Congress Finally Gets It

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Finally, these people are starting to see that the real threat is right here at home along our coastlines and borders!

---------------------------------------------------------
Senate Shifts Iraq Funds to Border Patrols
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Senate voted Wednesday to divert some of the money
President Bush requested for the war in
Iraq to instead increase patrols against illegal immigrants on the nation's borders and provide the Coast Guard with new boats and helicopters.

An amendment cutting Bush's Iraq request by $1.9 billion to pay for new aircraft, patrol boats and other vehicles, as well as border checkpoints and a fence along the Mexico border crossing near San Diego widely used by illegal immigrants was adopted on 59-39 vote.

While the border security funds had sweeping support, Democrats and Republicans argued over whether the cuts to
Pentagon war funds would harm troops on the ground in Iraq. The cuts, offered by Judd Gregg, R-N.H., trim Bush's request for the war by almost 3 percent but don't specify how.

The vote came in the wake of a toughly worded promise by the White House to veto the $106.5 billion measure unless it is cut back to below $95 billion.

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., said Gregg's cuts would "take money from troop pay, body armor and even the joint improvised explosive device defeat fund. Now that is a false choice and it is a wrong choice."

Gregg responded heatedly, arguing that the cuts eventually would come from other parts of the massive Pentagon budget rather than U.S. forces in Iraq.

"To come down here and allege that these funds are going to come out of the needs of the people on the front lines in Iraq or
Afghanistan is pure poppycock," he said.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/m7a47

[Jesterhole]

LOL, sucubbming to political pressure is hardly 'getting it'. Those people focus on whatever the hot topic is in the news to make it look like they are doing good work for the country.

1.9 billion? That's pathetic. We are spending 9 billion A MONTH to enforce security in Iraq.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

LOL, sucubbming to political pressure is hardly 'getting it'. Those people focus on whatever the hot topic is in the news to make it look like they are doing good work for the country.

1.9 billion? That's pathetic. We are spending 9 billion A MONTH to enforce security in Iraq.
It is "getting it" though. Not funding border security is NOT getting it.
There is no one on this board that knows better than I how much we have spent in Iraq and how much it will likely cost overall, I post the numbers on a semi regular basis.

[bendog]

Hillary, the neocon. Be afraid.

[Jesterhole]

What I'm saying is that it's not like some light bulb has gone off in congress. They are just doing the bare minimum to put a good face on it. Kind of like Bushco's proposal to stop filling the national reserve.

[Rascal]

Finally, these people are starting to see that the real threat is right here at home along our coastlines and borders!

---------------------------------------------------------
Senate Shifts Iraq Funds to Border Patrols
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Senate voted Wednesday to divert some of the money
President Bush requested for the war in
Iraq to instead increase patrols against illegal immigrants on the nation's borders and provide the Coast Guard with new boats and helicopters.

An amendment cutting Bush's Iraq request by $1.9 billion to pay for new aircraft, patrol boats and other vehicles, as well as border checkpoints and a fence along the Mexico border crossing near San Diego widely used by illegal immigrants was adopted on 59-39 vote.

While the border security funds had sweeping support, Democrats and Republicans argued over whether the cuts to
Pentagon war funds would harm troops on the ground in Iraq. The cuts, offered by Judd Gregg, R-N.H., trim Bush's request for the war by almost 3 percent but don't specify how.

The vote came in the wake of a toughly worded promise by the White House to veto the $106.5 billion measure unless it is cut back to below $95 billion.

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., said Gregg's cuts would "take money from troop pay, body armor and even the joint improvised explosive device defeat fund. Now that is a false choice and it is a wrong choice."

Gregg responded heatedly, arguing that the cuts eventually would come from other parts of the massive Pentagon budget rather than U.S. forces in Iraq.

"To come down here and allege that these funds are going to come out of the needs of the people on the front lines in Iraq or
Afghanistan is pure poppycork," he said.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/m7a47

LOL!!!

That guy needs to get re-elected while Hillary needs to go back to Bill and ask him what she should have said instead.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What I'm saying is that it's not like some light bulb has gone off in congress. They are just doing the bare minimum to put a good face on it. Kind of like Bushco's proposal to stop filling the national reserve.

Actually, light bulbs are going off, elections are only 6 months away.

[Bronx33]

Actually, light bulbs are going off, elections are only 6 months away.


Thats what scares me, i haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the elections.

[W*GS]

BB, is your ideal a walled-off border with carefully monitored and strictly controlled entry/exit points?

[Rascal]

BB, is your ideal a walled-off border with carefully monitored and strictly controlled entry/exit points?

Throw in some water detection for swimmers and you've got mine.

[bendog]

hmmmm, a deep ditch filled with Croc's. I can see an Animal Planet angle with this. Reality TV with a bite!

