Afghan Court Drops Case Against Christian

[Bronx33]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060326/ap_on_re_mi_ea/afghan_christian_convert

KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan court on Sunday dismissed a case against a man who converted from Islam to Christianity because of a lack of evidence and he will be released soon, officials said.
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The announcement came as U.S.-backed President Hamid Karzai faced mounting foreign pressure to free Abdul Rahman, a move that risked angering Muslim clerics here who have called for him to be killed.

An official closely involved with the case told The Associated Press that it had been returned to the prosecutors for more investigation, but that in the meantime, Rahman would be released.

"The court dismissed today the case against Abdul Rahman for a lack of information and a lot of legal gaps in the case," the official said Sunday, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

"The decision about his release will be taken possibly tomorrow," the official added. "They don't have to keep him in jail while the attorney general is looking into the case."

Abdul Wakil Omeri, a spokesman for the Supreme Court, confirmed that the case had been dismissed because of "problems with the prosecutors' evidence."

He said several of Rahman's family members have testified that the 41-year-old has mental problems. "It is the job of the attorney general's office to decide if he is mentally fit to stand trial," he told AP.

A Western diplomat, also declining to be identified because of the sensitivity of the case, said questions were being raised as to whether Rahman would stay in
Afghanistan or go into exile in a foreign country.

Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice said she could not confirm that an Afghan court had dismissed the case and stressed the U.S. needs to respect the sovereignty of Afghanistan, which she called a "young democracy."

"We have our history of conflicts that had to be worked out after a new constitution. And so the Afghans are working on it. But America has stood solidly for religious freedom as a bedrock, the bedrock, of democracy, and we'll see." Rice said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Asked if American Christian missionaries should be encouraged to go to Afghanistan, Rice said: "I think that Afghans are pleased to get the help that they can get" but added "we need to be respectful of Afghan sovereignty."

Rahman has been prosecuted under Afghanistan's Islamic laws for converting 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He was arrested last month and charged with apostasy.

Muslim clerics had threatened to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if the government freed him. They said he clearly violated Islamic Shariah law by rejecting Islam.

The case against Rahman put Karzai in an awkward position.

While the U.S., Britain and other countries that prop-up his government have demanded the trial be dropped, Karzai has had to be careful not to offend Islamic sensibilities at home and alienate religious conservatives who wield considerable power.

Rahman had been held at a detention facility in central Kabul since his arrest, but he was moved to the notorious Policharki Prison just outside Kabul on Friday after threats were made against him by other inmates, prison warden Gen. Shahmir Amirpur told AP.

Policharki, a high-security prison housing some 2,000 inmates, including about 350 Taliban and al-Qaida militants who were blamed for inciting a riot there late last month that killed six people.

"We are watching him constantly. This is a very sensitive case so he needs high security," he said in an interview in his office in a crumbling building inside the jail.

Rahman is being held in a cell by himself next to the office of a senior prison guard, the warden said. He showed the AP the outside of Rahman's cell door, but refused to allow reporters to speak to him or see him.

He said Rahman had been asking guards for a Bible but that they did not have any to give him.

Rahman, meanwhile, said he was fully aware of his choice and was ready to die for it, according to an interview published Sunday in an Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

"I am serene. I have full awareness of what I have chosen. If I must die, I will die," Abdul Rahman told the Rome daily, responding to questions sent to him via a human rights worker who visited him in prison.

"Somebody, a long time ago, did it for all of us," he added in a clear reference to Jesus.

Rahman also told the Italian newspaper that his family — including his ex-wife and teenage daughters — reported him to the authorities three weeks ago.

He said he made his choice to become a Christian "in small steps," after he left Afghanistan 16 years ago. He moved to Pakistan, then Germany. He tried to get a visa in Belgium.

"In Peshawar I worked for a humanitarian organization. They were Catholics," Rahman said. "I started talking to them about religion, I read the Bible, it opened my heart and my mind."

[RMT]

I hope he's okay. He'll probably be lucky to stay alive once he's released. It would be nice for a country to step in and offer him asylum. The key will be getting him and his family out there.

[Bronx33]

I hope he's okay. He'll probably be lucky to stay alive once he's released. It would be nice for a country to step in and offer him asylum. The key will be getting him and his family out there.


It's crazy when the preachers/inmans want to cut your head off or pull you apart piece by piece, these guys need to learn tolerance and step into the next century.

[Meck77]

It's news like this that LA just loves to avoid.

Here was LA's first post when this story first hit the forum. He just couldn't wait to take a stab at Dubya. Well LA time to retract your statement that freedom isn't on the march.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=39652 (see post #14)

03-21-2006, 07:06 AM #14
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Slave to the Groove




Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The fast lane
Posts: 15,660

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Rahman's case contradicts Article 7 of Afghanistan's constitution, which assures that "the state shall abide by … the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." That declaration states that "everyone has the right to freedom of thought … to change his religion or belief."


