Kevin Trudeau: Natural Cures

[Sassy]

I'm not one for infomercials but he has a lot of good points...Has anyone bought this book and tried any natural cures in it?

He pretty much bashes the pharmaceutical companies...saying it's all about the money and both non prescription and prescription meds are causing the diseases.

Hey Dr. Broncostein are you out there? What do you think?

[yavoon]

ur probably a good person, but god no.

http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/trudeau.html

more direct link

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/09/trudeaucoral.htm

[Sassy]

In addition, both Trudeau, Mega Systems, and Salberg will be required to disclose "THE PROGRAM YOU ARE WATCHING IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT FOR [THE PRODUCT OR SERVICE]" in television ads that are at least 15 minutes long, and to disclose the same audio message in radio ads that are at least five minutes long.

He was endorsing his book...not any companies or products.

[yavoon]

In addition, both Trudeau, Mega Systems, and Salberg will be required to disclose "THE PROGRAM YOU ARE WATCHING IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT FOR [THE PRODUCT OR SERVICE]" in television ads that are at least 15 minutes long, and to disclose the same audio message in radio ads that are at least five minutes long.

He was endorsing his book...not any companies or products.


well then I'd buy 2 copies

[Sassy]

I'm just saying I like his point about the drug companies being all about the money...I mean really...the doc gives you samples from some sales rep from the drug company...you come back and ask for a prescription. I'm sure some of it has to be a scam...and look at all the side effects these drugs have...some are worse than what the drug is actually prescribed for.

How long are they tested before put out on the market...no way to really know what they'll do to you down the road.

I do believe that preservatives in food are bad for you....hey, I quit drinking dt. coke (made me hungry) one time and within a month I lost five pounds without doing anything different except cutting dt. coke out of my diet.

[yavoon]

I'm just saying I like his point about the drug companies being all about the money...I mean really...the doc gives you samples from some sales rep from the drug company...you come back and ask for a prescription. I'm sure some of it has to be a scam...and look at all the side effects these drugs have...some are worse than what the drug is actually prescribed for.

How long are they tested before put out on the market...no way to really know what they'll do to you down the road.

I'm perfectly willing to have a conversation on the problems/benefits of ameria's current drug system, but not under the auspices that kevin trudeau holds the other side of the argument.

he's a transparent hack.

[Dagmar]

I'm not one for infomercials but he has a lot of good points...Has anyone bought this book and tried any natural cures in it?

He pretty much bashes the pharmaceutical companies...saying it's all about the money and both non prescription and prescription meds are causing the diseases.

Hey Dr. Broncostein are you out there? What do you think?
I work in a book store and we sell many copies of that book. The people purchasing it never sem on the highest rung of the evolutionary chain...

[Sassy]

I'm perfectly willing to have a conversation on the problems/benefits of ameria's current drug system, but not under the auspices that kevin trudeau holds the other side of the argument.

he's a transparent hack.
Whatever...I'm not saying it's true...I'm just saying there are good points to what he has to say.

[Sassy]

I work in a book store and we sell many copies of that book. The people purchasing it never sem on the highest rung of the evolutionary chain...
I don't know if I'd buy it...but I'd go to Barnes & Noble at check it out :)
Hey...everyone else treats that store like a library! ;D

[yavoon]

Whatever...I'm not saying it's true...I'm just saying there are good points to what he has to say.

=] I hope he gets fined millions of dollars for his book too.

[Sassy]

=] I hope he gets fined millions of dollars for his book too.
Don't buy it...Isn't that freedom of speech.

[yavoon]

Don't buy it...Isn't that freedom of speech.

Trudeau is paying $500,000 in cash and transferring residential property located in Ojai, California, and a luxury vehicle to the Commission to satisfy the $2 million monetary judgment against him. In the event that the court finds that Trudeau or his companies misrepresented their financial condition, the order would require Trudeau to pay $20 million pursuant to an avalanche clause.

“This ban is meant to shut down an infomercial empire that has misled American consumers for years,” said Lydia Parnes, Acting Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection. “Other habitual false advertisers should take a lesson; mend your ways or face serious consequences.”

apparently some things aren't protected.

[Sassy]

Apparently, you can type in somewhat of a sentence...

...Diet and exercise are a lot of what he seems to be promoting...along with vitamins and natural herbs...I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Diet and exercise alone have a lot to do with how the body feels/acts.

[yavoon]

Apparently, you can type in somewhat of a sentence...

...Diet and exercise are a lot of what he seems to be promoting...along with vitamins and natural herbs...I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Diet and exercise alone have a lot to do with how the body feels/acts.

hey if the ftc doesn't convince u...

[Dagmar]

I don't know if I'd buy it...but I'd go to Barnes & Noble at check it out :)
Hey...everyone else treats that store like a library! ;D
They do Sass (I don't work there), I like the freedom to do that in american book stores.

There are some interesting concepts explored in the book.
To state that drug companies are in it for the green is like stating the sky is blue.
From what I have heard, the book had so much potential but never reaches it's potential. It's title, plus marketing campaign have made people interested enough to buy it.
Don't buy it!

[yavoon]

They do Sass (I don't work there), I like the freedom to do that in american book stores.

