Greatest President ever?

[noneubizwax]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.
LOL :rofl:

Are you practicing for a stand up act somewhere? That was great!

[noneubizwax]

LOL :rofl:

Are you practicing for a stand up act somewhere? That was great!

Look son sometimes things are not what they seem. You watch within the next 2 years people will be searching for a replacement to one of the worlds greatest leaders. Hopefully we can find someone who is atleast half as brave/smart/charismatic as Bush.

[TailgateNut]

Look son sometimes things are not what they seem. You watch within the next 2 years people will be searching for a replacement to one of the worlds greatest leaders. Hopefully we can find someone who is atleast half as brave/smart/charismatic as Bush.

....one of the worlds greatest leaders?????Great with what? Lying, breaking the law, busting the Bank!
If we get someone half as brave, he'd have to be spineless.
If we get someone half as smart, .....IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Oh, and tell me how things are not as they seem!

[ak1971]

Chester A Arthur is still the best

[noneubizwax]

....one of the worlds greatest leaders?????Great with what? Lying, breaking the law, busting the Bank!
If we get someone half as brave, he'd have to be spineless.
If we get someone half as smart, .....IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Oh, and tell me how things are not as they seem!

Dude sometimes you have to "bend" the rules inorder to do whats best for the people.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Look son sometimes things are not what they seem. You watch within the next 2 years people will be searching for a replacement to one of the worlds greatest leaders. Hopefully we can find someone who is atleast half as brave/smart/charismatic as Bush.

Hilarious!

Click on me (http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=4wheeldrive&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.speedfactory.net%2Fffg%2Fwav% 2Ftazlaf.wav) or me (http://jc-schools.net/Sounds/not_in_kansas.wav) or me (http://jc-schools.net/Sounds/Idiota-1.wav)

[TailgateNut]

Dude sometimes you have to "bend" the rules inorder to do whats best for the people.


I am trying not to put you in the ignore bin, but I see it as unavoidable if you continue with this utter nonsense!

[Old Dude]

http://www.hereinreality.com/presidential/

[noneubizwax]

I am trying not to put you in the ignore bin, but I see it as unavoidable if you continue with this utter nonsense!

Why are you afraid of honest debate???

[spdirty]

Back on topic, i have to say Washington. After him, it has to be Jefferson for the Louisiana purchase. Then Abe. Then Raygun.

And the guy who could be one of the greatest presidents ever (although he doesn't stand a chance at being elected) would be Tancredo.

Once I saw this thread I thought it might be a good one till he said his number one was Bush, now the whole thread is gonna go to ****.
Why don't you guys cut him some slack and just put up who you think. I don't agree with him, neither do you, but just agree to disagree and write down who you think is the greatest prez ever.

[Hotrod]

I would have to say Washington or Abe.

[TailgateNut]

Why are you afraid of honest debate???

An honest debate would be welcome, but I can HONESTLY say Bush is on the other end of the spectrum...the Dumba$$ end, the Failure end, the dis-honest end...!

[TailgateNut]

Back on topic, i have to say Washington. After him, it has to be Jefferson for the Louisiana purchase. Then Abe. Then Raygun.

And the guy who could be one of the greatest presidents ever (although he doesn't stand a chance at being elected) would be Tancredo.

Once I saw this thread I thought it might be a good one till he said his number one was Bush, now the whole thread is gonna go to ****.
Why don't you guys cut him some slack and just put up who you think. I don't agree with him, neither do you, but just agree to disagree and write down who you think is the greatest prez ever.


Geez, this is like discussing the merits of good Malt scotch with a Jim Beam drinker!

[spdirty]

Geez, this is like discussing the merits of good Malt scotch with a Jim Beam drinker!


So who do you think is the greatest president ever?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Look son sometimes things are not what they seem. You watch within the next 2 years people will be searching for a replacement to one of the worlds greatest leaders. Hopefully we can find someone who is atleast half as brave/smart/charismatic as Bush.
I'm definitely not your son and during the next two years, the more probable scenario is, people will be cheering the impeachment of this war mongering, lying simpleton.

[noneubizwax]

I'm definitely not your son and during the next two years, the more probable scenario is, people will be cheering the impeachment of this war mongering, lying simpleton.

Impeach Mr. Bush Ha! right. Take the blinders off man this president has had to deal with more adversity then any before him and once hes done cleaning things up the next President should have smooth sailing.

[Broncos Rule]

How's the fishin'

Not so good eh?

[TailgateNut]

So who do you think is the greatest president ever?


Old timer award would go to Lincoln.
Then I'd give JFK the nod and I'd give a nod to Clinton!

As far as the "genius" Bush goes, this is his most memorable moment of his term:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12683890/:rofl:

[spdirty]

Old timer award would go to Lincoln.
Then I'd give JFK the nod and I'd give a nod to Clinton!

As far as the "genius" Bush goes, this is his most memorable moment of his term:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12683890/:rofl:

Thank you.

Beerslug??

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Impeach Mr. Bush Ha! right. Take the blinders off man this president has had to deal with more adversity then any before him and once hes done cleaning things up the next President should have smooth sailing.

Proof that the poll takers got this one right (the 11% who have no idea what is going on in this country, let alone the world).

[noneubizwax]

You have to admit thats a pretty big perch.

[TailgateNut]

Impeach Mr. Bush Ha! right. Take the blinders off man this president has had to deal with more adversity then any before him and once hes done cleaning things up the next President should have smooth sailing.

Once he's done cleaning up??? First of all, if he had not made such a mess, he would have to do any cleaning. Second, he has already made it very clear, he's leaving the cleaning chores to the "next president", he's just good at making a mess!

[TailgateNut]

You have to admit thats a pretty big perch.

Maybe that will be his legacy. A big Fish! The only thing he's done right in six years!

[Broncos Rule]

It's hard to compare individuals over a 220 year span - kinda like the Elway vs. Unitas debate, only worse.

Best ever: Washington (there is no America without him), Lincoln (ditto).

Best of the modern era: Johnson (for Civil Rights legislation) Nixon (for EPA legislation) Reagan (for attempts at curbing growth of the Leviathan and keeping us out of a shooting war with USSR during their death throes).

BushII is quickly sliding down into the bottom 3 all time.

[W*GS]

Old timer award would go to Lincoln.
Then I'd give JFK the nod and I'd give a nod to Clinton!

JFK?

Why?

You feel bad he got shot so he musta been a good President?

[W*GS]

Best of the modern era: Johnson (for Civil Rights legislation)

Vietnam doesn't take him down a peg or two? Medicare/Medicaid, which will wreck us?

Nixon (for EPA legislation)

Hello? "Watergate" mean anything? He also mucked up Vietnam.

Reagan (for attempts at curbing growth of the Leviathan and keeping us out of a shooting war with USSR during their death throes).

Perhaps. We'll see.

[defenseman]

It's hard to compare individuals over a 220 year span - kinda like the Elway vs. Unitas debate, only worse.

Best ever: Washington (there is no America without him), Lincoln (ditto).

Best of the modern era: Johnson (for Civil Rights legislation) Nixon (for EPA legislation) Reagan (for attempts at curbing growth of the Leviathan and keeping us out of a shooting war with USSR during their death throes).

BushII is quickly sliding down into the bottom 3 all time.


I'd say this is pretty close. Clinton????!!!!!! NFW!!!!! In retrospect, he did the big NADA!!!! And I do mean NADA....however, he made for some good "old man" deviate sexual headlines. NO WAY...on Clinstone...dman

[Play2win]

There's a door in China somewhere that will "tell" you just how good of a president BUSH is...

[Rascal]

Washington, LIncoln, Jefferson, Eisenhower.

[Bronx33]

Who cares about past presidents, we need one NOW.

[watermock]

Then I'd give JFK the nod and I'd give a nod to Clinton!

Let's see here, JFK was screwing models including Monroe.

His own kid crashed in the ocean on a plane he piloted, killing all on board.

Some kennedy was accused of rape that went to trial.

Ted Kennedy ran away from a vehicualr homicede.

Now Ted Kennedy's son hits two trees and is driven home and was "Sleep Driving".

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Let's see here, JFK was screwing models including Monroe.
His own kid crashed in the ocean on a plane he piloted, killing all on board.
Some kennedy was accused of rape that went to trial.
Ted Kennedy ran away from a vehicualr homicede.
Now Ted Kennedy's son hits two trees and is driven home and was "Sleep Driving". You must have got lost, do you know where you are (in the place you're always so proud of saying you don't go to anymore)? Slow out in the main room, is it?

Did JFK's poll numbers go down when his kin was getting into all this trouble?

And you hold "screwing models including Monroe" against him?

[Rohirrim]

Washington and Lincoln. The rest of the best are distant seconds. Such a shame that Raygun will be the guy remembered for bringing down the Soviets, when all he did was continue to implement the plan already put in place by Zbigniew Brzenski. Nobody will remember Zbigniew.

Why is Bush at the bottom? Because when his moment of decision came, he ran like the coward he is ("My Pet Goat"). But this time, unlike all the other times throughout his life, he discovered that daddy couldn't bail him out. When men like Washington, Lincoln and FDR were confronted by terrifying events their moral courage was so great that fear could not gain a foothold in the country. They led by example. They led by sacrifice and demanded sacrifice from their countrymen.

Bush, on the other hand, manipulated his countrymen through the use of fear, and thereby took one of the most horrendous events in the history of the U.S. (which his arrogant incompetence no doubt helped to bring about), and used it to the advantage of his wealthy patrons and cronies, even though the results have been catastrophic to his country. He lied and manipulated the fears of his countrymen to rush us into an unnecessary, and meaningless war, which he has mis-managed now to the point of ruin. Hell, the man hasn't had the guts to veto a single bill. He must rank as one of the most inept, unable and incompetent president's in the history of the U.S. and in the final analysis, is nothing more than the ignorant tool of wealthy masters.

[W*GS]

Why is Bush at the bottom? Because when his moment of decision came, he ran like the coward he is ("My Pet Goat").

What was Bush supposed to do for those several minutes?

(What do you suppose FDR did when he was informed of Pearl Harbor?)

Knock Bush all you want, but I don't see what he could have done differently during those minutes that would have mattered one whit.

[TheDave]

I think we have a new poster child for the 100 post rule...

[Rohirrim]

What was Bush supposed to do for those several minutes?

(What do you suppose FDR did when he was informed of Pearl Harbor?)

Knock Bush all you want, but I don't see what he could have done differently during those minutes that would have mattered one whit.

The outgoing administration had warned him that terrorism was the number one issue his administration would face and he held his first meeting on terrorism 8 months later, one week before 9/11, even after receiving a PDB in July, telling him that Bin Laden was dedicated to striking the U.S. Of course, he was on vacation when he got it. I'll bet he's the first president in history to take such an early vacation in his first term. So he could have done quite a few things "differently."

Well, let's just imagine another scenario. Let's imagine that Washington or Lincoln are sitting in a chair reading a book to a room full of children and their deputy chief of staff comes up and whispers in their ears, "Sir, the country is under attack." Would they have continued to sit there for another 5 to 7 minutes with a dopey look on their faces? Perhaps the thought, "Every second counts!" might have occurred to them?

We live in moronic times. Only in such times could such sophmoric arguments be entertained. But at least we have the perfect president for these times.

[Blueflame]

I think we have a new poster child for the 100 post rule...

I dunno...this thread has been pure comedy from Post #1... I can't stop laughing. LOL Ha! :rofl:

[W*GS]

Well, let's just imagine another scenario. Let's imagine that Washington or Lincoln are sitting in a chair reading a book to a room full of children and their deputy chief of staff comes up and whispers in their ears, "Sir, the country is under attack." Would they have continued to sit there for another 5 to 7 minutes with a dopey look on their faces? Perhaps the thought, "Every second counts!" might have occurred to them?

What did FDR do when he was told Pearl Harbor was attacked?

[Rohirrim]

What did FDR do when he was told Pearl Harbor was attacked?

I have no idea. I thought we were talking about Bush? We have a film record of what The Buffoon in Chief did.

