Now that you've picked-up your jaw off the floor

[Garcia Bronco]

Do you feel bad for doubting? :)

[Garcia Bronco]

You can admit it....it's not public.

[Rohirrim]

I didn't. Doubt.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Repeat after me:

I believe in the plan.

I believe in the plan

I believe in the plan

[Taco John]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

My only doubts about this season are doubts of parity. I think we've got a playoff team for certain. I think we'll be equally as competitive as we were last year, barring some major deal which brings in a playmaker on offense, and a playmaker on defense.

[DBroncos4life]

maybe you should have had another option for the people that didnt' doubt.

[Play2win]

Never Doubted...

:USA: :Broncos: IN SHANAHAN WE TRUST :Broncos: :USA:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1016477#post1016477

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Isn't this thread premature? It's a great deal for the future as Taco said but you still haven't acquired any players of note this offseason.

[Garcia Bronco]

You guys know what I'm talking about.

Is this FO great or what?

[DBroncos4life]

Isn't this thread premature? It's a great deal for the future as Taco said but you still haven't acquired any players of note this offseason.
Well Lang is no Carlos Hall but we will make due.

[Garcia Bronco]

Isn't this thread premature? It's a great deal for the future as Taco said but you still haven't acquired any players of note this offseason.


Whaa?? Check again ace.

But it's the move...not the players in this case. The jury on the draft picks we get or don't get will be out for some time.

[12th man]

I never doubt the mastermind. I suported Maurice clarrette when we first drafted him. If he wasn't such a **** up he could have been a good rb for us. but this was a great move. Shanahan for president!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No, and there's still a chance he could blow both picks by trading both picks to move up

[DBroncos4life]

No, and there's still a chance he could blow both picks by trading both picks to move up
While most of the time I would agree with that but if we could do it and have it only cost us our two first rounders and some how we landed Mario Williams and he does every bit as good as Peppers did his rookie year then its ok with me.

[SoCalBronco]

I doubted The Plan 2.0.

Shanny owned today. Much props.

However, as Herc noted, he can still blow the draft.

Its an even numbered year, so that will help, but the "Plan" will be evaluated better after the draft and any other possible trades that go down.

This was a masterstroke of genius though.

[BombsOverBaghdad]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

My only doubts about this season are doubts of parity. I think we've got a playoff team for certain. I think we'll be equally as competitive as we were last year, barring some major deal which brings in a playmaker on offense, and a playmaker on defense.

Sorry Taco, I disagree.
We are missing a game breaker on the O and a stud at DE. No matter how orange our glasses are we cannot say that either D. Williams or LenDale would not have made a big difference in our O last year. And I would also argue that we will find a defensive contributor at #22 that will improve our overall play.
Shanny is nails

[Vegas_Bronco]

Let's see, whoooo could we be courting.....we lost Trev, our sacks were lower than low, we grabbed the chance to sign a good run stopping DE (brown) - I'd say we want a DE pass rusher at 15! I like the trade, but I'd rather have Abraham (less the guaranteed money - dude is in his 6th year with 3 pro bowl years). THIS PICK IS ALL ABOUT THAT SPEED DE!!! forget the qb or the rb.

And I agree, this thread is waaaaay to early - but then what doesn't come early here when you have half the Mane pissed at our FA inactivity and the other half grasping for reasons to rebuff them and leaning upon a successfull season. Thank goodness we have something to talk about that is progressive - eh?

[Popps]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

My only doubts about this season are doubts of parity. I think we've got a playoff team for certain. I think we'll be equally as competitive as we were last year, barring some major deal which brings in a playmaker on offense, and a playmaker on defense.

Exactly.

What does moving up a few spots in the draft prove? "Doubting?" I "doubt" we've got any decent d-linemen and I doubt we'll get an impact guy at #15.

Big deal. We bumped up 7 spots. I mean, I guess it's cool. Depends what they do with the picks. Isn't this supposed to be the deepest draft in the history of mankind? Shouldn't we be bummed that we're losing extra picks?

Point being, it's fine... but it's not like bringing in a guy we know can play... which is what we need to do on both sides of the ball. The odds are greatly against us finding the guy to put us over the top next season in THIS year's draft.

[Garcia Bronco]

I don't think you can bank on a rookie to be an impact at all. They aren't used to the tempo...the life style...the number of games...the new found freedoms...

[Vegas_Bronco]

...wait, check that previous post, maybe we're looking for a kicker and the qb is just a smoke screen to fake those raiders out.

[baja]

Exactly.

What does moving up a few spots in the draft prove? "Doubting?" I "doubt" we've got any decent d-linemen and I doubt we'll get an impact guy at #15.

Big deal. We bumped up 7 spots. I mean, I guess it's cool. Depends what they do with the picks. Isn't this supposed to be the deepest draft in the history of mankind? Shouldn't we be bummed that we're losing extra picks?

Point being, it's fine... but it's not like bringing in a guy we know can play... which is what we need to do on both sides of the ball. The odds are greatly against us finding the guy to put us over the top next season in THIS year's draft.

We bumped from 29 to 15 - 14 spots

[ludo21]

[QUOTE=Vegas_Bronco]Let's see, whoooo could we be courting.....we lost Trev, our sacks were lower than low, we grabbed the chance to sign a good run stopping DE (brown) - I'd say we want a DE pass rusher at 15! I like the trade, but I'd rather have Abraham (less the guaranteed money - dude is in his 6th year with 3 pro bowl years). THIS PICK IS ALL ABOUT THAT SPEED DE!!! forget the qb or the rb.

