral people were the cornerstone of a Republic, that schools must be (not should be) set up to provide the moral basis for expansion--morality based on the 10 commandments. Not my words, the words of the First Congress. See, if you do your homework, you see the first Legislative bodies writing things like:



During the Revolutionary War, Congress was passing bills that called upon God to help them win the war and established a National Day of Thanksgiving in 1777 that said:

FORASMUCH as it is the indispensable Duty of all Men to adore the superintending Providence of Almighty God;...It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive powers of these United States, to set apart THURSDAY, the eighteenth Day of December next, for Solemn Thanksgiving and Praise; That with one Heart and one Voice the good People may express the grateful Feelings of their Hearts, and consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor; and that together with their sincere Acknowledgments and Offerings, they may join the penitent Confession of their manifold Sins, whereby they had forfeited every Favour, and their humble and earnest Supplication that it may please GOD, through the Merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of Remembrance; To take Schools and Seminaries of Education, so necessary for cultivating the Principles of true Liberty, Virtue and Piety, under his nurturing Hand, and to prosper the Means of Religion for the promotion and enlargement of that Kingdom which consisteth “in Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.”

it's been this way since the beginning.
yeah the indians thought we was pretty moral , no question about it ...... Small pox into the blankets , running Buffalo over a cliff to cut their food supply , slaughtering entire tribes ......same reoccuring theme with Religion ........ Do as we say not as we do

[alkemical]

Founding fathers were Diests, not christians.

[DBruleU]

Founding fathers were Diests, not christians.

Yeah, we can definitely tell by what was posted above, they were definitely not Christians. ::)

[DBruleU]

it is also a fiscal stance , if I wasnt in the position I was , I couldnt afford my triplets , some guy dirt poor would have to terminate the pregnancy .............. 1 baby cost alot , 3 tripples the cost , not to mention if there is a health problem ..............


yeah the indians thought we was pretty moral , no question about it ...... Small pox into the blankets , running Buffalo over a cliff to cut their food supply , slaughtering entire tribes ......same reoccuring theme with Religion ........ Do as we say not as we do

What does any of that have to do with how the Indians viewed us?

It was the point that God was a huge part of our founding of this country. And Assassins post leaves little room for debate.

Read any of our founding fathers original writings, and you will see they were most definitely Christians, and their God was Jesus Christ.

[Spider]

What does any of that have to do with how the Indians viewed us?

It was the point that God was a huge part of our founding of this country. And Assassins post leaves little room for debate.

Read any of our founding fathers original writings, and you will see they were most definitely Christians, and their God was Jesus Christ.
so you dont see the do as we do not as we say angle ........ Ok i thought it was pretty obvious ........ if this was the case , then how come under god was added to the plegde of aliegence in the 50's ........... our founding fathers were dietist .........

[alkemical]

You fundies make me laugh.

The founding fathers were diests - George Washington, Jefferson - etc - They borrowed the Penna Charter to setup freedom of religion. They realized (being diests) that all religions had a ray of light sent from god.

[defenseman]

I'm convinced that this problem started because some organizations and non-christian believing people have decided over the years to not only remove some of the crosses across the country (that I might add have been in place for hundreds of years), but to take it a step further and claim they should not have to look at a nativity display during the holiday season. I quite honestly agree with many of this group though that this group "apparently a minority" wants christmas, easter, you name it wiped out....this is the repurcussions of the goals of some non-christian people and the organizations that have helped them carve up america. A balance needs to be struck, thusly, a balance it is...........honestly, I saw this one coming 10 or 15 years ago based on some of the nut cases in califorinia, city of LA, you name it. All in the name of special interests as far as I'm concerned..dman

[defenseman]

the founding fathers though found a way to include god in alot of their workings. They don't have to be priests or anything else. They wanted it in there, so they put it in....dman

[Spider]

it isnt we want x mas , easter , wipedout , we celebrate it like everyone else , most of us understand what Christmas is and what it means to christianity , but it is so comercialized now , that they have lost their meaning , so now we have Santa and the easter bunny , tell me what do they have to do with Christ ? nothing , so now they are secular holidays , and if you buy x mas presents youare part of the transformation ........ so while it is easy to kick back and blame people like me for this , it ismuch harder to do soul searching and see people that celebrate Christmas i the same fashion I do are a larger part of the problem ........ PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE RESPONCIBILTY FOR THEIR ACTIONS ...........

