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View Full Version : In Brazil, The Driving Is Sweeter


Bronx33
03-30-2006, 11:35 AM
Good for them...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/29/eveningnews/main1454613.shtml

(CBS) Wouldn't it be nice if, one day, we didn't have to worry about the ups and downs of the gas markets?

Well in Brazil, the fifth largest country in the world, there's a plan to become free from imported oil, not in the next 30 years, not in the next 10, but by the end of this year, reports CBS News correspondent Trish Regan.

That's primarily because while the rest of the world was mapping the human genome, scientists in Brazil were mapping the DNA of sugar in an effort to create a cleaner, cheaper alternative to gasoline: sugarcane ethanol.

They succeeded. Brazil's ethanol is about 30 percent less expensive than gasoline; according to the World Bank, it's about 50 cents cheaper per gallon to produce sugarcane ethanol. And although ethanol gets slightly less mileage, it's still cheaper on a per-mile-driven basis.

"The way we figure it, ethanol will be cheaper than gasoline as long as the price of oil is over $45 a barrel," said William Bernquist, coordinator for research and development at the Sugar Cane Technology Institute in Piracicaba, Brazil.

With oil upwards of $60 dollars a barrel, and no relief in sight, Bernquist predicts that ethanol will stay cheaper for some time.

"We started our ethanol program in the '70s because of the oil crisis in the '70s," he said. "And so we had to survive."

And "survival" meant finding a homegrown source of fuel, says Eduardo Carvalho, president of Sugar Cane Agroindustry Union. "We had no money to pay for the import of oil," he told Regan.

As chief economic advisor to Brazil's finance minister in the 1970s, Eduardo Carvalho pushed for government subsidies to help the fledgling sugarcane industry take shape.

Carvalho told Regan that it's a good feeling to know that by the end of the year his country will no longer have to rely on the Middle East for oil. "(It's) extremely important," he said. "We feel very proud."

Beginning in the 1970s, every gas station in the country was required to have at least one ethanol pump and the government mandated that all gasoline be mixed with ethanol.

"We began to blend increasing quantities of ethanol in our gasoline pool," Carvalho said.

But, as the ethanol began to replace gasoline, that led to another development: a brand new kind of car called a "flex vehicle." The car gives you the option of using a gasoline ethanol blend or 100 percent ethanol depending on whatever is cheaper. In San Paolo, Brazil, ethanol is the cheaper fuel to use.

Today, 70 percent of new cars sold in Brazil are flex vehicles, which cost no more than a regular car.

With the fuel environmentally cleaner to burn and the car cheaper to run, you've got to ask whether there is any downside to the fuel.

Carvalho says the biggest downside is the oil industry. "They aren't able to sell their product. … Basically, the people who produce oil, they don't like us … because we are getting their markets. … It's very simple."

The U.S. has made inroads on ethanol, but the focus here has been on corn-based ethanol, which is more expensive to process. By any measure, the U.S. is still probably decades behind Brazil on this alternative energy front.

Garcia Bronco
03-30-2006, 11:53 AM
that's cool...but it's still not an answer.

Rohirrim
03-30-2006, 12:06 PM
that's cool...but it's still not an answer.

It's probably not the permanent answer, but if we could get disentangled from ME politics, I'd be all for it. Of course, as long as oil executives are running the U.S., it ain't gonna happen.

Garcia Bronco
03-30-2006, 12:09 PM
It's probably not the permanent answer, but if we could get disentangled from ME politics, I'd be all for it. Of course, as long as oil executives are running the U.S., it ain't gonna happen.


Okay...let's say you have people off gas...you're still getting a ton of oil for a huge range of products that we use everyday. Getting off oil is going to take a long long time. Doesn't matter if it's sugar, corn, or oil...the consumer is still going to get jammed. "Say hello to the new boss...same as the old boss".

Bronx33
03-30-2006, 12:53 PM
that's cool...but it's still not an answer.

Something is better than nothing.

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2006, 12:59 PM
Okay...let's say you have people off gas...you're still getting a ton of oil for a huge range of products that we use everyday. Getting off oil is going to take a long long time. Doesn't matter if it's sugar, corn, or oil...the consumer is still going to get jammed. "Say hello to the new boss...same as the old boss".

Right now, the US can make great strides toward becoming self sufficient on all of those fronts. The market is calling for change...are our civil "servants" (yeah right) listening?

Bronco_Beerslug
03-30-2006, 01:00 PM
Okay...let's say you have people off gas...you're still getting a ton of oil for a huge range of products that we use everyday. Getting off oil is going to take a long long time. Doesn't matter if it's sugar, corn, or oil...the consumer is still going to get jammed. "Say hello to the new boss...same as the old boss".
You're missing the whole point. They don't depend on countries that support terrorists for their fuel. And the only reason it will take a "long time" is if the oil and gas politicos continue it to be so.

alkemical
03-30-2006, 01:12 PM
I know lots of things are made from oil...

plastics, parafin wax, etc

but we americans could say..... make all racing ventures switch to something like this?

