PFT: Broncos reached deal for Abraham!

[SportinOne]

I lost you. Im sorry but I believe the team will still be good in 4 years with or without those players you named. If we are that worried that we will pick a bust at 29 then fire all the scouts and get new ones that can do their damn jobs.


No one is going to be worried he's a bust.. No one ever looks at top prospects and worries about them being a bust, they see what they did in college and expect that to translate.. most of the time, it doesn't..

John Abraham has made the transition and he has been DOMINATE.

We could be good in four years without him, and the guys i named.. but this is the present, and we are very close right now.. who knows how close we will be in four years even if we are still a "good" team..

i'd say we were "good" last year, and the year before that we were "good" as well, but we were great this year, and we will be again next year.. the one weakness this team has that is GLARING is an intimidating pass rush. We wouldn't be blitzing 8 freaking guys if our original 4 could get it done in the first place, that's just the cold hard truth.

It's not just the 10 sacks a year JA will give us.. it's the consistancy with which he gets in the qb's face or knocks him down, it's his speed off the edge that makes that QB think about getting rid of it that much quicker, instead of sitting in the pocket waiting for coverage to break down.

i see your points, and i'm not saying your way wouldn't work, but the future is very uncertain, and it becomes ever more cloudy the further you try to see.

[NFLBRONCO]

WTF? Im tired of building for the future. We are not a team that builds for the future anymore. we were that 3 damn years ago. We are now once again a team to compete for a championship. We are one or two players away from dominating the nfl. How could you tell me after getting to the AFC Championship game that we need to build for the future. That's insane! It is a tough afc and we are one of the best in it. why would you build for the future when we are one or two guys away? builing for the future with this team would make us mediocore.

I see your point and I understand your side great point. I love what we did last year. The AFC has alot of great teams its not a sure thing any year. I'm not saying we can't win in the next few years. I look at our last three playoff losses it was ugly it showed we are farther away then 2 players because we got manhandled.

I think we need upgrades at DT FS WR that's 3 players away even with JA. Then with fragile Brown at DE he might not last like he did this year.

[baja]

I'm not going to read 11 pages

did we make this bad deal or not???

[DBroncos4life]

No one is going to be worried he's a bust.. No one ever looks at top prospects and worries about them being a bust, they see what they did in college and expect that to translate.. most of the time, it doesn't..

John Abraham has made the transition and he has been DOMINATE.

We could be good in four years without him, and the guys i named.. but this is the present, and we are very close right now.. who knows how close we will be in four years even if we are still a "good" team..

i'd say we were "good" last year, and the year before that we were "good" as well, but we were great this year, and we will be again next year.. the one weakness this team has that is GLARING is an intimidating pass rush. We wouldn't be blitzing 8 freaking guys if our original 4 could get it done in the first place, that's just the cold hard truth.

It's not just the 10 sacks a year JA will give us.. it's the consistancy with which he gets in the qb's face or knocks him down, it's his speed off the edge that makes that QB think about getting rid of it that much quicker, instead of sitting in the pocket waiting for coverage to break down.

i see your points, and i'm not saying your way wouldn't work, but the future is very uncertain, and it becomes ever more cloudy the further you try to see.
He isn't dominate though. Hes posted very good numbers but like I said he isn't on Peppers, Freeney, Strahan, Rice, or Taylors level. Maybe he will but right now he is just a good DE.

[SportinOne]

officially no, but my gut tells me.. i'm in the mood for a good hamburger

[baja]

Lets get Carter if we are going FA at this position

[Clockwork Orange]

Lets get Carter if we are going FA at this position

http://www.theretropostershop.com/Images/450x320/getCarter.jpg

[SportinOne]

He isn't dominate though. Hes posted very good numbers but like I said he isn't on Peppers, Freeney, Strahan, Rice, or Taylors level. Maybe he will but right now he is just a good DE.

I don't know if you read my earlier post, but the guy is a 96 on Madden!

They don't just hand those ratings out to anyone, man.

:strong:

kidding.... kidding..

Off to bed, finally.

[Dudeskey]

I'm not going to read 11 pages

did we make this bad deal or not???

Really. PFT usually is a load of bull****, but I'll admit I'm curious. And if these hacks @ PFT are correct, I'd say Schefter is slippin'...™

[NFLBRONCO]

If this does go through for JA. Does this mean a offensive draft?

[DBroncos4life]

I don't know if you read my earlier post, but the guy is a 96 on Madden!

They don't just hand those ratings out to anyone, man.

:strong:

kidding.... kidding..

Off to bed, finally.
I had something to say about that, it went like this.

Wow Im sold, I mean he is a 96 on a video game ROFL! get'er done Mike.

[Dudeskey]

If this does go through for JA. Does this mean a offensive draft?