[BroncoInferno]

why? it's ok to use government money for population control under the guise of 'medical care' but it's not OK to use it to uphold a moral code? they're the same thing only one is deceptive in its practice.

If you are talking about abortion, I agree, I am not in favor of the state paying for them for the same reason I am against the state endorsing and showing favor to a particular religion.

there's a reason the Founding Fathers invoked God in their Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and even in the first ordinance they passed as a Congress. There's a reason why they based the Tri-partheid government on the Trinity and the government on the Bible. It's because they believed that religion HAD to be part of a republic that guaranteed freedom. now, people claim that this moral code is 'imposing' on others. if you don't like looking at the 10 Commandments, then look away. This nation has never been atheist, so stop trying to whitewash history and create a Godless state out of the god-fearing men who established it. i await your uninformed ridicule.

Wow, so much BS here, it's hard to know where to begin. For starters, the 10 Commandments are not the basis for our laws. The only two that are actually against our national laws are stealing and murder. I can commit adultry all I want; I can covet my neighbor's wife and ass till the cows come home; I take take the Lord's name in vain as a hobby, etc all without suffering any consequences within our law. And our founding fathers were not all Christians, they were an interesting mix of deists, atheists, agnostics AND Christians working together. Thomas Jefferson, the primary author of the Constitution, was a deist, a product of the Enlightenment, often spoke with contempt regarding religion, and you want to tell me he wanted religion to play a part in our laws? Ever hear of the wall between church and state? Thomas Jefferson invented that phrase! And you want us to believe that this same man and the others like him wanted to form a Christian nation? There is some revisionist history being attempted here, but it isn't coming from the secularists.

[defenseman]

The balance is struck. These supposed "right wing" groups of fanatical religious zealots were created not by me, but by the fanatical "left wing" groups who preach their collective mantras. A balance was necessary, herego, it has been struck in a quite natural way indeed. Bottom line: any excessive beliefs or groups will eventually breed the opposite , it can't help but too, based on the priniciple of equal balance alone....dman

[Spider]

The balance is struck. These supposed "right wing" groups of fanatical religious zealots were created not by me, but by the fanatical "left wing" groups who preach their collective mantras. A balance was necessary, herego, it has been struck in a quite natural way indeed. Bottom line: any excessive beliefs or groups will eventually breed the opposite , it can't help but too, based on the priniciple of equal balance alone....dman
there is no balance not as long as Christmas is comercialized ....... Christmas as christians see it has nothing to do with the way Christmas is celebrated ...... a balance wouldbe to make Christmas to be what Chirstians lore has it to be , andcreate another Holiday , um like Spiders day andwe can celebrate it now as we do Christmas

[Spider]

but you dont invite the fox into the hen house , then blame the dead chickens on the fox ......

[defenseman]

Christmas, is christmas. I just don't see your point..here let me take my rose colored glasses off:thumbs: .......that's better ...ok give it a shot....dman

[Spider]

Christmas, is christmas. I just don't see your point..here let me take my rose colored glasses off:thumbs: .......that's better ...ok give it a shot....dman
secularism , when Xmas became commericialized with Santa , christmas sales, Rudolph , Frosty the snowman , has nothing to do with the connection of the birth of christ , and those christians that took part in this are just as guilty of destroying christmas as those that want religion removed ..........
if you are not part of the solution , you are part of the problem .......it is just easier to say hey ,godless heathens are destroying Christmas , when in reality everyone is destroying it ..........Christmas is more to christians then setting up a navity sceen

[defenseman]

I see your point to a point. On the same token, the children are sort of "robbed" of what should be a very wonderful time in each of their lives. Christmas time. I don't know, I'm going to have to knaw on this one for a while......I can't see taking this away from our kids....I'll agree , it is very commercialized and I don't care too much for that either...dman

[Spider]

