Mathias Kiwanuka, DE

[7bronco7]

Didn't he bench press just 17 reps of 225 lbs?

If so, wouldn't he drop completely out of the first round, and into the second round? If he is that weak, why waste a 1st round pick on him?

I'd rather draft Bunkley at DT, or draft Wimbley or Lawson as speedy DE's, than to waste a pick on Kiwanuka. Kiwi has bust written all over him. No dedication to get get stronger, and the reason why his shoulder hurts all the time, is because he gets tossed around and manhandled like a sack of potatoes when he went up against stronger opponents. We need a speed rusher guy on the DE, so why not try and get one.

I seem to recall that Trevor Pryce was also very weak. I don't think Trevor was dedicated to lifting weights either.

7bronco7.

[Clockwork Orange]

He can rush the passer, we need to upgrade the pass rush.

[SoCalBronco]

I will GLADLY welcome Kiwi into the Bronco fold at 22 or 29.

He got cheapshotted against Virginia this year and that probably slowed him a bit. But he is a damn good talent. 25 TFL and 11.5 sacks in 04.

Im glad he is falling...fall all the way to us.

[sirhcyennek81]

kiwanuka is 6'7, and weighs 260 pounds. thats awful thin for a pro defensive end. Might be a force in a year or two when he can put on 20 pounds.

:Broncos:

[Clockwork Orange]

kiwanuka is 6'7, and weighs 260 pounds. thats awful thin for a pro defensive end. Might be a force in a year or two when he can put on 20 pounds.

Rich Tuten will take care of that. :yep:

[WABronco]

I will GLADLY welcome Kiwi into the Bronco fold at 22 or 29.

He got cheapshotted against Virginia this year and that probably slowed him a bit. But he is a damn good talent. 25 TFL and 11.5 sacks in 04.

Im glad he is falling...fall all the way to us.

I was surprised that he didn't re up his stock at the combine...

[sirhcyennek81]

Rich Tuten will take care of that. :yep:

i believe so, yes. not opposed to drafting kiwanuka if he is there at 22 or 29.

:Broncos:

[GonzoLays]

Didn't he bench press just 17 reps of 225 lbs?

If so, wouldn't he drop completely out of the first round, and into the second round? If he is that weak, why waste a 1st round pick on him?

I'd rather draft Bunkley at DT, or draft Wimbley or Lawson as speedy DE's, than to waste a pick on Kiwanuka. Kiwi has bust written all over him. No dedication to get get stronger, and the reason why his shoulder hurts all the time, is because he gets tossed around and manhandled like a sack of potatoes when he went up against stronger opponents. We need a speed rusher guy on the DE, so why not try and get one.

I seem to recall that Trevor Pryce was also very weak. I don't think Trevor was dedicated to lifting weights either.

7bronco7.

The longer your arms are the harder it is to bench. I wouldn't put much stock into Mathias only getting it up 17 times because he is 6'7". Now if he was 6'1" and only got it up 17 times then there would be major issues.

[eddie mac]

Rich Tuten will take care of that. :yep:

Wish I could get paid for eating.

[broncohaven]

I would rather have Hali, but I would be excited about Kiwi.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The longer your arms are the harder it is to bench. I wouldn't put much stock into Mathias only getting it up 17 times because he is 6'7". Now if he was 6'1" and only got it up 17 times then there would be major issues.

Did levity just enter the thread through a guy named "gonzolays"? I believe it did!

Longer arms = increased distance per rep.

Let those guys get hung on that and we'll walk out of the draft with Jason Taylor Jr.

[ludo21]

I like Hali. But in terms of more potential, id take Kiwi. I hope he drops to us, and then the ever BIGGER hope is the Shanny drafts him.

[DB-Freak]

The bench is not a good indicator of overall strength.

Not only that, the system they use for indicating bench strength is flawed for testing strength.

[DB-Freak]

Yea plus the wingspan of KIWI must be insane.

Just not a good benching body.

[Ray Finkle]

Didn't he bench press just 17 reps of 225 lbs?

If so, wouldn't he drop completely out of the first round, and into the second round? If he is that weak, why waste a 1st round pick on him?

I'd rather draft Bunkley at DT, or draft Wimbley or Lawson as speedy DE's, than to waste a pick on Kiwanuka. Kiwi has bust written all over him. No dedication to get get stronger, and the reason why his shoulder hurts all the time, is because he gets tossed around and manhandled like a sack of potatoes when he went up against stronger opponents. We need a speed rusher guy on the DE, so why not try and get one.

I seem to recall that Trevor Pryce was also very weak. I don't think Trevor was dedicated to lifting weights either.

7bronco7.

I can only put up 225 three times (with a spot and squeeln' like a girl)....stats and numbers don't always tell the story...

[TheReverend]

I can only put up 225 three times (with a spot and squeeln' like a girl)....stats and numbers don't always tell the story...

What, exactly, do you and your bench ability have to do with Pro DE prospects again?

[Popps]

17 reps? Wow, that's pretty bad. We're supposed to bank on someone like this as the answer to our d-line problems?

If you're that light, you'd better have some upper body strength to disengage blockers. Check out Jason Taylor if you want to see what I mean. I watched that guy rep something like 30 on the incline press! Tatum Bell knocked out like 30 (flat, not incline)... if that puts it in better perspective.

I don't care how fast you are. Once one of these big slob o-tackles gets his mitts on you, you'd better have some strength to get free if you want any chance of getting to the QB.

[Ray Finkle]

What, exactly, do you and your bench ability have to do with Pro DE prospects again?

slow down Rev....I was simply stating that numbers don't make the player....shouldn't you be working on the book's sequel?;D


with the reps part, I was trying to illustrate how hard that is.

[TheReverend]

slow down Rev....I was simply stating that numbers don't make the player....shouldn't you be working on the book's sequel?;D

No sequel... ever. The end is the end. I see your point now and I concede. Long live Ray Finkle. Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to writing.

[Ray Finkle]

No sequel... ever. The end is the end. I see your point now and I concede. Long live Ray Finkle. Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to writing.


I was trying to mock you....I have you book on the list I need to read. Right after Freakonomics and Blink.

[DB-Freak]

1-5 reps.......

That's the rep range for true indicator of strength.

[TheReverend]

I was trying to mock you....I have you book on the list I need to read. Right after Freakonomics and Blink.

I know, it was funny. I dont want any trouble Ray... you bench 225 3x.

[Ray Finkle]

I know, it was funny. I dont want any trouble Ray... you bench 225 3x.

and don't forget it :strong:

[KillerBronco#76]

17 reps? Wow, that's pretty bad. We're supposed to bank on someone like this as the answer to our d-line problems?

If you're that light, you'd better have some upper body strength to disengage blockers. Check out Jason Taylor if you want to see what I mean. I watched that guy rep something like 30 on the incline press! Tatum Bell knocked out like 30 (flat, not incline)... if that puts it in better perspective.

I don't care how fast you are. Once one of these big slob o-tackles gets his mitts on you, you'd better have some strength to get free if you want any chance of getting to the QB.

Benching with a barbell is bad for your shoulders so alot of players choose to train with dumbells, wich works the support muscles better and actualy helps you more but its alot different than benching with a barbell, another thing you need to take into acount is his frame at 6'7" 260 he deffinatley has room to grow. we also dont know his lower body strength wich is actualy the most important for a DE, having long arms is more of an advantage than having a strong chest what good is being able to bench 425 pounds if the other person can extend his arms and you cant touch him. Thats what a DE is supposed to do creat seperation. Being 6' 7" will also give him good leverage if he can get low and drive up but yes he does need decent leg strength to get good leverage. i havnt seen any video but as a DE he doesn't realy need a very strong upperbody to rush the pass. Just needs good lower body strength and has to have quick hand & arms plus with a huge reach gives him a real nice advantage. As i said though i havn't seen him play so i dont know if he uses his hands well or not

[Drek]

I seem to recall that Trevor Pryce was also very weak. I don't think Trevor was dedicated to lifting weights either.
Trev was selected to multiple pro bowls, if anything this only hurts the arguement that bench reps are an important aspect in grading DL prospects.

I don't think anyone is trying to sell Kiwi as a some perfect prospect, but a mediocre bench doesn't disqualify everything else thats so good about him. He's got a lot of room to add weight, has performed at the collegiate level, and has his own fair share of ideal measurables for a DE, not the least of which is his height. Neil Smith's long arms came in useful rushing the passer as well.

I wouldn't take him over Bunkley, and it'd be tough between him, Hali, or Lawson. He'd beat out every other DL that might reasonably be there in late round 1 though.

[brother love]

Neil O'Donnel used to be able to do 40 reps of 225?
Take Kiwi if he is still there?

Brown, Warren, Bunkley, Kiwi

NiceLOL

[meangene]

I'm not sold on Kiwi. Lots of little nicks and he was just manhandled at the Senior Bowl. I'm not sure he's aggressive enough either. I think he is a high bust risk. And, not because of his 17 reps. I'd take Hali, Lawson or Wimbley in Rd. 1 over him.

[Drek]

I'm not sold on Kiwi. Lots of little nicks and he was just manhandled at the Senior Bowl. I'm not sure he's aggressive enough either. I think he is a high bust risk. And, not because of his 17 reps. I'd take Hali, Lawson or Wimbley in Rd. 1 over him.
Why Wimbley? Not like he's significantly faster or stronger and he's shown the same problems of getting engulfed by bigger blockers. The difference is it happened to Kiwi on the bigger stage of the senior bowl. Lawson and Hali have had the same problems over their careers but won their Senior Bowl matchups more often than Kiwi. I don't put that much stock in the senior bowl personally.

While Kiwi does come up short compared to Hali, Lawson, and Wimbley in some areas, primarily speed and measurable strength, he and Hali are clearly a cut above Lawson and Wimbley in terms of pass rushing power and leverage, technique, and consistancy. I'd personally select them in order of Hali, Lawson, Kiwi, Wimbley, but they're all quality guys. I see Kiwi and Lawson as being about on par with one another, just different skill sets, as end rushers, but Lawson offers the flexability to move back and play OLB, which is valuable should a team consider moving to a 3-4 or playing a 3-4 front in the nickle.

[gunns]

I'm not sold on Kiwi. Lots of little nicks and he was just manhandled at the Senior Bowl. I'm not sure he's aggressive enough either. I think he is a high bust risk. And, not because of his 17 reps. I'd take Hali, Lawson or Wimbley in Rd. 1 over him.

I agree, he was also manhandled by Daryn Colledge from Boise St.

[~Crash~]

and Daryn Colledge did not do so good at lifting so ...

[meangene]

Why Wimbley? Not like he's significantly faster or stronger and he's shown the same problems of getting engulfed by bigger blockers. The difference is it happened to Kiwi on the bigger stage of the senior bowl. Lawson and Hali have had the same problems over their careers but won their Senior Bowl matchups more often than Kiwi. I don't put that much stock in the senior bowl personally.

While Kiwi does come up short compared to Hali, Lawson, and Wimbley in some areas, primarily speed and measurable strength, he and Hali are clearly a cut above Lawson and Wimbley in terms of pass rushing power and leverage, technique, and consistancy. I'd personally select them in order of Hali, Lawson, Kiwi, Wimbley, but they're all quality guys. I see Kiwi and Lawson as being about on par with one another, just different skill sets, as end rushers, but Lawson offers the flexability to move back and play OLB, which is valuable should a team consider moving to a 3-4 or playing a 3-4 front in the nickle.

I like that speed Lawson and Wimbley possess! I think they are also quicker with bigger upsides. They will gain weight and get stronger and have just begun to scratch the surface of their potential. Plus, there is an aggressiveness that I don't see with Kiwi. Our D-line needs guys who can fly around. In fact, I'd rather have Tapp than Kiwi. Just my opinion. If we draft him, I hope I'm totally wrong.

[Garcia Bronco]

Daryl Tapp is a much better end than Kiwi...if I had to put a number on it...I would say 3 times better. So as you can see....Daryl Tapp is like 3 Kiwi's. Hope this clears up any confusion. :)

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Daryl Tapp is a much better end than Kiwi...if I had to put a number on it...I would say 3 times better. So as you can see....Daryl Tapp is like 3 Kiwi's. Hope this clears up any confusion. :)
:homer:

[DBroncos4life]

:homer:
Yeah its just sick to see that kind homerism here.

[bpc]

He is still developing. I think if the new CBA falls through, he could be an even more important pick. Draft picks wouldn't be able to become FA until after 6 years. I think Kiwi is at least a 1-2 developemental player in the mold of KGB. His upside is huge though. He just needs good coaching and support.

[yavoon]

He is still developing. I think if the new CBA falls through, he could be an even more important pick. Draft picks wouldn't be able to become FA until after 6 years. I think Kiwi is at least a 1-2 developemental player in the mold of KGB. His upside is huge though. He just needs good coaching and support.

@*()#

[-Slap-]

Trev was selected to multiple pro bowls, if anything this only hurts the arguement that bench reps are an important aspect in grading DL prospects.
Because the career of any Bronco who doesn't retire with honors undergoes a certain amount of revisionism.

[Boobs McGee]

This whole bench rep thing seems a little jaded as far as guaging athletic ability IMO. I'm in full agreeance with the earlier poster about leg strength and arm reach. Much bigger indicators of a good pass rusher if he has the wingspan to rip past an end or a tackle. By the bench standards, I could be a lower end draft prospect at the combine.

So many variables in that bench anyway. Wingspan alone is a HUGE factor in determining bench max. The longer the arms, the farther the bar has to travel in both direction = (usually) less weight. I can almost guarantee that the guys with the man boobs and short arms are gonna be bustin out reps like a madman, while the lanky armed cut-up chest having tall guys are a LOT stronger but get tired in that particular test more easily.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Any of the measureables, taken alone are fairly worthless. They take the whole set of information before putting a value on the player. degrading a player on one mesureable is like going to the doctor for a physical and he puts up the eye chart and says maybe you need to have your eyes checked. He didn't say you were on your death bed, just that something might need a closer look.

[The Big E]

Can he get to the ****ing QB or not? That's all I care about.

[Popps]

Benching with a barbell is bad for your shoulders so alot of players choose to train with dumbells, wich works the support muscles better and actualy helps you more but its alot different than benching with a barbell, another thing you need to take into acount is his frame at 6'7" 260 he deffinatley has room to grow. we also dont know his lower body strength wich is actualy the most important for a DE, having long arms is more of an advantage than having a strong chest what good is being able to bench 425 pounds if the other person can extend his arms and you cant touch him. Thats what a DE is supposed to do creat seperation. Being 6' 7" will also give him good leverage if he can get low and drive up but yes he does need decent leg strength to get good leverage. i havnt seen any video but as a DE he doesn't realy need a very strong upperbody to rush the pass. Just needs good lower body strength and has to have quick hand & arms plus with a huge reach gives him a real nice advantage. As i said though i havn't seen him play so i dont know if he uses his hands well or not

You make your case well. I'd only take exception with the idea that being tall gives you leverage. If you're 6'7", you'd better be a real good knee-bender, particularly if you don't have much strength up top.

The long arms thing is huge, though... you're right. Actually, those long arms are what he could use to create that leverage. Long-armed guys are rarely good at bench-pressing, anyway. I don't know... 17 still seems a little alarming to me.