If the Broncos are shut out in Free Agency, are they a worse team than '05?

[montrose]

Considering T.O. could be headed to Dallas and Abraham could sign elsewhere, if the Broncos are shut out from Free Agency this offseason; are they a worse team than the one that was blown out in the AFC Championship?

Consider that in this offseason the Broncos have released three players: their leading rusher, leading sacker, and 3rd leading receiver. They have not added any players as of yet.

Many are pinning their hopes on having two first round picks in this years draft. So I ask, after the addition of two first round picks and the subtraction of three contributors; would the Broncos have made the necessary moves to make up the difference from a 17 point loss in the AFC Title Game to winning the Super Bowl this year?

[Garcia Bronco]

No

[Bronco_Beerslug]

To this point, absolutely!

[OrangeShadow]

If we're shut out in free agency? No
If we draft horribly along with that? yes

[Garcia Bronco]

You'd have to be a complete moron to think we're any better or worse than the past 3 years. Our success or failure comes down to one guy...and he's walking into his 4th season here.

[fontaine]

You'd have to be a complete moron to think we're any better or worse than the past 3 years. Our success or failure comes down to one guy...and he's walking into his 4th season here.

I would actually say the opposite. The Plummer has been very much insulated against this offense and vice versa.

Our offense is more dependant on the OL/Rod Smith than Plummer.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You'd have to be a complete moron to think we're any better or worse than the past 3 years. Our success or failure comes down to one guy...and he's walking into his 4th season here.
"You'd have to be a complete moron" to not realize losing our starting RB, TE and DE leaves us less of a team right now, than what we were.

[broncohaven]

I see Dayne as an upgrade to MA. Putzier's liability as a blocker devalues his receiving stats, and I think his production will be easily replaced. I think that losing Pryce is the best thing to happen to our DL in years.

No one in the AFC west has done much except for the Chargers who have taken a large step backwards by letting Brees go. The Chiefs are a year older. The Raiders are a mess. I don't think we've lost much ground to the rest of the league, and within the division we're better than we were last year.

I assume we'll add at least one impact player through the draft or FA, and that's all the team needs.

[hades]

I dunno, who would have thought we went to the AFC Championship game last year?

[eddie mac]

At the moment I'd say we are a weaker unit but hopefully come the end of April we'll be a bit stronger.

[Garcia Bronco]

"You'd have to be a complete moron" to not realize losing our starting RB, TE and DE leaves us less of a team right now, than what we were.


All three of those players can be replaced. And Jeb was barely a starting TE. Pryce doesn't get it done, and Mike, God Love Him, just isn't the back that Ron Dayne can be. So at the end of the day.....we're still as good as we were at the end of the season because the guys the make us good are still on the roster.

[Garcia Bronco]

I would actually say the opposite. The Plummer has been very much insulated against this offense and vice versa.

Our offense is more dependant on the OL/Rod Smith than Plummer.

The offense is most dependent on the QB position. Without the QB the WR nor RB can get the ball. That's not to down play the importance of the OL...they open the holes and protect the QB. Guess what...the OL...Rod...and Plummer are all still on the team.

[eddie mac]

I assume we'll add at least one impact player through the draft or FA, and that's all the team needs.

Time you took your orange blinkers off. At this present time this team has question marks at RB, WR, huge hole at TE, DE and no speed/coverage skills at safety. Unless you can find a player in the draft/FA that can fulfill all those areas then I think we'll need more than 1 playmaker.

[fontaine]

"You'd have to be a complete moron" to not realize losing our starting RB, TE and DE leaves us less of a team right now, than what we were.

Sure on those cuts we are weaker.

But factor in some young guys improving like Foster, DWill, DJ, Fox, Bell and it's debateable. Putz was unused in the red zone, if Terrell plays ok as a slot WR then that's where we'll match his production. Pryce didn't get sacks and was average against the run.

Anderson was the only true loss and we already have two guys here that have more upside than him.

[Garcia Bronco]

I dunno, who would have thought we went to the AFC Championship game last year?


I agree...I think getting into the playoffs makes us a good team. We've done it three straight years. We're a good football team.

[fontaine]

The offense is most dependent on the QB position. Without the QB the WR nor RB can't get the ball. That's not to down play the importance of the OL...they open the holes and protect the QB. Guess what...the OL...Rod...and Plummer are all still on the team.

Meh, I just think the OL and Rod are more important to this offense than Plummer. Plug in a Kitna, trade for Culpeppar, bring in Frerrote and Plummer is easily replaced.

[Garcia Bronco]

Meh, I just think the OL and Rod are more important to this offense than Plummer. Plug in a Kitna, trade for Culpeppar, bring in Frerrote and Plummer is easily replaced.


Not on 3 years of experience.

Kitna doesn't seem confident. Culpepper is a project. And Frerotte is done....I can't believe I'm going to say this....none are in the realm of Plummer inthe context of this offense....and maybe any offense.

[HEAV]

Freak'n homers crack me up...........

Denver has already failed to land one of there, outside, free agents. Since Feb. they have promoted that they needed a playmaker on both sides of the ball.

They, meaning Mike, once again has under estimated the market.

Just look at the current depth chart. Are you really confident with what you see?

Saying Dayne can be good, and Dayne being good are two different things. He was third string most of the year. Counting on him to be the man in 06 is rather risky. Seem's to me that Denver also didn't feel 100% confident in him. Going after Jamal was a sign of that.

Also putting the season's hopes on Jake is BS. Get him real threat's. Rod Smith will eventually hit the wall. Jake had a solid thing with Putz. he was Jake second WR, even though he is a TE.

So the Offense id down two starters that were very productive.

The defense? Ekuban in for Pryce..................

Denver needed to land 2 starting free agents. So far they have done little.

I'm not homering over keeping Lepsis and over paying for Warren.

They need a threat on offense and a pass rusher.

[fontaine]

Not on 3 years of experience.

Kitna doesn't seem confident. Culpepper is a project. And Frerotte is done....I can't believe I'm going to say this....none are in the realm of Plummer inthe context of this offense....and maybe any offense.

Very true. In the context of this offense and what Plummer does, those guys wouldn't match up.

But I think we're seeing the same thing from two different perspectives. What I'm saying is that if all four of these guys were available three years ago when we picked up Plummer, then Shanahan/Kubes would have taken a Kitna, or a Culpeppar, or Frerrote and catered the offense around those guys so the offense matched their strengths. And in that capacity since we dont' have a franchise QB, they are replaceable IMHO. Primarily because our offense does so much with the running game that the rest of the offense can be generated on what the QB does best rather than exposing him and having him throw the ball 35-40 times a game.

[BroncoInferno]

Freak'n homers crack me up...........

Pessimists trying to masquerade as realists crack me up.

You were one of the bitchers and moaners who told all of us who liked the moves we made last offseason that we were blind homers. Of course, the homers turned out to be right to the tune of a 13-3 record and an AFC Championship game appearance. Why not wait and see what happens from here? We might miss out on the big names, but Shanny has a history of doing very well when shopping in the bargain bin.

[broncohaven]

Time you took your orange blinkers off. At this present time this team has question marks at RB, WR, huge hole at TE, DE and no speed/coverage skills at safety. Unless you can find a player in the draft/FA that can fulfill all those areas then I think we'll need more than 1 playmaker.
I don't think Dayne is a ? compared to MA, at all. Dayne is younger, fresher, and a better fit for our system than MA. Putzier was a liability as a blocker, and Pryce was a dog in all but one or two games. Duke, as a rookie, was a better blocker than Putz, and will upgrade the running game. Jake has improved every year he's been here, and I expect nothing different next year.

We're at least as well of at WR and S as we were this year, and likely better with Terrell given a full pre-season and the further development of Devoe. We had two rookies at corner, who will be improved in their 2nd year. So overall the secondary is at least as good, and I think camp will reveal a new, and upgraded, starter opposite Lynch.

And what has anyone else in the division done to gain ground on us?

