Springing for Jackson(Chad) will be a leap of faith [Archive] - The Orange Mane

TheManeMan

04-07-2006, 01:13 PM

The draft story of Chad Jackson is a story of jumps. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=springingforjacksonwillb&prov=tsn&type=lgns)

Vertical jumps, broad jumps, jumps in draft stock, jumping to conclusions and, most likely, a leap of faith.

Even though the Florida receiver has improved his draft standing considerably since the end of the 2005 season, it will take a leap of faith for a team to take him in the first round, where he almost certainly will go.

This is what we know about Jackson: He can run fast. (He ran a 4.32 40 at the NFL Scouting Combine.) He has size. (He measured in at 6-0 7/8, 213.) He is explosive. (He had a 38 1/2-inch vertical jump and 10-2 broad jump.)

This is what we don't know about Jackson: why he didn't play as he tested.

Jackson didn't play poorly. As a junior in 2005, he tied the Florida school record for receptions in a season with 88. He showed excellent hands and the ability to catch balls away from his body. Many of those 88 catches came on passes across the middle, so you know he's tough.

But Jackson didn't make many big plays. He averaged 10.2 yards per catch. To put that in perspective, consider this: 580 college players had better averages last season, according to STATS Inc. In fact, even if Jackson had doubled his average per catch, 14 players would have had a better average.

So we know Jackson was no threat to go vertical. Whether that was a reflection of Jackson's ability or Urban Meyer's loose change offense is debatable. But it would seem fair to give Jackson some benefit of the doubt. Says one AFC general manager, "On the tape from his sophomore year (when he played in a different scheme), it was clear he could run. A coach on the old staff used the word explosive to describe him." In 2004, Jackson averaged 22.3 yards per catch, third best in the country. But he caught only 29 passes, not enough for NFL scouts to feel completely confident in his abilities.

Should we jump to the conclusion that Jackson was a prisoner of his offense? Well, if he was, he didn't have cellmates. Meyer has been a head coach for five years -- one at Florida, two at Utah and two at Bowling Green. He has coached 18 receivers who caught 25 passes or more in a season over those five years. Of those 18 players, Jackson's average per catch was the worst. Four Gators teammates averaged more than 13 yards per catch in 2005. Steve Savoy, who went to camp with the Lions last year as an undrafted free agent but didn't make the team, averaged 16.6 yards per catch in Meyer's offense at Utah in 2003.

Although Meyer's offense did not provide many downfield opportunities for Jackson, it's clear the offense wasn't the only factor in his low average. Jackson could have done more once the ball was in his hands. You could add up all of Jackson's yards after the catch and still not have enough to constitute a proper dog walk. "He's not a run-away-from-you guy or a make-you-miss guy," says one AFC director of college scouting.

Jackson did not play fast in 2005. The elements of suddenness were missing from his game. Consequently, his route running was substandard. He rounded off corners and failed to separate. Even at the Combine, where he wasn't running routes designed by Meyer, Jackson's route running was mediocre. "He didn't drop his weight easily, and he looked uncomfortable and tight in his hips," the scouting director says. "He's not special as a route runner."

If you were charitable, or trying to justify your interest, you'd say Jackson is a raw route runner. And you wouldn't be stretching the truth. He's an inexperienced player who is likely to improve.

With the right coaching, and in the right system, only imagination can limit a player with Jackson's measurables.

But first-round picks, especially high ones, need to be used on players who have proved they can do the job. If it were my first-round pick, I'd let someone else take that chance. Nobody thinks a leap of faith will be a jump off a cliff when they take the first step.

Senior writer Dan Pompei covers the NFL for Sporting News. E-mail him at

SouthStndJunkie

04-07-2006, 01:15 PM

I would pass on Chad Jackson as well.

ludo21

04-07-2006, 01:15 PM

I really hope we pass on a WR in the first.

We can get equal if not better WR's later in the draft. (Hagan, Haas, STovall)

Rascal

04-07-2006, 01:20 PM

I really hope we pass on a WR in the first.

We can get equal if not better WR's later in the draft. (Hagan, Haas, STovall)

Word.

DBroncos4life

04-07-2006, 01:24 PM

I really hope we pass on a WR in the first.

We can get equal if not better WR's later in the draft. (Hagan, Haas, STovall)
after looking at the modern history of the draft I would say you are wrong.

KipCorrington25

04-07-2006, 01:27 PM

This guy has Ricky Nattiel written all over... pass.

Requiem

04-07-2006, 01:28 PM

He played under Zook and Meyer. Different coaches, different styles. That's probably why his performance fluctuated as a player. /end argument.

Rascal

04-07-2006, 01:28 PM

after looking at the modern history of the draft I would say you are wrong.

There are probably only going to be two WR's taken in the first round this year (Jackson and Holmes) and looking at history it is apparent that the #1 taken each year in the draft does not do very well (ie a bust).

ludo21

04-07-2006, 01:29 PM

after looking at the modern history of the draft I would say you are wrong.

Id be willing to bet that 1 or both are going to bust. (holmes and jackson)

DBroncos4life

04-07-2006, 01:35 PM

Id be willing to bet that 1 or both are going to bust. (holmes and jackson)
why because experts feel that way or is it something you saw in watching them play? I think that Moss, Holmes and Jackson will do very well in the NFL. It might not be Jerry Rice good but I think they will hold there own.

ludo21

04-07-2006, 01:38 PM

why because experts feel that way or is it something you saw in watching them play? I think that Moss, Holmes and Jackson will do very well in the NFL. It might not be Jerry Rice good but I think they will hold there own.

I just dont see them doing well. Sometimes i get these odd feelings on players (sometimes right, mostly wrong ;D ) But ill stand by what i said.

C Jack did show good hands in the all star comp tho, ill give him that.

Jens1893

04-07-2006, 01:38 PM

Requiem

04-07-2006, 01:39 PM

There are probably only going to be two WR's taken in the first round this year (Jackson and Holmes) and looking at history it is apparent that the #1 taken each year in the draft does not do very well (ie a bust).

Which probably has more to do with the situation the player is in, (often going to poor teams) rather than the type of player he is.

Requiem

04-07-2006, 01:40 PM

Holmes is the one I feel best about. Jackson has that UF thing working against him.

This isn't a Spurrier wide receiver, so the whole pedigree of the "Florida Bust Theory" is a little bit iffy in my opinion.

watermock

04-07-2006, 01:42 PM

I seem to remember a certain WR that was a can't miss 4 years ago.

DBroncos4life

04-07-2006, 01:47 PM

I seem to remember a certain WR that was a can't miss 4 years ago.
I don't remember anyone calling a WR a can't miss player.

