Holiday Church goers?

[ludo21]

Im just curious here, if someone (mod) could add a poll, that would be great, or le tme know how, but here is the question:

How many OM'ers go to church, and when?

Pretty much every week?
Every week no matter what?
Only on Easter and Christmas?


I go pretty much every week, but i work on Sundays, so that is only thing that keeps me at times.

Just was thinking of this today as I saw literally 100 people today ive never seen.

[RMT]

Almost every Sunday - except home Broncos' games :)

[BABronco]

Every week about three times.

[cbs1177]

i work at a country club so I work when ever there is a party. I try to go to church either wednesday or Sunday morning at the 8am service. But at least I write a check when I do go. So some times it is a month or so before I go but the I get to go several weeks at a time. So it just depends on work schedule.

[enjolras]

Pretty much every sunday..

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

When it comes to the subject of church, I'm with Ian Anderson:

So I asked this God a question, and by way of firm reply,
He said "I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays."

- "Wind Up" by Jethro Tull

[ludo21]

When it comes to the subject of church, I'm with Ian Anderson:


so is that a, no i dont go except when i feel like it?

Church is my no means the way to God at all. MY question is purely outta curiosity. I wish i could do a poll.......

Anyway, being around Christian people, and learning and studying the word is what keeps me going, some things i cant get by myself... which is also why Bible Study with Small Groups is a such a huge priority as well.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

so is that a, no i dont go except when i feel like it?

Church is my no means the way to God at all. MY question is purely outta curiosity. I wish i could do a poll.......

I don't go - period.

Some people, by nature, are drawn to congregational worship and/or a collective path to spirituality.

Others are, by nature, drawn to a personal, private, and/or individual path to worship and/or spirituality.

I belong to the latter group.

[Crushaholic]

I go from time to time, but I don't make it a habit every week...

BTW ludo, if you want to make a poll in the future, there is a box you can check at the bottom of "additional options".

[ludo21]

I don't go - period.

Some people, by nature, are drawn to congregational worship and/or a collective path to spirituality.

Others are, by nature, drawn to a personal, private, and/or individual path to worship and/or spirituality.

I belong to the latter group.


Is it because you are busy, dont feel obligated, or just caz you are doing fine without it?

Just curious.....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Is it because you are busy, dont feel obligated, or just caz you are doing fine without it?

Just curious.....

See my last post.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't think there is a necessary connection between attending church and having a relationship or a conscious contact with God or a Higher Power, or whatever you want to call Him/Her/It. (Any more than I believe there's a necessary connection between church attendance and personal morality.)

[Crushaholic]

I don't think there is a necessary connection between attending church and having a relationship or a conscious contact with God or a Higher Power, or whatever you want to call Him/Her/It. (Any more than I believe there's a necessary connection between church attendance and personal morality.)

Right. God said "Keep the Sabbath holy". He never said how that should be done...

[ludo21]

I don't think there is a necessary connection between attending church and having a relationship or a conscious contact with God or a Higher Power, or whatever you want to call Him/Her/It. (Any more than I believe there's a necessary connection between church attendance and personal morality.)


Having a personal relationship with Jesus is all it takes. No church is needed for that. But learning, and being with fellow believers is very important imo.

TY Crush, i know ive seen it before, i jsut couldnt find it!:thumbs:


I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Having a personal relationship with Jesus is all it takes.

A personal relationship with Jesus isn't necessary either.

Millions of people who are not Christians have a relationship with God or a Higher Power.

[broncocalijohn]

Every week about three times.

With your sig, name and avatar how could we not guess? I used to go religously, Christmas and Easter... come on old joke. Then when i met my wife i went once a month. When we had our 2nd child and got to give it a "J' name (Joey), I promised to go twice a month. So, when in denver, it is off to one of the oldest Catholic churches in the city (we dont get old churches in OC, california) with the wife. Easter mass was good. One hour long, not like Christmas mass.

[ludo21]

A personal relationship with Jesus isn't necessary either.

Millions of people who are not Christians have a relationship with God or a Higher Power.