Perhaps... Hopefully draft a TE in round 1 and go defense in round 2 (S or DL)

[NFLBRONCO]

If we can add some major offensive firepower as well I'd be cooler having JA here.

[Gcver2ver3]

I've seen nothing confirmed that Abraham is a done deal...

in fact it probably couldn't be until we know how the CBA deal comes out...


So until I see that this comes true...then I may be finished with posting PFT rumors onto threads.....


(or not).....:wiggle:

[-Slap-]

Obviously if we get him we would give him big money and give the jets a draft pick. he's a good player. do you think guys like this come cheap? why chance it in the draft when we could get him. We have all been saying this offseason we need a dominant pass rusher. Well heres our chance, and people are compaining about what it will cost us. He would be worth it.
In other words, you're admitting the comparison to the Neil Smith and Alfred Williams signings was inapplicable and pointless. Gotcha.

[Clockwork Orange]

why chance it in the draft when we could get him.

Maybe because we haven't "chanced it" in the first round on a D-lineman in 9 years. The last time they bothered to go that route they came up with some guy named Trevor Pryce. It's been nearly a decade, let's "chance it" on another 1st round D-lineman. Just for fun.

[bronco militia]

I've seen nothing confirmed that Abraham is a done deal...

in fact it probably couldn't be until we know how the CBA deal comes out...


So until I see that this comes true...then I may be finished with posting PFT rumors onto threads.....


(or not).....:wiggle:


http://gprime.net/flash.php/postingandyou

[Clockwork Orange]

According to Jets fans, John Clayton on ESPN said that the Lions are now interested in Abraham. His rumor is that they're offering the 9th pick in the draft for Abraham and the Jets 3rd rounder.

That'd be a signature Matt Millen move right there.

[ludo21]

According to Jets fans, John Clayton on ESPN said that the Lions are now interested in Abraham. His rumor is that they're offering the 9th pick in the draft for Abraham and the Jets 3rd rounder.

That'd be a signature Matt Millen move right there.


Ha!

wow, if that deal goes thru that would be absolutely terrible for the lions.

That kind of deal seems like a deal taht benefit the jets to move to the #1 pick this year

[Clockwork Orange]

Ha!

wow, if that deal goes thru that would be absolutely terrible for the lions.

That kind of deal seems like a deal taht benefit the jets to move to the #1 pick this year

Millen probably can't find a receiver he likes enough to take at #9 so he's decided to trade out instead.

[ludo21]

Millen probably can't find a receiver he likes enough to take at #9 so he's decided to trade out instead.

yeah Chad Jackson at 9 might raise some eyebrows.

Davis could be available at 9, and adding them to that potent 3 some would be insane! Martz could easily find a spot for him.

[WABronco]

Millen probably can't find a receiver he likes enough to take at #9 so he's decided to trade out instead.

If that's our competition for this guy then F it. Now way I give up more than 29 for Abe...

Use 29 on Wimbley or Wroten.

[TheDave]

According to Jets fans, John Clayton on ESPN said that the Lions are now interested in Abraham. His rumor is that they're offering the 9th pick in the draft for Abraham and the Jets 3rd rounder.

That'd be a signature Matt Millen move right there.

and to think some of us were pissed at giving up #29... Wow

[-Slap-]

I can't believe I'm counting on Matt Millen to save me.

[Gcver2ver3]

http://gprime.net/flash.php/postingandyou


i guess i should be insulted....but i was too busy laughing to be....

good stuff militia.....

[Play2win]

I can't believe I'm counting on Matt Millen to save me.
Thats true Irony there. The guy you hate is the guy thats going to (supposedly) save us...

[-Slap-]

Thats true Irony there. The guy you hate is the guy thats going to (supposedly) save us...
What until he finds out Dishonest Abe is a devout coward.

[WABronco]

PFT.com--One of the things we're hearing in the aftermath of the first wave of cap cuts is that some of the players in Carolina are happy to see defensive tackle Brentson Buckner go.

Though always good for a compelling quote, a lot of his teammates didn't like him.

Buckner had toyed with the possibility of retiring, but had decided to play another year, at least. If he's going to do so, he'll need to find another team.



More fuel to the Brentson Buckner "fire.":giggle:

[Gcver2ver3]

PFT.com--One of the things we're hearing in the aftermath of the first wave of cap cuts is that some of the players in Carolina are happy to see defensive tackle Brentson Buckner go.

Though always good for a compelling quote, a lot of his teammates didn't like him.

Buckner had toyed with the possibility of retiring, but had decided to play another year, at least. If he's going to do so, he'll need to find another team.



More fuel to the Brentson Buckner "fire.":giggle:



we already have our comedy relief with keith burns...

so buckner serves no purpose with us.....

[-Slap-]

PFT.com--One of the things we're hearing in the aftermath of the first wave of cap cuts is that some of the players in Carolina are happy to see defensive tackle Brentson Buckner go.