Jackson has great hands, speed that you look for, work ethic, and attitude that you would want as well. People keep saying its his speed that is making him move up the draft board but I believe its the fact that he interviewed so well. That means more to me then a 40 time.

watermock

04-07-2006, 01:59 PM

So what make you think Jackson would have more of an impact when his TPC is 10 and Lelie 20? Plus he played for Florida. Lelie played for Hawaii...get the connection?

Requiem

04-07-2006, 02:11 PM

So what make you think Jackson would have more of an impact when his TPC is 10 and Lelie 20? Plus he played for Florida. Lelie played for Hawaii...get the connection?

Jackson is more physical and can get a lot more yards after the catch than Lelie can.

Rascal

04-07-2006, 02:12 PM

Jackson is more physical and can get a lot more yards after the catch than Lelie can.

Then explain why his YAC was not overly impressive either?

Atlas

04-07-2006, 02:19 PM

I don't remember anyone calling a WR a can't miss player.

Jackson has great hands, speed that you look for, work ethic, and attitude that you would want as well. People keep saying its his speed that is making him move up the draft board but I believe its the fact that he interviewed so well. That means more to me then a 40 time.

That's the part I like when I read about Jackson. Everyone says he has great hands. Shanny and Dinger can teach him to run better routes but if you can't catch you can't catch.

Requiem

04-07-2006, 02:22 PM

Then explain why his YAC was not overly impressive either?

Like I've said many times, Urban Meyer's offense. Look at more than just the statistics, if you've seen Jackson play, he shows a lot of promise and ability when after the catch.

Mediator12

04-07-2006, 02:52 PM

That's the part I like when I read about Jackson. Everyone says he has great hands. Shanny and Dinger can teach him to run better routes but if you can't catch you can't catch.

I strongly disagree. Even Jerry Rice admitted he struggled to catch the ball his first two years in the league. Catching can be improved, but again it is more mental than physical anyway.

brother love

04-07-2006, 02:55 PM

Doesn't look that bad to me.
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=stathead align=middle bgColor=#2a42ce><TD align=left colSpan=3>2005 Game Log</TD><TD colSpan=5>Receiving</TD><TD colSpan=5>Rushing</TD><TD colSpan=2>Fumbles</TD></TR></TR><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left>DATE</TD><TD align=left>OPP</TD><TD align=left>RESULT </TD><TD>REC</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>AVG</TD><TD>LNG</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>ATT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>AVG</TD><TD>LNG</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>FUM</TD><TD>LST</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>9/3</TD><TD class="" align=left>Wyoming (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2751)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 32-14 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252460057) </TD><TD class="">10</TD><TD class="">138</TD><TD class="">13.8</TD><TD class="">26</TD><TD class="">3</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">5</TD><TD class="">5.0</TD><TD class="">5</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD class=hi align=left>9/10</TD><TD class=hi align=left>Louisiana Tech (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2348)</TD><TD class=hi align=left>W 41-3 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252530057) </TD><TD class=hi>5</TD><TD class=hi>105</TD><TD class=hi>21.0</TD><TD class=hi>80</TD><TD class=hi>1</TD><TD class=hi>1</TD><TD class=hi>16</TD><TD class=hi>16.0</TD><TD class=hi>16</TD><TD class=hi>0</TD><TD class=hi>0</TD><TD class=hi>0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>9/17</TD><TD class="" align=left>Tennessee (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2633)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 16-7 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252600057) </TD><TD class="">8</TD><TD class="">53</TD><TD class="">6.6</TD><TD class="">19</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0.0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>9/24</TD><TD class="" align=left>@Kentucky (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=96)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 49-28 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252670096) </TD><TD class="">9</TD><TD class="">105</TD><TD class="">11.7</TD><TD class="">36</TD><TD class="">2</TD><TD class="">3</TD><TD class="">16</TD><TD class="">5.3</TD><TD class="">16</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>10/1</TD><TD class="" align=left>@Alabama (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=333)</TD><TD class="" align=left>L 31-3 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252740333) </TD><TD class="">8</TD><TD class="">50</TD><TD class="">6.3</TD><TD class="">15</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">3</TD><TD class="">13</TD><TD class="">4.3</TD><TD class="">12</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>10/8</TD><TD class="" align=left>Mississippi St. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=344)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 35-9 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252810057) </TD><TD class="">7</TD><TD class="">78</TD><TD class="">11.1</TD><TD class="">18</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">4</TD><TD class="">28</TD><TD class="">7.0</TD><TD class="">16</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>10/15</TD><TD class="" align=left>@LSU (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=99)</TD><TD class="" align=left>L 21-17 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=252880099) </TD><TD class="">5</TD><TD class="">29</TD><TD class="">5.8</TD><TD class="">20</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0.0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>10/29</TD><TD class="" align=left>Georgia (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=61)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 14-10 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253010057) </TD><TD class="">3</TD><TD class="">21</TD><TD class="">7.0</TD><TD class="">21</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">-2</TD><TD class="">-2.0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>11/5</TD><TD class="" align=left>Vanderbilt (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=238)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 49-42 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253090057) </TD><TD class="">8</TD><TD class="">53</TD><TD class="">6.6</TD><TD class="">11</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">2</TD><TD class="">11</TD><TD class="">5.5</TD><TD class="">9</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>11/12</TD><TD class="" align=left>@South Carolina (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2579)</TD><TD class="" align=left>L 30-22 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253162579) </TD><TD class="">10</TD><TD class="">104</TD><TD class="">10.4</TD><TD class="">31</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0.0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>11/26</TD><TD class="" align=left>Florida State (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=52)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 34-7 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253300057) </TD><TD class="">9</TD><TD class="">97</TD><TD class="">10.8</TD><TD class="">29</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0.0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD class="" align=left>Outback Bowl</TD><TD class="" align=left>Iowa (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2294)</TD><TD class="" align=left>W 31-24 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=260020057) </TD><TD class="">7</TD><TD class="">76</TD><TD class="">10.9</TD><TD class="">22</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">1</TD><TD class="">2</TD><TD class="">2.0</TD><TD class="">2</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD><TD class="">0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Especially the good output against Florida State.

meangene

04-07-2006, 04:43 PM

Out of the 1st Round possibilities at WR (Jackson, Holmes, Moss) I would take Moss over the other two. His explosiveness will translate to the NFL level. He is small and there are questions about his fit in the Denver system but, with guys like Steve Smith and Santana Moss performing like they are, I'm less concerned about that than in the past. The rules changes have really helped out the smaller receivers.

16slayer24

04-07-2006, 05:02 PM

we ahvent had much luck with first round WR in the past i like defensive depth devoe showed promise lelie can be explosive and watta could be exceptional who knows i just scare d of a 1st round wr

16slayer24

04-07-2006, 05:08 PM

im a bit prejudiced but javon bouknight out of WYO could be a great late roun pick hes feerless and made huge plays especially on 3rd downs and he finds the endzone

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 05:58 PM

1/4/04

The Slide Heard Round Gator Nation

Sorry if this column is no good. It's Jack Daniel's fault.