Well, to be blunt, just imo (and Jesus') they are wrong. A personal relationship and believing Jesus died and rose IS what it takes.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, to be blunt, just imo (and Jesus') they are wrong. A personal relationship and believing Jesus died and rose IS what it takes.

To be equally blunt, the belief that "my religion is the only true religion" is the epitome of ignorance, hubris, and diseased thinking, IMO.

[ludo21]

To be equally blunt, the belief that "my religion is the only true religion" is the epitome of ignorance, hubris, and diseased thinking, IMO.

Well we arent all right, thats for sure. (or maybe we are) which would be weird... (find out someday:) )

Thats where it takes faith. I will never be tolerant of other religions, i wont rag on them, i will just let them know what i believe, tell them what my faith is, and if they wont be moved. Ill just have to pray for them.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well we arent all right, thats for sure. (or maybe we are) which would be weird... (find out someday:) )

Thats where it takes faith. I will never be tolerant of other religions, i wont rag on them, i will just let them know what i believe, tell them what my faith is, and if they wont be moved. Ill just have to pray for them.

All religions are true for their time and place.

You just have to seperate the truth from the "temporal inflection," as the late Joseph Campbell once put it.

I, for one, consider myself fortunate insofar as I am able to discover Divine inspiration, truth, and the presence of God in all religions.

It's nice to have more than just one's own cultural perspective on the mystery that is God, IMO.

[Blueflame]

I'd need another poll option... "used to faithfully attend services but became disillusioned due to (fill in the blank)".

[TailgateNut]

I'd need another poll option... "used to faithfully attend services but became disillusioned due to (fill in the blank)".

If that would have been available, I could have answered!

[heydensmom]

I agree with LA, I don't go to church, but that doesn't make me any less of a christian. I worship from my home, on my own, on my terms. On my terms being the keyword.

[BABronco]

L.A. BRONCOS FANTo be equally blunt, the belief that "my religion is the only true religion" is the epitome of ignorance, hubris, and diseased thinking, IMO. There is a quote from a movie that someone once told me; I used to think just like you on this topic only a mere year ago. The quote this young lady told me is from a childs movie and I'll never forget it. "When everyone is special... Nobody is." Thats from The Incredibles just in case you didn't know. She later went on to say that if all religions are right none of them are. They all disagree with eachother.

[enjolras]

There is a quote from a movie that someone once told me; I used to think just like you on this topic only a mere year ago. The quote this young lady told me is from a childs movie and I'll never forget it. "When everyone is special... Nobody is." Thats from The Incredibles just in case you didn't know. She later went on to say that if all religions are right none of them are. They all disagree with eachother.

Only true if the expectation is of a religion that is 100% 'right' (whatever that is).

Its interesting to me that most religions tend to favor a very similiar set of VALUES (love, compassion, etc..). Beliefs may differ, but the core values are often very similiar.

To me its a question of what is important. It is perfectly reasonable to beleive (as I do) that there is a single 'god' (I use quotes to characterize the fact that I have no idea what form this god takes) that is expressed throughout many different spiritual traditions. Each religion has taken on a core set of beliefs (unique to them) that espouse common values (shared by most).

I'm identify myself as Unitarian, but within that envelope I study the Christian value system (what Jesus taught us to DO) along with eastern Buddhism. I find that those two, in particular, complement each other in amazing ways. By identifying not only with god, but with the Buddhist concept of understandings oneself and ones environment I find particular spiritual fulfillment.

[epicSocialism4tw]

There is a quote from a movie that someone once told me; I used to think just like you on this topic only a mere year ago. The quote this young lady told me is from a childs movie and I'll never forget it. "When everyone is special... Nobody is." Thats from The Incredibles just in case you didn't know. She later went on to say that if all religions are right none of them are. They all disagree with eachother.

Touche

[epicSocialism4tw]

I agree with LA, I don't go to church, but that doesn't make me any less of a christian. I worship from my home, on my own, on my terms. On my terms being the keyword.

This is how I was raised. My dad taught us some stuff on Sunday mornings in our living room.