And, this could work. Crocs can live in salty water, so we could prolly use some of the pacific ocean, and since water levels are rising, this could be environmentally sold to the green nutters. Plus if it's too salty, we could always use sharks, but the crocs would prolly be better TV entertainment.

[alkemical]

I want an investigation of the % that congress's pay went up over the last 10-15 years.

[Rascal]

I want an investigation of the % that congress's pay went up over the last 10-15 years.

I know that when the civilian area of the DoD gets a raise that congress does also. We got one raise during Clinton, but we received 5 under Bush.

[alkemical]

I know that when the civilian area of the DoD gets a raise that congress does also. We got one raise during Clinton, but we received 5 under Bush.


I didn't know DoD was tied to congressional pay raises....

I think congress should make what the avg. us worker makes per year -

[Rascal]

I didn't know DoD was tied to congressional pay raises....

I think congress should make what the avg. us worker makes per year -

I didn't know that either till I started working here.

I have no problem with that.

[alkemical]

I didn't know that either till I started working here.

I have no problem with that.


heh, as often as congress gets a pay raise these days - i imagine i wouldn't either.

[KillerBronco#76]

You guys this is what i was telling you about in an thread a while back while im sure no one read what i posted , this has been in motion for a while now as in the department of homeland security has hired my grandpa to design borderstations with helecoptor pads and fencing along the U.S.-Mexican and U.S. Canadian border. There has been a plan in place since 2003 to beef up security on the borders. But last time i talked to my gramps about it he said they probley wont start building till around 2008. this may have changed with all the political pressure though.

[Crushaholic]

This is political posturing. The only thing Congress "gets" is that illegal immigration is a hotbutton issue right now (just like the gas prices). Democrats such as Hillary still chime in and get their political jabs at the Republicans...

[alkemical]

You guys this is what i was telling you about in an thread a while back while im sure no one read what i posted , this has been in motion for a while now as in the department of homeland security has hired my grandpa to design borderstations with helecoptor pads and fencing along the U.S.-Mexican and U.S. Canadian border. There has been a plan in place since 2003 to beef up security on the borders. But last time i talked to my gramps about it he said they probley wont start building till around 2008. this may have changed with all the political pressure though.


is it to keep them out, or us in? :)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

BB, is your ideal a walled-off border with carefully monitored and strictly controlled entry/exit points?
My idea of border control involves many things which I have posted here numerous times. After my doing my week of border monitoring last year with the Minutemen, I'm, more than ever, convinced we have to stop the border invasion ASAP and give the Coast Guard everything they need to better patrol our coastlines.

[W*GS]

[...]we have to stop the border invasion ASAP[...]

What does "stop" mean?

A new "Berlin Wall", replete with armed guards and shoot-to-kill orders?

[elsid13]

I didn't know DoD was tied to congressional pay raises....

I think congress should make what the avg. us worker makes per year -


It not, civilian pay raise are part of Appropriations bill that funds OPM, Treasurey,ect. Military and DoD Civilian salaries are paid out of Defense Appropriations Bill. Congress in usually throws in a rider to Defense Appropriations late in night raise their salaries. They do that because no one is going to veto a Defense Appropriations bill.

Rascal - Bush didn't raise your salary it the local Representatives and Senators- Both Parties- from the DC area that ensure that you got your raise, especial Jim Moran.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What does "stop" mean?

A new "Berlin Wall", replete with armed guards and shoot-to-kill orders?
No, like I said it involves many things, enforcing laws (which would, by itself, just about end the invasion) electrical surveillance, fenced areas, increasing border patrol numbers, greatly increasing Coast Guard manpower, equipment and vessel numbers and some type of ID system.

[W*GS]

No, like I said it involves many things, enforcing laws (which would, by itself, just about end the invasion)

"End", or merely add hassle, inconvenience, and (what none of us are willing to pay) cost?

(BTW, the "invasion" rhetoric doesn't help).

electrical surveillance, fenced areas, increasing border patrol numbers, greatly increasing Coast Guard manpower, equipment and vessel numbers and some type of ID system.

You're willing to give up that much liberty for some illusory security?

[Bronx33]

My idea of border control involves many things which I have posted here numerous times. After my doing my week of border monitoring last year with the Minutemen, I'm, more than ever, convinced we have to stop the border invasion ASAP and give the Coast Guard everything they need to better patrol our coastlines.

Really slug you went chipped in on with the minutemen? i commend you.

[Bronx33]

"End", or merely add hassle, inconvenience, and (what none of us are willing to pay) cost?

(BTW, the "invasion" rhetoric doesn't help).



You're willing to give up that much liberty for some illusory security?


Seems to me slug has been there and seen for himself so you are not really qualified to call it rhetoric besides this goes past mexicans this gapping hole in our border can be taken advantage of by others.