If anybody still questioned whether the University of Florida was ready to compete with the Miami's of the world, Friday night's game gave them the answer. Not even close.

Miami showed more speed, skill, and toughness than Florida in their 27-10 Peach Bowl defeat. Players like Miami's Devin Hester ran circles around the Gators all night. The skill gap was apparent throughout the rosters. But the most telling aspect about the two teams was the huge difference in toughness. One play stood out above the others. UF receiver Chad Jackson took a third down pass from Chris Leak, gets by the cornerback with a nifty move, and had a wide field in front of him. What does he do? He slides feet first a full 5 yards before the safety has a chance to hit him. Somewhere Todd Pinkston was smiling.
Leak looked confused and shaky all night. The O-line had trouble with Miami's speed, and they didn't open any holes for RB Ciatrick Fason. The WR's didn’t get separation, and for the most part were intimidated by that team from down south. The defense played very well, holding the Canes to 50 yards total in the first half. They did about as well as could be expected of them. The special teams' effort wasn't good enough for the Special Olympics. It all added up to the worst overall performance mailed in by the UF football team since the Mississippi State game back in October.

Up next for Gator Nation is Urban Meyer. As good of a coach as he is proposed to be, this wont be a sudden turn around from a 7-5 team to the national prominence they enjoyed in the 90's. There are quite a few questions that need to be addressed first. One, can Chris Leak run the attack option offense that Meyer employs? He has shown that he can deliver the ball well while moving, but is he athletic enough? Second, we need linebackers. Badly. With Channing Crowder all but cashing in his first NFL paycheck, and Travis Harris graduating, UF will need to replenish at the position. Third, we obviously need to get tougher and more focused. This is where I think Meyer can help right away. He is a strict disciplinarian, unlike his predecessor, the lax Zook.

Despite all the problems, this will be the most anticipated pre-season in 15 years in Gainesville. Spring practice starts in only a few months. I cant wait.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/floridacolumn.htm

BroncoBuff

04-07-2006, 06:05 PM

He played under Zook and Meyer. Different coaches, different styles. That's probably why his performance fluctuated as a player. /end argument.
Exactly. I've read in a couppla places that his 10.2 apc as a senior - 5 yards less thatn his junior avg - was entirely based on Urban Meyers' new offensive scheme.

That said, I like Kircus and Terrell .... we need a TE MUCH more than WR ... pass!

TheManeMan

04-07-2006, 06:13 PM

One play stood out above the others. UF receiver Chad Jackson took a third down pass from Chris Leak, gets by the cornerback with a nifty move, and had a wide field in front of him. What does he do? He slides feet first a full 5 yards before the safety has a chance to hit him. Somewhere Todd Pinkston was smiling.

I dont the 1st rounder wasted on a pussy like this!!

maven

04-07-2006, 06:23 PM

I've always thought the entire draft, year over year, is a leap of faith. It's a gamble you hope that pays off.

DBroncos4life

04-07-2006, 07:21 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SgnHM0SRqr0&search=chad%20jackson

Requiem

04-07-2006, 07:26 PM

Heh, if you're going to judge Chad Jackson on one play SoCal, that's sad. If you watched other games, (I'm sure you have) he's shown toughness and determination and willingly goes into the middle.

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 07:49 PM

Heh, if you're going to judge Chad Jackson on one play SoCal, that's sad. If you watched other games, (I'm sure you have) he's shown toughness and determination and willingly goes into the middle.

Its hard to forget things like that primarily because you rarely if ever see people slide 5 yds before the defender. As Ive said on another thread recently, I will give him a clean slate if he becomes a Bronco. He's got alot of talent so he could help us, although he hasnt been as productive as I think he should be. It was said his YPC dropped because of Meyer's offense.

Actually I think his YPC should have gone UP in Meyer's offense. While he wouldnt get the ball as often (Meyer has said in many clinic articles that he likes to spread to run and that ideally his system should provide a 65-35 run/pass ratio) the times he gets the ball it should be a big play, since on 1st and 2nd down and 3rd down with less than 6 to go, they AUTOMATICALLY check to passes when outnumbered by more than 1 defender in the Box. Meyer's system provides alot of big play potential for WRs, when its a pass play, its almost always a 1 on 1 matchup with no safety help on or past the hash. So I would expect if he were excelling his YPC would be very high.

By contrast, Zook's offense, despite also being a shotgun spread offense was a short passing offense. As you recall, his OC was former Marshall OC Ed Zaunbrecher. That offense involves alot of short to intermediate passes from what ive looked at and not as much big play potential (albeit more overall passes).

So in addition to the infamous slide, there are some productivity questions and other issues. Like I said, ill give him a clean slate if he comes aboard because he does have a good deal of ability, I just dont think he is worthy of a 1st round pick (nor is any other WR in this draft to be fair)

-Slap-

04-07-2006, 08:37 PM

Its hard to forget things like that primarily because you rarely if ever see people slide 5 yds before the defender. As Ive said on another thread recently, I will give him a clean slate if he becomes a Bronco. He's got alot of talent so he could help us, although he hasnt been as productive as I think he should be. It was said his YPC dropped because of Meyer's offense.

Did you actually witness the play in question, or are you just going off the account of a writer who freely admits that Jack might have been talking when he wrote that?

Sorry if this column is no good. It's Jack Daniel's fault.

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 08:39 PM

Did you actually witness the play in question, or are you just going off the account of a writer who freely admits that Jack might have been talking when he wrote that?

I watched that game myself.

I just wanted to find a reference to it on the Internet because people have been brushing it off when Breck and I have mentioned it.

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 08:44 PM

Here is another reference, Slappy.

From the Gainesville Sun.

Im not making this stuff up just because he is a Gator.

http://www.gatorcountry.org/wearetheboys/?p=53

Gainesville Sun columnist Pat Dooley saw what we all did: Lots and lots of sliding.

“[I]t was early in the second quarter when Miami had to know it owned Florida. Florida was deep in Hurricane territory but faced a third down. Receiver Chad Jackson took a short pass, made a nifty move around a defender and with eight yards still to cover to get the first down slid to the ground.

“He slid.

“On the checklist for the new coach, you could almost hear ‘Get tougher’ being marked in red pen.

“Along with ‘Get smarter.’”

-Slap-

04-07-2006, 08:52 PM

I've never liked drafting WRs in the first round. My first choice @ 15 is Jimmy Williams. He would be the super athletic cover safety we've been craving for years.

Clockwork Orange

04-07-2006, 09:08 PM

If Jackson is the BPA at 15, I'd be fine with him being selected. I don't think it'll come to that though. I'm betting that Philly will grab him at 14 after losing out on Eric Moulds.

