Civil War Breaking Out In Iraq?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Looks like it. If it doesn't happen now it's only a matter of time IMO.

---------------------------------------------------------
Mosque Attack Pushes Iraq Toward Civil War
By ZIAD KHALAF, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago

SAMARRA, Iraq - Insurgents posing as police destroyed the golden dome of one of Iraq's holiest Shiite shrines Wednesday, setting off an unprecendented spasm of sectarian violence. Angry crowds thronged the streets, militiamen attacked Sunni mosques, and at least 19 people were killed.

With the gleaming dome of the 1,200-year-old Askariya shrine reduced to rubble, some Shiites lashed out at the United States as partly to blame.

The violence — many of the 90 attacks on Sunni mosques were carried out by Shiite militias — seemed to push Iraq closer to all-out civil war than at any point in the three years since the U.S.-led overthrow of
Saddam Hussein.

Many leaders called for calm. "We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq's unity," said President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd. "We should all stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of a civil war."

President Bush pledged American help to restore the mosque after the bombing north of Baghdad, which dealt a severe blow to U.S. efforts to keep Iraq from falling deeper into sectarian violence.

"The terrorists in Iraq have again proven that they are enemies of all faiths and of all humanity," Bush said. "The world must stand united against them, and steadfast behind the people of Iraq."

British Prime Minister
Tony Blair also condemned the bombing and pledged funds toward the shrine's reconstruction.

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and the top American commander in Iraq, Gen. George Casey, called the attack a deliberate attempt to foment sectarian strife and warned it was a "critical moment for Iraq."

No one was reported injured in the bombing of the shrine in Samarra.

But at least 19 people, including three Sunni clerics, were killed in the reprisal attacks that followed, mainly in Baghdad and predominantly Shiite provinces to the south, according to the Iraqi Islamic Party, the country's largest Sunni political group.

Many of the attacks appeared to have been carried out by Shiite militias that the United States wants to see disbanded.

In predominantly Shiite Basra, police said militiamen broke into a prison, hauled out 12 inmates, including two Egyptians, two Tunisians, a Libyan, a Saudi and a Turk, and shot them dead in reprisal for the shrine attack.

Major Sunni groups joined in condemning the attack, and a leading Sunni politician, Tariq al-Hashimi, urged clerics and politicians to calm the situation "before it spins out of control."

The country's top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, sent instructions to his followers forbidding attacks on Sunni mosques, and called for seven days of mourning.

But he hinted, as did Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi, that religious militias could be given a bigger security role if the government cannot protecting holy shrines — an ominous sign of the Shiite reaction ahead.

Both Sunnis and the United States fear the rise of such militias, which the disaffected minority views as little more than death squads. American commanders believe they undercut efforts to create a professional Iraqi army and police force — a key step toward the eventual drawdown of U.S. forces.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/ll5zv

[Hotrod]

Even thou they are scum the two groups at work in Iraq Alpuka and the Saddam loyalists are not exactly stupid. They know if they can get the Shiites and Sunnis into a cival war then it puts us in a bad bad situation. Id say if an all out civil war breaks out in Iraq all will be lost.

[Hogan11]

Civil war in Iraq? Bank on it.....the sects have been at each others throats since the very beginning. That's not going to change just because we are there or because they're trying to figure out a system of democracy that's totally alien to them.

I have absolutely no faith in the Iraq becoming a peaceful, democratic nation...none at all. A civil war, IMO, is only a matter of time.

[Rigs11]

So let me get this straight, we've lost almost 2,500 soldiers, thousands more maimed,thousands of iraqis dead, 200 billion of our money spent, terrorists flocking to Iraq, all for a civil war. Bravo Bush....

[Garcia Bronco]

I would expect Iraq will become several small nations

[Garcia Bronco]

So let me get this straight, we've lost almost 2,500 soldiers, thousands more maimed,thousands of iraqis dead, 200 billion of our money spent, terrorists flocking to Iraq, all for a civil war. Bravo Bush....
Guess where they're not.

[Rigs11]

Guess where they're not.
Guess where they weren't?

[Garcia Bronco]

Guess where they weren't?


Where?