I see your point to a point. On the same token, the children are sort of "robbed" of what should be a very wonderful time in each of their lives. Christmas time. I don't know, I'm going to have to knaw on this one for a while......I can't see taking this away from our kids....I'll agree , it is very commercialized and I don't care too much for that either...dman
I agree not talking about taking it away , just seperating ........ Let Christians have Christmas , celebrate it any way they want , but then have another holiday with Santa , Rudolph , frosty the snow man .......... the only reason this aint done is both sides need this issue to rally suipport for their cause

[sisterhellfyre]

I agree not talking about taking it away , just seperating ........ Let Christians have Christmas , celebrate it any way they want , but then have another holiday with Santa , Rudolph , frosty the snow man .......... the only reason this aint done is both sides need this issue to rally suipport for their cause

Or you could strip it of the Christian trappings completely, and go back to the pagan roots of the holiday... It's been celebrated for thousands of years in cultures all over the world as Yule, Saturnalia, etc. The point is to celebrate the winter solstice, the longest night of the year. The wheel of the seasons turns, and the nights get shorter as spring approaches. It's frequently a time for giving presents, too... and the symbolism of the darkness passing can be personally rich and significant as a time of leaving "personal darkness" behind too.

The tradition of the Yule log comes from these times: burning a log large enough to burn until dawn, giving light and heat thru the longest night. Christmas trees come from this season too, because they were regarded as symbols of everlasting life, unaffected by the seasons. The Christian church appropriated these and many other traditions, including the Romans' Saturnalia, and just tacked Jesus' birthday over the top of it.

I stopped celebrating Christmas years ago, but I very much enjoy the Yule and Solstice. :-)

Regards,
m.

[Spider]

Or you could strip it of the Christian trappings completely, and go back to the pagan roots of the holiday... It's been celebrated for thousands of years in cultures all over the world as Yule, Saturnalia, etc. The point is to celebrate the winter solstice, the longest night of the year. The wheel of the seasons turns, and the nights get shorter as spring approaches. It's frequently a time for giving presents, too... and the symbolism of the darkness passing can be personally rich and significant as a time of leaving "personal darkness" behind too.

The tradition of the Yule log comes from these times: burning a log large enough to burn until dawn, giving light and heat thru the longest night. Christmas trees come from this season too, because they were regarded as symbols of everlasting life, unaffected by the seasons. The Christian church appropriated these and many other traditions, including the Romans' Saturnalia, and just tacked Jesus' birthday over the top of it.

I stopped celebrating Christmas years ago, but I very much enjoy the Yule and Solstice. :-)

Regards,
m.

you are going to burn in hell for this you know ;D

[sisterhellfyre]

you are going to burn in hell for this you know ;D

Yeah, but I hear the devil's got a hell of a band down there. :-)

Regards,
m.

[defenseman]

Yeah, but the price of admission to see this band is nothing I want part of that's for sure...dman

[alkemical]

well sisterhellfyre,

According to christianity i will be there with ya -

[sisterhellfyre]

Yeah, but the price of admission to see this band is nothing I want part of that's for sure...dman

To each his own. Or her own, too. :-)

I'm not too worried about it. By all the standards I grew up with, I have become the person I would have preached against 20 years ago. How's that for a karmic kick in the ass?

Regards,
m.

[sisterhellfyre]

According to christianity i will be there with ya -

Great, Ames! Between sessions of getting tortured by demons, I'll bet we'll have some great conversations. :-)

Regards,
m.

[Spider]

Heathen bastards ............ Hey I kinda like this ;D

[Hotrod]

:nono:

[alkemical]

Great, Ames! Between sessions of getting tortured by demons, I'll bet we'll have some great conversations. :-)

Regards,
m.


:)

can we play games like 'bacchaus says' :)

[Mile High Shack]

:nono:

ditto to that
some people talk about their eternal lives with such flippancy

[Hotrod]

This thread is not very funny at all. Now the one awhile back where we invented the pulp-avault was kind of amusing.......

[alkemical]

I know, thinking you go to some place with clouds, harps and streets of gold blinds people to the fact that noone alive knows what the afterlife is like.

[Hotrod]

I know, thinking you go to some place with clouds, harps and streets of gold blinds people to the fact that noone alive knows what the afterlife is like.

Yes they do

[alkemical]

Yes they do


oh brother here we go again....

