Broncos | Team reportedly pushing for Abraham trade

[HEAV]

Ken Berger, of Newsday, reports several teams remain interested in trading for New York Jets franchise free agent DE John Abraham, and a person with knowledge of the situation said Thursday, March 9, that the Denver Broncos have been the most aggressive team pursuing Abraham. Abraham has made clear through agents Rich Rosa and Tony Agnone that he wants the security of a long-term commitment or he wants to be traded to a team that will give him one. The Broncos have the 22nd and 29th picks in the upcoming NFL Draft. Although there has been speculation that the Jets and Broncos already are far along in negotiations, a person familiar with Abraham's situation said that a deal may not happen for a week or two.

[Clockwork Orange]

Where's Matt Millen when you need him?

[SoCalBronco]

Please outbid us Detroit or Atlanta.

[watermock]

Why didn't we just keep Berry? Argg...

I was all excited but I guess it's pushed back another day. Let the hand wringing commence.

[watermock]

Where's Matt Millen when you need him?

Where's Bronco Billy?

[Clockwork Orange]

Where's Bronco Billy?

Probably screwing us by telling Millen not to trade the 9th overall pick for Abraham and the Jets 3rd rounder.

That's probably the only thing that's going to save us from dealing one of our 1sts for him.

[DBroncos4life]

joy, Ive always wanted to know what it would be like to have two first rounders. Someday.

[Clockwork Orange]

joy, Ive always wanted to know what it would be like to have two first rounders. Someday.

We were so close too. :nono:

[epicSocialism4tw]

I just cant believe that this guy is worth a number 1. Especially in this draft. I just hope that the BBT doesnt overbid for the guy. He seems like he has the same attitude Trevor did.

[NFLBRONCO]

I always wanted to use 2 #1's in one draft but, honestly never expected us to use both.

[HEAV]

Why didn't we just keep Berry?

Money, we were up against the cap, GM (shanny) thought it wasn't worth it. We had Heyward.......................

Look at least Shanny realized, finally, that the Broncos need a dynamic pass rusher. It took three years, but now he gets it'. Scheme don't mean crap, blitzing the LB and opening the middle don't work. You need talent at the DE. Got Brown playing healthy and making plays. Now get a rocket for the other side and let the big boy's hold the middle.

[DBroncos4life]

I just cant believe that this guy is worth a number 1. Especially in this draft. I just hope that the BBT doesnt overbid for the guy. He seems like he has the same attitude Trevor did.
Its very hard to swollow. Getting a third from them would make it look somewhat better but it still sucks.

[baja]

Please outbid us Detroit or Atlanta.


Here we go with So Cal's annual the sky is falling 4000 posts rant.

How'd the Browncos work out

How'd Gold work out

You gonna make a fool out your self again this year ???

[Paladin]

I do not want to see the Broncos give up a 1 for this guy. I think they can do better drafting and being a bit more patient. Pahleeeeze don't do it. Just say no.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Money, we were up against the cap, GM (shanny) thought it wasn't worth it. We had Heyward.......................

Look at least Shanny realized, finally, that the Broncos need a dynamic pass rusher. It took three years, but now he gets it'. Scheme don't mean crap, blitzing the LB and opening the middle don't work. You need talent at the DE. Got Brown playing healthy and making plays. Now get a rocket for the other side and let the big boy's hold the middle.

Agree 100%

[NFLBRONCO]

Can we at least wait til we are on the clock at 29 to decide? We do need a pass rusher though

[SoCalBronco]

Here we go with So Cal's annual the sky is falling 4000 posts rant.

How'd the Browncos work out

Fine. And if you look at my posts at the time, I was happy after the Droughns trade given that the RB market was saturated and no RBs were getting moved. Same for Big Money. Go ahead and use the search option. Same for Brown.

How'd Gold work out

I won this one. Im still waiting for you and the other re-acquisition homers to fess up that you lost. If anything, I should be throwing this in your face, not vice versa.
You gonna make a fool out your self again this year ???

I made a fool out of myself on MoC. I was dead ass wrong. I also underestimated (as most of us did) how well the team would do this year. A very pleasant surprise. But on these other issues I dont believe I was wrong.



In addition to the above, Ive already laid out why I dont think Abraham for a 1 is a good idea. It might be a good idea for you to address those concerns as opposed to simply labelling people who disagree with you as "fools", baja.

[maven]

since when are players worth #1 picks these days? Aside from Randy Moss, no players are traded for #1 picks. Now if the Abraham deal was for a 2nd, then possibly consider a move. Denver finally gets two #1's, and they go & dump them. Why not keep the picks & use both of them on the DL line? Just cannot agree with this move. The two #1's will come with cheap long-term contracts. This is a deep draft & shanny wants to dump picks. Stupid move gambling for this upcoming season. Just because this team was 1 win from the super bowl doesn't mean we add a couple of players & bam we're in it. Brand new season and a brand new year coming up.

[Pezman]

Here we go with So Cal's annual the sky is falling 4000 posts rant.

How'd the Browncos work out

How'd Gold work out

You gonna make a fool out your self again this year ???

I'm manning up and calling it Baja, I was dead wrong about the Browncos line performance last year. However, looking back on games where they played superior o-line's like KC, how the hell did we not get in there and get that QB crunch? Its not the 90% success that they did have, but the 10% failure rate especially at crucial times against the Steelers and Chiefs that make me shake my head. Was it the scheme or the personnel? I say both and that's why I can understand the need to overspend from the staff.

[DBroncos4life]

Can we at least wait til we are on the clock at 29 to decide? We do need a pass rusher though
I think they want to unload the cap number and they might want to try and move up with that pick, kind of hard to do after they pick ;)

I agree though if they would want to wait that would be much, much better.

[maven]

I agree though if they would want to wait that would be much, much better.

Exactly. What is the damn hurry to make a trade?

[Needa Pass Rush]

I can see the logic in using one of our firsts to 'draft' a proven talent like Abraham.

[WABronco]

Money, we were up against the cap, GM (shanny) thought it wasn't worth it. We had Heyward.......................

Look at least Shanny realized, finally, that the Broncos need a dynamic pass rusher. It took three years, but now he gets it'. Scheme don't mean crap, blitzing the LB and opening the middle don't work. You need talent at the DE. Got Brown playing healthy and making plays. Now get a rocket for the other side and let the big boy's hold the middle.

Agree completely. I'd rather have a constant at the RE than a developing rookie. Maybe down the line it'll come back to bite us, but we're not playing for down the line.

[DBroncos4life]

Agree completely. I'd rather have a constant at the RE than a developing rookie. Maybe down the line it'll come back to bite us, but we're not playing for down the line.
Its not like we are a old team though. If we are as old as KC, yeah I can see it but our oldest players are Rod, Lynch and Nalen. Only one of those guys will be hard to replace.
It just seems like Mike doesn't care about the future here because he has plans to leave soon anyways. Thats not cool.

[SoCalBronco]

It just seems like Mike doesn't care about the future here because he has plans to leave soon anyways. Thats not cool.

What?

Where did you get that from, DB?

[DBroncos4life]

What?

Where did you get that from, DB?
Just a feeling I guess. You don't start throwing out the names that we've been hearing about if you are not planning on a quick run.

[Requiem]

I don't like trading a first for Abraham. Maybe a first and a third.

[WABronco]

Its not like we are a old team though. If we are as old as KC, yeah I can see it but our oldest players are Rod, Lynch and Nalen. Only one of those guys will be hard to replace.
It just seems like Mike doesn't care about the future here because he has plans to leave soon anyways. Thats not cool.

What? You think he's gonna leave Denver?

Uhemm, anyways. I think it's more of a matter of him wanting to win now. It's like the oppurtunity is there to be taken, and he wants it now. That's what I've been told anyways...:giggle:

What about Plummer? I think you could make a legit argument that Jake's remaining years of effectiveness correspond with a typical championship window. Of course, that stuff is kind of hard to predict...

[WABronco]

I don't like trading a first for Abraham. Maybe a first and a third.

Oh, even better...:rofl:

[Requiem]

No, no, no. I mean our first for Abraham and their third. ;)

[SoCalBronco]

Just a feeling I guess. You don't start throwing out the names that we've been hearing about if you are not planning on a quick run.