[Rigs11]

Where?
Iraq genius.

[Jesterhole]

I just hope the people who support Bush, and who re-elected him are happy. I mean, there are NO gay people getting married...

[Hogan11]

So let me get this straight, we've lost almost 2,500 soldiers, thousands more maimed,thousands of iraqis dead, 200 billion of our money spent, terrorists flocking to Iraq, all for a civil war. Bravo Bush....

We didn't even get any cheap oil out of the deal....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

We didn't even get any cheap oil out of the deal....
I don't think we even got any expensive oil out of them.


Anyone remember this?

----------------------------------------
WASHINGTON - For the first time in public, a somber Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld raised the possibility yesterday that the U.S. mission in Iraq could fail. (http://tinyurl.com/lp4yd)

[Garcia Bronco]

Iraq genius.

Oh yes they were.

[Garcia Bronco]

I just hope the people who support Bush, and who re-elected him are happy. I mean, there are NO gay people getting married...


People did not vote for Bush because of gay people getting married. That's just stupid.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

People did not vote for Bush because of gay people getting married. That's just stupid.
Millions did in the hope he would try and change the constitution like he promised he would.

[Garcia Bronco]

Millions did in the hope he would try and change the constitution like he promised he would.

No they didn't. At the end of the day..John Kerry had no plan...no planks...and no platform other than he wasn't the President....and he's still not the President...nor will he ever be.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No they didn't. At the end of the day..John Kerry had no plan...no planks...and no platform other than he wasn't the President....and he's still not the President...nor will he ever be.
You don't know the "peoples" very well. :thumbs:

[Rigs11]

Oh yes they were.
Says who? Bush?

[baja]

Civil war in Iraq? Bank on it.....the sects have been at each others throats since the very beginning. That's not going to change just because we are there or because they're trying to figure out a system of democracy that's totally alien to them.

I have absolutely no faith in the Iraq becoming a peaceful, democratic nation...none at all. A civil war, IMO, is only a matter of time.

This progression of events (Civil War) was predicted by myself and a few other posters back on the old DPO, even average citizens such as ourselves could see this coming. We reasoned that the power vacuum resulting from the US take over along with Bush's lack of exit plan and resulting confusion would set the table for these sects, that had hated one an another since the beginning of time, to boil over into civil war. Here we are on the threshold of war, not surprised.

The day will come when we will tuck tail and run leaving a blood bath unfolding in the rear view mirror.

What a colossal fuuck up

[baja]

People did not vote for Bush because of gay people getting married. That's just stupid.

Studies have shown it is this very issue (gay marriage) that won Bush the election.

BTW Heard anything about gay marriages from George post election?

Where has his outrage gone now that he won.

Where is that constitutional amendment he promised to the religious right he enraged.

[Garcia Bronco]

Studies have shown it is this very issue (gay marriage) that won Bush the election.

BTW Heard anything about gay marriages from George post election?

Where has his outrage gone now that he won.

Where is that constitutional amendment he promised to the religious right he enraged.

Studies also showed that Kerry was winning the election during election day....millions didn't go to the polls thinking I'm gonna stick it to the gay people. Believe that if you want. Studies show things all the time...to bad these studies are flawed with confounding variables.

[baja]

Studies also showed that Kerry was winning the election during election day....millions didn't go to the polls thinking I'm gonna stick it to the gay people. Believe that if you want. Studies show things all the time...to bad these studies are flawed with confounding variables.

Your worng on this one but OK what about the other two questions?

Where did Bush's outrage go.

[Garcia Bronco]

Your worng on this one but OK what about the other two questions?

Where did Bush's outrage go.


Nobody that matters care about gay people and what the do...they're a tiny subset of the population...but okay...let's have fun...break out the study...I want to see their, whomever, research methods on these "studies".

[baja]

Nobody that matters care about gay people and what the do...they're a tiny subset of the population

That's not what your boy George said pre election as a matter of a fact he deemed it so important that he promised to but forth a proposal to <b>amend the constitution</b> to outlaw gay marrages.

Or have you forgotten about that?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That's not what your boy George said pre election as a matter of a fact he deemed it so important that he promised to but forth a proposal to ,b.amend the constitution</b> to outlaw gay marrages.

