Packers and Broncos talks heating up once more.

[Requiem]

UPDATE

Here's an update on the situation: (FROM TSN WAR ROOM SCOUT)

About a half hour ago I had the chance to speak to source very close to the Broncos. I'll go on record now as saying this is one of those guys that you can place you reputation in his hands.

As I reported earlier, the Broncos are in heavy discussions with the Packers trying to conjure up a deal that would bring Javon Walker to Denver. This deal really seems to be more 2 part then it looks on the surface.

The Broncos have a real love fest going on for Vernon Davis and are doing everything and anything in their power to jump ahead of the Raiders who they believe will take Davis and give them a dangerous group of receivers and even the 49ers who have been said to be very interested.

I was told the Broncos could have landed Walker by now as GB and Denver have virtually agreed on the details of a trade but Denver has soured after GB pulled a more complex deal involving a swap of 1st round picks off the table.

I was basically told every move Denver has made to this point was to position themselves to move up into the top 6 of this draft. If that includes acquiring Walker along the way they consider it icing on the cake. The trade with SF to acquire extra day 1 picks was all part of the plan as it's believed Denver will use those picks as ammunition to move up along with Lelie.

The bottom line is, expect Denver to acquire Walker but not at the cost of losing out on Vernon Davis. If a deal can't be reached with GB by Thursday that includes the 5th pick then you can expect Denver to turn their attention to the Jets who have already made contact with the Broncos about moving up. The Jets with 2 first round pick would love to move back and acquire additional picks for what they are calling a minor rebuilding process.

When I aksed him what he thought would finally happen he seemed to think in the end the price to move into the top 5 will be to steep but he also cautioned that Denver has made Davis priority #1 from the day they started their off season program and not to be surprised if Denver sells the farm to make it happen. He said at this time he's leaning towards Walker being a Bronco but not at the cost of the 15th pick but something less. Something in the range of 2nd and 3rd rounder or 2nd rounder with a future pick. If Denver is giving up their 15th it's only going to be in a move that will land them Vernon Davis.



From the same TSN Scout that posted the news on Jimmy Williams, he has also received word on several possible deals regarding the Packers and the Broncos.

DEAL #1:
Denver receives: Javon Walker, #5
Green Bay receives: Ashley Lelie, #15 and a second rounder. (No mention of which, I'd guess #37)

Green Bay allegedly is holding up this deal because they're looking for an extra second-day selection(s).


DEAL #2:
Denver Receives: Javon Walker, #36
Green Bay Receives: #15 Overall.

Lelie isn't involved in this trade, which is interesting. I like this deal a lot. We move back, get a receiver and have back to back picks (36 and 37) in Round Two. That's nice.

Just posted fresh today, I'll try and talk to him in private about this and get more information and I'll keep you guys updated, I know you love it!

[Clockwork Orange]

I'd take either one of those.

[ro_50]

If It were me, I would not like to give up that first round pick.

I think the first one is a bit more fair for my taste.

[Hotrod]

Sign me up for deal #1 please. We swap WR's move up 10 spots in the 1st round get VD and only give up a 2nd. I'd **** myself ;D

[Requiem]

I also bought a web cam today guys, so maybe I'll be like that Jets kid and start doing broadcasts live from my dorm. Wait, I'll do one right now!

[GonzoLays]

For the love of God if Deal One is true just send them the second day pick and get it over with. What in the hell is that fourth or fifth rounder going to do for us? Half the time they don't even make the team.

[Ratboy]

I'm torn on this, Both trades are intruiging.

[Requiem]

Sign me up for deal #1 please. We swap WR's move up 10 spots in the 1st round get VD and only give up a 2nd. I'd **** myself ;D

I'd have to say it's #37, but it's still decent value. I guess Green Bay likes the idea of having back-to-back picks better than having #15 and #22 and getting a receiver out of the deal as well who could be just what they need. Like I said, if I hear anything new -- I'll let you all know!

[KipCorrington25]

Deal 1 yes
Deal 2 no

[Ratboy]

I also bought a web cam today guys, so maybe I'll be like that Jets kid and start doing broadcasts live from my dorm. Wait, I'll do one right now!

:rofl:

[ro_50]

For the love of God if Deal One is true just send them the second day pick and get it over with. What in the hell is that fourth or fifth rounder going to do for us? Half the time they don't even make the team.


You are right on the second day picks.

[BroncoInferno]

For the love of God if Deal One is true just send them the second day pick and get it over with. What in the hell is that fourth or fifth rounder going to do for us? Half the time they don't even make the team.

Hell yeah, I agree, give them one of our 4ths and get that deal done. We'll still have two 4ths to play with, plus we'll be able to land VD! Walker+VD=Instant offense!!

[RhymesayersDU]

Deal #1.




Sorry SoCal... :(

[ro_50]

All this talk is making me sick to my stomach. Just get something done, I cant wait till Saturday.

[Man-Goblin]

For the love of God if Deal One is true just send them the second day pick and get it over with. What in the hell is that fourth or fifth rounder going to do for us? Half the time they don't even make the team.

Absolutely. I would give both tradable fourths for that deal. Get it done.

[Ratboy]

I like the first one, but i'm not sure i want Shanahan getting ahold of it. He would probably screw up and take Vince Young.

[Hotrod]

All this talk is making me sick to my stomach. Just get something done, I cant wait till Saturday.

ditto

[DomCasual]

I also bought a web cam today guys, so maybe I'll be like that Jets kid and start doing broadcasts live from my dorm. Wait, I'll do one right now!
That would be sweet. Have you picked a blanket to hang as a backdrop?

[RhymesayersDU]

I like the first one, but i'm not sure i want Shanahan getting ahold of it. He would probably screw up and take Vince Young.
Ummm... I don't think "screw up" and "make the best decision ever" mean the same thing.

I'm sure you meant the latter.

[Hotrod]

I like the first one, but i'm not sure i want Shanahan getting ahold of it. He would probably screw up and take Vince Young.

There is 100% chance that if this happend VD would be the target :yep:

[ludo21]

Deal 1, please... if all thats holding up the deal is a 2nd day pick, DO IT!!!

Its robbery sure, but still!!

[Requiem]

I think if any deal happens, it'll be the second one. Denver gets their receiver, moves down from a spot that they would probably have to reach for a player, but has back-to-back picks in the second round. Just for fun here, how about this for a draft.

#36 - Mathias Kiwanuka
#37 - Marcedes Lewis
#61 - John McCargo
#68 - BPA (Perhaps a wide-out)
Javon Walker
_______________

I like that first day better than anything I can come up with our picks right now.

[Hotrod]

Ummm... I don't think "screw up" and "make the best decision ever" mean the same thing.

I'm sure you meant the latter.

LOL not happening ;D

[Clockwork Orange]

There is 100% chance that if this happend VD would be the target :yep:

I wouldn't say 100%. A QB could very well be the target if they move up.

[Requiem]

That would be sweet. Have you picked a blanket to hang as a backdrop?

No, but I do have a Denver Broncos flag, and you can see my loft-bed with blue covers and my bottom bed with orange sheets and covers. Does that work out!?

[12th man]

From the same TSN Scout that posted the news on Jimmy Williams, he has also received word on several possible deals regarding the Packers and the Broncos.

DEAL #1:
Denver receives: Javon Walker, #5
Green Bay receives: Ashley Lelie, #15 and a second rounder. (No mention of which, I'd guess #37)

Green Bay allegedly is holding up this deal because they're looking for an extra second-day selection(s).


DEAL #2:
Denver Receives: Javon Walker, #36
Green Bay Receives: #15 Overall.

Lelie isn't involved in this trade, which is interesting. I like this deal a lot. We move back, get a receiver and have back to back picks (36 and 37) in Round Two. That's nice.

Just posted fresh today, I'll try and talk to him in private about this and get more information and I'll keep you guys updated, I know you love it!
I like both deals, but I like the first one more. we get a higher first round pick and Walker, and only have to give up a second round pick. the second choice is good because, we get walker, still get a good second round pick, and still keep Lelie. with this option, Lelei can stay and be probably the number three wr, and he would be good here, cause he will be in a contract year, and working with Dinger, or we can trade him to another team, for some more draft picks or anoter player, or whatever. either way, both are pretty good options.

[DomCasual]

No, but I do have a Denver Broncos flag, and you can see my loft-bed with blue covers and my bottom bed with orange sheets and covers. Does that work out!?
Sure. The matching bedding is a nice touch.

[Clockwork Orange]

I think if any deal happens, it'll be the second one. Denver gets their receiver, moves down from a spot that they would probably have to reach for a player, but has back-to-back picks in the second round. Just for fun here, how about this for a draft.

#36 - Mathias Kiwanuka
#37 - Marcedes Lewis
#61 - John McCargo
#68 - BPA (Perhaps a wide-out)
Javon Walker
_______________

I like that first day better than anything I can come up with our picks right now.

I'd be thrilled with that. Absolutely thrilled.

[Ratboy]

I think if any deal happens, it'll be the second one. Denver gets their receiver, moves down from a spot that they would probably have to reach for a player, but has back-to-back picks in the second round. Just for fun here, how about this for a draft.

#36 - Mathias Kiwanuka
#37 - Marcedes Lewis
#61 - John McCargo
#68 - BPA (Perhaps a wide-out)
Javon Walker
_______________

I like that first day better than anything I can come up with our picks right now.

I like this a lot better, i don't like the draft, but i do like the picks.

Plus we now have Rod Smith, Ashley Lelie, and Javon Walker.

[Requiem]

I just received word that an update should be available sometime after 6:00 PM tonight as the TSN War Room members will meet and share notes and divulge any more information. I'm so glad I don't have to pay for this. :D

[Clockwork Orange]

We could also get.....

36. Tamba Hali
37. Leonard Pope
61. Claude Wroten

Lot of options with those picks.

[ro_50]

I just received word that an update should be available sometime after 6:00 PM tonight as the TSN War Room members will meet and share notes and divulge any more information. I'm so glad I don't have to pay for this. :D


6 PM EASTERN TIME??????

[jrmarden]

Think about this for deal 2..

you would move from 15-36 to get a reciever who is coming off an ACL and is going to command a huge salary? Draft 15, we get hopefully a solid player for 5 years at about maybe 10 million. Javon will want 6-7 million a year and a large signing bonus and how good will he be next year.. terrible trade in my opinion.

brings me to trade #1.. There is no way we grab a TE with the 5th overall with the quality of TEs available in this draft.. No Way! and pay VD all that money, more than Tony or Antonio.. It smoke and mirrors... If we go up to 5 it is to grab a qb.. Matt or Vince. Shanny knows you do not go to the next level without a quality qb. I love the snake, but i do think we need to upgrade the position if we want to go further in the playoffs..

[ludo21]

I just received word that an update should be available sometime after 6:00 PM tonight as the TSN War Room members will meet and share notes and divulge any more information. I'm so glad I don't have to pay for this. :D


wOOOOO!!!!

Excellent, im getting excited!! :strong:

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I wouldn't touch Deal 2 unless Green Bay threw in their 3rd. #2 values Walker as a high 2nd, and he's simply not worth that much when you factor in his desire for a new deal and because he's coming off of a torn ACL. Adding the 3rd gives Walker a late 2nd value.

You take Deal 1, even if they have to throw in a 4th, and you run away as fast as you can before you're prosecuted for theft.

[BroncoInferno]

I like this a lot better, i don't like the draft, but i do like the picks.

Plus we now have Rod Smith, Ashley Lelie, and Javon Walker.

If we get Walker, Lelie will not be a Bronco in '06. If we did the second deal, we'd probably trade Lelie to the highest bidder. I think realistically we could get a 3rd rounder for him.

[ro_50]

Think about this for deal 2..

you would move from 15-36 to get a reciever who is coming off an ACL and is going to command a huge salary? Draft 15, we get hopefully a solid player for 5 years at about maybe 10 million. Javon will want 6-7 million a year and a large signing bonus and how good will he be next year.. terrible trade in my opinion.

brings me to trade #1.. There is no way we grab a TE with the 5th overall with the quality of TEs available in this draft.. No Way! and pay VD all that money, more than Tony or Antonio.. It smoke and mirrors... If we go up to 5 it is to grab a qb.. Matt or Vince. Shanny knows you do not go to the next level without a quality qb. I love the snake, but i do think we need to upgrade the position if we want to go further in the playoffs..

Nothing wrong with your post, but this Denver team is looking to win now and if they traded up that far to get a QB like a Cutler or Young, that QB is not going to start next season or even perhaps the year after.

