Now that the whole world knows our ports are a security nightmare...

[baja]

What American city do you expect to wake up one morning to read does not exist anymore and why do you chose that city as a target?

[alkemical]

I'd say somewhere in texas.

[baja]

I think the terrorists will target San Diego because it is a border city with a port and has a huge military presence there also the nuclear sub bases are there as well.

[GonzoLays]

The United States of America

Land of somewhat free, home of the pussies.

[baja]

The United States of America

Land of somewhat free, home of the pussies.

I realize you are not a poster to be taken seriously but I really don't think we are a nation of pussies but it will be difficult to regain the lost freedoms and the desire needed will be found only through extreme pain.

[alkemical]

Actually he has a point.

[Spider]

What city ? I will go with the obvious New York city , for 2 reasons .......
1. disrupt commerce .....USA is already in deep debt , why not add to it ?
population ....... hit a large target of people at once .......
2. easier escape , you hit the west coast , you have Hawaii , guam to get past , not to mention a quick strike from alaska , from the east coast you can put the the Navy in a persuit position instead of an intercept ........ either choice doesnt bode well though , Sosis in the atlantic , will pretty much tell the Navy were you are going ......

[DBruleU]

how about casper, wyoming & LA.

[Spider]

how about casper, wyoming & LA.
whats in Casper ? LA is too spread out ................

[rbackfactory80]

What city ? I will go with the obvious New York city , for 2 reasons .......
1. disrupt commerce .....USA is already in deep debt , why not add to it ?
population ....... hit a large target of people at once .......
2. easier escape , you hit the west coast , you have Hawaii , guam to get past , not to mention a quick strike from alaska , from the east coast you can put the the Navy in a persuit position instead of an intercept ........ either choice doesnt bode well though , Sosis in the atlantic , will pretty much tell the Navy were you are going ......


God forbid, NYC gets everything. I think the next city that has the attack will have nothing to do with ports. I would say 1. Las Vegas and an outside chance at L.A.

[RaiderH8r]

I think New Orleans....oh wait.

[Spider]

God forbid, NYC gets everything. I think the next city that has the attack will have nothing to do with ports. I would say 1. Las Vegas and an outside chance at L.A.
NYC is probably one of the best citys in the world ...........

[rbackfactory80]

NYC is probably one of the best citys in the world ...........


If anyone knows its me, born and raised. I am one of the very few native New Yorkers.

[Spider]

If anyone knows its me, born and raised. I am one of the very few native New Yorkers.
;D I used to make runs New york city lmost every week , hunts point in the Bronks , to grand union foods in Long Island ........made a few stops around 14 th and Washington , Just a great city , no matter where you go ....... Been to queens alot ..............

[rbackfactory80]

;D I used to make runs New york city lmost every week , hunts point in the Bronks , to grand union foods in Long Island ........made a few stops around 14 th and Washington , Just a great city , no matter where you go ....... Been to queens alot ..............

I am actually from Manhattan, but have family in Queens, Staten Island, and also many relatives on Long Island which is nice in the summer.:sunshine:

[Spider]

I am actually from Manhattan, but have family in Queens, Staten Island, and also many relatives on Long Island which is nice in the summer.:sunshine:
right on ..................:approve:

[Meck77]

. I would say 1. Las Vegas and an outside chance at L.A.

Yeah in the back of my mind I've been thinking Vegas would be an attractive target for those bastards. There is so much chaos on the strip that it seems AQ could easily do damage there (oklahoma city style) and nobody would know the difference.

Not to mention it would shake this country and the world to the core knowing that America's #1 tourist destination isn't safe.

They already rocked our financial district. I could see them going after a more personal one next.

[Bronx33]

With the new deal (if it goes through) would increase the likely hood of a over seas container sized bomb ehhh?

[Spider]

With the new deal (if it goes through) would increase the likely hood of a over seas container sized bomb ehhh?
in my opinion yes ..............

[Bronx33]

in my opinion yes ..............


How they can even concider adding that variable to homeland security blows me away.

[TheDave]

With the new deal (if it goes through) would increase the likely hood of a over seas container sized bomb ehhh?

lets hope they don't try and use the entire container... that size Denver becomes ocean front property

[TailgateNut]

With the new deal (if it goes through) would increase the likely hood of a over seas container sized bomb ehhh?

I think the "new deal" may increase the likelyhood of Operator involvement, but the likelyhood of an actual occurance outside of the operators control area will not increase nor decrease unless the current security policies are addressed.

