Are we an elite club?

[loborugger]

Are the Broncos an elite club in the NFL (Ya, its the off season, and I bored).

First, the case for them.

They've appeared in the last 3 post season. They finished 13-3 in the regular season last year, and hosted the AFC title game. They defeated both Super Bowl contenders from the previous season three times, including knocking the Pats outta the play offs. Their defense is solid on its worst day and suffocating on a good day. Last season they won the games they should have (like the Jets & Raiders at home) and won games they shoulda lost (like the Skins and Ravens). They had some hard road victories, like at Dallas and at Jacksonville. Finally, they have a very good owner, a great coach with 2 rings, and a solid organization.

Now, the case against them.

While appearing in the past 3 post seasons, they are a total of 1-4 in those games. They have no offensive players that strike fear into opponents. They have lost a total of 15 games over the last 3 seasons, for an average season finish of approx 11-5. While this is good, it is hardly dominate. One 13-3 season does not elite make.

Adding it all together, I would say we arent yet, but close.

Which brings me to the next point. Who is elite? And how do we measure elite status - which is of course subjective...

I would nominate 2 teams for elite status.

1. The Steelers. Their biggest credential is their recent SB victory. However, they are sound team year in and out. They draft very well, and they are perenial play off contenders. They have good ownership and coaches.

2. The Pats. A long list of credentials... plus, I think they will be contenders again next year. Many of their problems last year (not all of them - and I am NO Pats apologist) were related to injuries.

They are the 2 elite teams, as I see it. If I were to nominate 1 team from the NFC, it would be the Panthers. They've played in 2 of the last 3 NFC title games, and are also perenial play off contenders. Again, they have good ownership and coaching. However, I dont see them as an elite team... just as I dont see the Seahawks or Colts as elite teams.

Bringing up the Hawks, I feel they are on the cusp (the same as us) for the same reason. Consistency. Both teams need to prove they are for real, from game 1 to the last game... on the road and at home.... on defense and on offense.

So, I say not yet, but close.

Am I wrong? Whatdoyathink???

[watermock]

Yeah, you named the two teams that have won the last 4 of 5 superbowls.

Earth Shattering.

[OrangeShadow]

not quite but i think we are close

Losing anderson- i think dayne is ready to step it up big time
Pryce-he didnt produce while he was here last year anyway

the draft is gonna make or break the year

[Popps]

I know our winning % through the 80s and 90s was as good as anyone. We took a dip during the Griese years, but we've been back in black since Plummer got to town. I can't imagine there are many sports franchises that have been consistently more successful over the past 20 years or so.

[watermock]

Denver wasn't in the red when Griese played here, your full of it.

[loborugger]

Yeah, you named the two teams that have won the last 4 of 5 superbowls.

Earth Shattering.

Well, on that note... I did pick one club that has one on SB (the Steelers) and left another (the Bucs) off.

Besides trouncing the Raiders in the SB :rofl: what else have the Bucs done in recent years. The Steelers have a knack of getting to the AFC title game - just to lose (exception last year).

While SBs play a role, large role, they dont count for everything. Besides... the Pats have won 3 of the last 5 so you have to look elsewhere.

Whats your list - or are you just here to take a shot and move on?

[loborugger]

I know our winning % through the 80s and 90s was as good as anyone.

Ya, I see your point. Using that logic, we could also put the Packers on the list - as I believe they have won the most games since 92 (when Favre took over). Therefore, we should also put the Colts and probably the Rams on the list. Which leads to the question of how many teams can be on an "elite" list and the list still be elite? Certainly, 15 teams cant be elite.

[watermock]

Denver went 11-5 in 2000.

Denver went 6-10 in 1999

8-8 in 2001.

9-7 in 2002.

33-30 If my math is right.

[61Vikefan]

I think Vikings fans certainly consider Denver one of the Elite teams, especially since they field one of the best running games year in and out.

[loborugger]

I think Vikings fans certainly consider Denver one of the Elite teams, especially since they field one of the best running games year in and out.

Do you second this notion Mock - as a Vikes fan... :rofl:

[watermock]

I have filed papers allready.

[Popps]

Denver went 11-5 in 2000.

Denver went 6-10 in 1999

8-8 in 2001.