If you're trying to draw me into a discussion about the Pearl Harbor conspiracy of FDR, I'm not going to bite. ;)

[alkemical]

This thread has as much potential as the chiefs have a shot at the superbowl.

[W*GS]

If you're trying to draw me into a discussion about the Pearl Harbor conspiracy of FDR, I'm not going to bite.

Ahhh, no.

What should Bush have done, and, would those have actions made any difference?

[alkemical]

(answer to the thread)


...... anyone i hold in my hand(s).

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ahhh, no.

What should Bush have done, and, would those have actions made any difference?
About stopping the second aircraft from hitting the second tower you mean?

[Rascal]

Bush being all powerful should have reached up into the sky and smitted the terroists controlled plane out of the sky and then he should have held up the WTC building himself.

[W*GS]

About stopping the second aircraft from hitting the second tower you mean?

Can you show that Bush's inaction allowed that to happen? Was everyone else just sitting around doing nothing?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Can you show that Bush's inaction allowed that to happen? Was everyone else just sitting around doing nothing?
Doesn't matter what everyone else was doing, Bush is the only one with the power to down a commercial aircraft.

When did he know the second aircraft was hijacked? How long did he have to make that decision?

[W*GS]

Doesn't matter what everyone else was doing, Bush is the only one with the power to down a commercial aircraft.

When did he know the second aircraft was hijacked? How long did he have to make that decision?[/QUOTE]

You seem to believe that those few minutes were absolutely critical. Can you prove that?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

When did he know the second aircraft was hijacked? How long did he have to make that decision?

You seem to believe that those few minutes were absolutely critical. Can you prove that?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, do you? That's why I asked, how long did he know that second plane was hijacked before it killed over a thousand people?

[Rascal]

Even if we knew the second plane had been hijacked, and new that the first one was not an accident (two big if's) I don't know if (another big if) we had enough time to launch fighters to bring down the other plane. And by we I mean the people with authority to pass that info on to Bush or other appropriate personnel.

Until you have evidence saying otherwise it's nothing but conspiracy BS.

[W*GS]

That's why I asked, how long did he know that second plane was hijacked before it killed over a thousand people?

The 9/11 Commission Report has a reasonably complete timeline.

You tell us.

[RunByDesign]

When did he know the second aircraft was hijacked? How long did he have to make that decision?

You seem to believe that those few minutes were absolutely critical. Can you prove that?

Debateur Semantique. :oyvey:

[ak1971]

lets not for get these fine presidents,
http://www.paulsilhan.com/hallpres.htm

[alkemical]

Here's a question:

If the US was under attack and with President Bush's where-about's known by the PR campaign that he would be at the elementary school, why did the security detail not remove bush from premise and into protective detail?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Even if we knew the second plane had been hijacked, and new that the first one was not an accident (two big if's) I don't know if (another big if) we had enough time to launch fighters to bring down the other plane. And by we I mean the people with authority to pass that info on to Bush or other appropriate personnel.

Until you have evidence saying otherwise it's nothing but conspiracy BS.
Fighters were scrambled at 8:46 am and airborne at 8:52 am.

[Rascal]

First plane crashed at 845
Second plane at 903
Bush was told at 910 of the events

[Rascal]

Fighters were scrambled at 8:46 am and airborne at 8:52 am.

Link and where were those planes?

[Hotrod]

I think Mr Bush is just a puppet to the leaders of the NWO. His job was to let the attack happen so that we would give up our freedoms and then when the "grays" (some kind of popular alien people) come to eat our brains we will be much more willing. Dont even get me started on chem trails and floride in our drinking water which allows the CIA to read our minds.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Link and where were those planes? http://tinyurl.com/evnqq
Apparently Bush didn't give the order to shoot down any planes until after the third aircraft had crashed into the Pentagon.

(After 8:45 A.M.) Bush is asked by a reporter "Do you know what's going on in New York?" He responds that he does, and says he will have something about it later as he leaves his hotel for Booker Elementary School. [ABC News, 9/11/01]

(After 8:46 A.M.) Bush will say in a speech later that evening: "Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response plans."

Bush's motorcade then leaves for Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. [8:30 A.M. Washington Post, 1/27/02] Note that the Washington Post time is incorrect, because of the previous question.

(Before 9:00 A.M.) Following Bush on the way to Booker Elementary School, a news photographer overhears a radio transmission saying that Press Secretary Ari Fleischer would be needed on arrival to discuss reports of some sort of crash. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01]

9:00 A.M. According to the official timeline, only now does White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card tell Bush a plan has crashed into the World Trade Center. So, supposedly, Bush learns about this attack 15 minutes after millions have heard about it on TV, and 5 minutes after he told reporters he already knew about it.

As Bush arrives at the Booker Elementary School, he is whisked into a holding room and updated on the situation via telephone by National Security Advisor Rice. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01, Time, 9/12/01] Why doesn't Bush cancel his completely meaningless photo-op at the elementary school at this point?

(9:01 A.M.) Bush later makes the following statement. "And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I used to fly myself, and I said, 'There's one terrible pilot.' and I said, 'It must have been a horrible accident.' But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it." [CNN, 12/4/01]

Given that there actually was no film footage of the first attack on TV until much later (and no footage of the plane actually hitting the tower), isn't this a clear lie to make it seem he didn't know what was happening? By 8:38, NORAD knew that Flight 11 was hijacked, and by 8:43, they knew Flight 176 was hijacked. As the New York Times points out, they also probably knew Flight 77 was hijacked a few minutes after 8:48. [New York Times, 9/15/01]

9:02 to approx. 9:29 A.M.) Bush reads a story to 18 Booker Elementary School second-graders about a girl's pet goat

[Hotwheelz]

http://tinyurl.com/evnqq
Apparently Bush didn't give the order to shoot down any planes until after the third aircraft had crashed into the Pentagon.

(After 8:45 A.M.) Bush is asked by a reporter "Do you know what's going on in New York?" He responds that he does, and says he will have something about it later as he leaves his hotel for Booker Elementary School. [ABC News, 9/11/01]

(After 8:46 A.M.) Bush will say in a speech later that evening: "Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response plans."

Bush's motorcade then leaves for Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. [8:30 A.M. Washington Post, 1/27/02] Note that the Washington Post time is incorrect, because of the previous question.

(Before 9:00 A.M.) Following Bush on the way to Booker Elementary School, a news photographer overhears a radio transmission saying that Press Secretary Ari Fleischer would be needed on arrival to discuss reports of some sort of crash. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01]

9:00 A.M. According to the official timeline, only now does White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card tell Bush a plan has crashed into the World Trade Center. So, supposedly, Bush learns about this attack 15 minutes after millions have heard about it on TV, and 5 minutes after he told reporters he already knew about it.

As Bush arrives at the Booker Elementary School, he is whisked into a holding room and updated on the situation via telephone by National Security Advisor Rice. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01, Time, 9/12/01] Why doesn't Bush cancel his completely meaningless photo-op at the elementary school at this point?

(9:01 A.M.) Bush later makes the following statement. "And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I used to fly myself, and I said, 'There's one terrible pilot.' and I said, 'It must have been a horrible accident.' But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it." [CNN, 12/4/01]

Given that there actually was no film footage of the first attack on TV until much later (and no footage of the plane actually hitting the tower), isn't this a clear lie to make it seem he didn't know what was happening? By 8:38, NORAD knew that Flight 11 was hijacked, and by 8:43, they knew Flight 176 was hijacked. As the New York Times points out, they also probably knew Flight 77 was hijacked a few minutes after 8:48. [New York Times, 9/15/01]

9:02 to approx. 9:29 A.M.) Bush reads a story to 18 Booker Elementary School second-graders about a girl's pet goat


End thread.:thumbs: :thanku:

[Rock Chalk]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.
George Washington.

Why?

Of all the PResidents we have had, he is the ONLY one that didnt want to be President.

[Hotrod]

George Washington.

Why?

Of all the PResidents we have had, he is the ONLY one that didnt want to be President.

Actually thats a damn powerful reason right there. :thumbsup:

[elsid13]

My favorite president of all time:

Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/Scott/images/01front/S007.jpg

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

My favorite president of all time:

Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/Scott/images/01front/S007.jpg

Certainly one of the only independent thinkers, which is good in my book.

[Rohirrim]

So, let me see if I've got this straight, since the Commander in Chief of the United States couldn't do anything about 9/11, once the attacks were under way, he might as well just sit in a elementary school classroom and read children's literature. Is that it? I suppose that would at least keep him out of the way.

BTW, a German reporter asked Bush today what his best and worst moments in office were so far. Bush replied that the worst moment was 9/11 and the best moment was catching a seven pound bass.

We're in good hands, America. :thumbs:

[spdirty]

Teddy was a man's man.

[spdirty]

BTW, a German reporter asked Bush today what his best and worst moments in office were so far. Bush replied that the worst moment was 9/11 and the best moment was catching a seven pound bass.

We're in good hands, America. :thumbs:


Its called self depricating humor. Funny how some take it seriously.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If you're trying to draw me into a discussion about the Pearl Harbor conspiracy of FDR, I'm not going to bite. ;)

But this is the only recourse a BushCo brownie hound like W*GS has open to him.

It's not like he can defend the frat boy's actual record or something.

:D

[DBruleU]

Its called self depricating humor. Funny how some take it seriously.

haha honestly! Some people don't get that. Lighten up.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

When did he know the second aircraft was hijacked? How long did he have to make that decision?

You seem to believe that those few minutes were absolutely critical. Can you prove that?

Bottom line:

The frat boy received numerous warnings from multiple intelligence sources that al Qaeda was planning suicide attacks inside the U.S. and he did nothing. Nada. Zip. Prior to 9/11, the chimp misadministration didn't even have a counterterrorism apparatus in place. The junta round-filed critical intel on Bin Laden/al Qaeda gathered during Clinton's watch.

Had the Dim Son misadministration done everything it could do to prevent the 9/11 attacks and still failed, then perhaps we could forgive it.

However, such was not the case - Bush did NOTHING.

[SoCalBronco]

The best in no particular order:

Lincoln
FDR
Nixon
TR
Truman
Washington

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Best:

Washington
Lincoln
FDR

Worst:

Adams
Hoover
Raygun
Bush 43

[spdirty]

Best:

Washington
Lincoln
FDR

Worst:

Adams
Hoover
Raygun
Bush 43


WOW!!!! You actually have a Republican in there as the best?!?!?!? OMG, miracles never cease!

[DBruleU]

Best:

Washington
Lincoln
FDR

Worst:

Adams
Hoover
Raygun
Bush 43

Can you really say our current president is one of the worst ever, even since his legacy isnt over yet? Considering most people, if not all, rate presidents after their presidency is over, in order to allow time to tell the real outcome.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Can you really say our current president is one of the worst ever, even since his legacy isnt over yet? Considering most people, if not all, rate presidents after their presidency is over, in order to allow time to tell the real outcome.
Are you serious? He lied to attack a country and start a war with that country which was absolutely no threat to us (killing and maiming thousands of Americans, not to mention the economical costs which will be over a trillion in VA costs alone), is spending the country into bankruptcy, is spying on Americans in their homes, wants arab countries to control our military installations and ports, wants to grant amnesty to 20 million plus criminals and launched the great Medicare Fraud on us.

His place in history was sealed before the second election but his party line supporters chose to close their eyes and ears and saddle us with at least 4 more years of THE worst president in history.

[Rock Chalk]

Are you serious? He lied to attack a country and start a war with that country which was absolutely no threat to us (killing and maiming thousands of Americans, not to mention the economical costs which will be over a trillion in VA costs alone), is spending the country into bankruptcy, is spying on Americans in their homes, wants arab countries to control our military installations and ports, wants to grant amnesty to 20 million plus criminals and launched the great Medicare Fraud on us.

His place in history was sealed before the second election but his party line supporters chose to close their eyes and ears and saddle us with at least 4 more years of THE worst president in history.
I dont necessarily disagree with anything, just pointing out your racism.

[Rock Chalk]

Best:

Washington
Lincoln
FDR

Worst:

Adams
Hoover
Raygun
Bush 43
You are a sad, pathetic socialist if you think Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever.

