Kiper

[wolf754life]

Kiper chat on Espn at 11 AM, Starting right now! Lets rock his ****house.....

Anyone have his 4 round mock?

[maven]

Is it free?

[Requiem]

I asked him a question, hopefully the (it's my birthday, please answer) technique will help.

[Requiem]

Yeah, it's free.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index?&lpos=globalnav&lid=gn_SportsNation_SportsNation

[maven]

Here's the link:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index

[watermock]

I think Mel is hung over, I'm not getting anything.

[DBroncos4life]

I think Mel is hung over, I'm not getting anything.
not everyone drinks on a Tuesday night mock.

[watermock]

I thought this WAS tuesday.

[watermock]

I'm just getting we are getting mel right now.

[GSRelyea]

Can't post the entire 4 round mock because it is ESPN insider, but if anyone wnts to know any other info just ask-
Broncos
#15 Chad Jackson WR Florida
#22 Deangelo Williams RB Memphis
#61 Mark Anderson, DE Alabama
119. Denver (from WSH) Owen Daniels, TE Wisconsin
126. Denver Bernard Pollard, DB Purdue
130. Denver (comp. pick) Jeremy Bloom, WR Colorado
Kiper chat on Espn at 11 AM, Starting right now! Lets rock his ****house.....

Anyone have his 4 round mock?

[Requiem]

He's probably answering, but yeah I have his four rounder.

Chad Jackson, DeAngelo Williams, Mark Anderson (Kiwi was picked a few later), Owen Daniels, Bernard Pollard, Jeremy Bloom.

People we passed up in the fourth: Tim Day, Jon Scott, John McCargo, Daryn Colledge, Omar Jacobs, etc. Many more. Not a huge fan of Anderson over Kiwi -- Daniels over Tim Day is a no-no and instead of Bloom, I'd rather a OL or QB, like Jacobs.

[watermock]

Big hair is on the air. err...cyber ink...

[Orange_Beard]

Wow,
Curtis Winona MN
Who will be the biggest steal in the last 3 rounds?

MEL KIPER
You could be looking at PJ Daniels, David Kirtman, Jeff Webb, Cory Rodgers, Jeremy Bloom, Ryan Gibbon, Willie Evans, Freddie Keiaho of San Diego State, Dion Byrum CB Ohio, Reed Doughty, Shannon James.

I hope we steal Bloom.

[maven]

Hope there's a broncos question...

[maven]

I wonder how an Ngata & Big Money would look next together.

[Requiem]

Bloom is a POS, no way should we take him in the fourth. Big Money and Ngata together is a waste. Ngata is a space-eater, like Warren. You want a guy who can rush the pass as a UT below Warren.

Lmao @ the Bill Belichek guy.

[maven]

Bloom is a POS, no way should we take him in the fourth. Big Money and Ngata together is a waste. Ngata is a space-eater, like Warren. You want a guy who can rush the pass as a UT below Warren.

Lmao @ the Bill Belichek guy.

I'm just wondering what two fat guys would look together. Nothing more.

[watermock]

I've posted 5 questions and nothing

[Dr. Broncenstein]

He won't answer my questions either.. prolly 'cause my ID is "mel__please_come_out_of_teh_closet"

[Requiem]

Mel rarely answers any Broncos questions. I ask all the time, and none have gotten answered. Oh well.

[Requiem]

Lmao, someone asked who he thinks we should take. LOL.

[Rocket 7]

Jordan(Eagle Point. OR)
Who should Denver take for there first 2 picks in the 2006 Draft?

MEL KIPER
They have three critical needs, WR, DE, RB and TE. I would say that's what you have to address. I have them taking Chad Jackson, WR, at 15 and DeAngelo Williams at 22. I have them taking Mark Anderson in the second. They don't have a third round pick, but they have three fourth round picks. Owen Daniels at TE from Wisconsin. At 126 Pollard and Jeremy Bloom later as a compensatory pick is who I have them looking at in the fourth.

[Requiem]

Jordan(Eagle Point. OR)
Who should Denver take for there first 2 picks in the 2006 Draft?

MEL KIPER
They have three critical needs, WR, DE, RB and TE. I would say that's what you have to address. I have them taking Chad Jackson, WR, at 15 and DeAngelo Williams at 22. I have them taking Mark Anderson in the second. They don't have a third round pick, but they have three fourth round picks. Owen Daniels at TE from Wisconsin. At 126 Pollard and Jeremy Bloom later as a compensatory pick is who I have them looking at in the fourth.

[Ballhawk]

Jordan(Eagle Point. OR)
Who should Denver take for there first 2 picks in the 2006 Draft?