9-7 in 2002.

33-30 If my math is right.

I think the question was whether we were elite. We're 33-15 over the last 3 seasons. Comparing that to the prior few, where you said we were 33-30, I'd say one is elite and one is not.

We had some bad seasons in the 80s/90s, too. The point was that besides a run of mediocrity under Griese, this team has been elite, at least since the mid 90s..

[SoCalBronco]

No, not currently.

[WaffleBoy]

sounds about right.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[watermock]

My point is that during the "dark years" of Griese we still had a winning record. This is the same time frame that Griese broke his shoulder, TD broke his knee and Sharpe went to Baltimore and we brought in Dale Carter and Wilson broke both shoulders. And we still had a winning record with Oakland on top of it's game at that time.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Their defense is solid on its worst day

False!

[61Vikefan]

I think the question was whether we were elite. We're 33-15 over the last 3 seasons. Comparing that to the prior few, where you said we were 33-30, I'd say one is elite and one is not.

We had some bad seasons in the 80s/90s, too. The point was that besides a run of mediocrity under Griese, this team has been elite, at least since the mid 90s..

In this day and age of aggressive free agency, going back 3 years is as far as you have to-teams change too quickly.

Denver is an elite club because of their run game and defense IMO.

[Rock Chalk]

No. Not even close.

[SoCalBronco]

Bob's not a virgin.

False!

[Northman]

We're close but not Elite

[Bob's your Information Minister]

As a Priest, I am required to take a vow of celibacy. I am offended, SoCal.

[Northman]

Great, a priest who has a hard on for Bobo Fett.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Could have been if they had actually done something in FA, and don't give me this crap that re-signing a few guys and losing some starters on a team that wasn't good enough to win it last year somehow means they're in the same boat again this year.

They better hit on some guys that come in and play well compared to vets. DWill and Foxy were very good rookies, but they got burned a lot more than people here seem willing to admit. The rookies this year have to play better than that if Denver wants to be elite.

[Northman]

Could have been if they had actually done something in FA, and don't give me this crap that re-signing a few guys and losing some starters on a team that wasn't good enough to win it last year somehow means they're in the same boat again this year.

They better hit on some guys that come in and play well compared to vets. DWill and Foxy were very good rookies, but they got burned a lot more than people here seem willing to admit. The rookies this year have to play better than that if Denver wants to be elite.


I still think that Foxy and Dwill got burned because of the lack of pressure up front. Granted, they were rookies but we still didnt get the kind of pressure we need to get to the next level. Plus, we have to quit settling for Fgs on offense and get more TDs. Either shore up the O-line or get some other playmakers on offense.

[SoCalBronco]

As a Priest

No wonder you were able to quickly find that Plummer reference on that gay blog you posted.

[HEAV]

Elite clubs win playoff games and challenge for a Super Bowl year in year out.

Not to mention when they are close to the top, they make player personal moves in the offseason.

[loborugger]

Not to mention when they are close to the top, they make player personal moves in the offseason.


I dont think we should judge our offseason personel moves yet. Just as we were mocked for all the Brownies last year, and they turned out OK, I think only time will tell on this offseason. I remember people getting excited about Dale Carter and IHOP, and look how that turned out. The truth is that FA is sorta like the draft... its a crap shoot. While some teams are definitely better than others at picking out talent in Free Agency and the draft, even the best falter more than a few times.

[Odysseus]

1. The management, coaches and front office learn from their mistakes and improve. Broncos fans are spoiled. There is no law against dumb business owners so it's hard to appreciate Mr. Bowlen always being at the forefront of all things NFL. A lot of stupid-ER rules would be in place if Bowlen didn't take the lead on some of those discussions. Are we perfect? No. The Broncos make a lot of critical and very stupid business mistakes. They didn't embrace their fan base when they pimped out the stadium name. They are now reaching back trying to fix that. They don't embrace their fans like they did in the past. The "unwashed public" should buy merchandise and sit politely in their seats. They are full of crap. That all said this where you judge if a team is elite. Are they about the BUSINESS of football.