Or have you forgotten about that?
Of course he's forgotten that. You have to have a short memory to support Bush. He's also forgotten that Bush's base considers gay marriage as important of an issue as war.

President Calls for Constitutional Amendment Protecting Marriage
http://tinyurl.com/4w4rp

Bush calls for ban on same-sex marriages
Democrats: President using amendment issue for re-election bid
http://tinyurl.com/6btry

Proposed amendment

The amendment was written by the Alliance for Marriage, an organization founded by Matt Daniels, with the assistance of Judge Robert Bork and other constitutional conservatives. It was originally proposed by Rep. Marilyn Musgrave in 2002 and consisted of two clauses (as discussed below, Ms. Musgrave introduced a new version in March 2004 modifying the second sentence):

1. Marriage in the United States of America shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman.
2. Neither this constitution or the constitution of any state, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups.

The first sentence would have provided an official definition of legal marriage in the United States. Proponents claimed that this was a reasonable measure, based on established custom, which defended the family and the institution of marriage. To others, it was an unfair means of excluding same-sex couples from receiving benefits from that institution.

The second sentence went further by restricting how the courts are allowed to interpret federal and state anti-discrimination laws and constitutional amendments with regard to equal protection of non-married couples, regardless of sexual orientation. State laws would include local city and county ordinances, codes and regulations.

The legal consensus is that the FMA as originally proposed would have barred state courts from requiring local governments to allow same-sex partners marriage or domestic partnership, or civil union status ("the legal incidents thereof"). This might have prohibited any court from ordering that equal civil rights be granted among homosexual couples, such as these spousal exemptions and benefits:

* Joint parenting, adoption; custody, and child visitation rights
* Next-of-kin "status" for hospital visitation and medical decisions
* Joint insurance policies
* Separation and divorce protections
* Immigration and residency exemptions/benefits
* Tax benefits
* Legal benefits
* Veteran’s benefits
* Inheritance benefits
* Joint filing of official documents (tax returns, customs claims, etc.)
* Death benefits
* Crime victim recovery benefits
* Tort benefits
* Domestic violence relief (restraining and protection orders)
* Judicial protection, including immunity from testifying against one's partner
http://tinyurl.com/6nocv

[Garcia Bronco]

I don't recall Congress proposing an amendment of any kind...The President did say that any bill allowing gay marriage would meet his veto. There are bigots out there for sure...with every kind of hate imaginable...but millions of Americans didn't go to the polls with the intent on stivking it to gay folks. Or rather...it's not what won the election for President George Bush. What won the election for George Bush was weak opposition.

[Garcia Bronco]

That's not what your boy George said pre election as a matter of a fact he deemed it so important that he promised to but forth a proposal to ,b.amend the constitution</b> to outlaw gay marrages.

Or have you forgotten about that?


I never heard him say it once...and frankly...I don't give a ****. I don't care if gay men and women can get "married". Government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all IMO.

[baja]

I never heard him say it once...and frankly...I don't give a ****. I don't care if gay men and women can get "married". Government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all IMO.

President Calls for Constitutional Amendment Protecting Marriage

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/02/20040224-2.html

The point is Bush made gay marriage a big deal and that got him elected. It is not the issue rather or not you care.

Can you follow an argument for more than a couple of posts? So far there is no evidence that you have that capability

[baja]

I don't recall Congress proposing an amendment of any kind...The President did say that any bill allowing gay marriage would meet his veto. There are bigots out there for sure...with every kind of hate imaginable...but millions of Americans didn't go to the polls with the intent on stivking it to gay folks. Or rather...it's not what won the election for President George Bush. What won the election for George Bush was weak opposition.

The congress did not propose it Bush promised to initiate it as a campaign promise and it got him enough votes to push him over the top and win the election

You support the anti gay marriage president

[baja]

<b>Bush calls for gay-marriage amendment</b>
President reassures religious conservatives at Baptist meeting

President Bush addresses the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting via satellite on Tuesday, praising membersfor their strong family values.


Alex Johnson
Reporter
• Profile
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Reviving a major plank of his re-election campaign, President Bush called for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage Tuesday.