Sad, sad, sad. Dont ever come to Texas, please.

[Hogan11]

You are a sad, pathetic socialist if you think Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever.

Sad, sad, sad. Dont ever come to Texas, please.

Well Reagan did put us into a pretty deep hole deficitwise....but who cares about that?

Actually my fave is William Henry Harrison....I think he lasted about 30 days before dying of pneumonia from his long winded Iggy speech.....there's a lesson to be learned in that.

[spdirty]

is spending the country into bankruptcy, wants arab countries to control our military installations and ports, wants to grant amnesty to 20 million plus criminals and launched the great Medicare Fraud on us.

We can agree on this, which is why my support for the man has dwindled greatly in the past couple years.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I dont necessarily disagree with anything, just pointing out your racism. Racism? If he wanted to hand control over to the French I'd call them...
French. Do you have another name that the arabs prefer to be called?

You are a sad, pathetic socialist if you think Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever.
Sad, sad, sad. Dont ever come to Texas, please.
You'd do well to do a little research on exactly what Reagan did during his tenure.

[Spider]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.
I havent laughed so hard since I saw a SWIFT driver backing up at a truckstop in Rawlins Wyoming .........
Bush is a fúcking idiot

[Spider]

You are a sad, pathetic socialist if you think Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever.

Sad, sad, sad. Dont ever come to Texas, please.
Reagan had some points , but dude He had more people in shít more then Nixon .... Rreagan put us in a deep hole as for $$$ , and the collapse of the Soviet Union was bound to happen communism doesnt work , Even chinia is learning this, ..Just so happens Reagan was on Watch when it happened , .....then Beruit 1983 ...but Reagan wasnt all bad either though .....

[gunns]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.

Ok, I know this thread is five pages long now but just got here and read this. This is a joke right? I mean this guy does know that Bush is what caused a lot of the "very difficult time", doesn't he? I'll read on and hopefully feel better.

[gunns]

You are a sad, pathetic socialist if you think Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever.

Sad, sad, sad. Dont ever come to Texas, please.


No worry about that, I've seen what kind of Presidents come out of Texas, 3 of the worst to name a few. I love it when people credit Reagan with the Berlin Wall. Yep, "bring down that wall" is what did it! :~ohyah!:

[gunns]

Best of the modern era: Johnson (for Civil Rights legislation)

You obviously were not alive during his term. He was one of the worst and I guarantee you that Civil Rights legislation was not his. It started with Kennedy and was brought forth by his brother Bobby and Johnson had no choice but to put it in. He wouldn't have, the guy was a racist pig. Besides it was his way of shedding some of the shame for his part in John's assassination.

[spdirty]

No worry about that, I've seen what kind of Presidents come out of Texas, 3 of the worst to name a few. I love it when people credit Reagan with the Berlin Wall. Yep, "bring down that wall" is what did it! :~ohyah!:


How about "I have just signed legislation banning Russia...we begin bombing in 5 minutes."

One of my all time favorite Raygun quotes.

[spdirty]

Besides it was his way of shedding some of the shame for his part in John's assassination.


Where's your evidence?

[gunns]

Can you show that Bush's inaction allowed that to happen? Was everyone else just sitting around doing nothing?

Of course it wasn't Bush's inaction. He just says "what do I do now" and whoever was in charge of getting planes out of the air at that time was on the pot.

[gunns]

Where's your evidence?

To state the obvious, that was my opinion.

[gunns]

How about "I have just signed legislation banning Russia...we begin bombing in 5 minutes."

One of my all time favorite Raygun quotes.

And that's all it was, a quote. He didn't even remember it 5 minutes later.

[SoCalBronco]

You obviously were not alive during his term. He was one of the worst and I guarantee you that Civil Rights legislation was not his. It started with Kennedy and was brought forth by his brother Bobby and Johnson had no choice but to put it in. He wouldn't have, the guy was a racist pig. Besides it was his way of shedding some of the shame for his part in John's assassination.

Kennedy talked a good deal on civil rights but he lacked the skills that Johnson had refined as Senate Majority Leader for years in working with the congress to get stuff done. Johnson's Great Society programs did alot for people in need. I dont understand why you liberals cant give the man any credit for anything. He accomplished worlds of liberal accomplishments. Fair Housing laws, Medicare, job programs etc. Jack Kennedy accomplished very little. Even his Peace Corps program wasn't his idea, rather it was originally concieved and introduced by Hubert Humphrey in the Senate in 1958. As a Senator, Jack Kennedy was basically a undistinguished backbencher with good looks and a powerful father. That is how he got to where he was. Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon actually worked their way up and actually achieved monumental accomplishments during their presidencies despite their own flaws. I know you guys hate Johnson for Vietnam and his alleged role in JFK's assassination, but he accomplished alot of the types of achievements that you folks value. Why not give him credit for using his legislative skill to get things done? He made huge differences for people.

People always talk about things like the Cuban Missile Crisis and Kennedy's work on the Soviets, but its vastly overrated. The US had approximately a 15:1 advantage over the Soviets in the early 60s in ABMs in addition to a technological advantage. There was never going to be a "nuclear exchange" of any kind. To his credit though, Kennedy deftly dealt with the situation, although made alot of political hay over it in the 62 midterms. Alot of people like to rag on Nixon as being "too political" but there was a little known "Second" Cuban Missile Crisis in late 1970, which was very effectively dealt with by the President, without creating a public stir and without using it for his political advantage in those mid term elections, but you wont read about it, because historians tend to marginalize and minimize the accomplishments of Presidents they dislike. People also wont read about the "Midnight in Moscow" episode in 72 when President Nixon was faced with a decision to go with something that would politically benefit him (getting a deal done at the much hyped summit) or holding out for what Kissinger felt was crucial for America. He went with the latter, risking that the summit would blow up in his face in terms of going home without a deal, which would have been crushing. No one reads about (and therefore cannot appreciate) these things. Instead, we hear about Kennedy's grace and charm and alot of hogwash.

I'll give Kennedy some credit on finally reaching some kind of meaningful start to nuclear arms restriction with the Test Ban treaty, although it was minor in nature and ofcourse nowhere comparable to the ABM Treaty reached about a decade later.

[Spider]

JFK ..... ask not what your country can do for you , but what you can do for your country ....... another from JFK... Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
FDR ....... Confidence... thrives only on honesty, on honor, on the sacredness of obligation, on faithful performance. Without them, it cannot live.
another from FDR ......The country needs and, unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it; if it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
Teddy ...... far and away the best prize life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing .....
Harry S. Truman
America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination, and unbeatable determination to do the job at hand......... somthing our current president needs to read
These guys were leaders , they just didnt spout this stuff , they practiced what they preached .......
these quotes wont fit on a bumper sticker , no catchy slogan , just hard cold honest advice

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

We can agree on this, which is why my support for the man has dwindled greatly in the past couple years.

Just remember it is congress that sets the spending. the President can jawbone and lobby and must sign the bills, but except for a relatively small discretionary budget, congress should shoulder the blame. If they don't have the guts to stand up to the president then we don't have our system of checks and balances.

[Garcia Bronco]

Without a doubt the best President this country has had was Andrew Jackson. He was a dueling President.

"What? You disagree me?! Get the pistols."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are a sad, pathetic socialist if you think Reagan was one of the worst presidents ever.

You're an ignorant right-wing sheep if you don't understand the many ways Red Ink Ron hosed this country.

From Iran/Contra to S&L scandals to the record number of criminal convictions in his administration to gutting Carter's energy policies (which, BTW, anticipated our current crisis and attempted to do something about it 30 years ago, but Red Ink chose to pander to Big Oil instead) to the whole "greed is good" free market as government swindle, this crook paved the way for the GeeDubyas of America.

Dont ever come to Texas, please.

No amount of money could entice me to set foot in that backward-ass cultural sink hole.

[spdirty]

No amount of money could entice me to set foot in that backward-ass cultural sink hole.

Don't come to Colorado either.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Don't come to Colorado either.

Newsflash:

CO is no longer Dumbya country.

Therefore, if anybody doesn't belong there, it is you.

Utah or Nebraska might be more your speed - Dim Son still has a slight positive net approval rating in those two states.

:D

[spdirty]

Newsflash:

CO is no longer Dumbya country.

Therefore, if anybody doesn't belong there, it is you.

Utah or Nebraska might be more your speed - Dim Son still has a slight positive net approval rating in those two states.

:D

And if it weren't for Colorado, Bush would never have been elected. And other than downtown Denver and the peoples republic of Boulder, its still as bright red as it gets. So just stay the hell out of here.:D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And if it weren't for Colorado, Bush would never have been elected.

???

And other than downtown Denver and the peoples republic of Boulder, its still as bright red as it gets.

So what?

All that really matters in the end is that the majority of voters in CO don't approve of the chimp.

So just stay the hell out of here.:D

Sounds like somebody has watched way too many Clint Eastwood movies.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And if it weren't for some partisan hacks on the SCOTUS, Bush would never have been selected.

Fixed it for ya. :D

[Blueflame]

Can you really say our current president is one of the worst ever, even since his legacy isnt over yet? Considering most people, if not all, rate presidents after their presidency is over, in order to allow time to tell the real outcome.

When his propped-up approval ratings are hovering at 30% (more or less...means that more than half probably disapprove), yeah, I think one can safely say he'll be widely viewed as one of the worst ever.

[Blueflame]

And if it weren't for Colorado, Bush would never have been elected. And other than downtown Denver and the peoples republic of Boulder, its still as bright red as it gets. So just stay the hell out of here.:D

Aren't you forgetting Florida ('00) and Ohio ('04)? Seems to me those states were pivotal and both had Secretaries of State who were also Bush campaign chairmen... oh, and both also had widespread reports of voting machine "irregularities"....

[Atlas]

My favorite president of all time:

Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/Scott/images/01front/S007.jpg

ROUGHRIDERS

[Atlas]

The best in no particular order:

Lincoln
FDR
Nixon
TR
Truman
Washington

take out Nixon and Truman and put in Jefferson and Wilson

[Atlas]

No amount of money could entice me to set foot in that backward-ass cultural sink hole.

What?? You don't like Texas why I oughta hop into my 78 Ford pickup with the 4 rebel flags stickers, the 2 redneck stickers and the "No Fear" emblum on the back window and go kick your California ASSSSS.

How long of a drive is it to L.A.?? I better stock up with 16 cans of chewing tabacco! How dare you Hollywood liberal pussies!!
Don't mess with TexASS!!
http://www.ohmyhead.com/ofl/stuff/dream_06-11-04/pickup.jpg

[alkemical]

texas is going to become mexico again

[spdirty]

Aren't you forgetting Florida ('00) and Ohio ('04)? Seems to me those states were pivotal and both had Secretaries of State who were also Bush campaign chairmen... oh, and both also had widespread reports of voting machine "irregularities"....


No kidding...and had Colorado went to Gore, Gore wouldve won.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No kidding...and had Colorado went to Gore, Gore wouldve won.
So all the people who voted for this idiot the second time around would be considered....what?

[TailgateNut]

What?? You don't like Texas why I oughta hop into my 78 Ford pickup with the 4 rebel flags stickers, the 2 redneck stickers and the "No Fear" emblum on the back window and go kick your California ASSSSS.

How long of a drive is it to L.A.?? I better stock up with 16 cans of chewing tabacco! How dare you Hollywood liberal pussies!!
Don't mess with TexASS!!
http://www.ohmyhead.com/ofl/stuff/dream_06-11-04/pickup.jpg


Nobody likes Texa$$, except Texans!;D

[Spider]

one thing about texas . you get away from the big citys , down deep in the heart of texas , you wont meet a better class of people , get into Dallas , houston , San Antonio , Austin , all bets are off ......

[clarker]

Racism? If he wanted to hand control over to the French I'd call them...
French. Do you have another name that the arabs prefer to be called?


You'd do well to do a little research on exactly what Reagan did during his tenure.Why not just say you don't like turning them over to a forgin country. Why point out one or the other. My guess is that you really are racist against Arabs or don't like people reminding you that Clinton made the same deal with England and freaking China of all countries.