Shanny has always been very aggressive in the offseason trying to get us back to the promised land. I dont think its a "quick run", its just constantly reloading instead of rebuilding. We are actually pretty young as a ball club. Weve got several starters/key contributors in their twenties like Hamilton, Foster, Ash, Tater, KJ, Big Money, Brown, Al, DJ, Ian, D-Will, Foxy, Champ. And we are going to get even younger with a bunch of high picks.

[Requiem]

SoCal, what if we gained an additional pick, say a third rounder?

[HEAV]

Agree completely. I'd rather have a constant at the RE than a developing rookie. Maybe down the line it'll come back to bite us, but we're not playing for down the line.

It's also impossible to say "A solid DE prospect will be their in the 20's" While John Abe. has has a few nicks here and there he has produce on the field. With the Denver track record of drafting DE in the past, I'd prefer getting a know commodity. Unless you have a top five selection can you say "We have a shot at getting a solid pass rushing DE"

Not to mention that Shanny has tried in the past to move up and get DE/Pass rushing LB's. Deals just bottomed out.

Plus I have faith in the Broncos strength and conditioning program. They worked Brown,Warren into shape. Not to mention the Broncos players are relatively healthy year in year out. That's condition.

As far as Abe's tude. Al Wilson, Champ, Lynch. Team leaders will control the huddle.

Here's how I look at it. It's 2006 or bust. Either we go all out or we are jsut one of those other teams in the league.

[SoCalBronco]

SoCal, what if we gained an additional pick, say a third rounder?

It would lessen the blow, as the overall value we would be giving up would be something like a mid-second, but I still would not do it. He going to be 28 this year. He's often injured. He doesnt have a Bronco like attitude. He'll require a large salary and bonus. We can get Hali or Kiwi in Round 1 at 22, almost guaranteed one of them will be there. 5/6 mill bonus vs. 12-15 mil bonus, plus younger with upside.

[DBroncos4life]

When is the last time Denver drafted a DE in the first round anyways? The only guy close that I remember is Hayward.

[NFLBRONCO]

When is the last time Denver drafted a DE in the first round anyways? The only guy close that I remember is Hayward.


1 11th pick Dan Williams DE Toledo 1993 draft

[DBroncos4life]

1 11 11 Dan Williams DE Toledo
Im pretty sure he was really a DT though.

[DBroncos4life]

He's listed as a DT from the last team he was on, the Chiefs. He could have been a 'tweener though.

[Kaylore]

I keep going back and forth on this. I'm not sure what to think. We need a rush end - one who will get sacks, not just push the o-linemen around. It's an area that if upgraded could take us over the top.

For all my concerns about John Abraham, he did get 10 sacks last season and usually averages around nine. You can't dress those kinds of numbers up.

We can make a run at the Super Bowl this year and we need help in our pass rush NOW. Even a top five pick likely wouldn't perform the way we need to right away, let alone whatever is there at number 29. Aside from the fact that the pick might be a bust anyway. Abraham, for all his faults, is a proven commodity.

Nonetheless, I still get rubbed the wrong way when I think of the deal going down. I have images of us at the AFC championship game at Indy. We're up 14-20 with thirteen seconds on the clock left. We have a chance to win. It's fourth down and the Colts have the ball on their fifty. Suddenly John looks at the coaches and says "my knee feews weewy bad." He then sits down and eats a popsicle while Reggie Wayne runs into the endzone for six.

I don't know. I guess I'll just do what I did last season: Trust in Shanahan.

[WABronco]

No, no, no. I mean our first for Abraham and their third. ;)

I know pal, I'm just playin'...

[Taco John]

I sure wouldn't have a problem trading a first for Abraham. A first rounder is just as apt to go bust as turn into a superstar. At least with Abraham we know we're getting the real deal.

[Play2win]

All I know is we are going to have some serious SUDDENESS all around the football field...

Champ, Ian, Wilson, DWill, and now Abraham...

We are going to be on that pigskin like SHARKS ON STEAK...

[-Slap-]

joy, Ive always wanted to know what it would be like to have two first rounders. Someday.
Yeah, just not in the deepest draft in the last decade.

[SimonFletcher73]

pick a de and have a decent amount of cap money that we wouldn't have if we got abraham

we could easily afford archuletta and the cap hit of one first rounder (or both) for the cap hit of abraham

[yavoon]

pick a de and have a decent amount of cap money that we wouldn't have if we got abraham

hell, we could probably afford archuletta and a 1st rounder for the price of abraham

I dont see whats so great about archuletta. I mean i love him in 2k5 dont get me wrong. but he can't really cover, he whiffs on an alarming amt of open field tackles. he's basically a linebacker forced to play safety.

[SimonFletcher73]

I don't like him that much either, but he's an upgrade to what we have. The same can be said for Abraham, but the cap hit ALONG with giving up that first rounder is way too much.

[Popps]

Yea... hey Shanny, please don't send the 29th pick in the draft away for a guy who can actually rush the QB. Keep it so we can draft a question mark and maybe see results in three years.

We've been perfectly happy without a pass-rush for 8 years... let's not do anything drastic.

[BroncoBuff]

Please outbid us Detroit or Atlanta.
Please outbid us ANYBODY!

[BroncoBuff]

I dont see whats so great about archuletta. I mean i love him in 2k5 dont get me wrong. but he can't really cover, he whiffs on an alarming amt of open field tackles. he's basically a linebacker forced to play safety.
Forget Archuleta. I say we: sign TO, Warren and Putzier .... and then trade both first-rounders (and another if necc.) for Michael Huff.

[NFLBRONCO]

To land Abraham, the Broncos would first have to satisfy the Jets with a trade and then satisfy the premier pass rusher with some creative financing. The trade may be the easier of the two because the Broncos have two first-round draft picks to dangle.

The money could be a tougher challenge. As a franchise player, Abraham already is guaranteed a one-year, $8.3 million deal.

[TheManeMan]

Yea... hey Shanny, please don't send the 29th pick in the draft away for a guy who can actually rush the QB. Keep it so we can draft a question mark and maybe see results in three years.

We've been perfectly happy without a pass-rush for 8 years... let's not do anything drastic.

:notworthy

[24champ]

All I know is we are going to have some serious SUDDENESS all around the football field...

Champ, Ian, Wilson, DWill, and now Abraham...

We are going to be on that pigskin like SHARKS ON STEAK...
I agree completely, we will actually have someone that CAN sack a QB. Im not worried about the 29th pick being shipped off for him. Imagine if we get Bunkley with the 22nd pick. At this point who needs an offense?;D

[chrisp]

I've heard that insiders are saying that this year the late-firsts are all really going to be second-round talent - I know you always hear something similar every year, but it has to be said that the Broncos will have done their homework and if they aren't optimistic of getting a player they like with either of those firsts then they will be more than happy to trade.

Some people on this board are talking like any first round pick is a guaranteed pro-bowler, when in fact, even if you pick in the top-ten its never a slam-dunk.

Abraham may not be Dwight Freeney but he will come in and immediately add to our pass rush - a clear weakness last year. He's consistent, just look at his sack totals over the years. He's also come back from an injury and NOT had a sub-par year (unlike other DEs now on the market....)

[elsid13]

God, Supposely the Redskins are willing to trade thier 2nd and Ramsey for Abraham. I hope that happens. I want Carter on FA and the two 1st to provide long term greatness to this team.

[broncohaven]

Maybe Tatum could be involved in the trade. I would rather ship Tatum than one of the 1st rounders, and the Jets are desperate at RB.

I just hope someone is willing to give up something rediculous to get us out of the running.

[Elway777]

The only question is how much will Abraham want and what will the signing bonus be. Abraham is definantly worth the 29 pick but how much would it cost the Broncos to sign Abraham. The Broncos could offer Abraham about 6 years 48 million with 12 million signing bonus and hope to get about 3 or 4 good year out of him. Trading for Greg Ellis or signing Howard or Carter could be backup plan for Broncos if Abraham wants to much.

[baja]

In addition to the above, I've already laid out why I dont think Abraham for a 1 is a good idea. It might be a good idea for you to address those concerns as opposed to simply labelling people who disagree with you as "fools", baja.

If you say that you was not one of the constant complainers about the "plan" than I will take you word for it So Cal. I confess my memory is not what it used to be and if I have falsely accused you than I truly apologize. I just remember the sky is falling attitude that prevailed on this board all last off season and I see the beginnings of the same this off season. Shanahan / Sundquist have shown that might know a thing or two about putting a team together is what I see.

