Lelie Threatening Holdout if not Traded

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ashley, we had high hopes for you here and you didnt deliver. I hope that you find a place where you will fit in, because this obviously wasnt the place. Good luck in Philly.

Edit: per ESPN TV 5/1/06

[easymobee]

He'll get his ass to camp.

Either that or what kind of value is he gonna have going into UFA.

TO or Moss can maybe pull off a year sit-out and still get a good deal, but not Ash.

[Bronco LB 59]

This is a sad ending. I remember the day Denver drafted Ashley and he was so excited to be a Bronco.

I hope this can be resolved. I want to see Lelie in a Denver uniform for the next five years if not more. Please stay Ashley, we wan't you to maximize your talent in the Mile High City.

[GreatBronco16]

You just now heard it on ESPN? The ESPn that is running reruns from earlier today? Or is this breaking news on the bottomline or something?

[DarkHorse30]

this is obviously a trick by Shanaco to make Lelie look like a complainer....and a potential #1 WR.......to make it more likely that some team would think they need him.....right? (I can't believe Lelie could POSSIBLY be as stupid as he's sounding right now..."yeah, it's not FAIR that Denver could possibly expect me to PROVE that I'm a #1 WR.....by being a #1 WR")

BTW, it was great to see Jake (aka the outlaw josey wales) address the cutler draft in these classic words "I'd've drafted him too".

[Clockwork Orange]

**** him, let him sit. He's got no trade value as it is and his public sobbing hasn't helped any.

Tell him he plays for the Broncos this season or he doesn't play.

[GreatBronco16]

I just turned it to ESPN News and the bottom line had nothing on it. I think he is FOS.

BTW, where is a link to what Plummer said about the draft? I'd like to see what all he said.

[Kaylore]

I just turned it to ESPN News and the bottom line had nothing on it. I think he is FOS.

BTW, where is a link to what Plummer said about the draft? I'd like to see what all he said.
I agree. There is no link and he quickly quipped "per ESPN". This is bogus.

Here's the link:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609

[epicSocialism4tw]

I just turned it to ESPN News and the bottom line had nothing on it. I think he is FOS.

BTW, where is a link to what Plummer said about the draft? I'd like to see what all he said.


It was on Sportscenter. You'll find out soon enough. Im sorry I cant satiate your hunger for links.

[GreatBronco16]

It was on Sportscenter. You'll find out soon enough. Im sorry I cant satiate your hunger for links.

I think I already did.

[doof]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_3774437

Lelie won't accept drop to No. 3 role
By Bill Williamson and Mike Klis
Denver Post Staff Writers


Ashley Lelie, a former first-round pick who wants out of Denver, has averaged 17.9 yards on 168 catches in four seasons with the Broncos. (Post / Hyoung Chang)


If the Broncos want to mend fences with wide receiver Ashley Lelie, he says no offense, but he's not interested.

"Me coming back is definitely out of the question at this point with me being the No. 3 receiver," Lelie said Monday night from Arizona. "There's nothing to mend. There's no solution. ... Let me go somewhere where I can compete."

At this point, Lelie - who has forgone Denver's entire offseason workout program - knows there are three possibilities for him: be traded, show up for training camp in late July or hold out for the entire season.

"The odds are the worst scenario is the most likely scenario," Lelie said. "I think holding out is the best odds with me being traded next and then me coming back next. But I don't think I'm coming back. ... The situation has gotten worse. It's gotten a lot worse."

Lelie, of course, is talking about his place on Denver's depth chart at wideout. When Lelie asked to be traded, it was because he was wanted the chance to be a No. 1 receiver elsewhere instead of being the No. 2 in Denver. Saturday, he slid to No. 3 when Denver acquired Pro Bowl wideout Javon Walker from Green Bay.

Thus, Lelie, who has one season remaining on his contract, is behind Walker and veteran Rod Smith.

"I'd much rather sit out than be No. 3," Lelie said. "I'm prepared for the money hit I'll take. It's not about monetary issues. I love to play, and I want the chance to play. When the game is on the line with two minutes to go, I want to be on the field, not the bench. We just don't use three receivers much. We're a running team. I don't see this working."

Said Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer: "I don't see any positives coming from ever holding out. Very rarely does it happen where you get your way."

Lelie insisted he is not upset with anyone in particular, that it's simply the situation.

"My reaction to Ashley is he's under contract," Broncos general manager Ted

Sundquist said, adding, "I fully expect Ashley to be back."
Lelie said new assistant head coach Mike Heimerdinger, who will be in charge of the passing game, called him Monday to try to be the "mediator," but Lelie said he hadn't gotten the chance to call the coach back.

"I have no problem playing for Mike Shanahan or do I have any problem with anyone there," Lelie said. "It's not about being mad, it's about the opportunity. I don't want my legacy to be as a No. 3 receiver."

Lelie and Walker are working out together in Arizona. They looked at each other Monday morning when they began training and laughed.

"He's my buddy and he's happy to be in Denver," Lelie said. "He said he's going to buy my house. I told I'd sell it to him for $10 million. Hopefully, I won't need it."

Backing off blitzing?

Up front, the Broncos believe newcomers Kenard Lang and Elvis Dumervil and former scout team defensive end Corey Jackson not only will offset the departure of Trevor Pryce but intensify the pass rush without relying so much on the blitz.

"I do feel like the defensive staff has worked long and hard already in looking at some of the things we did last year, and they may loosen up our linemen and allow them to put a little more pressure on the quarterback versus playing run first," Sundquist said.

Webster on board

The Broncos finally signed free-agent linebacker Nate Webster, formerly of the Cincinnati Bengals.

[Kaylore]

... Ok angry Llama: 1 Me: 0

[Clockwork Orange]

"I'd much rather sit out than be No. 3," Lelie said. "I'm prepared for the money hit I'll take. It's not about monetary issues. I love to play, and I want the chance to play.

:kiddingme

[SoCalBronco]

Once again, Ash this isnt the right tack to take. It isnt going to solve the concerns you have. This is simply the cards that you have been dealt. You've done a good job building up your image as a hard worker and a good guy and you will be losing it all over this. Just accept the role, do the best you can, do not complain in public and then sign a 1 yr. contract with the team (and offensive system) of your choice next summer so that you can prove that your worth the money. That's the only approach.

[epicSocialism4tw]

This is really unfortunate, but what can you do? With all of the drops and the unwillingness to perform across the middle, you cant commit #1 plays and #1 money to a guy that isnt well rounded.

The best thing is to find him a place to play. In the NFC. Definately not in Indy.

[Kaylore]

What a soldier. He can kiss my hind parts. :loser:


:Whaaaa!: <-------- can we change the sig code for the smilie to :Lelie:?

[epicSocialism4tw]

I wonder if New Orleans would be interested? They might be willing to part with an RB...;D

[Ratboy]

Hopefully Javon, Rod, Jake, and other leaders convince him to stay.

[watermock]

Fine, let him sit.

[Ratboy]

Obviously Lelie doesn't care about money since he's willing to sit on the bench.

[watermock]

More than anyting this scares moe about Wlaker.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Hopefully Javon, Rod, Jake, and other leaders convince him to stay.


If he could just hang in there, he could take over when Rod retires. Not only that, but one of the strongest-armed QB's in the league is being groomed to throw him the ball.

I dont understand what he thinks his legacy is going to be. He's a deep threat. That's about it.

[GreatBronco16]

Lelie isn't making any sense.

It isn't about the money, he just wants to play. Well come to camp, beat out Walker and take your spot back. And with Walker, Smith and Lelie, who is saying we won't be doing alot of 3WR sets now? You would think Lelie would be thinking that this would open up the deep pass alot more now. Now the defense have to key in on Rod, Walker and the running game, not to mention Plummer bootleging. Lelie would have alot of one on one coverage by the #3 CBs or perhaps the safteys.

Lelie should see this as a chance for the offense to really open up for the good of the entire team, and a great chance to be back in the AFC Champ game perhaps getting to the SB this time.


Players don't care about that anymore. It's not about winning championships anymore. It's about me some more me.

[BroncoBuff]

We "drafted" a Pro Bowl WR with pick #37, so .... hasta la vista, Ashley.

The odd part is, it appears that neither SF nor Green Bay wanted the guy ...

[Ratboy]

If he could just hang in there, he could take over when Rod retires. Not only that, but one of the strongest-armed QB's in the league is being groomed to throw him the ball.

I dont understand what he thinks his legacy is going to be. He's a deep threat. That's about it.

I disagree. Lelie showed he can go over the middle to the end of the year when we utilized him a lot more, and when Plummer looks his direction. From the second he breaks the huddle, his eyes don't leave Rod Smith.

If we trade him, i say we work something out with the Saints and get ourselves Donte Stallworth.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I disagree. Lelie showed he can go over the middle to the end of the year when we utilized him a lot more, and when Plummer looks his direction. From the second he breaks the huddle, his eyes don't leave Rod Smith.


That's because he can trust Rod to beat the jam and be where he is supposed to be. Lelie still cant get off of the line consistently.

[Bronco LB 59]

If we trade him, i say we work something out with the Saints and get ourselves Donte Stallworth.

It's crazy how the 1st round WR class of 2002 could all be tied in with Denver.

[Ratboy]

It's crazy how the 1st round WR class of 2002 could all be tied in with Denver.

:rofl:

[Clockwork Orange]

That's because he can trust Rod to beat the jam and be where he is supposed to be. Lelie still cant get off of the line consistently.

Yes, and the one game that the Lelie homers cling to is the one against the Fade and their weak ass corners who couldn't jam mock at the line if they had to.

I'm just worried about Javon Walker or one of the rookies having to step up and replace that one touchdown that Lelie caught last year. That's a lot to ask.

[24champ]

So let me get this straight, Lelie is going to CRY his way to the #1 on the depth Chart, gimme a break.

[BroncoBuff]

Hopefully Javon, Rod, Jake, and other leaders convince him to stay.
Why would we want to keep him? Malcontents (especially malcontenets who couldn't find "between the hashmarks" with a roadmap) have no place in Shanny's roster. Besides, if he was a crybaby as the #2 WR, what if Terrell and/or Kircus beat him out for #3? Do we want his whiny self on the roster as the #4 or even #5 wideout? In this age of free agency, where the best WR on the planet just relocated for no compensation, I'll take a 3rd or 4th round pick to rid the roster of the guy.

The future is Javon, Terrell and Kircus ... and Marshall and Devoe and Adams ....

[Hulamau]

While I haope Heimerdicnger can convicen him of reall ytruly givng him the scahne to excle thsi year whatever number they give him, what ASh said here was again reasonable.

Afdter 4 yeras as teh heir apparent hes suddenly th #3 while he did everything they asked him to do last year.

He was our most reliable WR last half of the year and was the only one making circus catches past 25 yards.

HE siad he had problem with Shann ynor the Borncos but the situation ( i.e our dumbed-down offense with Plummer) jsut dioesn't have a real role for the #3 like it did even with Greise here.

That is a tue enoug hfact and for a guy like him going into his CONTRACT year is pretty pis poor of Shanahan to not even talk this out with him but jsut satr dancing with TO and then Walker.

After promising to allow him to be traded Shanny then effectively shut the door by pricing him out of the market knowing he can't afford to lose him this year and yet wanting to put the squeeze on him for daring to want a better situation.

If as has been rumored here at UH that Shanny promised a larger role for Ash before his contract year was up the way Shanny has handled this is doubly underhanded. Shanny is a geat coach but he can be also be a vindictive cus as well.


Anyway, I hope Heimerdinger can smooth things over and get Ash in to camp.
Or they shoud ldo the honoarbale thing and woirk otu a trade for him fair and square. Leli gave us 4 yeras of good serivce backing up JAke all the way and deserves better than to be thrown on the trash pile, just because everyone is enamored with Gimpy Walker who bolted from HIS team and gave Lelie the idea of how to do it.

What did I say earlier that Walker must be rubbing it in down in Arizona each day and sure enough Lelie talks about him joking with him about selling him his house for $10-million (Walkers likely signing bonus).

The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I suspect the love affair with Walker will last until about week 6 when he starts bitching about Rod getting too many balls, assuming he's even able to play by then.

[Ratboy]

While I haope Heimerdicnger can convicen him of reall ytruly givng him the scahne to excle thsi year whatever number they give him, what ASh said here was again reasonable.

Afdter 4 yeras as teh heir apparent hes suddenly th #3 while he did everything they asked him to do last year.

He was our most reliable WR last half of the year and was the only one making circus catches past 25 yards.

HE siad he had problem with Shann ynor the Borncos but the situation ( i.e our dumbed-down offense with Plummer) jsut dioesn't have a real role for the #3 like it did even with Greise here.

That is a tue enoug hfact and for a guy like him going into his CONTRACT year is pretty pis poor of Shanahan to not even talk this out with him but jsut satr dancing with TO and then Walker.

After promising to allow him to be traded Shanny then effectively shut the door by pricing him out of the market knowing he can't afford to lose him this year and yet wanting to put the squeeze on him for daring to want a better situation.

If as has been rumored here at UH that Shanny promised a larger role for Ash before his contract year was up the way Shanny has handled this is doubly underhanded. Shanny is a geat coach but he can be also be a vindictive cus as well.


Anyway, I hope Heimerdinger can smooth things over and get Ash in to camp.
Or they shoud ldo the honoarbale thing and woirk otu a trade for him fair and square. Leli gave us 4 yeras of good serivce backing up JAke all the way and deserves better than to be thrown on the trash pile, just because everyone is enamored with Gimpy Walker who bolted from HIS team and gave Lelie the idea of how to do it.

What did I say earlier that Walker must be rubbing it in down in Arizona each day and sure enough Lelie talks about him joking with him about selling him his house for $10-million (Walkers likely signing bonus).

The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I suspect the love affair with Walker will last until about week 6 when he starts b****ing about Rod getting too many balls, assuming he's even able to play by then.


Are you drunk?

[BroncoBuff]

I disagree. Lelie showed he can go over the middle to the end of the year when we utilized him a lot more, and when Plummer looks his direction. From the second he breaks the huddle, his eyes don't leave Rod Smith.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall that. It seems to me that I can count every ball he caught between the hashmarks on one hand. Every highlight he ever had - starting with the TD in Foxboro as a rookie - came along the sideline.

I appreciate that guys want to get something solid in return for a first-rounder, but maybe we've addressed the problem: Aren't David Terrell and David Kircus a solid pair to compete for #3? With Adams, Devoe and the rookie Marshall competing for #5 and #6?

[BroncoBuff]

And don't forget Darius Watts ...

I say the first team that offers a third-rounder for Ash ... JUMP ON IT, and move on. Start the Cutler era clean.

[Clockwork Orange]

While I haope Heimerdicnger can convicen him of reall ytruly givng him the scahne to excle thsi year whatever number they give him, what ASh said here was again reasonable.

Afdter 4 yeras as teh heir apparent hes suddenly th #3 while he did everything they asked him to do last year.

He was our most reliable WR last half of the year and was the only one making circus catches past 25 yards.

HE siad he had problem with Shann ynor the Borncos but the situation ( i.e our dumbed-down offense with Plummer) jsut dioesn't have a real role for the #3 like it did even with Greise here.

That is a tue enoug hfact and for a guy like him going into his CONTRACT year is pretty pis poor of Shanahan to not even talk this out with him but jsut satr dancing with TO and then Walker.

After promising to allow him to be traded Shanny then effectively shut the door by pricing him out of the market knowing he can't afford to lose him this year and yet wanting to put the squeeze on him for daring to want a better situation.

If as has been rumored here at UH that Shanny promised a larger role for Ash before his contract year was up the way Shanny has handled this is doubly underhanded. Shanny is a geat coach but he can be also be a vindictive cus as well.


Anyway, I hope Heimerdinger can smooth things over and get Ash in to camp.
Or they shoud ldo the honoarbale thing and woirk otu a trade for him fair and square. Leli gave us 4 yeras of good serivce backing up JAke all the way and deserves better than to be thrown on the trash pile, just because everyone is enamored with Gimpy Walker who bolted from HIS team and gave Lelie the idea of how to do it.

What did I say earlier that Walker must be rubbing it in down in Arizona each day and sure enough Lelie talks about him joking with him about selling him his house for $10-million (Walkers likely signing bonus).

The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I suspect the love affair with Walker will last until about week 6 when he starts b****ing about Rod getting too many balls, assuming he's even able to play by then.

What a complete and utter load of bull****.

[DomCasual]

Are you drunk?
I hope so.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I appreciate that guys want to get something solid in return for a first-rounder, but maybe we've addressed the problem: Aren't David Terrell and David Kircus a solid pair to compete for #3? With Adams, Devoe and the rookie Marshall competing for #5 and #6?

I think so. Watts is a speedy guy who might be able to stretch the field too. You dont have to have a world beater at #3.

[Kaylore]

While I haope Heimerdicnger can convicen him of reall ytruly givng him the scahne to excle thsi year whatever number they give him, what ASh said here was again reasonable.

Afdter 4 yeras as teh heir apparent hes suddenly th #3 while he did everything they asked him to do last year.

He was our most reliable WR last half of the year and was the only one making circus catches past 25 yards.

HE siad he had problem with Shann ynor the Borncos but the situation ( i.e our dumbed-down offense with Plummer) jsut dioesn't have a real role for the #3 like it did even with Greise here.

That is a tue enoug hfact and for a guy like him going into his CONTRACT year is pretty pis poor of Shanahan to not even talk this out with him but jsut satr dancing with TO and then Walker.

After promising to allow him to be traded Shanny then effectively shut the door by pricing him out of the market knowing he can't afford to lose him this year and yet wanting to put the squeeze on him for daring to want a better situation.

If as has been rumored here at UH that Shanny promised a larger role for Ash before his contract year was up the way Shanny has handled this is doubly underhanded. Shanny is a geat coach but he can be also be a vindictive cus as well.


Anyway, I hope Heimerdinger can smooth things over and get Ash in to camp.
Or they shoud ldo the honoarbale thing and woirk otu a trade for him fair and square. Leli gave us 4 yeras of good serivce backing up JAke all the way and deserves better than to be thrown on the trash pile, just because everyone is enamored with Gimpy Walker who bolted from HIS team and gave Lelie the idea of how to do it.

What did I say earlier that Walker must be rubbing it in down in Arizona each day and sure enough Lelie talks about him joking with him about selling him his house for $10-million (Walkers likely signing bonus).

The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I suspect the love affair with Walker will last until about week 6 when he starts b****ing about Rod getting too many balls, assuming he's even able to play by then.

Whoah. Not your best take, man. You're usually pretty good, but this is Ash homerism.

[Hulamau]

Lelie isn't making any sense.

It isn't about the money, he just wants to play. Well come to camp, beat out Walker and take your spot back. And with Walker, Smith and Lelie, who is saying we won't be doing alot of 3WR sets now? You would think Lelie would be thinking that this would open up the deep pass alot more now. Now the defense have to key in on Rod, Walker and the running game, not to mention Plummer bootleging. Lelie would have alot of one on one coverage by the #3 CBs or perhaps the safteys.

Lelie should see this as a chance for the offense to really open up for the good of the entire team, and a great chance to be back in the AFC Champ game perhaps getting to the SB this time.


Players don't care about that anymore. It's not about winning championships anymore. It's about me some more me.


That sounds great in theory but Plummer has almost NEVER been able to check down past the second option, at least with the offense as Kubes called it last year where they were trying to prevent Jake from thinking too much.

Maybe Heimerdinger can convince Ash he has more wide open plans

They wanted Jake to play the primary and if he was covered, then he went mostly to a RB or TE outlet or was supposed to throw it away quickly. It was all part of the discipline to eliminate INTs and mistakes. That isnt my opinion Jake said as much in an early season press conference last year when he was asked why he had less INTs so far.

