Mario Willliams

[Popps]

O.K. draftnicks, give me some hope.

Any chance of us doing the right thing in this draft, or are we going to let this guy slip to the Raiders, as one mock has it...

Physically Williams has everything you look for in a premier defensive end and he might very well be the best prospect to come along at the position since Julius Peppers. He is still a little inconsistent but when his motor is running he can be unblockable and a true difference maker on the defensive side of the ball. Linebacker is also a major need and Hawk would provide a huge boost to that unit and while the offensive line has some talent they were terrible last year and D'Brickashaw Ferguson might be hard to pass up. Keep an eye on Vince Young if he starts to slip a little too because he is the type of athlete that Al Davis has been known to fall in love with in the past. With the way things have broken down though Williams is by far the best player left on the board and in this scenario he would definitely be the selection.

Both picks would get us in range, no?

[rbackfactory80]

To be safe you would have to strike a deal with NO

[GonzoLays]

Mario Williams or the 15th and 22nd picks which could very well end up being Chad Jackson and Tamba Hali.

Got to go with Mario Williams.

[OrangeShadow]

IMO hes not worth trading that far up for. Some say hes the next peppers/freeney but i dont see it. Maybe its just me i dont know i just think hes not worth it.

[Master___Pain]

Mario Williams or the 15th and 22nd picks which could very well end up being Chad Jackson and Tamba Hali.

Got to go with Mario Williams.

Holy ****, I agree with Gonzo. First time for everything I guess. Mario is the ONLY player I would package both firsts for to move up for in this draft. If not him, stay put.

[Jens1893]

I guess I´d rather have 2 good players than one very good.

Not to mention that top 5 picks are grossly overpaid.

[freak6]

Who has the Point Value System for picks?

[Jens1893]

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pvc.gif

[GonzoLays]

So we could move up to the 4th pick. Niice

[freak6]

Thanks Jens!

[GonzoLays]

But according to that that chart, how could we have moved up to the 15th pick by only sending out the 29th pick, a low third rounder and next years fourth rounder?

[bendog]

I like the fatty from Oregon cause reportedly he has a combination of strenght size and strength along the lines of Henderson in Jax. And, I wonder how much it'd cost to move up for him, because with Big Money that DT tackle combo would seriously change how teams match up, and both DE's would be assured 1-1, and Wilson would be free.

But, you're right. The only two guys this year who have really freakish type physical abilities are Mario and Davis, and Mario looks like a sure deal. VY is also sort of a freak, but he's a big risk with his motion and wonderlic

[TheManeMan]

just wanted to post this picture of Mario...I know somebody had it as their avy but, I couldnt remember who...anyway

http://2006.ontheclockdraft.com/images/players/MarioWilliams-01.jpg

[OrangeShadow]

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pvc.gif


We oughta sticky that ****,so many people ask for it

[GonzoLays]

We oughta sticky that ****,so many people ask for it

I don't think that chart is right because there is no way the 29th pick, a third rounder and a fourth rounder gets you to the 15th pick in the draft. But who is to say that teams have to follow the chart thought?

[rbackfactory80]

So we could move up to the 4th pick. Niice

If he would definitely be their at 4 I would do it, I just think NO is going to take him

[Willynowei]

I don't think that chart is right because there is no way the 29th pick, a third rounder and a fourth rounder gets you to the 15th pick in the draft. But who is to say that teams have to follow the chart thought?

THINK.... why do you think Denver fans consider the trade a steal for us?
Its quite obvious Falcons went way out off line for the 29th pick, but thats not what they ended up with, they got Abraham and thats all that mattered to him.

But usually teams don't stray far from that chart.

[Jens1893]

I don't think that chart is right because there is no way the 29th pick, a third rounder and a fourth rounder gets you to the 15th pick in the draft. But who is to say that teams have to follow the chart thought?

thats the point.

the value chart is for fans to play around with and to get a rough idea what could be done ....

[Willynowei]

O.K. draftnicks, give me some hope.

Any chance of us doing the right thing in this draft, or are we going to let this guy slip to the Raiders, as one mock has it...