There are some interesting concepts explored in the book.
To state that drug companies are in it for the green is like stating the sky is blue.
From what I have heard, the book had so much potential but never reaches it's potential. It's title, plus marketing campaign have made people interested enough to buy it.
Don't buy it!

the book has zero potential, it parrots what ppl think should be obvious then claims things that are unfounded and often ludicrous. all while playing off the counterpoint that the drug companies are evil.

if the drug companies are in it 80% for the money then he's in 182% for the money, he's had probably a dozen hoax products.

[24champ]

On this, our lucky day, Kevin Trudeau is introducing us to his personal electromagnetic chaos eliminator. Trudeau, who has sold millions of books by touting the curative properties of things such as magnetic toe rings and crocodile protein peptide, believes the sole thing keeping his brain from being "microwaved from the inside out" by cell phones and radio waves is this electromagnetic whatever. We are intrigued. "Would you like to see this magical device?"
Boy, would we!

http://mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2005/11/this_via_butter.html


Over the years, Trudeau, an ex-con who never went to college or medical school, has been remarkably successful doing infomercials for everything from how to achieve a photographic memory to how to cure your addictions to how to beat cancer by ingesting a particular type of calcium that, as fate would have it, he also happened to sell.

read the rest.....

[Dagmar]

Apparently, you can type in somewhat of a sentence...

...Diet and exercise are a lot of what he seems to be promoting...along with vitamins and natural herbs...I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Diet and exercise alone have a lot to do with how the body feels/acts.

Good diet + exercise = Feeling good

Everyone knows it, but most want an easier option that can fit taco bell/burger king/ macDs into their lifestyle.

[manchambo]

I'm just saying I like his point about the drug companies being all about the money...I mean really...the doc gives you samples from some sales rep from the drug company...you come back and ask for a prescription. I'm sure some of it has to be a scam...and look at all the side effects these drugs have...some are worse than what the drug is actually prescribed for.

How long are they tested before put out on the market...no way to really know what they'll do to you down the road.

I do believe that preservatives in food are bad for you....hey, I quit drinking dt. coke (made me hungry) one time and within a month I lost five pounds without doing anything different except cutting dt. coke out of my diet.

I don't know anything about this Trudeau person, but it's good to know that, unlike the pharmaceutical companies, he isn't out to make money.

[TheDave]

I would have to completely agree with yavoon on this.... Keep in mind if there were any "Real" cures for particular diseases the FDA would quickly regulate them. Diet, exercise, and over all healthy living will of course improve your quality of life, but you are not going to suddenly cure yourself of any major ailments by throwing down a couple of extra "natural" chemicals.

[24champ]

I don't know anything about this Trudeau person, but it's good to know that, unlike the pharmaceutical companies, he isn't out to make money.
so thats why he was in prison for credit card fraud? Because he wasnt out to make money?

[maven]

I'm just saying I like his point about the drug companies being all about the money..

And you're surprised? Your real target is the FDA.

[DomCasual]

Honestly, despite any valid points the book may or may not have, I can't take any of it seriously because of Kevin Trudeau's involvement. I have to at least give the guy credit for ingeniously being able to reinvent himself - over and over and over again.

The problem is, I don't honestly believe that he believes anything he is saying - any more than he believed in the 900#s he once sold, or the memory program he pitched, or the MLMs he's committed himself to, etc. He is the ultimate con man. And he has made fools out of the FTC's attorneys by constantly reinventing himself in ways they hadn't anticipated in their previous attempts to shut him down.

I have followed him since the early 90's - I used to know a guy that was the rival, in a sense, to Trudeau's memory system. This guy absolutely despised Trudeau, and used to almost obsess over him. The irony was that he was every bit the scumbag Kevin Trudeau was.

On a side note, I wanted to note the diplomacy yavoon seems to have adopted in the past several weeks. I have always said I thought he was an intelligent guy, and I have frankly never been able to stand him because of his abrasiveness. yavoon, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can honestly say I have appreciated what seems to be a genuine attempt at diplomacy lately.

I'm feeling verklempt. Talk among yourselves.

[DomCasual]

I don't know anything about this Trudeau person, but it's good to know that, unlike the pharmaceutical companies, he isn't out to make money.
Dude, please PLEASE tell me that you are being sarcastic.

[maven]

I'm not one for infomercials but he has a lot of good points...Has anyone bought this book and tried any natural cures in it?

He pretty much bashes the pharmaceutical companies...saying it's all about the money and both non prescription and prescription meds are causing the diseases.

Hey Dr. Broncostein are you out there? What do you think?

You created a thread on this scumbag?

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

[maven]

I'm not one for infomercials but he has a lot of good points...Has anyone bought this book and tried any natural cures in it?

He pretty much bashes the pharmaceutical companies...saying it's all about the money and both non prescription and prescription meds are causing the diseases.

Hey Dr. Broncostein are you out there? What do you think?

Seriously, this is dumber than stories about Mock's cat.

[Sassy]

Seriously, this is dumber than stories about Mock's cat.
Actually, I was looking at discussing natural cures more and drug companies making money more than Trudeau himself.

So you're calling me dumb for making a thread on this? It was just the infomercial by Treadeau that got me thinking about it.

[DomCasual]

By the way, Sassy - I am not discounting your perspective. The notion that there is some corruption in the pharmaceutical industry is indesputable. But Trudeau is like a deadly snake that comes into your home to warn you about the poisonous spider that lives under your bed - there's just not a lot of credibility there.