2. This team likes to win. I'm not going to say getting in the playoffs every year knowing in advance they don't have the balls to finish is exciting. I'm not going to say having two Superbowls is any kind of qualified. My point is there are a LOT of teams who don't give a rat's butt about winning. There are some teams, who for a lack of better terminology, are welfare teams. If there was no revenue sharing, no players looking for a last shot, no markets that just wanted to have a team for a team's sake these guys would not exist. The Bengals sucked since before football was invented. A caveman caved ROFL Bengals. Don't ask me how I know. That team came back last year. They played well and they proved they want to win. You can't have it all and you can't have it every year. The Broncos want to win.

3. The Broncos fanbase is one of the best fan bases in all of sports. The city is awesome and the stadium is a crown jewel and something that ultimately does more good than harm. Where else in all of America can you ski and then go catch a quality football game? Where else can you have as easy access to players, stadium, and other fans without worrying about having to drop somebody because of their ill manners? You guys who are whimpering about this team need to follow the Saints for one season. I don't think you could take it.

4. I think the most important thing to an elite team is the coach. Mike Shanahan is actually why the Broncos are elite. He is hard headed, stubborn, overly analytical, judgemental, tempremental and oftentimes too funny for words but he's a good coach in a very difficult business. There isn't a man on this board I could imagine coaching this team better than him. Most of you think you know sports but all you know is numbers, spreadsheets, and the perfect world. NFL is not a perfect world. You have contracts, whining about things you cannot imagine, Al Davis, the insidious foul smelling fans who love you and hate you at the same time, the greedy, the manipulative, and the insane. I know they could do a better job at a lot of things but it comes down to dollars and time.

I guess if I were an insider I could afford to be judgemental, angry, and perpetually critical. I'm not. I'm just a guy who likes to drink beer with other Broncos fans. I like the simple life.

Someone should make a video game (RPG) about this crap. Maybe Taco should get a software engineer to design NFL SIM and demo the software globally...Oh yeah right....money. I guess this will have to do. :thanku:

[RunByDesign]

I agree with most of that, we just need to solidfy the results on the field for a couple of more seasons, then I think we can truly become elite.

Of course another Lombardi Trophy is necessarry.

[bpc]

Super bowls in the past 8 years... no... but I find it hard to believe that 31 teams and fans out there aren't jealous of our consistancy.

We are definitely an elite team, somebody to be feared year in and year out no matter what.

[Garcia Bronco]

"elite" imo is a stupid label...because the way the NFL is today the difference between winning and losing is miniscule. So we can call ourselves "elite" all we want to...it still doesn't help us win on Sundays.

[Odysseus]

When it comes to direct and brutal criticism of the Broncos I bet I can outdo ANYBODY on this board.

It still comes down to a matter of perception not expectation. I would love to say the Broncos have a shot at the Superbowl. If they went with their current roster they haven't a prayer.

If you take the Broncos as religion they actually do suck. I thought the question was as a football team are they elite and the answer is yes. They get in the playoffs every year.

If you are comparing it historically? I would say the Hall of fame is empty probably not. We have a long way to changing that so probably won't happen for at least 20 years.

It's easy to be critical of something you care about. The fact we ask this question every year means this team is doing something right and that is true measure of an elite team.

[Odysseus]

"elite" imo is a stupid label...because the way the NFL is today the difference between winning and losing is miniscule. So we can call ourselves "elite" all we want to...it still doesn't help us win on Sundays.

Exactly. Why do we have to always label this crap?

[Ratboy]

No, but we're close. We need a better offense to be considered "Elite"

[azbroncfan]

How the hell does anyone here no if Denver is elite or not? It's a guess and speculation.

[Crushaholic]

"Elite" according to whom? The media?ROFL! Screw the media. We don't need the label..

[Cito Pelon]

Denver is as close to being elite as a team can get. I'm happy with the off-season so far. It's a shame losing MA, he's been a warrior. I don;t mind at all not signing Abe, Owens, Ricky, Carter, or Walker. They weren't ready for prime time last year, let the brass ring slip out of their grasp, so we'll see if they know better this year. And I'm fine with that.

[BroncoMan4ever]

The Super Bowl Champion will come from the AFC once again. There are 4 maybe 5 teams that will b competing to b top dog in the AFC. Denver-if they get a dependable receiver with Rod, a strong every down back and a good pass rush they are the best in the AFC. Indianapolis-will stay strong even without James. Kansas City-if they can field a descent defense and keep the offense going strong they could compete. Cincinatti-if Palmer comes back healthy and doesn't miss a lot of time they can compete like last season. Last and possibly, but i doubt it, San Diego-if Rivers can come out and play like Rothlisberger and they get a receiver that team has all the tools to make a deep playoff run.

So with that those are the teams i feel will compete for the AFC spot in the Super Bowl. People will ask what about New England, plain and simple New England is going to b rebuilding this year, and more than likely Miami is there to take the division crown from them. 7-9
What about Pittsburgh, too many losses and they no longer have the win it for the bus inspiration. 8-8 at the best

Division champions
AFC East - Miami 11-5 record
AFC North - Cincinatti 10-6 record
AFC South - Indianapolis - 12-4 record
AFC West - Denver 13-3 record.
AFC Wildcards - Kansas City and Jacksonville

NFC East - Washington 12-4
NFC North - Chicago 11-5
NFC South - Carolina 11-5
NFC West - Seattle 10-6
NFC Wildcards - Giants and Minnesota

Super Bowl Denver over Carolina

this is my opinion, wat do u think tell ur opinion.

[penguintheory]

Indy is an elite club. Seattle is on our level, maybe a bit better because of their marquee RB.

[brother love]

When was the last time you can remember us having a truely bad team?

[Rock Chalk]

When was the last time you can remember us having a truely bad team?
The question wasnt if we have a good team, it was if we have an elite team.

An elite team has all parts of the machine working well.

We dont.

Our WR part is only partially working.

Our pass rush is completely broken.

Our run game is good, but no where near dominant like it was.

Our secondary and O-line are aces.

Our TE is broke.

Our QB gets broke under heavy pressure.

Our kick coverage still leaves much to be desired.

What, in teh above statements, makes any of you think this is an "elite" club?

Consider the last 7 superbowl champs.

All of which were solid in every aspect of the game (New England) or so dominant on one side of the ball that they could cover up their weaknesses on the other side. (St Louis, Tampa, Baltimore).

We are neither a complete team like NE nor are we so dominant on offense OR defense that they can make up for the iniquities on the otherside of the ball.

So, having went through this logically, there is no way in hell we are elite and its not even close.

[BroncoInferno]

Could have been if they had actually done something in FA, and don't give me this crap that re-signing a few guys and losing some starters on a team that wasn't good enough to win it last year somehow means they're in the same boat again this year.

The reason your pessimism is ill-founded is because of what our main competition did, or rather didn't do, in free agency themselves. The Colts, Steelers, Pats, and Chargers all suffered sigificant losses and did not add any FAs of note to compensate the losses or to fill other holes that already existed. We did not suffer any imperative losses. Pryce was OK at this point but on the downside of his career. I doubt at this juncture in Pryce's career that Lang will be that big of a drop off. Anderson is a hard working, but overall ordinary player who wore down as the season progressed. Dayne will be no worse than a lateral move, and they'll likely bring someone in through the draft who can push him and possibly be better (LenDale, Maroney, DW2, Addai, Drew are all guys who could fit that bill; deep RB class). Putz caught 37 passes with 0 TDs. Won't be too hard to replace that (I'm thinking Lewis, Fassano, Klop, Pope as guys we'll be in position to draft who can at least match that production right off, and let's not forget about Duke).

Your problem is you aren't looking at the full scope. If you only look at our team, yes, it looks about the same, which I would argue isn't a bad thing since we went 13-3 and hosted the AFC Championship game, but when you factor in the inactivity and losses of our main competition, we've actually probably nosed ahead of where we were. The draft will probably add a couple key contributers as well.

[watermock]

Your crazy if this isn't an elite team. If this one isn't, which is? Huh? Seattle, Dallas, Philly, Baltimore, the Jets, San Diego, Da Bears? Miami? Tampa Bay?

Who you kidding? Why not do this, name one team more elite than N.E. WHO WE BEAT TWICE LAST YEAR. Pitt is an elite team along with NE. That's it.

next.

[watermock]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/70379/annoying_friend/