[Spider]

This thread is not very funny at all. Now the one awhile back where we invented the pulp-avault was kind of amusing.......
POPE -A-VAULT.......... the Pope jumping Stone hing in the pope mobile was ruled out ............:~ohyah!:

[Hotrod]

oh brother here we go again....

LOL I could not resist but I also dont have time to educate all of you today either ;D

[Hotrod]

Its actually in your "hard wiring" to know the truth you just have decided to ignore it.

[alkemical]

LOL I could not resist but I also dont have time to educate all of you today either ;D


sorry hot rod - i don't buy the heaven is for this group only mentality.

[Hotrod]

sorry hot rod - i don't buy the heaven is for this group only mentality.

So you think anyone and everyone is invited???

[Spider]

So you think anyone and everyone is invited???
I am invited ...... or it was a letter from a collection agentcy ;D

[alkemical]

Its actually in your "hard wiring" to know the truth you just have decided to ignore it.


actually if that were/is the case - then i haven't ignored it since i have conversations with my Holy Guardian Angel - (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Guardian_Angel)

[alkemical]

So you think anyone and everyone is invited???


Those who are pure and true will. Those who are at root, will have their own hell to face.

[Hotrod]

Im not thinking that self worship gets a pass.

[Hotrod]

I am invited ...... or it was a letter from a collection agentcy ;D

Your invite got lost in the mail ;D

[sisterhellfyre]

Its actually in your "hard wiring" to know the truth you just have decided to ignore it.

(Backing away from the keyboard cuz I really should get some work done... but I'll come back to this one later... promise! :-) )

Regards,
m.

[Hotrod]

(Backing away from the keyboard cuz I really should get some work done... but I'll come back to this one later... promise! :-) )

Regards,
m.

I knew I could count on you ;D

[Bronco_Beerslug]

the founding fathers though found a way to include god in alot of their workings. They don't have to be priests or anything else. They wanted it in there, so they put it in....dman
Wanted what in where? Have some examples of what you're talking about?

Heres a few from Jefferson (who believed in "Nature's God").

----------------------------------------------------------------
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
------------------------------------------------------------

[alkemical]

Im not thinking that self worship gets a pass.


I don't have any form of self worship. My god is YVHV, the god most high. I am an extension of god.

Konx om pax

[Spider]

Your invite got lost in the mail ;D
well seeing how I ihave free long distence , I will call god and get this st8ened out in a heart beat ;D

[Hotrod]

well seeing how I ihave free long distence , I will call god and get this st8ened out in a heart beat ;D

Hes pretty forgiving but he may require a good deed like selling the ford ;)

[Spider]

Hes pretty forgiving but he may require a good deed like selling the ford ;)
oh thats hitting below the belt .. may have to send you a Gay o Gram ;D

[Hotrod]

actually if that were/is the case - then i haven't ignored it since i have conversations with my Holy Guardian Angel - (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Guardian_Angel)


"Within the system of Thelema founded by Aleister Crowley in 1904, the Holy Guardian Angel is the "Silent Self", representative of one's truest divine nature."

???

[sisterhellfyre]

I knew I could count on you ;D

Am I becoming that predictable already? Darn, I'm going to have to work on that.

I have a meeting tonight at 7:00, but afterward I'll write and start at least one thread here in the WaRP forum. I know, what a pathetic way to spend a Friday night, but I'll make up for it with depraved hedonism over the weekend. How's that?

Regards,
m.

[Hotrod]

Am I becoming that predictable already? Darn, I'm going to have to work on that.

I have a meeting tonight at 7:00, but afterward I'll write and start at least one thread here in the WaRP forum. I know, what a pathetic way to spend a Friday night, but I'll make up for it with depraved hedonism over the weekend. How's that?

Regards,
m.

I wont be able to read it until Monday........

[Spider]

I wont be able to read it until Monday........
plan on being drunk all weekend hey ;D

[alkemical]

"Within the system of Thelema founded by Aleister Crowley in 1904, the Holy Guardian Angel is the "Silent Self", representative of one's truest divine nature."