I personally don't care for the idea of bringing in Abraham because of the rumor that he could have played and didn't in the Jets playoff game but he claims he risked serious injury if he did. I also don't like the idea of giving up a number one in this years draft but I suspect Shanny feels he is a player or two (receiver) away so in Shanny I trust.

Again sorry if I falsely accused you. ;D

[-Slap-]

To land Abraham, the Broncos would first have to satisfy the Jets with a trade and then satisfy the premier pass rusher with some creative financing. The trade may be the easier of the two because the Broncos have two first-round draft picks to dangle.

The money could be a tougher challenge. As a franchise player, Abraham already is guaranteed a one-year, $8.3 million deal.
Guaranteed $8.3 million. Man, I can see why this ****** only plays when he feels like it. The Jets are really ****ing him around.

[elsid13]

Well

KFFL posted Atl is no longer interested in Abraham.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Guaranteed $8.3 million. Man, I can see why this ****** only plays when he feels like it. The Jets are really ****ing him around.

:) It's the new NFL, if you're in your last year and don't like your team, don't take a chance of getting hurt and risk losing everything.

[BroncoInferno]

I just cant believe that this guy is worth a number 1. Especially in this draft. I just hope that the BBT doesnt overbid for the guy. He seems like he has the same attitude Trevor did.

Why wouldn't a guy who always gets 10-12 sacks and 4-5 forced fumbles be worth the 29th overall pick? If you keep the pick, the odds are the guy you select there will not be as productive.

[BroncoInferno]

To add to the above, the rumors of the Jets getting a 1st is speculation. Who knows if the rumored compensation is substantive or just a guess.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

:) It's the new NFL, if you're in your last year and don't like your team, don't take a chance of getting hurt and risk losing everything.

Maybe you are right but I hope not. It impacts the integrity of the game.

[Orange_Beard]

This guy is clearly worth a late #1.

[-Slap-]

Why wouldn't a guy who always gets 10-12 sacks and 4-5 forced fumbles be worth the 29th overall pick? If you keep the pick, the odds are the guy you select there will not be as productive.
Why not sign Darren Howard as a free agent? He's virtually the same guy, but he'll be cheaper and he won't cost the premium draft pick.

Abraham doesn't get 4-5 forced fumbles a year, either. This year he forced a bunch, but in the previous three seasons, he forced a total of five. It can be a flukey stat anyway. Engleberger forced a bunch of forced fumbles, too. He had little impact this year.

[baja]

Why wouldn't a guy who always gets 10-12 sacks and 4-5 forced fumbles be worth the 29th overall pick? If you keep the pick, the odds are the guy you select there will not be as productive.

If JA is 'all that' why would the Jets unload him so cheap?

[baja]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is we now we have Dinger giving input and he saw JA up front and close so maybe he haas Shanny's ear on this

[-Slap-]

Well

KFFL posted Atl is no longer interested in Abraham.
****

[elsid13]

Why not sign Darren Howard as a free agent? He's virtually the same guy, but he'll be cheaper and he won't cost the premium draft pick.


OR Carter. The last couple of guys Shanahan has tried to find those guys in FA that about to be good/great and won't command a very high price. The only expectation are when you have truly HOF potential player like Champ which came in trade. Beside one again the Broncos try to keep their operation secret until the last moment, and everyone is talking about this. I think it is a smokescreen

[ND Bronco Fan]

Is anyone really sure that we would have to give up #29 in this trade? I have not seen anything but speculation so maybe hold out some hope?

[BroncoInferno]

Why not sign Darren Howard as a free agent? He's virtually the same guy.

Not hardly.

Darren Howard:

2000 NOR 16 52 37 15 7 11 1 0 1 46 0
2001 NOR 16 54 37 17 4 6 3 0 1 37 0
2002 NOR 16 48 35 13 3 8 3 0 0 0 0
2003 NOR 8 29 27 2 4 5 0 0 0 0 0
2004 NOR 13 46 38 8 1 11 4 0 0 0 0
2005 NOR 12 33 24 9 2 4 2 -2 0 0 0

John Abraham:

2000 NYJ 6 12 8 4 0 5 2 0 0 0 0
2001 NYJ 16 67 57 10 0 13 6 0 0 0 0
2002 NYJ 16 61 49 12 2 10 1 0 0 0 0
2003 NYJ 7 32 25 7 0 6 1 0 0 0 0
2004 NYJ 12 49 35 14 2 10 3 0 0 0 0
2005 NYJ 16 58 44 14 2 11 6 0 0 0 0

Abraham has been much more consistent throughout his career. The only two seasons he did not have at least 10 sacks he played only 6 and 7 games.

[Rohirrim]

If you're playing the averages, the Abraham deal makes sense. You want to get to the next level (SB) this year while you've still got your core team together. You're not going to get Mario, so the rest of the DEs in the draft are a crap shoot. Even if you did get Mario, what's he going to do his first year? You need immediate impact. You have two number ones. On the other hand, you've got to talk to Abraham and get a good feel for where he's coming from. You're offering him a chance to go for a ring. Does he want to play ball and hold up a Lombardi, or just cash out and pull an IHOP? BTW, the leadership on the Broncos won't make a damn bit of difference on a vet like Abraham. It sure as hell didn't for that benchturd IHOP. He's got to want it. It's a gamble, any way you look at it. But a smart gamble. I'm in.

[ND Bronco Fan]

I can agree with everything you say except the fact that I am still concerned with fire power on our offense.

[Rascal]

It would lessen the blow, as the overall value we would be giving up would be something like a mid-second, but I still would not do it. He going to be 28 this year. He's often injured. He doesnt have a Bronco like attitude. He'll require a large salary and bonus. We can get Hali or Kiwi in Round 1 at 22, almost guaranteed one of them will be there. 5/6 mill bonus vs. 12-15 mil bonus, plus younger with upside.

But Abraham is a known commodity...they aren't. They could end up being a Tovessi (sp?) for all we know and we'd be exactly the same spot we are right now.

[-Slap-]

Not hardly.

Darren Howard:

2000 NOR 16 52 37 15 7 11 1 0 1 46 0
2001 NOR 16 54 37 17 4 6 3 0 1 37 0
2002 NOR 16 48 35 13 3 8 3 0 0 0 0
2003 NOR 8 29 27 2 4 5 0 0 0 0 0
2004 NOR 13 46 38 8 1 11 4 0 0 0 0
2005 NOR 12 33 24 9 2 4 2 -2 0 0 0

John Abraham:

2000 NYJ 6 12 8 4 0 5 2 0 0 0 0
2001 NYJ 16 67 57 10 0 13 6 0 0 0 0
2002 NYJ 16 61 49 12 2 10 1 0 0 0 0
2003 NYJ 7 32 25 7 0 6 1 0 0 0 0
2004 NYJ 12 49 35 14 2 10 3 0 0 0 0
2005 NYJ 16 58 44 14 2 11 6 0 0 0 0

Abraham has been much more consistent throughout his career. The only two seasons he did not have at least 10 sacks he played only 6 and 7 games.
Great. Let's drop $60 million on him, so he can tell us to **** off during a playoff run.

[Jason in LA]

I thought this was a done deal...according to PFT.

[-Slap-]

But Abraham is a known commodity...they aren't. They could end up being a Tovessi (sp?) for all we know and we'd be exactly the same spot we are right now.
He's a known commodity alright. Ever wonder why the Jets have been trying to move his ass for the last three years?

[Rohirrim]

I can agree with everything you say except the fact that I am still concerned with fire power on our offense.

I imagine the only way the Broncos pull the string on this deal is if they can work out a contract with Abraham them leaves them cap room to go after more talent in FA (RB?). I really doubt that Shanahan would bet the whole bank on one player, no matter who it is. Plus, he could use the #22 pick on Marcedes. That would upgrade the red zone offense pretty quick.

[brncs_fan]

22 + 29 = 5 (Mario Williams)

[baja]

He's a known commodity alright. Ever wonder why the Jets have been trying to move his ass for the last three years?

The thing that intrigues me is Dinger has watched him up close for three years now and he has had to signed off on him with Shanny so to me that is the best indication that JA has gotten some bad press but who knows.

[Traveler]

For those Andre Carter supporters:


Redskins | Team interested in Carter
Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:54:17 -0800

Jason La Canfora, of the Washington Post, reports two league sources indicated the Washington Redskins are interested in free agent LB/DE Andre Carter (49ers). Carter is an unrestricted free agent and has played linebacker in a 3-4 system, which Washington employs in certain situations.