[clarker]

No kidding...and had Colorado went to Gore, Gore wouldve won.Hell if Gore could have won his own damn state he would have been President.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Why not just say you don't like turning them over to a forgin country. Why point out one or the other. My guess is that you really are racist against Arabs or don't like people reminding you that Clinton made the same deal with England and freaking China of all countries.
Are you serious? He didn't try and turn over port security to the Chinese , Russians, Italians, or Mexicans but to the Arabs.

Only an ignorant person would construe calling an Arab an......Arab, as
racist.

Arab: a member of the Semitic people of the Arabian peninsula b : a member of an Arabic-speaking people.
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=Arabs

[clarker]

Are you serious? He didn't try and turn over port security to the Chinese , Russians, Italians, or Mexicans but to the Arabs.

Only an ignorant person would construe calling an Arab an......Arab, as
racist.

Arab: a member of the Semitic people of the Arabian peninsula b : a member of an Arabic-speaking people.
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=ArabsIf race has nothing to do with it why not just say our pissed that he try to turn control over them to a forign country. It shouldn't matter if the Arab or not. I don't know you so I wouldn't call you a racist, but saying your pissed that he turned them over to a Arab country makes you sound racist. I don't think that is your intent, but it is what it sounds like.

I have to admit I'm a bit touchy on the subject because my stepkids are Arab.

[Spider]

I just had a discernment about Bush ......
the Rat bastard culdnt find his own áss with both hands ......... ;D

[Hotrod]

I just had a discernment about Bush ......
the Rat bastard culdnt find his own áss with both hands ......... ;D

Dude noneurbixwax does not find you very funny ;D

[clarker]

I just had a discernment about Bush ......
the Rat bastard culdnt find his own áss with both hands ......... ;DSure he could, it is right where Rumsfeld(SP?) plants his face every day.;D

[cbs1177]

TR is my favorite and one of the greatest.
1 pioneered the FDA (pure food and drug act)
2 Allowed federal national parks (yellowstone, etc)
3 Broke up big oil (could use that today)
4 Made the "White House" the offical name of the place
5 Invited the frist black man (brooke T. Washington) to a dinner. Believed in Racial equality
6 Built the panama Canal
7 brought the first airplane for the US Air Force
8 Sent the USA navy around the world to show who ruled the waters.

all of these legacy are still part of us even today after 100 years. there are many many more but those are some of the important ones.

[Spider]

TR is my favorite and one of the greatest.
1 pioneered the FDA (pure food and drug act)
2 Allowed federal national parks (yellowstone, etc)
3 Broke up big oil (could use that today)
4 Made the "White House" the offical name of the place
5 Invited the frist black man (brooke T. Washington) to a dinner. Believed in Racial equality
6 Built the panama Canal
7 brought the first airplane for the US Air Force
8 Sent the USA navy around the world to show who ruled the waters.

all of these legacy are still part of us even today after 100 years. there are many many more but those are some of the important ones.
TR was one hellva guy , no question about it ......

[Spider]

Man we could use guys like that today , Bad ássed , hard nosed , and smart , No wavier in thier resolve to bring America to the forefront in everything ..... I guess those times called for guys like that , ever since Nixion , our congress and whitehouse has been a joke ........ 1 dumb áss scandal after another ....... Lobbying and special interest rule , we dont vote people to office , we allow lobbist to buy people an office .......then there is us , we the people , we forgot how to fight for what we believe in , when the Majority here , was in love with Bush , a handfull of us held our ground , we had very unpopular opinion , but we held our ground , faught back ......... we as a people need to get back to that ...... not bumper stickers and catchy slogans ....

[Atlas]

I just had a discernment about Bush ......
the Rat bastard culdnt find his own áss with both hands ......... ;D

Don't worry he has aids to help him with that.

[Atlas]

TR is my favorite and one of the greatest.
1 pioneered the FDA (pure food and drug act)
2 Allowed federal national parks (yellowstone, etc)
3 Broke up big oil (could use that today)
4 Made the "White House" the offical name of the place
5 Invited the frist black man (brooke T. Washington) to a dinner. Believed in Racial equality
6 Built the panama Canal
7 brought the first airplane for the US Air Force
8 Sent the USA navy around the world to show who ruled the waters.

all of these legacy are still part of us even today after 100 years. there are many many more but those are some of the important ones.

He was also one of the first Presidents to push America asa world power. Although at the time America wasn't his policies put the U.S. on the road to being a military power.

[cbs1177]

The funny thing about TR and (side note the teddy bear was named after him when he refused to shoot a mother bear b/c of the cub) any how the politcal bosses made him VP to keep him quiet. Later it was claimed you fools he is now only one heartbeat away from the Presidency. The rest is History

[Hotrod]

The funny thing about TR and (side note the teddy bear was named after him when he refused to shoot a mother bear b/c of the cub) any how the politcal bosses made him VP to keep him quiet. Later it was claimed you fools he is now only one heartbeat away from the Presidency. The rest is History

Happened in Glenwood Springs CO he used to visit the Hotel Colorado on bear hunts. After not shooting the bear the maids working at the hotel gave him a small stuffed bear and blamo the teddy bear was invented. That place is haunted by the way never EVER stay there. :nono:

[Atlas]

any how the politcal bosses made him VP to keep him quiet. Later it was claimed you fools he is now only one heartbeat away from the Presidency. The rest is History

Yep it was one of the biggest political blunders in history.

They thought the best way to get Teddy out of their hair was to make him Vice president.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Happened in Glenwood Springs CO he used to visit the Hotel Colorado on bear hunts. After not shooting the bear the maids working at the hotel gave him a small stuffed bear and blamo the teddy bear was invented. That place is haunted by the way never EVER stay there. :nono:
I stay there often when I visit up there (fishing the Frying Pan). Gives me an all over fuzzy kind a feeling when I'm there.

[cbs1177]

I give Washington and Lincoln credit mind ya. I just think Roosevelt is the greatest modern President we have ever had. He did so much that still affects our daily lives. Also for some reason at each college I had to go to I had to retake oral communications. And I always use my TR speech that I crafted in 11th grade and still brings me "A"s so by and far another reason. Yeah. I have most of his books about him. An interesting read is "When trumpets calls" the part after his life in the White House. He wasn't really happy being a civilian again. He loved the limelight. He even volutneered to lead a force in WW I but Wilson declined his offer.

[Hotrod]

I stay there often when I visit up there (fishing the Frying Pan). Gives me an all over fuzzy kind a feeling when I'm there.

Its actually a very nice place to stay. I end up there on business meetings once a year or so. I also get funny feelings when Im there I actually rack it up to reading the storys about hauntings.

[Spider]

Dude noneurbixwax does not find you very funny ;D
I know noneurbixwax very well , his real name is paco , he is here illegaly , but he is my swamper , he wanted may 1 st off , but I couldnt let him do it , my shoes never would have got tied ....... ;D

[Spider]

Don't worry he has aids to help him with that.
turd blossom just took on a brand new meaning

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Its actually a very nice place to stay. I end up there on business meetings once a year or so. I also get funny feelings when Im there I actually rack it up to reading the storys about hauntings. Actually, I never really stayed at the Hotel Colorado but I did hear it was haunted. Here's a little more history on Teddy.

http://www.postindependent.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GP&Date=20060425&Category=COMMUNITY&ArtNo=104250010&Ref=AR&MaxW=550&title=1
Glenwood Springs photographer Charles Krueger photographs President Theodore Roosevelt and his hunting party as they make their way to their Divide Creek hunting camp in April 1905. Krueger’s respected abilities as a photographer earned him the privilege to enter the camp to photograph the president’s visit.
Photo Courtesy Frontier Historical Society

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Theodore Roosevelt, whose nickname was "Teddy", enjoyed big game-hunting. According to legend, the teddy bear, received its birth at Hotel Colorado in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

To cheer Theodore Roosevelt after an unsuccessful day of hunting, Hotel Colorado maids presented him with a stuffed bear pieced together with scraps of fine material. Later, when he did bag a bear, his daughter Alyson admired it saying, "I will call it Teddy." The term caught on.

According to another legend, the name is said to come from an incident on a bear-hunting trip in Mississippi in 1902, when Roosevelt's attendants found and caught an old injured bear. Roosevelt refused to kill the lassoed animal, calling it "unsportsmanlike", and "Teddy's Bear" was immediately publicized by political cartoonists, taking journalistic licence and changing it to a young cute bear. The first such cartoon appeared the following day, November 16: Clifford Berryman, an editorial cartoonist for the Washington Post, immortalized the incident as part of a front-page cartoon montage. Berryman pictured Roosevelt with his gun beside him with the butt resting on the ground and his back to the bear, gesturing his refusal to take the trophy shot. Written across the lower part of the cartoon were the words "Drawing the Line in Mississippi," which coupled the hunting incident to a political dispute (see picture to the left).


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Teddybear_cartoon.jpg
Original "Teddy Bear" Cartoon
http://tinyurl.com/ftn9e

[Spider]

Sure he could, it is right where Rumsfeld(SP?) plants his face every day.;D
not only couldnt rummy not find WMD , he is looking for love in all the wrong places also .......oh man that was a bad joke .........

[Atlas]

I give Washington and Lincoln credit mind ya. I just think Roosevelt is the greatest modern President we have ever had. He did so much that still affects our daily lives. Also for some reason at each college I had to go to I had to retake oral communications. And I always use my TR speech that I crafted in 11th grade and still brings me "A"s so by and far another reason. Yeah. I have most of his books about him. An interesting read is "When trumpets calls" the part after his life in the White House. He wasn't really happy being a civilian again. He loved the limelight. He even volutneered to lead a force in WW I but Wilson declined his offer.

huh?? He was President in the early 1900's how is that modern?

[W*GS]

Considering how Bush's policy of "correcting" the Middle East by installing democracy there is a direct descendent of Teddy Roosevelt's "corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine, it's interesting how the folks who admire TR in part for his foreign policy deride Bush for his 21st-century version of a very similar idea.

Those opposed to America having an imperialist foreign policy shouldn't much favor TR, since he basically created that idea.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=§Pide®]Man we could use guys like that today , Bad ássed , hard nosed , and smart , No wavier in thier resolve to bring America to the forefront in everything ..... I guess those times called for guys like that , ever since Nixion , our congress and whitehouse has been a joke

Probably goes back a little further than Nixon (remember Truman was a KKK member with ties to organized crime), but the basic problem is that our representatives main job is to get re elected, not do what is best for their consituents. So they spend all of their time begging for money and trading favors to insure re election while we are left un represented.

[cbs1177]

Okay Roosevelt was the first modern Presidency. First he made the executive branch more powerful then the legislative. He is reknowned as the first modern President b/c of his use of the bully pulpit. He ushered in a new way in which the President governs. He made the President the center figure instead of Congress. Which between Lincoln until Roosevelt the balance of power had switch from President to Congress. In saying Modern I dont' mean I PODS or personal computers or Blu Ray Discs. But in a transfer of power between Congress to the Presidency. TR made the presidency the most powerful branch. So much that the Great White Fleet which congress refused to pay for. TR said I have the funds to sent it to Japan afterwards it is up to you to get it back. Thus Congress approve of the commitee bill to pay for the world wide navy power we had. Modern we mean air power. Also most scholars agress TR was the first modern Presdiency. FDA is still with us, The air force is still with us. yellowstone is still with us. Anti trust is still with us to a lesser degree (my personal opinion) TR made what every President has tried to use the power of the bully pulpit and harness the will of the American people.

[Atlas]

Okay Roosevelt was the first modern Presidency. First he made the executive branch more powerful then the legislative. He is reknowned as the first modern President b/c of his use of the bully pulpit. He ushered in a new way in which the President governs. He made the President the center figure instead of Congress. Which between Lincoln until Roosevelt the balance of power had switch from President to Congress. In saying Modern I dont' mean I PODS or personal computers or Blu Ray Discs. But in a transfer of power between Congress to the Presidency. TR made the presidency the most powerful branch. So much that the Great White Fleet which congress refused to pay for. TR said I have the funds to sent it to Japan afterwards it is up to you to get it back. Thus Congress approve of the commitee bill to pay for the world wide navy power we had. Modern we mean air power. Also most scholars agress TR was the first modern Presdiency. FDA is still with us, The air force is still with us. yellowstone is still with us. Anti trust is still with us to a lesser degree (my personal opinion) TR made what every President has tried to use the power of the bully pulpit and harness the will of the American people.