Them taking a playmaker like Michael Huff in the secondary or Vernon Davis makes sense to me because they are looking for immediate contributors than having someone hold a clipboard for a year or two.

But then again, thats just my take, I dont see Denver trading up that high to take a quarterback to develop doesnt matter how good they are going to become because this team is in a position to win now.

[Requiem]

Ro, I'm not sure if it's Eastern/Central time, but we'll see. He'll let me know on any further developments and I'll relay them to you guys. TSN is usually pretty accurate.

[Ratboy]

Leinart and Young suck balls.

[Jens1893]

I´d love either.

Pull the trigger, Mike.

[Hotrod]

Think about this for deal 2..

you would move from 15-36 to get a reciever who is coming off an ACL and is going to command a huge salary? Draft 15, we get hopefully a solid player for 5 years at about maybe 10 million. Javon will want 6-7 million a year and a large signing bonus and how good will he be next year.. terrible trade in my opinion.

brings me to trade #1.. There is no way we grab a TE with the 5th overall with the quality of TEs available in this draft.. No Way! and pay VD all that money, more than Tony or Antonio.. It smoke and mirrors... If we go up to 5 it is to grab a qb.. Matt or Vince. Shanny knows you do not go to the next level without a quality qb. I love the snake, but i do think we need to upgrade the position if we want to go further in the playoffs..

Wrong you take a playmaker like VD add Walker and you laugh all the way to the SB :yep:

[clint7]

For the love of God if Deal One is true just send them the second day pick and get it over with. What in the hell is that fourth or fifth rounder going to do for us? Half the time they don't even make the team.

Good Lord, no kidding. Second day pick....here ya go! It's all yours. Adios.

[bendog]

the 15th pick for a guy with one good year and one ACL. F that.

[12th man]

Think about this for deal 2..

you would move from 15-36 to get a reciever who is coming off an ACL and is going to command a huge salary? Draft 15, we get hopefully a solid player for 5 years at about maybe 10 million. Javon will want 6-7 million a year and a large signing bonus and how good will he be next year.. terrible trade in my opinion.

brings me to trade #1.. There is no way we grab a TE with the 5th overall with the quality of TEs available in this draft.. No Way! and pay VD all that money, more than Tony or Antonio.. It smoke and mirrors... If we go up to 5 it is to grab a qb.. Matt or Vince. Shanny knows you do not go to the next level without a quality qb. I love the snake, but i do think we need to upgrade the position if we want to go further in the playoffs..
first of all with deal number two, we would still have Lelei, and walker. so with lelie still being with us we could keep him, witch is cool, or we could trade him to another team for more picks or another player, and Im cool with that. both deals are good options.

And yes, we could get vd with the fifth pick or a qb. and if we do get a qb, it will be to replace Jake in a few years. Im thinkin Cutler. if we get a qb, it better be cutler.

By the way, Jake is a quality qb, and works well for us and can get us to the next level.

[Ratboy]

http://www.seniorbowl.com/2006/graphics/photos/06.cutler.jpg

[Nuggets4]

If we get Walker, Lelie will not be a Bronco in '06. If we did the second deal, we'd probably trade Lelie to the highest bidder. I think realistically we could get a 3rd rounder for him.

Lelie probably won't be a Bronco in '06 anyway from the sounds of it.

Leinart and Young suck balls.

I just want to clarify that this is coming from the same person who wanted us to give up our entire draft to get Alex Smith, right? Just making sure.

[Requiem]

In terms to deal two, they're valuing Walker as a early/mid second round pick, (probably would be say -- 40 overall) in value. If he checks out completely healthy, and had he not been injured - it could be worth it. I'm personally in favor of the deal more because you still keep a pick, but you get a guy who produces on the field when healthy, and it feels a need so you might not have to dish out another pick on receiver (even though it wouldn't be a bad idea to do so).

I like the first deal, we're getting the #5 and Walker, for Lelie (who'd be gone anyways, #15 and #37 and probably additional picks. With that, this is would be our first day of the draft.

#5 - Best QB - Vernon Davis - Mario Williams
#61
#68
Javon Walker
But the possibility of losing a fourth-rounder or so.

Denver would add a pro-bowler, still have a second and an early third, as well as a #5 selection who could be a future franchise player. For the extra second day picks, -- getting a prospect like that (or possibilty) is pretty much worth it.

Both deals are solid, I'd like to see either get done.

[Clockwork Orange]

I just want to clarify that this is coming from the same person who wanted us to give up our entire draft to get Alex Smith, right? Just making sure.

Quoted for truth.

[Ratboy]

Lelie probably won't be a Bronco in '06 anyway from the sounds of it.



I just want to clarify that this is coming from the same person who wanted us to give up our entire draft to get Alex Smith, right? Just making sure.

I wanted Smith before he shot up into the first pick. He was rated in the 3rd round and suddenly climbed up each week.

[Jesterhole]

Both of those options suck. Walker is MAYBE worth a second rounder straight up. Maybe...

[eddie mac]

Deal 1 is a more than fair trade for the Broncos. Deal 2 values Walker as an early 2nd rd pick, far too high IMO.

[Nuggets4]

I wanted Smith before he shot up into the first pick. He was rated in the 3rd round and suddenly climbed up each week.

BS. I remember you wanting him when he was going #1. You wanted to pull a Ditka.

[Hotrod]

Ok so you take #1 move up to #5 add walker. Then you deal with the texans for #1 and take Bush ;)

[montrose]

I'd take Deal 1, I'd even throw in two 4th rounders to make it work.

[MajikMan7]

I would take both of those deals, preferably the 1st one because Walker is really only worth a 2nd round pick, so it'd be like us being able to trade up 10 spots in the first round for just Lelie and our pick.

[Requiem]

Both of those options suck. Walker is MAYBE worth a second rounder straight up. Maybe...

You move out of the first, get Javon and still have a second-rounder, a very early one. I don't see how their is a different between keeping him and having a pick and dealing straight-up.

[12th man]

In terms to deal two, they're valuing Walker as a early/mid second round pick, (probably would be say -- 40 overall) in value. If he checks out completely healthy, and had he not been injured - it could be worth it. I'm personally in favor of the deal more because you still keep a pick, but you get a guy who produces on the field when healthy, and it feels a need so you might not have to dish out another pick on receiver (even though it wouldn't be a bad idea to do so).

I like the first deal, we're getting the #5 and Walker, for Lelie (who'd be gone anyways, #15 and #37 and probably additional picks. With that, this is would be our first day of the draft.

#5 - Best QB - Vernon Davis - Mario Williams
#61
#68
Javon Walker
But the possibility of losing a fourth-rounder or so.

Denver would add a pro-bowler, still have a second and an early third, as well as a #5 selection who could be a future franchise player. For the extra second day picks, -- getting a prospect like that (or possibilty) is pretty much worth it.

Both deals are solid, I'd like to see either get done.

I think Mario williams will be gone by five. I think the Saints will get him. but if he is there at five, and so is vd, I would want Mario. but he's not going to be there, so vd or best qb, hopefully cutler.

[Jens1893]

Value Chart wise

1

Denver gets 1700 + Walker
GB gets 1050, 530 + Lelie

2

Denver gets 540 + Walker
GB gets 1050

510 points equals the 39th pick.

Using the chart Deal 1 would be better for us.

[Requiem]

12th Man, -- I'm just giving a couple "if" situations or who could be there. At any case, we'll get one of the guys out of Williams, Bush, Ferguson, Leinart or Davis. (Possibly Young pick or someone else up there.) But either way, an elite prospect at their respective positions.

[Ratboy]

BS. I remember you wanting him when he was going #1. You wanted to pull a Ditka.

Sure, I wanted him. but i don't believe i EVER mentioned pulling a Ditka. Everytime i had a mock draft it was us taking him at 25 or in the 2nd round.

[BroncoFiend]

Considering everyone here just loves option 1 I think there is no way GB goes for it.

If there is one way to tell for sure that a trade is fair it is that fans on both sides HATE it. :rofl:

[Requiem]

32 members on this thread and no REP's for the info. Thanks guys. J/K. ;) I hope to have an update later tonight, will post it in the main topic post and at the end as well.

[BroncoInferno]

the 15th pick for a guy with one good year and one ACL. F that.

People keep saying he's only had one good year, and that's wrong. He had 700+ yards and 9TDs his second season, which I'd qualify as "good", and then 82 catches for 1382 yards a 12 TDs his third season which I'd say is "outstanding".

[bendog]

Go with one, and give them a second day pick too!

It's VD and rolling the dice on Javon's knee. But really, Adams wasn't that much of a downside to Lelie, though he isn't a deep threat, but there's still the Terrell issue. VD could be a bust, but physically he's too much a freak not to gamble on.

[Hotrod]

Well one thing that is for certain this news will make Mock pee down his leg Ha!

[eddie mac]

Here's the only value chart we should be assessing before we make this trade.

[elsid13]

32 members on this thread and no REP's for the info. Thanks guys. J/K. ;) I hope to have an update later tonight, will post it in the main topic post and at the end as well.


Rep Whore ;D

[freak6]

I'll take pick #2 out of those. WHY???

We are already a solid team, one win away from the big game. Taking V Davis with the 5 pick and putting him on the field with Walker would be nice, but a ROOKIE TE that has suspect blocking in our system...

Naaa, give me 3 solid vet WRs, and we can pick some studs up in the 2nd round in this deep draft, including the TE that would be V.D. in the other scenario.

The time is NOW!!!

[BroncoFiend]

Value Chart wise

1

Denver gets 1700 + Walker
GB gets 1050, 530 + Lelie

2

Denver gets 540 + Walker
GB gets 1050

510 points equals the 39th pick.

Using the chart Deal 1 would be better for us.

Yea, option 1 just doesn't add up. We'd have to throw in our 3rd rounder I think to have a chance.

[bendog]

People keep saying he's only had one good year, and that's wrong. He had 700+ yards and 9TDs his second season, which I'd qualify as "good", and then 82 catches for 1382 yards a 12 TDs his third season which I'd say is "outstanding".
But didn't Lelie best him in the 700 yd year? I agree though I should have said one "outstanding" (pro bowl level) year. Still, I don't think anyone should fool themselves that Javon will be 100% next year, and he may only come back a step slower. He should still be a capable player, unless he took some serious cartiledge damage. But he only had the surgery in Nov or Dec, I think.

[Orange_Beard]

All right you guys sold me on option 1.

Add, Walker & VD.
Wow, that would be the offseason move of the century.

[Requiem]

I know a lot of you don't like Javon Walker's value that high, but had he not been injured, you're looking at another Pro-Bowl year for him. (More than likely.) Yes, his injury lowers his value, but had this never happened -- you wouldn't get him for a second-rounder -- period. It's still a solid move, which gives us back-to-back picks. As I've said many times, the value at the positions we need isn't at #15 -- it's right in that area we'd be going down to. Instead of going Holmes/Jackson at #15 -- you get Javon Walker and have #36/#37 to dabble with, along with two other first day selections. Sounds pretty nice if you ask me.

[BroncoInferno]

I know a lot of you don't like Javon Walker's value that high, but had he not been injured, you're looking at another Pro-Bowl year for him. (More than likely.) Yes, his injury lowers his value, but had this never happened -- you wouldn't get him for a second-rounder -- period. It's still a solid move, which gives us back-to-back picks. As I've said many times, the value at the positions we need isn't at #15 -- it's right in that area we'd be going down to. Instead of going Holmes/Jackson at #15 -- you get Javon Walker and have #36/#37 to dabble with, along with two other first day selections. Sounds pretty nice if you ask me.

Exactly. If healthy he would be worth a high 1st. High 2nd is your discounted rate. Considering that most people recover successfully from ACL tears these days, I'll gladly roll the dice for the high return.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The injury happened. You can't play some hypothetical game that he **MIGHT** have gone to the Pro Bowl this year if he'd stayed healthy and wouldn't be available for so cheap. He blew out his knee plain and simple, and what could have been has no bearing on his current value.

[Darkhawk24]

Give me Walker over Jackson or Holmes any day of the week...

[ND Bronco Fan]

What picks are left for the rumor with Ricky Williams then, Vernon Davis, Javon Walker and Ricky Williams..........yeah, you just revamped your offense.

[Requiem]

The injury happened. You can't play some hypothetical game that he **MIGHT** have gone to the Pro Bowl this year if he'd stayed healthy and wouldn't be available for so cheap. He blew out his knee plain and simple, and what could have been has no bearing on his current value.

I can play the game, and I'm more than certain had it not happened - Walker has another season like that. I just wonder how well his rehab is going, if he checks out well, I'd do that deal ASAP.

[StevetheBronco]

Deal

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I can play the game.

