Isaac Hayes leaves Southpark citing Religious Disrespect

[Taco John]

Isaac Hayes Quits 'South Park' By ERIN CARLSON, Associated Press Writer



Isaac Hayes has quit "South Park," where he voices Chef, saying he can no longer stomach its take on religion.

Hayes, who has played the ladies' man/school cook in the animated Comedy Central satire since 1997, said in a statement Monday that he feels a line has been crossed.

"There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins," the 63-year-old soul singer and outspoken Scientologist said.

"Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honored," he continued. "As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years, I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices."

"South Park" co-creator Matt Stone responded sharply in an interview with The Associated Press Monday, saying, "This is 100 percent having to do with his faith of Scientology... He has no problem — and he's cashed plenty of checks — with our show making fun of Christians."

Last November, "South Park" targeted the Church of Scientology and its celebrity followers, including actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, in a top-rated episode called "Trapped in the Closet." In the episode, Stan, one of the show's four mischievous fourth graders, is hailed as a reluctant savior by Scientology leaders, while a cartoon Cruise locks himself in a closet and won't come out.

Stone told The AP he and co-creator Trey Parker "never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060313/ap_en_tv/people_isaac_hayes

[Mile High Shack]

LOL
LOL

Trey and Matt busted ole Isaac

Scientologists are a different breed of cat that is for sure, they can't handle any criticism

[Taco John]

Stone told The AP he and co-creator Trey Parker "never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060313/ap_en_tv/people_isaac_hayes



I think Trey nailed it.

[Taco John]

LOL
LOL

Trey and Matt busted ole Isaac

Scientologists are a different breed of cat that is for sure, they can't handle any criticism



You're only going to say that about Scientologists? As an admin of this place, you could have fooled me. I constantly have someone of some religion complaining to me about the disrespect they're getting for their religion. I've heard it from Christians, I've heard it from Muslim (yes, there are practicing mulsims here), I've heard it from Mormons...

No one is willing to speak up until it's their religion being attacked... And usually, they're very adverse to the criticism of their own religion.

[Pendejo]

Yeah. The allegedly devout generally lack a sense of humour. Especially about themselves.

[Taco John]

And that's not even mentioning the people who enjoy goading the religious types into debate by posting stuff to poke fun of other religions... Ah yeah, that's great fun. You can't say anything to these folks because their religion is the first amendment. Which is fine with me, I'm a big first amendment fan, but I'm also a big fan of the idea that you shouldn't yell fire in a crowded theatre.

The theatre is getting pretty damned crowded.

[TheDave]

You're only going to say that about Scientologists? As an admin of this place, you could have fooled me. I constantly have someone of some religion complaining to me about the disrespect they're getting for their religion. I've heard it from Christians, I've heard it from Muslim (yes, there are practicing mulsims here), I've heard it from Mormons...

No one is willing to speak up until it's their religion being attacked... And usually, they're very adverse to the criticism of their own religion.

Another reason why us agnostics are great... We don't b!tch to mods :)

[Pendejo]

And that's not even mentioning the people who enjoy goading the religious types into debate by posting stuff to poke fun of other religions... Ah yeah, that's great fun. You can't say anything to these folks because their religion is the first amendment. Which is fine with me, I'm a big first amendment fan, but I'm also a big fan of the idea that you shouldn't yell fire in a crowded theatre.

The theatre is getting pretty damned crowded.

I'm not sure if truer words have ever been put together. Outstanding.

I know that I become livid when people make fun of me for seeking salvation through dancing with poisonous snakes. I am devout.

[ludo21]

i liked that episode, it was funny.

Even though im a Christian, i still find the Jesus and pals show funny. Ha!

[Moon§hiner]

Hey, I did good and didn't make any comments on the priest not allowing the young boy communal because he wouldn't swallow...lips sore from biting it though.

[maven]

Isaac was bounced 8 months ago when he was not in the fall episodes. I guess it's now official he's gone.

[orange 4 life]

You're only going to say that about Scientologists? As an admin of this place, you could have fooled me. I constantly have someone of some religion complaining to me about the disrespect they're getting for their religion. I've heard it from Christians, I've heard it from Muslim (yes, there are practicing mulsims here), I've heard it from Mormons...

No one is willing to speak up until it's their religion being attacked... And usually, they're very adverse to the criticism of their own religion.

mormons are christans, and christianity isnt a religion.

carry on.

[orinjkrush]

respect my authoritaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taco John]

mormons are christans, and christianity isnt a religion.

carry on.



Only if you're asking the Mormons... A Baptist will tell you that Mormons aren't Christians...

...But I'm not trying to get into that...

[TUG]

what are the criteria to be a christian then? because the name of the mormon church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[BroncosMT]

The actual name for the Mormon church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." They believe in Jesus Christ and he is the cornerstone of the religion. So I guess that makes them Christians.

[Merlin]

Only if you're asking the Mormons... A Baptist will tell you that Mormons aren't Christians...
...But I'm not trying to get into that...
But that is usualy what Christians from one religion will say of Christians from another ;)

[Moon§hiner]

uh oh

[TheDave]

This has all the makings of a good old Internet Jihad...

[Gcver2ver3]

i liked that episode, it was funny.

Even though im a Christian, i still find the Jesus and pals show funny. Ha!



i stopped watching South Park years ago because they kept making fun of Jesus and that as a Christian I cannot support....

it's blasphemy.....

it made me mad to have to do it because i enjoyed the show so much....but they crossed the line and for that i had to ban them....

they would get even more ratings if they just stopped the religion bashing so much IMO....

[ludo21]

i stopped watching South Park years ago because they kept making fun of Jesus and that as a Christian I cannot support....

it's blasphemy.....

it made me mad to have to do it because i enjoyed the show so much....but they crossed the line and for that i had to ban them....

they would get even more ratings if they just stopped the religion bashing so much IMO....


yeah its getting close for me as well. But i just look past it, and laugh. I know its not right, but, i still enjoy the show.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You're only going to say that about Scientologists? As an admin of this place, you could have fooled me. I constantly have someone of some religion complaining to me about the disrespect they're getting for their religion. I've heard it from Christians, I've heard it from Muslim (yes, there are practicing mulsims here), I've heard it from Mormons...

No one is willing to speak up until it's their religion being attacked... And usually, they're very adverse to the criticism of their own religion.
Any Budda's feel like they're being persecuted around here?

[sirhcyennek81]

I'm Catholic. At some point, I have heard everything. Don't give a rats ass who considers themselves Christians or not.

:Broncos:

[Dagmar]

http://www.bablakejs.co.uk/download/chef.gif

Bye chef. You had run your course as a character anyways.

[spdirty]

Ive been watching since it started and was a senior at Evergreen when they started. It was so funny because Trey graduated from Evergreen hs and there were rumors going around that certain SP characters were based on certain ppl they knew growing up. Mr. Garrison was actually Mr. Lukich who is a carbon copy of him without Mr hat, lol.


Anyway, I enjoyed the Scientology and Mormon episodes. I actually showed my grandparents (huge christians) those episodes, and they couldn't stop laughing and said those were very realistic descriptions of those religions. I would LOVE for them to do the Jehova's Witnesses, so I would be able to watch it in front of my wife EVERY DAY! (yes, she is a JW)

I doubt they would do my religion though, which is good.

Any bets on whether they put Isaac Hayes as himself in one of their episodes and just totally bash the hell out of him?

[BarefootKicker]

they would get even more ratings if they just stopped the religion bashing so much IMO....


Obviously you don't get South Park target audience...it's those of us with enough of a sense of humor to laugh at the ridiculousness of religion....even if it's OUR religion...because face it. religion is RIDICULOUS. Burning bushes, 72 virgins, Joseph Smith and his hat, Jonah and the Whale, sacred cows, buddha's belly....it's all a little silly when you have a chance to step back and laugh at it.

:peace:

[Taco John]

Don't forget the Giants:


There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

[El Guapo]

:spit:

well, its sad to see him go. but I knew they'd be pissing him off with that episode.

mormons are christans, and christianity isnt a religion.

carry on.


mormons are christians, eh? If you actually study religion you'll find that the founder of the mormon religion was instructed to begin this religion by the "angel of light." Ok, so knowing this go pick up a morman bible and lookup "angel of light" and you'll find (even in their own bible) that it defines that particular angel as satan. quite disturbing really (this was the case about 5-7 years ago, maybe they've caught the mistake by now).

anyways, this thread is about south park and as stated before.. Im Christian but I do chuckle at jesus and pals as well. sad if you cant laugh about yourself from time to time (as long as you make sure you're not disrespecful).

[Gcver2ver3]

Obviously you don't get South Park target audience...it's those of us with enough of a sense of humor to laugh at the ridiculousness of religion....even if it's OUR religion...because face it. religion is RIDICULOUS. Burning bushes, 72 virgins, Joseph Smith and his hat, Jonah and the Whale, sacred cows, buddha's belly....it's all a little silly when you have a chance to step back and laugh at it.

:peace:



well i ain't going there with you....

but you're entitled to your opinion.....i'll just leave it at that...

[Gcver2ver3]

:spit:

anyways, this thread is about south park and as stated before.. Im Christian but I do chuckle at jesus and pals as well. sad if you cant laugh about yourself from time to time (as long as you make sure you're not disrespecful).


i have no problem laughing at myself....

it's God I choose not to laugh at.....

[ludo21]

Obviously you don't get South Park target audience...it's those of us with enough of a sense of humor to laugh at the ridiculousness of religion....even if it's OUR religion...because face it. religion is RIDICULOUS. Burning bushes, 72 virgins, Joseph Smith and his hat, Jonah and the Whale, sacred cows, buddha's belly....it's all a little silly when you have a chance to step back and laugh at it.

:peace:


it is silly, but where my soul ends up is pretty serious to me.

[Gcver2ver3]

it is silly, but where my soul ends up is pretty serious to me.



agreed.....

[Pezman]

LOL
LOL

Trey and Matt busted ole Isaac

Scientologists are a different breed of cat that is for sure, they can't handle any criticism

Honestly, given that they really had alot of ugly publicity from the 70's (anyone remember that poor girl who was starved to death and forced to live in her own filth before dying?) and then taking some heat for being a trendy religion in the 90's, I guess I can see why they are so fragile.

Then again, I keep thinking about Battlefield Earth, and the horror of sitting through the first 10 minutes of that tripe, when I realized that they bring their own problems onto themself.

So long Chef, dont let the door hit you on the way out.

[BarefootKicker]

Let's just pause for a moment and each one of us examine our own hearts and ask ourselves. What makes us joyful? Luke 10:19-20

Laughing at religion (all kinds) is what makes me joyful :)

[ClevelandBronco]

Let's just pause for a moment and each one of us examine our own hearts and ask ourselves. What makes us joyful? Luke 10:19-20

Laughing at religion (all kinds) is what makes me joyful :)

Actually, I think you may be looking at a rather obscure translation there, chief.

Luke 10:19-20 says something more like: "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the powers of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submitted to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

[BarefootKicker]

Actually, I think you may be looking at a rather obscure translation there, chief.

Luke 10:19-20 says something more like: "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the powers of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submitted to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

damn, what the hell was I looking at????

oh well...see, I can laugh at my stupidity.

[Kaylore]

Oh here we go. Maverick is going to tell you all what I believe and what my religion teaches. I love these arguments. I've been in my religion my whole life and people read a pamphlet on how we worship Satan and eat babies and suddenly I don't know.


mormons are christians, eh? If you actually study religion you'll find that the founder of the mormon religion was instructed to begin this religion by the "angel of light."
Wrong. Joseph Smith was visited by God and Jesus. He had later visitations by other Angels, but they didn't start the Church. Jesus Christ started the church and that's why It's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.

Ok, so knowing this go pick up a morman bible
You could spell it right for starters and our Bible is the same Bible you might use. It's the King James version. I think you mean the The Book of Mormon: Another Testiment of Jesus Christ.
and lookup "angel of light" and you'll find (even in their own bible) that it defines that particular angel as satan. quite disturbing really
I will quote it EXACTLY: Angels. These are messengers of the Lord and are spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews as "ministering spirits."

(this was the case about 5-7 years ago, maybe they've caught the mistake by now).
LOL My book is probably older than you are. Everything you've said is untrue.

Don't go around telling people crap about my religion. You're just spreading lies and hating on something sacred to people. If you don't agree with us, fine Then just leave us alone.

If anyone wants to really know about my religion from a legitmate source, please send me a PM. I'll be happy to answer any questions. This site will help too. http://www.mormon.org/

[yavoon]

this place ever had a hell poll? I find it curious how many ppl believe large swaths of the human population will be in everlasting agony and torment. among maybe a lot of other things.

[clarker]

This has all the makings of a good old Internet Jihad...Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

[Kaylore]

this place ever had a hell poll?
It would be even funnier here because Griese would be an option - as usuall.

[sirhcyennek81]

Waiting for the Catholic bashing...

:Broncos:

[SoCalBronco]

this place ever had a hell poll? I find it curious how many ppl believe large swaths of the human population will be in everlasting agony and torment. among maybe a lot of other things.