[Orange_Beard]

The back-up QB is very thin. I like BVP but if he has to play, we lose.

Why are people so high on Dayne? He hardly played last year. I don't get this at all - " and Mike, God Love Him, just isn't the back that Ron Dayne can be". If this is true why didnt he play last year?

[Garcia Bronco]

Freak'n homers crack me up...........

Denver has already failed to land one of there, outside, free agents. Since Feb. they have promoted that they needed a playmaker on both sides of the ball.

They, meaning Mike, once again has under estimated the market.

Just look at the current depth chart. Are you really confident with what you see?

Saying Dayne can be good, and Dayne being good are two different things. He was third string most of the year. Counting on him to be the man in 06 is rather risky. Seem's to me that Denver also didn't feel 100% confident in him. Going after Jamal was a sign of that.

Also putting the season's hopes on Jake is BS. Get him real threat's. Rod Smith will eventually hit the wall. Jake had a solid thing with Putz. he was Jake second WR, even though he is a TE.

So the Offense id down two starters that were very productive.

The defense? Ekuban in for Pryce..................

Denver needed to land 2 starting free agents. So far they have done little.

I'm not homering over keeping Lepsis and over paying for Warren.

They need a threat on offense and a pass rusher.

I mean really....I think you were like this last year. We will be fine.

[Mile High Shack]

I won't even read this thread

It's the 4th day of FA and people are talking about it being a failure already

LOL

what a joke

[Mile High Shack]

I mean really....I think you were like this last year. We will be fine.

that and he wasn't around much when we went to the AFC Champ game, but ever since we are losing the offseason superbowl, he sure is making his comments known

[Garcia Bronco]

that and he wasn't around much when we went to the AFC Champ game, but ever since we are losing the offseason superbowl, he sure is making his comments known

That's what he does...he's posting any and all information he finds out there. Which is cool. He wants us to make moves, and we aren't getting those moves. It leads to a degree of frustration. He was around during the season...he just didn't post much.

The draft will be the big deal this year...not free agency. We'll have to put out about 20 million in deals for the 1st round alone.

[Mile High Shack]

That's what he does...he's posting any and all information he finds out there. Which is cool. He wants us to make moves, and we aren't getting those moves. It leads to a degree of frustration. He was around during the season...he just didn't post much.

The draft will be the big deal this year...not free agency. We'll have to put out about 20 million in deals for the 1st round alone.

from the limited amount I know about football, the teams that build through the draft seem to have longer term success

FA is fine and all, but usually it just leads to overspending

Like

Darryl Gardner, Dale Carter, etc etc

I'd rather sit back and let the dust settle and concentrate on the draft, pick up a few good players for less money and build our team with the draft.

I mean winning the offseason superbowl is fine for hype, but what has it done for the Redskins since Snyder took over?

1 playoff win?

[HEAV]

Pessimists trying to masquerade as realists crack me up.

You were one of the b****ers and moaners who told all of us who liked the moves we made last offseason that we were blind homers. Of course, the homers turned out to be right to the tune of a 13-3 record and an AFC Championship game appearance. Why not wait and see what happens from here? We might miss out on the big names, but Shanny has a history of doing very well when shopping in the bargain bin.

Some of your are blind homers.

No what I said last year was "Denver blew their plan A". They had to resort to going cheap. Not to mention that the Browns had a fire sale. Mike held onto Trevor out of stuberness. To a fault it held this team back from making any impact moves!

This team performed well in 05. They won some close games. Those games could have gone the other way.

Last year's bargin players didn't realy blow the socks of this league. They played decent. Many, myself included, where happy to see Brown play all season and play well.

But once again the homers avoid the fact that this team got smacked in the Playoff game verse the Steelers.

Shanny also has had a history of taking risks, one that you need to make to win.

He has made some big plays in the past. Trading Portis. Trading a #1 for Gary Zimmerman, trading for Tony Jones, signing Habib.

Yes he has struck gold in such signings as Romo, Stink, Eddie, Alfie Williams, Crocket and others. But he also went for a big ticket like Neil Smith to get the team over the hump.

If I'm a Pessimist, then what are the people that trash Jake? Are they realists? Is it real to count on Rod to produce year in year out? Is it real to think that Dayne is the next flavor at RB?

It's great to get some cheap free agents to perform above expectations. But when your one game away from playing for a championsip, you should do whatever it takes to make it to the next level.

Hoping that last season success can be repeated again is homerism.

The other teams in the league, not just the AFC, are filling their weak spots. All Denver has done is create a few.

They need a pass rusher. Jake needs a weapon.

[Mile High Shack]

Some of your are blind homers.

No what I said last year was "Denver blew their plan A". They had to resort to going cheap. Not to mention that the Browns had a fire sale. Mike held onto Trevor out of stuberness. To a fault it held this team back from making any impact moves!

This team performed well in 05. They won some close games. Those games could have gone the other way.

Last year's bargin players didn't realy blow the socks of this league. They played decent. Many, myself included, where happy to see Brown play all season and play well.

But once again the homers avoid the fact that this team got smacked in the Playoff game verse the Steelers.

Shanny also has had a history of taking risks, one that you need to make to win.

He has made some big plays in the past. Trading Portis. Trading a #1 for Gary Zimmerman, trading for Tony Jones, signing Habib.

Yes he has struck gold in such signings as Romo, Stink, Eddie, Alfie Williams, Crocket and others. But he also went for a big ticket like Neil Smith to get the team over the hump.

If I'm a Pessimist, then what are the people that trash Jake? Are they realists? Is it real to count on Rod to produce year in year out? Is it real to think that Dayne is the next flavor at RB?

It's great to get some cheap free agents to perform above expectations. But when your one game away from playing for a championsip, you should do whatever it takes to make it to the next level.

Hoping that last season success can be repeated again is homerism.

The other teams in the league, not just the AFC, are filling their weak spots. All Denver has done is create a few.

They need a pass rusher. Jake needs a weapon.

not for nothin', but I'm pretty sure Wade Phillips traded for Zimmerman

[HEAV]

that and he wasn't around much when we went to the AFC Champ game, but ever since we are losing the offseason superbowl, he sure is making his comments known


That's the biggest bullsh*t comment ever.

[Mile High Shack]

That's the biggest bullsh*t comment ever.

you bitched all last off season too and we went 13-3, but I bitched too, but unlike you

I learned my lesson to sit back and relax

Let the skins overpay for marginal talent

[HEAV]

not for nothin', but I'm pretty sure Wade Phillips traded for Zimmerman


My bad. I was off on Zimmerman.

[HEAV]

you b****ed all last off season too and we went 13-3, but I b****ed too, but unlike you

I learned my lesson to sit back and relax

Let the skins overpay for marginal talent


I'll bitch every season about not getting the talent in here. Just like the Jake haters bitch about his bad throws even when the team wins!

Last year was cap issues. This year the cap money is their. Why not get the talent?

What many see has my bitching is my passion for winning and seeing the Broncos put the best team out there. I, unlike some one here, can't stand being and average football team.

13-3 wa great last year. Last year. 2006 starts 0-0.

As for the Skins spending spree. If Joe Gibbs is fine with it then maybe theres something to it.

Not saying field an all star team. But Jesus, get a Starter or two!

[eddie mac]

I don't think Dayne is a ? compared to MA, at all. Dayne is younger, fresher, and a better fit for our system than MA. Putzier was a liability as a blocker, and Pryce was a dog in all but one or two games. Duke, as a rookie, was a better blocker than Putz, and will upgrade the running game. Jake has improved every year he's been here, and I expect nothing different next year.

We're at least as well of at WR and S as we were this year, and likely better with Terrell given a full pre-season and the further development of Devoe. We had two rookies at corner, who will be improved in their 2nd year. So overall the secondary is at least as good, and I think camp will reveal a new, and upgraded, starter opposite Lynch.

And what has anyone else in the division done to gain ground on us?

I agree with some of what you're saying but in truth there's no guarantees that Terrell and Devoe will make it here.

