Vikings C Matt Birk: "Gene Upshaw is a piece of ****"

[bronco militia]

Birk pins much of the blame on Upshaw for labor standoff
The Vikings center did not play last year, but he sure delivered a Pro Bowl-sized verbal pancake on the executive director of the NFL Players' Association when no CBA deal was reached on Thursday.

Vikings center Matt Birk isn't a big fan of the players union in general and of Gene Upshaw, its executive director, in particular.
"Don't put this in the paper ... no, wait, go ahead and put it in," Birk said. "Gene Upshaw is a piece of" well, you know.

Birk spoke as the union and the NFL were about to go Tony Soprano on the goose that lays the kind of golden eggs other sports can only dream about.

Fortunately, both sides blinked. Seven hours before what would have been the beginning of the end of the NFL's salary cap, it was mutually agreed that three more days are required for someone -- anyone! -- to come to his senses and extend the collective bargaining agreement. So free agency will start on Monday, not today.

"It's a joke, it really is," Birk said. "Everyone is making money. A lot of money. You think anyone wants to hear about the money problems of the NFL owners or players? It's bad pub for the league. It's bad for all of us."

Birk was the Vikings' union rep until he couldn't stomach Upshaw's "propaganda and poor leadership" any longer. He has fought Upshaw on other fronts over the years, speaking out against the inordinate distribution of money to unproven rookies and Upshaw's refusal to fight for guaranteed contracts that players in other sports enjoy.

"Someone asked him about me when I was going through my deal last summer trying to get my contract guaranteed," Birk said. "He said he played with a lot of great centers in his time and none of them made $4 million. That's our union rep? C'mon."

Birk doesn't place all of the blame for the CBA mess at Upshaw's feet. But he does blame him for not being forthright while explaining what it would mean to the players not to have a salary cap in 2007.

"When you go to those CBA meetings, you always feel like you're being sold something instead of being given the straight facts," Birk said. "Through all the meetings leading up to this, it was always: 'The owners don't want an uncapped year. We'll get a deal, and if we don't, so what? There will be an uncapped year and there will be crazy money out there.'

"The reality is that's not the case. And you're seeing that it's not the leverage we were told it would be."

While the lack of a salary cap would encourage the richer teams to overspend on certain players, there also would be rules in place that would be unfavorable to players.

Players would become unrestricted free agents after six seasons, not four. Raises would be capped at 30 percent above the previous season. And there would be no minimum salary cap, whereas now it's 54 percent of the defined gross revenue.

"And we'll lose some of our 401(k) and annuities, and some benefits, too," Birk said. "That's a huge deal to the younger guys making the minimum who might not have 10-year careers. Those are guys the union needs to look out for.

"Instead, you go there and it's like some kind of religious revival. You don't feel you're getting the true message. And they're always talking too fast."

Birk wishes the actual players had more power and say in how the union operates.

"Too many guys in the league just accept whatever Gene says," Birk said. "I don't know why no one has called this guy out."

It's hard to believe we're discussing labor unrest when the NFL generates $5.2 billion a year and signed the largest TV deal in sports history. The league gets $3.7 BILLION in TV money this year alone.

"Gene thinks we're making all this money because of Gene Upshaw," Birk said. "No, we're making all of this money because of TV. This sport is huge, and what's going on right now is hurting all of us."

http://www.startribune.com/101/story/282098.html

[baja]

Great find and very excellent take on Birk's part

[bronco militia]

Great find and very excellent take on Birk's part


say thanks to South Stands Junkie....

[Mile High Shack]

Birk is from an Ivy League school, so he can see through the idiocy of Gene Upshaw

[Garcia Bronco]

Good job Matt Birk

[Mediator12]

Birk was the Vikings' union rep until he couldn't stomach Upshaw's "propaganda and poor leadership" any longer. He has fought Upshaw on other fronts over the years, speaking out against the inordinate distribution of money to unproven rookies and Upshaw's refusal to fight for guaranteed contracts that players in other sports enjoy.

I think this is exactly the reason Upshaw has made this dispute a big deal. He is trying to deflect criticism of his job performance by intelligent players in getting a huge deal. He has misrepresented the "uncapped year" aspect to the players and is trying to make up for poor representation on these other two crucial fronts. Great Job Matt!

[brncs_fan]

Birk pins much of the blame on Upshaw for labor standoff
The Vikings center did not play last year, but he sure delivered a Pro Bowl-sized verbal pancake on the executive director of the NFL Players' Association when no CBA deal was reached on Thursday.

Vikings center Matt Birk isn't a big fan of the players union in general and of Gene Upshaw, its executive director, in particular.
"Don't put this in the paper ... no, wait, go ahead and put it in," Birk said. "Gene Upshaw is a piece of" well, you know.

Birk spoke as the union and the NFL were about to go Tony Soprano on the goose that lays the kind of golden eggs other sports can only dream about.

