NBA MVP Vote Here!!

[Master___Pain]

Just for ****s and grins, lets take an informal poll Of who the MVP will be.

[Jens1893]

Ask who SHOULD be the MVP.

[Master___Pain]

Ask who SHOULD be the MVP.

Meh, semantics. People get the jist of the question.

[GonzoLays]

I wonder who angryllama is going to vote for?

[Clockwork Orange]

I wonder who angryllama is going to vote for?

I dunno, he's been pretty vague about who he thinks should win it.

[Master___Pain]

I wonder who angryllama is going to vote for?

Ryan Gomes.

[Boobs McGee]

I wonder who angryllama is going to vote for?
Evan Eschmeyer;D

(since he seems to favor 7 foot goofy white guys)

[anthonypacino]

i don't follow the Association as much as alot of you guys, but every time I see a game on TV Dirk is always on the money. Without him I don't think the Mavs are much of a threat.

[minibronco]

Well, a purple and gold jersey? 6' 7''? lower meridion high?

DARE NOT SAY...

[ludo21]

W/out Nash Suns are a bottom of the barell team. Even more so this year w/out a Amare!!

The only guy left Nash is left with is Marion, a very good player, but im trying to point out the turnaround the roster has had, and the Suns are still only 10 wins off last years pace. (50 wins isnt slouching it either)

WOOOOOO

[Master___Pain]

Well, a purple and gold jersey? 6' 7''? lower meridion high?

DARE NOT SAY...

It's Merion, BTW

[orange 4 life]

gotta go with the hometown guy.

[spdirty]

Kenyon

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ask who SHOULD be the MVP.

That's the better question.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ryan Gomes.

No question. He's the best second round pick of all time.:notworthy

[epicSocialism4tw]

gotta go with the hometown guy.

I think that this idea will probably rule the poll.

[rbackfactory80]

The man from Motown

[TheManeMan]

Put my vote down for LeBron...

Yeah yeah...I know in the other thread I was talking about how Nash is going to get it...but, I woke up this morning and in my dream King James won the MVP...so I'm sticking with the subconscious on this one...;)

[ludo21]

Put my vote down for LeBron...

Yeah yeah...I know in the other thread I was talking about how Nash is going to get it...but, I woke up this morning and in my dream King James won the MVP...so I'm sticking with the subconscious on this one...;)



grrrrrrrrrrr.......

LB and Billups up by 1, come on Maners, show ur love for the Canadian!!

[azbroncfan]

I wonder who angryllama is going to vote for?

There is a thread on the front page where there are probably over 100 posts for his argument.

[epicSocialism4tw]

There is a thread on the front page where there are probably over 100 posts for his argument.

Someone really likes my posts. Thanks. I appreciate your concern with what I am doing. I understand that some people are leaders and some are followers, and I assure you that you have a place in the grand scheme too.:thumbsup:

[-Slap-]

Someone really likes my posts. Thanks. I appreciate your concern with what I am doing. I understand that some people are leaders and some are followers, and I assure you that you have a place in the grand scheme too.:thumbsup:
Your boy is llosing.

[ludo21]

come on Nash fans, Canadian needs ur votes!!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Your boy is llosing.

I know he's losing, but that's at no fault of his own. He's had an all-NBA season for the second consecutive year and is well on his way to a historical career. He hasnt even hit his peak yet.

I listened to an interview with Ric Bucher today where Bucher admitted that he was unfamiliar with the Mavs, and that he had not broken them down at all (must have been too busy propping up Yao of all people), BUT he didnt like Dirk for MVP because he thinks that he doesnt mean much to Dallas. He must have missed the fact that Dirk is the most important aspect of the Mavs' most important attribute, which is the leagues most efficient offense. But hey, he would have had to have watched some games and researched some game flow statistics to come up with that info. I guess that's expecting too much from a guy who gets paid to analyze a sport.

That's why Dirk wont win MVP. No shoe contract, no clothing line, no public image, no PR agent.

[rbackfactory80]

And thats why Dirk Nowitzki is my hero

[Clockwork Orange]

The Mane must be part of the media conspiracy.

[SoCalBronco]

And thats why Dirk Nowitzki is my hero

you forgot a whole bunch of these .....................

