Any Chance we move to a 3-4?

[Ballhawk]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.

[Requiem]

Hell no. We don't have a 3-4 end, we don't have the linebackers for it. **** no.

[TheManeMan]

Oh man...not this sh!t again!...

:oyvey:

[Ballhawk]

Hell no. We don't have a 3-4 end, we don't have the linebackers for it. **** no.

Meyers, Brown, Lang can all play 3-4 end. People complain that all they can do is hold up the line, well thats what a 3-4 Dline does. So instead of drafting a DE and a DT we take two tweeners that can play OLB in a 3-4. That is something that there are plenty of in this draft.

[ludo21]

I agree, not this again.............good topic to discuss tho, nothign better to do.

[clint7]

Yep, sure...after picking up all the Cleveland guys who were let go because the Browns switched to 3-4...why not! :)

[-Slap-]

The linebackers are still too small. The linebackers in Pittsburgh all weigh in at 240+ and New England's are even bigger, in fact 3/4 of the LBs in NE are former linemen. We use schemes to keep blockers off our LBs, in a 3-4 they would be expected to step up and shed blocks all the time. It would take a fairly major personnel change to do it right.

[Ballhawk]

Yep, sure...after picking up all the Cleveland guys who were let go because the Browns switched to 3-4...why not! :)

Clev wanted to keep Brown and Meyers and did keep Lang all because they fit a 3-4. It is not like we have speed rushers at DE. To fix our line we are going to need a good DT and a great DE...where in this draft do you see those at #15 and #22. If we could land Bunkley and Mario GREAT, but we cant. We can however trade down from #15 to 23-26 range, pick up an extra 2nd and get two great 3-4 lbs. Then grab a TE and G in the 2nd.

Like I said random thought but with 2 weeks until draft day it is at least something to discuss, even if its a little crazy.

[Popps]

By a quick look at our defensive personnel, I'd suspect we'll be moving to a 1-3-7 next year.

[Ballhawk]

The linebackers are still too small. The linebackers in Pittsburgh all weigh in at 240+ and New England's are even bigger, in fact 3/4 of the LBs in NE are former linemen. We use schemes to keep blockers off our LBs, in a 3-4 they would be expected to step up and shed blocks all the time. It would take a fairly major personnel change to do it right.
True, but DJ, Lawson Kiwa would all be 250+ with speed off the edge, even Predator may see some time in this scheme inside or out.

Gold is really the only piece that does not fit. Question is looking at this draft would it be easier to find a good DT and DE or two decent LBs?

[clint7]

Like I said random thought but with 2 weeks until draft day it is at least something to discuss, even if its a little crazy.

Believe me...I welcome something different than talk about "Should we trade up?" "Should we trade down?" "Lelie vs Plummer." 3-4 debate all you want, man! :approve:

[-Slap-]

Clev wanted to keep Brown and Meyers and did keep Lang all because they fit a 3-4. It is not like we have speed rushers at DE. To fix our line we are going to need a good DT and a great DE...where in this draft do you see those at #15 and #22. If we could land Bunkley and Mario GREAT, but we cant. We can however trade down from #15 to 23-26 range, pick up an extra 2nd and get two great 3-4 lbs. Then grab a TE and G in the 2nd.

Like I said random thought but with 2 weeks until draft day it is at least something to discuss, even if its a little crazy.
I've never been a big fan of the 3-4, but it wouldn't kill me if made the switch. We haven't been able to generate pressure from a 4-3 and you can get a lot more creative with a 3-4. It would also mean we would get some bigger LBs which would please me greatly.

[ludo21]

Clev wanted to keep Brown and Meyers and did keep Lang all because they fit a 3-4. It is not like we have speed rushers at DE. To fix our line we are going to need a good DT and a great DE...where in this draft do you see those at #15 and #22. If we could land Bunkley and Mario GREAT, but we cant. We can however trade down from #15 to 23-26 range, pick up an extra 2nd and get two great 3-4 lbs. Then grab a TE and G in the 2nd.

Like I said random thought but with 2 weeks until draft day it is at least something to discuss, even if its a little crazy.


Lang was being converted to OLB because he didnt fit the DE scheme. He didnt fit it in Crennels 3-4 and it wont work for him here.

The overhaul it would take on our D to make the change is insane, forget it.

[Jason in LA]

This has been a topic every year since I've been posting on message boards. I started posting back in '99.