MEL KIPER
They have three critical needs, WR, DE, RB and TE. I would say that's what you have to address. I have them taking Chad Jackson, WR, at 15 and DeAngelo Williams at 22. I have them taking Mark Anderson in the second. They don't have a third round pick, but they have three fourth round picks. Owen Daniels at TE from Wisconsin. At 126 Pollard and Jeremy Bloom later as a compensatory pick is who I have them looking at in the fourth.

Is it a riddle? Do we have to figure out which one is not a need position?

[TexanBob]

Actually, Bloom sounds a lot like last year's Clarett pick so I could see it happening.

[Requiem]

I like Mark Anderson, but him over Kiwanuka is ****. (In my opinion.)

Owen Daniels over Tim Day, I don't like.

Pollard is a solid pick, typical Broncos safety -- won't do much in coverage though. Decent pick, but with better players like Colledge, Scott, Jacobs, McCargo on board, you have to look there. If we draft Bloom, *shakes head* Terrible.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

THREE critical needs: WR, DE, RB, and TE.... Got it... thanks...

/f--ktard

[Rocket 7]

Jordan(Eagle Point. OR)
Who should Denver take for there first 2 picks in the 2006 Draft?

MEL KIPER
They have three critical needs, WR, DE, RB and TE.
three?

[Requiem]

Yeah, he listed four but said three. He also claims Rodgers is a "air" apparent. I don't think Mel went to college, and it really shows. ;)

[Rocket 7]

THREE critical needs: WR, DE, RB, and TE.... Got it... thanks...

/f--ktard
Same math teacher as Iowaian

[watermock]

I have asked him about VD three times...maybe he's confused.

[Ballhawk]

Boring chat, he is basically reading his own mock. We know what the **** you have us picking, how about some possible variances.

[watermock]

I have located the source of global warming.

[watermock]

Hell, I have made it on Bang 3 times and can't get an opinion on when VD will be caught?

[Ballhawk]

Fan: Mel, what teams could be interested in Young?
Mel: I have Young going to the Fade at #7.
Fan: Ya Mel I know, but if the fade take someone else, what teams may be interested?
Mel: I have Young going to the Fade at #7!!

Completly worthless

[watermock]

Jeff (Reading, PA)
Mel, Based on your mock draft, which team do you feel has the best draft class?

MEL KIPER
That's a good question. When you look at it, you like a lot of team's drafts. If you go through it and look at particular teams, Pittsburgh. If they end up with Sinorice Moss in the first round and then get a Danieal Manning, Brent Hawkins, Andre Hall, Omar Jacobs. If they ended up with those players in the first four rounds, that's a good draft. I like New England too. Santonio Holmes, Brian Calhoun, Chris Gocong, Montavias Stanley, Guy Whimper, Derek Hagan. That would be a good draft for them too.


Good Lord.

[Requiem]

Cleveland has by far the best. Kamerion Wimbley, Abdul Hodge, Charles Spencer, DeMario Minter, Rod Wright. That's just insane. Talk about a kickass defensive draft. Spencer is a solid pick for a G too.

[Requiem]

I think Kiper spews a lot of BS though too. He keeps saying John Austin, when it's John Alston out of Stanford at LB. He must not know much about the kid if he doesn't even know his name.

[watermock]

He actually answers a question what team has the best draft class1

I asked this clown three times where Davis would go and he ignored me. I also asked about That Bowling Green QB and he seemed to want softballs. He's a moron honestly. "I see them going here'....Jesus Hair Ball, it's not about spots at all unless your talking about the top ten. What a waste of time. He's an idiot.

[watermock]

Cleveland has by far the best. Kamerion Wimbley, Abdul Hodge, Charles Spencer, DeMario Minter, Rod Wright. That's just insane. Talk about a kickass defensive draft. Spencer is a solid pick for a G too.

That's not drafting, it's total specualation. I gurantee we don't take Jackson and White in round one.

Did you notice he never mentioned Vernon Davis even once?

[eddie mac]

Kipers draft sucks ass.

[Rascal]

Jordan(Eagle Point. OR)
Who should Denver take for there first 2 picks in the 2006 Draft?

MEL KIPER
They have three critical needs, WR, DE, RB and TE. I would say that's what you have to address. I have them taking Chad Jackson, WR, at 15 and DeAngelo Williams at 22. I have them taking Mark Anderson in the second. They don't have a third round pick, but they have three fourth round picks. Owen Daniels at TE from Wisconsin. At 126 Pollard and Jeremy Bloom later as a compensatory pick is who I have them looking at in the fourth.

three critical needs and then lists four positions. Great math.

[Ballhawk]

Funny that Denver and Jets are the only two teams with 2 first round picks and yet neither had the best draft off of his mock roflmao

[ludo21]

lol, Kiper is stinking it up as usual. Good stuff.

[watermock]

That was a waste of time.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

I've gone back and read draft comments from 99-2005. No matter how much they like certain guys before or after the draft, it's still largely a crapshoot. To say that one team will have a great draft when we're still more than 2 weeks out is insane.