[Play2win]

I imagine the only way the Broncos pull the string on this deal is if they can work out a contract with Abraham them leaves them cap room to go after more talent in FA (RB?). I really doubt that Shanahan would bet the whole bank on one player, no matter who it is. Plus, he could use the #22 pick on Marcedes. That would upgrade the red zone offense pretty quick.


POPE would be better, especially for that purpose...

[Rascal]

He's a known commodity alright. Ever wonder why the Jets have been trying to move his ass for the last three years?

If he was such a bad player and overrated you would think that Hermdinger would say something about it.

I'm thinking it's similar to the Browncos situation.

[Rascal]

For those Andre Carter supporters:


Redskins | Team interested in Carter
Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:54:17 -0800

Jason La Canfora, of the Washington Post, reports two league sources indicated the Washington Redskins are interested in free agent LB/DE Andre Carter (49ers). Carter is an unrestricted free agent and has played linebacker in a 3-4 system, which Washington employs in certain situations.

They are going to pay mega bucks for a LB/DE they would use in certain situations?

They are a bunch of idiots.

[-Slap-]

If he was such a bad player and overrated you would think that Hermdinger would say something about it.

I'm thinking it's similar to the Browncos situation.
Except this guy will cost more than all four Browncos, Engelberger and whatever defensive linemen we draft put together. Plus a first round pick just to negotiate with him.

The Browncos cost us Droughns and a fourth rounder.

And WTF does Heimerdinger care about the Broncos long term? He's using this job as a stepping stone, so short term success is in his best interests. Abraham is already 29 years old and he's already had health and motivation issues.

[Rohirrim]

POPE would be better, especially for that purpose...

They're probably close to equal in talent, but Pope's a junior and needs to learn a lot more to make an impact. Marcedes would make more of an immediate impact (plus he's smarter than Pope). Also, Pope is more the stereotypical TE, where Marcedes could be used in a lot more ways, especially in the RZ - slot, WR, etc.

[bendog]

I just cannot see the one pick for this guy, not even the second one pick. Jests are trying to clear cap room AND move an unhappy guy who is close to 30 years old. Plus, Den could most likely move up enough to get the 3rd DE of the draft and still keep their second first rounder. Or shoot the moon, and use both picks to try and get Ngata.

[Rascal]

Except this guy will cost more than all four Browncos, Engelberger and whatever defensive linemen we draft put together. Plus a first round pick just to negotiate with him.

The Browncos cost us Droughns and a fourth rounder.

And WTF does Heimerdinger care about the Broncos long term? He's using this job as a stepping stone, so short term success is in his best interests. Abraham is already 29 years old and he's already had health and motivation issues.

And Hermdinger wouldn't have more appeal to make us a SB team if that is the case? He would have more value if he was the OC of a SB team...true?

If Abraham puts us over the top then that's fine by me.

[baja]

Except this guy will cost more than all four Browncos, Engelberger and whatever defensive linemen we draft put together. Plus a first round pick just to negotiate with him.

The Browncos cost us Droughns and a fourth rounder.

<b>And WTF does Heimerdinger care about the Broncos long term? He's using this job as a stepping stone, so short term success is in his best interests.</b> Abraham is already 29 years old and he's already had health and motivation issues.

Now that is just nuts Slap. he is a life long friend of Shanahan's do you really think he would play him like this for some personal gain. How many of your life long friends would treat you this way?

[BroncoInferno]

Except this guy will cost more than all four Browncos, Engelberger and whatever defensive linemen we draft put together. Plus a first round pick just to negotiate with him.

The Browncos cost us Droughns and a fourth rounder.

And WTF does Heimerdinger care about the Broncos long term? He's using this job as a stepping stone, so short term success is in his best interests. Abraham is already 29 years old and he's already had health and motivation issues.

He's 27 and has really only had two injury plagued years. His other four seasonms he has had at least 10 sacks. He is one of the more consistent pass rushers in the league and, whether you like him or not, will make this team better. That is a fact.

[fontaine]

I really hope we go after Carter!

He's more of a team player than Abraham and that counts for everything in my book.

We won't have to give up a 1st round pick for him either which we would for Abraham so we could sign Carter for cheaper AND keep our first round pick to use on a DE!

It's a no brainer.

I may be wrong but I think Howard is a power DE and we already have Brown in that role so I would rather go for Carter who's more of a prototype speed end and has the heart and motor to be a big time player here alongside Brown/Warren.

Abraham is a just a merc looking for a payday.

[-Slap-]

I love how so many people are against adding a 22 year old defensive end for reasonable money. Instead they want to blow the cap on an undersized, overaged, injury prone malcontent.

"Oh, no! We can't draft a defensive lineman! What if he busts?"

What if all those cornerbacks we drafted last year would have busted? They didn't, though, did they? Maybe we should have traded all those picks for Ty Law and paid him a fortune instead.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I thought this was a done deal...according to PFT.

The dorm room said it was a done deal. His latest update was an analysis of an online mock draft he found that had Reggie Bush slipping to #4 and what a fantastic draft it was. He then went on about how great of a player Bush is and how great he'd be with the Jets.

[baja]

I really hope we go after Carter!

He's more of a team player than Abraham and that counts for everything in my book.

We won't have to give up a 1st round pick for him either which we would for Abraham so we could sign Carter for cheaper AND keep our first round pick to use on a DE!

It's a no brainer.

I may be wrong but I think Howard is a power DE and we already have Brown in that role so I would rather go for Carter who's more of a prototype speed end and has the heart and motor to be a big time player here alongside Brown/Warren.

Abraham is a just a merc looking for a payday.


ya Carter is a guy I have wanted ever since he came into the league

[-Slap-]

And Hermdinger wouldn't have more appeal to make us a SB team if that is the case? He would have more value if he was the OC of a SB team...true?

If Abraham puts us over the top then that's fine by me.
Abraham isn't going to put us anywhere except up our cap limit. What did the Jets win with him? They're under .500 during John Abraham's career. By the way, Abraham had more talent around him on that Jets defensive line than we have in Denver right now. That's something else nobody is considering.

[Rascal]

I love how so many people are against adding a 22 year old defensive end for reasonable money. Instead they want to blow the cap on an undersized, overaged, injury prone malcontent.

"Oh, no! We can't draft a defensive lineman! What if he busts?"

What if all those cornerbacks we drafted last year would have busted? They didn't, though, did they? Maybe we should have traded all those picks for Ty Law and paid him a fortune instead.

What if the DE we draft ends up being a Tovessi?

[BroncoInferno]

I love how so many people are against adding a 22 year old defensive end for reasonable money. Instead they want to blow the cap on an undersized, overaged, injury prone malcontent.

"Oh, no! We can't draft a defensive lineman! What if he busts?"

What if all those cornerbacks we drafted last year would have busted? They didn't, though, did they? Maybe we should have traded all those picks for Ty Law and paid him a fortune instead.

No one is against that, the question is would you rather add a known commodity who you know for a fact will improve an area of need, or would you rather take your chances with the youngster? To me, we've got a short window of opportunity to get a championship, and so you go with the guy who you know will help you right away.

[Rascal]

Abraham isn't going to put us anywhere except up our cap limit. What did the Jets win with him? They're under .500 during John Abraham's career. By the way, Abraham had more talent around him on that Jets defensive line than we have in Denver right now. That's something else nobody is considering.

Where did champ get the redskins?

That's a valid point.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

What if the DE we draft ends up being a Tovessi?

and what if he's a Peppers?

Busts will always happen, teams can't sit there and be afraid of drafting players because they're afraid of drafting a bust.

[SpringStein]

Abraham - 27 or 29 years old?

Technically 27, but he turns 28 in May. So let's use the 28 years old (his age for the 2006 season)as the age in arguments. ;)

[Rascal]

and what if he's a Peppers?

Busts will always happen, teams can't sit there and be afraid of drafting players because they're afraid of drafting a bust.

I know that. But I'd rather take a known commodity over a guy who nobody knows what they will be like.

And none of the guys that we will get at 22 or 29 will be Peppers. If you want a pepper we need to trade up and get mario.

[fontaine]

No one is against that, the question is would you rather add a known commodity who you know for a fact will improve an area of need, or would you rather take your chances with the youngster? To me, we've got a short window of opportunity to get a championship, and so you go with the guy who you know will help you right away.


Why not do both and add Andre Carter + First round pick.

