Troops are re-enlisting at record rate.

[cutthemdown]

I was suprised to read this. I guess the boys fighting this war don't want to leave it unfinished.http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20060414.aspx

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I guess the boys fighting this war don't want to leave it

Sorry, but this conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

BTW, the article you linked (which doesn't identify the sources from which it gets its stats) doesn't say that "troops are re-enlisting at record rate" - it says
"in the last six months, the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more soldiers re-enlist than expected."

[Crushaholic]

It mentions the re-enlistment bonuses that are certainly an incentive, but logic would say that Iraq is not the quagmire that the left likes to portray it. No amount of money is worth going back to a "hopeless cause". We must be making progress in that country...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It mentions the re-enlistment bonuses that are certainly an incentive, but logic would say that Iraq is not the quagmire that the left likes to portray it.

Once again, this conclusion doesn't follow from the premise. There are numerous reasons why soldiers choose to re-enlist.

These stats (if they are even legit - the article doesn't cite any sources) certainly don't disconfirm everything that is known about the situation in Iraq.

And it's disingenuous for you to claim that only those on "the left" believe Bush's Iraq invasion/occupation is a bad idea when a clear majority of the American people share this view.

No amount of money is worth going back to a "hopeless cause".

You've obviously never been poor and/or have never served in the military.

A lot of people join (and subsequently re-up) because they have no other options.

And just because a lot of people (from the top brass on down) try really hard to pretend Iraq isn't a hopeless cause doesn't mean it isn't a hopeless cause.

They have to believe in lies to some degree in order to survive.

We must be making progress in that country...

There isn't a positive correlation between re-enlistment stats and some vaguely-defined political notion of "progress."

Surely you're bright enough to realize this.

[gunns]

It mentions the re-enlistment bonuses that are certainly an incentive, but logic would say that Iraq is not the quagmire that the left likes to portray it. No amount of money is worth going back to a "hopeless cause". We must be making progress in that country...

A lot of it is the money. What's out here, at home, are jobs that aren't going to take care of families unless they take two and some of these bonus's would pad some savings accounts. In the military families live rent free, utility free so the pluses for the family can appear to be the logical choice. The other side is those that have been to Iraq (all reenlisting have not) are going back for their comrades, not necessarily the "cause". I didn't see what was expected so 15% of what could be 0 is only 15%. And considering it is a military site, it's also promotional.

[epicSocialism4tw]

A lot of it is the money. What's out here, at home, are jobs that aren't going to take care of families unless they take two and some of these bonus's would pad some savings accounts.

Death is a heavy price to pay for that little bit of security. Im sure that you consider security as well, but we're talking about going to fight in a war here.

[gunns]

Death is a heavy price to pay for that little bit of security. Im sure that you consider security as well, but we're talking about going to fight in a war here.

Security? How about just everyday getting by.

[Rigs11]

It mentions the re-enlistment bonuses that are certainly an incentive, but logic would say that Iraq is not the quagmire that the left likes to portray it. No amount of money is worth going back to a "hopeless cause". We must be making progress in that country...
Ah yes the left are the ones that portray the quagmire. Hell turn on the tv, read the paper, people are being killed daily in iraq. Including our soldiers. Hell if you don't like our "leftist" media than why not try international sources. They're repoting the same things, because Iraq is a mess.As for the soldiers reinlisting, I salute them for their bravery and yet despise the moron in the white house who still has no exit strategy and keeps supporting idiots like dumbsfeld.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I was suprised to read this. I guess the boys fighting this war don't want to leave it unfinished.http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20060414.aspx

Just where does that dubious article state "Troops are re-enlisting at record rate"???

It says "the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more soldiers re-enlist than expected". What was expected? Probably not much since the enlistment rate has plummeted since Bush started his war.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Just where does that dubious article state "Troops are re-enlisting at record rate"???

:laugh:

It doesn't.

Just more evidence that the few remaining bush jock riders out there have less and less to cling to these days.