[ro_50]

The NFL Draft and Mel Kiper will forever be linked like Janet Jackson and Super Bowl halftimes.

[DomCasual]

Bloom is a POS, no way should we take him in the fourth.
Why would you say that? Even if all he did was return kicks for us, he would be worth a 4th. Darrent isn't going to do it, so we need to find someone whose job isn't just to catch it and not fumble it. Bloom will be a scary return man in the NFL - even if he never succeeds at anything else at that level.

[ludo21]

Why would you say that? Even if all he did was return kicks for us, he would be worth a 4th. Darrent isn't going to do it, so we need to find someone whose job isn't just to catch it and not fumble it. Bloom will be a scary return man in the NFL - even if he never succeeds at anything else at that level.


I agree, "wasting" a pick on a ST guy is no longer a WASTE!! ST's is HUGE in the NFL. Field position can change games!

Bloom would be an awesome pick, even if a 4th is a little early, at least we got him, and no one else did.

[NFLBRONCO]

I agree, "wasting" a pick on a ST guy is no longer a WASTE!! ST's is HUGE in the NFL. Field position can change games!

Bloom would be an awesome pick, even if a 4th is a little early, at least we got him, and no one else did.


I'd burn a 4th on ST's WHY YOU ASK? To get DW away from doing it. I agree with you Ludo21

[DrFate]

even if a 4th is a little early

I don't think it is early. I think Bloom is a Tim Dwight type - return kicks and punts, play as the #4 WR. That isn't a bad player.

[24champ]

I don't think it is early. I think Bloom is a Tim Dwight type - return kicks and punts, play as the #4 WR. That isn't a bad player.
I would rather take Hester from Miami but I dont know where he is slotted in the draft.

[RhymesayersDU]

Can't post the entire 4 round mock because it is ESPN insider, but if anyone wnts to know any other info just ask-
Broncos
#15 Chad Jackson WR Florida
#22 Deangelo Williams RB Memphis
#61 Mark Anderson, DE Alabama
119. Denver (from WSH) Owen Daniels, TE Wisconsin
126. Denver Bernard Pollard, DB Purdue
130. Denver (comp. pick) Jeremy Bloom, WR Colorado
I don't understand why everybody wants us to go RB in the first round. I mean I get that he's a great player, but for me personally, I'm philosophically opposed to going RB in round 1 when we've proven that we can plug people into our system. I mean, is this guy really that much of a stud?

[Orange_Beard]

I have located the source of global warming.

No such thing.

[Orange_Beard]

Could he possibly be the guy that Tiger offended yesterday?

[Nuggets4]

Bloom is a POS

Explain.

[Requiem]

That's not drafting, it's total specualation. I gurantee we don't take Jackson and White in round one.

Did you notice he never mentioned Vernon Davis even once?

I am speculating. If they had that draft, it would be amazing. He's answered in on Vernon Davis before. No need to beat a dead horse. I'm sure he gets sick of answering the same questions week in and week out.

[Requiem]

About Bloom, he's not worth a fourth rounder. I wouldn't doubt that we draft him, but there's too much talent in this draft to use a fourth on a guy who wouldn't do much on offense, (if anything at all) and would only be a return guy.

Yes, I realize the importance of special teams, especially in regards to the return game -- however there are better players who have good return skills who proved themselves and college and have been more DEDICATED to football than Bloom at that point in the draft.

I also agree that if Williams is going to be the corner starting next to Bailey, (which I don't believe, I've thought since Day 1 Foxworth would prove to be better and odds are he will) we could use another guy to be a returner back there. Who knows.

I don't agree on using high picks especially for just a return guy, but I believe the Broncos did well when they did that with Darrent last year. However, he was an explosive cornerback, who without injury and if a few inches taller, would have been a first-rounder, and possible top fifteen selection.

Bloom on the other hand, has been out of football - and probably wouldn't contribute that much. If Charlie Adams is still on the squad, he did a decent job at returning last year, but if Williams doesn't get the starting job -- that'll probably allow us to use him as a returner. If you're looking for a returner, you don't have to draft one that high -- although teams do, it's certainly something I'm not in favor of.

Look at Kiper's mock, if you're a draft guru, look at the players who are still on board at that point in time and tell me that they're less valuable than Jeremy Bloom. You can't -- and if you do; you're opinion is just dishonest in wrong in my eyes. However, I'll still honor that opinion.

Yet again, this draft is too deep and too many good players, better players (by far) will be there at #130 than Jeremy Bloom. In my honest opinion, he's going to be a late-round guy and the only reason he'll get drafted is on return ability alone. Other than that, I don't think he brings much to the table as an NFL prospect, which is probably why he won't go as high as Slick Mel is projecting.

[eddie mac]

Here's the full mock. If it's not allowed on here just remove it.