Regarding the pharmaceutical industry, consider this. The average life span in the US has gone from 49 years in 1900 to 77 years in 2000. And while there are many, many factors that have contributed to that, certainly modern medicine has played a role. So the industry can't be broad brushed as a bunch of pariahs without at least some consideration for the good it has done.

[Sassy]

I'm not saying that medicine isn't a good thing...but I do think doctors sometimes prescribe meds that aren't necessary.

[Kaylore]

The guy is a quack trying to hype people into buying his product. I'd normally be very supportive of that if he weren't making false claims that he holds panaceas to major diseases - many of them deadly. People could stop their standard treatment in favor of whatever he says in his book will work. A lot of people are going to get hurt trying to cure their cancer with his coral calcium or trying to cure AIDS by eating green leaf vegetables - all so he can make a buck. He's a bad person.

[Kaylore]

I'm not saying that medicine isn't a good thing...but I do think doctors sometimes prescribe meds that aren't necessary.
No doubt this is true and the US health care sytem is soundly broken. However, just because he points out some truths doesn't mean he won't lie about other things. "The Devil will tell a thousand truths to get you to believe a single lie."

He's right that the drug industry has congress' ear, but that doesn't mean his book can do what he suggests it can.

[manchambo]

Dude, please PLEASE tell me that you are being sarcastic.
do you think i'm being sarcastic?

[DomCasual]

Not knowing you all that well, I can say I only hope.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Modern quackery has several other names.

Scientific physicians describe "medical sects", "therapeutic cults", and "unproven remedies". Consumer advocates describe "health frauds".

Quacks themselves use other terms.

"Alternative Medicine" (notice the implication....)
"Natural Medicine" (for systems not using machines)
"Holistic Medicine" (the commonest term in the 1980's, and a perversion of a movement within scientific medicine)

Today, most popular systems calling themselves "holistic" are quackery. There are exceptions. See below.


Quackery may reasonably by defined as the making of health claims without an honest effort to validate them by the usual methods of science.

The technique of science (the "scientific method") is always the same:

1.State a hypothesis
2.Design a study to test it, using appropriate controls
3.Do the study
4.Analyze the results
5.Share the results with everyone

This method has never been used by the practitioners of any system of quackery.

NOTE: This is in glaring contrast to such "holistic" procedures as scientific acupuncture, biofeedback, hypnosis, and meditation, whose proponents have never hesitated to use the methods of science, and have been proud of doing so.

It is of no consequence that a quack practitioner may be "sincere".

Quacks are easy to recognize.

Quackery invests its efforts in propaganda directed at the public rather than in controlled research directed toward other professionals.

This is true of all types of quackery, from mouthwash to Laetrile.

The technique of quackery is usually the same regardless of the system.

1.Present false health claims confusingly.
2.Present bogus models of health, mankind, and even the universe.
3.Create fear of everything except quackery.
4.Pretend to love the victim and to share his or her values.
5.Offer false hope without making specific promises.
6.Operate as a bogus organization.

[DarkHorse30]

No doubt this is true and the US health care sytem is soundly broken. However, just because he points out some truths doesn't mean he won't lie about other things. "The Devil will tell a thousand truths to get you to believe a single lie."

He's right that the drug industry has congress' ear, but that doesn't mean his book can do what he suggests it can.

This is a half-truth. The US healthcare system ISN'T soundly broken....it's just expensive as hell. You can't deny that most "ills" are treatable in this country....and if you shopped for a good job with great insurance, you pay VERY little.

People who want something for nothing, should move to Canada or Mexico......and then move back illegally when they find it's too freakin' cold, or there isn't any money to be made south of Texas.

[broncohaven]

Trudeau's only goal is to make money by selling his products, but a lot of his points regarding the drug companies are accurate. A more reliable account is "The Truth About Drug Companies" by the former head of the New England Journal of Medicine. (I forget her name).


Yavoon,
I wouldn't put much weight in "Quackwatch". It's run by a former Psychiatrist who has no medical training, and receives commissions from the drug companies for referrals.

[Rascal]

There was a special on him on TV several weeks ago and what a complete fraud he is.

Don't waste your money.

[toad]

Some of his methods seem sensible...from what I know about health, nutrition, and fitness.

I personally don't buy his conspiracy theories on the pharma industry.

[Mediator12]

Andrew Weil's books are much more informative. He is a legitimate doctor and professor at Arizona. He explains the actual science of the body and discusses traditional and contemporary medicine's limitations. Most good doctors will as well.

You need to interview your doctor just like you would any other service provider. Just because they have an MD after their name does not make them good or even decent at what they do. It just means they passed all the hoops to get an MD. Contrary to popular belief, doctors are motivated by money just like everyone else too. Doctors have been found to misdiagnose serious illnesses in 20% of their cases. Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/22/business/22leonhardt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Trudeau has taken a few truth's and twisted them for his profit's. Worst and most deceptive type of lies. However, not all of what he espouses are lies. Yes, most are lies but not all. Anyone here never lie at all? Cast the first stone.

As for the pharmaceutical companies, they are definitely in it for the money. In response to your anxiety, there are drugs available to make you feel better, for a high price ;D

[kappys]

Apparently, you can type in somewhat of a sentence...

...Diet and exercise are a lot of what he seems to be promoting...along with vitamins and natural herbs...I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Diet and exercise alone have a lot to do with how the body feels/acts.