Good, the Broncos sure as hell aren't

[StevetheBronco]

Deal #1 - Please Do It Now!!!!!!!!!

Stb

[BroncoInferno]

The injury happened. You can't play some hypothetical game that he **MIGHT** have gone to the Pro Bowl this year if he'd stayed healthy and wouldn't be available for so cheap. He blew out his knee plain and simple, and what could have been has no bearing on his current value.

He's worth a high 2nd, easily. This isn't 1960; most players recover successfully from ACL tears. If not for the tear, we'd be lucky to get him for #15.

[Requiem]

Good, the Broncos sure as hell aren't
If the Broncos weren't playing the game on what Javon could have done had he stayed healthy, talks of this deal probably wouldn't be taking place; nor would I doubt any interest would be shown. Heck, any deal with Walker wouldn't be taking place if they weren't playing the game. The Broncos realize what he can do when healthy, which is probably why a deal like this is plausible. He's a Pro-Bowl receiver and we have a chance to get him at a decent price, and have back-to-back picks in the second.

[12th man]

What picks are left for the rumor with Ricky Williams then, Vernon Davis, Javon Walker and Ricky Williams..........yeah, you just revamped your offense.
that would be sweet! that would be a great offense. rod and walker, then vd plus Duke, I think is going to be good. Ricky could be the every down back we want, plus if he bails on us we still have Tatum, and Danyne. Heimerdinger woriking with David Terrell, I think Terrell can be good here. i think we are going to have a pretty good offesne anyway. if we add Ricky,vd, and walker, that's going to be a hard offense to stop.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

He's worth a high 2nd, easily. This isn't 1960; most players recover successfully from ACL tears. If not for the tear, we'd be lucky to get him for #15.

More come back than in the past, but some still don't come back. That's not the type of injury that you assume that someone will fully recover from. He's damaged goods until he proves it on the field.

[halfcreek]

A small point, but the second day pick could be conditional, dependent on Walker's playing time/health.

[DomCasual]

32 members on this thread and no REP's for the info. Thanks guys. J/K. ;) I hope to have an update later tonight, will post it in the main topic post and at the end as well.
Okay, I REP'd you. If none of this turns out to be right, I am going to come over and take a big REP crap on your perty orange and blue bedding! :-*

[Hercules Rockefeller]

If the Broncos weren't playing the game on what Javon could have done had he stayed healthy, talks of this deal probably wouldn't be taking place; nor would I doubt any interest would be shown. Heck, any deal with Walker wouldn't be taking place if they weren't playing the game. The Broncos realize what he can do when healthy, which is probably why a deal like this is plausible. He's a Pro-Bowl receiver and we have a chance to get him at a decent price, and have back-to-back picks in the second.

They're still not going to overvalue a player simply because of what he could have done if he had not got hurt. An injury like an ACL tear is going to be taken into account big time.

[BroncoInferno]

More come back than in the past, but some still don't come back. That's not the type of injury that you assume that someone will fully recover from. He's damaged goods until he proves it on the field.

I agree. Which is why his value is only a high 2nd and not an early to mid 1st.

[Rohirrim]

Go with the first deal and draft AJ Hawk. As soon as he gets solidly into the lineup, trade Ian. ;D

[elsid13]

While I like option one, I think this just another smokescreen that Dove Valley is throwing out there. Yes Denver be active, but I don't seen them move up or going without a first rounder this year. At the end of the day I expect to see the kid from FSU in Denver learning to play safety

[DomCasual]

Go with the first deal and draft AJ Hawk. As soon as he gets solidly into the lineup, trade Ian. ;D
I think I just threw up in my mouth. If we had #5 and got a LB, I would kill myself. Immediately.

[bendog]

More come back than in the past, but some still don't come back. That's not the type of injury that you assume that someone will fully recover from. He's damaged goods until he proves it on the field.
I really wonder whether there was significant cartiledge damage. If he doesn't end up with degenerative cartiledge, and assuming the surgery wasn't bungled, then he may, and prolly will be, a step slower. But so long as he's got the giddieup start to get off the line, speed isn't that big a deal. Even Rod can still get a few YAC.

Assuming he had the surgery around Oct 15th, I wonder what can be determined now

http://www.wrn.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=EFEE60DC-90C0-473C-B42D6B91335836D8&dbtranslator

[Requiem]

They're still not going to overvalue a player simply because of what he could have done if he had not got hurt. An injury like an ACL tear is going to be taken into account big time.
Yes, which is probably why his value isn't a first-rounder, like it would have been if the injury wasn't there.

[Rohirrim]

I think I just threw up in my mouth. If we had #5 and got a LB, I would kill myself. Immediately.

So, we'd get a couple of benefits out of the deal. :~ohyah!:

[SAGE]

What the hell is wrong with you people who want a QB in the first round?

Shanny is not going to bench Plummer for some rookie.
Which means VYoung - MLeinhart will be wasting time on the Bench for a couple years.
HOW THE HELL DOES THAT HELP US THIS YEAR?
We were a couple playmakers away from the SB. That window is closing.
You want to waste first round talent on someone who wont play for a couple years??

The only way we take a QB with the first is if Shanny plans on rebuilding.

[elsid13]

I changed my mind this isn't a smoke screen, it just a chance for Shanahan to F with Oakland and Al Davis. Shanahan probable feeding Burger Bill and the Chef a whole lot of BS to drive the zombie batty and force him to trade up to get his player.

[Requiem]

Does anyone have any information on Walker's injury, rehab, etc. -- that'd be nice.

[Rohirrim]

I changed my mind this isn't a smoke screen, it just a chance for Shanahan to F with Oakland and Al Davis. Shanahan probable feeding Burger Bill and the Chef a whole lot of BS to drive the zombie batty and force him to trade up to get his player.

You forget Shanahan's love for the injured player.

[elsid13]

You forget Shanahan's love for the injured player.


That why it the f job works, Shanahan been know to take a chance on injuried players, if we know that don't you think Davis knows it??? I stand by my statement it a mindF*** to force Oakland to do something stupid.

[Drek]

Deal 1 is ok, deal 2 is ****. Overvalues Walker horribly.

If deal one is being held up by a second day pick, well, I'm disapointed. I guess, 4th rounders do have value and shouldn't be thrown away, but in this case we're making a hell of a move up. Maybe they don't want a 4th though? If they'd take a 5th or 6th the FO should do this now, before the draft starts and **** gets mucked up.

[youcandoit1687]

VD! i just peed myself in class reading that, wow !

[Garcia Bronco]

If deal 1 happened...I'd die

[Pezman]

Does anyone have any information on Walker's injury, rehab, etc. -- that'd be nice.

According to an article at ESPN.com, he's sprinting and should be ready to go by training camp and has been training at his Alma Mater in FSU since his surgery on October 7th. How effective he'll be running routes in the preseason is the real question.

[Rohirrim]

That why it the f job works, Shanahan been know to take a chance on injuried players, if we know that don't you think Davis knows it??? I stand by my statement it a mind**** to force Oakland to do something stupid.

I hope you're right, cause that would be damn funny. :rofl:

I'm serious about taking Hawk, though. There are three, no questions asked, no doubts whatsoever, great players in this draft: D'Brick, Mario and Hawk. If you are in the 5 spot and can't get the first two, take Hawk. There are very, very few LBs like him, and they don't come along often. Hawk, Wilson and DJ. Damn!

[Popps]

DEAL #1:
Denver receives: Javon Walker, #5
Green Bay receives: Ashley Lelie, #15 and a second rounder. (No mention of which, I'd guess #37)

Green Bay allegedly is holding up this deal because they're looking for an extra second-day selection(s).

Are you kidding me? If we don't do this deal, someone in the front office should be taken out and pistol whipped. That is insane. I can't believe GB would fall for a deal that lopsided. That could arguably be the best draft day trade since 83. A massive upgrade at WR, PLUS a bump to a spot where we could nab Williams?

I think I'd tear up.

[Rascal]

From the same TSN Scout that posted the news on Jimmy Williams, he has also received word on several possible deals regarding the Packers and the Broncos.

DEAL #1:
Denver receives: Javon Walker, #5
Green Bay receives: Ashley Lelie, #15 and a second rounder. (No mention of which, I'd guess #37)

Green Bay allegedly is holding up this deal because they're looking for an extra second-day selection(s).


DEAL #2:
Denver Receives: Javon Walker, #36
Green Bay Receives: #15 Overall.


First deal
5th (1700)
15th (1050)
37th (530)

So basically the equation is 1700+Javon=1050+530 (total of 1580)+Lelie.
Here Javon is basically worth Lelie-120 (high fourth rounder).

Second deal
36th (540)
15th (1050)
Here the equation is Javon+540=1050 So Javon is equal to a 510 (high second).

Personally I don't think Javon is worth a high second, but having the security of Lelie there in case his knee acts up is something to consider as well. Based on their assumption of Javon being worth a high second that means the value they are giving for Lelie is 510+120=630 (low first!!!!!).

I think they are overvaluing Javon and especially Lelie. I like the idea of having security for Javon's knee but deal one is simply too good to pass up. Thus I'm throwing my dice at deal number 1.

I think in deal one we will have to give up our fourth, possibly third but still it is worth it.

[bendog]

I wonder how this is playing in the Ballad of Faver's Retirement

[BroncoInferno]

I hope you're right, cause that would be damn funny. :rofl:

I'm serious about taking Hawk, though. There are three, no questions asked, no doubts whatsoever, great players in this draft: D'Brick, Mario and Hawk. If you are in the 5 spot and can't get the first two, take Hawk. There are very, very few LBs like him, and they don't come along often. Hawk, Wilson and Gold. Damn!

There. Fixed it for ya. :poke: ;D

[elsid13]

There. Fixed it for ya. :poke: ;D


Socal just jumped off a high building in LA. IF you listen real carefully you can hear him provided a Mock like rant on midget linebackers......

[SAGE]

I hope you're right, cause that would be damn funny. :rofl:

I'm serious about taking Hawk, though. There are three, no questions asked, no doubts whatsoever, great players in this draft: D'Brick, Mario and Hawk. If you are in the 5 spot and can't get the first two, take Hawk. There are very, very few LBs like him, and they don't come along often. Hawk, Wilson and DJ. Damn!


Yeah, thats what we sorely needed againt Pittsburgh.......another Linebacker.
Do you want to win the superbowl any time soon???
Because according to you, you want us to use our first rounder, not to fill holes, no, to bolster our strongest position.

Here, put this on
http://emissions.sludgefaktory.com/images/straight%20jacket%20basix.jpg

[BroncoMan4ever]

yes to DEAL #1. how could u pass that up. Lelie wants out, Walker wants out of Green Bay and would look good in blue and orange, plus denver can move up and get VD, if they can get a descent every down back then it is just like the team from 1998. 2 really good receivers, a good back, and a dominant TE, with a good defense. All that combined sends a Lombardi trophy to denver

Do that deal Shannahan.8')

[12th man]

Yeah, thats what we sorely needed againt Pittsburgh.......another Linebacker.
Do you want to win the superbowl any time soon???
Because according to you, you want us to use our first rounder, not to fill holes, no, to bolster our strongest position.

Here, put this on
http://emissions.sludgefaktory.com/images/straight%20jacket%20basix.jpg
That's what I was thinking. the lb's we have are great. we don't need another one. it would be a waste of a pick.

[elsid13]

If Denver does move up, I sure it not for VD but rather Huff or Williams. The way things work Nata Jackson will be our starting TE next year.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What nobody seems to have addressed (I might have missed it), is that Javon Walker is coming off of an injury and will take some time to learn the Broncos' offense. He likely will not pay off right away. Just as any rookie that is plugged into Shanny's offense in any other position outside of RB.

Would the deficiency while waiting for the new guys lead to early season losses?

[12th man]

If Denver does move up, I sure it not for VD but rather Huff or Williams. The way things work Nata Jackson will be our starting TE next year.
It would be nice to have VD though. Also, you have to wonder if Duke is going to be the number one te, and maybe shanny isn't targeting davis. Maybe he thinks duke is the answere. but with the fifth pick I would not be opposed to getting vd. I also wouldn't be opposed of the two sharing time.

I don't think we would be targetting Huff. yes we need a replacement for Lynch, but we have bigger needs than safety. I wish we could get williams, and if the saints don't get him, and we have the fifth pick, I hope we get him.

[Rascal]

Go with the first deal and draft AJ Hawk. As soon as he gets solidly into the lineup, trade Ian. ;D

You are satan aren't you. Damn temptations.

