What has the NFLPA Done for us the FAN?

[broncosteven]

The owners at least get us to pay for new Stadiums so we can watch the games on new fields with new facilities (while we pay with our own tax dollars) but I was wondering what the NFL Players Association does for us, the average NFL Fan?

The players, or reps/agents, seem to want a larger piece of the owner’s pie but what are they going to do for us the lowly fan? Sign autographs after games for an hour? Give more to their foundations, some players do have big time foundations & give their time as well as money, Build better parking lots for us, build Public parks? I don't know what the NFLPA does other than act as a union to help the players exact a larger payday.

I feel that taking away money from the owners takes away money from the franchise that I root for & support. Players come & go & follow a pay day they get their money & move on. They don't care about us & look at us as an obligation that comes with the job, there are exceptions & I am generalizing but at least the owners need to lure us into their product & market it. I would rather see the money stay with the owners & have them continue to invest in their assesses than see it go to the players & disappear into the ether. Over the 30+ years I have followed & loved the Broncos my love has been for the franchise & not a single player.

Either way the rich get richer, I want the guy who has to work to get my money to richer than the guy who hits a payday & then holds out & acts like a fool. If the NFLPA could control the guys that hold out & act like fools so the average NFL fan could hear positive stories about the players instead of the headcases & multiple substance abuse offenders then I might be less inclined to side with the owners.

Any thoughts from the Mane in general?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

They score touchdowns for us, silly.

[ludo21]

Good post bro!

I agree with all of it, but the players will always want part of the revenue, i have no big problem with that as they are the product the team is selling, but they are lucky that the owners even let them in on it. And then they have the audacity to be greedy pigs about it. ughh

[orinjkrush]

labor unions suck in general. if it weren't for them we could be making more money by working a 100 hours a week and our kids could make even more money too. my household budget sucks because of them.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=orinjkrush]labor unions suck in general. QUOTE]

Careful - you are about to get bombarded by a couple of members.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

labor unions suck in general. if it weren't for them we could be making more money by working a 100 hours a week and our kids could make even more money too. my household budget sucks because of them.

Yes, thank God unions such as the NFLPA, NHLPA, MLBPA, and NBAPA have been at the forefront of all unions in their battle for better wages and working conditions.

[bendog]

You look at what playing football does to their bodies, I really don't begrudge the players. I'm not sure they are as generous to the older retired players who didn't benefit from the CBAs, but ....

I agree somewhat with the critisicm of Upshaw where rooks who hold out, and some vets, really aren't financially punished. But on the other hand, the article on Birk dissing upshaw was largely over not having guaranteed contracts, and I hate guaranteed contracts in baseball. And with the big bonuses to first round picks, I can see the criticism because the % who are busts seems prolly 30%, and higher with WRs, so I can see the critisism of "players should prove they can play before they get the big bucks," cause often its the TD's who are most productive, but then a guy can blow a knee at any time, so who can blame the 1st rounders for getting it while they can.

[orange crusher]

If you think the owners build the new stadiums for us (the fans), you are fooling yourself. They build them so they can add luxury boxes and more concessions so they can make more money. I'll give Bowlen some credit because he isn't afraid to put money into his team, but I'll stop short of saying that he built a new stadium for the fans.

[Alkazar]

I tend to agree with you, personally. Too many athletes have an over-inflated sense of self worth.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The owners don't do ANYTHING for the fans except take their money and then decide how much of it to give to the players.

[Merlin]

I thought idiot tax payers build stadiums, and owners benefited from them. Yes, owners have always been driven by their good will to help the community, and not the need to line their pockets. My bad.

[Dudeskey]

**** the union, I just want to be able to see a ****ing game without having to file bankruptcy the following monday...™

[GonzoLays]

What has the NFL ever done for us? They just take our money plain and simple. I don't see to many owners mailing out "thank you checks" to the fans for supporting the team finacially. Do you know that it costs a family of an average of 400 dollars to see a bunch of grown overpaid men hit each other. Thats crazy. But that is also good in a way because the NFL will never get more than 25 bucks a year from me. If the NFL ceased to exist tomorrow I could care less. And I love the sport.

[Atlas]

The owners at least get us to pay for new Stadiums so we can watch the games on new fields with new facilities (while we pay with our own tax dollars) but I was wondering what the NFL Players Association does for us, the average NFL Fan?

?


I don't think it's the NFLPA's job to do anything for the fan.