My first choice is to move up to #6 and get Vernon Davis (I actually agree with mock on something, which means that Satan must be wearing a winter coat). If we stay at #15, I'm still driving the LenDale White bandwagon (though it's become a lot more roomy on board these days ;D).

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 09:24 PM

If we stay at #15, I'm still driving the LenDale White bandwagon (though it's become a lot more roomy on board these days ;D).

Im also still on that bandwagon.

Ray Finkle

04-07-2006, 09:29 PM

Im also still on that bandwagon.

I would rather have DW2 and a DE in the first...

TheManeMan

04-07-2006, 09:32 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SgnHM0SRqr0&search=chad%20jackson

Wow...not only are his arms huge...but, they are long as hell...nice clip DB...

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 09:46 PM

I would rather have DW2 and a DE in the first...

Id be happy with DW2 also he has good vision, shiftyness and can run inside as well as outside, but I just like White more.

-Slap-

04-07-2006, 10:00 PM

I would like this kind of scenario. Draft Jimmy Williams with 1A. Then take the best available DE with 1B. In round two, we can go RB, WR or TE, whichever is the best value. Keep addressing offense in round four. Get some more linemen to fill out the end of day two.

Ray Finkle

04-07-2006, 10:03 PM

Id be happy with DW2 also he has good vision, shiftyness and can run inside as well as outside, but I just like White more.

Hey SoCal,
don't you worry about White's work ethic/conditioning? What do you think of Maroney at RB?

SoCalBronco

04-07-2006, 10:41 PM

Hey SoCal,
don't you worry about White's work ethic/conditioning? What do you think of Maroney at RB?

The weight issue im not too worried about for the following reasons:

a) Lendale was apparently 6 pounds heavier in the Rose Bowl than what he weighed in recently when everyone seemed to be in agreement that he was "flabby and overweight". Even if his physical appearance was problematic, the weight apparently doesnt translate into a problem in game situations. Keep in mind, he ripped off some 15+ runs in the Rose Bowl (If I recall correctly, one of his TD runs late in the game was like 20+ yds), so the speed is there even with the weight.

b) Weight and Work Ethic- Even if he has a weight issue, the Broncos offseason training program, especially with Tuten and his sled on his ass, will get him to where the Broncos want him weight wise which is I think around 230, given that is what they told MoC to get down to last year. One could say, what about his coaches at USC, dont you think they got on his ass everyday...that didnt seem to help. One thing people are forgetting is the 20 hour rule: The NCAA mandates that players and coaches can only have 20 hours of contact per week. There is ofcourse, no limitations like that one in pro football, so the coaches can literally be around him the whole day everyday giving him tasks and such.

I dont mean to downplay his work ethic. I just wanted to point some things out. Work ethic is a valid concern (and he admitted as much on NFL Total Access I think, a few days ago according to Hulamau). Ive read that at USC his work ethic wasnt stellar, although not terrible either. This obviously isnt a positive, but perhaps he will have a chip on his shoulder since everyone has been dogging him on it. Additionally, even with a mediocre work ethic, he accomplished a great deal. When we look at Lendale White, what we want is what we saw on Saturdays the last few years. His work ethic cannot be that bad if he was able to garner all those achievements: back to back 1,000 yd. seasons, USC all time TD leader etc. You just cant do all those things if you dont put forth a level of at least sufficient work. He might be lazy and overweight a little, but I dont think he is bad seed. I dont think he is like MoC or anything (although I admit, I didnt think MoC was a bad guy either,...still I just dont see that kind of thing with White, no one has complained about him being a cancer, or teammates hating him etc. its just been weight and things related to that mainly).

Ray Finkle

04-07-2006, 10:47 PM

The weight issue im not too worried about for the following reasons:

a) Lendale was apparently 6 pounds heavier in the Rose Bowl than what he weighed in recently when everyone seemed to be in agreement that he was "flabby and overweight". Even if his physical appearance was problematic, the weight apparently doesnt translate into a problem in game situations. Keep in mind, he ripped off some 15+ runs in the Rose Bowl (If I recall correctly, one of his TD runs late in the game was like 20+ yds), so the speed is there even with the weight.

b) Weight and Work Ethic- Even if he has a weight issue, the Broncos offseason training program, especially with Tuten and his sled on his ass, will get him to where the Broncos want him weight wise which is I think around 230, given that is what they told MoC to get down to last year. One could say, what about his coaches at USC, dont you think they got on his ass everyday...that didnt seem to help. One thing people are forgetting is the 20 hour rule: The NCAA mandates that players and coaches can only have 20 hours of contact per week. There is ofcourse, no limitations like that one in pro football, so the coaches can literally be around him the whole day everyday giving him tasks and such.

I dont mean to downplay his work ethic. I just wanted to point some things out. Work ethic is a valid concern (and he admitted as much on NFL Total Access I think, a few days ago according to Hulamau). Ive read that at USC his work ethic wasnt stellar, although not terrible either. This obviously isnt a positive, but perhaps he will have a chip on his shoulder since everyone has been dogging him on it. Additionally, even with a mediocre work ethic, he accomplished a great deal. When we look at Lendale White, what we want is what we saw on Saturdays the last few years. His work ethic cannot be that bad if he was able to garner all those achievements: back to back 1,000 yd. seasons, USC all time TD leader etc. You just cant do all those things if you dont put forth a level of at least sufficient work. He might be lazy and overweight a little, but I dont think he is bad seed. I dont think he is like MoC or anything (although I admit, I didnt think MoC was a bad guy either,...still I just dont see that kind of thing with White, no one has complained about him being a cancer, or teammates hating him etc. its just been weight and things related to that mainly).

Valid points, it just makes me a little nervous. I still think they need to go DE with 15....

Kaylore

04-07-2006, 11:31 PM

I've never liked drafting WRs in the first round. My first choice @ 15 is Jimmy Williams. He would be the super athletic cover safety we've been craving for years.
I don't mind drafting a receiver in the first round, but not this draft. This class isn't quuite first round material in my opinion.

yavoon

04-08-2006, 01:14 AM

I've never liked drafting WRs in the first round. My first choice @ 15 is Jimmy Williams. He would be the super athletic cover safety we've been craving for years.

aren't the vast majority of good wr's from the first?

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 01:32 AM

aren't the vast majority of good wr's from the first?
yep very few ellite guys are ever taken outside the first. It does happen but as often as people think. But if we want a team full of Devoe's, Adams, or Kircus's then yeah lets wait tell later.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 08:12 AM

Yeah, guys like Hines Ward, Chad Johnson, Chris Chambers, Rod Smith, Steve Smith and Jimmy Smith (off the top of my head) aren't worth anything.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 08:15 AM

AFC WRs in last year's Pro Bowl:
Marvin Harrison* - ind
Rod Smith - den
Chad Johnson - cin
Chris Chambers - mia

*One first round pick.