People are people, and in the church, church leaders make glaring mistakes. Money is misused, people dont agree on how to do things, etc. People are people and interpersonal politics make their way into the church. That's what always turned us off.

But, without meeting with other believers, you miss out on alot. You miss out on spiritual support, prayer, community support for your family, help when you are in need (counseling, financial help, prayer, you name it). People are willing to commit their benevolence to you if you are close to them spiritually, as in in a place of worship together. My family was very poor and people from our church paid for me to attend church camps, weekend retreats, and many different things that built knowledge and character in me. Some of these people didnt even know me. They just volunteered because they knew the importance of things like that to raise children.

There are golden people in churches. I cant expect everyone to be that way though. It's a quick and easy way to become disillusioned. You have to get beyond doctrine and differences with people sometimes just for that door to be open for you to have valuable relationships within the church. I think that it's important to remember that everyone there is diseased in their heads. But, they are there to seek God for the most part (or to find a spouse!). They want to become better people, and are making an effort at it.

When you get down to brass tacks, you have to search the scriptures to find out what to do. Do I want to let distrust and disappointment rule my effectiveness as a believer, or limit the benefit of some of the fruit of the faith? Is it fair for me to prejudge churchgoers to the point that I dont think that they are worthy of my time, patience, understanding, and spiritual support? What does the scripture say? It says not to forsake the body of believers. They need us as much as we need them. We are doing ourselves and them a disservice by holding ourselves away.

[Blueflame]

There are golden people in churches.

Sure, there are...but y'know what? There are golden people in taverns, too. And the ones in the tavern are usually less likely to judge others.

[Rohirrim]

Sure, there are...but y'know what? There are golden people in taverns, too. And the ones in the tavern are usually less likely to judge others.

In taverns they know they are neither blessed nor saved, which means they just don't have that perch from which they can look down on others.

[BABronco]

The christian who judges is not a true christian. They are called cultural christians. There is a major difference between the two. I might get into it later if you'd like.

[Blueflame]

In taverns they know they are neither blessed nor saved, which means they just don't have that perch from which they can look down on others.

I've seen many people in taverns who are, indeed blessed... and I'd also venture to guess that they're saved, Roh... some of them would instantly give you the shirt off their back if they thought you needed it.

[Blueflame]

The christian who judges is not a true christian. They are called cultural christians. There is a major difference between the two. I might get into it later if you'd like.

Then there are an awful lot of "not true Christians" in the churches I've attended.

Btw... it seems to me that the Lord said something about who is supposed to do the judging... and who is not.

[ludo21]

So some people here are combining 2 religions? Interesting.......

Im so happy i found the church i did, they have all the same core values that i believe, nothing they do upsets me.

Keep the discussion going guys.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Sure, there are...but y'know what? There are golden people in taverns, too. And the ones in the tavern are usually less likely to judge others.

Anytime you mix several generations of people, you get cultural gaps that seem insurmountable.

There is also a diverse amount of different churches, so you have a variety of experience to relate to. I went to a church full of secular musicians when I lived in Fort Worth. I still keep up with some of those folks. Interesting group.

The best church I have been to was a place that was made up of missionaries and poor people. The atmosphere there was one of no pretense. It was all about acting out Jesus' teaching in your life. Some folks like an extremely ritualistic style of worship, some dont like instruments, etc...there are places you can find that suit your need.

On another note, I have never experienced a tavern where there wasnt judgment. That's all alot of those places are. People forming cliques.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It basically boils down to this. Are you content to live your life depending on others to be your example? Or would you rather put forth the effort to be a leader. Church leaders dont do everything right. Someone who leads within the church serves others by listening, meeting needs, praying, etc. It's not about getting it right all the time. That's why we depend on Jesus.

[ludo21]

It basically boils down to this. Are you content to live your life depending on others to be your example? Or would you rather put forth the effort to be a leader. Church leaders dont do everything right. Someone who leads within the church serves others by listening, meeting needs, praying, etc. It's not about getting it right all the time. That's why we depend on Jesus.