???


ahh, this is where i can tell you something. (maybe)

your higherself isn't nec. you.

hmm.... how can i explain this........

maybe a bit of hassidism can explain this better than i:

1) religious panentheism, or the omnipresence of God, and (2) the idea of Devekut, communion between God and man. "Man," says the Besht, "must always bear in mind that God is omnipresent and is always with him; that God is, so to speak, the most subtle matter everywhere diffused... Let man realize that when he is looking at material things he is in reality gazing at the image of the Deity which is present in all things. With this in mind man will always serve God even in small matters."

[Hotrod]

plan on being drunk all weekend hey ;D

That and honey dos...............

[Hotrod]

Ok its Friday afternoon but is what your saying is God is everywhere and is everything??? And if that "religion' is correct then why did God never let it be know before 1904???

[alkemical]

Ok its Friday afternoon but is what your saying is God is everywhere and is everything??? And if that "religion' is correct then why did God never let it be know before 1904???


It's not so much a 'religion' - I mean AE Waite was a christian and he wrote a tarot deck......

and hotrod - if the linage is correct - a from of this has been around since.... i dunno, what the dawn of man (medicine men, holy men, etc) - Just that for me - all religions contain that bit of god that is true, and is pure.


why is it so hard to believe god is everything and everywhere? wouldn't statements by jesus corroborate this?

[Spider]

Ha this is cool ......... ok Iam bored as hell

[Hotrod]

Ha this is cool ......... ok Iam bored as hell


LOL knock that **** off.

[Hotrod]

Ok Ames so its not the worship/religion and not self worship what exactly is it? Just a tool to make one try to keep in mind the right thing to do in any given situation?

[alkemical]

Ok Ames so its not the worship/religion and not self worship what exactly is it? Just a tool to make one try to keep in mind the right thing to do in any given situation?


It goes a bit deeper than that.


For me, i believe that knowing god is a personal thing. God will reveal it's will in different ways, to different people.

For example, i am someone who uses the tree of life. For me, the tree if very symbolic. (not just for the pagan references systerhellfyre dropped) - but the roots of the tree of life, are in heaven, and the leaves and brances are what is earth. The world of formation.

My goal is to galvanize, purify my soul to reach the light. The pure essense that is. only by purifying it will it be returned to god.

But, there are..... ways to push the pschye to break through - and that's what the GD/OTO/Chaos systems i use do.

It's not for the mainstream, and this i fully fully understand. It does sound 'scary' to some. But i am striving to do 'good', and nothing to further any agenda i have. To me, this is how i know it's 'honest'. It requires you to be fully honest and have a deep understanding of yourself.

[Spider]

LOL knock that **** off.
Ok .....................................

[alkemical]

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19115810%255E912,00.html


Catholic priest convicted over satanic ritual murder of nun
By JAMES EWINGER
13may06
A U.S. jury yesterday found a Roman Catholic priest guilty of the satanic ritual-style murder of a 71-year-old nun which went unsolved for more than 25 years.

Father Gerald Robinson, above, was sentenced to a mandatory jail term of between 15 years and life.

There were gasps in the court after the verdict, but the 68-year-old priest remained impassive.

Sister Margaret Ann Pahl was found murdered on a chapel floor in April, 1980. She had been strangled, covered in an altar cloth and stabbed 31 times in the shape of an upturned holy cross.

[Hotrod]

Ok .....................................

Na dont ;D

[Spider]

Na dont ;D
Ha! it will drive Chief fans nuts

[DBruleU]

Ha! it will drive Chief fans nuts

You and Hotrod seem to have too much fun around here.

I want whatever you guys are drinking. :)

[Spider]

You and Hotrod seem to have too much fun around here.

I want whatever you guys are drinking. :)
the more the merrier ......... ;D just join in the fun ..... you are good people

[BABronco]

Ok ... back on topic. That judge is no martyr. He's just a guy who stuck up what he believed in.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Wow, so much BS here, it's hard to know where to begin. For starters, the 10 Commandments are not the basis for our laws. The only two that are actually against our national laws are stealing and murder. I can commit adultry all I want; I can covet my neighbor's wife and ass till the cows come home; I take take the Lord's name in vain as a hobby, etc all without suffering any consequences within our law. And our founding fathers were not all Christians, they were an interesting mix of deists, atheists, agnostics AND Christians working together. Thomas Jefferson, the primary author of the Constitution, was a deist, a product of the Enlightenment, often spoke with contempt regarding religion, and you want to tell me he wanted religion to play a part in our laws? Ever hear of the wall between church and state? Thomas Jefferson invented that phrase! And you want us to believe that this same man and the others like him wanted to form a Christian nation? There is some revisionist history being attempted here, but it isn't coming from the secularists.


