Ngata vs Bunkley

[Nuggets4]

All right, I am hardly a draft expert which is why I turn to you guys on this one. If I remember correctly, right after the Super Bowl everyone thought that Ngata from Oregon was the top DT in the draft and the battle wasn't even close. People were saying he was a top 10 lock. Now all of a sudden, we have Bunkley (who some thought was a late first at BEST) being listed as the top DT in the draft. My question is why? From what I've read, Bunkley was an underachiever his entire time at FSU. Can someone explain how he leapfrogged Ngata and is now a potential top 10 pick?

[ludo21]

His play didnt help him much, but his physical ability,and workouts were monstrous.

[bendog]

That's what I heard/read, plus Bunkley has the potential to do some pass rush damage in the gaps, while Nagata is more a push the guard back like a roadgrader type.

[ludo21]

Bunkley has a higher bust rate imo, but he also has more potential (theres that word again)

[Arkansas Bronco]

All depends on what you are looking for. IMO Bunkley is a better one gap DT that also has the speed to put some pressure on the QB. Nagata lacks that speed but he has far more power and is an ideal 2 gap DT. Since i havnt seen him often I cant realy talk him up but the games I have seen it looks like no OL can get him off of them. Looks like a supreme run stuffer.

[DBroncos4life]

Wroten is a better passrusher then those two. Ngata is just a huge guy with really good speed for his size. People are very quick to call Chad Jackson the combine champ but then they jump all over Bunkley's nuts like he was a great college player during his stay at FSU. He had a good year last year but the rest would be considered less then avg for a guy his size and strength.

[Play2win]

Great topic!!

Its about time somebody started a thread like this...

My, myself, would take Ngata, and would have a combo close to Jacksonville's...

[SpringStein]

Bunkley had an outstanding year at FSU. Add his workouts into that and he shot up the boards. Personally I see him as a better complementary DT to Warren, where I see Ngata much more similiar than Warren.

My preference is Bunkley, but unless we trade up, I'll be surprised if either is available. (And I'd be very happy with either one.)

[Rascal]

Ngata won't make it to us and Bunkley has a small chance of dropping to us. Ngata is similar to Warren so picking him doesn't do us any favors.

I'd draft Bunkley in a second though. In the OM draft mock I STOLE him with the fourth pick in the second round (JETS). No way he falls that far in a real draft. I would like to get him or Wroten though.

I also wouldn't mind get Rod Wright in the second round either.

[Requiem]

Ngata - two-gap duder.
Bunkley - probably a one-gap UT.

[RocBronc]

Ngata is not the same as Warren... Ngata plays more the NT in our system (the position that Myers plays) so to get Ngata would be a much better fit. Bunkley and Warren would be competing for the same position.

[Rascal]

What?

You got it backwards RocBronc.

[cutthemdown]

That's what I heard/read, plus Bunkley has the potential to do some pass rush damage in the gaps, while Nagata is more a push the guard back like a roadgrader type.
I think that is a fair evaluation. Take a step further by saying Ngata a 1 technique tackle and Bunkley more a 3 technique tackle. Ngata is a player that will hold the bubble at point of attack and occupy 2 blockers. Bunkley a guy that would be asked to penetrate more, get in backfield, disrupt running and passing lanes etc. In Broncos case I think Bunkley would fit in nice next to Warren.

[TheManeMan]

Ngata doesnt get to the QB...

Bunkley does...

[elpasojoe]

Bunkley is the way I would go with pick 1a., but I doubt he lasts that long. There is plenty of value in rounds two and perhaps longer (Gabe Watson, Rod Wright Claude Wrotter ond others.) But to tell the truth, there are red flags on many of these players (character issues, accusations of being lazy and taking off plays) In the long run, wouldn't the Broncos be better off picking a player like John McCargo in the second or even Montavious Stanley in the fourth or fifth round, who are known for their work ethics. At least you get a player you know is trying to improve. I think I am tired of the lazy athlete who thinks their talent will get them by. Does anyone agree?

[TheManeMan]

You mean like this POS??

http://media.scout.com/Media/NFL/157473_gardenersancya.JPG

[cutthemdown]

Bunkley is the way I would go with pick 1a., but I doubt he lasts that long. There is plenty of value in rounds two and perhaps longer (Gabe Watson, Rod Wright Claude Wrotter ond others.) But to tell the truth, there are red flags on many of these players (character issues, accusations of being lazy and taking off plays) In the long run, wouldn't the Broncos be better off picking a player like John McCargo in the second or even Montavious Stanley in the fourth or fifth round, who are known for their work ethics. At least you get a player you know is trying to improve. I think I am tired of the lazy athlete who thinks their talent will get them by. Does anyone agree?
These kids are all so young I don't think everything about their character is etched in stone. I do feel work ethic can be improved. If a guy is just a bad dude then maybe you shy away. But many players have been labeled lazy and then played hard for Broncos.