I dont see whats so curious about it.

Everyone has a chance to live by the Word.
If they choose not to, they will pay the consequences.

[TheDave]

Waiting for the Catholic bashing...

:Broncos:

Priests...

that should get things rolling :thumbs:

[sirhcyennek81]

Priests...

that should get things rolling :thumbs:


Never knew a bad priest. My priest who was there for my confirmation could outdrink a Marine under the table, and was a Broncos fan from boston.

:Broncos:

[yavoon]

I dont see whats so curious about it.

Everyone has a chance to live by the Word.
If they choose not to, they will pay the consequences.

well first many christians are turning away from all pain and torture concepts of hell. Society is changing and with it the bible will follow:).

On a more theoretical level I find a couple things interesting.
1)hell is the worst thing that could possibly happen to anyone, how could a caring compassionate person possibly not spend their entire lives evangilizing if they really believed in hell? Hitler, stalin, that poor girl on the generals daughter, childs play compared to an eternity of pain. I mean why do we have so many anti smoking ads? who gives a flying **** about smoking, what u cut off 10 or 20 years of ur life? nothing compared to ur fate for eternity.

2)hell as a concept would make god the most violent and oppressive entity in known existance. its just not something u hear very often.

[TheDave]

Never knew a bad priest. My priest who was there for my confirmation could outdrink a Marine under the table, and was a Broncos fan from boston.

:Broncos:

a bunch (4) from my Highschool and Grammer school are now wrapped up in one of these abuse scandals (no, nothing to do with me)

[SoCalBronco]

a bunch (4) from my Highschool and Grammer school are now wrapped up in one of these abuse scandals (no, nothing to do with me)

Would this be a bad time to make a reference to TheDave: King of Sausage Island? :)

[TheDave]

Would this be a bad time to make a reference to TheDave: King of Sausage Island? :)

Only if the DA is listening... I'm going to be one seriously pissed off person if i am asked to testify about something Hilarious!

[Odysseus]

Any Budda's feel like they're being persecuted around here?

That would be interesting to see. How would you even do something like that?

[Odysseus]

I think you make a good point. Since the Bible is obvious in error we need to re-write it and change it's core concepts. It's getting kind of antiquated all those ideas about truth, honor, justice, and whatever. Nobody believes that stuff. I mean how the heck is anybody getting to Heaven with these strict and prohibitive rules in place? We need to loosen it up so that it fits our standards more. All these rules! Man!

An eternity of pain? What kind of God would that be? Oppressive? Hell yeah! Let's break the yoke of God's oppression. What does God know about living on earth anyway!

well first many christians are turning away from all pain and torture concepts of hell. Society is changing and with it the bible will follow:).

On a more theoretical level I find a couple things interesting.
1)hell is the worst thing that could possibly happen to anyone, how could a caring compassionate person possibly not spend their entire lives evangilizing if they really believed in hell? Hitler, stalin, that poor girl on the generals daughter, childs play compared to an eternity of pain. I mean why do we have so many anti smoking ads? who gives a flying **** about smoking, what u cut off 10 or 20 years of ur life? nothing compared to ur fate for eternity.

2)hell as a concept would make god the most violent and oppressive entity in known existance. its just not something u hear very often.

[yavoon]

I think you make a good point. Since the Bible is obvious in error we need to re-write it and change it's core concepts. It's getting kind of antiquated all those ideas about truth, honor, justice, and whatever. Nobody believes that stuff. I mean how the heck is anybody getting to Heaven with these strict and prohibitive rules in place? We need to loosen it up so that it fits our standards more. All these rules! Man!

An eternity of pain? What kind of God would that be? Oppressive? Hell yeah! Let's break the yoke of God's oppression. What does God know about living on earth anyway!

hey its not like I'm christian. just google it, lots of christians are ceasing to believe in the punishment side of hell.

obviously u aren't one of them. so how do u feel about all the ppl that will go into everlasting punishment for not following jesus? it doesn't make u a little queasy? The idea of high speed motorcycle accidents make me queasy I can't imagine having to think about all the ppl around me who would be burning in fire for all eternity.

[Popps]

You're only going to say that about Scientologists? As an admin of this place, you could have fooled me. I constantly have someone of some religion complaining to me about the disrespect they're getting for their religion. I've heard it from Christians, I've heard it from Muslim (yes, there are practicing mulsims here), I've heard it from Mormons...

No one is willing to speak up until it's their religion being attacked... And usually, they're very adverse to the criticism of their own religion.

That's a good post, man. Odd, isn't it? This thing that's supposed to lead people towards peace and tolerance? Think of THE most intolerant people on the planet... 9 out of 10 of them are probably that way because of their religion.

I'm actually not anti-religion, believe it or not. I go off on the A-rabs a lot... mostly because they deserve it. But, I've given it to the Christians, Scientologists, UFOologists, you name it. Muslims are just the most consistently deserving of criticism, these days.

That said, I'm greatly in favor of protecting people's right to practice. But, the second it starts getting into other people's business, that's when we have a problem. Religious people tend to live in glass houses... not something you can do in this day and age.

The most important thing to remember if you're religious is... aside from those in your religion, no one else cares. Really... we just don't care. Have at it... do what you have to do, but if you want people to respect your religion, get out there and earn it.

Why do you think it is that Buddhism tends to be a religion that most people feel some level of respect for? It's the way they conduct themselves.

[yavoon]

That's a good post, man. Odd, isn't it? This thing that's supposed to lead people towards peace and tolerance? Think of THE most intolerant people on the planet... 9 out of 10 of them are probably that way because of their religion.

I'm actually not anti-religion, believe it or not. I go off on the A-rabs a lot... mostly because they deserve it. But, I've given it to the Christians, Scientologists, UFOologists, you name it. Muslims are just the most consistently deserving of criticism, these days.

That said, I'm greatly in favor of protecting people's right to practice. But, the second it starts getting into other people's business, that's when we have a problem. Religious people tend to live in glass houses... not something you can do in this day and age.

The most important thing to remember if you're religious is... aside from those in your religion, no one else cares. Really... we just don't care. Have at it... do what you have to do, but if you want people to respect your religion, get out there and earn it.

Why do you think it is that Buddhism tends to be a religion that most people feel some level of respect for? It's the way they conduct themselves.

yah but think about it the other way around, how could any person that TRULY believed in their particular book not be an obnoxious, overbearing asshole? I mean the consequences are just so enormous that if u truly believed u were right I just think u'd feel obligated to evangilize, etc...

I know if I thought one of my friends was going to endure the worst punishment ever imagined by humanity it would make me a nag.

[Obushma]

Don't go around telling people crap about my religion. You're just spreading lies and hating on something sacred to people. If you don't agree with us, fine Then just leave us alone.

I've got to say, living in Utah i've met some really nice Mormons and some really big assholes, just like every other religion i'd take it. Could you answer a couple of questions for me please, for some reason, the missionaries never seemed to have the answer.

#1 Is it true that the mormon church was founded on masonic teachings? I know some of the temple rituals and I find it pretty strange how the bishop (or whoever holds the ceremonies) touches the bride and grooms genitals and how they give each other names that only the two of them know.

#2 I find it strange that blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the mormon religion untill they were sued by the NAACP. Then out of nowhere, the profit has a "vision from god" and allows them in.

#3 Mormons say that polygamy is wrong and they shun it. Well don't mormons believe that those who go to the highest kingdom will have many wives? Didn't Brigham Young have 23 wives and had a "vision from god" after the United States said they wouldn't allow Utah to become a state if they didn't give it up?

Thanks for the info, please tell the truth and remember to CTR

[Arkie]

I dont see whats so curious about it.

Everyone has a chance to live by the Word.
If they choose not to, they will pay the consequences.


I don't think everyone has that chance. Not in contemporary times, and especially not in the past. What about the child born in Pakistan that was taught that Christianity was bad all of his life? Or, what about all the children growing up in the Bible Belt that are taught that everything non-Christian is evil? These kids have no chance to except Allah if the Muslims are right. It's all based on faith instead of facts, and no caring god is going to torture us for choosing the wrong faith when our hearts are in the right place.

it is silly, but where my soul ends up is pretty serious to me.

That's the type of fear that's responsible for about 95% of religion's "memberships." With all the translations and interpretations of many many religions, it takes this kind of fear to put people in the churches, mosques, or temples, and drive them away from other places of worship.

[Wes Mantooth]

From chocolate salty balls to religious intolerance? Goodbye Chef.

[No1BroncoFan]

Check this out. It's some kind of seriously freaky!
http://www.xenu.net/

Ben

[Mediator12]

I'm not sure if truer words have ever been put together. Outstanding.

I know that I become livid when people make fun of me for seeking salvation through dancing with poisonous snakes. I am devout.

I knew you were Pentecostal ;D

[Popps]

I don't think everyone has that chance. Not in contemporary times, and especially not in the past. What about the child born in Pakistan that was taught that Christianity was bad all of his life? Or, what about all the children growing up in the Bible Belt that are taught that everything non-Christian is evil? These kids have no chance to except Allah if the Muslims are right. It's all based on faith instead of facts, and no caring god is going to torture us for choosing the wrong faith when our hearts are in the right place.

That's the type of fear that's responsible for about 95% of religion's "memberships." With all the translations and interpretations of many many religions, it takes this kind of fear to put people in the churches, mosques, or temples, and drive them away from other places of worship.

The age old question. What if I've been praying to the wrong god, and didn't know it? Do I still roast on a spit in the 5th ring?

Conversely, what if someone lived their life in the perfect image of Jesus (for instance) ... but it was just a happy coincidence? In other words, no baptism, no communion, no confession... not a day of church in his life. He had no clue of Mr. Christ and all he'd done. Yet, he lived his life the perfect image... as if by his teachings. Does he get in, or does he cook, too?

[Arkie]

this place ever had a hell poll? I find it curious how many ppl believe large swaths of the human population will be in everlasting agony and torment. among maybe a lot of other things.

That would be a great poll. We should also have a poll that asks if Jesus was white/black/other/don't know. I'm curious how many people feel certain that Jesus had blue eyes and fair skin.

[Arkie]

The age old question. What if I've been praying to the wrong god, and didn't know it? Do I still roast on a spit in the 5th ring?

Conversely, what if someone lived their life in the perfect image of Jesus (for instance) ... but it was just a happy coincidence? In other words, no baptism, no communion, no confession... not a day of church in his life. He had no clue of Mr. Christ and all he'd done. Yet, he lived his life the perfect image... as if by his teachings. Does he get in, or does he cook, too?

Exactly. I hurt my brain thinking about these things as an adolescence. Now I realize we are a bunch of ants crawling around on this big ball, and we are all fighting for our own silly way.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I dont see whats so curious about it.

Everyone has a chance to live by the Word.
If they choose not to, they will pay the consequences.
One version of religious hocus pocus. It does frighten a lot of humans who need validation for their existence though.

[Rascal]

That would be interesting to see. How would you even do something like that?
Start insulting them and see how they react. :rofl:

[El Guapo]

Oh here we go. Maverick is going to tell you all what I believe and what my religion teaches. I love these arguments. I've been in my religion my whole life and people read a pamphlet on how we worship Satan and eat babies and suddenly I don't know.


Wrong. Joseph Smith was visited by God and Jesus. He had later visitations by other Angels, but they didn't start the Church. Jesus Christ started the church and that's why It's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.
[/url]

Wrong.

http://www.irr.org/MIT/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html

have fun, since youve been brainwashed. There are many differences between the Christian religions (and those of Jesus Christ) and Mormons who claim "Jesus Christ" is part of the religion.

and I said to look up "Angel of light," not just "angels."

[Mile High Shack]

You're only going to say that about Scientologists? As an admin of this place, you could have fooled me. I constantly have someone of some religion complaining to me about the disrespect they're getting for their religion. I've heard it from Christians, I've heard it from Muslim (yes, there are practicing mulsims here), I've heard it from Mormons...

No one is willing to speak up until it's their religion being attacked... And usually, they're very adverse to the criticism of their own religion.

well, I don't know what to say, I always laugh at southpark when they make fun of christians too, it's all in fun...and most of the time, there is a hint of truth

[Mile High Shack]

The age old question. What if I've been praying to the wrong god, and didn't know it? Do I still roast on a spit in the 5th ring?

Conversely, what if someone lived their life in the perfect image of Jesus (for instance) ... but it was just a happy coincidence? In other words, no baptism, no communion, no confession... not a day of church in his life. He had no clue of Mr. Christ and all he'd done. Yet, he lived his life the perfect image... as if by his teachings. Does he get in, or does he cook, too?

Matthew 7 I believe

"...not everyone who cries out Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven....." etc etc

to paraphrase, Jesus said on the final day, many will say, Lord didn't we do great things for you, but he will say, depart from me, I don't know you.

It takes more than just being a good person

[Mediator12]

These threads crack me up. Religion is what you make of it. It is tainted by everyone's personal experiences. You should be able to laugh at the mistakes others make in trying to do something right. That is funny most of the time. On the other hand, that does not make it all right to make fun of something indiscriminately like some people and institutions do.