Odysseus

04-08-2006, 09:42 AM

I've never liked drafting WRs in the first round. My first choice @ 15 is Jimmy Williams. He would be the super athletic cover safety we've been craving for years.

Why do you insist on pulling these really cool names out of nowhere? :D
This is a great idea. I cannot imagine this happening because it makes sense.
I want something on the DL but I would not be unhappy with a safety.

Very nice call on Vasher by the way.

First round pick WR SHOULD be rare as first round QBs. By the time the guy is any good in the Broncos offense he's ready to move on.

Nuggets4

04-08-2006, 09:51 AM

If we stay at #15, I'm still driving the LenDale White bandwagon (though it's become a lot more roomy on board these days ;D).

That's good because Lendale is taking up quite a bit more room on that bandwagon lately. ;)

I say we just draft the best player available at both slots. The only position we have that isn't a "concern" is LB, and I seriously doubt Hawk slides to 15.

watermock

04-08-2006, 09:56 AM

Pretty impressive obstacle run.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 10:45 AM

Why do you insist on pulling these really cool names out of nowhere? :D
This is a great idea. I cannot imagine this happening because it makes sense.
I want something on the DL but I would not be unhappy with a safety.

Very nice call on Vasher by the way.

First round pick WR SHOULD be rare as first round QBs. By the time the guy is any good in the Broncos offense he's ready to move on.
I never understood why Vasher dropped into the fourth round. The guy is just a playmaker.

I think Williams has the talent to have an Ed Reed/Troy Polomalu impact at the next level. He's not as sure a thing, because those guys were pure safeties and Williams might be a bit of a tweener, but I love his athletic ability, his versatility and his physical style of play.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 10:52 AM

AFC WRs in last year's Pro Bowl:
Marvin Harrison* - ind
Rod Smith - den
Chad Johnson - cin
Chris Chambers - mia

*One first round pick.

NFC WRs
Steve Smith*
Santana Moss
Larry Fitzgerald
Torry Holt

*one NON first round pick

Also Chad Johnson and Chambers where picked in the 2nd round so its not like they where awesome finds in the draft.

Of the NFLs top 15 WRs in receptions only 3 where picked outside of the first 3 rounds. Pretty sure only Steve Smith was in the third round so you could say that atleast the top 11 where picked in the first two rounds.

footstepsfrom#27

04-08-2006, 11:11 AM

Both Jackson and White have question marks about them that would preclude me taking them with one of our 1st round picks. Jackson sounds like this years Ashley Lelie...a speed guy who hasn't figured out the nuances of receiver yet. White picked up great yardage...behind probably the most talented offensive line in college football and with 2 Heisman winners to take the pressure off of him. How will he respond when he's the man? The two hardest workers on this team last year were Rod Smith and Sarge and if we're looking to draft their replacements...this doesn't seem the way to do it. What does White bring that Anderson did not other than youth? Nothing. Size, speed, style and ability are equivalent with MA having the Marine's work ethic that White does not. We have seen that this offense needs a bell cow who can get it done when it matters most and there's nobody else, and I don't think White has proven he can be that since he hasn't had to. The closest thing I see a workhorse back in this draft is Deangelo Williams and his history of injuries worries me. Maroney is a Tatum Bell clone so we don't really need him either. If we don't move up to get Vernon Davis, the smart thing to do IMO is to focus on the defensive line or safety. Broderick Bunkley or Jimmy Williams, if either fell to 15 would be a great pick...and Kiwi at 22 would be perfect.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 11:58 AM

NFC WRs
Steve Smith*
Santana Moss
Larry Fitzgerald
Torry Holt

*one NON first round pick

Also Chad Johnson and Chambers where picked in the 2nd round so its not like they where awesome finds in the draft.

Of the NFLs top 15 WRs in receptions only 3 where picked outside of the first 3 rounds. Pretty sure only Steve Smith was in the third round so you could say that atleast the top 11 where picked in the first two rounds.
If we could only draft a CB who could backpeddle like DBroncos4life.

I thought only the likes of Devoe, Adams and Kircus were available after round one.

Guys like Terrell Owens are never drafted in round three.

Hines Ward type WRs are always gone by round four.

Joe Horn would never make it to round five.

You'll never find a Donald Driver or David Givens in round seven.

Ray Finkle

04-08-2006, 12:09 PM

I never understood why Vasher dropped into the fourth round. The guy is just a playmaker.

I think Williams has the talent to have an Ed Reed/Troy Polomalu impact at the next level. He's not as sure a thing, because those guys were pure safeties and Williams might be a bit of a tweener, but I love his athletic ability, his versatility and his physical style of play.

He has bust written all over him. My brother in law is a Hokie alumni that never says anything bad about a Hokie (I don't count MV2) and talks about how over hyped Williams is. He worries about how he looks more then how he plays.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 12:25 PM

If we could only draft a CB who could backpeddle like DBroncos4life.

I thought only the likes of Devoe, Adams and Kircus were available after round one.

Guys like Terrell Owens are never drafted in round three.

Hines Ward type WRs are always gone by round four.

Joe Horn would never make it to round five.

You'll never find a Donald Driver or David Givens in round seven.
Driver was one of the three in the top ten outside of the third round. Givens? OMFG are you for real? If his 38 catches, 553 yards and 3 tds he avg's a year make you happy then he is a super star. Devoe, Adams, Kircus huh? Their combined 36 catches 411 yards and 2 tds should prove something too you. Sure Horn and Ward are good players but are they the norm? Hell no. Yes Owens was a third rounder but I wouldn't consider that a steal of a draft round. 11 of the top 15 WRs came from round one and you give me this crap. Awesome work cancer man.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 12:31 PM

He has bust written all over him. My brother in law is a Hokie alumni that never says anything bad about a Hokie (I don't count MV2) and talks about how over hyped Williams is. He worries about how he looks more then how he plays.
There are definitely questions about his personality. That's why he's not a lock as a top ten pick. I can live with an arrogant defensive back as long as he can play. They just have to convince him he's a safety and not a cornerback. I got this from a Patriot website:

Jimmy Williams, Virginia Tech – I actually like Williams as a player but the problem with him is his attitude and where to play him. Williams made a ton of big plays at Virginia Tech – returning a number of interceptions for touchdowns. He began his career with the Hokies as a safety but played his final two seasons at cornerback and that’s the position he wants to play in the NFL. Unfortunately for Williams, he’s a bit stiff at corner and probably better suited as a safety. He’s a big hitter – he knocked out six guys during his senior season – but he doesn’t have a great break on the ball as a corner. A lot of his interceptions came from tipped passes, the kind a safety would get. Very few times did Williams jump a route - like a Tye Hill or Richard Marshall - and take it to the house.