[epicSocialism4tw]

The Mane must be part of the media conspiracy.
There is no conspiracy. It's advertising. You just buy the product. Put your Nike's on, head up to McDonalds, and drive home in your Chevy to drink Coors and watch ESPiN like a good sheep should. Shepherded on by the grand marketing agency in the sky.

[Clockwork Orange]

There is no conspiracy. It's advertising. You just buy the product. Put your Nike's on, head up to McDonalds, and drive home in your Chevy to drink Coors and watch ESPiN like a good sheep should. Shepherded on by the grand marketing agency in the sky.

Ah, the ol' "If you don't agree with me it's because you've been brainwashed by television" line. Gotcha. Nice to see that you still can't bring anything of substance to any discussion on this matter.

Put on your tin foil hat and keep your eyes on the sky llama. The truth is out there! Ha!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ah, the ol' "If you don't agree with me it's because you've been brainwashed by television" line. Gotcha. Nice to see that you still can't bring anything of substance to any discussion on this matter.Put on your tin foil hat and keep your eyes on the sky llama. The truth is out there!

You'll understand when you get a little wiser. Maybe.

But until then, enjoy Stephen A. Smith, Ric Bucher, and the rest of the used car salesmen crew at ESPiN.

[ludo21]

You'll understand when you get a little wiser. Maybe.

But until then, enjoy Stephen A. Smith, Ric Bucher, and the rest of the used car salesmen crew at ESPiN.


Stephen A likes Nash for MVP as well, so for once i dont mind him ;D

Mcdonalds is gross tho.

[yavoon]

wtf kobe is winning? thats not god damn right.

[ludo21]

wtf kobe is winning? thats not god damn right.


havent you heard, he scored 81!!!:thumbs:

[yavoon]

havent you heard, he scored 81!!!:thumbs:

=D

[Clockwork Orange]

You'll understand when you get a little wiser. Maybe.

But until then, enjoy Stephen A. Smith, Ric Bucher, and the rest of the used car salesmen crew at ESPiN.

You'll figure it out if you ever pry your head out of your ass. Maybe.

When you have an ounce of credibility to speak of, come talk to me. That'll start when you can bring something more to a discussion than your lame conspiracy theories.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You'll figure it out if you ever pry your head out of your ass. Maybe.

When you have an ounce of credibility to speak of, come talk to me. That'll start when you can bring something more to a discussion than your lame conspiracy theories.

No conspiracy theory, chief...just business sense. They are selling product to you. High-flying dunks, sneakers, headbands, and memories of Micheal Jordan. They dont put that stuff on TV for the public good. ESPiN's website isnt up for the public good either.

[Clockwork Orange]

No conspiracy theory, chief...just business sense. They are selling product to you. High-flying dunks, sneakers, headbands, and memories of Micheal Jordan. They dont put that stuff on TV for the public good. ESPiN's website isnt up for the public good either.

I won't argue with that, the only thing is that accusing me of buying the ESPN hype when I've been one of the most critical of them for it is pretty misguided.

If I was buying their hype, I'd be arguing for Lebron or Kobe.

[epicSocialism4tw]

If I was buying their hype, I'd be arguing for Lebron or Kobe.
Or Nash. Nash is their West Coast hook right now. The Lakers are so bad that everyone in southern Cal knows that they really havent much of a chance. Phoenix has been marketed to the left coast all along. They are the new "showtime". Nash was just as exciting in Dallas, but didnt even make all-star games. He everaged about 2 less assists a game and was always a questionable player (just like Dirk) because he didnt play defense.

Now that he's on the left coast slinging the ball to Marion and Stoudemire he's an otherworldly player. He is producing quite a bit more now, and is playing at a slightly higher level, but he was pulling the same wild-man antics in Dallas. That team made it to the WC finals, but lost to the Spurs when Dirk went down.

Anyhoo, Nash is now part of the machine. If he wasnt Canadian, they would prop him up as one of the besg PG's of all time.

[Clockwork Orange]

Or Nash. Nash is their West Coast hook right now. The Lakers are so bad that everyone in southern Cal knows that they really havent much of a chance. Phoenix has been marketed to the left coast all along. They are the new "showtime". Nash was just as exciting in Dallas, but didnt even make all-star games. He everaged about 2 less assists a game and was always a questionable player (just like Dirk) because he didnt play defense.