I would be very careful with this guy. Most doctors I know will be quick to warn you about the dangers of a good diet and exercise.

[doof]

Here's a nice commentary that pretty much tells you all you need to know about his book:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=0007A2C3-4664-13F3-B85583414B7F0101

[TheDave]

Great paragraph from doof's link...

So Trudeau is free to dole out in print such opinions as these: "Medical science has absolutely, 100 percent, failed in the curing and prevention of illness, sickness, and disease." (Smallpox is not a disease?) "Get all metal out of your dental work." (Won't this help the medical cartel?) "Sun block has been shown to cause cancer." (References?) "Don't drink tap water." (Wrong: studies show it is as safe as bottled water.) "Animals in the wild virtually never get sick." (No need to worry about avian influenza.) "Get 15 colonics in 30 days." (Can I bring a friend?) "Wear white.... The closer you get to white, the more positive energy you bring into your energetic field." (Why is Trudeau wearing all black on the book cover?) "Stop taking nonprescription and prescription drugs." (Including insulin for diabetes?) "This includes vaccines." (Welcome back, polio.) "Have sex." (Without prescription Viagra?)

[Boobs McGee]

Sassy -

I think that there is something to be said for healthy eating and living without pharmecuticals. Natural and holistic healing, organic foods and the like.

I worked at Mother's Market and Kitchen down in Costa Mesa, CA for a while, and I was introduced to some pretty amazing stuff.
They held daily seminars on a wide range of topics, from raw food dieting to homeopathic remedies. After I started talking more and more with my customers, I began realizing that the products they were buying were really helping.
Documented cancer patients going into complete remission from switching to an all organic diet, with homeopathic medicines and juicing becoming a staple of their daily food intake.

Truly incredible stories that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't read the paperwork and talked with the patients themselves.

I can't tell you how many times I'd wander back to the juice bar for a shot of wheatgrass to fix a toothache or a hot apple ginger snap to cure an upset stomach.
Organic produce and foods without preservatives really make a difference from my own personal experience.

From what I came to understand, organic produce has the most "living" nutrients, because of the lack of pesticides used and the transportation process. Your body can use those nutrients in an extremely efficient manner, as opposed to processed foods which are relatively nutrient free because of the fact that everything is already "dead".

Very interesting stuff.....Not too sure how it all relates, but I definitely know that I was in the best health of my life when I was working there, and never took any kind of medication or pharmecutical (not even aspirin or tylenol) for almost a year while I was employed there.

As for the book, I really don't know, but if the guy is as bad as he's made out to be, it's unfortunate because I really think there is a lot to be said for Natural or Holistic healing.

[Popps]

Actually, I was looking at discussing natural cures more and drug companies making money more than Trudeau himself.

So you're calling me dumb for making a thread on this? It was just the infomercial by Treadeau that got me thinking about it.

You're not dumb, obviously. You just have to keep in mind what a think tank this place is, Sassy. ::) God forbid you interrupt people's "Which porn star is best" threads with a thread like this.

Trudeau IS a fraud, there's no question. (He's been exposed many times over.)

But, he DOES raise valid points, and Americans SHOULD be suspicious of the healthcare industry. (No to mention the insurance industry.) You can't watch T.V. for 5 minutes these days without being bombarded with commercials for Prozaire, Flozaine, Propaire, Blowsaire, bla bla bla.

The money to be made on pharmaceuticals is beyond comprehension. It's not a stretch to assume that an industry that has made it's living shaking down people... might not do what it could to block competition. It's just a shame that the only person out there saying anything about it is some kook like Trudeau.

[Popps]

Come to think of it, wasn't Doughnut Boy supposed to be making a "documentary" about the Healthcare industry? What ever happened to that?

Wait.. I just checked. Check this **** out:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=193

... right from his website. It's an open letter, begging people to send in their horror stories about the healthcare industry. Hey, way to be open-minded, Mike. I see you're still looking for the "truth," eh? Way to get both sides of the story.

Great, so... now we've got Trudeau, and 2Tons-o-Fun on the case. I feel safe.

[BroncoBuff]

If these cures worked, you wouldn't need to buy time with infomercials ... they'd be on ABC World News Tonight - free of charge.

The old saying goes double when talking about medicine: "Build a Better Mousetrap, and the World Will Beat a Path to Your Door."

That said, there are a couple of VERY SERIOUS and WELL-KNOWN and PROVEN health products that have and are languishing in the marketplace!

ONE: Olestra. This zero-fat oil substitute marketed by Proctor & Gamble in the mid-nineties was the real thing. A binder enzyme added to the olestra oil stopped the fat molecules from binding in the human digestive system ... FAT-FREE chips that taste exactly the same as regular! P&G was looking into olestra baking and other dietary products. But then, in the last stages of trials, a very rare side-effect was reported. Anal leakage. Quite rare (3 in 1000 if I recall), but high enough that the FDA mandated a warning be included. Jay Leno had a field day, and for whatever reason, the safest and best tasting dietary product since aspartame was ignored by consumers. You can still buy them ... Lays' "WOW" chips ... but few people do. P&G thought olestra would permeate the food market 100% in less than a decade. Wrong. FAT-FREE ... and EXACT same taste ... but people still won't buy 'em.