He really started the build up of the Navy which really helped because just a decade later we were in WWI

[elsid13]

Okay Roosevelt was the first modern Presidency. First he made the executive branch more powerful then the legislative. He is reknowned as the first modern President b/c of his use of the bully pulpit. He ushered in a new way in which the President governs. He made the President the center figure instead of Congress. Which between Lincoln until Roosevelt the balance of power had switch from President to Congress. In saying Modern I dont' mean I PODS or personal computers or Blu Ray Discs. But in a transfer of power between Congress to the Presidency. TR made the presidency the most powerful branch. So much that the Great White Fleet which congress refused to pay for. TR said I have the funds to sent it to Japan afterwards it is up to you to get it back. Thus Congress approve of the commitee bill to pay for the world wide navy power we had. Modern we mean air power. Also most scholars agress TR was the first modern Presdiency. FDA is still with us, The air force is still with us. yellowstone is still with us. Anti trust is still with us to a lesser degree (my personal opinion) TR made what every President has tried to use the power of the bully pulpit and harness the will of the American people.

And believe he is the first American Nobel prize winner for the Portsmouth Treaty ending the Russo-Japenese War

[elsid13]

Considering how Bush's policy of "correcting" the Middle East by installing democracy there is a direct descendent of Teddy Roosevelt's "corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine, it's interesting how the folks who admire TR in part for his foreign policy deride Bush for his 21st-century version of a very similar idea.

Those opposed to America having an imperialist foreign policy shouldn't much favor TR, since he basically created that idea.


W*GS the big difference is that TR was able to pretty effectively execute his strategy of limited intervention, while the current administration continue to shoot themselves in the collective feet when the try to execute their foreign policy initiatives.

[cbs1177]

He did both of those. I just think he was a visionary for paying 25,000 dollars for the first air plane in the American Air force. We as Americans spend more for our military then the rest of the whole world combined. We are consider air supreme compared to other nations.

[alkemical]

He did both of those. I just think he was a visionary for paying 25,000 dollars for the first air plane in the American Air force. We as Americans spend more for our military then the rest of the whole world combined. We are consider air supreme compared to other nations.


and we pay for israels too. (We give israel about 4 billion a year)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

W*GS the big difference is that TR was able to pretty effectively execute his strategy of limited intervention, while the current administration continue to shoot themselves in the collective feet when the try to execute their foreign policy initiatives.

There was more than one difference, here's one to consider...

---------------------------------------------
BUSH AMNESTY PLAN PRODUCING HUGE INCREASE OF ILLEGALS (http://tinyurl.com/ogncf)


We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

.

[alkemical]

Who'se # 1?

[cbs1177]

Considering how Bush's policy of "correcting" the Middle East by installing democracy there is a direct descendent of Teddy Roosevelt's "corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine, it's interesting how the folks who admire TR in part for his foreign policy deride Bush for his 21st-century version of a very similar idea.

Those opposed to America having an imperialist foreign policy shouldn't much favor TR, since he basically created that idea.


Umm TR never directly invaded a foriegn country we merely gave the Panamians arms and parked a big ole navy ship off the coast of Columbia and intimated them that way and gave the Panamians their freedom. No the Corollary approach was basically we are the superpower in the Western Hemisphere and thus if you have a problem over here then deal with us and we will mediate a peaceful solution to the problem. Dont' just invade a country just because. It was mainly dealing with Dominicain Republic and its creditors.

[Spider]

Considering how Bush's policy of "correcting" the Middle East by installing democracy there is a direct descendent of Teddy Roosevelt's "corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine, it's interesting how the folks who admire TR in part for his foreign policy deride Bush for his 21st-century version of a very similar idea.

Those opposed to America having an imperialist foreign policy shouldn't much favor TR, since he basically created that idea.
man .. thats a reach ........ you know I am lefty , I would vote for TR in heart beat , why cause TR got things done , He didnt need excuses ......... you could count on TR to do whats right For AMERICA ......

[W*GS]

Umm TR never directly invaded a foriegn country we merely gave the Panamians arms and parked a big ole navy ship off the coast of Columbia and intimated them that way and gave the Panamians their freedom.

Is it really the US' place to give the peoples of other lands their freedom? Isn't that exactly the reasoning behind the mess we're in now?

[cbs1177]

No it is too different things. First we didn't invade Columbia under TR. We just parked a big ole ship on the international waters off the coast of Columbia. We did give arms to rebels. But that isn't illegal. Arms are sold on the market every day. Yes we didn't get our way so we used expolited a different avenue to get a canal. Maybe if we had a smarter government we would not have to do all the dirty work we are doing now. We could just park the a carrier off the coast and give the ****tes some arms and watch from abroad. Or realize that Iraq kept Iran in check. But that is all in retrospect now. I personally have never heard of a Hussien collary that what happens in the Middle East stays in the Middle east no foriegn powers need not apply. No it is unique Western Hemispheric The Eastern hemispere has no grasp on those types of statements. I see it a little hyprosicey that when the tsuarmi hit it was the Western powers that provide a lot of aid and medical stuff to a mostly muslim countries. Not the other muslim countries themselves taking care of their own. Maybe that will be our downfall being too kind to others. TR believe in the bully pulpit his successor believe in Dollar Diplomacy so both sides have been battling ever since.

[elsid13]

Umm TR never directly invaded a foriegn country we merely gave the Panamians arms and parked a big ole navy ship off the coast of Columbia and intimated them that way and gave the Panamians their freedom. No the Corollary approach was basically we are the superpower in the Western Hemisphere and thus if you have a problem over here then deal with us and we will mediate a peaceful solution to the problem. Dont' just invade a country just because. It was mainly dealing with Dominicain Republic and its creditors.

Hate to disagree, but TR and his policy lead a number of interventions while not invasion were just as deadly to the natives: bold is TR presidents

http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm (includes more)

1899--1901 -- Philippine Islands. U.S. forces protected American interests following the war with Spain and conquered the islands by defeating the Filipinos in their war for independence.

1900 -- China -- May 24 to September 28. American troops participated in operations to protect foreign lives during the Boxer rising, particularly at Peking. For many years after this experience a permanent legation guard was maintained in Peking, and was strengthened at times as trouble threatened.

1901 -- Colombia (State of Panama) -- November 20 to December 4. U.S. forces protected American property on the Isthmus and kept transit lines open during serious revolutionary disturbances.


1904 -- Tangier, Morocco. "We want either Perdicaris alive or Raisula dead." A squadron demonstrated to force release of a kidnapped American. Marine guard was landed to protect the consul general.

1904 -- Panama -- November 17 to 24. U.S. forces protected American lives and property at Ancon at the time of a threatened insurrection.

1904-05 -- Korea -- January 5, 1904, to November 11, 1905. A Marine guard was sent to protect the American legation in Seoul during the Russo-Japanese War.

1906-09 -- Cuba -- September 1906 to January 23, 1909. U.S. forces sought to restore order, protect foreigners, and establish a stable government after serious revolutionary activity.

1907 -- Honduras -- March 18 to June 8. To protect American interests during a war between Honduras and Nicaragua, troops were stationed in Trujillo, Ceiba, Puerto Cortez, San Pedro Laguna and Choloma.

1910 -- Nicaragua -- May 19 to September 4. U.S. forces protected American interests at Bluefields.

1911 -- Honduras -- January 26. American naval detachments were landed to protect American lives and interests during a civil war in Honduras.

1911 -- China. As the nationalist revolution approached, in October an ensign and 10 men tried to enter Wuchang to rescue missionaries but retired on being warned away and a small landing force guarded American private property and consulate at Hankow. A marine guard was established in November over the cable stations at Shanghai; landing forces were sent for protection in Nanking, Chinkiang, Taku and elsewhere.

1912 -- Honduras. A small force landed to prevent seizure by the government of an American-owned railroad at Puerto Cortez. The forces were withdrawn after the United States disapproved the action.

1912 -- Panama. Troops, on request of both political parties, supervised elections outside the Canal Zone.

1912 -- Cuba -- June 5 to August 5. U.S. forces protected American interests on the Province of Oriente, and in Havana.

1912 -- China -- August 24 to 26, on Kentucky Island, and August 26 to 30 at Camp Nicholson. U.S. forces protect Americans and American interests during revolutionary activity.

1912 -- Turkey -- November 18 to December 3. U.S. forces guarded the American legation at Constantinople during a Balkan War.

1912-25 -- Nicaragua -- August to November 1912. U.S. forces protected American interests during an attempted revolution. A small force, serving as a legation guard and seeking to promote peace and stability, remained until August 5, 1925

[W*GS]

No it is too different things. First we didn't invade Columbia under TR. We just parked a big ole ship on the international waters off the coast of Columbia. We did give arms to rebels. But that isn't illegal. Arms are sold on the market every day. Yes we didn't get our way so we used expolited a different avenue to get a canal.

Rationalize it all you want, but it's not an example of moral foreign policy. Yes, our interests were served, but is that really the best measure? We got what we wanted? In the end, that excuses anything, and puts the US on the same plane as other nations.

[W*GS]

W*GS the big difference is that TR was able to pretty effectively execute his strategy of limited intervention, while the current administration continue to shoot themselves in the collective feet when the try to execute their foreign policy initiatives.

So, if the Bush administration hadn't made the many mistakes it has with its Iraq war, the war itself would have been OK?

Hunh?

[Spider]

Probably goes back a little further than Nixon (remember Truman was a KKK member with ties to organized crime), but the basic problem is that our representatives main job is to get re elected, not do what is best for their consituents. So they spend all of their time begging for money and trading favors to insure re election while we are left un represented.
truman well Bess had strong ties with Neal Forsling here in Casper , Truman would come and vist alot , I have read alot of bess and Harrys letters hand written to Neal Forsling ......that Klan Membership is way out of proportion , back in the day before Harry was president , he was a judge in Jackson county including Kansas City , well the clan had a major strong hold there , and a friend told harry to join the klan for support @ first Harry said no , then after awhile he paid 10 Bucks and met with the leaders of the klan once .......... But Harry was never a so called active member, but joining was Harrys biggest regret , my opinion is he shouldnt have joined ......... as for the rest of your post spot on

[cbs1177]

Roosevelt Collary states as follows:
It is not true that the United States feels any land hunger or entertains any projects as regards the other nations of the Western Hemishpere saves such as are for their welfare. All that this country desires is to see the neighboring coutnries stable, orderly, and prosperous. Any coutnry whose people conduct themselves well can count upon our hearty friendship. If a noation shows that is knows how to act with reasonable effciency and decency in social and political matters, if it keeps order and pays its obligations, it need fear no interferences from the United States. Chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence , which results in a general lossening of the ties of civlized society, may in America, as elsewhere, ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation, and in the Western Hemisphere the adhererence of the United States to the Monroe Doctine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence, to the exercies of the international police power.

[cbs1177]

the monroe doctrine

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/monroe.htm




http://http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1801-1825/jmdoc.htm

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What?? You don't like Texas why I oughta hop into my 78 Ford pickup with the 4 rebel flags stickers, the 2 redneck stickers and the "No Fear" emblum on the back window and go kick your California ASSSSS.

How long of a drive is it to L.A.?? I better stock up with 16 cans of chewing tabacco! How dare you Hollywood liberal pussies!!
Don't mess with TexASS!!
http://www.ohmyhead.com/ofl/stuff/dream_06-11-04/pickup.jpg

LOL

Sorry - I guess you and Beerslug are evidence that there's intelligent life in Texas if you look for it

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Apology from a Bush Voter

by Doug McIntyre, Talk Radio 790 KABC

I was wrong to have voted for George W. Bush. In historic terms, I believe George W. Bush is the worst two-term President in the history of the country. Worse than Grant. I also believe a case can be made that he’s the worst President, period. I believed the President when he said we were going to hunt down Bin Laden and all those responsible for the 9-11 murders. I believed Bush when he said we would go after the terrorists and the nations that harbored them.