[2KBack]

Honestly it isn't the owners or the NFLPA's job to do anything special for us. Would it be nice, sure, but they are just a buisness offering a product in demand. Go into a McDonalds sometime and claim that they owe you something because of all the bugers you've eated in your life. They didn't come to your house and say "pay for these bugers, or game tickets." You want the product, they offer the product, end of relationship. The NFLPA controls what makes a good product, the players. Do they want to please the fans, of course, that's how they make the most money. Good Products sell better. It's a bit arrogant to think that because you spent a lot of money on a something you like, that the person selling it owes you something more.

[Sodak]

**** the union, I just want to be able to see a ****ing game without having to file bankruptcy the following monday...™


I love this post...

[bronco militia]

**** the union, I just want to be able to see a ****ing game without having to file bankruptcy the following monday...™


haha

[sirhcyennek81]

the NFLPA has given us an endless stream of Upshaw jokes, and yet another reason why anyone who was a Raider for any length of time should not be allowed to 1. run the NFL or 2. Run the Player's Union.

:Broncos:

[Raider Bill]

the NFLPA has given us an endless stream of Upshaw jokes, and yet another reason why anyone who was a Raider for any length of time should not be allowed to 1. run the NFL or 2. Run the Player's Union.

:Broncos:


So Upshaw has somehow appointed himself as the head of the union and managed to maintain this position for over 20 years and all the while going against the wishes of the majority of his constituency.

[sirhcyennek81]

So Upshaw has somehow appointed himself as the head of the union and managed to maintain this position for over 20 years and all the while going against the wishes of the majority of his constituency.

Worked for Ted Kennedy.

:Broncos:

[Taco John]

They came to my Birthday party.

[broncosteven]

I don't belong to a union & I make a very good wage, not unfathomable millions of dollars but good money none the less.

I side more with the Owners on this dispute though their willingness to push the date back multiple times tells me that they don't want the cap to end. They at least have to part with some of their $ to fund the stadium improvements to get the Tax breaks.

Most players won't even bother to sign for fans after a football game. Rod Smith is the only exception he has signed after every game I have seen him play at home.

If anything they should cut the price of the game tickets & Directtv costs so we can enjoy their product.

[anthonypacino]

I totally agree broncosteve, but the sad thing is, it is just like the ticket price hikes, the price gouging during the playoffs, Even if we say we won't pay for it...someone else will. Players (some) blow off fans, Peyton makes fun of them on TV ads. All the while they forget that if we did'nt care about the game as much as we do, they would not be getting paid what they are. No desire for football=no money, most of these guys would be just like the rest of us...clawing and scratching for everything.

[Rausch]

Words.......words and words and words...more words....bla bla bla


Liz Phair is friggen hot.

[Kaylore]

Any thoughts from the Mane in general? Yeah I have a few.

What has the NFLPA done for the fans? Nothing. And they aren't supposed to. They're a union and their obligation is to their constituents. That's it. Complaining that a Union of some group of workers that you're not a part of hasn't done something for you is hilarious. You might complain that the Steelworkers Union hasn't done anything for you recently, that you're upset the Amish haven't cut you a check lately, or that Save the Whales hasn't worked on your deck this week. All observations are rooted in the notion that organizations should do things that they don't do and we should be upset about it.

Now I don't like Unions. I think they had their purpose a long time ago, but now they are political puppets of the left and only serve to ensure laziness and underserved feelings of self-entitlement. I don't agree with how Gene Upshaw is playing this and it looks like he and the owners are going to end up cutting off their noses to spite their face. HOWEVER, to be upset that a special interest group isn't concerned about the broader interests of other people is and only their own interests is really pretty silly.


I'll say this too: If this is over and Gene Upshaw gets his players %59.5 (or better), everyone who has criticized him, including myself, will be eating a ton of crow and he'll look like a genius.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Now I don't like Unions. I think they had their purpose a long time ago, but now they are political puppets of the left and only serve to ensure laziness and underserved feelings of self-entitlement.

Amazing the amount of ignorance that prevails in this country! You probably still think the mob runs Vegas.

[-Slap-]

Amazing the amount of ignorance that prevails in this country! You probably still think the mob runs Vegas.
It was a much nicer and safer town when they did.

[Rock Chalk]

To be fair to the owners.

Have any of you received a thank you note from Wal Mart or Target or any grocery store from an owner of the establishment?