First-Round Projections
1. Houston Reggie Bush, RB USC
2. New Orleans Mario Williams, DE NC State
3. Tennessee Matt Leinart, QB USC
4. N.Y. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson, T Virginia
5. Green Bay A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio St.
6. San Francisco Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland Vince Young, QB Texas
8. Buffalo Brodrick Bunkley, DT Florida St.
9. Detroit Michael Huff, DB Texas
10. Arizona Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
11. St. Louis Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
12. Cleveland Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida St.
13. Baltimore Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
14. Philadelphia Winston Justice, T USC
15. Denver (from ATL) Chad Jackson, WR Florida
16. Miami Donte Whitner, S Ohio St.
17. Minnesota Ernie Sims, LB Florida St.
18. Dallas Jason Allen, S/CB Tennessee
19. San Diego Johnathan Joseph, CB South Carolina
20. Kansas City Tye Hill, CB Clemson
21. New England Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio St.
22. Denver (from WSH) DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
23. Tampa Bay Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida St.
24. Cincinnati Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
25. N.Y. Giants Kelly Jennings, CB Miami
26. Chicago Richard Marshall CB Fresno St.
27. Carolina LenDale White, RB USC
28. Jacksonville Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. N.Y. Jets (from DEN) Manny Lawson, DE/OLB NC State
30. Indianapolis Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
31. Seattle Ashton Youboty, CB Ohio St.
32. Pittsburgh Sinorice Moss, WR Miami




1st Round | 2nd Round | 3rd Round | 4th Round

Second-Round Projections
33. Houston Eric Winston, T Miami
34. New Orleans Nick Mangold, C Ohio St.
35. N.Y. Jets Joseph Addai, RB LSU
36. Green Bay Tamba Hali, DE Penn St.
37. San Francisco Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio St.
38. Oakland Gabe Watson, DT Michigan
39. Tennessee D'Qwell Jackson, LB Maryland
40. Detroit Davin Joseph, G Oklahoma
41. Arizona Leonard Pope, TE Georgia
42. Buffalo Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, G USC
43. Cleveland Abdul Hodge, LB Iowa
44. Baltimore Brodie Croyle, QB Alabama
45. Philadelphia DeMeco Ryans, LB Alabama
46. St. Louis Orien Harris, DT Miami
47. Atlanta Cedric Griffin, CB Texas
48. Minnesota Kellen Clemens, QB Oregon
49. Dallas Marcus McNeill, T Auburn
50. San Diego Demetrius Williams, WR Oregon
51. Minnesota (from MIA) Chris Chester, OL Oklahoma
52. New England Brian Calhoun, RB Wisconsin
53. Washington Rocky McIntosh, LB Miami
54. Kansas City Darryl Tapp, DE Virginia Tech
55. Cincinnati Dominique Byrd, TE USC
56. N.Y. Giants Thomas Howard, LB UTEP
57. Chicago Greg Jennings, WR Western Michigan
58. Carolina Joe Klopfenstein, TE Colorado
59. Tampa Bay Andrew Whitworth, T LSU
60. Jacksonville Jason Spitz, C Louisville
61. Denver Mark Anderson, DE Alabama
62. Indianapolis Daniel Bullocks, DB Nebraska
63. Seattle Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College
64. Pittsburgh Danieal Manning, DB Abilene Christian




1st Round | 2nd Round | 3rd Round | 4th Round

Third-Round Projections
65. Houston Ko Simpson, DB South Carolina
66. Houston (from NO) Gerris Wilkinson, LB Georgia Tech
67. Green Bay Max Jean-Gilles, G Georgia
68. San Francisco David Pittman, CB Northwestern St. (La.)
69. Oakland Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
70. Buffalo (from TEN) Ryan O'Callaghan, T California
71. N.Y. Jets Brandon Williams, WR Wisconsin
72. Arizona Jon Alston, LB Stanford
73. Buffalo Maurice Stovall, WR Notre Dame
74. Detroit Devin Hester, CB Miami
75. New England (from BAL) Chris Gocong, DE/LB Cal Poly-SLO
76. Philadelphia Claude Wroten, DT LSU
77. St. Louis David Thomas, TE Texas
78. Cleveland Charles Spencer, G Pittsburgh
79. Atlanta Calvin Lowery, DB Penn St.
80. Dallas Charlie Whitehurst, QB Clemson
81. San Diego Paul McQuistan, OL Weber St.
82. Miami Parys Haralson, DE Tennessee
83. Minnesota Will Blackmon, WR/CB Boston College
84. San Francisco (from WSH) Victor Adeyanju, DE Indiana
85. Kansas City Brandon Marshall, WR Central Florida
86. New England Montavious Stanley, DT Louisville
87. N.Y. Giants Kyle Williams, DT LSU
88. Chicago Anthony Fasano, TE Notre Dame
89. Carolina Darnell Bing, DB USC
90. Tampa Bay Willie Reid, WR Fresno St.
91. Cincinnati Stanley McClover, DE Auburn
92. Jacksonville Jerome Harrison, RB Washington St.
93. Atlanta (from DEN) Devin Aromashodu, WR Auburn
94. Indianapolis Dusty Dvoracek, DT Oklahoma
95. Minnesota (from SEA) Le Kevin Smith, DT Nebraska
96. Pittsburgh Brent Hawkins, DE/OLB Illinois St.