[elsid13]

Seems to me slug has been there and seen for himself so you are not really qualified to call it rhetoric besides this goes past mexicans this gapping hole in our border can be taken advantage of by others.


Border defense is the LAST Line of defense from those type of threats. To be truly safe you need to have defense strategy that provides a defense in depth, and that means you must be able to disrupt those activities as far away from the US and it allies as possible or have good internal law enforcement. I would much rather spent the funding on HUMIT sources and improve intelligence gathering.

[Bronx33]

Border defense is the LAST Line of defense from those type of threats. To be truly safe you need to have defense strategy that provides a defense in depth, and that means you must be able to disrupt those activities as far away from the US and it allies as possible or have good internal law enforcement. I would much rather spent the funding on HUMIT sources and improve intelligence gathering.


So if you were a terrorist how would you try to get in? i agree with getting our act together but one has to think about the (now) the terrorist know they are running out of time to get another attack in stateside. I would just hate to see one come in the place everybody thought was the last line of defense.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

"End", or merely add hassle, inconvenience, and (what none of us are willing to pay) cost?
(BTW, the "invasion" rhetoric doesn't help).
You're willing to give up that much liberty for some illusory security?
Cost? Are you kidding? We are spending 5 BILLION a week for Bush's war in Iraq.

Invasion is exactly what it is, 3 to 4 million a MONTH. I watched ranchers fences being cut and torn down and crops trampled.

There's no illusion, al Qaida are being captured crossing our southern borders on almost a monthly basis.

[elsid13]

So if you were a terrorist how would you try to get in? i agree with getting our act together but one has to think about the (now) the terrorist know they are running out of time to get another attack in stateside. I would just hate to see one come in the place everybody thought was the last line of defense.


There are a number of easy ways to get in the US, the land mass is just to big, and we couldn't spend enough money for labor or systems to protect the entire area. It just not techology possible. Example a small zodiac from a tanker off the coast at night would be able to drop a number of individuals onto the beachs at night. No one would know.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

There are a number of easy ways to get in the US, the land mass is just to big, and we couldn't spend enough money for labor or systems to protect the entire area. It just not techology possible. Example a small zodiac from a tanker off the coast at night would be able to drop a number of individuals onto the beachs at night. No one would know.
Not true, with electronic surveillance and high traffic areas patrolled and fenced we limit the areas available for illegally entering the country.

Tankers and freighters are watched very closely and none may enter ICWs without a harbor pilot but the Coast Guard needs more equipment and manpower.

[Bronx33]

Not true, with electronic surveillance and high traffic areas patrolled and fenced we limit the areas available for illegally entering the country.

Tankers and freighters are watched very closely and none may enter ICWs without a harbor pilot but the Coast Guard needs more equipment and manpower.


I would think it's easier to watch a tanker then to watch a border with hundreds of illegals trying daily and nightly it just seems to me the odds of getting in our borders is better through mexico.

[elsid13]

Not true, with electronic surveillance and high traffic areas patrolled and fenced we limit the areas available for illegally entering the country.

Tankers and freighters are watched very closely and none may enter ICWs without a harbor pilot but the Coast Guard needs more equipment and manpower.


Technology fails, it fails alot and the more complex the engineering the better chance Mr. Murphy shows up to have fun with you. So it comes down the human in the loop, and Americans are not willing to pay good salaries to fund folks to stand around 99.9% doing nothing. The first tax cuts and the budget is reduce and number of agents go away. And can not use troops because we have better things for them to do. GAO has number of reports were small secure installations were easly penetrated by trained crews, which they folks will be. IF we can not defend a single building how were to patrol an entire coast line.

Tankers and freighter aren't watched that carefully when the are not enter or exiting ports. It very hard to spot a couple of guys go overboard at easy distant to the shore line at night.

[Bronx33]

I saw address all of it not just part of it.

[elsid13]

I saw address all of it not just part of it.


Not sure what you mean?

[Bronx33]

Not sure what you mean?


Opps... I say address all of it not just part of it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Technology fails, it fails alot and the more complex the engineering the better chance Mr. Murphy shows up to have fun with you. So it comes down the human in the loop, and Americans are not willing to pay good salaries to fund folks to stand around 99.9% doing nothing. The first tax cuts and the budget is reduce and number of agents go away. And can not use troops because we have better things for them to do. GAO has number of reports were small secure installations were easly penetrated by trained crews, which they folks will be. IF we can not defend a single building how were to patrol an entire coast line.

Tankers and freighter aren't watched that carefully when the are not enter or exiting ports. It very hard to spot a couple of guys go overboard at easy distant to the shore line at night.

Americans aren't willing to spend a trillion dollars on Iraq but it's happening in the name of security now isn't it? And what's the better things we are doing with our troops?

We can and do defend single buildings, and airplanes, and trains, etc... Our security is getting better each day. Now it's time to defend our borders and coastlines.