[elpasojoe]

CUT, maybe you are right. If that is the case and Bunkley and Ngata are not available, give me Wrotten in the second. Still, take Montavious in the fifth round. I love what they say about his work ethic and leadership.

[azbroncfan]

Bunkley has a higher bust rate imo, but he also has more potential (theres that word again)

Sounds like a Denver Bronco 1st round pick then.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Bunkley is obviously the better pass rusher, but if the Broncs did draft Ngata, they would have twin mountians in the middle like Jax.

[Play2win]

Bunkley is obviously the better pass rusher, but if the Broncs did draft Ngata, they would have twin mountians in the middle like Jax.
Exactly, and I think it would set the table for the rest of Defense... :thumbsup:

[TheManeMan]

So would they try to trade up for either player? Maybe if Buffalo goes elsewhere with their pick? I would personally love either DT...They wont be around at 15 though, thats the problem...they would have to trade up for either...I dont think if they trade up, that a DT is going to be choice...you know what I mean?

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I don't think they are trading up. Four or five really good fits for them could slide.

[ludo21]

I don't think they are trading up. Four or five really good fits for them could slide.


15 is the perrrrrrfect slide pick. We have a chance to get a good player, guys WILL slide, its a fact. Just a matter of who...

I agree, if we get Ngata, we can rival Jax interior, that would be sick!

[Ratboy]

I rather pass on both them.

Give me this guy in the 2nd round.

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/wp/Football/100805_oklahoma/05.wright.ou.800x600.jpg

[Mediator12]

All right, I am hardly a draft expert which is why I turn to you guys on this one. If I remember correctly, right after the Super Bowl everyone thought that Ngata from Oregon was the top DT in the draft and the battle wasn't even close. People were saying he was a top 10 lock. Now all of a sudden, we have Bunkley (who some thought was a late first at BEST) being listed as the top DT in the draft. My question is why? From what I've read, Bunkley was an underachiever his entire time at FSU. Can someone explain how he leapfrogged Ngata and is now a potential top 10 pick?

Bukley was never an underachiever on the field. He had a few Academic issues and one off the field character issue that got cleared up. Here is a good summary:

Taking over nose guard duties, he finally lived up to his high school reputation. His average of 1.92 stops for losses per game led the nation's defensive tackles and ranked third overall. His 25 stops for losses of 90 yards were the second-best season total in the NCAA Division 1-A ranks in 2005 (behind the 26.5 by Dan Bazuin of Central Michigan) and set a school single-season record. He registered nine sacks with fifteen quarterback pressures and recorded 66 tackles (39 solos). He also recovered two fumbles and caused another.

In 44 games with the Seminoles, Bunkley started 22 times. He recorded 129 tackles (66 solos) with 11.5 sacks for minus-58 yards and ranks fifth in school history with 37 stops for losses of 119 yards. He was credited with 24 quarterback pressures and two deflected passes. He also caused two fumbles and recovered three others.

Those are Against top Quality OL's for the most part too. He did not play the Undertackle at FSU and still had Nine sacks. I question anyone who says Wroten has better potential since he did far worse numbers wise playing UT than Bunkley did getting double teamed at NT.

[-Slap-]

Bukley was never an underachiever on the field. He had a few Academic issues and one off the field character issue that got cleared up. Here is a good summary:

Taking over nose guard duties, he finally lived up to his high school reputation. His average of 1.92 stops for losses per game led the nation's defensive tackles and ranked third overall. His 25 stops for losses of 90 yards were the second-best season total in the NCAA Division 1-A ranks in 2005 (behind the 26.5 by Dan Bazuin of Central Michigan) and set a school single-season record. He registered nine sacks with fifteen quarterback pressures and recorded 66 tackles (39 solos). He also recovered two fumbles and caused another.

In 44 games with the Seminoles, Bunkley started 22 times. He recorded 129 tackles (66 solos) with 11.5 sacks for minus-58 yards and ranks fifth in school history with 37 stops for losses of 119 yards. He was credited with 24 quarterback pressures and two deflected passes. He also caused two fumbles and recovered three others.