We simply don't throw enough to make a third WR viable in this offense.

The more I think about this the more sympathetic I am with Lelies position. While I still hope he comes in, all the evidence from Walker's and TO's high profile examples (and that Denver helped support) indicates to Lelie that the ONLY way to make these situations work out in his favor is to stick by your guns and absorb the criticism and pressure by the teams until they realize you are serious and trade you away.

He is obviously not extorting us for money. He really wants to play more than anything and it just inst going to happen here after we've given Walker a $10 mill signing bonus and have King Rod fixed as our #1.

It's all fine and dandy for everyone to sit back and throw stones at the guy without really looking at the situation he's in, or knowing all the behind the scene history of what has gone on between all the players in his contract year and how this has played out. If Shanahan wants to prove he has Lelie and the teams best interest in mind he'll do the honorable thing and let Ash go at this point like he said he would.

[Hulamau]

Are you drunk?


Not Ratboy my battery on this remote keyboard is running low and all the words and letters are running together! Sorry about that :curtsey:

[BroncoBuff]

I think so. Watts is a speedy guy who might be able to stretch the field too. You dont have to have a world beater at #3.
Right. Although I think I overrated Kircus ... I just checked his stats, and he's still unproven to say the least. But the point is, we have a pair of Pro-Bowlers as starters now, and David Terrell, current #3 Charlie Adams, Kircus, Watts, Marshall, Devoe to fight for the #3 spot.

We don't need Ashley.

From the second he breaks the huddle, (Plummer's) eyes don't leave Rod Smith.
That's a very compelling take ... until you remember 2004. Jake threw Ashlie's way constantly in 04, and he caught about 55 balls for over 1000 yards.

Funny thing is, Rod also caught more long balls in 2004 than any year in his career. I think he had 3 or 4 catches of 50+ yards, including 80 yarders vs. Oak and Atlanta. In 2004, Jake was the #3 QB in fantasy numbers, too ... all of this stuff is just one year ago, and yet I think we forget how prolific that passing game was in '04.

The moral of the story is: If you cut down on INTs and mistakes ... you cut down on output, too. The playbook was chopped down this past year to eliminate Jake mistakes .... maybe that's why Lelie faded a bit .... and maybe that's why Shanny busted the move on Cutler.

[Clockwork Orange]

That sounds great in theory but Plummer has almost NEVER been able to check down past the second option, at least with the offense as Kubes called it last year where they were trying to prevent Jake from thinking too much.

Maybe Heimerdinger can convicne Ash he has more wide open plans

They wanted Jake to play the primary and if he was covered, then he went mostly to a RB or TE outlet or was supposed to throw it away quickly. It was all part of the discipline to eliminate INTs and mistakes.

We simply don't throw enough to make a third WR viable in this offense.

The more I think about this the more sympathetic I am with Lelies position. While I still hope he comes in, all the evidence from Walker's and TO's high profile examples (and that Denver helped support) indicates to Lelie that the ONLY way to make these situations work out in his favor is to stick by your guns and absorb the criticism and pressure by the teams until they realize you are serious and trade you away.

He is obviously not extorting us for money. He really wants to play more than anything and it just inst going to happen here after we've given Walker a $10 mill signing bonus and have King Rod fixed as our #1.

It's all fine and dandy for everyone to sit back and throw stones at the guy without really looking at the situation he's in, or knowing all the behind the scene history of what has gone on between all the players in his contract year and how this has played out. If Shanahan wants to prove he isnt a manipulator he'll do the honorable thing and let Ash go at this point like he said he would.

Your "King Rod" comment is really cute. Get this, Rod Smith is 10 times the football player that Ashley Lelie could ever hope to be. He got there through dedication and hard work, not whining and griping to the media. He busts his ass on every play whether he's getting the ball or not, and he's never threatened a holdout in his career. He comes to training camp every year with the mindset that he has to earn his job, he never demanded to be the #1 receiver or pissed & moaned because the Broncos traded for Javon Walker or were talking to Terrell Owens. Rod Smith has shown that he's about the team and winning. Ashley Lelie has shown that he's all about himself. I guess you just can't teach character.

The reason that "King Rod" is fixed as our #1 receiver is because he's earned it and he earns it every single year. Maybe Lelie will understand the concept of earning your spot one day. It's obvious that he hasn't yet.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Here are some RB's that might be available in a trade for Lelie:

Kevan Barlow/Frank Gore
Thomas Jones
Travis Henry/Chris Brown
Lee Suggs/William Green
Marshall Faulk
Michael Pittman
Ladell Betts

[Hulamau]

Whoah. Not your best take, man. You're usually pretty good, but this is Ash homerism.


I wrote Ash personally with my plea to him to NOT lsiten to whomever his advisors are on this and to come in and play ball, but here I feel a lot of these guys have gone overboard slamming the guy and there are a lot of folks her around UH in Hawaii that have contact with him and have some different slants, obviously from his point of view, that are worth factoring in before bringing out the tar and feathers.

Tell me one time before now the guy has caused one peep of trouble?

Him willing to give up his pay check on principle, whether we agree with him or not, is not quite the same as extorting Shanahan for a new contract or more money as Walker did to Green Bay.

The thing that gets me Kaylore is that while many here seem gleefuly ready to throw Lelie under the bus for making what we all feel is an unfortunate and ill advised decision, its hard for me to understand how the same folks can welcome Walker in here with open arms when what he just did was much worse to Green Bay using the same standard.

To me that is pure hypocrisy. I dont agree with either of their tactics and think they both (Walker and Lelie) should have played out their contracts. That is one of several reason why I would have rather gone after Donte Stallworth.

But to bitch about one guy and welcome the other with open arms is a bit creepy and self-serving to me. Unfortunately, in the NFL where short-sighted greed is the rule of the day, we set all these precidents by paying off and rewarding guys like TO and Walker for stepping over the line and then show shocked outrage when anyone else follows suit if it is convinent to do so!

[epicSocialism4tw]

I wrote Ash personally with my plea to him to NOT lsiten to whomever his advisors are on this and to come in and play ball, but here I feel a lot of these guys have gone overboard slamming the guy and there are a lot of folks her around UH in Hawaii that have contact with him and have some different slants, obviously from his point of view, that are worth factoring in before bringing out the tar and feathers.

Tell me one time before now the guy has caused one peep of trouble?

Him willing to give up his pay check on principle, whether we agree with him or not, is not quite the same as extorting Shanahan for a new contract or more money as Walker did to Green Bay.

The thing that gets me Kaylore is that while many here seem gleefuly ready to throw Lelie under the bus for making what we all feel is an unfortunate and ill advised decision, its hard for me to understand how the same folks can welcome Walker in here with open arms when what he just did was much worse to Green Bay using the same standard.

To me that is pure hypocrisy. I dont agree with either of their tactics and think they both (Walker and Lelie) should have played out their contracts. That is one of several reason why I would have rather gone after Donte Stallworth.

But to b**** about one guy and welcome the other with open arms is a bit creepy and self-serving to me. Unfortunately, in the NFL weer short sighted greed is the rule of hte day, we set all these precidents by paying off and rewarding guys like TO and Walker for stepping over the line and then show shocked outrage when anyone else follows suit if it is convinent to do so!

I dont agree with your basic premise that Walker is an extortionist and a troublemaker. Walker tried to get a new contract, but he didnt miss any football because of that. He showed up at camp. He came to play. He tore his ACL, remember?

[Hulamau]

Your "King Rod" comment is really cute. Get this, Rod Smith is 10 times the football player that Ashley Lelie could ever hope to be. He got there through dedication and hard work, not whining and griping to the media. He busts his ass on every play whether he's getting the ball or not, and he's never threatened a holdout in his career. He comes to training camp every year with the mindset that he has to earn his job, he never demanded to be the #1 receiver or pissed & moaned because the Broncos traded for Javon Walker or were talking to Terrell Owens. Rod Smith has shown that he's about the team and winning. Ashley Lelie has shown that he's all about himself. I guess you just can't teach character.

The reason that "King Rod" is fixed as our #1 receiver is because he's earned it and he earns it every single year. Maybe Lelie will understand the concept of earning your spot one day. It's obvious that he hasn't yet.


Your entitiled to your opinion Clockwork but I never complained once about Rod or what he earned here, nor has Lelie.

We all now King Rod got that way for a good reason, but its also true as Jake said today that no one is unseating Rod so long as he can play half way decent as he is the face and soul of the team. From what I get from Lelie is that its not so much being called #1 he is after but simply wants more opportunity rather than the 2 or 3 balls max a week he got last year.

Even Kubick said it was HIS fault for not getting Ash more involved in the offense and this BS of yours that Lelie is some whiner is purely a reaction of outrage to a percieved slight, when if you carefully read what he said above, you get a much more levelheaded reply. Whether or not you agree with his conclusion, he isnt dissing Shanny nor Plummer nor the Broncos, but simply doesn't want to blow his contract year on the bench after working just as hard as any one else here for 4 years.

Again he is going about expressing his grievance the wrong way in my opinion by going public like this out of frustration from the trade this weekend, but I respect his right to seek out the best opportunity for himself in his contract year.

[Hulamau]

I dont agree with your basic premise that Walker is an extortionist and a troublemaker. Walker tried to get a new contract, but he didnt miss any football because of that. He showed up at camp. He came to play. He tore his ACL, remember?


Ash hasn't missed a day yet either angrylama, and that was last year Walker finally reported after missing the entire preseason work outs at GB. This year Walker said he was absolutely GOING to RETIRE if he wasnt traded and even sold his house in Green Bay to make a point! He wouldnt even return the calls of the green Bay front office.

I don't know what they call that where you are from, but extortion or perhaps we can call it "hard core bargaining" is a farily close fit.

Go read what some of the Green Bay fans think of Walker! Makes what some of these guys here are calling Ash sound like a choir boy!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Again he is going about expressing his grievance the wrong way in my opinion by going public like this out of frustration from the trade this weekend, but I respect his right to seek out the best opportunity for himself in his contract year.

Im sure most Bronco fans would love to see Lelie a happy camper. Whether in Denver or in another town (as long as its in the NFC :) ).

We arent really discussing that, though. I hope that Lelie becomes a great #1 reciever.

From the press conferences of Jake and Shanny, I gathered that Lelie has a little higher opinion of himself than what reality seems to be. Shanny and Jake both mentioned competition, and that guys who compete and come out on top are the ones that earn the throws. The difference is that Jake didnt shy away from the idea, while Lelie took his ball and went home.

[OrangeDoofus]

I'm just worried about Javon Walker or one of the rookies having to step up and replace that one touchdown that Lelie caught last year. That's a lot to ask.

Come on, let's be fair. He scored against the Steelers as well. That's TWO whole touchdowns.

[Hulamau]

Right. Although I think I overrated Kircus ... I just checked his stats, and he's still unproven to say the least. But the point is, we have a pair of Pro-Bowlers as starters now, and David Terrell, current #3 Charlie Adams, Kircus, Watts, Marshall, Devoe to fight for the #3 spot.

We don't need Ashley.


That's a very compelling take ... until you remember 2004. Jake threw Ashlie's way constantly in 04, and he caught about 55 balls for over 1000 yards.

Funny thing is, Rod also caught more long balls in 2004 than any year in his career. I think he had 3 or 4 catches of 50+ yards, including 80 yarders vs. Oak and Atlanta. In 2004, Jake was the #3 QB in fantasy numbers, too ... all of this stuff is just one year ago, and yet I think we forget how prolific that passing game was in '04.

The moral of the story is: If you cut down on INTs and mistakes ... you cut down on output, too. The playbook was chopped down this past year to eliminate Jake mistakes .... maybe that's why Lelie faded a bit .... and maybe that's why Shanny busted the move on Cutler.


That is precisely the issue BroncoBuff1. After Ash having a great year in 04 for a #2 WR, we dumbdown the passing attack to make JAke a game manager and not a game winner, hopeing we would be more successful with a solid defense and more efficient but less wide open offense.

It was a good move by Shanny to maximize Plummers strengths and minimize his weaknesses, but Lelie was the clear sacrifice, so his numbers dropped directly as a result and eveyone then superfically jumps down his throat as a loser who is inconsistent. No wonder he is ticked off.

When you go back and actually watch all the film from last year Lelie was highly consistent with the opportunites he got and blocked very well and as Shanny said "He has done everything we have asked of him".

He isnt complaining about any person on the team or coach, but states quite correctly that as long as we are going to use that kind of cautious passing attack with Plummer pulling the trigger he isnt going to be able to make any real strides and he wanted some assurancnes of more opportunity at least to compete for better or worse.

I think he should still bite the bullet like SOCal and I both agree on and just sign a one year deal with another team after next year and prove to them what he can do and then go for the big contract a year later and write it all off to the bad luck of being drafted by us when he was.

[watermock]

Lelie is under contract. Period.

[Odysseus]

It didn't work begging Pryce why is it going to work begging Lelie? Pryce ended up leaving.

Why didn't Lelie say anything before the Javon signing?

How are the Broncos supposed to reward a player who isn't willing to return phone calls or at least participate in practice.

Lelie knows he is talented and that he is a important part of the Broncos offense. How exactly does making potentially HUGE catches as the 3rd WR for your team and winning a Superbowl such a horrible thing? When you have a ring on your finger...numnuts...getting paid is easy.

[watermock]

Lelie is under a rookie contract. Pryce was due 8.5 in salary alone.

[fontaine]

Lelie is already moaning about trading for Walker?

It's pretty obvious how insecure this guy is about his own abilities. We bring in a new WR who's coming off an ACL, can't even run full speed/cut etc yet and has to learn the system, but Lelie is so threatened by this guy that he's already resigned himself to the number 3 spot.

Keep up that winning attitude Ashley.

[Odysseus]

Lelie is under a rookie contract. Pryce was due 8.5 in salary alone.

That isn't the point Mock. If Lelie is a pro bowl reciever than he should come back and prove it. He owes his fans one pro bowl. Oh wait! He wants to start ahead of two pro bowl WR because he deserves it? We have a roster full of WR who deserve a shot.

Why are we begging Lelie to come back when he clearly doesn't get it....Rod Smith IS KING ROD. He's badder than King Kong and Chuck Norris combined.

We begged Pryce to come back because he was salvation for us as a DE. He wasn't an impact player. Now we are begging for Lelie to save us? From what? If a player wants to go then we need to accomodate them. What do you think Mock. How about Lelie as a Viking. He'd make a great 3rd WR for them!

[Ballhawk]

Ashley, we had high hopes for you here and you didnt deliver. I hope that you find a place where you will fit in, because this obviously wasnt the place. Good luck in Philly.

Edit: per ESPN TV 5/1/06

He would to well in Philly send him to Chicago. Dammit... now I am rooting for myself to lose my bet with Popps!

[Don Flamenco]

What game was it last year that Rod caught the ball and drove a cb 4 yards to get the first down to seal the game. Right after the play you see a glimpse of Lelie doing the whole bowing down motion to him. Then during the preaseason Ashley wearing a #80 jersey in the sidelines.

He always seemed like Rod was his mentor and he thought the world of him. Maybe they should send Rod to mediate and not hemerdinger. Too bad Ashley is taking this approach. I would have loved to see him take over the #1 or #2 when Rod hangs them up.

[OrangeShadow]

i want this to be resolved. rod javon and ash as a 3 WR set would be nasty

[Arkansas Bronco]

Are you drunk?
I am here to defend the rights to post drunk. I feel that it is one hell of a time to actualy spew usless thoughts and ideas with people who realy dont care ;)

[Old Dude]

No rush to get anything done now.

The Broncos need to concentrate on getting their picks signed and into camp. If Lelie wants to sit out camp, then start the fine ticker rolling. Chances are that two or three teams will lose WR's in the preseason grind, and that someone will get desperate and eventually inquire about Ash.

Hopefully, we can get a player out of the deal, down the road somewhere.

[Arkansas Bronco]

After I read the article on page one I have totaly given up on Lelie I realy dont care what we do with him or what happens to him. I say trade him to Chicago for a pack of Wrigleys Double Mint gum just get him out of here or stop talking to him all togather and make him loose a year of salary. Dude is scared to come in and compete with a guy coming off an ACL if JW was totaly rehabed I could see him having a problem but the way talk is JW wont realy be ready for much till the actual start of the season. Lelie could have stayed the #2 for awhile to bad he cant take the pressure.

[Ballhawk]

No rush to get anything done now.

The Broncos need to concentrate on getting their picks signed and into camp. If Lelie wants to sit out camp, then start the fine ticker rolling. Chances are that two or three teams will lose WR's in the preseason grind, and that someone will get desperate and eventually inquire about Ash.

Hopefully, we can get a player out of the deal, down the road somewhere.

Best thought on him yet. Let him take his ball and go home, we have other balls.

[Garcia Bronco]

This is a sad ending. I remember the day Denver drafted Ashley and he was so excited to be a Bronco.

.


Ahh yeah...I threw a computer out the window when we drafted his ass.

[RMT]

The fact that Lelie wants to traded is him admitting he doesn't have the talent to compete with Javon or Rod. He's afraid of the competition.

[Garcia Bronco]

"Me coming back is definitely out of the question at this point with me being the No. 3 receiver," Lelie said Monday night from Arizona. "There's nothing to mend. There's no solution. ... Let me go somewhere where I can compete."

You know what...there is nothing I hate more than a dumb mother****er. Look at this loser. He's already defeated in his mind. "I'll will be the number 3 receiver."...wtf....you will with that attitude...no matter where you go. I hope we sit on his ass.

[Garcia Bronco]

The fact that Lelie wants to traded is him admitting he doesn't have the talent to compete with Javon or Rod. He's afraid of the competition.


Exactly.

[-Slap-]

Here are some RB's that might be available in a trade for Lelie:

Kevan Barlow/Frank Gore
Thomas Jones
Travis Henry/Chris Brown
Lee Suggs/William Green
Marshall Faulk
Michael Pittman
Ladell Betts
If the Rams don't want to part with Marshall Faulk, maybe they can send us Lawrence McCutcheon.

The only guys on this list I would even want on the team are Jones, Betts or Gore.

[Drek]

If we could get Jones for Lelie I'd **** my pants with glee.

He's only 27 (28 in august) and would be dominant in our system. ****in' DOMINANT.

[Ballhawk]

If we could get Jones for Lelie I'd **** my pants with glee.

He's only 27 (28 in august) and would be dominant in our system. ****in' DOMINANT.
Not sure he is at all contract friendly tho. He would be the best pass catching back we have had since Milborn.

He is also pulling a Lelie by working out away from the team and demanding a trade, difference being is he was a much better RB than the guy taking his spot.

[BombsOverBaghdad]

That isn't the point Mock.

We begged Pryce to come back because he was salvation for us as a DE. He wasn't an impact player. Now we are begging for Lelie to save us? From what? If a player wants to go then we need to accomodate them. What do you think Mock. How about Lelie as a Viking. He'd make a great 3rd WR for them!

Trying to look at all sides of this arguement ......... understand why Lelie is upset .......... understand why Shanny went in another direction ............... It is difficult for me to see how Lelie wins in this equation. If he holds out he only further decreases his trade value and I cannot think of one team that he would be competing for the #1 WR role. I mean really, where would he go and be able to compete for the #1 spot?

His smartest option is to report and work hard.

[BroncoBen]

If as has been rumored here at UH that Shanny promised a larger role for Ash before his contract year was up the way Shanny has handled this is doubly underhanded. Shanny is a geat coach but he can be also be a vindictive cus as well.