Though always good for a compelling quote, a lot of his teammates didn't like him.

Buckner had toyed with the possibility of retiring, but had decided to play another year, at least. If he's going to do so, he'll need to find another team.



More fuel to the Brentson Buckner "fire.":giggle:

Not uncommon for really quotable guys to be unpopular in the lockerroom. Teammates get sick of watching a guy try to work the media day after day.

[baja]

What until he finds out Dishonest Abe is a devout coward.

"Devout coward"

great turn of a phrase.... LMFAOROTF

[SoCalBronco]

Please save us from this predicament, Detroit.

[SpringStein]

Please save us from this predicament, Detroit.

Amen.

[elsid13]

Well Bronco Billy has taken care of the us in the past, hopefully he will again

[Popps]

Maybe because we haven't "chanced it" in the first round on a D-lineman in 9 years. The last time they bothered to go that route they came up with some guy named Trevor Pryce. It's been nearly a decade, let's "chance it" on another 1st round D-lineman. Just for fun.


A-freaking-men.

Add to that, we haven't gone out and gotten serious about the position in free agency in the last 9 years, either. I've been blabbing about across multiple Broncos boards for nearly a freaking decade.

Who were our last three truly effective linemen?


-Alfred Williams: A first round draft pick of the Bengals who came to Denver via free-agency and a fat contract.

Neil Smith: High profile free agent signing for big $$.

Trevor Pryce: First round pick.

Add in M.D. Perry if you want to go back a little... also a big $$ signing.

Keith Traylor might have been our biggest bargain, and he wasn't cheap.

We need to stop dicking around with the DE position. Bring in Ahraham and draft a DE with our other first round pick. Abraham will immediately provide exactly what we're lacking. So he'll cost some money... big deal. What... are we saving up for ice cream or something?

We went to the AFC championship game and lost because we can't pressure the QB. Get ****ing serious about it and get some guys in here that can play.

[DBroncos4life]

The lions must not think they can get Edwards back, whic is a total dumb move by them.

[Mr. Trout]

A-freaking-men.

Add to that, we haven't gone out and gotten serious about the position in free agency in the last 9 years, either. I've been blabbing about across multiple Broncos boards for nearly a freaking decade.

Who were our last three truly effective linemen?


-Alfred Williams: A first round draft pick of the Bengals who came to Denver via free-agency and a fat contract.

Neil Smith: High profile free agent signing for big $$.

Trevor Pryce: First round pick.

Add in M.D. Perry if you want to go back a little... also a big $$ signing.

Keith Traylor might have been our biggest bargain, and he wasn't cheap.

We need to stop dicking around with the DE position. Bring in Ahraham and draft a DE with our other first round pick. Abraham will immediately provide exactly what we're lacking. So he'll cost some money... big deal. What... are we saving up for ice cream or something?

We went to the AFC championship game and lost because we can't pressure the QB. Get ****ing serious about it and get some guys in here that can play.


excellent post. People on this board sometimes act as if they have to pay the players.

[SoCalBronco]

A-freaking-men.

Add to that, we haven't gone out and gotten serious about the position in free agency in the last 9 years, either. I've been blabbing about across multiple Broncos boards for nearly a freaking decade.

Who were our last three truly effective linemen?


-Alfred Williams: A first round draft pick of the Bengals who came to Denver via free-agency and a fat contract.

Neil Smith: High profile free agent signing for big $$.

Trevor Pryce: First round pick.

Add in M.D. Perry if you want to go back a little... also a big $$ signing.

Keith Traylor might have been our biggest bargain, and he wasn't cheap.

We need to stop dicking around with the DE position. Bring in Ahraham and draft a DE with our other first round pick. Abraham will immediately provide exactly what we're lacking. So he'll cost some money... big deal. What... are we saving up for ice cream or something?

We went to the AFC championship game and lost because we can't pressure the QB. Get ****ing serious about it and get some guys in here that can play.

I understand your frustration Popps, but this is a bad deal. Abraham will be 28 this season. Not good. That means about 3 years of good play. He also has an injury history. He also will weaken our run defense. This draft is absolutely loaded. Giving away the 29th pick in this draft is like giving up the 12th pick last year.

We dont need to absorb another big salary. If he was a little younger, a little less injury prone and the draft was weaker, than it might be an idea. But this is not a good trade. Hopefully we get outbid or the deal fails for some other reason.

[Popps]

I understand your frustration Popps, but this is a bad deal. Abraham will be 28 this season..

... the prime of most players' career is late 20s/early 30s. Smith and Williams were both in their 30s when we won our SBs.

That means about 3 years of good play.

Great, that means 3 years of good play out of ONE of our linemen.

He also will weaken our run defense.

We're overloaded with guys who can play the run and not the pass. I don't think having one guy who's specialty is rushing the passer is going to kill us. The staff isn't stupid. I'm sure they'll work around the problem of having a double-digit sack pass-rusher with a knack for creating turnovers.