However, the constitution also states that Islamic law takes precedence over secular law and international treaties. Furthermore, the supreme court of that country has the right to veto certain provisions and interpret compliance with such treaties.


LA's Response

Huh?

I thought that, according to GeeDubya and his supporters, "freedom is on the march" in Afghanistan??

[orangeatheist]

Dismissed for "lack of evidence"? Evidence of what? That he was once a Muslim and then became a Christian? Hell...hasn't he already admitted to this? Isn't that "evidence" enough for these people?

Man, talk about looking for a loophole.

I hope he's okay. He'll probably be lucky to stay alive once he's released. It would be nice for a country to step in and offer him asylum. The key will be getting him and his family out there.

It was his family who turned him in.

What's really cracking me up is his defense is claiming he's mentally ill. As in, "Only a mentally ill person would become a Christian." :rofl:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Dismissed for "lack of evidence"? Evidence of what? That he was once a Muslim and then became a Christian? Hell...hasn't he already admitted to this? Isn't that "evidence" enough for these people?

Man, talk about looking for a loophole.



It was his family who turned him in.

What's really cracking me up is his defense is claiming he's mentally ill. As in, "Only a mentally ill person would become a Christian." :rofl:

The UN nations started putting pressure on them. Thus, the loophole. They are, after all, still subject to the west.

On another note, I think that investing in seminary to become an atheist could qualify as insanity! :flower:

[Spider]

good to see pressure still works ..............

[epicSocialism4tw]

good to see pressure still works ..............

It's the 'ol "we walked through and straight up took your country in about 3 months worth of work...do you really want to do this?" pressure.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It's news like this that LA just loves to avoid.

Here was LA's first post when this story first hit the forum. He just couldn't wait to take a stab at Dubya. Well LA time to retract your statement that freedom isn't on the march.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=39652 (see post #14)

03-21-2006, 07:06 AM #14
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Slave to the Groove




Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The fast lane
Posts: 15,660

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Rahman's case contradicts Article 7 of Afghanistan's constitution, which assures that "the state shall abide by … the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." That declaration states that "everyone has the right to freedom of thought … to change his religion or belief."


However, the constitution also states that Islamic law takes precedence over secular law and international treaties. Furthermore, the supreme court of that country has the right to veto certain provisions and interpret compliance with such treaties.


LA's Response

Huh?

I thought that, according to GeeDubya and his supporters, "freedom is on the march" in Afghanistan??

:oyvey:

Good God, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

The fact that the case was dismissed 'due to a lack of evidence' doesn't negate the realities and the facts about the country's constitution you just quoted:

However, the constitution also states that Islamic law takes precedence over secular law and international treaties. Furthermore, the supreme court of that country has the right to veto certain provisions and interpret compliance with such treaties.

So, yes, Oil Boy did, in fact, travel the long way to install another Islamic theocracy in Afghanistan - just as he did in Iraq.

In any event, your tactic here couldn't be flimsier or more obvious:

You think that if you can point to some tidbit of (what you perceive to be) positive news from Iraq or Afghanistan that the mere mention of this single event will somehow offset the cumulative disaster that is Bush's mid-east policy and repudiate the critics.

For the rest of us, there's intellectual honesty.

[orangeatheist]

On another note, I think that investing in seminary to become an atheist could qualify as insanity! :flower:

Why? If it wasn't for seminary, I'd still be duped!

[Mile High Shack]

Why? If it wasn't for seminary, I'd still be duped!

no

you are duped

you just don't know it

the devil has a good way of making a person fill with pride

"beats his chest and says, look how smart I am, I don't need God"

[Bronx33]

Dismissed for "lack of evidence"? Evidence of what? That he was once a Muslim and then became a Christian? Hell...hasn't he already admitted to this? Isn't that "evidence" enough for these people?

Man, talk about looking for a loophole.



It was his family who turned him in.

What's really cracking me up is his defense is claiming he's mentally ill. As in, "Only a mentally ill person would become a Christian." :rofl:


I think having the eye of the world on them was why they backed down.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Why? If it wasn't for seminary, I'd still be duped!

Or it could have helped keep you heady enough to form a moral contruct that gave you integrity enough to keep porn out of your life, and to be able to act with some decency towards others who arent atheists.

Edit:
Dont take it personally, but I just thought that we needed some perspective here.

[alkemical]

oh please, like people aren't judgemental with or without religion.

people who are regiliholics like pump themselves up with enough pride to cast judge on others. Don't say it isn't true or doesn't happen.

It's a psycological condition of man. in layman's terms, the closest thing i can find it being called is 'uppity'

[Mile High Shack]

oh please, like people aren't judgemental with or without religion.

people who are regiliholics like pump themselves up with enough pride to cast judge on others. Don't say it isn't true or doesn't happen.

