Broncos targeting QB with first round draft pick

[Taco John]

Don't shoot the messenger...

Broncos | Targeting QB with No. 15 overall pick
Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:35:07 -0800

ESPNews reports the Denver Broncos are expected to target a quarterback after acquiring the No. 15 overall pick from the Atlanta Falcons in a three-team deal.

[Ratboy]

http://www.betus.com/img/benchwarmers/2005-11-02-001.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/peter_king/02/28/mailbag/p1_cutler2.jpg

[SoCalBronco]

LOL

I highly doubt it.

This 100% percent Shanny smokescreen. There isnt even a QB projected to go anywhere from the middle of Round 1 to the middle of Round 2.

[Play2win]

Lionheart is coming to town, Baby... ;)

[Odysseus]

He's going to shoot Plummer?

[Doufer]

leinhart will be gone before #15.. dont count on it

[Taco John]

It would be huge to land either Cutler or Leinart...

[sirhcyennek81]

Seems odd to me...they said they had all the faith in the world with Plummer...and what happens if Leinart and Cutler make it to 15?

:Broncos:

[Garcia Bronco]

Ain't gonna happen....you don't move up that high to take a QB that will sit. I think you're talking about a TE or a Big Body....but someone that can get on the field right awya

[SoCalBronco]

Neither of the top 3 QBs will last to even Pick no. 10.

I can see Shanny doing something like that in Round 3 with maybe Croyle or Gradkowski but no way any higher than that.

[elsid13]

As I posted on the other thread, I really think this is a smoke screen. The front office doesn't tip off what they are going to do until they do it. I think that they are seeing what the teams in top ten want.

[elsid13]

As I posted on the other thread, I really think this is a smoke screen. The front office doesn't tip off what they are going to do until they do it. I think that they are seeing what the teams in top ten want.

[Taco John]

Seems odd to me...they said they had all the faith in the world with Plummer...and what happens if Leinart and Cutler make it to 15?

:Broncos:



Whoever we drafted wouldn't start until probably 2008, except in relief, barring any unforseen circumstances.

[eddie mac]

It would be huge to land either Cutler or Leinart...

Can we afford to move up again when we've other holes to fill at TE/WR, DL and back-up safety???

[Clockwork Orange]

If they moved up to take Cutler I'd put my foot through my television. He's been the most overhyped player in this draft.

I could live with it if it were Leinart or Young, but no f'n way on Cutler.

[Jens1893]

LOL

I highly doubt it.

This 100% percent Shanny smokescreen. There isnt even a QB projected to go anywhere from the middle of Round 1 to the middle of Round 2.

Don´t you think one of Cutler, Leinart or Young could be this year´s Aaron Rodgers?

I´m probably in the minority here, but I´d love to see Shanahan work with Prince Vince.

[SoCalBronco]

Don´t you think one of Cutler, Leinart or Young could be this year´s Aaron Rodgers?

I´m probably in the minority here, but I´d love to see Shanahan work with Prince Vince.

Young needs alot of development but there is huge upside there.

Cutler I havent seen too often, just a few times. He certainly was good at the combine.

Leinart's a 3rd round talent I think, way overhyped.

But I dont believe any of them will fall ala Rodgers. All will be picked in the top 10 and im glad for that, since it would be beyond stupid to go QB with all our needs.

[Clockwork Orange]

I´m probably in the minority here, but I´d love to see Shanahan work with Prince Vince.

Some would hate it, but I'd be allright with it. I seem to remember, right after the Rose Bowl, several here thought he was worthy of being the 1st pick in the draft.

His delivery is odd, but he's 6'5 so the talk about him getting that many passes batted down is overblown. He's mobile as hell and has a strong arm. He may be dumb as a post, but he can make plays on the field. I wouldn't cry if we landed him.

[big56fan#1]

Denver also will be giving up a 3rd or 4th round pick this year too.

[Rohirrim]

I have a feeling this is Taco's dream thread. ;D

[Clockwork Orange]

I have a feeling this is Taco's dream thread. ;D

Especially if it has Matt Leinart at the end of the rainbow. :wiggle:

[broncohaven]

Don´t you think one of Cutler, Leinart or Young could be this year´s Aaron Rodgers?

I´m probably in the minority here, but I´d love to see Shanahan work with Prince Vince.
Vince is the only QB I wouldn't flip out over trading up to get. Leinart and Cutler are way overrated. Young is an absurd athlete, who even if he tanks completely at QB could be an asset to a football team.

I questioned his passing ability until I watched him play a few times this year. His delivery is odd, but so what? He's got a nice arm, and is resonably accurate. He's better on his feet than Vick, and stronger. What I really liked about him in the Rose Bowl was that he looked to pass the ball for as long as he possibly could before the tuck and go.

Vince is one of four players I would move up in order to get. Ngata, Mario, and Vernon Davis are the others. I'll puke on my shoes if we go after Cutler or Leinart. I wouldn't move up in the 2nd to take Leinart, and I'd be pissed with Cutler at #29.

[eddie mac]

If we wanted a QB that bad why didn't we stick the arm into the Falcons a bit more and ask for Matt Schaub.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Cutler is nails... and if he should fall to 15 (which he wont) it would be a steal of the highest order. That said, I want a ballhawk safety like Huff.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Why is everyone so down on Cutler? I think he's a stud. I'd take Cutler over Leinart.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

If we wanted a QB that bad why didn't we stick the arm into the Falcons a bit more and ask for Matt Schaub.

There have been a lot of suitors for Schaub... apparently, you would have better luck trying to arrange a trade for Ron Mexico. Dude has been declared "untouchable," probably because he is their ultimate answer at quarterback down the road.

[Clockwork Orange]

Why is everyone so down on Cutler? I think he's a stud. I'd take Cutler over Leinart.

I rest my case.

[WABronco]

Cutler is nails... and if he should fall to 15 (which he wont) it would be a steal of the highest order. That said, I want a ballhawk safety like Huff.

Huff should stay at corner. He has the ability play both, but his value is higher as a corner...

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I rest my case.

I'll go on record right now you bitch! Cutler will have a more successful NFL career than Leinart!!!

[BroncoMan4ever]

i honestly would not be surprised to see denver package both picks and go after Mario Williams. It would give denver the best pass rushing DE coming into the league. And if the don't do that i say they draft at number 15 Tamba Hali and hope that at 22 they can get Chad Jackson or LenDale White. If they can't get White i think they would be fine drafting DeAngelo Williams or Lawerence Maroney.

[eddie mac]

There have been a lot of suitors for Schaub... apparently, you would have better luck trying to arrange a trade for Ron Mexico. Dude has been declared "untouchable," probably because he is their ultimate answer at quarterback down the road.

I was joking DB, cant believe what we got for what we gave up.

[Ratboy]

Why is everyone so down on Cutler? I think he's a stud. I'd take Cutler over Leinart.

Same here.

[Rohirrim]

I'll go on record right now you b****! Cutler will have a more successful NFL career than Leinart!!!

You've been wrong about so many things. I'm sure this will just add to your impressive record. :~ohyah!:

[Man-Goblin]

I'm still one of those with the opinion that you need a mobile QB for Shanny's system. I'm not so sure Leinart would be the best fit, although I do think he's going to be a good pro. But the guy is a senior, and he needs to play right away...

...Vince Young on the other hand...I would do back flips if this guy started falling and the Broncos could get him at 15. You can't watch that Nat'l Championship game and tell me the kid isn't for real, just not yet in the NFL.

He needs seasoning. And guess what? The Broncos have the time to give a couple years considering they already have a capable QB.

That being said, I don't think he's falling out of the top 10 and I would not be in favor of trading up for him.

[sirhcyennek81]

I'm still one of those with the opinion that you need a mobile QB for Shanny's system. I'm not so sure Leinart would be the best fit, although I do think he's going to be a good pro. But the guy is a senior, and he needs to play right away...

...Vince Young on the other hand...I would do back flips if this guy started falling and the Broncos could get him at 15. You can't watch that Nat'l Championship game and tell me the kid isn't for real, just not yet in the NFL.

He needs seasoning. And guess what? The Broncos have the time to give a couple years considering they already have a capable QB.

That being said, I don't think he's falling out of the top 10 and I would not be in favor of trading up for him.

Cutler has a stronger arm, has a good throwing motion, and is mobile enough. His decision making needs work. That sounds very familiar to me. We will see tho.

:Broncos:

[Garcia Bronco]

"There have been a lot of suitors for Schaub... apparently, you would have better luck trying to arrange a trade for Ron Mexico. Dude has been declared "untouchable," probably because he is their ultimate answer at quarterback down the road."

I would be pissed if I were Matt Schaub....but I'd study my ass off.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I'm still one of those with the opinion that you need a mobile QB for Shanny's system. I'm not so sure Leinart would be the best fit, although I do think he's going to be a good pro. But the guy is a senior, and he needs to play right away...

...Vince Young on the other hand...I would do back flips if this guy started falling and the Broncos could get him at 15. You can't watch that Nat'l Championship game and tell me the kid isn't for real, just not yet in the NFL.

He needs seasoning. And guess what? The Broncos have the time to give a couple years considering they already have a capable QB.

That being said, I don't think he's falling out of the top 10 and I would not be in favor of trading up for him.

I agree with every word of your post.

[Play2win]

I'm still one of those with the opinion that you need a mobile QB for Shanny's system. I'm not so sure Leinart would be the best fit, although I do think he's going to be a good pro. But the guy is a senior, and he needs to play right away...

...Vince Young on the other hand...I would do back flips if this guy started falling and the Broncos could get him at 15. You can't watch that Nat'l Championship game and tell me the kid isn't for real, just not yet in the NFL.

He needs seasoning. And guess what? The Broncos have the time to give a couple years considering they already have a capable QB.

That being said, I don't think he's falling out of the top 10 and I would not be in favor of trading up for him.

The "SYSTEM" is Changing...


Whats really important is to get the ball to where its supposed to be. Deliver it to the right guy at the right TIME, thats the QBs job. If the QB can do that, Shanahan can constuct a system where the offense can be virtually unstopable...

[DarkHorse]

Vernon Davis & LenDale White

Mario Williams (package both picks)

Vince Young & White

Any of those combos would be fine with me.

[Odysseus]

I agree with every word of your post.

Vince Young would be a great fit.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Vince Young would be a great fit.

Agree - If Broncs got him at 15 and folk would sit still for a couple of years until he learned how to maintain his concentration and keep a level head and learned how different NFL offenses are.

[Rohirrim]

My dream draft with these two picks would be Lendale and Tamba.

[Man-Goblin]

Agree - If Broncs got him at 15 and folk would sit still for a couple of years until he learned how to maintain his concentration and keep a level head and learned how different NFL offenses are.