So, accept my apology for allowing partisanship to blind me to an obvious truth; our President is incapable of the tasks he is charged with.

Continued: http://www.kabc.com/mcintyre/listingsEntry.asp?ID=432586&PT=McIntyre+in+the+Morning

http://www.bartcop.com/wpe-shirt-best.JPG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush Approval Falls to 31

President Bush saw his approval rating fall to 31 percent in a USA Today/Gallup Poll, the lowest recorded in the survey and a drop of three percentage points in a single week.

Bush, at 34 percent a week ago, tumbled on declining support from conservatives and Republicans.

The poll found only 52 percent of conservatives approved of Bush's performance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060508/pl_nm/bush_poll_dc_1;_ylt=ArLYJzAd5I6xVhmH5wx0clUb.3QA;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2ZGZwam4yBHNlYwNmYw--

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Bush Approval Falls to 31

President Bush saw his approval rating fall to 31 percent in a USA Today/Gallup Poll, the lowest recorded in the survey and a drop of three percentage points in a single week.

Bush, at 34 percent a week ago, tumbled on declining support from conservatives and Republicans.

The poll found only 52 percent of conservatives approved of Bush's performance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060508/pl_nm/bush_poll_dc_1;_ylt=ArLYJzAd5I6xVhmH5wx0clUb.3QA;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2ZGZwam4yBHNlYwNmYw--


http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/05/08/bush-poll-inside-large.jpg
Only four presidents have scored a lower approval rating in a Gallup survey than Bush's current 31% number.

Moderates gave him an approval rating of 28%, liberals of 7%.

"You hear people say he has a hard core that will never desert him, and that has been the case for most of the administration," says Charles Franklin, a political scientist at the University of Wisconsin who studies presidential approval ratings. "But for the last few months, we started to see that hard core seriously erode in support."

[gunns]

I know you guys hate Johnson for Vietnam and his alleged role in JFK's assassination, but he accomplished alot of the types of achievements that you folks value. Why not give him credit for using his legislative skill to get things done? He made huge differences for people.

I don't hate him for the Vietnam war although he was the one that brought it to full force and only recent research has made me believe he was a prime player in Kennedy's assassination. I hate him because I was alive during his tenure and the man was a racist pig. If you are not going to give credit to Kennedy for the Peace Corps you cannot give it to Johnson for Civil Rights. Kennedy started the ball rolling and Johnson could not stop it and would have if he could have. Amazing how people dog on Carter for what he did to the economy and say nothing about Johnson. And I'm surprised at your labeling SoCal, liberals? Shouldn't we "liberals" have loved his spending, since we're stereotyping?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't hate him for the Vietnam war although he was the one that brought it to full force and only recent research has made me believe he was a prime player in Kennedy's assassination. I hate him because I was alive during his tenure and the man was a racist pig. If you are not going to give credit to Kennedy for the Peace Corps you cannot give it to Johnson for Civil Rights. Kennedy started the ball rolling and Johnson could not stop it and would have if he could have. Amazing how people dog on Carter for what he did to the economy and say nothing about Johnson. And I'm surprised at your labeling SoCal, liberals? Shouldn't we "liberals" have loved his spending, since we're stereotyping?

:thumbsup: ^5

Gunns with the reality check.

Speaking of Carter, it's amazing how so many right-wing half-wits seem totally oblivious to the fact that Carter predicted our current energy crisis (right down to resource wars in the middle east) 30 years ago and tried to do something about it. Red Ink Reagan subsequently sh_t-canned Carter's energy policies and chose to pander to the oil companies instead (paving the way for the situation in which we find ourselves in today.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Moderates gave him an approval rating of 28%, liberals of 7%.

Keep this stat in mind when some bullsh_t artist like W*GS claims that only denizens of the "far left" disapprove of the thief-in-chief.

[SactownOrangeSunday]

I'm definitely not your son and during the next two years, the more probable scenario is, people will be cheering the impeachment of this war mongering, lying simpleton.

For impeachment proceedings to occur there has to be proof of wrong doing, which there isnt. The last president that had a chance to be impeached would have been Clinton for lying under oath.

My best president of all time is either Andrew Jackson...except for the trail of tears and Indian removal stuff, or most likely Teddy Roosevelt.

[SactownOrangeSunday]

Vietnam doesn't take him down a peg or two? Medicare/Medicaid, which will wreck us?



Hello? "Watergate" mean anything? He also mucked up Vietnam.



Perhaps. We'll see.

Um what about Bay of Pigs ???

[SactownOrangeSunday]

Are you serious? He lied to attack a country and start a war with that country which was absolutely no threat to us (killing and maiming thousands of Americans, not to mention the economical costs which will be over a trillion in VA costs alone), is spending the country into bankruptcy, is spying on Americans in their homes, wants arab countries to control our military installations and ports, wants to grant amnesty to 20 million plus criminals and launched the great Medicare Fraud on us.

His place in history was sealed before the second election but his party line supporters chose to close their eyes and ears and saddle us with at least 4 more years of THE worst president in history.

1) He has never been proven that he had intelligence reports other than the ones he acted on, you have reports that this occurred. There has been no documentation that has conclusively proved it.

2) You cannot say that Iraq was not a threat because you dont know. They may not have had nukes...they might have and moved them pre invasion. That does not mean they are not a threat in some manner, especially considering their ties with other foreign nations like Syria and Libya.

3) That arab company has current control of seven major US ports and have had so for the last ten years. Do you recognize Seattle, San Diego, and Miami, those are just three. Besides nice racist comment that all Arabs are automatically untrustworthy and automatically terrorists.

4) Phone taps and video survaillance at home are not the same thing. You dont seem to have a problem with the government checking emails and instant messages, which they can do legally, so why would a phone tap be any different, its a form of communication, which the government controls and regulates.

5) One of the biggest contributors to the national deficiet is Social Security.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He has never been proven that he had intelligence reports other than the ones he acted on, you have reports that this occurred. There has been no documentation that has conclusively proved it.


Bullsh_t. :bs:

Bush knew prewar intelligence was faulty

PREWAR INTELLIGENCE

Insulating Bush

By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, March 30, 2006

Karl Rove, President Bush's chief political adviser, cautioned other White House aides in the summer of 2003 that Bush's 2004 re-election prospects would be severely damaged if it was publicly disclosed that he had been personally warned that a key rationale for going to war had been challenged within the administration. Rove expressed his concerns shortly after an informal review of classified government records by then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley determined that Bush had been specifically advised that claims he later made in his 2003 State of the Union address -- that Iraq was procuring high-strength aluminum tubes to build a nuclear weapon -- might not be true, according to government records and interviews.

As the 2004 election loomed, the White House was determined to keep the wraps on a potentially damaging memo about Iraq.

Hadley was particularly concerned that the public might learn of a classified one-page summary of a National Intelligence Estimate, specifically written for Bush in October 2002. The summary said that although "most agencies judge" that the aluminum tubes were "related to a uranium enrichment effort," the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Energy Department's intelligence branch "believe that the tubes more likely are intended for conventional weapons."

Three months after receiving that assessment, the president stated without qualification in his January 28, 2003, State of the Union address: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."

The previously undisclosed review by Hadley was part of a damage-control effort launched after former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV alleged that Bush's claims regarding the uranium were not true. The CIA had sent Wilson to the African nation of Niger in 2002 to investigate the purported procurement efforts by Iraq; he reported that they were most likely a hoax.

The White House was largely successful in defusing the Niger controversy because there was no evidence that Bush was aware that his claims about the uranium were based on faulty intelligence. Then-CIA Director George Tenet swiftly and publicly took the blame for the entire episode, saying that he and the CIA were at fault for not warning Bush and his aides that the information might be untrue.

But Hadley and other administration officials realized that it would be much more difficult to shield Bush from criticism for his statements regarding the aluminum tubes, for several reasons.

For one, Hadley's review concluded that Bush had been directly and repeatedly apprised of the deep rift within the intelligence community over whether Iraq wanted the high-strength aluminum tubes for a nuclear weapons program or for conventional weapons.

For another, the president and others in the administration had cited the aluminum tubes as the most compelling evidence that Saddam was determined to build a nuclear weapon -- even more than the allegations that he was attempting to purchase uranium.

And finally, full disclosure of the internal dissent over the importance of the tubes would have almost certainly raised broader questions about the administration's conduct in the months leading up to war.

"Presidential knowledge was the ball game," says a former senior government official outside the White House who was personally familiar with the damage-control effort. "The mission was to insulate the president. It was about making it appear that he wasn't in the know. You could do that on Niger. You couldn't do that with the tubes." A Republican political appointee involved in the process, who thought the Bush administration had a constitutional obligation to be more open with Congress, said: "This was about getting past the election."

The President's Summary

Most troublesome to those leading the damage-control effort was documentary evidence -- albeit in highly classified government records that they might be able to keep secret -- that the president had been advised that many in the intelligence community believed that the tubes were meant for conventional weapons.

The one-page documents known as the "President's Summary" are distilled from the much lengthier National Intelligence Estimates, which combine the analysis of as many as six intelligence agencies regarding major national security issues. Bush's knowledge of the State and Energy departments' dissent over the tubes was disclosed in a March 4, 2006, National Journal story -- more than three years after the intelligence assessment was provided to the president, and some 16 months after the 2004 presidential election.

The President's Summary was only one of several high-level warnings given to Bush and other senior administration officials that serious doubts existed about the intended use of the tubes, according to government records and interviews with former and current officials.

In mid-September 2002, two weeks before Bush received the October 2002 President's Summary, Tenet informed him that both State and Energy had doubts about the aluminum tubes and that even some within the CIA weren't certain that the tubes were meant for nuclear weapons, according to government records and interviews with two former senior officials.

Official records and interviews with current and former officials also reveal that the president was told that even then-Secretary of State Colin Powell had doubts that the tubes might be used for nuclear weapons.

When U.S. inspectors entered Iraq after the fall of Saddam's regime, they determined that Iraq's nuclear program had been dormant for more than a decade and that the aluminum tubes had been used only for conventional weapons.

In the end, the White House's damage control was largely successful, because the public did not learn until after the 2004 elections the full extent of the president's knowledge that the assessment linking the aluminum tubes to a nuclear weapons program might not be true. The most crucial information was kept under wraps until long after Bush's re-election.

Choreography

The new disclosures regarding the tubes may also shed light on why officials so vigorously attempted to discredit Wilson's allegations regarding Niger, including by leaking information to the media that his wife, Valerie Plame, worked for the CIA. Administration officials hoped that the suggestion that Plame had played a role in the agency's choice of Wilson for the Niger trip might cast doubt on his allegations.

I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, then chief of staff and national security adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney, was indicted on October 28 on five counts of making false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice in attempting to conceal his role in outing Plame as an undercover CIA operative. Signaling a possible defense strategy, Libby's attorneys filed papers in federal court on March 17 asserting that he had not intentionally deceived FBI agents and a federal grand jury while answering questions about Plame because her role was only "peripheral" to potentially more serious questions regarding the Bush administration's use of intelligence in the prewar debate. "The media conflagration ignited by the failure to find [weapons of mass destruction] in Iraq and in part by Mr. Wilson's criticism of the administration, led officials within the White House, the State Department, and the CIA to blame each other, publicly and in private, for faulty prewar intelligence about Iraq's WMD capabilities," Libby's attorneys said in court papers.

Plame's identity was disclosed during "a period of increasing bureaucratic infighting, when certain officials at the CIA, the White House, and the State Department each sought to avoid or assign blame for intelligence failures relating to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capability," the attorneys said. "The White House and the CIA were widely regarded to be at war."