97. N.Y. Jets (comp. pick) Roman Harper, DB Alabama




1st Round | 2nd Round | 3rd Round | 4th Round

Fourth-Round Projections
98. Houston James Wyche, DE Syracuse
99. New Orleans Demetrice Webb, CB Florida
100. San Francisco Lawrence Vickers, FB Colorado
101. Oakland Anthony Smith, DB Syracuse
102. Tennessee Leon Washington, RB Florida St.
103. N.Y. Jets Alan Zemaitis, CB Penn St.
104. Green Bay Derrick Martin, CB Wyoming
105. Buffalo Elvis Dumervil, DE Louisville
106. New England (from DET) Guy Whimper, T East Carolina
107. Arizona Fred Matua, G USC
108. Philadelphia David Kirtman, FB USC
109. St. Louis Kevin Boothe, OL Cornell
110. Cleveland DeMario Minter, CB Georgia
111. Baltimore Dion Byrum, CB Ohio
112. Cleveland (from ATL) Rodrique Wright, DT Texas
113. San Diego Babatunde Oshinowo, DT Stanford
114. Miami Zach Strief, T Northwestern
115. Minnesota Miles Austin, WR Monmouth
116. Philadelphia (from DAL) Tarvaris Jackson, QB Alabama St.
117. N.Y. Jets (from KC) Greg Eslinger, C Minnesota
118. New England Derek Hagan, WR Arizona St.
119. Denver (from WSH) Owen Daniels, TE Wisconsin
120. Chicago Freddie Keiaho, LB San Diego St.
121. Carolina Jonathan Scott, T Texas
122. Tampa Bay Brandon Johnson, LB Louisville
123. Cincinnati John McCargo, DT NC State
124. N.Y. Giants Jeremy Trueblood, T Boston College
125. Jacksonville James Anderson, LB Virginia Tech
126. Denver Bernard Pollard, DB Purdue
127. Philadelphia (from IND) Hank Baskett, WR New Mexico
128. Seattle John Torp, P Colorado
129. Pittsburgh Andre Hall, RB South Florida

130. Denver (comp. pick) Jeremy Bloom, WR Colorado

131. Pittsburgh (comp. pick) Daryn Colledge, T Boise St.

132. Baltimore (comp. pick) Rob Sims, G Ohio St.

133. Pittsburgh (comp. pick) Omar Jacobs, QB Bowling Green

[Requiem]

Colledge, Sims and Jacobs would all be better than Bloom at this point. Do I even have to name off the others as well?

[eddie mac]

The only 2 I could live with are Williams and Anderson although I think late 2nd is even too high for him. Wouldn't worry though because Kiper doesn't know his ass from his elbow when it comes to Broncos drafts.

[Requiem]

Most people don't, and that's what makes me frustrated. Yeah, I like being surprised, but I'm only 19 and last year I almost had a heart attack watching the first day. Things panned out well (for the most part) but I think everyone and their dog was pooping their pants when we took three CB's and Maurice.

I actually like that draft though. The value is pretty solid. Even though I think there could be better picks, (as I have mentioned earlier) Kiper does address our needs. The only pick I'd be really ticked at is Bloom. I just cannot stomach that. Give us any of the three I mentioned that came after him, and I'll give that draft a B+/A-.

[eddie mac]

Most people don't, and that's what makes me frustrated. Yeah, I like being surprised, but I'm only 19 and last year I almost had a heart attack watching the first day. Things panned out well (for the most part) but I think everyone and their dog was pooping their pants when we took three CB's and Maurice.

I actually like that draft though. The value is pretty solid. Even though I think there could be better picks, (as I have mentioned earlier) Kiper does address our needs. The only pick I'd be really ticked at is Bloom. I just cannot stomach that. Give us any of the three I mentioned that came after him, and I'll give that draft a B+/A-.

That's the thing though. How often do the Broncos address their needs via the draft??? We've needed a solid pass rusher for years and have never drafted one since Pryce.

[watermock]

Most people don't, and that's what makes me frustrated. Yeah, I like being surprised, but I'm only 19 and last year I almost had a heart attack watching the first day. Things panned out well (for the most part) but I think everyone and their dog was pooping their pants when we took three CB's and Maurice.