TWO: Promise and SmartBalance spreads. They're doing fairly well, but still haven't captured any marketplace ... despite the fact they are actually THERAPEUTIC! That's right, eating theses spreads by the spoonful has a POSITIVE health benefit. If you know about HDL vs. LDL, you understand ... but short story is, these spreads have a huge "good cholesterol" balance vs. "bad cholesterol." As good as some statin drugs. Of course, there are still calories in the spreads, that's another issue ... but these spreads really are THERAPEUTIC if you have cholesterol problems. I use the Smart Balance Light with Omega-3 fish oils and flaxseed. And I spread it liberally. Tastes great, no guilt. In fact, quite the opposite.

But I have to drive 3 miles to a bigger Albertsons to get it. People should know this stuff. (Maybe SmartBalance and Promise should buy infomercials.)

[loborugger]

ur probably a good person, but god no.

http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/trudeau.html

more direct link

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/09/trudeaucoral.htm

Oh, come on. I saw an 80 minute video on the internet showing how the FTC is in bed with the big drug companies to destroy competetion. Come on, look at frame 57 of the Zapruder film... it clearly shows an FTC lawyer pulling the trigger.

[Mediator12]

You're not dumb, obviously. You just have to keep in mind what a think tank this place is, Sassy. ::) God forbid you interrupt people's "Which porn star is best" threads with a thread like this.

Trudeau IS a fraud, there's no question. (He's been exposed many times over.)

But, he DOES raise valid points, and Americans SHOULD be suspicious of the healthcare industry. (No to mention the insurance industry.) You can't watch T.V. for 5 minutes these days without being bombarded with commercials for Prozaire, Flozaine, Propaire, Blowsaire, bla bla bla.

The money to be made on pharmaceuticals is beyond comprehension. It's not a stretch to assume that an industry that has made it's living shaking down people... might not do what it could to block competition. It's just a shame that the only person out there saying anything about it is some kook like Trudeau.

Excellent reply popps. Finally, something I agree 100% with you ;D

I distrust any industry that tried to use Hydrozine (READ leftover Nazi jet fuel) to cure tuberculosis and when that failed used it to treat Schizophrenic and mood disorder patients who could not elaborate how the side effects were worse than the symptoms.

The side effects of the majority of drugs are worse than what they treat, most medicines treat symptoms and fail to cure or enhance quality of life, and in 1998 an extensive study published in the reputable Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed that 106,000 people die each year in American hospitals from medication side effects.

[Meck77]

I've never heard of Trudeau but I have a dad who is 80 years old with a cabinet full...I mean full of medication that his doctors prescribed to him that he shelves when he gets home....lol

He use to take all the crap they gave him for heart issues, arthritis etc. He's gone back to fruits/vegetables and is feeling better now then when he was 55. He's definetly older and not as strong but he swears the medications he was taking was killing him and he'd be dead if had listened to his doctors.

[Popps]

I've never heard of Trudeau but I have a dad who is 80 years old with a cabinet full...I mean full of medication that his doctors prescribed to him that he shelves when he gets home....lol

He use to take all the crap they gave him for heart issues, arthritis etc. He's gone back to fruits/vegetables and is feeling better now then when he was 55. He's definetly older and not as strong but he swears the medications he was taking was killing him and he'd be dead if had listened to his doctors.

Glad to hear it, man.

Unfortunately, I have a 38 year old friend who WILL be dead soon... as the result of TWO mis-diagnosis. He was told that his throat cancer was acid-reflux. (Twice) It spread... you know the rest.

I always have been, and always will be highly distrustful of any type of healthcare practitioner. It's a distrust based not on any kind of personal feelings, but on evidence. I can't tell you how many times people in my family have had doctors misdiagnose (major) problems. Luckily, we have a couple of medically very well-read people in my family who keep an eye on all of us.

Basically, I'd recommend that any time a doctor tells you something... treat it as something you read on the internet. Could be true, but you'll have to do research to find out. Second opinions, PDR research, etc. (And yes, the web CAN help.)

[Mediator12]

Glad to hear it, man.

Unfortunately, I have a 38 year old friend who WILL be dead soon... as the result of TWO mis-diagnosis. He was told that his throat cancer was acid-reflux. (Twice) It spread... you know the rest.

I always have been, and always will be highly distrustful of any type of healthcare practitioner. It's a distrust based not on any kind of personal feelings, but on evidence. I can't tell you how many times people in my family have had doctors misdiagnose (major) problems. Luckily, we have a couple of medically very well-read people in my family who keep an eye on all of us.

Basically, I'd recommend that any time a doctor tells you something... treat it as something you read on the internet. Could be true, but you'll have to do research to find out. Second opinions, PDR research, etc. (And yes, the web CAN help.)


Doctors have been found to misdiagnose serious illnesses in 20% of their cases. Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/22/bu...=1&oref=slogin

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Glad to hear it, man.

Unfortunately, I have a 38 year old friend who WILL be dead soon... as the result of TWO mis-diagnosis. He was told that his throat cancer was acid-reflux. (Twice) It spread... you know the rest.

I always have been, and always will be highly distrustful of any type of healthcare practitioner. It's a distrust based not on any kind of personal feelings, but on evidence. I can't tell you how many times people in my family have had doctors misdiagnose (major) problems. Luckily, we have a couple of medically very well-read people in my family who keep an eye on all of us.

Basically, I'd recommend that any time a doctor tells you something... treat it as something you read on the internet. Could be true, but you'll have to do research to find out. Second opinions, PDR research, etc. (And yes, the web CAN help.)

I assume by "throat" you mean esophageal cancer... add to that the fact that your friend was obviously having symptoms. Symptomatic esophageal cancer is uniformly fatal. The only hope is finding it incidentally on an EGD while it is contained to the mucosa... which then requires one of the most rediculously brutal surgeries to excise the tumor and reconstitute the GI tract. Almost all esophageal cancer has spread to the lympatics if not frankly metastatic by the time someone has symptoms. Its a horrible diagnosis. My condolences.

[listopencil]

ONE: Olestra. This zero-fat oil substitute marketed by Proctor & Gamble in the mid-nineties was the real thing. A binder enzyme added to the olestra oil stopped the fat molecules from binding in the human digestive system ... FAT-FREE chips that taste exactly the same as regular! P&G was looking into olestra baking and other dietary products. But then, in the last stages of trials, a very rare side-effect was reported. Anal leakage. Quite rare (3 in 1000 if I recall), but high enough that the FDA mandated a warning be included. Jay Leno had a field day, and for whatever reason, the safest and best tasting dietary product since aspartame was ignored by consumers. You can still buy them ... Lays' "WOW" chips ... but few people do. P&G thought olestra would permeate the food market 100% in less than a decade. Wrong. FAT-FREE ... and EXACT same taste ... but people still won't buy 'em.






Yeah, maybe "anal leakage" only happened in three out of a thousand but it made everyone have to poop really bad.

[anthonypacino]

I'm not one for infomercials but he has a lot of good points...Has anyone bought this book and tried any natural cures in it?

He pretty much bashes the pharmaceutical companies...saying it's all about the money and both non prescription and prescription meds are causing the diseases.

Hey Dr. Broncostein are you out there? What do you think?
Sass, My 78 yr old aunt bought that book, it's a scam, it doesn't tell about any natural cures, it just refers you to some other book or newsletter that Trudeau is selling, and most of the reports are not written by legit Docs. I think any lifestyle without chemicals and such would be great but that is very expensive to do these days, isn't sad that something good for you is usually more expensive and harder to find than a greasy cheeseburger. In the end it is all about money of course. No major cures for diease since polio? Cause they can make more money from "treatment" rather than a one time cure, just like why after 100 years of having cars they can't build one that gets better than 50-60 miles a gallon, or one that can run on something other than gas.

[Bronco Yoda]

I worked at Mother's Market and Kitchen down in Costa Mesa, CA for a while, and I was introduced to some pretty amazing stuff.
They held daily seminars on a wide range of topics, from raw food dieting to homeopathic remedies. After I started talking more and more with my customers, I began realizing that the products they were buying were really helping.


What a truely small world it can be sometimes!!!!! Up until very recently I lived in Costa Mesa then Newport Beach for 15 years and I shopped at that very Mothers Market ALL the time!!!! It's a pretty small healthfood store. The Wife could be accused of living there at times (by me..lol) and when she wasn't she was sending ME there with her shopping lists.

I'm sure I probably ran you down (with a perplexed look pointing at a long list of hippy items) more than once asking where the 'natural enzyme yogurt is or some other wacky thing... But I always made the trips worth it by getting my pick-your-own 5 lb bag of ultra trail mix which rivaled the price of a trip to Costco.

I don't know you bronconia but I'll wager I probably spoke with you before. Probably more than once :peace:

[Boobs McGee]

What a truely small world it can be sometimes!!!!! Up until very recently I lived in Costa Mesa then Newport Beach for 15 years and I shopped at that very Mothers Market ALL the time!!!! It's a pretty small healthfood store. The Wife could be accused of living there at times (by me..lol) and when she wasn't she was sending ME there with her shopping lists.

I'm sure I probably ran you down (with a perplexed look pointing at a long list of hippy items) more than once asking where the 'natural enzyme yogurt is or some other wacky thing... But I always made the trips worth it by getting my pick-your-own 5 lb bag of ultra trail mix which rivaled the price of a trip to Costco.

I don't know you bronconia but I'll wager I probably spoke with you before. Probably more than once :peace:

HA!

THAT'S AWESOME!


I'm suuuure I probably rang you up once or twice, I was a talker, and loved helping people. THAT TRAIL MIX WAS THE BOOOOOMB. My favorite bulk item over there was the dried mango. MMMMMMMmmmmmmm. That vegan restaurant in the store busted out some inCREDible food.

Man I miss that place!

I was a cashier, my name is Cory. Cameron used to be my immediate boss....I was usually the closing cashier. Sammy used to come in every night right at the end to sell his pictures. Jason was doing grocery work, Alex (one of the most gorgeous women in the world) always steered me in the right direction back in the vitamin department.

I can't believe how small the world is!!!!!

I bet we know each other.

HA!

Anyways, glad to hear you were eating healthy!!

[BroncoBuff]

commercials for Prozaire, Flozaine, Propaire, Blowsaire
Your new medicines intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Popps]

Your new medicines intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Side effects may include gas, night terrors, loss of limbs, dementia and in rare cases, the blahs.

[Popps]

I assume by "throat" you mean esophageal cancer...

No, I meant throat... and had it been properly recognized the first couple of times he went in for a recurring throat problem (he's a singer) ... he may have been able to start his treatment much earlier, and it may not have spread the way it did.