It would be a perfect situation for him, although I think Jake would take it as a slap in the face. Which, in a way, it is.

[Garcia Bronco]

Maybe with the thought of Vince going to the Raiders doesn't set well with Mike :)

[Broncoman13]

ESPN is right on with this one. For those of you mentioning Leinart and Cutler though... you're barking up the wrong tree. Vince Young is going to be a Bronco. I'm happy about it, but at the same time I'd like to have two first round picks too!

[crazyhorse]

.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

crazyhorse SHOOTS AND SCORES

[Orange_Beard]

If they moved up to take Cutler I'd put my foot through my television. He's been the most overhyped player in this draft.

I could live with it if it were Leinart or Young, but no f'n way on Cutler.


I would not put my foot through the TV, however I totally agree about Culter.
Every year there is some super QB who did not do much in college and all of a sudden is "great".......

[Rohirrim]

Cutler is the bust of 2006.

[UboBronco]

I would love it if we took Vince Young away from the Raiders. Just like Elway, a Quarterback that only knows how to win. On another thread, someone suggested we trade our 2 firsts (15 & 22 ) to the Jets for their 2 firsts (4 & 29) Anyone have a chart to see if that is close in points?

[Rascal]

We had better not do anything more with our two first rounders. And if we take a QB somebody needs to shoot shanny.

How ESPN will know a month before the draft when Shanny won't play his hand this early is bogus IMO. This is just a smokescreen.

[crazyhorse]

I would love it if we took Vince Young away from the Raiders. Just like Elway, a Quarterback that only knows how to win. On another thread, someone suggested we trade our 2 firsts (15 & 22 ) to the Jets for their 2 firsts (4 & 29) Anyone have a chart to see if that is close in points?

I doubt all of your draft picks would add up to just the Jets 4th. It might. But the points in the top 5 or so, are just off the chart.

[eddie mac]

I would love it if we took Vince Young away from the Raiders. Just like Elway, a Quarterback that only knows how to win. On another thread, someone suggested we trade our 2 firsts (15 & 22 ) to the Jets for their 2 firsts (4 & 29) Anyone have a chart to see if that is close in points?

Not even close, 15 and 22 only get us up to 5 on the value chart.

[eddie mac]

I'd be real fvcked off if we used our first 4 picks to trade up for a guy that wont see the field for 2 years.

[Orange_Beard]

although I think Jake would take it as a slap in the face. Which, in a way, it is.


I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.

Plummer defenders all talk about "what a down to earth guy he is" this would not be a slap to a down to earth guy.

[elsid13]

I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.

Plummer defenders all talk about "what a down to earth guy he is" this would not be a slap to a down to earth guy.


there is major difference between the QB and any other position on the field. Champ knew he was the man no matter what. You don't do that to QB you think is your leader.

[Rohirrim]

Vince Young loves to run. He'll have some Randall Cunningham years. Then the toll will begin to take. In the NFL, they hit hard.

[eddie mac]

I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.

Plummer defenders all talk about "what a down to earth guy he is" this would not be a slap to a down to earth guy.

Major difference is a team can use 4 or 5 CB's on 1 play, you'll only ever have 1

[sirhcyennek81]

I'd be real fvcked off if we used our first 4 picks to trade up for a guy that wont see the field for 2 years.


Steve Young sat for a few years. He ended up being OK.

:Broncos:

[eddie mac]

I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.

Plummer defenders all talk about "what a down to earth guy he is" this would not be a slap to a down to earth guy.

Major difference is a team can use 4 or 5 CB's on 1 play, you'll only ever have 1 QB on the field.

[eddie mac]

Steve Young sat for a few years. He ended up being OK.

:Broncos:

I realise that but given the fact we've been real quiet in FA a lot of people are really looking forward to the draft and the ammo we have for a change. Last year was a total bore not picking until the 2nd rd. Imagine we're picking top 5 this year and then have to wait until Sunday for another selection.

[Orange_Beard]

Major difference is a team can use 4 or 5 CB's on 1 play, you'll only ever have 1

You need more then 1 QB, the Steelers played 3 last year.

At the most you play 3 cb's at a time. If you are going to say you need 4 or 5 incase of injury, then why not 2 or 3 QB's.

Right now I don't believe we could win with BVP @ QB. VY could back-up for a year or 2 then be a STUD.

[sirhcyennek81]

I realise that but given the fact we've been real quiet in FA a lot of people are really looking forward to the draft and the ammo we have for a change. Last year was a total bore not picking until the 2nd rd. Imagine we're picking top 5 this year and then have to wait until Sunday for another selection.


We will see. I like the offseason so far. We resigned the important players, cut deadweight, and is in good shape, cap wise.

:Broncos:

[bpc]

I'd be real fvcked off if we used our first 4 picks to trade up for a guy that wont see the field for 2 years.

I would too.

However, I don't think we will need to trade for Vince though, I think he will be a major slider during this draft. Us being at 15 gives us a huge opportunity to land him. And if he isn't there, we can always go with the next best option... and we should have plenty of them. This is a win/win situation for us.

As for a message being sent to Plummer... thats right. Get better or get gone. We've committed a significant amount of money to this player and we expect some championships to come from his time here.

I think Vince Young is going to be great in the right system. There are not that many places where he could flourish in the NFL. Denver just happens to be one of the places where I think he can. He can have a D. McNabb type of career with us. McNabb is a case in point why sitting Vince for a year or even two would not be a bad thing... it would only make him better in the long run.

[eddie mac]

We will see. I like the offseason so far. We resigned the important players, cut deadweight, and is in good shape, cap wise.

:Broncos:

I know that bro, but it's the old quote from Shanny that's ringing in my ears. "We're 2 playmakers away". I think we can add immediate starters at those 2 draft slots.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Not even close, 15 and 22 only get us up to 5 on the value chart.

Good thing the Falcons didn't follow the online value chart when making this trade

[Clockwork Orange]

Good thing the Falcons didn't follow the online value chart when making this trade

Dan Snyder does not approve. The chart is gospel.

[eddie mac]

You need more then 1 QB, the Steelers played 3 last year.

At the most you play 3 cb's at a time. If you are going to say you need 4 or 5 incase of injury, then why not 2 or 3 QB's.

Right now I don't believe we could win with BVP @ QB. VY could back-up for a year or 2 then be a STUD.

I realise that bro, but even with BVP in there the Broncs have only run with 2 QB's in 2005 and 2004 whilst in both years we had 6 corners on the roster.

[Lestat]

Dan Snyder never approves unless he's writing a check for atleast 20 mil :)

[extralife]

Vince Young won't last past the Raiders at seven, guys. If we want him, we'll have to move up to six. Word has it the Niners would be interested in moving, so I'd say VY is ours if we want him.

Do we want him?

I sort of hope not.

[eddie mac]

Good thing the Falcons didn't follow the online value chart when making this trade

They couldn't see passed their hard-on for Mr Abraham.

[Rohirrim]

I hope not too. He reminds me of Randall Cunningham. Fun to watch. Explosive. Mind blowing athletics. Getting whacked and whacked and whacked.

[penguintheory]

I'm happy to draft a potential star running back and let the other teams squabble over all the quarterback drama in the '06 draft. Then again, if one of the "Big 3" slip into our laps Rodgers-style, how can we refuse?

[Orange_Beard]

I realise that bro, but even with BVP in there the Broncs have only run with 2 QB's in 2005 and 2004 whilst in both years we had 6 corners on the roster.


Sure, in this time we have not had a shot at young stud QB to develop.
I think Shanny is going with the theory that the 3rd stringer is a guy in street cloths. My feeling is that he thinks so little of our back-up QB talent that he feels that a guy off the street is as good, so why waist a roster spot.

In my mind the last time we had 3 QB's is when Shanny was grooming Griese(a guy he was in Love with). I think Plummer has reached his peak a young guy with lots of upside would be nice to have......

[broncohaven]

I hope not too. He reminds me of Randall Cunningham. Fun to watch. Explosive. Mind blowing athletics. Getting whacked and whacked and whacked.
Vince hardly ever takes a shot.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Don´t you think one of Cutler, Leinart or Young could be this year´s Aaron Rodgers?

I´m probably in the minority here, but I´d love to see Shanahan work with Prince Vince.

The shotgun and the bootleg are made for Vince. I still think that he has a good chance to be the best player out of this draft. Rememeber the Rose Bowl? And the one before it? Vince is a gamer. He "Micheal Jordan'ed" the best USC team to make the championship game.

[penguintheory]

Vince hardly ever takes a shot.

That'll change in the NFL. :afro:

[12th man]

I wouldn't like using any of our first round picks on a qb. we are fine with what we got. we have more glaring needs than qb. but whatever shanny does, im down with it. I don't think we will be able to get young, leinart or cutler. They will already be gone. If I had to pick between the three I would say V young. Leinart is not mobile enough for our system, and I realy don't know much about cutler so im not going to judge. I mean the guy has a great arm and just recently people are starting to realy like him. probably cause of the senior bowl and the combine. he did look good there, but young won a championship, is mobile and a pretty good arm. not great but good enough. Ive met people who have compared cutler to Elway, and Im qucik to remind people Elway finised second in the heisman and set Pac 10 records. but maybe cutler is good for denver, and maybe is better than young. Young was with a better team, so I don't know. Now that i think about it maybe I don't want leinart. I think Brodie Croyle from Alabama was interested in the bronos or vice versa during the combine I can't remeber, but there was interest from one of the two or both. could that be who shanny is targeting if this stroy is even true wich I doubt it is. and I would not want him.

[penguintheory]

I see Vince Young as the second coming of Michael Vick. Freakish athlete with huge upside, but the big question is, will it ever develop and evolve...? Vick hasn't yet developed into a complete product and I don't think he ever will. That's got something to do with his cocky attitude, one that VY appears to share.

#15 looks like a good position to grab Vernon Davis.

[Rascal]

I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.


There is a problem with that arguement. You could have as many as four CB's on the field at once (dime). You can only have one QB on the field at once.

[RMT]

ESPN is right on with this one. For those of you mentioning Leinart and Cutler though... you're barking up the wrong tree. Vince Young is going to be a Bronco. I'm happy about it, but at the same time I'd like to have two first round picks too!

I'll hurl if VY is picked by the Broncos.

[Garcia Bronco]

This whole rumor of VY is to make the Raider flinch

[RMT]

As I posted on the other thread, I really think this is a smoke screen. The front office doesn't tip off what they are going to do until they do it. I think that they are seeing what the teams in top ten want.

Perhaps it's a smoke screen to force the Raiders (who really want VY) to trade up.