[Spider]

How they can even concider adding that variable to homeland security blows me away.
i think it is money driven , and when it comes to these global corperations and our safty .......... we lose out..............

[Bronx33]

i think it is money driven , and when it comes to these global corperations and our safty .......... we lose out..............


It's always about money, pretty fricken sad whom ever is on this payroll.

[TheDave]

This one is completely money driven. A good friend of mine said that his company APL (American Presidents Line) also bid on this contract. If i remember right their bid was between 5.2 and 5.4 billion. Being that his company is singapore owned he was uncomfortable with them running it also.

I asked him if he felt this was a serious risk... he told me some of the basics of how port security is run and concluded with something to the effect that this was suicide. Something to keep in mind this guy is one of my old republican friends... If their is an elephant by their name thats who gets his vote.

[Spider]

scary shít ..........

[TailgateNut]

This one is completely money driven. A good friend of mine said that his company APL (American Presidents Line) also bid on this contract. If i remember right their bid was between 5.2 and 5.4 billion. Being that his company is singapore owned he was uncomfortable with them running it also.

I asked him if he felt this was a serious risk... he told me some of the basics of how port security is run and concluded with something to the effect that this was suicide. Something to keep in mind this guy is one of my old republican friends... If their is an elephant by their name thats who gets his vote.

One of the "BIGGER ISSUES" is the fact that the current security procedures are lackluster at best. We're lucky we haven't been infiltrated thruogh one of or ports to date. (If we haven't!). Don't get me wrong, I'm completely against the thought of foreign Companies having any Security control of our entry points!

[Spider]

This isnt just a company , it i a country , a company owned by the state of the AUE ........ This is what has me worried ...........

[TheDave]

One of the "BIGGER ISSUES" is the fact that the current security procedures are lackluster at best. We're lucky we haven't been infiltrated thruogh one of or ports to date. (If we haven't!). Don't get me wrong, I'm completely against the thought of foreign Companies having any Security control of our entry points!

and he did say that or current security level is absurd, But the things he was telling me about security at nights after the long shoreman leave and how simple it would be to drive a truck in and unload it just made the current security measures (or lack of) twice as bad.

[TailgateNut]

The other night on 60 minutes a former Coast Guard Commander was interviewed. The information revealed is absolutely horrifying. According to him actual searches of containers may be as low as 1%.
Not bad odds for a terrorist!

[TheDave]

The other night on 60 minutes a former Coast Guard Commander was interviewed. The information revealed is absolutely horrifying. According to him actual searches of containers may be as low as 1%.
Not bad odds for a terrorist!

Yeah i've heard that... Keep in mind i believe that coast gaurd was talking about physical searches. My friend said on the west coast they are pretty good at scanning 25%... but actual physical searches were only about 5%.

Still damn good odds for a terrorist, but if the ccompany running the security is on the take those odds go to 100%

[TailgateNut]

Yeah i've heard that... Keep in mind i believe that coast gaurd was talking about physical searches. My friend said on the west coast they are pretty good at scanning 25%... but actual physical searches were only about 5%.

Still damn good odds for a terrorist, but if the ccompany running the security is on the take those odds go to 100%

One of the concerns I have is the fact that the Port operator is in charge of the security within his property. The majority of ports are located next to metropolitan areas. If a container with a device is unloaded and stored on site (which falls under the security of the operator), it can be detonated and still do unimaginable damage!

[Garcia Bronco]

It would be almost impossible to bring a nuclear weapon into this country. consider size, radation, and money...it would be damn hard. About the only place you could do it is a sea port...because you'd need a lead lined container big enough to hold and conceal the radation

[alkemical]

suitcase nuke

[Bronx33]

It would be almost impossible to bring a nuclear weapon into this country. consider size, radation, and money...it would be damn hard. About the only place you could do it is a sea port...because you'd need a lead lined container big enough to hold and conceal the radation


My point of the whole issue would be giving the terrorist another avenue/opportunity which i think shouldn't even be concidered (but it is) which makes me sick to my stomach.

[El Guapo]

according to Tom Clancy? Denver.

shows that the terrorists can strike the center of america with no problem.

[alkemical]

salina, ks is the dead centre of america.

[El Guapo]

is that a major metropolitan area?

[alkemical]

no, but it's geographically the dead centre of the usa

[baja]

Yeah in the back of my mind I've been thinking Vegas would be an attractive target for those bastards. There is so much chaos on the strip that it seems AQ could easily do damage there (oklahoma city style) and nobody would know the difference.