[QUOTE]


No way we spend #15 on a DE. He moved up for a reason, possibly for DW2 or Lendale.


I love Shanny and Ted. They once again prove they are great.!Booya!

[RMT]

We bumped from 29 to 15 - 14 spots

That's the same math I'm using ...

[Broncojef]

We didn't bump 7 spots we bumped 14 and yes it is a big deal. The deal places us in a position to trade up for Vernon Davis or Mario Williams if we so choose or to stay pat and grab a talent like Bunkley/LenDale sooner. There is no downside to this move. We have like 10 draft picks I would much sooner tradeup to get say 5 quality guys that may make our roster than the normal draft fodder we usually end up with. Bravo Shanny!!!

[BombsOverBaghdad]

Exactly.

What does moving up a few spots in the draft prove? "Doubting?" I "doubt" we've got any decent d-linemen and I doubt we'll get an impact guy at #15.

Big deal. We bumped up 7 spots. I mean, I guess it's cool. Depends what they do with the picks. Isn't this supposed to be the deepest draft in the history of mankind? Shouldn't we be bummed that we're losing extra picks?

Point being, it's fine... but it's not like bringing in a guy we know can play... which is what we need to do on both sides of the ball. The odds are greatly against us finding the guy to put us over the top next season in THIS year's draft.


Did I miss something? We moved from #29 to #15 -- 14 critical spots!!
And I disagree, we now should be able to pick one of the 2 stud running backs in this draft

[BombsOverBaghdad]

We didn't bump 7 spots we bumped 14 and yes it is a big deal. The deal places us in a position to trade up for Vernon Davis or Mario Williams if we so choose or to stay pat and grab a talent like Bunkley/LenDale sooner. There is no downside to this move. We have like 10 draft picks I would much sooner tradeup to get say 5 quality guys that may make our roster than the normal draft fodder we usually end up with. Bravo Shanny!!!

That's right - Jef has this in proper perspective.

[2KBack]

I was in wait and see mode before, and I remain in that mode. I am totally impressed by the front office putting themselves in good positions though.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I don't think you can bank on a rookie to be an impact at all. They aren't used to the tempo...the life style...the number of games...the new found freedoms...

Rookies can be HUGE in contributory value but typically excel where great depth or shortcomings were revealed in the teams previous years - Cadillac was great for the Buccs, Shawn Merriman amazing year, but the positions that could be of greatest immediate success for the Broncos future rookies seem to be filled with seasoned vets that are pretty damn good already. I agree that the areas we need the most improvement are not immediate success positions for rookies. We may be positioning ourselves to grab some more trade potential with the #15 pick - but then, that is not the exciting way to put it nor does it seem appealing in the slightest.

[Popps]

Did I miss something? We moved from #29 to #15 -- 14 critical spots!!
And I disagree, we now should be able to pick one of the 2 stud running backs in this draft

My bad, doing the math from the 22nd pick. The rest of the sentiments stand.

We can pick a stud RB just about anywhere. If we package both picks to make a run at Williams, I'll be thrilled. Otherwise, it's just a wait and see... and very unlikely we'll find a difference-maker.

[Vegas_Bronco]

My bad, doing the math from the 22nd pick. The rest of the sentiments stand.

We can pick a stud RB just about anywhere. If we package both picks to make a run at Williams, I'll be thrilled. Otherwise, it's just a wait and see... and very unlikely we'll find a difference-maker.

All good Popps, it's the first time I've seen so much interest in math on the board - damn bunch of marker happy math teachers in here - Hilarious!

[Atlas]

My bad, doing the math from the 22nd pick. The rest of the sentiments stand.

We can pick a stud RB just about anywhere. If we package both picks to make a run at Williams, I'll be thrilled. Otherwise, it's just a wait and see... and very unlikely we'll find a difference-maker.

What's got into you?? This is a huge trade. It is a master stroke of genius, to simply not even admit it proves you just can't admit that maybe you jumped ship a little early this year. You have been complaining about the fact that Denver hasn't done anything and then they move up 14 spots for very little and you still complain.

[BroncoBuff]

Do you feel bad for doubting? :)

I am still concerend, but for different reasons.

What if the Falcons or Redskins file a police report? Would that mean when we go to play Atlanta or Washington that Shanny would have to stay behind for fear of being arrested .... a la Roman Polanski?

I don't like the implications of arrest warrants out for Shanahan ....

[Tha rock]

...wait, check that previous post, maybe we're looking for a kicker and the qb is just a smoke screen to fake those raiders out.


ok????

[Crushaholic]

I was already thinking we were targeting the draft to improve and it looks that way. Good job, Shanahan.

[Popps]

What's got into you?? This is a huge trade. It is a master stroke of genius, to simply not even admit it proves you just can't admit that maybe you jumped ship a little early this year. You have been complaining about the fact that Denver hasn't done anything and then they move up 14 spots for very little and you still complain.

Huh?

"Jumped ship?" I don't think so.

When someone around here can tell me how the 15th pick in the draft is going to fill the gaping holes this team has... I'm more than willing to listen.

