Tape: Bush, Chertoff Warned Before Katrina [Archive] - The Orange Mane

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-01-2006, 05:53 PM

By MARGARET EBRAHIM and JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writers 1 hour, 35 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - In dramatic and sometimes agonizing terms, federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees, put lives at risk in New Orleans' Superdome and overwhelm rescuers, according to confidential video footage.

Bush didn't ask a single question during the final briefing before Katrina struck on Aug. 29, but he assured soon-to-be-battered state officials: "We are fully prepared."

The footage — along with seven days of transcripts of briefings obtained by The Associated Press — show in excruciating detail that while federal officials anticipated the tragedy that unfolded in New Orleans and elsewhere along the Gulf Coast, they were fatally slow to realize they had not mustered enough resources to deal with the unprecedented disaster.

Linked by secure video, Bush's confidence on Aug. 28 starkly contrasts with the dire warnings his disaster chief and a cacophony of federal, state and local officials provided during the four days before the storm.

Full story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060301/ap_on_go_pr_wh/katrina_video

Spider

03-01-2006, 06:26 PM

I saw the Video @ http://www.crooksandliars.com
Man Bush is full of shít , but guys like DBruleu will keep on blowing Bush ......

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-01-2006, 06:34 PM

Man Bush is full of shít , but guys like DBruleu will keep on blowing Bush ......

It's creepy to watch, isn't it?

Reality and/or the facts never intrude on his perceptions of Bush.

Even some of the hardcore bush blowers are off the bandwagon, but DBruleU still comes in here on his high horse talking yang like Bush is at 80% or something.

Talk about living in a permanent state of denial and delusion. :oyvey:

Spider

03-01-2006, 06:37 PM

It's creepy to watch, isn't it?

Reality and/or the facts never intrude on his perceptions of Bush.

Even some of the hardcore bush blowers are off the bandwagon, but DBruleU still comes in here on his high horse talking yang like Bush is at 80% or something.

Talk about living in a permanent state of denial and delusion. :oyvey:
;D well Dbruleu is right at home ......he does have problem with reality ..... might as well let him stay in LALA land .........

Rigs11

03-01-2006, 09:25 PM

unfackingbelievable. I Want to see anyone on this board try and come and defend that POS. How many people have died now because of pure incompetence? Let's see.... the 2500 soldiers, the 30,000 iraqis, and the victims of katrina. Impeach that dumbass!!

Garcia Bronco

03-01-2006, 09:40 PM

What would you guys done different about Katrina?

Rigs11

03-01-2006, 09:57 PM

What would you guys done different about Katrina?
Heeded warnings.Supplied Louisiana with the 500 million it had asked for for flood mitigation projects instead of only 250 million. This would have allowed Louisiana to repair the levees. Evacuation preparedness.National guard ready to be deployed including rescue teams. High presence of police at the dome. Supplies ready to be airlifted into the dome.

RunByDesign

03-01-2006, 10:08 PM

What would you guys done different about Katrina?

Not ****ing lie about what I knew, for one.

Same **** Rice tried to pull on the 9-11 commission..."we had no idea that they would fly planes into the builiding.."

Alas, that is the cornerstone of the Bush methodology.

Garcia Bronco

03-01-2006, 10:40 PM

Heeded warnings.Supplied Louisiana with the 500 million it had asked for for flood mitigation projects instead of only 250 million. This would have allowed Louisiana to repair the levees. Evacuation preparedness.National guard ready to be deployed including rescue teams. High presence of police at the dome. Supplies ready to be airlifted into the dome.

For one....500 million wouldn't have fixed the levees...they're rebuilding them now...better with more metal slats and with T-walls instead of I-walls...it's still designed to only with-stand a catergory 3 hurricane. They did have teams ready to go...the scope of it was just to big with the resources...remember the Hurricane went from a 1 to a 4 inside of two days. They did have police at the dome...but the police left to protect their own families. You can blame the government for many things...but you can't pin this one on anybody. It was the biggest natural disaster in our history...I just don't think people understand the scope of it.

clarker

03-01-2006, 10:58 PM

Heeded warnings.Supplied Louisiana with the 500 million it had asked for for flood mitigation projects instead of only 250 million. This would have allowed Louisiana to repair the levees. Evacuation preparedness.National guard ready to be deployed including rescue teams. High presence of police at the dome. Supplies ready to be airlifted into the dome.At best Bush can claim that they didn't know if the Levees would break. But He can't say that he wasn't warned that they might. He got caught on that. Bush f.cked up big time on this, but he was not the only one. Second there were many resources that the state and local government did not use. For instance on Hardball right after the hurricane, they reported that more than 300 school buses, that could have been used to move people out were left parked and then flooded making them useless.

BTW it is the Governor of Louisiana who has to make the call on to deploy the National Guard. Each state's Governor is the commander in Chief of that states Guard units. So if they were not called in time it is the Governor's fault.

Spider

03-01-2006, 11:03 PM

What would you guys done different about Katrina?
Gave New Orleans emergency money for flood control , supplys etc ... if the Floods wouldnt have happened , then the money for the flood control would have came out of next years budget ....Here is the thing , plenty of blame to go around from the mayor all the way up to the president , the difference is only Bush has been caught lying .... but then if were in charge we wouldnt be in Iraq , then I could have dispatched enough guardsmen to keep control ...

Play2win

03-01-2006, 11:33 PM

baja

03-01-2006, 11:43 PM

clarker

03-01-2006, 11:52 PM

I love people who try to make all kinds of excuses for BUSH.

Part of the job of the President is to take the responsibilities...

even if they're not you actions, you are still responsible for this country...Bush has to take responsibilities for sure. And he has a lot answer for the federal government's slow response to Katrina.

The state and local officals have to take responsibility as well and they are getting off the hook because Bush f.cked up. I don't think that is right either.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-02-2006, 01:18 AM

The state and local officals have to take responsibility as well and they are getting off the hook because Bush f.cked up. I don't think that is right either.

Never one to let the facts get in your way, are you?

Get a clue:

Blanco’s letter requesting Emergency aid under the Stafford Act, August 27th

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4843

President Bush legally puts the ball in Chertoff and Howard’s court, August 27th

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.htm

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

footstepsfrom#27

03-02-2006, 01:53 AM

Never one to let the facts get in your way, are you?

Get a clue:

Blanco’s letter requesting Emergency aid under the Stafford Act, August 27th

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4843

President Bush legally puts the ball in Chertoff and Howard’s court, August 27th

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.htm
Some people don't realilze that the Stafford Act authorizes the President to mobilize the resources of the US military in support of exactly the kind of request Governor Blanco made. In fact it authorizes that response BEFORE the disaster hits. Blanco requested the specific help Bush had an obligation to supply under the Act, but not only failed to provide it, he lied about even having received a request, then lied about having information that the levies would break.