[DomCasual]

So, we'd get a couple of benefits out of the deal. :~ohyah!:
I could always make it a murder-suicide, smartass. :)

[BroncoMan4ever]

What nobody seems to have addressed (I might have missed it), is that Javon Walker is coming off of an injury and will take some time to learn the Broncos' offense. He likely will not pay off right away. Just as any rookie that is plugged into Shanny's offense in any other position outside of RB.

Would the deficiency while waiting for the new guys lead to early season losses?

Walker is a solid pro receiver. It may take him a little time to learn the offense but, if he is healed from his injury then he for sure will be able to b a solid contributer even while learning a new system.

[OrangeShadow]

Deal #1 i think if you do it you have to take davis because of Javons injury.
Deal #2 you keep ash who still has to prove something in a contract year

i love deal #1 or 2

[12th man]

Deal #1 i think if you do it you have to take davis because of Javons injury.
Deal #2 you keep ash who still has to prove something in a contract year

i love deal #1 or 2
or with deal two, we can trade ash for more draft picks, or picks for next year, or another player.

[Hotrod]

If Denver does move up, I sure it not for VD but rather Huff or Williams. The way things work Nata Jackson will be our starting TE next year.

elsid13 needs to seek mental rehab treatment ASAP. VD is the target we are not moving up into the top 5 for a QB and certainly not for a LB :nono: PS dont take it personal this has nothing to do with your lifetime membership in greenpeace ;D

Another thing people are missing with deal #1 that might just make it worth the move. If we move to #5 and take VD we will be throwing the largest egg in the history of eggs right in San Frans eye :D

[Man-Goblin]

In regard to deal #1: How the hell do the Broncos afford to pay Walker's new contract plus a top 5 pick???

[Hotrod]

In regard to deal #1: How the hell do the Broncos afford to pay Walker's new contract plus a top 5 pick???

He still has a year on his contract no ??? We have some cap room either way next year would be the problem I think.

[Master___Pain]

In regard to deal #1: How the hell do the Broncos afford to pay Walker's new contract plus a top 5 pick???

Yeah, that's what I was wondering too

[Man-Goblin]

He still has a year on his contract no ??? We have some cap room either way next year would be the problem I think.

He made his trade demand because Green Bay wouldn't give him a new contract...If you trade for him it isn't for one year.

Plus, you have to figure a rich, happy, and vengeful Javon would be better for everyone.

[Broncoman13]

For the love of God if Deal One is true just send them the second day pick and get it over with. What in the hell is that fourth or fifth rounder going to do for us? Half the time they don't even make the team.


I almost just shat myself!!! I agree with Gonzo. Next major news story, hell freezes over!

[bpc]

wow... this is crazy. A trade like this has a chance to completely remake the face of a roster. I like either trade but of course... if GB is so easily willing to part with the #5 pick, we would be fools not to do it.

Option #2 just shows us the flexibility we have. Option #1 is the way to go. I hope this rumor is correct. I'm skeptical that GB would be this dumb.

[Hotrod]

I almost just shat myself!!! I agree with Gonzo. Next major news story, hell freezes over!

I hear ya I just did not want anyone to know that I agreed with him Ha!

[ScottXray]

He made his trade demand because Green Bay wouldn't give him a new contract...If you trade for him it isn't for one year.

Plus, you have to figure a rich, happy, and vengeful Javon would be better for everyone.

So we get to have him for one year...then he AND Lelie are gone to the highest bidder. We get to keep whatever we get with the 5th pick (VD or (god forbid) VY or whatever) IF we can sign them (under the cap) until the rookie contract is up.

for that deal we give up the 15 , Lelie, a high second and probably BOTH 4th round picks (note this is MY reading of the original deals wording.)

I would pass on that...

[Hotrod]

So we get to have him for one year...then he AND Lelie are gone to the highest bidder. We get to keep whatever we get with the 5th pick (VD or (god forbid) VY or whatever) IF we can sign them (under the cap) until the rookie contract is up.

for that deal we give up the 15 , Lelie, a high second and probably BOTH 4th round picks (note this is MY reading of the original deals wording.)

I would pass on that...

Dont forget to factor in that lelie is most likely gone next year anyway. Im on this deal like stink on boobsanaunt. Then next year you sign one or the other that plus another year of Rod plus our 3rd round pick Stovall & 5th round Hass or Hagan were set for atleast 2 years ;D

[Master___Pain]

Um, people have their orange and blue glasses on if they think Walker is not going to want a reworked deal ASAP. Are we to believe that because it's the Broncos, that Walker is just ging to say "It's cool, I don't realy need a new contract, after all I'll be playing for the Broncos" While I wish that were true, it's not the case. Dude wants his money. However, he really has no leverage, since he's coming off an ACL tear.

Eh, no matter what happens, it's been fun reading this thread.

[Hotrod]

I love deal #1 more and more. Were set to become the Colts v.2 with defense ;D

[elsid13]

elsid13 needs to seek mental rehab treatment ASAP. VD is the target we are not moving up into the top 5 for a QB and certainly not for a LB :nono: PS dont take it personal this has nothing to do with your lifetime membership in greenpeace ;D



Wow, I never figured that I would get crap from the guy who think he the Al Gore of the mane. Amazing ;D BTW Greenpeace better then PETA

But serious - with less then week to go to the draft, every team is floating stuff out there to mess with other teams. As much as I like this to be true, I think it mind-#### to SF and especial Oakland. Forcing both teams to move up in the draft and letting a player like Huff, Cutler, Ngata or Bunkley drop to spot where Denver would be willing to move up - around 10-13.
I like VD but I don't see being a impact as rookie like Ngata, Bunkley or Huff could be. (It would take time for him to learn the offense.)

[Garcia Bronco]

Deal 1.

Give them the 1st, Lelie, and #37 for Walker and the #5...that would be to awesome...hell throw in a early second day pick ..or two second day picks next year...get VD.

[elsid13]

Deal 1.

Give them the 1st, Lelie, and #37 for Walker and the #5...that would be to awesome...hell throw in a early second day pick ..or two second day picks next year...get VD.


IF we get VD the team will be renamed the Ron Mexico.

[Ratboy]

It's almost 6 est. We need an update!

[halfcreek]

Would they not redo Walker's contract before the deal is consummated and have injury-related provisions?

[kamakazi_kal]

i would take deal #1 in a heartbeat.......and then remind kubes how much he owes the broncos ..... trade out of # 5 and give up the 2nd and 3rds to get
bush....or try to get the jets #2 for mario or #3 for brick.......

unrealistic maybe....... but i can dream cant i.....
i love me some bush... ???

[telluride]

Telluride breaks his offseason silence to beg Shanny to do deal #1 and deliver unto me VD!

By the way, I'll be at Radio City for the draft. Suckers.

[Garcia Bronco]

Telluride breaks his offseason silence to beg Shanny to do deal #1 and deliver unto me VD!

By the way, I'll be at Radio City for the draft. Suckers.

And your during the season silence. :P

[Hotrod]

Wow, I never figured that I would get crap from the guy who think he the Al Gore of the mane. Amazing ;D BTW Greenpeace better then PETA

But serious - with less then week to go to the draft, every team is floating stuff out there to mess with other teams. As much as I like this to be true, I think it mind-#### to SF and especial Oakland. Forcing both teams to move up in the draft and letting a player like Huff, Cutler, Ngata or Bunkley drop to spot where Denver would be willing to move up - around 10-13.
I like VD but I don't see being a impact as rookie like Ngata, Bunkley or Huff could be. (It would take time for him to learn the offense.)

I actually think your correct since why in the **** would GB do this deal? Its fun to dream thou ;D

[Orange_Beard]

Man this is killing me.

I keep checking CNN every 5 min(or less) to see if a deal has been made....

[clint7]

32 members on this thread and no REP's for the info. Thanks guys. J/K. ;) I hope to have an update later tonight, will post it in the main topic post and at the end as well.

You get no rep until you provide an update...one which states, "Broncos and Packers have agreed on Deal #1." ;)

[Broncoman13]

What the hell is wrong with you people who want a QB in the first round?

Shanny is not going to bench Plummer for some rookie.
Which means VYoung - MLeinhart will be wasting time on the Bench for a couple years.
HOW THE HELL DOES THAT HELP US THIS YEAR?
We were a couple playmakers away from the SB. That window is closing.
You want to waste first round talent on someone who wont play for a couple years??

The only way we take a QB with the first is if Shanny plans on rebuilding.


Wrong, we take a QB in the first b/c we know and understand that Jake isn't getting any younger and really isn't the QB of the present or future. He's a stop-gap. I'm a Jake supporter and have been since day one, but nobody here can convince me that Jake Plummer will lead us to a SB. We need a dominant running game along with a opportunistic defense to win it all if Jake is the QB. Put in a QB that can really make a difference and you have a brand new formula for success. In addition to that, you have your answer for the future as well!

If we trade up to #5 I would hope that we would draft in this order. Mario Williams, Vince Young, Vernon Davis, and finally Matt Leinart. I doubt that Williams will be there. I think the Titans will end up taking VY. That leaves Vernon on the top of the list. While I don't think he's the all world TE most on here expect, I do think that he's better than about 80% of the TE's in the league right now. He's certainly better than what we have on the field at the moment! Remember, workout warriors often fail at the pro level. I'm not saying that VD will fail, but he IS a workout warrior.

As for affording a #5 and Javon Walker... You'd like have to say goodbye to a fairly highpriced vet. My guess is that a few players would again be asked to restructure and then a cut or two would occurr. I imagine Walker getting about $8-10 mil up front with an overall contract of about $40 mil over 6. Structured something like this: $10 mil bonus prorated over 6 comes out to about $1.7 mil per season. Years 1 and 2 will be for $1 and $2million a season. Years 3 and 4 for $4.5 and $5.5 million per season. Years 5 and 6 for $8 mil and $9 mil per season. That gives us cap #'s in year 1 and 2 of $2.7 and $3.7 million per season. In years 3 and 4 his cap number climbs and that is when Denver has targeted players for restructuring in the past. I believe Rod Smith, Al Wilson, and Tom Nalen each restructured in 3 of the past 4 seasons. Javon Walker would never see years 5 or 6 of that contract. If he was still an elite receiver he'd probably get another signing bonus and end up with another 7 or 8 mil to reduce the base salary. Anyhow, for years 1 and 2 an avg. of 3.2 million per season is not bad. I've also not taken into account that Denver will probably structure his bonus. Meaning he'll probably get 5 mil now an another 5 mil in year 3 or something of that nature, although that does take away some of the backloading ability.

Vernon Davis at #5 probably takes a bonus and a contract that equals what the #15 and #22 would have received. So you're not losing much on this end. Denver probably ended up with one of the larger rookie pools b/c of the two picks (save for the top 3), but I don't know how trades affect all of this. Meaning, do we lose some of that pool when we trade #22 for 37 and 68? Do we get more if/when we trade up to #5?

[elsid13]

Man this is killing me.

I keep checking CNN every 5 min(or less) to see if a deal has been made....


You might as well be checking to see if the Martians have landed or Boob got some. Repeat after me- smokescreen and internet rumor....

[Orange_Beard]

You might as well be checking to see if the Martians have landed or Boob got some. Repeat after me- smokescreen and internet rumor....

Good Point.

[OrangeShadow]

I doubt wed make this deal without at least having the framework for a deal with javon.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

How many times does it have to repeated that the cap room is there if the Broncos want it?

Bailey, Wilson, Plummer and Smith have not yet restructured, and Lepsis' deal was pre-CBA and conformed with the 30% rule. That's $19.5M in base salaries that can be restructured, and that doesn't even factor in that Denver is probably $7-8M under the cap right now.

[ro_50]

You guys are right, its just rumors to this point.

[Broncoman13]

I forgot to mention the fact that we were around 7 mil under right now. Plus, I really didn't know about Lepsis' pre-CBA deal and those rules... but I knew my boy Anny would either have my back or make my post about contract dollars look foolish!!! ;D

[Hercules Rockefeller]

So it's after 6 in the east, where's the new update?

[Paladin]

CAp space and dollars are not the issue here at all. The issue is whether the Broncos give up the additional 4th, and whether Javon is healthy enough to play sometime next year. I would hope that VD or Mario would be the target picks. I would prefer Mario because he could play right out of the box, and at least create chaos for other teams. A good TE can be had later. A decent RB can be had later. Next priority, IMHO would be DE/DT.

[Clockwork Orange]

That's $19.5M in base salaries that can be restructured, and that doesn't even factor in that Denver is probably $7-8M under the cap right now.

According to kffl, the Broncos are currently $7.4 million under the cap.