I believe what I believe. No more, no less either. I do not proselytyze on the internet because it leaves out the most important factor, example. Currently, I find it impossible to act in a christian manner while playing online survivor. It is a game, and I am playing a role (Rather poorly I might add because it is the Alter Ego of Myself and painful to execute). In real life, I would be beyond disgusted with my behavior in there.

That being said, here are a few thoughts for everyone:

1. What will happen if you are wrong?
2. What are the costs of your beliefs if any?
3. The life led by a person of faith is one of commitment to others and not self. Are you contributing to the problems of others by living the way you do?
4. How many mistakes do you make daily out of thousands of decisions?
5. Is life black and white or shades of gray?

I do my best to not judge others, it is not my right, but I still find myself going there sometimes. Sorry, if I have done this to anyone recently.

[Merlin]

The age old question. What if I've been praying to the wrong god, and didn't know it? Do I still roast on a spit in the 5th ring?
In this ecumenical age, the understanding of religion is changing a lot among many scholars within each religion. The importance of religion is no longer being seen as one version being the right one, but rather they each provide a means to commune (yes I'm Catholic, but the institution deserves a lot of what it gets, both ways) with God, or what in an ecumenical age would be called the Divine Ground.

That is, each religion provides us with the opportunity to connect with the divine, so that is the critical issue, "connecting" with God. Because of the diversity of human existence, some expressions of religion serve individuals better than others, but it is not a question of one being better than the other.

Yavoon, I think one mistake you are making regarding Hell, is that you are assuming that you understand what God/Divine Ground means by hell. Remember, far too often communication needs to be reduced to stupid categories for us mere humans to understand it; even Plato relied on allegories.

That being said, there are far too many idiots claiming to understand the word of something that is in essence incomprehensible to us, and I am for sure going to Hell according to many of them now ;D

#2 I find it strange that blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the mormon religion untill they were sued by the NAACP. Then out of nowhere, the profit has a "vision from god" and allows them in.
Talk about a Freudian slip

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Of all the religions (people) I've been around, buddhist's have been the most pleasurable and noncritical people I've ever known.

[sirhcyennek81]

[QUOTE=yavoon]hey its not like I'm christian. just google it, lots of christians are ceasing to believe in the punishment side of hell.

obviously u aren't one of them. so how do u feel about all the ppl that will go into everlasting punishment for not following jesus?
[QUOTE]

first thing. Hell IS the punishment side. Not like there is good hell, and bad hell. second thing, God does not send you to hell, or heaven. You do. You either obey, or you don't. Your free will is the deciding factor.

:Broncos:

[Merlin]

Of all the religions (people) I've been around, buddhist's have been the most pleasurable and noncritical people I've ever known.
Well, Buddhism is not necessarily a religion per say, but rather a philosophy, thus the reason you have Christian Buddhists. BTW, there are a number of "sects" in Buddhism, and like in other philosophies, they differ on re-incarnation, self-hood, achieving Nirvana, and so on.

[spdirty]

I am baffled by religions who constantly change their beliefs and who run their religion like you would a country or state. I don't understand why some "Christian" denominations don't just simply follow what the New Testament says. Its easy and it keeps you safe. My religion won't even allow instrumental music because we can't find any examples in the NT that really authorized it. But we stay with the teachings and do not add or subtract anything from the bible, nor will we take one passage from the bible and use that as the basis of our religion. And we definitely don't call little pimple faced kids who do not meet the qualifications elders.

[Mile High Shack]

I am baffled by religions who constantly change their beliefs and who run their religion like you would a country or state. I don't understand why some "Christian" denominations don't just simply follow what the New Testament says. Its easy and it keeps you safe. My religion won't even allow instrumental music because we can't find any examples in the NT that really authorized it. But we stay with the teachings and do not add or subtract anything from the bible, nor will we take one passage from the bible and use that as the basis of our religion. And we definitely don't call little pimple faced kids who do not meet the qualifications elders.

I assume you are church of christ?

[watermock]

i stopped watching South Park years ago because they kept making fun of Jesus and that as a Christian I cannot support....

it's blasphemy.....

it made me mad to have to do it because i enjoyed the show so much....but they crossed the line and for that i had to ban them....

they would get even more ratings if they just stopped the religion bashing so much IMO....

Unless your deaf dumb and blind, there are often more than not real moral messages between the lines, especially at the end of the show. (except for the Chili cookoff when Brad Tinerman ate his parents). I fell on the floor on that one, literally...I WANT MY 16 DOLLARS AND 25 CENTS GOD DAMMIT! I still laugh just thinking of that episode.

I think they should do an episode where they do a "THEY KILLED CHEF...YOU BASTARDS..."

The most amusing thing is that Chef seems to think Scientology is a "religion"...we can debate whether Mormons are "Christians" but it's certainly a religion. Dum Dum Dum....That was a funny episode. Sorry Orange 4 Life, it was just plain funny. I respect your beliefs.

Anyway who the **** cares, they can replace him easily. Well, not easily, he was a great, intregal character, but the will create a new cook with different chaaracteristics, maybe Edna Blumpkin...she's good at advice.

[spdirty]

I assume you are church of christ?

yes

[Mile High Shack]

yes

what a coinky dink

couple of us on here are 2

[Taco John]

This thread reminds me why I quit going to church.

[spdirty]

Unless your deaf dumb and blind, there are often more than not real moral messages between the lines, especially at the end of the show. (except for the Chili cookoff when Brad Tinerman ate his parents). I fell on the floor on that one, literally...I WANT MY 16 DOLLARS AND 25 CENTS GOD DAMMIT! I still laugh just thinking of that episode.


That episode nearly had me pissing my pants.Hilarious! And what I love about the show is that they will always do episodes that reflect current events.

[Taco John]

There is a religion that prohibits the playing of musical instruments because it's not in the book?

^_o

[Bronx33]

He has fun cashing checks for 9 years and making fun of every other religion and when they focus on scientology he crys and quits.I don't watch the show but this is a clear case of candy a**ology.

[spdirty]

what a coinky dink

couple of us on here are 2

cool!

[watermock]

Remember when Cartman went to Ft. Collins on a bus to sell pubic hairs?

[Mile High Shack]

There is a religion that prohibits the playing of musical instruments because it's not in the book?

^_o

not prohibits, just chooses not to use them to make it simplier like they did in the NT church originally

[watermock]

There is a religion that prohibits the playing of musical instruments because it's not in the book?

^_o

I thought they played harps and violins in Heaven and Alice Cooper, Kiss and Motley Crue in Hell. Decisions, Decisions....

[Taco John]

not prohibits, just chooses not to use them to make it simplier like they did in the NT church originally


How can you abide by that? Doesn't that make you just scratch your head?

I don't know... I don't want to get involved but it's an issue that's been rearing it's head lately around here, and even at home. My wife's family wants me to become catholic, but I could never become a member of a church that doesn't allow women to hold leadership roles.

My wife pointed out nuns are in leadership roles. I asked, can a Nun become the pope?

Her answer: "Well... a Mother can't become the Father."

Oy!

[spdirty]

not prohibits, just chooses not to use them to make it simplier like they did in the NT church originally


Yeah, and one of my preachers said it was because it was written in the NT that we were to sing during worship service. It didn't say anything about instruments, therefore, it is safe to assume that it is not authorized. Its not like we believe you are going to hell if you do, but its just one of those little things that takes you away (just a lil bit) from God's teachings.

[Mile High Shack]

How can you abide by that? Doesn't that make you just scratch your head?

I don't know... I don't want to get involved but it's an issue that's been rearing it's head lately around here, and even at home. My wife's family wants me to become catholic, but I could never become a member of a church that doesn't allow women to hold leadership roles.

My wife pointed out nuns are in leadership roles. I asked, can a Nun become the pope?

Her answer: "Well... a Mother can't become the Father."

Oy!

not at all

just like spdirty said, if you want to follow how the NT church was set up, it simply makes sense

worship isn't about how it makes you feel, it's about worshiping and glorifying God, not making yourself feel better

My grandmother goes to a christian church and they have a piano and I find it distracts me more than anything

why is it so important that women hold leadership roles in a church to you?

[Garcia Bronco]

See you later Dumb Ace...have fun in your next endeavor. Chef is a lame character anyway

[Popps]

How can you abide by that? Doesn't that make you just scratch your head?

I don't know... I don't want to get involved but it's an issue that's been rearing it's head lately around here, and even at home. My wife's family wants me to become catholic, but I could never become a member of a church that doesn't allow women to hold leadership roles.

My wife pointed out nuns are in leadership roles. I asked, can a Nun become the pope?

Her answer: "Well... a Mother can't become the Father."

Oy!

Jeesh, Taco... even your wife kicks your ass in debates. ;D

[orange 4 life]

Only if you're asking the Mormons... A Baptist will tell you that Mormons aren't Christians...

...But I'm not trying to get into that...

then i would have to say said baptist needs a lesson in what constitutes "christianity".

christianity is NOT a religion. it is simply a shared belief, and that belief is SIMPLY that Jesus is the Christ. the Son of God.
if you believe that, then you are in FACT a christian.
if you do not believe that, then you are not.

its that simple, and there isnt even an argument otherwise.

[Arkie]

I thought they played harps and violins in Heaven and Alice Cooper, Kiss and Motley Crue in Hell. Decisions, Decisions....

No, they play Michael Bolton and Kenny G in Hell.

[watermock]

No, they play Michael Bolton and Kenny G in Hell.

I better get to church next week then.

[orange 4 life]

i stopped watching South Park years ago because they kept making fun of Jesus and that as a Christian I cannot support....

it's blasphemy.....

it made me mad to have to do it because i enjoyed the show so much....but they crossed the line and for that i had to ban them....

they would get even more ratings if they just stopped the religion bashing so much IMO....

i can understand your point, and i of course was mildly offended at the mormon (and other) christian episodes, but at the same time i just laughed it off.
it had its funny moments, and i just laughed about it with a guy here at work that also happens to be a non practicing mormon.

the parts that bothered me were the parts that were based on false assumptions (and/or rumors) about the church, but ive heard so many blatantly false rumors spread by those with much nastier agendas i guess im just used to it.

pray for them ;D

[Atlas]

Isaac Hayes Quits 'South Park' By ERIN CARLSON, Associated Press Writer



Isaac Hayes has quit "South Park," where he voices Chef, saying he can no longer stomach its take on religion.

Hayes, who has played the ladies' man/school cook in the animated Comedy Central satire since 1997, said in a statement Monday that he feels a line has been crossed.

"There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins," the 63-year-old soul singer and outspoken Scientologist said.

"Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honored," he continued. "As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years, I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices."

"South Park" co-creator Matt Stone responded sharply in an interview with The Associated Press Monday, saying, "This is 100 percent having to do with his faith of Scientology... He has no problem — and he's cashed plenty of checks — with our show making fun of Christians."

Last November, "South Park" targeted the Church of Scientology and its celebrity followers, including actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, in a top-rated episode called "Trapped in the Closet." In the episode, Stan, one of the show's four mischievous fourth graders, is hailed as a reluctant savior by Scientology leaders, while a cartoon Cruise locks himself in a closet and won't come out.

Stone told The AP he and co-creator Trey Parker "never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060313/ap_en_tv/people_isaac_hayes

I hope they kill Chef off in some gruesome accident.

[Atlas]

i stopped watching South Park years ago because they kept making fun of Jesus and that as a Christian I cannot support....

it's blasphemy.....

it made me mad to have to do it because i enjoyed the show so much....but they crossed the line and for that i had to ban them....

they would get even more ratings if they just stopped the religion bashing so much IMO....

I stopped watching South Park when they made fun of the devil.

[orange 4 life]

:spit:

well, its sad to see him go. but I knew they'd be pissing him off with that episode.

mormons are christians, eh? If you actually study religion you'll find that the founder of the mormon religion was instructed to begin this religion by the "angel of light." Ok, so knowing this go pick up a morman bible and lookup "angel of light" and you'll find (even in their own bible) that it defines that particular angel as satan. quite disturbing really (this was the case about 5-7 years ago, maybe they've caught the mistake by now).

anyways, this thread is about south park and as stated before.. Im Christian but I do chuckle at jesus and pals as well. sad if you cant laugh about yourself from time to time (as long as you make sure you're not disrespecful).

yes eh.

see earlier post.

now go get a clue before you try and instruct me on my own faith.
there is no such thing as a "mormon bible".
there is only one bible, though it of course has been translated endless times.
old testament and new testament.
the book of mormon is independant scripture, and it is no more or less relevent than the bible.

ps- if youre about to use the "the scriptures say 'nothing can be added to this" argument, you can skip it, because it will only make you look foolish.
if you use that argument (most do), then ill show you at what point you should rip up your bible and throw away the other half.

[Mile High Shack]

explain how Joseph Smith could have a conversation on this earth with Jesus then, since Jesus said he won't step foot on this earth again until the final day?