He's simply got to go. This guy makes Tricky Dick and Slick Willie look like Honest Abe Lincoln.

Rohirrim

03-02-2006, 07:09 AM

Maybe Dubya can talk Big Daddy Bush into stepping into the POTUS position for him and bailing him out of all this trouble. It's always worked before. Now that Daddy Bush has Slick Willie for a jacuzzi buddy, Dubya could luck out and get two POTUSes for the price of one. ;D

TailgateNut

03-02-2006, 07:48 AM

The sad side of this is that hundreds died and thousands are still unaccounted for, and what's worse is the "sheep" are still backing and spinning for Bush.

footstepsfrom#27

03-02-2006, 08:38 AM

Bush accomplished something in the wake of Katrina I thought was pretty much impossible; he made Jessie Jackson look like he might know what he was talking about.

clarker

03-02-2006, 09:07 AM

Some people don't realilze that the Stafford Act authorizes the President to mobilize the resources of the US military in support of exactly the kind of request Governor Blanco made. In fact it authorizes that response BEFORE the disaster hits. Blanco requested the specific help Bush had an obligation to supply under the Act, but not only failed to provide it, he lied about even having received a request, then lied about having information that the levies would break.

He's simply got to go. This guy makes Tricky Dick and Slick Willie look like Honest Abe Lincoln.Look my Dad retired a Lt. Col. after 26 years in the South Dakota National Guard. I'm not spinning for Bush, I'm just telling you how it works. Of course Bush has the authority to mobolize the Guard, but Governor Blanco doesn't have to wait for him to do it.

The Governor of any state is the Commander in Chief of that states' Guard units. They can order the Guard to mobilize at any time.They don't need Bush's ok, they can just do it. The question then is why did the good Governor do just that instead of waiting on Bush.

Plus I'm not saying Bush is with out fault. To me it seems like you can hold the state and local governments accountable for their mess ups and still have many things that Bush could be blamed for. And there are many things on this you can blame Bush for. For example if you want to make the argument that the National Guard units were not better prepared because they are being overused in Iraq. That is a good argument in my book. FEMA did a piss pour job as well as Homeland Security and the buck stops at Bush for that.

However I don't think the State and local governments should get off the hook, because people want to lay the whole thing on Bush's feet. If the National Guard wasn't called in on time, that's on the Governor. 300 school buses remain parked and then flooded when they could have been use to get some people out of the New Orleans, that is on the Mayor.

I don't see how that is covering up for Bush. The whole world knows that he screwed up on this, but that doesn't mean that other people didn't make mistakes either.

enjolras

03-02-2006, 01:12 PM

For one....500 million wouldn't have fixed the levees...they're rebuilding them now...better with more metal slats and with T-walls instead of I-walls...it's still designed to only with-stand a catergory 3 hurricane. They did have teams ready to go...the scope of it was just to big with the resources...remember the Hurricane went from a 1 to a 4 inside of two days. They did have police at the dome...but the police left to protect their own families. You can blame the government for many things...but you can't pin this one on anybody. It was the biggest natural disaster in our history...I just don't think people understand the scope of it.

Of course it WASN'T a category 4 inside of New Orleans, it wasn't even a particularly strong 3.

Nope, it was the culmination of horrible planning at the city level, horrible oversight at the state level, and a complete failure of the safety net that the federal government (through its various executive organizations) was supposed to provide.

We literally failed at EVERY level on this... from the bottom to the top.

bendog

03-02-2006, 01:53 PM

Not ****ing lie about what I knew, for one.

Same **** Rice tried to pull on the 9-11 commission..."we had no idea that they would fly planes into the builiding.."

Alas, that is the cornerstone of the Bush methodology.
For me the feds biggest blunder was that the "reforms" that went into FEMA post 9-11 were that there are interstate compacts whereby states have agreed to send emergency responders to other states when requested. I know for a fact that FEMA held up some state troopers and firefighters from Ill who were set to come to Miss. In LA, there's some confusion, imo, as to what Blanco said when Tex offered some help. However, FEMA should have been on the horn to other states 2 days before the storm hit.

But, I also know the natl guards don't have the helicopters they had before we invaded Iraq. And in Miss, the emergency guys literally had to push trees off the roads for over 50 miles just to reach a lot of places, so not having more helicopters available was a problem. Intially.

But there were screwups at the state and local levels in LA. In Miss, I was pleasantly surprised. Now a sheriff was just given a suspended sentence for forcing FEAM to turn over some ice to citizens in Miss, but the plea bargain provides the sheriff can keep his job, and the people will reelect him as long as he wants.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-02-2006, 06:37 PM

footstepsfrom#27

03-02-2006, 10:46 PM

Look my Dad retired a Lt. Col. after 26 years in the South Dakota National Guard. I'm not spinning for Bush, I'm just telling you how it works. Of course Bush has the authority to mobolize the Guard, but Governor Blanco doesn't have to wait for him to do it.

The Governor of any state is the Commander in Chief of that states' Guard units. They can order the Guard to mobilize at any time.They don't need Bush's ok, they can just do it. The question then is why did the good Governor do just that instead of waiting on Bush.
Who said anything about the National Guard? I'm talking about Department of Defense military assets...not the Louisiana National Guard. Blanco requested it...Bush ignored it, then lied about it.

Spider

03-02-2006, 10:57 PM

clarker

03-02-2006, 11:13 PM

Who said anything about the National Guard? I'm talking about Department of Defense military assets...not the Louisiana National Guard. Blanco requested it...Bush ignored it, then lied about it.The National Guard is what the Department of Defense sends. The National Guard is to support the regular army in time of war and handle times of emergancy in times of peace. It is what they do. And Blanco doesn't need ot request Bush to send them in. She has the authority herself to activate the Guard.

For example in the flood that wiped out part of Rapid City, SD in 1972, the South Dakota National Guard was called in to help with the relief effort and the Governor of SD didn't have to wait for Nixon to order it. He did it himself.

Plus I'm not saying the Bush should get his share of the blame because the federal government was wait late in responding. I'm just that the State and local officals didn't make the best use of the resources they did have at hand.

ant1999e

03-02-2006, 11:30 PM

The National Guard is what the Department of Defense sends. The National Guard is to support the regular army in time of war and handle times of emergancy in times of peace. It is what they do. And Blanco doesn't need ot request Bush to send them in. She has the authority herself to activate the Guard.