[Master___Pain]

Edit, I miss read his numbers...I though I saw he only had 500 yards in his career, but that was an old figure that did not take 2005 into account. D'oh!

[SAGE]

Wrong, we take a QB in the first b/c we know and understand that Jake isn't getting any younger and really isn't the QB of the present or future. He's a stop-gap


So you think we plug a rookie into this system and we can make the superbowl this season?
I'm not looking to the future......I'm looking at us as being serious contenders NOW. We need that 1st round pick to help us NOW.
**The Broncos just made the AFC Championship game**
A few more weapons/defense not collapsing/ Plummer would have took us to the Superbowl.
Wouldnt fixing those problems be easier/and more practical/ then waiting until a rookie hits that learning curve (At least 2 Years)/

BTW, I dont believe Plummer is the future either.
But we have to much money invested in him to bench him this season.

[Steve Sewell]

From the same TSN Scout that posted the news on Jimmy Williams, he has also received word on several possible deals regarding the Packers and the Broncos.

DEAL #1:
Denver receives: Javon Walker, #5
Green Bay receives: Ashley Lelie, #15 and a second rounder. (No mention of which, I'd guess #37)

Green Bay allegedly is holding up this deal because they're looking for an extra second-day selection(s).


DEAL #2:
Denver Receives: Javon Walker, #36
Green Bay Receives: #15 Overall.

Lelie isn't involved in this trade, which is interesting. I like this deal a lot. We move back, get a receiver and have back to back picks (36 and 37) in Round Two. That's nice.

Just posted fresh today, I'll try and talk to him in private about this and get more information and I'll keep you guys updated, I know you love it!


Let's see, Vernon Davis and Javon Walker for Lelie, a mid 1st rounder, and a high 2nd rounder? Me LIKEY!!!!!!!

If this happens, can you say Super Bowl XLI Champions?

[Requiem]

So it's after 6 in the east, where's the new update?

The TSN Crew had a meeting at 6:00 PM, I never that's when I'd have it up. It'll be up sometime tonight if I'm in contact with him then and if there's anything else to add onto this. I'm pretty busy, so it might be sometime tomorrow. However, if there aren't any new developments, it is what it is. A possibility, a speculation, a rumor.

[Hotrod]

The TSN Crew had a meeting at 6:00 PM, I never that's when I'd have it up. It'll be up sometime tonight if I'm in contact with him then and if there's anything else to add onto this. I'm pretty busy, so it might be sometime tomorrow. However, if there aren't any new developments, it is what it is. A possibility, a speculation, a rumor.

Well great I guess I'll have to wait until tomarrow night to sleep.

[Requiem]

It's really nothing to lose sleep over, it's all speculation at this point and most of us have known that the interest with Green Bay involving a swap pre or on draft day was likely to occur. I promise I'll get as much as I can, it's the most I can do.

[elsid13]

Well great I guess I'll have to wait until tomarrow night to sleep.


Just read some of your old posts, they sure put the rest of us into a coma. ;D

[Drek]

I doubt wed make this deal without at least having the framework for a deal with javon.
Why? It'd only muck things up. As it is now we're trading a one year rental of Lelie for a one year rental of Walker, both teams are responsible for getting extensions.

I don't think Walker would need a deal though. Rosenhaus isn't his agent anymore and he'd ended his holdout last season before getting hurt (obviously). The number one reason he cited recently for wanting a trade is that he feels he can't get a fair shake in Green Bay at this point, from the fans or the organization. A new team would take care of that and give him a chance to prove himself, then hit the open market for the big deal he thinks he deserves.

No one would ever hold out in his situation, he has no leverage as no one will even give him more than a vet minimum deal if he's not on the field next season.

[Hotrod]

It's really nothing to lose sleep over, it's all speculation at this point and most of us have known that the interest with Green Bay involving a swap pre or on draft day was likely to occur. I promise I'll get as much as I can, it's the most I can do.

I was pulling your chain I'll sleep just fine until after the draft when Shanny pulls a Shanny on me and I lay awake just saying over and over WTF WTF ;D

[Hotrod]

Just read some of your old posts, they sure put the rest of us into a coma. ;D

LOL with friends like you Im set for life :)

[elsid13]

LOL with friends like you Im set for life :)


Thanks, but this doesn't mean we going to be taking long hot shower together. *



* line stolen from Heartbreak ridge.

[bombquixote]

You might as well be checking to see if the Martians have landed or Boob got some. Repeat after me- smokescreen and internet rumor....

Bah. Enough with the negative waves, Moriarty! If you believe the bridge will be there, the bridge will be there.*

*Stolen from 'Kelly's Heroes.'

[Lestat]

oh please let deal #1 happen, that's pure theft for us if GB does it, even if you gotta throw a 3rd or 4th in there

you get Vernon Davis @ #5 or possibly Mario Williams if he falls, then you still keep #37 or #61 in the 2nd & there you can take Stovall,Addai & after that a DE or so

[Rohirrim]

Yeah, thats what we sorely needed againt Pittsburgh.......another Linebacker.
Do you want to win the superbowl any time soon???
Because according to you, you want us to use our first rounder, not to fill holes, no, to bolster our strongest position.

Here, put this on
http://emissions.sludgefaktory.com/images/straight%20jacket%20basix.jpg

My argument is based solely on BPA. If Bush, Mario, and D'Brick are gone, next best player available is Hawk, IMO. So replacing Brown with Mario would be an upgrade, but replacing Gold with Hawk wouldn't?

What if Brick was there? Would we not take him because of Lepsis?

[ND Bronco Fan]

I was pulling your chain I'll sleep just fine until after the draft when Shanny pulls a Shanny on me and I lay awake just saying over and over WTF WTF ;D


You are apparently not drinking enough, by the end of the first day I was so loaded I thought we drafted Maurice Clarrett..........wait a second..........

[RunYouOver26]

Any idea as to when either will go down??

[Rohirrim]

You are apparently not drinking enough, by the end of the first day I was so loaded I thought we drafted Maurice Clarrett..........wait a second..........

LOL I think we all had that same hangover.

[ND Bronco Fan]

Any idea as to when either will go down??

Herc and Hotrod? (jk guys--had to)

[Atlas]

Packer fans would riot if they traded down to #15.

I would love it BUT it ain't happening.

[eddie mac]

All this fancy stuff is horse**** IMO, 1st rd picks wont be swapped at all. If Walker's coming to Denver it's either with Lelie going the other way or a 3rd rd pick at best, end of story.

[broncsyanks]

the 1st "deal" is the most promising for us but highly unlikely. if that is what it would take for us to get the 5 i am all for it. jevon walker is only a little better then lelie - so sacrificing 2 #2's for jevon and the #5 is great, but this will never occur. just out of curiosity where are the sources behind this info? is it credible?

[27atwater]

All this fancy stuff is horse**** IMO, 1st rd picks wont be swapped at all. If Walker's coming to Denver it's either with Lelie going the other way or a 3rd rd pick at best, end of story.


i disagree...kinda. reports say that we took the #2 from SF to get Javon. It trumps what Philly can offer and totally eliminates SF from any trade w/ GB.

It's probable that the trade is simpler, but to get JW str8 up, we're giving up the #37.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

reports say that we took the #2 from SF to get Javon. It trumps what Philly can offer and totally eliminates SF from any trade w/ GB.


and this "rumor" came from a website that said Ricky had won his appeal.

EastCoastSports has no credibility.

[27atwater]

and this "rumor" came from a website that said Ricky had won his appeal.

EastCoastSports has no credibility.


but that one actually makes logical sense...the positioning that is. not the ricky thing.

[wabbit]

Hi Guys...ladies

Listen, I saw this when it was posted and called a good friend (& sports writer) of mine in Chicago...who is a relative of a beat writer for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

I know, sounds a little convoluted, but i've beena talking with Ken in Chicago about this for a while & he says this 'trade' as proposed in the first post of this thread is bunk...and that's not at all meant to cast dispersions on the poster.

He says Packer management would stormed by locals and hanged if this took place...figuratively speaking to the extreme, of course...and insisted as of 4:45 pm Mountain Time today that the Packers were still taking a very hard line on Walker, while admitting they are open to talks...AND stilla sking for a high round draft choice as compensation.

That's as of this afternoon...could change I suppose, but, no heavy trade talks today...just...talk.

[Popps]

Hi Guys...ladies

Listen, I saw this when it was posted and called a good friend (& sports writer) of mine in Chicago...who is a relative of a beat writer for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

I know, sounds a little convoluted, but i've beena talking with Ken in Chicago about this for a while & he says this 'trade' as proposed in the first post of this thread is bunk...and that's not at all meant to cast dispersions on the poster.

He says Packer management would stormed by locals and hanged if this took place...figuratively speaking to the extreme, of course...and insisted as of 4:45 pm Mountain Time today that the Packers were still taking a very hard line on Walker, while admitting they are open to talks...AND stilla sking for a high round draft choice as compensation.

That's as of this afternoon...could change I suppose, but, no heavy trade talks today...just...talk.

I thought that was WAY too good to be true. Sounds more like something that started on this board, and maybe made it's way into "fact" somewhere.

I'd still dish our #37 for him, straight up... no prob. Hey, he and Ashley will just have to coexist on our roster... that is, if Ashley's feelings aren't too hurt.

[Rohirrim]

Hi Guys...ladies

Listen, I saw this when it was posted and called a good friend (& sports writer) of mine in Chicago...who is a relative of a beat writer for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

I know, sounds a little convoluted, but i've beena talking with Ken in Chicago about this for a while & he says this 'trade' as proposed in the first post of this thread is bunk...and that's not at all meant to cast dispersions on the poster.

He says Packer management would stormed by locals and hanged if this took place...figuratively speaking to the extreme, of course...and insisted as of 4:45 pm Mountain Time today that the Packers were still taking a very hard line on Walker, while admitting they are open to talks...AND stilla sking for a high round draft choice as compensation.

That's as of this afternoon...could change I suppose, but, no heavy trade talks today...just...talk.

Well, I guess this means on to the next rumor and another ten page thread. :rofl:

Is this friggin draft ever going to get here?

Hey, Wabbit, have you heard anything about the Broncos having interest in Tamba Hali, other than "They have interest in everybody?" Any interest getting stronger than others on anybody?

[eddie mac]

I thought that was WAY too good to be true. Sounds more like something that started on this board, and maybe made it's way into "fact" somewhere.

I'd still dish our #37 for him, straight up... no prob. Hey, he and Ashley will just have to coexist on our roster... that is, if Ashley's feelings aren't too hurt.

Thank god you're not Mike Shanahan well. I think if we were offering 37 Green Bay would've bitten our hands off by now.

[ro_50]

Hi Guys...ladies

Listen, I saw this when it was posted and called a good friend (& sports writer) of mine in Chicago...who is a relative of a beat writer for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

I know, sounds a little convoluted, but i've beena talking with Ken in Chicago about this for a while & he says this 'trade' as proposed in the first post of this thread is bunk...and that's not at all meant to cast dispersions on the poster.

He says Packer management would stormed by locals and hanged if this took place...figuratively speaking to the extreme, of course...and insisted as of 4:45 pm Mountain Time today that the Packers were still taking a very hard line on Walker, while admitting they are open to talks...AND stilla sking for a high round draft choice as compensation.

That's as of this afternoon...could change I suppose, but, no heavy trade talks today...just...talk.


Thanks.

[wabbit]

...I'd still dish our #37 for him, straight up... no prob. Hey, he and Ashley will just have to coexist on our roster... that is, if Ashley's feelings aren't too hurt.

...and that could still happen, because the Packers are asking for compensation around those terms...low first, high second.

A trade may also include Ashley Lelie, but at the moment, the Packers only want to hear offers...nothing concrete.

They could sell solid draft compensation to their fan base (Packers are a publicly-owned club), although I'm told the fans in general aren't happy and want management to take a play-or-retire position on the matter.

My guess is that anything that may happen regarding a Walker trade, will take place very late in the week or early in the draft itself.

[24champ]

...and that could still happen, because the Packers are asking for compensation around those terms...low first, high second.

A trade may also include Ashley Lelie, but at the moment, the Packers only want to hear offers...nothing concrete.

They could sell solid draft compensation to their fan base (Packers are a publicly-owned club), although I'm told the fans in general aren't happy and want management to take a play-or-retire position on the matter.

My guess is that anything that may happen regarding a Walker trade, will take place very late in the week or early in the draft itself.
thanks for the info wabbit.

[wabbit]

...
...have you heard anything about the Broncos having interest in Tamba Hali, other than "They have interest in everybody?" Any interest getting stronger than others on anybody?