This Bronco offense has been serverely limited over the last few seasons and at times has been non-existent when we cant run the ball.

The D kept us in many a game last year until the one that mattered when they had a bad day. If we could find the Pass Rusher and cover safety we need Denver's defense would be the best in the NFL.

Our offense is far too one dimensional and every NFL pundit/coach knows if we get behind in a game we are done and dusted. The only way you improve that is by giving Plummer more weapons. At the moment he only has Rod Smith in all honesty. A 1 TD WR doesn't count until he improves those numbers through his own upgrade in performance or he gets utilised more by the OC.

[watermock]

I really expected Carter to sign. We are like a bunch of expectant fathers waiting...waiting...waiting and chain smoking. I want a nice baby, not the afterbirth of Free Agency. Try that on as a visual in your mind. If you have never seen afterbirth, it's not pretty. Ha!

Sounds like Moulds will be trade bait, not released, or in the summer or it would of allready happened. And an even bigger surprise, T.O. wants big money. Go Figure That. Ha! Let him play games as the money dries up. I would think Dallas releasing MeShawn and having plenty of cap has him salivating. Parcells and T.O. Oil and Water...that should be a circus. Parcells probably thinks he can control him...maybe he can. I just don't think we are still in the running there. Maybe a trade and new deal for Moulds.

Shanahan has proven he's a gambler both on and off the field, so something will happen I think. Archuletta would of been a nice signing at least.

There is a reason both T.O. and Abe are still out there, they want mega money and we just don't have it, but we had enough for one or two. I'm dissapointed honestly. Carter seemed like the perfect fit. Argg...

I don't know if we are worse when we have some players that have gotten experience, things were looking good then the rain stopped and it dried up. With the cap jumping again next year I can't figure out the silence of the lambs deal at all. Shanahan himself said we needed one or two impact players, but he sat back and watched. We still have the draft, but they rarely make big impacts other than RB or DE their first year.

[Spider]

Poor Montrose , didnt have much to bítch bout last year ......... So now we are screwed if we dont bring in some Big name FA ?
you build your team through the draft , you supplement it through FA .......
question is how much supplementing do we have to do ?
I think our secondary will be outstanding ......wouldnt mind seeing some more depth @ Line backer ........
wouldnt mind see some moves on the Dline , screw Abraham ....he let the Jets down , no doubt in my mind he would do it to Denver .......
then the offense ..... not as important as defense .........
could use some talent @ WR , maybe TE.......

[Smiling Assassin27]

yes, they are worse. in effect, they have stayed the same. in this league, if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. nothing added has made this team better and so as others get better and we stay the same, we, in effect, become worse.

[Spider]

yes, they are worse. in effect, they have stayed the same. in this league, if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. nothing added has made this team better and so as others get better and we stay the same, we, in effect, become worse.
horse**** ......... some money hungry bad attitude FA is all you need to get better ? yeah that plan has worked for the Redskins since Snyder has taken over .......... this isnt baseball

[bendog]

GD, losing Pryce and MA will kill us. !!!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

horse**** ......... some money hungry bad attitude FA is all you need to get better ? yeah that plan has worked for the Redskins since Snyder has taken over .......... this isnt baseball
Hasn't worked so far for the Redskins but they just became the favorites to go to the SB in the NFC now.

[Mile High Shack]

Hasn't worked so far for the Redskins but they just became the favorites to go to the SB in the NFC now.

they would if they didn't have Brunnel starting for them

[Bronco_Beerslug]

they would if they didn't have Brunnel starting for them
Where did they finish last year with him?

[Rascal]

they would if they didn't have Brunnel starting for them

and if they actually had anybody decent lined up in the trenches.

They will be improved but I doubt they make it to the SB.

[Orange_Beard]

Hasn't worked so far for the Redskins but they just became the favorites to go to the SB in the NFC now.


Really? Brunell sure looked crappy in the play-offs.

[bronco militia]

is signing Warren, Dayne, Leach and Lepsis getting shut out of free agency?

[bronco militia]

Hasn't worked so far for the Redskins but they just became the favorites to go to the SB in the NFC now.


IMO, they were the favorite before Free Agency.

[Spider]

Hasn't worked so far for the Redskins but they just became the favorites to go to the SB in the NFC now.
NFC is a weak division , wouldthe Skins be a favorite in the AFC ?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Really? Brunell sure looked crappy in the play-offs.
What are you talking about? He was 22/37 for 250 yards, 1 TD and no INTs. He also had a pro bowl year in the NFC.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

NFC is a weak division , wouldthe Skins be a favorite in the AFC ?
A weaker conference, yes.
Not with the Colts and Steelers in the AFC but Seattle showed if you can get there, you have a chance to win.

[Old Dude]

It's too soon to tell whether the whole FA phase is a loss. Carter would have been a nice addition, but the money was probably too much.

I suspect we will go after one veteran wideout: Javon Walker or Eric Moulds would be the most likely. I think there's still a slight chance that the Broncos bring in Owens, but I think that possibility gets less likely every day.

They do have to be excited about the draft. It's not every year you have two number ones to play with, and this looks like a pretty solid class.

There's always a possibility that Putzier could re-sign, but I think he was overpaid to start with, and in this market, who even knows what he'd want?

I am not comfortable with Bell & Dayne as our only RBs. One of our draft picks is probably going to have to go in this area. But at least RBs tend to make an early impact.

If you look at some of the better teams in the days of the salary cap, the draft has still been a huge part of their success. That's where we need to hit one or two out of the park.

[Mile High Shack]

Where did they finish last year with him?

getting their butts handed to them in Seattle?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

getting their butts handed to them in Seattle?
No, the Steelers handed our ass to us, the Redskins were in their game until the end.

[Orange_Beard]

I guess you are right, I thought I remembered that that had a scoreing drought in the play-offs. That they had no scored a TD in X amount of quarters.

[watermock]

is signing Warren, Dayne, Leach and Lepsis getting shut out of free agency?

Yes it is...it's called re-signing your own players.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Where's Chris Hope? Why not, eh...

[MajikMan7]

Mike, God Love Him, just isn't the back that Ron Dayne can be.
Exactly

Career Stats
Dayne:
57 GS 1858 att 9462 yards 5.09 avg 88 tds

Anderson:
51 GS 865 att 3822 yards 4.4 avg 36 tds

Last season (Behind same o-line)
Dayne:
10 games 5.1 avg

Anderson:
15 games 4.2 avg

[Smiling Assassin27]

horse**** ......... some money hungry bad attitude FA is all you need to get better ? yeah that plan has worked for the Redskins since Snyder has taken over .......... this isnt baseball

talk about misunderstanding a point...money has nothing to do with it. it's about adding players that make you better. the broncos have not done this. they've kept players that made them good (in addition to cutting players that made them good) while other teams have added players that have made them better. the skins may or may not have made themselves better with their wad blowing spree but teams like the rams, giants, and titans got better while we stood pat.

[Spider]

A weaker conference, yes.
Not with the Colts and Steelers in the AFC but Seattle showed if you can get there, you have a chance to win.
so then we can agree that FA isnt a make or break deal as it is made out to be in this thread ....
Besides I cant wait to see D.Will and foxworth this year .....

[Rascal]

IMO, they were the favorite before Free Agency.

What has seattle done to be removed off the list?

Plus there is Carolina.

[watermock]

I have to respectfully dissagree.

It's too soon to tell whether the whole FA phase is a loss. Carter would have been a nice addition, but the money was probably too much.

6/30 wouldn't of been too much for a position of need especially if you could void the last year. This was a priority signing and we blew it somehow.

I suspect we will go after one veteran wideout: Javon Walker or Eric Moulds would be the most likely. I think there's still a slight chance that the Broncos bring in Owens, but I think that possibility gets less likely every day.

Any of those would be a needed addition. T.O. and the Share are playing games again. Go Figure.

They do have to be excited about the draft. It's not every year you have two number ones to play with, and this looks like a pretty solid class.