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8697/36893112owned59dj.jpg

Once again, Inferno puts the WWF smackdown on the whack jobs.

Nice work! :thumbsup:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It was the point that God was a huge part of our founding of this country. And Assassins post leaves little room for debate.

Wrong.

The principle of religious freedom - not any one religious notion of God - was a huge part of the founding of this country.

That means freedom, among other things, to either take or leave religion.

Read any of our founding fathers original writings, and you will see they were most definitely Christians, and their God was Jesus Christ.

:oyvey:

"Any" of our founding fathers?

Hard to believe you could be so ignorant when it comes to the history of your own country.

Read Inferno's quote in my previous post - it provides a good starting point for your education re: the founders.

[DBruleU]

Of course I'm wrong.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Of course I'm wrong.

You mean wrong about the following claim?


Read any of our founding fathers original writings, and you will see they were most definitely Christians, and their God was Jesus Christ.

You most certainly were.

[ClevelandBronco]

Wanted what in where? Have some examples of what you're talking about?

Heres a few from Jefferson (who believed in "Nature's God").

----------------------------------------------------------------
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Thos. Jefferson was indeed a gifted thinker and writer. I have often read the inspiration of God in his words, but I've seen it much less frequently in his actions.

But Jefferson is ultimately a disappointing figure. Certainly all white men born in these United States own a debt of gratitude to him, but I wish he had found the courage in his life to free the men and women he owned. I wish he had held the ability of free women to participate in government in higher regard.

The reality of his life was ultimately shallow when it is compared to the capabilities of his mind, and that is often the downfall of too many who rely upon poorly contrived logical devices to justify abhorrent behavior. Oh, the Virginian he could have been, had he not worshipped his position in society above the dignity of the somewhat darker people who continued to support him in that position.

At any rate, I especially like and agree with this quote, given its context at the time it was written -- and particularly in regard to Jefferson himself -- especially as it tries to excuse his own poor treatment of the fellow human beings who resided on the grounds of his estate. If the good Christians Mr. Jefferson knew were flawed, that could help to excuse his own shortcomings: "I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")

And this one is true, no matter when it might have been written: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Battle Cry for theocracy

If you've been waiting until the Christian fascist movement started filling stadiums with young people and hyping them up to do battle in "God's army" to get alarmed, wait no longer.

In recent weeks, Battle Cry, a Christian fundamentalist youth movement and an offshoot of Teen Mania Ministeries, has held mega-rally rock concerts in San Francisco and Detroit, attracting more than 25,000 youth, and this weekend they plan to fill Wachovia Stadium in Philadelphia.

They claim their religion and values are under attack but, amidst spectacular lightshows, hummers, Navy Seals, and military imagery on stage, it is Battle Cry that has declared war on everyone else! Ron Luce, Battle Cry's leader and Teen Mania president and founder, makes clear this is not mere metaphor: "This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent -- the 'forceful' ones -- will lay hold of the kingdom."

A glimpse at Battle Cry's Honor Academy, which trains 500 youth each year and preaches that homosexuality and masturbation are sins, reveals a lot about what kind of society they are fighting for. Interns are not allowed to listen to secular music, watch R-rated movies, or date. Men are not allowed to use the Internet unsupervised and the length of women's skirts is regulated. The logic behind this, that men must be protected from the sin of sexual temptation, is the same logic that drives Islamic fundamentalists to shroud women in burqas!

Full story: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_795.shtml

[footstepsfrom#27]

Without a doubt, the two most polarized groups in this country, and the two that missunderstand each other most completely...and are the least willing to strive for any mutally acceptable common ground...are the politically involved spectrum of Christianity and those who fear them and spend every waking moment decrying them as dangerous facists, subversives, revolutionaries etc...