Until then, you seem to be making the same mistake a lot of other people around here are making... assuming that because we bumped up a few spots in a draft, we've "proven" something.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fun... but if you think this is some kind of vindication for us sitting on our hands thus far, you're mistaken. If memory serves... the last two mid-first round picks we had were Deltha O'neal and Ashley Lelie. Not exactly world-beaters.

[BroncoBuff]

C'mon, Popps .... this was HUGE.

[Odysseus]

I'm going to wait until the ink is dry and see what we bought. I think this is proof of life for the doubters. I never doubted. If they get Vince Young I am upgrading my seasons tickets. This is kind of a bet against that happening.

[Garcia Bronco]

I am still concerend, but for different reasons.

What if the Falcons or Redskins file a police report? Would that mean when we go to play Atlanta or Washington that Shanny would have to stay behind for fear of being arrested .... a la Roman Polanski?

I don't like the implications of arrest warrants out for Shanahan ....

LOL

[Rock Chalk]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

My only doubts about this season are doubts of parity. I think we've got a playoff team for certain. I think we'll be equally as competitive as we were last year, barring some major deal which brings in a playmaker on offense, and a playmaker on defense.
Well, Darrent Williams went a long way to making a difference as a rookie last year for us. I dont think he was the reason we got to the AFC Championship game, but he is an example of a rookie making an immediate impact.

My doubts are about the defense, yet again. We lost our best DLineman in Pryce, even if he was crust. He is still better than anyone on our roster now. We have not addressed this except the signings of some scrubs. We are supposedly looking to bring in a QB at 15 (thogh Im not buying on that bull****).

Im going to love seeing Jake get bashed yet another year after putting up more than 20 points on the board only to let the defense get off scott free after giving up more than 30 points.

[OrangeShadow]

I havent doubted yet.

[x123z]

Pryce was not our best defensive lineman last year. It was Warren. Win lose or draw we are not standing pat.

[Jason in LA]

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.



I've been trying to tell people that. What ever holes the team has before the draft will be there after the draft. They can draft DEs with both of those first round picks and they'll still have a hole at that position...for this year.

[Rock Chalk]

Pryce was not our best defensive lineman last year. It was Warren. Win lose or draw we are not standing pat.
Really? What exactly did Warren do besides line up offsides a lot?

4 sacks?

[broncosteven]

I voted great

Te only place I see a rookie making a contribution this year is on the Defense (usually at LB) or at RB.

Shanny does not seem to trust Rookies anywhere else, if he grabbed a stud DE I bet he would give him playing time this year but even if he found a way to land a top RB I bet the kid would start out #3 on the depth chart & work his way up & have to earn his starting job much like Portis had to & Portis was our highest RB pick in Shanny's tenure.

Either way I hope both these picks (if we keep them) make it to the field by the 4th game of this year this season & stick.

[Tom A Hawk]

Isn't this thread premature? It's a great deal for the future as Taco said but you still haven't acquired any players of note this offseason.

and our Chiefs have done what?

[Odysseus]

and our Chiefs have done what?

ROFL!

[Rascal]

I'll wait till I see how they use it in the draft.

The potential to **** it up is still there unfortunately.

[ROYC75]

Good move ? Just because Atlanta was stupid ? Stupid is as stupid does, Shanarat just took advantage and came out ahead .

It was a good on his part. Now if he doesn't do something stupid and pick a couple of bust in the 1st round.

[broncosteven]

Good move ? Just because Atlanta was stupid ? Stupid is as stupid does, Shanarat just took advantage and came out ahead .

It was a good on his part. Now if he doesn't do something stupid and pick a couple of bust in the 1st round.


Bitter Cheef fans! This means this was an even better move!

Meanwhile Hot Carl sits on his butt hoping Ty Law will come to play for the Herminator...

[Darkhawk24]

Good move ? Just because Atlanta was stupid ? Stupid is as stupid does, Shanarat just took advantage and came out ahead .

It was a good on his part. Now if he doesn't do something stupid and pick a couple of bust in the 1st round.


Well we can't all be like Carl Peterson.... Uhh

[bendog]

I think it's huge. I don't think Hali will be there at 22. I'm not sure he'll be there at 15. Bunkley? I don't recall seeing him play. I don't recall seeing Nagata play either, but he's a pretty low risk to bust, so moving up wouldn't necessarily be a bone headed move, but I'd rather go for the highest ranked dlineman on their board at 15 and keep the 22 to just take the highest ranked guy left on their board regardless of position.

[bendog]

Bitter Cheef fans! This means this was an even better move!

Meanwhile Hot Carl sits on his butt hoping Ty Law will come to play for the Herminator...
And let's richardson walk

[Rohirrim]

Good move ? Just because Atlanta was stupid ? Stupid is as stupid does, Shanarat just took advantage and came out ahead .

It was a good on his part. Now if he doesn't do something stupid and pick a couple of bust in the 1st round.

LOL Like Aesop's fox said, "The grapes are sour."

[ND Bronco Fan]

An interesting tidbit is that we have not spend up to the cap yet, lets say they do not this year and the Salary Cap expands again next year we should be in a real good position financially for once. Granted with the expansion of the cap some waterheads (Redskins) will set an stupid ceiling on 3rd tier players and it possibly will put us in the same position again not overpaying for average talent. I would rather have no one than overpay for average players.

[Popps]

C'mon, Popps .... this was HUGE.

Can't make myself much more clear than I already have.