Fortunately, both sides blinked. Seven hours before what would have been the beginning of the end of the NFL's salary cap, it was mutually agreed that three more days are required for someone -- anyone! -- to come to his senses and extend the collective bargaining agreement. So free agency will start on Monday, not today.

"It's a joke, it really is," Birk said. "Everyone is making money. A lot of money. You think anyone wants to hear about the money problems of the NFL owners or players? It's bad pub for the league. It's bad for all of us."

Birk was the Vikings' union rep until he couldn't stomach Upshaw's "propaganda and poor leadership" any longer. He has fought Upshaw on other fronts over the years, speaking out against the inordinate distribution of money to unproven rookies and Upshaw's refusal to fight for guaranteed contracts that players in other sports enjoy.

"Someone asked him about me when I was going through my deal last summer trying to get my contract guaranteed," Birk said. "He said he played with a lot of great centers in his time and none of them made $4 million. That's our union rep? C'mon."

Birk doesn't place all of the blame for the CBA mess at Upshaw's feet. But he does blame him for not being forthright while explaining what it would mean to the players not to have a salary cap in 2007.

"When you go to those CBA meetings, you always feel like you're being sold something instead of being given the straight facts," Birk said. "Through all the meetings leading up to this, it was always: 'The owners don't want an uncapped year. We'll get a deal, and if we don't, so what? There will be an uncapped year and there will be crazy money out there.'

"The reality is that's not the case. And you're seeing that it's not the leverage we were told it would be."

While the lack of a salary cap would encourage the richer teams to overspend on certain players, there also would be rules in place that would be unfavorable to players.

Players would become unrestricted free agents after six seasons, not four. Raises would be capped at 30 percent above the previous season. And there would be no minimum salary cap, whereas now it's 54 percent of the defined gross revenue.

"And we'll lose some of our 401(k) and annuities, and some benefits, too," Birk said. "That's a huge deal to the younger guys making the minimum who might not have 10-year careers. Those are guys the union needs to look out for.

"Instead, you go there and it's like some kind of religious revival. You don't feel you're getting the true message. And they're always talking too fast."

Birk wishes the actual players had more power and say in how the union operates.

"Too many guys in the league just accept whatever Gene says," Birk said. "I don't know why no one has called this guy out."

It's hard to believe we're discussing labor unrest when the NFL generates $5.2 billion a year and signed the largest TV deal in sports history. The league gets $3.7 BILLION in TV money this year alone.

"Gene thinks we're making all this money because of Gene Upshaw," Birk said. "No, we're making all of this money because of TV. This sport is huge, and what's going on right now is hurting all of us."

http://www.startribune.com/101/story/282098.html

Matt Birk may have the most reasonable opinion of anyone I have heard in this whole ordeal and he just called someone a piece of excrement. That says quite a bit.

[ro_50]

I applaud Birk for his comments.

Gene Upshaw is an idiot.

[12th man]

Finially, someone grew some balls and spoke out against upyourasshaw.

[Arkansas Bronco]

I mish more players would stand up and run Upshaw out of the league.

[Man-Goblin]

Outstanding. The only way I would have enjoyed it more is if it was someone like Rod Smith saying it.

[-Slap-]

I guess Gene Upshaw must have just unilaterally named himself head of the NFLPA without a vote of union membership. Apparently he's singlehandedly retained that position for the last 20 years despite the wishes of his consituency.

[ludo21]

I guess Gene Upshaw must have just unilaterally named himself head of the NFLPA without a vote of union membership. Apparently he's singlehandedly retained that position for the last 20 years despite the wishes of his consituency.


a lot of people dont look into things for themselves tho. They just take what is thrown at them. Obviously Gene is very manipulative, or else the league probably wouldnt be in the state it is in right now.

Right on BIRK!! :strong:

[bronco militia]

I guess Gene Upshaw must have just unilaterally named himself head of the NFLPA without a vote of union membership. Apparently he's singlehandedly retained that position for the last 20 years despite the wishes of his consituency.


a lot has changed since 1987 and so has his constituency...

IMO, it looks like he's trying to save face after letting the League run roughshod over players when the league imposed fines and suspensions...

[NaptownChief]

a lot of people dont look into things for themselves tho. They just take what is thrown at them. Obviously Gene is very manipulative, or else the league probably wouldnt be in the state it is in right now.

Right on BIRK!! :strong:



Look at a lot of the garbage that has been elected into politics over the years...Apathy and the lack of quality candidates with interest in positions goes a long way in causing that problem...Look no further than Marion"Crack"Berry.

[Florida_Bronco]

Matt Birk may have the most reasonable opinion of anyone I have heard in this whole ordeal and he just called someone a piece of excrement. That says quite a bit.

Beat me to it.