Now it's reported we are shopping a pick. WTF?

There's always a possibility that Putzier could re-sign, but I think he was overpaid to start with, and in this market, who even knows what he'd want?

Possibly, but maybe some bad blood here. No doubt, but he's not signed with the Jets.

I am not comfortable with Bell & Dayne as our only RBs. One of our draft picks is probably going to have to go in this area. But at least RBs tend to make an early impact.

I'm not concerned at all at RB. Bell, Dayne, Cobbs, Sapp can all run the rock. Even Kyle in an emergency. Hell even Rod Smith for that matter. heh. We will snag one middle rounds.

If you look at some of the better teams in the days of the salary cap, the draft has still been a huge part of their success. That's where we need to hit one or two out of the park.[/QUOTE]

[bronco militia]

Exactly

Career Stats
Dayne:
57 GS 1858 att 9462 yards 5.09 avg 88 tds



who's ass did you pull those numbers from?

[Spider]

talk about misunderstanding a point...money has nothing to do with it. it's about adding players that make you better. the broncos have not done this. they've kept players that made them good (in addition to cutting players that made them good) while other teams have added players that have made them better. the skins may or may not have made themselves better with their wad blowing spree but teams like the rams, giants, and titans got better while we stood pat.
yes you missed the point ....... what makes you better ? Depth ? or star players ?
lets look at this way we pay Abraham what he wants , He is a star ,comes with Big $$ , meanwhile we could sign 3 or 4 Michale Myers type of players , Role Players slip into and out of Rotation , we could sign them cheap also .....and in the NFL it always comes down to money .....and in Decemember it always breaks down to depth and health .........

[Rascal]

who's ass did you pull those numbers from?

LOL!!!

Hence the reason he is on ignore.

Those are probably his stats from college. They matter so much in the NFL.

[MajikMan7]

who's ass did you pull those numbers from?

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/rev/apr00/tailback-rondayne.asp

One of the most decorated athletes in college football...Durable, aggressive runner with sturdy legs...Runs with good body lean and balance...Changes speed smoothly and has an excellent upfield burst...Tough to stop inside when he gets the pads down...Solid blocker who knows how to shorten his stride through traffic...Recently timed at 4.65 in the 40-yard dash...His regular season game total of 6397 yards rushing established an NCAA Division 1-A record, breaking the previous mark of 6279 yards by Ricky Williams of Texas (1995-98)...Including bowl games, he became the first player in college annals to rush for over 7000 yards (7125) in a career, breaking the old Big Ten Conference record of 5589 yards by Ohio State’s Archie Griffin...Tied the NCAA all-time record held by Williams and Marcus Allen of Southern California with twelve 200-yard rushing performances...Also set Big Ten all-time records for most rushing attempts (1220), points (426) and 71 touchdowns (both rushing and total)...The Badgers compiled a 28-5 record in games he rushed for over 100 yards...Personally outrushed the opposing team 29 times in his 43 career starts...Became the fifth player in college history to rush for over 1000 yards in a season four times.

1999 Season...Unanimous All-American and All-Big Ten Conference first-team selection...Winner of the Heisman Trophy, Doak Walker Award and the Maxwell Award, as the nation’s top college player...Associated Press, Football News, The Sporting News and Walter Camp Foundation National Player of the Year...Became the first player in Big Ten annals to lead the conference in rushing three times...Despite missing six quarters of action, he finished second in the nation in rushing with an average of 169.5 yards per game...Became the first player in Big Ten history to lead the conference in rushing, all-purpose yardage and scoring in the same season...Tied a conference season-record by earning four Player of the Week honors...Carried 337 times for 2034 yards (6.0 avg) and 20 touchdowns...Added 9 yards on a reception...Scored 120 points...Averaged 170.3 all-purpose yards per game.

;)

[bronco militia]

LOL!!!

Hence the reason he is on ignore.

Those are probably his stats from college. They matter so much in the NFL.

that's what i figured, but I wasn't going to let it slip by...;D

[MajikMan7]

Those are probably his stats from college. They matter so much in the NFL.
No they are his career stats, college & pro combined, but if you are interested in his college stats here they are........

STATS GP GS NO YARDS AVG TD LONG GM/AVG
1996 13 09 325 2109 6.5 21 71 162.23
1997 11 11 263 1457 5.5 15 80 132.45
1998 11 11 295 1525 5.2 15 54 138.64
1999 12 12 337 2034 6.0 20 69 169.50
TOTAL 47 43 1220 7125 5.8 71 80 151.60

wow some impressive stats for a freshman....

[bendog]

yes you missed the point ....... what makes you better ? Depth ? or star players ?
lets look at this way we pay Abraham what he wants , He is a star ,comes with Big $$ , meanwhile we could sign 3 or 4 Michale Myers type of players , Role Players slip into and out of Rotation , we could sign them cheap also .....and in the NFL it always comes down to money .....and in Decemember it always breaks down to depth and health .........
Sitting out a playoff game sounds just so.... how can I put this ..... IHOP/Carterish.

[MajikMan7]

The answer to this offseason is this.......

3 years $3.15m

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:K82Zq5laXfp1xM:www.uwalumni.com/onwisconsin/Spring00/DayneDaughter.jpg

[bronco militia]

Sitting out a playoff game sounds just so.... how can I put this ..... IHOP/Carterish.


no doubt...

[Spider]

Sitting out a playoff game sounds just so.... how can I put this ..... IHOP/Carterish.
:rofl: ....... I cant wait for the draft this year .... I think we hit a few homeruns last year in foxworth and D will ....... cant wait to see what Shanny does with Dline

[Rohirrim]

We've lost our starting DE, RB and TE from last year. If they don't get replaced... I think your question answers itself.

[Atlas]

Considering T.O. could be headed to Dallas and Abraham could sign elsewhere, if the Broncos are shut out from Free Agency this offseason; are they a worse team than the one that was blown out in the AFC Championship?

Consider that in this offseason the Broncos have released three players: their leading rusher, leading sacker, and 3rd leading receiver. They have not added any players as of yet.

Many are pinning their hopes on having two first round picks in this years draft. So I ask, after the addition of two first round picks and the subtraction of three contributors; would the Broncos have made the necessary moves to make up the difference from a 17 point loss in the AFC Title Game to winning the Super Bowl this year?

Let the panic began...........They won't be shut out. All the high priced guys are gone but there are a lot of Quality players still out there.

[Smiling Assassin27]

yes you missed the point ....... what makes you better ? Depth ? or star players ?
lets look at this way we pay Abraham what he wants , He is a star ,comes with Big $$ , meanwhile we could sign 3 or 4 Michale Myers type of players , Role Players slip into and out of Rotation , we could sign them cheap also .....and in the NFL it always comes down to money .....and in Decemember it always breaks down to depth and health .........


Lepsis, Nalen, Warren aren't depth, they're starters. we lost depth at RB, TE, and DL. engelberger, another one of our current players, doesn't add to depth either--he only maintains what depth we had. keeping current players does not make us better. cutting current players and, as the question asks, if we're shut out in FA, we get worse. role players are important and necessary but it's still the Bradys, Wards, Steve Smiths, and stars that win the games. Abraham is not a star and picking him up would be a joke at his asking price. Even though some think all the big fish are gone, it's still early and Shanny gets the benefit of the doubt.

[bronco militia]

Lepsis, Nalen, Warren aren't depth, they're starters. we lost depth at RB, TE, and DL. engelberger, another one of our current players, doesn't add to depth either--he only maintains what depth we had. keeping current players does not make us better. cutting current players and, as the question asks, if we're shut out in FA, we get worse. role players are important and necessary but it's still the Bradys, Wards, Steve Smiths, and stars that win the games. Abraham is not a star and picking him up would be a joke at his asking price. Even though some think all the big fish are gone, it's still early and Shanny gets the benefit of the doubt.


good points but you and a lot of others are forgetting about the other half of the offseason: the draft.