WTF are you kidding me.. 'rumored', the way Lelie is talking you know he would come out and say... "Mike Shannahan promised me….blah blah <b>Starter</b>.. blah blah”. Might as well say it was ‘rumored’ that Rod Smith is going to be regulated to the #3 spot because Lelie was <b>promised</b> he would be the #1 WR.

[Ballhawk]

WTF are you kidding me.. 'rumored', the way Lelie is talking you know he would come out and say... "Mike Shannahan promised me….blah blah <b>Starter</b>.. blah blah”. Might as well say it was ‘rumored’ that Rod Smith is going to be regulated to the #3 spot because Lelie was <b>promised</b> he would be the #1 WR.

Agree, Shanny does not promise anything he makes you earn it.

[Drek]

Not sure he is at all contract friendly tho. He would be the best pass catching back we have had since Milborn.

He is also pulling a Lelie by working out away from the team and demanding a trade, difference being is he was a much better RB than the guy taking his spot.
I think his contract is one of the few reasons we'd be able to actually do that trade. I think we can find the cap room to make it work.

As for his own holdout, well, he is in a different situation, having proven himself at the NFL level with a great season last year and still likely to lose his job. Has he actually threatened a hold out though? Lelie working out on his own doesn't bother me, its the hold out **** that does.

[Mile High Shack]

I don't understand why coconut hands is even bitching

if he thinks he is that good, come to camp and beat out Javon, it shouldn't be too hard for someone with his "ability"...then since you are so good coconut hands......you will get paid big bucks next season b/c you are a UFA. So quit bitching and prove something. Ashley Simpson is a moron for threatening a hold out.

I wouldn't accept anything less than a 4th for him

c'mon, Ash, don't be a gigantic vagina....oh wait, too late

[Ballhawk]

I think his contract is one of the few reasons we'd be able to actually do that trade. I think we can find the cap room to make it work.

As for his own holdout, well, he is in a different situation, having proven himself at the NFL level with a great season last year and still likely to lose his job. Has he actually threatened a hold out though? Lelie working out on his own doesn't bother me, its the hold out **** that does.

I dont know the whole story. He wasn't at all pissy about Benson being drafted and went out and did a great job last year, in fact he was their most consistant guy on O.

Something obviously changed this year tho. Could have been Mngt telling him he was #2 guy (Shanny never said Lelie was #3 Lelie just doesnt want to fight for it).

[Mile High Shack]

I dont know the whole story. He wasn't at all pissy about Benson being drafted and went out and did a great job last year, in fact he was their most consistant guy on O.

Something obviously changed this year tho. Could have been Mngt telling him he was #2 guy (Shanny never said Lelie was #3 Lelie just doesnt want to fight for it).

has coconut hands ever done anything to prove he is anything more than a one trick pony?

[broncohaven]

Him willing to give up his pay check on principle, whether we agree with him or not, is not quite the same as extorting Shanahan for a new contract or more money as Walker did to Green Bay.

The thing that gets me Kaylore is that while many here seem gleefuly ready to throw Lelie under the bus for making what we all feel is an unfortunate and ill advised decision, its hard for me to understand how the same folks can welcome Walker in here with open arms when what he just did was much worse to Green Bay using the same standard.

To me that is pure hypocrisy. I dont agree with either of their tactics and think they both (Walker and Lelie) should have played out their contracts. That is one of several reason why I would have rather gone after Donte Stallworth.
I usually enjoy your takes Hula, but it's clear on this issue that your location belies your objectivity. Comparing Walker to Lelie is apples to oranges. Walker is a Pro Bowl receiver who was coming off as good a year as any receiver in the NFL when he brought up his contract. While I don't condone his actions based on that, it does give him a leg to stand on. Lelie has proven very little in this league to deserve being handed what he's asking for.

Lelie took a huge step backwards last season. In my experience players who say "I'm not getting a chance" are looking in the wrong direction. I've done it myself, and only in hindsight did I realize how foolish it is to expect to be given an opportunity rather than making one. Lelie clearly feels he's entitled to a #1 spot, but he also clearly has not earned it. Walker has.

Also, no one from the Broncos has thrown Ashley under the bus like Favre did in Green Bay. Favre broke an unwritten law in teammate relations', and due at least as much blame as Walker. After Walker tore his ACL he said that he was going to rehab as hard as he could to get back top speed for the Packers in '06. Hardly the actions of an extortionist.

While contract issues are annoying, this is still a business. My guess is that the deal in GB was 95% agent, and 5% Walker. Walker had the wherewithall to get rid of Rosenhaus. Ashley quite simply isn't a #1 receiver, and to expect to be given the job is absurd.

[Requiem]

Jake was right when he said nobody would beat out Rod for #1. Ashley isn't going to beat out a guy who is going to get a big pay day either. We're not going to pay Walker that much for him to play slot. Ashley could rip it up on the field and still wouldn't be upgraded. People say Lelie never stepped it up? Bull****, he did his third year when we were in an more "open" offense. Now Plummer manages games, and Lelie suffers because of it. I love Rod to death, but there is no doubt his presence has hindered Ashley's ability to ever assume the #1 role.

If you actually think Lelie would EVER be #1 here with Smith on the squad, you're kidding yourself.

[BroncoFiend]

We need to unload Lelie to an NFC team ASAP. I like Lelie, always have and I wish he would WANT to stay.

I hate the whole #1, #2, #3 reciever thing. It's not like the QB position where the #2 and #3 don't play. Why can't it just be that there are three great recievers ready to make plays every week?

It's clear he's not going to play for us, he has already said too much to come back. We should trade him and a future pick to NO for Donte Stallworth, or trade him straight up for Charles Rogers. Both are talented receivers who can help our offense. I'd rather have Lelie than either of them because with the addition of Walker I think Lelie is now the perfect fit as a deep threat, but better to trade him now, than face him as a Chief in '07.

[Requiem]

You assume that Stallworth would want that role, and I doubt he would. He wants to be a starter somewhere too.

[Arkansas Bronco]

You assume that Stallworth would want that role, and I doubt he would. He wants to be a starter somewhere too.
NFLE and the CFL have openings at the #1 WR maybey Stall. and Lelie should check that out.

[Jason in LA]

The guy has no leverage. He'll be in camp.

[Requiem]

All these posts bashing Lelie are just laughable, put yourself in his shoes and you'd do the same thing. If something similar happened at your job, you'd feel the same way too.

[Ballhawk]

Jake was right when he said nobody would beat out Rod for #1. Ashley isn't going to beat out a guy who is going to get a big pay day either. We're not going to pay Walker that much for him to play slot. Ashley could rip it up on the field and still wouldn't be upgraded. People say Lelie never stepped it up? Bull****, he did his third year when we were in an more "open" offense. Now Plummer manages games, and Lelie suffers because of it. I love Rod to death, but there is no doubt his presence has hindered Ashley's ability to ever assume the #1 role.

If you actually think Lelie would EVER be #1 here with Smith on the squad, you're kidding yourself.

Didnt Rod Smith beat out a big contract guy named Anthony Miller? Shanny has always played the best guys. Give me one example where the betterr player has sat on the bench. Im sure Shanny wanted Bell to beat out MA, but MA had a much better camp. Fact is Lelie would have opened up the season as the #2 WR, no way does Javon come in and beat a healthy Lelie out of that spot. Shanny said 3 times in his press conferance that they were going to bring JW along slowly. If Ash starts as the #2 guy and kicked butt on Sundays you really think Shanny would bench him in favor of JW later on?

Lelie had all the advantages of being a starter this year, his contract year, hell with a little more passion and fight he could have supplanted Rod (who is what 36?) and been in a great position to get a nice contract.

[Arkansas Bronco]

All these posts bashing Lelie are just laughable, put yourself in his shoes and you'd do the same thing. If something similar happened at your job, you'd feel the same way too.
If i was still getting paid by my job (and as the way most contracts work his pay probably went up) then i would keep showing up. He was crying even before we got JW. You trying to defend a man for not wanting to try is what is Laughable.

[bronco militia]

you won't see Ashley Lelie in a Donk uniform again.

[Rascal]

Here are some RB's that might be available in a trade for Lelie:

Kevan Barlow/Frank Gore
Thomas Jones
Travis Henry/Chris Brown
Lee Suggs/William Green
Marshall Faulk
Michael Pittman
Ladell Betts

I'd rather get a DT, DE, or S.

[BroncoBen]

All these posts bashing Lelie are just laughable, put yourself in his shoes and you'd do the same thing. If something similar happened at your job, you'd feel the same way too.

OK.. so I am lucky enough to have the skills to play professional football for a living. I am a multi-millionaire so my family is set for the foreseeable future. My only complaint I have is that my team has not made me the #1 WR on my team. Humm what I would do is work my arse off and prove to my team that I deserve the #1 spot.

Do I try to get the position of being the #1 WR by crying about it to the press and threaten a holdout?

I don’t think so.. but that is me.

[Mediator12]

Here is the deal:

1. Ashley has had FOUR years to impress the coaching Staff and make his claim as a legit WR that has the opportunity to replace Rod Smith when he retires. There is a whole lot FANS do not get to see. Practice, film sessions, position meetings, training camps, etc. We only evaluate what we have seen in Games, the Staff has considerable more exposure to the whole package. The Broncos have a responsibility to upgrade where they see need for improvement. They felt they need another quality WR.

2. Lelie has NEVER had a serious threat to supplant him as a #2. The Broncos were happy to give the TE's the third WR options in this offense. Now, this threatens Lelie. And it should. The writing is on the wall Ashley. No more coddling Probowl talent. Become a mentally tough competitor, fight for what is yours, and do what it takes to get what everyone wants for you to do and that is Produce on the field.

3. Become the Complete package as Mike Shanahan called your Buddy Javon walker. The #1 WR in NFL has to be able to do it all. Every team needs a complete #1 WR and as of right now, Lelie is the only one holding himself from being a #1. The things he lacks are mental, not Physical. Dude is 6'3 210 with 4.3 speed. No physical weaknesses.

4. This is Lelie's wakeup call. He has been allowed to progress at his own pace until this point. Hulamau alluded to assurances of being able to replace Rod. What he failed to mention is the Caveat. That should read, "Produce to your abilities and you will be the #1 WR before your contract expires." Now, the Staff is challenging him to compete and he is throwing a tantrum tantamount to taking his ball and going home. He is running from a fight. Not the guy I want to throw the ball to in crunch time! Lelie will NEVER be a #1 WR in this league until his attitude matches his physical giftedness.

5. I want Lelie to succeed just as much as anyone else here. For that Matter, I want Jake Plummer to Succeed just as much as anyone here. The Broncos have made Huge investments in each player and ALSO want them to Succeed. The Problem is, they are responsible for their performances and No one else can do it for them. In this case, Ashley lelie needs to learn a lesson. I hope it is not the hard way, but sometimes that is what it takes.

[MileHighMania]

Let's trade Lelie and a mid round pick in 2007 to the Bears for Thomas Jones.... something like that, let's find a team (preferably NFC) and trade Lelie for a player of need from a team that has good depth at that position.

[fontaine]

OK.. so I am lucky enough to have the skills to play professional football for a living. I am a multi-millionaire so my family is set for the foreseeable future. My only complaint I have is that my team has not made me the #1 WR on my team. Humm what I would do is work my arse off and prove to my team that I deserve the #1 spot.

Do I try to get the position of being the #1 WR by crying about it to the press and threaten a holdout?

I don’t think so.. but that is me.

Exactly.

What Lelie seems to forget is that he's had every opportunity to win the number 1 job for years yet Rod beats him out hands down every time. In the NFL three years is a world of time and he'll get his second chance somewhere else but he needs to wake up and stop babying himself if he thinks he didn't get a shot here.

And all this bullsh*t about Lelie not being given equal opportunities is unbelievable.

If you have a WR that STILL has trouble getting jammed off the line then would you entrust the offense on him or someone else (Rod) who's far more dependable and consistent?

Would you have thrown the ball 50-70 times to Watts last year knowing how inconsistent his hands were? Sure he would have ended up with great stats for a 2nd year WR but the offense would have gone to hell.

What's hilarious to me is that people just brush off Lelie's weakenesses like it was no big thing. Like or not, he still has trouble getting physical, is a long strider, he's limited in his routes and can't get off the line cleanly and consistently. Any jacka$$ would think twice about throwing more looks his way since short to intermediate passes are based on timing and anticipation which comes from consistency NOT potential. Any coach would rather punch himself in the nuts than use lower percentage plays/players like Lelie compared to Rod.

[Old Dude]

I was thinking that the Rams have a couple good slot receivers in Curtis & McDonald and that maybe we could trade Lelie for one of those guys. But then I realized that Ash wouldn't go for it, because he caould never beat out Holt.

Come to think of of it, where could he be a number one WR? Kansas City maybe?

[broncsyanks]

my take on him is this:

lelie sits out. he blames the system. He is not a T.O caliber WR that can get away with the things that TO didi get away with. At present we cant get a losy 2nd round pick for him. what makes him think that he can get anything better on the open market? if that value hasnt increased and if he thinks sitting out will help his chances he sure as hell is not the sharpest tool in the shed!!!!
he has no real bargaining chip here. its real sad, yes we all know how this will pan out. he will sit out the year. he will get a 1 yr contract from KC that he thinks will give him the best chance to play in a passing offense. well that s ok to lelie. at least you arent getting paid by us and you wont get a contract next year at the money you are gettting this year. that sounds great to me. good job. and once he gets bumped at the line and cant recover then i will be laughing my a** off. have a good life. jevon and rod and the new kids along with adams and devoe. sounds great to me

[Garcia Bronco]

Ashley's a bitch

[Bronco X]

All these posts bashing Lelie are just laughable, put yourself in his shoes and you'd do the same thing. If something similar happened at your job, you'd feel the same way too.

I don't agree. Jake Plummer isn't in a completely different situation. Sure, there is a big difference in that Cutler isn't expected to start. But Jake is going to play this season knowing full well it could be his last with the team. I'm sure even though he said all the right things, that doesn't sit well with him. But I believe him when he says he's going to go out there and play hard. He knows he needs to have his greatest season to stay with the team. He's going to work hard to make it happen.

Lelie feels entitled to a certain position and rather than going out and trying to earn it, he's threatening a holdout. He just hasn't done anything to deserve to be more than the Broncos #3 reciever. Unfortunatley, I don't really see anything different coming from Lelie the rest of his career. He'll be a soft reciever with a penchant for making huge plays.

[Garcia Bronco]

All these posts bashing Lelie are just laughable, put yourself in his shoes and you'd do the same thing. If something similar happened at your job, you'd feel the same way too.

If I was in his shoes...I'd be the number 1 and have a better working relationship with my QB. My team wouldn't have had to trade for a WR with the 2nd pick. And If they did and I wasn't the number 1...I'd do all I could to be that, and not point fingers at others as to why I'm not that. Nor would I'd be affraid of the players brought in to push me...because I'm the best. See he's got the talent...but he's also got a 5 cent head.

[defenseman]

Has anyone thought about this? ROD SMITH, hasn't said a word as far as I know. He will continue to work out, and come camp, he'll be in there fighting to maintain status quo. No complaints, no excuses. He, like plummer it appears, is not and does not feel threatened by the competition Walker brings to the table. LELIE, commences to whine incessantly about the acquisition? I don't get it......why hasn't just a smidgin of Rod smith rubbed off on Lelie. I'm thinking, based on the reality of the whole situation, Lelie HAS to be gone. He truley has missed the boat and I do not believe shanahan can "waste" a roster spot on someone that is somewhat "talented" but does not have the personal "substance" that matches the talent.....he's outta here...dman

[bendog]

If the Rams don't want to part with Marshall Faulk, maybe they can send us Lawrence McCutcheon.

The only guys on this list I would even want on the team are Jones, Betts or Gore.
I'd bite on Pittman. With House Arrest rehabbing, we could use a wife beater. Actually, I think he rammed his wife and kid with a car.

[DarkHorse30]

I think Lelie's biggest problem has always been his name. Ashley is a girl name.......and his initials are AL. If only he had changed his name to Gaylord Focker or something, maybe Shanahan would call plays for GF...not AL.

BTW, if you're reading this Ashley, I'm just kidding. Please go change your diaper and get to the gym.

[defenseman]

What a nice guy this "Pittman" appears to be, a wife/child abuser...yeah we want him on the broncos....I think not....dman

[Rascal]

I bet the Jags, Browns, Chargers, Chiefs, Falcons, and Eagles would be interested in him.

[Beantown Bronco]

I'm in the "trade Lelie for a conditional pick in '07" camp. If he lights it up for his next team, we get a 2nd. If he plays full time and puts up average to decent numbers, a 3rd.....and so on.

[MileHighMania]

The Falcons drafted another RB high if I recall... trade him to Hotlanta for Duckett.

[Old Dude]

Duckett would make some sense, but the Falcons want to check out their draft pick first.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/sports/steelerslive/s_449493.html

[Nuggets4]

If Lelie had 1/2 the work ethic of Rod Smith, he'd be working his way to the Hall of Fame. Too bad he's too busy whining. I hope we don't trade him. I hope we sit his ass all year ruining his market value. Let's see how the #1 reciever likes being behind DeVoe, Watts and Adams on the depth chart.

[Odysseus]

Has anyone thought about this? ROD SMITH, hasn't said a word as far as I know. He will continue to work out, and come camp, he'll be in there fighting to maintain status quo. No complaints, no excuses. He, like plummer it appears, is not and does not feel threatened by the competition Walker brings to the table. LELIE, commences to whine incessantly about the acquisition? I don't get it......why hasn't just a smidgin of Rod smith rubbed off on Lelie. I'm thinking, based on the reality of the whole situation, Lelie HAS to be gone. He truley has missed the boat and I do not believe shanahan can "waste" a roster spot on someone that is somewhat "talented" but does not have the personal "substance" that matches the talent.....he's outta here...dman

You should never have to ask someone to show integrity. They have it or they don't and right now all Ashley is thinking about is Ashley. Ashley thinks he's all world and it's all the Broncos fault that he is not. I think Rod deserves props for not saying anything and letting this team matter work itself out. Lelie is threatening to divide the lockerroom with this.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Posted on: Monday, May 1, 2006 6:32 PM HST Lelie says he's likely done with Broncos

Former UH and Radford standout asks again for a trade

Dave Reardon
dreardon@starbulletin.com (dreardon@starbulletin.com?subject=Breaking News: Lelie says he)

<HR width=36 SIZE=1>

Wide receiver Ashley Lelie said today he is “pretty sure” he has played his last game for the Denver Broncos.

“I wouldn’t say it’s 100 percent, but right now it looks that way,” the former Radford and Hawaii star and 2002 first round draft pick said in a phone interview with the Star-Bulletin.

The Broncos traded for Packers star wideout Javon Walker over the weekend. Lelie was drafted 19th overall, one spot ahead of Walker four years ago, but Lelie said Walker, a 2004 All-Pro, is now one ahead of him on the Denver depth chart. And that has Lelie — who was already looking to be traded — asking again to be moved, louder this time.

Walker was out for all but one game last season with a torn ACL.

“I don’t want to go back down to No. 3 without a fair shot,” Lelie said. “It’s pretty clear what direction the Broncos are headed in.”

All-Pro Rod Smith turns 36 this month, but hasn’t slowed down. The Broncos also have another former first-round draft pick in David Terrell.

Denver also drafted two wide receivers, both in the fourth round. The Broncos picked Akron’s Domenik Hixon and Central Florida’s Brandon Marshall. Marshall starred in the Hawaii Bowl and Hula Bowl this year.

The Broncos reportedly have been shopping Lelie, but with no takers yet, and coach Mike Shanahan said he expected that Lelie would still be with Denver this season.