The biggest waste of time EVER...is engaging in this constant drumbeat of anger, suspicion and hysteria. Pontificating ad-infinitum, ad-nauseum on the culture wars is rapidly replacing race yapping as the favorite past time of people who think that 1) they have a clue what they're talking about, or 2) anyone really cares what they have to say.

Carry on...;D

[BABronco]

L.A. BRONCOS FAN I call bs on that. Back during spring break I had the oppurtunity to go to Acquire the fire aka The Battle Cry. The battle this man is talking about is the most important battle people will ever fight. Sad thing is that a good amount of people don't even know there is a battle going on. This battle, my friend, is the battle for your soul. Its a battle for glory. Right now, it's apparent that we (christians) arent fairing so well. The monoriting thing is a lie. My uncle is involved with this group and they do no such thing. The skirt thing is a choice, however if your a follower of Christ (major difference between a "Christian" and a follower of Christ) The Bible says to set yourself apart from the world and not to give into their temptaitions. Right now if you went to your typical hs or college campus you would see skirts revealing just about as much skin as it would if it wasnt there. So they (followers of Christ) are told to seperate themselves from the world, so they do it because it's what the book says. The dating thing is a lie. However, thats one heck of a story. Btw, for the christians on this bord I urge you to go to this if you can. Take your kids because its the most amazing experience of your life.

[Spider]

L.A. BRONCOS FAN I call bs on that. Back during spring break I had the oppurtunity to go to Acquire the fire aka The Battle Cry. The battle this man is talking about is the most important battle people will ever fight. Sad thing is that a good amount of people don't even know there is a battle going on. This battle, my friend, is the battle for your soul. Its a battle for glory. Right now, it's apparent that we (christians) arent fairing so well. .
winning that fight is hard , as long as Falwel , Robertson , Phelps are out there ..... take me for example I see those guys , I dont see salvation , I dont see love , what i do see is a political agenda , Greed , coruption , Just like with Jesse Jackson and Sharpton , these guys are no more man of god , then I am , they just use the man of god front , to push an agenda ....... i dont mean to be harsh , but when you have what went down at the air force academy , Falwell and his people blaming 9-11 on us on 9-12 , this drives a wedge .......like this , I m a democrat , Pro choice , but I dont use abortion me and the wife have 6 kids , Triplets have been a huge , I mean huge labor of love , we culd have taken the easy route but didnt , Not beacuse Falwell , and the rest want it outlawed , Catholic church doesnt condone it ,cause it goes against what i believe , but i dont force my beliefs on others , if they ask I will help all I can , but in the end they have to live with the choice .................

[Spider]

lets say my 14 year old Daughter in 4 years comes home pregnant , I am not going to blow a gasket , kick her out of the house , tell her to get an abortion , I will do everything to make her life easier , encourage her to keep the baby , me and mom will be there for her , both as emotional support as well as fiscal ....
it will be my grandbaby ...........Goverment or Religion wont play a role .....

[SteveTensi13]

lets say my 14 year old Daughter in 4 years comes home pregnant , I am not going to blow a gasket , kick her out of the house , tell her to get an abortion , I will do everything to make her life easier , encourage her to keep the baby , me and mom will be there for her , both as emotional support as well as fiscal ....
it will be my grandbaby ...........Goverment or Religion wont play a role .....

And that Spider will be her downfall!!If you coddle her and make everything "ok" all you are doing is rewarding bad behavior!! Now, she will think "Boy, that was easy, I think I'll have another, what they hey!"

I see that way too often in my line of work. Before you know it that little 14 year old is 18, missing out on life with her "friends" and leaves the child(ren) at home with grampy and grammy while she is out partying. You Democrats, you really love rewarding bad behavior, it's like some sort of entitlement thing you got going there!!

[Spider]

And that Spider will be her downfall!!If you coddle her and make everything "ok" all you are doing is rewarding bad behavior!! Now, she will think "Boy, that was easy, I think I'll have another, what they hey!"