This draft is absolutely loaded. Giving away the 29th pick in this draft is like giving up the 12th pick last year.

That's pure speculation. Abraham offers something we're sorely lacking, and he's proven it. Plus, we'd still have a first round pick. (That's assuming we even have to spend a #1 to get him.)

We dont need to absorb another big salary. If he was a little younger, a little less injury prone and the draft was weaker

Someone posted his injury history. Look it up. It's not nearly as bad as some people think. After his rookie season, he's played in all 16 games 3 of 5 games, and 12 games in another. He had one very bad season where he missed half the games.

Hopefully we get outbid or the deal fails for some other reason.

So that way we'd have a couple of unproven commodities we picked up in the draft that we still have to pay a ton, given they're first rounders.

Every single draft guru I've heard/read says Williams is about the only can't-miss Dline prospect. Everything else is highly speculative.
Personally, I'd rather take a chance on a guy who has PROVEN he can fill a void we have, as opposed to waiting 3 years for a questionable draft pick to pan out. Meanwhile, guys like Rod Smith and John Lynch are in the old-folks home.

[DBroncos4life]

Did anyone see the deal my boy KVB just signed? I bet Abe did. Something tells me that guys like Kalimba Edwards, Andre Carter, Lance Johnstone, and Darren Howard will come cheaper and without the cost of a first rounder. Even if they are NEAR the same as Abe, we still have our extra first rounder. Everyone of those players but Edawards has posted plus 10 sacks in a year.

[Popps]

Did anyone see the deal my boy KVB just signed? I bet Abe did. Something tells me that guys like Kalimba Edwards, Andre Carter, Lance Johnstone, and Darren Howard will come cheaper and without the cost of a first rounder. Even if they are NEAR the same as Abe, we still have our extra first rounder. Everyone of those players but Edawards has posted plus 10 sacks in a year.

Every one of those guys comes with either major question marks, or in the twilight of their career.

I do like the Andre Carter idea, but only if we try to hedge that bet with TWO first round D-line picks and maybe another FA stab.

This organization routinely gets the players they want signed to smart contracts. I'm not sure why no one thinks we could do the same thing with Abraham.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Popps,

I am on board with you 100% in regards to Abraham.

SSJ

[Clockwork Orange]

Every one of those guys comes with either major question marks, or in the twilight of their career.

Are you saying that you don't think that Abraham comes with major question marks?

[WABronco]

The lions must not think they can get Edwards back, whic is a total dumb move by them.

JC said that Millen's thinking that Abe would be the pass rusher "they've always needed." I think they're trying to improve over Kalimba, who would be a great pick up if Detroit goes through with this.

[DBroncos4life]

Every one of those guys comes with either major question marks, or in the twilight of their career.

I do like the Andre Carter idea, but only if we try to hedge that bet with TWO first round D-line picks and maybe another FA stab.

This organization routinely gets the players they want signed to smart contracts. I'm not sure why no one thinks we could do the same thing with Abraham.
Johnstone is no different then the two guys you brought up before in Williams and Smith. Sure he is the older of the 4 guys I brought up but he still is playing at a higher level. He at the very least gives us a guy just in case the rookie we draft needs more time to go along with the guys we have now that are talented. Johnstone has 29 sacks over the last three years. He is the only stop gap player I brought up.
Howard is the second oldest guy, he turns 30 in November. A guy that could give us maybe one less year then Abe. Of the 4 I believe he is the guy that would miss the most amount of games but on the flip side he plays the run and rushes the passer better then either of the guys I brought up.
Edwards is the guy that would be a "risk" I guess. He turns 27 in December so he would give us the same amount of years as Abe but at a much cheaper rate. It looks like he is a guy that is brought in to rush the passer. The Lions have two RDEs that they like to play. He has two seasons of 7 sacks and one with 5. Not great but not bad either. He still has room to improve as well.
Carter is the best out of the group in my opinion. He turns 27 in may. He has only reached over 10 sacks once but he has two other seasons with 7. He would be the guy I would want and it would still give us a guy to get after the QB, while keeping our draft picks.

I might be the only one to share this opinion but I believe our scheme kind of took sacks away from the DLine at times and I really believe because Pryce lost too much speed is another reason why our sacks went down. I saw Pryce chasing QBs down that in years past he would have got. If I had it my way I would tell Courtney Brown to drop 15 pounds and move him to RDE and let Ebenezer Ekuban play LDE.

[DBroncos4life]

JC said that Millen's thinking that Abe would be the pass rusher "they've always needed." I think they're trying to improve over Kalimba, who would be a great pick up if Detroit goes through with this.
Yeah it must suck to need to replace a guy that had 7 sacks last year with a guy that had only 3.5 more then him, all while losing a top ten pick. All this tells me is there isn't a WR that Millen would draft in the top ten this year.

[Paladin]

That's what I like: a nice, quiet, sensible draft....... The Jests up there with 2 would make a mess of the draft predictions, wouldn't it?

[DBroncos4life]

The two RDE's listed for the Lions are James Hall and Kalimba Edwards. Now I don't claim to know if they both played that position rotating in or out or if one played on the left side. On the depth chart it has them both listed on the right side with Cory Redding on the left, who played in the games per espn. The NFL.com team page has it listed the same.

Edwards/Hall 92 TOTs, 12 sacks, 5 FFs and 3 PD
Abraham 58 TOTs, 10.5 sacks, 6 FFs and 2 PD

I can see why Millen doesn't think thats working. Hilarious!

[Gcver2ver3]

... the prime of most players' career is late 20s/early 30s. Smith and Williams were both in their 30s when we won our SBs.



Great, that means 3 years of good play out of ONE of our linemen.



We're overloaded with guys who can play the run and not the pass. I don't think having one guy who's specialty is rushing the passer is going to kill us. The staff isn't stupid. I'm sure they'll work around the problem of having a double-digit sack pass-rusher with a knack for creating turnovers.



That's pure speculation. Abraham offers something we're sorely lacking, and he's proven it. Plus, we'd still have a first round pick. (That's assuming we even have to spend a #1 to get him.)



Someone posted his injury history. Look it up. It's not nearly as bad as some people think. After his rookie season, he's played in all 16 games 3 of 5 games, and 12 games in another. He had one very bad season where he missed half the games.



So that way we'd have a couple of unproven commodities we picked up in the draft that we still have to pay a ton, given they're first rounders.

Every single draft guru I've heard/read says Williams is about the only can't-miss Dline prospect. Everything else is highly speculative.
Personally, I'd rather take a chance on a guy who has PROVEN he can fill a void we have, as opposed to waiting 3 years for a questionable draft pick to pan out. Meanwhile, guys like Rod Smith and John Lynch are in the old-folks home.



good post popps

[watermock]

Bad post actually...this guy is like Pryce, and wants his pudding...I'm not paying an oldie 8 million. Alot of players have injuries, but he's had more than his share and we are not under the cap enough to lick his balls.

There is no reason to play this guy except we haven't drafted a real DE pass rusher, then let Berry just walk off.

[Obushma]

Your telling me you want to pick up a guy who just sat out two years ago because he was injured, give up good money, and a first round pick?

Your the same people who will come back bitching "What the **** were we thinking picking up an injury prone DE." You guys are out of your god damn minds, seriously. We have a chance to draft a young DE for half the money, who could be a superstar in Denver the rest of his career. Yet you want to go and blow that pick on a aging, injury prone, expensive DE. The way I see it we are taking a chance either way we go and i'd rather do it for less money.

[NFLBRONCO]

Your telling me you want to pick up a guy who just sat out two years ago because he was injured, give up good money, and a first round pick?

Your the same people who will come back b****ing "What the **** were we thinking picking up an injury prone DE." You guys are out of your god damn minds, seriously. We have a chance to draft a young DE for half the money, who could be a superstar in Denver the rest of his career. Yet you want to go and blow that pick on a aging, injury prone, expensive DE. The way I see it we are taking a chance either way we go and i'd rather do it for less money.


AMEN :)

[SoCalBronco]

Your telling me you want to pick up a guy who just sat out two years ago because he was injured, give up good money, and a first round pick?

Your the same people who will come back b****ing "What the **** were we thinking picking up an injury prone DE." You guys are out of your god damn minds, seriously. We have a chance to draft a young DE for half the money, who could be a superstar in Denver the rest of his career. Yet you want to go and blow that pick on a aging, injury prone, expensive DE. The way I see it we are taking a chance either way we go and i'd rather do it for less money.

Damn good post.

[Atlas]

A-freaking-men.

Add to that, we haven't gone out and gotten serious about the position in free agency in the last 9 years, either. I've been blabbing about across multiple Broncos boards for nearly a freaking decade.

Who were our last three truly effective linemen?


-Alfred Williams: A first round draft pick of the Bengals who came to Denver via free-agency and a fat contract.

Neil Smith: High profile free agent signing for big $$.

Trevor Pryce: First round pick.

Add in M.D. Perry if you want to go back a little... also a big $$ signing.

Keith Traylor might have been our biggest bargain, and he wasn't cheap.

We need to stop dicking around with the DE position. Bring in Ahraham and draft a DE with our other first round pick. Abraham will immediately provide exactly what we're lacking. So he'll cost some money... big deal. What... are we saving up for ice cream or something?

We went to the AFC championship game and lost because we can't pressure the QB. Get ****ing serious about it and get some guys in here that can play.

The two years McGlockton was here he played well too.

Jelly sucked however.