The Broncos are very interested in Hali as a pass rush specialist & Hali is falling for reasons I don't really understand, so there's a chance...barring a Walker trade, and I say again, the trade COULD happen, just not being discussed the way trade scenerios are posted on this thread...that Hali could fall to early in the second.

If he is there at 2a, I would bet money the Broncos would take him...just not round 1.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Wabbit- the Post and Rocky both said they would seriously consider drafting Cutler if he lasted until #15. From some of the comments they had about JC, "seriously consider" seemed like an understatement to me and he'd almost certainly be the pick. If he lasts that long, is Cutler the pick?

[eddie mac]

The Broncos are very interested in Hali as a pass rush specialist & Hali is falling for reasons I don't really understand, so there's a chance...barring a Walker trade, and I say again, the trade COULD happen, just not being discussed the way trade scenerios are posted on this thread...that Hali could fall to early in the second.

If he is there at 2a, I would bet money the Broncos would take him...just not round 1.

Wabbit have the Broncos shown any interest in Stallworth who's being shopped by the Saints or any of the Lions receivers who are rumoured to be available???

[wabbit]

Wabbit- the Post and Rocky both said they would seriously consider drafting Cutler if he lasted until #15. From some of the comments they had about JC, "seriously consider" seemed like an understatement to me and he'd almost certainly be the pick. If he lasts that long, is Cutler the pick?


I've heard precisely the same thing...'seriously consider'.

Seems the very definition of a no-brainer decision to me, but I can't say they would definately take him, just that it would seem almost impossible to pass him up.

That's what I was told Monday as speculation mounted that Cutler may fall to mid-round.

In my opinion they would take him.

[wabbit]

Wabbit have the Broncos shown any interest in Stallworth who's being shopped by the Saints or any of the Lions receivers who are rumoured to be available???

I know for a fact that they have taken a look at both Stallworth & Rogers, but I'm not sure what was being asked as compensation.

Again, if the Walker talks don't progress as desired, AND if the decision is made that someone other than Jackson or Holmes is just too good to pass up at 15 (Cutler for example) the smart money says they would make a move for one of those two available vets.

[Rohirrim]

The Broncos are very interested in Hali as a pass rush specialist & Hali is falling for reasons I don't really understand, so there's a chance...barring a Walker trade, and I say again, the trade COULD happen, just not being discussed the way trade scenerios are posted on this thread...that Hali could fall to early in the second.

If he is there at 2a, I would bet money the Broncos would take him...just not round 1.

Mediator posted that Hali just has a lousy agent who didn't tell him how important the work-outs were to his career, so Hali was pursuing a 15 credit load to finish up his degree. Something like that, if I remember correctly. Anyway, it just sounded like it wasn't Hali's fault at all, but it's being held against him by scouts. I was glad to see that Shanahan said in the RMN today (when talking about QBs) that he looks at performance on the field first. If he watches Hali, he'll be convinced.

[orinjkrush]

deal one is a winner. this is the year of the offense. VD and Walker create horrible mismatches for everybody. They can't cover all those weapons at once. we have enough B or B+ players throughout the roster. An A and an A- player for the passing game ramps the O to the next level.

[Drek]

Mediator posted that Hali just has a lousy agent who didn't tell him how important the work-outs were to his career, so Hali was pursuing a 15 credit load to finish up his degree. Something like that, if I remember correctly. Anyway, it just sounded like it wasn't Hali's fault at all, but it's being held against him by scouts. I was glad to see that Shanahan said in the RMN today (when talking about QBs) that he looks at performance on the field first. If he watches Hali, he'll be convinced.
Hali has been finishing his degree and working hard to get his mother to the U.S. (talked about it when interviewed by ESPN's Cold Pizza). Most other draftees basically drop out of college when they declare and do nothing but workout for the combine. Hali's basically being penalized for showing more commitment to school and his family. To me that says high character, and I guy I want. I hope like hell he slides to 37, he'd be a great pick to follow up after we take Cutler. :)

[Atlas]

The Broncos are very interested in Hali as a pass rush specialist & Hali is falling for reasons I don't really understand.

He is falling because NFL teams found out at his workout that Lucy, Linus and Charlie Brown all could bench more than him.

[Rohirrim]

Hali has been finishing his degree and working hard to get his mother to the U.S. (talked about it when interviewed by ESPN's Cold Pizza). Most other draftees basically drop out of college when they declare and do nothing but workout for the combine. Hali's basically being penalized for showing more commitment to school and his family. To me that says high character, and I guy I want. I hope like hell he slides to 37, he'd be a great pick to follow up after we take Cutler. :)

I don't know about Cutler (literally) but I agree on Hali. :thumbs:

[Popps]

Thank god you're not Mike Shanahan well. I think if we were offering 37 Green Bay would've bitten our hands off by now.

We've been through this, but if you think there is any draft selection out there that comes with any more of a guarantee for success than Walker, you only need to thumb through our rounds 1/2 draft picks over the last decade. We've got about a 25% success rate, putting it optimistically.

Walker's got at least those odds of panning out, probably better, considering he's proven something at this level.

Hopefully Green Bay bites our hand off soon. We'll have a Pro Bowl WR and they'll have a crap shoot in the 2nd round.

[Ray Finkle]

I am convinced I am going to be confused by what ever pick the Broncos make.

[Rohirrim]

He is falling because NFL teams found out at his workout that Lucy, Linus and Charlie Brown all could bench more than him.

Well, he did one more than Kiwi. I wonder what his squat was? Somehow he was able to produce on the football field, the rest I leave to Tuten. ;D

[Requiem]

Here's an update on the situation: (FROM TSN WAR ROOM SCOUT)

About a half hour ago I had the chance to speak to source very close to the Broncos. I'll go on record now as saying this is one of those guys that you can place you reputation in his hands.

As I reported earlier, the Broncos are in heavy discussions with the Packers trying to conjure up a deal that would bring Javon Walker to Denver. This deal really seems to be more 2 part then it looks on the surface.

The Broncos have a real love fest going on for Vernon Davis and are doing everything and anything in their power to jump ahead of the Raiders who they believe will take Davis and give them a dangerous group of receivers and even the 49ers who have been said to be very interested.

I was told the Broncos could have landed Walker by now as GB and Denver have virtually agreed on the details of a trade but Denver has soured after GB pulled a more complex deal involving a swap of 1st round picks off the table.

I was basically told every move Denver has made to this point was to position themselves to move up into the top 6 of this draft. If that includes acquiring Walker along the way they consider it icing on the cake. The trade with SF to acquire extra day 1 picks was all part of the plan as it's believed Denver will use those picks as ammunition to move up along with Lelie.

The bottom line is, expect Denver to acquire Walker but not at the cost of losing out on Vernon Davis. If a deal can't be reached with GB by Thursday that includes the 5th pick then you can expect Denver to turn their attention to the Jets who have already made contact with the Broncos about moving up. The Jets with 2 first round pick would love to move back and acquire additional picks for what they are calling a minor rebuilding process.

When I aksed him what he thought would finally happen he seemed to think in the end the price to move into the top 5 will be to steep but he also cautioned that Denver has made Davis priority #1 from the day they started their off season program and not to be surprised if Denver sells the farm to make it happen. He said at this time he's leaning towards Walker being a Bronco but not at the cost of the 15th pick but something less. Something in the range of 2nd and 3rd rounder or 2nd rounder with a future pick. If Denver is giving up their 15th it's only going to be in a move that will land them Vernon Davis.

[SoCalBronco]

Thanks for the evening update, Requiem.

Damn, thats depressing. Selling out the farm. Dammit...we should be trading down not moving everything for 1 player. Ideally, Shanny's efforts will be rejected by the Jets and GB.

[Requiem]

Hi Guys...ladies

Listen, I saw this when it was posted and called a good friend (& sports writer) of mine in Chicago...who is a relative of a beat writer for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

I know, sounds a little convoluted, but i've beena talking with Ken in Chicago about this for a while & he says this 'trade' as proposed in the first post of this thread is bunk...and that's not at all meant to cast dispersions on the poster.

He says Packer management would stormed by locals and hanged if this took place...figuratively speaking to the extreme, of course...and insisted as of 4:45 pm Mountain Time today that the Packers were still taking a very hard line on Walker, while admitting they are open to talks...AND stilla sking for a high round draft choice as compensation.

That's as of this afternoon...could change I suppose, but, no heavy trade talks today...just...talk.


Well according to the new update, the offer was pulled from a table, but talks are going on and it seems heavy from this front. I know it's not meant as an attack, but I guess we're hearing two different stories.

[Requiem]

Watermock has to be jacking it right now, I cannot imagine what he'll be like on draft day if we get Vernon.

[watermock]

It's not my fault! Jimmy has his own mind.

[RunYouOver26]

If we get Vernon Davis, I'm going to be really, really happy!!!

Add Javon to that...it's great....thanks for the updates!!!

And it looks like it'll be done by Thursday or on to the Jets?

[Man-Goblin]

Here's an update on the situation: (FROM TSN WAR ROOM SCOUT)

About a half hour ago I had the chance to speak to source very close to the Broncos. I'll go on record now as saying this is one of those guys that you can place you reputation in his hands.

As I reported earlier, the Broncos are in heavy discussions with the Packers trying to conjure up a deal that would bring Javon Walker to Denver. This deal really seems to be more 2 part then it looks on the surface.

The Broncos have a real love fest going on for Vernon Davis and are doing everything and anything in their power to jump ahead of the Raiders who they believe will take Davis and give them a dangerous group of receivers and even the 49ers who have been said to be very interested.

I was told the Broncos could have landed Walker by now as GB and Denver have virtually agreed on the details of a trade but Denver has soured after GB pulled a more complex deal involving a swap of 1st round picks off the table.

I was basically told every move Denver has made to this point was to position themselves to move up into the top 6 of this draft. If that includes acquiring Walker along the way they consider it icing on the cake. The trade with SF to acquire extra day 1 picks was all part of the plan as it's believed Denver will use those picks as ammunition to move up along with Lelie.

The bottom line is, expect Denver to acquire Walker but not at the cost of losing out on Vernon Davis. If a deal can't be reached with GB by Thursday that includes the 5th pick then you can expect Denver to turn their attention to the Jets who have already made contact with the Broncos about moving up. The Jets with 2 first round pick would love to move back and acquire additional picks for what they are calling a minor rebuilding process.

When I aksed him what he thought would finally happen he seemed to think in the end the price to move into the top 5 will be to steep but he also cautioned that Denver has made Davis priority #1 from the day they started their off season program and not to be surprised if Denver sells the farm to make it happen. He said at this time he's leaning towards Walker being a Bronco but not at the cost of the 15th pick but something less. Something in the range of 2nd and 3rd rounder or 2nd rounder with a future pick. If Denver is giving up their 15th it's only going to be in a move that will land them Vernon Davis.

I find it hard to believe that someone that close to the discussions would be yapping his mouth to some internet writer...

[Rohirrim]

Vernon Davis is an incredible athlete, had a great combine and he's a real workout warrior. It just keeps nagging me that his stats on the football field are no better than Marcedes, a guy 25 picks back. I'm not negative on him, it's just something to wonder about, IMO.

[Requiem]

I don't know how all this is going to go down, I'm having problems figuring out the value.

[Atlas]

Vernon Davis is an incredible athlete, had a great combine and he's a real workout warrior. It just keeps nagging me that his stats on the football field are no better than Marcedes, a guy 25 picks back. I'm not negative on him, it's just something to wonder about, IMO.

Also scouts say that he has the best hands in the draft next to Chad Jackson.

[SoCalBronco]

This better not happen

:garcia: :garcia:

No trading the farm for VD. No 2nd AND 3rd for Walker. Not even 37 by itself. If GB says thats insufficient, they can go pound sand.

[clint7]

Well according to the new update, the offer was pulled from a table, but talks are going on and it seems heavy from this front. I know it's not meant as an attack, but I guess we're hearing two different stories.

You have earned your rep, buddy! Here ya go... :)

[Requiem]

I find it hard to believe that someone that close to the discussions would be yapping his mouth to some internet writer...

*shrugs* It's not that he's just some "internet writer" - the guy I am talking with works for the SportingNews as a Scout, so I think that's pretty respectable.

[Requiem]

This better not happen

:garcia: :garcia:

No trading the farm for VD. No 2nd AND 3rd for Walker. Not even 37 by itself. If GB says thats insufficient, they can go pound sand.

I don't want to see all of this happen either, but it'll make the day interesting to say the least. I don't see how Green Bay can demand so much for the guy, I don't see how they even have leverage in this situation. Four more days to go and we'll all find out - but hey, like the guy said -- if a deal is done, perhaps it's done by Thursday.