What are they, as owners of a business, supposed to do for you other than provide you the service that their business operates under? Owners provide us with a form of entertainment.

Now, as for the NFLPA, tell me exactly what part of the NFLPA stands for Fan? The NFLPA isn't out to help the fans, its out to help the PLAYERS since its a PLAYERS ASSOCIATION.

A dirty union, but nonetheless, not intended to give anything to the fans. Does the car factory workers union (whatever its called) do anything for fans of the cars that their workers produce? (They have fan clubs ya know) No. They do things to help the workers.

So whats the problem here?

[-Slap-]

I find all the hand wringing very comical. Its a goddamn labor dispute. Eventually, as in all viable enterprises, it will be settled and things will go on as normal. I think the funniest thing are the people who vow to never watch another game after some sport has a strike or lockout. It just cracks me up that anyone would take it so personally. The supermarkets go on strike occassionally, that doesn't mean I'm never going to buy another head of lettuce.

If some contract squabble between players and management, in any sport, affects your life so adversely, its probably a good time to expand your horizons and diversify your interests a little bit.

[watermock]

The difference is that while UAW workers are being laid off and their host companies are losing billions, the NFL is making billions. It's just rats fighting over cheese right now.

[broncosteven]

The difference is that while UAW workers are being laid off and their host companies are losing billions, the NFL is making billions. It's just rats fighting over cheese right now.


Mock finally makes a great point.

Both sides are fighting over Cheese right now, the Owners & the League made the Cheese. Players come & go there are no massive layoffs just cuts for underperforming players too bad cuts are not performace based in the real world. Why should we side or feel sorry for the players is all I meant in my posts.

The Owners break off a piece of the Cheese every now & then when they upgrade facilities & give us a nice place to spend a Sunday afternoon, also at the expense of local tax payers, but they get it done none the less. We end up getting something back. If the NFLPA didn't screw over their own Retired players who didn't get any $ before the new labor deals, guys who built the foundations for the new greedy bastages! & if Rookie contracts were based more on incentives rather than Lottery type paydays then I would not feel so strongly against them.

My point is the NFLPA in their greed is going to rip up the hunk of Cheese & maybe we won't see the benefits we saw in the past.

Anyway I wanted to see how everyone else felt here & I guess I am in the minority on siding with Ownership on this squable, or even caring.

I know what my Sig says, I also know come fall I will be booking my anuall trip to Denver & root on my Broncos, even if we get a few former Felons & or ass clowns & they are being paid 5mill a year or more each. Anyway I am not buying any NFL gear until this solved so a few weeks over the offseason won't kill me.

I think the NFLPA is getting a fair cut now as it is, the owners gave them a raise of that cut & they want even more & have already hurt their own Union members by dragging this out & forcing them to be cut by their current teams.

Whatever I said more than I intended to once again, just wanted to know what the feelings here were. Thanks for the posts.

[broncosteven]

So whats the problem here?


No problem, I wanted to know how the rest of the mane felt about the NFLPA holding out & delaying start of FA.

I think eventually the owners have to lure the fans into their stadiums, the players cash their checks & move on with out benefiting the NFL, the community (there are exceptions), or us the fans that buy the NFL product.

Do you care, if so which do you side with. BTW **** it doesn't count.

[bendog]

I thought the holdup was the owners?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No problem, I wanted to know how the rest of the mane felt about the NFLPA holding out & delaying start of FA.

I think eventually the owners have to lure the fans into their stadiums, the players cash their checks & move on with out benefiting the NFL, the community (there are exceptions), or us the fans that buy the NFL product.

Do you care, if so which do you side with. BTW **** it doesn't count.
The players are the NFL so the only reason people show up in the stands is to watch them. So their benefit to the NFL is about 100%. Many players are also deeply involved in their communities and charities.

[broncosteven]

Yeah I have a few.

What has the NFLPA done for the fans? Nothing. And they aren't supposed to. They're a union and their obligation is to their constituents. That's it. Complaining that a Union of some group of workers that you're not a part of hasn't done something for you is hilarious.


The title of the thread was what has the NFLPA done for us as Fans but the reason for my post was to find out how the Members of the Mane feel about the struggle for a few <insert Carl Sagan voice>Billions and Billions<remove Carl Sagans voice> dollars. My point of my post (not the thread title) was that I side with the owners on this & posted the reasons why, I wanted the Mane members to post how they feel about it.