Lelie caught 54 passes for 1,084 yards and seven touchdowns in 2004, but regressed to 42, 770 and one last year. He remains a deep threat; his yards-per-catch of 18.3 last year led the league, as did his mark of 20.1 the previous season.

“A lot of people right now say my production is low,” Lelie said. “Actually, anyone who looks at the tape knows our system dictates that, because we’re a running team.”

Lelie is skipping the team’s organized off-season workouts, and said he will holdout this season if he has to.

“I’ve mostly been here in Phoenix, working out at Octagon (his agency’s facilities),” said Lelie,who is headed into the final year of his contract. “I have nothing against Denver or the fans, they’ve been great. I’ve held myself up with class and never been out of line, I’m in a system where you do what you’re told. But I’m not going to go to the bench without a fair opportunity to keep my position.
“My best years are definitely ahead. I’m only 26 and haven’t had any injuries. I still have at least six or seven good years ahead.”

[Rascal]

Ashley, we had high hopes for you here and you didnt deliver. I hope that you find a place where you will fit in, because this obviously wasnt the place. Good luck in Philly.

Edit: per ESPN TV 5/1/06

If people would read my posts they would realize I posted this yesterday long before ESPN reported it.


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1094703#post1094703

[Arkansas Bronco]

“I don’t want to go back down to No. 3 without a fair shot,” Lelie said. “It’s pretty clear what direction the Broncos are headed in.”
There is always a shot. If you are better than the other players you get that shot. What he is saying to me is that JW is to good for me to beat so i better move

[Paladin]

Six or seven years ahead........

Hope you find them. Elsewhere.

[Garcia Bronco]

He went to school in Radford Virginia?

[Rascal]

He went to school in Radford Virginia?

uh oh...Garcia loves him now. We can't trade him.

[Garcia Bronco]

uh oh...Garcia loves him now. We can't trade him.

I just didn't know that because I don't think Radford has a football team, ...him going to Radford is of no consequence.

[orange 4 life]

this sucks.

can someone (bpc/chris, are you out there?) please call ashley
and inform him that he'll have BETTER stats this year as a #3 than he
had last year as a #2?

smith, walker, lelie

an UNSTOPPABLE trio, and having smith and walker outside would leave lelie open so much he'd have time to have lunch and take a nap before catching the ball.

man i wish this was going down different.
ashley said in todays paper "we dont run alot of 3 receiver sets."

i got news for you ash.
if you stay, we'd run ALL KINDS of 3 receive sets.
hell, our BASE offense might be a 3 receiver set.

i wish the team could do some ego stroking and publicly say there IS NO #1, #2, and #3.
there's just 3 guys that are all players and all making plays.
look at the colts. their 3-some did pretty well didnt it?
ash could have 1000 yard season with walker and smith ALSO being productive.

its probably too late now after lelies comments, but someone needs to knock some sense into him.
hell, his contract expires in a year, and THIS year is all i care about anyway.
i want another trophy, and smith, walker, and lelie on the field at the same time would be a great way to help us get that trophy.
just my .02

jake

[Ratboy]

Not Ratboy my battery on this remote keyboard is running low and all the words and letters are running together! Sorry about that :curtsey:

:spit: No problem.

[fontaine]

this sucks.

can someone (bpc/chris, are you out there?) please call ashley
and inform him that he'll have BETTER stats this year as a #3 than he
had last year as a #2?

smith, walker, lelie

an UNSTOPPABLE trio, and having smith and walker outside would leave lelie open so much he'd have time to have lunch and take a nap before catching the ball.

man i wish this was going down different.
ashley said in todays paper "we dont run alot of 3 receiver sets."

i got news for you ash.
if you stay, we'd run ALL KINDS of 3 receive sets.
hell, our BASE offense might be a 3 receiver set.

i wish the team could do some ego stroking and publicly say there IS NO #1, #2, and #3.
there's just 3 guys that are all players and all making plays.
look at the colts. their 3-some did pretty well didnt it?
ash could have 1000 yard season with walker and smith ALSO being productive.

its probably too late now after lelies comments, but someone needs to knock some sense into him.
hell, his contract expires in a year, and THIS year is all i care about anyway.
i want another trophy, and smith, walker, and lelie on the field at the same time would be a great way to help us get that trophy.
just my .02

jake

Lelie can piss off to some other team. I don't want any players on this team that are that afraid of competition especially when they are role players at best.

[Needa Pass Rush]

I just didn't know that because I don't think Radford has a football team, ...him going to Radford is of no consequence.

It's a HI newspaper, GB. They don't even know where Radford (VA) is!

PERSONAL: Lelie is a 1998 graduate of Radford High School in Honolulu, where he earned two letters each in football, track and basketball. He was selected to both the all-district and all-state teams in football and was an all-district choice in basketball and an all-league selection in track. An honor roll student at Radford, Ashley Jovon Lelie was born Feb. 16, 1980, in Bellflower, Calif.

[Old Dude]

this sucks.

can someone (bpc/chris, are you out there?) please call ashley
and inform him that he'll have BETTER stats this year as a #3 than he
had last year as a #2?

smith, walker, lelie

an UNSTOPPABLE trio, and having smith and walker outside would leave lelie open so much he'd have time to have lunch and take a nap before catching the ball.

man i wish this was going down different.
ashley said in todays paper "we dont run alot of 3 receiver sets."

i got news for you ash.
if you stay, we'd run ALL KINDS of 3 receive sets.
hell, our BASE offense might be a 3 receiver set.

i wish the team could do some ego stroking and publicly say there IS NO #1, #2, and #3.
there's just 3 guys that are all players and all making plays.
look at the colts. their 3-some did pretty well didnt it?
ash could have 1000 yard season with walker and smith ALSO being productive.

its probably too late now after lelies comments, but someone needs to knock some sense into him.
hell, his contract expires in a year, and THIS year is all i care about anyway.
i want another trophy, and smith, walker, and lelie on the field at the same time would be a great way to help us get that trophy.
just my .02

jake

Maybe he doesn't have any faith in Plummer's ability to read through his progressions.

:bomb:

[Natedogg]

this sucks.

can someone (bpc/chris, are you out there?) please call ashley
and inform him that he'll have BETTER stats this year as a #3 than he
had last year as a #2?

smith, walker, lelie

an UNSTOPPABLE trio, and having smith and walker outside would leave lelie open so much he'd have time to have lunch and take a nap before catching the ball.

man i wish this was going down different.
ashley said in todays paper "we dont run alot of 3 receiver sets."

i got news for you ash.
if you stay, we'd run ALL KINDS of 3 receive sets.
hell, our BASE offense might be a 3 receiver set.

i wish the team could do some ego stroking and publicly say there IS NO #1, #2, and #3.
there's just 3 guys that are all players and all making plays.
look at the colts. their 3-some did pretty well didnt it?
ash could have 1000 yard season with walker and smith ALSO being productive.

its probably too late now after lelies comments, but someone needs to knock some sense into him.
hell, his contract expires in a year, and THIS year is all i care about anyway.
i want another trophy, and smith, walker, and lelie on the field at the same time would be a great way to help us get that trophy.
just my .02

jake


Very well put. Totally agree with you on this. The article in the other thread on this stated that Hermdinger called Lelie to mediate. Lelie said, "I haven't got around to calling him back yet." Wow. Lelie's new very well estimed wide reciever coach/oc calls you (probably to tell of the scemes he has in mind) and Lelie doesnt talk to him and instead pouts to the media.

I hope he stays. Before this he was a class act productive reciever who was only going to get better. I just cannot believe his selfishness and stupidity right now. Get on the gd phone to your OC and talk about his plans before you assume you are going to be religated to a 3rd wide! Hopefully he does stfu, come back and have a great year with more weapons at wide.

Good God.

[Mediator12]

Maybe he doesn't have any faith in Plummer's ability to read through his progressions.

:bomb:


KABOOM!

LOL :rofl:

[bendog]

Progressions? You call 1. Look for Rod five yards past LOS 2. Look for large immobile white guy with a no in the 80s five yards past LOS 3. Run like hell for sideline PROGRESSIONS!!!!?????

[halfcreek]

If Lelie sits out until the 10th game and then becomes a FA and signs with another team, would we get a compensatory pick? about what range? I know that there are a lot of unlikely variables in there, but I am just thinking through the scenarios. TIA

[DBroncos4life]

I'd trade him for Marty Booker.

[RhymesayersDU]

This is why Rod Smith gets the lucrative Blackjack Pizza money and Ash gets nothing.

[12th man]

"Me coming back is definitely out of the question at this point with me being the No. 3 receiver," Lelie said Monday night from Arizona. "There's nothing to mend. There's no solution. ... Let me go somewhere where I can compete."
You know what...there is nothing I hate more than a dumb mother****er. Look at this loser. He's already defeated in his mind. "I'll will be the number 3 receiver."...wtf....you will with that attitude...no matter where you go. I hope we sit on his ass.
ROFL! He wants to go somwhere where he can compete. He had his chance here for four years to compete for the #1 job. He wasn't good enough. He calls himself a good wr and a #1 talant yet righ now he is unwilling to fight for his number two job. He must be afraid of competion. He might as well go to a crappy team with a poor offense. Like SanFran. Im sure no one can compete with him there...for now. He realy let me down in the span of two days. I have learned he is a cry baby and is afraid of competition. We don't need that on this team. Give me someone who loves to compete and is more consistant and more importantly get more than 1 td in the season.

I like Lele cause he was a great deep threat and he did some good stuff for us. A part of me would like to see Lelei stay cause Rod, Javon, and Lelie is freakin awsome. but if Lelie dosn't play with us, Im confident David Terrell is really going to step up. Terrell has all the talant in the world, and now he is with Heimerdinger and that's really going to help him. He just needs to stay healty, and we got a good wr. Basically if Lelei leaves someone is going to step up, Terrell, Adams Devoe, maybe even watts, or the rookies we got. WR is chuck full of talant and we have people that can step up can be pretty wr's at the third spot, so losing Lelei wouldn't hurt that much. But Lelei is flat out acting like a coward and is afraid of competion, I don't know if I want a kind of player like that on my team.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Ashley Leleave...

[Clockwork Orange]

You know what, give that skinny bitch the #1 receiver spot. Make him run all the routes that Rod Smith runs. Make him go into the high traffic areas that Rod Smith does. Let him take all the hits and punishment that Rod Smith does. I'll bet that by week three he'll be begging the coaches to put him back in his role of prancing down the sidelines and ducking out of bounds and the first sight of an oncoming defender.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

You know what, give that skinny b**** the #1 receiver spot. Make him run all the routes that Rod Smith runs. Make him go into the high traffic areas that Rod Smith does. Let him take all the hits and punishment that Rod Smith does. I'll bet that by week three he'll be begging the coaches to put him back in his role of prancing down the sidelines and ducking out of bounds and the first sight of an oncoming defender.

Rod Smith is all that is Bronco...

[Master___Pain]

Ashley Leleave...

I second that nickname.

[Ballhawk]

Isn't Shanny on vacation this week?
I can see these threads going 15 pages

[telluride]

He's dead to me now.

[hades]

They should put him on the practice squad.

[Hulamau]

No rush to get anything done now.

The Broncos need to concentrate on getting their picks signed and into camp. If Lelie wants to sit out camp, then start the fine ticker rolling. Chances are that two or three teams will lose WR's in the preseason grind, and that someone will get desperate and eventually inquire about Ash.

Hopefully, we can get a player out of the deal, down the road somewhere.


That may be how this thing plays out Old Dude. I also think Lelie will calm down after the emotion of the weekend settles a bit and will hopefully see the better part of valor is to come in and take the #2 job from Walker since the #1 is all but sealed anyway.

Rod would have to amputate a foot before he lost the #1.

Lelie didnt seem to have a problem with Walker coming here, they are friends after all, but that he got that whopping long term contract without playing a down here while Javon still had a year on his rookie contract and so does ASh seems to be what blew the fuse.

[Clockwork Orange]

Rod would have to amputate a foot before he lost the #1.

He'd outwork Lelie on one foot.

[BroncoInferno]

Rod would have to amputate a foot before he lost the #1

There may be more of an opportunity there than first appears. Obviously, Rod is coming off a terrific season. But when WRs go, it usually is not a gradual decline. Their skills tend to erode quickly. Jerry Rice saw his production slip drastically after '02, same with Tim Brown. I'm not saying that will happen to Rod, but at age 36, it's not outside the realm of possibility. If he'd quick whining and get in here and work and use that chip on his shoulder to his advantage, he could win the #2 job with an outside chance at #1 if Rod does indeed start to slip some.

[Clockwork Orange]

There may be more of an opportunity there than first appears. Obviously, Rod is coming off a terrific season. But when WRs go, it usually is not a gradual decline. There skills tend to erode quickly. Jerry Rice saw his production slip drastically after '02, same with Tim Brown. I'm not saying that will happen to Rod, but at age 36, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

But Ashley wants it now!

http://www.sekimori.com/misc/crying_baby.jpg

[azbroncfan]

Let his ass sit and it will cost him some serious dough. Trade him for a DT is another option.

[Rohirrim]

Ashley can kiss my rosy red. Thanks for the TD you little biatch. Don't let the door hit ya... :welcome:

[Popps]

What a complete and utter load of bull****.

Yea, it's funny how when Ashley pouts like a little bitch, there's a rational explanation, but when Walker REPORTED TO HIS TEAM TO PLAY WITHOUT A NEW CONTRACT, he "bailed" on Green Bay.

Ashley can ride the ****-you train right out of Denver. I hope he finds a cushy turf team that won't ask him to do too much. Maybe the receivers for his next team will lay down and let him have the #1 job.

How about the L.A. Avengers? Dome team.... turf team... and Lelie would actually have a fighting chance of beating out their #1 receiver.

[BroncoBen]

Lelie didnt seem to have a problem with Walker coming here, they are friends after all, but that he got that whopping long term contract without playing a down here while Javon still had a year on his rookie contract and so does ASh seems to be what blew the fuse.

Good insight, I bet if the Broncos started talking about extending his contract and letting him ‘compete’ for the #1 or #2 WR position he would stop all of his b#tching.

The more I think about it… the more I think his posturing has more to do with getting a new contract than about being the #1 WR.

[Clockwork Orange]

Good insight, I bet if the Broncos started talking about extending his contract and letting him ‘compete’ for the #1 or #2 WR position he would stop all of his b#tching.

The more I think about it… the more I think his posturing has more to do with getting a new contract than about being the #1 WR.

Shanahan said on draft day that Lelie would be given a chance to compete in training camp. Lelie has shown that he has no interest in competing for a job and actually earning it, he wants it handed to him simply because he wants it.

[Moon§hiner]

If he and Walker are working out together in AZ, sounds like Walker got in his head to me....can't have a head case for a #1 wide receiver...(refer to Eddie Kennison for proof)

[Hotrod]

He's dead to me now.

That seriously is how I see the whole thing. Assly can sit on the bench week after week then take his happy *** out of town.

[Hulamau]

There may be more of an opportunity there than first appears. Obviously, Rod is coming off a terrific season. But when WRs go, it usually is not a gradual decline. Their skills tend to erode quickly. Jerry Rice saw his production slip drastically after '02, same with Tim Brown. I'm not saying that will happen to Rod, but at age 36, it's not outside the realm of possibility. If he'd quick whining and get in here and work and use that chip on his shoulder to his advantage, he could win the #2 job with an outside chance at #1.


Good point BroncoInferno,
I'm hoping that this will become clear to him after he talks to Heimerdinger which he implied he would and just hadn't had a chance to return his call before Bill Williamson got hold of him yesterday.

There is no advantage to holding out and I think the threat is only becuase he saw how well it worked for his buddy Walker and he really does want to play somewhere this year so he is trying to force the issue while he can hook up with a new team, not come back to us.

We should at least talk to him about it and if there is no way to bridge teh gap cut him lose to a different team while we can get some value out of it. He may well be serious that he'll sit out the whole year and start over next year with a one year deal with someone and then we get nothing for the whole excercise.

Some team will welcome him with open arms just like so many here are beside themselves in glee now that Walker bulldozed his way out of GB and hit the jackpot here.

Heimerdinger at least can add the crediblity of a new offensive game plan to entice him back. The biggest thing though is that he can beat Walker out on the playing field this year. What he is concerned about is doing just that and then be used as a placeholder anyway, assuming they will drop him to #3 arbitrarily as soon as Walker is fully healed due to the $10-million clams laid on him.

Anyway, its a tough situation for him either way but he is only making it worse by holdign out ... unless of course he suddenly gets traded to Philadelpia or Miami where they pass the ball a lot and becomes a superstar which is the dice he is rolling.

While I disgree with his tactics, what he is doing doesn't comapre to the hostage for money deals that Walker and TO manufactured

[Lynchfan]

Who needs him. He is to inconsistent,you can't rely on him from one game to the next. Better luck somewhere else.:)

[Garcia Bronco]

Lily has the skills...no doubt...but he doesn't have the fortitude.

[Crushaholic]

Does he REALLY think that Shanahan will cave in to his temper tantrum?:rofl:

Somebody find his Wonderlic score. He certainly appears to be a dumb mofo...LOL

[Traveler]

An aside to this Ashley situation. I wonder what guys like Devoe, Adams feel about this? They are asked to do the same things as Lelie and also play on ST's. It's gotta cross their minds as selfish.

I would think Ashley's bitching when they are asked to do more than he does wouldn't warrant any sympathy if and when he return to the team. C'mon Ash! Just buck up and compete for what you want!

[12th man]

An aside to this Ashley situation. I wonder what guys like Devoe, Adams feel about this? They are asked to do the same things as Lelie and also play on ST's. It's gotta cross their minds as selfish.
I would think Ashley's b****ing when they are asked to do more than he does wouldn't warrant any sympathy if and when he return to the team. C'mon Ash! Just buck up and compete for what you want!

They're probably thinkin an opputunity to move up the depth chart. They probably think he is selfish. thank God for Rod, (ha, that rhymes.) to teach these young guys on how to work hard and don't complain and always play like your job is on the line. to bad it didn't rub off on ash that good.

[Hulamau]

Shanahan said on draft day that Lelie would be given a chance to compete in training camp. Lelie has shown that he has no interest in competing for a job and actually earning it, he wants it handed to him simply because he wants it.

Normally you've got some good takes Clockwork but many of your posts in this thread are beginning to sound like some old lady whose man dumped them at the alter! Where does all this vitriolic venom come from? We are only discussing a WR here not the crown jewels.

Your accusations that Lelie is scared of competition are luducrous he has never shied away from any competition before, in college, here or going against the top DBs in the NFL each week, nor has he been a deadbeat demanding everything be given to him like you imply. Ash worked just as hard as anyone else on the team without a peep the last 4 years, inspite of all the spiteful indignation coming out of you and a few others now, as if he's done something personal to you.

What is Shanahan going to say on draft day, "that Ash is under contract with us and we fully expect him to come in here and ride the pine this year like a good trooper in case we need him?"

Shanahan knows precisely what he is doing playing both the good cop pulbic role and the hard bargaining tough guy behind the scenes which he is very skillful at, and Ash by over-reacting much like you are, is playing right into his hands and making his own situation worse and contributing to a more divisive atmosphere (see this thread as an example) rather than contributing to any honest clarity about the situation.

Calm down man we are just talking about a WR here.The Broncos will fully survive whether he is here or not.

You can fully disgree or be fed up with a guy's actions and still not go overboard on the hating.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He sh*t his bed in Denver now, time to do the laundry and get rid of the smell.

[DBroncos4life]

I have to wonder why he thinks his role on the team will change with Walker in the line up. I understand that Jake doesn't go through his reads like he should but having another star WR for the shorter routes is only going to make his big play ability better. If anything this affects Rods numbers.