Not to mention it would shake this country and the world to the core knowing that America's #1 tourist destination isn't safe.

They already rocked our financial district. I could see them going after a more personal one next.

Nah, too many terrorists vacation in Vegas........

[Hotrod]

suitcase nuke

Maybe maybe not those to my understanding are very hard to construct. I think more likely would be a dirty bomb or hell even a conventional bomb. Those crates are huge and the damage just from a conventional bomb would/could be huge.

Somewhat off topic but the media has been known to say that a dirty bomb is more of a scare weapon and not really a WMD since the fallout damage would not be all that great. I wonder it the people who get blown up/radiation damage would see it that way.

[alkemical]

i dunno, after the cold war, the former USSR didn't really keep good records of everything.

[Meck77]

and he did say that or current security level is absurd, But the things he was telling me about security at nights after the long shoreman leave and how simple it would be to drive a truck in and unload it just made the current security measures (or lack of) twice as bad.


So your friend is saying we have no ****ing clue what is going on at our ports anyway.

I'm not exactly in favor of this sale to the UAE but is it really going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things? It's been reported time and time again that at our AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS hardly any of the containers are checked anyway. I just can't see the UAE risking 6 Billion bucks to sneak a bomb in thru their port when it can be snuck thru any of the other ports with a great probablity of it getting thru! Besides the UAE knows it's going to be under a microscope compared to the AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS.

I asked this question before with no response. Is the next step to not sell residential homes to Arabs? Do we start taking away their property that they already own?

Afterall a terrorist only needs a roof over their head and basic bomb building supplies to make a suicide bomb that could kill dozens of people at once! I'm sure we already have a few thousand insurgent types in our country that are just waiting for the orders to come their way. The timing probably isn't right.

Do we start shipping Arabs out of the country next?

I know I know you guys wont' want to answer my questions. They were all ignored the first time.

Just trying to bring another viewpoint to the table other than "If we sell this port to the UAE America is finished".

[Hotrod]

So your friend is saying we have no ****ing clue what is going on at our ports anyway.

I'm not exactly in favor of this sale to the UAE but is it really going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things? It's been reported time and time again that at our AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS hardly any of the containers are checked anyway. I just can't see the UAE risking 6 Billion bucks to sneak a bomb in thru their port when it can be snuck thru any of the other ports with a great probablity of it getting thru! Besides the UAE knows it's going to be under a microscope compared to the AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS.

I asked this question before with no response. Is the next step to not sell residential homes to Arabs? Do we start taking away their property that they already own?

Afterall a terrorist only needs a roof over their head and basic bomb building supplies to make a suicide bomb that could kill dozens of people at once!

Do we start shipping Arabs out of the country next?

I know I know you guys wont' want to answer my questions. They were all ignored the first time.

Just trying to bring another viewpoint to the table other than "If we sell this port to the UAE America is finished".

LOL nobodys touching your question because your obviously trying to twist it into a racist arguement against arabs. Problem here is them owning a home is very different then owning a port. Also your examples of "whats next" dont even match alot like apples to oranges. The Port would be owned not by your neighbor but by a country.

[Meck77]

Ok Hotrod. We have TheDave chiming in saying his buddy works for a port and security is a joke. I've heard that many times on the news as I'm sure you have.

Everyone is getting all up in arms about the UAE buying a port yet we probably have 100 times as many ports that are American controlled and containers aren't being checked!

I guess what I'm saying is if you guys are losing sleep over this port deal I'd really focus on the big picture and worry about ALL THE PORTS that containers are slipping thru without being checked.

BTW Hotrod how could this not be a race issue? This is exactly what it is.

[Hotrod]

Ok Hotrod. We have TheDave chiming in saying his buddy works for a port and security is a joke. I've heard that many times on the news as I'm sure you have.

Everyone is getting all up in arms about the UAE buying a port yet we probably have 100 times as many ports that are American controlled and containers aren't being checked!

I guess what I'm saying is if you guys are losing sleep over this port deal I'd really focus on the big picture and worry about ALL THE PORTS that containers are slipping thru without being checked.

BTW Hotrod how could this not be a race issue? This is exactly what it is.