The apathy in the NFL fan base over this struggle reminds me of the start of the Steriod scandal in Baseball in the late 90's with Spammy Sosa & Mcquire. No one in the Fan base cares or has an opionion. I know the steriod issue is a bigger issue, the NFL issue just impacts Billions of dollars over many years & can affect weather the NFL ever has a Salary cap ever again. Plus it was the only comparision I could come up with at the time.

An uncapped year is a big deal & could alter the landscape of football.

I guess I asked this the wrong way.
SO WHAT I AM ASKING PEOPLE IS WHICH SIDE OF THE FENCE ARE YOU ON? Owners or Players? Don't care?

[broncosteven]

The players are the NFL so the only reason people show up in the stands is to watch them. So their benefit to the NFL is about 100%. Many players are also deeply involved in their communities and charities.


I go to watch the Broncos. I loved Floyd as a kid & when he left I was crushed but Haven was still there & I liked Gradishar. Then there was Elway, when he left my feelings for the team never dipped even after the bad year when TD went down. If anything I love the TEAM more. I will watch scabs if they put them out there & pay them a stipend to play. I realized I am a fan of the Team/org not a player or 2.

I made a comment that there are exceptions to the players involved in communities

[broncosteven]

I thought the holdup was the owners?


I thought the hold up was the owners balking at Agreeing to the NFLPA's demands.

[bendog]

The title of the thread was what has the NFLPA done for us as Fans but the reason for my post was to find out how the Members of the Mane feel about the struggle for a few <insert Carl Sagan voice>Billions and Billions<remove Carl Sagans voice> dollars. My point of my post (not the thread title) was that I side with the owners on this & posted the reasons why, I wanted the Mane members to post how they feel about it.

The apathy in the NFL fan base over this struggle reminds me of the start of the Steriod scandal in Baseball in the late 90's with Spammy Sosa & Mcquire. No one in the Fan base cares or has an opionion. I know the steriod issue is a bigger issue, the NFL issue just impacts Billions of dollars over many years & can affect weather the NFL ever has a Salary cap ever again. Plus it was the only comparision I could come up with at the time.

An uncapped year is a big deal & could alter the landscape of football.

I guess I asked this the wrong way.
SO WHAT I AM ASKING PEOPLE IS WHICH SIDE OF THE FENCE ARE YOU ON? Owners or Players? Don't care?

The owners are rich parasites, but prolly necessary. The players ARE THE GAME, and while they get paid a lot, they tend to be physically limited by their forties, and they die about 10 years earlier than the norm for the rest of us. Like Slap said, it's a labour dispute that will be settled because ultimately reason will form a consensus.

What's made baseball a different game was the failure to get revenue sharing and open the books to the union. With FA one can have a fav team or a fav player, but not both.

EDIT BUT YOU DO UNDERSTAND THE UNION HAS SIGNED OFF ON A DEAL? And the owners can't agree on revenue sharing ... yet.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

The players are the NFL so the only reason people show up in the stands is to watch them. So their benefit to the NFL is about 100%. Many players are also deeply involved in their communities and charities.

Its not a one way street. Without the owners, there would be no stadiums, TV contracts, merchandising, etc. that provide the money the players make and the game we enjoy. And many owners are deeply involved in the communities and charities. I know Bowlen is a very large personal contributor to one of my preferred local charities.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I go to watch the Broncos. I loved Floyd as a kid & when he left I was crushed but Haven was still there & I liked Gradishar. Then there was Elway, when he left my feelings for the team never dipped even after the bad year when TD went down. If anything I love the TEAM more. I will watch scabs if they put them out there & pay them a stipend to play. I realized I am a fan of the Team/org not a player or 2.

I made a comment that there are exceptions to the players involved in communities
Not me, no way I pay money to see arena football players play in the NFL.

The owners gouge the fans at every turn, stadiums, parking, concessions, ticket prices, etc... to fill their pockets and you're a fan of them?

Its not a one way street. Without the owners, there would be no stadiums, TV contracts, merchandising, etc. that provide the money the players make and the game we enjoy. And many owners are deeply involved in the communities and charities. I know Bowlen is a very large personal contributor to one of my preferred local charities.
Absolutely, and they have one goal, to take as much money from you and me as we will give them.

[bendog]

http://www.dispatch.com/sports-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/03/08/20060308-F3-00.html

btw, why is it a 'demand' when workers have a position and not a 'demand' when the owners have a position?