[Clockwork Orange]

Normally you've got some good takes Clockwork but many of your posts in this thread are beginning to sound like some old lady whose man dumped them at the alter! Where does all this vitriolic venom come from? We are only discussing a WR here not the crown jewels.

Your accusations that Lelie is scared of competition are luducrous he has never shied away from any competition before, in college, here or going against the top DBs in the NFL each week, nor has he been a deadbeat demanding everything be given to him like you imply. Ash worked just as hard as anyone else on the team without a peep the last 4 years, inspite of all the spiteful indignation coming out of you and a few others now, as if he's done something personal to you.

What is Shanahan going to say on draft day, "that Ash is under contract with us and we fully expect him to come in here and ride the pine this year like a good trooper in case we need him?"

Shanahan knows precisely what he is doing playing both the good cop pulbic role and the hard bargaining tough guy behind the scenes which he is very skillful at, and Ash by over-reacting much like you are, is playing right into his hands and making his own situation worse and contributing to a more divisive atmosphere (see this thread as an example) rather than contributing to any honest clarity about the situation.

Calm down man we are just talking about a WR here.The Broncos will fully survive whether he is here or not.

You can fully disgree or be fed up with a guy's actions and still not go overboard on the hating.

If this was coming from someone with a shred of objectivity to them, it might mean something to me. Unfortunately, your hero worship of Ashley Lelie and refusal to assign any responsibility or accountability to him for, well, anything pretty much saps any credibility you might have had on the subject with me. You've been blaming everyone from Jake Plummer to Gary Kubiak to Mike Shanahan to Rod Smith for everything wrong with Lelie since you first showed up here. To the surprise of no one, since this whole thing started you've done nothing but defend Lelie, his whining and his sense of entitlement. All while taking shots at Shanahan, Javon Walker, Rod Smith and anyone else you could think of to try and deflect criticism off of Lelie.

I have no sympathy for him whatsoever and I'll continue to rip him so long as he continues to behave like a spoiled child who's gonna take his ball and go home because he isn't being handed what he wants without earning it. If it bothers you that much, feel free to put me on ignore.

[bendog]

The only thing that bugs me is that Shanny has shown over and over that he just doesn't treat players like crap when he's got another option. Droughens, for example. Lelie forced the situation by saying he was leaving via FA. Now, the more he bitches, the harder it is for Shanny to get anything for him. Shanny's not gonna just cut him and eat the cap. Now, Den may have to hold onto him until some team has WRs go down in July.

[ShutDownPoster]

Firstly, as a bronco fan i love Ash. But there is a limited market out there for him, proven by the lack of interest. Ideally, if it was '99 in the heyday of the greatest show on turf...imagine Lelie catching bombs in stride from Warner. I dont think there's an offense out there that could make him their numero uno right now.

[DBroncos4life]

Firstly, as a bronco fan i love Ash. But there is a limited market out there for him, proven by the lack of interest. Ideally, if it was '99 in the heyday of the greatest show on turf...imagine Lelie catching bombs in stride from Warner. I dont think there's an offense out there that could make him their numero uno right now.
Thats why I think the Phins would be a good fit for him. Pepper could use a guy like him

[TheDave]

I guess we can all be thankful that Jake didn't respond the same way to his new competition...

[Hulamau]

If this was coming from someone with a shred of objectivity to them, it might mean something to me. Unfortunately, your hero worship of Ashley Lelie and refusal to assign any responsibility or accountability to him for, well, anything pretty much saps any credibility you might have had on the subject with me. You've been blaming everyone from Jake Plummer to Gary Kubiak to Mike Shanahan to Rod Smith for everything wrong with Lelie since you first showed up here. To the surprise of no one, since this whole thing started you've done nothing but defend Lelie, his whining and his sense of entitlement. All while taking shots at Shanahan, Javon Walker, Rod Smith and anyone else you could think of to try and deflect criticism off of Lelie.

I have no sympathy for him whatsoever and I'll continue to rip him so long as he continues to behave like a spoiled child who's gonna take his ball and go home because he isn't being handed what he wants without earning it. If it bothers you that much, feel free to put me on ignore.

Clockwork you are perfectly welcome to piss and moan about him all you want
He certainly stuck his foot in his mouth by his reactions I agree.

No doubt, I've certainly defended the guy's talent here all along, particularly in the face of what I saw is some superficial analysis by a few and make no apologies for it.

But not once have I condoned him holding out or his 'sense of entitlement', nor ever 'blamed' anyone else as you claim, but the circumstances here with this system built around Plummer for his drop off in production. Thats not Plummer's or anyone elses 'fault' its just the way it is and Shanhan made the best of it.

Lelie pretty much said the same thing he isnt blaming anyone nor is he mad he just feels it no longer a workable deal for him and he may be right, but he still should honor his contract and slug it out one more year.

What is Lelies fault is the way he is responding to the situation and it would be easy go with the flow to jump on the 'burn him to the ground' bandwagon here.

And while I also understand why he is upset, we all agree he is going about it all wrong. Far from giving the guy a pass, I wrote him a letter Saturday night before this news broke telliing him he was making a big mistake holding out (not that it would do any good).

But what I'm calling you on now CO is not you being pissed at him, (who isn't) but trying to rewrite his time here as nothing but a whiner and lazy guy demanding everything be given to him when the facts just dont support you at all.

The difference here is in criticizing the guy for this screw up without fabricating a new Bronco history for him to make it more palatable.

I fully realize how ticked off everyone is, no more than I am at him, but was he really the no good lazy SOB you paint him out to be now, or is that a little extra mustard on top of the situation? Answer that question honestly and maybe any further critique will be a little more on point.

It doesn't matter he's gone anyway. I was a bit surprised though reading some of your posts earlier in this thread at the venom coming from you who tends to have more balanced takes on things.

Nevertheless, it's a free country so have at him all you like.

[Mediator12]

The only thing that bugs me is that Shanny has shown over and over that he just doesn't treat players like crap when he's got another option. Droughens, for example. Lelie forced the situation by saying he was leaving via FA. Now, the more he b****es, the harder it is for Shanny to get anything for him. Shanny's not gonna just cut him and eat the cap. Now, Den may have to hold onto him until some team has WRs go down in July.

Good point bendog.

Here is what I think is going on:

1. Droughns proved to himself he could be a starting RB in this league after five years of role playing. He got his shot and excelled even though he wore down as the season progressed. He also knew he may never get to be the guy in Denver again. So he asked to be traded. This is not remotely the investment Denver has in Lelie and Denver got some Excellent value for him! Right now there is not value for Lelie on the market.

2. Shanahan knows Lelie has All-World potential and that Rod is leaving in two years tops. Lelie has received a ton of investment from this team and Shanahan wants it back if and when he leaves. He knows Lelie better than Lelie knows himself and wants him to Succeed here rather than someplace else. He knows Lelie has to turn the corner mentally and he wants to be there when that happens.

3. In order to do that, he is making Lelie compete for his Job for the first time in his career. No more coddling, encouraging, and waiting. He is doing an intervention so to speak and Lelie is handling it with the grace of a two year who just had his toy taken away. As I have said repeatedly, I hope someone sits Lelie down and explains the facts of the NFL to him.

4. That guy should be Heimerdinger who is not emotionally invested in this and can legitimately talk objectively with him and explain how things have changed and how Lelie can take advantage of this change. I still hold out Hope that Lelie will get it ;D

[ludo21]

tsk tsk

Come on Lelie, stop being stupid!!

He is soo confident he can be a #1, that he wont even work for it. :nutkick:

:drown: sorry to see you go bud, but your constant crying is getting annyoing, FAST!!


Shanny ALWAYS lets the best player win, so him thinking he cant win a spot is rediculous. What a pansy, there are no excuses for him anymore.

[Clockwork Orange]

Nevertheless, it's a free country so have at him all you like.

I will, thanks.

As soon as he starts acting like a professional, I'll regard him as one.

[Hulamau]

Good point bendog.

Here is what I think is going on:

1. Droughns proved to himself he could be a starting RB in this league after five years of role playing. He got his shot and excelled even though he wore down as the season progressed. He also knew he may never get to be the guy in Denver again. So he asked to be traded. This is not remotely the investment Denver has in Lelie and Denver got some Excellent value for him! Right now there is not value for Lelie on the market.

2. Shanahan knows Lelie has All-World potential and that Rod is leaving in two years tops. Lelie has received a ton of investment from this team and Shanahan wants it back if and when he leaves. He knows Lelie better than Lelie knows himself and wants him to Succeed here rather than someplace else. He knows Lelie has to turn the corner mentally and he wants to be there when that happens.

3. In order to do that, he is making Lelie compete for his Job for the first time in his career. No more coddling, encouraging, and waiting. He is doing an intervention so to speak and Lelie is handling it with the grace of a two year who just had his toy taken away. As I have said repeatedly, I hope someone sits Lelie down and explains the facts of the NFL to him.

4. That guy should be Heimerdinger who is not emotionally invested in this and can legitimately talk objectively with him and explain how things have changed and how Lelie can take advantage of this change. I still hold out Hope that Lelie will get it ;D

Hi Mediator12,

I think you hit the nail on the head on points 1, 2 and 4, though the intervention bit in number 3 is a bit of a stretch :-).


But Heimerdinger is the key to possibly making this work out. Has anyone known of a first round WR who wasn't a bit of a primadonna by nature?

All the accolades and pursuit by every team after college will do that to a guy.

Rod Smith is a perfect example of a guy who had to work from the bottom up which brings a very different and more realistic view point to life.

Maybe this experience will, as you suggest, reorient Lelie's perspective to a more realistic one.

Even if he is following in Walker's and TO's unfortunate example, the one fatal flaw in his tactic is they waited until they had at least one Pro bowl year under their belt.

On the other hand, Lelie isnt asking for more money but for what he sees as his only chance to have one of those break out years.

MAybe there is still time yet for Heimerdineger to shed some light for him that hes making the wrong moves to accomplish his long term goal..

[labronco]

Rod is really getting too old for the punishment he takes in the middle. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but I felt like his play declined a bit last year, although he made the probowl.

I hope Javon can take over Rod's role. More I think about it, I am quite excited about healthy Javon not only making tough catches in the middle but have the young legs to stretch the field.

I appreciate Lelie's acrobatic catches, but I just cannot see him becoming anything more than what he has shown over the years here. What we really miss is a McCaffrey-type of player, a tough SOB, who knows his role and gives his all to fulfill it. In many ways, Rod and McCaffrey are similar, and I can see Rod becoming #2/#1b type player complimenting Javon Walker.

[Rascal]

I appreciate Lelie's acrobatic catches, but I just cannot see him becoming anything more than what he has shown over the years here. What we really miss is a McCaffrey-type of player, a tough SOB, who knows his role and gives his all to fulfill it. In many ways, Rod and McCaffrey are similar, and I can see Rod becoming #2/#1b type player complimenting Javon Walker.

See Marshall next year to take that role. I can't wait for the possibilities with this guy personally.

Walker, Marshall, and Terrell with Scheffler and Duke with Cutler able to use the entire playbook. Get a RB and wow...the future looks bright.

[Hulamau]

See Marshall next year to take that role. I can't wait for the possibilities with this guy personally.

Walker, Marshall, and Terrell with Scheffler and Duke with Cutler able to use the entire playbook. Get a RB and wow...the future looks bright.


That could be an great line up if Terrell is all the way back and Marshall can get enough separation, though his height makes up somewhat for his lack of speed.

If you haven't seen the Vandy - Tenn game go watch Cutler thread the ball into the goaline from the redzone! It looks like an Elway Rocket right on target and he will make all these guys look ALL World.

Damn shame we didnt draft Lelie this year. He was born 4 years too early :-)!

[Rascal]

That could be an great line up if Terrell is all the way back and Marshall can get enough separation, though his height makes up somewhat for his lack of speed.

If you haven't seen the Vandy - Tenn game go watch Cutler thread the ball into the goaline from the redzone! It looks like an Elway Rocket right on target and he will make all these guys look ALL World.

Damn shame we didnt draft Lelie this year. He was born 4 years too early :-)!

I've watched that game and the ole miss game twice already.

If Terrell can get 700 yards in freaking chicago I honestly don't see why he can't do just as good if not better here if his head is screwed on straight. We'll see how he develops during training camp and preseason. If he is capable of being a #3 this year or #2 in a pinch and Walker's knee is okay I say trade lelie and watts for the best DE/DT we can get.

Marshall is going to create a lot of matchup problems for DC's with him lining up as either WR, TE, or h-back.

[Rock Chalk]

See Marshall next year to take that role. I can't wait for the possibilities with this guy personally.

Walker, Marshall, and Terrell with Scheffler and Duke with Cutler able to use the entire playbook. Get a RB and wow...the future looks bright.
Stood at the hype machine a little too long did we?

[Hulamau]

Rod is really getting too old for the punishment he takes in the middle. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but I felt like his play declined a bit last year, although he made the probowl.

I hope Javon can take over Rod's role. More I think about it, I am quite excited about healthy Javon not only making tough catches in the middle but have the young legs to stretch the field.

I appreciate Lelie's acrobatic catches, but I just cannot see him becoming anything more than what he has shown over the years here. What we really miss is a McCaffrey-type of player, a tough SOB, who knows his role and gives his all to fulfill it. In many ways, Rod and McCaffrey are similar, and I can see Rod becoming #2/#1b type player complimenting Javon Walker.


That is the irony about Ash's piss poor timing on holdimg out too. With Rod begiining to slip a little this is the first year with a new offensive coordinator with a more wide open attack (presummably), and with Walker's knee still tender and being a rookie in our system that is actaully Ash's best shot at winning the #1 or at least a very active #2 role.

Assuming he hasn't burned the bridge to shanny too thoroughly now. And if they could show the Cutler-Lelie, Cutler-Walker connection in camp it would inspire Lelie and all those guys to want to stick around for sure.

[Odysseus]

See Marshall next year to take that role. I can't wait for the possibilities with this guy personally.

Walker, Marshall, and Terrell with Scheffler and Duke with Cutler able to use the entire playbook. Get a RB and wow...the future looks bright.

We've got some BIG recievers on the roster right now. An accurate cannon who can spread it around? That is going to be fun. Lelie has a right to being scared.

[Odysseus]

That is the irony about Ash's piss poor timing on holdimg out too. With Rod begiining to slip a little this is the first year with a new offensive coordinator with a more wide open attack (presummably), and with Walker's knee still tender and being a rookie in our system that is actaully Ash's best shot at winning the #1 or at least a very active #2 role.

Assuming he hasn't burned the bridge to shanny too thoroughly now. And if they could show the Cutler-Lelie, Cutler-Walker connection in camp it would inspire Lelie and all those guys to want to stick around for sure.

That is why I say he's a chicken ****. The ONE time we need him after 4 years of waiting for him to grow up and he cuts US loose? Tell me why people should not be pissed at him? His timing could not be worst. He needs to fly into Denver and talk to Dinger. A phone call? Come on. He shows up in the airport and this board will light up like a Christmas tree. Stop hiding.

[Rascal]

Stood at the hype machine a little too long did we?

No just drank 5 gallons of kool-aid though.

HOnestly though I liked Marshall before the draft.

[2KBack]

This is sounding more and more like a communication conflict. Possibly one that could have been avoided if Ash was working out in Denver. Ash is doing a lot of assuming from a distance. He's assuming he's the #3. I think if he has an acual conversation with someone (Dinger), things could turn around quick. Assuming he stops digging his hole any deeper.

As for Rod, I think he would play #2 or even #3 if asked. He understands the business, I believe he even said he would keep playing until he dropped off the depth chart. If Ash showed that dedication YEAR ROUND, that torch could be passed fairly soon. He needs to take the number 1 job, outright defeat the incumbant.

[Hulamau]

That is why I say he's a chicken ****. The ONE time we need him after 4 years of waiting for him to grow up and he cuts US loose? Tell me why people should not be pissed at him? His timing could not be worst. He needs to fly into Denver and talk to Dinger. A phone call? Come on. He shows up in the airport and this board will light up like a Christmas tree. Stop hiding.

QT, no problem with being pissed off and I never said anyone shouldn't be pissed. As someone who has defended him as a football player from day one I'm particularly ticked off at this dumb decision that seems so out of character for the guy.

But that doesn't mean he was a terrible teammate and lousy no good scum of a human being the last four years as some here are implying in their pissed off outrage.

I can understand the hard feelings, but not the vindictive bitterness of a few posts here ( not yours).

[Clockwork Orange]

But that doesn't mean he was a terrible teammate and lousy no good scum of a human being the last four years as some here are implying in their pissed off outrage.

I can understand the hard feelings, but not the vindictive bitterness of a few posts here ( not yours).

You shouldn't be talking about anyone being bitter or vindictive when you've been taking unjustified shots at Shanahan, Walker, Smith & Plummer to try and take heat off of Lelie ever since this situation came to light.

But then you've been blaming everyone else for Lelie's deficiencies for years. Why would anyone expect you to change now?

[Hulamau]

This is sounding more and more like a communication conflict. Possibly one that could have been avoided if Ash was working out in Denver. Ash is doing a lot of assuming from a distance. He's assuming he's the #3. I think if he has an acual conversation with someone (Dinger), things could turn around quick. Assuming he stops digging his hole any deeper.

As for Rod, I think he would play #2 or even #3 if asked. He understands the business, I believe he even said he would keep playing until he dropped off the depth chart. If Ash showed that dedication YEAR ROUND, that torch could be passed fairly soon. He needs to take the number 1 job, outright defeat the incumbant.


Very true all around., I was encourged to hear Heimerdinger is reaching out. His ego is likely bruised and he no doubt feels disppointed and isolated out there and his best friend just got HIS job and a huge pay day while they are working out together every day! That cant be too easy made al lte hwrose by shuttign himself off from the team.

Its kind of like the movie Envy with Jack Black and Ben Stiller, before Ben Stiller realized he was going no where with his anger.

I also think Shanny could have prevented a lot of this with a good sit down before all the TO and Walker pursuit became so public and perhaps headed this off this empass.

Nevertheless, whatever is, is and at least now lines of communication are opening up. No doubt he has talked to Heimerdinger by now so well see what happens from here.

[listopencil]

And if they could show the Cutler-Lelie, Cutler-Walker connection in camp it would inspire Lelie and all those guys to want to stick around for sure.


If Lelie or "all those guys" need inspiration to stick around then **** 'em all. Let them sit or let them go. I doubt it, though. I think Lelie is a crying bitch and "all those guys" are going to be just fine inspiration-wise.

[DBroncos4life]

I'd like to have Lelie around if KC is getting Law. I hope Terrell steps up but its nice to have Lelie to fall back on should Terrell end up as this years feel good story.

[Clockwork Orange]

I also think Shanny could have prevented a lot of this with a good sit down before all the TO and Walker pursuit became so public and perhaps headed this off this empass.

This is what I don't get. Why does Shanahan have to keep quiet about which players he's pursuing? So that Lelie's feelings don't get hurt? Please.

Mike Shanahan's obligation is to get the best players he can and put them in the best position to win on the field. It's not his job to coddle players whose egos can't bear the thought of competition at their position. Lelie complained about the Broncos talking to Terrell Owens. Now he's ready to shut it down because the Broncos acquired Javon Walker. Sorry, but the problem there lies with Lelie and his obviously fragile psyche, not Shanahan.

Do you see Rod Smith having a hissy fit because the Broncos spoke to Owens? Is he melting down over the Walker trade? Of course not. He's secure in the idea that he's going to come to camp and earn his spot as he does every single year. He's also a professional who puts the team ahead of his own personal agenda.