Jesus is the only perfect example we have. Chruch leaders do their best, but its impossible to do everything the way everyone wants.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Jesus is the only perfect example we have. Chruch leaders do their best, but its impossible to do everything the way everyone wants.

That's right, Ludo. Someone will always be disappointed. That's why it's so important to go into your relationships (at church too) with the idea of servitude. To get rid of arrogance.

[Blueflame]

Anytime you mix several generations of people, you get cultural gaps that seem insurmountable.

There is also a diverse amount of different churches, so you have a variety of experience to relate to. I went to a church full of secular musicians when I lived in Fort Worth. I still keep up with some of those folks. Interesting group.

The best church I have been to was a place that was made up of missionaries and poor people. The atmosphere there was one of no pretense. It was all about acting out Jesus' teaching in your life. Some folks like an extremely ritualistic style of worship, some dont like instruments, etc...there are places you can find that suit your need.

On another note, I have never experienced a tavern where there wasnt judgment. That's all alot of those places are. People forming cliques.

Interesting... I've never, ever felt "judged" in a tavern... but have encountered judgmental, self-righteous people in every single church I've ever visited. There are also cliques in churches... and some are nothing more than social clubs with very little visible influence from the teachings of Christ.
Don't get me wrong; there are many good people in churches and for some, church is the way to go. It's just not my cup of tea... or at least, I haven't found a local church that feels like I belong there.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Interesting... I've never, ever felt "judged" in a tavern... but have encountered judgmental, self-righteous people in every single church I've ever visited. There are also cliques in churches... and some are nothing more than social clubs with very little visible influence from the teachings of Christ.
Don't get me wrong; there are many good people in churches and for some, church is the way to go. It's just not my cup of tea... or at least, I haven't found a local church that feels like I belong there.

Sure, I wont try to explain away some of the attitudes (especially in the deep south) that come along with cultural Christians. Mix gossip, small town politik, and put it in a church and you have an unfortunate representation of what Jesus is all about. No doubt about that.

It wasnt until I was older that I started figuring that stuff out. When I was a teenager, I headed a popular local band in my hometown. I wasnt a saint by any definition, and was actually more into theoretical psychology than I was anything else. I read Lilly and Leary, and spent alot of time trying to figure out what was out there. It wasnt until I saw youth group leaders from my church at our shows hanging out in the bars that I started to figure it out. They made a concerted effort to let me know that I was cared for no matter what I was choosing to do with myself. Through that, I learned that one of them was a vietnam vet with some serious mental issues and that his wife was a great lady. I also learned that the culture sometimes doesnt fit the doctrine.

I've spent many an hour in various bars, and I can tell you first hand that they are some of the most disgusting places on the planet run by some of the most disgusting people to be burped up from the ground. There is very little good that goes on in those places. If fellowship without judgment is what you are looking for, it's out there. I dont think that what I've experienced growing up in bars I would consider anywhere near wholesome or fulfilling though.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

She later went on to say that if all religions are right none of them are. They all disagree with eachother.

It's not that they disagree with each other - it's just that different traditions have different ways of understanding and/or representing truth. Different traditions have different images or conceptions of God, Higher Power, ultimate reality, etc., which are culturally and historically specific.

For example, when Jesus said "I am God," this statement was perceived as blasphemy in the time, place, and culture in which He lived. By contrast, if Jesus had lived in India and had said "I am God," then people would have said "congratulations - at last you found out!"

If you and I both view a mountain from two different sides, we're both going to have two different descriptions of the same mountain. It doesn't follow that my description is right and yours is wrong, or vice versa.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'd need another poll option... "used to faithfully attend services but became disillusioned due to (fill in the blank)".

:D

I was looking for the option that said "I have no problem with God - I'm just not real fond of His fan clubs."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

In taverns they know they are neither blessed nor saved, which means they just don't have that perch from which they can look down on others.

Those people who believe they belong to some chosen group of "the saved" and that people who don't share their convictions are "unsaved" are often using religion as a compensation for deep feelings of shame, guilt, and/or unworthiness.

They use religion to feel "righteous" or one-up.

Sad, really.

This sort of attittude seems completely contrary to Christ's teachings.