Physically Williams has everything you look for in a premier defensive end and he might very well be the best prospect to come along at the position since Julius Peppers. He is still a little inconsistent but when his motor is running he can be unblockable and a true difference maker on the defensive side of the ball. Linebacker is also a major need and Hawk would provide a huge boost to that unit and while the offensive line has some talent they were terrible last year and D'Brickashaw Ferguson might be hard to pass up. Keep an eye on Vince Young if he starts to slip a little too because he is the type of athlete that Al Davis has been known to fall in love with in the past. With the way things have broken down though Williams is by far the best player left on the board and in this scenario he would definitely be the selection.

Both picks would get us in range, no?

What we all have to remember is that Denver is very flexible. Mario Williams at #4 is a real option if Denver is willing to give up 2 firsts, but we shouldn't ignore other possibilities that are very enticing as well.

For instance, Denver trading their #15, #63 and their current Years 4th round pick to move up to #10 or #9 IF Vernon Davis falls to 9-10 which is unlikely but possible.

Another possibility, Denver trades 2nd rounder and #22 for #16 and pick there.

Basically this is a team with a lot off cap room and a lot of picks, and that usually translates into a good draft.

[Clockwork Orange]

None of this may matter because New Orleans has already said that they'll take Mario 2nd overall if they can't trade down.

The price is too steep for the Broncos to trade up to #2, so the best people can hope for is that someone who wants Matt Leinart makes a deal with the Saints for their pick.

[eddie mac]

I dont believe this team will even take a DE in the 1st rd unless Williams stock falls like a brick and that's never gonna happen. Why else would the Broncos sign Lang to a 3 year deal, extend Ekuban's contract by another year, re-sign Engelberger and Brown. Broncos are gonna try and pick up a project specialist rusher later in the draft. If we trade up it'll either be for Davis or a QB and if we keep the 2 1st rounders it'll be best need players at either position.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

But according to that that chart, how could we have moved up to the 15th pick by only sending out the 29th pick, a low third rounder and next years fourth rounder?

Which is why it's continually stupid to rely on the "chart" when yesterday showed how far off it was.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I dont believe this team will even take a DE in the 1st rd unless Williams stock falls like a brick and that's never gonna happen. Why else would the Broncos sign Lang to a 3 year deal, extend Ekuban's contract by another year, re-sign Engelberger and Brown. Broncos are gonna try and pick up a project specialist rusher later in the draft. If we trade up it'll either be for Davis or a QB and if we keep the 2 1st rounders it'll be best need players at either position.

None of those 3 are anything more than average at best. Shanny could have gone for the long-term, young solutions like Carter or Abraham. It's set up perfectly to take a DE with one of the first 3 picks.

[eddie mac]

None of those 3 are anything more than average at best. Shanny could have gone for the long-term, young solutions like Carter or Abraham. It's set up perfectly to take a DE with one of the first 3 picks.

With Hali and Kiwanuka's stock falling are either any value at 15 or 22??? If we can somehow get Bunkley, average DE's become a little better if both Warren and Broderick need double teamed.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

#15, 4th round and Tatum Bell move Denver into range?

[extralife]

Doubtfull. Plus, call me crazy, but I'd like to hang on to Tatum unless we get a back in the first round.

[Willynowei]

I'll take my crowe on draft day if I'm wrong but I think the following scenario is very likely for some reason.

Houston picks Reggie Bush

Jets trade up #4 overall and #29 overall for #2 overall.
Jets pick Matt Leinart
Tennesee picks QB Vince Young/Jay Cutler

Denver trades up and NO yet again trades down for Denver's #15 and #22.
Denver takes Mario Williams.

New Orleans in this case: Gives up Mario Williams for #15, #22, #29 overall, seems likely to me.

Jets get #1 QB on their board.

[GonzoLays]

eh, why not.

[Hulamau]

None of this may matter because New Orleans has already said that they'll take Mario 2nd overall if they can't trade down.

The price is too steep for the Broncos to trade up to #2, so the best people can hope for is that someone who wants Matt Leinart makes a deal with the Saints for their pick.


As long as we keep both Young and Mario out of the Silver and Black I'm for it. It the Saints grab Mario all power to them as he'll be stuck in no-mans land for years and not in a position to mess with us much.

Plus with the rotation happy defensive line scheme Andre Patterson uses I don't know that we will get the most out of THE BEAST of a DE. We certainly need a great pass rusher, but not necessarily an every-down all-worlder when several really good DE's might work out just as well and cost a hell of a lot less.

[Clockwork Orange]

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment by getting their hearts set on Mario Williams.