If Lelie would rather go to a cellar dwelling team where he can be the #1 receiver and rack up his own personal stats, then he's not the type of player that the Broncos want anyway. I know, you'll shoot back with the Walker/Green Bay situation. The situations are very different.

Walker has performed at a Pro Bowl level, Lelie hasn't. That automatically gives Walker some more leverage in any negotiations. Walker also didn't hold out. He was rebuffed in his advances for a new contract, got thrown under the bus by his QB and yet still showed up to work. Then he realized every players worst nightmare and suffered a serious injury. That was the last straw and he decided he wanted out no matter what. Unlike Lelie, Walker had trade vlaue because he had performed at an elite level in the past. Thus the Packers were able to trade him and get back value that they were satisfied with.

The Broncos have invested plenty in Lelie. A 1st round pick, millions of dollars and a lot of their time. It's not unreasonable for them to expect to get what they consider to be worthwhile compensation for him. They're not obligated to dump Lelie for a second day draft pick just because Lelie doesn't want to be here.

There isn't going to be any quick or easy resolution to this situation, especially with Shanahan and Sundquist coming out and saying that they expect him to be in training camp and the draft already in the rearview mirror. It's time for Lelie to make the smart decision, report to training camp, keep his mouth shut and finish out his contract. After this season he'll be free to go anywhere he likes. He's not helping his cause by coming off as a malcontent. Players can get away with that if they've produced on the field at a Terrell Owens or Javon Walker level. Lelie never has.

I'm sticking to my stance that Lelie either plays for the Broncos this year or he doesn't play. I hope the Broncos front does the same.

[Popps]

If Lelie or "all those guys" need inspiration to stick around then **** 'em all. Let them sit or let them go. I doubt it, though. I think Lelie is a crying b**** and "all those guys" are going to be just fine inspiration-wise.

Exactly. Lelie is the only one talking about not sticking around because he can't beat out 37 year old Rod Smith.

[broncohaven]

Hula,
You keep calling people hypocrites for embracing Walker and bashing Lelie, but the situations are completely different. Lelie is asking to be given the #1 position on the team. Don't say "He's asking to compete", because he's been competing for the #1 job with every snap of the football. Just like every other receiver in Denver.

Walker's issue was over his contract after he had earned the #1 spot and proven to be one of the best in the league at his position. Asking to be paid is a different animal from what Ashley is doing. One is a necessary evil of the game, the other points to character and a lack of determination.

[Hulamau]

This is what I don't get. Why does Shanahan have to keep quiet about which players he's pursuing? So that Lelie's feelings don't get hurt? Please.

Mike Shanahan's obligation is to get the best players he can and put them in the best position to win on the field. It's not his job to coddle players whose egos can't bear the thought of competition at their position. Lelie complained about the Broncos talking to Terrell Owens. Now he's ready to shut it down because the Broncos acquired Javon Walker. Sorry, but the problem there lies with Lelie and his obviously fragile psyche, not Shanahan.

Do you see Rod Smith having a hissy fit because the Broncos spoke to Owens? Is he melting down over the Walker trade? Of course not. He's secure in the idea that he's going to come to camp and earn his spot as he does every single year. He's also a professional who puts the team ahead of his own personal agenda.

If Lelie would rather go to a cellar dwelling team where he can be the #1 receiver and rack up his own personal stats, then he's not the type of player that the Broncos want anyway. I know, you'll shoot back with the Walker/Green Bay situation. The situations are very different.

Walker has performed at a Pro Bowl level, Lelie hasn't. That automatically gives Walker some more leverage in any negotiations. Walker also didn't hold out. He was rebuffed in his advances for a new contract, got thrown under the bus by his QB and yet still showed up to work. Then he realized every players worst nightmare and suffered a serious injury. That was the last straw and he decided he wanted out no matter what. Unlike Lelie, Walker had trade vlaue because he had performed at an elite level in the past. Thus the Packers were able to trade him and get back value that they were satisfied with.

The Broncos have invested plenty in Lelie. A 1st round pick, millions of dollars and a lot of their time. It's not unreasonable for them to expect to get what they consider to be worthwhile compensation for him. They're not obligated to dump Lelie for a second day draft pick just because Lelie doesn't want to be here.

There isn't going to be any quick or easy resolution to this situation, especially with Shanahan and Sundquist coming out and saying that they expect him to be in training camp and the draft already in the rearview mirror. It's time for Lelie to make the smart decision, report to training camp, keep his mouth shut and finish out his contract. After this season he'll be free to go anywhere he likes. He's not helping his cause by coming off as a malcontent. Players can get away with that if they've produced on the field at a Terrell Owens or Javon Walker level. Lelie never has.

I'm sticking to my stance that Lelie either plays for the Broncos this year or he doesn't play. I hope the Broncos front does the same.

I agree with a lot of what you say here CO, particularly the last three paragraphs.

Yet with the opening question about Shanahan possible motive to talk to Lelie about where he stands with these changes and the whole issue before it came to this head, wasnt intended to suggest Shanny get 'permission' from Lelie before talking to TO or Walker.

Its a simple common-sense observation as a smart way to keep healthy any relationship in life that you are interesting in manitaining and securing one's investment in, or getting someone's cooperation and participation in. To help insure this, it usually helps to include them at least somewhere along the way, before everyone else knows about it and let them know how they fit in rather than letting them find out about it on SportsCenter or when a friend calls and asks whats up! Particularly when it directly effects the person in questions job and livelihood.

Have you ever had employees under you? Its one of the first rules of a successful operation to fully explain any changing roles and expectations when new people come in that directly effect those that are already there.

Maybe Shanny already did this with Lelie and we don't know about it, but from Lelie's reaction and what Shanny said in his press conference it doesn't seem like they did sit down over how Shanny envisioned Lelie's role to be with TO/Walker here.

And if he didn't really hash this out with him, it only leaves a void in Lelies mind to dump any fears and uncertanites and endless speculation into with everyone on SportsCenter calling him a bust which can quicky take on a life of its own, as it seems to have here.

Thats all I'm saying. Mike obviously isn't required to do it and its not just to 'hold Lelies hand', but to have possibly the best shot at avoiding the kind of blow up we see now for everyone's benefit.

Also, I know what Walker's position was and dont entirely disagree with him either, but he still should have played through his rookie contract to begin with, JUST like Lelie. Both were first round draft choices with very decent first contracts not like a 4th rounder who turned out to be all world that would have more to argue with.

And if you look at the two situarions objectively, they are very similar only that Walker had the major leverage of the one Pro Bowl year to bank on and that's is where Lelie and his agent miscalculated in thinking this could work without such a high profile season under his belt, even though 2004 was an very good season by #2WR standards.

However, any objective person that thinks Walker would have been anything other than a #2 WR for us in 2004 when Rod was still at the top of his game is missing the bus. If you put Walker in Lelie's shoes here, he would never have gotten his pro bowl season ( just look at his two mediocre years as GBs #2 befoire he got teh default promotion to #1 in 2004 as an example).

As such, Lelie really hans't had the chance to make such a high profile break out yet, and that is what he is holding out for. Rightly or wrongly that is why he perceives this is now a true dead end here for him.

Because his opportunities dropped considerabley last year even though he played his best ball as both Shanny, Kubiak and Plummer ALL said and apparetnly no one has been able to sit down and convince him it will get much better any time soon.

Its his one major mistake in the way he's handled this whole thing after being such a trooper and team player all along, and maybe its not too late for him to learn. Its not like he has pissed people off all along and 27 year olds are often prone to making similar mistakes in judgement.

Nevertheless, what Walker did this year was a true ultimatum regardless of how 'justified' he felt it was. He made the ultimate 'trade me or retire' hold out demand, in which GB would lose everything as he saw no way he could play for GB any longer, when in fact he could easily have done so. Maybe even at a pro bowl level again with Favre back for one more year and then written his ticket on the open market, precisely as we are all counciling Lelie and as you will see many of the GB fans suggested to Walker before the trade.

Therefore, ethically Walker is certainly not in any better position than Lelie is based on their similar demand, only that WAlker's worked out for him and Lelies didnt (so far).

The other points you made I agree with all the way. And I don't condone in any way Lelie holding out, its a big mistake for him and for us.

Once again that decision is soley on his shoulders and no one esle is to blame for it, but just as Walker's situation didn't happen in a vaccum neither did Lelies arise out of thin air. Its a true conundrum for him as well.

And saying that our offense with Plummer at the helm with last years more toned down game plan didnt include Lelie much isnt 'blaming' Plummer or Shanny its simply a statement of fact. Lelie has to live with that and make the best of it, until a better situation (for him) appears.

The way Shanny called it was best for the team with its present make up. Lelie can find greener pastures either when he wins the top job here when Rod drops off, or something like a new more open offense comes around maybe in Heimerdinger opening Jake back up like in 2004 or with Cutler as QB, in which both the #1 and #2 WR get a lot more balls.

As you suggested, either way his best shot is to suck it up and play as we've all said and make the best of a tough deal. That is where he needs to get some better counciling than he is getting now and hopefully Heimerdinger can provide it.

Good points over all though CO. Cheers!

[Popps]

Yikes.

[labronco]

i just wished lelie had kept quiet through training camp. i don't know any WR that breaks out after a major acl surgery. rod's skill's obviously declining. terrell/watts/devoe all have much to prove. if i were lelie, i would be really excited about my chances of proving his worth this year on THIS team. he is seriously mistaken if he thinks that somebody will simply hand over a #1 job with the way he has performed so far. the lack of interest in him during the draft clearly shows that.

[Rascal]

Wow...that has to be one of the longest posts I've ever seen. And way to long for me to read with my ADD.

[2KBack]

Wow...that has to be one of the longest posts I've ever seen. And way to long for me to read with my ADD.

haha, me too, I made it about 2 paragraphs in before I just skipped to the next post.

[Ballhawk]

Cliff notes please

[BroncoBuff]

I guess we can all be thankful that Jake didn't respond the same way to his new competition...
That is an excellent observation. Dare we call Jake ... classy?

[Hulamau]

Hula,
You keep calling people hypocrites for embracing Walker and bashing Lelie, but the situations are completely different. Lelie is asking to be given the #1 position on the team. Don't say "He's asking to compete", because he's been competing for the #1 job with every snap of the football. Just like every other receiver in Denver.

Walker's issue was over his contract after he had earned the #1 spot and proven to be one of the best in the league at his position. Asking to be paid is a different animal from what Ashley is doing. One is a necessary evil of the game, the other points to character and a lack of determination.


Hi Broncohaven,

I dont think I've read in any thing Lelie has said close to a demand to be 'GIVEN' the #1 job as a condition of him returning! If you can show me that I'll gladly retrack what I've said. I know in the heat of outrage its easy to read it that way, but if you reread carefully a few times what he says I cant find anything like a demand or even an assurance they he will be 'given' the top spot.

What he said is he only wanted a level playing field to compete for the top spot, and show he is worthy of the job, which his also a very different thing.

Now he has over-reacted to this weeekends events and sees no hope and only wants out, and maybe a heart to heart with Heimerdinger might help him see the forest through the trees.

But my reference to hypocrisy had NOTHING to do with the relative merits of one case over the other. It's simply question of honoring your rookie contract PERIOD! Not damning one guy who wants to leave you (a loss for us) and celebrating the other (a gain for us) for doing whatever they did to break free from their orignal contractual obligation.

If the 'ethics' of a deal is based on how great your last season two years ago was, then all contracts are meaningless in any event and the NFL might well descend into free for all.

That was the danger with Portis getting out of here. It all worked out for the best, and this one may too, for both teams, but its a bad precident. If Walker had been a 4th round pick for $800,000 and gone to the Pro Bowl a smart team would renegotiate a long term deal to up his pay while locking him in.

Walker was very average no better than Lelie in their respective first two years when both were #2WR and only had one decent year at the#1 before demanding a big increase. He came into camp only after Bret humiliated him and got injured right off and then vowed he was going to leave no matter what.

I dont blame Walker for wanting out, just like I don't blame Ash for wanting a better opportunity than last year provided him here, but somewhere along the line people have to start honoring AND enforcing these first round contracts or towns like New Orleans and Detroit wont be able to keep any decent players more than a couple years.

The hypocrisy I'm referring to is when someone bitterly slams Lelie while at the same time praising Walker and what he did. It doesn't mean what either has done is 'evil', just that claiming one is OK and the other a travesty is kind of like saying its OK to steal as long as it works out for you and you don't get caught.

Anyway, I have no problem with Walker here and hope he turns out to be the next Jerry Rice for 15 years. But I can appreciate the irony in shelling out a $40 million dollar contract to a guy who just bailed from his hometown while having press conferences in which the guy he is replacing is being lectured about how holding out of one's contract never pays off! :-)

[Killericon]

That son of a bitch just lost us half his trade value. Mother****er.

[DB-Freak]

LMAO!!

Lelie has every chance to compete for #1 WR spot. Outperform Walker and Smith and his wish will be granted.

Haha sounds as if he knows he's gonna tooled by not only Rod, but with Walker to and is looking for a way out.

From his perspective, it's not unreasonable. Probably wants to go to a team with less competition.

[Chiefman420]

we'll give you a 6th round choice in 2011 for him.

[epicSocialism4tw]

we'll give you a 6th round choice in 2011 for him.

Even with his limitations, he's still better than anything that the Chiefs can put on the field.

[mhgaffney]

Some of the negative **** on this board is up - chukable.

Face it -- Lelie is a great receiver -- great because he has the speed, the reach, and those soft sticky hands.

Is it Lelie's fault Denver runs the foo-ball? NO. I can understand his side of it. Lelie's talent has been under utilized in Denver.

But I also trust that Shanahan knows Lelie's value as a deep threat.. Shanny ain't stupid. And I hope -- for all of our sakes -- this works itself out. I'd like to see Lelie snagging J. Cutler passes in two-three years. And Plummer's next year.

signed: one Denver fan who may soon eat everything he said about this 2006 draft. (smile)

[epicSocialism4tw]

uhhhhh.....?????? Did I miss something?

[orange 4 life]

hulamau with the level head as always.

great post my friend.

the thing that bothers me here is simply that ash is taking the walker move as an insult to him, and i dont AT ALL think thats the case.
i think the team would love to have THREE solid targets at wr.
think about it.
we havent had that since.....well, pretty much never. maybe the three amigos for a season or two, but none of them were even close to rods level. nattiel wasnt anywhere close to lelie.

anyway, when you look at the superbowl years we had rod and ed and no one else at wr (green was an occasional contributor but not often), BUT we had shannon sharpe at TE lining up in the slot quite often.

...and guess what?

they ALL had good stats.

what lelie doesnt understand is that the number on the depth chart DOESNT MATTER!!!!!!!!
if we had smith, walker, and lelie, we'd use all kinds of 3 receiver sets to utilize them.
lelie was quoted as saying "we dont run alot of 3 wr sets."

gee ash, you think that might be because we didnt have the PLAYERS to run 3 wr sets?

i just wish this wasnt happening.
the cutler pick drove me out of my mind (pretty much literally), and landing walker eased some pain, but knowing we had issues with lelie made it much less exciting.
after last season, all i wanted was EITHER a big play end or (preferably) a big play receiver.
i felt that was enough to get us over the hump. i still do.
if we can line up those three receivers, i believe plummer will have his best season (by far) and our offense will be essentially unstoppable.
think about it.
who do you double?
how do you cover them all?
...and even if you do, how do you contain plummer?
you cant. thats the answer.

someone PLEASE explain to ash that his numbers will go UP this year.
FORGET the depth chart and just realize that all 3 receivers will get SIGNIFICANT playing time.
also realize that with the addition of walker lining up lelie in the slot would mean safety coverage, which would mean ALOT of td's for ash.

ahhh whatever.
we're SOOOOOOOO close.
someone knock some sense into him!!
i just never thought ash was a me first kind of guy.
if he REALLY analyzed the situation, he'd realize how great HE could be in the offense the way it would be structured.
this sucks.

[Hulamau]

Some of the negative **** on this board is up - chukable.

Face it -- Lelie is a great receiver -- great because he has the speed, the reach, and those soft sticky hands.

Is it Lelie's fault Denver runs the foo-ball? NO. I can understand his side of it. Lelie's talent has been under utilized in Denver.

But I also trust that Shanahan knows Lelie's value as a deep threat.. Shanny ain't stupid. And I hope -- for all of our sakes -- this works itself out. I'd like to see Lelie snagging J. Cutler passes in two-three years. And Plummer's next year.

signed: one Denver fan who may soon eat everything he said about this 2006 draft. (smile)


Welcome mhgaffney,
Dont worry about the draft prognostication you just picked the wrong day to offer it when everyone was so fired up :-)!

Look forward to more posts.

[Hulamau]

Good post O4L

I hope that is what Heimerdinger is doing right now. Him coming in to run the offense is the perfect opportunity ot convince Lelie and everyone else that things will open up again and I don't see any reason Jake cant be both more wide open to include more targets in the passing game and still reduce his INTs compared to '04 when we last opened it up more. All the learning in the off season he did last year and what he is surely doing this year, could be enough to put us over the top with some new big targets for him in the short game as well as Walker and Lelie going deep.

Just those two lining up opposite each other with Rod and Scheffler going across the middle would be a nightmare for any defense

No one could cover that bunch and it would do wonders for the run game as well. Forget about stacking the box against us!

The key I think is simply for some one like Heimer to sit down with Ash and let him know he is wanted on the team and paint this kind of picture of how this new offense will be much more to his liking and wont be a repeat of '05 for as far as he is concerned and better for the whole team.

JAke was able to come from behind in Arizona and I felt last year that they took maybe a little too much of the gunslinger out of him than was necesary, which directly impacted Lelie significantly, making it hard to just turn it back on when we got behind.

I would gladly settle for a few more INTs for an extra 8 to 10 TDs.

[Moon§hiner]

The key question I have is that Heimerdinger tried to call Ashley and "he hadn't gotten back with him"....has he made an effort yet?...P.S. I was talking about making a call back, not trying to take over Rod's #1 spot as that is obvious.

[Popps]

Rod and Javon will split the lion's share of the catches and we've got some real upside with Watts, Devoe and Terrell fighting for 3rd WR catches.

See ya, Ash. Give us a call when you win that #1 spot.

[broncohaven]

Hi Broncohaven,

I dont think I've read in any thing Lelie has said close to a demand to be 'GIVEN' the #1 job as a condition of him returning! If you can show me that I'll gladly retrack what I've said. I know in the heat of outrage its easy to read it that way, but if you reread carefully a few times what he says I cant find anything like a demand or even an assurance they he will be 'given' the top spot.

What he said is he only wanted a level playing field to compete for the top spot, and show he is worthy of the job, which his also a very different thing.

Now he has over-reacted to this weeekends events and sees no hope and only wants out, and maybe a heart to heart with Heimerdinger might help him see the forest through the trees.

But my reference to hypocrisy had NOTHING to do with the relative merits of one case over the other. It's simply question of honoring your rookie contract PERIOD! Not damning one guy who wants to leave you (a loss for us) and celebrating the other (a gain for us) for doing whatever they did to break free from their orignal contractual obligation.

If the 'ethics' of a deal is based on how great your last season two years ago was, then all contracts are meaningless in any event and the NFL might well descend into free for all.

That was the danger with Portis getting out of here. It all worked out for the best, and this one may too, for both teams, but its a bad precident. If Walker had been a 4th round pick for $800,000 and gone to the Pro Bowl a smart team would renegotiate a long term deal to up his pay while locking him in.

Walker was very average no better than Lelie in their respective first two years when both were #2WR and only had one decent year at the#1 before demanding a big increase. He came into camp only after Bret humiliated him and got injured right off and then vowed he was going to leave no matter what.