For example in the flood that wiped out part of Rapid City, SD in 1972, the South Dakota National Guard was called in to help with the relief effort and the Governor of SD didn't have to wait for Nixon to order it. He did it himself.

Plus I'm not saying the Bush should get his share of the blame because the federal government was wait late in responding. I'm just that the State and local officals didn't make the best use of the resources they did have at hand.
This is my point exactly. The Governor controls the national guard. The mayor had control of the million busses that sat and got wet. Spread the blame around.

clarker

03-02-2006, 11:34 PM

This is my point exactly. The Governor controls the national guard. The mayor had control of the million busses that sat and got wet. Spread the blame around.True, but FEMA and Homeland Security were way to slow to respond and that can be layed at the feet of Bush.

There is enough blame to nail Bush to the Cross he loves and hold the state and local government accountable.

footstepsfrom#27

03-02-2006, 11:35 PM

i did not know this ........... doesnt shock me though ......PS dont tell DBruleU , this will crush him ..........
Here is the text of Blanco's request and the specific statutory citations in law.

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing.

That is the first paragraph of Ms. Blanco's formal letter of request to President Bush. Please note the exact reference cited in federal statute, 42 U.S.C. sections 5121-5206, here identified for purposes of reference as "the Stafford Act". Specifically, note 42 U.S.C. 5170b(c), the context of which is discussing the, "Four means by which the federal government may become involved in the relief effort", the first three being applicable to the present situation. Point 3 is crucial but I reproduce the entire list here for your edification. You will note that we are here talking about not merely FEMA but intervention by the US Department of Defense as well...

3. President may send in DoD assets on a emergency basis to "preserve life and property." 42 U.S.C. 5170b(c).
a. Done before any Presidential declaration, but still requires a governors request.
b. Lasts only 10 days.
c. Used to clear debris and wreckage and to temporarily restore essential public facilities and services-very limited authority.

Note three things; 1) the statutory citation falls within the parameters of the sections of the US Code that Blanco specifically cited in her request, and 2) this authorizes the PRESIDENT to use DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE assets on an emergency basis for "preserve life and property"...and 3) this is to be done BEFORE any Presidential declaration of a disaster. Now please look at the EXACT WORDING of Blancos request in the 3rd paragraph of her document. It reads:

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Note the wording, crafted SPECIFICALLY to comply with the Staford Act's conditions for the President to authorize the Defense Department's assistance..."federal assistance is necessary to SAVE LIVES, PROTECT PROPERTY..."; even the mention of debris removal is listed so that there is NO CONFUSION. Blanco is requesting that President Bush offer assistance by the US Department of Defense under the provisions of the Stafford Act to assist New Orleans to do what? Beside saving lives and protecting property, it's to "temporarily restore essential public facilities and services".

So the bottom line is that Blanco specifically told Bush 2 full days before Katrina that the local and state government could not handle the problem, and asked for US DOD assistance...assistance she did not get untill it was much to late. Of course Bush like about this also and said that the governor's office didn't file the "right request"...total BS.

footstepsfrom#27

03-02-2006, 11:39 PM

Spider

03-02-2006, 11:45 PM

Here is the text of Blanco's request and the specific statutory citations in law.

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing.

That is the first paragraph of Ms. Blanco's formal letter of request to President Bush. Please note the exact reference cited in federal statute, 42 U.S.C. sections 5121-5206, here identified for purposes of reference as "the Stafford Act". Specifically, note 42 U.S.C. 5170b(c), the context of which is discussing the, "Four means by which the federal government may become involved in the relief effort", the first three being applicable to the present situation. Point 3 is crucial but I reproduce the entire list here for your edification. You will note that we are here talking about not merely FEMA but intervention by the US Department of Defense as well...

3. President may send in DoD assets on a emergency basis to "preserve life and property." 42 U.S.C. 5170b(c).
a. Done before any Presidential declaration, but still requires a governors request.
b. Lasts only 10 days.
c. Used to clear debris and wreckage and to temporarily restore essential public facilities and services-very limited authority.

Note three things; 1) the statutory citation falls within the parameters of the sections of the US Code that Blanco specifically cited in her request, and 2) this authorizes the PRESIDENT to use DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE assets on an emergency basis for "preserve life and property"...and 3) this is to be done BEFORE any Presidential declaration of a disaster. Now please look at the EXACT WORDING of Blancos request in the 3rd paragraph of her document. It reads:

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Note the wording, crafted SPECIFICALLY to comply with the Staford Act's conditions for the President to authorize the Defense Department's assistance..."federal assistance is necessary to SAVE LIVES, PROTECT PROPERTY..."; even the mention of debris removal is listed so that there is NO CONFUSION. Blanco is requesting that President Bush offer assistance by the US Department of Defense under the provisions of the Stafford Act to assist New Orleans to do what? Beside saving lives and protecting property, it's to "temporarily restore essential public facilities and services".

So the bottom line is that Blanco specifically told Bush 2 full days before Katrina that the local and state government could not handle the problem, and asked for US DOD assistance...assistance she did not get untill it was much to late. Of course Bush like about this also and said that the governor's office didn't file the "right request"...total BS.
yeah it is Bullshít .........This is catching up with Bush so fast , even the hardcore in his party are starting to jump ship

clarker

03-02-2006, 11:46 PM

Incorrect...see above.No I'm not incorrect. My Dad was in the Lt. Col. in the Guard for 26 years. I know what I'm talking about. The Governor of a state can order that states National Guard unit to help in a distaster such as this. They do not have to wait for the President. I gave you an example.

Now as far as other types of aid, yes Bush didn't respond and he should be accountable. But the first people to respond to things of this nature is often the National Guard units of the state. Engineering units, to be be exact. If they were slow to respond, that lays at the feet of the governor.

But if they didn't have the resources to do their job right because those resources were in Iraq. Then that is Bush's fault.

footstepsfrom#27

03-02-2006, 11:53 PM

No I'm not incorrect. My Dad was in the Lt. Col. in the Guard for 26 years. I know what I'm talking about. The Governor of a state can order that states National Guard unit to help in a distaster such as this. They do not have to wait for the President. I gave you an example.

Now as far as other types of aid, yes Bush didn't respond and he should be accountable. But the first people to respond to things of this nature is often the National Guard units of the state. Engineering units, to be be exact. If they were slow to respond, that lays at the feet of the governor.