[2KBack]

I'll take my crowe on draft day if I'm wrong but I think the following scenario is very likely for some reason.

Houston picks Reggie Bush

Jets trade up #4 overall and #29 overall for #2 overall.
Jets pick Matt Leinart
Tennesee picks QB Vince Young/Jay Cutler

Denver trades up and NO yet again trades down for Denver's #15 and #22.
Denver takes Mario Williams.

New Orleans in this case: Gives up Mario Williams for #15, #22, #29 overall, seems likely to me.

Jets get #1 QB on their board.

Love to see it happen, but how often are moves this drastic really made. IT seems about as likely as Denver trading up to #15 for some table scraps...What...oh Nevermind

[Lestat]

yeah we are, i know he's not coming to Denver but i'm still hoping against hope the FO will find a way to snag him without trading both 1sts

[Atlas]

I don't think that chart is right because there is no way the 29th pick, a third rounder and a fourth rounder gets you to the 15th pick in the draft. But who is to say that teams have to follow the chart thought?

The chart is accurate. The Falcons were desperate for a deal and Denver raped them!!!

[PortisFanForever]

I might throw something at the TV if we waste the #15 pick or even the #22 for that matter on Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson.. THE WR CLASS THIS YEAR IS HORRID!! thats the only reason those 2 guys are even ranked high plus it usually takes a rookie WR 3 years to contribute.. Why waste the pick on another project

You cant pass up a DeAngelo Williams, Maroney or Lendale(at least one of them will be there at #15) for a potential Marcus Nash!

Please dont take a WR .. PLEASE

[Atlas]

I might throw something at the TV if we waste the #15 pick or even the #22 for that matter on Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson.. THE WR CLASS THIS YEAR IS HORRID!! thats the only reason those 2 guys are even ranked high plus it usually takes a rookie WR 3 years to contribute.. Why waste the pick on another project

You cant pass up a DeAngelo Williams, Maroney or Lendale(at least one of them will be there at #15) for a potential Marcus Nash!

Please dont take a WR .. PLEASE

When they say it's a weak WR class they are refering to the fact that no WRs will be taken with the first 12 or so picks. I believe Holmes is worthy of the 15th pick.

[BroncoFiend]

I have a feeling (or maybe it's just a hope) that we will trade for either Moulds or Walker before the draft eliminating the need for a first round WR and setting us up for drafting a RB at 15 or trading up for somthing more.

I would love to see either of the following scenarios:

1) Trade 15 and second rounder to move up to #9 and nab Vernon Davis

2) Trade 15 and 22 to move up to the 4 or 5 spot and nab Super Mario

I'd be fine with staying put and grabbing the best rb that comes to us but I'd rather either option above.

[chaz]

I have a feeling (or maybe it's just a hope) that we will trade for either Moulds or Walker before the draft eliminating the need for a first round WR and setting us up for drafting a RB at 15 or trading up for somthing more.

I would love to see either of the following scenarios:

1) Trade 15 and second rounder to move up to #9 and nab Vernon Davis

2) Trade 15 and 22 to move up to the 4 or 5 spot and nab Super Mario

I'd be fine with staying put and grabbing the best rb that comes to us but I'd rather either option above.


i would absolutely love to see iether of those recievers come in. Definitely javon number one, but moulds would be good too and wouldnt cost us a pick as he is likely to be released.

i think we put ourselves in great position to grab a great runner, but i think i might be getting my hopes up with DW2 or lendale....i just dont see shanny trading up even further in rd. 1 for a runner

[Popps]

I'll take my crowe on draft day if I'm wrong but I think the following scenario is very likely for some reason.

Houston picks Reggie Bush

Jets trade up #4 overall and #29 overall for #2 overall.
Jets pick Matt Leinart
Tennesee picks QB Vince Young/Jay Cutler

Denver trades up and NO yet again trades down for Denver's #15 and #22.
Denver takes Mario Williams.

New Orleans in this case: Gives up Mario Williams for #15, #22, #29 overall, seems likely to me.

Jets get #1 QB on their board.

It really does make some sense. NO has a gob of holes to fill. We only have a few. One impact player won't put them over the SB hump next season... but it might for us. If I'm them, I'm game for trading down.

[BroncoBuff]

I don't think that chart is right because there is no way the 29th pick, a third rounder and a fourth rounder gets you to the 15th pick in the draft. But who is to say that teams have to follow the chart thought?