[RMT]

I know that bro, but it's the old quote from Shanny that's ringing in my ears. "We're 2 playmakers away". I think we can add immediate starters at those 2 draft slots.

That's what I'm hoping for - I do NOT want us trading both #1s to move up (unless we can keep two first round picks).

[epicSocialism4tw]

I see Vince Young as the second coming of Michael Vick. Freakish athlete with huge upside, but the big question is, will it ever develop and evolve...? Vick hasn't yet developed into a complete product and I don't think he ever will. That's got something to do with his corky attitude, one that VY appears to share.

#15 looks like a good position to grab Vernon Davis.

I dont think that that's a good evaluation of Young.

He's not a complete player? Have you watched him play at all over the past three seasons? The guy is smart with the ball, throws well, makes HUGE plays (like winning the natl. championship in the clutch nearly on his own), he's an instinctive player with field vision like Barry Sanders. He stands in the pocket to pass first. He's no Vick.

[SoCalBronco]

I'll go on record right now you b****! Cutler will have a more successful NFL career than Leinart!!!

That's not exactly going out on a limb, gochiefs.

He's going to do better than a scrub.

Wow, how courageous you are.

[Rascal]

I dont think that that's a good evaluation of Young.

He's not a complete player? Have you watched him play at all over the past three seasons? The guy is smart with the ball, throws well, makes HUGE plays (like winning the natl. championship in the clutch nearly on his own), he's an instinctive player with field vision like Barry Sanders. He stands in the pocket to pass first. He's no Vick.

True I think Vick got a 12 on his wonderlic.

[broncohaven]

I see Vince Young as the second coming of Michael Vick. Freakish athlete with huge upside, but the big question is, will it ever develop and evolve...? Vick hasn't yet developed into a complete product and I don't think he ever will. That's got something to do with his corky attitude, one that VY appears to share.

#15 looks like a good position to grab Vernon Davis.
That's not an accurate comparison at all. How many big games did Vick lead his team to victory in? The Longhorns were completely overmatched against USC (as well as Michigan the year before), and Vince made gamebreaking play after gamebreaking play; and he did it with ease.

If you compare Young to Vick, I would dare say you haven't seen Young play very much. He goes through his reads, moves around in the pocket while still looking for a receiver, and if no one has come open by the time there's no other option he runs it himself. Vick looks to the primary target, if it isn't there he's gone. He might see a secondary target on occassion, but not often. Young isn't like that at all.

Watch the USC game and you'll see he hit the third and fourth option more than the first or second because Texas's WRs couldn't get open.

[broncohaven]

True I think Vick got a 12 on his wonderlic.
The reports of Young's 6 are as accurate as reports that Iraq had WMDs.

[DBroncos4life]

I'll be pissed off we draft Young but lucky for me it says targeting a QB.

[broncohaven]

I'll be pissed off we draft Young but lucky for me it says targeting a QB. Another who hasn't seen Young play chimes in.

[epicSocialism4tw]

True I think Vick got a 12 on his wonderlic.

That test wont be an indicator of his performance. Ive seen him play quite a bit and he generaled the offense like a master. He is great out of the shotgun like John was. Heady, aware, composed, and in control. Young is a star quality skill player. He made Reggie Bush, Leinart, and White all look second rate in that championship game.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'd like Young, if it didn't require giving up #22 or the '07 1st. Since that's probably not going to happen, I'd rather Denver stay put.

[DBroncos4life]

Another who hasn't seen Young play chimes in.
Yeah there is a slim chance I haven't seen him play. Thanks though.

[Bronco9798]

That test wont be an indicator of his performance. Ive seen him play quite a bit and he generaled the offense like a master. He is great out of the shotgun like John was. Heady, aware, composed, and in control. Young is a star quality skill player. He made Reggie Bush, Leinart, and White all look second rate in that championship game.

Texas playbook for Vince Young

Pay No#1
Run Like hell

Play No#2
Hand off to RB, if you miss handoff, Run Like Hell

Play No#3
Loof for a WR, if he is covered, Run Like Hell

Play No#4
If all else fails, Run like Hell!!

Note: Do not try to read a defense, just look once, and you know the rest
Run Like Hell!!

[BigPlayShay]

ESPN has to be right. I mean, how predictable have the Broncos 1st round picks been under Shanahan:hitself: ?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Texas playbook for Vince Young

Pay No#1
Run Like hell

Play No#2
Hand off to RB, if you miss handoff, Run Like Hell

Play No#3
Loof for a WR, if he is covered, Run Like Hell

Play No#4
If all else fails, Run like Hell!!

Note: Do not try to read a defense, just look once, and you know the rest
Run Like Hell!!

Is this guy serious?

[Popps]

If we can't get a top 2 prospect, it would be idiotic to spend the #15 on a QB.

[DBruleU]

Is this guy serious?

I dont know. It sounds pretty accurate of what Young is. At least from what I've seen from him. Maybe you have a better idea of how good he really is, but thats how I see him at least. I dont think I'd want the Broncos to take him at 15.

[SoCalBronco]

It HAS to be White, Williams or Bunkley at 15.

It just has to.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

It HAS to be White, Williams or Bunkley at 15.

It just has to.

Way. Too. Early. To. Tell.

[RMT]

Texas playbook for Vince Young

Pay No#1
Run Like hell

Play No#2
Hand off to RB, if you miss handoff, Run Like Hell

Play No#3
Loof for a WR, if he is covered, Run Like Hell

Play No#4
If all else fails, Run like Hell!!

Note: Do not try to read a defense, just look once, and you know the rest
Run Like Hell!!

Makes sense to me ... UT players need a simple playbook.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Vince Young had probably the greatest single game in NCAA football history. He won the championship nearly by himself.

Remember this?
30/40 267yds passing
19 car. 200 yards 3TD's rushing
Total Domination.

[DBruleU]

Vince Young had probably the greatest single game in NCAA football history. He won the championship nearly by himself.

Remember this?
30/40 267yds passing
19 car. 200 yards 3TD's rushing
Total Domination.

I will agree...that was a very impressive game. But as an overall QB, I dont know if he'd be as good in the NFL. I dont want a Vick as a Bronco.

[anthonypacino]

Alright a serious question...I saw Drew Olsen play in and compete in a skills challenge he blew the competion away, does anyone know how he did in the combine? Was he invited? I know you can't evaluate a player based on something like that, but I did not watch alot of Pac-10 ball this year so that is the only thing I can base him on. anyone want to give me some info? If he has some upside would he be worth a late round pick?

[RMT]

Vince Young had probably the greatest single game in NCAA football history. He won the championship nearly by himself.

Remember this?
30/40 267yds passing
19 car. 200 yards 3TD's rushing
Total Domination.

One great college game does not an NFL career make. Keep in mind that Elways' Stanford Cardinal never played in a bowl game when he was a QB. That didn't prevent him from shining as an NFL QB. And Elway's raw QB skills were more refined than VY's at this stage of the game.

[Bronco9798]

Vince Young had probably the greatest single game in NCAA football history. He won the championship nearly by himself.

Remember this?
30/40 267yds passing
19 car. 200 yards 3TD's rushing
Total Domination.
Playing against a defense that was disguised by it's offense. USC beat people by out scoring them, not by playing defense. Maybe they shut down the doormants of the Pac 10 occassionaly.

[maher_tyler]

The guy who earlier posted that Lienart is WAY overrated is an idiot!!! I would take him over alomst over anyone in the draft. WHY, beacuse he played all the way up to his senior year and also had a former NFL head coach Pete Caroll leading him the way so he knows what it's gonna take to make it in the NFL. I don't know if anyone watched that UCS Vs Notre Dame game but when it was 4th and 6th or whatever and audibled with the crowd going nuts to one of his wideouts and not only converted it but got like a 60 yard gain down to like the 3...not exactlly sure if thats EXACTLLY how it went but if you watched that game you know what i'm talking about...that was one of the most clutch plays i have ever seen in any sport pro or college!!! Imo...Young and Cutler will be just as successful as leinart but to say hes way overrated is ridiculous. Also i'd take him over pretty much anyone in the draft with the execption of Bush and V.Davis! Just my opinion.

[Bronco9798]

The guy who earlier posted that Lienart is WAY overrated is an idiot!!! I would take him over alomst over anyone in the draft. WHY, beacuse he played all the way up to his senior year and also had a former NFL head coach Pete Caroll leading him the way so he knows what it's gonna take to make it in the NFL. I don't know if anyone watched that UCS Vs Notre Dame game but when it was 4th and 6th or whatever and audibled with the crowd going nuts to one of his wideouts and not only converted it but got like a 60 yard gain down to like the 3...not exactlly sure if thats EXACTLLY how it went but if you watched that game you know what i'm talking about...that was one of the most clutch plays i have ever seen in any sport pro or college!!! Imo...Young and Cutler will be just as successful as leinart but to say hes way overrated is ridiculous. Also i'd take him over pretty much anyone in the draft with the execption of Bush and V.Davis! Just my opinion.

That person is probably a Miami U fan. You figure it out..Not hard, huh...

[epicSocialism4tw]

One great college game does not an NFL career make. Keep in mind that Elways' Stanford Cardinal never played in a bowl game when he was a QB. That didn't prevent him from shining as an NFL QB. And Elway's raw QB skills were more refined than VY's at this stage of the game.

That may have been the only game that you guys saw, but as an Oklahoma fan living in Texas, I am inundated with Texas games. Young has been brilliant for 3 seasons. His championship team was undefeated. The year before, they lost one (to the superior college north of the Red River), and Young gave the same "USC" treatment to a heavily favored Michigan team in the Rose Bowl. Young has the record and the play to prove his worth. That test wont mean squat when he becomes the best QB of his era.

[extralife]

Notre Dame play

That's what really sold me on Leinart. College QB's aren't supposed to be able to do that.

[Lestat]

Michigan fans still have nightmares about Young in "that game" he made our entire team his bitch & it was like he was just toying with us during the comeback victory :(

[Bronco9798]

That may have been the only game that you guys saw, but as an Oklahoma fan living in Texas, I am inundated with Texas games. Young has been brilliant for 3 seasons. His championship team was undefeated. The year before, they lost one (to the superior college north of the Red River), and Young gave the same "USC" treatment to a heavily favored Michigan team in the Rose Bowl. Young has the record and the play to prove his worth. That test wont mean squat when he becomes the best QB of his era.

I live in big 12 country as well. I watched him all the time. I didn't post with no knowledge of never watching him play. I watched him closely. Again, not impresed. That's just my opinion. Some guys are great college players. There's a difference between a college offense and a pro style offense. Some make it, some don't. It'll be interesting to see VY learn to drop back and make reads from the pocket and go through ALL his progressions in a matter of seconds in the speedy NFL. I can't wait to watch. I don't see him mastering it. This isn't college anymore. You have to have some intelligence to read a defense in the NFL. You have to be quick to react. I don't think he can do it. Again, just my opinion.