But if they didn't have the resources to do their job right because those resources were in Iraq. Then that is Bush's fault.
You keep talking about the Louisiana National Guard. Why? I've already said I'm not referring to the National Guard. I know that the governor controls the guard. That's not the point. The point is that the Stafford Act under which Governor Blanco requested aid a full THREE DAYS before Katrina hit land, authorizes the President to use US military forces (not the National Guard) to act under the terms of the request, and to act BEFORE the disaster strikes. The governor even quoted the exact reference for Bush so there would be no confusion. Blanco requested FEDERAL assistance in the form of US military help and did not get it. Bush then lied about the request as well as his knowledge of what might happen as proven by the video tape.

End of story.

clarker

03-02-2006, 11:58 PM

You keep talking about the Louisiana National Guard. Why? I've already said I'm not referring to the National Guard. I know that the governor controls the guard. That's not the point. The point is that the Stafford Act under which Governor Blanco requested aid a full THREE DAYS before Katrina hit land, authorizes the President to use US military forces (not the National Guard) to act under the terms of the request, and to act BEFORE the disaster strikes. The governor even quoted the exact reference for Bush so there would be no confusion. Blanco requested FEDERAL assistance in the form of US military help and did not get it. Bush then lied about the request as well as his knowledge of what might happen as proven by the video tape.

End of story.My point is why didn't the governor make full use of the resources She had at hand? The National Guard was one of those.

Why didn't the Mayor of New Orleans use the school buses to get people out of there?

You say Blanco asked for U.S. Military help and that help would have came from the National Guard. Which she is the commander in chief. You can say I'm wrong, but I now am not. End of story.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 12:23 AM

You say Blanco asked for U.S. Military help and that help would have came from the National Guard. Which she is the commander in chief. You can say I'm wrong, but I now am not. End of story.
I didn't say that help would come from the LA State National Guard...that's what you are saying, and it's wrong. The Stafford Act has nothing to do with requesting help from the National Guard...obviously the governor controls that. The Stafford Act authorizes the President upon request from a state's governor to use FEDERAL US MILITARY FORCES...ie; US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines...etc...instead of continuing to tell me what your dad thinks, read the actual citation from federal statute. It's clear that Blanco had to request this aid since only the President could supply it. She did. He didn't.

This has nothing to do with the National Guard.

clarker

03-03-2006, 12:29 AM

I didn't say that help would come from the LA State National Guard...that's what you are saying, and it's wrong. The Stafford Act has nothing to do with requesting help from the National Guard...obviously the governor controls that. The Stafford Act authorizes the President upon request from a state's governor to use FEDERAL US MILITARY FORCES...ie; US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines...etc...instead of continuing to tell me what your dad thinks, read the actual citation from federal statute. It's clear that Blanco had to request this aid since only the President could supply it. She did. He didn't.

This has nothing to do with the National Guard.It is not what my Dad thinks, it is what he knows from 26 years in the National Guard.

Where do you think the resouces of the Army, Marines, Navy ect. are right now? I'm guessing most of them in or around Iraq. And even the ones still in the state is going to take more than three days to mobilize. The National Guard is right there. Why not use it?

I have said that Bush was slow to respond, but why didn't the governor use what she had. That is all I'm saying. Wouldn't you agree that is a fair question?

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 12:38 AM

It is not what my Dad thinks, it is what he knows from 26 years in the National Guard.
Dude...I'm sure you're dad is cool and knows a lot of stuff, but if he's telling you that the Stafford Act has to do with State National Guard forces...he's simply WRONG. I'm quoting FEDERAL LAW to you...I even cite the exact statute. It's right under your nose in black and white. Why can't you READ this? If you don't believe me go look it up yourself. Go back and read post 29...read the ACTUAL STATUTE. The Stafford Act allows the President to send in US Military resoruces (not National Guard) when requested by the governor in exactly this kind of situation. Are you seriously telling me that ALL our US military resources were unavailable? Hardly. There were plenty of forces still here. Where do you think they got the guys who showed up later? Not from Iraq...a lot came from right here in Texas BTW...a few hours from New Orleans.

Bush screwed up.

clarker

03-03-2006, 12:47 AM

Dude...I'm sure you're dad is cool and knows a lot of stuff, but if he's telling you that the Stafford Act has to do with State National Guard forces...he's simply WRONG. I'm quoting FEDERAL LAW to you...I even cite the exact statute. It's right under your nose in black and white. Why can't you READ this? If you don't believe me go look it up yourself. Go back and read post 29...read the ACTUAL STATUTE. The Stafford Act allows the President to send in US Military resoruces (not National Guard) when requested by the governor in exactly this kind of situation. Are you seriously telling me that ALL our US military resources were unavailable? Hardly. There were plenty of forces still here. Where do you think they got the guys who showed up later? Not from Iraq...a lot came from right here in Texas BTW...a few hours from New Orleans.

Bush screwed up.

Yes Bush did screw up. Big time. And I believe what your saying. I just think the governor f.cked up as well. I'm saying the Guard has anything to do with the Stafford Act. I'm saying the Guard was just one resource she had at hand that she failed to use. Which is dumb, because that is what everyother governor would have done along with asking for federal help.

I mean you would expect her to ask for Federal help, but at the same time are you going sit there and drown waiting for help when you have a life raft right there? No.

But that doesn't mean that person who heard a cry for help and did nothing is not a d.ckhead. But the drowing person has part of the blame for being so stupid not use the life raft.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 12:51 AM

Yes Bush did screw up. Big time. And I believe what your saying. I just think the governor f.cked up as well. I'm saying the Guard has anything to do with the Stafford Act. I'm saying the Guard was just one resource she had at hand that she failed to use. Which is dumb, because that is what everyother governor would have done along with asking for federal help.
From what I understand, a good portion of the LA National Guard was in Iraq. How many guard forces she used or failed to use is debateable. What is NOT debateable is the fact that a direct request for federal help was made in perfect compliance with federal statue a full 3 days prior to Katrina hitting land, and that request was completely ignored.

I think THAT is a far more grievous error than anything Blanco did or did not do.

clarker

03-03-2006, 12:54 AM

From what I understand, a good portion of the LA National Guard was in Iraq. How many guard forces she used or failed to use is debateable. What is NOT debateable is the fact that a direct request for federal help was made in perfect compliance with federal statue a full 3 days prior to Katrina hitting land, and that request was completely ignored.

I think THAT is a far more grievous error than anything Blanco did or did not do.See I said you could blame Bush for the LA National Guard being in Iraq. But to not use what is there is a kind of stupid.

baja

03-03-2006, 01:04 AM

See I said you could blame Bush for the LA National Guard being in Iraq. But to not use what is there is a kind of stupid.