I would say its a 'country' issue see UAE is a country from a region of the world that keeps trying to kill us. I guess sure you could say but their Arabs but to me its not that their Arabs but a country who has had contacts at the government level with OBL and the Taliban. A country that Al queda has come out and said they have infultrated (not sure I believe them or not but it would certainly be plausable no?) The UAE would be more then able to 'fix' ship manifests to look less suspicious to ensure a better chance of the shipment not being inspected.

Your point of why would they invest all that $ just to get something into the country when they probebly could already I guess I would say that the original purchase is just that an investment. The key is who runs the ship manifests now and who runs them in two years??? Does someone eventually get the position down the road that wants to do harm to us....maybe.

Dont forget the UAE would be able to make temp visas to people on board to get off in port. What a great way to get suicide bombers into the country....its 100% certain they would get onto US soil. If you have an 'important' operative that you want to make damn sure makes it in this method is a gold mine.

I fully understand where your coming from that the whole picture sucks but I dont see the the point in knowingly making that picture worse.

[Hotrod]

I guess what I'm saying is if you guys are losing sleep over this port deal



;D If Im losing sleep its more over the idea of TO becoming a Bronco but thats just me.

[TailgateNut]

LOL nobodys touching your question because your obviously trying to twist it into a racist arguement against arabs. Problem here is them owning a home is very different then owning a port. Also your examples of "whats next" dont even match alot like apples to oranges. The Port would be owned not by your neighbor but by a country.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Meck, call it what you want, the whole deal stinks and although security regardless of port ownership is a ****ing joke, I see no GOOD reason to allow a country with very questionable ties to have control of a port located on American Soil.
I wouldn't allow a reformed burglar to clean my house and I wouldn't allow a registered sexual predator to babysit my child, would you?

[baja]

So your friend is saying we have no ****ing clue what is going on at our ports anyway.

I'm not exactly in favor of this sale to the UAE but is it really going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things? It's been reported time and time again that at our AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS hardly any of the containers are checked anyway. I just can't see the UAE risking 6 Billion bucks to sneak a bomb in thru their port when it can be snuck thru any of the other ports with a great probablity of it getting thru! Besides the UAE knows it's going to be under a microscope compared to the AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS.

I asked this question before with no response. Is the next step to not sell residential homes to Arabs? Do we start taking away their property that they already own?

Afterall a terrorist only needs a roof over their head and basic bomb building supplies to make a suicide bomb that could kill dozens of people at once! I'm sure we already have a few thousand insurgent types in our country that are just waiting for the orders to come their way. The timing probably isn't right.

Do we start shipping Arabs out of the country next?

I know I know you guys wont' want to answer my questions. They were all ignored the first time.

Just trying to bring another viewpoint to the table other than "If we sell this port to the UAE America is finished".

That's like saying since our team sucks anyway so there is no reason to draft good players and try to get better...

[baja]

Ok Hotrod. We have TheDave chiming in saying his buddy works for a port and security is a joke. I've heard that many times on the news as I'm sure you have.

Everyone is getting all up in arms about the UAE buying a port yet we probably have 100 times as many ports that are American controlled and containers aren't being checked!

I guess what I'm saying is if you guys are losing sleep over this port deal I'd really focus on the big picture and worry about ALL THE PORTS that containers are slipping thru without being checked.

BTW Hotrod how could this not be a race issue? This is exactly what it is.

Here's the "What's wrong with this picture"

If this is an o hum transaction why is it Bush is immediately willing to roll out his veto something he has not used in his 5 years in office. It's not let's look into this or ask for the 45 day review instead of the curtsy 30 day one, no, it's I will veto it even-though by his own admission he knew nothing about it until the previous days. <b> Why would Bush spend so much political capital for such a mundane transaction, Meck?

[Spider]

Problem is Meck , lot of the so called secuirty is based on the captians cargo manifest , The captian has to submit the manifest to the port authorities 24 hours before departure to the terminal he is to unload at ....See a problem yet ?
now who is the port authorities ? the people controlling the terminal of the port , you are asking us to trust a company that was involved terrorism , and where the USS Cole was bombed , to basicaly guard our front door .........and you dont see a problem ?

[Meck77]

Fellas......I'm not saying this is a great idea. Contrary to some of the belief around here I've lost alot of faith in Bush. I've seen smarter drunks at a tailgate then Bush on a good day.

I'm just trying to make the point that the entire port system is flawed and I think people are focusing too much on this particular port than taking a step back and looking at all the holes we have.

Besides..someone has to play devils advocate around here with all you Bush Haters.