I see that way too often in my line of work. Before you know it that little 14 year old is 18, missing out on life with her "friends" and leaves the child(ren) at home with grampy and grammy while she is out partying. You Democrats, you really love rewarding bad behavior, it's like some sort of entitlement thing you got going there!!
Shut the Fúck up , you ignore crime cause of the political party commiting the Crime , then have the balls to tell me whats what ? I suggest you get your own morals in line son . Dont try to clean my house you prick

[Spider]

you cóck sucker if you was standing in front o me talking that Shít I would bust out every tooth in your head

[BABronco]

I'm glad you wouldnt turn your back on your daughter. That would be heart breaking. Yeah, there are alot of "christians" who have there agenda and several who are just out there to make a buck. Those are guys who were more than likely at one times followers of Christ yes sadly slipped into the term secular christians. Which might as well not be. There are people in every group you look at and those are several that bring shame to followers of Christ.

[Spider]

I'm glad you wouldnt turn your back on your daughter. That would be heart breaking. Yeah, there are alot of "christians" who have there agenda and several who are just out there to make a buck. Those are guys who were more than likely at one times followers of Christ yes sadly slipped into the term secular christians. Which might as well not be. There are people in every group you look at and those are several that bring shame to followers of Christ.
just get that message out . you win more souls ;D

[SteveTensi13]

you cóck sucker if you was standing in front o me talking that Shít I would bust out every tooth in your head


Mmmm, sorry I eat truckers for breakfast. I put at least two or three out of service in a weeks time. Gotta hate those broken headlamps!!

[Spider]

Mmmm, sorry I eat truckers for breakfast. I put at least two or three out of service in a weeks time. Gotta hate those broken headlamps!!
I figgered you for a crooked cop , but then most of you are , but you wouldnt be the first DOT man I knocked on his ass ..........Odesa Missiouri ......

[SteveTensi13]

I figgered you for a crooked cop , but then most of you are , but you wouldnt be the first DOT man I knocked on his ass ..........Odesa Missiouri ......

Whats crooked about it? A burnt out headlamp are perfectly legal reasons to put a truck out of service in New Mexico. Furthermore, I am not a DOT officer. I am the "big Bear"; New Mexico State Police baby, black and grey through and through, mind your P's and Q's coming through my State.

[SteveTensi13]

And furthermore, I have a TASER stun gun. 50,000 volts of fun! Ever hear the term "ride the lightning"?

[Spider]

Whats crooked about it? A burnt out headlamp are perfectly legal reasons to put a truck out of service in New Mexico. Furthermore, I am not a DOT officer. I am the "big Bear"; New Mexico State Police baby, black and grey through and through, mind your P's and Q's coming through my State.
just another crooked cop............you guys cant be trusted.you know it I know ....

[Spider]

And furthermore, I have a TASER stun gun. 50,000 volts of fun! Ever hear the term "ride the lightning"?
taser Hilarious!...next you might get a bb gun clown

[Spider]

Whats crooked about it? A burnt out headlamp are perfectly legal reasons to put a truck out of service in New Mexico. Furthermore, I am not a DOT officer. I am the "big Bear"; New Mexico State Police baby, black and grey through and through, mind your P's and Q's coming through my State.
I knew throwing litter out the window on I-25 and mile post 256 was a good idea

[alkemical]

http://www.phillyimc.org/en/2006/05/23241.shtml

On May 12th & 13th, Battle Cry brought 15,000 to the Wachovia Spectrum for a two day Christian Evangelical rally, teach-in and music fest meant to hype youth into “God’s Army.”
This highly organized movement aims to make the U.S. and the whole world a religious dictatorship.


Battle Cry is a highly organized movement endorsed by Jerry Farwell, Pat Roberson and Rick Santorum. Battle Cry has declared war on popular culture and the enemies, the enemies being: MTV; VH1; BET; the media (that promotes violence, sex and alcoholism); “Victoria showing all her secrets”; and the internet (that allows youth to watch pornography). Battle Cry, an initiative out of Teen Mania is lead by Ron Luce, a man who was appointed by George W. Bush to the White House Advisory Commission on Drug-Free Communities. According to their literature and their speeches on stage, they see a moral crisis in society that is sucking youth into promiscuity, pornography, and violence – in essence, a morality that is far from a literal interpretation of the Bible. The Battle Cry does not begin when the youth and youth pastors enter the stadium event, THEIR BATTLE CRY HAPPENS WHEN THEY LEAVE AND ARE CHARGED WITH RECRUITING AND BUILDING THIS MOVEMENT.