[TailgateNut]

Just where does that dubious article state "Troops are re-enlisting at record rate"???

It says "the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more soldiers re-enlist than expected". What was expected? Probably not much since the enlistment rate has plummeted since Bush started his war.


LOL what's that song that comes to mind? "....nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'...". 15% of 0 equals 0.
...and we must remember, draft papers will be ready once the WarGod decides to invade Iran.

[defenseman]

The media, sadly, is NOT reporting the part of the war. I have friends over there now, not to say that it's terrilbly good, however numerous daily successes wrt mission accomplishment by our guys day to day is simply not reported. One of my buddies goes out of his way to try to get the good stuff reported, the reporter in question simply stated, "the good stuff doesn't sell", so we don't report it. Take it for what it's worth. I correspond with these guys often.
Second, the main thrust of the guys on the ground staying put is to "finish the job". Yeah, they are there for there comrades , agreed, but the money? It has some impact on it , but not as much as you would be lead to believe. Trust me.
Quagmire? Not even in the ball park. Alot of the Warzone is pretty much cleaned out. Yes, there will be the occassional outbreak here and there. And it is quickly snapped up by the press and put onto our TV's. However, for the most part, resistance is in key areas of insurgency strongholds and it will take more time to clean them out. Are we making headway, yes. Would the media like you to think we are making headway?, no. It doesn't sell newspapers...dman

[Bronx33]

I was suprised to read this. I guess the boys fighting this war don't want to leave it unfinished.http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20060414.aspx


They want to finish the job right and sending in new boots every year slows down the progress, these are great men and woman some never truely give them the credit they deserve.

[bendog]

The media, sadly, is NOT reporting the part of the war. I have friends over there now, not to say that it's terrilbly good, however numerous daily successes wrt mission accomplishment by our guys day to day is simply not reported. One of my buddies goes out of his way to try to get the good stuff reported, the reporter in question simply stated, "the good stuff doesn't sell", so we don't report it. Take it for what it's worth. I correspond with these guys often.
Second, the main thrust of the guys on the ground staying put is to "finish the job". Yeah, they are there for there comrades , agreed, but the money? It has some impact on it , but not as much as you would be lead to believe. Trust me.
Quagmire? Not even in the ball park. Alot of the Warzone is pretty much cleaned out. Yes, there will be the occassional outbreak here and there. And it is quickly snapped up by the press and put onto our TV's. However, for the most part, resistance is in key areas of insurgency strongholds and it will take more time to clean them out. Are we making headway, yes. Would the media like you to think we are making headway?, no. It doesn't sell newspapers...dman
Of course the troops are doing good things, and of course they'll not let their comrades down. They did good things in Vietnam and every other war. Do you think the guys who volunteered for second and third tours in that war did it cause they believed the politicians and generals? This is the US Army (and marines). However, geopolitically, our invasion of Iraq is a propaganda and geopolitical victory for Iran. And, the Army is too busted up to take them on.

[defenseman]

According to my buddies over there, the "busted up" angle is not what it appears. I'm thinking that what alot of folks are seeing is the ground forces, to an extent, are being "micromanaged" from the SEC DEF position. Herego, it "appears" to all of us that they are a bit "busted up", when in fact, they are not. Mismanagement of the forces via Rumsfeld appears to be the culprit, according to my sources anyway...dman

[bendog]

Well, I don't think that the US army, without a massive civilian draft, could take Iran in a conventional war, even if we hadn't lost and worn out machinery in Iraq. The Iranians may not all like the new nutter, but given bushii's invasion, they elected him. The US foreign policy is in fact his greatest asset in keeping power. So, any military move we make towards Iran, unifies the Iranians in opposition. So, if you like guerrila wars with ME nutters, Iran would seem the likely spot. But, with 175K troops in Iraq, and losing any ability to force a political solution there, bushii is just talking to God when he rattles the saber at Iran.