I actually like that draft though. The value is pretty solid. Even though I think there could be better picks, (as I have mentioned earlier) Kiper does address our needs. The only pick I'd be really ticked at is Bloom. I just cannot stomach that. Give us any of the three I mentioned that came after him, and I'll give that draft a B+/A-.

Grasshopper, you must learn to roll with the puches or entirely avoid lethal foe...this mean room with many enemy...must keep guard up...nervous we are every offseson...

[Requiem]

False, we did draft Hayward, but I have a hard time remembering what our exact line-up was like at the time. It took him a few years, (which is usually how long it takes for a project guy like Hayward coming out of college [Iowa St.]) to develop. He had 8.5 sacks his junior and 10.5 sacks his senior year here. Would it have been worth it to keep him over bringing in Ian Gold? Absolutely.

Hayward's contract isn't that big, and Denver has usually faired well with getting linebackers.

In essence, this is what not signing Hayward did to our team:

A) Weakened our pass-rush.
B) DJ Williams was a first-round selection who excels at the weak-side, he's a solid player at the SLB, but since we run nickel so much and he's not in on those plays, we essentially drafted a guy in round one (moved up for him might I add) who is out of position and doesn't play nearly as many snaps as he should. Compare his freshman to sophomore year, you'll see where he's best. (Denver usually does well evaluating LB talent (forget Pierce) so why not keep a pass rusher, in which we usually ignore in the draft and if we do, miss big -- and find a linebacker to play SLB at a cheap price?

I could elaborate more, but just look at the contracts.

Hayward:

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">550000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">1450000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2500000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">3500000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">5000000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Gold:

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">540000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">670000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2300000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2750000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">3400000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2010</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">4590000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Now in hindsight, who was more worth it? Reggie Hayward, eight days out of the week. Who the hell knew we'd pay 20 million plus for another linebacker? Not me!

[eddie mac]

Did anyone notice Torp's a 4th round pick in that mock???

[Requiem]

Yeah, I laughed when I saw that too. The Seahawks just re-signed Rouen, and it's absolutely dick**** laughable that a punter is going in the fourth. Especially Torp, who is solid -- but come on.

[eddie mac]

Yeah, I laughed when I saw that too. The Seahawks just re-signed Rouen, and it's absolutely dick**** laughable that a punter is going in the fourth. Especially Torp, who is solid -- but come on.

What round did we take Harris in a few years agoLOL

[Requiem]

Haha, the fourth... coincidentally when we took Toviessi (****) and Hayward. Hamilton too. Too bad the only good pick out of that draft who is still on our team is Benny.

[eddie mac]

Denver have a far better record of hits, either drafting 1st rd defensive players or 2nd-4th rounders than 1st rd offensive players.

[DomCasual]

False, we did draft Hayward, but I have a hard time remembering what our exact line-up was like at the time. It took him a few years, (which is usually how long it takes for a project guy like Hayward coming out of college [Iowa St.]) to develop. He had 8.5 sacks his junior and 10.5 sacks his senior year here. Would it have been worth it to keep him over bringing in Ian Gold? Absolutely.

Hayward's contract isn't that big, and Denver has usually faired well with getting linebackers.

In essence, this is what not signing Hayward did to our team:

A) Weakened our pass-rush.
B) DJ Williams was a first-round selection who excels at the weak-side, he's a solid player at the SLB, but since we run nickel so much and he's not in on those plays, we essentially drafted a guy in round one (moved up for him might I add) who is out of position and doesn't play nearly as many snaps as he should. Compare his freshman to sophomore year, you'll see where he's best. (Denver usually does well evaluating LB talent (forget Pierce) so why not keep a pass rusher, in which we usually ignore in the draft and if we do, miss big -- and find a linebacker to play SLB at a cheap price?

I could elaborate more, but just look at the contracts.

Hayward:

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">550000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">1450000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2500000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">3500000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">5000000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Gold:

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">540000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">670000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2300000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2750000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">3400000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2010</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">4590000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Now in hindsight, who was more worth it? Reggie Hayward, eight days out of the week. Who the hell knew we'd pay 20 million plus for another linebacker? Not me!
Very nice take.

[DomCasual]

Haha, the fourth... coincidentally when we took Toviessi (****) and Hayward. Hamilton too. Too bad the only good pick out of that draft who is still on our team is Benny.
I still think Toviessi has upside. He's just pacing himself so he doesn't peak too early.

[Orange_Beard]

Yeah, I laughed when I saw that too. The Seahawks just re-signed Rouen, and it's absolutely dick**** laughable that a punter is going in the fourth. Especially Torp, who is solid -- but come on.

I disagree. The Seahawks have VERY few weaknesses after free agency.
The might just take a shot at upgrading one of the weaker spots they have left.
With the money they threw around in FA they are going for it now, so taking a player to develop vs. taking a player who may upgrade a weakness is worth a shot.