[Gcver2ver3]

*shrugs* It's not that he's just some "internet writer" - the guy I am talking with works for the SportingNews as a Scout, so I think that's pretty respectable.


hey great job man!


thanks

[Rohirrim]

Also scouts say that he has the best hands in the draft next to Chad Jackson.

The best hands I've seen on film this year belong to Mike Hass.

[GonzoLays]

*shrugs* It's not that he's just some "internet writer" - the guy I am talking with works for the SportingNews as a Scout, so I think that's pretty respectable.

Or you "think" he is a SportingNews scout but is really a fat twelve year old with glasses who posts out of his basement.

[Requiem]

Or you "think" he is a SportingNews scout but is really a fat twelve year old with glasses who posts out of his basement.

I don't think, I know.

[clint7]

At least it's nice to be a fan of a team that seems to be really working the phones to make this year's draft very interesting. Heck, they've already been jumping and moving around like a kid high on Little Debbie cakes. Can't wait to see what happens next.

[Rohirrim]

At least it's nice to be a fan of a team that seems to be really working the phones to make this year's draft very interesting. Heck, they've already been jumping and moving around like a kid high on Little Debbie cakes. Can't wait to see what happens next.

Or, as Ray Romano put it, "Like a monkey on a cupcake." Ha!

Thank you, Requiem. Rep.

[Man-Goblin]

*shrugs* It's not that he's just some "internet writer" - the guy I am talking with works for the SportingNews as a Scout, so I think that's pretty respectable.

Gotcha. I'm just saying the Broncos are usually pretty secretive with their plans and how they act.

Anyways, I really hope it gets done. I really don't view it as selling the farm because draft picks are hit or miss anyways. I'd love to see both Walker and Davis here.

I loved Walker's game two years ago when he was in my mind one of the top 5 receivers in the league. And, apparently, his knee is progressing nicely.

Also, having a target like Davis for Jake would pay huge dividends. People can question whether he can get him the ball all they want, but he damn sure got Sharpe the ball in his last year.

In my opinion they should trade what they have to to get this thing done, and use their remaining picks on depth. If the draft is as deep as people who seemingly would be against this trade are saying, they still would be able to get some quality players.

[GonzoLays]

*shrugs* It's not that he's just some "internet writer" - the guy I am talking with works for the SportingNews as a Scout, so I think that's pretty respectable.

But lets get real here. The guy might be a SportingNews "scout" but how in the hell does know all the Broncos business? Is he any better than any other rumor mongering writer out there today?

I mean he is scout for a sports newspaper not a front office GM that is giving you all this info. How many times has a paper broken a trade before it happened this offseason. Once? Twice?

But keep posting what he says, if anything it is highly entertaining. If he gets just one draft pick right I will be amazed.

[Gcver2ver3]

Gotcha. I'm just saying the Broncos are usually pretty secretive with their plans and how they act.

Anyways, I really hope it gets done. I really don't view it as selling the farm because draft picks are hit or miss anyways. I'd love to see both Walker and Davis here.

I loved Walker's game two years ago when he was in my mind one of the top 5 receivers in the league. And, apparently, his knee is progressing nicely.

Also, having a target like Davis for Jake would pay huge dividends. People can question whether he can get him the ball all they want, but he damn sure got Sharpe the ball in his last year.

In my opinion they should trade what they have to to get this thing done, and use their remaining picks on depth. If the draft is as deep as people who seemingly would be against this trade are saying, they still would be able to get some quality players.



i agree with this entire post

[yerner]

cool. good work. i just think its weird that we'd want a tight end this badly. there's just so much depth in this draft at the position.

[Broncoman13]

Thanks for the evening update, Requiem.

Damn, thats depressing. Selling out the farm. Dammit...we should be trading down not moving everything for 1 player. Ideally, Shanny's efforts will be rejected by the Jets and GB.


I'm not sure we're selling the farm completely. Sounds to me that we're selling all of the pigs, cows, horses, and machinery (I'll throw in Mock for free!) but not the land itself. I'm all for moving up to be honest. I know how much depth there is in this draft. I spend countless hours looking over tons of these guys, trying to get a better idea of when they'll be available and how suitable they are for the Broncos. That being said, I don't believe VD is the guy to move up for... not at a hefty price anyway. If the Broncos came out and said we're trading Ash, #15, #61, and a 2nd in next year's draft for VD and Walker I would say GREAT! If the Broncos came out and said we're trading Ash, #15, #37, #68 and a 3rd next year for Walker and #5 I'd be upset. But, I would take that deal for Mario or VY. It'll all work out in the end I'm sure. We're up to something and it's making this draft interesting. Who am I to complain, I wanted action and I'm finally getting some!

[GonzoLays]

I personally don't think it is good sign when wabbit comes out says that he talked to his contact in Chicago and he has heard nothing of the Lelie, 15th pick, 37 pick for Walker and the 5th. His guy even said that this deal was highly unprobable and the Green Bay fans would crucify the front office for such a lopsided deal.

But who knows

[Requiem]

But lets get real here. The guy might be a SportingNews "scout" but how in the hell does know all the Broncos business? Is he any better than any other rumor mongering writer out there today?

I mean he is scout for a sports newspaper not a front office GM that is giving you all this info. How many times has a paper broken a trade before it happened this offseason. Once? Twice?

But keep posting what he says, if anything it is highly entertaining. If he gets just one draft pick right I will be amazed.
He never claims to know everything, but he's a highly respectable guy and it's great that he's even letting me know this, and is allowing me to go out there and shell it out to you guys. This is what he's hearing, I never said it was the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and as adults -- I expect you to have your own opinions and you do have the right to take it with a grain of salt.

I feel fortunate enough to be able to be in contact with a guy like him and I am happy I get to share this information with the posters on this site who really care. If you're just going to be negative about it, I really wish you'd just keep your comments to yourself. In the end, all of this may not be true or right (nor do I expect it to be) - but hey; atleast he went out there - got the best information he could get and allowed me to relay it to you guys.

I didn't have to do this, I just thought it'd be nice to keep you guys up to date about what seems to be "hush-hush" behind the scenes, even though it's been pretty much known that Denver has been trying to get Walker for some time now; and that there is interest in moving up. That's pretty much a given, but whenever I get a chance at getting more detailed information in regards to this, I'll do my best to let you know. That's a big reason I'm here.

[Atlas]

This better not happen

No trading the farm for VD. No 2nd AND 3rd for Walker. Not even 37 by itself. If GB says thats insufficient, they can go pound sand.\

I can see what you are talking about BUT how can you not like the fact that Denver gets Vernon Davis, and Walker for Lelie and a #1,.#2 and a #4?? That would be great.

Denver would still have a #2, #3, #4,#4,#5,#6

That's hardly selling the farm. That being said I don't think GB does that deal.

[GonzoLays]

He never claims to know everything, but he's a highly respectable guy and it's great that he's even letting me know this, and is allowing me to go out there and shell it out to you guys. This is what he's hearing, I never said it was the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and as adults -- I expect you to have your own opinions and you do have the right to take it with a grain of salt.

I feel fortunate enough to be able to be in contact with a guy like him and I am happy I get to share this information with the posters on this site who really care. If you're just going to be negative about it, I really wish you'd just keep your comments to yourself. In the end, all of this may not be true or right (nor do I expect it to be) - but hey; atleast he went out there - got the best information he could get and allowed me to relay it to you guys.

I didn't have to do this, I just thought it'd be nice to keep you guys up to date about what seems to be "hush-hush" behind the scenes, even though it's been pretty much known that Denver has been trying to get Walker for some time now; and that there is interest in moving up. That's pretty much a given, but whenever I get a chance at getting more detailed information in regards to this, I'll do my best to let you know. That's a big reason I'm here.

Get your panties out of wad and keep posting. Jesus, don't be so sensitive.

If you want a pat on the back there are a thousand and one posters giving it to you.

Learn to take some criticism without crying all over your keyboard.

[Requiem]

I personally don't think it is good sign when wabbit comes out says that he talked to his contact in Chicago and he has heard nothing of the Lelie, 15th pick, 37 pick for Walker and the 5th. His guy even said that this deal was highly unprobable and the Green Bay fans would crucify the front office for such a lopsided deal.

But who knows

Well, this is no slam on Wabbit -- as his post was no slam on me, but if I remember correctly, he stated his contact was a good friend of a writer for the Milwaukee-Sentinel. Maybe they're just not hearing the same things, and I don't think it's totally out of the realm of possibilty that there is confusion when it comes to reporting what's going on.

Who knows if there is truth anywhere in this (I think there is) - but I thought it'd be nice to report anyways.

It makes things fun.

[Requiem]

Learn to take some criticism without crying all over your keyboard.

I don't think criticism consists of pot-shotting the source of the information. At least, it's not constructive.

[Rohirrim]

I'll say one thing for sure, for all those years I bitched at the Broncos for not making any moves, they're making up for all of that in one draft!

[Requiem]

About selling the farm, who knows what all the picks will be shipped when it's said and done. I'd just hope that we'd have something other to show from the first day of this draft than Vernon Davis and Javon Walker, sure that's a nice addition to the passing game, but what about the other areas of improvement? To be honest, I like Davis and all, but if it's going to cost us most of our first-day picks this year and possibly even cut into next years with the Walker deal, I say no.

Green Bay can go pound sand, (I'd put in harsher terms, but I'll just take what SoCal said) if they think they deserve higher than #61 or #68 for Walker. I'm assuming a package will contain Lelie, so we should be keeping one of those picks.

Not sure what we'll all have to do to get up to #4/#5, but this **** is going to be blockbuster if it goes down. Hell, if Denver only has #5 on the first day, that saves me 4-5 hours and I can go play softball.

[GonzoLays]

Well, this is no slam on Wabbit -- as his post was no slam on me, but if I remember correctly, he stated his contact was a good friend of a writer for the Milwaukee-Sentinel. Maybe they're just not hearing the same things, and I don't think it's totally out of the realm of possibilty that there is confusion when it comes to reporting what's going on.

Who knows if there is truth anywhere in this (I think there is) - but I thought it'd be nice to report anyways.

It makes things fun.

If you are right on just one pick or trade I will devote a whole thread to your greatness and my stupidity for even questioning your air tight source.

Until then color me cynical.

[broncohaven]

I'm not sure we're selling the farm completely. Sounds to me that we're selling all of the pigs, cows, horses, and machinery (I'll throw in Mock for free!) but not the land itself. I'm all for moving up to be honest. I know how much depth there is in this draft. I spend countless hours looking over tons of these guys, trying to get a better idea of when they'll be available and how suitable they are for the Broncos. That being said, I don't believe VD is the guy to move up for... not at a hefty price anyway. If the Broncos came out and said we're trading Ash, #15, #61, and a 2nd in next year's draft for VD and Walker I would say GREAT! If the Broncos came out and said we're trading Ash, #15, #37, #68 and a 3rd next year for Walker and #5 I'd be upset. But, I would take that deal for Mario or VY. It'll all work out in the end I'm sure. We're up to something and it's making this draft interesting. Who am I to complain, I wanted action and I'm finally getting some!
I agree. I've looked at every video I could find and all the games I taped throughout the year, read 10,000 articles, and I've decided that there are four freaks in this draft and the Broncos should do whatever they need to in order to get one. Mario WIlliams, Vernon Davis, Vince Young, and Manny Lawson. Davis is #1 in my book because our TE situation is dire, and TE is a key to Shanahan's offense.

Sharpe was perhaps the pivotal player on offense during the SB years. Davis would force teams into the nickle package which would stack the cards in favor of the running game, which would open up the passing game, and the cycle continues. Davis would have more impact on the offense than any player in this rookie class. If we could add Walker at the same time the offense would improve dramatically.

[Requiem]

If you are right on just one pick or trade I will devote a whole thread to your greatness and my stupidity for even questioning your air tight source.

Until then color me cynical.

I'm never claiming to be right, nor is my source. He's just relaying what he hears to me, so I can give it to you -- because he knows how interested I am and a lot of you are in the draft. I thought it'd be great discussion, even if some of this doesn't go down. I don't think any of this is complete BS, but as I've stated earlier -- who knows what's going to happen and where the actual news is at.

I don't need praise, I won't be giving any I told you so's -- I'll just sit back and enjoy the fact I could help give some information to the good fellas and ladies on the Orange Mane. I think I'm fortunate to get to talk to some of the people I do, (who usually have a good track record on things) and being able to share it with the people here makes it even better.