[yavoon]

[QUOTE=yavoon]hey its not like I'm christian. just google it, lots of christians are ceasing to believe in the punishment side of hell.

obviously u aren't one of them. so how do u feel about all the ppl that will go into everlasting punishment for not following jesus?
[QUOTE]

first thing. Hell IS the punishment side. Not like there is good hell, and bad hell. second thing, God does not send you to hell, or heaven. You do. You either obey, or you don't. Your free will is the deciding factor.

:Broncos:

Thats like saying if a man w/ a gun gives u a choice and shoots u for one of the decisions that its ur choice whether to live or die.

[orange 4 life]

Let's just pause for a moment and each one of us examine our own hearts and ask ourselves. What makes us joyful? Luke 10:19-20

Laughing at religion (all kinds) is what makes me joyful :)

ill keep that to a minimum, and if nothing else keep it to myself, simply because we're dealing with peoples core faiths here, and thats something thats very important to alot of people.
there are certain religions and specific aspects of certain religions that i find to be laughable, but im not going down that road (unless someone attacks my faith first, in which case defending myself is justified) because at the end of the day that faith is important to that person regardless of whether i agree with it or not.....

...but i laugh my ASS of at bill hicks. ;D
best comedian ive ever heard.

[Atlas]

http://www.wrestling1.com/ssheaven/s196.jpg

[orange 4 life]

Oh here we go. Maverick is going to tell you all what I believe and what my religion teaches. I love these arguments. I've been in my religion my whole life and people read a pamphlet on how we worship Satan and eat babies and suddenly I don't know.


Wrong. Joseph Smith was visited by God and Jesus. He had later visitations by other Angels, but they didn't start the Church. Jesus Christ started the church and that's why It's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.


You could spell it right for starters and our Bible is the same Bible you might use. It's the King James version. I think you mean the The Book of Mormon: Another Testiment of Jesus Christ.

I will quote it EXACTLY:


LOL My book is probably older than you are. Everything you've said is untrue.

Don't go around telling people crap about my religion. You're just spreading lies and hating on something sacred to people. If you don't agree with us, fine Then just leave us alone.

If anyone wants to really know about my religion from a legitmate source, please send me a PM. I'll be happy to answer any questions. This site will help too. http://www.mormon.org/

well done my friend.
there's more that can be expounded here, but its not necessary.
youve done an excellent job of showing how someone (who calls himself a christian) can hear a bunch of lies and hate and spread it around as if its truth.

it amazes me that this kind of hate and lies still exists, and its even more amazing (other adjectives would be "comical", "frustrating", "pathetic", or "enfuriating" depending on your mood) that it comes from people prefessing to be "christians".
did these "christians" do the same amount of homework when choosing their own denomination of christianity (if any)?

i sure hope so.

[orange 4 life]

Waiting for the Catholic bashing...

:Broncos:

it doesnt much happen anymore.

we mormons have taken that burden from you. youre welcome.

[Bronx33]

Religious topics never go well......IMO.

[Arkie]

I wonder why Chef didn't quit the show when the USA strapped black people to their tanks as added armor in the war against Canada?

[yavoon]

Religious topics never go well......IMO.

its just a different animal is all:)

[orange 4 life]

well first many christians are turning away from all pain and torture concepts of hell. Society is changing and with it the bible will follow:).

On a more theoretical level I find a couple things interesting.
1)hell is the worst thing that could possibly happen to anyone, how could a caring compassionate person possibly not spend their entire lives evangilizing if they really believed in hell? Hitler, stalin, that poor girl on the generals daughter, childs play compared to an eternity of pain. I mean why do we have so many anti smoking ads? who gives a flying **** about smoking, what u cut off 10 or 20 years of ur life? nothing compared to ur fate for eternity.

2)hell as a concept would make god the most violent and oppressive entity in known existance. its just not something u hear very often.

#2 here is a very valid point, and one of the main reasons i studied religions before praying and deciding for myself (my family is episcopal, catholic, and jewish).
i frankly just couldnt believe in a God that would send people to hell because they hadnt ever heard his name, and i also had a hard time getting behind a God that would torture his own kids (even the bad ones) by sending them to the hell as you hear it talked about by some christian sects.

its the ANSWERS to these questions that led me to further investigate the mormon church.
nothing with human involvement can be perfect, but the scriptures can be, and i finally found a faith (the "religion" and "church" are secondary here. its the FAITH that im talking about) that had additional scriptures that were logical and flowed with the teachings of the bible. scriptures that helped explain alot of questions left by the old and new testaments.
im a person of faith AND logic, and thats where i found the mesh.

that said, i try to convert no one, and i insult no one else's beliefs.

just dont insult mine, and REALLY dont do it without any real knowledge, which is what was done here.

[Boobs McGee]

One of the funniest south parks ever (imo), two parter where the boys start up there own church when they find out that they might be going to hell.

Anyways, being an inactive member myself, and always taking quite the roasting from my friends whenver South Park makes fun of the church, I just cracked up when this part of the episode aired.

(for a little background, a citizen of south park had just been sent to hell, and he along with a big crowd of other hell newcomers were being introduced to hell by a sort of tour guide)

YOEMAN PURSER (CONT'D)
I'm the hell director, it looks like we
have about eight thousand six hundred and
fifteen of you newbies today, and for
those of you who were a little confused,
uh, you ARE dead, and this IS hell. So
abandon all hope and yadda yadda yadda
yadda. Uh, we're now going to start the
ORIENTATION process, which will last
about-
HELL NEWCOMER
Wait a minute, I shouldn't be here I was
a totally strict and devout Protestant! I
thought we went to heaven!
YOEMAN PURSER
Yes, well I'm afraid you were WRONG.
ANOTHER HELL NEWCOMER
I was a practicing Jehovah's Witness.
YOEMAN PURSER
You picked the wrong religion as well.
YET ANOTHER HELL NEWCOMER
Well, who was right? Who gets into
heaven.
YOEMAN PURSER
I'm afraid it was the Mormons. Yes, the
Mormons were the correct answer.
PEOPLE
AW!!
YOEMAN PURSER
So now, I'd like to quickly introduce
your new ruler and master for eternity,
Satan.



I couldn't help cracking a smile.

[Taco John]

why is it so important that women hold leadership roles in a church to you?


Because I don't believe that God is sexist.

[yavoon]

Because I don't believe that God is sexist.

shows what u know!:)

[orange 4 life]

I've got to say, living in Utah i've met some really nice Mormons and some really big a-holes, just like every other religion i'd take it. Could you answer a couple of questions for me please, for some reason, the missionaries never seemed to have the answer.

#1 Is it true that the mormon church was founded on masonic teachings? I know some of the temple rituals and I find it pretty strange how the bishop (or whoever holds the ceremonies) touches the bride and grooms genitals and how they give each other names that only the two of them know.

#2 I find it strange that blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the mormon religion untill they were sued by the NAACP. Then out of nowhere, the profit has a "vision from god" and allows them in.

#3 Mormons say that polygamy is wrong and they shun it. Well don't mormons believe that those who go to the highest kingdom will have many wives? Didn't Brigham Young have 23 wives and had a "vision from god" after the United States said they wouldn't allow Utah to become a state if they didn't give it up?

Thanks for the info, please tell the truth and remember to CTR

1) no, it wasnt Founded on masonic teachings. there is a correlation, but there is also correlations to judaism, islam, etc.
as for the temple ritual you mention, it quite simply doesnt happen. once again, an untrue rumor that just keeps on perpetuating itself.
its comical and ridiculous, but it doesnt happen.

2) this was my last hurdle to overcome before being baptized, its one of the reasons i dont attend church as much as i should, and its something i struggle with to this day.
that said, it had NOTHING to do with being sued. it was time, and in my eyes it was time from day one (a statement that puts me at odds with many other mormons).

the rationale behind it is scriptural, and its not book of mormon either. its biblical, and it goes back to Old Testament teachings in which certain ethnicities were denied full privelege of priesthood.

i plainly just dont see this as applying to black people, and i believe the church corrected its biggest mistake. thankfully, many black people are also forgiving that mistake and learning the teachings. in fact, the number of black converts is growing exponentially.

3) NOWHERE in the scriptures does it say ANYTHING about being rewarded for having multiple wives, and the decision to stop it was a simple one. when the original members of the church migrated to Utah, MANY of the men didnt make it. many were tortured (Joseph Smith among them), and many were killed. there was an ENORMOUS ratio of women to men, and to ensure that these women were cared for polygamy was practiced and accepted. like the question above, i struggled a bit with this, and think it shouldve been abolished before it was (late 1800's), but Joseph Smiths own words show how he felt. he described the need for polygamy as PAINFUL, yet he acknowledged its necessity. he himself only had three wives, and only one that was sealed forever (according to scriptural teachings). on the other hand, i think there were men like Brigham Young who probably enjoyed it, which is why he had so many wives (i believe it was actually over 30!!).

again though, the important thing here is that this practice is ABSOLUTELY against church teachings, and has been for a long time.
it isnt necessary anymore, and therefore it has been abolished (over 100 years ago), yet people to this day think mormons actively practice and encourage it.

ps- utes suck!! thanks for ruining our basketball season!!

[orange 4 life]

The most amusing thing is that Chef seems to think Scientology is a "religion"...we can debate whether Mormons are "Christians" but it's certainly a religion. Dum Dum Dum....That was a funny episode. Sorry Orange 4 Life, it was just plain funny. I respect your beliefs.


actually, i thought most of it was funny too, and so did a few mormon friends of mine.
incorrect assumptions are always a bit frustrating, but it was still funny.

the key is that a person has respect for the beliefs of others, whether or not they agree.
further, if someone IS going to attack someone else's beliefs (like maverick has done), they should at least have SOME base in reality, instead of just insulting someone else's faith without a clue about it.

[Mile High Shack]

Because I don't believe that God is sexist.

you are right he's not

but there are roles applied in a worship service that he has set forth

[yavoon]

you are right he's not

but there are roles applied in a worship service that he has set forth

dont u find it....ironic? that at present what separates taco john from being dipped in a lake of fire and being sent to heaven for everlasting glory is ideas of sexism? god is one tricksy bastard!

[El Guapo]

yes eh.

see earlier post.

now go get a clue before you try and instruct me on my own faith.
there is no such thing as a "mormon bible".
there is only one bible, though it of course has been translated endless times.
old testament and new testament.
the book of mormon is independant scripture, and it is no more or less relevent than the bible.

ps- if youre about to use the "the scriptures say 'nothing can be added to this" argument, you can skip it, because it will only make you look foolish.
if you use that argument (most do), then ill show you at what point you should rip up your bible and throw away the other half.


we'll see who's foolish in the end. good luck to you.:welcome:

[Arkie]

Religious topics never go well......IMO.

The Southern Baptists can't even get along with the Missionary Baptists in my town. The intolerances grow exponentially with the introduction of Catholics, Mormons, Methodists, Presbyterians, Seventh-Day Adventists, Society of Friends, Lutherans, Churches of Christ, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mennonites, Amish, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, Churches of the Nazarene, Christadelphians, Shakers, Disciples of Christ, Unification Church, Churches of God, Episcopals, Christian Science, Protestant Reformed Church, Reformed Baptists, Church of the Brethren, Living Church of God, Children of God, Reformed Presbyterian Church, Christian Reformed Church, Evangelical Congregational Church, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days, Reformed Church in America, Churches of the New Jerusalem, Anabaptists, Church Universal and Triumphant, Evangelical Free Church, Branch Davidian, African Methodist Episcopal Zion, African Orthodox Church, Armenian Evangelical Church, and Spiritists.

That was just some of the 2.1 billion Christians. LOL

It gets more complicated with...

Islam: 1.3 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif

[orange 4 life]

explain how Joseph Smith could have a conversation on this earth with Jesus then, since Jesus said he won't step foot on this earth again until the final day?

pretty simply my friend.
he DIDNT set foot on this earth.
he simply revealed himself in the form of his resurrected body, and he did it without setting foot on the earth.

now since apparently you too want to try and poke holes in someone else's faith YOU answer ME a few questions.

1) explain how an 18 year old kid with a 6th grade reading level writes a book that matches perfectly with the new and old testament. also explain how he did it in a manner of days. keep in mind before you answer that there were no scholars in his immediate area, and there were no cars or airplanes to get him to a place where there were. as a bonus point, tell me how this book could be written in multiple different dialects (as shown by NON mormon scholars who've studied the book).

2) explain to me how and why a loving God would banish someone to hell simply because they had never heard the name Jesus Christ. mind you we're not talking about someone who refuses the teachings, but someone who has never even been presented with them. is that a loving God to you?

3) the book of corinthians mentions baptisms for the dead. since you obviously follow the bible you must know what these are. can you explain them to me?

4) since you believe in a loving God, can you explain to me why Jesus wouldve only visited one small part of the world? can you also please explain where he was and what he was doing in the 3 days he was missing?
can you also tell me why it is that when we are now in an age where SO MANY things are different God wouldve decided not to give us his children any additional scritpures? is it not logical that a loving God would continue to give his people more information?
after all, he gave us the new testament after the old testament.
THATS okay with you, but the book of mormon isnt?
how does that work?