Only two months before Wilson went public with his allegations, the Iraq war was being viewed as one of the greatest achievements of Bush's presidency. Rove, whom Bush would later call the "architect" of his re-election campaign, was determined to exploit the war for the president's electoral success. On May 1, 2003, Bush made a dramatic landing on the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln to announce to the nation the cessation of major combat operations in Iraq. Dressed in a military flight suit, the president emerged from a four-seat Navy S-3B Viking with the words "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" painted just below the corkpit window.

The New York Times later reported that White House aides "had choreographed every aspect of the event, even down to the members of the Lincoln crew arrayed in coordinated shirt colors over Mr. Bush's right shoulder and the 'Mission Accomplished' banner placed to perfectly capture the president and the celebratory two words in a single shot."

On May 6, in a column in The New York Times, Nicholas Kristof quoted an unnamed former ambassador as saying that allegations that Saddam had attempted to procure uranium from Africa were "unequivocally wrong" and that "documents had been forged." But the column drew little notice.

A month later, on June 5, the president made a triumphant visit to Camp As Sayliyah, the regional headquarters of Central Command just outside Qatar's capital, where he spoke to 1,000 troops who were in camouflage fatigues. Afterward, Rove took out a camera and began snapping pictures of service personnel with various presidential advisers. "Step right up! Get your photo with Ari Fleischer -- get 'em while they're hot. Get your Condi Rice," Rove said, according to press accounts of the trip. On the trip home, as Air Force One flew at 31,000 feet over Iraqi airspace, escorted by pairs of F-18 fighters off each wing, the plane's pilots dipped the wings as a sign, an administration spokesperson explained, "that Iraq is now free."

There were few hints of what lay ahead: that sectarian violence would engulf Iraq to the point where some fear civil war and that more than 2,440 American troops and contractors would lose their lives in Iraq and an additional 17,260 servicemen and -women would be wounded.

Blame The CIA

The pre-election damage-control effort in response to Wilson's allegations and the broader issue of whether the Bush administration might have misrepresented intelligence information to make the case for war had three major components, according to government records and interviews with current and former officials: blame the CIA for the use of the Niger information in the president's State of the Union address; discredit and undermine Wilson; and make sure that the public did not learn that the president had been personally warned that the intelligence assessments he was citing about the aluminum tubes might be wrong.

On July 8, 2003, two days after Wilson challenged the Niger-uranium claim in an op-ed article in The New York Times, Libby met with Judith Miller, then a Times reporter, for breakfast at the St. Regis hotel in Washington. Libby told Miller that Wilson's wife, Plame, worked for the CIA, and he suggested that Wilson could not be trusted because his wife may have played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission. Also during that meeting, according to accounts given by both Miller and Libby, Libby provided the reporter with details of a then-classified National Intelligence Estimate. The NIE contained detailed information that Iraq had been attempting to procure uranium from Niger and perhaps two other African nations. Libby and other administration officials believed that the NIE showed that Bush's statements reflected the consensus view of the intelligence community at the time.

According to Miller's account of that meeting in The Times, Libby told her that "the assessments of the classified estimate" that Iraq had attempted to get uranium from Africa and was attempting to develop a nuclear weapons program "were even stronger" than a declassified White Paper on Iraq that the administration had made public to make the case for war.

The special prosecutor in the CIA leak case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, has said that he considers the selective disclosure of elements of the NIE to be "inextricably intertwined" with the outing of Plame. Papers filed in federal court by Libby's attorneys on March 17 stated that Libby "believed his actions were authorized" and that he had "testified before the grand jury that this disclosure was authorized," a reference to the NIE details he gave to Miller.

In the same filings, Libby's attorneys said that Hadley played a key role in attempting to have the NIE declassified and made available to reporters: "Mr. Hadley was active in discussions about the need to declassify and disseminate the NIE and [also] had numerous conversations during [this] critical early-July period with Mr. Tenet about the 16 words [the Niger claim in the State of the Union address] and Mr. Tenet's public statements about that issue."

Three days later, on July 11, while on a visit to Africa, Bush and his top aides intensified their efforts to counter the damage done by Wilson's Niger allegations.

Aboard Air Force One, en route to Entebbe, Uganda, then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice gave a background briefing for reporters. A reporter pointed out that when Secretary Powell had addressed the United Nations on February 5, 2003, he -- unlike others in the Bush administration -- had noted that some in the U.S. government did not believe that Iraq's procurement of high-strength aluminum tubes was for nuclear weapons.

Responding, Rice said: "I'm saying that when we put [Powell's speech] together ... the secretary decided that he would caveat the aluminum tubes, which he did.... The secretary also has an intelligence arm that happened to hold that view." Rice added, "Now, if there were any doubts about the underlying intelligence to that NIE, those doubts were not communicated to the president, to the vice president, or me."

In fact, contrary to Rice's statement, the president was indeed informed of such doubts when he received the October 2002 President's Summary of the NIE. Both Cheney and Rice also got copies of the summary, as well as a number of other intelligence reports about the State and Energy departments' doubts that the tubes were meant for a nuclear weapons program.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush lied about mobile labs

On May 29, 2003, 50 days after the fall of Baghdad, President Bush proclaimed a fresh victory for his administration in Iraq: Two small trailers captured by U.S. troops had turned out to be long-sought mobile "biological laboratories." He declared, "We have found the weapons of mass destruction."

The claim, repeated by top administration officials for months afterward, was hailed at the time as a vindication of the decision to go to war. But even as Bush spoke, U.S. intelligence officials possessed powerful evidence that it was not true.

A secret fact-finding mission to Iraq -- not made public until now -- had already concluded that the trailers had nothing to do with biological weapons. Leaders of the Pentagon-sponsored mission transmitted their unanimous findings to Washington in a field report on May 27, 2003, two days before the president's statement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12275328/

[Spider]

LOL LABF , as if those will work on someone like Sactown , he is so far up Bush's ass , that bush needs to fart just so Sactown can have some fresh air ........

[Smiling Assassin27]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.

George Washington.

[W*GS]

Keep this stat in mind when some bullsh_t artist like W*GS claims that only denizens of the "far left" disapprove of the thief-in-chief.

Show me where I made such a claim.

What I do claim is that very few Americans agree with your entire ideology (confused, inconsistent, bitter, petulant and crude as it is).

I don't approve of Bush either - but that doesn't make me one of your comrades. Far from it. Duh.

[Hotrod]

http://angela.byersworks.com/column/heston.jpg

[spdirty]

http://angela.byersworks.com/column/heston.jpg

LOL

[Atlas]

WOW this post is wrong on so many accounts.1) He has never been proven that he had intelligence reports other than the ones he acted on, you have reports that this occurred. There has been no documentation that has conclusively proved it.funny how 2 months before 911 both Rice and Powell were doing interviews where they both said Iraq was not a threat and was contained

2) You cannot say that Iraq was not a threat because you dont know. They may not have had nukes...they might have and moved them pre invasion. That does not mean they are not a threat in some manner, especially considering their ties with other foreign nations like Syria and Libya. see above answer. What happened in the two months where Iraq was not a threat and all of a sudden they were such a huge threat that the U.S. had to invade at all costs

3) That arab company has current control of seven major US ports and have had so for the last ten years. Do you recognize Seattle, San Diego, and Miami, those are just three. Besides nice racist comment that all Arabs are automatically untrustworthy and automatically terrorists. not all arabs are bad or evil but yet it only takes a couple with good connections to smuggle a nuke into this country.

4) Phone taps and video survaillance at home are not the same thing. You dont seem to have a problem with the government checking emails and instant messages, which they can do legally, so why would a phone tap be any different, its a form of communication, which the government controls and regulates. Bush has tapped all sorts of Americans secretly and he has NEVER given any paper work on who he has wire tapped, or for what reason he wire tapped these people. Hell, he could be wire tapping anyone for any political or personal reason. He wouldn't even release any information to a small senate committee that was looking into this. To me this just reeks of sh!t.

5) One of the biggest contributors to the national deficiet is Social Security. no sh!t and social security is the most important program the federal government has! And Bush's war and his policies and his deficit are putting it in jeopardy. Thanks George!!

http://www.infowars.com/images2/ps/Bush_-_HitlerFake.jpg

[elsid13]

So, if the Bush administration hadn't made the many mistakes it has with its Iraq war, the war itself would have been OK?

Hunh?

W*GS

The underlining theme of the war were the removal of dictator, to transforms a ME country into a stable democratic country to influence the rest of the region, and a friendly counter to Iran are not bad ideas. WMD was just the excuse to force change. While many strategies were could have been employed, the administration choice the one they felt caused change in rapid order. What I have problem with is the fact that the didn't listen to thier experts, didn't follow doctrine(because we know better) that had worked in the past and didn't effective communicate why this needed to be done. It the failure to effectively manage and execute policy that has been the stumbling block of this White House. If the conflict and the post war operation had been effectively done many Americans would believe that the war was success and there wouldn't be a debate about this.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

1) He has never been proven that he had intelligence reports other than the ones he acted on, you have reports that this occurred. There has been no documentation that has conclusively proved it.
Haven't been reading the newspapers or watching the news for the last two years, have you?


2) You cannot say that Iraq was not a threat because you dont know. They may not have had nukes...they might have and moved them pre invasion. That does not mean they are not a threat in some manner, especially considering their ties with other foreign nations like Syria and Libya. I can, I did and the whole world knows it but you. And FYI the United States government admitted it two years ago.


3) That arab company has current control of seven major US ports and have had so for the last ten years. Do you recognize Seattle, San Diego, and Miami, those are just three. Besides nice racist comment that all Arabs are automatically untrustworthy and automatically terrorists.
Do you just throw sh*t in the air and hopes it hits something?
Only an ignorant, uneducated hillbilly would think that comment was "racist"


4) Phone taps and video survaillance at home are not the same thing. You dont seem to have a problem with the government checking emails and instant messages, which they can do legally, so why would a phone tap be any different, its a form of communication, which the government controls and regulates.
Did you just land in this country or something? You really have no idea what our laws are!!!!!


5) One of the biggest contributors to the national deficiet is Social Security.
The federal budget deficit is the result of an out of control president setting all-time spending records and cutting taxes after starting a war.

[Hotrod]

Bump

[elsid13]

Bump

Bored???

[Crushaholic]

Since Hotrod bumped this, I'd like to add that allegations and proof are two different things. The Democrats are either not willing to investigate the Bush allegations to see if they are true or they secretly know that Bush's "wrongdoings" are exaggerated and there's not much to investigate...

[Hotrod]

Since Hotrod bumped this, I'd like to add that allegations and proof are two different things. The Democrats are either not willing to investigate the Bush allegations to see if they are true or they secretly know that Bush's "wrongdoings" are exaggerated and there's not much to investigate...

Or there things that would come out they dont want anyone to know about.

[defenseman]

I like the first myself , George Washington. In his closing speech to the nation he broached on two fears he had about the republic in the future, and in fact, those two fears are occurring today. Good call GW...dman

[bendog]

I'm going with Alexander Hamilton

[W*GS]

Personally? Ben Franklin.

[defenseman]

I like the first myself , George Washington. In his closing speech to the nation he broached on two fears he had about the republic in the future, and in fact, those two fears are occurring today. Good call GW...dman

Two fears?

- political parties turning into "factions" basically unable to get the job done
- loss of morals dragging the country down

He called that one now didn't he...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Or there things that would come out they dont want anyone to know about.Or they know that the crooks in charge could be hung out to dry but would consume the entire rest of the term to do so getting nothing done in the process.

[gunns]

I like the first myself , George Washington. In his closing speech to the nation he broached on two fears he had about the republic in the future, and in fact, those two fears are occurring today. Good call GW...dman

I liked Franklin Roosevelts. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". How true that has turned out to be.

[Northman]

Who would you say is the greatest leader this country has ever seen???

Some would say Clinton I guess but those people are just sexual perverts IMO

I personally would say its Bush since hes stood up and taken charge of a very difficult time in world history and made everyone on the planet safer. Hes well on his way to uniting the world.



WOW

[yavoon]

jefferson. not that quotes win arguments, but jefferson has some pretty serious quote ammunition.

[BroncoBuff]

Lincoln.

Period.

A boring answer, maybe, but true beyond all debate. There wouldn't be a United States as we know it without him.