Hasn't happened yet, and it doesn't look like it will happen.

[Kaylore]

Oh man...not this sh!t again!...

:oyvey:
Welcome to the Offseason on Orange Mane!:afro:

[Raider Bill]

The reason Crennell got rid of all those DL is because they didnt fit in a 3-4, I think he knows a little bit about implimenting a 30 front defense!

[Raider Bill]

Like Slap said, your OLB's have to gap up and take on blocks and set the edge in the run game in a 30 front.

The Donks are better served in a 4-3 over/under alignment, with Brown playing base end, Warren shading the center, and Myers at the 3 technique.

Weakside end is a sore spot still, but having one hole is better than playing you're entire front 7 against their strengths with Manny Lawson coming off the edge at OLB.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

It'll happen simply because there hasn't been an idiotic article from one of the beat writers suggesting that they might do it situationally this year.

[Sodak]

The 3-4 does seem a bit trendy lately. How many teams have switched back to the 4-3 after a two or three year 3-4 experiment? Didn't the Ravens finally dump the 3-4 also?

[ozomulsion]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.

The chances of that are as good as Watermock waking up tomorrow having atained life-long sobriety.

[anthonypacino]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.
not snowball's chance in hell

[Rausch]

This discussion seems to come up every year on about every NFL BB.

My opinion is you'll find 4 motivated and talented LB's before you find 4 motivated and talented D Lineman.

I can't remember the last time the Steelers defense just outright sucked, but I can remember when every defense in our division has in just the last 10 years...

[SteveTensi13]

Sure, if we can bring back Rubin Carter, Barney Chavous and resurrect Lyle Alzado from the dead. Maybe Gradishar, Rizzo, Swenson and Jackson can make a comeback!

[azbroncfan]

This discussion seems to come up every year on about every NFL BB.

My opinion is you'll find 4 motivated and talented LB's before you find 4 motivated and talented D Lineman.

I can't remember the last time the Steelers defense just outright sucked, but I can remember when every defense in our division has in just the last 10 years...

Thats because the squeelers have never went against it even when the trendy idea was the 4-3 dallas and Balt style and at one point they might have been the only 3-4 team. I think it would take a few drafts and some FA's to make it effective. Pitt drafts guys to fit their system and they let them go and don't over pay them.

[Rausch]

Thats because the squeelers have never went against it even when the trendy idea was the 4-3 dallas and Balt style and at one point they might have been the only 3-4 team. I think it would take a few drafts and some FA's to make it effective. Pitt drafts guys to fit their system and they let them go and don't over pay them.

Exactly.

I think it'd take 2-3 years to complete the transition and a HC/DC willing to suffer the growing pains.

But I also think it's the reason Pitt has had success. With the speed of the NFL ramping up you need more guys who can cover ground quickly. I also think that's a big reason why Denver's defense has been so good. You guys have some amazing speed at LB, and a secondary that can tackle.

No 1 you've got to be able to stop the run.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.

The only way the broncs do that is if you see them draft Wimbley and Lawson in the first round.

[Raider Bill]

My opinion is you'll find 4 motivated and talented LB's before you find 4 motivated and talented D Lineman.

Finding the 3 guys that want to eat double teams all game is the tougher part

[Rausch]

Finding the 3 guys that want to eat double teams all game is the tougher part

It's almost impossible to find a dominating DT for any defense, 3-4 or 4-3...

[yavoon]

I love the 3-4. otherwise no opinion on this:)

[SoCalBronco]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.

Carpenter is actually a prototype 3-4 OLB, not ILB.

We couldnt shift to the 3-4. We have 3 3-4 ILB types and no bona fide 3-4 OLB types. Predator is the closest thing to a 3-4 OLB on this team and that says alot.

[anthonypacino]

Carpenter is actually a prototype 3-4 OLB, not ILB.

We couldnt shift to the 3-4. We have 3 3-4 ILB types and no bona fide 3-4 OLB types. Predator is the closest thing to a 3-4 OLB on this team and that says alot.
you are right, i wonder why they don't throw Pred in on some blitzes more often, you could line him up kinda how Collier and Phillips used Simon Fletcher. Not as often but a few times to mix it up. He would be wicked coming off the edge, at least a few times a game.

[Rausch]

Carpenter is actually a prototype 3-4 OLB, not ILB.