You are right, sir. It was highway robbery.:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=39777

I just hope the Falcons don't file a police report ...

[fontaine]

No thanks. We have four DEs in Engelberger/Lang/Ecuban/Brown.

We have zero TEs.

Stay pat and see if VD falls to #15. If not get the best available player (hopefully one of the RBs). Draft DT/DE with number #22.

Safety in 2nd. OL for the rest.

[OrangeShadow]

No thanks. We have four DEs in Engelberger/Lang/Ecuban/Brown.

We have zero TEs.

Engleberger cant russ the passer. Dude got knocked on his ass about every play. Lang will be good against the run but his pass rush is eh. Brown you dont know if he can stay healthy. Ekuban is a bit abover average.
We NEED to draft a pass rushing DE.

[Mediator12]

It really does make some sense. NO has a gob of holes to fill. We only have a few. One impact player won't put them over the SB hump next season... but it might for us. If I'm them, I'm game for trading down.

I just do not buy them picking Mario at Number 2 since they have two excellent young DE's in Will Smith and Charles Grant. Picking Mario would be a bad best player available selection putting one of those guys on the bench.

Now if they do select Mario, I say trade for one of the other guys, they probably would deal Grant. Ngata or Bunkley would make more sense to their DL running issues too.

[Willynowei]

No thanks. We have four DEs in Engelberger/Lang/Ecuban/Brown.

We have zero TEs.

Stay pat and see if VD falls to #15. If not get the best available player (hopefully one of the RBs). Draft DT/DE with number #22.

Safety in 2nd. OL for the rest.
Boy do people forget. Yes we have like 20 DEs, but yes they ALL SUCK.

Remember just 2 years ago when we had Hayward, Coleman and Co?
Hayward was okay but all the other DEs in Coyers "Great rotation" to keep them fresh did NOTHING.

I know Trevors production went down but do any of you remember the year Trevor was hurt? Do you remember how bad our pass rush was? Do you remember Champ Bailey getting beat by quadruple moves that took like 10 seconds to execute and the Defense couldn't even blitz to get pressure? Do you really want another season of that crap?

Unless Shanahan upgrades this D-line, we will have one ineffective defense next year, and you can count on that.

Another point, this is not College or Highschool football.

In the NFL teams pass 60%+ of the time. Which makes pass rushing #1 priority. The better your pass rush, the better your defense.

How many Defenses with good pass rushes can you name that are ineffective? But on the other hand, denver, buffalo and many teams in the past have had great linebackers and stopped the run but were very poor defenses.

Defending the pass IS everything. You can discipline a team to be a good run defense. Pass deffense requires athleticism, and that comes in the draft. You simply can't teach a guy to pass rush.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Boy do people forget. Yes we have like 20 DEs, but yes they ALL SUCK.

.

I think you are on the right track, but I would say they are nice backup material rather than they absolutely suck

[bendog]

Brown's fine at LDE, when he's able to play. He's not Reggie White, but how many LDE's get sacks as well as run support?

[Popps]

No thanks. We have four DEs in Engelberger/Lang/Ecuban/Brown.


They're all average, or back-ups, at best.

Do you honestly think that we're a tight end away from a championship? Really?

I've watched us plug in TEs since Sharpe left and we've gotten reasonably good production. Definitely not an area you point to and say, THAT is what's keeping us from a championship.

In other words, add a Shannon Sharpe in his prime to this team and it doesn't necessarily put us over in terms of moving up a level. Add a Neil Smith, and it might.

[Popps]

Boy do people forget. Yes we have like 20 DEs, but yes they ALL SUCK.

Remember just 2 years ago when we had Hayward, Coleman and Co?
Hayward was okay but all the other DEs in Coyers "Great rotation" to keep them fresh did NOTHING.

I know Trevors production went down but do any of you remember the year Trevor was hurt? Do you remember how bad our pass rush was? Do you remember Champ Bailey getting beat by quadruple moves that took like 10 seconds to execute and the Defense couldn't even blitz to get pressure? Do you really want another season of that crap?

Unless Shanahan upgrades this D-line, we will have one ineffective defense next year, and you can count on that.

Another point, this is not College or Highschool football.

In the NFL teams pass 60%+ of the time. Which makes pass rushing #1 priority. The better your pass rush, the better your defense.