It's cool, it's fun...it's "huge." It'll make draft day that much more entertaining. I'm all for it.

Conversely, it's not a substitute for bringing in proven players via free agency, which is what we should be doing with the gaping holes we have on this team.

So, bumping up from late to middle first round in a draft is hardly cause for the "I told you so" crowd to start pointing fingers, especially considering our first round draft history.

It'll be fun, and hopefully we'll get a guy who can contribute and develop into a future star. Meanwhile, we still need impact players THIS year.

[bendog]

hmmm, sort of like how shanny got that linebacker from Miami he moved to get Gold back on the field.

[dbfan4life]

Huh?

"Jumped ship?" I don't think so.

When someone around here can tell me how the 15th pick in the draft is going to fill the gaping holes this team has... I'm more than willing to listen.

Until then, you seem to be making the same mistake a lot of other people around here are making... assuming that because we bumped up a few spots in a draft, we've "proven" something.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fun... but if you think this is some kind of vindication for us sitting on our hands thus far, you're mistaken. If memory serves... the last two mid-first round picks we had were Deltha O'neal and Ashley Lelie. Not exactly world-beaters.


What gaping holes? Gaping holes is what I would use to describe the KC defense. We definitely have some holes to fill but what team doesn't? We are not in as bad of shape as you think we are. I've never been a big supporter of using the draft to fill needs immediately but I still think there is plenty of time to do that. Moving up as far as we did and still having a 2nd #1 may set us up for something huge on draft day. I'm very happy with the trade.

[Mediator12]

Can't make myself much more clear than I already have.

It's cool, it's fun...it's "huge." It'll make draft day that much more entertaining. I'm all for it.

Conversely, it's not a substitute for bringing in proven players via free agency, which is what we should be doing with the gaping holes we have on this team.

So, bumping up from late to middle first round in a draft is hardly cause for the "I told you so" crowd to start pointing fingers, especially considering our first round draft history.

It'll be fun, and hopefully we'll get a guy who can contribute and develop into a future star. Meanwhile, we still need impact players THIS year.

Agreed to all the above, except they have done an exemplary job in the first round considering they have not been in the top half of it since when?

As for Proven players, they are different than playmakers. Teams also Overreact to potential in the FA market too, just like they do the draft. This can lead to above average players getting elite level contracts especially at Prime positions like DE. Look at Carter, Heyward, Wistrom, etc. from the last three years. Above average players who got paid well beyond their value.

For once, I hope they take the best DL talent at one of those positions and I would Love to see a guy like Mark Anderson DE (Alabama) get drafted in the second round for a speed Rusher to develop. The DL in Denver has been an after thought for too long with the immense amount of resources wrapped up in Trevor Pryce's contract. I hope they get some Young Guys to supplement the Veterans who are holding the fort in the meantime.

[Popps]

What gaping holes? Gaping holes is what I would use to describe the KC defense. We definitely have some holes to fill but what team doesn't? We are not in as bad of shape as you think we are. I've never been a big supporter of using the draft to fill needs immediately but I still think there is plenty of time to do that. Moving up as far as we did and still having a 2nd #1 may set us up for something huge on draft day. I'm very happy with the trade.

I'm glad you're happy with the trade.

I'm happy with the trade, too.

Once again, that's note the point I was making.

[Popps]

Agreed to all the above, except they have done an exemplary job in the first round considering they have not been in the top half of it since when?

The last few high picks I recall us having were O'Neal, Lelie and Foster. All yawners.

We haven't drafted a star in the first round since Al Wilson. I've already posted our first round draft pick history here a couple of times, and it's marginal at best.

[freak6]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

It does if we move up for Bush. He's a leader with integrity...lol

[bendog]

Hey, we coulda beat Pitt with some of the calls that went against the seachickens!

[Taco John]

Well, Darrent Williams went a long way to making a difference as a rookie last year for us. I dont think he was the reason we got to the AFC Championship game, but he is an example of a rookie making an immediate impact.

My doubts are about the defense, yet again. We lost our best DLineman in Pryce, even if he was crust. He is still better than anyone on our roster now. We have not addressed this except the signings of some scrubs. We are supposedly looking to bring in a QB at 15 (thogh Im not buying on that bull****).

Im going to love seeing Jake get bashed yet another year after putting up more than 20 points on the board only to let the defense get off scott free after giving up more than 30 points.


We got out of Darrent Williams what I thought we'd get out of him... Roughly ten weeks. That's what I expect out of rookies whether they are considered "impact" rookies or not. Anything more than 10 weeks is gravy.

[Taco John]

Im going to love seeing Jake get bashed yet another year after putting up more than 20 points on the board only to let the defense get off scott free after giving up more than 30 points.



How many Interceptions do you have Jake throwing in this scenario. Our defense doesn't give up that kind of change without the offense doing it first.

[Rock Chalk]

How many Interceptions do you have Jake throwing in this scenario. Our defense doesn't give up that kind of change without the offense doing it first.
Jake threw less than 10 picks last year buddy.

Nice try though.

Someday, someone, somwhere, will knock some sense into you. I just hope I get to see it.

[Taco John]

Jake threw less than 10 picks last year buddy.

Nice try though.

Someday, someone, somwhere, will knock some sense into you. I just hope I get to see it.


Nothing you said there refuted a single thing that I said. But you get an A in the typing just to hear yourself type category.