5) again, since you follow the bible, the book of thesolonians teaches that Christs Church was built on a foundation of Profits and Apostles (among other things). can i assume your church has these?

we could go on, but thats enough for now.

if your faith works for you, then thats fine with me and ill happily stay quiet and let you live your life, but if you want to get high and mighty and think your faith is superior then ill tell you two things.
1) youre judgemental, and thats not exactly what the scriptures teaches now is it? and
2) you need to do ALOT of research before you try and poke holes in my faith while defending your own.

its one thing when an atheist does it. they dont believe in God at all.
its entirely another story when it comes from a christian.

[orange 4 life]

Religious topics never go well......IMO.

they would if people came from a position of respect for others.

before i found my faith, i studied most all religions, and had HUNDREDS of conversations with members of various faiths and/or religions.

whether or not i was in agreement i always made sure to stay respectful and remember two things.
1) i was having the discussion to learn what (and why) they believed.
2) that those beliefs were sacred to them and therefore it wasnt my place to attack them in any way even if what they said didnt make sense to me.

many people (and it seems to be the "christians" who do it most) forget #2 and immediately go into attack mode as if someone of another faith poses a threat to them.
no respect for that person or what they believe in, which ironically isnt a very "christian" way to act.

[Taco John]

you are right he's not

but there are roles applied in a worship service that he has set forth



Really? Which chapter and verse? I'm pretty well versed in the Bible, so this comes as news to me. Where can I find information about the roles that God has set forth for men and women during worship service?

[orange 4 life]

we'll see who's foolish in the end. good luck to you.:welcome:

good information there :thumbs:

[watermock]

Anyone notice that this has devolved from Chef from South Park into a religous food fight?

[Taco John]

1) explain how an 18 year old kid with a 6th grade reading level writes a book that matches perfectly with the new and old testament. also explain how he did it in a manner of days. keep in mind before you answer that there were no scholars in his immediate area, and there were no cars or airplanes to get him to a place where there were. as a bonus point, tell me how this book could be written in multiple different dialects (as shown by NON mormon scholars who've studied the book).




As far as this question goes, I've seen a study that would indicate that large portions of the BOM were copied verbatim from large portions of the Holy Bible... As far as it being written in days, I've read theories that suggest that the entire religion was put together by Masons who then used Joseph Smith as a pawn.

I don't know if any of this is true, and honestly don't much care... But it would seem to address your first question.

For my part, I'm of the opinion that Christianity in America is so far off track of what Christ had intentioned that it's not even close.

[Arkie]

For my part, I'm of the opinion that Christianity in America is so far off track of what Christ had intentioned that it's not even close.

Amen.

[orange 4 life]

As far as this question goes, I've seen a study that would indicate that large portions of the BOM were copied verbatim from large portions of the Holy Bible... As far as it being written in days, I've read theories that suggest that the entire religion was put together by Masons who then used Joseph Smith as a pawn.

I don't know if any of this is true, and honestly don't much care... But it would seem to address your first question.

For my part, I'm of the opinion that Christianity in America is so far off track of what Christ had intentioned that it's not even close.

unfortunately, i think this last sentence is true, and that applies to many of those in the Mormon Church as well.

remember, im defending my FAITH here more than the actual church.
its my belief that the LDS church is the closest to being "right", simply because theyre the only ones that have the complete scriptures (or close to it anyway. as time goes on we discover more and more parts of what probably shouldve been the new testament that were eliminated. some ironically because they potentially empower women) in MY EYES.
to me, the core scriptures (and i use the word "core" in light of the many findings of supressed writings (some from mary magdeline) that have surfaced) include the old testament, the new testament, and the book of mormon.

because of that i have my grounding in the LDS church.
that said, i of course have issues with ANY organization run by human beings, who by nature are imperfect.
ive already acknowledged this, which to some would make me a "bad" mormon.
quite simply, its MY faith that im concerned with, so i can handle being viewed that way.

i dont agree with every decision the church has made, but on the same token i dont appreciate being attacked every time religion comes up.

it floors me that so many "christians" believe it was okay to add the new testament to the old, but not add the book of mormon now.
if you read it, pray about it, and dont believe it, fine with me.
but to BLINDLY discount it is basically the same thing many people did when christianity was in its infancy.

your last sentence is ALSO the reason when this comes up im always quick to point out that christianity is NOT a "religion", but simply a BELIEF.
ANYONE who has that belief is in FACT a christian.

if we spent less time arguing about it and more time trying to ACT like a christian the world would be a much better place.
i highly doubt Christ wanted to see people who SHARE a belief in him argue about which way that belief should manifest itself.
its for that reason that i never attack anyone else's beliefs and wont even question them until they attack me.

i KNOW in my heart that Christ would rather just see us try to live in His image as much as we can.
i also know in heart he'd be sickened with the number of different (and verbally warring) sects of christianity.

peace to all,

jake

[DivineLegion]

That's a good post, man. Odd, isn't it? This thing that's supposed to lead people towards peace and tolerance? Think of THE most intolerant people on the planet... 9 out of 10 of them are probably that way because of their religion.

I'm actually not anti-religion, believe it or not. I go off on the A-rabs a lot... mostly because they deserve it. But, I've given it to the Christians, Scientologists, UFOologists, you name it. Muslims are just the most consistently deserving of criticism, these days.

That said, I'm greatly in favor of protecting people's right to practice. But, the second it starts getting into other people's business, that's when we have a problem. Religious people tend to live in glass houses... not something you can do in this day and age.

The most important thing to remember if you're religious is... aside from those in your religion, no one else cares. Really... we just don't care. Have at it... do what you have to do, but if you want people to respect your religion, get out there and earn it.

Why do you think it is that Buddhism tends to be a religion that most people feel some level of respect for? It's the way they conduct themselves.

Good call on Buddhism :thumbs:

[Mile High Shack]

Really? Which chapter and verse? I'm pretty well versed in the Bible, so this comes as news to me. Where can I find information about the roles that God has set forth for men and women during worship service?
look in Timothy

[Mile High Shack]

pretty simply my friend.
he DIDNT set foot on this earth.
he simply revealed himself in the form of his resurrected body, and he did it without setting foot on the earth.

now since apparently you too want to try and poke holes in someone else's faith YOU answer ME a few questions.

1) explain how an 18 year old kid with a 6th grade reading level writes a book that matches perfectly with the new and old testament. also explain how he did it in a manner of days. keep in mind before you answer that there were no scholars in his immediate area, and there were no cars or airplanes to get him to a place where there were. as a bonus point, tell me how this book could be written in multiple different dialects (as shown by NON mormon scholars who've studied the book).---he was a good con man

2) explain to me how and why a loving God would banish someone to hell simply because they had never heard the name Jesus Christ. mind you we're not talking about someone who refuses the teachings, but someone who has never even been presented with them. is that a loving God to you?---b/c everyone has an opportunity to know how Jesus is, free will decides if we act on that

3) the book of corinthians mentions baptisms for the dead. since you obviously follow the bible you must know what these are. can you explain them to me?----you are off base on this one, taking it out of context

4) since you believe in a loving God, can you explain to me why Jesus wouldve only visited one small part of the world? can you also please explain where he was and what he was doing in the 3 days he was missing?
can you also tell me why it is that when we are now in an age where SO MANY things are different God wouldve decided not to give us his children any additional scritpures? is it not logical that a loving God would continue to give his people more information?
after all, he gave us the new testament after the old testament.
THATS okay with you, but the book of mormon isnt?
how does that work?
Jesus came to this earth, lived and died and was resurrected and his followers are to carry out his message, that's how, plus he can visit you any day you want, just crack open a bible and he speaks to you :)

5) again, since you follow the bible, the book of thesolonians teaches that Christs Church was built on a foundation of Profits and Apostles (among other things). can i assume your church has these?---LOL wow, dude

we could go on, but thats enough for now.

if your faith works for you, then thats fine with me and ill happily stay quiet and let you live your life, but if you want to get high and mighty and think your faith is superior then ill tell you two things.
1) youre judgemental, and thats not exactly what the scriptures teaches now is it? and
2) you need to do ALOT of research before you try and poke holes in my faith while defending your own.

its one thing when an atheist does it. they dont believe in God at all.
its entirely another story when it comes from a christian.

I'm not being condesending, but more power to you if you believe in Joesph Smith

[watermock]

Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum....

Why has this devolved when it's all about Chef? Who's going to give the children advise? Joseph Smith? Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum..

[orange 4 life]

I'm not being condesending, but more power to you if you believe in Joesph Smith

i think you made an unnecessary original remark (about Christ setting foot on the earth) trying to poke holes in my faith, and then when confronted with it responded by saying "im not trying to be condescending but (insert condescending remark here)"

either answer the questions posed or simply apologize for attacking my faith and move on.

[RaiderH8r]

Another reason why us agnostics are great... We don't b!tch to mods :)
I chose to worship Joe Pesci years ago. Nobody fvcks with Pesci....nobody.

[SoonerBronco]

I'm not being condesending, but more power to you if you believe in Joesph Smith

I'm not a Mormon, nor do I share thier beliefs, but I will not attack them for it. Shack, you are being condesending...the fact that you qualified your statement with that is nothing but admitting you are.

Orange 4 life obviously did a great amount of research and came to his own conclustions. Just because your pastor, preacher, or whoever tells you that other religions are wrong, stupid, or mislead doesn't mean you should believe him. Obvioulsy, Orange came from another faith and converted. That takes a lot of fortitude. Nothing like taking the beliefs a church has conditioned you to believe for the majority of your life and do an about face....

Even if you did do research and think what Orange believes is wrong, this is not the place to take issue with him. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe he has attacked or gone after a specific religion or faith from what I have read so far...

Orange, I commend you for reading your Bible and defending your faith.

[yavoon]

I'm not a Mormon, nor do I share thier beliefs, but I will not attack them for it. Shack, you are being condesending...the fact that you qualified your statement with that is nothing but admitting you are.

Orange 4 life obviously did a great amount of research and came to his own conclustions. Just because your pastor, preacher, or whoever tells you that other religions are wrong, stupid, or mislead doesn't mean you should believe him. Obvioulsy, Orange came from another faith and converted. That takes a lot of fortitude. Nothing like taking the beliefs a church has conditioned you to believe for the majority of your life and do an about face....

Even if you did do research and think what Orange believes is wrong, this is not the place to take issue with him. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe he has attacked or gone after a specific religion or faith from what I have read so far...

Orange, I commend you for reading your Bible and defending your faith.

I guess we'll just have to stick around and see who gets burned alive for all eternity and who doesn't wont we?

[SoonerBronco]

I guess we'll just have to stick around and see who gets burned alive for all eternity and who doesn't wont we?

If that's what you believe, I guess so...:giggle:

[yavoon]

If that's what you believe, I guess so...:giggle:

so conditioned by modern society....

[Mile High Shack]

i think you made an unnecessary original remark (about Christ setting foot on the earth) trying to poke holes in my faith, and then when confronted with it responded by saying "im not trying to be condescending but (insert condescending remark here)"

either answer the questions posed or simply apologize for attacking my faith and move on.

I won't apologize for anything

You believe in a man, I believe in God and his son Christ who set foot once on this earth

[SoonerBronco]

so conditioned by modern society....

Getting deep in here isn't it....?;D

[Bronx33]

I sleep in every sunday...;D

[BroncosMT]

I guess the funny thing is that when people want to know about different religions they go to the people who have NO CLUE as to the religion they are inquiring about. If I want to know more about the Jehovah's Witnesses do I go to a Catholic to find out??? NO I go to a member of that faith. The same things happens to the people of the Mormon faith. All of the anti-mormon propaganda is either written by un-educated people about the religion or people who were members who are upset with the church and want to get their anger out. Organized religion is there to help us be better people and to prepare to meet God. Is bashing what others believe accomplishing this? All churches mostly promote good. I am grateful for what I believe and grateful for all the blessings I receive on a daily basis from a loving Heavenly Father.

Thanks Orange 4 Life.

[yavoon]

Getting deep in here isn't it....?;D

not as deep as eternal screaming writhing damnation?

[DomCasual]

Ive been watching since it started and was a senior at Evergreen when they started. It was so funny because Trey graduated from Evergreen hs and there were rumors going around that certain SP characters were based on certain ppl they knew growing up. Mr. Garrison was actually Mr. Lukich who is a carbon copy of him without Mr hat, lol.


Anyway, I enjoyed the Scientology and Mormon episodes. I actually showed my grandparents (huge christians) those episodes, and they couldn't stop laughing and said those were very realistic descriptions of those religions. I would LOVE for them to do the Jehova's Witnesses, so I would be able to watch it in front of my wife EVERY DAY! (yes, she is a JW)

I doubt they would do my religion though, which is good.

Any bets on whether they put Isaac Hayes as himself in one of their episodes and just totally bash the hell out of him?
I lived in Evergreen and am Mormon. And I grew up Baptist. I think I should be a paid consultant on this thread.

Then again, I have only read the first page, so maybe by the time I am done, I will consider your money to be filthy lucre. :)

All that being said, I saw the Mormon episode - and while I felt that they presented a slanted perspective on the doctrine and history of the religion, I actually thought they represented Mormons themselves to be good people.