Clarker I thing his point is not what the governor should have done but the fact bush left LA hung out to dry regardless of all other fuuck ups.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 01:05 AM

See I said you could blame Bush for the LA National Guard being in Iraq. But to not use what is there is a kind of stupid.
I don't know whether that's accurate or not so I can't comment on that part of it. But it doesn't impact my thinking that for the 2nd time in my lifetime I find myself in favor of impeaching a sitting US president...the first being Tricky Dick.

clarker

03-03-2006, 01:07 AM

I don't know whether that's accurate or not so I can't comment on that part of it. But it doesn't impact my thinking that for the 2nd time in my lifetime I find myself in favor of impeaching a sitting US president...the first being Tricky Dick.If they impeached Bush for the way he handled the hurricane, you won't hear me crying. But that governor and the Mayor have to go as well.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 01:08 AM

If they impeached Bush for the way he handled the hurricane, you won't hear me crying. But that governor and the Mayor have to go as well.
Seems like a pretty good trade to me.

clarker

03-03-2006, 01:10 AM

Seems like a pretty good trade to me.Which was my whole point. But, I may not have did have done the best job of making myself clear. If I didn't, I'm sorry.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 03:02 AM

I didn't say that help would come from the LA State National Guard...that's what you are saying, and it's wrong. The Stafford Act has nothing to do with requesting help from the National Guard...obviously the governor controls that. The Stafford Act authorizes the President upon request from a state's governor to use FEDERAL US MILITARY FORCES...ie; US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines...etc...instead of continuing to tell me what your dad thinks, read the actual citation from federal statute. It's clear that Blanco had to request this aid since only the President could supply it. She did. He didn't.

This has nothing to do with the National Guard.

There you go confusing clarker with the facts again, dude. ;)

There's no fact this guy isn't willing to deny or minimize in his efforts to take the heat off GeeDubya.

I presented him with the same facts about the Stafford Act and DHS's responsibilities shortly after the hurricane, and he was spinning madly in his efforts to deflect blame to LA's governor and minimize Bush's failures then too.

TailgateNut

03-03-2006, 07:57 AM

If they impeached Bush for the way he handled the hurricane, you won't hear me crying. But that governor and the Mayor have to go as well.

One of the things that's isn't being addressed is the fact that Bush is in charge of the country. I'm not too concerned with the mayor of N.O. and the Gov. of LA continuin to fvck $hit up! They've made their mistakes.
Katrina showed us how incompetent and dishonest W is. Every red blooded American knew there was a disaster, but curious George evidently does not own a fvcking TV!

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 08:16 AM

Gave New Orleans emergency money for flood control , supplys etc ... if the Floods wouldnt have happened , then the money for the flood control would have came out of next years budget ....Here is the thing , plenty of blame to go around from the mayor all the way up to the president , the difference is only Bush has been caught lying .... but then if were in charge we wouldnt be in Iraq , then I could have dispatched enough guardsmen to keep control ...

Money wouldn't have done anybody any good at two days out...do you realize the electrical for the pumps are underground...not anymore on a few...but at the time as soon as the pumps were flooded...there went the electrical. The said at the time that 75% of the regions National Guard was there...but here's the thing...the dmage was so wide spread in the region that those guardsmen were at their own homes. Commincations were totally out.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 08:18 AM

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 08:25 AM

I catching up and reading the posts...you guy can talk about filing all the paperwork you want....but two days is hardly enough time to get all the supplies and resources in place in a unpredictable situation.....people really don't understand the scope of this and it's easy to sit back and play armchair leader with hindsight. At the end of the day...the people that died...died because they got caught up in a Cat 3 hurricane that had been a 5...also remember that Katrina first made land fail in Florida and they thought it was going to go up the east coast. I'll also add that it's sad that anybody would use the death of these Americans as politcial pawns.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 08:28 AM

You keep talking about the Louisiana National Guard. Why? I've already said I'm not referring to the National Guard. I know that the governor controls the guard. That's not the point. .

Well that is his point.

And what you don't know is the Military was deployed as soon as the Hurricane left....I can't remember all the ships....one was the Iwo J....and you can google that if you like.

bendog

03-03-2006, 09:00 AM

JMO but the bus thing is a Faux red herring. The "plan" all along was to use the dome as a supershelter. Trying to load hundreds of thousands of people on busses, and drive them out over lake ponchatrain (there are ONLY sixteen lanes even with contraflow leading out of Nola) with a cat 5 hurricane coming seems absurd to me.

Now why the city didn't have all its cops on duty (apparantly they tried to save overtime) and why they evacuated the workers who knew how to clean and repair the levy pumps ...?

Why Blanco didn't know the levies failed .....? Bush didn't tell her, and he knew, or at least the WH knew ... he may have been busy working out. But, why didn't Blanco know? The "plan" called for 3 forms of communication between the city and her staff. Land lines, which were blown down. Cell phones went out both because the towers were down and because loss of power prevented charging them. And they were supposed to have some radio system, but that apparantly was in Iraq.

Here's a link. I can't find whatever I read on the radio system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/national/nationalspecial/28guard.html?ei=5090&en=1218fd35c0af7127

The one thing I found unforgiveable at the time was that the Navy had a helicopter aircraft carrier there, but nobody from FEMA or the DOD told it to rescue people. It did so on it's own though.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 09:17 AM

Spider

03-03-2006, 09:25 AM

Money wouldn't have done anybody any good at two days out...do you realize the electrical for the pumps are underground...not anymore on a few...but at the time as soon as the pumps were flooded...there went the electrical. The said at the time that 75% of the regions National Guard was there...but here's the thing...the dmage was so wide spread in the region that those guardsmen were at their own homes. Commincations were totally out.
good grief , didnt say the money would have prevented the flood , but supplies have ot be bought , Pay the police and city workers , Get outside help ( it was obvious Bush wasnt going to help) ......... N.O. could have used that money to manage theaftermath of the Hurricane .........

bendog

03-03-2006, 10:21 AM

The roads in and out over the lake were destroyed...that's just New Orleans...you still had Mississippi and Alabama to deal with....

The people to work on the pumps were there until the end and had to be evacuated...there was nothing they could do with the electrical flooded and underwater...they had one pump that didn't flood and it did much of the work over the 21 days it took to pump out the city

That's not exactly true, I don't think. After the storm passed, the interstates were still passable. However, INSIDE the city streets were not consistently passable. That is, they needed military trucks and amphibious vehicles. The natl guard prepositioned some trucks in it's nola site, but they were swamped, and the army engineers were moved to the superdome, and there was some contorversey over whether they should have been used to police, but they weren't. And, communications with the guard inside nola and out, failed.

The water and sewer workers apparantly did not abandon their jobs as some of the cops did, but again, the city failed to call into work every person availiable.