IMHO same logic as the Broncos taking Bloom. If we were a weaker team(ie the Chiefs HA,HA) , we could grab someone to develop, since we are not Bloom would up grade a "weakness". It would be nice to get a couple of TD's a year from the return game, or atleast improved field postion.
I remember hearing that Bloom was working out with Eddie Mac. If this is true and Eddie Mac says he can play, then take him.

[Requiem]

Heh. I don't know how to approach that one. I guess I could go down through the drafts we've had recently.

With the exception of Clarett, we're going to have a solid draft class for '05. Foxworth and Williams did well last year and Paymah is a guy who could really suprise. I think Myers is an eventual starter and Paul Ernster isn't somebody we should look over. He could be the heir to Elam in a couple years.

In '04, we've had DJ Williams and Tatum Bell who have been good contributors. Watts right now is up in the air, and if we draft a receiver early, I think he'll have a hard time bouncing back, might never be a starter, but still a decent depth guy. (Too bad about last year, I had high hopes.) LeSueur, Shoate (probably will be cut if he hasn't already) Luke, Sewell and Mauck aren't even on our team anymore. Talk about piss-poor drafting in rounds 5-6. BVP is still here, as is Miree. (Woopaday-doo!)

2003 was a piece of **** drafting year. George Foster is the only thing that was good to come out of that. We drafted four lineman that year and each and everyone sucked nuts!

2002 was a very good year. Lelie, Portis, Putzier, Brandon and Pope all contributed solidly at some point in their career. Too bad, only two fo them are left on the team, and one of them will actually be gone very soon, and at the very latest the end of this year.

2001 was when he had Hayward and Hamilton, only one of them is with us today.

2000 was by far the best in recent memory. O'Neal (regardless of what people say, he's a Pro-Bowler and one of the better corners in the league.) Gold, Kennedy, Carlisle and Anderson. Also take note, O'Neal, Kennedy, and Anderson are gone. Gold was gone at one point too.

Interesting though, looking back. Most of the good players we've drafted -- have went elsewhere. Funny, huh?

We don't have much success at all, but it's safe to say we usually get one or two contributors, but the length they're on the roster depends, especially when we let the good ones get away.

[Requiem]

I disagree. The Seahawks have VERY few weaknesses after free agency.
The might just take a shot at upgrading one of the weaker spots they have left.
With the money they threw around in FA they are going for it now, so taking a player to develop vs. taking a player who may upgrade a weakness is worth a shot.

IMHO same logic as the Broncos taking Bloom. If we were a weaker team(ie the Chiefs HA,HA) , we could grab someone to develop, since we are not Bloom would up grade a "weakness". It would be nice to get a couple of TD's a year from the return game, or atleast improved field postion.
I remember hearing that Bloom was working out with Eddie Mac. If this is true and Eddie Mac says he can play, then take him.

I respect your opinion, but Rouen was solid last year. Yeah, he's old -- but a fourth rounder on a punter? Nah. You can find a guy capable of doing the job in UDFA or later on in the "poop" rounds as I call them.

[eddie mac]

Heh. I don't know how to approach that one. I guess I could go down through the drafts we've had recently.

With the exception of Clarett, we're going to have a solid draft class for '05. Foxworth and Williams did well last year and Paymah is a guy who could really suprise. I think Myers is an eventual starter and Paul Ernster isn't somebody we should look over. He could be the heir to Elam in a couple years.

In '04, we've had DJ Williams and Tatum Bell who have been good contributors. Watts right now is up in the air, and if we draft a receiver early, I think he'll have a hard time bouncing back, might never be a starter, but still a decent depth guy. (Too bad about last year, I had high hopes.) LeSueur, Shoate (probably will be cut if he hasn't already) Luke, Sewell and Mauck aren't even on our team anymore. Talk about piss-poor drafting in rounds 5-6. BVP is still here, as is Miree. (Woopaday-doo!)

2003 was a piece of **** drafting year. George Foster is the only thing that was good to come out of that. We drafted four lineman that year and each and everyone sucked nuts!

2002 was a very good year. Lelie, Portis, Putzier, Brandon and Pope all contributed solidly at some point in their career. Too bad, only two fo them are left on the team, and one of them will actually be gone very soon, and at the very latest the end of this year.

2001 was when he had Hayward and Hamilton, only one of them is with us today.

2000 was by far the best in recent memory. O'Neal (regardless of what people say, he's a Pro-Bowler and one of the better corners in the league.) Gold, Kennedy, Carlisle and Anderson. Also take note, O'Neal, Kennedy, and Anderson are gone. Gold was gone at one point too.

Interesting though, looking back. Most of the good players we've drafted -- have went elsewhere. Funny, huh?

We don't have much success at all, but it's safe to say we usually get one or two contributors, but the length they're on the roster depends, especially when we let the good ones get away.