We couldnt shift to the 3-4. We have 3 3-4 ILB types and no bona fide 3-4 OLB types. Predator is the closest thing to a 3-4 OLB on this team and that says alot.


I alwas felt like Gold would make a good 3-4 OLB...

[SoCalBronco]

I alwas felt like Gold would make a good 3-4 OLB...

He's too small. 3-4 OLB need to be around 250-255. He's limited to being a 43 WLB.

Hell, if it were up to me, id trade him to you guys for a bag of jelly beans.

And I dont really like jelly beans.

[TheManeMan]

Welcome to the Offseason on Orange Mane!:afro:

I knew it was coming dude...Just didnt expect it from a guy who's been around for 2 years...I was thinking along the lines of late 05 or early 06...

[Kaylore]

Out of the top ten defenses in 2005 only one used a 3-4. All the rest were using a 4-3.

[Ballhawk]

I know we are not going to a 3-4, but hell it was the only topic from last year that had not been brought up yet :)

Ohh and will BVP play QB or is he are future SS lol

[cutthemdown]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.
STOOOOOPID idea.

[broncohaven]

Out of the top ten defenses in 2005 only one used a 3-4. All the rest were using a 4-3.
Which one used the 3-4?

[Ballhawk]

Which one used the 3-4?

I would say Pitt, but NE's D had a down year but has had some success. Also SD went from a crap D to a very good D two years ago, but also fell off last year. Dallas, Houston, Clev, SF all switched over to a 3-4 last year. May be more it is a pretty trendy D atm.

[ozomulsion]

Out of the top ten defenses in 2005 only one used a 3-4. All the rest were using a 4-3.

Who cares? Five of the last six Super Bowl winners used a 3-4. Not to say I think were're in position to switch because we're obviously not.

[Mile High Shack]

No

end of thread

[ozomulsion]

No

end of thread

To the butt!

[Odysseus]

The linebackers are still too small. The linebackers in Pittsburgh all weigh in at 240+ and New England's are even bigger, in fact 3/4 of the LBs in NE are former linemen. We use schemes to keep blockers off our LBs, in a 3-4 they would be expected to step up and shed blocks all the time. It would take a fairly major personnel change to do it right.

This thread is over. Nothing to see here. Just move along...move along.

[Requiem]

Who could argue it anyways? Whoever told me Lang could play at 3-4 and is ****ing kidding themselves, along with Myers.

[Taco John]

It'll happen simply because there hasn't been an idiotic article from one of the beat writers suggesting that they might do it situationally this year.



In fairness, the Broncos were practicing the 3-4 at times last season, and Coyer was telling reporters that they might use it situationally.

[Ballhawk]

Who could argue it anyways? Whoever told me Lang could play at 3-4 and is ****ing kidding themselves, along with Myers.

Ya that was me, I was thinking Roye for some reason, but Meyers could play end.

Of course with Meyers could alway slide inside and bring up Lawson into a 3pt stance. Not sure how different it would be from Coyer constantly dropping lineman back in coverage, except that the guy dropping back would have some coverage ability. Here is a quick draft scenario (because yes Im that bored of taliking about our 1st round picks):

Trade down from 15 to 23 and pick up an additional 2nd (#59)

#22 Wimbley- LB 248 lbs and runs a 4.6, great pass rusher
#23 Lawson-LB 241 lbs but has a 6'5" frame that can carry 10 more lbs easy without losing any of that 4.41 forty speed.
#59 Wright-DE in 3-4
#61 Hagen-wr
#119 Tim Day-te
#126 Mayua-G
#Watkins-S
#161 Fifita-NT

Not the prettiest Draft but I just threw it together. So its not like it cant be done, but obviously offense would not get that true playmaker.

[watermock]

I know this was a hot topic last year, but with Denver rumored to not like any DEs in this draft why not move to 3-4? Brown, Meyers and Lang are all suited to play end in a 3-4, we could pick up a couple guys like Lawson, Kiwa or Carpenter and whamo...we have a pass rush. Carpenter inside with Wilson and Lawson and DJ on the outside would be sweet.

We could trade down to 23 and pick up an extra second and then grab a TE and NT in round 2...anyways random thought.

I've explanined this so many times. Coyer is a 4-3 guy anyway, and concievably we could swich by putting Warren at NT, Brown at RDE and Who again at RE? We could move Gold and DJ outsiid but still need an inside LB. Other than Chucky.