Yes the pumps failed as power went out as flood waters came in. However, in Kenner and Metarie there is flooding on a block by block, or block of blocks, basis. Not all the levies failed. I don't think it's been ascertained whether all of the pumps that failed, failed before the power went out, or they failed and that caused the levies to break which in turn led to the power outage. However, it's really not of importance because the power stations themselves, except the one that didn't go off line, prolly would fail at some point, and then the pumps were done.

http://www.nrwa.org/news@nrwa/top/washpost.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/national/nationalspecial/08pump.html?

alkemical

03-03-2006, 10:35 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/femacriticsshirtgetshimtangledupinticket

FEMA critic's shirt gets him tangled up in
ticket
Ridiculing the Federal Emergency
Management Agency is high art in the Gulf
Coast areas where Hurricane Katrina hit last
year.
George Barisich, president of the United
Commercial Fisherman's Association, has been
selling anti-FEMA T-shirts since last fall, a
reflection of his frustration with the
federal government's response to the storm
that left him homeless and unemployed.
But on Feb. 1, when he handed a shirt to a
fellow Katrina victim as he was picking up
canned goods at a charity's relief tent,
Barisich found himself in trouble with the
government.
He was cited by a group of Homeland
Security officials for selling a T-shirt on
federal property - in this case, near a FEMA
center in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart in
Chalmette, La.
Barisich, 49, says he didn't sell the shirt,
which said: "Flooded by Katrina! Forgotten by
FEMA! What's Next, Mr. Bush?" He says he gave it away.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 10:41 AM

I catching up and reading the posts...you guy can talk about filing all the paperwork you want....but two days is hardly enough time to get all the supplies and resources in place in a unpredictable situation......
Balogna...it was 3 days not 2 as I first posted, and the US military was in position faster for the tsunami on the other side of the world than they were for this. Bush could have easily done much more than he did.

Keep making excuses for the biggest failure in presidential leadership in modern times.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 10:43 AM

Well that is his point.

And what you don't know is the Military was deployed as soon as the Hurricane left....I can't remember all the ships....one was the Iwo J....and you can google that if you like.
Read the Stafford Act and what it is for. The ground forces of the US Army should have been in there BEFORE the storm hit to get people out. That's got nothing to do with sending a supply ship.

baja

03-03-2006, 10:44 AM

"Either you are with us or you are against us"

never forget those words.......

bendog

03-03-2006, 10:46 AM

http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=3017

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 11:10 AM

good grief , didnt say the money would have prevented the flood , but supplies have ot be bought , Pay the police and city workers , Get outside help ( it was obvious Bush wasnt going to help) ......... N.O. could have used that money to manage theaftermath of the Hurricane .........

Many of the police were worried about their own families and many workers and police had evacuated. There is no amount of money that would have made a difference. The damage was done before the hurricane even was formed, and the scope was huge and unpredictable. And you're just talking about 1 city of many.

clarker

03-03-2006, 11:11 AM

There you go confusing clarker with the facts again, dude. ;)

There's no fact this guy isn't willing to deny or minimize in his efforts to take the heat off GeeDubya.

I presented him with the same facts about the Stafford Act and DHS's responsibilities shortly after the hurricane, and he was spinning madly in his efforts to deflect blame to LA's governor and minimize Bush's failures then too.I said in post 43 that if Bush was impeached for his f.ck up with this hurrricane. How is that minimizing the heat on Bush. Read all the posts you retard.

Pointing out that he is not the only one who screwed up isn't a attempt to minimize the heat on Bush, it is an a attempt to point out that he is not the only one who should be held accountable.

Now quit jerking off to your life size Bill Clinton blow up doll and read all my post before you comment on what I have to say.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 11:13 AM

Read the Stafford Act and what it is for. The ground forces of the US Army should have been in there BEFORE the storm hit to get people out. That's got nothing to do with sending a supply ship.

It was the Navy...and it was a bunch of ships. Where would you have deployed troops? And how would you have known where to put them, besides New Orleans. Again...no one could have predicted that NOLA would have been 80 percent under water...and no one could predict the mass destuction from the region...further more...putting those troops in place with 48 hours notice to pull off a mass evac.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 11:17 AM

Balogna...it was 3 days not 2 as I first posted, and the US military was in position faster for the tsunami on the other side of the world than they were for this. Bush could have easily done much more than he did.

Keep making excuses for the biggest failure in presidential leadership in modern times.

Like I said...you've got no understanding of the scope of the project. And I don't think anyone even at this point really does. You're just pissed off and emotional about it...and perhaps you should be, but still doesn't change that what happened mostly was out of the control of anybody other than years of planning that couldn't be justified from a cost stand point, nor would get anyone's attention.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 11:20 AM

One of the things that's isn't being addressed is the fact that Bush is in charge of the country. I'm not too concerned with the mayor of N.O. and the Gov. of LA continuin to fvck $hit up! They've made their mistakes.
Katrina showed us how incompetent and dishonest W is. Every red blooded American knew there was a disaster, but curious George evidently does not own a fvcking TV!

No offense dude...but you opinion isn't really based in reality...and more of TV show mentality.

BroncoInferno

03-03-2006, 11:32 AM

DBruleU

03-03-2006, 11:55 AM

Bush Didn’t Lie About Levee Breaching

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/3/120101.shtml?s=ic
News sources have reported that President Bush lied when he said he wasn’t warned that the levees in New Orleans could be breached during Hurricane Katrina.

But a videotape of a key meeting between Bush and hurricane officials supports the president’s contention that the breaching of the levees was unanticipated.

On September 1, four days after Katrina struck, Bush said: "I don’t think anybody anticipated a breach of the levees.”

The Associated Press on Wednesday claimed that "federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees.”

Story Continues Below

The Democratic National Committee attempted to make political hay out of the AP report, stating that "during the briefing, National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield told the president that the integrity of the levees was ‘a very, very grave concern’ that the president appears to have ignored.”

However, the tape shows that what Mayfield actually told Bush was: "I don’t think any model can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not, but that’s obviously a very, very grave concern.”

Mayfield told NBC News on Thursday that he warned only that the levees might be topped – that is, the storm surge could push water over the top of the levees – not breached, and that on the many conference calls he monitored, "Nobody talked about the possibility of a levee breach or failure until after it happened.”

Mayfield even told Bush: "The forecast now suggests that there will be minimal flooding in the City of New Orleans itself.”

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 11:59 AM

Garcia, our president got caught in a lie on tape...or at the very best he simply wasn't paying any attention, which would probably be worse. And we aren't talking about a lie regarding a blowjob; this was a lie dealing with national security. How can you possibly come to his defense here?