It's a psycological condition of man. in layman's terms, the closest thing i can find it being called is 'uppity'

unfortuantely you are correct

that is man's biggest downfall, pride

[alkemical]

unfortuantely you are correct

that is man's biggest downfall, pride


MHS - at times i am shocked when i hear people of all faiths become so pompous in their words that they don't realize how full of pride (not dignity) in which they swell.

Where it's ok to debase others, because they are not like you. It's an odd thing really. Humans need to be attached to something bigger than themselves.

I may differ due to my principles in life than most of you who follow Christianity - but honestly - if you live your life like jesus/buddah, etc - you got nothing to worry about - you are living the extension/idea of love, and ideas don't die. Just people do.

[Spider]

It's the 'ol "we walked through and straight up took your country in about 3 months worth of work...do you really want to do this?" pressure.
That isnt much of a threat right now ............
1. there is nothing left to destroy ......
2. we cant even secure a school crossing in iraq right now .....
3. if it cost a dime for this country to take a shít we couldnt afford a fart .........

[loborugger]

unfortuantely you are correct

that is man's biggest downfall, pride


I thought "the love of money is the root of all evil?"

Either way, pride is wayyy up there.

In fact, if you dont agree with me, I am gonna be too proud to admit I am wrong...

ROFL!

[SoCalBronco]

no

you are duped

you just don't know it

the devil has a good way of making a person fill with pride

"beats his chest and says, look how smart I am, I don't need God"

REP

[Atlas]

It's news like this that LA just loves to avoid.

Here was LA's first post when this story first hit the forum. He just couldn't wait to take a stab at Dubya. Well LA time to retract your statement that freedom isn't on the march.


Well, the fact is that it's still against the law and it's still punishable by death to convert from Islam to Christianity. They didn't change the law they just worked around it saying he wasn't fit to stand trial.

Hardly a great democratic moment.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, the fact is that it's still against the law and it's still punishable by death to convert from Islam to Christianity. They didn't change the law they just worked around it saying he wasn't fit to stand trial.

Hardly a great democratic moment.

Hammer, nail, head. :thumbsup:

Apparently, this "subtle" distinction is completely lost on Meck. :D

(Which makes it all the more embarrassing for him insofar as he thought he was beating me down in his last post.)

:rofl:

[Bronx33]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060328/ap_on_re_as/afghan_christian_convert

KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who had faced the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity quickly vanished Tuesday after he was released from prison, apparently out of fear for his life with Muslim clerics still demanding his death.
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Italy's Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini said he would ask his government to grant Abdul Rahman asylum. Fini was among the first to speak out on the man's behalf.

Rahman, 41, was released from the high-security Policharki prison on the outskirts of Kabul late Monday, Afghan Justice Minister Mohammed Sarwar Danish told The Associated Press.

"We released him last night because the prosecutors told us to," he said. "His family was there when he was freed, but I don't know where he was taken."

Deputy Attorney-General Mohammed Eshak Aloko said prosecutors had issued a letter calling for Rahman's release because "he was mentally unfit to stand trial." He also said he did not know where Rahman had gone after being released.

He said Rahman may be sent overseas for medical treatment.

On Monday, hundreds of clerics, students and others chanting "Death to Christians!" marched through the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif to protest the court decision Sunday to dismiss the case. Several Muslim clerics threatened to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if he is freed, saying that he is clearly guilty of apostasy and deserves to die.

"Abdul Rahman must be killed. Islam demands it," said senior Cleric Faiez Mohammed, from the nearby northern city of Kunduz. "The Christian foreigners occupying
Afghanistan are attacking our religion."

Rahman was arrested last month after police discovered him with a Bible during a custody dispute over his two daughters. He was put on trial last week for converting 16 years ago while he was a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He faced the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws.

The case set off an outcry in the United States and other nations that helped oust the hard-line Taliban regime in late 2001 and provide aid and military support for Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
President Bush and others had insisted Afghanistan protect personal beliefs.

U.N. spokesman Adrian Edwards said Rahman has asked for asylum outside Afghanistan.

"We expect this will be provided by one of the countries interested in a peaceful solution to this case," he said.

Fini, the Italian foreign minister who is also deputy premier, will seek permission to grant Rahman asylum at a Cabinet meeting Wednesday, a Foreign Ministry statement said.

Fini had earlier expressed Italy's "indignation" over the case.
Pope Benedict XVI also appealed to Karzai to protect Rahman.

Italy has close ties with Afghanistan, whose former king, Mohammed Zaher Shah, was allowed to live with his family in exile in Rome for 30 years. The former royals returned to Kabul after the fall of the Taliban regime a few years ago.

Asked whether the U.S. government was doing anything to secure Rahman's safety after his release, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington that where he goes after being freed is "up to Mr. Rahman." He urged Afghans not to resort to violence even if they are unhappy with the resolution of the case.