Now that he's on the left coast slinging the ball to Marion and Stoudemire he's an otherworldly player. He is producing quite a bit more now, and is playing at a slightly higher level, but he was pulling the same wild-man antics in Dallas. That team made it to the WC finals, but lost to the Spurs when Dirk went down.

Anyhoo, Nash is now part of the machine. If he wasnt Canadian, they would prop him up as one of the besg PG's of all time.

Well, I think that's being pretty dismissive and I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[maher_tyler]

havent you heard, he scored 81!!!:thumbs:
On top of that the Lakers wouldn't be sh!t with out Kobe...he's the reason there anywhere near the #8 spot in the West!

[epicSocialism4tw]

On top of that the Lakers wouldn't be sh!t with out Kobe...he's the reason there anywhere near the #8 spot in the West!

You act like the number 8 spot is something to be proud of.

[Nuggets4]

Anyone else picture llama as a guy sitting in front of his computer with a tinfoil helmet?

[maven]

DWade

[freak6]

How is Carmelo not in this poll. He gets my vote. We won our division on his back, without him, we'd have 15 wins.

[Master___Pain]

How is Carmelo not in this poll. He gets my vote. We won our division on his back, without him, we'd have 15 wins.

I was going to put him on the ballot, but I knew if I did, there would be many homers that would select him with out putting out any thought. Then we'd have to listen to even more bitching on this subject if Melo were leading the poll.

Melo has been huge for this team, no doubt.

[ludo21]

I was going to put him on the ballot, but I knew if I did, there would be many homers that would select him with out putting out any thought. Then we'd have to listen to even more b****ing on this subkect if Melo were leading the poll.

Melo has been huge for this team, no doubt.


nononononoo NASH 4 EVA!!111 ;)

Melo played great, but the team benefited froma crap division, and limped their way to the division.

[Master___Pain]

So here's the thing about the "If _______ was not on the ___________s then they would have only won ______ games" Yeah, no ****, that's why they are being considered for MVP, they make the players around them better.

You take anyone of the poll nominees, except for perhaps D-Wade and Billups, and none of those player's teams would be sniffing the playoffs.

[epicSocialism4tw]

nononononoo NASH 4 EVA!!111 ;)

Melo played great, but the team benefited froma crap division, and limped their way to the division.

I cant say I disagree with that.

Anthony is on his way to a great NBA career though. Next season will be the season that he takes the next step. Whenever Anthony starts demanding excellence from the lazy guys on the squad with skills (Martin, Patterson, Camby, etc), the Nuggets will be a real contender. Anthony is that good. He needs to be a little more assertive, IMO, with those guys for that team to take the next step. I also think that they need a new coach. A guy like Scott Skiles who can push buttons and force guys to play defense.

Anthony's year will come. It should be next year.

[epicSocialism4tw]

So here's the thing about the "If _______ was not on the ___________s then they would have only won ______ games" Yeah, no ****, that's why they are being considered for MVP, they make the playersa round them better.

You take anyone of the poll nominees, except for perhaps D-Wade and Billups, and none of those player's teams would be sniffing the playoffs.

Finally! Someone adressed the idiocy of that argument!

Here's the deal, and this completely shuts that argument down...

MJordan retired for the first time, and the Pippen-Pete Myers Bulls still qualified for the playoffs and pushed the Knicks to 7 games in the Conference Semis.

Is Jordan not the greatest player of all time? Possibly the all-time MVP? Why does this argument fall extremely flat in this case?

[Master___Pain]

I cant say I disagree with that.

Anthony is on his way to a great NBA career though. Next season will be the season that he takes the next step. Whenever Anthony starts demanding excellence from the lazy guys on the squad with skills (Martin, Patterson, Camby, etc), the Nuggets will be a real contender. Anthony is that good. He needs to be a little more assertive, IMO, with those guys for that team to take the next step. I also think that they need a new coach. A guy like Scott Skiles who can push buttons and force guys to play defense.

Anthony's year will come. It should be next year.


Camby's is lazy... that's funny. Don't watch many Nuggets games do you?

[ludo21]

So here's the thing about the "If _______ was not on the ___________s then they would have only won ______ games" Yeah, no ****, that's why they are being considered for MVP, they make the players around them better.