[Gcver2ver3]

Bad post actually...this guy is like Pryce, and wants his pudding...I'm not paying an oldie 8 million. Alot of players have injuries, but he's had more than his share and we are not under the cap enough to lick his balls.

There is no reason to play this guy except we haven't drafted a real DE pass rusher, then let Berry just walk off.


no its a good post....(actually)

the guy is 27....that's an oldie?

he turns 28 this year...he's in his prime...

there is nobody at #29 of abraham's calibur.....

[DBroncos4life]

no its a good post....(actually)

the guy is 27....that's an oldie?

he turns 28 this year...he's in his prime...

there is nobody at #29 of abraham's calibur.....
How do you know there isn't anyone of Abe's calibur at 29 even more so how do you know that a good DE won't be on the board at 22 allowing us to go a different way at 29?

[Atlas]

How do you know there isn't anyone of Abe's calibur at 29 even more so how do you know that a good DE won't be on the board at 22 allowing us to go a different way at 29?

It's pretty safe to say that there is no one at 29 that will help Denver this year as much as Abe will do. Denver is close to a SB. They don't want to build for the furture..... The future is now. Bring him in and let's win a Superbowl!!

[Obushma]

no its a good post....(actually)

the guy is 27....that's an oldie?

he turns 28 this year...he's in his prime...

there is nobody at #29 of abraham's calibur.....

You one of those guys who wears his name on his belt?

If not you need to buy one so when you pull your head out of your ass you can remember what your name is.

This would be a god awful trade. How can you consider the risk/reward of this trade better then drafting a young DE in a damn deep draft?

[DBroncos4life]

Crap it would really suck to walk out of the draft with Kiwi, sure he had a down year with only 9.5 sacks (yeah only). Sorry that he couldn't match is 04 totals of 11.5 or his 03 totals of 11.5 but what can a man do. I don't know if I would like walking out of the draft with a guy that had 37.5 sacks in 4 years of college. We better trade for Abe.

[DBroncos4life]

It's pretty safe to say that there is no one at 29 that will help Denver this year as much as Abe will do. Denver is close to a SB. They don't want to build for the furture..... The future is now. Bring him in and let's win a Superbowl!!

In 2005 the Steelers drafted Heath Miller. He was picked at 30. I wonder just how much his 39 catches, 459 yards and 6 TDs helped them to reach their goal? Im sure his 3 catches 61 yards and his TD helped power them over the Colts, not to mention really opened that game up for the running game.

This draft is deeper too.

[Clockwork Orange]

Crap it would really suck to walk out of the draft with Kiwi, sure he had a down year with only 9.5 sacks (yeah only). Sorry that he couldn't match is 04 totals of 11.5 or his 03 totals of 11.5 but what can a man do. I don't know if I would like walking out of the draft with a guy that had 37.5 sacks in 4 years of college. We better trade for Abe.

I couldn't agree more. Only 9.5 sacks while facing constant double teams from every opponent? Who needs that?

[Atlas]

In 2005 the Steelers drafted Heath Miller. He was picked at 30. I wonder just how much his 39 catches, 459 yards and 6 TDs helped them to reach their goal? Im sure his 3 catches 61 yards and his TD helped power them over the Colts, not to mention really opened that game up for the running game.

This draft is deeper too.

WTH does Heath Miller a TE have to do with anything??

If Algae Crumpler was a Free agent and the Steelers had a chance to get him than that would be an approrpriate comparison. Heath Miller might one day be better than Crumpler but Algae would have made a much bigger impact on last years Steeler's team than Miller's awe inspiring 39 catches.

[DBroncos4life]

WTH does Heath Miller a TE have to do with anything??

If Algae Crumpler was a Free agent and the Steelers had a chance to get him than that would be an approrpriate comparison. Heath Miller might one day be better than Crumpler but Algae would have made a much bigger impact on last years Steeler's team than Miller's awe inspiring 39 catches.
Well it has lots to do with it. You claimed that if we held onto the 29th pick he couldn't help us win the SB. I brought up a guy that was picked 30th in the draft that went onto help his team win the SB that year. Also I don't believe that Crumpler would have been that much better then Miller, reason being that Pitt isn't much of a passing team and that they don't use the TE as much as others do. Still my point stands that a guy picked around where we are set to draft did in fact impact his team during the year. If you remember the Indy playoff game it was the use of Miller early that really opened the the game up for Pitt. This draft is deeper then last years draft as well.
We might not get the same impact from the guy we draft at 29 then what Abe could bring for us this year, but Im willing to bet if you factor in the cost of the Abe, vs the 29th pick and another vet that we bring in because we can afford him the value would be equal.

[Popps]

Once again...

Depending on who you believe, this draft somewhere between sub-par and marginal when it comes to d-line talent, particularly DE talent. Williams is as close as there is to a "can't miss"... and even he comes with question marks.