[Mediator12]

The last few high picks I recall us having were O'Neal, Lelie and Foster. All yawners.

We haven't drafted a star in the first round since Al Wilson. I've already posted our first round draft pick history here a couple of times, and it's marginal at best.

Mid teens are high picks to you. Not to me. Barely being in the top Half for O'Neal in a super weak draft does not qualify as anywhere near a High Pick to me either.

I also have posted our first round draft history compared to some other teams and took into account where their Stars were drafted. The Broncos hit on as many starters in the league as any other team and had a much lower Bust rate than the league average picking at the highest average draft position of any team the last five years. Almost all of the other Stars were top 16 picks of which Denver has had One who has played in two pro bowls.

I agree that I wish they had used their picks better, but what real fan does not. We all have our expectations that are likely to not match with what the team does.

That being said, the draft is a huge crapshoot and no matter how many categories are evaluated, less than 50% of the first rounders still play for their current teams after four years. Everyone has their opinions on players coming out, but the truth is NO ONE knows how they are going to perform at the next level until they get there.

[freak6]

Our defense was 3rd in the league in scoring.

Gaping holes?

The loss in Miami was a fluke. Take that game out, and the mistake in the blown coverage in KC, we win both those games. Our team is ROCK SOLID.

The problem I have with our team, is that the rocks are gonna start falling apart. The foundation for the team is the Oline, and they (LEPSIS AND NALEN just resigned) are way up there in age. Lynch is too, even though he had a really good season. Moving up in the draft to get us 1 maybe 2 bonafied contributors was a great move, and Shanny pulled off a coup with this move imo.

[Rock Chalk]

Everyone has their opinions on players coming out, but the truth is NO ONE knows how they are going to perform at the next level until they get there.
Hence, Darrent Williams going in round 2. TD going in round 7 as well as Nash going in Round 1, Leaf going ahead of Manning, etc.

[Rock Chalk]

Our defense was 3rd in the league in scoring.

Gaping holes?

The loss in Miami was a fluke. Take that game out, and the mistake in the blown coverage in KC, we win both those games. Our team is ROCK SOLID.

The problem I have with our team, is that the rocks are gonna start falling apart. The foundation for the team is the Oline, and they (LEPSIS AND NALEN just resigned) are way up there in age. Lynch is too, even though he had a really good season. Moving up in the draft to get us 1 maybe 2 bonafied contributors was a great move, and Shanny pulled off a coup with this move imo.
Bonafide contributors? Really?

I dont watch college ball but I have heard numerous people on this site say that this year you can get first round talent in round two.

So moving from 29th to 15th isnt that big of a deal, especially since we are packaging another pick.

Whoever we get, and I certainly hope its not a TE, but whoever we get, is not a bonafide contributor that is going to help the team until the season starts and he is playing.

IF he plays his rookie year.

For every rookie that starts and is a bonafide star in his rookie year, there are about 100 that dont.

[orange 4 life]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

My only doubts about this season are doubts of parity. I think we've got a playoff team for certain. I think we'll be equally as competitive as we were last year, barring some major deal which brings in a playmaker on offense, and a playmaker on defense.

....and that my friend is why this move concerns me.

we're moving up in the draft......for what exactly?

we wont likely get an impact player for '06, and with that in mind this just doesnt make alot of sense.
when you have a team that was one poorly played home game away from a superbowl i dont think the FUTURE is what we should be thinking about.

like last offseason, this team is not that far away.
this team (as it ended last season) was ONE playmaker on offense away
from probably being in the superbowl.

why we're not pushing to bring in that player i dont know.

ill try to remain optimistic and wait to judge, but im concerned.

we need another receiver to compliment rod and ash and give plummer one more solid target.
do that and i think we've got a pretty darn good chance.
pass on that and i just dont know.

[Cito Pelon]

This is one of the most ideal situations I've seen any team in for a long time. If this FO/ownership was new to the pro's, or new together, I'd be concerned that they'd be infighting, or giddy over their wealth of picks, but that isn't the case. I'll be shocked if there isn't 2-3 stud players added to the team in this draft. There's no good reason to overpay stud FA's when you can add stud draft picks to an already solid roster. And in reality, without Champ restructuring, there was a choice to be made this year - sign big money FA's and drop down out of round 1; or do not sign big money FA's and move up in round 1.

I like moving up in round 1. If the FO is confident they can get 2-3 studs out of this draft, that's fine with me.

[freak6]

we're moving up in the draft......for what exactly?

this team (as it ended last season) was ONE playmaker on offense away
from probably being in the superbowl. why we're not pushing to bring in that player i dont know.

There are plenty of players that can come in and start for our team at more than a few positions with the 15. Especially at S.

Maybe TE.

DE.

Or we could move up, swap both #1s and get my guy named Reggie Bush. If he is on the board when the Saints pick, it might be doable. That is the guy I want, and I know everyone is sick of hearing it, but when people say they want a playmaker that can "get us over the hump", he is the MAN.

I don't see a hump, we could have beaten Pittsburgh if we get one of those turnovers that we blew.

[Mediator12]

Bonafide contributors? Really?

I dont watch college ball but I have heard numerous people on this site say that this year you can get first round talent in round two.

So moving from 29th to 15th isnt that big of a deal, especially since we are packaging another pick.

Whoever we get, and I certainly hope its not a TE, but whoever we get, is not a bonafide contributor that is going to help the team until the season starts and he is playing.