What's he supposed to do? The FEMA advisor said they could fail...not that they would...I took Bush's comment to be more of a hope for the best. Should he despair? I'll have to watch it again when I get home....but I'm not getting the same vib as some of you. No one man...even the President is responsible for what happened down their...everyone is to blame to a degree. The only thing we can do is move on and try to learn from those mistakes. The leeve's that are being constructed now are still only designed to withstand a catergory 3 hurricane....and there really isn't a way to know if they'll fail the next time either.

BroncoInferno

03-03-2006, 12:06 PM

What's he supposed to do? The FEMA advisor said they could fail...not that they would...I took Bush's comment to be more of a hope for the best. Should he despair? I'll have to watch it again when I get home....but I'm not getting the same vib as some of you. No one man...even the President is responsible for what happened down their...everyone is to blame to a degree. The only thing we can do is move on and try to learn from those mistakes. The leeve's that are being constructed now are still only designed to withstand a catergory 3 hurricane....and there really isn't a way to know if they'll fail the next time either.

Lives would have been saved if Bush had acted faster. The overall resources and poor shape of the levees were certainly a disaster waiting to happen, but fewer people would have died with a faster response. Who knows how many lives, but even only one would have been worth the effort.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 12:22 PM

Lives would have been saved if Bush had acted faster. The overall resources and poor shape of the levees were certainly a disaster waiting to happen, but fewer people would have died with a faster response. Who knows how many lives, but even only one would have been worth the effort.

Well I wish no one would have died, but again...we cannot put this on any one person, group, or agency it's just not grounded in reality. What we can do is learn how to better mange these situations, but I can tell you from experience with working on large scale projects...you try to minimize your unknowns and solve for the 'idiot' case and it's not always possible. Knowing that...I couldn't imagine the task that was before our people in the days after the disaster...nor what is still going on in the region. It's huge.

Spider

03-03-2006, 01:01 PM

Many of the police were worried about their own families and many workers and police had evacuated. There is no amount of money that would have made a difference. The damage was done before the hurricane even was formed, and the scope was huge and unpredictable. And you're just talking about 1 city of many.
you have more excuses then Raider fan ........ Point is alot of these employees went without pay , not all of them ran , but then I also said got outside help. You claim Footsteps from 27 doesnt comprehend the entire scope , it is you that is locked into a certian way of thinking , and not looking at all that could have been done ............

bendog

03-03-2006, 01:11 PM

Bush lied, as usual, not that that's uncommon, though impeachment seems a bit strong (_:

Still, the vast maj of people who died, died when they couldn't make it out of their houses during the night of the first day. I don't see how you blame any govt official for that. People were told to go to the shelters that were above sea level. They didn't cause they knew the gangs would steal their stuff, and they couldn't take their pets with them to the shelters. Hopefully, they won't rebuild below sea level.

Some people did die waiting for help to arrive. Generally they seemed to be the older sicker folks. The problem with "blaming" the feds, or even Blanco, is that they needed trucks that could drive through water and amphibious vehicles and boats. I've seen NOLA dodge several hurricanes, and I was there for the beginning of Betsy. If we assume bushii should have had the Ark and Tex national guard humping it down to baton rouge, are we assuming that we wouldn't blame them if NOLA ducked another one?

But, in Missisisippi there are still people living in TENTS. There are old people still dying. I'd give the feds a pass for not coming up with the money and the plan to buy out the black folks in the 9th ward, because even if a black person suggests something so rational, he/she's called a racist. But, there's no way to argue that Bushii didn't want to come up with even the money the govt has, because he wants to cut his buddies' taxes and make a war.

Garcia Bronco

03-03-2006, 02:34 PM

you have more excuses then Raider fan ........ Point is alot of these employees went without pay , not all of them ran , but then I also said got outside help. You claim Footsteps from 27 doesnt comprehend the entire scope , it is you that is locked into a certian way of thinking , and not looking at all that could have been done ............

That's not what I said at all...I said no one here can wrap their mind around the entire scope...me and you included not just #27. I believe that. Those people died because we all failed...every one of us. We failed to make sure the wetlands stayed to consume a storm surge. We failed when we didn't make the leeve better with more soil. We failed when we didn't calculate what the vent covers would do to the outer membrane of the Super Dome. And on, and on, and on. That's not to say you Spida...or FSF27 should have done more, but as a group that is the citizens of this country we failed.

Spider

03-03-2006, 02:42 PM

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 07:34 PM

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 07:45 PM

I said in post 43 that if Bush was impeached for his f.ck up with this hurrricane. How is that minimizing the heat on Bush. Read all the posts you retard.

That's not the point, jackass.

You make statements to the effect that Bush should be held accountable, and then you negate them by blaming the governor for actions or omissions for which Bush was responsible (see Stafford Act and DHS website.)

Pointing out that he is not the only one who screwed up isn't a attempt to minimize the heat on Bush, it is an a attempt to point out that he is not the only one who should be held accountable.

You're just working the same old "there's plenty of blame to go around" RNC talking point, and, yes, it is an attempt to minimize Bush's responsibility.

Do you really think you're bullsh*tting anyone with that?

Now quit jerking off to your life size Bill Clinton blow up doll and read all my post before you comment on what I have to say.

Try removing the monogrammed 'W' knee pads before you post - then people might take your posts seriously.

clarker

03-03-2006, 08:17 PM

That's not the point, jackass.

You make statements to the effect that Bush should be held accountable, and then you negate them by blaming the governor for actions or omissions for which Bush was responsible (see Stafford Act and DHS website.)

You're just working the same old "there's plenty of blame to go around" RNC talking point, and, yes, it is an attempt to minimize Bush's responsibility.

Do you really think you're bullsh*tting anyone with that?

Try removing the monogrammed 'W' knee pads before you post - then people might take your posts seriously.I'll take my W knee pads off right around the time you quit tossing Clinton's salad, idiot.

BTW, Spider agreed with the fact that there is enough blame to go around although he feels Bush deserves the most. Which is a fair point. Is he just spouting RNC talking points?

I have never even looked at the RNC web site. You on the other hand had at one time the DNC site listed as your home page.

But fine I won't take anymore shots on you and you can continue to call me a nazi.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 08:22 PM

I'll take my W knee pads off right around the time you quit tossing Clinton's salad, idiot.

News flash:

1) Clinton hasn't been president for five years now.

2) This thread has nothing to do with Clinton.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 08:34 PM

BTW, Spider agreed with the fact that there is enough blame to go around although he feels Bush deserves the most. Which is a fair point. Is he just spouting RNC talking points?