[bendog]

Its not a one way street. Without the owners, there would be no stadiums, TV contracts, merchandising, etc. that provide the money the players make and the game we enjoy. And many owners are deeply involved in the communities and charities. I know Bowlen is a very large personal contributor to one of my preferred local charities.
Green Bay has no owner.

[Spider]

http://www.dispatch.com/sports-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/03/08/20060308-F3-00.html

btw, why is it a 'demand' when workers have a position and not a 'demand' when the owners have a position?
damn good question ........... I read some of the posts here and just shake my head .........

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Absolutely, and they have one goal, to take as much money from you and me as we will give them.

As do the players. It's supply and demand. As long as the demand is there the prices will rise.

Dog - you are right, GB does not have a single owner. It is owned by a defacto corporation which does make a profit and does contribute to charities.

[Chimporilla]

It was a much nicer and safer town when they did.

Bullshiat! And I say that not with anger but with humor. Las Vegas is ten times the town it used to be. Hell, I think it's the greatest city on the planet until I get back from it. It takes me about a week to fully recover. Then it takes me another 9-12 months to decide it's the greatest city ever and go back. Then the cycle repeats itself over and over. Anyway, the mob would never have had the foresight or cash to make Vegas the city it is today...

Wow, I took this one off the rails big time.

Uh, the NFLPA; not obligated to the fans for jack. Only obligated to serve the interest of the players.

Labor Unions: by and large very good. If anyone wants to get a glimpse of what the U.S. job market would like without them, take a look at the average Wal-Mart worker. Now extrapolate that to every job in the nation. Anyone who thinks that large corporations don't do everything they possibly can to suppress the wages of their employees is fooling themselves. And anyone who doesn't think that small business wouldn't do the exact same thing hasn't thought this through.

Unions aren't for everybody in every line of work. But the mere fact of their existences keeps employers both large and small on their toes. No CEO or owner wants to get a letter telling them their employees plan to unionize. This makes them pay a competitive wage for the most part.

Anyone who wants to get an idea of what life was life before unions needs to go back and read a good book about the industrial revolution. Also, it happened again during the Great Depression. Check out The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck. Labor unions have contributed mightily to the success of this nation and its standard of living.

[bendog]

As do the players. It's supply and demand. As long as the demand is there the prices will rise.

Dog - you are right, GB does not have a single owner. It is owned by a defacto corporation which does make a profit and does contribute to charities.
The Pack actually makes a profit? I realize they are owned by a corportation made up of citizens who bought shares in the team. But I didn't think the point was to increase the value of the shares, which is the purpose of a regular corporation. Of course the value of the shares has to have risen as the value of the team rose, but I don't know why the state would give money for the stadium if the team actually pays dividends to the owners of stock. Maybe they give money to charity rather than pay dividends.

[broncosteven]

Thanks for posting guys. I want to get your opinions & not have ideas planted into my head by the mainstream media on this.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

The Pack actually makes a profit? I realize they are owned by a corportation made up of citizens who bought shares in the team. But I didn't think the point was to increase the value of the shares, which is the purpose of a regular corporation. Of course the value of the shares has to have risen as the value of the team rose, but I don't know why the state would give money for the stadium if the team actually pays dividends to the owners of stock. Maybe they give money to charity rather than pay dividends.
To my knowledge they do not pay any dividends. Can't tell you how they use their profits, but since they are a public company, the info is available.

While most teams have a visible "owner" they all are actually owned by different types of partnerships and corporations. I don't keep track but I know that Bowlen has several minority partners (some family). This was an issue in his fight with Edgar kaiser over the last 3-4 years.

[-Slap-]

EDIT BUT YOU DO UNDERSTAND THE UNION HAS SIGNED OFF ON A DEAL? And the owners can't agree on revenue sharing ... yet.
I know, but we should still lynch Gene Upshaw because he singlehandedly tried to ruin pro football, for no reason, either, he just did it to be a jerk. I hate him, I hate him, I hate him.......:notthissh

[Bronco_Beerslug]

To my knowledge they do not pay any dividends. Can't tell you how they use their profits, but since they are a public company, the info is available.

There are no profits from the stock. The stock can never appreciate in value or be sold except back to the team for a small percentage of the original value. I think the executive board makes the financial decisions.

[Rock Chalk]

Labor unions have contributed mightily to the success of this nation and its standard of living.
Funny thing how that works.

Standard of living increase = higher wages = higher operating costs = higher priced goods = less buying power for your higher wages.