[ludo21]

Those people who believe they belong to some chosen group of "the saved" and that people who don't share their convictions are "unsaved" are often using religion as a compensation for deep feelings of shame, guilt, and/or unworthiness.

They use religion to feel "righteous" or one-up.

Sad, really.

This sort of attittude seems completely contrary to Christ's teachings.


Christs taught that there is but one way to God (heaven)

Thru him and faith in him ALONE!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Christs taught that there is but one way to God (heaven)

Thru him and faith in him ALONE!

If Christ was God incarnate, then it's the uniqueness of the One who is incarnate - not the incarnation - that is significant. And Christ was/is not the only incarnation of God, Higer Power, or whatever you want to call it.

In other words, it's just as reasonable to interpret that Christ was speaking of the God who was incarnate in Him - not His uniqueness as a historical character or singular incarnation.

According to those fundamentalists who believe they belong to some chosen group of the "saved," all the people who never knew of Christ's existence, e.g., during Biblical times, e.g., the Aztecs or the Chinese, were damned.

Who could take this sort of notion seriously?

[ludo21]

If Christ was God incarnate, then it's the uniqueness of the One who is incarnate - not the incarnation - that is significant. And Christ was/is not the only incarnation of God, Higer Power, or whatever you want to call it.

In other words, it's just as reasonable to interpret that Christ was speaking of the God who was incarnate in Him - not His uniqueness as a historical character or singular incarnation.

According to those fundamentalists who believe they belong to some chosen group of the "saved," all the people who never knew of Christ's existence, e.g., during Biblical times, e.g., the Aztecs or the Chinese, were damned.

Who could take this sort of notion seriously?

I HATE that Jesus said this, but he did.

"Narrow is the path, few will find it" (I hope 'few' means, billions!)

[epicSocialism4tw]

I HATE that Jesus said this, but he did.

"Narrow is the path, few will find it" (I hope 'few' means, billions!)

It's really hard to rationalize an "all-secular humanist" Jesus. Jesus said some things that are controversial. People tend to take the bits that they like and ignore the tough stuff. It's alot simpler than it seems. To use the Lewisian idea...he was either who he said he was, a lunatic, or satan himself. It's hard to pin another label on him with the data we have.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I HATE that Jesus said this, but he did.

"Narrow is the path, few will find it" (I hope 'few' means, billions!)

I see the truth in this statement.

However, I don't see it as a vindication for the point of view that there is only one valid path to salvation or enlightenment or whatever you want to call it.

[ludo21]

I see the truth in this statement.

However, I don't see it as a vindication for the point of view that there is only one valid path to salvation or enlightenment or whatever you want to call it.


very true.

But the statement of "I am the Way thr Truth and the Life, noone gets to the Father except through me"

is there a deeper meaning in that too?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

very true.

But the statement of "I am the Way thr Truth and the Life, noone gets to the Father except through me"

is there a deeper meaning in that too?

When Christ says "through me" He doesn't mean "me" as a historical figure people should idolize - He means "me" as a living representation or a symbol of man's union with God.

In other words, He's not saying "hey, I'm the guy stationed at the door of the nightclub who decides who gets past the velvet rope." He's saying "I'm an example of how to achieve oneness with God."

[ludo21]

When Christ says "through me" He doesn't mean "me" as a historical figure people should idolize - He means "me" as a living representation or a symbol of man's union with God.

In other words, He's not saying "hey, I'm the guy stationed at the door of the nightclub who decides who gets past the velvet rope." He's saying "I'm an example of how to achieve oneness with God."


could be.

[Blueflame]

Sure, I wont try to explain away some of the attitudes (especially in the deep south) that come along with cultural Christians. Mix gossip, small town politik, and put it in a church and you have an unfortunate representation of what Jesus is all about. No doubt about that.