[PLOWHORSE]

The main reason too that Upshaw is still the union leader is that he is very close friends with Tags. Imagine that! Sounds like collusion if you ask me.

[Antilles]

Look at a lot of the garbage that has been elected into politics over the years...Apathy and the lack of quality candidates with interest in positions goes a long way in causing that problem...Look no further than Marion"Crack"Berry.

Marion "Crack" Berry was actually originally elected on a very interesting and novel idea: he promised to give African-Americans a huge stake in the D.C. government. A lot of people don’t realize that despite representing the majority of the population of the District, before Berry was elected, blacks held virtually NO positions in the District's government. Now, virtually EVERY D.C. Government position is held by an African-American - at every level. He is beloved by a large portion of this city for that very reason - which is also why he was elected as a city councilman, notwithstanding his monumental corruption and failures - political and personal.

Berry may be a miserable politician (and person), but he sure is interesting. He’s certainly not crafted from the same mold as the crap politicians we have today. He’s a completely different brand of crap.

[watermock]

Upshaw makes Marion "crackho" Berry look genius.

Good HornHead that Birk guy....even tho injured he is very well repected as a leader for the Vikings. Upshaw is an attention whore and fool. How he hasn't been voted out is a mystery, but most players aren't IVY league either. The stone cold fact is that unions can be broken...there is a long history of that in all fields, from both industry and sports.

I'm not siding with the greedy slacker owners...you know who they are...Bowlen works his ass off and Bidwell just coasts...why does he need our parking money ect? We allready prop that slacker up, along with Greasy Al.

It's baffling this isn't allready done considering we are financing the whole thing actually...doesn't the fan have a voice in the wilderness?

[watermock]

Marion "Crack" Berry was actually originally elected on a very interesting and novel idea: he promised to give African-Americans a huge stake in the D.C. government. A lot of people don’t realize that despite representing the majority of the population of the District, before Berry was elected, blacks held virtually NO positions in the District's government. Now, virtually EVERY D.C. Government position is held by an African-American - at every level. He is beloved by a large portion of this city for that very reason - which is also why he was elected as a city councilman, notwithstanding his monumental corruption and failures - political and personal.

Berry may be a miserable politician (and person), but he sure is interesting. He’s certainly not crafted from the same mold as the crap politicians we have today. He’s a completely different brand of crap.

Thus the fact that D.C. is the murder capital of the US. Never been there but my cousin said it was a craphole with a piehole of corruption in the middle.

[yavoon]

Marion "Crack" Berry was actually originally elected on a very interesting and novel idea: he promised to give African-Americans a huge stake in the D.C. government. A lot of people don’t realize that despite representing the majority of the population of the District, before Berry was elected, blacks held virtually NO positions in the District's government. Now, virtually EVERY D.C. Government position is held by an African-American - at every level. He is beloved by a large portion of this city for that very reason - which is also why he was elected as a city councilman, notwithstanding his monumental corruption and failures - political and personal.

Berry may be a miserable politician (and person), but he sure is interesting. He’s certainly not crafted from the same mold as the crap politicians we have today. He’s a completely different brand of crap.

that worked out well.

[NaptownChief]

Thus the fact that D.C. is the murder capital of the US. Never been there but my cousin said it was a craphole with a piehole of corruption in the middle.


Murder capital of the world and ridiculous taxes despite pitiful public schools. 9+% income taxes when you have a top notch community and public schools is one thing but 9+% taxes when you have a crime infested community and horrible schools is criminal.

As for Berry getting elected based on giving away jobs and money...As the old saying goes we are all in trouble when the masses figure out they can vote themselves money.

[Willynowei]

if only all the NFL players were smart enough to speak out against Upshaw. I'm suprised it took this long and it had to be a harvard graduate lol.

It is quite obvious that Upshaw is out for personal glory and not for the players. This entire issue for a few percentage points could be catastrophic for the players in a couple of years. Upshaw is no different from most other union leaders, they couldnt care less about the workers, and are always after their own political glory.

[ludo21]

if only all the NFL players were smart enough to speak out against Birk. I'm suprised it took this long and it had to be a harvard graduate lol.

It is quite obvious that Upshaw is out for personal glory and not for the players. This entire issue for a few percentage points could be catastrophic for the players in a couple of years. Upshaw is no different from most other union leaders, they couldnt care less about the workers, and are always after their own political glory.


i know its a strong rumor that he wants to be the next Commish of the league. He definitely cares about nothing but himself, and it will only hurt the NFL. This sucks!

[Kaylore]

While this doesn't surprise me and I agree, I'm sure there are several other guys who would praise Upshaw. For what, I have no idea.

[Antilles]

Murder capital of the world and ridiculous taxes despite pitiful public schools. 9+% income taxes when you have a top notch community and public schools is one thing but 9+% taxes when you have a crime infested community and horrible schools is criminal.