[Spider]

Lepsis, Nalen, Warren aren't depth, they're starters.
and your point is what ?
we lost depth at RB, TE, and DL.Did we ? 10-6 without Pryce loss to the colts , 10-6 with Pryce lost to the Colts , Bring in the Browncos 13-3 lost AFC championship game ...... As for RB , No way in hell could you even question Shanny on running backs ........TE we will see


engelberger, another one of our current players, doesn't add to depth either--he only maintains what depth we had. only maintains what depth we have ? So is there a law that says we couldnt draft for the Dline ?

keeping current players does not make us better. cutting current players and
good thinking ....... and yes Iam being Sarcastic ..........

, as the question asks, if we're shut out in FA, we get worse. role players are important and necessary but it's still the Bradys, Wards, Steve Smiths, and stars that win the games. Abraham is not a star and picking him up would be a joke at his asking price. Even though some think all the big fish are gone, it's still early and Shanny gets the benefit of the doubt.
so much for the tried and proved theory you build your team through the draft ........ oh and the Bradys , Wards , Steve Smiths would be no where if not for the team , since when did the name on the back become bigger then the team

[Smiling Assassin27]

and your point is what ?
Did we ? 10-6 without Pryce loss to the colts , 10-6 with Pryce lost to the Colts , Bring in the Browncos 13-3 lost AFC championship game ...... As for RB , No way in hell could you even question Shanny on running backs ........TE we will see


only maintains what depth we have ? So is there a law that says we couldnt draft for the Dline ?


good thinking ....... and yes Iam being Sarcastic ..........


so much for the tried and proved theory you build your team through the draft ........ oh and the Bradys , Wards , Steve Smiths would be no where if not for the team , since when did the name on the back become bigger then the team

let's see. name the last d-lineman we drafted that was a) a starter and b)an impact player in his first year. the draft is great and we hit it big with fox and dwill last year but they're the exception, not the rule.

pryce was on that 13-3 team as well and played two positions. warren is not a role player. myers, veal, and engelberger were depth and they made the line better but if you put veal, engelberger, pope, and ekuban on the line, it's a joke. pryce, warren and brown are front line players and they're paid as such for a reason.

nobody said these stars won by themselves. but you put jamie martin on those pats teams and they go 8-8. take steve smith out of the lineup in carolina and they go 8-8. you take a star out and the team fails. you take a role player out and it's still possible to win it all.

[Orange_Beard]

Exactly

Career Stats
Dayne:
57 GS 1858 att 9462 yards 5.09 avg 88 tds

Anderson:
51 GS 865 att 3822 yards 4.4 avg 36 tds

Last season (Behind same o-line)
Dayne:
10 games 5.1 avg

Anderson:
15 games 4.2 avg

So if Dayne is better then Anderson, Why was he not on the field last year?
You are going to tell me that Shanny was not putting his best players on the field? I find that very hard to believe.

There were plently of times to work Dayne in. When Bell got hurt Shanny did not give Dayne his carries.

[12th man]

Let the panic began...........They won't be shut out. All the high priced guys are gone but there are a lot of Quality players still out there.
yup, the painic is starting. There is still good players out there. Not to mention the draft.The three people we lost are all replacable. They are even replacable with the players we have. We do need a threat at offense (WR) and one more playmaker on defense.(DE). We can get those things in the draft and FA. We still have options here. The offseason is not over. Plus, our main goal was to sign our people back. we were one game away from the sb. we don't need to panic and sign a **** load of players. We don't need that. we basically have the team that can win a championship.

[bendog]

So if Dayne is better then Anderson, Why was he not on the field last year?
You are going to tell me that Shanny was not putting his best players on the field? I find that very hard to believe.

There were plently of times to work Dayne in. When Bell got hurt Shanny did not give Dayne his carries.
Actually, Dayne did get Bell's carries in dallas. Anderson won the job in camp. The staff felt that with a full year in the system, Dayne would win the job in 06. Personally, I don't see much difference between the two guys.

[azbroncfan]

To answer the question all that was said here is speculation and only time will tell. Who knows what rookies we could draft and how much impact they will have, maybe some of the DL will step up, maybe they still can get a WR, it's shanny just sit back and see what happens, I'll bet that the team will be competitive regardless.

[eddie mac]

Take a look at our current roster and in particular the Defensive Line. Not one of them was drafted by the Broncos. Says a lot for your team when everyone from a particular unit originated from another NFL team.

[Orange_Beard]

Actually, Dayne did get Bell's carries in dallas. Anderson won the job in camp. The staff felt that with a full year in the system, Dayne would win the job in 06. Personally, I don't see much difference between the two guys.


Here is Dayne's line for the Dallas game.

R. Dayne 7 98 1 55

Of course he had 1 att in over time.
6 for the game is not Bell's carries.

[Orange_Beard]

Take a look at our current roster and in particular the Defensive Line. Not one of them was drafted by the Broncos. Says a lot for your team when everyone from a particular unit originated from another NFL team.


This is what gets me about the "Build throught the draft" idea.
Shanny has not been great in the draft. He has found some guys in the later rounds, but his early round drafting has not set the world on fire.

[fontaine]

Take a look at our current roster and in particular the Defensive Line. Not one of them was drafted by the Broncos. Says a lot for your team when everyone from a particular unit originated from another NFL team.

Yeah but under Shanahan we've only drafted 4, yes four, DL in the first day.

Dorsett Davis - Bust
Pryce - Pro Bowl Player
Heywerd - Solid DE
Toviessi - Injury Bust

That's four DL drafted in almost a decade which is crap. I don't think our drafting sucks in that area, just the fact the Denver just doesn't draft enough DL in the first day!

The team would rather take a chance on projects like McNeal, Hunt, Eason, Clint Mitchell, Pope etc rather than taking a chance on a big time DL.

The same thing happened last year, the year before that, and the year before that as well. Instead of drafting DL, we were willing to bring in retreads like Lett, Mcglockton, Keith Washington, Kavika Pittman, Gardener, Ellis brothers, Coleman etc etc.

Last year was the first time we had any luck with Brown, Myers, Warren, Ekuban. Hopefully we can build on that and draft a stud DL now instead of just throwing up sh*t on the wall blindly and hoping it sticks with 2nd day projects and FA journeyman.

[Spider]

let's see. name the last d-lineman we drafted that was a) a starter and b)an impact player in his first year. the draft is great and we hit it big with fox and dwill last year but they're the exception, not the rule i see so because we havent done it , means it cant be done ..... and why does he have to be a starter ? make an impact hisfirst year ? why cant he slip in and out of rotation ? you have some odd rules about drafting Dlinemen ........and Before Dwill and Fox everyone including myself thought Shanny couldnt draft corners ........ we all seen how that theory worked out .......

pryce was on that 13-3 team as well and played two positions. warren is not a role player. myers, veal, and engelberger were depth and they made the line better but if you put veal, engelberger, pope, and ekuban on the line, it's a joke. pryce, warren and brown are front line players and they're paid as such for a reason. they are paid like they are cause ofthier history , not thier lack of talent ........


nobody said these stars won by themselves. but you put jamie martin on those pats teams and they go 8-8. take steve smith out of the lineup in carolina and they go 8-8. you take a star out and the team fails. you take a role player out and it's still possible to win it all...... take steve Smith out of the line up 8-8 huh , seems to me when I last saw Carolinia play thier running game let em down

[Orange_Beard]

Yeah but under Shanahan we've only drafted 4, yes four, DL in the first day.

Dorsett Davis - Bust
Pryce - Pro Bowl Player
Heywerd - Solid DE
Toviessi - Injury Bust

That's four DL drafted in almost a decade which is crap. I don't think our drafting sucks in that area, just the fact the Denver just doesn't draft enough DL in the first day!

The team would rather take a chance on projects like McNeal, Hunt, Eason, Clint Mitchell, Pope etc rather than taking a chance on a big time DL.

The same thing happened last year, the year before that, and the year before that as well. Instead of drafting DL, we were willing to bring in retreads like Lett, Mcglockton, Keith Washington, Kavika Pittman, Gardener, Ellis brothers, Coleman etc etc.

