Where would u draft vince young?

[yavoon]

I just can't imagine putting him in charge of an offense.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I would draft him right after Jay Cutler if he completed the Hooked on Phonics prgram

[watermock]

Maybe they put the wrong test on his wrist...I think you could score better just choosing B or D in a line all the way down would of scored better IMO...

Who knows...he won't be a Bronco.

[SoCalBronco]

You dont need to have book intelligence to have football intelligence. Understanding coverages is totally different than things like adding, multiplying, doing deductive or inductive reasoning.

Now Vince needs work on his mechanics and accuracy but thats not really related to this kind of stuff. As far as football concepts go, I dont think its a problem. He has already shown that he is capable at adjusting pre-snap to what the defense is doing. Texas, like Utah, UNLV, Bowling Green, Florida etc. run that shotgun spread option type of offense, where you have to read how the defense aligns presnap. He had to make those checks when there were 7 in the box, 6 in the box or 5 in the box, to bubble screens, keep the run play as called, check to the quick game when there is a 2 by 2 relationship with the recievers and DBs on a side etc. So he can audible based on seeing how the defenses align. That has little to do with basic logic, reasoning etc. And he demonstrated he can execute the traditional 2 and 3 man passing concepts used in all of football. So this whole wonderlic thing doesnt really bother me alot.

I would still rank him in the 2-5 range.

[yavoon]

You dont need to have book intelligence to have football intelligence. Understanding coverages is totally different than things like adding, multiplying, doing deductive or inductive reasoning.

Now Vince needs work on his mechanics and accuracy but thats not really related to this kind of stuff. As far as football concepts go, I dont think its a problem. He has already shown that he is capable at adjusting pre-snap to what the defense is doing. Texas, like Utah, UNLV, Bowling Green, Florida etc. run that shotgun spread option type of offense, where you have to read how the defense aligns presnap. He had to make those checks when there were 7 in the box, 6 in the box or 5 in the box, to bubble screens, keep the run play as called, check to the quick game when there is a 2 by 2 relationship with the recievers and DBs on a side etc. So he can audible based on seeing how the defenses align. That has little to do with basic logic, reasoning etc. And he demonstrated he can execute the traditional 2 and 3 man passing concepts used in all of football. So this whole wonderlic thing doesnt really bother me alot.

I would still rank him in the 2-5 range.

just to show how historically awful this is:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2005/Wonderlic.htm#qb

and the amount of intelligence that vince's texas offense took didnt impress me. what happens when they want to install a lot of plays week to week or in the playoffs? does he have any chance of learning them? does he have any chance of handling a team like pitt or NE, will he ever be effective audibling?

a 6 would make him the "dumbest" person in the draft and one of the dumbest in probably recent memory. I mean DAMN.

[SoCalBronco]

just to show how historically awful this is:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2005/Wonderlic.htm#qb

and the amount of intelligence that vince's texas offense took didnt impress me. what happens when they want to install a lot of plays week to week or in the playoffs? does he have any chance of learning them? does he have any chance of handling a team like pitt or NE, will he ever be effective audibling?

a 6 would make him the "dumbest" person in the draft and one of the dumbest in probably recent memory. I mean DAMN.

Frank Gore scored a 7 last year, with a documented learning disability and had no problem learning (and succeeding) in SFs offense. Regarding learning "new" plays week to week, there is very little that is "new" about the NFL. Especially in the passing game. Everything is based on the core passing concepts that everyone uses, just a little variation here or there or a combination of concepts. Obviously NFL offenses are more voluminous than college offenses, with more variations of the basic passing concepts, but in part thats because they have more time to install. In the NCAA, there is the 20 hour rule. In the NFL, you can stay in the classroom for hours and then go out on the field for hours. There are very few limits in the regular season. And in the offseason, you have OTAs, mini camps, training camp, whereas in college ball you only have spring camp and after that coaches are not permitted to attend anything. So yes, it will be more voluminous but there will also be alot more time for him to learn. His problem at Texas wasnt "learning" the system, it was just his mechanics and accuracy. That obviously isnt tied to intelligence.

I think you discount the intelligence needed to run a Gun Option type of offense. Its hard because it combines skills and techniques required for two different offenses, the spread shotgun, where you have to learn the uncovered rules, and all the passing game route combinations, the audibles vs. certain people in the box and how the DBs align on a particular side vs. a set of recievers (2 over 2, 3 over 2, 1.5 over 2, 2.5 over 2). And then you gotta learn the basic skills and techniques needed for the option game. You gotta read defensive ends, you gotta understand fronts, you have to learn how to maintain the pitch relationship, you have to learn your read keys and pitch keys. This isnt an easy offense. But he mastered it. Its a combination of two powerful offenses and he learned all of it.