You take anyone of the poll nominees, except for perhaps D-Wade and Billups, and none of those player's teams would be sniffing the playoffs.


I think the Suns would make the playoffs w/out Nash.

Marion is that good.:thumbs:

[Master___Pain]

I think the Suns would make the playoffs w/out Nash.

Marion is that good.:thumbs:

8th seed maybe?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Camby's is lazy... that's funny. Don't watch many Nuggets games do you?

Fragile might be a better description. Camby used to be a dominant player. I have no doubt that he has that ability. I have seen him play quite a bit and he looks like he slinks around on offense. If he gave more effort on defense, nobody could get to the basket.

[Master___Pain]

Fragile might be a better description. Camby used to be a dominant player. I have no doubt that he has that ability. I have seen him play quite a bit and he looks like he slinks around on offense. If he gave more effort on defense, nobody could get to the basket.

Since you have spoken on the matter is the issue closed?

If this is still up for discussion: Camby was the best center in the West this season( 16.5 pts, 14 reb 4 blocks Per game) until he broke he finger, which is still tow time the size of the same finger on his left hand. Yes, he does battle injuries and is fragile, but he was dominant this year and appears to be getting back to that form now. I shudder to think what the Nuggs D would look like if Camby were not manning the middle. To say that Camby is not giving maximum effort right now is insane.

Back to the original topic, this poll is pretty interesting. Kobe is leading (WTF?) and Nash is second, with Lebron and Chauncey behind them. I really think this is going to be one of the closest MVP votes we have seen in long time. There really is no clear cut choice. I will however vomit if Kobe wins it.

[alkemical]

i picked kobe because the lakers are suck -

but i like AI's game

[Boobs McGee]

I cant say I disagree with that.

Anthony is on his way to a great NBA career though. Next season will be the season that he takes the next step. Whenever Anthony starts demanding excellence from the lazy guys on the squad with skills (Martin, Patterson, Camby, etc), the Nuggets will be a real contender. Anthony is that good. He needs to be a little more assertive, IMO, with those guys for that team to take the next step. I also think that they need a new coach. A guy like Scott Skiles who can push buttons and force guys to play defense.

Anthony's year will come. It should be next year.

I have to disagree with a few points here.

How you can say Rueben Patterson is lazy is beyond me. That man is nothing but hustle. He FLIES after any loose ball, runs the court, and pushes continually.

Camby isn't lazy either, and it's hard to argue about his defense when he leads the league in blocks. I'll partially agree that he is "fragile", but I'd classify it more as "days where his pussy hurts" more than anything else.

The last thing we need right now is a new head coach. I'll let this little article do the talking:



George Karl
College - North Carolina


NBA coaching legend George Karl was introduced as the 19th head coach in Nuggets history on Jan. 27, 2005.

The 13th-winningest coach in NBA annals, Karl has amassed more than 700 wins in his 17 seasons in the NBA. In fact, of the 12 men ahead of him on the all-time wins list, only four: Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pat Riley and Jerry Sloan have a better winning percentage. On March 22, 2003, he recorded his 700th career win in just 1,195 games. Only five coaches (Jackson, Riley, Auerbach, Sloan and Don Nelson) reached 700 wins in fewer games.

Karl has not posted a losing record in 12-straight seasons. His teams have captured five division titles and have qualified for the playoffs 13 times. He has led three teams to the conference finals, including the 1996 Seattle SuperSonics, who lost in six games to the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals.

Prior to joining the Nuggets, Karl served as head coach for the Milwaukee Bucks (1998-03), the SuperSonics (1991-98), the Golden State Warriors (1986-88) and the Cleveland Cavaliers (1984-86), compiling an overall record of 708-499 (.587).

Karl has a well-earned reputation for quickly turning teams around. In his first year in Cleveland, he led the Cavaliers to a 12-game improvement over the previous year and their first trip to the playoffs in seven years. In his first year at Golden State, the Warriors made a 12-game improvement and not only made the postseason for the first time in nine years, but advanced to the conference semifinals. In his debut in Seattle, he inherited a 20-20 club and guided them to a 27-15 record the rest of the year. In Milwaukee, the Bucks winning percentage improved from .439 to .560 in his first year (which was the lockout-shortened ’99-00 campaign) and they made the playoffs for the first time in seven seasons.

During Karl's tenure in Seattle, the Sonics averaged 59 wins per season and won more games (357) than any team in the league except the Bulls. He led the Sonics to three 60-win seasons, had just one losing month and never had a losing streak longer than three games. Only three coaches have led their teams to more 60-win seasons in NBA history: Pat Riley (seven), Phil Jackson (six) and K.C. Jones (four).

In five seasons in Milwaukee, Karl led the Bucks to a record of 205-173 and four playoff berths, highlighted in 2001 by the team's first trip to the conference finals since 1986.

Karl broke into coaching as an assistant with the San Antonio Spurs (ABA) under current Nuggets coaching consultant Doug Moe. He landed his first head coaching position with the Montana Golden Nuggets of the CBA in 1980 and went on to become one of the most successful coaches in that league’s history. A three-time CBA Coach of the Year (1981, ’83 and ’91), Karl compiled a 176-66 (.727) record in five CBA seasons. He led the Albany Patroons to a league record 50-6 mark in 1990-91, including a perfect 28-0 at home. He also coached two years in Spain for Real Madrid.

In 2001, Karl was selected as the head coach of USA Basketball's 2002 World Championship Team that competed in the 2002 FIBA World Basketball Championships in Indianapolis.

After coaching in Milwaukee, Karl served as an NBA analyst for ESPN.

As a player, Karl averaged 6.5 ppg and 3.0 apg over 264 games and five seasons with between the ABA and NBA. He attended the University of North Carolina, where, as a junior he helped lead the Tar Heels to the 1972 NCAA Final Four, and during his sophomore season (1970-71) helped UNC to an NIT title.

Although drafted by the New York Knicks in the fourth round of the 1973 Draft, he signed with the San Antonio Spurs of the ABA. He played five seasons, the final two in the NBA after the 1976 NBA/ABA merger.



CAREER COACHING
REGULAR SEASON POST SEASON
YEAR TEAM WINS LOSSES PCT WINS LOSSES PCT
1984 Cleveland 36 46 .439 1 3 .250
1985 Cleveland 25 42 .373 0 0 .000
1986 Golden State 42 40 .512 4 6 .400
1987 Golden State 16 48 .250 0 0 .000
1991 Seattle 27 15 .643 4 5 .444
1992 Seattle 55 27 .671 10 9 .526
1993 Seattle 63 19 .768 2 3 .400
1994 Seattle 57 25 .695 1 3 .250
1995 Seattle 64 18 .780 13 8 .619
1996 Seattle 57 25 .695 6 6 .500
1997 Seattle 61 21 .744 4 6 .400
1998 Milwaukee 28 22 .560 0 3 .000
1999 Milwaukee 42 40 .512 2 3 .400
2000 Milwaukee 52 30 .634 10 8 .556
2001 Milwaukee 41 41 .500 0 0 .000
2002 Milwaukee 42 40 .512 2 4 .333
2004 Denver 32 8 .800 1 4 .200
2005 Denver 44 34 .564 0 0 .000
TOTALS 784 541 .592 60 71 .458

Karl is the best pickup we've had (besides Meo) in the last 8 years. We actually look like a cohesive unit out there under his loose reign. He's the kind of coach that will get Denver a ring in the next couple of years.

I know this is an MVP thread, so I'll quicly transition to my last point.

Melo SHOULD have been in the race this year, his stats are top 10 in every category and he plays WELL beyond his years.
Next year I DEFINITELY think he'll be a frontrunner for the award, and wholeheartedly agree with you when you said next year he takes his big step. He's been playing very unselfish ball lately, and I think his vision will be complete once we get to the semi's this year.

[epicSocialism4tw]

George Karl is weak. Patterson is on-and-off, and plays with no focus.

[Boobs McGee]

George Karl is weak. Patterson is on-and-off, and plays with no focus.
Ha! Ha!

lemme repost this again in case you read over it
only four: Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pat Riley and Jerry Sloan have a better winning percentage.

and Patterson is on and off?

I'm seriously chalking this up to your inability to catch nuggets games out in tejas. Patterson is one of the most focused, balls to the wall players on the team right now. He is tenacious on both ends of the court

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ha! Ha!

lemme repost this again in case you read over it
only four: Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pat Riley and Jerry Sloan have a better winning percentage.

and Patterson is on and off?

I'm seriously chalking this up to your inability to catch nuggets games out in tejas. Patterson is one of the most focused, balls to the wall players on the team right now. He is tenacious on both ends of the court

Just wait until he settles in a bit and the Denver police show up at his house a couple of times. He loses focus pretty fast. There is a reason why the guy has played for nearly every team in the west.

Karl is weak. His teams are always overrated.

[Northman]

I would prefer Duncan but thats just a bias but i think Nash will win it and deservably so.

[Master___Pain]

Just wait until he settles in a bit and the Denver police show up at his house a couple of times. He loses focus pretty fast.

Well until that happens I am happy with the play he's displayed thus far. Considering what the Nuggs had to give up to get him and Evans, it's been a great deal.


There is a reason why the guy has played for nearly every team in the west.

Embelish much? 4 teams Llama, four out of 15.


Karl is weak. His teams are always overrated.

Meh, whatever. I am thrilled as a Nuggets fan with George as a coach. Maybe his act will wear thin but he has had a wonderful influence on Carmelo. And coincidence that Melo's play since Karl arrived had improved drastically? I don't think so.

Why are you so angry llama?

[Boobs McGee]

Just wait until he settles in a bit and the Denver police show up at his house a couple of times. He loses focus pretty fast. There is a reason why the guy has played for nearly every team in the west.

Karl is weak. His teams are always overrated.

I can definitely see him losing focus next year, but for now, he's producing.

As far as Karl goes, going 32 and 8 heading into the playoffs at the end of last year and Taking the Northwest Championship this year hardly qualifies as weak. Overrated? I'm not sure where the lack of respect is coming from on your part, but how can you call a coach overrated when he's turned 12 different LOSING teams around?

The Nuggets aren't even brought up when we talk about winning teams in the NBA, yet here we are with our best record in 15 years, and we're overrated?

Please show me his "overrated" teams

[Master___Pain]

The Nuggets aren't even brought up when we talk about winning teams in the NBA, yet here we are with our best record in 15 years, and we're overrated?



Eh, um, the Nuggs won 49 games last year. The best they can do this season is 48. :thumbsup:

Just a point of clarification.

[Boobs McGee]

Eh, um, the Nuggs won 49 games last year. The best they can do this season is 48. :thumbsup:

Just a point of clarification.

:(

I ****ing suck at reading stats.


bronconia = :clown:


what i MEANT was ;D under George Karl we've had the best TWO seasons in 15 years

[epicSocialism4tw]

Well until that happens I am happy with the play he's displayed thus far. Considering what the Nuggs had to give up to get him and Evans, it's been a great deal.
No question. I liked that deal too. The post wasnt about that though, it was about the focus and commitment of players. Patterson has traditionally been a distraction to his team. The track record is more extensive than probably any player in the league.


Embelish much? 4 teams Llama, four out of 15.
That was purposeful. A little sarcasm for ya.


Meh, whatever. I am thrilled as a Nuggets fan with George as a coach. Maybe his act will wear thin but he has had a wonderful influence on Carmelo. And coincidence that Melo's play since Karl arrived had improved drastically? I don't think so.

Carmelo Anthony has improved on his own. That's what happens when players get experience. They get better. Anthony wasnt going to come into the league hitting big shots and putting up 26 a game. He still has alot of room to improve. Especially in rebounding and dishing out assists.

[Boobs McGee]

No question. I liked that deal too. The post wasnt about that though, it was about the focus and commitment of players. Patterson has traditionally been a distraction to his team. The track record is more extensive than probably any player in the league.

actually, the post on patterson was about his efforts on our team since he's been here:

and Patterson is on and off?

I'm seriously chalking this up to your inability to catch nuggets games out in tejas. Patterson is one of the most focused, balls to the wall players on the team right now. He is tenacious on both ends of the court

[Master___Pain]

Carmelo Anthony has improved on his own. That's what happens when players get experience. They get better. Anthony wasnt going to come into the league hitting big shots and putting up 26 a game. He still has alot of room to improve. Especially in rebounding and dishing out assists.

So Karl has had no hand in improving Melo's play? And it got better when Karl got here last year too. I will grant you that Melo worked hard to get where he is, but Karl has been a vital part of his improvement.