But Spider hasn't been trying to claim that the governor of LA was responsible for actions for which the federal government was clearly responsible (like you have been doing this entire discussuion.)

Spider hasn't asked "why didn't the governor do such-and-such?" when the federal government was clearly responsible for the response in question.

clarker

03-03-2006, 08:37 PM

But Spider hasn't been trying to claim that the governor of LA was responsible for actions for which the federal government was clearly responsible (like you have been doing this entire discussuion.)

Spider hasn't asked "why didn't the governor do such-and-such?" when the federal government was clearly responsible for the response in question.But see neither did I. But you refuse to read the whole post. I was saying she didn't use the resources she had at the state level, for example the National Guard. I even said that perhaps the reason for this is because the LA Guard units were in Iraq and that of course is Bush's fault.

You call me a knee jerk Bush nazi, but you too can be a bit knee jerk, IMO.

footstepsfrom#27

03-03-2006, 08:39 PM

That's not what I said at all...I said no one here can wrap their mind around the entire scope...me and you included not just #27. I believe that. Those people died because we all failed...every one of us. We failed to make sure the wetlands stayed to consume a storm surge. We failed when we didn't make the leeve better with more soil. We failed when we didn't calculate what the vent covers would do to the outer membrane of the Super Dome. And on, and on, and on. That's not to say you Spida...or FSF27 should have done more, but as a group that is the citizens of this country we failed.
Dude...what freaking planet do you live on? "WE" had something to do with this?...but George W. Bush is less culpable? Are you nuts? You asked what I'd have done since obviously nobody on earth was/is smart enough to grasp this...so we'd have let people die like Bush did? Gimme a break. "WE" had people loading up church busses here in Dallas and simply driving straight down to the Superdome to deliver supplies and food while Bush and his FEMA idiots were still sitting around with their thumb up their butts denying that anything was even going on there. Here's a brilliant idea...Bush could send in convoys of army trucks to ferry people out who couldn't get out on their on...federalizes rail transportation and moves 'em out on trains...etc...

HE did NOTHING. And WE had NOTHING to do with any of this.

clarker

03-03-2006, 08:42 PM

LABF

BTW, here is what Spider said in post 29 the New video shows Blanco saying levees safe thread.

I have stated several times there is enough blame to go around , the Gov and the Mayor never should have relied on Bush , and took matters in thier own hands , they are not off the hook , what has me pissed is Bush Bullshítting about it .......

He also said that Bush deserved most of the blame and I agree.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 08:44 PM

But see neither did I. But you refuse to read the whole post. I was saying she didn't use the resources she had at the state level, for example the National Guard. I even said that perhaps the reason for this is because the LA Guard units were in Iraq and that of course is Bush's fault.

I was referring to your exchange with footstepsfrom#27 in which he tried to set you straight on the Stafford Act and DHS's responsibilities.

If you re-read that whole exchange you will see what I mean.

clarker

03-03-2006, 08:50 PM

I was referring to your exchange with footstepsfrom#27 in which he tried to set you straight on the Stafford Act and DHS's responsibilities.

If you re-read that whole exchange you will see what I mean.I already told Footstepsfrom#27(coolest user name ever, BTW) that I don't think I did a good job of making my point. I wasn't really talking about the Stafford act, I was talking about Blanco not calling the Guard in fast enough and not using what state level reasources she had.

To me it was like this if she was drowing and She called for help and Bush ignored her or took his sweet time getting there, that is BS. Bush should be bashed for letting her drown.

But if She had a life raft right next to her and She refused to at least try to get in it, then she is a little to blame as well.

Of course that doesn't excuse Bush for ingnoring her cry for help.

I hope that clears up what I was trying to say.

Spider

03-03-2006, 09:00 PM

Dude...what freaking planet do you live on? "WE" had something to do with this?...but George W. Bush is less culpable? Are you nuts? You asked what I'd have done since obviously nobody on earth was/is smart enough to grasp this...so we'd have let people die like Bush did? Gimme a break. "WE" had people loading up church busses here in Dallas and simply driving straight down to the Superdome to deliver supplies and food while Bush and his FEMA idiots were still sitting around with their thumb up their butts denying that anything was even going on there. Here's a brilliant idea...Bush could send in convoys of army trucks to ferry people out who couldn't get out on their on...federalizes rail transportation and moves 'em out on trains...etc...

HE did NOTHING. And WE had NOTHING to do with any of this.
In away Garcia is right , you are dead on about Bush , but We as a people , need to take our share of the blame ..... here is some ways ....
1. there was enough of us stupid ásses that put Bush in office
2. Our greed , running and buying up all these wet lands turning them into Burbs ...........
3. Not enough of us Democrats took the fight for our country serious enough , we let the likes of Rush run over the top of us ....
4. Garcia is from Virginia .......... Not to sure about the connection of this , but I am sure there is somthing ;D

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 09:34 PM

http://www.bartcop.com/nielsen_chertoff.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-03-2006, 09:44 PM

http://www.bartcop.com/decide-policy.jpg

TailgateNut

03-04-2006, 11:05 AM

No offense dude...but you opinion isn't really based in reality...and more of TV show mentality.

...and what reality are you basing your comments on? Limbaugh Logic?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

03-04-2006, 05:13 PM

What does the Katrina video say about Bush?

The tape is proof that Bush is not, and never was, the man of action his spin-masters made him out to be.

The video of President Bush conferring with disaster officials from his Texas ranch the day before Katrina struck is disturbingly similar to the footage of the casual way Bush reacted to news of the Sept. 11 terror attack. This is the same Bush who time and again has primed his public image as a tough-talking, swaggering guy who moves quickly and decisively when a crisis hits. But Bush has been anything but a no-nonsense taskmaster in the face of disaster.

His first reaction to Sept. 11 was befuddlement and fear. It took him days to swing into action. His next response was to duck and dodge criticism of his glacial response to 9/11. His last ploy was to let others take the heat or the fall for his fumbles. Then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice was the perfect patsy for Bush's Sept. 11 failing. At the 9/11 Commission hearing, she fervently defended her boss from the charge that he fell asleep at the national security wheel before, during and after the attacks. She strongly made the case that there was no laxity in the Bush administration's fight against terrorism.

Counter terrorism expert Richard Clarke, who charged that the administration had slumbered on the terrorism fight didn't have a chance to rebut anything Rice said. Rice had the last word, and thus there could be no "he-said, she-said" exchanges between them. Rice was a loyal Bush soldier and shouldered some of the blame for the Sept. 11 lapse. This helped keep some sheen on her boss' Teflon shield.

http://alternet.org/columnists/story/33076/