The international outrage over Rahman's case put Karzai in a difficult position because he also risked offending religious sensibilities in Afghanistan, where senior Muslim clerics have been united in calling for Rahman to be executed.

[alkemical]

There is something i'm not buying in this story.

[loborugger]

Well, the fact is that it's still against the law and it's still punishable by death to convert from Islam to Christianity. They didn't change the law they just worked around it saying he wasn't fit to stand trial.

Hardly a great democratic moment.


Exactly - and take it to the next step. The next time some poor schmuck over there decides to convert and his/her story isnt broadcast acrossed the planet, he/she will pay the ultimate price.

[Meck77]

Exactly - and take it to the next step. The next time some poor schmuck over there decides to convert and his/her story isnt broadcast acrossed the planet, he/she will pay the ultimate price.

Not necessarily. The guy walked. They didn't kill him did they? Maybe the guy was insane maybe he wasn't. Either way there was enough pressure on them to where they knew if they killed this guy there would be a huge backlash.

You think they would have let this guy walk 5 years ago? Hell no!!!!!! They would have lopped his head off on the spot. They didn't.

The world is watching them now and they know it.

[loborugger]

You think they would have let this guy walk 5 years ago? Hell no!!!!!!

And 5 years from now the case will be the same.

How many times can one single human grab the attention of the planet for being a victim, or a potential victim.

[epicSocialism4tw]

And 5 years from now the case will be the same.

How many times can one single human grab the attention of the planet for being a victim, or a potential victim.

You're right. This stuff happens all over the world everyday. Just do a little research on the Sudan or Indonesia. Those two stick out like sore thumbs.

[loborugger]

You're right. This stuff happens all over the world everyday. Just do a little research on the Sudan or Indonesia. Those two stick out like sore thumbs.


I had a friend that was in women's studies in college. She would get all wrapped around the axle over Sudanese FGM (female genital mutilation), which is disguisting. Its cruel to cut out part of a woman's fun part. However, in all that time, she never mentioned that Christians weren't just losing their fun spots. Funny how things work.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I had a friend that was in women's studies in college. She would get all wrapped around the axle over Sudanese FGM (female genital mutilation), which is disguisting. Its cruel to cut out part of a woman's fun part. However, in all that time, she never mentioned that Christians weren't just losing their fun spots. Funny how things work.

Yeah...they were being slaughtered with machetes and machine guns, herded into camps, and methodically euthanized.

[SoCalBronco]

Christians have also been brutally murdered and discriminated against regularly in Egypt.

[Atlas]

Christians have also been brutally murdered and discriminated against regularly in Egypt.

Your right. Christians have also been slaughtered in Sundan and Somalia.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Not necessarily. The guy walked. They didn't kill him did they? Maybe the guy was insane maybe he wasn't. Either way there was enough pressure on them to where they knew if they killed this guy there would be a huge backlash.

You think they would have let this guy walk 5 years ago? Hell no!!!!!! They would have lopped his head off on the spot. They didn't.

The world is watching them now and they know it.

Spin it how you like - the fact remains that the Afghan government is an Islamic theocracy and its constitution states that Islamic law takes precedence over secular law and international treaties. Furthermore, the supreme court of that country has the right to veto certain provisions and interpret compliance with such treaties.

In other words, contrary to the claims of purveyors of WH talking ponts such as yourself, BushCo has not transformed the country and its government into bastions of democracy and freedom.

[Cito Pelon]

I tell ya what, Hooray!!!!! Too bad it takes having a military presence to make some people understand tolerance is good, intolerance bad.

This makes me feel good. A small victory, but a good victory. At some point, if this planet is to amount to anything, these type of small victories are going to have to be routine. What that is gonna take is for the Big Powers to come to an accomodation about how they are going to share global military power.

The Big Powers cannot keep fighting for spheres of influence. There is gonna have to be cooperation to achieve stability. It's no secret I blame Russia and China for promoting instability. Either they play the cooperation game voluntarily, or we have to force them to. So far, we've always had to force them to. I'm sick and tired of it.

My whole life, we have always tried to get them to cooperate to get some stability going, they've always played along only so much as it gained them spheres of influence. That has to end. Enough is enough. If all they understand is an ass-kicking so be it. I think that is all they understand.

[Atlas]

I tell ya what, Hooray!!!!! Too bad it takes having a military presence to make some people understand tolerance is good, intolerance bad.
.


They didn't make them realize that tolerance was good. The only thing Afghanistan realized that if they didn't give in to the West's demands they were going to lose all sorts of aid and respect.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

They didn't make them realize that tolerance was good. The only thing Afghanistan realized that if they didn't give in to the West's demands they were going to lose all sorts of aid and respect.

Atlas with the reality check. :thumbs: