A soldier's report from Iraq: Ten Good Things

[Bob's your Information Minister]

This guy is a friend of mine. I thought this was a pretty cool list.

Since it was questioned about whether or not I had perished by roadside bomb in another thread, and combined with the basic negativity about Iraq, I decided to post a few good things that I've expirienced since I've been here.


1. Our platoon was placed in charge of what was considered one of the most dangerous and violent sections of Baghdad, since our platoon put boots onto the ground in late Dec/early January attacks against our guys have dropped alomst 80% according to the British guys we work with.


2. The local Iraqis have come to like alot of us, we've become a familiar sight patrolling through virtually every neighborhood, we also get out of the humvees and frequently talk to everyone from store owners to random people on the street.


3. We hand out soccer balls, ALOT of ****ing soccer balls. The kids love the damned things and we pick some kids that look like they need them (ones who are playing with old ones that barely look like they'll last) alot of the parents seem appreciative of us helping their kids out.


4. We stopped at the equivilant of a coffee shop and the Iraqis there acted like the cast of Cheers, greeting us and offering us hits from the Hookah they had (it had black licorice stuff in it according to the three guys who smoked a bit) pictures were taken.


5. The Public Order Brigades (POB) that are predominantly Shi'ite Muslims were reported to have abused their authority with the local populace (which is comprised of Sunni, Shi'ite, and Christians). We vowed to speak with the POB and did so. We've not had large scale reports of POB acting out of turn in our area in a little while now, they know that our platoon is watching them.


6. We've assisted in helping Mosques protect themselves, supplying them with C-Wire which they use to block off the section of road in front of the Mosques so no VBIEDs are placed in front of the Mosques to damage them or hurt the people that pray there. As far as I know, the Innams (or the ones who run the Mosques in their abscence) have been very appreciative of these acts and our show that we care about their protection.


7. Due to the amount of trust our Platoon has with some of the populace we've been slowly getting intel about insurgents that we've not had before, intel that apparently, will be put to good use soon.


8. We've had massive gatherings where we've spoken to literally two hundred Iraqis at once, not once have these gatherings grown violent or anti-American in fact, it seems that many Iraqis have apparently walked away from them with the idea that SOMEONE gives a **** about what goes on in their neighborhood.


9. We bought bread from a local bakery the other day, to give you an idea of how signifigant this was, local business refused to sell to Americans for fear of insurgent reprisal when we first arrived.


10. Our platoon gives out our Company Commander's cell phone number and told that if they need assistance or wish to give us intel, to call that number. This has improved our standing with the locals and contributed towards the trust factor that we've been trying to build.

[Rascal]

Cool.

Yeah the good news coming from Iraq doesn't make good news so you rarely hear about it from our outstanding media.

[RaiderH8r]

I've heard very similar good news stories from my buddy in Ramadi. I keep telling him he's an evil american a--hole and to start acting like it. The news here says so, Michael Moore says so, Dustin Hoffman says so, Arianna Huffington says so, ALL of those guys can't be full of sh!t...can they?

[Bronx33]

Excellent news bob my cousin just got back from his 2nd tour and told me similar stories, alot of good is being done it's just not being reported.

[Crushaholic]

Excellent thread, Bob. There ARE good things happening in Iraq, but the media feels good news won't sell. Thinking about it, they are probably right. I just wish they would report it from time to time...

[DBruleU]

Wait, I'm confused...LABS told me that it's all doom and gloom...who do I believe? You know he was in the military at one point...::)

[bendog]

Excellent thread, Bob. There ARE good things happening in Iraq, but the media feels good news won't sell. Thinking about it, they are probably right. I just wish they would report it from time to time...
???????????? For over a year all that was reported was how we were rebuilding. Dissent was verbotten. I think the picture we have is fairly accurate. The troops are doing their best, and most iraqi's prolly don't hate americans, but they don't like each other. Their concept about democratic representation is not the same as ours. The troops would rather be home than be nationbuilding around a bunch of exsunniarmytypes and al queda.

[DBruleU]

???????????? For over a year all that was reported was how we were rebuilding. Dissent was verbotten. I think the picture we have is fairly accurate. The troops are doing their best, and most iraqi's prolly don't hate americans, but they don't like each other. Their concept about democratic representation is not the same as ours. The troops would rather be home than be nationbuilding around a bunch of exsunniarmytypes and al queda.

I'm sure they'd like to be home...I'd like to have them home as well. But that doesnt mean they dont see the need, and good they are doing there. The point is that we dont hear any of this being reported here at home at all. When you tunr on the news at night, any network, you dont hear this kind of stuff.

[Crushaholic]

???????????? For over a year all that was reported was how we were rebuilding. Dissent was verbotten. I think the picture we have is fairly accurate. The troops are doing their best, and most iraqi's prolly don't hate americans, but they don't like each other. Their concept about democratic representation is not the same as ours. The troops would rather be home than be nationbuilding around a bunch of exsunniarmytypes and al queda.

Of course, they would actually like to be at home. That's human nature. However, I've talked with a few people who have returned from Iraq. It's not quite the quagmire the media would prefer people believe.

[bendog]

Right the media is out to destroy the militayr and georgw bush.

The people I've talked to say its a bunch of bull****. My kid's science teacher's husband has gotten two tickets cause he's driving in the middle of the road, fast. Been back 4 weeks.

[DBruleU]

Right the media is out to destroy the militayr and georgw bush.

The people I've talked to say its a bunch of bull****. My kid's science teacher's husband has gotten two tickets cause he's driving in the middle of the road, fast. Been back 4 weeks.
You dont think they are. You think they praise the military and the good they do? I dont think so. They love to paint an ugly picture.

Two tickets where? Driving in baghdad? I'm not sure where you are going with that...

[Bronx33]

You dont think they are. You think they praise the military and the good they do? I dont think so. They love to paint an ugly picture.

Two tickets where? Driving in baghdad? I'm not sure where you are going with that...


He means his friend was used to driving in the middle to avoid IED bombs and is having a tough time adjusting, kinda funny if you ask me.

[DBruleU]

He means his friend was used to driving in the middle to avoid IED bombs and is having a tough time adjusting, kinda funny if you ask me.

Oh ok, makes more sense.

[bendog]

The problem with the liberal media conspiracy story is that it fails when one looks back to late winter/early spring 2002 and the failure to report the suspect intelligence on womd. People were in a patriot ferver and didn't want to hear nay sayers. Now, the worm has turned so to speak, and people really don't want pro-stay the course stuff. It's not the media leading people, it's the media reporting to people want they want to hear. It's about selling ads.

[Bronx33]

The problem with the liberal media conspiracy story is that it fails when one looks back to late winter/early spring 2002 and the failure to report the suspect intelligence on womd. People were in a patriot ferver and didn't want to hear nay sayers. Now, the worm has turned so to speak, and people really don't want pro-stay the course stuff. It's not the media leading people, it's the media reporting to people want they want to hear. It's about selling ads.


The truth and fricken shame.

[Crushaholic]

The problem with the liberal media conspiracy story is that it fails when one looks back to late winter/early spring 2002 and the failure to report the suspect intelligence on womd. People were in a patriot ferver and didn't want to hear nay sayers. Now, the worm has turned so to speak, and people really don't want pro-stay the course stuff. It's not the media leading people, it's the media reporting to people want they want to hear. It's about selling ads.

It IS about selling ads. However, you can't honestly believe that the media doesn't have an influence on public opinion. They could just as easily take a cue from Bush saying that progress is being made and go out and find those type of stories.

[bendog]

Progress is being made when oil production and electricity production and gnp are all less than they were before the invasion? I saw an admin apologist saying we should be impressed that Iraq isn't having a full civil war when they are suffering a 9-11 level attack every week?

Sure, the troops are able to police areas and saddam's goons aren't taking people off the street. The troops have cleaned up schools and mosques. But the political solution to the insurgency is failing. Violence is escalating. Cheney is asked "why didn't you anticipate the insurgency," and he answers "you can't anticipate everything." What's the effect of that on a viewer? To me, it's you god damn idiot how many orphans have you caused?

The media can push one story over another but there is a certain level of rationality. They can't just make something up that isn't true.

[Spider]

Here is the thing , Most democrats know the Militarty is trying to do good , what we struggle with is , not enough good going on to validate this invasion , no amount of good news will validate Bush and his misuse of the oval office to get revenge ......... you guys on the right want to spin this about the troops , and how the media wont report the good , whern civil war is about to break out and we invaded Iraq on a lie ......... So ONCE AGAIN THIS ISNT ABOUT GOOD , THIS IS ABOUT A FúCKING MORON IN OFFICE INVADING A COUNTRY BASED ON A LIE ............ Do you get it yet ?

[Bronx33]

Here is the thing , Most democrats know the Militarty is trying to do good , what we struggle with is , not enough good going on to validate this invasion , no amount of good news will validate Bush and his misuse of the oval office to get revenge ......... you guys on the right want to spin this about the troops , and how the media wont report the good , whern civil war is about to break out and we invaded Iraq on a lie ......... So ONCE AGAIN THIS ISNT ABOUT GOOD , THIS IS ABOUT A FúCKING MORON IN OFFICE INVADING A COUNTRY BASED ON A LIE ............ Do you get it yet ?

I get and i understand GWB is a baboon but the fact remains that we are there and have commited to helping out the region do you think dropping everything right this minute and pulling out would be wise?

[Spider]

I get and i understand GWB is a baboon but the fact remains that we are there and have commited to helping out the region do you think dropping everything right this minute and pulling out would be wise?
I dont know , 1 thing I do know is you cant force freedom on those that wont fight for it , commited ? well we did screw everything up , but now is spiraling out of our control , has been realy ........ But then you and me are not there , so it is easy for us to say stay the course keep fighting , when we are not doing the fighting .......... Hell we are not even scraficing, tell me have you seen 1 victory garden ? hell most dont even know what that is ..... Afghanistan I was all behind , that was the right move ....... But it is clear to me that all of those that voted for Bush put our country second , put our way of life second behind the republican party , they didnt vote for the best intrest of America , they voted for the best intrest of thier religion ,or sucking the dícks of big companies ........ Thats why we are in the shít storm we are in now

[GonzoLays]

The media is not liberal for the ten thousandth time. A liberal media would have NEVER supported a war. NEVER! A liberal media would be singing the praises of anti war activists, they would have countless anti-war "experts" giving their views and they sure as hell wouldn't be apologists when the main reason for war, WMD, was never found.

Its not that hard to understand. Liberal Media = Anti-War Propaganda Did that happen? Nope.

So how is the media liberal? Someone explain that to me.

[Rigs11]

Wait, I'm confused...LABS told me that it's all doom and gloom...who do I believe? You know he was in the military at one point...::)
All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things? LOL Turn on the news, read the paper. Hell I'm sure you can find the latest report from the pentagon that states that none of the iraqi soldiers can fight without US support.Yeha yeah I know it's the liberal media.No it's not all doom and gloom, but if you're boasting about bread and soccer handouts as some sort of accomplishment you must be dripping with the kool aid.

[ant1999e]

I dont know , 1 thing I do know is you cant force freedom on those that wont fight for it , commited ? well we did screw everything up , but now is spiraling out of our control , has been realy ........ But then you and me are not there , so it is easy for us to say stay the course keep fighting , when we are not doing the fighting .......... Hell we are not even scraficing, tell me have you seen 1 victory garden ? hell most dont even know what that is ..... Afghanistan I was all behind , that was the right move ....... But it is clear to me that all of those that voted for Bush put our country second , put our way of life second behind the republican party , they didnt vote for the best intrest of America , they voted for the best intrest of thier religion ,or sucking the dícks of big companies ........ Thats why we are in the shít storm we are in now
Change takes time. Democracy is a huge change for these people. They don't even understand what it means. They have been oppressed for soo many years. If in the end they choose not to accept democracy , then at least we gave them a chance. It's easy for you to say pull out and let all the hard work and effort they puy in go to waste because you aren't putting in all that hard work. As far as your judgement on those who voted for bush, what other choice did we have? John Kerry? He didn't have a clue. He didn't have a plan for Iraq let alone any other problem the country was facing.

Look the dems lost 2 elections because they lost touch with Clinton. He was there ticket. They were scrambling to come up with ideas when gore lost because he distanced himself form clinton. Don't blame bush or those who voted for him for him being in office. Blame the democrats.

[ant1999e]

All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things? LOL Turn on the news, read the paper. Hell I'm sure you can find the latest report from the pentagon that states that none of the iraqi soldiers can fight without US support.Yeha yeah I know it's the liberal media.No it's not all doom and gloom, but if you're boasting about bread and soccer handouts as some sort of accomplishment you must be dripping with the kool aid.
God forbid we have a positive conversation about Iraq. Sorry we hurt your feelings.:unamused:

[Rigs11]

Change takes time. Democracy is a huge change for these people. They don't even understand what it means. They have been oppressed for soo many years. If in the end they choose not to accept democracy , then at least we gave them a chance. It's easy for you to say pull out and let all the hard work and effort they puy in go to waste because you aren't putting in all that hard work. As far as your judgement on those who voted for bush, what other choice did we have? John Kerry? He didn't have a clue. He didn't have a plan for Iraq let alone any other problem the country was facing.

Look the dems lost 2 elections because they lost touch with Clinton. He was there ticket. They were scrambling to come up with ideas when gore lost because he distanced himself form clinton. Don't blame bush or those who voted for him for him being in office. Blame the democrats.
Maybe we should have asked them if they wanted democracy before going in.Hell Pakistan is a dictatorship but your buddy Dubya was all grins the other day.

[ant1999e]

All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things? LOL Turn on the news, read the paper. Hell I'm sure you can find the latest report from the pentagon that states that none of the iraqi soldiers can fight without US support.Yeha yeah I know it's the liberal media.No it's not all doom and gloom, but if you're boasting about bread and soccer handouts as some sort of accomplishment you must be dripping with the kool aid.
Or are you mad because someone mentioned your brokeback mountain buddy?

[ant1999e]

Maybe we should have asked them if they wanted democracy before going in.Hell Pakistan is a dictatorship but your buddy Dubya was all grins the other day.
Yeah, we should have invaded and then just left them to fend for themselves. Mabye we should have introduced communism to them.:thumbs:

[Spider]

Change takes time. Democracy is a huge change for these people. They don't even understand what it means. They have been oppressed for soo many years. If in the end they choose not to accept democracy , then at least we gave them a chance. It's easy for you to say pull out and let all the hard work and effort they puy in go to waste because you aren't putting in all that hard work.
I see so we keep spending money on Haliburton , keep linnig thier pockets with money and keep our troops in harms way ......... Bottom line is , you cant give freedom to people who wont fight for it , but they dont seem to have a problem fighting for thier religion ....... Not that hard of a picture to see ....

As far as your judgement on those who voted for bush, what other choice did we have? John Kerry? He didn't have a clue. He didn't have a plan for Iraq let alone any other problem the country was facing. And Bush has done what so far ? did what before the election ? Thought so .....Untill someone proves different , people voted for Bush not for love of country , but for love of Religion and Haliburton .......

Look the dems lost 2 elections because they lost touch with Clinton. He was there ticket. They were scrambling to come up with ideas when gore lost because he distanced himself form clinton. Don't blame bush or those who voted for him for him being in office. Blame the democrats.
Some more of that made up history from a liberal media I guess , Republicans took control of the house and senate in 1994 ......... facts are a bítch .....

[Rigs11]

God forbid we have a positive conversation about Iraq. Sorry we hurt your feelings.:unamused:
Black and white? You must be a republican.Has nothing to do with wether it's positive or not. I was simply replying to Dbrule's post where he was giddy as a schoolboy because some poster told him his friend told him that they were handing out bread and soccerballs.Try to keep up.

[Spider]

Yeah, we should have invaded and then just left them to fend for themselves. Mabye we should have introduced communism to them.:thumbs:
Communism they can handle , much like the system they are used to , this is why we put Saddam in power in the first place ..........And why not let them fend for themselfs ? they are over 18

[Rigs11]

Yeah, we should have invaded and then just left them to fend for themselves. Mabye we should have introduced communism to them.:thumbs:
OMFG! Are you serious?LOL How about not having invaded at all?Can you grasp such a thing?

[Rigs11]

Or are you mad because someone mentioned your brokeback mountain buddy?
Yawn.. Those brokeback jokes are getting old.You gay-hating repubs need to come up with some better stuff. Can't you go back to talking about Clinton's wiener or something?

[RaiderH8r]

All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things? LOL Turn on the news, read the paper. Hell I'm sure you can find the latest report from the pentagon that states that none of the iraqi soldiers can fight without US support.Yeha yeah I know it's the liberal media.No it's not all doom and gloom, but if you're boasting about bread and soccer handouts as some sort of accomplishment you must be dripping with the kool aid.
http://www.geocities.com/bootyplease/yakovsmirnoff.jpg
In Soviet Russia you don't eat bread...you wait in line for 8 hours with the hope of getting bread.

But yeah, getting food to people probably isn't as much of an accomplishment as you'd like. Ol' Billy Jeff couldn't even get that far in Somalia before he disgraced our guys with his cowardice.

[Spider]

But yeah, getting food to people probably isn't as much of an accomplishment as you'd like. Ol' Billy Jeff couldn't even get that far in Somalia before he disgraced our guys with his cowardice.
Didnt the Iraqis already have food before we invaded ? thats kinda like taking your car to the shop for tires , and the master Mechanic comes out and says, good news your turn signals still work !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rigs11]

http://www.geocities.com/bootyplease/yakovsmirnoff.jpg
In Soviet Russia you don't eat bread...you wait in line for 8 hours with the hope of getting bread.

But yeah, getting food to people probably isn't as much of an accomplishment as you'd like. Ol' Billy Jeff couldn't even get that far in Somalia before he disgraced our guys with his cowardice.
Can you explain? i thought we were talking about Iraq.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Rigs11
All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things? Turn on the news, read the paper. Hell I'm sure you can find the latest report from the pentagon that states that none of the iraqi soldiers can fight without US support.Yeha yeah I know it's the liberal media.No it's not all doom and gloom, but if you're boasting about bread and soccer handouts as some sort of accomplishment you must be dripping with the kool aid.

Earning their trust is an accomplishment.

[Spider]

Earning their trust is an accomplishment.
Do we realy have thier trust ?

[Bronx33]

Do we realy have thier trust ?

Neither you or me can anwser that a 100% but after talking with my cousin who was there he felt they were earning the trust talking with these people daily.

[enjolras]

To think that everything is as bad as the media reports (or as good as these soldiers say) is foolish. The media today grew out of Vietnam and watergate... where media was transformed from a news gatherer/reporter to a watchdog. Media outlets see themselves as some kind of check on whoever happens to be in charge, and their 'reporting' reflects that. The goal isn't to find out what's going on, it's to find something wrong with whatever is going on.

Rather pathetic really...

There is no doubt Iraq hangs in some kind of balance right now. There are (naturally) really good things happening.. there are to many bright and fundamentally good people (soldiers) involved. There are also some really bad things happening as there are a lot of really bad people involved as well.

This is why these types of operations aren't won in a week... they take years of dedication and building of trust, infrastructure, and understanding to accomplish. In the meantime it is a constant tug of war to make the types of gains this platoon has made, but on a much wider scale throughout the whole country.

[bendog]

I'm not at all convinced that a maj of these people want a republican govt, and that's really the problem. The ONLY faction that was committed to a central govt was the baath. The Kurds openly say they demand to have the option to opt out at a future date. The shiia are fragmented. Sistini says he supports some form of democracy with the shiia having the dominant vote. Sadr and Jalabi are allied with Iran. A govt allied to Iran would be unacceptable to the sunni ... and the kurds, unless they were getting arms to get after the Turks.

Unless we can qwell the violence with Sadr having death squads inside the new Iraq police force, and the baath and al queda targeting shiia clerics and civilians, at SOME point the people will want the militias will force a partitioning. And, there's no sign, or showing of how, we can stop the violence. Now if the sunni and kurds could find agreement on splitting the oil dollars .... but that issue was supposed to be resolved two three weeks ago.

[Spider]

Neither you or me can anwser that a 100% but after talking with my cousin who was there he felt they were earning the trust talking with these people daily.
Ok , I think a better way to put it is everyday we are getting rid of the distrust , and that is a start .......

[ant1999e]

I see so we keep spending money on Haliburton , keep linnig thier pockets with money and keep our troops in harms way ......... Bottom line is , you cant give freedom to people who wont fight for it , but they dont seem to have a problem fighting for thier religion ....... Not that hard of a picture to see ....

And Bush has done what so far ? did what before the election ? Thought so .....Untill someone proves different , people voted for Bush not for love of country , but for love of Religion and Haliburton .......


Some more of that made up history from a liberal media I guess , Republicans took control of the house and senate in 1994 ......... facts are a bítch .....
What does the repubs taking control of the house and senate have to do with the dems loosing both presidential elections? And facts are a bitch?

[ant1999e]

Black and white? You must be a republican.Has nothing to do with wether it's positive or not. I was simply replying to Dbrule's post where he was giddy as a schoolboy because some poster told him his friend told him that they were handing out bread and soccerballs.Try to keep up.

I don't limit myself to one side or the other. So no i'm not a republican. I have a free will to choose for myself. My point is we were having a positive discussion on progress in Iraq and you come in to piss on everyones parade. You must be a bitter democrat still bitching because you lost (it was stolen)the election.

[ant1999e]

Yawn.. Those brokeback jokes are getting old.You gay-hating repubs need to come up with some better stuff. Can't you go back to talking about Clinton's wiener or something?
I don't hate homosexuals. Don't have a problem with them. I just think it is cute the way you come to his defense whenever his name is brought up.:kiss:

[ant1999e]

OMFG! Are you serious?LOL How about not having invaded at all?Can you grasp such a thing?
Get over it. We're there. You can't keep living in the past. You lost the election and we are in Iraq. Deal with it and move on with your life.

[bendog]

Get over it. We're there. You can't keep living in the past. You lost the election and we are in Iraq. Deal with it and move on with your life.
Be sure to tell that to the wounded and those with dead/crippled parents/spouses.

[Bronx33]

Ok , I think a better way to put it is everyday we are getting rid of the distrust , and that is a start .......


Sure, something of this magnitude isn't going to happen over night.

[ant1999e]

Be sure to tell that to the wounded and those with dead/crippled parents/spouses.
Unfortunately people get hurt and die in war. Alot of Americans died when we liberated Europe in WW2. If we would have surrendered when people started dying, where would we be now? I am in the military. I have been to the middle east. If I am called to do my job, then that's what I do. I may be wounded or killed, but I accepted that fact when I joined.

[Rigs11]

I don't limit myself to one side or the other. So no i'm not a republican. I have a free will to choose for myself. My point is we were having a positive discussion on progress in Iraq and you come in to piss on everyones parade. You must be a bitter democrat still b****ing because you lost (it was stolen)the election.
Yup that's it, I'm bitter. You know what I'm bitter about? The 2000 plus soldiers that have been killed,the thousands that have been maimed, the 30000 plus civilians that have been "liberated", the billions that have been spent. But hey if you want to cheerlead about what some guy's friend said was progress go right ahead.

[Rigs11]

Get over it. We're there. You can't keep living in the past. You lost the election and we are in Iraq. Deal with it and move on with your life.
Well as long as you realize that we're in Iraq because we lost the election to a moron, I guess that's progress.

[Rigs11]

I don't hate homosexuals. Don't have a problem with them. I just think it is cute the way you come to his defense whenever his name is brought up.:kiss:
Who's defense? I was replying to your weak attempt at humor with that brokeback comment.

[ant1999e]

Who's defense? I was replying to your weak attempt at humor with that brokeback comment.
With the bbm comment was asking if you were defending your partner. Keep up!!!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things?

You're an asshole for calling me a liar.

[ant1999e]

Yup that's it, I'm bitter. You know what I'm bitter about? The 2000 plus soldiers that have been killed,the thousands that have been maimed, the 30000 plus civilians that have been "liberated", the billions that have been spent. But hey if you want to cheerlead about what some guy's friend said was progress go right ahead.
The cheerleading is for the troops, not for the pres. But you have such a closed mind you can't make the distinction. Like I said, we were having a happy discussion and you felt the need to piss all over it. Piss on all the genuine hard work the troops are doing in Iraq. A friend of a friend is in Iraq. Are you? He is sending back some good news. Do you really care about the troops? It sure doesn't seem like it when you piss on the hard work they accomplish. I think you use the troops as an excuse to bitch and complain about bush.

[ant1999e]

All excited because a Chiefs fan told you his "friend" told him all these things? LOL Turn on the news, read the paper. Hell I'm sure you can find the latest report from the pentagon that states that none of the iraqi soldiers can fight without US support.Yeha yeah I know it's the liberal media.No it's not all doom and gloom, but if you're boasting about bread and soccer handouts as some sort of accomplishment you must be dripping with the kool aid.
Thanks for the good news Bob. You may be a chiefs fan, but you are an American first.:USA:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Wait, I'm confused...

Tell us something we don't already know.

LABS told me that it's all doom and gloom...who do I believe?

The "logic" employed by the few remaining Dim Son supporters goes sort of like this:

An intruder forces his way into your home, kills your wife and kids, ransacks your belongings, steals your valuables, and generally lays waste to your home and its furnishings.

But hey - at least he wiped his feet on the mat before he came in - that's gotta count for something, right? You ain't got nothing to b*tch about, right?

(And anyone who doesn't see it this way is just part of some 'liberal media' conspiracy.)

:pity:

[Spider]

What does the repubs taking control of the house and senate have to do with the dems loosing both presidential elections? And facts are a b****?
Has everything to do with it , those congress men campaigned for Bush , just like if Dems had the house and senate .........

[Spider]

Sure, something of this magnitude isn't going to happen over night.
and I didnt expect it over night , but a year and a half .......... still have that image of Bush on the ship , banner mission accomplished............This war has been mismanaged and propped up from the get go

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/military-idiot.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...........This war has been mismanaged and propped up from the get go

And everyone knows this - except the goobers who watch...http://www.bartcop.com/cavuto-eddie-munster.jpg

[Spider]

And everyone knows this - except the goobers who watch...http://www.bartcop.com/cavuto-eddie-munster.jpg
LOL fox news ................

[DBruleU]

LOL fox news ................

Yes, the highest rated cable news network...what a joke!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LOL fox news ................

Yeah buddy.

All this stuff about a civil war is just so much librul propaganda and a cheap attempt to make you believe freedom ain't on the march and that we shouldn't stay the course.

Mission accomplished!

Onward Christian soldiers!

http://www.bartcop.com/monkey-800-phone.jpg

[Spider]

Yes, the highest rated cable news network...what a joke!and they continue on sliding ........... and yes fox news is a joke ........Biggest one pulled in america yet

[Spider]

Yeah buddy.

All this stuff about a civil war is just so much librul propaganda and a cheap attempt to make you believe freedom ain't on the march and that we shouldn't stay the course.

Mission accomplished!

Onward Christian soldiers!
Fox news is out there , I think fox is still tops with Idiots and people over 72 years of age though

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yes, the highest rated cable news network...what a joke!

The joke is that some people actually believe Faux News is news.

"Highest rated cable news network?"

Last I checked, Faux's ratings were in a free fall.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush has obviously had more than his share of problems the last 5 years. It seems that we have witnessed one disaster after another and a whole list of scandals. In addition, Bush has had to follow one of the greatest
presidents of all time in terms of accomplishments. Bill Clinton gave us unprecedented peace and prosperity for 8 years. He never sent a man into battle that didn't come back alive. Clinton presided over the greatest
economy in U.S. history. Records were set for the Dow and NASDAQ. He created over 20 million new jobs. He gave us a record budget surplus. During his presidency we could truly be proud to be American.

George W. Bush lied us into an unnecessary war. Bush condoned illegal torture. He showed unparalleled incompetence for victims of Katrina. Bush condoned spying on Americans. He let Arabs take over many of our ports.
Bush turned a record budget surplus into a record deficit. He has negligible new job creation in 5 years. His war designed to enrich war profiteers and big oil companies is turning into a Civil War. How many more or our troops will die for nothing? Bush's approval rating is 34% and heading south.

It's time to end the madness know as the Bush presidency.
We need to impeach the incompetent and corrupt president.

Greg Whitman
Columbus, Ohio

:thumbsup:

[ant1999e]

Ladies and gentelman, the three stooges. Curtsey ladies.:curtsey:

[Rigs11]

You're an a-hole for calling me a liar.
Your a dumbass for thinking I did. Look in the past we have posted articles on soldiers who have said how bad the war was going and posters on here have discredited the source, hell some of you war supporters discredit any news source or link that explains how bad things are.Your source was some "friend", that's all fine and dandy but don't expect me to completely beleive it because you posted it.

[Rigs11]

The cheerleading is for the troops, not for the pres. But you have such a closed mind you can't make the distinction. Like I said, we were having a happy discussion and you felt the need to piss all over it. Piss on all the genuine hard work the troops are doing in Iraq. A friend of a friend is in Iraq. Are you? He is sending back some good news. Do you really care about the troops? It sure doesn't seem like it when you piss on the hard work they accomplish. I think you use the troops as an excuse to b**** and complain about bush.
At least I don't use the troops as an expandable commodity anytime someone questions why they are dying there.I'm pissing on your discussion because every news outlet here and overseas is saying that Iraq is on the brink of war, soldiers are dying, and yet I'm supposed to be all fuzzy inside because someone's "friend" says otherwise?Ha!

[ant1999e]

Nobody asked you to believe anything. Why did you feel the need to piss on our enjoyable conversation? You bitter election losing a-holes always feel the need to try and make everyone else as miserable as you. Get a life.

[Spider]

Ladies and gentelman, the three stooges. Curtsey ladies.:curtsey:
Ok why dont you tell us why we are in Iraq , and how the good deeds makes everything all ok.............

[ant1999e]

At least I don't use the troops as an expandable commodity anytime someone questions why they are dying there.I'm pissing on your discussion because every news outlet here and overseas is saying that Iraq is on the brink of war, soldiers are dying, and yet I'm supposed to be all fuzzy inside because someone's "friend" says otherwise?Ha!

Unfortunately people get hurt and die in war. Alot of Americans died when we liberated Europe in WW2. If we would have surrendered when people started dying, where would we be now? I am in the military. I have been to the middle east. If I am called to do my job, then that's what I do. I may be wounded or killed, but I accepted that fact when I joined.

[Rigs11]

Nobody asked you to believe anything. Why did you feel the need to piss on our enjoyable conversation? You bitter election losing a-holes always feel the need to try and make everyone else as miserable as you. Get a life.
Well I could say no one asked you to be a cheerleader. This is a forum, get a clue.Yeah we're just bitter because of the election,where do you come uo with this crap?

[Spider]

Nobody asked you to believe anything. Why did you feel the need to piss on our enjoyable conversation? You bitter election losing a-holes always feel the need to try and make everyone else as miserable as you. Get a life.
And why is it you Reps want us to believe everything is ok ? whats wrong cant take bad news ?
Cant admit the guy you voted for is 1 step ahead of a special ride on a yellow short Bus ?
I dont know how things are in LALA land , but here in the real world , we have out of control spending , a War we realy didnt need , Our bordersare more open then a 24 hour Wal Mart , and our #1 Enemy Bin Ladin has more videos out then Paris Hilton ........ tell me again about the upside

[Rigs11]

Unfortunately people get hurt and die in war. Alot of Americans died when we liberated Europe in WW2. If we would have surrendered when people started dying, where would we be now? I am in the military. I have been to the middle east. If I am called to do my job, then that's what I do. I may be wounded or killed, but I accepted that fact when I joined.
Are you comparing this war to WW2?Just asking before I reply.

[Rigs11]

And why is it you Reps want us to believe everything is ok ? whats wrong cant take bad news ?
Cant admit the guy you voted for is 1 step ahead of a special ride on a yellow short Bus ?
I dont know how things are in LALA land , but here in the real world , we have out of control spending , a War we realy didnt need , Our bordersare more open then a 24 hour Wal Mart , and our #1 Enemy Bin Ladin has more videos out then Paris Hilton ........ tell me again about the upside
More videos than paris hilton Hilarious! That's some funny chit

[ant1999e]

Ok why dont you tell us why we are in Iraq , and how the good deeds makes everything all ok.............

Nobody says the good deeds make everything o.k. But does it hurt to talk about them? You guys use the troops for your argument and talk about them dying and the mistakes they make, how they kill innocent people. Bob was sharing some good stuff he got from a friend. You guys couldn't stand it. Started talking **** right away. It makes me wonder, what troops are you concerned about in Iraq. If is't the Americans, why do you have such a problem talking about a few good deeds they are doing. I can't speek for all the members of the U.S. military, but it pissed me off that we couldn't have a simple conversation about some good things these guys are doing without the bush bashing crew pissing on it all. Thios could have been a good thread, but you guys made sure that wouldn't happen.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Nobody asked you to believe anything. Why did you feel the need to piss on our enjoyable conversation? You bitter election losing a-holes always feel the need to try and make everyone else as miserable as you. Get a life.
Hilarious!
You must have voted for idiot in charge. Amazing how only about 30% of Americans will admit that these days.

[TheDave]

You have to admit this is pretty funny... 2000+ dead, 10's of thousands maimed/injured, Billions of $ wasted .

But hey we gave out some soccer balls :thumbs:

I'm glad that your Friend has seen positives in this war... I truly hope he sees a lot more and does not end up one of the above statistics.

[ant1999e]

Are you comparing this war to WW2?Just asking before I reply.
No. Just stating that it's a war. Unfortunately people die. Regardless if we should be there we are. Before you reply, this thread was about some good things that are happening in Iraq. Not saving the world things. Why try to discredit the soldier who sent Bob this info? Why not let the conversation go on peacefully?

[Spider]

Nobody says the good deeds make everything o.k. But does it hurt to talk about them? You guys use the troops for your argument and talk about them dying and the mistakes they make, how they kill innocent people. Bob was sharing some good stuff he got from a friend. You guys couldn't stand it. Started talking **** right away. It makes me wonder, what troops are you concerned about in Iraq. If is't the Americans, why do you have such a problem talking about a few good deeds they are doing. I can't speek for all the members of the U.S. military, but it pissed me off that we couldn't have a simple conversation about some good things these guys are doing without the bush bashing crew pissing on it all. Thios could have been a good thread, but you guys made sure that wouldn't happen.
talking about the good the troops are doing in a war we are not supposed to be in the first place ........See I support the troops , to me that is not putting them in a situation like Iraq , Afghanistan was a just and right war , we had a bone to pick with the Taliban and Bin ladin ........ We had to go in , there was no other way , thats why we dont have all the neg or postive news .........Now the bottom line is no amount of good deeds will erase what happened in Iraq , we meddled into a part of the world we do not understand ....... For example you or me , are in our house and someone comes by to inspect our house and see what we are doing , we will tell them where to go and how long it should take them to get there ......... In Iraq , well the M.E. it dont work that way , they dont want freedom , they want thier religion to dictate what they do or dont do ......... We are very lucky to be Americans , but we have to remember not everyone can handle freedom !!!!!!!!!!
Our troops are the best we have , letting them toil in Iraq seems to be a waste , we kicked áss , but we cant nation build ..........

[ant1999e]

And why is it you Reps want us to believe everything is ok ? whats wrong cant take bad news ?
Cant admit the guy you voted for is 1 step ahead of a special ride on a yellow short Bus ?
I dont know how things are in LALA land , but here in the real world , we have out of control spending , a War we realy didnt need , Our bordersare more open then a 24 hour Wal Mart , and our #1 Enemy Bin Ladin has more videos out then Paris Hilton ........ tell me again about the upside

Nobody was trying to convince anybody of anything. Bob was sharing some feel good stories he got from a friend who is proudly serving his country. You guys just felt the need th piss on it. And by the way I'm not a republican. I didn't vote for Bush. You can put that ammo away.

[Spider]

Nobody was trying to convince anybody of anything. Bob was sharing some feel good stories he got from a friend who is proudly serving his country. You guys just felt the need th piss on it. And by the way I'm not a republican. I didn't vote for Bush. You can put that ammo away.
it wasnt pissing on the troops , it is pissing on the reasons and where they are at

[ant1999e]

it wasnt pissing on the troops , it is pissing on the reasons and where they are at
This thread spoke of nothing political until you guys entered. Nothing about why they are there, who is right or wrong. Just sharing good personal stories. Stories from loved ones who are there. Sharing good experiences in Iraq. We all know there probably isn't very many of them. Why you all felt the need to piss on that i don't understand. A little selfish if you ask me.

[DBruleU]

it wasnt pissing on the troops , it is pissing on the reasons and where they are at

The problem with that is, this thread was started as a testement to some good things that are happening there. You can piss on that stuff in another thread, in here, we praise what this soldier has to say...which are good things.

[baja]

OK It's nice we can now buy bread in Bagdad and bring a smile to kids with a new soccer ball.

[DBruleU]

OK It's nice we can now buy bread in Bagdad and bring a smile to kids with a new soccer ball.

it is...:)

Those kids didn't get those types of things 4 years ago. And even if those kids grew up to be proessional soccer players, and didnt do so hot, Uday and the other Saddam son, would have beaten them, like they had many times.

So it is a good thing.

[baja]

Course it has cost well over 2,000 lives and over 2 trillion dollars to
put ourselves in that position of benevolence.

I think some of you have no clue about the severity of what we have gotten ourselves into for no real reason.

If you think I am wrong than please enlighten me as to the reason why we find ourselves in the position of handing out soccer balls???

<b> Why are we there?

[ant1999e]

OK It's nice we can now buy bread in Bagdad and bring a smile to kids with a new soccer ball.
You see, now that wasn't so hard.

[spdirty]

it is...:)

Those kids didn't get those types of things 4 years ago. And even if those kids grew up to be proessional soccer players, and didnt do so hot, Uday and the other Saddam son, would have beaten them, like they had many times.

So it is a good thing.


They did more than just beat em.

[DBruleU]

They did more than just beat em.

Oh I know.

I just didn't want baja to have to hear that kind of stuff.

[ant1999e]

Course it has cost well over 2,000 lives and over 2 trillion dollars to
put ourselves in that position of benevolence.

I think some of you have no clue about the severity of what we have gotten ourselves into for no real reason.

If you think I am wrong than please enlighten me as to the reason find ourselves in the position of handing out soccer balls???

Why don't you start your own thread about how the troops are wasting their time and should all stop giving out soccer balls and eating Iraqi bread. This thread was a positive on the troops. Why you feel the need to make it negative is beyond me. There was no need.

[baja]

it is...:)

Those kids didn't get those types of things 4 years ago. And even if those kids grew up to be proessional soccer players, and didnt do so hot, Uday and the other Saddam son, would have beaten them, like they had many times.

So it is a good thing.

Dude what was the real cost of that soccar ball, please tell me that (beyond the 14 dollars the ball it self costs of course)

[ant1999e]

Dude what was the real cost of that soccar ball, please tell me that (beyond the 14 dollars the ball it self costs of course)
That wasn't the point of this thread idiot.

[DBruleU]

Dude what was the real cost of that soccar ball, please tell me that (beyond the 14 dollars the ball it self costs of course)

Goodness gracious.

For the love of Peete, just go to bed.

[ant1999e]

Goodness gracious.

For the love of Peete, just go to bed.
Who's peete?

[baja]

Why don't you start your own thread about how the troops are wasting their time and should all stop giving out soccer balls and eating Iraqi bread. This thread was a positive on the troops. Why you feel the need to make it negative is beyond me. There was no need.

During the holocaust there were many wonderful human interest stories should only focus on then and ignore the atrocities going on all around.

We should have never been there. It was a huge mistake and to ignore that an only focus on a small feel good story about a soccer ball hand out is irresponsible beyond words. Tell the mom that got the body bag about the soccer balls and the looming civil war and see if there is a feel good in there for her.

[DBruleU]

Who's peete?

A hypothetical person.

[ant1999e]

During the holocaust there were many wonderful human interest stories should only focus on then and ignore the atrocities going on all around.

We should have never been there. It was a huge mistake and to ignore that an only focus on a small feel good story about a soccer ball hand out is irresponsible beyond words. Tell the mom that got the body bag about the soccer balls and the looming civil war and see if there is a feel good in there for her.
So start your own thread and start it off with this happy story. Is it bad that a couple of people want to share some personal stories on here? Why do you have to disrespect this troop and his friends and family by pissing on what he had to say?

[ant1999e]

A hypothetical person.
I know.

[ant1999e]

Well I love peete so I'm going to bed.

[spdirty]

During the holocaust there were many wonderful human interest stories should only focus on then and ignore the atrocities going on all around.

We should have never been there. It was a huge mistake and to ignore that an only focus on a small feel good story about a soccer ball hand out is irresponsible beyond words. Tell the mom that got the body bag about the soccer balls and the looming civil war and see if there is a feel good in there for her.


OK, so from what I gather is, we should never focus on anything good in this war because you think it was wrong...but since the Afghan war was justified, tell me baja, if troops gave out soccer balls or someone wanted to post a positive human interest story about what they did in Afghanistan, would you at least post something positive about it and stop bitching?

[baja]

So start your own thread and start it off with this happy story. Is it bad that a couple of people want to share some personal stories on here? Why do you have to disrespect this troop and his friends and family by pissing on what he had to say?

I hear what you are saying. I really am glad there some positive things happening there, God knows we need a feel good story. I just think the magnitude of the error of being there is so very great that giving the allusion of progress being made and using that "progress" as a talking point to support us being there is painfully short sighted. Iraq is on the verge of all out civil war. Do you know what that means? It means that after 2000 lives and 2 trillion borrowed dollars we will leave the place much worse than what we found it. And that was no easy accomplishment.

[baja]

OK, so from what I gather is, we should never focus on anything good in this war because you think it was wrong...but since the Afghan war was justified, tell me baja, if troops gave out soccer balls or someone wanted to post a positive human interest story about what they did in Afghanistan, would you at least post something positive about it and stop b****ing?

Look it's nice there are some good stories coming out of this mess, OK.

I just think it is important to keep it all in perspective.

[DBruleU]

Look it's nice there are some good stories coming out of this mess, OK.

I just think it is important to keep it all in perspective.
haha, you mean...not too much good....ya know, dont want to get the wrong impression. Perspective. pfft.

[DBruleU]

This is one of the only good stories I've seen posted in this forum. Everything else posted that has to do with Iraq is posted by Spider, and LABF, and we all know how those stories turn out. I think its been kept in "perspective" in this forum.

I cant believe you dont call yourself a liberal. I dont know what else you fall under. Why do liberals hate being called liberals?

[baja]

This is one of the only good stories I've seen posted in this forum. Everything else posted that has to do with Iraq is posted by Spider, and LABF, and we all know how those stories turn out. I think its been kept in "perspective" in this forum.

I cant believe you dont call yourself a liberal. I dont know what else you fall under. Why do liberals hate being called liberals?

Define liberal

[DBruleU]

Define liberal

Pessimistic...

[spdirty]

Define liberal

One whos mind is so open, their brain falls out.

[baja]

Pessimistic...

That's what i thought, good night.

[DBruleU]

That's what i thought, good night.

Night baja.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ladies and gentelman, the three stooges.

Lemme guess: That would be you and the other two Dim Son supporters left on the OM? :clown:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

During the holocaust there were many wonderful human interest stories should only focus on then and ignore the atrocities going on all around.

Exactly.

The cognitive dissonance in which these people have to engage in order to continue to prop up the Boy King and his Iraq debacle is astounding sometimes.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Hilarious!
You must have voted for the idiot in charge. Amazing how only about 30% of Americans will admit that these days.

It's even more amazing that they have the nerve to poke their heads into this forum (let alone act all uppity.) :D

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/k/bush_abramoff_mission.jpg

[Crushaholic]

http://www.winningiraq.com/page/page/2583503.htm

This is a book I would be interested in reading. The website is one big solicitation, but it's all about the positive things that are happening in Iraq. I'm sorry if you feel we shouldn't have been there in the first place, but we are there and this is all about the good we are bringing to Iraq and her people...:USA:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The book of right-wing fairy tales.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm sorry if you feel we shouldn't have been there in the first place, but we are there...

Translation:

"Don't hold Bush accountable for misleading us into Iraq or for his subsequent handling of the situation."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A vision of a better future...

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/h/g/bush_defeated_resigns.jpg

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Your a dumbass for thinking I did. Look in the past we have posted articles on soldiers who have said how bad the war was going and posters on here have discredited the source, hell some of you war supporters discredit any news source or link that explains how bad things are.Your source was some "friend", that's all fine and dandy but don't expect me to completely beleive it because you posted it.
You're still an asshole.

My friend has documented his decision to join the army, the process of getting accepted, boot camp, getting assigned and going to Iraq all on another forum.

He's in the 101st airborne.

He's taken mailing addresses so he can send us letters.

He's not a liar. He's a good guy and good soldier.

[baja]

You're still an a-hole.

My friend has documented his decision to join the army, the process of getting accepted, boot camp, getting assigned and going to Iraq all on another forum.

He's in the 101st airborne.

He's taken mailing addresses so he can send us letters.

He's not a liar. He's a good guy and good soldier.

I'm sure your friend is a good guy and a good solider and all of the things that he reports are real. I was a enlisted man of low rank too so I know first hand how very little of the big picture we grunts actually know. Je is on a need to know basis (as it should be) so his view of what is happening there is very limited.

[Spider]

This thread spoke of nothing political until you guys entered. Nothing about why they are there, who is right or wrong. Just sharing good personal stories. Stories from loved ones who are there. Sharing good experiences in Iraq. We all know there probably isn't very many of them. Why you all felt the need to piss on that i don't understand. A little selfish if you ask me.Nothing political ? the very reason they are there is political , so now we get to shut of the real world and focus on a few feel good stories ?
real world dont work that way bro , you just cant turn off all the bad things and focus on a few fell good things , and pretend the bad isnt there , and you wonder why Bush knew he could pull this bulshít and get away with it ? I will bítch and moan untill our troops are back , I wont focus on a few good stories and pretend everything is ok , or that somehow the good is out wieghing the bad ............

[baja]

Nothing political ? the very reason they are there is political , so now we get to shut of the real world and focus on a few feel good stories ?
real world dont work that way bro , you just cant turn off all the bad things and focus on a few fell good things , and pretend the bad isnt there , and you wonder why Bush knew he could pull this bulshít and get away with it ? I will bítch and moan untill our troops are back , I wont focus on a few good stories and pretend everything is ok , or that somehow the good is out wieghing the bad ............

Spider were you originally for this war and if so what made you change your mind?

[Spider]

The problem with that is, this thread was started as a testement to some good things that are happening there. You can piss on that stuff in another thread, in here, we praise what this soldier has to say...which are good things.
Gee Barney the dinosour on political ethics .............gee i wonder if any of those 2000+ dead soldiers handed out soccer balls , candy or bought Iraqi bread ?

[Spider]

Spider were you originally for this war and if so what made you change your mind?you are right , I was for the iraqi war , in fact I was on Bush's side for along time but here is the reasons .......
Bush Bullshítting us ........ it didnt take long to connect the dots , and see this Iraq war was nothing more then a misuse of the oval office on a personal vendetta ,and heput American troops in harms way ............ I hate that son of a bítch for that

[baja]

you are right , I was for the iraqi war , in fact I was on Bush's side for along time but here is the reasons .......
Bush Bullshítting us ........ it didnt take long to connect the dots , and see this Iraq war was nothing more then a misuse of the oval office on a personal vendetta ,and heput American troops in harms way ............ I hate that son of a bítch for that

The thing that offers hope for this country is guys like you Spider that will pay attention to what's going on and adjust their support accordingly. Good for you and good for America.

Bush's approval rating is 34% so a lot of people are seeing through this mad man.

His fear tactic is losing it's hold on people. I continue to say the port issue will be his Waterloo, kind of ironic really.

[Spider]

The thing that offers hope for this country is guys like you Spider that will pay attention to what's going on and adjust their support accordingly. Good for you and good for America.

Bush's approval rating is 34% so a lot of people are seeing through this mad man.

His fear tactic is losing it's hold on people. I continue to say the port issue will be his Waterloo, kind of ironic really.Thanks ........ I hope everyone finaly sees through Bush and wake the hell up , Bush is destroying our country , pissing on the constitution when ever he sees fit ......... Bush once said , this would be easier if this was a , dictatorship , at first I took it as a joke , now I think the sawed off little bastard was serious .....................

[bendog]

My local paper's had a series on the "rebuilding effort" in Iraq. I don't see how to access past installments but here's the latest. Generally, they've been "pro" for the nation building

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/OPINION/603050311/1200

But, if they cannot even get their parliment to meet, because the PM has ties to sadr's death squads in the police, I don't see a reason for optimism.

[Spider]

My local paper's had a series on the "rebuilding effort" in Iraq. I don't see how to access past installments but here's the latest. Generally, they've been "pro" for the nation building

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/OPINION/603050311/1200

But, if they cannot even get their parliment to meet, because the PM has ties to sadr's death squads in the police, I don't see a reason for optimism.
death squads , just becuase they follow the wrong teachings of Islam , hell yeah we can bring democracy to these people , wasnt Sadr one of our most wanted@ one time ? Murder wasnt it ? Felujiah ....... so many lies out of Iraq hard to remember who is who

[bendog]

I do believe we said we were forcing Sadr's militia to disarm. Where's the republican guard when you need em? Aptly named, btw.

[ant1999e]

Nothing political ? the very reason they are there is political , so now we get to shut of the real world and focus on a few feel good stories ?
real world dont work that way bro , you just cant turn off all the bad things and focus on a few fell good things , and pretend the bad isnt there , and you wonder why Bush knew he could pull this bulshít and get away with it ? I will bítch and moan untill our troops are back , I wont focus on a few good stories and pretend everything is ok , or that somehow the good is out wieghing the bad ............
Nobody is trying to turn off the bad things spider. The fact is Bob was sharing a personal letter from a friend that is serving his country. Letting him know that he is doing some good things (good things in his mind). Nobody was using this as a political tool. How can you say you support the troops when you have a problem with any good news of what they may be doing. Nobody is suggesting that giving out soccer balls justifies the 1000's of American troops who died. We were just trying to give some credit to them by sharing some personal stories. You are so closed minded that whenever you see anything positive about the troops in Iraq, you assume it is giving bush credit. This had nothing to do with bush or politics. Only to do with a soldiers letter to a friend from home. Would it have been too much to ask to respect that and not turn it into another of the many bush is the devil the war is wrong threads?

[Spider]

Nobody is trying to turn off the bad things spider. The fact is Bob was sharing a personal letter from a friend that is serving his country. Letting him know that he is doing some good things (good things in his mind). Nobody was using this as a political tool. How can you say you support the troops when you have a problem with any good news of what they may be doing. Nobody is suggesting that giving out soccer balls justifies the 1000's of American troops who died. We were just trying to give some credit to them by sharing some personal stories. You are so closed minded that whenever you see anything positive about the troops in Iraq, you assume it is giving bush credit. This had nothing to do with bush or politics. Only to do with a soldiers letter to a friend from home. Would it have been too much to ask to respect that and not turn it into another of the many bush is the devil the war is wrong threads?
well you are still hung up on the we hate everything aspect , you dont get my point despite serveral post explaining it , so were does this leave us ? I dont like the fact that they are there , and no matter how many soccer balls they hand out wont change that .... you are in the mind set , that handing out soccer balls is good news ........ I guess we will agree to disagree

[bendog]

Having some good things happen I suppose is good. But unless bushii comes up with a strategy for avoiding civil war, it won't mean ****e, and so far he ain't had a clue. So, while I'm happy for somebody who got a good thing, I'm seeing people down here whose families have really been ****ed over by this adventure in nation building.

[ant1999e]

well you are still hung up on the we hate everything aspect , you dont get my point despite serveral post explaining it , so were does this leave us ? I dont like the fact that they are there , and no matter how many soccer balls they hand out wont change that .... you are in the mind set , that handing out soccer balls is good news ........ I guess we will agree to disagree
I don't want us in Iraq. I can easily get sent there. No way in hell I want to go. If I was there I would rather you Spider support me by telling the good stories I send back to you rather than write it off as nothing important. Nobody likes war. I wish we could pack up and leave. egardless of how you feel about us being there, it doesn't hurt the troops morale if you spread some feel good stories about the good things they do. Not for bush, but for them.:USA: Regardless we can agree to disagree.

[Meck77]

Bob you and I don't agree on much at all but thanks for sharing your friends thoughts.

Ripping apart a feel good story sent home from a soldier in Iraq does nothing to help this country or the moral of our troops period.

[Spider]

I don't want us in Iraq. I can easily get sent there. No way in hell I want to go. If I was there I would rather you Spider support me by telling the good stories I send back to you rather than write it off as nothing important. Nobody likes war. I wish we could pack up and leave. egardless of how you feel about us being there, it doesn't hurt the troops morale if you spread some feel good stories about the good things they do. Not for bush, but for them.:USA: Regardless we can agree to disagree.
I dont write off thier good deeds as nothing , just think they could do good deeds in New Orleans for example ............ And I hope you dont go to Iraq , I mean that , but if you did go , you could rest assured people like me would do everything we can to get you back here as soon as possible ............and hopefully you can tell us your own good stories ......

[ant1999e]

Bob you and I don't agree on much at all but thanks for sharing your friends thoughts.

Ripping apart a feel good story sent home from a soldier in Iraq does nothing to help this country or the moral of our troops period.
You just summed up what I.ve been trying to say for 2 days.

[ant1999e]

I dont write off thier good deeds as nothing , just think they could do good deeds in New Orleans for example ............ And I hope you dont go to Iraq , I mean that , but if you did go , you could rest assured people like me would do everything we can to get you back here as soon as possible ............and hopefully you can tell us your own good stories ......
Thanks.

[Spider]

I guess it boils down to this , When i hear the word Iraq , right away I think of Bush , then I think of the Joke he made about looking for WMD ,This whole war has been nothing but a joke to Bush , I think all of us understand that the troops didnt send themselfs there , the troops didnt start this war , Bush did , and for people like me , none of the good news comming out of Iraq will ease the pain of the fallen , wounded , the only news I will concider good , is the troops comming home , to a heros welcome , a pat on the back , and vetrans benefits getting a boost .

[Meck77]

You just summed up what I.ve been trying to say for 2 days.

Well this is a tough situation no matter how you look at it. I really haven't been around the omane much in 2006 but one thing I realized after being away from the war forum portion is this. The conversation about the war in here does not change at all. The same propoganda (on both sides of the issue) that gets spit out on TV ends up getting regurgitated in here.

Actually it's even worse because you have 489,000 different websites that get cut and pasted in here.

The justification for the war is flawed. I've stated my reasons why I think we got sucked into it and I don't believe our Middle East allies did us any favors when it comes to that. At the same time I see no benefit to people pounding the internet cutting and pasting every road side bombing link to this forum to prove that the war isn't going well.

I'm to the point that I believe there are a few people around here that really could care less about our troops in Iraq and are more concerned with seeing Bush impeached.


I could care less about Bush. I've said my bit on him. My concern lies with the war effort and seeing our troops get home safe. I support the war how I can but you won't see me bad mouthing their efforts. I like many of you have friends there and I believe the things they tell me more than twisted polls that get pasted here.

I've spent plenty of time in political forums in the past and really got away from this particular one the last couple years. I remember why after being active in here recently.

Instead of Bullshiating in here about the war I think I need to refocus some of my time elsewhere in the real world to make some small bit of difference. Not to disrespect anyone inparticular but nothing said in this forum makes one bit of ****ing difference when it comes to the war.

10,000 more posts from ANY of us in here isn't going to get a father, a brother, a sister home any faster unless we decided to work together in some capacity. ANY Capacity. Personally attacking and slamming one another results in NOTHING.

I've suggested that several times and it's never gotten off the ground. Not a problem. It was just a few years ago when I suggested maybe me and another Broncos fan could get together for a tailgate. It really didn't work at all until one other Broncos fan thought it would be a good idea. I've met plenty of great people since then. I realize being a Broncos fan and agreeing on what to do with the Iraq war are two different things but I just can't help thinking we are all wasting alot of postive energy in here beating one anothers view points up when I think we all want the same thing?

Is there not one damn thing we could all agree on to help this situation just a little bit?

[ant1999e]

I can tell you from experience that complaining about bush on this site will do nothing to help the troops in Iraq. BEWARE a feel good story follows. Not a story form a friend of a friend. This is my story.

Two summers ago, I was deployed to U.A.E. I wasn't getting bombed or anything, but it sucked being away from my family. The only thing we really had to look forward to was a letter or every once in a while a care package from home. That would make our week. But once we recieved boxes of girlscout cookies. A girlscout troop from Michigan sent us a few boxes of cookies. They sent letters with them thanking us for our sacrifice. This truly brought tears to my eyes. These girls cared enough to do this for us.

The point is if you really care for the troops then show them. Here are a few sites where you can support the troops by sending care packages, letters, calling cards, donate flier miles or whatever you can do. I challenge all of you on this site who claim you care for the troops to do something about it. I guarentee if you were to send them a letter thanking them, it would help with their morale. If you have some frequent flier miles not using i'm sure they could use them to go home on leave and see their family. I have 2 troops i work with in Iraq. 1 in the Green Zone right now. We email and send care packages to let them know we care. So I challenge you to step up or shut up.

http://www.heromiles.org/
http://adoptaplatoon.org/new/index.htm
http://www.marineparentsinc.com/
http://www.uso.org/pubs/8_20_10417.cfm

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I can tell you from experience that complaining about bush on this site will do nothing to help the troops in Iraq.

It's dishonest to label legitimate criticism of Bush's policies as "complaining."

It's also dishonest to suggest that criticism of Bush's policies and support for the troops are incompatible.

In fact, as civilians, our greatest responsibility to the men and women of our armed forces is to question our elected officials and to hold them accountable for their decisions to send our troops into harm's way.

If you really want to support the troops, then demand accountability for the man who is sending them into harm's way for reasons that have been proven to be lies.

[baja]

It's dishonest to label legitimate criticism of Bush's policies as "complaining."

It's also dishonest to suggest that criticism of Bush's policies and support for the troops are incompatible.

In fact, as civilians, our greatest responsibility to the men and women of our armed forces is to question our elected officials and to hold them accountable for their decisions to send our troops into harm's way.

If you really want to support the troops, then demand accountability for the man who is sending them into harm's way for reasons that have been proven to be lies.

How so many fail to see this glaring common since point will never cease to amaze me. Is it something in the water?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Is it something in the water?

How 'bout something you mix with water? ;)

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/a8/Republican-koolaid.jpg

[ant1999e]

It's dishonest to label legitimate criticism of Bush's policies as "complaining."

It's also dishonest to suggest that criticism of Bush's policies and support for the troops are incompatible.

In fact, as civilians, our greatest responsibility to the men and women of our armed forces is to question our elected officials and to hold them accountable for their decisions to send our troops into harm's way.

If you really want to support the troops, then demand accountability for the man who is sending them into harm's way for reasons that have been proven to be lies.
Typical reply from you. All talk. Pick and choose from my post with only what you want to spin. Demand accountibility in one hand and **** in another. See where it gets you. Nowhere so far. And you aren't doing anything for the troops. I'm suggesting you do something that will really make a difference in the lives of the people you claim to be so concerned about. I'm sure you will do nothing but comtinue with your propiganda. So change the word complain my post to criticize. If you spent half the time you take CRITICIZING bush and do some real good for the troops it would be one thing. Well at least one of your hands are warm.

[baja]

Typical reply from you. All talk. Pick and choose from my post with only what you want to spin. Demand accountibility in one hand and **** in another. See where it gets you. Nowhere so far. And you aren't doing anything for the troops. I'm suggesting you do something that will really make a difference in the lives of the people you claim to be so concerned about. I'm sure you will do nothing but comtinue with your propiganda. So change the word complain my post to criticize. If you spent half the time you take CRITICIZING bush and do some real good for the troops it would be one thing. Well at least one of your hands are warm.

So with that logic you see someone being hit on the head with a hammer over and over so you kindly wipe away the blood streaming into his eyes while comforting him but fail to mention that if the hammer were to stop he just might feel a whole lot better

[ant1999e]

So with that logic you see someone being hit on the head with a hammer over and over so you kindly wipe away the blood streaming into his eyes while comforting him but fail to mention that if the hammer were to stop he just might feel a whole lot better

So stop the war and bring the troops home then.

[ant1999e]

So with that logic you see someone being hit on the head with a hammer over and over so you kindly wipe away the blood streaming into his eyes while comforting him but fail to mention that if the hammer were to stop he just might feel a whole lot better

And with your logic you watch him being hit with the hammer and complain about how the hammer is being swung or ask why he is being hit. Not helping him in anyway. The hammer is swinging he is getting hit, you can't stop the hammer. The least you can do is wipe the blood.

[baja]

So stop the war and bring the troops home then.

OK START IMMEDIATELY

[ant1999e]

OK START IMMEDIATELY
The same thing that happens as with your other posts. Nothing.

[baja]

And with your logic you watch him being hit with the hammer and complain about how the hammer is being swung or ask why he is being hit. Not helping him in anyway. The hammer is swinging he is getting hit, you can't stop the hammer. The least you can do is wipe the blood.

I VOTED FOR GORE AND KERRY

i offer my arguments against the war often

i do what i can

in this case i support the troops being home with their families

[baja]

The same thing that happens as with your other posts. Nothing.

who do you think had a big hand in ending the
Viet Nam war, it was millions of americans voicing their displeasure for that war

[ant1999e]

who do you think had a big hand in ending the
Viet Nam war, it was millions of americans voicing their displeasure for that war
Yeah, and they pissed all over the troops just like you do here.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah, and they pissed all over the troops just like you do here.

So wanting to end Bush's lie (Iraq attack & invasion) is pissing on the troops. Brilliant!

[baja]

Yeah, and they pissed all over the troops just like you do here.

I might as well try and have a discussion with a marshmallow. I have said numerous times that I think the troops building bridges with the Iraqi people is a good thing but the bigger thing is while the are handing out those soccer balls there is a very dangerous grown swell rising that will likely lead to civil war something that was foretold by the experts long before this false war started. Two questions for you, why are we there really and what do you thnk will happen to our troops and those newly liberated Iraqis if civil war does break out?

[Rigs11]

Typical reply from you. All talk. Pick and choose from my post with only what you want to spin. Demand accountibility in one hand and **** in another. See where it gets you. Nowhere so far. And you aren't doing anything for the troops. I'm suggesting you do something that will really make a difference in the lives of the people you claim to be so concerned about. I'm sure you will do nothing but comtinue with your propiganda. So change the word complain my post to criticize. If you spent half the time you take CRITICIZING bush and do some real good for the troops it would be one thing. Well at least one of your hands are warm.
This coming from a guy who continually blows off the killing of our soldiers for a bullsh1t war, as simply "people die in wars". You should take your message on the road and go visit some of the families that have lost loved ones or hell better yet get your ass back to Iraq, and really support the troops.

[bendog]

I support more mindless killing and maiming of American soldiers because I am a Republican, dammit! Support the troops!!

[Spider]

the logic is odd no doubt ............

[bendog]

Yeah, but I suppose if one thinks that building a democracy, as bushii says we're doing, is possible ... then more casualties are not a waste.

[Spider]

Yeah, but I suppose if one thinks that building a democracy, as bushii says we're doing, is possible ... then more casualties are not a waste.
I wish that was the case , but these people dont want democracy , they want thier sect of Reigion to rule ..........

[bendog]

I agree. Actually I think a maj of sunni and shiia don't care too much. They just want peace, jobs, and a better life for their kids. But there's a geopolitical struggle between Iran, al queda, former baath that bushii unleashed.

[Spider]

I agree. Actually I think a maj of sunni and shiia don't care too much. They just want peace, jobs, and a better life for their kids. i think it runs deeper then this , they want the Koran to determine what is a good life what isnt ........


But there's a geopolitical struggle between Iran, al queda, former baath that bushii unleashed.
and now the Kurds want ot go after turkey ..........

[bendog]

I agree that the maj of both the sunni and shiia want to have some kind of veto of laws by religious leaders. But, Jordan essentially has that. In Egypt the govt is limited on practical grounds. The same in Algeria.

And yes, the Kurds do not want to be in an Iraq state, and yes they want to have a go at the turks, and with the oil money they can prolly finance a renewed terrorist attack on the Turks.

[ant1999e]

So wanting to end Bush's lie (Iraq attack & invasion) is pissing on the troops. Brilliant!
Brilliant. Come in at the end of a tread and put your 2 cents in.

[ant1999e]

I might as well try and have a discussion with a marshmallow. I have said numerous times that I think the troops building bridges with the Iraqi people is a good thing but the bigger thing is while the are handing out those soccer balls there is a very dangerous grown swell rising that will likely lead to civil war something that was foretold by the experts long before this false war started. Two questions for you, why are we there really and what do you thnk will happen to our troops and those newly liberated Iraqis if civil war does break out?

O.K. I apologize for the pissing comment. The point of this thread was a few good thingds one platoon is doing. My problem is people who hate bush come in and disrespectfully hijack it. It was uncalled for and unnecessary. Nobody likes the war. That doesn't mean we can't tell some good stories about the troops. Nobody at the begining of this thread was claiming these troops were saving the world.

[bendog]

actually, that's not true. go back to the top, and you'll see posts re: we're doing a lot of good but the media isn't reporting, and things arent' that bad, and maybe this will work out if the media will let it.

[ant1999e]

This coming from a guy who continually blows off the killing of our soldiers for a bullsh1t war, as simply "people die in wars". You should take your message on the road and go visit some of the families that have lost loved ones or hell better yet get your ass back to Iraq, and really support the troops.
Let see, I serve in the military. I get stationed in the middle east. I send care packages to the troops I have in Iraq. What do you do for the troops besides whine on this web site? And that does no good. Did you even look at any of the sites I posted to help the troops. I doubt it. Here they are again.

http://www.heromiles.org/
http://adoptaplatoon.org/new/index.htm
http://www.marineparentsinc.com/
http://www.uso.org/pubs/8_20_10417.cfm

[baja]

O.K. I apologize for the pissing comment. The point of this thread was a few good thingds one platoon is doing. My problem is people who hate bush come in and disrespectfully hijack it. It was uncalled for and unnecessary. Nobody likes the war. That doesn't mean we can't tell some good stories about the troops. Nobody at the begining of this thread was claiming these troops were saving the world.

I had asked you two questions;

Two questions for you, why are we there really and what do you thnk will happen to our troops and those newly liberated Iraqis if civil war does break out?

I would like to get your take on these.

[ant1999e]

I had asked you two questions;



I would like to get your take on these.
I truly believ Saddam had WMD's. Think he moved them to Syria. We know he had them at one point. I think the Russians and Chinese were helping him get the stuff. Now I don't know if that is the real reason bush invaded. Could have been for his own reasons. As far as the troops leaving, we will not be completely out of Iraq for many years. We will have a few bases there for stratigic reasons.
I'm sure our gov. will do everything in it's power to prevent it, but if civil war does break out I'm sure we will start some what of a withdraw of troops. What else could we do? You asked me what I thought. That's what I gave you. My opinion. Don't mean ****.

[ant1999e]

actually, that's not true. go back to the top, and you'll see posts re: we're doing a lot of good but the media isn't reporting, and things arent' that bad, and maybe this will work out if the media will let it.
All they said was this stuff wasn't being reported. That is the truth.

[TheDave]

All they said was this stuff wasn't being reported. That is the truth.

to an extent your right... but is handing out soccer balls really news?

bomb going off killing 50+ is going to get the headlines. Can't blame the media for that.

[Rigs11]

Let see, I serve in the military. I get stationed in the middle east. I send care packages to the troops I have in Iraq. What do you do for the troops besides whine on this web site? And that does no good. Did you even look at any of the sites I posted to help the troops. I doubt it. Here they are again.

http://www.heromiles.org/
http://adoptaplatoon.org/new/index.htm
http://www.marineparentsinc.com/
http://www.uso.org/pubs/8_20_10417.cfm
So wait a minute, first you stated that the reason you got your panties in a bunch was because someone "highjacked" your thread, now you are bringing in what people do in their personal life to support the troops? Which one is it?So you send care packages to the troops and yet are ok when they come home in body bags because "people die in wars"? Nice.

[Rigs11]

I truly believ Saddam had WMD's. Think he moved them to Syria. We know he had them at one point. I think the Russians and Chinese were helping him get the stuff. Now I don't know if that is the real reason bush invaded. Could have been for his own reasons. As far as the troops leaving, we will not be completely out of Iraq for many years. We will have a few bases there for stratigic reasons.
I'm sure our gov. will do everything in it's power to prevent it, but if civil war does break out I'm sure we will start some what of a withdraw of troops. What else could we do? You asked me what I thought. That's what I gave you. My opinion. Don't mean ****.
Dubya did too. And yet they were never found. You mean to tell me that with all the billions of dollars that the US spends on satellites and other spying equpment, that saddam was able to move all those tons of WMD that Dubya said he had without us noticing?Hilarious!

[clarker]

Dubya did too. And yet they were never found. You mean to tell me that with all the billions of dollars that the US spends on satellites and other spying equpment, that saddam was able to move all those tons of WMD that Dubya said he had without us noticing?Hilarious!How did Bush get China, France and Germany to go along with the lie. They all were against going to war, but they all believed Iraq had WMD's. I don't buy that they were all just looking at the intel. from the U.S.

They have their own intelligence gathers and I think if they thought Iraq DID NOT have WMD's they would have said so. They didn't.

[baja]

How did Bush get China, France and Germany to go along with the lie. They all were against going to war, but they all believed Iraq had WMD's. I don't buy that they were all just looking at the intel. from the U.S.

They have their own intelligence gathers and I think if they thought Iraq DID NOT have WMD's they would have said so. They didn't.

France and Gremany did not sign off on attacking Iraq, they both wanted to give the inspectors more time

[TheDave]

We aren't really going back the the WMD's pond...are we?

[RaiderH8r]

to an extent your right... but is handing out soccer balls really news?

bomb going off killing 50+ is going to get the headlines. Can't blame the media for that.
If it bleeds, it leads. Soccer ball stories go in section E, page 13.

[TheDave]

If it bleeds, it leads. Soccer ball stories go in section E, page 13.

I don't like the media anymore than the rest of you... But in this case i can't blame them.

[clarker]

France and Gremany did not sign off on attacking Iraq, they both wanted to give the inspectors more timeI know that. Remember that part in my post where I said they were all AGAINST the war , but they believed that Iraq had WMD's. Sure they said they wanted more time for inspectors to do their work and be sure. I think they wanted a few more months to line their pockets with UN Oil for Food cash.

[ant1999e]

I know that. Remember that part in my post where I said they were all AGAINST the war , but they believed that Iraq had WMD's. Sure they said they wanted more time for inspectors to do their work and be sure. I think they wanted a few more months to line their pockets with UN Oil for Food cash.
Exactly$$$$$

[ant1999e]

So wait a minute, first you stated that the reason you got your panties in a bunch was because someone "highjacked" your thread, now you are bringing in what people do in their personal life to support the troops? Which one is it?So you send care packages to the troops and yet are ok when they come home in body bags because "people die in wars"? Nice.
Yoy see, the thread evolved and jumped topics. Thats what happens when it gets hijacked

[baja]

I know that. Remember that part in my post where I said they were all AGAINST the war , but they believed that Iraq had WMD's. Sure they said they wanted more time for inspectors to do their work and be sure. I think they wanted a few more months to line their pockets with UN Oil for Food cash.

You mean to tell me that France and Germany believing that Saddam had WMD were willing to let it ride solely to collect cash and just hope the unstable Saddam would not use those weapons. Most went along with the war because we were let to believe that Iraq had the weapons and were capable of a strike any day. And if you believe that France and Germany would take that incredibly foolish risk than tell me why is there not the smallest shred of evidence of any WMD.

[clarker]

You mean to tell me that France and Germany believing that Saddam had WMD were willing to let it ride solely to collect cash and just hope the unstable Saddam would not use those weapons. Most went along with the war because we were let to believe that Iraq had the weapons and were capable of a strike any day. And if you believe that France and Germany would take that incredibly foolish risk than tell me why is there not the smallest shred of evidence of any WMD.1. No, I don't think France, Germany, China and Russia's reasons for not going in with the U.S. and British were pure as the driven snow. They were all in that UN Oil for Food scandle and I do think they wanted to keep that cash cow alive. Do You believe in all the Bush started the war for his oil buddies stuff? If you do how hard is to believe that other countries leaders might be just as corrupt.

2. No way do I believe that any of those countries would use only the intell from the U.S. Especially Russia and China.

3. I think they all thought Iraq had WMD's or were close too it.

4. I think they were all wrong.

[bendog]

naw, they, France and Germany, knew el baradi and blix had shown there was no biol or nuke danger. They were still OK with destablizing Saddam cause he was a dangerous guy, but selling bushii's schtick to a population was only possible in America where the media were giving Rove bjs, and in Britian where the Poodle had no viable political opposition.

What Putin's deal was anybody knows. He's potentially as bad a stalin.

[Crushaholic]

God forbid there would be another 9/11, but I often think that's what it would take to convince some of you that there are still people who want to kill us just because of the freedom we enjoy...

[TheDave]

God forbid there would be another 9/11, but I often think that's what it would take to convince some of you that there are still people who want to kill us just because of the freedom we enjoy...

you're kidding... right?

[bendog]

Oh I think there are, they just weren't in Iraq until bushii invaded.

[Crushaholic]

you're kidding... right?

What? Do you think everything would be hunky dory in the world if we would only leave Iraq?LOL

[Spider]

God forbid there would be another 9/11, but I often think that's what it would take to convince some of you that there are still people who want to kill us just because of the freedom we enjoy...
??? I think most of us know we have enemys , and have has enemys for a long time , but what does that have to do with Iraq ?

[Spider]

What? Do you think everything would be hunky dory in the world if we would only leave Iraq?LOL
I think everything would be hunky dory , if we never entered Iraq and captured Bin Ladin ...........

[Crushaholic]

??? I think most of us know we have enemys , and have has enemys for a long time , but what does that have to do with Iraq ?

Hussein has never forgiven us for beating him back when he tried to invade Kuwait. We took him out (legitimate reason for going into Iraq) and we are fighting people loyal to Hussein and others who just don't like us. Iraq does not live in a bubble. We have enemies throughout the Middle East and that includes Iraq. We are also fighting opportunists who see unstability in the government and want to exert their power.

[Spider]

Hussein has never forgiven us for beating him back when he tried to invade Kuwait. We took him out (legitimate reason for going into Iraq) and we are fighting people loyal to Hussein and others who just don't like us. Iraq does not live in a bubble. We have enemies throughout the Middle East and that includes Iraq. We are also fighting opportunists who see unstability in the government and want to exert their power.
I see so why not invade Saudia Arabia ? Sudan ? Yeman? I dont give a rats áss if Saddam forgave us or not , he was nothing , and we are not just fighting people that liked Saddam , we are fighting people that dont want the American way of life in the Middle East ......... Basicaly you are going with the we are fighting them over there instead of here defense

[Crushaholic]

I think everything would be hunky dory , if we never entered Iraq and captured Bin Ladin ...........

This war is MUCH bigger than Bin Laden. He's the person who took credit for 9/11, but he has his lieutenants who could easily cause havoc when he's gone. This is not as simple as a murder case where you find a suspect, try him, and that's it. This battle is happening MANY years too late. Bush is actually DOING something about it...

[Crushaholic]

Basicaly you are going with the we are fighting them over there instead of here defense

Yes, I am. We are sending troops over there to fight the bad guys before they do more damage on American soil. Meanwhile, the Patriot Act is working to round up people already in America. Bush needs to do a better job at defending the borders, but I still contend he's doing a good job keeping us safe from terrorism.

[Spider]

This war is MUCH bigger than Bin Laden. He's the person who took credit for 9/11, but he has his lieutenants who could easily cause havoc when he's gone. This is not as simple as a murder case where you find a suspect, try him, and that's it. This battle is happening MANY years too late. Bush is actually DOING something about it...
LOL ........ that was funny ........ Bigger then Bin Ladin hey , big enough to get the boogey man himself Saddam ........ But what gets me is Saddam had nothing to do with the terrorist attack against us , Not to mention that taking out Saddam has done nothing in the war of terror but escalate it ........
Hell we could have invaded Mexico , Much closer troops can come home on the weekends, good food , and much easier to convert curency ..... in other words invading Iraq made as much sence as invading mexico ..... none .....

[Spider]

Yes, I am. We are sending troops over there to fight the bad guys before they do more damage on American soil. Meanwhile, the Patriot Act is working to round up people already in America. Bush needs to do a better job at defending the borders, but I still contend he's doing a good job ping us safe from terrorism.
LOL ... wow ....... and I guess that it never dawned on the terrorist to let America have Iraq and attack us over here while our Troops are in Iraq .....

[TheDave]

What? Do you think everything would be hunky dory in the world if we would only leave Iraq?LOL

You seriously think they executed 9/11 because of our "Freedom" Sorry, but that is laughable. There are a million and one reasons they are pissed at us... Some legit / some not. But our freedom?

I think that a talking point just got stuck in your head.

[Crushaholic]

LOL ... wow ....... and I guess that it never dawned on the terrorist to let America have Iraq and attack us over here while our Troops are in Iraq .....

That's why I mentioned the Patriot Act. It's a key piece of the puzzle and will attempt to keep an eye on activity going on in the United States. 9/11 caught everyone off guard. If the August 6th memo story is accurate, even the Bush administration didn't think it was possible terrorists could strike on our own soil. We're not going to make that same mistake twice. ALL enemies of the United States and her allies are on our radar screen...

[Spider]

That's why I mentioned the Patriot Act. It's a key piece of the puzzle and will attempt to keep an eye on activity going on in the United States. 9/11 caught everyone off guard. If the August 6th memo story is accurate, even the Bush administration didn't think it was possible terrorists could strike on our own soil. We're not going to make that same mistake twice. ALL enemies of the United States and her allies are on our radar screen...
well I think it is all Horseshít myself , the patriot act is a joke , while I agree we wont make the same mistakes twice , we will create new ones as we go along , making new laws does nothing , enforcing the ones we already had would have ...... but it is just like anything else , somthing happens lets pass a law instead of enforcing the ones we already have ....... All enemys are on our radar screen ? I doubt it , very seriously , and it still doesnt justify Iraq........... therecomes a time we need to quit living in fear , stop giving up our freedoms and act like Americans instead of a nation full of pússys ...........

[baja]

Oh I think there are, they just weren't in Iraq until bushii invaded.

And we have a winner.

This is the point Crush

attacking iraq made the world more dangerous not safer

GWB is world terrorist's greatest recruiter second place is not even close

[clarker]

I think everything would be hunky dory , if we never entered Iraq and captured Bin Ladin ...........I think you can argue that we would be better off if we didn't invade Iraq , but I think your being foolish if you believe that if we captured or Killed Bin Ladin would solve the problem of terrorism.

Of course the sooner that douche bag the better, but it won't make the problem go away. That is just wishfull thinking.

[Spider]

I think you can argue that we would be better off if we didn't invade Iraq , but I think your being foolish if you believe that if we captured or Killed Bin Ladin would solve the problem of terrorism.

Of course the sooner that douche bag the better, but it won't make the problem go away. That is just wishfull thinking.
I see so getting Bin Ladin wouldnt have made a difference ? I think it would have made a bigger difference , then letting Bin Ladin put out more Videos then People in LA following cops around after Rodney King beating ...........Hauling his áss out of a cave in cuffs would have shown the world we are serious .........

[clarker]

I see so getting Bin Ladin wouldnt have made a difference ? I think it would have made a bigger difference , then letting Bin Ladin put out more Videos then People in LA following cops around after Rodney King beating ...........Hauling his áss out of a cave in cuffs would have shown the world we are serious .........Or it could just make him a even bigger hero, but don't get me wrong I'm all for killing that guy. But you have to do things like sieze their cash, kill as many leaders as possible, improve our intelligence gathering methods ect.

I'm not saying that getting Bin Ladin wouldn't have helped, but if you think if we killed him today that all this would go away, then I think your being a bit naive. Perhaps I'm not reading you right, but it sounds like your saying that if we get Bin Ladin, then we can go back to pre 9/11 thinking. If I'm reading your wrong, then correct me. I'm not trying to be a jerk about, perhaps I am reading you wrong.

[Spider]

Or it could just make him a even bigger hero, but don't get me wrong I'm all for killing that guy. But you have to do things like sieze their cash, kill as many leaders as possible, improve our intelligence gathering methods ect.

I'm not saying that getting Bin Ladin wouldn't have helped, but if you think if we killed him today that all this would go away, then I think your being a bit naive. Perhaps I'm not reading you right, but it sounds like your saying that if we get Bin Ladin, then we can go back to pre 9/11 thinking. If I'm reading your wrong, then correct me. I'm not trying to be a jerk about, perhaps I am reading you wrong.
LOL yeah , you know damn well getting Bin Ladin was the key , still is the key , getting his paper work , laptops whatever , but if you think getting Bin Ladin isnt key , thats fine ..........

[baja]

How much has GWB actions strengthened the terrorist organizations around the world. Sure we had to take steps to protect our country but attacking Iraq was a patently bad idea.

[clarker]

LOL yeah , you know damn well getting Bin Ladin was the key , still is the key , getting his paper work , laptops whatever , but if you think getting Bin Ladin isnt key , thats fine ..........It will all end when we get Bin Ladin and we can all go back to living in dream land.;D

Of course getting Bin Ladin is big, but it will not end when or if we get him, no matter how much you want to believe it will.

[Spider]

It will all end when we get Bin Ladin and we can all go back to living in dream land.;D

Of course getting Bin Ladin is big, but it will not end when or if we get him, no matter how much you want to believe it will.
LOL your argument is ludicrous at best .........Bin Ladin is the genius , the mastermind , we taught him well ......... But docum..... oh hell why bother ...... your right , this agrument is too damn stupid to have

[clarker]

LOL your argument is ludicrous at best .........Bin Ladin is the genius , the mastermind , we taught him well ......... But docum..... oh hell why bother ...... your right , this agrument is too damn stupid to haveSo if we get Bin Ladin tonight, what in 3-4 hours all terrorism ends. (being a bit of smart a** there;D ). But if you really believe Al Quadi will end we get Bin Ladin fine by me. :thumbs:

[Rigs11]

How did Bush get China, France and Germany to go along with the lie. They all were against going to war, but they all believed Iraq had WMD's. I don't buy that they were all just looking at the intel. from the U.S.

They have their own intelligence gathers and I think if they thought Iraq DID NOT have WMD's they would have said so. They didn't.
Nice try, but the whole Syria excuse happened after numbnuts invaded Iraq. All those other countries had leaders with enough brains to let the inspectors due their jobs.

[Rigs11]

God forbid there would be another 9/11, but I often think that's what it would take to convince some of you that there are still people who want to kill us just because of the freedom we enjoy...
What repub pamphlet did you take that from?

[Rigs11]

Yes, I am. We are sending troops over there to fight the bad guys before they do more damage on American soil. Meanwhile, the Patriot Act is working to round up people already in America. Bush needs to do a better job at defending the borders, but I still contend he's doing a good job keeping us safe from terrorism.
And now for a real world translation: We are creating more and more terrosists in Iraq daily by being there.Meanwhile the Patriot Act is is ****ting all over the freedoms that make this country unique.Bush needs to 'start' doing something defending the borders, and our ports.

[clarker]

Nice try, but the whole Syria excuse happened after numbnuts invaded Iraq. All those other countries had leaders with enough brains to let the inspectors due their jobs.When did I say anything about Syria?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Nice try, but the whole Syria excuse happened after numbnuts invaded Iraq. All those other countries had leaders with enough brains to let the inspectors due their jobs.

:thumbs:

http://www.bartcop.com/toss-tax-turn.gif

[Crushaholic]

Bush needs to 'start' doing something defending the borders, and our ports.

I previously stated that I have a problem with Bush not being able to, or be willing to, defend our borders. That still doesn't shake my confidence that Bush is the right leader for our country...Nyah!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That still doesn't shake my confidence that Bush is the right leader for our country...Nyah!

Good thing you don't have to base your "confidence" on his actual record or job performance, eh?

[Rigs11]

I previously stated that I have a problem with Bush not being able to, or be willing to, defend our borders. That still doesn't shake my confidence that Bush is the right leader for our country...Nyah!
What will shake your confidence? An attack orchestrated by someone easily hopping the border? Or a weapon smuggled through one of the ports that he so strongly supports handing control to a mideastern firm? "leader"? :spit: You just made may day...

[bendog]

Our soldiers are getting blown up by IED that are built by former baath Iraqi army guys that NEVER attacked the US. The terrorists, ie suicide bombers, are attacking the iraqis directly becuase their goal is to create a civil war.

[Crushaholic]

What will shake your confidence? An attack orchestrated by someone easily hopping the border? Or a weapon smuggled through one of the ports that he so strongly supports handing control to a mideastern firm? "leader"? :spit: You just made may day...

That would possibly do it. Hopefully, it won't happen...