My only contention with Abraham is that his price is bloated by a weak FA class and the Jets asking price for a 1st round pick in exchange (plus he slacked off last year).

What would you add?

Carter + first round pick.

Or just Abraham?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Strahan looks to have had a successful career and he was taken in the 2nd round.

[BroncoInferno]

and what if he's a Peppers?

Busts will always happen, teams can't sit there and be afraid of drafting players because they're afraid of drafting a bust.

Sure, you can't be afraid...if we keep the pick, by all means roll the dice. But why roll the dice when you don't have to? Abraham will give us a guarenteed pass rush improvement.

[halfcreek]

Could Abraham, playing hard, have changed the outcome of the Pitt game?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Sure, you can't be afraid...if we keep the pick, by all means roll the dice. But why roll the dice when you don't have to? Abraham will give us a guarenteed pass rush improvement.

and eat up a good chunk of cap room.

Abraham or 1st round pick + extra cap room to fill other needs?

[brncs_fan]

From NFL.com:

Defensive Linemen

Since 2000 (six years), 306 defensive linemen have been drafted (51 per year averages with a high of 62 in 2004. This gives you an idea how important teams consider this position. In 2005, we had eight drafted in the first round that played the position in college. The most drafted in Round 1 over this period was 11 in 2003.

There seems to be both quality and depth at this position. For this draft, two players -- Mario Williams (North Carolina State) and Haloti Ngata (Oregon) -- could both be picked in the top 12.

Florida State's Broderick Bunkley, Oklahoma's Dusty Dvoracek, Boston College's Mathias Kiwanuka, Virginia Tech's Darryl Tapp, Michigan's Gabe Watson, Louisiana State's Kyle Williams, Florida State's Kamerion Wimbley, and Texas' Rodrique Wright all worked out well.

-Gil Brandt

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9286579

[BroncoInferno]

Why not do both and add Andre Carter + First round pick.

My only contention with Abraham is that his price is bloated by a weak FA class and the Jets asking price for a 1st round pick in exchange (plus he slacked off last year).

What would you add?

Carter + first round pick.

Or just Abraham?

I like your senario, the problem is when you are dealing with FA it isn't so easy to say 'let's sign player X, easy as pie'. You have to compete with other teams. You aren't guarenteed to land player X. What if Carter signs elsewhere? Whose left on the market? And, at any rate, Carter hasn't had a really good season for a couple of years. In terms of what sort of prodfuction you'll get, he's much dicery than Abraham.

[brncs_fan]

Could Abraham, playing hard, have changed the outcome of the Pitt game?
Would take more then one person. That was appearant in Plummer as he was the only one that seemed to show up for that game.

[Rascal]

Strahan looks to have had a successful career and he was taken in the 2nd round.

We want an immediate impact player. Strahan didn't do anything till his third year (hell you could argue his fifth year).

[bendog]

and what if he's a Peppers?

Busts will always happen, teams can't sit there and be afraid of drafting players because they're afraid of drafting a bust.
Most likely, Den could get Mathias Kiwanuka with their first, one of the TE's - Byrd lewis or Pope - with the second, package whatever it takes to move up in the second rd to get another DE like Dumerville AND STILL have enough picks to take shots at RB, WR, OL, and MAYBE have the gash to sign a TO. And, if they did sign TO, we wouldn't need to sign a TE cause they'd be running a 3wr set a good bit of the time, and while he's a cancer, he cures the red zone issue. And, then, they could go dline with both no1 picks.

[meangene]

Abraham has never been in any legal trouble or substance abuse situations that I know of. He's frustrated with being francise tagged year after year and never getting a long term deal. When healthy, he is one of the best pure pass rushers in the league. He has had some dings but nothing serious or chronic. At #29, there are not going to be any sure things at DE. Unless we can package up for Mario, I think this is a good option for us IF we can sign him to a long term deal that still leaves us with cap room. We would still have #22 and would have adressed our most pressing need. I'm on board with this deal.

[baja]

Strahan looks to have had a successful career and he was taken in the 2nd round.

Ya but for every Strahan there are 20 Tossimesalads

[fontaine]

I like your senario, the problem is when you are dealing with FA it isn't so easy to say 'let's sign player X, easy as pie'. You have to compete with other teams. You aren't guarenteed to land player X. What if Carter signs elsewhere? Whose left on the market? And, at any rate, Carter hasn't had a really good season for a couple of years. In terms of what sort of prodfuction you'll get, he's much dicery than Abraham.

If we have the money to sign Abraham then we sure as hell have the money to sign Carter.

As far as Carter's production goes. He was moved to a 3-4 role which he wasn't suited to and had minimal talent alongside to help him in a team that has stunk that past three/fours years.

Sure Carter is a gamble. But so is Abraham.

I just like the fact that we don't have to throw in a first round pick who could turn out to be our next Trevor Pryce in the mix for the Abraham scenario. Too rich for my blood.

[BroncoInferno]

and eat up a good chunk of cap room.

Abraham or 1st round pick + extra cap room to fill other needs?

I don't think we have a lot of pressing needs, for one thing. The two biggest are pass rusher and WR. We should have enough cap room to get both based on current cap projections. Then use our 1st on a TE (Pope or Lewis), get a safety in the 2nd, and OL depth in the 3rd. We're good to go.

[Atlas]

Half of the first round picks don't live up to billing. If Warren signs and with Brown and Ecuban on the otherside Abe is a 14 to 18 sack a year guy in Denver, he is a playmaker........ He is a game changer.

Adding Abe will mean the Broncos will get a steady consistent pass rush without having to blitz. The big problem with blitzing is that the QB sees it coming and calls an audible that is why Denver didn't have very many sacks last year because they blitzed all the time.

If Denver trades for Abe they will have the pass rush without blitzing thus they can drop more people and rush only 4. This in turn will give Denver more sacks and more Ints. due to the fact that they are getting pressure and dropping 7 into the passing lanes.

Trading for Abe will be the biggest improvement Denver can make this offseason.

[Rascal]

Half of the first round picks don't live up to billing. If Warren signs and with Brown and Ecuban on the otherside Abe is a 14 to 18 sack a year guy in Denver........ He is a game changer.

Adding Abe will mean the Broncos will get a steady consistent pass rush without having to blitz. The big problem with blitzing is that the QB sees it coming and calls an audible that is why Denver didn't have very many sacks last year because they blitzed all the time.

If Denver trades for Abe they will have the pass rush without blitzing thus they can drop more people and rush only 4. This in turn will give Denver more sacks and more Ints. due to the fact that they are getting pressure and dropping 7 into the passing lanes.

Trading for Abe will be the biggest improvement Denver can make this offseason.

I'd agree with that except the part about increasing the number of INT's.

[halfcreek]

Would take more then one person. That was appearant in Plummer as he was the only one that seemed to show up for that game.
True, but a key play (Champ making that pick) a sack or two early on could have slowed down the Pitt O and lit a fire under the team.

I have reservations about Kiwinuka, even though my next door neighbors, from Uganda, are named Kiwinuka.

[Atlas]

The thing that intrigues me is Dinger has watched him up close for three years now and he has had to signed off on him with Shanny so to me that is the best indication that JA has gotten some bad press but who knows.

excellent point

[Atlas]

I'd agree with that except the part about increasing the number of INT's.

If you can create pressure with just rushing 4 guys and then you drop 7. You will get more ints than if you blitz all the time.

I think last years picks were an aberration. Champ will never get as many picks as he did last year. Teams thought he was vulnerable and went after him. This coming year he will be back to his usual 3 or 4 picks.

[rbackfactory80]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by baja fan
The thing that intrigues me is Dinger has watched him up close for three years now and he has had to signed off on him with Shanny so to me that is the best indication that JA has gotten some bad press but who knows.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Not to mention that herm wanted to bring him to K.C.

[WpgBronco]

Half of the first round picks don't live up to billing. If Warren signs and with Brown and Ecuban on the otherside Abe is a 14 to 18 sack a year guy in Denver, he is a playmaker........ He is a game changer.

Adding Abe will mean the Broncos will get a steady consistent pass rush without having to blitz. The big problem with blitzing is that the QB sees it coming and calls an audible that is why Denver didn't have very many sacks last year because they blitzed all the time.

If Denver trades for Abe they will have the pass rush without blitzing thus they can drop more people and rush only 4. This in turn will give Denver more sacks and more Ints. due to the fact that they are getting pressure and dropping 7 into the passing lanes.