Last year was the first time we had any luck with Brown, Myers, Warren, Ekuban. Hopefully we can build on that and draft a stud DL now instead of just throwing up sh*t on the wall blindly and hoping it sticks with 2nd day projects and FA journeyman.

What about Montae Reagor?

[bendog]

Here is Dayne's line for the Dallas game.

R. Dayne 7 98 1 55

Of course he had 1 att in over time.
6 for the game is not Bell's carries.
dayne pulled out the game in week 2 with 6 carries for 41 yds.

whenever bell didn't play, dayne got it done.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889/gamelogs/2005

But frankly, I'm curious about where you're coming from. You actually liked MA as the go to guy?

[fontaine]

What about Montae Reagor?

For some reason http://www.drafthistory.com/team-position/broncos.html has him drafted as a LB?!

Ha!

[bendog]

What about Montae Reagor?

Reagor works for Indy's system of undersized guys. The gamble is that Payaton will score so often, teams can't pound it inside. In Den, Reagor was initially tried at DE, but he couldn't cut it. He moved to DT where his speed could make some plays.

[bendog]

For some reason http://www.drafthistory.com/team-position/broncos.html has him drafted as a LB?!

Ha!
Wierd. Did he play upright in college? With Tex Tech, anything is possible, lol

[Spider]

dayne pulled out the game in week 2 with 6 carries for 41 yds.

whenever bell didn't play, dayne got it done.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889/gamelogs/2005

But frankly, I'm curious about where you're coming from. You actually liked MA as the go to guy?
I liked MA as a FB ..... I expect MA to be back next year

[jonny1]

You can't force a guy to sign with you. They brought in Carter, and the Skins offered him more than the Broncos were willing to pay (I guess).

You say Shanny has to sign an impact player on defense and offense. How many are there? Is Carter a sure-fire impact player? Worth breaking the bank for? Abraham is someone most people think is, but do you sell your future for that?

On offense, the only true impact player out there is a certified nutcase.

[JCMElway]

Time you took your orange blinkers off. At this present time this team has question marks at RB, WR, huge hole at TE, DE and no speed/coverage skills at safety. Unless you can find a player in the draft/FA that can fulfill all those areas then I think we'll need more than 1 playmaker.

RB -- We will draft one with a day one pick. If it's a first rounder, they compete for a starting job. If not, Bell and Dayne duke it out for #1.

WR -- I think we'll pick up J Walk or (god forbid) Keyshawn. Seeing a WR with the a first day selection would not surprise me, either

TE -- This is the deepest draft for TE in years. Securing a TE with a first day pick will also occur

So on the first day I see the Broncs taking a RB, WR, TE and DE (Not necessarily in that order.) If they see someone they value slip, they could trade up to get them. But I do believe that they have not been aggressive in the FA market because of the depth of this draft.

The Broncs could have a starter at some position being drafted as low as the 4th round.

[Spider]

I like Meshawn .....err Keyshawn , he would be viable target on 3rd downs

[Orange_Beard]

dayne pulled out the game in week 2 with 6 carries for 41 yds.

whenever bell didn't play, dayne got it done.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889/gamelogs/2005

But frankly, I'm curious about where you're coming from. You actually liked MA as the go to guy?


No on MA. Just not sold on Dayne.
Posters are saying he is better then MA. I have seen no proof.
This thread is "our the Broncos better?", I have read a few post saying that we are better without MA.
My first though was if Dayne is better then MA, why did he not play more last year?
From what I have seen from Shanny, when a player gets better, he gets on the field. Example would be DWilliams, Walls had the job, DWiliiams stepped it up, the job was his.
Dayne did not get on the field, a few carries here and there but he did not get MA's carries.

That's pretty much it, I had a reaction to "Dayne is better".

[Smiling Assassin27]

see so because we havent done it , means it cant be done ..... and why does he have to be a starter ? make an impact hisfirst year ? why cant he slip in and out of rotation ? you have some odd rules about drafting Dlinemen ........and Before Dwill and Fox everyone including myself thought Shanny couldnt draft corners ........ we all seen how that theory worked out .......


an 11 year track record is not something to be ignored. d-linemen that are impact players are far and few between in their first year. freeney and kearse aside, there aren't any. depth only brings a team so far. stars can put a team over the top or the wrong ones can kill a team. the draft is for the future, especially at d-line. a team with a moderate to decent pass rush got to the afc title game. that line now is missing a major contributor/starter who has not been replaced by ANYONE, let alone someone better. that tells me that the line is as good as last year's but not better.

they are paid like they are cause ofthier history , not thier lack of talent ........


their history IS their talent or lack thereof. engelberger gets paid what he does because his history isn't 1/10 of Pryce's history.


take steve Smith out of the line up 8-8 huh , seems to me when I last saw Carolinia play thier running game let em down

a statement that clearly only takes one game into account. take smith out of the lineup for a year, say, 2004, and superbowl team becomes 7-9. the numbers don't lie. take him out of 2005's lineup and they go right back to being also-rans.

[Orange_Beard]

Reagor works for Indy's system of undersized guys. The gamble is that Payaton will score so often, teams can't pound it inside. In Den, Reagor was initially tried at DE, but he couldn't cut it. He moved to DT where his speed could make some plays.


I was not saying anything about Reagor as a player, just he was a d-lineman we drafted that did not workout.

[broncsyanks]

we are weakened even more in our offense.
absolutely we are at a worse off yet on offense. lets see it this way. our offense suked in the afc championship game and our big time reciever was our TE who is now gone and our leading rusher is gone. I am not so spent on losing our running back but we lacked in the passing offense so much that our TE was the #3 and now he is gone. also lelie was figured out by the league last year. So now we have to be looking elsewhere. sorry i thought if we could get abraham and TO and some how keep puts we would have been deadly again. But we arent and to rely on some guys coming out of college who are not proven shows that we arent on course of what we need or should be doing-- getting a super bowl

[Rohirrim]

Here's what scares me: Trevor goes to Baltimore and cashes in 12 sacks next season. Then what?

[Rascal]

Here's what scares me: Trevor goes to Baltimore and cashes in 12 sacks next season. Then what?

Coyer gets fired. It will be obvious then it's his system and not the players.

[Spider]

an 11 year track record is not something to be ignored. d-linemen that are impact players are far and few between in their first year. freeney and kearse aside, there aren't any. depth only brings a team so far. stars can put a team over the top or the wrong ones can kill a team. the draft is for the future, especially at d-line. a team with a moderate to decent pass rush got to the afc title game. that line now is missing a major contributor/starter who has not been replaced by ANYONE, let alone someone better. that tells me that the line is as good as last year's but not better.Bullshít hell even Joe Montana was replaced , you dont know if Pryce will be replaced or not and to assume it cant be done on the draft is the exact same reason you are on a message board and not in a NFL draft room



their history IS their talent or lack thereof. engelberger gets paid what he does because his history isn't 1/10 of Pryce's history. Bullshít go look again , the browncos were injury prone .......




a statement that clearly only takes one game into account. take smith out of the lineup for a year, say, 2004, and superbowl team becomes 7-9. the numbers don't lie. take him out of 2005's lineup and they go right back to being also-rans.Again Bullshít ....... you need to understand that 1 phase of the game needs the other , but Push comes to shove the running game or a threat of the running game will carry the day ..

[bendog]

I'm thinking Dinner at Anton's would've been as productive as Pryce last year.

[rbackfactory80]

Definitely worse, next year I cant see us winning more than 5 games.

[Kaylore]

So I ask, after the addition of two first round picks and the subtraction of three contributors; would the Broncos have made the necessary moves to make up the difference from a 17 point loss in the AFC Title Game to winning the Super Bowl this year?
Depends on how our draft picks turn out.