[phisig150]

Can you say smokescreen? But if you had to take one qb for the sake of argument Lienart hands down. This guy is battletested, been running a very complex practically NFL caliber Offense. This guy's huge in the clutch anybody remeber his performance against Notre Gayme. What the flying **** did Cutler ever do? He palyed for the powerhouse Vanderbilt for Xhist Sakes. Lienart almost lead his team to an almost unparrled threepeat. But he the weapons.. Blah,blah, blah. Guess what you need horses especially in college. Does Payton suck ass because he had Edge and Harrison and Stokley, and Wayne. Montanna, Young, Aikman sure didn't have any recievers did they? Lienart made recievers. Remeber Williams left early and then boom Jarret becomes a stud. Lienart is top 5 qb coming out of college all time. Young's going to be great too. I'm thinking Mcnabb. Both are can't miss in my opinion. Cutler just hype. He's the next coming, not of Farve but... Joey Harrington. Stop all the hating on Lienart just because he's from Cali. Not all of us are aholes.

[RMT]

That may have been the only game that you guys saw, but as an Oklahoma fan living in Texas, I am inundated with Texas games. Young has been brilliant for 3 seasons. His championship team was undefeated. The year before, they lost one (to the superior college north of the Red River), and Young gave the same "USC" treatment to a heavily favored Michigan team in the Rose Bowl. Young has the record and the play to prove his worth. That test wont mean squat when he becomes the best QB of his era.

"Best QB of his era?" That is VERY premature ... he may not even be the best NFL QB in this year's draft when it's all said and done.

[epicSocialism4tw]

"Best QB of his era?" That is VERY premature ... he may not even be the best NFL QB in this year's draft when it's all said and done.

Call it a premonition ;D

Has there ever been a college player so dominant in big games? I cant think of one.

[RMT]

Call it a premonition ;D

Has there ever been a college player so dominant in big games? I cant think of one.

Yeah, Brian Bosworth on defense and Tony Mandarich on the OL.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Call it a premonition ;D

Has there ever been a college player so dominant in big games? I cant think of one.
well, How about Elway against Oklahoma and Ohio State in a two week period with a crappy team.

I like Young, but I don't think he is going to step in and be great from day one. How many snaps did he fumble this year? Probably an all time record. How many times did he try to force a play that wasn't there? Seemed like at least a dozen times a game. And yes I did see him almost every week on TV, twice in person this year and twice in person last year. He has amazing skills, but he has not learned how to harness those skills. It will take time, but if he does, he will be a good one.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yeah, Brian Bosworth on defense and Tony Mandarich on the OL.

Not even close.

[RMT]

Not even close.

I respectfully disagree with you on VY ... are you from Texas? :homer:
That's a rhetorical question, BTW.

[phisig150]

Lienart = nice filet
Young= good porterhouse
Cutler= spam

[RMT]

Lienart = nice filet
Young= good porterhouse
Cutler= spam

That must be VY after his 2nd Wonderlic score ... after his 1st score he was more like a sirloin.

[Finger Roll]

Manderich and Bosworth were also big steriod freaks in College and stopped using them in the pros. That's why they stunk.

[Finger Roll]

Didn't Dan Marino have one of the lowest wonderlic scores of all time? I think Bret Favre was also very low

[RMT]

Didn't Dan Marino have one of the lowest wonderlic scores of all time? I think Bret Favre was also very low

VY would have a good score if he could add up both attempts, which he can't ... unless he used a calculator. He was okay until his second score was a double digit number.

[WaffleBoy]

Don't shoot the messenger...

Broncos | Targeting QB with No. 15 overall pick
Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:35:07 -0800

ESPNews reports the Denver Broncos are expected to target a quarterback after acquiring the No. 15 overall pick from the Atlanta Falcons in a three-team deal.

If they draft a qb who is anything as good as this guy:

http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent//2006/01/16/13/05_IND2_Roethlisberger_KR_647_61424.jpg,

then they are headed back to the Super Bowl. :thumbs:

The Boy Wonder :super:

[RMT]

If they draft a qb who is anything as good as this guy:

http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent//2006/01/16/13/05_IND2_Roethlisberger_KR_647_61424.jpg,

then they are headed back to the Super Bowl. :thumbs:

The Boy Wonder :super:

Oh, yeah, Ben - he of the 22.6 QB rating in the Super Bowl. How many QBs ever have a rating that's less than their age? That must require some major talent.

[WaffleBoy]

Oh, yeah, Ben - he of the 22.6 QB rating in the Super Bowl. How many QBs ever have a rating that's less than their age? That must require some major talent.

Ben was great when he had to be. :~ohyah!:

BTW, didn't John Elway had the second lowest rating to win a Super Bowl? :thumbsup:

The Boy Wonder :super:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Didn't Dan Marino have one of the lowest wonderlic scores of all time? I think Bret Favre was also very low

Yeah, Marino's was poor.

The Wonderlic is an intelligence test. There are currently validity studies on the test because of what was understood as a cultural bias years ago. That test doesnt really test his football intelligence, but tests crystalized academic and "common sense" type intelligence. It makes sense that a guy who has put an extraordinary amount of effort into football and comes from an environment that doesnt have the same educational values as mainstream white culture would potentially have problems. Im not saying that Mensa should extend a membership, but that it probably doesnt matter because he's playing football. He's managing relationships, learning plays, and executing them on the field. Its not brain surgery.

[Kaylore]

LOL

I highly doubt it.

This 100% percent Shanny smokescreen. There isnt even a QB projected to go anywhere from the middle of Round 1 to the middle of Round 2.
No kidding. Shanahan has always managed to completely twist the media around as to his intentions. Does not matter if it's who's starting, the draft, or what plays you want to call: Shanahan keeps people guessing.

[Requiem]

Okay, so let me get this ****ing straight.

#29, plus our third this year and a fourth next year to move up to #15? Omfg. I just wet my jeans.

We still have our second, will probably get a third for Hayward (atleast a fourth) and have two fourths as it is. Holy****. My God. I love this team.

[yavoon]

Yeah, Marino's was poor.

The Wonderlic is an intelligence test. There are currently validity studies on the test because of what was understood as a cultural bias years ago. That test doesnt really test his football intelligence, but tests crystalized academic and "common sense" type intelligence. It makes sense that a guy who has put an extraordinary amount of effort into football and comes from an environment that doesnt have the same educational values as mainstream white culture would potentially have problems. Im not saying that Mensa should extend a membership, but that it probably doesnt matter because he's playing football. He's managing relationships, learning plays, and executing them on the field. Its not brain surgery.

the wonderlic doesn't test so much anything academic as it tests ur ability to think quickly and correctly. I do think vince young could have similar problems to mike vick(who still wins NFL games).

[BroncoBuff]

Neither Cutler nor Leinert will be there at #15 .... (VY might be, though).

But let's look closer here ... what we NEED is more sacks! Not a QB. We're 2 players away, we are NOT rebuilding.

[BroncoBuff]

Yeah, Marino's was poor.

The Wonderlic is an intelligence test. There are currently validity studies on the test because of what was understood as a cultural bias years ago.

Yeah, that Dan Marino ..... raised impoverished in the ghetto .... a victim of cultural bias, no doubt.

Actually, Dan Marino is about as white-bread as a person can be, imho...

Griese got a 39 .... and for that mater, I got all 9 questions correct on the sample test - they said it translates to a 48-50 score. So does that mean somebody should draft me?

[Play2win]

Yeah, that Dan Marino ..... raised impoverished in the ghetto .... a victim of cultural bias, no doubt.

Actually, Dan Marino is about as white-bread as a person can be, imho...

Griese got a 39 .... and for that mater, I got all 9 questions correct on the sample test - they said it translates to a 48-50 score. So does that mean somebody should draft me?

Yeah, you're local Bartender... ;D

[BroncoBuff]

Vince Young had probably the greatest single game in NCAA football history. He won the championship nearly by himself.

True ... but it was more than that. People keep forgetting the 12 games before the Rose:

Wherein VY led the nation in passing efficiency and completion %.

[Crushaholic]

Say it now...Bunkley, Bunkley, Bunkley....

That guy was a beast at the combine. That's the playmaker we should draft at this spot...

[Odysseus]

Way. Too. Early. To. Tell.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[Odysseus]

Okay, so let me get this ****ing straight.

#29, plus our third this year and a fourth next year to move up to #15? Omfg. I just wet my jeans.

We still have our second, will probably get a third for Hayward (atleast a fourth) and have two fourths as it is. Holy****. My God. I love this team.

Welcome to my world.

[BroncoBuff]

We'd have to move further up....

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8885/mario2sf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Check out his "NOTES" ! !

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7489/mathias1rs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BroncoBuff]

I'm not sure either of these guys will be there at #15

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2406/bunkley1os.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4558/ngata0po.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BroncoBuff]

One of these guys will be there at #22....

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7779/marcedes4kd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4774/pope9wl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

No chance at #15 or 22 ....

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/296/vernon4fh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BroncoBuff]

We can hope .... Continue the Billy Thompson/Dennis Smith/Steve Atwater tradition ...

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8840/huff8tx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Odysseus]

Thanks for the real deal updates BroncosBuff1.

[elsid13]

Alright a serious question...I saw Drew Olsen play in and compete in a skills challenge he blew the competion away, does anyone know how he did in the combine? Was he invited? I know you can't evaluate a player based on something like that, but I did not watch alot of Pac-10 ball this year so that is the only thing I can base him on. anyone want to give me some info? If he has some upside would he be worth a late round pick?

Olson really turned it on the season, he finally seemed to get it. ULCA brought in transfer Olson(no relation to Drew) to take the job and Drew Olson stepped it up big time and really showed to be one of the better QB in the country. Strengths are really good arm, decision process, and can rally a team from behind. Weakness is he has been hurt and not real mobile. Worth a 4 rounder pick.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Good to see Kiper has no clue what he's talking about and says the trade up for for a WR. Yeah Mel, Denver traded up in a strong draft in order to take someone at one of the weaker positions.

[broncohaven]

Marino, Dan 1983 Pittsburgh 14

[fontaine]

Shanahan is NOT drafting a QB in the first round.

I'd be ok for it to happen but

1. the top three won't fall that far
2. we didn't show even a modicum of interest in Culpeppar who was ten times a surer thing than any over these overhyped QB prospect.

If Shanahan really felt we needed a QB then we would have at least shown some interest in Culpeppar.

[Odysseus]

Shanahan is NOT drafting a QB in the first round.