Only idiots dont get it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Funny thing how that works.

Standard of living increase = higher wages = higher operating costs = higher priced goods = less buying power for your higher wages.

Only idiots dont get it.
And you're the shinning example of that.

You also forgot safer working conditions, health benefits, funded pensions, etc... all which result in a better, higher quality of life and less strain on government.

[yavoon]

And you're the shinning example of that.

You also forgot safer working conditions, health benefits, funded pensions, etc... all which result in a better, higher quality of life and less strain on government.

funny thing, defined pension plans are sinking a lot of companies. I doubt there will exist defined benefit pensions in 20 years, or maybe 10, besides of course the gov't.

similar w/ health benefits, but thats slightly more complicated:)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

funny thing, defined pension plans are sinking a lot of companies. I doubt there will exist defined benefit pensions in 20 years, or maybe 10, besides of course the gov't.

similar w/ health benefits, but thats slightly more complicated:)

A large percentage of unions run their own pension and health plans under stricter rules than most companies.

Our union has 80,000 people (plan contributors) and is subject to employee-employer rules and regulations that ensure plan solvency.

[Kaylore]

And you're the shinning example of that.

You also forgot safer working conditions, health benefits, funded pensions, etc... all which result in a better, higher quality of life and less strain on government.
That was how it worked a long time ago last century. These days light rail shuts down and the workers go on strike if they can't have their birthday off as paid vacation. I suppose they'll be asking for Arbor day next. I don't know anyone that gets their birthday off as a paid vacation.

I guess I asked this the wrong way.
SO WHAT I AM ASKING PEOPLE IS WHICH SIDE OF THE FENCE ARE YOU ON? Owners or Players? Don't care?
Well I suppose I'm on the players' side. They take the beating and risk their careers every game. It doesn't take much to see that the career expectancy of an NFL player is much lower than any other sport and often when you end your career, you spend the rest of your life in pain and discomfort.

That doesn't mean I agree with how Gene Upshaw is handling it, though. If the deal breaks down because of him he will be screwing the rank and file players pretty badly. However, as I already said, if he gets what he wants for his players, he'll be regarded as a genius and we'll all eat crow.

The Owners do have to do a lot. The per diem for NFL players can be ridiculous and operating a decent training camp and feeding your guys can be expensive. Not to mention promotional things like fan day and whatnot. Players probably don't appreciate what it takes to put people into a stadium and get them gyped about a team. Owners and their organizations have a lot to do and a lot to pay for.

However they aren't the guys out their taking a beating. I'm also wondering if the NFLPA wasn't a factor if the deal wouldn't still be stalled given the owners can't agree how to share the wealth. If that is the case, they're just as much to blame as Mr. Upshaw.

[yavoon]

A large percentage of unions run their own pension and health plans under stricter rules than most companies.

Our union has 80,000 people (plan contributors) and is subject to employee-employer rules and regulations that ensure plan solvency.

=], most plans become insolvent because of rivals in the industry that have no such obligations(ie toyota has no defined benefit obligations). afterall the plan gets its money from somewhere.

again! similar things are happening w/ health plans(foreign companies have no obligation towards their workers health plans)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That was how it worked a long time ago last century. These days light rail shuts down and the workers go on strike if they can't have their birthday off as paid vacation. I suppose they'll be asking for Arbor day next. I don't know anyone that gets their birthday off as a paid vacation.


Just like all companies, not all unions are the same.
Your statement would make the same amount of sense if you substituted company for union, which is none.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

=], most plans become insolvent because of rivals in the industry that have no such obligations(ie toyota has no defined benefit obligations). afterall the plan gets its money from somewhere.

again! similar things are happening w/ health plans(foreign companies have no obligation towards their workers health plans)
Nah, analysts on CNBC compared Toyota, Ford, GM and Honda and found they are paying basically the same amount of benefits to current American workers. The difference being in the amount of total employees that have the benefits (total number of employees who have passed through the company doors).

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Nah, analysts on CNBC compared Toyota, Ford, GM and Honda and found they are paying basically the same amount of benefits to current American workers. The difference being in the amount of total employees that have the benefits (total number of employees who have passed through the company doors).

Falicy in this is that Toyota, etc does not have the number of retirees on the books as the Amerian companies, because they have not had as many employees in the US in their history.