Those are Against top Quality OL's for the most part too. He did not play the Undertackle at FSU and still had Nine sacks. I question anyone who says Wroten has better potential since he did far worse numbers wise playing UT than Bunkley did getting double teamed at NT.
I fugure it would take a miracle for Bunkley to slide to 15. A DT who can play on the backfield like that is going to be highly prized on draft day. Steve Emtmann parlayed huge tackle for loss numbers plus a great Combine into the overall number one pick. Of course injuries (probably syringe related) ruined him in the NFL.

[bendog]

Warren's a top flight one gap (huge for a one gap) dt. Does Coyers scheme want two one gap guys?

[Rascal]

If they are going to have Warren lose some weight and play a undertackle technique (which was implied in the Warren article recently) then Ngata is the better choice. Personally I thin Bunkley would be a better undertackle then Warren. But that assumes we will get Bunkley which is highly unlikely.

[bendog]

Ngata will be gone by 15 no doubt, and Bunkley most likely. I posted the question cause I really don't know Coyer's scheme. But, it seems if the goal is to keep olinemen off of Wilson, then two classic one gap guys is NOT the way to go. Myers is ok, but later in the draft there seem to be some solid two gap guys: Oshinowo of Stanford and Harris of Miami are just two guys off the top of what I see, and I left my draft stuff at home.

Some assumptions: 1) Shanny will not trade both no 1s to move up. He's more likely to trade Down from 15 IF the DE on his list is slated to go later than that. I've seen some mocks having Den take Hali with the 22, and if he's around, that imo would be a no brainer.

2) the rumor that Den has one of the top 4 TE's targeted is not total bs. I just don't see shanny moving up into the top 8 or so to get V.Davis. Sure he's got the combine numbers, but he wasn't the most productive TE. Actually shanny might even like the no 5 guy from CU. But Lewis, Byrd and Klop will all go in the second or latter round.

3) Den will not take wrs until the 2nd day UNLESS for some unknow reason one slips down to them, and that prolly won't happen because there are only a few with true 1-2 round talent.

If Den had the option to move out of the 15 and still get Hali, and move up in the second, imo, that'd be the best option.

[Mediator12]

If they are going to have Warren lose some weight and play a undertackle technique (which was implied in the Warren article recently) then Ngata is the better choice. Personally I thin Bunkley would be a better undertackle then Warren. But that assumes we will get Bunkley which is highly unlikely.

Coyer would still mix it up whether he wants one or two gap schemes. He really wants to have the players like Tampa to play the DL, but he does not have the DE's to do it. The DE's had more run responsibility last year because they were ineffective getting to the QB by themselves. He actually played them more inside than outside. He is flexible to the talent though and does a good job of mixing up the DL stunts from game to game.

[Mediator12]

Ngata will be gone by 15 no doubt, and Bunkley most likely. I posted the question cause I really don't know Coyer's scheme. But, it seems if the goal is to keep olinemen off of Wilson, then two classic one gap guys is NOT the way to go. Myers is ok, but later in the draft there seem to be some solid two gap guys: Oshinowo of Stanford and Harris of Miami are just two guys off the top of what I see, and I left my draft stuff at home.

Some assumptions: 1) Shanny will not trade both no 1s to move up. He's more likely to trade Down from 15 IF the DE on his list is slated to go later than that. I've seen some mocks having Den take Hali with the 22, and if he's around, that imo would be a no brainer.

2) the rumor that Den has one of the top 4 TE's targeted is not total bs. I just don't see shanny moving up into the top 8 or so to get V.Davis. Sure he's got the combine numbers, but he wasn't the most productive TE. Actually shanny might even like the no 5 guy from CU. But Lewis, Byrd and Klop will all go in the second or latter round.

3) Den will not take wrs until the 2nd day UNLESS for some unknow reason one slips down to them, and that prolly won't happen because there are only a few with true 1-2 round talent.

If Den had the option to move out of the 15 and still get Hali, and move up in the second, imo, that'd be the best option.


Great post bendog. I agree with everything but WR. That situation is way to in flux to tell if they go early or late at this point. A lot will depend if they get Walker or trade Lelie.

[-Slap-]

I guess if it came down to Ngata versus Bunkely, I would take NGata simply because its harder to find bona fide freaks of nature like that.

[Mediator12]

I guess if it came down to Ngata versus Bunkely, I would take NGata simply because its harder to find bona fide freaks of nature like that.

One thing is for sure, LJ would run outside Zone plays all day if Ngata and warren were the DT's in DEN ;D