I'd be ok for it to happen but

1. the top three won't fall that far
2. we didn't show even a modicum of interest in Culpeppar who was ten times a surer thing than any over these overhyped QB prospect.

If Shanahan really felt we needed a QB then we would have at least shown some interest in Culpeppar.

I don't think a damaged Culpepper is worth that much consideration to be honest. He might be...but at first glance I don't see the Broncos making him ANY kind of priority. What's he going to do? Backup Jake? We are going to Bench Jake for a one legged purple people eater? I don't get it.

The top three COULD fall that far. I think the whole thing is to SAY you after a QB and see who starts to going for it. Why not? Give takes Vince who was on the fence. Cool. Now something else drops to the Broncos. TE, DE, or DT are my wish list.

[chrisp]

Don't agree that the Culpepper thing means anything. If we go after a proven vet QB we are saying we want Jake out now. Today.

If we get a QB in the draft then we are saying we want to start grooming Jake's successor now. I don't think any rookie gets thrown in the cauldron year 1 or even year 2 perhaps, so he's only really challenging for the starting spot 3-4 years from now by which time Jake could be thinking about retiring anyway...

I'm not saying that we ARE looking at QB in the draft, in fact, personally I don't think we are, all Iam saying is that a lack of interest in Culpepper does not mean we aren't looking QB.

We have other needs but then again if a highly-rated (by Shanny, not by the media) prospect falls Shanny may well pounce...

[fontaine]

I don't think a damaged Culpepper is worth that much consideration to be honest. He might be...but at first glance I don't see the Broncos making him ANY kind of priority.

As opposed to who? Brodie Croyle? His name has been tossed around as someone Denver could be interested in and if they gave out frequent "flier" points for hospital trips, he would have his own hospital named after him by now.

Culpeppar has a serious knee injury but he's still a much surer thing than a draft pick.

The top three COULD fall that far. I think the whole thing is to SAY you after a QB and see who starts to going for it. Why not? Give takes Vince who was on the fence. Cool. Now something else drops to the Broncos. TE, DE, or DT are my wish list.

Yeah I agree. Beat the bushes. See what pops out.

[Orange_Beard]

One great college game does not an NFL career make. Keep in mind that Elways' Stanford Cardinal never played in a bowl game when he was a QB. That didn't prevent him from shining as an NFL QB. And Elway's raw QB skills were more refined than VY's at this stage of the game.

Dude, Texas was undefeated- They went into OSU and won.
#2 Texas vs #4 Ohio State (Sep 10, 2005 at Columbus, Ohio)
Passing:18-29-2-270,
Rushing:20-76

#4 TEXAS vs #13 MICHIGAN (Jan 01, 2005 at Pasadena, CA)
Passing: 16-28-1-180
rushing:21-192
2 big time bowl games, to GREAT games. I would be nice to have a QB who played great in big games.

You can say talk a bunch of trash about VY, but saying he "One great college game" is silly.

[Wes Mantooth]

Neither of the top 3 QBs will last to even Pick no. 10.

I can see Shanny doing something like that in Round 3 with maybe Croyle or Gradkowski but no way any higher than that.
15+22=9 or better. Lionheart is on his way into town!

[Mile High Shack]

obviously with the report coming out that we are targetting a QB, it's obvious we are NOT in fact targetting a QB

you don't come out and say who you want unless you are trying to throw up a smokescreen

next

good trade though!

[Drek]

If Vince Young fell to us at 15 thats cool, but I got no ambition to trade up further, unless the rapefest continues, like our 2nd and 15th overall for a top 10 pick.

[Orange_Beard]

Oh, yeah, Ben - he of the 22.6 QB rating in the Super Bowl. How many QBs ever have a rating that's less than their age? That must require some major talent.

Yeah he had a rotten SB.
In the AFC Champ game his rating was 124.9
Our QB's rating was 66.4

[Rock Chalk]

Don't shoot the messenger...

Broncos | Targeting QB with No. 15 overall pick
Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:35:07 -0800

ESPNews reports the Denver Broncos are expected to target a quarterback after acquiring the No. 15 overall pick from the Atlanta Falcons in a three-team deal.
Smoke and mirrors.

Denver has never drafted the position people thought they would be targeting.

We took Lelie when everyone thought we were going safety. We took Foster when everyone thought we were going DE. We took DJ when everyone thought we were going either RB or TE.

We will not be getting a QB with the 15th pick.

[GSRelyea]

It would make no sense to me to take a QB with any 1st day pick. We were one game from the superbowl last year, get a pass rusher and add depth, at some need positions WR,S,OL,RB, ect... Then get your tickets for Miami next February.

[DrFate]

No chance it is a QB. Zero. None. Nada.

I'm with Herc - this was a no brainer to get 15. They made the deal because it improved the Broncos value and not to get any one player.

[Rohirrim]

I would like the Broncos to use their sixth round pick on Drew Olson, QB, UCLA. I think he's the sleeper of the draft. He's smart, has a good arm and excellent accuracy. Blew his ACL and MCL his junior year but recovered nicely last year. I believe that any deficiencies he has could be coached out of him by Shanahan & Co. He'll never be a vertical game QB, but IMO he'll make an excellent WCO QB if he gets in the right coaching situation.

[Old Dude]

The thing is that the trade up to 15 was such a no-brainer of a deal, that it doesn't necessarily mean the Broncos are really targeting anyone. It's quite possible that they just go for the best player available, because it's almost certain that someone at some position, will drop through the cracks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them make another move before it's over.

[Cito Pelon]

IF I was in the Bronco FO, I'd be very sorely tempted to package something to move up further and get VY. I don't think he will last to 15. Someone is going to roll the dice on him, and I think he's worth rolling the dice for.

[epicSocialism4tw]

IF I was in the Bronco FO, I'd be very sorely tempted to package something to move up further and get VY. I don't think he will last to 15. Someone is going to roll the dice on him, and I think he's worth rolling the dice for.

The guy is a gamer. In the same way that Tom Brady is a gamer. VY plays with the competitiveness of Brady and with the athleticism and skill of a completely unique talent. Young will go well before 15. His wonderlic score wont push him out of the top 10.

[Rascal]

The thing is that the trade up to 15 was such a no-brainer of a deal, that it doesn't necessarily mean the Broncos are really targeting anyone. It's quite possible that they just go for the best player available, because it's almost certain that someone at some position, will drop through the cracks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them make another move before it's over.

Exactly. The value increase was so great (200+ points according to the draft value chart) that they would have been stupid not to do it.

I honestly wouldn't be suprised to see us move back down to early 20's and get our third rounder back during the draft.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Wonderlic is just a quick screen test. It only gives an indication. Kind of like when you go to the family doc for a physical and he makes you read the eye chart. Just a cursory check.

[orange 4 life]

Don't shoot the messenger...

Broncos | Targeting QB with No. 15 overall pick
Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:35:07 -0800

ESPNews reports the Denver Broncos are expected to target a quarterback after acquiring the No. 15 overall pick from the Atlanta Falcons in a three-team deal.

7 pages already.
what a shock.

i dont believe it, but if it were true it would be the stupidest move since
maddox came to town.
when you have a team that was one game away from the superbowl and a qb who's playing at a probowl level you dont worry about 3-5 years from now.

you go get players that can help the team NOW.

its idiocy like this that makes me sick to my stomach.

[Taco John]

you go get players that can help the team NOW.




Typically in an NFL draft, there's no such thing. People expecting impact players in a draft are people who are easily and often disappointed.

Drafts are about the future. Free Agency is about tomorrow.

[orange 4 life]

Typically in an NFL draft, there's no such thing. People expecting impact players in a draft are people who are easily and often disappointed.

Drafts are about the future. Free Agency is about tomorrow.

i agree completely, which is why im not exactly thrilled right now.

we dont need to be dicking around with possible qb's who MIGHT play in 3-5 years.
we need to get a player or two in free agency that can help this team win now.

[rubaiyat]

I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.

Plummer defenders all talk about "what a down to earth guy he is" this would not be a slap to a down to earth guy.

Really? How many teams run 2 QB sets? Or heck, 4 QB sets like in the Dime? Very big difference in those positions. And even then, Champ is champ, he wasn't being replaced.

[rubaiyat]

Steve Young sat for a few years. He ended up being OK.

:Broncos:

Behind a Hall of Famer, and arguably the most clutch QB in history.

I mean it wasn't like Steve wasn't known to be good, he was just the newbie in a system with a legend at QB.

Vince might very well blow Steve out of the water, but we are a near championship team with no big holes but areas that need improvement. With our top 3 picks and maybe a trade we can fill just about every need from pass rush to red zone.

[BroncoInferno]

If they moved up to take Cutler I'd put my foot through my television. He's been the most overhyped player in this draft.

I could live with it if it were Leinart or Young, but no f'n way on Cutler.

Cutler is better then Leinart. I don't want a QB, but if we have to take one, it better be Young or Cutler. Leinart is overrated.

[BroncoInferno]

Typically in an NFL draft, there's no such thing. People expecting impact players in a draft are people who are easily and often disappointed.

Drafts are about the future. Free Agency is about tomorrow.

If we stayed put and drafted LenDale or moved up and took Davis or Mario, we would get instant impact.

[rubaiyat]

Yeah he had a rotten SB.
In the AFC Champ game his rating was 124.9
Our QB's rating was 66.4

And we had 3 picks slip right through our defender's fingers...with Champ easily scoring a touchdown on his.

[ludo21]

This is great NEWS!!!

That means we WONT be getting a QB.

Great smokescreen shanny, awesome!

[BritBronco Maniac]

I love this trade we are now in great position, lets hope we don't blow it.

Unless there are further trades, the trade up is NOT for a QB or a DE, I don't think there will be any difference between the DE's or QB's available at no.22 and no.15

I'm hoping we are high enough to get Bunkley now, although it's possible he could go to either Cleveland or Philly. Ngata won't be there for sure.
We should also be pretty assured of having the choice of Lendale and De Angelo Williams. It's hard to deny that either of those two wouldn't make an immediate impact.

Of course my ideal situation would be to get Bunkley at 15 and Williams at 22.

If Bunkley is gone, and we take a RB at 15, then we could go DE at no.22, but after Hali's poor pro day his stock is sliding, and it wouldn't surprise me if we traded back a little in that situation and took Hali or Kiwi.
There would also be some pretty good TE's available in that situation, Pope and Lewes.

Being at no.15 also puts us high enough to get 1st choice of WR's, be it Holmes Or Jackson. I'm not too keen on that situation but it would appear logical.

[Broncos Rule]

Draft is for the future.

Free agency is for now.

Expecting that we will be able to "fill holes" through the draft will lead to disappointment.