Foreign vessels could be monitored a lot better if the Coast Guard had the resources they desire and need.

[Cito Pelon]

I'd be pretty surprised if a Mexican coyote would guide an Al-Queda guy across the border. He'd stand out so badly, he'd either be refused or mre likely rolled, or held hostage for money. Those border towns are tough as nails, and since the Mexican authorities in those border jumpoff towns are heavily involved in smuggling, they'd grab any suspected Al-Quaeda guy fast and either sell him to a higher authority, or just imprison him until they could. The Mexicans play tough, and I don't think they like Mohammedans a lot. In fact, I bet they try to sell a lot of people to US authorities as suspected terrorists.

Could be a slick way of Al-queda to inundate US authorities in Mexico to overlook real Al-queda people. Misdirection/misinformation.

W*gs might know about that, he's an Al-Queda misinformation/misdirection plant on this board, and probably is on quite a few other boards.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

W*gs might know about that, he's an Al-Queda misinformation/misdirection plant on this board, and probably is on quite a few other boards.

???

[broncocalijohn]

What does "stop" mean?

A new "Berlin Wall", replete with armed guards and shoot-to-kill orders?

they wont have to shoot. Double wall, electric fence on top, camera monitors and border patrol inside and outside walls. California is proposing a measure (proposition) to pay for it along our cali border ourselves since the fed wont pay for the prisoners (30% are illegal) and other high cost expenditures. Whatever it takes. Minuteman brought this problem to the forefront. I voted for Gilchrist in November to replace outgoing Chris Cox. Dude got 25% of the vote as a 3rd party. People are pissed and once others get run over by the illegals in their neck of the country, it might be too late to bitch. BTW: W*GS Nice political pandering crap on "berlin wall" . I know the pro illegal crowd brings this up but they missed one thing; Berlin wall was to keep you inside not our wall that will keep others from entering. But nice try.

[broncocalijohn]

I'd be pretty surprised if a Mexican coyote would guide an Al-Queda guy across the border. He'd stand out so badly, he'd either be refused or mre likely rolled, or held hostage for money. Those border towns are tough as nails, and since the Mexican authorities in those border jumpoff towns are heavily involved in smuggling, they'd grab any suspected Al-Quaeda guy fast and either sell him to a higher authority, or just imprison him until they could. The Mexicans play tough, and I don't think they like Mohammedans a lot. In fact, I bet they try to sell a lot of people to US authorities as suspected terrorists.

Where do you get this crap? They have already found Muslim religious crap on private property along the border. It has been reported that Muslim men are getting the "mexican" look to blend in with their last names. ALSO REPORTED the mexican army has helped illegals and drug smugglers on OUR SIDE OF THE BORDER! Wake up as they dont care about that crap. Just get their workers to our side so they can send the old mighty dollar back to Mexico.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'd be pretty surprised if a Mexican coyote would guide an Al-Queda guy across the border. He'd stand out so badly, he'd either be refused or mre likely rolled, or held hostage for money. Those border towns are tough as nails, and since the Mexican authorities in those border jumpoff towns are heavily involved in smuggling, they'd grab any suspected Al-Quaeda guy fast and either sell him to a higher authority, or just imprison him until they could. The Mexicans play tough, and I don't think they like Mohammedans a lot. In fact, I bet they try to sell a lot of people to US authorities as suspected terrorists.

Could be a slick way of Al-queda to inundate US authorities in Mexico to overlook real Al-queda people. Misdirection/misinformation.

W*gs might know about that, he's an Al-Queda misinformation/misdirection plant on this board, and probably is on quite a few other boards.

Yeah, right.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Does unfettered illegal immigration from Mexico increased America's vulnerability to a major terrorist attack on our soil? Or is this argument a red herring cooked up by anti-Latino xenophobes to serve an anti-immigrant agenda ...

From the Tombstone Tumbleweed (hehe love the name) we get this little gem:

... seasoned Border Patrol field agents have shared some disturbing information with the Tumbleweed as well as other civilian sources with the hope the information will make it to the general public.

The Tumbleweed has verified information that a flood of middle-eastern males have been caught entering the country illegally east of Douglas, Arizona. ...

For reasons of National security, Adame said his agency cannot talk about the origin of nationaity, however Adame says that since October 1, 2003, the beginning of the fiscal year for Border Patrol, agents in the Tucson sector have apprehended 5,510 illegals from countries other than Mexico or other central or South American countries. Adame described them as “people from all over the world”.

From the Brownsville Herald we get this nice comforting comment:

Middle Easterners with possible terrorist ties have been detained after entering the country from Mexico but released for lack of jail space, said U.S. Rep. Solomon P. Ortiz, the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Readiness.

“It is true. It is very reliable information, from the horse’s mouth, and it’s happening all over the place,” Ortiz, D-Texas, told The Herald on Thursday.