Unless they've excelled at their positions Denver are always looking for the cheaper option, like last year. Warren, Brown, Ekuban and Myers all for the same $5m a year as Hayward got. Ferguson for 1/3 of what Kennedy got. It's only when they feel that they cant replace the player from the current roster or cheaper from another team do they re-sign their own guys, i.e Lepsis and Warren.

I totally agree with the 2nd day draft analysis. We are totally abysmal there apart from RB and OL.

[rubaiyat]

False, we did draft Hayward, but I have a hard time remembering what our exact line-up was like at the time. It took him a few years, (which is usually how long it takes for a project guy like Hayward coming out of college [Iowa St.]) to develop. He had 8.5 sacks his junior and 10.5 sacks his senior year here. Would it have been worth it to keep him over bringing in Ian Gold? Absolutely.

Hayward's contract isn't that big, and Denver has usually faired well with getting linebackers.

In essence, this is what not signing Hayward did to our team:

A) Weakened our pass-rush.
B) DJ Williams was a first-round selection who excels at the weak-side, he's a solid player at the SLB, but since we run nickel so much and he's not in on those plays, we essentially drafted a guy in round one (moved up for him might I add) who is out of position and doesn't play nearly as many snaps as he should. Compare his freshman to sophomore year, you'll see where he's best. (Denver usually does well evaluating LB talent (forget Pierce) so why not keep a pass rusher, in which we usually ignore in the draft and if we do, miss big -- and find a linebacker to play SLB at a cheap price?

I could elaborate more, but just look at the contracts.

Hayward:

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">550000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">1450000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2500000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">3500000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">5000000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Gold:

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">540000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">670000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2300000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">2750000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">3400000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2010</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">4590000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Now in hindsight, who was more worth it? Reggie Hayward, eight days out of the week. Who the hell knew we'd pay 20 million plus for another linebacker? Not me!


That's forgetting bonuses I think. I've seen on ESPN the tradeoff and it was basically ALL of the Browncos vs Reggie Hayward's contract...at least the first year.

[Orange_Beard]

I respect your opinion, but Rouen was solid last year. Yeah, he's old -- but a fourth rounder on a punter? Nah. You can find a guy capable of doing the job in UDFA or later on in the "poop" rounds as I call them.


That is part of my point.
If you use the simple scale of:
Excellent
Very Good
Good
Fair
Poor
Rouen is good. Capable. We know what he can do.
If they see this guy as very good or potentially better then very good, at this point they need to grab him.
With all the money they tossed around, they are looking to replace/upgrade there good/capable players.

[Requiem]

Yes, Denver is always into looking for the cheaper options, but does that always mean they're better. Pass rush wise, Hayward did just as much as the guys we signed. Yeah, our guys did okay, but none of them stick out like Reggie did. Yes, we did get the "Browncos" (Still think I was the first to coin that phrase when it happened, as that was the title of my thread when I reported it on DB.com's board) for cheaper, I realize that. I'm not sure what the bonuses were, but I'm sure it's similar for Ian Gold and Reggie Hayward.

But think of it this way. You keep Hayward and get to add the Browncos to the list. Now that's solid. With the limited role a SLB has in our defense, our option should have been to get one cheap. I'd have to look at the FA market that year to see the options available.

[Rascal]

Yes, Denver is always into looking for the cheaper options, but does that always mean they're better. Pass rush wise, Hayward did just as much as the guys we signed. Yeah, our guys did okay, but none of them stick out like Reggie did. Yes, we did get the "Browncos" (Still think I was the first to coin that phrase when it happened, as that was the title of my thread when I reported it on DB.com's board) for cheaper, I realize that. I'm not sure what the bonuses were, but I'm sure it's similar for Ian Gold and Reggie Hayward.

But think of it this way. You keep Hayward and get to add the Browncos to the list. Now that's solid. With the limited role a SLB has in our defense, our option should have been to get one cheap. I'd have to look at the FA market that year to see the options available.

With Henderson and Stroud in the middle I could get 4 sacks on that line. Tackles are bound to stumble a couple of times and occasionally there will be a mix up when a blitz is on.

[Requiem]

Henderson and Stroud do help Hayward, (if that's your point) but Hayward was putting up solid sack totals here too. He's a solid defensive end, regardless if other people around him help his cause. That's not really a bad thing, that's really good.

[Requiem]

That is part of my point.
If you use the simple scale of:
Excellent
Very Good
Good
Fair
Poor
Rouen is good. Capable. We know what he can do.
If they see this guy as very good or potentially better then very good, at this point they need to grab him.
With all the money they tossed around, they are looking to replace/upgrade there good/capable players.

My scale is a little different, but Torp wouldn't have a bigger impact than Tom. Plus, I think Torp is a round five guy at best.