I'm just glad to be here with you guys and have the opportunity to share. I plan to do so up until the final seconds we're on and off the clock this year and in future years to come, if I happen to live past 19. :)

[Rohirrim]

Hell, if Denver only has #5 on the first day, that saves me 4-5 hours and I can go play softball.

Please don't say that again. thwack

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I know Walker has plenty of talent, but you would think that any deal made for him would have to be conditional based on his recover.

[SDOGO]

I thought it was about high time I introduced myself to you guys. I'm the guy on the other end that Requiem has been speaking to.

Let me start out by saying the critisism and nay saying is expected in this line of work. Even the most highly respected a known "guru's" take their share of heat. I'm not hear to fire back or tell you that my word is the gospel. I'm just here to let you know a little about myself and hopefully clear the air.

Maybe a little history about myself would be a good place to start.

Back in the summer of 1995 I was lucky enough to land a job with the Cleveland Browns working in their front office as nothing more then a glorified mail guy. While there I worked on sites such as NFL Draft Blitz and The Huddle Report. I passed along my work to one of the most well respected NFL scouts at the time, Gary Horton. Gary encouraged me to follow my dream and that winter I started my own site called The End Zone. Shortly after in the winter of 95' and into the spring of 96' I suffered a set back while batteling cancer. Upon my return Gary took me under his wing and allowed me to work as an intern in the Browns scouting Dept. When Gary left Cleveland in 97' I moved on and accepted a job with the Buffalo Bills scouting Dept under David Hinson who is now the head scout for the New Orleans Saints. I served as scout for the Bills until 2002.

In Novemeber of 2002 Gary Horton became a lead analizer for TSN and ESPN. He offered me a job and I quickly accepted it. Just 2 months ago I was offered a position on the TSN War Room Scouts. I also took on smaller roler with Fox Sports and recently with PFW (Pro Football Weekly)

Over the course of 10 years I have been able to acquire media credentials from 26 NFL Teams, AP recognition, Super Bowl Credentials and just this last week I have been added to a list of nominees that will be chosen to serve on the AP College Football Rankings.

I spent a good majority of those 10 years building relationships with GM's, scouts and field writers. Some of whom are the most respected in their fields.

Unlike many who do this job it's not all business for me. I'm still a fan first and I can't forget where I came from which is why you will still find me posting my work on internet message boards among friends. If that makes me some random "internet" writer or poster then I accept the title.

My reputation is pretty solid. Anyone who follows me will tell you my hit rate is pretty darn good.

With that, I just want to thank everyone for reading. Part of the fun of the draft is the speculation. I just try to deliver the latest and best info I can and in the end if I'm right good for me, if I'm not I move onto the next story.

I hope to see you guys around and enjoy this. It's the best time of they year;D

[RunYouOver26]

I thought it was about high time I introduced myself to you guys. I'm the guy on the other end that Requiem has been speaking to.

Let me start out by saying the critisism and nay saying is expected in this line of work. Even the most highly respected a known "guru's" take their share of heat. I'm not hear to fire back or tell you that my word is the gospel. I'm just here to let you know a little about myself and hopefully clear the air.

Maybe a little history about myself would be a good place to start.

Back in the summer of 1995 I was lucky enough to land a job with the Cleveland Browns working in their front office as nothing more then a glorified mail guy. While there I worked on sites such as NFL Draft Blitz and The Huddle Report. I passed along my work to one of the most well respected NFL scouts at the time, Gary Horton. Gary encouraged me to follow my dream and that winter I started my own site called The End Zone. Shortly after in the winter of 95' and into the spring of 96' I suffered a set back while batteling cancer. Upon my return Gary took me under his wing and allowed me to work as an intern in the Browns scouting Dept. When Gary left Cleveland in 97' I moved on and accepted a job with the Buffalo Bills scouting Dept under David Hinson who is now the head scout for the New Orleans Saints. I served as scout for the Bills until 2002.

In Novemeber of 2002 Gary Horton became a lead analizer for TSN and ESPN. He offered me a job and I quickly accepted it. Just 2 months ago I was offered a position on the TSN War Room Scouts. I also took on smaller roler with Fox Sports and recently with PFW (Pro Football Weekly)

Over the course of 10 years I have been able to acquire media credentials from 26 NFL Teams, AP recognition, Super Bowl Credentials and just this last week I have been added to a list of nominees that will be chosen to serve on the AP College Football Rankings.

I spent a good majority of those 10 years building relationships with GM's, scouts and field writers. Some of whom are the most respected in their fields.

Unlike many who do this job it's not all business for me. I'm still a fan first and I can't forget where I came from which is why you will still find me posting my work on internet message boards among friends. If that makes me some random "internet" writer or poster then I accept the title.

My reputation is pretty solid. Anyone who follows me will tell you my hit rate is pretty darn good.

With that, I just want to thank everyone for reading. Part of the fun of the draft is the speculation. I just try to deliver the latest and best info I can and in the end if I'm right good for me, if I'm not I move onto the next story.

I hope to see you guys around and enjoy this. It's the best time of they year;D


Keep us updated, please!!!:thumbs:

[SpringStein]

I know Walker has plenty of talent, but you would think that any deal made for him would have to be conditional based on his recover.

I'm even more concerned to give up a high pick for what could easily be a one year rental.

[Gcver2ver3]

I thought it was about high time I introduced myself to you guys. I'm the guy on the other end that Requiem has been speaking to.

Let me start out by saying the critisism and nay saying is expected in this line of work. Even the most highly respected a known "guru's" take their share of heat. I'm not hear to fire back or tell you that my word is the gospel. I'm just here to let you know a little about myself and hopefully clear the air.

Maybe a little history about myself would be a good place to start.

Back in the summer of 1995 I was lucky enough to land a job with the Cleveland Browns working in their front office as nothing more then a glorified mail guy. While there I worked on sites such as NFL Draft Blitz and The Huddle Report. I passed along my work to one of the most well respected NFL scouts at the time, Gary Horton. Gary encouraged me to follow my dream and that winter I started my own site called The End Zone. Shortly after in the winter of 95' and into the spring of 96' I suffered a set back while batteling cancer. Upon my return Gary took me under his wing and allowed me to work as an intern in the Browns scouting Dept. When Gary left Cleveland in 97' I moved on and accepted a job with the Buffalo Bills scouting Dept under David Hinson who is now the head scout for the New Orleans Saints. I served as scout for the Bills until 2002.

In Novemeber of 2002 Gary Horton became a lead analizer for TSN and ESPN. He offered me a job and I quickly accepted it. Just 2 months ago I was offered a position on the TSN War Room Scouts. I also took on smaller roler with Fox Sports and recently with PFW (Pro Football Weekly)

Over the course of 10 years I have been able to acquire media credentials from 26 NFL Teams, AP recognition, Super Bowl Credentials and just this last week I have been added to a list of nominees that will be chosen to serve on the AP College Football Rankings.

I spent a good majority of those 10 years building relationships with GM's, scouts and field writers. Some of whom are the most respected in their fields.

Unlike many who do this job it's not all business for me. I'm still a fan first and I can't forget where I came from which is why you will still find me posting my work on internet message boards among friends. If that makes me some random "internet" writer or poster then I accept the title.

My reputation is pretty solid. Anyone who follows me will tell you my hit rate is pretty darn good.

With that, I just want to thank everyone for reading. Part of the fun of the draft is the speculation. I just try to deliver the latest and best info I can and in the end if I'm right good for me, if I'm not I move onto the next story.

I hope to see you guys around and enjoy this. It's the best time of they year;D


Wow....

if all what you just posted is true (and i think it is)....welcome to the mane!

great post....you didn't have to do that...so i for one think it's pretty cool that you did...

i hope you continue to post here.....don't make a cameo....be a regular!

either way...thanks for your background....that takes class....

whether you're right or wrong....i appreciate the info....gives me something to think about through my daily grind!...:thumbs:

[Man-Goblin]

I thought it was about high time I introduced myself to you guys. I'm the guy on the other end that Requiem has been speaking to.

Let me start out by saying the critisism and nay saying is expected in this line of work. Even the most highly respected a known "guru's" take their share of heat. I'm not hear to fire back or tell you that my word is the gospel. I'm just here to let you know a little about myself and hopefully clear the air.

Maybe a little history about myself would be a good place to start.

Back in the summer of 1995 I was lucky enough to land a job with the Cleveland Browns working in their front office as nothing more then a glorified mail guy. While there I worked on sites such as NFL Draft Blitz and The Huddle Report. I passed along my work to one of the most well respected NFL scouts at the time, Gary Horton. Gary encouraged me to follow my dream and that winter I started my own site called The End Zone. Shortly after in the winter of 95' and into the spring of 96' I suffered a set back while batteling cancer. Upon my return Gary took me under his wing and allowed me to work as an intern in the Browns scouting Dept. When Gary left Cleveland in 97' I moved on and accepted a job with the Buffalo Bills scouting Dept under David Hinson who is now the head scout for the New Orleans Saints. I served as scout for the Bills until 2002.

In Novemeber of 2002 Gary Horton became a lead analizer for TSN and ESPN. He offered me a job and I quickly accepted it. Just 2 months ago I was offered a position on the TSN War Room Scouts. I also took on smaller roler with Fox Sports and recently with PFW (Pro Football Weekly)

Over the course of 10 years I have been able to acquire media credentials from 26 NFL Teams, AP recognition, Super Bowl Credentials and just this last week I have been added to a list of nominees that will be chosen to serve on the AP College Football Rankings.

I spent a good majority of those 10 years building relationships with GM's, scouts and field writers. Some of whom are the most respected in their fields.

Unlike many who do this job it's not all business for me. I'm still a fan first and I can't forget where I came from which is why you will still find me posting my work on internet message boards among friends. If that makes me some random "internet" writer or poster then I accept the title.

My reputation is pretty solid. Anyone who follows me will tell you my hit rate is pretty darn good.

With that, I just want to thank everyone for reading. Part of the fun of the draft is the speculation. I just try to deliver the latest and best info I can and in the end if I'm right good for me, if I'm not I move onto the next story.

I hope to see you guys around and enjoy this. It's the best time of they year;D

Cool man. It was nothing personal, I just didn't see what someone within the organization had to gain by revealing details of an ongoing discussion. I hope you post more though, as I love to read insider dirt and speculation.

[kamakazi_kal]

thank for the info "internet" writer guy keep it coming ,,... u2 requiem

as for me i hope we trade with the jets so we get mario or bush......cmon kubes you owe us.. ^5

great first post BTW

[Requiem]

Hey SDOGO, thanks for coming here. Also, thanks for being a good source for stuff. I owe you so much. :)

[Atlas]

Back in the summer of 1995 I was lucky enough to land a job with the Cleveland Browns working in their front office as nothing more then a glorified mail guy. While there I worked on sites such as NFL Draft Blitz and The Huddle Report. I passed along my work to one of the most well respected NFL scouts at the time, Gary Horton. Gary encouraged me to follow my dream and that winter I started my own site called The End Zone. Shortly after in the winter of 95' and into the spring of 96' I suffered a set back while batteling cancer. Upon my return Gary took me under his wing and allowed me to work as an intern in the Browns scouting Dept. When Gary left Cleveland in 97' I moved on and accepted a job with the Buffalo Bills scouting Dept under David Hinson who is now the head scout for the New Orleans Saints.

I once knew a guy named Greg Horton. He worked at a sawmill in Spearfish S.D., no relation I imagine???

[SDOGO]

Cool man. It was nothing personal, I just didn't see what someone within the organization had to gain by revealing details of an ongoing discussion. I hope you post more though, as I love to read insider dirt and speculation.

I don't take much peronally. I learned a long time ago that it's pointless to try and win a internet battle of words. It takes many years of doing this and many more of building trust to get sources you can rely on. You would be surprised at how many insiders are willing to dish a little info. It's takes a life time to decide which one's you can trust.

[kamakazi_kal]

i just want somthing to happen that will screw the raiders...... in anyway at all :wiggle:

down with the fade

[Atlas]

i just want somthing to happen that will screw the raiders...... in anyway at all :wiggle:

down with the fade

Hopefully they will draft Vince Young.

[SDOGO]

I once knew a guy named Greg Horton. He worked at a sawmill in Spearfish S.D., no relation I imagine???

lol, that I don't know. Gary has 3 older brothers so I guess it's a possibility.

[big56fan#1]

Instead of VD Id like to see Mario Williams in a bronco uniform if hes there.

[RunYouOver26]

lol, that I don't know. Gary has 3 older brothers so I guess it's a possibility.


When do you think you'll be able to update us next?

[OrangeShadow]

Instead of VD Id like to see Mario Williams in a bronco uniform if hes there.

He wont get past NO at 2 IMO