There is NO proof that any of the first round d-linemen can come in and have a major impact, immediately... which is what we need.

Abraham has PROVEN he can produce exactly what we're LACKING.

"He's injury prone"

He played in all 16 games last year, and 12 the year before. He's played in 16 games 3 out of 5 years after his rookie season. He has missed 4 games over the last two season.

Abraham had 10.5 sacks last year.. our ENTIRE DEFENSIVE LINE had 16... and that's including our back-ups.

He also forced 6 fumbles.... more than anyone on our defensive line.

He had 44 tackles...... you got it, more than anyone on our defensive line.

"He's aging"

Huh? He's 28. Champ Bailey is 28. Should we dump him, too? Anyone remember the average age of our defensive line when we won our championships? Most NFL players peak in their late 20s, early 30s. (Save maybe some RBs who are beaten up.) Jason Taylor... Michael Strahan... Simeon Rice.... all older than Abraham and all highly productive.

"We'll have to pay him"

Welcome to having a productive pass-rusher. Anyone checked out Bailey's paychecks lately? Like his production? You guys think we're going to get a premiere pass-rusher for Monsanto Pope money?

Call me crazy... I'd rather take a chance on a guy who has shown he can play than a 22nd pick in a so-so defensive line draft. Plus, we could still trade for Abraham AND draft 1st round help. Everybody wins.

[ozomulsion]

Once again...

Depending on who you believe, this draft somewhere between sub-par and marginal when it comes to d-line talent, particularly DE talent. Williams is as close as there is to a "can't miss"... and even he comes with question marks.

There is NO proof that any of the first round d-linemen can come in and have a major impact, immediately... which is what we need.

Abraham has PROVEN he can produce exactly what we're LACKING.

"He's injury prone"

He played in all 16 games last year, and 12 the year before. He's played in 16 games 3 out of 5 years after his rookie season. He has missed 4 games over the last two season.

Abraham 14 sacks last year.. our ENTIRE DEFENSIVE LINE had 16... and that's including our back-ups.

He also forced 6 fumbles.... more than anyone on our defensive line.

He had 44 tackles...... you got it, more than anyone on our defensive line.

"He's aging"

Huh? He's 28. Champ Bailey is 28. Should we dump him, too? Anyone remember the average age of our defensive line when we won our championships? Most NFL players peak in their late 20s, early 30s. (Save maybe some RBs who are beaten up.) Jason Taylor... Michael Strahan... Simeon Rice.... all older than Abraham and all highly productive.

"We'll have to pay him"

Welcome to having a productive pass-rusher. Anyone checked out Bailey's paychecks lately? Like his production? You guys think we're going to get a premiere pass-rusher for Monsanto Pope money?

Call me crazy... I'd rather take a chance on a guy who has shown he can play than a 22nd pick in a so-so defensive line draft. Plus, we could still trade for Abraham AND draft 1st round help. Everybody wins.

Very good post, Abraham had 10.5 sacks last year though.

[DBroncos4life]

I don't buy into the can't miss player talk but I still believe that there are a number of DEs that will get the job done in the NFL. If what sorry Big Guy said about them giving us a third with the trade then it becomes a much better trade. I know you have to pay to get players, I don't have a problem with that. Its the trading of the first round pick in a very deep draft that gets me.

[Play2win]

This is a very deep draft. I would be much happier giving up a 3rd for JA. Its not like the guy doesn't have questions, he's got plenty of them, probably more than some draft picks, so it is definitly a gamble, but is it a wise one...

I'd say its a good gamble for a 3rd (or a 4th), but not for a first, especially considering the strength of this draft...

[Popps]

Very good post, Abraham had 10.5 sacks last year though.

You're right, my bad... was looking at his assists.

I'll still take 10.5, 44 tackles, 14 assists and 6 forced fumbles.

Think he's got a knack for being around the ball?

[ludo21]

I see both sides of the argument, and could really go both ways:

1. At pick 29 or 22 for that matter, who is at Abes caliber? He gives us an IMPACT right away. Apart from MArio, no other DL on this draft will do that imo.

2. WHAT?!?!? this draft is deep, and with pick 22 and 29 we can grab 2 great future DL.

See what i mean.... either way, im game. But im leaning towards Abe as of now.

[GreatBronco16]

Can we not just try to trade up, grab the best DE in the draft, and just start him telling him his only job is to go get the QB? What is this talk about making our run defense weaker? I thought our LBs and DTs were our run stoppers, not to mention Lynch. Why can we not just have a guy who's only job is to get to the QB by any means possible? I know I would like a DE like that, no matter what their name was.

[Popps]

This is a very deep draft. I would be much happier giving up a 3rd for JA. Its not like the guy doesn't have questions, he's got plenty of them, probably more than some draft picks, so it is definitly a gamble, but is it a wise one...