Trading for Abe will be the biggest improvement Denver can make this offseason.

Excellent take on the subject, let's get #94 in here, pull the trigger!!!!!!

[Rascal]

If you can create pressure with just rushing 4 guys and then you drop 7. You will get more ints than if you blitz all the time.

I think last years picks were an aberration. Champ will never get as many picks as he did last year. Teams thought he was vulnerable and went after him. This coming year he will be back to his usual 3 or 4 picks.

hence the reason why I don't think we will have a significant number of more INT's next year even if we have a pass rush.

[Traveler]

I would be ecstatic to get Abe. But is there a realistic way he can be obtained by giving up our 2nd & 4 rounder? Or our 2nd and a player? I like to retain both out 1st rounders if possible.

[Rascal]

I would be ecstatic to get Abe. But is there a realistic way he can be obtained by giving up our 2nd & 4 rounder? Or our 2nd and a player? I like to retain both out 1st rounders if possible.

that would be ideal but I honestly don't know as our second isn't very valuable (almost a third to them). I guess time will tell.

[Popps]

All kidding aside, can someone tell me when ****ing free agency starts!?

[rbackfactory80]

1201 2nite east coast

[-Slap-]

No one is against that, the question is would you rather add a known commodity who you know for a fact will improve an area of need, or would you rather take your chances with the youngster? To me, we've got a short window of opportunity to get a championship, and so you go with the guy who you know will help you right away.
What is this short window of opportunity to win a championship crap?

Bronco fans always want to believe the team is one player away. Believe me, this current squad is not so special that we'll never see their likes again.

Shanahan always fields a competitive squad and there are no remotely dominant teams in the NFL. You're endorsing a panic move.

[-Slap-]

What if the DE we draft ends up being a Tovessi?
What if Abraham goes to take a piss and he drops his weinus down the toilet?

**** happens.

[DBroncos4life]

I could live with it easier if we are getting a third with it. Hell I would really welcome the move if we could swap second rounders with them along with that first we are giving them, but I might be asking for too much. Like Kaylore Im pretty torn on this.

[bendog]

What is this short window of opportunity to win a championship crap?

Bronco fans always want to believe the team is one player away. Believe me, this current squad is not so special that we'll never see their likes again.

Shanahan always fields a competitive squad and there are no remotely dominant teams in the NFL. You're endorsing a panic move.
That's what I don't get. With the top 3 picks, esp. if shanny moved up into the upper middle of the second round, Den could get two DE and one TE prospect. Odds are two would be at least competent starters. And most likely there'd be one "pleasant surprise" as was Pryce, and one competent starter. With Abraham the best upside is 3 years of fading performance.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like Abraham for cheap, but the price is too high. Sure, he'd have more impact in his first and maybe second year than a rook, but ..... Crap, forget TO, sign Maginist for a two year deal, and draft kids.

[-Slap-]

Half of the first round picks don't live up to billing. If Warren signs and with Brown and Ecuban on the otherside Abe is a 14 to 18 sack a year guy in Denver, he is a playmaker........ He is a game changer.

Adding Abe will mean the Broncos will get a steady consistent pass rush without having to blitz. The big problem with blitzing is that the QB sees it coming and calls an audible that is why Denver didn't have very many sacks last year because they blitzed all the time.

If Denver trades for Abe they will have the pass rush without blitzing thus they can drop more people and rush only 4. This in turn will give Denver more sacks and more Ints. due to the fact that they are getting pressure and dropping 7 into the passing lanes.

Trading for Abe will be the biggest improvement Denver can make this offseason.

If he's such a game changer, how come New York has never won jack**** with him? 10-6 is the best record they've ever mustered with John Abraham in the lineup. I thought the guy was worth several wins a year all by himself.

[Paladin]

Against what competition did he amass his "impressive" sack totals? I am still opposed to this trade unless it was real, real cheap. I would not like to see the Broncso giving up anything more than a third for the fellow. It seems to me that the draft offers many more inticeing alternatives and the Broncos ought to go with them, see what develops. If the Jests cut him, then maybe they could talk with him, but to give the Jests anything for him is dumb, IMO.

[-Slap-]

Howard, Carter or McGinest would all be better moves.

[Requiem]

Why don't we just persue a guy like Kalimba Edwards in free agency? He could probably give us 6-8 sacks a year in our rotation. Without having to give up a first rounder.

[Taco John]

What if Abraham goes to take a piss and he drops his weinus down the toilet?

**** happens.



Holy shiat! It's a high stakes game taking a leak in New York.

No wonder he wants out.

[Rascal]

Howard, Carter or McGinest would all be better moves.

eh...I'd pass on Howard. He is basically a Pryce clone and we already have a DE on the strong side in Brown/Ekuban.

I'd take McGinest or Carter though.

[Taco John]

If he's such a game changer, how come New York has never won jack**** with him? 10-6 is the best record they've ever mustered with John Abraham in the lineup. I thought the guy was worth several wins a year all by himself.



In fairness... Herm Edwards was their coach. Great personality. Terrible game manager.

[DBroncos4life]

Why don't we just persue a guy like Kalimba Edwards in free agency? He could probably give us 6-8 sacks a year in our rotation. Without having to give up a first rounder.
I said the samething but wabronco told me that Matt Millien wanted Abe as a up grade over Edwards. Then I told him that he split time with some other DE and still had 7 sacks. He sounds like the type of guy we need.

[Requiem]

Why don't we just persue a guy like Kalimba Edwards in free agency? He could probably give us 6-8 sacks a year in our rotation. Without having to give up a first rounder.

Any thoughts on going after him?

[Requiem]

I said the samething but wabronco told me that Matt Millien wanted Abe as a up grade over Edwards. Then I told him that he split time with some other DE and still had 7 sacks. He sounds like the type of guy we need.

Thanks for responding. Yeah, he split time with James Hall. I think he'd be a good fit. We already rotate our lineman a lot, and I think he and Engleberger could be good at the rush end spot. Maybe this would lessen the need for us to draft a guy in the first.

[DBroncos4life]

Thanks for responding. Yeah, he split time with James Hall. I think he'd be a good fit. We already rotate our lineman a lot, and I think he and Engleberger could be good at the rush end spot. Maybe this would lessen the need for us to draft a guy in the first.
Those two ends had 90 plus tackles, 13 sacks and 5 ff, and Matt wants to trade a top ten pick for Abe! That guy is something else

[Rascal]

I'd take Edwards but I think Engleberger is marginal at best.

Bring on edwards if we decide to draft one as a safety margin should they be a bust.

[Requiem]

I think Engleberger is an average starter, which is why I asked bringing in Edwards. I'd much rather do that and draft a guy, (as you stated) Rascal than outright trade a pick (one we need) for Abraham. Plus, Edwards would be a lot cheaper, and by all means could be just as productive.

Together I think they'd be nice rotating. Neither are exactly everydown guys, (atleast in my opinion) but it does give us some options.

I'd also like to see us go after a guy who can be a pass rush in the interior, maybe a guy like Bernard who could work under Warren.

[DBroncos4life]

I think Engleberger is an average starter, which is why I asked bringing in Edwards. I'd much rather do that and draft a guy, (as you stated) Rascal than outright trade a pick (one we need) for Abraham. Plus, Edwards would be a lot cheaper, and by all means could be just as productive.

Together I think they'd be nice rotating. Neither are exactly everydown guys, (atleast in my opinion) but it does give us some options.

I'd also like to see us go after a guy who can be a pass rush in the interior, maybe a guy like Bernard who could work under Warren.
Thats why I want to draft Worten, should we keep Warren. Worten is a guy that feeds off larger guys next to him. He is a guy that plays the run and pass very well. I don't know just how far Worten will fall if he falls at all really. The other guy is that Tenn DT.

[Requiem]

Wroten is still worthy of a first round selection, and by all means would I be pleased if we took him at #29. Jesse Mahelona is the Tennessee defensive tackle, and I think he'd be a good pick up. I think most people have him pegged in the third round.

[Elway777]

I like Abraham and think he is worth the 29 pick but think he will ask a insane amout of money plus a huge signing bonus. I think Greg Ellis is also a good option for Broncos. The Broncos offer Dallas a 2 round draft pick in 2007 plus a 5 rounder this year. The Broncos then add Andea Carter to be a speed rusher ,who should come at a reasonable price. Lde Ellis,Brown Ekuban Rde Carter, Engleburger.