IF he plays his rookie year.

For every rookie that starts and is a bonafide star in his rookie year, there are about 100 that dont.

Very true alec.

The deal is this though. There are some excellent guys with high floors in the top twenty or so picks in this draft. Those guys rarely BUST and often become the Stars and contributors right away.

The guys that always scare me are the ones with a high ceiling. You know the ones left over who are round one or two types depending on who takes them. This is what Denver has had available to draft the last five years. The rest of the best that may be good starters but are never going to be Pro bowlers let alone All-pro considerations.

For every lower round Star that captures the publics eye Because they are so RARE, there are 5 top 10 picks, 8 top 15, 9 first rounders, and 15 top three rounders.

I am excited because this team has the Talent to start a rookie or two and cover that up for awhile to let them develop. Just like they have done the last two years. Then, by the playoffs, they might actually be able to make a difference like Heath Miller and Lofa Tatupu did in the superbowl last year.

[Cito Pelon]

....and that my friend is why this move concerns me.

we're moving up in the draft......for what exactly?

we wont likely get an impact player for '06, and with that in mind this just doesnt make alot of sense.
when you have a team that was one poorly played home game away from a superbowl i dont think the FUTURE is what we should be thinking about.

like last offseason, this team is not that far away.
this team (as it ended last season) was ONE playmaker on offense away
from probably being in the superbowl.

why we're not pushing to bring in that player i dont know.

ill try to remain optimistic and wait to judge, but im concerned.

we need another receiver to compliment rod and ash and give plummer one more solid target.
do that and i think we've got a pretty darn good chance.
pass on that and i just dont know.

I think you're working yourself up for no good reason. Shanny has been pushing to get playmakers in the draft. And he already has playmakers in his pocket. Champ, DW, Bell, Dayne, Lelie, Smith, Duke, Plummer, Al, DJ. Those guys aren't a bunch of slouches. They're not an all-star team, but they do know how to play football.

I don't think the team needs an impact player for '06 in this draft. The team will be just fine without TO or Abraham, Carter, McGinest, Culpepper, Milloy. Moulds maybe would be a good addition if the price is right. Gonna be tough to sign him, 2 1st rounders, 2nd and 3rd. Unless Champ restructures, and I think it's too late for that.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

We haven't drafted a star in the first round since Al Wilson. I've already posted our first round draft pick history here a couple of times, and it's marginal at best.

From where they've drafted since Shanahan got here, no it's not. They're not in position to draft elite players, so to actually find a couple in the bottom of the 1st is pretty damn good.

[orange 4 life]

There are plenty of players that can come in and start for our team at more than a few positions with the 15. Especially at S.

Maybe TE.

DE.

Or we could move up, swap both #1s and get my guy named Reggie Bush. If he is on the board when the Saints pick, it might be doable. That is the guy I want, and I know everyone is sick of hearing it, but when people say they want a playmaker that can "get us over the hump", he is the MAN.

I don't see a hump, we could have beaten Pittsburgh if we get one of those turnovers that we blew.

i agree with that completely, but you also have to remember we lost a leader in anderson and our best d-lineman in pryce.

yeah, we shouldve beat pitt anyway.
dont remind me ;D

my point was just that a top free agent is extremely LIKELY to make an impact right away (especially at the wr position) while a draft pick (especially at wr) is not.
if we can get a top notch safety or d-lineman with those picks then ill be plased, but that still wont give us that one more playmaker on offense that i think we need.
we may not NEED it, but it would likely put us over the top, especially considering our offense was pretty damn good last year anyway.

as for bush, that would be a dream come true, since he could line up in multiple formations and help us in multiple ways.
i'd love to see him here, but i guess im just not seeing how thats gonna happen.

[Cito Pelon]

I don't see a hump, we could have beaten Pittsburgh if we get one of those turnovers that we blew.

i agree. This is a solid roster already, and there will be some good players added in the draft.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

our best d-lineman in pryce.


Pryce had one good game last year, he was not the team's best DL.

[freak6]

if we can get a top notch safety or d-lineman with those picks then ill be plased, but that still wont give us that one more playmaker on offense that i think we need.

I agree, but I think if Tatum gets the majority of the carries, he and our playaction passes will be our big play makers.

A big concern has gotta be at TE though. Putzier made some huge plays, and IMO our double strongside TE formation was our best last year.

[Rohirrim]

You're also ignoring that the second this FA period opened, Snyder the Jerk once again blew the market open. I'm glad Shanahan & Co. stuck to the budget. This was an overheated market, to say the least. Also, there are draft picks who DO make an immediate impact. Rothlisberger, Ware, Polamalu, Shockey, etc. The trick is to pick the right guy. Plus, you can get the ripple effect. Maybe you get Hali and puts on a good enough rush to free up some up your vets and your overall sack numbers go up. Or, you get a guy like Huff, your secondary coverage gets better and the QB is keeping the ball too long and your overall INTs and sacks go up. Or you get Lendale and your D isn't on the field as often. It's a team sport and obviously, the Broncos are not far from the top spot. A tweak here and there may be all it takes rather than trying to start with a whole new QB or something radical like that.

[BroncoInferno]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.

My only doubts about this season are doubts of parity. I think we've got a playoff team for certain. I think we'll be equally as competitive as we were last year, barring some major deal which brings in a playmaker on offense, and a playmaker on defense.

