Denver RTD strike

[Old Dude]

c*********s

This is gonna go on for awhile, I'm afraid...

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/US/04/03/denver.transit.ap/story.transit.ap.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/03/denver.transit.ap/

[RhymesayersDU]

No lightrail. This means paying for parking at Nuggets games. No bueno.

[Garcia Bronco]

Strike? Fire them

[Old Dude]

Just in time for the Rockies opening day. Downtown will be a nightmare of traffic jams.

[Old Dude]

I don't really have any opinions one way or the other about labor vs. management in this situation, but with the union reps approving the contract and 45% of the drivers voting for it, and rising gas prices, management isn't going to budge.

Meanwhile, the 55% of the employees who voted to strike seem ready to settle down to a long term fight.

[Tredici]

Just in time for the Rockies opening day. Downtown will be a nightmare of traffic jams.

Took me an extra 45 to get to work today. And just an 8 mile stretch accounted for that. Then the parking garage I pay a monthly fee to was full.


Arrrggghhh. Life is complicated enough.

[Old Dude]

Parking in downtown Denver already verges on highway robbery. Not to mention the times I've had my car nailed by hit & run drivers. I think I've figured out a series of transfers that will do the job, but it will add almost 90 minutes a day to my travel time.

When RTD says they have 45% of the routes up and running, that's misleading. Most of the 45% in question are the shorter in-city routes. Almost all the regional service has been cancelled.

Who I feel sorriest for are working single parents who have to juggle all of this with day care drop-offs and pick-ups.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

So they go on strike and RTD says they are keeping 45% of routes running, but the routes they are keeping going are not the heavily used routes - light rail, express routes and commuter routes. Bet those routes comprise 90% of ridership.

[broncosteven]

You guys should be lucky you don't have to deal with the Chicago Dan Ryan Reconstruction. I know you have TRex for a few years but the Ryan runs through the heart of the City & is like shutting down 25 to 1 lane from University to I-70.

They say it will take 2 years but who knows, in the end they will only be adding depth to the concrete, they are not really adding many new lanes! At least there should be no more Pot holes you can literally drive a truck into!

[Master___Pain]

I heard a funny coment this morning. It was basically that these bus drivers are used to sitting on their arses all day and after a couple of days standing and picketing, they'll be really sick of standing in a few days and cave by next week. Now only if the weather were not in the high 60s these next few days, it might have been a quicker cave in.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

You guys should be lucky you don't have to deal with the Chicago Dan Ryan Reconstruction. I know you have TRex for a few years but the Ryan runs through the heart of the City & is like shutting down 25 to 1 lane from University to I-70.

They say it will take 2 years but who knows, in the end they will only be adding depth to the concrete, they are not really adding many new lanes! At least there should be no more Pot holes you can literally drive a truck into!

Can't imagine that. Salt Lake City was really a mess when they shut down the freeways so they could get done before the olympics. Glad I don't have any trips planned to Chicago.

[Tredici]

Parking in downtown Denver already verges on highway robbery. Not to mention the times I've had my car nailed by hit & run drivers. I think I've figured out a series of transfers that will do the job, but it will add almost 90 minutes a day to my travel time.

When RTD says they have 45% of the routes up and running, that's misleading. Most of the 45% in question are the shorter in-city routes. Almost all the regional service has been cancelled.

Who I feel sorriest for are working single parents who have to juggle all of this with day care drop-offs and pick-ups.

This morning the $6 - $8 lots around Coors Field had brand new $30 signs on them. Supply and demand...

[ludo21]

This morning the $6 - $8 lots around Coors Field had brand new $30 signs on them. Supply and demand...


ouch..............

what is going on!!sheeeesh

[Master___Pain]

ouch..............

what is going on!!sheeeesh

Opening day is what's going on.

[ludo21]

Opening day is what's going on.


bout only time ppl see Rockies, eh?? :P

[Master___Pain]

bout only time ppl see Rockies, eh?? :P

People come all the time to see the mountains....oh you meant the AAA baseball team. Yeah, I think opening day is about as good as it get's. They are still in first place.