Broncs will take "best player available" at 15.. Certainly if one of the "big 3" qb's is still on the board at 15, they probably qualify.

[Cito Pelon]

Wonderlic is just a quick screen test. It only gives an indication. Kind of like when you go to the family doc for a physical and he makes you read the eye chart. Just a cursory check.

I posted the Wonderlic questions on this board last year, and there's some tough stuff on that test, seeings how there's a time limit. I noticed a lot of people claimed they aced it. Yeah, right. A good Wonderlic score is fine, but a bad Wonderlic score is not a show-stopper.

[Cito Pelon]

i agree completely, which is why im not exactly thrilled right now.

we dont need to be dicking around with possible qb's who MIGHT play in 3-5 years.
we need to get a player or two in free agency that can help this team win now.

The team has a good young roster already. The FO has done an excellent job of balancing what needs to be done this year, and what needs to be done for the next 5 years. And FA is over for all intents and purposes.

[Hulamau]

Some would hate it, but I'd be allright with it. I seem to remember, right after the Rose Bowl, several here thought he was worthy of being the 1st pick in the draft.

His delivery is odd, but he's 6'5 so the talk about him getting that many passes batted down is overblown. He's mobile as hell and has a strong arm. He may be dumb as a post, but he can make plays on the field. I wouldn't cry if we landed him.


I'd definitely be alright with it ... BIg Time! Shanny might want to see if having Sir Vince breathing down Jake's neck could do a "Brees job" on Plummer and put him over the top for this year and maybe next winning a SB, and then have a primed and ready to take over superstud for the next 15 years as Plummer sails into the sunset of his career. That would be the kind of long-term contingency planning with possible near term upsides that makes a lot of sense.

Even after 9 years of some good play and improved performance by Plummer he nevertheless still has some FUNDAMENTAL weaknesses that may be insurmountable for going all the way, and its possible that Shanny may be waking up to the limitiations placed on the whole game plan and design of the team that catering to Plummer's weakeness entails. Perhaps if Jake doesn't make that next big leap this year we could then accelerate Young's development and have him start in '07.

Furthermore, we keep Young away from the Raiders (assuming we trade up once more right during the early first round clock and steal him from Greasy Al) which could be HUGE! Perhaps by throwing in Tater and another pick or two from next year, plus our #22 or #15, and still we could take a DE in a great position and a quality RB in the second round.

The very real possiblity that Young turns into an Elway-like figure on the field after a year or two of development could pose almost two decades of serious headaches and heart break for us if he is in Silver and Black.

Even if this going for a QB stuff is all a ruse, I'd still be in favor of trading up to get Young and then immediately trading him to someone like the Cardinals ( who cant see Warner as anything be a stop gap solution at QB) for their #10 spot and pick up Vernon Davis plus recoup another high pick in the process, just to keep Vince away from the Faiders!

[Hulamau]

Dude, Texas was undefeated- They went into OSU and won.
#2 Texas vs #4 Ohio State (Sep 10, 2005 at Columbus, Ohio)
Passing:18-29-2-270,
Rushing:20-76

#4 TEXAS vs #13 MICHIGAN (Jan 01, 2005 at Pasadena, CA)
Passing: 16-28-1-180
rushing:21-192
2 big time bowl games, to GREAT games. I would be nice to have a QB who played great in big games.

You can say talk a bunch of trash about VY, but saying he "One great college game" is silly.


Amen, the kid has got that something extra that you cant coach! And several reporters including the guy who spent several weeks and 8 hours of total interview time with Vince includign breaking down game film with him for the SI cover story last fall said the Wonderlic score is bogus as a reflection of his intelligence. He said, unlike many college prospects, Vince is very mature and quick on his feet ... mentally ... as well as physcially, and had no problem analysing the game tapes and conceptualizing nuances in various areas of life.

Terry Bradshaw likely couldn't have scored much higher than a 5 on the Wonderlic test, if they had developed and screened with such a test back then, and he made out alright as a starting QB :-).

[Odysseus]

The only time rookies make a difference is if they are top ten on the field. Never in the history of the draft has the top ten picks been the top ten players. It will always be that way ad nasuem amen.

Rookies can change a season. Ask Lenny Walls can DWill play ball.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I posted the Wonderlic questions on this board last year, and there's some tough stuff on that test, seeings how there's a time limit. I noticed a lot of people claimed they aced it. Yeah, right. A good Wonderlic score is fine, but a bad Wonderlic score is not a show-stopper.

Yep - I had three classes in college many years ago on employee testing methods and tests. The Wonderlic has been used for about 40-50 years. Questions change, but it is basically the same now as it was then.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yep - I had three classes in college many years ago on employee testing methods and tests. The Wonderlic has been used for about 40-50 years. Questions change, but it is basically the same now as it was then.

Yep. It wasnt developed to test football intelligence, but is a quick-hit general intelligence test kind of like the KBIT. It obviously isnt a good predictor of overall success as a QB. Marino sure could read defenses well.

[Popps]

Draft is for the future.

Free agency is for now.

Expecting that we will be able to "fill holes" through the draft will lead to disappointment.

Broncs will take "best player available" at 15.. Certainly if one of the "big 3" qb's is still on the board at 15, they probably qualify.


Bingo.

We haven't drafted an immediate impact player in the first round since... well, I can't even remember. We got lucky with a couple of RBs in later rounds, but we rarely see immediate production. Williams made a contribution this year, but was hardly a team-changer. Maybe in a couple of years, but that's not what we're talking about.

For some reason, it's incredibly difficult to get a lot of people around here to understand the difference, and why some of us are a little disappointed with the off-season, thus-far.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Yep. It wasnt developed to test football intelligence, but is a quick-hit general intelligence test kind of like the KBIT. It obviously isnt a good predictor of overall success as a QB. Marino sure could read defenses well.

It's a quick screening test. I liken it to reading the eye chart during a general physical.

[Broncojef]

Jake doesn't need a guy breathing down his neck he needs talent around him. This is similar to Reeves drafting tommy Maddox when Elway clearly needed high end talent to put the team over the edge. Our WR is average at best the RB we have are below average and the TE and O-Line have holes. Give the man some weapons and the Broncos will be fine.

The reason rookies don't impact our team is quite simply because Shanny never plays them, they always sit out a year. When given the chance I think Darrent was a star this year and did awesome as a rookie. Others in the first round should work out the same way. People go crazy when you say drafting a DE isn't a major concern right now and then want to use our top spots for a QB to hold a clipboard for two years? Just use the picks on good talent and start them this year and we will be fine, whether its a TE, a RB, a WR etc...

[Cito Pelon]

Bingo.

We haven't drafted an immediate impact player in the first round since... well, I can't even remember. We got lucky with a couple of RBs in later rounds, but we rarely see immediate production. Williams made a contribution this year, but was hardly a team-changer. Maybe in a couple of years, but that's not what we're talking about.

For some reason, it's incredibly difficult to get a lot of people around here to understand the difference, and why some of us are a little disappointed with the off-season, thus-far.

I guess you don't understand that the team didn't need an impact player from FA. If the team had to stand pat right now, they'd challenge for another AFC Title. They're that good.

[Broncojef]

Our Defense was strong enough to win a SB title last year our offense wasn't. We traded up for Offensive weapons and not a QB.

[Hulamau]

Our Defense was strong enough to win a SB title last year our offense wasn't. We traded up for Offensive weapons and not a QB.

No way Dude! We snuck into the AFC game with some gutsy play particularly by Champ and several major FUBARs by the Pats and then we got our asses kicked on both sides of the ball in our house!

We werent even close really, but we could be with the right mix of improvement in young players and some good Vets. Only a couple of Draftees are likely to make a major difference this year no matter who they are.

We should still win the AFC west going away but if we don't hit the jack pot in the draft and/or swing a deal for an impact vet in a trade of some sort, our odds of going all the way in 2006 aren't that great.

We lucked out BIG time with the lack of meaningful injuries last year and the odds of that happening two years in a row isnt that high. That's where bringing in some real difference makers can compensate.

Everyone's got the blueprint for beating our current line up from the Steelers and while few teams can pull it off, I'd be alot happier with some of those holes filled such as the freaking pass rush and a credible red zone pass attack, since everyone and their uncle will at least try to copy what the Steelers did.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No way Dude! We snuck into the AFC game with some gutsy play particularly by Champ and several major FUBARs by the Pats and then we got our asses kicked on both sides of the ball in our house!

We werent even close really, but we could be with the right mix of improvement in young players and some good Vets. Only a couple of Draftees are likely to make a major difference this year no matter who they are.

We should still win the AFC west going away but if we don't hit the jack pot in the draft and/or swing a deal for an impact vet in a trade of some sort, our odds of going all the way in 2006 aren't that great.

We lucked out BIG time with the lack of meaningful injuries last year and the odds of that happening two years in a row isnt that high. That's where bringing in some real difference makers can compensate.

Everyone's got the blueprint for beating our current line up from the Steelers and while few teams can pull it off, I'd be alot happier with some of those holes filled such as the freaking pass rush and a credible red zone pass attack, since everyone and their uncle will at least try to copy what the Steelers did.

No, that can't be true. By being 1 game away from the SB, it means that Denver was great and only needs a few tweaks.

FTR, I totally agree with this. Denver was not as good as their record indicated last year. Thank God KC has done nothing and SD got rid of their starting QB.

[2KBack]

No, that can't be true. By being 1 game away from the SB, it means that Denver was great and only needs a few tweaks.

FTR, I totally agree with this. Denver was not as good as their record indicated last year. Thank God KC has done nothing and SD got rid of their starting QB.

I disagree. Pittsburgh the year before barely won their divisional game and then got ****housed at home by the patriots. They basically stood pat that offseason and won it all this past season. There was overachieving talk then too, there's every reason to believe that Denver can do the same.

[Cito Pelon]

FTR, I totally agree with this. Denver was not as good as their record indicated last year. Thank God KC has done nothing and SD got rid of their starting QB.

Denver will do fine this year. It is god-awful hard to win a Title no matter how many All-Pros you have on your roster. I'm not happy with getting pretty much dominated at home in the AFC Title game at home, but I tend to think this same roster will know a few things better this year.

Dumping a guy like Pryce, who apparently was convinced getting out of bed the Broncos would lose helps a lot. I always hated to play with guys like that.

[Taco John]

Jake doesn't need a guy breathing down his neck he needs talent around him. This is similar to Reeves drafting tommy Maddox when Elway clearly needed high end talent to put the team over the edge.



Not at all similar.

[extralife]

No, that can't be true. By being 1 game away from the SB, it means that Denver was great and only needs a few tweaks.