If Mormons ran around getting offended by every negative representation of the religion - well, they would be really offended a lot. I can't help it if you non-Mormons are all ignorant whoremongers! :peace:

(And by the way, that is the first time I have ever mentioned - other than to a few individuals - my religious preference on this board - lest anyone accuse me of being preachy.)

[sirhcyennek81]

I hate the offseason...

:Broncos:

[Bronx33]

I hate the offseason...

:Broncos:

Ditto

[DomCasual]

mormons are christians, eh? If you actually study religion you'll find that the founder of the mormon religion was instructed to begin this religion by the "angel of light." Ok, so knowing this go pick up a morman bible and lookup "angel of light" and you'll find (even in their own bible) that it defines that particular angel as satan. quite disturbing really (this was the case about 5-7 years ago, maybe they've caught the mistake by now).
I am not going to get into it with you, other than to say that you are terribly misinformed.

[sirhcyennek81]

Roman Catholic, and Gay, and conservative. Proof not only God exists...but has one hell of a sense of humor...

:Broncos:

[alkemical]

I grew up prodestant - And studied my jewish roots, then studied islam (due to stories about moses, i was really interested in moses) - then i moved onto Zen (which is a philosophy, not a religion) - then i moved into buddism and from there hindu/krsna - and from there i found my 'system'.

I know some of you find me rather combative with religion - but for the most part i can keep it within check. For instance, i don't have a problem with MHS at all - and well TheDave & I differ - but have no problems and OA and i have no problems.

I actually learn more about religion(s) by studying them. I believe in god, but there is no name attributed to god.



But i do have one question:

What comes before thought? For instance, what creates thought? Would that be our answer for how we should interpret the 'big bang' ? :)

[Boobs McGee]

Roman Catholic, and Gay, and conservative. Proof not only God exists...but has one hell of a sense of humor...

:Broncos:

LOL LOL LOL

that is some good **** man.

HAAH!

[DomCasual]

Wrong.

http://www.irr.org/MIT/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html

have fun, since youve been brainwashed. There are many differences between the Christian religions (and those of Jesus Christ) and Mormons who claim "Jesus Christ" is part of the religion.

and I said to look up "Angel of light," not just "angels."
Great website. Because - you know - if you want to find out something about someone, you go to that person's worst enemy, the one with an axe to grind.

As my son grows older and I want to teach him about the greatness of our country, I am going to have him sit down with a pile of 70's era Soviet Union propoganda literature. ::)

[DomCasual]

dont u find it....ironic? that at present what separates taco john from being dipped in a lake of fire and being sent to heaven for everlasting glory is ideas of sexism? god is one tricksy bastard!
When it comes to reasons why Taco gets sent to hell, I think ideas of sexism will be well down the list. :angel:

Actually, Mormons don't really believe in a hell - at least from a hell-fire and brimstone perspective. So Taco, I pronounce thy future "fire free" - you'll sleep better tonight, I am sure.

[Hulamau]

Any Budda's feel like they're being persecuted around here?


Most often its the fundamentalists of every stripe and religion, or school of thought, such as fundamentalist Nazis or Communist, that get the perscution complex going at the drop of a hat. It's what helps reaffirm their conviction of 'specialness' as 'the chosen one's' and belonging to the "A-Team" in their own minds, whatever that conception may be.

Most often such folks already view all of life through the lens of belonging to a collective group consciousness with the sense that "your either with us or against us" underlying and coloring all their relationships, regardless of how superficially pious and accepting on the surface they may appear to others who share different, and perhaps less strident, world views. Privately, though everyone who isn't just like them in sharing their professed belief is "doomed", which just reinforces the sense of separation, and so it goes on.

Isn't it interesting that in this day and age when people are free to debate and are even vigorously encouraged to point out the various absurdities in every area of knowledge and investigation, and yet when it comes to the many culturally conditioned beliefs that a person just happens to be born into, or have adopted, they are totally off limits to being challenged in detail, or examined too closely under the covers as Issac Hayes seems to suggest!?

It all boils down to a business deal or a bargaining with God, or with Life, in which "God will surely give 'me' continuity forever in paradise in exchange for my loyality and fidelity in this life etc". Or some such deal in which the whole ball of wax is swallowed hook, line and sinker in the process.

Any questioning of even the most outrageously absurb suggestions handed down from those traditions threatens, by definition, that very compact and bargain and thus is verboten from the get-go. Not only is one's 'eternality' supposedly at risk, but more to the point, one's sense of purpose and belonging in the here and now will likely have the rug yanked by such an honest and in-depth inquiry, so its little wonder it rarely ever gets much traction in such circles.

And no wonder such fanatical 'all-or-nothing' beliefs, whether in cults like Scientology or those that have hard-core Muslim, Christian, Communist or Nazi labels on them, have been at the very root of almost all the major wars and endless strife and suffering throughout history.

Yet, when the core beauty that does run through most of the major historical expressions of what it means to be alive is truly appreciated directly and intimately, free from the mountains of culturally biases myths overlaying, intertwining (and often obscuring) those fundamental truisms, and the many valuable descriptions for living a fulfilling life that are offered in them are appreciated for what they are, it would be impossible for anyone to go to war over a "My God is better than Your God" kind of a deal, or other such projections.

Indeed, if the 'here and now' got as much attention as the presumed 'here-after', I suspect this world would be a heck of a lot closer to a paradise than it is!

[BroncoBuff]

Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Taco John]

When it comes to reasons why Taco gets sent to hell, I think ideas of sexism will be well down the list. :angel:

Actually, Mormons don't really believe in a hell - at least from a hell-fire and brimstone perspective. So Taco, I pronounce thy future "fire free" - you'll sleep better tonight, I am sure.



Heh. Thanks Dom.

I don't personally believe in hell anyway. :angel:

[DomCasual]

Heh. Thanks Dom.

I don't personally believe in hell anyway. :angel:
I'm always looking out for you, man. Don't ever forget that. Don't. ever. forget. it.

[Bronx33]

Heh. Thanks Dom.

I don't personally believe in hell anyway. :angel:


What happens to guys like saddam when they die? for that matter what happens to guys like al davis?

[BroncoBuff]

I just watched a TV show about Mormons Sunday night on HBO.

To be quite honest, their ideas intrigue me.

[DomCasual]

At the end of the day, the one thing you ALL have to realize is that God (in whatever form you believe in Him or Her) is unquestionably a Bronco fan.

And He/She HATES the Kansas City Chiefs.

[Taco John]

Indeed, if the 'here and now' got as much attention as the presumed 'here-after', I suspect this world would be a heck of a lot closer to a paradise than it is!


True.

[Taco John]

What happens to guys like saddam when they die? for that matter what happens to guys like al davis?


I guess that all depends.

[DomCasual]

I just watched a TV show about Mormons Sunday night on HBO.

To be quite honest, their ideas intrigue me.
You just want to sleep with a different woman every night, you filthy degenerate. Didn't you see the disclaimer at the end of the show? Actual Mormons don't do that.

Here's a question. Why would anyone want more than one wife? I mean, with all due respect to my wife, who I really love, and for whom I am very grateful (really!) - one is enough.

[Pezman]

See, this is why I dont like treading towards religion discussions. They can offend damn near everyone.

It reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies "Big Fish"

Senior Ed Bloom: I don't know if you're aware of this, Josephine, but African parrots, in their native home of the Congo, they speak only French.

Josephine: Really?

Senior Ed Bloom: You're lucky to get four words out of them in English, but if you were to walk through the jungle, you'd hear them speaking the most elaborate French. Those parrots talk about everything. Politics, movies, fashion. Everything but religion.

Will Bloom: Why not religion, dad?

Senior Ed Bloom: It's rude to talk about religion. You never know who you're gonna offend.

Will Bloom: Josephine actually went to the Congo last year.

Senior Ed Bloom: Oh, so you know.

There's so much truth in that statement

[BroncosMT]

I just watched a TV show about Mormons Sunday night on HBO.

To be quite honest, their ideas intrigue me.


Broncobuff...if you are interested more you can go to LDS.ORG and there is a form to fill out to have some missionaries come and visit with you and answer anything you want to know.

[BroncosMT]

You just want to sleep with a different woman every night, you filthy degenerate. Didn't you see the disclaimer at the end of the show? Actual Mormons don't do that.

Here's a question. Why would anyone want more than one wife? I mean, with all due respect to my wife, who I really love, and for whom I am very grateful (really!) - one is enough.


I was thinking the same thing DOM....I can't handle the one wife I have let alone more....LOL.

[Meck77]

At the end of the day, the one thing you ALL have to realize is that God (in whatever form you believe in Him or Her) is unquestionably a Bronco fan.

.

AMEN (My first and last post for this thread)

[Arkie]

I just watched a TV show about Mormons Sunday night on HBO.

To be quite honest, their ideas intrigue me.


I saw that show too. Bill Paxton had to use viagra to keep his wives satisfied. Ha!

http://www.hbo.com/biglove/index.html

[yavoon]

When it comes to reasons why Taco gets sent to hell, I think ideas of sexism will be well down the list. :angel:

Actually, Mormons don't really believe in a hell - at least from a hell-fire and brimstone perspective. So Taco, I pronounce thy future "fire free" - you'll sleep better tonight, I am sure.

I swear christianity needs a checklist

[DomCasual]

I swear christianity needs a checklist
I was speaking fictitiously.

But in all seriousness, the Mormon concept of hell has never changed - nor has the Mormon concept of a loving God (as opposed to an angry, vengeful God).

[yavoon]

I was speaking fictitiously.

But in all seriousness, the Mormon concept of hell has never changed - nor has the Mormon concept of a loving God (as opposed to an angry, vengeful God).

facetiously?

[sirhcyennek81]

ficticiously: Not genuinely believed or felt; sham: <CITE>greeted me with a fictitious enthusiasm</CITE>
<CITE></CITE>
<CITE>:Broncos:</CITE>

[yavoon]

ficticiously: Not genuinely believed or felt; sham: <CITE>greeted me with a fictitious enthusiasm</CITE>
<CITE></CITE>
<CITE>:Broncos:</CITE>

u really are quite dumb.

[sirhcyennek81]

u really are quite dumb.

funny. I feel the same way about you.

:Broncos:

[DomCasual]

facetiously?
Either fictitiously (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fictitiously) or facetiously (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facetiously) could be used. The meaning I was looking for was "fictitiously" - not genuinely believed or felt; sham. I was saying that Taco would go to hell for many reasons greater than his ideas about sexism - when, in fact, I don't believe in a literal hell to begin with.

Facetiously would have fit my intent as well, though: playfully jocular; humorous.

So basically, I should have said, "I was speaking fictitiously and facetiously."

Wiseass. :)

[yavoon]

funny. I feel the same way about you.

:Broncos:

well I know u feel that way u've chased me around in threads like a child.

[yavoon]

Either fictitiously (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fictitiously) or facetiously (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facetiously) could be used. The meaning I was looking for was "fictitiously" - not genuinely believed or felt; sham. I was saying that Taco would go to hell for many reasons greater than his ideas about sexism - when, in fact, I don't believe in a literal hell to begin with.

Facetiously would have fit my intent as well, though: playfully jocular; humorous.

So basically, I should have said, "I was speaking fictitiously and facetiously."

Wiseass. :)

=D

[sirhcyennek81]

well I know u feel that way u've chased me around in threads like a child.

Yes, I come to this board just for you. Thank you for exposing me. :thumbsup:

:Broncos:

[Spider]

No chef ? that will suck ...... But the show will go on

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What happens to guys like saddam when they die? for that matter what happens to guys like al davis?

They're reincarnated as c*ckroaches.

[orange 4 life]

I won't apologize for anything

You believe in a man, I believe in God and his son Christ who set foot once on this earth

you dont get it, so you attack it.
is that really what youre all about?
youre making an ass of yourself, and youre really starting to make me angry in the process since youre insulting me without ANY knowledge of what youre talking about.

do you believe in moses and all the rest of the prophets?
so do we.

we do NOT "believe in a man".
thats simply wrong, but you probably already know that.

youre a christian right?
then you must know that YOUR faith is predicated on the belief in prophets right?
only difference between conventional christianity and mormons is that we believe there were prophets after the new testament.
we believe joseph smith was a PROPHET.
NOTHING more, and nothing less.
he wasnt a god, and he isnt the God.
just a prophet.

the fact that you ignored EVERYTHING i typed and just threw out an insult or two is a few things.
its arrogant, its cruel, its uneducated, and its cowardly.

i wouldve expected more from you.

[Popps]

Matthew 7 I believe

"...not everyone who cries out Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven....." etc etc

to paraphrase, Jesus said on the final day, many will say, Lord didn't we do great things for you, but he will say, depart from me, I don't know you.

It takes more than just being a good person

Damn, a lot of us are screwed, huh?

My mom is my hero. She basically raised me on her own. Extremely intelligent, loving, gentle, giving person. She'd stop whatever she was doing to help you out.

But, despite being raised Catholic, she chose to depart from the church when she was old enough to make her own decisions.