As for Berry getting elected based on giving away jobs and money...As the old saying goes we are all in trouble when the masses figure out they can vote themselves money.

Yeah I never said electing Berry was wise, just that his ideas were different.

The schools aren't the only public service that is a joke - it's EVERY single public service. The craphole with a piehole of corruption is a fairly apt description. Sure is fun to live here though. Seriously.

[DomCasual]

All I can say is that Matt Birk's awesomeness level is through the roof, in my book.

[loborugger]

I cant speak for the history of Gene Upshaw - except that he was a Raider...:TJnPopps:

I know Birk has a very good reputation. Further, he hits it right on the head in these statements. I have to give him props.

I will be disappointed if there is a work stoppage this year. Very disappointed. Flippin greedy NFL.

[-Slap-]

"Someone asked him about me when I was going through my deal last summer trying to get my contract guaranteed," Birk said. "He said he played with a lot of great centers in his time and none of them made $4 million. That's our union rep? C'mon."

Birk is just another asshole with an axe to grind. Anyone who really believes guaranteed contracts are feasible in pro football has their head wedged up their ass.

[Raider Bill]

Birk is just another a-hole with an axe to grind. Anyone who really believes guaranteed contracts are feasible in pro football has their head wedged up their ass.


You'd think an Ivy Leaguer could figure it out. You dont bend over when dealing from a position of strength. The players are the product. The players are the ones walking with a limp when their career is over. They deserve everything they can get IMO.

[ludo21]

You'd think an Ivy Leaguer could figure it out. You dont bend over when dealing from a position of strength. The players are the product. The players are the ones walking with a limp when their career is over. They deserve everything they can get IMO.


yep


anyone see that OTL where a bunch of players are getting cut off by the NFL. Their MEdical checkss and what not.

That is ugly and HAS to change

[-Slap-]

i know its a strong rumor that he wants to be the next Commish of the league. He definitely cares about nothing but himself, and it will only hurt the NFL. This sucks!
Why would the owners ever hire a former head of the NFLPA? They've been in direct opposition to Gene Upshaw since his first day as a player rep in 1970.

[watermock]

Well Slappy, if there is a sport where contracts should be guaranteed it's football because of the injuries...he also mentions the fact (which I have also), paying certain players way over their value (see Favre and McNair among others) while marginal players don't starve, but they don't get rich either...every comment was valid. I have not clue about this alleged friendship between Tag and Upshaw, that might of been the case the past years, but I doubt that's the case now.

Birk is simply pointing out the real issues that the NFLPA should be adressing...more equitable distribution of salary, protecting their old soldiers, both retired and in their twilight, and how the failure to get a CBA will be more disasterous for the players than the owners.

All it will amount to is a slave auction...if UpShaw thinks this will be some windfall he needs to get on the slave ship because there will be a few high priced players and a bunch of collusion...or retribution if you want to look at it in fact...Teams won't be obligated to pay more than 1 dollar a year for marginal players, with no benefits...nice job looking out for the little guy Gene. Teams are not even obligated to pay minimum wage, because it's a contract.

When you have University "graduates" who can't get past a 10 on the wonderlic...do you honestly think they have a clue what's happening?

[TomServo]

all the nflpa players who got their asses handed to them in the last strike are gone from the league. but upshaw is still there. i remember meck was one of the big union supporters but guess who was screwed last time? the vets, including mecklinberg.

remember all the nhl players supported their union guy and said "no cap ever"? and what happened? a year w/no nhl bucks and a cap LOWER than before the strike.

[Atlas]

Birk pins much of the blame on Upshaw for labor standoff
The Vikings center did not play last year, but he sure delivered a Pro Bowl-sized verbal pancake on the executive director of the NFL Players' Association when no CBA deal was reached on Thursday.

Vikings center Matt Birk isn't a big fan of the players union in general and of Gene Upshaw, its executive director, in particular.
"Don't put this in the paper ... no, wait, go ahead and put it in," Birk said. "Gene Upshaw is a piece of" well, you know.

Birk spoke as the union and the NFL were about to go Tony Soprano on the goose that lays the kind of golden eggs other sports can only dream about.

Fortunately, both sides blinked. Seven hours before what would have been the beginning of the end of the NFL's salary cap, it was mutually agreed that three more days are required for someone -- anyone! -- to come to his senses and extend the collective bargaining agreement. So free agency will start on Monday, not today.

"It's a joke, it really is," Birk said. "Everyone is making money. A lot of money. You think anyone wants to hear about the money problems of the NFL owners or players? It's bad pub for the league. It's bad for all of us."

Birk was the Vikings' union rep until he couldn't stomach Upshaw's "propaganda and poor leadership" any longer. He has fought Upshaw on other fronts over the years, speaking out against the inordinate distribution of money to unproven rookies and Upshaw's refusal to fight for guaranteed contracts that players in other sports enjoy.