The president’s address to the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention — the fourth year in a row he has spoken to the conservative evangelical gathering — was crafted to rally the social religious conservatives who make up a crucial part of Bush’s governing coalition. He restated his commitment to issues dear to conservatives’ hearts, notably his opposition to same-sex marriage, abortion and research on human embryonic stem cells — a stance he calls the “culture of life.”

“We will continue to build a culture of life in America, and America will be better off for it,” Bush said by satellite hookup from the White House.

Bush’s remarks were similar to those he made last year, when he said he would work to uphold marriage as he sought to solidify his religious conservative base ahead of the November election. He thanked the 11,077 “messengers” who made the trek to Nashville this year for defending “the values that carry a moral society, for ... defending the family and the sacred institution of marriage.”

But the message has extra resonance this year. The president’s ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cell research is being challenged in Congress, even by some in his own Republican Party, and the likelihood of Chief Justice William Rehnquist’s imminent retirement promises a free-swinging ideological battle in the Senate.

Carefully worded appeal
In a nod to polling data that suggest Americans strongly support embryonic stem cell research, Bush sought to focus the debate on theoretical pitfalls should such science be perfected. Not once did he use the words “stem cell” or “embryos.”

Instead, the president cast his position as standing in the way of “cloning” — which some scientists say could be a realistic result of the research — and “the creation of life only to destroy it.”

The Southern Baptist Convention strongly condemns homosexuality, and the president’s remarks were greeted with sustained applause. Gay rights activists were organizing a rally for Wednesday morning at the Nashville Public Library to protest the convention's preaching on gays and lesbians.

Bush’s speech was also in keeping with the tone of urgency suffusing the conference, where the Rev. Bobby Welch, president of the convention, has challenged church leaders to renew their commitment to social engagement and evangelism, which Welch said was a critical test of the church’s credibility.

Bush echoed that call, sounding themes in a recent declaration by the National Association of Evangelicals urging more attention to poverty, homelessness and economic disruption.

“We must help the poor, the sick and those who hurt,” he said.

Although a sizable minority of evangelical Christians — estimated at 20 percent to 40 percent — say they are politically moderate or Democratic, the SBC has been led by socially conservative leaders since they engineered a takeover of the nation’s largest non-Catholic denomination in 1979. At one point during a floor debate Tuesday, Welch had to remind messengers to remain civil.

[Garcia Bronco]

it got him enough votes to push him over the top and win the election



Okay Prove it. Will you interviewing every voter? Further more....what's the "percentage"?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ah, Bush says we'll pay for the destroyed dome now. Great!

-------------------------------------------------------------
Many leaders called for calm. "We are facing a major conspiracy that is targeting Iraq's unity," said President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd. "We should all stand hand in hand to prevent the danger of a civil war."

President Bush pledged American help to restore the mosque after the bombing north of Baghdad, which dealt a severe blow to U.S. efforts to keep Iraq from falling deeper into sectarian violence.
http://tinyurl.com/h4sxf

[Garcia Bronco]

Ah, Bush says we'll pay for the destroyed dome now. Great!

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/h4sxf

What's the problem with that?

[baja]

Okay Prove it. Will you interviewing every voter? Further more....what's the "percentage"?

here ya go...

GAY MARRIAGE: Did issue help re-elect Bush?
Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau
Thursday, November 4, 2004


Printable Version
Email This Article
Election 2004
President
Bush sketches term-two agenda: pressing anti-terror war, seeking tax overhaul, SS changes (11/4)


Washington -- San Francisco did not vote for President Bush, but the pictures of wedded gay and lesbian couples streaming from its City Hall last February may have helped return him to the White House.

Those pictures and a Massachusetts court decision to allow same-sex marriage proved to be, if not political poison for Democratic challenger John Kerry, not exactly a tonic, either.

The lesbian and gay community awoke Wednesday morning to a bitter landscape: Bush, who supports a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, re- elected (with a fifth of the gay vote); four new Republican senators, including staunch social conservative Tom Coburn in Oklahoma; the prospect of conservatives filling potential Supreme Court vacancies; and to top it off, 11 state constitutional bans on same-sex marriage.