Boobs McGee
03-30-2006, 01:41 PM
We need to legalize industrialized hemp again, it would solve a LOT of world problems

Rohirrim
03-30-2006, 01:42 PM
How much does the U.S. rely on ME oil? 8%? 10%? We could get off of that fairly quickly. Raise the CAFE standards. Switch to an ethanol mix. Install solar panels on houses, especially where they use oil powered generators. If we had the political will, we could do it pretty quickly. Let the ME become China's problem. Ha!

alkemical
03-30-2006, 01:43 PM
I see no reason beyond the influence of certain groups why we cannot move past this 'old' technology?

Mile High Shack
03-30-2006, 01:50 PM
I see no reason beyond the influence of certain groups why we cannot move past this 'old' technology?

that right there is why it's not going to happen anytime soon

Oil is so involved in our government and fiscal policy that it's going to take something more major than 2.80 gas to change it

alkemical
03-30-2006, 02:05 PM
MHS,

I firmly agree - i just feel that we should always try to uphold our spot in the world as a flame of enlightenment to the rest of the world. We should be moving into these areas.

Also why does the solution for our upcoming energy woes have to be onesize fits all? Why can't we do some regionlization?

Some areas are good for solar, some for wind, etc etc -

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2006, 02:10 PM
MHS,

I firmly agree - i just feel that we should always try to uphold our spot in the world as a flame of enlightenment to the rest of the world. We should be moving into these areas.

Also why does the solution for our upcoming energy woes have to be onesize fits all? Why can't we do some regionlization?

Some areas are good for solar, some for wind, etc etc -

Flame of enlightenment? More like cash flow.

Boobs McGee
03-30-2006, 02:12 PM
I'm telling you guys. Hemp is such a great alternative. Especially with the hemp "synthetics" they're coming up with these days. You can run entire engies off of hempseed oil. The cars run cleaner and more efficiently. BMW has been using hemp fibers and different hemp polymers in their cars for years already.

Farming the stuff has EXTREME upsides. First off, farmers welcome the hemp stalks because it's a "cover crop" that protects other crops from infestation. You can harvest it 6 times as often as any of your other major crops, and it requires no pesticides to keep healthy (another BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR industry that ****s with everybody's bodies). Topsoil (which is getting washed away by the TON daily thanks to modern day farming techniques) could be strengthened and stableized, while simultaneously stopping constant flooding and mudslides in rural areas. You can make food, clothing that lasts 10 times longer, recyclable paper that lasts for 100 years......

We're the only MAJOR country in the world that still makes it illegal to grow and cultivate (except in North Dakota, i think). China, Mexico, Russia, Australia, South America in it's entirety, even our Canadian neighbors are figuring it out

We need to get back to a product that can help everybody.

Boobs McGee
03-30-2006, 02:12 PM
and no i'm not a hippie

epicSocialism4tw
03-30-2006, 02:14 PM
I'm telling you guys. Hemp is such a great alternative. Especially with the hemp "synthetics" they're coming up with these days. You can run entire engies off of hempseed oil. The cars run cleaner and more efficiently. BMW has been using hemp fibers and different hemp polymers in their cars for years already.

Farming the stuff has EXTREME upsides. First off, farmers welcome the hemp stalks because it's a "cover crop" that protects other crops from infestation. You can harvest it 6 times as often as any of your other major crops, and it requires no pesticides to keep healthy (another BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR industry that ****s with everybody's bodies). Topsoil (which is getting washed away by the TON daily thanks to modern day farming techniques) could be strengthened and stableized, while simultaneously stopping constant flooding and mudslides in rural areas. You can make food, clothing that lasts 10 times longer, recyclable paper that lasts for 100 years......

We're the only MAJOR country in the world that still makes it illegal to grow and cultivate (except in North Dakota, i think). China, Mexico, Russia, Australia, South America in it's entirety, even our Canadian neighbors are figuring it out

We need to get back to a product that can help everybody.

Like Bronconia?

alkemical
03-30-2006, 02:18 PM
Flame of enlightenment? More like cash flow.


no - flame of enlightenment, if you do the right thing you are rewarded.

Boobs McGee
03-30-2006, 02:21 PM
Like Bronconia?

exACTly :afro:

elsid13
03-30-2006, 04:41 PM
I sometimes wonder if people think thru all the potential issues that will occur if the West stop importing oil from the Middle East. Since 99.9% of the economies in that region of the world are tied to oil, if the demand suddenly drops to nothing ME economies potential will be go into great depression. Which leave a lot very angry young men with no hope which leads to more recruits for the terrorist and criminal organizations. The policy really needs to twofold- ease reliance on ME oil and the Western World need to help the countries diversify thier economies to better with stand loss of single product line.

alkemical
03-31-2006, 09:36 AM
well if they are too poor, it would make getting here alot more difficult. Besides they have china to sell oil too