Williams’ attitude is also turning NFL teams off. He was reportedly uninterested at a lot of his interviews at the Combine and basically told teams he has no desire to play safety. That’s not really the kind of attitude NFL scouts are looking for from a guy who has yet to play a down in the pros. If he can get his head on straight, I think Williams can still be an asset to an NFL team. He’s exceptional at blocking kicks and he always seems to make big plays. However, Williams has to be willing to play safety because with his hard-hitting style and lack of quickness, that’s where he can succeed at the pro level.
Sounds to me like he was pretty productive. He knocked six guys out his senior year playing cornerback? Sounds like something you would read about Dick "Night Train" Lane. I'm intrigued by an athlete that's athletic enough to play corner, but mean enough to starch a half a dozen guys in one season.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 12:34 PM

Driver was one of the three in the top ten outside of the third round. Givens? OMFG are you for real? If his 38 catches, 553 yards and 3 tds he avg's a year make you happy then he is a super star. Devoe, Adams, Kircus huh? Their combined 36 catches 411 yards and 2 tds should prove something too you. Sure Horn and Ward are good players but are they the norm? Hell no. Yes Owens was a third rounder but I wouldn't consider that a steal of a draft round. 11 of the top 15 WRs came from round one and you give me this crap. Awesome work cancer man.
Must suck for you that I prove your punk ass wrong whenever the mood strikes me.

Why don't you check with me before you post anything from now on to avoid appearing like such a dumbass all the time?

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 12:36 PM

Must suck for you that I prove your punk ass wrong whenever the mood strikes me.

Why don't you check with me before you post anything from now on to avoid appearing like such a dumbass all the time?
yep you really owned me. :rofl:

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 12:37 PM

yep you really owned me. :rofl:
I don't own trash. I kick it out of my way and proceed about my business.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 12:41 PM

Im sure we could find a Holt, Harrison, Moss, or Fitzgerald type player if we wait till the 4th round. LOL

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 12:43 PM

Im sure we could find a Holt, Harrison, Moss, or Fitzgerald type player if we wait till the 4th round. LOL
You couldn't find your asshole with both hands and a funnel.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 12:45 PM

I don't own trash. I kick it out of my way and proceed about my business.
I figured you would recycle, during your off time from finding a cure for HIV.

yavoon

04-08-2006, 12:46 PM

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 12:50 PM

I figured you would recycle, during your off time from finding a cure for HIV.
HIV is never going away, stupid. There's no money in actually curing these diseases. I am educated about it, though. More than you and your boy Smeldick can say about that, or any other subject.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 12:51 PM

anecdotes do not a case make.
Look up the word anecdote, dumbass.

It is a fact that those players were selected after round two.

yavoon

04-08-2006, 12:56 PM

Look up the word anecdote, dumbass.

It is a fact that those players were selected after round two.

it is also a fact that most of the talent is high in the draft.

there are 64 players selected in rounds 1 and 2, and there are 480 players selected in rounds 3 through 7. given those numbers 11 of the top 15 wide receivers were selected in rounds 1 and 2.

73% of the receiving talent is selected in 28% of the draft. but u can continue to throw around names. the fact still and always has remained that most of the talent is high in the draft.

phisig150

04-08-2006, 01:08 PM

yavoon

04-08-2006, 01:10 PM

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 01:10 PM

thanks for the rep slap. :thumbsup:

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 01:23 PM

I was just curious slap since you seem to have agreat draft memory, How many WR busts have there been in the first round in the last decade. I'd say when you draft a WR in the first it's about 50-50 if he'll actually amount to anything
I agree with this 100%. The bust rate is high but the reward is often great for picking the right guy. Remember for every Rod Smith and Jimmy Smith there are atleast 10 or more Todd Devoe's. I never said its impossible to land a good WR outside of round 3 like slappyhappy is trying to imply I was only pointing out that only 1 Pro Bowl WR was taken outside of the third round. Also I was pointing out that a larger % of the top 15 WRs this year where infact first rounders. Think what you want to think but odds are you won't find a Holt, Harrison, or a Moss type player after the first two rounds.

phisig150

04-08-2006, 01:42 PM

ludo21

04-08-2006, 01:49 PM

Are you really sold on Jackson or do you just want us to address WR in the 1st whether it Holmes, Jackson, or Moss. I really really like Hagan. I think he'll be there in the third if we can trade into that round he would be a steal.

he dropped a few in the combine, but i watched MANY ASU games, and the guy impressed me a ton.

Id love him over any other WR in the draft as well.

phisig150

04-08-2006, 02:12 PM

Hagan is the opposite to Jackson he performs great in games not workouts. Even though he did have a decent 40 if i remeber correctly

Clockwork Orange

04-08-2006, 02:26 PM

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 02:29 PM

I was just curious slap since you seem to have agreat draft memory, How many WR busts have there been in the first round in the last decade. I'd say when you draft a WR in the first it's about 50-50 if he'll actually amount to anything
Here's the best reference site for draft history (http://www.drafthistory.com/).

These are the WRs picked in round one the last five years.

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Team College
2005 1 1 3 3 Braylon Edwards Browns Michigan
2 1 7 7 Troy Williamson Vikings South Carolina
3 1 10 10 Mike Williams Lions USC
4 1 21 21 Matt Jones Jaguars Arkansas
5 1 22 22 Mark Clayton Ravens Oklahoma
6 1 27 27 Roddy White Falcons Alabama-Birmingham
2004 1 1 3 3 Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals Pittsburgh
2 1 7 7 Roy Williams Lions Texas
3 1 9 9 Reggie Williams Jaguars Washington
4 1 13 13 Lee Evans Bills Wisconsin
5 1 15 15 Michael Clayton Buccaneers Louisiana State
6 1 29 29 Michael Jenkins Falcons Ohio State
7 1 31 31 Rashaun Woods 49ers Oklahoma State
2003 1 1 2 2 Charles Rogers Lions Michigan State
2 1 3 3 Andre Johnson Texans Miami (FL)
3 1 17 17 Bryant Johnson Cardinals Penn State
2002 1 1 13 13 Donte Stallworth Saints Tennessee
2 1 19 19 Ashley Lelie Broncos Hawaii
3 1 20 20 Javon Walker Packers Florida State
2001 1 1 8 8 David Terrell Bears Michigan
2 1 9 9 Koren Robinson Seahawks North Carolina State
3 1 15 15 Rod Gardner Redskins Clemson
4 1 16 16 Santana Moss Jets Miami (FL)
5 1 25 25 Freddie Mitchell Eagles UCLA
6 1 30 30 Reggie Wayne Colts Miami (FL)

Looks like a pretty mixed bag to me.

TheManeMan

04-08-2006, 02:29 PM

I'd take Hagan in the 2nd round if he's even there...he's the only WR i'd want Denver to take in the whole draft...