[DBroncos4life]

I like Abraham and think he is worth the 29 pick but think he will ask a insane amout of money plus a huge signing bonus. I think Greg Ellis is also a good option for Broncos. The Broncos offer Dallas a 2 round draft pick in 2007 plus a 5 rounder this year. The Broncos then add Andea Carter to be a speed rusher ,who should come at a reasonable price. Lde Ellis,Brown Ekuban Rde Carter, Engleburger.
Man and we can trade for Seth Payne and have 75% of our roster Dline players. Hilarious!

[DBroncos4life]

Wroten is still worthy of a first round selection, and by all means would I be pleased if we took him at #29. Jesse Mahelona is the Tennessee defensive tackle, and I think he'd be a good pick up. I think most people have him pegged in the third round.
I wasn't meaning that Jesse in the first round. Should we go WR, DE, or TE in the first two rounds then it would be nice to add him somewhere in the third. LeKevin Smith is our type of DT, but I don't want to homer things too much.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The Broncos offer Dallas a 2 round draft pick in 2007 plus a 5 rounder this year.

You so overrate other team's players and underrate Denver's.

[Atlas]

I would be ecstatic to get Abe. But is there a realistic way he can be obtained by giving up our 2nd & 4 rounder? Or our 2nd and a player? I like to retain both out 1st rounders if possible.

1st round picks cost lots of money. If Denver got Abe then they wouldn't need 2 first round picks. I hoped Denver could get a 4th out of the Jets to go along with Abe but it sounds like the Jets are getting alot of action on the trade.

[Atlas]

If he's such a game changer, how come New York has never won jack**** with him? 10-6 is the best record they've ever mustered with John Abraham in the lineup. I thought the guy was worth several wins a year all by himself.

Maybe the Jets would have finished 8-8 without him

[bendog]

Why don't we just persue a guy like Kalimba Edwards in free agency? He could probably give us 6-8 sacks a year in our rotation. Without having to give up a first rounder.
Nice idea. Then use the no 1 pick on whoever is on the board of bunkley, wroten and harris to team with Big Money.

[Atlas]

Nice idea. Then use the no 1 pick on whoever is on the board of bunkley, wroten and harris to team with Big Money.

I like Wroten but I think it all depends on who the Broncos sign in FA. As it is right now. DE, DT, RB, WR and S are the biggest concerns

Trade for ABE,
Sign Warren
Sign Lewis or Hemp boy
Sign T.O.

If all these happen then Denver is set going into the draft!! They can take whoever they choose.

If Denver doesn't sign Owens though they might use that first pick on a WR. Perhaps Jackson or Moss.

[DBroncos4life]

I like Wroten but I think it all depends on who the Broncos sign in FA. As it is right now. DE, DT, RB, WR and S are the biggest concerns

Trade for ABE,
Sign Warren
Sign Lewis or Hemp boy
Sign T.O.

If all these happen then Denver is set going into the draft!! They can take whoever they choose.

If Denver doesn't sign Owens though they might use that first pick on a WR. Perhaps Jackson or Moss.
I would have a hard time seeing Denver drafting Moss, due to his size. There is that Plummer has a harder time seeing out of the pocket thing that someone said last year that makes me think that.

[WABronco]

"Mark Cannizzaro, of the New York Post, reports a source out of Atlanta said the Atlanta Falcons interest in New York Jets franchise DE John Abraham is waning because of his price tag. The source said the Falcons, after doing a lot of research on Abraham, are not concerned with his supposed "character issues" and more concerned about the money. The source also said the Falcons would not trade their first-round pick in the NFL Draft for Abraham."

[Rascal]

I like Wroten but I think it all depends on who the Broncos sign in FA. As it is right now. DE, DT, RB, WR and S are the biggest concerns

Trade for ABE,
Sign Warren
Sign Lewis or Hemp boy
Sign T.O.

If all these happen then Denver is set going into the draft!! They can take whoever they choose.

If Denver doesn't sign Owens though they might use that first pick on a WR. Perhaps Jackson or Moss.

I seriously doubt we have the ability (cap room or desire) to make all those moves.

[bendog]

I like Wroten but I think it all depends on who the Broncos sign in FA. As it is right now. DE, DT, RB, WR and S are the biggest concerns

Trade for ABE,
Sign Warren
Sign Lewis or Hemp boy
Sign T.O.

If all these happen then Denver is set going into the draft!! They can take whoever they choose.

If Denver doesn't sign Owens though they might use that first pick on a WR. Perhaps Jackson or Moss.

Moss is a dwarf.

[Atlas]

[QUOTE=Rascal]I seriously doubt we

i agree but what moves Denver does make will probably dictate what they do in the draft.

I think if reinstated, Ricky Williams will come dirt cheap.

[ncjmirabile]

I know their not the most reliable source, but PFT posted on their site about Abraham getting 27 million in the first three year of a long-term contract with Denver.

www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

[Mile High Shack]

I know their not the most reliable source, but PFT posted on their site about Abraham getting 27 million in the first three year of a long-term contract with Denver.

www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

probably that geek on the webcam

[Paladin]

[QUOTE=ncjmirabile]I know their not the most reliable source, but PFT posted on their site about Abraham getting 27 million in the first three year of a long-term contract with Denver.QUOTE]

That would be freaking horrendous!

[DBroncos4life]

We are getting ****ed big time. Yeah lets bring in Abe. ****ING COCK BALLS **** EATING GOAT ****ING BARBRA STREISAND!!!!

[Atlas]

[QUOTE=ncjmirabile]I know their not the most reliable source, but PFT posted on their site about Abraham getting 27 million in the first three year of a long-term contract with Denver.QUOTE]

That would be freaking horrendous!

What did you expect????

Tell you a little secret, due to the new CBA lots of salaries are going to be higher than expected.

[baja]

That would make him the highest paid player on the team. No way in hell!

[Atlas]

That would make him the highest paid player on the team. No way in hell!

Maybe, maybe not. Sounds similar to what Champ got.

[12th man]

Its not like we are a old team though. If we are as old as KC, yeah I can see it but our oldest players are Rod, Lynch and Nalen. Only one of those guys will be hard to replace.
It just seems like Mike doesn't care about the future here because he has plans to leave soon anyways. Thats not cool.
What? we were so close to the sb last year. We are a couple peices away from winning it. We don't need to rebuild anymore...rebuilding this teams was like 3 years ago when we signed jake. We have the majority of the peicis to win now. And with the new cap this year we got more money and we could sign more great skilled players. We can worry about the future in the draft. Shanahan cares. Also, I havn't heard of him leaving anytime soon. He hasn't said squat, and Bowlen will do anything to keep. Just don't worry. we are fine.

[TheDave]

We are getting ****ed big time. Yeah lets bring in Abe. ****ING cork BALLS **** EATING GOAT ****ING BARBRA STREISAND!!!!

Sooo does that mean you won't be buying an abe shirt anytime soon

[DBroncos4life]

Sooo does that mean you won't be buying an abe shirt anytime soon
I don't like large number jerseys. They don't look right so if his number is between 0-9 then I may think about it.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I don't like large number jerseys. They don't look right so if his number is between 0-9 then I may think about it.


Narrow shoulders ???? ;D

[-Slap-]

That would make him the highest paid player on the team. No way in hell!
What. A. ****ing. Joke.

[-Slap-]

Champ Bailey would play with a goddamn broken leg if they let him.

[Clockwork Orange]

Champ Bailey would play with a goddamn broken leg if they let him.

Champ's toughness and dedication are probably his most overlooked attributes. 1st team All-Pro despite playing the entire season with shoulder and hamstring injuries.

What's it gonna say to him when the Broncos give more money to someone who wasn't willing to put it on the line in a playoff game?

[bendog]

We are getting ****ed big time. Yeah lets bring in Abe. ****ING cork BALLS **** EATING GOAT ****ING BARBRA STREISAND!!!!
I'd eat barbara striesand.

[DBroncos4life]

Narrow shoulders ???? ;D
It could be Ha! If I keep sitting around at this job my belly will be right for numbers in the 60's :thumbs:

[BroncoBuff]

The Jets website lists him at just 256 pounds ... and the depth chart has him at weakside LB ... what's up with that?

We already have TWO Will LBs starting on our defense.