So, despite her living her life in the perfect image of everything Jesus teaches... because she doesn't "know him"... she's going to rot in hell, huh?

Bummer. She'll be all broken up about it when I tell her.

[orange 4 life]

You just want to sleep with a different woman every night, you filthy degenerate. Didn't you see the disclaimer at the end of the show? Actual Mormons don't do that.

Here's a question. Why would anyone want more than one wife? I mean, with all due respect to my wife, who I really love, and for whom I am very grateful (really!) - one is enough.

....or maybe "too much"? :rofl:

i love my wife also, and i look forward to spending eternity with her....

....but i couldnt handle two!!

[orange 4 life]

Either fictitiously (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fictitiously) or facetiously (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facetiously) could be used. The meaning I was looking for was "fictitiously" - not genuinely believed or felt; sham. I was saying that Taco would go to hell for many reasons greater than his ideas about sexism - when, in fact, I don't believe in a literal hell to begin with.

Facetiously would have fit my intent as well, though: playfully jocular; humorous.

So basically, I should have said, "I was speaking fictitiously and facetiously."

Wiseass. :)

its ironic that the "hell" came up, because the mormon explanation of hell is one of the things that caused me to investigate the church.
i never understood a few things growing up.
hell, marriage vows that end in "until death do us part", people being condemned to "hell" for not hearing Gods name, why people are retarded and or die young, etc. etc.

all things i found answers for, and all things that were LOGICAL answers according to what a LOVING God would want for his people.

again, i respect the beliefs of all, but for me it was these questions (and many MANY more) that caused me to investigate so many faiths before finding my own.
i just consider myself lucky to come from a diverse background and have had parents that encouraged me to question things when i was an adult and even when i was still a child.

[No1BroncoFan]

What happens to guys like saddam when they die? for that matter what happens to guys like al davis?
The Devil gets a little more worried as each year passes. He knows when Al dies, his reign is over. ;D

Ben

[ClevelandBronco]

I don't really care much about the differences between Mormon ideas and my own ideas as an unaffiliated Evangelical Protestant.

As long as a person is on a spiritually path that doesn't threaten the lives of my children (see radical Islam or fundamentalist Atheism), I consider that man to be my brother.

[brother love]

Its funny, He does the show when they make fun of every other religon than his. When Scientology gets made fun they have carried it to far!

[bendog]

Accept Jesus as your personal saver or burn in hell for enternity. nuff said.

[Boobs McGee]

7/8's of an acre seems like a pretty small piece of real estate to spend an eternity on :P

[bendog]

What kills me with mormonism is that in heaven you spend eternity with your wife and family.....

[RaiderH8r]

What happens to guys like saddam when they die? for that matter what happens to guys like al davis?
Saddam will take up a homosexual relationship with the Prince of Darkness....DUH!!! (Al Davis IS the prince of Darkness)

[orange 4 life]

What kills me with mormonism is that in heaven you spend eternity with your wife and family.....

one of the answers to a question i had always had.

i never understood the whole "till death do us part".

if we go on and have eternal life, shouldnt we have eternal marriage too?
shouldnt we be with our family?

even as a child (before even knowing what "mormon" was) i thought people should stay together forever.
the mormon belief in eternal marriage is a wonderful one to me.

[bendog]

I wonder about Saddam. I think he's insane, but I really wonder whether, despite his crimes against the Iraqis, his regime actually caused fewer to die than would've died if the three tribes had been at each other's throats. And if so, what's that say about Bushii ... and us? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?" Some fundy told me that years ago, and I laughed in his face, because I don't see a God who'd punish a person for good intentions.

[bendog]

one of the answers to a question i had always had.

i never understood the whole "till death do us part".

if we go on and have eternal life, shouldnt we have eternal marriage too?
shouldnt we be with our family?

even as a child (before even knowing what "mormon" was) i thought people should stay together forever.
the mormon belief in eternal marriage is a wonderful one to me.

Sounds like Hell to me. I not only get Mrs Dog, but her mother too? For eternity?

[Mile High Shack]

one of the answers to a question i had always had.

i never understood the whole "till death do us part".

if we go on and have eternal life, shouldnt we have eternal marriage too?
shouldnt we be with our family?

even as a child (before even knowing what "mormon" was) i thought people should stay together forever.
the mormon belief in eternal marriage is a wonderful one to me.

Jesus answered this question when the saducees were trying to "trap" him

but I assume you already knew that since you are so well versed in the bible

[Mile High Shack]

The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,


Mat 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.


Mat 22:25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:


Mat 22:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.


Mat 22:27 And last of all the woman died also.


Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.


Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.


Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,


Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Mat 22:33 And when the multitude heard [this], they were astonished at his doctrine.

[Rohirrim]

In the Gnostic bible, Peter tells the story that he told Jesus that he was disturbed with the idea of eternal damnation. He said it didn't make sense to him that an all-merciful God would damn some souls for all eternity. Jesus replied in effect, "Don't tell anybody, but there are ways out." There are a whole bunch of testaments, epistles and bibles from that period of time (hundreds in fact) that weren't included in what we call The Bible today. Somebody back then made the decision of what went in, and what was left out. I guess the part that got left in was the Holy Word of God, and the rest was Miscellaneous Stuff. ;D

[Mile High Shack]

In the Gnostic bible, Peter tells the story that he told Jesus that he was disturbed with the idea of eternal damnation. He said it didn't make sense to him that an all-merciful God would damn some souls for all eternity. Jesus replied in effect, "Don't tell anybody, but there are ways out." There are a whole bunch of testaments, epistles and bibles from that period of time (hundreds in fact) that weren't included in what we call The Bible today. Somebody back then made the decision of what went in, and what was left out. I guess the part that got left in was the Holy Word of God, and the rest was Miscellaneous Stuff. ;D

or not written and inspired by the Holy Spirit

but whatever you want to believe

no offense, but I know you hate all religion so I take your opinion with less than a grain of salt

[Mile High Shack]

o4life, you have exceeded your PM limits

bascially Jake

list out your points, verse by verse and show me how I have no leg to stand on and point by point, I'll show you verses in the bible that refute every point you bring up in regards to the bible...not the book written by Joseph Smith

[alkemical]

MHS, why is the book of enoch not included?

(I have lots of old testaments in my house i read)

I figure the more knowledge and POV's the better, i mean for something *that* important, wouldn't full research be best?

I think they should make Sci-FI movies off of the hindu stories, those are bad ass.

[bendog]

Where'd the bishops do the deal on what was in and what was out? Council of Cathage circa 300 AD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible

http://www.hcna.us/columns/lost%20books.htm

The problem with God's will guiding what makes it in and what didn't is then you've got God actually directing people's actions, and then you have sticky wicket questions like: Why didn't God stop Hitler, or Why'd he tell bushii invading iraq was a good idea?

[bendog]

MHS, why is the book of enoch not included?

(I have lots of old testaments in my house i read)

I figure the more knowledge and POV's the better, i mean for something *that* important, wouldn't full research be best?

I think they should make Sci-FI movies off of the hindu stories, those are bad ass.
enoch almost aced revelations off the "list."

[Mile High Shack]

MHS, why is the book of enoch not included?

(I have lots of old testaments in my house i read)

I figure the more knowledge and POV's the better, i mean for something *that* important, wouldn't full research be best?

I think they should make Sci-FI movies off of the hindu stories, those are bad ass.

b/c it's not an inspired Word of God

that's why

[alkemical]

enoch almost aced revelations off the "list."


I didn't know that bendog.

[alkemical]

b/c it's not an inspired Word of God

that's why


How does one determine that.

[Mile High Shack]

How does one determine that.

based on the content and how it fits in relation to the rest of the bible

if I remember right, you asked about this last off season too

not sure what I said then, but if I research it again, I'll say the same thing as I did last year

God is in charge of everything and he has control over what books of the bible are in there, I'd dare say after this many years, he knows what he is doing in regards to what books are in there

you say men determine that, I say God is in control and determines it

[bendog]

The book the Shepherd of Hermas, which almost replaced the book of the Revelation, didn’t make it into the canon of the Bible, but it is still available in many compilations such as Barnstone’s

my bad.

But Enoch illustrates the fallicy of "god's decision" perfectly. The fact is that different Christian churches disagree on what is in and what is out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

[bendog]

God decides that babies die? I think not.

[Rohirrim]

http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks.htm

The emperor Constantine decided what church doctrine would be, and then threw out all the writings that did not coincide with that doctrine. Originally, there were an estimated 800 books of the bible. The Catholic Church settled on 73. The Protestants on 66. Who knows what lies in the vaults of the Vatican. I don't hate religion. I just hate closed minds.

[bendog]

http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks.htm

The emperor Constantine decided what church doctrine would be, and then threw out all the writings that did not coincide with that doctrine. Originally, there were an estimated 800 books of the bible. The Catholic Church settled on 73. The Protestants on 66. Who knows what lies in the vaults of the Vatican. I don't hate religion. I just hate closed minds.
Hey, are you intimating that Constatine's sudden conversion might have had political motivations!!?? (-:

[Mile High Shack]

God decides that babies die? I think not.

he allows things to happen, men has free will which creates chaos on the earth generally

bad things happens sometimes, to everyone, even good people

[Mile High Shack]

The book the Shepherd of Hermas, which almost replaced the book of the Revelation, didn’t make it into the canon of the Bible, but it is still available in many compilations such as Barnstone’s

my bad.

But Enoch illustrates the fallicy of "god's decision" perfectly. The fact is that different Christian churches disagree on what is in and what is out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

false prophets face even greater punishment in hell

[alkemical]

based on the content and how it fits in relation to the rest of the bible

if I remember right, you asked about this last off season too

not sure what I said then, but if I research it again, I'll say the same thing as I did last year

God is in charge of everything and he has control over what books of the bible are in there, I'd dare say after this many years, he knows what he is doing in regards to what books are in there

you say men determine that, I say God is in control and determines it

Well doesn't enoch get mentioned in the bible, infact i think he'd be rather important since god took him along to heaven, correct? I also think enoch is part of the linage of noah....

[Mile High Shack]

Damn, a lot of us are screwed, huh?

My mom is my hero. She basically raised me on her own. Extremely intelligent, loving, gentle, giving person. She'd stop whatever she was doing to help you out.

But, despite being raised Catholic, she chose to depart from the church when she was old enough to make her own decisions.

So, despite her living her life in the perfect image of everything Jesus teaches... because she doesn't "know him"... she's going to rot in hell, huh?

Bummer. She'll be all broken up about it when I tell her.

everyone has a chance to not "burn in hell"

whether you chose to accept it, it's up to you

I don't make the rules

[Mile High Shack]

Well doesn't enoch get mentioned in the bible, infact i think he'd be rather important since god took him along to heaven, correct? I also think enoch is part of the linage of noah....

yeah and?

what's your point

like I said, if this book of enoch was meant to be in the bible, it would've been in there

[bendog]

false prophets face even greater punishment in hell
But waht is your religion to tell another religion that their bible isn't "right?" I just find it rather .... uppity.

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church has a few additional books in its canon: Jubilees, Book of Enoch, the Shepherd of Hermas, 1 Clement, Acts of Paul, and some uniquely Ethiopian books. There is a matter of some controversy as to what constitutes "canon" in this religious body. The Pe****ta of the Syriac Orthodox Church excludes 2-3 John, 2 Peter, Jude, and Revelation. The Armenian Orthodox include Third Epistle to the Corinthians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible

And more to the pt, imo, I once took a class on one of Paul's letters from a professor of religion at Millsaps College, and scholars seemed largely in agreement that as it's printed in the Bible is not in fact the order in which it was written, ie the bible guys had fragments but they failed to properly order them. Sort of blows the "god's guiding hand" argument out of the water.

[Mile High Shack]

But waht is your religion to tell another religion that their bible isn't "right?" I just find it rather .... uppity.

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church has a few additional books in its canon: Jubilees, Book of Enoch, the Shepherd of Hermas, 1 Clement, Acts of Paul, and some uniquely Ethiopian books. There is a matter of some controversy as to what constitutes "canon" in this religious body. The Pe****ta of the Syriac Orthodox Church excludes 2-3 John, 2 Peter, Jude, and Revelation. The Armenian Orthodox include Third Epistle to the Corinthians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible

And more to the pt, imo, I once took a class on one of Paul's letters from a professor of religion at Millsaps College, and scholars seemed largely in agreement that as it's printed in the Bible is not in fact the order in which it was written, ie the bible guys had fragments but they failed to properly order them. Sort of blows the "god's guiding hand" argument out of the water.

like I keep saying

there is obviously a reason why the bible in it's form today is what it is

God wanted it that way and the other books you speak about are not in there for that reason

go ahead and say, man created the bible in it's form today

and I'll keep saying, God is in control and there is a reason the bible is in it's form today

[alkemical]

yeah and?

what's your point

like I said, if this book of enoch was meant to be in the bible, it would've been in there


Well, it does explain and talk about rebel angels who came down and mated with 'earth' women....

[Mile High Shack]

Well, it does explain and talk about rebel angels who came down and mated with 'earth' women....

oh good lordHa!