If we stay put and take LenDale or DW2, or move up further and select VD or Mario, we will absolutely get a first year impact.

[Cito Pelon]

I agree, but I think if Tatum gets the majority of the carries, he and our playaction passes will be our big play makers.

A big concern has gotta be at TE though. Putzier made some huge plays, and IMO our double strongside TE formation was our best last year.

I think the staff likes Duke, and I think he'll work out pretty good. Bell/Dayne/KJ/Sapp is a pretty good backfield. I won't be worried if that's the top four this season.

[Cito Pelon]

This is one of the most ideal situations I've seen any team in for a long time. If this FO/ownership was new to the pro's, or new together, I'd be concerned that they'd be infighting, or giddy over their wealth of picks, but that isn't the case. I'll be shocked if there isn't 2-3 stud players added to the team in this draft. There's no good reason to overpay stud FA's when you can add stud draft picks to an already solid roster. And in reality, without Champ restructuring, there was a choice to be made this year - sign big money FA's and drop down out of round 1; or do not sign big money FA's and move up in round 1.

I like moving up in round 1. If the FO is confident they can get 2-3 studs out of this draft, that's fine with me.

[rubaiyat]

Bonafide contributors? Really?

I dont watch college ball but I have heard numerous people on this site say that this year you can get first round talent in round two.

So moving from 29th to 15th isnt that big of a deal, especially since we are packaging another pick.

Whoever we get, and I certainly hope its not a TE, but whoever we get, is not a bonafide contributor that is going to help the team until the season starts and he is playing.

IF he plays his rookie year.

For every rookie that starts and is a bonafide star in his rookie year, there are about 100 that dont.

So there were only 3 star rooks from last year? I'd beg to differ.

[freak6]

I think the staff likes Duke, and I think he'll work out pretty good. Bell/Dayne/KJ/Sapp is a pretty good backfield. I won't be worried if that's the top four this season.

The staff might like Duke, but he isn't even starting in NFL Euro.

I want more 3 WR sets, with a quick TE (ie not Alexander), and Tatum in the backfield. Alexander is solid out of the I formation because he can block, but on 3rd and long, fagetaboutit.

[Garcia Bronco]

Can't make myself much more clear than I already have.

It's cool, it's fun...it's "huge." It'll make draft day that much more entertaining. I'm all for it.

Conversely, it's not a substitute for bringing in proven players via free agency, which is what we should be doing with the gaping holes we have on this team.

So, bumping up from late to middle first round in a draft is hardly cause for the "I told you so" crowd to start pointing fingers, especially considering our first round draft history.

It'll be fun, and hopefully we'll get a guy who can contribute and develop into a future star. Meanwhile, we still need impact players THIS year.


Here's the difference...not only did we move up half the field....but we have double the chance of getting a great player unlike years past.

[Garcia Bronco]

Agreed to all the above, except they have done an exemplary job in the first round considering they have not been in the top half of it since when?

As for Proven players, they are different than playmakers. Teams also Overreact to potential in the FA market too, just like they do the draft. This can lead to above average players getting elite level contracts especially at Prime positions like DE. Look at Carter, Heyward, Wistrom, etc. from the last three years. Above average players who got paid well beyond their value.

For once, I hope they take the best DL talent at one of those positions and I would Love to see a guy like Mark Anderson DE (Alabama) get drafted in the second round for a speed Rusher to develop. The DL in Denver has been an after thought for too long with the immense amount of resources wrapped up in Trevor Pryce's contract. I hope they get some Young Guys to supplement the Veterans who are holding the fort in the meantime.

We haven't picked in the top ten for close to 15 years I think.

[freak6]

Mobley was a high pick. Could have had Ray Lewis too.

[Garcia Bronco]

We got out of Darrent Williams what I thought we'd get out of him... Roughly ten weeks. That's what I expect out of rookies whether they are considered "impact" rookies or not. Anything more than 10 weeks is gravy.


Yep

[Garcia Bronco]

I hate the way people call the players 'studs'. It either sounds like they are going to an all male strip club or about to get impregnanted by a horse.

[bendog]

You guys expected DW to be able to step in and play better than average NLF level corner? dang. I thought he'd be ok at returning punts, but dang, Den is SET at corner for the next 3 years.

[broncosteven]

I hate the way people call the players 'studs'. It either sounds like they are going to an all male strip club or about to get impregnanted by a horse.


Doesn't the Stud horse do the Impregnating? I aint no cow hand but the male spreads his seed from what my daddy told me.

[Garcia Bronco]

Doesn't the Stud horse do the Impregnating? I aint no cow hand but the male spreads his seed from what my daddy told me.


I think if you re-read my post you'll see that's implied.

[broncosteven]

I think if you re-read my post you'll see that's implied.


About to get impregnated? that means the stud is taking it not giving it.

[Garcia Bronco]

About to get impregnated? that means the stud is taking it not giving it.


If the person using the word 'stud' was refering to themselves in 'third person'...then yes...you would be correct.

[Cito Pelon]

The staff might like Duke, but he isn't even starting in NFL Euro.

I want more 3 WR sets, with a quick TE (ie not Alexander), and Tatum in the backfield. Alexander is solid out of the I formation because he can block, but on 3rd and long, fagetaboutit.

Duke was sent to NFL Europe? That's news to me.