[defenseman]

I don't see us taking any action in Iran any time soon. I know I'm not interested in heading back to the sand box at this point in time to be sure. ...dman

[Bronx33]

Well, I don't think that the US army, without a massive civilian draft, could take Iran in a conventional war, even if we hadn't lost and worn out machinery in Iraq. The Iranians may not all like the new nutter, but given bushii's invasion, they elected him. The US foreign policy is in fact his greatest asset in keeping power. So, any military move we make towards Iran, unifies the Iranians in opposition. So, if you like guerrila wars with ME nutters, Iran would seem the likely spot. But, with 175K troops in Iraq, and losing any ability to force a political solution there, bushii is just talking to God when he rattles the saber at Iran.

The main factor in a ground assault is what iran did to iraq at the end of their war, waves and waves of unarmed men and children overwhelming iraqs front lines. Iran has already threatened 40K chickena** bombs. That's irans ace in the hole keeping us from bombing their nuke facilities. The fact is you will never get a fair fight over there when the enemy is stuck in the 14th century and follows a book to the letter. The main problem is irans current regime and the mullahs and their refusal to move into the next century and realize that the book they follow might be a little old and it's tactics a little out of date, so removing the regime could fix the whole problem. (I know for a fact the majority of iran don't like MA) they are just stuck with him.

[defenseman]

Bring back our "sniper" techniques, snipe the key players, and wait...dman

[Bronx33]

Bring back our "sniper" techniques, snipe the key players, and wait...dman

I have read all of carlos hathco-cks books also anthony swaffords (jarhead), ed kuglars (dead center) and few more i can't remember the authors of but all about snipers so i know what you are saying. They are there already but not in the capacity you are hoping for.

[Bronx33]

Another point would be to train a few iraqis in scout/sniper and turn them loose in a year or so after the training, they would blend in a heck of alot better than our boys.

[defenseman]

I recognize that. I got a half a dozen "SEAL" buddies over there now. A couple just returned. If the public knew the kind of S**t these guys are and have had to deal with over the last couple of years, there would probably be a somewhat different attitude about this whole thing. My point is, assasination is pretty much outlawed wrt heads of state, I say, bring it back for some of our "special" friends in the middle east. Again, 2 cents of lead is a hell of a lot cheaper than the alternative...dman

[Bronx33]

I recognize that. I got a half a dozen "SEAL" buddies over there now. A couple just returned. If the public knew the kind of S**t these guys are and have had to deal with over the last couple of years, there would probably be a somewhat different attitude about this whole thing. My point is, assasination is pretty much outlawed wrt heads of state, I say, bring it back for some of our "special" friends in the middle east. Again, 2 cents of lead is a hell of a lot cheaper than the alternative...dman


But not by an iraqi/iranian/palestinian ect.. :wiggle:

[bendog]

You guys are really serious? Unreal. Everytime we **** with MA, he is further entrenched. What's amazing is that he's smart enough to not talk about offing bushii, cause bushii's polls are sinking faster than monica in the bathroom.

[Crushaholic]

The media, sadly, is NOT reporting the part of the war. I have friends over there now, not to say that it's terrilbly good, however numerous daily successes wrt mission accomplishment by our guys day to day is simply not reported. One of my buddies goes out of his way to try to get the good stuff reported, the reporter in question simply stated, "the good stuff doesn't sell", so we don't report it. Take it for what it's worth. I correspond with these guys often.
Second, the main thrust of the guys on the ground staying put is to "finish the job". Yeah, they are there for there comrades , agreed, but the money? It has some impact on it , but not as much as you would be lead to believe. Trust me.
Quagmire? Not even in the ball park. Alot of the Warzone is pretty much cleaned out. Yes, there will be the occassional outbreak here and there. And it is quickly snapped up by the press and put onto our TV's. However, for the most part, resistance is in key areas of insurgency strongholds and it will take more time to clean them out. Are we making headway, yes. Would the media like you to think we are making headway?, no. It doesn't sell newspapers...dman

Yep...I talked to a guy who returned from Iraq briefly (He went back) and he said he was shot at only once during a year tour. We're not finished in Iraq, but the mission's end could come sooner than later...