FTR, I totally agree with this. Denver was not as good as their record indicated last year. Thank God KC has done nothing and SD got rid of their starting QB.

I'll agree with this also. We had no injuries last year, got lucky in the turnover department, and caught a lot of breaks. We're a good team and now we've got the blueprint to be a great team, but we need more players if we expect to be able to consistently pull it off.

[sirhcyennek81]

I'll agree with this also. We had no injuries last year, got lucky in the turnover department, and caught a lot of breaks. We're a good team and now we've got the blueprint to be a great team, but we need more players if we expect to be able to consistently pull it off.

Yes. Nearly tripling your INT total in one year is lucky. Those footballs just stuck to our players hands...

:Broncos:

[Cito Pelon]

I'll agree with this also. We had no injuries last year, got lucky in the turnover department, and caught a lot of breaks. We're a good team and now we've got the blueprint to be a great team, but we need more players if we expect to be able to consistently pull it off.

That's why teams stockpile draft picks.

[Clockwork Orange]

Yes. Nearly tripling your INT total in one year is lucky. Those footballs just stuck to our players hands...

:Broncos:

The most telling stat as to why the Broncos went 13-3 last year is turnover differential. They went from -9 in 2004 to +20 in 2005. The defense forced turnovers while the offense kept them to a minimum. That's not luck, that's execution.

They did catch a break as far as injuries go. The biggest of which being that Champ Bailey is one tough sonsabiatch and played through a dislocated shoulder and nagging hamstring injury for most of the season.

[UboBronco]

I am all for trading up and getting a QB.... How often on this forum, have people complained about not having the top flight QB, this may be our chance, as was pointed out in another thread, the Broncos are the only team in like the last 12 years not to have a draft pick in the top 12 of ANY draft. We have the 2 picks, and if Shanny feels any of the 3 (Lienert, Cutler, or Young) is the total future. I am all for it. I hope IF it happens, it is Young, I just think he is a special talent. Next Cutler, and though many on here would disagree, I think Lienert is not mobile enough for our system.

[extralife]

The defense forced turnovers while the offense kept them to a minimum. That's not luck, that's execution.

It's half and half, at best. I say it was a lot of luck, but now we also know that's our blueprint for success. If you look at our gameplan last year, it was entirely built around not turning the ball over on offense, and looking to force the turnover on D. If that works, great, but if it doesn't, you're screwed.

Look at our defense. In order to up that interception number, what did we do? We blitzed like madmen to get pressue, and we had our CBs lay off of receivers so they could jump routes. When that works, it's nice, but when it doesn't, you have a bunch of open receivers on hot routes and a QB with enough time to ge the ball off. There's a reason we were statistically one of the worst teams against the pass last year, and it had nothing to do with poor talent.

[maher_tyler]

I don't think a damaged Culpepper is worth that much consideration to be honest. He might be...but at first glance I don't see the Broncos making him ANY kind of priority. What's he going to do? Backup Jake? We are going to Bench Jake for a one legged purple people eater? I don't get it.

The top three COULD fall that far. I think the whole thing is to SAY you after a QB and see who starts to going for it. Why not? Give takes Vince who was on the fence. Cool. Now something else drops to the Broncos. TE, DE, or DT are my wish list.

COULD but i highly doubt it! The Saints got Brees so there gonna prolly draft something other than a QB. Next in line who would draft one of the top 3 QB's is Tennesse who will prolly take Lienart or Young, next in line after that to take a QB is MAYBE NY Jets, who would take any of the top 3, other teams who could take a QB if it's one of the top 3 is Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, and definitly Baltimore! There are a few teams who could really use a QB in the draft who draft before us...i'm thinking we'll take a TE or DL with the 15th and maybe with the 22nd take a RB...who knows Ted Sudquist doesn't even know!
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5412

Heres the draft order as of 22 March:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9137410

[Clockwork Orange]

It's half and half, at best. I say it was a lot of luck, but now we also know that's our blueprint for success. If you look at our gameplan last year, it was entirely built around not turning the ball over on offense, and looking to force the turnover on D. If that works, great, but if it doesn't, you're screwed.

Look at our defense. In order to up that interception number, what did we do? We blitzed like madmen to get pressue, and we had our CBs lay off of receivers so they could jump routes. When that works, it's nice, but when it doesn't, you have a bunch of open receivers on hot routes and a QB with enough time to ge the ball off. There's a reason we were statistically one of the worst teams against the pass last year, and it had nothing to do with poor talent.

Wait, if that's what the Broncos schemes were designed to do, how is it luck that they came up with all of these turnovers? Seems to me that the schemes worked just as they were supposed to as the results would indicate. Yes, they gave up more passing yards than any of us would like to see, but they also came up with timely interceptions that completely swung the momentum of games.

The Broncos played to their strengths and got more out of this group of players than anyone thought they would. Sorry, but I refuse to give even half the credit for that to good fortune.

[extralife]

Turnovers are an inherently luck based stat. You can try your best to get them, yes, but sometimes those bounces just aren't going to go your way. See the 03 and 04 Broncos for examples.

[eddie mac]

It was nothing to do with luck. Our defense and special teams last year were awesome apart from 2 games, KC away and the AFC Championship game, dont count Miami more like a pre-season game. On the other hand our offense was conservative and a lot less effective for most of the season. When we were able to run we were dominating, towards the end of the season the run game stuttered and stumbled into the playoffs and was one of the reasons we never made Detroit. I remember quite a few games last year when our defense kept teams at bay whilst our offense stuttered for most of the 2nd half. We were dominating teams then letting them get back in games because we couldn't kill teams off with our lacklustre offense. That's why I'm still 100% sure that Shanahan really wanted at least 1 offensive playmaker in free agency be it a RB or WR.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It was nothing to do with luck. Our defense and special teams last year were awesome apart from 2 games, KC away and the AFC Championship game, dont count Miami more like a pre-season game. On the other hand our offense was conservative and a lot less effective for most of the season. When we were able to run we were dominating, towards the end of the season the run game stuttered and stumbled into the playoffs and was one of the reasons we never made Detroit. I remember quite a few games last year when our defense kept teams at bay whilst our offense stuttered for most of the 2nd half. We were dominating teams then letting them get back in games because we couldn't kill teams off with our lacklustre offense. That's why I'm still 100% sure that Shanahan really wanted at least 1 offensive playmaker in free agency be it a RB or WR.

I agree with your take on the offense. Not so much about a WR, but I think that Shanny wants an offensive playmaker.

[errand]

It would be huge to land either Cutler or Leinart...

Texas S Mike Huff if available, will be the pick.

QB isn't a problem TJ...deal with it.

[maher_tyler]

The most telling stat as to why the Broncos went 13-3 last year is turnover differential. They went from -9 in 2004 to +20 in 2005. The defense forced turnovers while the offense kept them to a minimum. That's not luck, that's execution.

They did catch a break as far as injuries go. The biggest of which being that Champ Bailey is one tough sonsabiatch and played through a dislocated shoulder and nagging hamstring injury for most of the season.

Good call...anytime Champ Bailey gets an INT that's not luck, it's called him reading the play and making a break on the ball etc. the playoff game when he took it damn near 103 yards for a TD! Not to mention the D-line getting presure on the QB forcing him to make a bad throw so it's ridiculous to say there lucky...there really is no lucky turnover, the only real lucky turnover is when a player take for instance Q. Griffin a couple of years ago when he just decided to drop the ball, the game VS Jacksonville...thats a luck TO!

[errand]

It would be huge to land either Cutler or Leinart...

If Mike drafts a QB on day one, I think he'll go for Brodie Croyle of Alabama....but QB isn't a problem. We need a playmaking safety and an edge pass rusher on D...and a playmaking WR on O. Mike will draft a playmaking TE before he drafts a QB.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

It was nothing to do with luck. Our defense and special teams last year were awesome apart from 2 games, KC away and the AFC Championship game, dont count Miami more like a pre-season game.

The D was not awesome. The pass rush was absolutely terrible and they were exposed by any offense that could pick up the blitz. It was more than just 2 games, how many 2nd halfs was the defense picked apart?

[errand]

I don't agree at all. Is it a slap to Champ to draft 3 CB's last year?
No of course not.

Plummer defenders all talk about "what a down to earth guy he is" this would not be a slap to a down to earth guy.

Big difference....

When you're a perrenial all-pro like Champ Bailey and your team drafts 3 CB's in the 2nd and 3rd round...you wonder who is lining up opposite of you on the other side.

When you're a QB of Jake's talent who is maligned by guys like TJ despite 3 consecutive playoff appearances, and your team drafts a QB in the 1st round?

[sirhcyennek81]

The D was not awesome. The pass rush was absolutely terrible and they were exposed by any offense that could pick up the blitz. It was more than just 2 games, how many 2nd halfs was the defense picked apart?


How often were we picked apart when the game was still in the balance? Our defense was fantastic, and got thrown on more then anyone else in the NFL. That says alot about our front 7. Swear, people make it sound like we won 3 games instead of 13.

:Broncos:

[eddie mac]

The D was not awesome. The pass rush was absolutely terrible and they were exposed by any offense that could pick up the blitz. It was more than just 2 games, how many 2nd halfs was the defense picked apart?

It was the main reason we were 13-3 Herc and won the AFC West, the defense did take a few 2nd halves off because Denver were so far ahead in games, i.e NE, Philly etc, but that was partly the offenses fault because they kept the D on the field for long periods with their innability to move the ball in the 2nd half. Blitz schemes were figured out by half-time, IMO they were awesome in comparison to a very conservative offense.

[Play2win]

It was the main reason we were 13-3 Herc and won the AFC West, the defense did take a few 2nd halves off because Denver were so far ahead in games, i.e NE, Philly etc, but that was partly the offenses fault because they kept the D on the field for long periods with their innability to move the ball in the 2nd half. Blitz schemes were figured out by half-time, IMO they were awesome in comparison to a very conservative offense.
YEP, The Defense saved Jake's ARSE last year...

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and how many teams did they let back into the game? How many games did the D actually end rather than survive?

[RMT]

If Mike drafts a QB on day one, I think he'll go for Brodie Croyle of Alabama....but QB isn't a problem. We need a playmaking safety and an edge pass rusher on D...and a playmaking WR on O. Mike will draft a playmaking TE before he drafts a QB.

I sure hope Shanahan's listening to all of our suggestions :)
I agree with your post 100%

[broncohaven]

Exactly.
I honestly wouldn't be suprised to see us move back down to early 20's and get our third rounder back during the draft.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard so far. We just got a great deal, and instead of taking advantage of it you want to add an extra 3rd round talent instead of one of the top 15? That's absurd. Do you realize how much third round talent we have sitting on our bench right now? What we need are franchise players, not more mid level role players.