I dont blame Walker for wanting out, just like I don't blame Ash for wanting a better opportunity than last year provided him here, but somewhere along the line people have to start honoring AND enforcing these first round contracts or towns like New Orleans and Detroit wont be able to keep any decent players more than a couple years.

The hypocrisy I'm referring to is when someone bitterly slams Lelie while at the same time praising Walker and what he did. It doesn't mean what either has done is 'evil', just that claiming one is OK and the other a travesty is kind of like saying its OK to steal as long as it works out for you and you don't get caught.

Anyway, I have no problem with Walker here and hope he turns out to be the next Jerry Rice for 15 years. But I can appreciate the irony in shelling out a $40 million dollar contract to a guy who just bailed from his hometown while having press conferences in which the guy he is replacing is being lectured about how holding out of one's contract never pays off! :-)
Well said, I just have a couple of issues. The first is that Lelie is not asking to be given anything. His statement that he wants to be given a chance to compete for the #1 spot is thinly veiled. Shanahan is perhaps the most objective coach in the league when it comes to doling out playing time, just ask Bubby. Lelie himself should know considering his #2 position was seriously challenged by undrafted players. Given Shanahan's take on players, Lelie has been given every opportunity to win the spot. I don't buy, for a second, that Lelie hasn't been given a level playing field. Other than in his own mind, and that's the real problem I have with Ashley. He's given up the fight.

I wrote an article concerning Walker prior to last season in which I stated that Green Bay and Philadelphia should let their respective receivers stew on the sidelines for the entire season while fining them at every turn. You've signed a contract, and it should be honored.

That said, Walker did not miss a day of training despite being thrown under the bus by Favre. Even after he blew out his knee he stated that he was looking forward to being healthy in 2007 so he could get back to playing on Lambeau field. I can only guess that his current stance is due to something that happened between when the injury occured and a couple of months ago when he said that he would retire before playing in GB. We'll never know.

Also, I would hardly call Walker's 2004 "decent". He was the 3rd leading receiver in the league with 1382 yards and 12 touchdowns. More productive than everyone other than Muhsin Muhammed and Joe Horn. Lelie was 35th in the league. Average that out, and every team in the league had a receiver more productive than Lelie. Where does he get the idea that he's a #1 from that?

I don't think that Walker was rewarded for holding out. After all, he didn't. He was rewarded for being a Pro Bowl receiver and being a wanted commodity by a team looking to add a complete receiver to the roster. I've always liked Lelie, but he's completely out of line here.

[azbroncfan]

With a 13-season veteran in Rod Smith coming off a Pro Bowl, Plummer doesn't see Lelie moving to the top slot.

"As far as him being our No. 1 until he overtakes Rod Smith, that's just not going to happen," Plummer said. "That's just plain writing on the wall. I really hope Ashley comes in and works hard to be, whether or not he's No. 1, but be the best person he can be. That will help him in the long run."

Holding out, in Plummer's estimation, will not.

[Hulamau]

The key question I have is that Heimerdinger tried to call Ashley and "he hadn't gotten back with him"....has he made an effort yet?...P.S. I was talking about making a call back, not trying to take over Rod's #1 spot as that is obvious.

From what it sounded like Lelie had just gotten the message and said he hadn't had a chane to call him back yet. I dont think he would blow him off.

Sounds like the Rocky Mountain news article with Lelie's first comments hit the doorstep Monday morning and then Heimerdigner must have called him as Sundquist apparently marshalled the forces and got Plummer out to do a video comment on both Cutler and Lelie and it sounded like from what Ash said that Burger Bill must have called him that same day before he had a chance to get back to him Heimer.

Sounds on the up and up to me. Lets see what comes of it all.

[Hulamau]

Well said, I just have a couple of issues. The first is that Lelie is not asking to be given anything. His statement that he wants to be given a chance to compete for the #1 spot is thinly veiled. Shanahan is perhaps the most objective coach in the league when it comes to doling out playing time, just ask Bubby. Lelie himself should know considering his #2 position was seriously challenged by undrafted players. Given Shanahan's take on players, Lelie has been given every opportunity to win the spot. I don't buy, for a second, that Lelie hasn't been given a level playing field. Other than in his own mind, and that's the real problem I have with Ashley. He's given up the fight.

I wrote an article concerning Walker prior to last season in which I stated that Green Bay and Philadelphia should let their respective receivers stew on the sidelines for the entire season while fining them at every turn. You've signed a contract, and it should be honored.

That said, Walker did not miss a day of training despite being thrown under the bus by Favre. Even after he blew out his knee he stated that he was looking forward to being healthy in 2007 so he could get back to playing on Lambeau field. I can only guess that his current stance is due to something that happened between when the injury occured and a couple of months ago when he said that he would retire before playing in GB. We'll never know.

Also, I would hardly call Walker's 2004 "decent". He was the 3rd leading receiver in the league with 1382 yards and 12 touchdowns. More productive than everyone other than Muhsin Muhammed and Joe Horn. Lelie was 35th in the league. Average that out, and every team in the league had a receiver more productive than Lelie. Where does he get the idea that he's a #1 from that?

I don't think that Walker was rewarded for holding out. After all, he didn't. He was rewarded for being a Pro Bowl receiver and being a wanted commodity by a team looking to add a complete receiver to the roster. I've always liked Lelie, but he's completely out of line here.


And I like Walker too and really hope is is killer here, but keep in mind when comaring Walkers and Lelie's 2004 seasons that Walker wsasa #1 with Favre and had a bit less that 300 yrds more total yard than Lelie but Walkers Production was on 89 catches versus 54 for Lelie and ASh led the league in YPC. That is 35 more grabs by Walker over Ash with Favre on a decent GB team ( unlikje last years version) which dividied into the extra 300 yrds Walker had over ahs 1088 total equals abotu 8.6 yrds per catch on those 35 grabs above and beyond Lelie 54 grabs and total yardage. Still great numbers by Walker but its not a real apples to appples comparions with Lelie. Too very different situations in which they boith did a great job but with the primary target Javon obviously deserved the bigger recognition.

So while Walker had a great season Lelie also had a very good one too as a #2 and actually had more yards per number of opportunities than did Walker. and almost as many TDs per catch. It would have been interesting to see their respective production if each had been in the others shoes that year. I suspect very comparable.

I kind of hoped Lelie would get traded to GB straight up for Walker so we could have a very interesting comparison.

That is why it isnt fair to compare a #1 and a #2 production and assume it says anything absolute about ther repsective capablity.

AS it is, it really wouldnt be that close a comparison now with Heimerdinger calling the shots rather than Kubes who in my opinion got a little stale here as well as a new group in GB.

There was no other established long time #1 like a Rod Smith in GB and Walker was THE GUY in 04. Lets hope he can translate that kind of year he had in 04 to here this year.

[Disco Man]

Lelie go for it!!!!!!! Hold out for a year, that would sure help out when you try and get that BIG next contract to be a #1 guy on another team. What you should do is show up and work hard like all the rest, prove yourself this year and get down the road to a team like the raiders when your deal is up.

[BroncosMT]

I am tired of hearing about Lelie. And everyone thought that TO would cause a stir. Lelie was sooo worried about Owens coming in that he is acting like him. If you want to be a damn #1 then go and play like one. Stop bitching and play. Prove it. Walk the walk. I think we need to cut or trade his ass before it becomes more of a problem. You have to wonder though....not even Green Bay who needs a receiver wanted him. That has to send a message to him.

[Macnut]

Lelie get back to Denver and work and challenge and see what happens. More importantly honor your contract. If you do well then nobody can keep you off the field 'cause that would be stupid. Just make sure you make the best of whatever opportunities come your way.

One thing that cracks me up is hearing alot of posters here wishing Lelie gone 'cause he's a no good WR but then say not to a rival team!? If he's no good then why not? Scared?

[Rausch]

Whatever.

Leslie won't be hard to replace.

[watermock]

Once again, Ash this isnt the right tack to take. It isnt going to solve the concerns you have. This is simply the cards that you have been dealt. You've done a good job building up your image as a hard worker and a good guy and you will be losing it all over this. Just accept the role, do the best you can, do not complain in public and then sign a 1 yr. contract with the team (and offensive system) of your choice next summer so that you can prove that your worth the money. That's the only approach.

It's collosal irony Walker is working out with Lelie planting evil seeds in his mind. "Look at me, I pulled it off, you can too...and I have an ACL..." Of course, Lelie leaves Walker a stone cold red carpet to being the #2, which is what Rod is. Smith isn't going to give up the 1 without a fight, and he's got that spot polished like a fine classic car. Till he loses a full step instead of my perception it's half a step, he's not going down. I think he will jump from 1 to 3 quite honestly. And he won't be a hanger on like Rice.

[Hulamau]

The following is just a small sample of posts from Friday through Monday from only one Packer's board selected at random. This is offered not to diss Walker as everyone gets a fair start over in a new city and I wish him well, but just to show how uncanny it is that you could replace Walker's name with Lelie's and these posts would all seemlessly fit here and be right at home in this thread!

And to top off the irony, Walker is working out with Lelie and hanging out in Arizona! Amazing :-)



Re: Javon Walker
by: tmrach 04/26/06 11:37 pm
Msg: 37 of 44

It's simple,Javon needs to shut his mouth if he wants to play ball yet this year,play out his final year on his contract and see if he's healthy enough. I just don't see his logic,he worth nothing to other teams right now because he won't be able to play until late training camp at the earliest.


Re: Javon Walker
by: natalie3247 04/26/06 10:58 pm
Msg: 35 of 44

The Packers would be lucky to get a second round pick for Walker but if they can get a second or third rounder, good riddence, Javon. Favre made him what he was and I can't see him putting up similar numbers elsewhere, especially coming of the major knee injury. He's a cancer. As for drafting defense, how about Ferguson or Davis if they are available and pick up a Carpenter or other in the second round. Of course if Lendale White is still available in the second...


Re: Javon Walker
by: tmrach 04/26/06 11:37 pm
Msg: 37 of 44

It's simple,Javon needs to shut his mouth if he wants to play ball yet this year,play out his final year on his contract and see if he's healthy enough. I just don't see his logic,he worth nothing to other teams right now because he won't be able to play until late training camp at the earliest.


Re: Javon Walker
by: pckjoe1 (59/M/united states) 04/30/06 12:56 am
Msg: 40 of 44

GOOD BY JAVON
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON
THE WAY OUT


Re: Javon Walker
by: jnorton22002 04/30/06 05:31 pm
Msg: 42 of 44

The way I view this, is we need to have good people, willing to work hard, play the game because they love the game. This means not being a premadonna, think you are worth more than you are,and contribute to team moral, not ruin it. Farve was only speaking "His" opinion, but wasn't very far off. There are more good receivers out there and Donald Driver is as good as Walker in the areas the team will go to this year


Re: Javon Walker
by: azboyinwi (41/M/southern Wi.) 04/30/06 08:09 pm
Msg: 43 of 44

I say goodbye! and good riddance! We've got no room for discontents. One man does not make a complete receiving corps. Yes, he was a favorite target and caught some balls. But his demanding price was way too high for his production. I'm happy the malcontent is gone. Now please no more distrations for the upcoming year.

[Ballhawk]

I dont think comparing wanting more money to wanting a free pass is valid. Of Course there are only so many ways to say **** off, so I guess the fans would sound the same.

Sonic wanted more money and we traded him, fans may have cried play out your contract but I dont think his manhood was ever called into question.

[wabbit]

I've beena long-time fan & defender of Lelie, but this continuing diatribe is unconscionable.

It's almost worth the embarassment on Lelies' part to force him to play his final contract season here, and if he doesn't show up until week 9...suit him up immediately & run him on every crossing route you have in the play-book his first week back.

Welcome back...tell me, how many fingers do you see??

[Hulamau]

I dont think comparing wanting more money to wanting a free pass is valid. Of Course there are only so many ways to say **** off, so I guess the fans would sound the same.

Sonic wanted more money and we traded him, fans may have cried play out your contract but I dont think his manhood was ever called into question.

Hi Ballhawk,

Well if Lelie actually said or implied he wanted a "free pass" I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But after rereading once again his actual statements as quoted in the Post and Rocky Mountain news, and not being able find him saying anything of the kind, its a bit hard to go with that one.

In fact, he seems to make a point that a free gift is not what he is looking for. But I think at this point he too isnt hearing what Shnny and Sundquist are saying and is reacting to his own perception that he wont get a fair shake no matter what he does here, so hopefully Heimerdigner can set him straight and get him back on track.

However, until we get further clarification from Lelie what he is thinking, its a real stretch to say he is looking for a 'free pass' when he's indicated he's willing to give up football and all his paycecks to get what he's looking for, rightly or wrongly.

He just needs to hear that that 'now' and 'here' are the right time and place for action and quit listenting to whomever has his ear now whether its Walker, his agent or anyone else giving him bad advice.

[labronco]

There's gotta be a disgruntled starting DT somewhere we can swap with. There's got to be...

[Hulamau]

There's gotta be a disgruntled starting DT somewhere we can swap with. There's got to be...


:thumbs:

[watermock]

However, until we get further clarification from Lelie what he is thinking, its a real stretch to say he is looking for a 'free pass' when he's indicated he's willing to give up football and all his paycecks to get what he's looking for, rightly or wrongly.


Wrong. Money isn't the issue. Lelie doesn't want to be a diversionary WR or a #3. Well guess what...If you had shown up for workouts we probably wouldn't of traded for Walker!

It's amazing that Walker weasled into Lelie so easily and brainwashed him. When has Shanahan said that every position isn't open to competition? Walker isn't going to be handed the #1 to my knowledge. I'm not going to worry about it. The last person Lelie should be listening to is Walker, who must be giggling right now as he puts his pajamas on for the night.

I doubt Shanahan gave Walker carte blanche about being the #1.

[fontaine]

Hi Mediator12,

But Heimerdinger is the key to possibly making this work out. Has anyone known of a first round WR who wasn't a bit of a primadonna by nature?

. . . . .

MAybe there is still time yet for Heimerdineger to shed some light for him that hes making the wrong moves to accomplish his long term goal..

This is what I find hilarious about Lelie apologists. They deflect responsibility away from Lelie onto other players, the coach, the system and NOW it's up to Heimerdinger.

WTF?

The only person that can work this out is Lelie. It's up to HIM and HIM alone. What the hell is Heimerdinger going to do if Lelie isn't willing to get his mind set right? The only person that can help him out is himself.

Until Leleave learns to commit 100% on the field he'll still be whining about not getting enough chances.


Its a simple common-sense observation as a smart way to keep healthy any relationship in life that you are interesting in manitaining and securing one's investment in, or getting someone's cooperation and participation in. To help insure this, it usually helps to include them at least somewhere along the way, before everyone else knows about it and let them know how they fit in rather than letting them find out about it on SportsCenter or when a friend calls and asks whats up! Particularly when it directly effects the person in questions job and livelihood.

Have you ever had employees under you? Its one of the first rules of a successful operation to fully explain any changing roles and expectations when new people come in that directly effect those that are already there.

Oh God. You're even beginning to sound like Lelie. This isn't the Loveboat, it's the NFL.

Al Wilson didn't know Pierce was drafted until it happened.
Plummer didn't know Cutler was drafted until it happened.

If every coach got permission and talked to his players before he made moves then he wouldn't be coach but the player's b*tch.

Like Shanahan said, if you can't handle competition then you don't belong in this game.

[Odysseus]

I've beena long-time fan & defender of Lelie, but this continuing diatribe is unconscionable.

It's almost worth the embarassment on Lelies' part to force him to play his final contract season here, and if he doesn't show up until week 9...suit him up immediately & run him on every crossing route you have in the play-book his first week back.

Welcome back...tell me, how many fingers do you see??

Every player I can remember whose come off a hold out comes back and gets hurt. It's like a curse. Poor Ashley.

Let's take Lelie's perspective for a minute. Broncos brought in every controversial and angry prospect they could find at WR. They drafted Maurice Clarett. Lelie probably said F__ these dysfunctional M___ F___!

We created that monster. Lelie probably is still a sweetheart of a guy but somewhere in the Shanahan logic talking straight with this guy never happened. Shanahan assumed the guy was mature, knew the deal, and could figure out this stuff but he never did. He's just reacting like a little kid doing what all the other bad little kids are doing. Terrell Owens? Javon Walker? Keyshawn? McCardell? Maybe his point is "Hey! I can act like a prima donna too if that's what it takes." He's being immature but what is funny is why DID the Broncos not get this situation in check earlier? Was it presumption on their part? Everyone that knows this guy says he is acting like he lost his mind. O.K. What did or didn't the Broncos organization say to him to set him off? ;D

[watermock]

First, it's none of Lelie's business who we bring in.

Second, I find it incredibly odd that Walker and Lelie are working out together.

Third, Jake was total class when we drafted Cutler and said he would of drafted him too and offered to mentor him. (for what that is worth). But it was genuine and he was honest from what I could tell.

Lelie did nothing but hurt himself. Denver would of moved him is there was serious interest. I haven't heard of a single sniff of interest, at least any that has become public.

[Atlas]

Plummer, Sundquist Encourage Lelie To Return

(CBS4/DenverBroncos.com) ENGLEWOOD, Colo. Jake Plummer had one message Monday for wide receiver Ashley Lelie: Get back to Denver -- for not only the team's sake, but his own.

"He's helped me out a lot in my career (and) done some great things, but the only way to get better and be what you want to be is to be out here working," Plummer said. "He knows that and I think he wants to get out here, but he has to do what's right by him."

Head Coach Mike Shanahan noted over the weekend that if Lelie wants to gain solid footing in the receiver derby, he would be best served by working out at the team's facility instead of in Arizona. The Broncos' receiving corps now encompasses recent Pro Bowlers Rod Smith and Javon Walker, former first-round pick David Terrell, veterans Charlie Adams, Todd Devoe, Darius Watts and David Kircus and a pair of fourth-round rookies in Brandon Marshall and Domenik Hixon.

"I think (working out at Dove Valley) gives him the best chance to compete," Shanahan said Saturday. "Ashley is in the last year of his contract. If you want compete with the guys that we have on our football team and you want to get better, it's hard to do that when you are away.

"But Ashley has done a lot of great things for this organization, and he's made a lot of great plays for us. I'd still like him on this football team. I'd like for him to come in here and compete. If he doesn't, I can't do anything about it except with mini-camp, but I can't see how that would help him for his future contracts unless he comes in here and really performs at a high level next year."

Lelie made his first offseason comments on his contract situation to the Rocky Mountain News, which ran the story Monday morning. Hours after the newspaper collided with many a doorstep in the Denver area, Plummer and General Manager Ted Sundquist addressed the situation.

Said Sundquist: "My reaction to Ashley right now is that he's under contract and we fully expect Ashley to be back ... I understand his concerns. There are two sides to every story. If he chooses to speak to the media and air his concerns, that's his concern.

"From our position, he's under contract and I expect him to be back in camp this summer."

Lelie noted Sunday that he was willing to sacrifice the 2006 season in order to get a chance to become a team's No. 1 wide receiver, telling the News, "If I have to sit out this whole year and become a free agent next year, then sign a one-year deal to prove myself to somebody else to be a No. 1, I will."

Added Shanahan this weekend: "He wants to be the No. 1 receiver, and the best chance of being No. 1 is to come in here and compete with the other guys. That's the only way I know to be No. 1 is to come in here and get better."

With a 13-season veteran in Rod Smith coming off a Pro Bowl, Plummer doesn't see Lelie moving to the top slot.

"As far as him being our No. 1 until he overtakes Rod Smith, that's just not going to happen," Plummer said. "That's just plain writing on the wall. I really hope Ashley comes in and works hard to be, whether or not he's No. 1, but be the best person he can be. That will help him in the long run."