“It’s very, very scary, and members (of Congress) know about this. We have contacted several agencies, and I have talked to some people, but I can’t say who.”

Over here we get some more good news:

Congressman John Culberson (R - TX), speaking on the John and Ken show in Los Angeles, tells the hosts that he's now authorized, for the first time anywhere, to disclose that Middle Eastern men with Al Qaeda links have been mixing with the stream of illegal aliens coming in via the Southern US border.

Having changed their names from Islamic to Hispanic ones, and having obtained authentic Mexican Matricula Consular ID cards using faked Mexican birth certificates, the men are paying up to $30,000 to obtain entry into the US among the flow of Hispanic illegal aliens crossing.

From ABC news we hear this:

The FBI has arrested an American citizen living in Queens said to be a sleeper agent for Al Qaeda. ... The man has told investigators that Al Qaeda is planning more attacks in the United States. He has also revealed a scheme to smuggle terrorists across the Mexican border.
http://tinyurl.com/kjv84


-----------------------------------------------------------
FBI Warns of 'Special Interest' Aliens
WASHINGTON (AP) - FBI Director Robert Mueller told Congress on Tuesday that people from countries with ties to al-Qaida have crossed into the United States from Mexico, using false identities.

"We are concerned, Homeland Security is concerned about special interest aliens entering the United States," Mueller said, using a term for people from countries where al-Qaida is known to be active.

Read the latest headlines about illegal immigration.

Under persistent questioning from Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas, Mueller said he was aware of one route that takes people to Brazil, where they assume false identities, and then to Mexico before crossing the U.S. border.
http://tinyurl.com/qvpn9

----------------------------------------------------------

Mexico's blind eye
to al-Qaida activity
Intel sources see porous border
posing major terror threat to U.S.

Al-Qaida "communities," like the one busted in Lodi, Calif., have direct ties to other networks in Mexico and Central America, where jihadi terrorists are not viewed as a local threat, reports Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

"South of the Rio Grande Valley there exists a dire situation," said an intelligence researcher who took part in an academic meeting in west Canada.

Intelligence sources and researchers agree there is hardly any effective cooperation between the Department of Homeland Security and the intelligence establishment of Mexico's President Vicente Fox.
http://tinyurl.com/zxbz3

--------------------------------------------------------
Al-Qaida Operative Nabbed Near Mexican Border
An al-Qaida operative who was on the FBI's terrorist watch list was recently captured near the Mexican border, housed in a Texas jail and turned over to federal agents, Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas, said on Friday.

"A confirmed al-Qaida terrorist, an Iraqi national, was held in the Brewster County jail," Rep. Culberson told ABC Radio host Sean Hannity. "He was captured in Mexico. This was within the last six weeks. He was turned over to the FBI."

The Texas Republican said he obtained the stunning information about the terrorist's capture "from the sheriffs who were directly involved.
http://tinyurl.com/7bxx9

-----------------------------------------------------
Latin America on Alert for Terror
By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ

MONTERREY, Mexico (AP) - Governments throughout Mexico and Central America are on alert as evidence grows that al-Qaida members are traveling in the region and looking for recruits to carry out attacks in Latin America - the potential last frontier for international terrorism.

The territory could be a perfect staging ground for Osama bin Laden's militants, with homegrown rebel groups, drug and people smugglers, and corrupt governments. U.S. officials have long feared al-Qaida could launch an attack from south of the border, and they have been paying closer attention as the number of terror-related incidents has increased since last year.

The strongest possible al-Qaida link is Adnan G. El Shukrijumah, a 29-year-old Saudi pilot suspected of being a terrorist cell leader. The FBI issued a border-wide alert earlier this month for Shukrijumah, saying he may try to cross into Arizona or Texas.
http://tinyurl.com/rolgq

----------------------------------------------------------
Al-Qaida May Use Mexico to Smuggle Nukes
Law officers on both sides of the borders are on edge as Mexico is named as the preferred al-Qaida route to launch a WMD attack on the American homeland, according to a report in Time magazine.

Two weeks ago a crop-duster aircraft was stolen south of San Diego by three men from southern Mexico who assaulted a watchman and then flew off in a southerly direction. The still-missing plane can be used to disperse toxic substances and is just one episode that has captured the attention of officials.

Sharif al-Masri, an Egyptian who was captured in late August near Pakistan's border with Iran and Afghanistan, has told his interrogators that al-Qaida has considered plans to "smuggle nuclear materials to Mexico, then operatives would carry material into the U.S," according to the Time report.
http://tinyurl.com/mnn4a

--------------------------------------------------------
Congresswoman: Three Al Qaeda Caught in U.S. After Crossing Border with Mexico
Wednesday, November 9, 2005 | Kristinn

Rep. Sue Myrick (R-N.C.) let slip a bombshell disclosure at a news conference today to announce a bill targeting states that allow illegal aliens to get drivers licenses.