[Cito Pelon]

I hate the way people call the players 'studs'. It either sounds like they are going to an all male strip club or about to get impregnanted by a horse.

Studs actually say "studs."

Edit: Cut out the vicious stud stuff

[errand]

Doubting what?

I think this is a good move for the future, but I don't think it means too much for the 2006 season. I'm not a believer that a rookie is what seperates us from being an AFC Championship contender to a Superbowl winner.



You guys act like the only thing you can do with a 1st round pick is draft someone...did it ever occur to you that perhaps Mike (however unlikely) will trade one of the picks for an young up and coming player?

[maher_tyler]

Our defense was 3rd in the league in scoring.

Gaping holes?

The loss in Miami was a fluke. Take that game out, and the mistake in the blown coverage in KC, we win both those games. Our team is ROCK SOLID.

The problem I have with our team, is that the rocks are gonna start falling apart. The foundation for the team is the Oline, and they (LEPSIS AND NALEN just resigned) are way up there in age. Lynch is too, even though he had a really good season. Moving up in the draft to get us 1 maybe 2 bonafied contributors was a great move, and Shanny pulled off a coup with this move imo.


I agree...the only games i felt we were out played in were the Miami and Pittsburg games! I dont agree with the people saying we have "gapping holes" the biggest loss was Putz IMO and it wasn't even that big! I think Dayne will be better than Anderson and out of the top TE's in the draft who cant do better than Putz?! Pryce was getting old and with a good pass rushing DE from the draft and we'll be fine IMHO and was over paid! I think we'll go for a TE with the 15th and a DL with the 22nd...if we have those exact picks on draft day! With the rest of the picks i say we address S, OL, QB and DL.

[Atlas]

You guys act like the only thing you can do with a 1st round pick is draft someone...did it ever occur to you that perhaps Mike (however unlikely) will trade one of the picks for an young up and coming player?

Well fine!! Don't come in here half-cocked with half witted ideas!! Come in with some opinions and takes that just don't suck. Like who should Denver trade a first rounder for?? Well??? Throw something out there and see if it sticks. That post of yours was about the laziest, most condesending post I have ever read!!

OOOPS sorry if I sounded rude. I was thinking we were in the political forum ???

[maher_tyler]

Duke was sent to NFL Europe? That's news to me.

Go to the team web site more often.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5406

[BroncoBuff]

Can't make myself much more clear than I already have.

It's cool, it's fun...it's "huge." It'll make draft day that much more entertaining. I'm all for it.

Conversely, it's not a substitute for bringing in proven players via free agency, which is what we should be doing with the gaping holes we have on this team.

So, bumping up from late to middle first round in a draft is hardly cause for the "I told you so" crowd to start pointing fingers, especially considering our first round draft history.

It'll be fun, and hopefully we'll get a guy who can contribute and develop into a future star. Meanwhile, we still need impact players THIS year.

I don't DIS-agree with that, but I don't think anybody's saying "I told you so" either....

I'm gonna ask for about the 50th time ...
Does anybody have the points system NFL teams use to value draft picks? ? Anybody? ?


It's probably like the 2-point conversion card - something very simple.

If we get that points card, we can grade the trade in an un-biased way.

[BroncoBuff]

Go to the team web site more often.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5406

That is an EXCELLENT recap article, thx. I'm gonna post that as a thread...

[Kaylore]

I don't DIS-agree with that, but I don't think anybody's saying "I told you so" either....

I'm gonna ask for about the 50th time ...
Does anybody have the points system NFL teams use to value draft picks? ? Anybody? ?


It's probably like the 2-point conversion card - something very simple.

If we get that points card, we can grade the trade in an un-biased way.
Ask and Khan delivers:

http://www.theredzone.org/2005/draft/draftvaluechart.asp

[BroncoBuff]

Ask and Khan delivers:

http://www.theredzone.org/2005/draft/draftvaluechart.asp

BEAUTY!!! Khan is just like FedEx.

But now I have to guess what # we'll be in draft order next year .... Should I use 29 again? Or would that be "anti-Bronco"? It seems to me I got in trouble for that before .....

I'll just be a "good soldier" and pick 32 .... cool, Khan?

[BroncoBuff]

I've finished the math .... is it worth a new thread Khan?

[Kaylore]

BEAUTY!!! Khan is just like FedEx.

But now I have to guess what # we'll be in draft order next year .... Should I use 29 again? Or would that be "anti-Bronco"? It seems to me I got in trouble for that before .....

I'll just be a "good soldier" and pick 32 .... cool, Khan? Good soldier mode in this case would be the "worst case scenario" for trade value, meaning while its wonderful to win the Super Bowl, it would mean the most worthless first round pick. If you are someone who ers on the side of caution, it would be a good choice. ;)

[Kaylore]

I've finished the math .... is it worth a new thread Khan?
Try it. If its merged, we've found out.

[BroncoBuff]

OK - thanks!

[BroncoBuff]

Our defense was 3rd in the league in scoring.

Gaping holes?

The loss in Miami was a fluke. Take that game out, and the mistake in the blown coverage in KC, we win both those games. Our team is ROCK SOLID.


I agree, 21 out of 22% anyway .... we do need a speed rushing DE to slot into Pryce's spot. A reliable 8 - 10 sack guy.

Other than that, We ARE rock solid! (Though every little upgrade helps, of course)

[Alkazar]

To me, its all part of the over-all season, ask me again when the season is over, next February.