The state marriage bans passed overwhelmingly everywhere they were on the ballot, including, critically, Ohio, which narrowly handed Bush his victory.

Gay and lesbian leaders faced a sober rethinking of their strategy -- which some said must include reaching out to churches and red-state voters who gave Republicans their sweep of the House, Senate and White House.

Some, however, fiercely denied that their drive for marriage equality contributed to Kerry's narrow loss. The Massachusetts senator opposed a federal constitutional ban.

"There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that gay marriage tipped the scale in any state," said Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Others -- from California Sen. Dianne Feinstein to leaders of the Christian right to outside analysts -- disagreed.

Meeting with reporters outside her San Francisco home Wednesday afternoon, Feinstein was asked whether Mayor Gavin Newsom's issuance of marriage licenses -- which Bush cited as a factor in his decision to support a federal constitutional ban -- had caused a problem for Democrats.

"I believe it did energize a very conservative vote," Feinstein said. "It gave them a position to rally around. The whole issue has been too much, too fast, too soon.''

Several gay leaders insisted, however, that the marriage measures were mostly in states Bush was expected to carry anyway. Even Ohio's measure, they insist, did not hurt Kerry.

They also defended their legal drive for marriage rights, which won a historic victory with the Goodridge decision in Massachusetts last November that ushered in the nation's first same-sex marriages last spring and triggered a national storm over gay and lesbian unions in the middle of a presidential campaign.

"It's hard for me to say Goodridge tipped everything when these folks were making anti-gay law a centerpiece of their strategy since 1996," said Mary Bonauto, the lawyer for the Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders who won the case.

Bonauto said that by the time Goodridge was decided, 37 states already had "defense of marriage" statutes on the books, and a constitutional ban had already been introduced in Congress.

"I believe these people would have been out there for Bush in any event," Bonauto said. "He had four years to show he speaks a particular faith code that other people understand. They were going to turn out for him, and they did -- marriage notwithstanding."

But Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said the issue won Bush the election.

"It was these value voters who ushered the president down the aisle for a second term," Perkins said, citing polls showing moral values trumped war, terrorism and the economy as the key issue for many voters.

Same-sex marriage "was the great iceberg," said Robert Knight, director of the Culture & Family Institute, an affiliate of Concerned Women of America. "A lot of analysts saw the tip but didn't understand the power of the mass underneath. It galvanized millions of Christians to turn out and vote, and George Bush and the GOP got the lion's share of that vote."

Knight cited "massive efforts" by religious groups in Ohio "to rally pastors and to get Christians out of the pews and into the voting booths."

Some gay leaders agreed. "I think it's pretty clear that (Bush political czar) Karl Rove's strategy of using gay and lesbian families as wedge issues in this election worked," said Christopher Barron, political director of the Log Cabin Republicans, who refused to endorse Bush. "It's hard to argue with results."

Foreman, however, pointed to Kerry's vote gains in Ohio, Michigan and Oregon, all of which had the same-sex ballot measures, over Democrat Al Gore's tallies in the 2000 race as proof the measures did not contribute to Kerry's defeat.

"It was not what won Florida for Bush," Foreman said. "It was not on the table in New Mexico, it was not on the table in Nevada."

Knight insisted that the marriage issue tapped "a larger perception that the GOP represents the moral order." Although the candidates debated other moral issues as well, from stem cell research to late-term abortion, "normally one issue comes to symbolize that great cultural divide, and marriage is that issue," he said. "The Democrats, to recover, are going to have to leave Castro Street and return to Main Street or they will be hopelessly out of touch for the foreseeable future."

Nathan Persily, a University of Pennsylvania professor of law and politics, agreed that same-sex marriage became a proxy for the larger moral issues that so moved voters.

"John Kerry realized very late in the game that his persona as a secular Northeasterner was something that many Americans found foreign to them," he said, noting Kerry's declarations of his Catholic faith and speeches from Florida pulpits two Sundays before the election.

At a press conference, Newsom expressed little patience for the suggestion that GOP victories and state amendments were related to his decision to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.

"If you listened to the president," he said, "it was the activist judges who had the audacity to interpret the Constitution appropriately and say it's wrong to deny equal protection to all people.