[Elway777]

I'm starting to think that TO and AndreCarter should be Denvers targets as free agents . Then Denver drafts Hali with 22 pick and Joseph Addai with the 29 pick to challage Dayne for starting tailback job. Wroten would be a solid 2 round draft pick for the Broncos.Getting Warren signs would be Denvers top priority but at a reasonable price. I willing to go as high as between 5 and 6 million for Warren with a signing bonus at 8 million.

[Kaylore]

The Jets website lists him at just 256 pounds ... and the depth chart has him at weakside LB ... what's up with that?

We already have TWO Will LBs starting on our defense. http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/NYJ
Says he's a defensive end.

[WABronco]

The Jets website lists him at just 256 pounds ... and the depth chart has him at weakside LB ... what's up with that?

We already have TWO Will LBs starting on our defense.

Well obviously it's his natural position:oyvey: . He's an end, but he's versatile enough to stand up and rush.

[RMT]

I'm starting to think that TO and AndreCarter should be Denvers targets as free agents . Then Denver drafts Hali with 22 pick and Joseph Addai with the 29 pick to challage Dayne for starting tailback job. Wroten would be a solid 2 round draft pick for the Broncos.Getting Warren signs would be Denvers top priority but at a reasonable price. I willing to go as high as between 5 and 6 million for Warren with a signing bonus at 8 million.

That's the most sane post I've read in a while. REP :)

[Play2win]

That's the most sane post I've read in a while. REP :)
What is so SANE about doing a HUGE reach for Joseph Addai in the, let me get this straight, THE FIRST ROUND ?!?

[DBroncos4life]

What is so SANE about doing a HUGE reach for Joseph Addai in the, let me get this straight, THE FIRST ROUND ?!?
It would be better if it went Wroten in the first then Addai, but thats just my opinion. I really don't want to draft a RB that early though.

[rbackfactory80]

The Jets website lists him at just 256 pounds ... and the depth chart has him at weakside LB ... what's up with that?

We already have TWO Will LBs starting on our defense.


Its funny that we have such strong hate on this site for Abraham, and the haters don't even know what position he plays. I guess the question that should have been asked is not whether you think he would be a good fit in Denver but rather have you ever seen him play?

[SoCalBronco]

It would be better if it went Wroten in the first then Addai, but thats just my opinion. I really don't want to draft a RB that early though.

But we dont really have anything at the position right now DB.

[RMT]

Its funny that we have such strong hate on this site for Abraham, and the haters don't even know what position he plays. I guess the question that should have been asked is not whether you think he would be a good fit in Denver but rather have you ever seen him play?

I like how he plays, but we mustn't overpay to get him either ...

[DBroncos4life]

But we dont really have anything at the position right now DB.
Is he that much better then Mike Bell or Calhoun? Maybe we can get one of them in the thrid. That Moore guy looks good too. Plus there is always Cokehead. ROFL! It wouldn't crush me if we drafted a RB in the second but if we trade our other first for Abe it might.

[RMT]

Is he that much better then Mike Bell or Calhoun? Maybe we can get one of them in the thrid. That Moore guy looks good too. Plus there is always Cokehead. ROFL! It wouldn't crush me if we drafted a RB in the second but if we trade our other first for Abe it might.

I'll be disappointed if we give up a 1st round pick for Abraham, even if we do NOT draft a RB in the 2nd round.

[DBroncos4life]

Its funny that we have such strong hate on this site for Abraham, and the haters don't even know what position he plays. I guess the question that should have been asked is not whether you think he would be a good fit in Denver but rather have you ever seen him play?
The haterS don't know what position he plays? One guy is a hater. Pretty sure the rest of know what position he plays.

[SoCalBronco]

I'll be disappointed if we give up a 1st round pick for Abraham, even if we do NOT draft a RB in the 2nd round.

Get ready to be disappointed.

[Play2win]

It would be better if it went Wroten in the first then Addai, but thats just my opinion. I really don't want to draft a RB that early though.
The one RB I want is Deangelo Williams. I know it would take a bit to get him, but he would absolutely dominate in this system...

If we could get POPE and Deangelo Williams, some how some way, there would be none of this getting to the next level, WE WOULD BE THERE !!!

[rbackfactory80]

The haterS don't know what position he plays? One guy is a hater. Pretty sure the rest of know what position he plays.

R u positive? He isn't a RB or a OLB for that matter.

[DBroncos4life]

Get ready to be disappointed.
I think its going to happen as well. I also think that we are going to push hard for Lewis as well. I could see us landing Jackson/Pope in the first, best DT left in the second and Klop or Byrd in the third. If we go TE in the first then I would guess that we go WR in the third. Just a guess though.

[DBroncos4life]

R u positive? He isn't a RB or a OLB for that matter.
dude everyone knows hes a punter.

[Play2win]

I have hardly ever seen Abraham play. A few questions-

How does he hold up against the run?

How much of his Havok is him and how much was it his supporting cast?

Would he actually get to the QB, or would he be like everybody else seems to do here as of late and get there right after the QB releases the ball?

[rbackfactory80]

It is unfortunate that there will be no crow eating thread until about mid season.

[rbackfactory80]

dude everyone knows hes a punter.

Hahaha :spit:

[Play2win]

dude everyone knows hes a punter.
Well, if he can tackle like Sourbuns, then SWEET!!!!!!

[rbackfactory80]

I have hardly ever seen Abraham play. A few questions-

How does he hold up against the run?

How much of his Havok is him and how much was it his supporting cast?

Would he actually get to the QB, or would he be like everybody else seems to do here as of late and get there right after the QB releases the ball?

He does over pursue often, he has to play with more disipline. However he is real quick and if someone slips past him we are better suited to handle that then the Jets. He will be a huge help on those third and longs were you cut him free and he would make it to the QB.

[broncohaven]

It would be better if it went Wroten in the first then Addai, but thats just my opinion. I really don't want to draft a RB that early though.
Wroten in the first is a bigger reach than Addai. I like Elway777s idea, but Maroney would be the only RB with a chance to be available that would be worth a 1st.

[DBroncos4life]

Wroten in the first is a bigger reach than Addai. I like Elway777s idea, but Maroney would be the only RB with a chance to be available that would be worth a 1st.
Are you kidding me? Wroten should be a first round pick.

[WABronco]

How does he hold up against the run?
He's a speed rusher. Not many speed rushers hold up against the run...

How much of his Havok is him and how much was it his supporting cast?
He's an elite speed rusher. That's something our scouting department would notice if it was a problem.


Would he actually get to the QB, or would he be like everybody else seems to do here as of late and get there right after the QB releases the ball
Huh? Lol...

[Popps]

I hope we pull the trigger on this. Re-work the guy's contract, make it sensible... and bring in someone that can actually make something happen on our d-line.

I love the logic of panicking over losing one draft pick. Yea, I'd hate to miss out on our next Ashley Lelie... or, god forbid... our next George Foster. Deltha O'Neil? Marcus Nash, Middlebrooks? We've knocked it out of the park so many times in the first round, it's hard for me to keep it straight. I can certainly understand how Bronco fans would be terrified to pass up more opportunities like that.

To make the panic even more confusing, we'd STILL have a first round pick.

So, let me see... we can trade for a guy who can actually play and fill a position where were were near the bottom of the league... and still have a first round pick to use, OR ... we can take two stabs in the dark and hope for production in a couple of seasons?

As for the "no need to win now" crowd, I think we've played that tune long enough. If any Bronco fan can't look at this squad and tell that it's more special than some of the squads we've trotted out in the last five years, I don't know what to tell you. Let's start with hosting an AFC championship game. Ya think that might mean we're pretty decent? Ya think that might mean we're a player or two away?

Yea, being aggressive sucks. Let's sit with our thumbs in our asses, blindfolded and throw darts on draft day.

I remember the last time we traded a first round pick. It really sucked for us.

[watermock]

He's not worth a first and 9 million per guaranteed, period.

Denver is waiting to see what hits the street.

[24champ]

He's not worth a first and 9 million per guaranteed, period.

Denver is waiting to see what hits the street.
werent we paying Pryce 8-9 million last year for 4 freaking sacks? Abraham played on a crappy team, imagine what this guy will be like on an actual team that can play.

[Popps]

He's not worth a first and 9 million per guaranteed, period.

Denver is waiting to see what hits the street.


Wasn't that 9 mil per season based on PFT's "sources?"

Question, if Denver could get him for a year for 8M, why would they choose instead to pay 9?

No way our front office signs a deal like that.