During the Q&A with reporters, Myrick gave as a reason for proposing the bill the recent capture of three al Qaeda terrorists at the U.S.-Mexico border.
A check of Google News turned up no references to this incident, yet Myrick stated this was a 'given fact.'
http://tinyurl.com/k8nyk

--------------------------------------------------------------

[W*GS]

Cost? Are you kidding? We are spending 5 BILLION a week for Bush's war in Iraq.

I'm talking the increased labor costs which will be passed along to consumers.

Invasion is exactly what it is, 3 to 4 million a MONTH.

Not all different people, of course, as there are not 36 million - 48 million people entering the US illegally every year.

There's no illusion, al Qaida are being captured crossing our southern borders on almost a monthly basis.

I've not seen indepenent objective verification of that. Don't believe self-aggrandizing puffery every time it comes in your inbox.

[W*GS]

W*gs might know about that, he's an Al-Queda misinformation/misdirection plant on this board, and probably is on quite a few other boards.

Still stinging after that exquisite "Risk" shot (straight to your gut), I see.

You're funny, Cito.

[Rascal]

Not true, with electronic surveillance and high traffic areas patrolled and fenced we limit the areas available for illegally entering the country.

Tankers and freighters are watched very closely and none may enter ICWs without a harbor pilot but the Coast Guard needs more equipment and manpower.

Yeah because terroists are going to enter through a harbor.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm talking the increased labor costs which will be passed along to consumers.
You don't think War costs are passed along to "consumers"?

Not all different people, of course, as there are not 36 million - 48 million people entering the US illegally every year.
I misspoke, it's a year but the analogy holds.

I've not seen indepenent objective verification of that. Don't believe self-aggrandizing puffery every time it comes in your inbox.
Don't be an ass. Do you actually think I use emailed Newsmax lore and legend for sources?
I live here, it's happening, just because you don't have the Bush administration affirming it doesn't mean it isn't.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Intelligence: Middle Easterners on U.S.-Mexico Border
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Congressman Solomon P. Ortiz today hosted members of the U.S. House Select Committee on Homeland Security in the Rio Grande Valley to hear from front line law enforcement officers about the growing danger of terrorists breaching the southern border of the United States, aided in part by the government policy of releasing illegal immigrants who are “Other than Mexican,” or “OTMs” into the general population of the United States.

Members of the House of Representatives hosted by Ortiz today included Texas Reps. Jim Turner, Ranking Member of the U.S. House Select Committee on Homeland Security, and Sheila Jackson Lee, a member of both the Select Committee on Homeland Security and the House Judiciary Committee.

Ortiz has been sounding the alarm about this matter since late July. In early August, Ortiz and Congressman Henry Bonilla (R-TX) sent a letter to President George W. Bush and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge protesting the policy and asking a series of pointed questions. There has been no response to the letter.

Ortiz’ statement follows:

"The security of our borders is the most bi-partisan of issues … the co-chairs of the House Border Caucus, my colleague Henry Bonilla and myself, first raised the issue with the President earlier in August. This is an American issue, we all have a stake in this.

As a former sheriff, I have a unique appreciation of law enforcement matters, and the lawmen that uphold this nation’s laws. Imagine the look on my face when these lawmen began coming to me to tell me these facts: We have been releasing the illegal immigrants we’ve been catching into border communities, and we could have let the bad guys in with them.

Our SW border is profoundly unsecured … and the policies of the Department of Homeland Security have made the border communities - and the nation - more vulnerable at a dangerous time. When I first began hearing from our border security officers in the early summer, I was nauseated, skeptical, and frightened for my constituents in a whole new way … and I did what cops always do - I started investigating.

What is embarrassingly - terrifyingly - clear is this: we do not now have the space to hold illegal immigrants when we catch them, so we give them a “notice to appear” - a letter allowing them to travel anywhere in the U.S. while they await a deportation hearing. Now, if you come in illegally in the first place, are you really going to come back for your deportation hearing?

Understand that we are not talking about illegal immigrants we have not caught - we don’t know who we haven’t caught…. What we are talking about here today is entirely about people we have caught and then released. For a cop, it’s a special sin to have caught people breaking the law … then let them go. We have been hearing reports, both from law enforcement and in news reports, that al Queda is now operating in Central America.

Now that information is confirmed … we know from El Salvadoran law enforcement that al Queda is meeting with violent gang leaders in El Salvador. We have also had reports that Middle Easterners have been sighted on the banks of the Rio Grande. This would be a dangerous, new development of international criminal enterprises to expand the al Queda threat to non-Islamic forces, and it should be examined more fully by law enforcement and intelligence forces.