I tried to make this point the other day. I really think Bush is just a pawn in the middle east problems and our strings are being pulled by our "Allies" in the middle east.

[alkemical]

well meck, to be honest how many of us knew about the port deals until this broke?

[Spider]

Fellas......I'm not saying this is a great idea. Contrary to some of the belief around here I've lost alot of faith in Bush. I've seen smarter drunks at a tailgate then Bush on a good day.

I'm just trying to make the point that the entire port system is flawed and I think people are focusing too much on this particular port than taking a step back and looking at all the holes we have.

Besides..someone has to play devils advocate around here with all you Bush Haters.

I tried to make this point the other day. I really think Bush is just a pawn in the middle east problems and our strings are being pulled by our "Allies" in the middle east.
A pawn with Veto power

[TheDave]

So your friend is saying we have no ****ing clue what is going on at our ports anyway.

I'm not exactly in favor of this sale to the UAE but is it really going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things? It's been reported time and time again that at our AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS hardly any of the containers are checked anyway. I just can't see the UAE risking 6 Billion bucks to sneak a bomb in thru their port when it can be snuck thru any of the other ports with a great probablity of it getting thru! Besides the UAE knows it's going to be under a microscope compared to the AMERICAN CONTROLLED PORTS.



Yes and no... Statistically scanning 25% gives a strong likelihood that no nukes or chemical weapons can come through. But he admits there are times of high traffic that much less is checked. The problem with the UAE running the show is that they can gaurantee it will make it through AND allow other transportation to pick it up off hours. Once that happens it's untraceable. You wouldn't know if that weapon came in through Mexico, Canada, or our Ports.

This is what i'm being told by a hardcore Republican who works in International shipping for the last 10 years. with his knowledge and lack of bias I'll take it at face value.

[baja]

Yes and no... Statistically scanning 25% gives a strong likelihood that no nukes or chemical weapons can come through. But he admits there are times of high traffic that much less is checked. The problem with the UAE running the show is that they can gaurantee it will make it through AND allow other transportation to pick it up off hours. Once that happens it's untraceable. <b> You wouldn't know if that weapon came in through Mexico, Canada, or our Ports.</b>

Give that man a B I N G O

[Atlas]

What American city do you expect to wake up one morning to read does not exist anymore and why do you chose that city as a target?

I'll say New York. They are the target.

[TailgateNut]

Fellas......I'm not saying this is a great idea. Contrary to some of the belief around here I've lost alot of faith in Bush. I've seen smarter drunks at a tailgate then Bush on a good day.

I'm just trying to make the point that the entire port system is flawed and I think people are focusing too much on this particular port than taking a step back and looking at all the holes we have.

Besides..someone has to play devils advocate around here with all you Bush Haters.

I tried to make this point the other day. I really think Bush is just a pawn in the middle east problems and our strings are being pulled by our "Allies" in the middle east.


There wouldn't be any Bush HATERS if there was something to like about the guy. My "hatred" for him started with the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" spiel. That's when I realized we have a total MORON in the White House. Hell, I wouldn't want him running a small business. Why do we allow him to be at the Helm of our country. TELL ME, and don't give me the "he was elected"! He can also be "FIRED"!

[Hotrod]

There wouldn't be any Bush HATERS if there was something to like about the guy. My "hatred" for him started with the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" spiel. That's when I realized we have a total MORON in the White House. Hell, I wouldn't want him running a small business. Why do we allow him to be at the Helm of our country. TELL ME, and don't give me the "he was elected"! He can also be "FIRED"!

Im extreamly unhappy with the job hes been doing since around 04 but come on hes certainly a likeable guy (outside of his job). Hell I think one could say he won in 04 at least partly on his like ability compared to his compitition. Hell I'd still sit down and have a cold beer with him. (insert drunken prez joke here) ;D

[TailgateNut]

Im extreamly unhappy with the job hes been doing since around 04 but come on hes certainly a likeable guy (outside of his job). Hell I think one could say he won in 04 at least partly on his like ability compared to his compitition. Hell I'd still sit down and have a cold beer with him. (insert drunken prez joke here) ;D

You've got to be kidding. Just watching him on the tube, regardless of the issue, makes me want to BARF. I guess he would be like the ugly girl at the girls night out party!

[alkemical]

A pawn with Veto power


a dirty game of chess?

[TailgateNut]

a dirty game of chess?

Usually people who play chess have a plan!

[alkemical]

Usually people who play chess have a plan!



Even bad ones :)