Holding out, in Plummer's estimation, will not.

"I don't see any positives coming from ever holding out," he said. "Very rarely does it happen where you get your way."

[BroncoInferno]

[size]Lelie noted Sunday that he was willing to sacrifice the 2006 season in order to get a chance to become a team's No. 1 wide receiver, telling the News, "If I have to sit out this whole year and become a free agent next year, then sign a one-year deal to prove myself to somebody else to be a No. 1, I will."

I can't even see how this is logical. Wouldn't it be better for him in the eyes of potential suitors to produce something in '06 as the #3 WR rather than nothing, rather than not playing at all? If he sits out and then tries to report during week 10, Shanny will probably suspend him or at the very least deactivate him for the remainder of the season. Lelie simply has no leverage here.

[BroncosMT]

I mean let's get serious. The 49ers and the Packers who both need major receiving help DID NOT want Lelie. Why?? Because he hasn't proven anything. This year is the year for him to go out and win a big contract. He's not going to do that sitting home. Hopefully there is someone out there that wants this guy who has a d-tackle to trade. Like I said I see that highly unlikely as the two teams who need receivers said "No Thanks!"

[-Slap-]

Plummer, Sundquist Encourage Lelie To Return

(CBS4/DenverBroncos.com) ENGLEWOOD, Colo. Jake Plummer had one message Monday for wide receiver Ashley Lelie: Get back to Denver -- for not only the team's sake, but his own.

"He's helped me out a lot in my career (and) done some great things, but the only way to get better and be what you want to be is to be out here working," Plummer said. "He knows that and I think he wants to get out here, but he has to do what's right by him."

Head Coach Mike Shanahan noted over the weekend that if Lelie wants to gain solid footing in the receiver derby, he would be best served by working out at the team's facility instead of in Arizona. The Broncos' receiving corps now encompasses recent Pro Bowlers Rod Smith and Javon Walker, former first-round pick David Terrell, veterans Charlie Adams, Todd Devoe, Darius Watts and David Kircus and a pair of fourth-round rookies in Brandon Marshall and Domenik Hixon.

"I think (working out at Dove Valley) gives him the best chance to compete," Shanahan said Saturday. "Ashley is in the last year of his contract. If you want compete with the guys that we have on our football team and you want to get better, it's hard to do that when you are away.

"But Ashley has done a lot of great things for this organization, and he's made a lot of great plays for us. I'd still like him on this football team. I'd like for him to come in here and compete. If he doesn't, I can't do anything about it except with mini-camp, but I can't see how that would help him for his future contracts unless he comes in here and really performs at a high level next year."

With a 13-season veteran in Rod Smith coming off a Pro Bowl, Plummer doesn't see Lelie moving to the top slot.

"As far as him being our No. 1 until he overtakes Rod Smith, that's just not going to happen," Plummer said. "That's just plain writing on the wall. I really hope Ashley comes in and works hard to be, whether or not he's No. 1, but be the best person he can be. That will help him in the long run."

Holding out, in Plummer's estimation, will not.

"I don't see any positives coming from ever holding out," he said. "Very rarely does it happen where you get your way."

So, when are all the Favre bashers going to jump Plummer's ass for getting involved in another player's contract issues?

[broncohaven]

Hula,

"Me coming back is definitely out of the question at this point with me being the No. 3 receiver," Lelie said. How is the quote above not implying that he wants to be given something instead of earning it? He's saying that he isn't going to be a Bronco unless he's given the #1 or #2 spot. He doesn't want to have to come in and earn the spot. That's the definition of wanting t be given something in my book.

He can say "I don't want to be given anything" until he's blue in the face, but it's hollow rhetoric if he's also saying "I won't be back unless I'm given a top spot".

[Hulamau]

Hula,

"Me coming back is definitely out of the question at this point with me being the No. 3 receiver," Lelie said. How is the quote above not implying that he wants to be given something instead of earning it? He's saying that he isn't going to be a Bronco unless he's given the #1 or #2 spot. He doesn't want to have to come in and earn the spot. That's the definition of wanting t be given something in my book.

He can say "I don't want to be given anything" until he's blue in the face, but it's hollow rhetoric if he's also saying "I won't be back unless I'm given a top spot".


He also says he's looking for a even playing field as he feels that as it is now, no matter how good he plays in camp he's not going above WAlker who just got a 10 million clams.

Last year his ooportunities dropped significantly from the year before and hes stuck in the mind set that that is how it will be here, and he obviously hasnt factored in a new OC and an aging Rod into the equation.

I disagree with him entirely and his best bet is to come in and make the best of it and next year will take care of itself one way or the other, but I do understand how he got to this point.

I'm not defending what he said here in the slightest and think this is his major miscalculation. It sounds more like an early emotional reaction to what happend this weekend and he shouldn't have talked to the press until some time passed and he can see his way through to more common sense.

Perhaps that process is happening now with the firing of his agent. Did Ash just seek out the reporter from the Rocky Mountian news or did his agent arrange the interview and tell him to speak his mind?

Who here hasn't stuck their foot in their mouths when upset without thinking things through? Have any of you who are so willing to torch the guy before this thing has played out? I know I have in the past.

If he had a history of throwing tantrums and being a primadonna that would be one thing and we easliy could write it off as his characteristic egomania like with TO and tell him to hit the road.

That isnt the case though as he wasnt remotely like this in college, nor during the four years here. Even Shanny said on Saturday that "Ash has always been a class guy".

My suggestion is to lets see how this whole thing plays out in the long run before throwing him under the bus ... except of course for the few who ran him over before he ever got here.

[2KBack]

So, when are all the Favre bashers going to jump Plummer's ass for getting involved in another player's contract issues?

Far from the same. Farve came out and said "I hope they don't give it to him." That's practically a direct assault.

[Odysseus]

With a 13-season veteran in Rod Smith coming off a Pro Bowl, Plummer doesn't see Lelie moving to the top slot.

"As far as him being our No. 1 until he overtakes Rod Smith, that's just not going to happen," Plummer said. "That's just plain writing on the wall. I really hope Ashley comes in and works hard to be, whether or not he's No. 1, but be the best person he can be. That will help him in the long run."

Holding out, in Plummer's estimation, will not.

Good post.

[Macnut]

First, it's none of Lelie's business who we bring in.

Second, I find it incredibly odd that Walker and Lelie are working out together.

Third, Jake was total class when we drafted Cutler and said he would of drafted him too and offered to mentor him. (for what that is worth). But it was genuine and he was honest from what I could tell.

Lelie did nothing but hurt himself. Denver would of moved him is there was serious interest. I haven't heard of a single sniff of interest, at least any that has become public.
I agree. Good post! Its kinda embarassing to hear that he wants to hold out. Action speaks louder than words, get to practice and show 'um!

[Macnut]

ETC.: Receiver Ashley Lelie's situation has taken another turn with news he has fired his agents, Michael Sullivan and Doug Hendrickson. It will be his next representation's chore to work out a trade or convince Lelie he would be better served playing out the final year of his contract instead of following through on a holdout threat. The Broncos say they expect Lelie to honor the contract.

Looks like Ash got some bad advice from his agents. Scroll to the bottom.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_4669063,00.html

[BroncoBuff]

I don't think that Walker was rewarded for holding out. After all, he didn't. He was rewarded for being a Pro Bowl receiver and being a wanted commodity by a team looking to add a complete receiver to the roster.
And if memory serves me, didn't Javon have ROSENHAUS as his agent?!

If that's correct, he gets a pass as far as I'm concerned.

[thumpc]

Lelie has been working out with Javon in AZ. If he thinks Denver is going to start Walker, then he must know the knee rehab is coming along very well. Thats encouraging.

[Kaylore]

Lelie has been working out with Javon in AZ. If he thinks Denver is going to start Walker, then he must know the knee rehab is coming along very well. Thats encouraging. I was thinking the same thing! I remember thinking "man if he sees Javon every day and already knows that he can't beat him, then that must mean Javon will be ready go when camps starts." :)

[thumpc]

Hell, thats who they heard it from in the first place.

[thumpc]

Lelie," You know its amazing how fast people can recover from acl surgery these days. I've been doing all the drills with Javon Walker in Phoenix and he really looks great."
Heimerdinger," you dont say?"

[-Slap-]

Far from the same. Farve came out and said "I hope they don't give it to him." That's practically a direct assault.
Exactly the same. A player is threatening a holdout and his quarterback is telling him to get into camp. Ultimately Lelie's issues come down to money. Obviously getting demoted just before his contract year is going to impact his bargaining power. Why is the quarterback getting involved in another player's contract status with the team?

[-Slap-]

And if memory serves me, didn't Javon have ROSENHAUS as his agent?!

If that's correct, he gets a pass as far as I'm concerned.
You may be unaware of this, but players hire agents to work for them. Walker hired ROSENHAUS because he wanted his first round contract torn up two years early and nobody hires that prick unless they're considering a holdout.

[watermock]

So, when are all the Favre bashers going to jump Plummer's ass for getting involved in another player's contract issues?

Well, to begin with, Lelie isn't holding out for money, he's holding out for a position currently held by Rod Smith. I haven't heard any new contract demands at all, that was going to happen anyway depending on his progress. That progress will now turn to regression, period. Second, Plummer wasn't nearly as biting as Favre and doesn't make nearly the coin Favre does. Third, Plummer was so gracious as to completely accept the Cutler signing as competition, and he hasn't been hee-hawing around for the last several years while the team kisses his ass...that's why Rodgers was drafted. How do you think that guy feels?

[Rascal]

Too bad he can't be like this guy:

http://www.footballguys.com/dailyupdatephotos/reggiebushad.htm

Talk about an excellent PR move.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Well, to begin with, Lelie isn't holding out for money, he's holding out for a position currently held by Rod Smith. I haven't heard any new contract demands at all, that was going to happen anyway depending on his progress. That progress will now turn to regression, period. Second, Plummer wasn't nearly as biting as Favre and doesn't make nearly the coin Favre does. Third, Plummer was so gracious as to completely accept the Cutler signing as competition, and he hasn't been hee-hawing around for the last several years while the team kisses his ass...that's why Rodgers was drafted. How do you think that guy feels?

Don't be fooled, Mock. It's ALL about money. Lelie is in his contract year and he is fearful he will have to be shopped on the open market after a year where he was the broncos #3 at best. Not that it will actually play out that way, but that's his fear. $$$$$ His is attempting to extort the Broncos into moving him to a team where he has a better chance to post more gawdy numbers. A more pass friendly team, if you will.

[Odysseus]

Exactly the same. A player is threatening a holdout and his quarterback is telling him to get into camp. Ultimately Lelie's issues come down to money. Obviously getting demoted just before his contract year is going to impact his bargaining power. Why is the quarterback getting involved in another player's contract status with the team?

Ultimately this is a pure business deal. Lelie has been pissed a long time. He could not have picked a worst time to become a prima donna. The Broncos are going to lose on this deal not matter how it's played. It's either a bitter divorce with both parties suffering or a bitter reconciliation where both parties are pissed at their compromises. Lelie has pretty much made sure this is going to end ugly.

Plummer is involved because Lelie gives the team a better chance of winning the Superbowl. This is a fact. If I am Plummer I am definitely speaking up. This isn't a gee golly thing. It's a money thing too. He's taking food off Plummer's table with this. To say it's a seperate deal isn't exactly true.

Why doesn't Javon speak up? Oh yeah. He got paid. What does he care?

Lelie wants "respect" but like most people who don't know what that really means he's not in actuality giving any.

[DrFate]

Face it -- Lelie is a great receiver -- great because he has the speed, the reach, and those soft sticky hands.
42 catches, 1 TD = great ???

[watermock]

Don't be fooled, Mock. It's ALL about money. Lelie is in his contract year and he is fearful he will have to be shopped on the open market after a year where he was the broncos #3 at best. Not that it will actually play out that way, but that's his fear. $$$$$ His is attempting to extort the Broncos into moving him to a team where he has a better chance to post more gawdy numbers. A more pass friendly team, if you will.

Fine, but the stone cold fact is that Lelie wants the #1 and has said money isn't the object at all. Of course I don't believe him, it's just running his street cred even lower. Just be honest. There isn't any logic to this with Dinger coming in whatsoever. It's quite possible we wouldn't of traded for Walker if he wasn't being a priss. Teams look at this and see under 300 yards and 1 TD, and a replacement in Walker with an ACL. Top it off and they now see a malcontent. This won't come out good for him.

[Meck77]

All these posts bashing Lelie are just laughable, put yourself in his shoes and you'd do the same thing. If something similar happened at your job, you'd feel the same way too.

No I wouldn't do what Lelie is doing. I'd take the advice of guys like Shanny (My boss) and Plummer (leader of the team) and earn my spot as the #1.

What's laughable is how out of touch you are as well as the other Lelie defenders. Not sure if this has been posted but on the local news last night they reported that a source with the Broncos told Lelie "To Shut up". They wouldn't disclose who it was within that said it.

[ludo21]

No I wouldn't do what Lelie is doing. I'd take the advice of guys like Shanny (My boss) and Plummer (leader of the team) and earn my spot as the #1.

What's laughable is how out of touch you are as well as the other Lelie defenders. Not sure if this has been posted but on the local news last night they reported that a source with the Broncos told Lelie "To Shut up". They wouldn't disclose who it was within that said it.


Amen!

Listening to Rod this morning is how all players should be. But its ALL about "Lovin me some of me" I dont want thos kind of players on the Broncos.

[listopencil]

Re: Javon Walker
by: tmrach 04/26/06 11:37 pm
Msg: 37 of 44

It's simple,Javon needs to shut his mouth if he wants to play ball yet this year,play out his final year on his contract and see if he's healthy enough. I just don't see his logic,he worth nothing to other teams right now because he won't be able to play until late training camp at the earliest.


....obviously untrue. Several teams were bidding for him and we got him.


Re: Javon Walker
by: natalie3247 04/26/06 10:58 pm
Msg: 35 of 44

The Packers would be lucky to get a second round pick for Walker but if they can get a second or third rounder, good riddence, Javon. Favre made him what he was and I can't see him putting up similar numbers elsewhere, especially coming of the major knee injury. He's a cancer. As for drafting defense, how about Ferguson or Davis if they are available and pick up a Carpenter or other in the second round. Of course if Lendale White is still available in the second...


Who got lucky? The experts say we did.


Re: Javon Walker
by: tmrach 04/26/06 11:37 pm
Msg: 37 of 44

It's simple,Javon needs to shut his mouth if he wants to play ball yet this year,play out his final year on his contract and see if he's healthy enough. I just don't see his logic,he worth nothing to other teams right now because he won't be able to play until late training camp at the earliest.

Nope. Didn't happen.


Re: Javon Walker
by: pckjoe1 (59/M/united states) 04/30/06 12:56 am
Msg: 40 of 44

GOOD BY JAVON
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON
THE WAY OUT

He didn't. Later days, pckjoe1

Re: Javon Walker
by: jnorton22002 04/30/06 05:31 pm
Msg: 42 of 44

The way I view this, is we need to have good people, willing to work hard, play the game because they love the game. This means not being a premadonna, think you are worth more than you are,and contribute to team moral, not ruin it. Farve was only speaking "His" opinion, but wasn't very far off. There are more good receivers out there and Donald Driver is as good as Walker in the areas the team will go to this year

Cool. We'll give you Lelie then.

Re: Javon Walker
by: azboyinwi (41/M/southern Wi.) 04/30/06 08:09 pm
Msg: 43 of 44

I say goodbye! and good riddance! We've got no room for discontents. One man does not make a complete receiving corps. Yes, he was a favorite target and caught some balls. But his demanding price was way too high for his production. I'm happy the malcontent is gone. Now please no more distrations for the upcoming year.


Eh...he reported to camp and played. That's how he got hurt. Javon says goodbye to you too.







Sounds like a bunch of crap. Walker asked for more money after a huge year and didn't get it. So he came in to play. Then he hurt himself. Now Lelie is asking to be moved up the depth chart for no reason and threatening to hold out if the Broncos don't do it. Nowhere near the same.

[Hulamau]

Sounds like a bunch of crap. Walker asked for more money after a huge year and didn't get it. So he came in to play. Then he hurt himself. Now Lelie is asking to be moved up the depth chart for no reason and threatening to hold out if the Broncos don't do it. Nowhere near the same.

So its OK to skip out on rookie first round contracts and demand to be traded or get paid if you have one pro bowl year?

Remember Walker got nearly $7 million not some $500,000 dollar 4th round contract.

And he absolutely did threatend to hold out THIS year or he would have RETIRED and he sold his house in GB already to prove it! I'd call that forcing the issue, however one wants to rationalize it.

This reactive stance floating around that Lelie is asking for a 'guaranteed #1 without competition' is not correct and you cant find anything in his quotes that say or even suggest that.

He is still being a dumbass in my view by threatening to walk, and not seeing his best way out of a tough situation is to bite the bullet one more year and see what happens. Hell both Rod and Walker could very well get injured and then he gets it all anyway, but that wont happen if he's not here.

He knows that too and seems like he is banking on getting with another team that uses more 3 receiver sets.

Far from demanding to be 'given the #1 spot' he seems to be following Javon's tactic to a 'T' and simply wants to move to a new team.

Hes probably pissed that Shanny wouldnt take the Texans offer for Lelie during draft weekend too, I suspect that was for the 3rd rounder we heard about.

Not many #2WR are going to demand a second round pick, so if the Texans did offer a solid 3rd rounder and we turned them down, either Shanny values what Lelie could do for the team more than what the Texans offered, or he's putting the screws to Lelie for threatening to hold out. Who knows maybe a little of both.

Either way this could be part of what sent Lelie through the roof in this uncharacteristic reaction of his. Time should tell as we hear more of the story.

Neverthelss, hopefly he has had a chance to calm down and see his best option is to swallow a little crow and come in here and buckle down. It will certainly be better than mowing the lawn all year.

[ol number 7]

This is really unfortunate, but what can you do? With all of the drops and the unwillingness to perform across the middle, you cant commit #1 plays and #1 money to a guy that isnt well rounded.

The best thing is to find him a place to play. In the NFC. Definately not in Indy.

Next it will be Lelie doing situps and dumbell curls in his driveway.:~ohyah!:

[watermock]

Denver runs as many 3WR sets as anyone and a WR coach as the OC that developed Rod and Eddie. Denver should of take the early three and considered it a gift from Gary. I think Walker is whispering in his ear like Rasputin in Arizona.

Shanahan is one of the very last coaches that won't bend to contract demands till the final year of a contract. See Portis. Hell, even Parcells folded, but on the recieving end, he didn't sell him. Reid is one, and I respect him. The spitter in Pitt too. Go ahead and give Randal El 10 million in bonus. They let him go. Billichick is another.

[broncohaven]

You may be unaware of this, but players hire agents to work for them. Walker hired ROSENHAUS because he wanted his first round contract torn up two years early and nobody hires that prick unless they're considering a holdout.
So then Walker fired Rosenhaus because?

I don't think we'd be talking about any of this if the Packers hadn't told Walker they would get him a new deal. There's a difference between demanding a new contract out of the blue and being told you'll get a new deal and then not getting it.

[CHEF LUIGI]

Lelie has been working out with Javon in AZ. If he thinks Denver is going to start Walker, then he must know the knee rehab is coming along very well. Thats encouraging.
great point!
ash is a chump.
incomplete receiver, and those terms dont go well together.
deep threat, little more, thats all ash brings to the table.
Go deep, ash, all the way out of town !
not one single NFL team thinks you were worth more than an unproven second round pick.(only kubes offered a third)
after 3 years in the NFL, every other team thinks a rookie from the third round is worth more than you, get a clue!