Today we have talked to the federal officials to help us understand the enormity of the problem, and to see what it is they need. Currently, our OTM policy is nothing more than a conduit for terrorists … it is a flawed system … it is profoundly wrong and needs to be corrected. Only after the policy has ended, can we begin to sort out exactly how much danger people and places inside the U.S. face as a result of this policy, and this large abdication of responsibility for border security.

The terrifying fact of this scandal is the inattention to the business of security at our borders, while Americans die in Afghanistan and Iraq in the “war on terror.” The U.S. is spending billions upon billions to prosecute the “war on terror,” but have treated this particular security breach with almost criminal neglect.

By issuing travel papers to OMTs - we are welcoming the lawbreakers we catch at the border, then providing them a driver to the bus station … all on the skeptical hope they will return for a deportation hearing. In addition to providing free passage to illegals from “Special Interest” countries, the agents drive these OTMs to their next step of legal passage in the U.S. leave their post open on the border … making it all the more unprotected.

We won’t know the extent of this until we investigate the next terrorist attack. Those of us here, the Members of Congress, are concerned for 3 basic reasons:

1. Our constituents, family and friends live here in Texas, where these folks are being released,
2. Our offices in DC are across the street from a central target for terrorists,
3. And our nation remains at risk from terrorists … and even still our gov’t policies work to - however unwillingly - let terrorists in all over again.

We specifically have a list of countries that are of “special interest” to the U.S. We’re being told that we are getting OTMs from countries of “special interest” at a rate of 15-30 at a time. We’ve also heard that bad guys are recruiting Brazilians with passports to take them to U.S., who then look for BP agents to get processed … that we’re averaging 1,000-1,500 OTM releases like this a month … they (OTMs) are taken to the bus station for travel.

There are some things we can offer as solutions immediately:

* Change the OTM policy immediately, then quantify how much damage has been done
* We need more beds to house those we detain
* Bring in civilians to help BP with the clerical work they now have to do so they can be out there doing what they do best, protecting America’s borders."

# # #

SPECIAL INTEREST COUNTRIES:

List of “Special Interest” countries (subjected to IDENT procedures - additional security checks - before entering the U.S) include:

Algeria, Afghanistan, Angola, Argentina, Armenia,
Bahrain, Bhutan, Brazil,
Congo, Cyprus, Democratic Republic of Congo,
Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia,
Georgia,
India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel,
Jordan,
Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan,
Lebanon, Liberia,
Malaysia, Mongolia, Morocco, Myanmar,
Nepal,
Oman,
Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Philippines,
Qatar,
Republic of Yemen (Sanaa),
Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria,
Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan,
United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Uzbekistan,
Venezuela, Yemen
http://tinyurl.com/ma666

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah because terroists are going to enter through a harbor.

The scarecrow shows up again, what's up?

And just for you, freighters and tankers are stopped OFFSHORE then are piloted in by US captains.

[Rascal]

The scarecrow shows up again, what's up?

And just for you, freighters and tankers are stopped OFFSHORE then are piloted in by US captains.

No **** sherlock. What makes you think that the terroists are going to bother to even try entering the country that way?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No **** sherlock. What makes you think that the terroists are going to bother to even try entering the country that way?
Hilarious!
Youre' reading comprehension is AMAZING!!!!!

[Rascal]

Hilarious!
Youre' reading comprehension is AMAZING!!!!!

You are an idiot.

Why would the terroists bother to go through the ports when they have thousands of costline where they can bring a small boat into port quite easily.

I've sailed a good amount, and I've gone from Texas to Mexico and back without even coming close to any kind of authorities. If I'm a terroists the last thing I do is try to enter via freighters or tankers. I get on a small boat through Canada or Mexico and enter unopposed via a remote coastline...hell it doesn't even have to be remote.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You are an idiot.

Why would the terroists bother to go through the ports when they have thousands of costline where they can bring a small boat into port quite easily.

I've sailed a good amount, and I've gone from Texas to Mexico and back without even coming close to any kind of authorities.

Does only half your mind work on a particular day? Who said anything about terrorists using ports to enter the country?

[Rascal]

You can't even follow your own conversation. Next time you insult somebody's reading comprehension I suggest you back to school and learn how to do it yourself.

Elsid said, "There are a number of easy ways to get in the US, the land mass is just to big"

To which you responded, "Not true, with electronic surveillance and high traffic areas patrolled and fenced we limit the areas available for illegally entering the country.

Tankers and freighters are watched very closely and none may enter ICWs without a harbor pilot but the Coast Guard needs more equipment and manpower."

I found your comment laughable so I posted, "Yeah because terrorists are going to enter through a harbor."

In case that isn't clear enough for you let me put it in simpleton language. Why would a terrorists enter the country via a high traffic area? THEY WOULDN'T!!!! AND THEY SURE AS HELL WOULD BE SMARTER TO GO VIA A SMALL BOAT THEN ENTER VIA A FREIGHTER OR TANKER.