[yavoon]

Nah, analysts on CNBC compared Toyota, Ford, GM and Honda and found they are paying basically the same amount of benefits to current American workers. The difference being in the amount of total employees that have the benefits (total number of employees who have passed through the company doors).

toyota has zero obligation to retired employees as far as I know(since its all 401k once ur done w/ the company the company's done w/ u). and therein has always been the problem.

[yavoon]

one of the places I think unions are especially interesting are airlines. a lot of the reason to even start a new airline is to gain the advantage over the older airline that is strapped w/ the union.

[bendog]

Actually, with rising productivity Americans are producing more and real wages are falling. The NFLPA doesn't let retired guys vote, but the UAW does.

Anyway, for fear of making it a political thread, imo, one cannot logically compare a union in a pro sport with a union in private industry or even govt. Reagan fired the air traffic controlers. That won't work in the NFL. And, while you or I could quit and go to work for a competitor, pro athelets don't have that option outside of what their CBA allows.

[broncosteven]

That was how it worked a long time ago last century. These days light rail shuts down and the workers go on strike if they can't have their birthday off as paid vacation. I suppose they'll be asking for Arbor day next. I don't know anyone that gets their birthday off as a paid vacation.



My wife gets her birthday off at her job, she is in IT & full time employees get their B-days off but have to take it with in 30 days of their calendar Bday. Even then they complain they would rather have it as a personal day & be able to take it when ever they want. They are not in a union.

I do not get my Bday off & would be happy to get it & take it on or with in 3 days.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Falicy in this is that Toyota, etc does not have the number of retirees on the books as the Amerian companies, because they have not had as many employees in the US in their history.
That's what I said but maybe not clearly enough :)

[yavoon]

That's what I said but maybe not clearly enough :)

toyota doesn't run defined benefit plans.

[Willynowei]

The owners at least get us to pay for new Stadiums so we can watch the games on new fields with new facilities (while we pay with our own tax dollars) but I was wondering what the NFL Players Association does for us, the average NFL Fan?....

They buy flash cars, big houses, bling bling and home electronics.

That adds to aggregate production of the US which in turn improves the growth rate of the US economy. lol Hilarious! ;D

[orinjkrush]

gotta think in more than 2 dimensions here.

owners only care about profits.

players only care about salarys (5 year average career)

fans only care about sunday afternoons.

like car dealerships...

make money,

make quota

gimme my wheels.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

They buy flash cars, big houses, bling bling and home electronics.

That adds to aggregate production of the US which in turn improves the growth rate of the US economy. lol Hilarious! ;D

Now there's someone who understands how our economy works. Simple isn't it.

[loborugger]

Funny thing how that works.

Standard of living increase = higher wages = higher operating costs = higher priced goods = less buying power for your higher wages.

Only idiots dont get it.

Unions grew out of the abuse of labor during the first 100 years of industrialization. Think about it... poor people who couldnt afford to lose a job actually gathered against the employer's will to join together and take on the boss. And those bosses employed thugs to enforce their wills.

Unions fought for 10 and then 8 hour work days. They fought for minimum wages. They fought for child labor laws. They fought for safe working conditions.

There was a fire in a NY textile plant where 100s of women died... and why did they die? Because they were chained to their equipment to get a "full" days work outta them. Major corporations created "company towns" that basically extracted from the employee everything they earned. You lived in a company house... eat food bought at the company store... wore clothes from there, too. All purchased at grossly inflated prices.

However, I think the Labor Unions have come a long ways. Now they have crooked bosses and want something for nothing.

Somewhere between the desire of capital to grind its workers into the ground for nothing and the modern unions desire to get a millionaires wage for 2 hours of work is the happy medium...

Balance in all things.

Alec, you are 100 percent right in one thing... higher wages = higher operating costs = higher priced goods = less buying power for your higher wages.

Worse yet - a nice union job that pays a living wage here in the US will soon finds its way to India, Malaysia, or some other place where people are completely satisfied to work 12 hours a day for 5 bucks. The American standard of living can not sustain itself forever.

[orinjkrush]

corporate greed trumps union demands in spades every time. throughout history. to say that union salaries drive product costs without corporate intervening strategy is frankly naive.

[yavoon]

corporate greed trumps union demands in spades every time. throughout history. to say that union salaries drive product costs without corporate intervening strategy is frankly naive.

corporate greed by in large assumes risk. its easy to explain to an investor(though he may not like it) that the company is no longer competitive and his 200 million dollar investment is now worth 50. it is however quite a bit harder to explain a similar lack of funding to a union.