How many Defenses with good pass rushes can you name that are ineffective? But on the other hand, denver, buffalo and many teams in the past have had great linebackers and stopped the run but were very poor defenses.

Defending the pass IS everything. You can discipline a team to be a good run defense. Pass deffense requires athleticism, and that comes in the draft. You simply can't teach a guy to pass rush.


Wow. Fantastic post. Cut/paste it and put it somewhere on this board once a day. It's needed.

You're exactly right on Pryce. His problem was that he didn't have the closing speed to play DE. They should have left him inside. BUT, he did create a good push, which at least occasionally got the QB moving to a place he didn't want to. (Your example of our line when he was gone was excellent.) He was also extremely stout against the run.

So, we just removed arguably our best player from a line that was already sub-par. Now, we're left with one good run clogger, and jack-#### after that.

Engelberger? Are people serious? I can't imagine the kind of medication and/or hypnosis you have to be under to (with a straight face) talk about that guy like he's some kind of a weapon.

The next thing you'll encounter when trying to push this logic is the "pressures not sacks" argument. First of all, that's just plain goofy in the first place. Secondly, it would be one thing if the pressures were coming from up front. They're not.

Our D-line had 15 sacks all YEAR long. FIFTEEN. There were a few PLAYERS with more than that.

I wish there were official stats kept for "pressures," too... because I'll guarantee you that, (like our sack rating) we'd be near the bottom of the league.

[Mediator12]

Wow. Fantastic post. Cut/paste it and put it somewhere on this board once a day. It's needed.

You're exactly right on Pryce. His problem was that he didn't have the closing speed to play DE. They should have left him inside. BUT, he did create a good push, which at least occasionally got the QB moving to a place he didn't want to. (Your example of our line when he was gone was excellent.) He was also extremely stout against the run.

So, we just removed arguably our best player from a line that was already sub-par. Now, we're left with one good run clogger, and jack-#### after that.

Engelberger? Are people serious? I can't imagine the kind of medication and/or hypnosis you have to be under to (with a straight face) talk about that guy like he's some kind of a weapon.

The next thing you'll encounter when trying to push this logic is the "pressures not sacks" argument. First of all, that's just plain goofy in the first place. Secondly, it would be one thing if the pressures were coming from up front. They're not.

Our D-line had 15 sacks all YEAR long. FIFTEEN. There were a few PLAYERS with more than that.

I wish there were official stats kept for "pressures," too... because I'll guarantee you that, (like our sack rating) we'd be near the bottom of the league.

Again, I agree with most of this popps. Everything but the pressures, though. There was plenty of Pressure last year and even in some games from the front four. The problem is there has not been a finisher on the DL since Berry left. Heyward was making strides but he was average last year with a Great DL around him.

I would trade ALOT for a legitimate RDE that can finish the plays. However, this is my one criticism of the FO. They are unwilling to spend on the most Important defensive position in the pass happy NFL. GET a REAL RDE and this defense would be superior instead of above average. Give Coyer some weapons on the line and this would be an elite defense. Otherwise, the old codger has to "shock and awe" other teams to be affective in the pass rush.

Coyer has been handed a POS defensive line for three years and made the defense above average and even dominant at times. Give him the weapons on DL over an inconsistent Plummer and I guarantee this team will get over the hump. For goodness sake, they gave up less 10 points in the first half of games last year and allowed the offense to get its feet wet and start getting big leads. With a pass rush, forget about second half comebacks!

[fontaine]

They're all average, or back-ups, at best.

Do you honestly think that we're a tight end away from a championship? Really?

I've watched us plug in TEs since Sharpe left and we've gotten reasonably good production. Definitely not an area you point to and say, THAT is what's keeping us from a championship.

In other words, add a Shannon Sharpe in his prime to this team and it doesn't necessarily put us over in terms of moving up a level. Add a Neil Smith, and it might.

I say TE (someone like Sharpe) because it isn't just about production. It's about a mismatch. Shannon Sharpe, during our SuperBowl Runs, was a constant mismatch that Mike could gameplan around. It basically meant the defense couldn't just send double coverage to Rod, or stack against the run (like they did this year in the playoffs) with impunity. Sharpe was more than just impressive numbers, he made the offensive players around him better simply by stepping up on the field. We don't have that at the moment.

Defending the pass IS everything. You can discipline a team to be a good run defense. Pass deffense requires athleticism, and that comes in the draft. You simply can't teach a guy to pass rush.