As for Jimmy Williams, I kinda dont see him being passed up by the Rams...

yavoon

04-08-2006, 02:29 PM

I read somewhere that Jimmy Williams doesn't want to play safety, that he wants to be a corner in the NFL. If he changes his mind about that, I wouldn't scream if the Broncos grabbed him at 15. We don't need a Soriano situation on our hands though.

anyone in their right mind would want to play corner over safety. its like triple the salary.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 02:33 PM

I read somewhere that Jimmy Williams doesn't want to play safety, that he wants to be a corner in the NFL. If he changes his mind about that, I wouldn't scream if the Broncos grabbed him at 15. We don't need a Soriano situation on our hands though.
Draft him and let him compete for the CB spot opposite Champ. if he can't win the job, I expect he'll be happy to see the field as a starting safety.

Clockwork Orange

04-08-2006, 02:42 PM

Draft him and let him compete for the CB spot opposite Champ. if he can't win the job, I expect he'll be happy to see the field as a starting safety.

His versatility is a plus. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have a guy who fill in at either spot if called upon. Our corners had their share of injury issues a year ago.

Still, I'd rather the coaching staff make it clear to him that the preference is for him to play safety and find out exactly where he is with that idea. If he simply prefers to play corner but is willing to do whatever is best for the team, go for it. But if he's dead set against playing safety and is going to pout and be disgruntled if told he's going to play there, I'll pass.

Hercules Rockefeller

04-08-2006, 02:45 PM

Looks like a pretty mixed bag to me.

Check rounds 2-7 and you'll see why teams continue to take WRs in the 1st.

Requiem

04-08-2006, 02:46 PM

Draft him and let him compete for the CB spot opposite Champ. if he can't win the job, I expect he'll be happy to see the field as a starting safety.

Whatever. We're not going to draft the kid. Foxworth and Williams will be battling that out. If we did draft him, it'd because we want him to play safety. He doesn't want to in the NFL, so in my mind -- he's not even a consideration.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 02:53 PM

Whatever. We're not going to draft the kid. Foxworth and Williams will be battling that out. If we did draft him, it'd because we want him to play safety. He doesn't want to in the NFL, so in my mind -- he's not even a consideration.
Fortunately, your mind isn't where this will be decided.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 02:57 PM

Yavoon, as he does periodically, got to the heart of the matter:

anyone in their right mind would want to play corner over safety. its like triple the salary.

If a top five talent drops to us at 15, we're out of our minds not to consider him. I think he's doing us a favor with all this talk.

Requiem

04-08-2006, 02:58 PM

Fortunately, your mind isn't where this will be decided.

Bite me. Why would we add another high pick to be a corner? You have to be lacking brain cells if you think a move on Williams is going to be made. The only way I could see us even taking the guy is if he's strictly a safety, which like I said -- he really doesn't want to play. I think Jimmy is a good player, but he's certainly not helping himself out when he states he wants to play corner, and doesn't even perform well at the combine to display the talents he has at that position.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 03:02 PM

Bite me. Why would we add another high pick to be a corner? You have to be lacking brain cells if you think a move on Williams is going to be made. The only way I could see us even taking the guy is if he's strictly a safety, which like I said -- he really doesn't want to play. I think Jimmy is a good player, but he's certainly not helping himself out when he states he wants to play corner, and doesn't even perform well at the combine to display the talents he has at that position.
Yeah, let the 22 year old dictate the way things are going to work. Brilliant. Glad the guys running our franchise have more balls than that.

Requiem

04-08-2006, 03:07 PM

That's not my point. Why would you draft a player who is going to be unhappy in the situation he's given? He wants to play corner, not safety. Stop kidding yourself, Jimmy Williams as a Denver Bronco is a pipe dream.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 03:09 PM

Requiem

04-08-2006, 03:13 PM

phisig150

04-08-2006, 03:15 PM

Saftey is becoming the new glamor position. Troy, Roy Williams, Ed Reed. With the way refs hancuff corners now he would be smart to shut up play safety

Requiem

04-08-2006, 03:17 PM

It could be a money issue. In a Cover 2 scheme, he can actually play it (corner). If he comes here, he would have to play safety, which he doesn't want to do. I've said this for the longest time and come draft day, he won't be a Bronco and more than likely -- he'll go to a team who uses the Cover 2, and you can take that to the bank.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 03:20 PM

Williams is falling down draft boards, I mean if you're on his balls so much (don't tug too hard, they could get even more blue!) I would have thought you would have paid some attention to his draft stock. At any case, his skill set is best for a Cover 2 defense, and the last time I checked -- we don't run one. You can put the crack pipe down now, it'll save you brain cells.
Ah, "put down the crack pipe" smack. Has that made it out to North Dakota already? I'm impressed.

A big corner like Williams might have actually dealt out some punishment while we had him playing ten yards off the wideouts last year, hillbilly boy.

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 03:23 PM

Anyway, I'm done with this one. These Draft Fags get very over stimulated when you don't bow down and kiss their asses after they regurgitate a bunch of draft analysts opinions your way.

Requiem

04-08-2006, 03:28 PM

Ah, "put down the crack pipe" smack. Has that made it out to North Dakota already? I'm impressed.

A big corner like Williams might have actually dealt out some punishment while we had him playing ten yards off the wideouts last year, hillbilly boy.

A big corner like Williams is the equivalent to Lenny Walls here in Denver. Why do you have such a boner for him anyways? Have you even seen him play, if so how much? If you have seen him play, you'd know his game style and you should be able to attest to the fact that his skill set and measurables translate into a Cover 2 scheme, and if you pay attention to the Broncos -- we don't run that here.

If you like Jimmy Williams so much, you may like Brandon Browner -- and he's already on our team.

Putting down the crack pipe wasn't an intended insult, it's the truth. I saw the picture of you and your beloved dawgie and it looks like you've been using it way too much. Also, just because I reside in North Dakota -- it doesn't mean I'm a "hillbilly" -- infact if you wanted to insult me and be adequate, metrosexual would be the correct term; but hey, I'd like that.

When it comes to Jimmy Williams, I know what I'm talking about. You can hang on his balls all you want, but anyone who has seen him play can attest to what I'm saying. You'd be kidding yourself if you thought I was wrong in my statements. They're true. Go to a draft site, ask a scout what system Jimmy Williams skill set transfers too and I guarentee most of the results will be Cover 2, especially if he's going to play corner.

That's a few swings and a misses by you, care to strike out?

Requiem

04-08-2006, 03:32 PM

Anyway, I'm done with this one. These Draft Fags get very over stimulated when you don't bow down and kiss their asses after they regurgitate a bunch of draft analysts opinions your way.