[rubaiyat]

talk about misunderstanding a point...money has nothing to do with it. it's about adding players that make you better. the broncos have not done this. they've kept players that made them good (in addition to cutting players that made them good) while other teams have added players that have made them better. the skins may or may not have made themselves better with their wad blowing spree but teams like the rams, giants, and titans got better while we stood pat.

Rams and Titans had a long way to go. In some ways, they could ONLY get better.

We'll see on the effect on the Giants.

But saying bad team got better as an indictment on the moves of a good team is not a strong argument...I mean, with the cap and parity, some bad teams HAVe to get better....doesn't automatically make them contenders.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Absolutely they're worse. They might not have lost any stars, but they did lose 3 solid players.

[cutthemdown]

If the broncos stand pat with the team they have right now they won't do better then they did last year. Rod Smith is getting older, Lelie is what he is, and at RB we have Dayne who has never done it for us, and Bell who can't stay healthy. We have nothing at tight end and our dends got worst not better by losing Pryce. Counting on rookies to fill spots is always risky. The good thing is the rest of afc west hasnt really improved either yet so at this point I guess no reason to panic. But any bronco fans that say they are happy being one of the non participators in FA is probably lying.

[azbroncfan]

If the broncos stand pat with the team they have right now they won't do better then they did last year. Rod Smith is getting older, Lelie is what he is, and at RB we have Dayne who has never done it for us, and Bell who can't stay healthy. We have nothing at tight end and our dends got worst not better by losing Pryce. Counting on rookies to fill spots is always risky. The good thing is the rest of afc west hasnt really improved either yet so at this point I guess no reason to panic. But any bronco fans that say they are happy being one of the non participators in FA is probably lying.
Also consider Denver won some games last year they could of just as easily have lost, DAL, SD, Balt spring to mind off hand, I would be really surprised if they win 12 games next year but I do believe the AFC west can still be won.

[elsid13]

Wow, it 4 days into FA and where talking about be frozen out. It really hasn't been good crop of FA this year, and only FA DE worth talking about where Howard and Carter 0 both had issues. The WRs free agents have been weak or have problems. So at this point it very important we build thru the draft for play makers and find those gems in FA that none of us are talking about now.

[NFLBRONCO]

Absolutely they're worse. They might not have lost any stars, but they did lose 3 solid players.

I actually think we are the same as last year. With or without these players we needed UPGRADES. Be patient offseason moves are not over. Pryce MA And Putz hardly lit the world on fire I'm glad they are gone.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Denver has already failed to land one of there, outside, free agents. Since Feb. they have promoted that they needed a playmaker on both sides of the ball.

They, meaning Mike, once again has under estimated the market.


Mike has also not mastered the "get him to town first and don't let him leave until you have a deal" strategy of free agency.

[12th man]

This thread is depressing. we have too many pessimistic fans.

[Hulamau]

Considering T.O. could be headed to Dallas and Abraham could sign elsewhere, if the Broncos are shut out from Free Agency this offseason; are they a worse team than the one that was blown out in the AFC Championship?

Consider that in this offseason the Broncos have released three players: their leading rusher, leading sacker, and 3rd leading receiver. They have not added any players as of yet.

Many are pinning their hopes on having two first round picks in this years draft. So I ask, after the addition of two first round picks and the subtraction of three contributors; would the Broncos have made the necessary moves to make up the difference from a 17 point loss in the AFC Title Game to winning the Super Bowl this year?

Absolutely, no rookies can be counted on to make more than a minor improvement THIS year and THIS year is our best shot at winning it all ... or was until these guys in the front office had a collective giant mind fart when it came to free agency!

[rubaiyat]

we are weakened even more in our offense.
absolutely we are at a worse off yet on offense. lets see it this way. our offense suked in the afc championship game and our big time reciever was our TE who is now gone and our leading rusher is gone. I am not so spent on losing our running back but we lacked in the passing offense so much that our TE was the #3 and now he is gone. also lelie was figured out by the league last year. So now we have to be looking elsewhere. sorry i thought if we could get abraham and TO and some how keep puts we would have been deadly again. But we arent and to rely on some guys coming out of college who are not proven shows that we arent on course of what we need or should be doing-- getting a super bowl


Why? Cause we should make this squad into a fantasy football team? Would that please you?

Yes the college players are unproven, so are FA's in our system...or is every big FA signing result in a bonafide success?

[Hulamau]

Building through the draft is great if you are an 8 and 8 team, but a 13-3 team in the AFC chamipionship has GOT to go for it in this day and age!

The way these guys are going its clear they think 2005 was a fluke and that in reality our best chance to win it all lays somewhere in the future after we do some more 'rebuilding' through the draft and work these new guys into the NFL over a few years.

Of course by then PLummer, AL Wilson, Nalen and a bunch of others will be gone or on their last legs ... and so it goes!

Strike while the damn iron is hot!

[Mediator12]

I have yet to read this thread since I am getting my ass handed to me in survivor.

Please, just keep in mind that the Broncos are NOT going to be aggressive in the early High Priced FA after they have been burned by BIG name FA's in the recent past. This is a philosophy issue. Period.

If they are going to get some new faces, they are going to find players that can upgrade the current starters and make the team better. I wish Carter would have not gone after the ludicrous contract that the Redskins offered him, but he was only one guy. The Broncos will pick him up in few years after Snyder pays out the huge SB money ;D

They also have been more aggressive trading players than most teams in the current NFL. Just because Abraham wants huge coin does not mean he is going to get it. Also, that does not mean that there are not other options available. Broncos have used deception alot in recent years to keep people off track in order to get someone they want.

Face it. We all have expectations of what we want to see. That is what this forum is about. Frustration manifests itself in failed expectations. Try not to lean too hard on your expectations and you might actually enjoy some of this. All I know that I am enjoying the ride and I hope you all are too.

[broncohaven]

No on MA. Just not sold on Dayne.
Posters are saying he is better then MA. I have seen no proof.
This thread is "our the Broncos better?", I have read a few post saying that we are better without MA.
My first though was if Dayne is better then MA, why did he not play more last year?
From what I have seen from Shanny, when a player gets better, he gets on the field. Example would be DWilliams, Walls had the job, DWiliiams stepped it up, the job was his.
Dayne did not get on the field, a few carries here and there but he did not get MA's carries.

That's pretty much it, I had a reaction to "Dayne is better".
Offensive players hardly ever see the field in their first year in Shanahan's system regardless of their talent. It's as complex a system a there is in the league, and it takes awhile to digest. That's the only reason Dayne didn't start.

Every time Dayne got the ball, he came through huge for us. They gave Dayne the ball in week 2, and he gave us the game. MA was benched in Dallas, and Dayne gave us the game. I love MA, but he's a journeyman at best who had a great rookie year and couldn't stay helathy or win back the position until the Broncos were thin at RB.

Dayne was the most prolific runner in college history running in a zone blocking scheme. Once he knows the entire offense he'll be hands down a better back than MA.

Defense is a totally different scenario because there is a lot less information.

[Rausch]

The Steelers' big moves the last three years were drafting Rothlesburger, Polamalu, and Heath Miller while resigning Hines ward.

All players they drafted. The only high priced free agent I can even remember the Steelers signing was their Center years ago...

[Orange_Beard]

Offensive players hardly ever see the field in their first year in Shanahan's system regardless of their talent. It's as complex a system a there is in the league, and it takes awhile to digest. That's the only reason Dayne didn't start.

You seem to have forgoten,
Olandis Gary Rookie season
1999 Denver Broncos 12 12 276 1159
Mike Anderson Rookie Season
2000 Denver Broncos 16 12 297 1487
Clinton Portis
2002 Denver Broncos 16 12 273 1508

Three guys, all first year in Shanny's complex system, all rookies, all monster years. I would even bet that none of these guys had play in a zone blocking systems before.