Seriously Slug, you come off as a smart guy but this is borderline moronic.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You can't even follow your own conversation. Next time you insult somebody's reading comprehension I suggest you back to school and learn how to do it yourself.

Elsid said, "There are a number of easy ways to get in the US, the land mass is just to big"

To which you responded, "Not true, with electronic surveillance and high traffic areas patrolled and fenced we limit the areas available for illegally entering the country.

Tankers and freighters are watched very closely and none may enter ICWs without a harbor pilot but the Coast Guard needs more equipment and manpower."

I found your comment laughable so I posted, "Yeah because terroists are going to enter through a harbor."

In case that isn't clear enough for you let me put it in simpleton language. Why would a terroists enter the country via a high traffic area? THEY WOULDN'T!!!! AND THEY SURE AS HELL WOULD BE SMARTER TO GO VIA A SMALL BOAT THEN ENTER VIA A FREIGHTER OR TANKER.

Hey Einstein, where in there did I suggest terrorists are going to enter through a port?

Your "Johnny come lately" post missed the initial point I responded to which was terrorists would use tankers to attack us.

!

[Rascal]

Hey Einstein, where in there did I suggest terrorists are going to enter through a port?

Your "Johnny come lately" post missed the initial point I responded to which was terrorists would use tankers to attack us.

!

OMG!!!

You bolded the statement you were referring to (which was the part I included)!!!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

OMG!!!

You bolded the statement you were referring to (which was the part I included)!!!

LOL

I should've just answered your first post with the below and ignored you after that.:rofl:



http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5603/notthis7dc.jpg

[elsid13]

OK let me clarify my point, I didn't mean that tankers or freighter would attack us. I might that they would be used as transport platform to enable a small group to get on shore. Think UDT/SEAL delivery, something that can be done, and has been done since WW2. IT is impossible to spot a man size object going overboard 10 miles off the coast unless your real lucky. Second you couldn't design a system that wouldn't give false positive every ten minutes- you wear your security force out. Security is as good as weakest link. It all about risk management.

So back to my original statement I rather spend money on Human Intelligence, improve the IC analyst capability, and strength internal law enforcement information access and collaboration then spending money on building the Iron Curtain Part 2.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

OK let me clarify my point, I didn't mean that tankers or freighter would attack us. I might that they would be used as transport platform to enable a small group to get on shore. Think UDT/SEAL delivery, something that can be done, and has been done since WW2. IT is impossible to spot a man size object going overboard 10 miles off the coast unless your real lucky. Second you couldn't design a system that wouldn't give false positive every ten minutes- you wear your security force out. Security is as good as weakest link. It all about risk management.

So back to my original statement I rather spend money on Human Intelligence, improve the IC analyst capability, and strength internal law enforcement information access and collaboration then spending money on building the Iron Curtain Part 2.
I understand your point 100%! And agree that that removing ourselves from the any interests in the ME and other places that hate Americans, and improving intelligence, etc... is important but so is adding more resources for border and coastline security. It ALL needs to be done.

[elsid13]

I understand your point 100%! And agree that that removing ourselves from the any interests in the ME and other places that hate Americans, and improving intelligence, etc... is important but so is adding more resources for border and coastline security. It ALL needs to be done.


But it cannot be done- it a resource issue. Think trade off between bread and butter stuff. At one point in other thread, I actual figure how much it would cost to higher another 100,000 border guards and the number just unbelievable. So with limited resource available would you rather build the last line of defense that most likely will be cracked or spend that money on something that likier chance of success?

And I don't believe that we should abandon the ME or anywhere in the world. That gives Al Qaeda what they want. I am more for pushing economic then democratic reform in those gap nations, while pushing the new and old core world to help create a legal stable system.

PS I wasn't trying to patronize you with my last post.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

But it cannot be done- it a resource issue. Think trade off between bread and butter stuff. At one point in other thread, I actual figure how much it would cost to higher another 100,000 border guards and the number just unbelievable. So with limited resource available would you rather build the last line of defense that most likely will be cracked or spend that money on something that likier chance of success?

And I don't believe that we should abandon the ME or anywhere in the world. That gives Al Qaeda what they want. I am more for pushing economic then democratic reform in those gap nations, while pushing the new and old core world to help create a legal stable system.

PS I wasn't trying to patronize you with my last post.

I believe we should lose all oil interests in the ME post haste. that would go along way towards toning down the hatred we are experiencing now. We are spending 5 billion a week in the failed Iraqi experiment. The total bill will be well over a trillion dollars. For a fraction of that we can improve security on our borders and coastlines 10 times over. But the biggest thing is enforcing laws we already have. Once we do that the invasion of this country will dry up to a trickle.

I didn't take as patronizing :)