"Someone asked him about me when I was going through my deal last summer trying to get my contract guaranteed," Birk said. "He said he played with a lot of great centers in his time and none of them made $4 million. That's our union rep? C'mon."

Birk doesn't place all of the blame for the CBA mess at Upshaw's feet. But he does blame him for not being forthright while explaining what it would mean to the players not to have a salary cap in 2007.

"When you go to those CBA meetings, you always feel like you're being sold something instead of being given the straight facts," Birk said. "Through all the meetings leading up to this, it was always: 'The owners don't want an uncapped year. We'll get a deal, and if we don't, so what? There will be an uncapped year and there will be crazy money out there.'

"The reality is that's not the case. And you're seeing that it's not the leverage we were told it would be."

While the lack of a salary cap would encourage the richer teams to overspend on certain players, there also would be rules in place that would be unfavorable to players.

Players would become unrestricted free agents after six seasons, not four. Raises would be capped at 30 percent above the previous season. And there would be no minimum salary cap, whereas now it's 54 percent of the defined gross revenue.

"And we'll lose some of our 401(k) and annuities, and some benefits, too," Birk said. "That's a huge deal to the younger guys making the minimum who might not have 10-year careers. Those are guys the union needs to look out for.

"Instead, you go there and it's like some kind of religious revival. You don't feel you're getting the true message. And they're always talking too fast."

Birk wishes the actual players had more power and say in how the union operates.

"Too many guys in the league just accept whatever Gene says," Birk said. "I don't know why no one has called this guy out."

It's hard to believe we're discussing labor unrest when the NFL generates $5.2 billion a year and signed the largest TV deal in sports history. The league gets $3.7 BILLION in TV money this year alone.

"Gene thinks we're making all this money because of Gene Upshaw," Birk said. "No, we're making all of this money because of TV. This sport is huge, and what's going on right now is hurting all of us."

http://www.startribune.com/101/story/282098.html

And that's why Matt Birk is my hero!!

[DBroncos4life]

Well Slappy, if there is a sport where contracts should be guaranteed it's football because of the injuries...he also mentions the fact (which I have also), paying certain players way over their value (see Favre and McNair among others) while marginal players don't starve, but they don't get rich either...every comment was valid. I have not clue about this alleged friendship between Tag and Upshaw, that might of been the case the past years, but I doubt that's the case now.

Birk is simply pointing out the real issues that the NFLPA should be adressing...more equitable distribution of salary, protecting their old soldiers, both retired and in their twilight, and how the failure to get a CBA will be more disasterous for the players than the owners.

All it will amount to is a slave auction...if UpShaw thinks this will be some windfall he needs to get on the slave ship because there will be a few high priced players and a bunch of collusion...or retribution if you want to look at it in fact...Teams won't be obligated to pay more than 1 dollar a year for marginal players, with no benefits...nice job looking out for the little guy Gene. Teams are not even obligated to pay minimum wage, because it's a contract.

When you have University "graduates" who can't get past a 10 on the wonderlic...do you honestly think they have a clue what's happening?
That is why contracts shouldn't be guaranteed. Could you imagine a team that can't afford players because it still has players on its roster that are out of the NFL because of injuries. The avg years of a NFL player is only 3.5 years. Think about it this way. Contracts are guaranteed, Palmer can never play again because of his injury. He just signed a contract extention worth just under 119 million dollars. Thats alot of money to have to pay a guy that can never play again.

[watermock]

That isn't the point he was making at atll...Stars that sign big SB. altho not techincically guranteed, many play for the minimum salary while banking imillions the pro rated bonus. You don't have a clue. That is what Birk is talking about.

[DBroncos4life]

That isn't the point he was making at atll...Stars that sign big SB. altho not techincically guranteed, many play for the minimum salary while banking imillions the pro rated bonus. You don't have a clue. That is what Birk is talking about.
You are the one that said if any sports contracts should be guaranteed its the NFLs. You even went as far as to say because of injuries. Its right there in bold. As far as I know the only part of the contract that is guaranteed is the bonus. Pro-rated or not it gets paid to them.

http://www.ravensnests.com/salary-cap.htm

[watermock]

I never said once I was against guranteed contracts.

[BritBronco Maniac]

What Mock is saying (I think), is that the top players effectively have guaranteed contracts because they get to keep their SB which forms most of the money.
The lesser guys with the smaller SB's are the ones that have problems.

Whatever, Upshaw is a P.O.S and it seems very wrong that one man is effectively trying to ruin the whole sport.

[Odysseus]

Birk is from an Ivy League school, so he can see through the idiocy of Gene Upshaw

Birk said it all.

[Odysseus]

Berry may be a miserable politician (and person), but he sure is interesting. He’s certainly not crafted from the same mold as the crap politicians we have today. He’s a completely different brand of crap.

I miss those days when there was better crap to elect and when getting some crack was commonly assumed you were chasing a female.

[-Slap-]

I would love for Matt Birk or any of his worshippers on this board to explain to me how guaranteed contracts would work in pro football. You have enormous rosters, you have huge attrition rate due to injuries. Do you really believe NFL teams are going to pay millions of dollars to guys who can't work anymore? The only way something like this would ever be practical is if you completely did away with mega contracts in the sport. Well, guess what, Peyton Manning and Randy Moss and their legions of sycophants would never allow that to happen.

Matt Birk should talk to some of his peers about how they felt the last time Upshaw buckled before management. They all cursed him for "selling them out". Unfortunately, many NFL fans live in some kind of fantasy land and cannot understand that Upshaw's essentially in a situation where he can't please everybody.

NFL ownership has had very smooth sailing in regards to labor relations over the years. They're fortunate they've been dealing with an ex player like Upshaw and not a real ball breaker like Marvin Miller. Too bad the League isn't dealing with Matt Birk. I'm sure there would be no work stoppage over his guaranteed contract proposal. Even though its never ever going to happen.

We've already seen that the NFL is willing to turn their product into an utter travesty, by Joe Dudeking the entire League back in 1987. I never liked Buddy Ryan, but my respect for him grew when he basically refused to coach a bunch of scrubs and scabs. I think Philly lost every strike game by more than 20 points. Incredibly, they lost those games before paying crowds, which simply proves that many people are mindless sheep.

Anyway, this is a pointless discussion. People here lose their intellect as soon as they realize they might lose their sport for a while. I can understand being emotional about an issue, but people chiming in with absurd comments when they're totally uninformed is a waste of time for everybody.

[DBroncos4life]

What Mock is saying (I think), is that the top players effectively have guaranteed contracts because they get to keep their SB which forms most of the money.
The lesser guys with the smaller SB's are the ones that have problems.

Whatever, Upshaw is a P.O.S and it seems very wrong that one man is effectively trying to ruin the whole sport.
I got a feeling that the lesser players will live within their means more often then the higher paid ones. Owens is a perfect example. If 7.5 mill a year isn't enough to feed his family on then stop buying them 100K meals each meal.

Im not going to lie to you. I know that a good portion of these guys got their college education paid for, they make damn good money now, its not my fault if they didn't learn anything in college to help them prepare for the real world outside of football. Its not fair that people like you and me, the guys that make football a sport, (without fans it would just go away) to have to suffer over one mans goals. The game is a buisness but without a demand who are they going to sell it too?

With that said I wouldn't mind the league setting up better things for the players once they are done with the game.

[Mediator12]

I would love for Matt Birk or any of his worshippers on this board to explain to me how guaranteed contracts would work in pro football. You have enormous rosters, you have huge attrition rate due to injuries. Do you really believe NFL teams are going to pay millions of dollars to guys who can't work anymore? The only way something like this would ever be practical is if you completely did away with mega contracts in the sport. Well, guess what, Peyton Manning and Randy Moss and their legions of sycophants would never allow that to happen.

Matt Birk should talk to some of his peers about how they felt the last time Upshaw buckled before management. They all cursed him for "selling them out". Unfortunately, many NFL fans live in some kind of fantasy land and cannot understand that Upshaw's essentially in a situation where he can't please everybody.

NFL ownership has had very smooth sailing in regards to labor relations over the years. They're fortunate they've been dealing with an ex player like Upshaw and not a real ball breaker like Marvin Miller. Too bad the League isn't dealing with Matt Birk. I'm sure there would be no work stoppage over his guaranteed contract proposal. Even though its never ever going to happen.

We've already seen that the NFL is willing to turn their product into an utter travesty, by Joe Dudeking the entire League back in 1987. I never liked Buddy Ryan, but my respect for him grew when he basically refused to coach a bunch of scrubs and scabs. I think Philly lost every strike game by more than 20 points. Incredibly, they lost those games before paying crowds, which simply proves that many people are mindless sheep.

Anyway, this is a pointless discussion. People here lose their intellect as soon as they realize they might lose their sport for a while. I can understand being emotional about an issue, but people chiming in with absurd comments when they're totally uninformed is a waste of time for everybody.

I agree that completely guaranteed contracts do not make since slap, but that is only part of the discussion. The inequity between players contracts, the flat out misrepresentation of what "uncapped" means to the players, and the failure to look after the interests of the guys he did "sell out" in the veterans benefits is where Upshaw has been pathetic as the union chief.

Upshaw is grandstanding to keep the legitimate concerns of the union he has failed to address away from his constituency who is dumb enough to believe his story. "Uncapped" means no more benefits paid by the teams and the vets would be completely screwed in two years unless the players took some of their own Money and paid into the plan that they currently only contribute to their personal benefits. You think the current players have enough good will to fund 13 million worth of benefits per team to keep it afloat?

I think unions have served a great purpose in getting fair representation for the labor force in this country. However, the NFLPA has it just as good or better than the owners. These guys are making huge wage increases beyond the cost of living and in five years in the league are eligible for complete benefits. If they invest their money wisely most of them would be comfortable for the next forty to fifty years if they siimply lived off the interest.

The best point Birk brought out was:

"It's a joke, it really is," Birk said. "Everyone is making money. A lot of money. You think anyone wants to hear about the money problems of the NFL owners or players? It's bad pub for the league. It's bad for all of us."

Finally, if Upshaw sold out those guys why the hell is he still in charge of the union? You would think the players would have gotten another guy to do a better deal down the line.

[-Slap-]

I agree that completely guaranteed contracts do not make since slap, but that is only part of the discussion. The inequity between players contracts, the flat out misrepresentation of what "uncapped" means to the players, and the failure to look after the interests of the guys he did "sell out" in the veterans benefits is where Upshaw has been pathetic as the union chief.

Upshaw is grandstanding to keep the legitimate concerns of the union he has failed to address away from his constituency who is dumb enough to believe his story. "Uncapped" means no more benefits paid by the teams and the vets would be completely screwed in two years unless the players took some of their own Money and paid into the plan that they currently only contribute to their personal benefits. You think the current players have enough good will to fund 13 million worth of benefits per team to keep it afloat?

I think unions have served a great purpose in getting fair representation for the labor force in this country. However, the NFLPA has it just as good or better than the owners. These guys are making huge wage increases beyond the cost of living and in five years in the league are eligible for complete benefits. If they invest their money wisely most of them would be comfortable for the next forty to fifty years if they siimply lived off the interest.

The best point Birk brought out was:

"It's a joke, it really is," Birk said. "Everyone is making money. A lot of money. You think anyone wants to hear about the money problems of the NFL owners or players? It's bad pub for the league. It's bad for all of us."

Finally, if Upshaw sold out those guys why the hell is he still in charge of the union? You would think the players would have gotten another guy to do a better deal down the line.

The point is they haven't gotten rid of Gene Upshaw. He's been involved in the NFLPA as a team rep and then a union leader since 1970. He didn't get his panties in a bunch and huff off like Matt Birk did when his pie-in-the-sky pet issue wasn't feasible. Upshaw's in it for the long haul and I respect him for that much.

However, at no point have I said Gene Upshaw is a particularly effective union leader. Had he been a better organizer, the average fan would hate him much worse, because we would have seen work stoppages by now. Upshaw's main problem is he heads a very uninterested and rather unintelligent constituency. This is one reason the NFLPA has always been one of the weaker unions. Those guys break easy.

While I agree in spirit with Birk's (rather trite) "billionaires arguing with millionaires" take, it only shows that he's not a guy who has any business working as a rep in a labor union.

The larger issue here is about revenue sharing among owners. Until their squabble is resolved, not much is going to happen, so why not demonize an individual? Its easier than trying to understand all the sides to a somewhat complicated issue.

If Gene Upshaw is a bad union head, than someone should rise up and replace him. I think he's weak myself, but he's been quite effective at attaining and maintaining power, so what do I know? My major beef with Gene is that he's in the Hall of Fame. Three main reasons Upshaw is in Canton:

1 - He was really durable.
2 - He played next to one of the best OTs ever.
3 - He held on every play.

I'll give an assist to Alan Page for his Super Bowl choke job. Sometimes I wonder if Gene's popularity as a union rep got him some extra player votes when All Pro balloting came around. When I say the guy held on every play, I mean, it was no secret. Every player poll from his era named Upshaw as the biggest holder in the League and number two was a distant second.

[Mediator12]

The point is they haven't gotten rid of Gene Upshaw. He's been involved in the NFLPA as a team rep and then a union leader since 1970. He didn't get his panties in a bunch and huff off like Matt Birk did when his pie-in-the-sky pet issue wasn't feasible. Upshaw's in it for the long haul and I respect him for that much.

However, at no point have I said Gene Upshaw is a particularly effective union leader. Had he been a better organizer, the average fan would hate him much worse, because we would have seen work stoppages by now. Upshaw's main problem is he heads a very uninterested and rather unintelligent constituency. This is one reason the NFLPA has always been one of the weaker unions. Those guys break easy.

While I agree in spirit with Birk's (rather trite) "billionaires arguing with millionaires" take, it only shows that he's not a guy who has any business working as a rep in a labor union.

The larger issue here is about revenue sharing among owners. Until their squabble is resolved, not much is going to happen, so why not demonize an individual? Its easier than trying to understand all the sides to a somewhat complicated issue.

If Gene Upshaw is a bad union head, than someone should rise up and replace him. I think he's weak myself, but he's been quite effective at attaining and maintaining power, so what do I know? My major beef with Gene is that he's in the Hall of Fame. Three main reasons Upshaw is in Canton:

1 - He was really durable.
2 - He played next to one of the best OTs ever.
3 - He held on every play.

I'll give an assist to Alan Page for his Super Bowl choke job. Sometimes I wonder if Gene's popularity as a union rep got him some extra player votes when All Pro balloting came around. When I say the guy held on every play, I mean, it was no secret. Every player poll from his era named Upshaw as the biggest holder in the League and number two was a distant second.

I agree the larger issue is the revenue sharing. Total gross revenue's versus DGR is a huge 500 million issue at the minimum. But getting anything above 50% of revenues is one hell of a deal, let alone 60%. Then they get their entire benefits package paid for as well. If the players are weak in their union, then Upshaw is definitely bluffing too. They will get crushed, again.

[Odysseus]

If Gene Upshaw is a bad union head, than someone should rise up and replace him. I think he's weak myself, but he's been quite effective at attaining and maintaining power, so what do I know? My major beef with Gene is that he's in the Hall of Fame.

How do you replace the Pope? Gene Upshaw can piss on the leg of every NFL player in the league and not be replaced. You honestly think all these college graduate are going to remember anything about when he played? You honestly think the years of stability was due to Gene's dutiful stewardship? Which players have you been talking to? Birk is showboating but his point still stands. What difference does any of this make. There is no dialogue.

I think there is a fundemental shift in how revenue is going to be shared in the NFL from Owners on down. It's obvious. Look at the streamlining of the media sources. Look at how owners want to pilfer each other much less the players. Look at the sudden emphasis in rules based football. Control is more important than fun. Getting a payday is more important than any illusion of loyalty to anything. The league would defend the refs if one pulled out a Tommy Gun and sprayed the opposing bench. As long as no fan was injured.

Birk chunked a bone to the fans and why not? Keep it simple. Follow the money. Show me where Gene has a leg to stand on in this whole disagreement? If the issue is clearly on Gene's side where is it. Has any of the players come out against Matt Birk?

Draw me a map. I don't get the vitriole.

[-Slap-]

How do you replace the Pope? Gene Upshaw can piss on the leg of every NFL player in the league and not be replaced. You honestly think all these college graduate are going to remember anything about when he played? You honestly think the years of stability was due to Gene's dutiful stewardship? Which players have you been talking to? Birk is showboating but his point still stands. What difference does any of this make. There is no dialogue.

I think there is a fundemental shift in how revenue is going to be shared in the NFL from Owners on down. It's obvious. Look at the streamlining of the media sources. Look at how owners want to pilfer each other much less the players. Look at the sudden emphasis in rules based football. Control is more important than fun. Getting a payday is more important than any illusion of loyalty to anything. The league would defend the refs if one pulled out a Tommy Gun and sprayed the opposing bench. As long as no fan was injured.

Birk chunked a bone to the fans and why not? Keep it simple. Follow the money. Show me where Gene has a leg to stand on in this whole disagreement? If the issue is clearly on Gene's side where is it. Has any of the players come out against Matt Birk?

Draw me a map. I don't get the vitriole.
Your map starts at the owners' meetings over revenue sharing, then you simply follow the money.

[eddie mac]

Vikings | Birk apologizes to Upshaw
Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:09:02 -0800

Judd Zulgad, of the Star Tribune, reports Minnesota Vikings C Matt Birk called NFLPA executive director Gene Upshaw to apologize for earlier comments. Birk said he regretted making the less-than-complimentary remark to describe Upshaw. Birk said, "I left him a voice mail apologizing. The union and the players and the game is something I feel passionate about, and I was kind of emotionally charged. I left him my number and hope that he calls me back. It just wasn't a classy thing to do on my part, and I regret it."

[Odysseus]

Somebody got paid. Time to play kissy face. Too funny.

Name me a nicer business than the NFL? I couldn't sell snowcones and have things run this predictable.

Good point Slap.

EDIT: I wish I had time to look more closely at this one. This turned around pretty fast. I want to know whose buying and whose selling on this deal.

[TomServo]

if both sides screwed it up so bad as to shut down the nfl, i'd be pissed but, like the nhl strike,i'd learn fast that i really could do without the nfl.

it cracks me up w/pple try to equate these entertainers with real working pple like say miners or longshoremen. yes, they are in a brutal business but how many of them got a free college education? and what did they do with that oppurtunity? if everyone was 6'10" and could run a 4.2 40 how much $$ would they be worth then?

if the nfl goes the way of mlb with the players in charge, i'll be as much of a fan as i am of mlb-and the nba-which is-i'll watch the playoffs IF i have nothing better to do- like laundry.

[watermock]

The point was uinions can be broken...it's a historical fact, even in the NFL. Or the NHL, or Steel workers, or auto workers...what part don't you get? i'm not pouring judgement on the current situation, but it's been done many, many times so Gene better watch his step.