[yavoon]

Turnovers are an inherently luck based stat. You can try your best to get them, yes, but sometimes those bounces just aren't going to go your way. See the 03 and 04 Broncos for examples.

turnovers over an entire season aren't that much luck. in any one game they can have a pretty high variance, but not an entire season.

[Hulamau]

Not at all similar.

Aint that the truth Taco! Comparing Vince Young to Tommy Maddox, even by analogy, and Jake to Elway is a major stretch all around :rofl:

[anthonypacino]

I sure hope Shanahan's listening to all of our suggestions :)
I agree with your post 100%
Croyle will be a late 2-3rd we won't have to burn a 1st on him

[broncohaven]

Croyle-Young hmm let me see....are you serious. That's like test driving a ferrari and buying ford escort. Does anyone really care that you saved money? You're still driving a POS.

[Odysseus]

Turnovers are an inherently luck based stat. You can try your best to get them, yes, but sometimes those bounces just aren't going to go your way. See the 03 and 04 Broncos for examples.

I don't think a lot of people got this idea. I understand completely what you are saying. This IS a luck based stat because a lot of it depends on team attitude or mindset. It's like tackling. Didn't we cover this when we talked about the Swiss (pronounced Cheese) Chiefs defense was talked about ad nasuem last year? This is why Oskie is a mantra. It has more to do with LOOKING FOR THE BALL than it does anything else. In bad years don't you notice how many balls hit there hands and they have this puzzled look on their face?

[RMT]

Croyle will be a late 2-3rd we won't have to burn a 1st on him

Have you seen the scoop on Croyle? He's torn the ACL in BOTH knees and is primarily a pocket passer - not one to scramble out of the pocket. I find it hard to believe the Broncos would pick him. Of course, I could be wrong but it just doesn't appear to me to be a good fit.

[RMT]

Croyle-Young hmm let me see....are you serious. That's like test driving a ferrari and buying ford escort. Does anyone really care that you saved money? You're still driving a POS.

Comparing VY to a Ferrari? ... that's a stretch.

[Odysseus]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard so far. We just got a great deal, and instead of taking advantage of it you want to add an extra 3rd round talent instead of one of the top 15? That's absurd. Do you realize how much third round talent we have sitting on our bench right now? What we need are franchise players, not more mid level role players.

Think about it. It's draft day. Anything can happen. If the Broncos cannot get the guys they are after and somebody offers you and even more lucrative trade by going back down. You wouldn't take it? You would rather get another CB because that is the best available player?

[anthonypacino]

RMT, I saw the post where you agreed with someone 100% on their ideas, and he said that Shanny will take Croyle in the first...I don't think he is that talented, thats why I said Shanny would not take him with a 1st

[broncohaven]

Comparing VY to a Ferrari? ... that's a stretch.
How so?

[broncohaven]

Think about it. It's draft day. Anything can happen. If the Broncos cannot get the guys they are after and somebody offers you and even more lucrative trade by going back down. You wouldn't take it? You would rather get another CB because that is the best available player?
We can get all the third round talent you want, and the sideline cameras can get them in all one shot as they sit on the bench together. How is that value?

[Man-Goblin]

Croyle-Young hmm let me see....are you serious. That's like test driving a ferrari and buying ford escort. Does anyone really care that you saved money? You're still driving a POS.

hey! my first car was an escort....but yeah, it sucked, and it broke down all the time.

[Orange_Beard]

And we had 3 picks slip right through our defender's fingers...with Champ easily scoring a touchdown on his.

I thought your first post was dumb, this one is even dummer. If, if, if, how many points did Champs almost touchdown count as?

In the first half they were something like 8 of 10 on third downs. Some of them long conversions. Guy made all the throws.

[Orange_Beard]

I disagree. Pittsburgh the year before barely won their divisional game and then got ****housed at home by the patriots. They basically stood pat that offseason and won it all this past season. There was overachieving talk then too, there's every reason to believe that Denver can do the same.


Good post. One difference is they had a stud QB who was developing....I think ours has peaked.

[DBroncos4life]

Comparing VY to a Ferrari? ... that's a stretch.
I think its like test driving a Countach only to find out after you bought it its a kit car on top of a Fiero with a 350 engine in it. While it may still look cool, and it might have some speed to it, it sure as hell isn't what you paid for.

[DBroncos4life]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8926/wd200404090429rr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Theres Young, a Fiero frame with a Ferrari Body kit on it. ROFL!

[Orange_Beard]

Not at all similar.


Agree....
Elway = Plummer
Madducks=VY

Not that is funny.

[Orange_Beard]

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Vince Young threw sideline passes, deep routes and across the middle. Some were touch passes, others he fired as hard as he could.

Almost all were on target.

The former Texas quarterback worked out for 30 minutes Wednesday in front of more than 100 NFL scouts, coaches and executives who are paying close attention to the quirky throwing motion that still raises questions despite delivering a national championship.

"Very impressed," said new Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak, whose team owns the No. 1 pick. "The kid put on a show."

Kubes like him.....

[RMT]

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Vince Young threw sideline passes, deep routes and across the middle. Some were touch passes, others he fired as hard as he could.

Almost all were on target.

The former Texas quarterback worked out for 30 minutes Wednesday in front of more than 100 NFL scouts, coaches and executives who are paying close attention to the quirky throwing motion that still raises questions despite delivering a national championship.

"Very impressed," said new Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak, whose team owns the No. 1 pick. "The kid put on a show."

Kubes like him.....

Smokescreen ... anyone wanna trade up to the #1 pick overall? If so, the Texans are listening.

[RMT]

RMT, I saw the post where you agreed with someone 100% on their ideas, and he said that Shanny will take Croyle in the first...I don't think he is that talented, thats why I said Shanny would not take him with a 1st

I should have said 99.9% ... I agree that "QB isn't a problem" so I think all of the "Broncos pick a QB on day one" talk is just that - talk. If it happens, and that's a BIG "if", it'll mean that the Broncos got a player who dropped significantly and that it's steal to get him, much like the highway robbery the Broncos committed to move up to #15 this week ... :thumbs:

[BroncoBuff]

Texas S Mike Huff if available, will be the pick.

QB isn't a problem TJ...deal with it.

Agree ..... and .... agree.

[fontaine]

we dont need to be dicking around with possible qb's who MIGHT play in 3-5 years.
we need to get a player or two in free agency that can help this team win now.

FA is gone.

Who cares about possible qb's who MIGHT play in 3-5 years?

:rofl:

Yeah, it sure didn't help the Bengals and Steelers to draft a QB in the first round.

They drafted Palmer and Roeth and all it got the Bengals was their entire franchised did a 180 by starting to win again and all the Steelers got was a lousy SuperBowl.
:loser:

[errand]

RMT, I saw the post where you agreed with someone 100% on their ideas, and he said that Shanny will take Croyle in the first...I don't think he is that talented, thats why I said Shanny would not take him with a 1st

You need to work on your reading comprehension anthonypacino.

I never said Mike would draft him in the first round. I said if Mike were to draft a QB on day one (Rounds 1-3) it would be Croyle.....and then listed why he wouldn't take a QB at all. too many pressing needs and holes to fill elsewhere.

[errand]

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Vince Young threw sideline passes, deep routes and across the middle. Some were touch passes, others he fired as hard as he could.

Almost all were on target.

The former Texas quarterback worked out for 30 minutes Wednesday in front of more than 100 NFL scouts, coaches and executives who are paying close attention to the quirky throwing motion that still raises questions despite delivering a national championship.

"Very impressed," said new Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak, whose team owns the No. 1 pick. "The kid put on a show."

Kubes like him.....

Great...now let's see him do it with NFL LB's and DT's and DE's coming after him.

[Taco John]

Texas S Mike Huff if available, will be the pick.

QB isn't a problem TJ...deal with it.



Deal with what? I'm not the one who said Shanahan is taking a QB in round one, ESPN News did. I wouldn't complain if we did. But I'm all for picking up Mario too.

I don't know what your problem is. You seem to delight in "getting me" on things, even when you're making reaches, or even making things up.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Wait, if that's what the Broncos schemes were designed to do, how is it luck that they came up with all of these turnovers? .

2003 Chiefs

[bloodsunday]

I highly doubt it.

This 100% percent Shanny smokescreen. There isnt even a QB projected to go anywhere from the middle of Round 1 to the middle of Round 2.
Agreed. Cutler's stock is rising too quickly. Denver will have to move up into the top 10 in order to make that happen. And even if they do, why wouldn't they do it for a position of need (DE, WR, TE, RB)? If Cutler were to slip to 15, then that would be different.

[Drek]

Seriously, a 10 page thread on us taking a QB? Jake's contract has three more years and we cut two reliable backups (Kanell and Mauck) to hand the clipboard to BVP last year.

We might take a QB later in the draft, we might take a QB if Cutler or Young goes into freefall and winds up at 15 or 22. Outside of that, nope, not happening. You don't draft high round QBs to then watch them ride pine for two or three seasons.

We'll start the "QB of the Future" search next year and if no one impresses it'll be put off until '08. Personally, I think we'll make Brady Quinn or Mike Stanton high priority targets going into next year's draft, and so it wouldn't surprise me if we traded the 22nd pick for an '07 first and some extra late picks in this year's draft.

[Odysseus]

COULD but i highly doubt it! The Saints got Brees so there gonna prolly draft something other than a QB. Next in line who would draft one of the top 3 QB's is Tennesse who will prolly take Lienart or Young, next in line after that to take a QB is MAYBE NY Jets, who would take any of the top 3, other teams who could take a QB if it's one of the top 3 is Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, and definitly Baltimore! There are a few teams who could really use a QB in the draft who draft before us...i'm thinking we'll take a TE or DL with the 15th and maybe with the 22nd take a RB...who knows Ted Sudquist doesn't even know!
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5412

Heres the draft order as of 22 March:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9137410

Thanks for posting.

[BMarsh615]

If they moved up to take Cutler I'd put my foot through my television. He's been the most overhyped player in this draft.

I could live with it if it were Leinart or Young, but no f'n way on Cutler.

:thumbsup:

[Dukes]

I bet your wishing this post was deleted. Ha!

[Dukes]

I'll go on record right now you b****! Cutler will have a more successful NFL career than Leinart!!!

You may be a welcher, but atleast you got this one right.

[vancejohnson82]

wow, lots of Cutler hate in this thread

[theAPAOps5]

I bet your wishing this post was deleted. Ha!

Not as much as Orange 4 Life and his meltdown post.

Sometimes it feels so good to be so wrong.

[tsiguy96]

best thread ever. bob actually made a correct prediction, clockwork and ro look like idiots, tons of young loving and cutler bashing.