[Tredici]

I liked watching the F16's fly by out the office window. Otherwise opening day is pretty much an additional downtown traffic pain. Even when it seems like no one is in the stadium it still jacks things up trying to get out of downtown. Since both main routes go right by Coors.

[ludo21]

People come all the time to see the mountains....oh you meant the AAA baseball team. Yeah, I think opening day is about as good as it get's. They are still in first place.

haha

i always liked the Larry Walker, Todd Helton days........ i dont like baseball to begin with, but i rooted for them.

Grandparents had the BEST view of Pikes Peak out there back yard, it was sweet!!

And they moved.............:rofl:

[Kaylore]

This blows.

[Spider]

LOL bronco steven Dan Ryan is a pain in the ass , without construction ..........
as for the higher prices on the Rockies parking , the lot owners are gouging due to a bad situation , taking advantage ............
as for the striking workers , more power to them as long as they themselfs dont get to greedy ............the price of living in a big ole city , but we have parking issues in casper as well , Hey stop laughing dammit , we just got a fix bus routes here , the buses are not big but it is the thought that counts ........

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Well, Spider, If you ever get tired of driving that Freightliner, you can come down here and drive a bus. Used to be if you drove the Bronco Ride, the drivers got to sit on the grass at the corner of Mile High. Not sure what they do these days.

[yavoon]

fire them all.

and I'm not joking.

one thing I never understood about strikes is why the police let them be so disruptive to things. like when they do that circle walk along the crosswalks and things. how is that reasonable?

[RhymesayersDU]

You guys should be lucky you don't have to deal with the Chicago Dan Ryan Reconstruction. I know you have TRex for a few years but the Ryan runs through the heart of the City & is like shutting down 25 to 1 lane from University to I-70.

They say it will take 2 years but who knows, in the end they will only be adding depth to the concrete, they are not really adding many new lanes! At least there should be no more Pot holes you can literally drive a truck into!
My boy Steve lives around Chicago, and he was bitching about this a couple weeks ago, and I guess they finally implemented it and all hell broke loose. Trains being full, etc.

That really sucks, shutting down the main stretch of street in a big city.

[Old Dude]

Lovely ride this morning. First, I had to drive 15 miles to an active route.

By the time we got to 88th, every seat on the bus was full, and every inch of the aisle was taken up with standing passengers. Over the next 25 blocks or so, the driver had to turn away at least 30 more would-be riders. As you can imagine, they were not real happy about it. It was like fighting for a lifeboat on the Titanic.

On KOA radio, Owens was critical of the decision to strike.

"To do it on a Sunday night before Monday, to do it on opening day, to do it with five hours of notice, I think the union - at least that 55 percent that voted last night to strike - showed whose side they're on," the governor said. "They're certainly not thinking of the public; they're only thinking of themselves, trying to do it on a day when it would be as drastically hard for us to adjust as possible. However, what they're going to find is it is very easy to adjust."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3669892

Probably easier for some of us than others, Bill.
----------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, here's one of the reasons the workers are upset with the offer:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3669604

So top managers awarded themselves raises of $58,000, $40,000, $49,000, $27,000, $35,000 and $51,000 per year .

Some of us fend better than others, I guess.

[TailgateNut]

[QUOTE=yavoon]fire them all.

and I'm not joking.

QUOTE]


No $hit. The drivers are making over $20 p. hr. with benefits and up to 6 weeks vacation! It doesn't take a brain surgeon to drive a bus and stop at the little kiosks!

The drive from Westminster to Parker was a nightmare yesterday. Too many people who are not used to the fend for yourself attitude on I-25 during rush hour! You could tell who is not used to driving their own car!

[Master___Pain]

No $hit. The drivers are making over $20 p. hr. with benefits and up to 6 weeks vacation! It doesn't take a brain surgeon to drive a bus and stop at the little kiosks!

The drive from Westminster to Parker was a nightmare yesterday. Too many people who are not used to the fend for yourself attitude on I-25 during rush hour! You could tell who is not used to driving their own car!

I heard the national average for Bus Drivers wages is $19.00 per hour

If they are indeed making $20.00 (which is higher than the number I heard) the are making $41,600 gross or close to $32,000 after taxes with full benefits. That's more than most teachers make.

[TailgateNut]

I heard the national average for Bus Drivers wages is $19.00 per hour

If they are indeed making $20.00 (which is higher than the number I heard) the are making $41,600 gross or close to $32,000 after taxes with full benefits. That's more than most teachers make.

I wasn't aware of their pay rates until I read an article in the Denver Post this morning. Although their complaint regarding upper level pay increases may be valid, it's a fact of life! I'm sure many unemployed people would welcome a position with that type of salary and benefits.

[bfoflcommish]

I heard the national average for Bus Drivers wages is $19.00 per hour

If they are indeed making $20.00 (which is higher than the number I heard) the are making $41,600 gross or close to $32,000 after taxes with full benefits. That's more than most teachers make.

On 9news lastnight they showed an average of comparable size cities as Denver, and Denver was Second BEFORE THE STRIKE...And would be #1 by more than $1.00 an hour if they would have accepted the offer.

After getting laidoff more than a year ago and seeing what was out there benefits and pay wise, it is laughable to see some of the demands these drivers want.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

To be fair, the drivers are responsible for the safety of hundreds each day (not that you would know it by the way some of them drive). However it is when wages like this get out of proportion with the skills involved, that companies shift menial jobs overseas and the US job market becomes attractive to those from other countries.

[Old Dude]

Here's how I see the whole thing playing out.

First, we're going to go through 5 or 8 weeks of hell, while both sides drain each other's coffers.

Slowly but surely, 10% of the current strike voters will relent, which will give the non-strikers a slim majority.

Management will kick in some tiny incentive to get the deal done. Maybe an extra 5 cents an hour up front.

Then management, blaming the union (and higher gas prices generally) will raise the rates for all passengers by 10 or 25%. Most of this, however, will go to recovering lost revenues during the strike.

Management will also seek (and get) legislative authority to expand their private contracts (which are the only services running right now), so that they can cut down on union hiring, employee benefits, etc. Since it's established that the union is capable of making everyone's life miserable, the legislature will let management contract out another 10 or 15% of the routes.

So the drivers will come back, angry and out of a month's pay for nothing. Rates will rise. And the RTD management will make a lot of money, thereby justifying their own huge salary increases this year.

The only thing for sure is that commuters suffer for awhile, and then pay more, no matter what happens.

[Master___Pain]

Here's how I see the whole thing playing out.

First, we're going to go through 5 or 8 weeks of hell, while both sides drain each other's coffers.

Slowly but surely, 10% of the current strike voters will relent, which will give the non-strikers a slim majority.

Management will kick in some tiny incentive to get the deal done. Maybe an extra 5 cents an hour up front.

Then management, blaming the union (and higher gas prices generally) will raise the rates for all passengers by 10 or 25%. Most of this, however, will go to recovering lost revenues during the strike.

Management will also seek (and get) legislative authority to expand their private contracts (which are the only services running right now), so that they can cut down on union hiring, employee benefits, etc. Since it's established that the union is capable of making everyone's life miserable, the legislature will let management contract out another 10 or 15% of the routes.

So the drivers will come back, angry and out of a month's pay for nothing. Rates will rise. And the RTD management will make a lot of money, thereby justifying their own huge salary increases this year.

The only thing for sure is that commuters suffer for awhile, and then pay more, no matter what happens.


Sounds about right...unfortunately. I am glad I am not dependant on RTD, or live in Denver right now.

[Old Dude]

Pretty dead-on article:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4594070,00.html

[watermock]

yeah, they make 180 a day and don't have to be able to add 2+2. and have fulll benefits. The amusing thing is he is crying bout losing wages every day. Well the Union told them to vote for the new agreement. You people are nuts.

"I"m losing 180 dollars per day" Then get to work.

The Union told them to agree and they voted it down. 20 dollars an hour with benefits seems fine. Just sub contract it.

[Old Dude]

yeah, they make 180 a day and don't have to be able to add 2+2. and have fulll benefits. The amusing thing is he is crying bout losing wages every day. Well the Union told them to vote for the new agreement. You people are nuts.

"I"m losing 180 dollars per day" Then get to work.

The Union told them to agree and they voted it down. 20 dollars an hour with benefits seems fine. Just sub contract it.


The deal is that they when they saw their managers scoop up huge raises earlier this year, they got their hopes way up. So part of it is just raw disappointment.

They are worried about future health care increases, and some of the "raise" that they've been offered has come from a simultaneous reduction in what the employer is willing to contribute to the health insurance program. So the raise is not quite as good as it looks on its face. But here, almost everyone is in the same boat. Health care is going up for everyone, and it's eating a bigger portion of everyone's check.

The third thing is that they get a lot of vacation days, but they have to stay on call, and can't really make plans or go anywhere, and a lot of them are working overtime on a continual basis. That sounds like something that could be worked out with a little better scheduling by management and a few extra hires - part time if necessary.

Regardless, everyone seems convinced that the strike will fail. The only question is how long it will take, and how much the commuters will get gouged in fare increases when it's all over.

[Broncos Rule]

Here's how I see the whole thing playing out.

First, we're going to go through 5 or 8 weeks of hell, while both sides drain each other's coffers.

Slowly but surely, 10% of the current strike voters will relent, which will give the non-strikers a slim majority.

Management will kick in some tiny incentive to get the deal done. Maybe an extra 5 cents an hour up front.

Then management, blaming the union (and higher gas prices generally) will raise the rates for all passengers by 10 or 25%. Most of this, however, will go to recovering lost revenues during the strike.

Management will also seek (and get) legislative authority to expand their private contracts (which are the only services running right now), so that they can cut down on union hiring, employee benefits, etc. Since it's established that the union is capable of making everyone's life miserable, the legislature will let management contract out another 10 or 15% of the routes.

So the drivers will come back, angry and out of a month's pay for nothing. Rates will rise. And the RTD management will make a lot of money, thereby justifying their own huge salary increases this year.

The only thing for sure is that commuters suffer for awhile, and then pay more, no matter what happens.


The only part you forgot is the cost of parking downtown will rise by 25-30% due to increased demand - and then stay that way even after the strike is settled.

[Kaylore]

I was in an argument with someone, I think Beerslug, on why I hate unions and the Denver RTD union is toward the top of my list. Last time they threatened because they weren't going to get their birthday off as paid vacation.

[yavoon]

[QUOTE=yavoon]fire them all.

and I'm not joking.

QUOTE]


No $hit. The drivers are making over $20 p. hr. with benefits and up to 6 weeks vacation! It doesn't take a brain surgeon to drive a bus and stop at the little kiosks!

The drive from Westminster to Parker was a nightmare yesterday. Too many people who are not used to the fend for yourself attitude on I-25 during rush hour! You could tell who is not used to driving their own car!

americans that dont work under the influence of a powerful gov't union(atleast private companies can file bankruptcy) pay hundreds of millions(billions?) of dollars because of it. All this giving in to unskilled labor and paying them 20-30$ an hour and giving them ridiculous free health benefits for their entire families and absurd pensions is hugely expensive to everyone else in america. The sooner ppl realize this the sooner we can stop having dock workers earning 120 000 dollars a year.

[Old Dude]

Union wants Owens to force RTD into arbitration:

http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_094145624.html

Which has been a goal since January:

... The public union went through the odd dance in January of formally requesting, as required by law, permission to strike from the Colorado Department of Labor and Employment. At the same time, the union asked the department to deny permission.

It was a tactic to get the state agency to bar a strike by declaring the union an essential public service, thereby forcing arbitration. It put RTD in the position - to avoid arbitration - of arguing that the state should grant its union permission to strike. ...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4593810,00.html

But it doesn't sound like Owens has any intention of doing this:

I ran into Bill Owens on Monday as he was heading into Coors Field for Opening Day. He wasn't expecting the strike to last long. That accounted for the smile on his face.

"I don't see how it could," he was saying, noting the 45 percent who opposed the strike.

He said the union was playing a bad hand - and one that everyone could see.

"It's like you're playing poker, and a 2 and 3 are showing as your up cards."


So much for that.

:olddude:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Union wants Owens to force RTD into arbitration:

http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_094145624.html

Which has been a goal since January:

... The public union went through the odd dance in January of formally requesting, as required by law, permission to strike from the Colorado Department of Labor and Employment. At the same time, the union asked the department to deny permission.

It was a tactic to get the state agency to bar a strike by declaring the union an essential public service, thereby forcing arbitration. It put RTD in the position - to avoid arbitration - of arguing that the state should grant its union permission to strike. ...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4593810,00.html

But it doesn't sound like Owens has any intention of doing this:

I ran into Bill Owens on Monday as he was heading into Coors Field for Opening Day. He wasn't expecting the strike to last long. That accounted for the smile on his face.

"I don't see how it could," he was saying, noting the 45 percent who opposed the strike.

He said the union was playing a bad hand - and one that everyone could see.

"It's like you're playing poker, and a 2 and 3 are showing as your up cards."


So much for that.

:olddude:

Seems funny they would want arbitration since most of the certified arbitrators in this region tend toward the non union point of view.

[Old Dude]

Seems funny they would want arbitration since most of the certified arbitrators in this region tend toward the non union point of view.

Good point, but I think they feel like management won't buckle an inch without a third party entering the picture.

However, it simply isn't going to happen.

[Tredici]

Crap. I wanted to take the Light Rail to the Pepsi Center tomorrow for the Avs game.

Cave in!

It's just too inconvenient.

Hahahahhahahhaa.

[Old Dude]

I can hardly wait to see what joys await me on my attempted ride home tonight.

I'm going to try to intercept a local bus at its second stop, but I'm not sure if there will be any room on it. Depends how hard I elbow my way past the other desperados on Colfax Avenue. If I can get a foothold there, and if my transfer is on time, I think I can make it home in less than two hours.

This f*****g sux.

Then, tonight, I get to visit H&R Block and find out how much I owe the government this year.

:(

[Old Dude]

Day 3

Great piece, even if you don't care about the strlke:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4596878,00.html

[RhymesayersDU]

Crap. I wanted to take the Light Rail to the Pepsi Center tomorrow for the Avs game.

Cave in!

It's just too inconvenient.

Hahahahhahahhaa.
Ain't that the truth. Good to know that I'm gunna have to pay $10 to park at Pepsi for Nuggets games. And they better not jack up that $10 to $20 come playoff time.

[Master___Pain]

And they better not jack up that $10 to $20 come playoff time.

That's a given. BTW, there is $5 Dollar parking just across from the Conoco on the Metro Campus.

[RhymesayersDU]

That's a given. BTW, there is $5 Dollar parking just across from the Conoco on the Metro Campus.
Cool, I didn't know that. Although the Kings tickets I won off eBay last night include a parking pass, but for playoffs that will be helpful.

[Master___Pain]

Cool, I didn't know that. Although the Kings tickets I won off eBay last night include a parking pass, but for playoffs that will be helpful.

I'm going to the lakers game tomorrow BY CAR DAMNIT. Damn you Bus Driver's Union, Damn you!!!

[RhymesayersDU]

I'm going to the lakers game tomorrow BY CAR DAMNIT. Damn you Bus Driver's Union, Damn you!!!
Nice. I'll be in class from 5:30-9:30, effectively missing the whole game. It'll be sweet. This new schedule full of late classes sucks my ass. Now the only games I can watch are on fri/sat/sun or they're west coast games that start late. Last night I was able to catch the 2nd half of the Clips game.

If there isn't a home playoff game on a fri/sat/sun for the Nugs, I am going to be uber pissed. the playoffs are so much fun.

[Old Dude]

Reports are that a second tentative agreement has been reached between union leaders & management. But the union won't, apparently, vote on it until Sunday night. Even if they agree to it, buses might stay parked on Monday while the RTD board of directors mulls it over, and they aren't scheduled to meet until Tuesday.

Maybe the end is in sight.