I'd say its a good gamble for a 3rd (or a 4th), but not for a first, especially considering the strength of this draft...

I actually think we might be able to get it done with LESS than a first round pick, but a 3rd or 4th might be asking a lot.

As for his question marks... there's no logical way to make a case that he's got MORE than a draft pick. Draft picks, by their very nature, are filled with question marks.

Think of how many d-linemen are drafted every year.

Then, think of how many go on to have double-digit sack seasons. (With productive tackle/other numbers.)

Then, think of how many of those draft picks who DID have big impact seasons did it in their first season.. or even their second.

Again, we've got draft picks to play with. Why not bring in a guy who we KNOW can perform at this level, AND draft some early help? It makes perfect sense.

[Popps]

I see both sides of the argument, and could really go both ways:

1. At pick 29 or 22 for that matter, who is at Abes caliber? He gives us an IMPACT right away. Apart from MArio, no other DL on this draft will do that imo.

2. WHAT?!?!? this draft is deep, and with pick 22 and 29 we can grab 2 great future DL.

See what i mean.... either way, im game. But im leaning towards Abe as of now.

I'd be all for trading both picks to get Williams. He looks like a monster.
Then, we could sign Carter as a FA. That's another combo of moves I like.

[GreatBronco16]

You're right, my bad... was looking at his assists.

I'll still take 10.5, 44 tackles, 14 assists and 6 forced fumbles.

Think he's got a knack for being around the ball?

But at what price? Denver will have to pick up that Franchise offer will they not? Then what? He has a great year in Denver, then wants even more money. You really think Shanny will give him a fat contract? Do we go with a possible one year rental, or do we see if we can draft someone who can put up great numbers at half the price for 3 times the amount of time that Abe could be here?

[Northman]

Again, we've got draft picks to play with. Why not bring in a guy who we KNOW can perform at this level, AND draft some early help? It makes perfect sense.

Again, i think it comes down to character issues. Abe pretty much bailed on his team by not wanting to get hurt so he could get a big payday. We all know that TO can ball too but is a headcase. If **** goes wrong than all Abraham becomes is another IHOP. It all depends on what your willing to put up with to get them here. I for one would just like to get a player who isnt going to cry or bail on the team if **** doesnt go their way. Oh, thats right the Broncos are different as we made stars out of Carter and IHOP.

[Popps]

Bad post actually...this guy is like Pryce, and wants his pudding...I'm not paying an oldie 8 million. Alot of players have injuries, but he's had more than his share and we are not under the cap enough to lick his balls.

There is no reason to play this guy except we haven't drafted a real DE pass rusher, then let Berry just walk off.

Since when is 28 over the hill? Do a cursory search of our current biggest playmakers.

Make a top 10 list of our current most valuable players. I'll bet you most, if not all of them are over 28.

I agree about the 8 mil part. But, think about it... we routinely sign guys to smart contracts. Why would this be any different? WE would set a contract that worked for us, he'd re-structure with NY, and we'd bring him in. It won't be for 8 mil this season, trust me.

Also agree on Berry. I wanted to keep him. Thought he was a little pricey, but that's just how it goes. For whatever reason, people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that premiere pass-rushers come with a hefty price tag. This is not like the RB position where we can just plug guys in and see results.

[Popps]

But at what price? Denver will have to pick up that Franchise offer will they not? Then what? He has a great year in Denver, then wants even more money. You really think Shanny will give him a fat contract? Do we go with a possible one year rental, or do we see if we can draft someone who can put up great numbers at half the price for 3 times the amount of time that Abe could be here?

My understanding is that he'd re-structure with NY, then would be traded. I could be wrong. But, we're obviously in no cap condition to take on a 8M hit right now, so I highly, highly doubt we'd trade for him without some kind of contract restructuring.

[Popps]

Are you saying that you don't think that Abraham comes with major question marks?

All players come with question marks. I've already posted a few times that I'm aware of the risk with Abraham. The difference is, he has shown ability at the NFL level to be a major contributor and more effective than any of our DEs. These kids coming out of college have not.

We need some immediate impact and it is only in EXTREMELY rare occasions that you see a rookie DE provide that.

[Smilin Assassin]

All players come with question marks. I've already posted a few times that I'm aware of the risk with Abraham. The difference is, he has shown ability at the NFL level to be a major contributor and more effective than any of our DEs. These kids coming out of college have not.

We need some immediate impact and it is only in EXTREMELY rare occasions that you see a rookie DE provide that.


Hafta agree, there. Especially where we will be drafting.

Now if we could somehow convince 21 other teams that Mario Edwards sucks......

[Lestat]

Hafta agree, there. Especially where we will be drafting.

Now if we could somehow convince 21 other teams that Mario Edwards sucks......

Mario Edwards does suck, can't cover a WR for nothing


Mario Williams from NC State however is a stud DE in the mold of Julius Peppers :)