I'm fairly sure he would have preferred another year or so with his family, even if that's all the earlier treatment bought him.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

No, I meant throat... and had it been properly recognized the first couple of times he went in for a recurring throat problem (he's a singer) ... he may have been able to start his treatment much earlier, and it may not have spread the way it did.

I'm fairly sure he would have preferred another year or so with his family, even if that's all the earlier treatment bought him.

Throat implies the neck to me... including the esophagus, larynx, trachea, and cervical lymph nodes as places most likely to become primarily malignant. Cancer, as far as the differential diagnosis for ANY 38 year old (except female breast and female cervix), is about the least common disease encountered. Again, by the time there are symptoms, its usually too late.

There are several cancers for which routine screening is available and justifiable. Colon, breast, cervical, and skin cancers come to mind. The key is to pick these up before ANY symptom has developed.... I.E. finding a polyp on colonoscopy 10 years before it becomes a bleeding or obstructing carcinoma.... or finding a non-palpable microscopic calcification on a mamogram that is invasive breast cancer.

My point is that your disdain for the scientific medical community seems, at least on the surface, somewhat misguided to me... especially if you are basing it off a case where a young person has symptomatic cancer of any sort. I'm sure the last thing in the world any of the involved physicians wanted to do was miss the diagnosis of cancer.

[Kaylore]

http://www.infomercialwatch.org/tran/trudeau.shtml
If these "cures"were effective, wouldn't they be making headlines everywhere? Trudeau apparently would like you to believe that he is the only person who is willing to reveal the secrets.

[Mediator12]

Throat implies the neck to me... including the esophagus, larynx, trachea, and cervical lymph nodes as places most likely to become primarily malignant. Cancer, as far as the differential diagnosis for ANY 38 year old (except female breast and female cervix), is about the least common disease encountered. Again, by the time there are symptoms, its usually too late.

There are several cancers for which routine screening is available and justifiable. Colon, breast, cervical, and skin cancers come to mind. The key is to pick these up before ANY symptom has developed.... I.E. finding a polyp on colonoscopy 10 years before it becomes a bleeding or obstructing carcinoma.... or finding a non-palpable microscopic calcification on a mamogram that is invasive breast cancer.

My point is that your disdain for the scientific medical community seems, at least on the surface, somewhat misguided to me... especially if you are basing it off a case where a young person has symptomatic cancer of any sort. I'm sure the last thing in the world any of the involved physicians wanted to do was miss the diagnosis of cancer.

Dr. Broncenstein,

I have no ill will towards the scientific medical community, but I expect it to do a better job than it is doing right now. The medical community has one of the most stressful and difficult jobs in todays society. However, that does not exclude it from criticism and scrutiny. Patients and corporations are paying heavily for good service and receiving inconsistant care.

I have had some excellent doctors because I have been involved in my own care, know how the system works, and researched their qualifications. I have many friends who are doctors including several who work with the Colts. There are excellent people employed as doctors, just not enough.

That being said, the average patient in this country does not receive consistant quality care because they are unable or unaware of how to get quality care. I do have disdain for doctors who prescribe drugs just to do something. I am apalled that misdiagnosis is so prevalent that it affects 1 in 5 deaths of serious diseases. I am even more apalled at drug companies, health insurance and providers, and doctors that have made health care in general miserable to the average patient.

Like everything else, there are great doctors and poor doctors. Most fall somewhere in between. I try to judge them on their merits, but have some bias overall in the system that rewards the number of treatments a doctor performs over the quality of those treatments.

[Sassy]

Dr. Broncenstein,

I have no ill will towards the scientific medical community, but I expect it to do a better job than it is doing right now. The medical community has one of the most stressful and difficult jobs in todays society. However, that does not exclude it from criticism and scrutiny. Patients and corporations are paying heavily for good service and receiving inconsistant care.

I have had some excellent doctors because I have been involved in my own care, know how the system works, and researched their qualifications. I have many friends who are doctors including several who work with the Colts. There are excellent people employed as doctors, just not enough.

That being said, the average patient in this country does not receive consistant quality care because they are unable or unaware of how to get quality care. I do have disdain for doctors who prescribe drugs just to do something. I am apalled that misdiagnosis is so prevalent that it affects 1 in 5 deaths of serious diseases. I am even more apalled at drug companies, health insurance and providers, and doctors that have made health care in general miserable to the average patient.

Like everything else, there are great doctors and poor doctors. Most fall somewhere in between. I try to judge them on their merits, but have some bias overall in the system that rewards the number of treatments a doctor performs over the quality of those treatments.
Well said!

[Popps]

My point is that your disdain for the scientific medical community seems, at least on the surface, somewhat misguided to me... especially if you are basing it off a case where a young person has symptomatic cancer of any sort. I'm sure the last thing in the world any of the involved physicians wanted to do was miss the diagnosis of cancer.

It's definitely based on a long series of events that took place LONG before the unfortunate situation I spoke about... and I would never accuse any doctor of intentionally misdiagnosing a patient.

That said, when I take my car in... mechanics fix it correctly 95% of the time.
Doctors? I'd say about 1/3rd of the time, they can't even figure out what's wrong, much less fix it. That's just been my experience, and my experience watching my friends and family deal with the healthcare industry. Add to that the fact that we pay through the nose for even the most minimal healthcare, and you've got a formula that's going to piss some people off.

You're a doctor, so I expect you to defend your field of work. If you came in here making blanket statements about your experience with Audio Engineers, I'd defend my colleagues, too.

Just speaking my mind, from my own experiences... and encouraging people to have what I consider a healthy distrust of physicians. Doesn't mean you, it just means in general.

[Mtbrncofn]

Yeah, maybe "anal leakage" only happened in three out of a thousand but it made everyone have to poop really bad.


No ****. Or more appropriately go ****. I remember trying them about 10 years ago and being all excited and as I was eating them, I was reading the back of the bag. Within about 2 minutes, those horrid cramps started....and we all know the rest.

[Kaylore]

Here's the problem.

I have a sever cold/flu. My throat is swollen shut, I feel like crap. I decide to go see a doctor. They look down my throat, check my pulse, blah, blah, blah.

They tell me "It appears that you have a sever cold/flu. I recommend that you take these drugs for the symptoms and drink fluids. I will now bill your insurance provider eleventy billion dollars to look down your throat, tell you something you knew when you came in, and prescribe something a child could have told you. I will do this because I want eleventy billion dollars and because I can." I smile and leave because my co-pay is only ten dollars. I'm very satisfied that I now can take some fancier drugs than I have at home even though I'll be sick for the same amount of time had I not gone in. You keep the eleventy billion minus ten.

Somewhere in a small office, little old insurance man gets his bill for eleventy billion dollars from my doctor and says "Hmmm. It appears that this bill of eleventy billion dollars is hurting our profit margin. I guess we'll have to raise rates." And so I get my rate the next year and it is very expensive. I keep going in to get my money's worth out of my increasingly expensive insurance. Doctors keep price-gouging the insurance companies and the companies keep pushing the added cost back onto me.

Each year the rates go up and up and each year fewer and fewer people can afford insurance as the Docs and Insurance companies keep outbidding each other.

Now here's an interesting counter story. My Brother had appendicitis last month. He also was jobless with no insurance. So at the hospital he says "I have appendicitis. I also have no money. What can you do for me?"

The surgery bill was cut in half. They comped him the room he stayed in and put him on a payment plan to take care of the costs.

There have been other times when he's talked to doctors and after explaining to them he doesn't have money, they break him a huge deal to help him afford the care he needs.

In a capitalist society the service giver is usually supposed to compete for the customer's business by offering some higher quality or lower price. The third element of the insurance company takes that dynamic away. Unfortunately hardly anyone can afford to just pay for major procedures like heart care or Cancer treatment, so insurance is necessary. And now we have people who can't afford the "awesome care" this country supposedly provides.

[yavoon]

Here's the problem.

I have a sever cold/flu. My throat is swollen shut, I feel like crap. I decide to go see a doctor. They look down my throat, check my pulse, blah, blah, blah.

They tell me "It appears that you have a sever cold/flu. I recommend that you take these drugs for the symptoms and drink fluids. I will now bill your insurance provider eleventy billion dollars to look down your throat, tell you something you knew when you came in, and prescribe something a child could have told you. I will do this because I want eleventy billion dollars and because I can." I smile and leave because my co-pay is only ten dollars. I'm very satisfied that I now can take some fancier drugs than I have at home even though I'll be sick for the same amount of time had I not gone in. You keep the eleventy billion minus ten.

Somewhere in a small office, little old insurance man gets his bill for eleventy billion dollars from my doctor and says "Hmmm. It appears that this bill of eleventy billion dollars is hurting our profit margin. I guess we'll have to raise rates." And so I get my rate the next year and it is very expensive. I keep going in to get my money's worth out of my increasingly expensive insurance. Doctors keep price-gouging the insurance companies and the companies keep pushing the added cost back onto me.

Each year the rates go up and up and each year fewer and fewer people can afford insurance as the Docs and Insurance companies keep outbidding each other.

Now here's an interesting counter story. My Brother had appendicitis last month. He also was jobless with no insurance. So at the hospital he says "I have appendicitis. I also have no money. What can you do for me?"

The surgery bill was cut in half. They comped him the room he stayed in and put him on a payment plan to take care of the costs.

There have been other times when he's talked to doctors and after explaining to them he doesn't have money, they break him a huge deal to help him afford the care he needs.

In a capitalist society the service giver is usually supposed to compete for the customer's business by offering some higher quality or lower price. The third element of the insurance company takes that dynamic away. Unfortunately hardly anyone can afford to just pay for major procedures like heart care or Cancer treatment, so insurance is necessary. And now we have people who can't afford the "awesome care" this country supposedly provides.


while that no money trick is funny. the rates between doctors and insurance companies are pre-negotiated and are not just some doctor discression eleventy billion. they are also much much cheaper than the rates u would get if u went into a hospital and actually had money:)

[Kaylore]

while that no money trick is funny. the rates between doctors and insurance companies are pre-negotiated and are not just some doctor discression eleventy billion. they are also much much cheaper than the rates u would get if u went into a hospital and actually had money:)
You're right in that the number isn't totally arbitrary. I was obviously using hyperbole. However the scenario I described is why health care in the US is too expensive.

[yavoon]

You're right in that the number isn't totally arbitrary. I was obviously using hyperbole. However the scenario I described is why health care in the US is too expensive.

I dont see how. insurance companies are responsible for lower rates. are u saying low copays are responsible for hypochondria?