[TailgateNut]

Yep...I talked to a guy who returned from Iraq briefly (He went back) and he said he was shot at only once during a year tour. We're not finished in Iraq, but the mission's end could come sooner than later...


:rofl: could you define "mission" and "sooner"....you sound like Dumbsfeld!

[freak6]

My boy writes me every other day, and it is bad over there. He is outside Fallujah, and they are constantly being mortared, firing back. He sent me a picture of a HumV that got destroyed. We don't even dare go into parts of Baghdad. How crazy is that? Then you have bodies showing torture, and then executed with a gunshot to the head after they couldnt get any more info out of them after the torture.

IRAQ is a fkn mess and you got Rummy saying "Looting is gonna happen"...

Stay on the course to cival war, with me and my boys in the middle of it? Fk that.

[freak6]

BTW- as LA said, we don't reenlist because of any progress made in Iraq. We reenlist because we want to do what's right, we love our country, we like and take pride in the work, and fat bonuses thrown tax free in your face are nice too when you have a family to think about. To bad our civilian leaders can't aim the most potent weapon (US MARINES) in the history of earth at the right target.

[Crushaholic]

:rofl: could you define "mission" and "sooner"....you sound like Dumbsfeld!

To me, the mission is attempting to stabilize Iraq and get the Iraqi military battle-ready. I don't know when "sooner" is, but I've heard the situation IS much better than it was at the beginning of the conflict. A lot of the fighting is now contained up north with the triangle factions.

[Bronx33]

To me, the mission is attempting to stabilize Iraq and get the Iraqi military battle-ready. I don't know when "sooner" is, but I've heard the situation IS much better than it was at the beginning of the conflict. A lot of the fighting is now contained up north with the triangle factions.


The problem now is radicals coming in from other countries stirring the pot and the majority of the iraqi populace hates them because they are the one getting hammered to incite a civil war to stop the democratic process.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The problem now is radicals coming in from other countries stirring the pot and the majority of the iraqi populace hates them because they are the one getting hammered to incite a civil war to stop the democratic process.

Not really. The problem, as I have said from the beginning, is the religious fanaticals in that country hate each other, always have, always will. Religion will always rule that country (for the foreseeable future anyway) not democracy.

[Bronx33]

Not really. The problem, as I have said from the beginning, is the religious fanaticals in that country hate each other, always have, always will. Religion will always rule that country (for the foreseeable future anyway) not democracy.


I have been reading from the horses mouth.

[heydensmom]

In the military families live rent free, utility free
Humm no. Not all military families live rent free. We are given an allowance for housing and utilites called BAH, and unfortunately it does not cover all your expenses. The majority of people living near a large military installations, live off post due to the lack of housing available. For the lower ranking families this can cause huge family problems. Usually the waiting list for on post housing can range from 18-24 months, and by the time a lower ranking family qualifies for housing, it's time to move again. Then start all over on a new list. The qualfications for the type of housing the military thinks you should live is currently being debated, hoping to make it more acceptable for an e-2 family of 4 not to have the qualifications to live in a 2 bedroom apartment. Heck my husband is a Sr NCO and according to the DOD guidelines we're supposed to live in a townhome not a house. Our BAH doesn't cover all our rent and our utilities.....it would if we wanted to live in the slums, but heck no.

[Bronco Bob]

Yep...I talked to a guy who returned from Iraq briefly (He went back) and he said he was shot at only once during a year tour. We're not finished in Iraq, but the mission's end could come sooner than later...

Just puttering around with old threads and I noticed this one. (notice the date on it)

Well, it's a year later and sooner still hasn't come to pass.

[gunns]

BTW, the article you linked (which doesn't identify the sources from which it gets its stats) doesn't say that "troops are re-enlisting at record rate" - it says
"in the last six months, the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more soldiers re-enlist than expected."