"Why aren't the blogs talking about Schwarzenegger and his popularity at the convention? Why aren't they talking about (the governor) going out to Ohio a couple days ago? Why aren't they talking about the bin Laden tapes?

"I'd like to think I'm that influential. I hardly think I was," Newsom said.

Cheryl Jacques, executive director of the Human Rights Campaign, borrowed, perhaps not coincidentally, the moral values rhetoric of an earlier civil rights movement to defend the drive for marriage equality while conceding its difficulty.

"As Martin Luther King wrote in his 'Letters from a Birmingham Jail,' '' Jacques said, "there is no convenient time to ask those who oppose equality to think more kindly about it."

[DBruleU]

Ah, Bush says we'll pay for the destroyed dome now. Great!

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/h4sxf

What is wrong with that? Blair said he would pitch in as well. It wont be all us.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What is wrong with that? Blair said he would pitch in as well. It wont be all us.
What is wrong with that? How about you pay my share then?

[DBruleU]

What is wrong with that? How about you pay my share then?

How much are we talking about?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

How much are we talking about?
Looks like 2 trillion so far.

[Garcia Bronco]

here ya go...

."

I didn't see a statistical study based on empirical data supporting your claim...because there isn't one. Like I said..believe what you wish...I did notice your article did say basically what I said...Kerry was weak opposition..he didn't translate to the American people and he's platform of..."I'm not the President" turned out to be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[baja]

Okay Prove it. Will you interviewing every voter? Further more...what's the "percentage"?

Every time you say prove it I have done just that, your response is to not acknowledge the proof rather you go on to the next point and ask for proof of that, no wonder you like Bush your just like him.

I ask you again, where is the outrage Bush expressed pre election

Where is the promised amendment? And it does not matter that you think it trivial many people voted for him for that promise he got them worked up about.

[baja]

I didn't see a statistical study based on empirical data supporting your claim...because there isn't one. Like I said..believe what you wish...I did notice your article did say basically what I said...Kerry was weak opposition..he didn't translate to the American people and he's platform of..."I'm not the President" turned out to be a self fulfilling prophecy.

goggle this

amandament gay marrage bush

[Hogan11]

Ah, Bush says we'll pay for the destroyed dome now. Great!

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/h4sxf

Sure we'll pay for the damn Dome...we'll pay for everything and it won't make a bit of difference....everyone knows this.

As far as the gay marriage thing goes...nothing motivates and strikes fear in the GOP base like a homosexual issue.....it's a proven conservative "turn out to vote" boogey issue. It's no different than say the flag burning amendment to get the juices flowing, the anger building and the base a marching all the way to the polls....it gets the votes, but no amendments will ever come of it all because they need these emotional issues when it's not a blowout election situation.

[baja]

Ah, Bush says we'll pay for the destroyed dome now. Great!

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/h4sxf

I have no problem with that. There's going to be a lot more bombings though, where does it end?

[DBruleU]

Looks like 2 trillion so far.

Alright, do you accept paypal?

[Garcia Bronco]

Every time you say prove it I have done just that, your response is to not acknowledge the proof rather you go on to the next point and ask for proof of that, no wonder you like Bush your just like him.

I ask you again, where is the outrage Bush expressed pre election

Where is the promised amendment? And it does not matter that you think it trivial many people voted for him for that promise he got them worked up about.

I asked you to prove your claim that a study showed that the gay marriage issue won the election. If you're refering to the amendment point...if you look at my post...you'll see I posted "I never heard him say it" meaning he might have said it...I didn't hear it. And further more...I don't care.

[baja]

Sure we'll pay for the damn Dome...we'll pay for everything and it won't make a bit of difference...everyone knows this.

As far as the gay marriage thing goes...nothing motivates and strikes fear in the GOP base like a homosexual issue.....it's a proven conservative "turn out to vote" boogey issue. It's no different than say the flag burning amendment to get the juices flowing, the anger building and the base a marching all the way to the polls....it gets the votes, but no amendments will ever come of it all because they need these emotional issues when it's not a blowout election situation.