I use their opinions as back-up that I've formulated on my own. I question how often you've seen him play. Also, whose opinions are you even using, your own? Not too good with the latter. Way to concede an argument. Good job. "Draft Fags" -- I like that. You like Williams so much and claim he won't get past #15, so would you be included in this group -- or do you just partake in the necropheliasm with dogs club?

baja

04-08-2006, 03:36 PM

I use their opinions as back-up that I've formulated on my own. I question how often you've seen him play. Also, whose opinions are you even using, your own? Not too good with the latter. Way to concede an argument. Good job. "Draft Fags" -- I like that. You like Williams so much and claim he won't get past #15, so would you be included in this group -- or do you just partake in the necropheliasm with dogs club?

That's more than a little below the belt there Requiem.

phisig150

04-08-2006, 03:42 PM

No need to bring the pooch into this. I'm hoping Bunkley or Ngota falls to us.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 03:45 PM

That's more than a little below the belt there Requiem.
seems perfectly on par with something that involves slap.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 03:46 PM

according to many Jimmy Williams interviewed piss poor. If his attitude is that bad I don't want him around any of our younger DBs.

Requiem

04-08-2006, 03:49 PM

I'll dish back what's been dished to me, and yes -- Jimmy has interviewed piss poor, which is just another reason I don't want him on our team.

Nuggets4

04-08-2006, 04:08 PM

or do you just partake in the necropheliasm with dogs club?

Wow. Pathetic.

seems perfectly on par with something that involves slap.

You're even more pathetic. You don't even have the balls to stand up to slap, you just wait for someone else to do it and then act like their lap dog.

DBroncos4life

04-08-2006, 04:36 PM

Wow. Pathetic.

You're even more pathetic. You don't even have the balls to stand up to slap, you just wait for someone else to do it and then act like their lap dog.
I went to the park with my son then Im grilling steaks for super, ask slap. I don't see any reason to stand up to him when he really isn't doing anything to hurt me (its clear that my point is right) and when I left and he went after someone else. Slap is bad ass though. But it is nice to see you come in and defend him again. Just like last time. :rofl:

Now Im going to do things with my son some more so please don't take me not responding to this as leaving for someone else to fight. HA!

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 05:12 PM

I'll dish back what's been dished to me, and yes -- Jimmy has interviewed piss poor, which is just another reason I don't want him on our team.
Actually, you can go back to post #86 where you start acting like petulant child as the point where the discussion deteriorated.

Certainly not the first time I've had one of the children on this board taunt me about death. I'm sure Taco will lecture me about it again, though.

Bottom line is you're a just weak kneed individual who would let some 22 year prospective job applicant tell you how things are run in your own industry. Maybe some day you'll learn how to carry yourself like a man, but I doubt it.

There's nothing wrong with a defensive back who's confident enough in his abilities that he wants to go head up against the best wideouts in the League every week. Any team that marks him down for having a cocky attitude has their heads up their asses. Ever seen a meek defensive back who made a name for himself in the NFL?

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 05:15 PM

You're even more pathetic. You don't even have the balls to stand up to slap, you just wait for someone else to do it and then act like their lap dog.
My mistake with DBroncos4Life was giving him credit for having some modicum of intelligence.

I didn't realize the tiny increment I allotted would be such a huge overestimation.

Requiem

04-08-2006, 07:41 PM

Actually, you can go back to post #86 where you start acting like petulant child as the point where the discussion deteriorated.

Certainly not the first time I've had one of the children on this board taunt me about death. I'm sure Taco will lecture me about it again, though.

Bottom line is you're a just weak kneed individual who would let some 22 year prospective job applicant tell you how things are run in your own industry. Maybe some day you'll learn how to carry yourself like a man, but I doubt it.

There's nothing wrong with a defensive back who's confident enough in his abilities that he wants to go head up against the best wideouts in the League every week. Any team that marks him down for having a cocky attitude has their heads up their asses. Ever seen a meek defensive back who made a name for himself in the NFL?

Pot meet Kettle?

You want Williams why? He wants to play corner, we have three who are playing at a very high level right now. Like I said, have you even seen him play, or are you just touting him because of the things you've read?

Like I said, ignoring your insults -- you've proven nothing here. I've actually brought facts into this argument, and it's a fact that Jimmy Williams is a best fit corner in the Cover 2 scheme. He's pretty similar to Brandon Browner, so why not give that kid a chance first instead of drafting a guy that high when A) we have bigger needs and B) Williams wouldn't start for us...?

Can you even give a good reason why we should draft him? Honestly, you suggested corner, and I laughed.

phisig150

04-08-2006, 07:55 PM

Can we get this thread back on track. The important thing is Jackson is too high at 15 nice maybe in the 2nd. I don't really know anything about you slap but if that's your dog that passed and they're giving you **** about it that's cold blooded. I don't want to sound like a bitch but can we leave family and mans best friend out of the smack talking. Now if it was a cat that died i think that's boderline fairgame but dogs are loyal sidekicks. No neeed to get personal. Williams if he will play safety would be huge for us. I know a lot of people say he has top 5 talent. I think one of those dt's will drop to us and I rather pick one of them because I think this draft is deep in S. I like Whitner, Blue, or Bullocks

-Slap-

04-08-2006, 08:19 PM

Pot meet Kettle?

You want Williams why? He wants to play corner, we have three who are playing at a very high level right now. Like I said, have you even seen him play, or are you just touting him because of the things you've read?

Like I said, ignoring your insults -- you've proven nothing here. I've actually brought facts into this argument, and it's a fact that Jimmy Williams is a best fit corner in the Cover 2 scheme. He's pretty similar to Brandon Browner, so why not give that kid a chance first instead of drafting a guy that high when A) we have bigger needs and B) Williams wouldn't start for us...?

Can you even give a good reason why we should draft him? Honestly, you suggested corner, and I laughed.

Let's examine some of the facts you're bringing to the table. Jimmy Williams clocked his 40s at 4.41 and 4.46 at his pro day workout, while Brandon Browner clocked something like a 4.8.

I never actually endorsed Williams at cornerback. Go back for the last few weeks and I've been consistently touting his ability to play safety. A position he's played in the past and the position he truly projects best at in the pros.

I did say in this thread that I would draft this kid and tell him he would get a shot in training camp to displace DWill or Foxworth at cornerback. If he can't do that, he's going to start taking reps at safety. I think it would be interesting to see how he responds to the challenge. It would also be nice to have another quality athlete on the roster who could slide over and play some CB if we take multiple injuries at that position.

His size/speed ratio compares favorably to Ed Reed. He's even got a knack for blocking kicks like Reed. like I said, I don't mark off points for brashness in a defensive back. I don't mark off points for knockouts, either.

What's the point of having all that athletic ability at cornerback if the safeties are as athletic as a couple guys playing basketball at the local Y while wearing wristwatches and black socks?

I never even said we have to draft this kid. I said he's the player I wanted. You decided your status as junior draftnik entitles you to be dismissive about anybody who's stock happens to be falling at that particular moment in time.