Yep, when you're expecting nothing, 15% more is an alarming rate. Fact of the matter is they are asking guys to reenlist. A friends son has been asked to do his 4th tour. He's questioning it as he doesn't feel he's fighting for our freedom. All of the soldiers I've talked with feel that way. If they do go back it's because they are worried about their buddies. And it is the cesspool, if not worse, that is depicted in the media.

Utah Soldier Called To Fourth Tour In Iraq

Dan Rascon
Reporting

(KUTV) SALT LAKE CITY He’s served three tours to Iraq and now a Utah County marine is being asked to go again.

The letter states, “Your fellow marines need your help.”

Right now he is being given a choice because he finished his four year duty.

But Lance Corporal Kirsch is still struggling with the decision.

He says he’s proud to serve his country but the war has really taken a toll on him, and his parents worry he will never come home again.

It’s another quiet afternoon for Nick Kirsch as he heads off to school at UVSC in Orem.

It’s much different than the battlefield in Iraq, where Nick is known as Lance Corporal Kirsch – a marine who’s served three tours to Iraq.

“You just out to make it from day-to-day,” says Nick.

Nick’s first tour was back in 2003 when the war started. Then he returned one year later when the marines invaded Fallujah.

And his most recent tour ended in august of last year which also ended his four year commitment to the marines.

Nick just got this letter from marine Lt. General James Conway asking Nick to return a fourth time.

“Once a marine always a marine,” the letter says. “Our nation is at war. The job you started in not yet finished. I ask you to consider returning to our corps to help us defeat this enemy and see us through this crisis.”

And there’s even a cash bonus.

“There are a lot of mixed feelings, ‘yeah, maybe I will go back,’” Nick says. “When I was in the marines I was like, ‘I can’t wait to get out, I’m can’t wait to get out, I’m just waiting for the day to get out’ and once I do get out there are still problems.”

But for Nick’s dad Christopher Kirsch it’s the thought of his son never coming home again that worries him, “The fear would be that he would lose his life this time.”

“Being called four times to the same area is a little too much,” says Christopher.

But Nick says he’s not afraid to die, “I’ve accepted death it doesn’t bother me to know that I might die.”

The letter didn’t specify exactly what the bonus would be; Nick believes it may be between $5,000 and $10,000 but he says that isn’t a motivation for rejoining.

Nick says it all comes down to motive.

He says if America’s freedom was at stake then he would go in a heartbeat but right now he’s not convinced of that so he says he will hold off calling the general.

As for Nick’s dad, he says he’s not going to push his son either way

[gunns]

Humm no. Not all military families live rent free. We are given an allowance for housing and utilites called BAH, and unfortunately it does not cover all your expenses. The majority of people living near a large military installations, live off post due to the lack of housing available. For the lower ranking families this can cause huge family problems. Usually the waiting list for on post housing can range from 18-24 months, and by the time a lower ranking family qualifies for housing, it's time to move again. Then start all over on a new list. The qualfications for the type of housing the military thinks you should live is currently being debated, hoping to make it more acceptable for an e-2 family of 4 not to have the qualifications to live in a 2 bedroom apartment. Heck my husband is a Sr NCO and according to the DOD guidelines we're supposed to live in a townhome not a house. Our BAH doesn't cover all our rent and our utilities.....it would if we wanted to live in the slums, but heck no.

You are absolutely right, but I'm thinking some of those waiting lists depend on which branch of the military you are in. In the Air Force, I don't remember our family ever being on a waiting list, my brother or son never had to wait. My brother opted to buy a house and the BAH covered all of his expenses. That being said, it was wrong for me to imply that all of the military personnel live rent and utility free.

[Stuck In Texas]

Utilities are paid for if you live in base housing. When I first moved to San Antonio it was a year-long wait to get into base housing. BAH helps, but it's by no means a "cure all". Of course, none of this would matter if military salaries were more comparable to civilian ones.