[yavoon]

Frank Gore scored a 7 last year, with a documented learning disability and had no problem learning (and succeeding) in SFs offense. Regarding learning "new" plays week to week, there is very little that is "new" about the NFL. Especially in the passing game. Everything is based on the core passing concepts that everyone uses, just a little variation here or there or a combination of concepts. His problem at Texas wasnt "learning" the system, it was just his mechanics and accuracy. That obviously isnt tied to intelligence.

I think you discount the intelligence needed to run a Gun Option type of offense. Its hard because it combines skills and techniques required for two different offenses, the spread shotgun, where you have to learn the uncovered rules, and all the passing game route combinations, the audibles vs. certain people in the box and how the DBs align on a particular side vs. a set of recievers (2 over 2, 3 over 2, 1.5 over 2, 2.5 over 2). And then you gotta learn the basic skills and techniques needed for the option game. You gotta read defensive ends, you gotta understand fronts, you have to learn how to maintain the pitch relationship, you have to learn your read keys and pitch keys. This isnt an easy offense. But he mastered it. Its a combination of two powerful offenses and he learned all of it.

rb's are some of the lower scorers, look at the qbs. at texas I agree he ran an offense w/ "reads" but it inherently didnt change much. in the nfl new plays are installed all the time, especially in the more potent offenses.

its all good to have ur backup rb who is in what? 7 snaps a game? be a little dumb. but ur starting franchise qb, be DUMBER than the dumbest players in the entire draft. I mean u have any idea how dumb some of those guys simply must be? and vince is dumber!

[SoCalBronco]

rb's are some of the lower scorers, look at the qbs. at texas I agree he ran an offense w/ "reads" but it inherently didnt change much. in the nfl new plays are installed all the time, especially in the more potent offenses.

its all good to have ur backup rb who is in what? 7 snaps a game? be a little dumb. but ur starting franchise qb, be DUMBER than the dumbest players in the entire draft. I mean u have any idea how dumb some of those guys simply must be? and vince is dumber!

Yavoon, we dont care how "Dumb" they are in terms of basic reasoning, logic, multiplication etc. Thats not the skills we are looking for when we are talking about football intelligence. What determines whether you are "dumb" for football purposes is things like identifying fronts, reading coverages, making decisions as you dropback based on your read. Thats all we care about. We have not established that there is a strong nexus between low wonderlics and QBs who are not successful. It might help a little to be generally smart there may be some benefit, but I dont think its anywhere near a proxy for football intelligence.

[yavoon]

Yavoon, we dont care how "Dumb" they are in terms of basic reasoning, logic, multiplication etc. Thats not the skills we are looking for when we are talking about football intelligence. What determines whether you are "dumb" for football purposes is things like identifying fronts, reading coverages, making decisions as you dropback based on your read. Thats all we care about. We have not established that there is a strong nexus between low wonderlics and QBs who are not successful. It might help a little to be generally smart there may be some benefit, but I dont think its anywhere near a proxy for football intelligence.

I think there is a correlation between wonderlic and qbs who perform well in areas one might think require intelligence. course if they aren't as physically gifted it dont matter, football is physical first afterall.

I have my doubts about drafting possibly the dumbest person in the entire draft to be a qb:(. also vick(who has admitted, and frankly pretty obviously has problems w/ nfl offenses) got a 20. which is low for a qb, but I mean compared to a 6 he's a friggin genius.

if he can retake it and do better I'd feel better, but if 6 is how smart he is then thats just too much IMO:(

[Bronco LB 59]

Can we wait for a more credible source to confirm the Wonderlic score before throwing Vince Young under the bus?

Pro Football Talk is the present day equivalent of Fred Edelstein's Pro Football Insider and that dirtbag did time in prison!

[ludo21]

Can we wait for a more credible source to confirm the Wonderlic score before throwing Vince Young under the bus?

Pro Football Talk is the present day equivalent of Fred Edelstein's Pro Football Insider and that dirtbag did time in prison!


Ha!

I say he goes 2-5. A ton of talent (NFL teams love that) and guy has heart. A good arm, accuracy is pretty good short, he can work on deep stuff still.

[yavoon]

Can we wait for a more credible source to confirm the Wonderlic score before throwing Vince Young under the bus?

Pro Football Talk is the present day equivalent of Fred Edelstein's Pro Football Insider and that dirtbag did time in prison!

then assume he got a six, where would u draft him then?

[Arkansas Bronco]

He will prolly go @ least top 10 although i am not sold on him and it has nothing to do with his test score.

[SPORTSWRITER]

Frank Gore scored a 7 last year, with a documented learning disability and had no problem learning.............

Are you sure that wasn't AL Gore?? ;D