It isn't going to happen.

[ozomulsion]

I've explanined this so many times. Coyer is a 4-3 guy anyway, and concievably we could swich by putting Warren at NT, Brown at RDE and Who again at RE? We could move Gold and DJ outsiid but still need an inside LB. Other than Chucky.

It isn't going to happen.

You can explain all you want. No one listens to you anyhow.

[Ballhawk]

I know its not going to happen, but it would give us a pass rush (and Meyers and Wright could man the RE).

Oh well send it to the butt then, but I do not see anything that is going to happen giving us a pass rush this year.

[Ratman]

Yes, that will be our record after week eight including a loss to Oakland.

[Requiem]

You know what would give us a pass-rush, good defensive lineman. It's absolutely pathetic that our leading sack man was a safety. Denver already has a really solid defense, and all they need is a guy or two on the line who can rush the passer to possibly push us over the top in that department. We'd already be there if we didn't let Hayward of Berry go. What a shame, huh?

[Drek]

Why we won't go to a 3-4:

Coyer has typically been a 4-3 guy.

Warren was not retained in Cleveland because he didn't want to play in a 3-4, not at DE and definately not at NT.

We cut our only DE who would work well in a 3-4. Ekuban, Brown, Lang, Engelberger, and this Jackson kid would all be wasted. Myers could move over, thats about it.

We have no exceptional 3-4 style OLBs. Williams could move inside but didn't amaze as a strong OLB, he'd suffer another big drop going to ILB if you ask me. Gold would be totally worthless. So we're left drafting two OLBs and hoping they and Chuck can combine for a good 3-4 OLB core?

The final, most important reason why we won't convert though? WE MADE THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME LAST YEAR! Seriously, talk about a good way to totally miss the '06 playoffs. Changing our defensive system would not be a seemless transition by any stretch of the imagination.

We're a 4-3 team until we begin to rebuild again. When that time comes I'm sure Coyer will be departing and Shanny/new HC will decide the style of defense he then wants to run. Personally though, I'd prefer a 3-4, I think the talent coming out of college nowadays is better suited to it.

[Rohirrim]

I'll answer this the same way I answer it every year: Why?

[Requiem]

Yeah, Drek's answer will do too. Show off! :P :D

[Mile High Shack]

No

end of thread

why it went beyond this ;)
I'll never know

[watermock]

You can explain all you want. No one listens to you anyhow.

Well watch them go to the 4-3 if I know nothing dimwit. I wrote this down put push your nose in it.

[Raider Bill]

Gold would get owned playing in a 3-4 trying to hold the edge vs the run.

[broncohaven]

I know the 3-4 is outside the realm of reality, but I would love to see DJ Williams employed in a similar manner to Merriman. I think he could be every bit the player that Merriman is looking to be in SD, but he's stuck out of position at Sam. Still solid, but could be nasty.

We had better personnel for a switch two years ago, but the recent moves show a commitment to the 4-3. When we re-signed Gold I gave up hope completely. I think the 3-4 is a much more versatile defense, as evidenced by recent SB winnners, but we missed our opportunity to transition when we had Pierceand Sykes and no talent on DL. Things have changed, and the 4-3 is here to stay; sadly.

[azbroncfan]

I know the 3-4 is outside the realm of reality, but I would love to see DJ Williams employed in a similar manner to Merriman. I think he could be every bit the player that Merriman is looking to be in SD, but he's stuck out of position at Sam. Still solid, but could be nasty.

We had better personnel for a switch two years ago, but the recent moves show a commitment to the 4-3. When we re-signed Gold I gave up hope completely. I think the 3-4 is a much more versatile defense, as evidenced by recent SB winnners, but we missed our opportunity to transition when we had Pierceand Sykes and no talent on DL. Things have changed, and the 4-3 is here to stay; sadly.

I don't know about that, merriman seems to be a bit bigger and more explosive.

[bendog]

I should neg rep myself for clicking on this thread.

[2KBack]

I don't know about that, merriman seems to be a bit bigger and more explosive.

DJ is not good at fighting off blocks, he's more finesse than MErriman. That's why he's not half the pass rusher.

[Odysseus]

I should neg rep myself for clicking on this thread.

Hilarious! Die thread die!

[Ballhawk]

I am still waiting for a decision on if I get a public flogging or stoning for starting this thread :) Cmon baby make it to 5 pages!!