[Rohirrim]

Hey, are you intimating that Constatine's sudden conversion might have had political motivations!!?? (-:

The fact that the political considerations of Constantine and the early church meshed with the divine inspiration of what books went into the Bible is purely coincidental.
;)

[alkemical]

oh good lordHa!


I knew phrasing it like that would make you laugh, but it does say that the watchers came down and took the women of earth.....

sounds alot like the people that lived on mt. olympus

[bendog]

like I keep saying

there is obviously a reason why the bible in it's form today is what it is

God wanted it that way and the other books you speak about are not in there for that reason

go ahead and say, man created the bible in it's form today

and I'll keep saying, God is in control and there is a reason the bible is in it's form today
But the Bible IS NOT IN ONLY ONE FORM. Why is your's right and others' wrong?

[bendog]

The fact that the political considerations of Constantine and the early church meshed with the divine inspiration of what books went into the Bible is purely coincidental.
;)
My Fifth Grader had the Constantine myth on her test last week. I held my tongue. (-:

[Mile High Shack]

But the Bible IS NOT IN ONLY ONE FORM. Why is your's right and others' wrong?

it's the only one inspired by the Holy Spirit

[enjolras]

it's the only one inspired by the Holy Spirit

This is so fascinating... how do you KNOW that the version you happen to read is the only one inspired by the holy spirit exactly?

Did you ask said spirit? Did Jesus come down to earth and tell you? Was it a burning bush?

Or was it the fact that the community in which you live, for various and mainly historical reasons, largely embraces your version and therefore it must be right? It is interesting to me that so many fervent Christians would be fervent Buddhists or Muslims if only they had been born somewhere else.

[alkemical]

it's the only one inspired by the Holy Spirit


Just the bible you use, or all bibles?

Some practices say that the holy spirit is really your 'upper self'

[Spider]

Shack takin alot of heat here ..........Dont know why he just didnt say he has faith that the holy bible is the true path to god , and that he doesnt know why bad things happens to good people but he has faith that , the those that suffered the bad deeds are now in a better place breaking bread with thier lord and savior .............

[Spider]

Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth .................. or not ;D

[BroncoInferno]

or not written and inspired by the Holy Spirit

but whatever you want to believe

How is one to know that the person(s) who picked the books to be included in the Bible were correct in determining what was and was not inspired by the Holy Spirit? How can you be sure they did not make a mistake, or that they were not driven by personal political or dogmatical beliefs rather than an honest interest in uncovering the truth?

[Spider]

Faith either you have it or you dont .........

[Rohirrim]

It's a shame that we'll probably never know what was contained within the "church" that Jesus passed on to Peter.

[Master___Pain]

After reading this thread it's no wonder I keep my faith, spirituality and belief system to myself. It appears that I could have a great time tailgating with some fellow bronco fans at an Omane tailgate and then have them attempt to completely try to tear down my belief system another day. I stick with pretending that everyone here is of the church of the Broncos:thumbs: and those that do not believe in the scripture of the Vertical striped socks are damned to a life in hell..... :D

[Hogan11]

After reading this thread it's no wonder I keep my faith, spirituality and belief system to myself. It appears that I could have a great time tailgating with some fellow bronco fans at an Omane tailgate and then have them attempt to completely try to tear down my belief system another day. I stick with pretending that everyone here is of the church of the Broncos:thumbs: and those that do not believe in the scripture of the Vertical striped socks are damned to a life in hell..... :D

Actually Pain, IMO, if everyone kept their religion to themselves, there would be far fewer problems for everyone. Live and let live....it's not a very hard concept.

And the great thing about the tailgates is that all this stuff is left at the door. I have never encountered any religious or political anything at any of the tailgates or pre-tailgate parties I've ever attended in Denver or on the road....it truly is the "Church of the Broncos" during such events and I know I'm more than thankful for that being the case.

[Master___Pain]

Actually Pain, IMO, if everyone kept their religion to themselves, there would be far fewer problems for everyone. Live and let live....it's not a very hard concept.

I agree

And the great thing about the tailgates is that all this stuff is left at the door. I have never encountered any religious or political anything at any of the tailgates or pre-tailgate parties I've ever attended in Denver or on the road....it truly is the "Church of the Broncos" during such events and I know I'm more than thankful for that being the case.

I have never had any confrontation with any OM tailgaters. And as was mentioned in another thread, most people are the same on here as they are in person, for better or for worse.

[Bronx33]

Actually Pain, IMO, if everyone kept their religion to themselves, there would be far fewer problems for everyone. Live and let live....it's not a very hard concept.

And the great thing about the tailgates is that all this stuff is left at the door. I have never encountered any religious or political anything at any of the tailgates or pre-tailgate parties I've ever attended in Denver or on the road....it truly is the "Church of the Broncos" during such events and I know I'm more than thankful for that being the case.



Exactly religious pissing contests are a bad thing.

[orangenblue2]

As long as a person is on a spiritually path that doesn't threaten the lives of my children (see radical Islam or fundamentalist Atheism), I consider that man to be my brother.

What are you talking about? "Fundamentalist Atheism"??? Maybe you could enlighten us as to what in the wide, wide, world of sports that means? Secondly, would you explain how said "fundamentalist atheism" threatens the lives of your children? I'll be waitin'...

[spdirty]

Off topic a lil bit...After Bronco games are over, have any of you guys seen that weirdo that always holds up that "Jesus Saves" sign and just utters a bunch of nonsense while everyone walks past and tries to ignore him? He's like right by the bridge and southeast of Invesco as you walk towards Auraria. That dude is friggin nuts.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Actually Pain, IMO, if everyone kept their religion to themselves, there would be far fewer problems for everyone. Live and let live....it's not a very hard concept.

Yep - although religious discussions can be enjoyable when there's mutual consent, i.e., when you take away the evangelical/missionary/proselytizing component and when you don't have to contend with those people who believe theirs is the only "true" religion (in other words, when you're talking with religious liberals.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What are you talking about? "Fundamentalist Atheism"??? Maybe you could enlighten us as to what in the wide, wide, world of sports that means?

:giggle:

That's a good one.

I'll have to keep it in mind for the next time some atheist knocks on my door handing out tracts or tries to convert me. ;)

[ClevelandBronco]

What are you talking about? "Fundamentalist Atheism"??? Maybe you could enlighten us as to what in the wide, wide, world of sports that means? Secondly, would you explain how said "fundamentalist atheism" threatens the lives of your children? I'll be waitin'...

I'd define Fundamentalist Atheism as the kind of atheism that seeks to convert the world to atheism, whether or not the rest of the world wants to be converted. It seeks to control our laws and our culture in its own favor, and it views any other way of thinking as ignorant at best, but -- more likely -- evil incarnate.

(I'm guessing that you define Fundamentalist Christianity in a similar way, but that's just a guess.)

There are a few guys here who are outspoken about the evil nature of any traditional faith system. Those are the guys I'd put in the Fundamentalist Atheist category. They hold their own religious beliefs in such high regard that they'd happily snuff out all other beliefs.

I consider their totalitarianism to be a direct attack against the quality of my children's lives.

It took me 20 adult years to understand that my own atheism was my religion. If you haven't gotten there yet, I understand. Let's just disagree.

I promise to protect your right to practice your religion, if you'll promise me and my children the same right.

[ClevelandBronco]

:giggle:

That's a good one.

I'll have to keep it in mind for the next time some atheist knocks on my door handing out tracts or tries to convert me. ;)

They've been knocking at your door since The Communist Manifesto was published. You already signed up.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

They've been knocking at your door since The Communist Manifesto was published. You already signed up.

:oyvey:

Doesn't the public school system in Cleveland teach kids the difference between communism and liberalism anymore?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'd define Fundamentalist Atheism as the kind of atheism that seeks to convert the world to atheism, whether or not the rest of the world wants to be converted. It seeks to control our laws and our culture in its own favor, and it views any other way of thinking as ignorant at best, but -- more likely -- evil incarnate.

Pick up on the conspiracy nut. :giggle:

(Although I'm sure you have plenty of links from Oral Roberts U or James Dobson to prove the existence of such a thing.)

:D

[ClevelandBronco]

:oyvey:

Doesn't the public school system in Cleveland teach kids the difference between communism and liberalism anymore?

No. Sadly, I don't think they do.

[ClevelandBronco]

Pick up on the conspiracy nut. :giggle:

(Although I'm sure you have plenty of links from Oral Roberts U or James Dobson to prove the existence of such a thing.)

:D

No, I don't have a single link for you. I have no cartoons to illustrate my position. Nothing to see here except my own opinion.

Move on, folks...

[anthonypacino]

If anything EVERYBODY needs to be able to laugh at themselves sometimes. It is healthly, to be able to look at yourself and not take things so seriously.

[ClevelandBronco]

Pick up on the conspiracy nut.

We threaten your religion and you threaten ours.

We already got that.

Constuct an argument. For once in your pitiful existence here, construct an argument.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We threaten your religion and you threaten ours.

We already got that.

You have no clue re: the nature or the specifics of my religion. (Probably because I'm not trying to lobby the government to force it on you or your kids in public schools or other public forums.)

You, on the other hand, belong to that evangelical fringe minority who won't be satisfied until everyone in the world is converted to your brand of Christianity.

Constuct an argument. For once in your pitiful existence here, construct an argument.

You're watching your favorite sock puppet and his approval numbers circle the drain, you're getting hammered on a daily basis with proof that you were wrong and your political opponents were right about nearly everything they said about BushCo, and you're talking about my "pitiful existence here?"

:rofl: That is some truly funny sh_t. :D

construct an argument.

You wouldn't recognize a valid argument if you fell in one.

[Rohirrim]

Actually Pain, IMO, if everyone kept their religion to themselves, there would be far fewer problems for everyone. Live and let live....it's not a very hard concept.



I feel so blessed when Hogan passes through in his role as Archbishop of the Internet, sprinkling holy water on us lowly peons, offering his guidance and wisdom. :sunshine:

[Mile High Shack]

How is one to know that the person(s) who picked the books to be included in the Bible were correct in determining what was and was not inspired by the Holy Spirit? How can you be sure they did not make a mistake, or that they were not driven by personal political or dogmatical beliefs rather than an honest interest in uncovering the truth?

b/c God is in control
not man
that's how

[Rohirrim]

I sure would like access to ALL of the books, including what's kept in the Vatican's basement, so that I could make up my own mind. After all, for some reason I do have free will. I can't imagine that I was designed that way just so I could turn around and meekly believe whatever someone else tells me. In the days when the church was in charge you had no choice. You either believed what they told you or you burned in the public square. Now, we're a bit more enlightened.

[alkemical]

I'd define Fundamentalist Atheism as the kind of atheism that seeks to convert the world to atheism, whether or not the rest of the world wants to be converted. It seeks to control our laws and our culture in its own favor, and it views any other way of thinking as ignorant at best, but -- more likely -- evil incarnate.

(I'm guessing that you define Fundamentalist Christianity in a similar way, but that's just a guess.)

There are a few guys here who are outspoken about the evil nature of any traditional faith system. Those are the guys I'd put in the Fundamentalist Atheist category. They hold their own religious beliefs in such high regard that they'd happily snuff out all other beliefs.

I consider their totalitarianism to be a direct attack against the quality of my children's lives.

It took me 20 adult years to understand that my own atheism was my religion. If you haven't gotten there yet, I understand. Let's just disagree.

I promise to protect your right to practice your religion, if you'll promise me and my children the same right.


Hey man, that's all i ask for. I defend the right to practice your own way, or to not practice.

I do bait some fundamentalists at times, but honestly i hold jesus up to the same regaurd as buddah. (It means no insult, i just believe that both are important teachers).

[Hogan11]

I feel so blessed when Hogan passes through in his role as Archbishop of the Internet, sprinkling holy water on us lowly peons, offering his guidance and wisdom. :sunshine:

You should.

[BroncoBuff]

b/c it's not an inspired Word of God

that's why
Whatever you deign "inspired" - be it the gnostic gospels, Enoch, Thomas or the four included in the Bible .... on thing's for sure:

JESUS WAS A PACIFIST.If you are truly a Christian ... if you actually read Matthew's beatitudes or "render unto Caesar," or "the plank in your own eye," or "offer him the other cheek" ... if you TRULY READ THESE LESSONS and really, truly BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR SAVIOUR ..... You simply cannot believe in any war. In fact, you barely believe in self defense!

I'm not saying W is not a Christian, he's just a Christian who doesn't carefully read and live the words and teachings of Jesus Christ. A Christian who prefers to make secular political policy without much true contemplation toward WWJD.


I struggle with my faith constantly. But I know what Jesus said. I know WWJD when confronted with an option to use military force. And I don't think it matters which gospels "made the cut" to realize this.

__

I'M MAKING THIS POST A NEW THREAD GUYS. IT REALLY BOTHERS ME, THIS CHRISTIAN HYPOCRISY....

[alkemical]

pat robertson... a satanist?

[BroncoBuff]

pat robertson... a satanist?
When Pat dies ... the world ends.