Engleberger cant russ the passer. Dude got knocked on his ass about every play. Lang will be good against the run but his pass rush is eh. Brown you dont know if he can stay healthy. Ekuban is a bit abover average.
We NEED to draft a pass rushing DE.

Sorry, my mistake. In my original post I said we should go DT/DE at #22. What I mean to say was that I don't think we should move up by trading both draft picks for Mario. Should have been clearer.

So just for the record, I think we should try and get an impact player for offense and defense. #15 for RB/TE if Davis falls, and #22 for DE/DT.

[DBroncos4life]

I know that everyone thinks that Hayward is avg, but keep in mind he did have 2 sacks against Manning and he did beat his guy vs Pitt 2 times for a sack as well. Who here would have loved to see a two sack game against Pitt in the playoffs? Also he did play a very good game against Indy with us two years ago and he played well in the playoffs this year. 1 sack and a FF vs Tom Brady.

[Rascal]

I say offer our 22nd to the Saints for Will Smith.

The bust factor with Kiwi and Tamli is too high IMO.

Yeah I'm dreaming but it sure is a good one.

[DBroncos4life]

I say offer our 22nd to the Saints for Will Smith.

The bust factor with Kiwi and Tamli is too high IMO.

Yeah I'm dreaming but it sure is a good one.
He was the guy I wanted instead of DJ.

[Rascal]

I know that everyone thinks that Hayward is avg, but keep in mind he did have 2 sacks against Manning and he did beat his guy vs Pitt 2 times for a sack as well. Who here would have loved to see a two sack game against Pitt in the playoffs? Also he did play a very good game against Indy with us two years ago and he played well in the playoffs this year. 1 sack and a FF vs Tom Brady.

He is better then he is given credit for around here, but with those DT's he isn't going to face double teams. If he didn't succeed in that situation he really was overrated. As is I think he is slightly overrated/overpaid.

[Popps]

I know that everyone thinks that Hayward is avg, but keep in mind he did have 2 sacks against Manning and he did beat his guy vs Pitt 2 times for a sack as well. Who here would have loved to see a two sack game against Pitt in the playoffs? Also he did play a very good game against Indy with us two years ago and he played well in the playoffs this year. 1 sack and a FF vs Tom Brady.

Great points.

I can't recall the last time one of our guys just lined up against someone one on one... and just flat out beat them.

[Rascal]

He was the guy I wanted instead of DJ.

I think we got DJ at a good spot but in hindsight (the addition of a midget and our DE issues) getting Smith would have been prudent.

The guy is getting 8 sacks a year and is solid against the run.

[Atlas]

How many Defenses with good pass rushes can you name that are ineffective? But on the other hand, denver, buffalo and many teams in the past have had great linebackers and stopped the run but were very poor defenses.

.

That post made little sense. You know if you ask every D coordinator in the league they will say their first goal is to stop the run. Stopping the run is way more important than rushing the passer. If you stop the run and make them pass your pass defense will improve because they know the other team can't run the ball.

You didn't actually say that Denver's defense sucked did you?? They had one of the best defenses in the league last year. True they were missing a great pass rusher but in no way did their defense suck.

This is proving my point. The most important players on the Defense are the LBs. If you have great LBs you are on your way to a great defense. The LBs are more important than a pass rushing end because even great pass rushing ends only get 15 sacks or so, great LBs are a force on every play.

All that being said Denver needs a pass rushing end to complete their team.

[DBroncos4life]

He is better then he is given credit for around here, but with those DT's he isn't going to face double teams. If he didn't succeed in that situation he really was overrated. As is I think he is slightly overrated/overpaid.
Maybe but if Warren was doing as good as we believe and the way Pryce moved down to cause trouble its safe to think that Hayward could have done well here just like he did the year before. Granted we couldn't have paid that much for him but I just don't understand why people think he could be replaced that easy.

[Rascal]

Maybe but if Warren was doing as good as we believe and the way Pryce moved down to cause trouble its safe to think that Hayward could have done well here just like he did the year before. Granted we couldn't have paid that much for him but I just don't understand why people think he could be replaced that easy.

Pryce was never going to move back down to DT after his back issues. He flat out refused too.

I think people primarily expected Pryce to be able to put up 8+ sacks a year. Obviously that didn't pan out. If it did then it was smart move in not paying him.

