Mock Drafts after trading 22

[SactownOrangeSunday]

Well this trade makes it far more likely to be cut and dry so to speak.


15. Reciever: either Holmes or Jackson

37. LenDale White: Power back to offset the homerun threat that Tatum Bell has displayed, sets up same situation as last year with running back by commitee.

61: TE: Klop or a DE.


Thoughts on the Trade:

Gotta admit I am NOT happy that we made this move. At some point we are going to need an impact player, a top five pick and this was our chance to move up. Yes, one player for two is not a great deal but we are only one or two players away in my opinion. We needed a game changing DE and we could have moved up to take Mario Williams or Vernon Davis.

[SoCalBronco]

I am not sure why you are implying that now cannot get an impact player because of this trade. This draft is full of impact players. All over Day 1 and spilling into Day 2 in fact.

In a draft where you have quality all over the place (with the exception of QB and WR) you go for quantity to accumulate talent.

[SactownOrangeSunday]

According to that logic why would you ever stay at 15 in order to draft a wr, the position that is traditionally the biggest shot in the dark in the entire draft. 15 is way to early to take a running back this year, if you want a DE we could have maybe moved up to top five and gotten Williams if things went our way or maybe Bush if he somehow fell to us.

If that doesnt work you trade for a number one next year and a number two and three for this year and you are in the same place, two seconds and a third with two firsts next year. Team like GB or the Texans might do this in order to grab another top five or ten draft pick in the same class, even though they lose a first rounder next year. Since the 15 is at best a shot in the dark with this years draft class and our needs, you could at least make an attempt and then if it doesnt go your way accumulate second round picks as your trade down constantly. I think this move was extremely short sighted and really annoys me.

[SoCalBronco]

According to that logic why would you ever stay at 15 in order to draft a wr, the position that is traditionally the biggest shot in the dark in the entire draft. 15 is way to early to take a running back this year, if you want a DE we could have maybe moved up to top five and gotten Williams if things went our way or maybe Bush if he somehow fell to us.

If that doesnt work you trade for a number one next year and a number two and three for this year and you are in the same place, two seconds and a third with two firsts next year. Team like GB or the Texans might do this in order to grab another top five or ten draft pick in the same class, even though they lose a first rounder next year. Since the 15 is at best a shot in the dark with this years draft class and our needs, you could at least make an attempt and then if it doesnt go your way accumulate second round picks as your trade down constantly. I think this move was extremely short sighted and really annoys me.

I am not in favor of taking a WR at 15, so I dont know why you are using that argument. If it is in fact the biggest shot in the dark position, than I would be in agreement that one shouldnt use such a pick on a WR. I am opposed to WR for us in this draft because I dont believe there is a single WR worthy of a first round selection much less a mid first round selection.

I dont agree that 15 is too early for RB. 15 is perfect for White or DW2 and it is okay for Maroney.

I dont understand the argument your trying to make about moving up. You dont give up a whole draft for Williams or Bush when a team like Denver has needs all over the place. Denver has a pressing need at RB given that MA played relatively poorly in the second half of the year and yet neither Bell nor Dayne were able to overtake him on the depth chart. Denver has the single worst TE situation in all of football. We have a guy who isnt even starting in Europe and a guy who is a decent blocker but a joke as a receiver. WR is precarious. Ash will be gone either during the draft or next year, Rod is almost as old as Moses and after that we have jack shiat. Right offensive guard is a weakness. The DEs on this team, as a unit, are well below average. Warren needs a powerful DT next to him. Denver has very little to look forward to in the near future at safety. Neither starter has any real athletic ability.

All these problems have to be addressed sufficiently and yet you feel we should shoot for the moon going for one player and gambling that the coaching staff can scheme their way around a growing multitude of talent based problems every week. This is comedy. Denver would be engaging in almost criminally negligent behavior to go all for one in a deep draft where they have to satisfy a number of needs just to keep pace with the rest of the conference.

[anthonypacino]

Well this trade makes it far more likely to be cut and dry so to speak.


15. Reciever: either Holmes or Jackson

37. LenDale White: Power back to offset the homerun threat that Tatum Bell has displayed, sets up same situation as last year with running back by commitee.

61: TE: Klop or a DE.


Thoughts on the Trade:

Gotta admit I am NOT happy that we made this move. At some point we are going to need an impact player, a top five pick and this was our chance to move up. Yes, one player for two is not a great deal but we are only one or two players away in my opinion. We needed a game changing DE and we could have moved up to take Mario Williams or Vernon Davis.
What impact player are we missing on at 22 that we can't get at 15?
This is not a deep draft in the areas that we are in need of...after Mario W the D-Line talent drops off big time. Most of the D-lineman are very comprable to each other so no need to try and get them all in the first when another VALUE player is there later. This move is fine by me in fact the team may be making more moves like trading Lelie and the 3rd to the Pack...I have a little more faith in Duke than SoCal does, I think he will be just as green as any rookie coming in this year. I wouldn't mind seeing Klop or Fasano here in the later rounds, they can do both block and catch, (Klop better hands, Fasano better blocking IMO)

[Drek]

Gotta admit I am NOT happy that we made this move. At some point we are going to need an impact player, a top five pick and this was our chance to move up. Yes, one player for two is not a great deal but we are only one or two players away in my opinion. We needed a game changing DE and we could have moved up to take Mario Williams or Vernon Davis.
Seriously, will some of you at least try getting in touch with reality? Mario Williams has started contract talks with the Texans, he's been the projected pick of the Saints since they signed Brees. He is universally considered the second best prospect in this draft, behind Reggie Bush, both being described as potential future HoF talents by many NFL scouting departments.

There was NO WAY we could trade up after him that we can't still do now. The only shot we have at Williams is if he slides down to 5, not very likely, and that hasn't changed with this trade. We can get up to the 5th pick if Green Bay is actually willing to deal, which I doubt, they're a stupid FO thinks their **** don't stink, you can't deal with teams like that.

[-Slap-]

According to that logic why would you ever stay at 15 in order to draft a wr, the position that is traditionally the biggest shot in the dark in the entire draft. 15 is way to early to take a running back this year, if you want a DE we could have maybe moved up to top five and gotten Williams if things went our way or maybe Bush if he somehow fell to us.

If that doesnt work you trade for a number one next year and a number two and three for this year and you are in the same place, two seconds and a third with two firsts next year. Team like GB or the Texans might do this in order to grab another top five or ten draft pick in the same class, even though they lose a first rounder next year. Since the 15 is at best a shot in the dark with this years draft class and our needs, you could at least make an attempt and then if it doesnt go your way accumulate second round picks as your trade down constantly. I think this move was extremely short sighted and really annoys me.
Defensive line is probably the biggest shot in the dark in the entire draft and that's position with the highest percentage of first round busts. Everybody wants pass rushers, so teams routinely reach for defensive ends who show any pass rush skills whatsoever.

The bust rate is just as high at DT. Most of these huge physical specimens can get by on sheer athletic ability in college. When they get to the pros, they're not the biggest, baddest player on the field anymore and offensive linemen are using much more sophisticated teamwork against them.

Now, I would much rather go DL than WR in round one, but I'm doing it with my eyes wide open.

[-Slap-]

Mario Williams could be another Julius Peppers, but he could be another Andre Wadsworth, too.

[Arkansas Bronco]

Mario Williams could be another Julius Peppers, but he could be another Andre Wadsworth, too.
Wadsworth realy never got a chance to do much his knees went out too fast.

[Rascal]

Scott Wright

Jackson
Hali
Klop
D Manning

Like the middle two picks.

[SactownOrangeSunday]

I am not in favor of taking a WR at 15, so I dont know why you are using that argument. If it is in fact the biggest shot in the dark position, than I would be in agreement that one shouldnt use such a pick on a WR. I am opposed to WR for us in this draft because I dont believe there is a single WR worthy of a first round selection much less a mid first round selection.

I dont agree that 15 is too early for RB. 15 is perfect for White or DW2 and it is okay for Maroney.

I dont understand the argument your trying to make about moving up. You dont give up a whole draft for Williams or Bush when a team like Denver has needs all over the place. Denver has a pressing need at RB given that MA played relatively poorly in the second half of the year and yet neither Bell nor Dayne were able to overtake him on the depth chart. Denver has the single worst TE situation in all of football. We have a guy who isnt even starting in Europe and a guy who is a decent blocker but a joke as a receiver. WR is precarious. Ash will be gone either during the draft or next year, Rod is almost as old as Moses and after that we have jack shiat. Right offensive guard is a weakness. The DEs on this team, as a unit, are well below average. Warren needs a powerful DT next to him. Denver has very little to look forward to in the near future at safety. Neither starter has any real athletic ability.

All these problems have to be addressed sufficiently and yet you feel we should shoot for the moon going for one player and gambling that the coaching staff can scheme their way around a growing multitude of talent based problems every week. This is comedy. Denver would be engaging in almost criminally negligent behavior to go all for one in a deep draft where they have to satisfy a number of needs just to keep pace with the rest of the conference.

Ok so even if you go by your logic we still wasted the 22 in a big way. You could have traded Lelie and the 22 for Walker and the Packs 2cnd, easily. The Pack want a replacement reciever and a number one for Walker, we give them that and we take a risk and get a high second. Denver is basically saying a third rounder has a better chance of being productive in a position that Walker plays than Walker is, even if he is coming of an injury, that is just wrong, and remember its a weak reciever draft to begin with.

My original way we move up and have the OPPORTUNITY to get someone we need that is an impact player, if that falls through we are in a fantastic position to give the Texans or someone who needs players a very high first round pick for their first round the following year, and second and third this year and guess what, same exact position we are in now because ......

RBs are late first rounders or early second rounders at best, besides Shannahan wont draft a first round rb, you know that. In addition, the top draft value for pass rushers is the second round, so now we are basically forced to trade the 15 for a number two and three in order to make the draft worthwhile. Thus we have traded both number ones away for seconds and thirds that the draft is weak at in positions we need.

TE are second late second rounders in most cases... we are already there. High second which we have after trading a top five pick to someone for we can get a RB.

[SoCalBronco]

Ok so even if you go by your logic we still wasted the 22 in a big way.


How do you figure? My whole argument was we need to trade down because we have alot of needs. How does my logic equate with "wasting 22"?


You could have traded Lelie and the 22 for Walker and the Packs 2cnd, easily.

Show me where GB said they would accept this deal

The Pack want a replacement reciever and a number one for Walker, we give them that and we take a risk and get a high second.

Again, when did GB say they would take this specific deal. They have said they want a first, but in this deal, they arent getting first round value when it all comes out. Its like 3rd/4th round value maybe (when you take into account that they want that first round value OUTSIDE of any trade for their pick). They have already rejected on the record a 4th round offer from Denver. Produce PROOF they would accept this deal. I dont see it.

Denver is basically saying a third rounder has a better chance of being productive in a position that Walker plays than Walker is, even if he is coming of an injury, that is just wrong, and remember its a weak reciever draft to begin with.

Your not taking into account all of the considerations at play. It is not simply him. Its the injury and its the huge salary burden that would accompany it. Ballhawk has persuaded me sort of on this point from where I was yesterday, although I still think the issue could be overcome. But its a big issue. He wants to get paid NOW, this was the root of the problem. This is why we are at this point. If he gets PAID now, Denver assumes the risk, which is great. If its his regular deal, he is a FA and Ballhawk said we dont necessarily have the right to franchise him because he hasnt been on our team for 3 years. (I would like confirmation of this from Herc). The salary issue is being swept under the rug by you.

My original way we move up and have the OPPORTUNITY to get someone we need that is an impact player, if that falls through we are in a fantastic position to give the Texans or someone who needs players a very high first round pick for their first round the following year, and second and third this year and guess what, same exact position we are in now because ......

It is irresponsible to shoot for the moon and put all your eggs in one basket when I have established (and you did not contest) that there are a great number of significant needs.

RBs are late first rounders or early second rounders at best, besides Shannahan wont draft a first round rb, you know that.

We said the same about Foster and OTs. Shanny expressed his desire the last two years to get a real Stud Buffalo in the backfield. Not just marginal guys who can produce decently but not hugely due to the system.

In addition, the top draft value for pass rushers is the second round, so now we are basically forced to trade the 15 for a number two and three in order to make the draft worthwhile.

Where has it been established that we will take DE at 15. I dont think thats the consensus anywhere. Im certainly not in favor of it either, although Kiwi or Hali would be okay there, I would prefer to get one of them at 37 where one may still be.

Thus we have traded both number ones away for seconds and thirds that the draft is weak at in positions we need.
TE are second late second rounders in most cases... we are already there.

In whose opinion? Why should we make sweeping generalizations when we can simply analyze each prospect. In my opinion, Marcedes Lewis is not only a first round pick but is the best TE in the draft. Leonard Pope is also a first rounder in my opinion. This is generally acknowledged to be an excellent draft for TEs.

High second which we have after trading a top five pick to someone for we can get a RB.

We still disagree on a number of issues as you can see.

[Paladin]

Trading schemes require two participants. I understand the Broncos' FO talked to three teams above the 49ers and were turned down.

I thik they are trying hard, but other teams wane VD or Mario or Cutler or whomever.

[Finger Roll]

I agree with you. We need a big time player not some stupid 3rd round pick. If we were trying to rebuild then yeah I would like this deal but since we did make it to the f-ing AFC title game last year, what's the point in trading down?

[SoCalBronco]

I agree with you. We need a big time player not some stupid 3rd round pick. If we were trying to rebuild then yeah I would like this deal but since we did make it to the f-ing AFC title game last year, what's the point in trading down?

Because we need to rebuild. If you think we could trot out the team we have right now, right at this moment and get to the AFC Title game (or even the 2nd round) you would be wrong.
QB- Same
RBs- Worse.
WRs- About to be worse or at best the same (if ash stays).
TEs- Worse.
OL- Same.
DE- Worse. (Even if you dont like Pryce, we are still worse off without him. Dont bring up Lang, be realistic.)
DT- Same
LB- Same
CB- Same
S- Same
ST- Same.

We arent as well off as last season. We are not BETTER in even ONE area.

We need a fresh infusion of young talent almost ACROSS THE BOARD.

[ludo21]

Great post SoCal.

The whole team is aging, and in this deep draft, we have a great opportunity to hit on every pick, or at least half of them.

Thats 5 fresh new starters in a couple years.

[Finger Roll]

the fact that we moved down 15 spots just for a 3rd round pick wich will probably be a crappy player anyway since 80% of them suck. I don't care how deep this draft is suppose to be. I mean look at all the 3rd round picks we've drafted the last 20 years and tell me how many of them were any good. Maybe 3 or 4.

[ludo21]

the fact that we moved down 15 spots just for a 3rd round pick wich will probably be a crappy player anyway since 80% of them suck. I don't care how deep this draft is suppose to be. I mean look at all the 3rd round picks we've drafted the last 20 years and tell me how many of them were any good. Maybe 3 or 4.


none of those drafts had legit 2nd rounders falling into the 2nd day.

[NFLBRONCO]

Look at all the 1st 2nd and 3rd round busts we have made staying put. Denver is a team that reaches alot this is why we flop alot. I'll take as many picks as possible better odds on hitting on someone. If Denver stops trying to outsmart everybody by (living on finding a TD sleeper type player every pick) and draft value we can improve our success rate.

[Finger Roll]

Look at all the 1st 2nd and 3rd round busts we have made staying put. Denver is a team that reaches alot this is why we flop alot. I'll take as many picks as possible better odds on hitting on someone. If Denver stops trying to outsmart everybody by (living on finding a TD sleeper type player every pick) and draft value we can improve our success rate.

yeah I agree. They always seam to pick a guy 2 rounds before he was suppose to go and everybody gets all pissed off. Including myself.

[broncoback]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">After the Maurice Clarrett fiasco, I don't think the Broncos should even look at an RB early in the draft. The primary need is a big play WR and securing the future QB. This team cannot afford to wait for Chad Jackson if he's available with their first first-rounder. No RB should be drafted by the Broncos until the second day.</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
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[bcbronc]

Because we need to rebuild. If you think we could trot out the team we have right now, right at this moment and get to the AFC Title game (or even the 2nd round) you would be wrong.
QB- Same
RBs- Worse.
WRs- About to be worse or at best the same (if ash stays).
TEs- Worse.
OL- Same.
DE- Worse. (Even if you dont like Pryce, we are still worse off without him. Dont bring up Lang, be realistic.)
DT- Same
LB- Same
CB- Same
S- Same
ST- Same.

We arent as well off as last season. We are not BETTER in even ONE area.

We need a fresh infusion of young talent almost ACROSS THE BOARD.


i think saying we need to rebuild might be jumping the gun a little bit. we have some holes to plug, but we are hardly entering a rebuilding phase.

i think you would have to say the CB's are improved over last year simply on the strength of darrent and fox not being rookies.

im also of the opinion that we will be better at RB with dayne and bell than we were with MA. MA was great, but he got worn out late in the season. the way dayne ran the toss excites me, and i think as of right now we are better here than last year.

and i think TE is about the same as last year. alexander is still alexander. and duke is raw, but he still caught more TD's than putz did last season. from what i have heard (havent seen any nflE games myself), his blocking is looking good in europe. id still love to add a TE in the 2nd or 3rd round, but i dont think losing putz really makes us a worse team.

even WR, depending on ash and javon, could be better. getting dinger in working with terrell (who has talent if he can get his head together) and watts (who can get open, now just needs to hold on to the ball), gives us the potential for a big upgrade at 3 and 4.

but i do agree with the jist of what you are getting at. 4 first day picks in this draft is a wonderful thing.