[cutthemdown]

Broncos could improve in ways not as obvious as a new player. Darrent Williams and Foxworth will be in 2nd yr. If one or both can avoid sophmore slump and improve then we will be better at cb. DJ Williams will a have a full yr under his belt playing strongside linebacker and should feel more confident at that spot this coming year. PJ Alexander i think would have beaten out Cooper Carlisle and he could be healthy this yr either adding to starting oline or at least for depth. David Terrell may even be a good 3 wr if given a chance and he is in 2nd year with team, perhaps he can help out. Still though I thought we sat out last yr in FA so we could spend a little more this yr, but it is still early.

[Den Smith 49]

This thread is depressing. we have too many pessimistic fans.


I don't know I think it's kinda funny. I used to think I had a bad attitude, these guys make me feel like I"m a "glass half full" guy now.

LOL

[HEAV]

Mike has also not mastered the "get him to town first and don't let him leave until you have a deal" strategy of free agency.


Like the Cards did with Edge. Get them in, if their really your #1 outside freeagent priority, keep them here. Don't let them go of to interview with another team.

This isn't a secretary position we are trying to fill!

You don't have Elway here anymore to attract players and the shine is coming off those Lambardi's!

[broncolife]

Kind of getting tired of hearing that good teams build through the draft, when it has no relevance to us. Are team is already built, time to add just a couple pieces. Thats like me building a house one year and next year my wife telling me to build her a house again when all she wanted is a new stove and bathtub to make it her dream home.Yeah in couple of years some other parts may break, but thats what the drafts for to have those pieces ready to takeover and keep it going without a complete overhaul. The draft is kind of like ordering online. You see a picture of something that looks great, but when its finally delivered it could be a piece of crap or be great and it takes a couple of days to be delieverd. FA is like shopping at a Store and seeing the product first hand before buying it.Plus, there is no waiting for delivery. Dont get me wrong I love the draft, but how many players can we have in development at one time and by the time there developed they go to another team. Either way the Draft and FA are both important. I think Shanny will eventually do something in FA, there still alot of time. As long as he doesnt trade our 1sts, Ill be okay. If he does trade one of our first that will be another year our rookie could have used to develop.

[sirhcyennek81]

Threads like this dissapear if we sign Owens or trade for Abraham.

:Broncos:

[12th man]

Kind of getting tired of hearing that good teams build through the draft, when it has no relevance to us. Are team is already built, time to add just a couple pieces. Thats like me building a house one year and next year my wife telling me to build her a house again when all she wanted is a new stove and bathtub to make it her dream home.Yeah in couple of years some other parts may break, but thats what the drafts for to have those pieces ready to takeover and keep it going without a complete overhaul. The draft is kind of like ordering online. You see a picture of something that looks great, but when its finally delivered it could be a piece of crap or be great and it takes a couple of days to be delieverd. FA is like shopping at a Store and seeing the product first hand before buying it.Plus, there is no waiting for delivery. Dont get me wrong I love the draft, but how many players can we have in development at one time and by the time there developed they go to another team. Either way the Draft and FA are both important. I think Shanny will eventually do something in FA, there still alot of time. As long as he doesnt trade our 1sts, Ill be okay. If he does trade one of our first that will be another year our rookie could have used to develop.
This is what I have been saying. We have basically the right people. The people we have lost are all replacable even replacable with teamates we have now. All we need is another playmaker on offense like a wr, and another playmaker on defense, obviously a DE. That's all we need. Between FA, and the draft, im pretty confident we can get those things.

[CBF1]

If you lose 3 starters, Pryce, Putzier and Anderson and do not replace them, Yes we are worse than last season.

[phisig150]

Let's have alittle patience for christs sakes. This offseason can still be a blockbuster for us. Let me fix it.
1) Abraham in Pryce out. Huge upgrade
2) White and Dayne instead of MA again huge upgrade
3) Mercedes Lewis in the 2nd instead of Putz decent upgrade
There everbody stop being such bitches and lets all go out and get blitzed St. Patricks day.

[broncohaven]

You seem to have forgoten,
Olandis Gary Rookie season
1999 Denver Broncos 12 12 276 1159
Mike Anderson Rookie Season
2000 Denver Broncos 16 12 297 1487
Clinton Portis
2002 Denver Broncos 16 12 273 1508

Three guys, all first year in Shanny's complex system, all rookies, all monster years. I would even bet that none of these guys had play in a zone blocking systems before.
And all got their chance becuase there was absolutely no alternative. Terrell Davis lost his knee for Gary to get a chance. Gary lost his knee to give MA a chance. Portis got his chance because of injury as well.

I've complained over the years that Shanahan isn't willing enough to give young/new guys a real chance. I wanted to see more of Dayne this year. I wanted to see more of Devoe as well. I would have liked to see Terrell. None of that happened because of Shanahan's philosophy to place higher value on experience in his system than he does on raw talent or potential.

He'll only do it out of necesity, which was the case in all of your examples.

[baja]

And all got their chance becuase there was absolutely no alternative. Terrell Davis lost his knee for Gary to get a chance. Gary lost his knee to give MA a chance. Portis got his chance because of injury as well.

I've complained over the years that Shanahan isn't willing enough to give young/new guys a real chance. I wanted to see more of Dayne this year. I wanted to see more of Devoe as well. I would have liked to see Terrell. None of that happened because of Shanahan's philosophy to place higher value on experience in his system than he does on raw talent or potential.



He'll only do it out of necesity, which was the case in all of your examples.


You could not be more wrong. Shanahan shipped off a high profile receiver and started Rod and Ed everyone thought he was crazy but it worked well. He benched Bubby and started griese huge risk. He let Sharpe walk and started the three headed monster (this one was a bad move but he did it is the point). he let Romo walk and started Gold and everyone whined lick a beetch but that worked out too. Shanahan is the leader of coaches in his willingness to put the best 22 players on the field regardless of status and salary. I have always admired Shanny for his balls in this regard.

[Cito Pelon]

Denver has a good young roster. Been to the playoffs three straight years. There's a lot of different ways to win titles. The biggest deal is you have to go on a roll in the playoffs. That's all Den has been missing for the past three years. The team has got to the show, but hasn't gone on a roll.

The team has a playoff-seasoned roster and coaching staff. If there's anything that needs to be improved, it's not the roster itself, but the roster playing looser and more confidently. Sometimes in "big" games you can see the teams own expectations have them right on the edge of panic when things aren't going their way.

[SoCalBronco]

It will all come down to the draft.

Thankfully its an even numbered year so Shanny's ****ups on draft weekend should be kept to a minimum.

[Clockwork Orange]

It will all come down to the draft.

Thankfully its an even numbered year so Shanny's ****ups on draft weekend should be kept to a minimum.

And that's fine. The Broncos are going to have at least 9 picks in this draft and 7 of them will be within the first four rounds.

[Orange_Beard]

And all got their chance becuase there was absolutely no alternative. Terrell Davis lost his knee for Gary to get a chance. Gary lost his knee to give MA a chance. Portis got his chance because of injury as well.

I've complained over the years that Shanahan isn't willing enough to give young/new guys a real chance. I wanted to see more of Dayne this year. I wanted to see more of Devoe as well. I would have liked to see Terrell. None of that happened because of Shanahan's philosophy to place higher value on experience in his system than he does on raw talent or potential.

He'll only do it out of necesity, which was the case in all of your examples.

Not sure I buy the first part, However I and not willing to do the research to prove it untrue, so I will give you that.

Now explain this:
Tatum Bell's rookie year: 14 0 75 396 5.3
Tatum had 75 carries, was hurt much of the season. Broken finger forced him out of action for several games.

Ron Dayne (first year)10 0 53 270 5.1
Only 53 carries.

2 backs, both first year. Bell was the guy hurt he still gets more carries than Dayne. In Dayne's first year, Bell was the guy hurt and Dayne still did not get the carries. Shanny had the chane to work RD in when TB got hurt, he did not do it. Why?

From what I have seen of Shanny, If a young guy out plays a vet, Shanny works the guy in. Example, DWilliams- out played Walls, got the job. Griese out played Brister, job was his. So I don't buy the Shanny does not play young guys. From what i have seen he plays his best players.

So if Dayne is better the MA, why did'nt he play last year?