[DBroncos4life]

Pryce was never going to move back down to DT after his back issues. He flat out refused too.

I think people primarily expected Pryce to be able to put up 8+ sacks a year. Obviously that didn't pan out. If it did then it was smart move in not paying him.
No I didn't say that. He rotates down to DT to cause problems. He still would be the LDE.

[Rascal]

No I didn't say that. He rotates down to DT to cause problems. He still would be the LDE.

But he wasn't going to play there very much so either you would be sitting Pryce or Heyward a large % of the time and for the amount of money they were making you can't afford to sit them.

[DBroncos4life]

But he wasn't going to play there very much so either you would be sitting Pryce or Heyward a large % of the time and for the amount of money they were making you can't afford to sit them.
Hayward is a RDE in our system, he has more speed and thats who Pryce replaced at RDE. Pryce would have had to stay at LDE.

[Rascal]

Hayward is a RDE in our system, he has more speed and thats who Pryce replaced at RDE. Pryce would have had to stay at LDE.

Pryce wouldn't play LDE with his back. I remember mediator or wabbit saying something similar to this earlier that the Broncos were forced to play him at RDE because he couldn't/wouldn't play any other position.

[DBroncos4life]

Pryce wouldn't play LDE with his back. I remember mediator or wabbit saying something similar to this earlier that the Broncos were forced to play him at RDE because he couldn't/wouldn't play any other position.
Thats news to me. We will see where he plays with the Ravens. My guess is his back is going to be healed and he will do things that he hasn't done here in years, like give more then 1 games work a year.

[Willynowei]

That post made little sense. You know if you ask every D coordinator in the league they will say their first goal is to stop the run. Stopping the run is way more important than rushing the passer. If you stop the run and make them pass your pass defense will improve because they know the other team can't run the ball.

You didn't actually say that Denver's defense sucked did you?? They had one of the best defenses in the league last year. True they were missing a great pass rusher but in no way did their defense suck.

This is proving my point. The most important players on the Defense are the LBs. If you have great LBs you are on your way to a great defense. The LBs are more important than a pass rushing end because even great pass rushing ends only get 15 sacks or so, great LBs are a force on every play.

All that being said Denver needs a pass rushing end to complete their team.


Okay first i think you interpreted my post wrong, i didnt say Denver was bad last year, but two years ago and buffalo last year.

My point is simple, games are won and lost in the trenches, and to be honest I will argue with you any day of the week that the linebacker position is inferior compared to the Defensive Line or the Defensive back position.

On the point of Pass vs. Run defense, ANY NFL defense can be coached to be good against the run, you need big fat bodies and a lot of discipline. Against the pass you need speed and intelligence = uncoachable.

What did Parcells do last year? draft 2 pass rushing OLBs to improve his defense and move Nat Nugyen - a great tackling LB onto the bench.

Dungy invests in a passrush and that has done wonders with an otherwise weak Colts Defense.

Monte Kiffin and Jim Johnson, the 2 best D-coordinators focus on the pass as well.

No one is arguing that stopping the run is not important. Instead I'm simply saying, when you draft, you draft for pass rush, pass coverage, disruption in teh passing game. When you coach, you can coach run.

Its like teaching a shooting guard defense in basketball. Anyone can learn defense in the NBA, its the talent on offense that can't be found. A good coach can give you a run defense instantly = ala Ray Rhodes. Pass defense requires talent. Thats my point.

But to say that the LB position is somehow more important than the D-line, you are kidding yourself. Any pair of DTs can make a group of linebackers look like superstars.

[yavoon]

That post made little sense. You know if you ask every D coordinator in the league they will say their first goal is to stop the run. Stopping the run is way more important than rushing the passer. If you stop the run and make them pass your pass defense will improve because they know the other team can't run the ball.

You didn't actually say that Denver's defense sucked did you?? They had one of the best defenses in the league last year. True they were missing a great pass rusher but in no way did their defense suck.

This is proving my point. The most important players on the Defense are the LBs. If you have great LBs you are on your way to a great defense. The LBs are more important than a pass rushing end because even great pass rushing ends only get 15 sacks or so, great LBs are a force on every play.

All that being said Denver needs a pass rushing end to complete their team.

so thats why ends are getting smaller and quicker and some teams will play w/ 2 ends under 270 lbs. because they're all desperate to stop the run first.

cliche's do not a strategy make.