[theAPAOps5]

George Washington as he foresaw the real thing that would bring this country down, that being the two party system. Man he was so right.

[yavoon]

Lincoln.

Period.

A boring answer, maybe, but true beyond all debate. There wouldn't be a United States as we know it without him.

u do realize that the north massively outmanned and out produced the south right? unless we got jimmy carter as president during that time and the US was just allowed to fall apart I'm pretty sure the north woulda won.

PS. this is not meant to impugn lincoln in any serious manner, he was awesome.

[yavoon]

another good case for jefferson is of the top 4 he is the only one who didnt preside over a great war.

the other presidents generally considered for #1 could be known as revolution, civil and WWII.

[Garcia Bronco]

Andrew Jackson

[BKK]

Wahington, Lincoln, Nixon, Reagan, GW.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wahington, Lincoln, Nixon, Reagan, GW. Ha! This was a late show joke, right?

[SoCalBronco]

Wahington, Lincoln, Nixon, Reagan, GW.

Agreed as to the first three (Nixon is extremely underrated and unbelievably underappreciated by a large number of Americans, im glad you included him, props to you), I would not include Reagan or GWB, not even close, I don't see the reasoning for that at all, their presidencies have largely been a waste. In their place, i'd add FDR and Truman to complete the 5. I think LBJ (like Nixon) is underappreciated. His legislative mastery (obviously due to his experience as the Senate Majority Leader) was so vital to all of the great Civil Rights legislation in the 60s that he was able to get through, which Kennedy could not. I don't know where I would put Johnson, but he is definitely underrated, people tend to focus on his flaws a little too much and he isn't given proper credit for some of the historic achievements that he accomplished.

[Bronco Bob]

Theodore Roosevelt.

[BroncoBuff]

TR is my favorite. He shouldda run for a second full term.

[gunns]

Agreed as to the first three (Nixon is extremely underrated and unbelievably underappreciated by a large number of Americans, im glad you included him, props to you), I would not include Reagan or GWB, not even close, I don't see the reasoning for that at all, their presidencies have largely been a waste. In their place, i'd add FDR and Truman to complete the 5. I think LBJ (like Nixon) is underappreciated. His legislative mastery (obviously due to his experience as the Senate Majority Leader) was so vital to all of the great Civil Rights legislation in the 60s that he was able to get through, which Kennedy could not. I don't know where I would put Johnson, but he is definitely underrated, people tend to focus on his flaws a little too much and he isn't given proper credit for some of the historic achievements that he accomplished.

I'm impressed SoCal, I wouldn't expected some of this from you. As much as I disliked the guy I agree on Nixon. But major props to not including Reagan. Can't agree on LBJ though. The man was a crude, shoot from the hip and often wrong guy and it wasn't that Kennedy couldn't get the Civil Rights Act through, he didn't have time to. LBJ, in his own right, was a racist, he did it gain points with the still mourning public. Many of Nixon's problems in office were inherited from LBJ.

[Spider]

Best ever ?
T.R
FDR
Truman
Clinton
Washington
Abe Lincoln
pretty much in that order ....... LBJ got some bills signed , pushed some legislation , but he lied through his teeth , he screwed us ......... JFK Made some damn good speeches, and he did back down Russia , but his biggest accomplishment was Nailing Marlyn Monroe more then once ........

[DBruleU]

Best ever ?
T.R
FDR
Truman
Clinton
Washington
Abe Lincoln
pretty much in that order ....... LBJ got some bills signed , pushed some legislation , but he lied through his teeth , he screwed us ......... JFK Made some damn good speeches, and he did back down Russia , but his biggest accomplishment was Nailing Marlyn Monroe more then once ........

You have Clinton above both Washington, and Lincoln?

I hope you have been drinking tonight.

[Spider]

You have Clinton above both Washington, and Lincoln?

I hope you have been drinking tonight.

LOL what the **** do you know ? seriously ....... Washington and Lincoln didnt have to govern the # of people Clinton did , Nor did they have asswipes in Congress as much as clinton did .......take your romantic about the past Ideas somewhere else........

[snowspot66]

Clinton was able to compromise. In fact I would say the reason he did so well was the fact that he had to deal with a Republican majority in congress. I don't believe any party should hold both Congress and the Whitehouse. Stupid **** gets rubberstamped and the end result is rarely ever good. But to claim those in the past never had "asswipes" in congress is rediculous. They just didn't get the same press and have faded into obscurity with the passage of time.

Time goes on and people stay the same. The only difference is now there are more of them and we have more access to them through media.

[DBruleU]

LOL what the **** do you know ? seriously ....... Washington and Lincoln didnt have to govern the # of people Clinton did , Nor did they have asswipes in Congress as much as clinton did .......take your romantic about the past Ideas somewhere else........

Possibly the two greatest leaders of our country aren't better than Clinton because they didn't have the amount of people to deal with that Clinton did? Clinton isn't even half the man these men were.

In fact, Clinton never had to deal with a country at war. Bombing an aspirin factory doesn't count. Both Lincoln and Washington held our country together during the hardest times this country has ever seen. Yeah, Clinton definitely holds a candle to them. ::)

Your reasoning is sometimes asinine.

[Bronco Bob]

Possibly the two greatest leaders of our country aren't better than Clinton because they didn't have the amount of people to deal with that Clinton did? Clinton isn't even half the man these men were.

In fact, Clinton never had to deal with a country at war. Bombing an aspirin factory doesn't count. Both Lincoln and Washington held our country together during the hardest times this country has ever seen. Yeah, Clinton definitely holds a candle to them. ::)

Your reasoning is sometimes asinine.

The entire nation of Serbia is hardly an aspirin factory. And Clinton won
the Kosovo war, without a single US combat death.

Your Clinton comment is asinine.

[DBruleU]

The entire nation of Serbia is hardly an aspirin factory. And Clinton won
the Kosovo war, without a single US combat death.

Your Clinton comment is asinine.

My point is that you can't compare that to the war on terrorism, or the Civil War, or Revolutionary War.

Not saying Bush is best Pres. ever, but no other president has ever had to deal with terrorism like Bush has...I don't think his legacy can be judged just yet.

For Lincoln and Washington...I think it goes without saying that their leadership during their presidencies, may be the only reason we are around as a nation.

Clinton didn't have to do anything because he was lucky enough to inherit Reagans policies. The only tough thing he ever had to deal with was his Lewinsky ordeal.

[alkemical]

My point is that you can't compare that to the war on terrorism, or the Civil War, or Revolutionary War.

Not saying Bush is best Pres. ever, but no other president has ever had to deal with terrorism like Bush has...I don't think his legacy can be judged just yet.

For Lincoln and Washington...I think it goes without saying that their leadership during their presidencies, may be the only reason we are around as a nation.

Clinton didn't have to do anything because he was lucky enough to inherit Reagans policies. The only tough thing he ever had to deal with was his Lewinsky ordeal.

OKC, colombine, Rodney king riots (i believe) - WTC bombings - and some other drama.

[Spider]

Possibly the two greatest leaders of our country aren't better than Clinton because they didn't have the amount of people to deal with that Clinton did? Clinton isn't even half the man these men were.

In fact, Clinton never had to deal with a country at war. Bombing an aspirin factory doesn't count. Both Lincoln and Washington held our country together during the hardest times this country has ever seen. Yeah, Clinton definitely holds a candle to them. ::)

Your reasoning is sometimes asinine.

asinine ? you goofy bastard , plenty went down on Clintons watch , just cause Clinton handled things right , and didnt allow things to become bigger issues , is no reason to ignore the works he did .......
you are young DBRuleU , and you really dont understand or have a grasp ...See the Idea is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ...The millennium plot , increased security stopped that , see you stop a 9-11 attack before it happens , Granted some snot nosed kid comes along ,ànd says ,Clinton never had to deal`with a terrorist attack , but it is a small price to pay , let the kid be stupid ...........oh and a another thing , Clinton wanted to beef up air port security , Reps said no too much of an inconvenience..........asinine .. perhaps you should educate yourself better

[DBruleU]

asinine ? you goofy bastard , plenty went down on Clintons watch , just cause Clinton handled things right , and didnt allow things to become bigger issues , is no reason to ignore the works he did .......
you are young DBRuleU , and you really dont understand or have a grasp ...See the Idea is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ...The millennium plot , increased security stopped that , see you stop a 9-11 attack before it happens , Granted some snot nosed kid comes along ,ànd says ,Clinton never had to deal`with a terrorist attack , but it is a small price to pay , let the kid be stupid ...........oh and a another thing , Clinton wanted to beef up air port security , Reps said no too much of an inconvenience..........asinine .. perhaps you should educate yourself better

If doing things right is code for doing nothing at all, then you're right. 9 11 may have happened less than a year into Bush's watch, but the years leading up to it (Clintons years) could have prevented it.

Granted I'm only 23, and really didn't care for politics until the end of Clintons admin., but you don't have to be old to understand the mistakes omissions Clinton made. This board is 90 percent liberal, and its not surprising to see you are able to bully people around with personal attacks, and crudeness in every post without consequence.

[Spider]

If doing things right is code for doing nothing at all, then you're right. 9 11 may have happened less than a year into Bush's watch, but the years leading up to it (Clintons years) could have prevented it.

Granted I'm only 23, and really didn't care for politics until the end of Clintons admin., but you don't have to be old to understand the mistakes omissions Clinton made. This board is 90 percent liberal, and its not surprising to see you are able to bully people around with personal attacks, and crudeness in every post without consequence.

Bully, you called me out , I just tell it how it is , Clinton did everything he could , a republican congress trying to impeach him , Wag the dog etc ......... But it is amazing that Clinton wanted tighter air port security eludes you , if Clinton had got that Tighter security passed 9-11 doesnt happen , now dont get pissy with me for your own ignorance .......... as I said , Clinton took care of things before they was big issues .......... deal with it

[Spider]

oh and 1 more thing DBruleU , pay attention here , those that did the 1993 Bombing are rotting in Jail , and where is Ossama Bin Laden ? before you spew Bullshít about who has done what and who hasnt , Learn what you are babbling about .......... if Ignorance is bliss , you are 1 blissful mother ****er

[Bronco Bob]

If doing things right is code for doing nothing at all, then you're right. 9 11 may have happened less than a year into Bush's watch, but the years leading up to it (Clintons years) could have prevented it.

No, doing things right is code for hiring competant people in positions of
responsibility, people that know what they are doing and can get the
job done, like Clinton did with FEMA, instead of hiring cronies who's
loyalty is more imporatant than job knowledge, like Bush does.

And if Bush would have acted on the information Clinton provided him
about al-Quada, Bush could have prevented 9/11 too. I wonder if
Gore had been elected how many of you right wingers would be
laughing at his nutty claim that he prevented some Arabs from
flying airplanes into the WTC. Probably rank right up there with
invented the internet jokes. "Did you hear, Al Gore stopped cows
from flying into the Brooklyn Bridge."



Granted I'm only 23, and really didn't care for politics until the end of Clintons admin., but you don't have to be old to understand the mistakes omissions Clinton made. This board is 90 percent liberal, and its not surprising to see you are able to bully people around with personal attacks, and crudeness in every post without consequence.

Especially if all you have to go on to inform you about Clinton is right
wing talk radio. Basically you are trying to tell the people who lived
under Clinton that you know more about Clinton than they do because
Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity told you so.

[Garcia Bronco]

Washington was not a particularly good President, nor was Bill Clinton. FDR might have been the worst President with the idea's set forth in his admin.

[Spider]

Washington was not a particularly good President, nor was Bill Clinton. FDR might have been the worst President with the idea's set forth in his admin.

back that shít up , tell me how if Clinton got better security bill passed 9-11 would have happened .........and FDR bad , ok I call Bullshít , the only ones that thought FDR was Bad was the super rich , you benefit every day from FDR new deal policy ....... everytime you eat , you are enjoying part of FDR's new deal farm program ...Why in the hell do people insist on trying to bullshít about things they have no idea about ?
Hey Garcia , talk to one of your granparents about how bad the great depersion was ......... my Grandma age 94 still has sugar stamps .........