It wasnt until I was older that I started figuring that stuff out. When I was a teenager, I headed a popular local band in my hometown. I wasnt a saint by any definition, and was actually more into theoretical psychology than I was anything else. I read Lilly and Leary, and spent alot of time trying to figure out what was out there. It wasnt until I saw youth group leaders from my church at our shows hanging out in the bars that I started to figure it out. They made a concerted effort to let me know that I was cared for no matter what I was choosing to do with myself. Through that, I learned that one of them was a vietnam vet with some serious mental issues and that his wife was a great lady. I also learned that the culture sometimes doesnt fit the doctrine.

I've spent many an hour in various bars, and I can tell you first hand that they are some of the most disgusting places on the planet run by some of the most disgusting people to be burped up from the ground. There is very little good that goes on in those places. If fellowship without judgment is what you are looking for, it's out there. I dont think that what I've experienced growing up in bars I would consider anywhere near wholesome or fulfilling though.

I'm saying you can find good people... those who follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ... in a plethora of places and not just in church. The churches, by their own intolerant attitudes, have caused many Christians to "backslide" (their perspective; not mine) and stay home instead of attending services.

[Blueflame]

:D

I was looking for the option that said "I have no problem with God - I'm just not real fond of His fan clubs."

That option would have worked for me, too... ^5

[bendog]

I'm saying you can find good people... those who follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ... in a plethora of places and not just in church. The churches, by their own intolerant attitudes, have caused many Christians to "backslide" (their perspective; not mine) and stay home instead of attending services.
No doubt that is true. However, only in a church will a person find children similar to one's child with parents trying to teach like values. I realize you don't have a kid(s) yet. I cook for meals on wheels. And, we're with a team that assists other members when something goes wrong. You just can't find that relationship without a church ... or some social group. But, around Katrina, I took some food to a church we used to attend, but truly dislike, and I left a pot lid. Still haven't been back for my pot lid

[ludo21]

I'm saying you can find good people... those who follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ... in a plethora of places and not just in church. The churches, by their own intolerant attitudes, have caused many Christians to "backslide" (their perspective; not mine) and stay home instead of attending services.


The church is also to the point where men find no interest in it or dont like it because their isnt much risk involved (altho there is a huge war going on, their is a battle to be fought) Men have to realize church/God isnt just for women, its for everyone, and the Men have to be the leaders.

[orangeatheist]

Not a day.

Wouldn't know what to do if I did go. ;D

[Crushaholic]

The church is also to the point where men find no interest in it or dont like it because their isnt much risk involved (altho there is a huge war going on, their is a battle to be fought) Men have to realize church/God isnt just for women, its for everyone, and the Men have to be the leaders.

I don't see a disparity between men and women with going to church. I see couples making a decision together to go or not go...

[epicSocialism4tw]

I don't see a disparity between men and women with going to church. I see couples making a decision together to go or not go...

There is a huge disparity at my church. There is a concerted and ongoing effort to get husbands involved as much as their wives and children. They are usually at home watching football or futbol and getting drunk.

[ludo21]

I don't see a disparity between men and women with going to church. I see couples making a decision together to go or not go...

well the overall perception is that their is a big disparity. And my church has tried its best to get men to go.

[Blueflame]

No doubt that is true. However, only in a church will a person find children similar to one's child with parents trying to teach like values. I realize you don't have a kid(s) yet. I cook for meals on wheels. And, we're with a team that assists other members when something goes wrong. You just can't find that relationship without a church ... or some social group. But, around Katrina, I took some food to a church we used to attend, but truly dislike, and I left a pot lid. Still haven't been back for my pot lid

But I do, in fact, have kids, Bendog... six of them. :) Now that they've reached their teens, they make their own choices regarding church and some of them do choose to attend church regularly... and I fully support them in that.

Meals on Wheels is a wonderful service... :thumbs:

[Blueflame]

The church is also to the point where men find no interest in it or dont like it because their isnt much risk involved (altho there is a huge war going on, their is a battle to be fought) Men have to realize church/God isnt just for women, its for everyone, and the Men have to be the leaders.

My husband lost interest because in the last church we attended, the weekly scripture would change, but the theme of the sermon was always... and I do mean always... the same. "There's not enough money coming into the collection plate".... it was a small church in an economically-challenged area and the pastor was ticked off that he had to work at a regular job in addition to preaching.