Well said and absolutily true. :thanku:

[Garcia Bronco]

Sure we'll pay for the damn Dome...we'll pay for everything and it won't make a bit of difference....everyone knows this.

As far as the gay marriage thing goes...nothing motivates and strikes fear in the GOP base like a homosexual issue.....it's a proven conservative "turn out to vote" boogey issue. It's no different than say the flag burning amendment to get the juices flowing, the anger building and the base a marching all the way to the polls....it gets the votes, but no amendments will ever come of it all because they need these emotional issues when it's not a blowout election situation.

How is it a proven conservative boogey issue...do you have any proof?

[baja]

I asked you to prove your claim that a study showed that the gay marriage issue won the election. If you're refering to the amendment point...if you look at my post...you'll see I posted "I never heard him say it" meaning he might have said it...I didn't hear it. And further more...I don't care.

Come on garcia don't ask me to chase around the internet to find things just because you "never heard of it" do your own research if you want to have an informed discussion.

[Hogan11]

How is it a proven conservative boogey issue...do you have any proof?

C'mon...do you really have to ask such questions?

[Garcia Bronco]

C'mon...do you really have to ask such questions?
Yeah...I do...prove it

[baja]

How is it a proven conservative boogey issue...do you have any proof?

You remind me of my nephew, he'll ask me something and I'll explain it and he'll say why and why and then why..... why why why :)

[Garcia Bronco]

Come on garcia don't ask me to chase around the internet to find things just because you "never heard of it" do your own research if you want to have an informed discussion.

I say this again so you can hear it all the way down their...I don't care about an amendment...unless it was actually proposed...whiskey tango foxtrot.

Prove your claim that the election was won by Bush on the gay marriage issue. You said it's what won him the election...where is the empirical data to support your claim?

You don't have any and you never did. It's a side effect of Sad Little Man's disease after the election by the depressed jaded voters that didn't get their way.

[Spider]

bout damn time this happened ... now the bullseye is off our troops , the insurgency will have their hands full .......... we realy needed this ...... we should encourage this ...........

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Gunmen Kill 47 Iraqi Factory Workers
BAQOUBA, Iraq - Gunmen pulled factory workers off buses northeast of Baghdad and killed 47 of them, a provincial council member said.

The victims were traveling in three buses when they were stopped at a checkpoint in the Nahrawan area, about 12 miles south of Baqouba, said Dhari Thuban, a member of the Diyala Provincial Council. The buses were burned and their passengers killed, he said.

The motive for the killing was not immediately clear.

Residents told police that the bullet-riddled bodies were found around midday behind a brick factory, the Interior Ministry said.

The victims, who ranged in age between about 20 and 50, were dressed in civilian clothes and their deaths appeared recent, the ministry's Maj. Falah al-Mohamadawi told the Associated Press.

Thuban said the victims were brick factory workers, but al-Mohamadawi said no identification documents were found on them.
http://tinyurl.com/mj4ul

bout damn time this happened ... now the bullseye is off our troops , the insurgency will have their hands full .......... we realy needed this ...... we should encourage this ...........
Just the opposite really. Bush said Americans will be deployed to shrines across the country to protect them.
In fact, this is what I and many others thought would happen when this whole farce was perpetrated on us in the beginning.

Sh*ites are forming armed militias to attack sunnis and sunnis are uniting to defend themselves and attack sh*ites. We are caught in the middle and will have to send in more troops and stay longer under Bush's plan of "spreading democracy".

[baja]

bout damn time this happened ... now the bullseye is off our troops , the insurgency will have their hands full .......... we realy needed this ...... we should encourage this ...........

Encourage civil war?

In a country that we are spending 2 Trillion dollars to create a show case Middle East democracy.

This is not what is meant by exit strategy but will end up being the cause of US departing Iraq

[Bronco_Beerslug]

A major Sunni Arab bloc Thursday suspended talks with Shiite and Kurdish parties on a new government after scores of Sunni mosques were attacked and dozens of bodies found in a wave of reprisal violence following the bombing of a revered Shiite shrine.

-------------------------------------------------------
By ALEXANDRA ZAVIS, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A major Sunni Arab bloc Thursday suspended talks with Shiite and Kurdish parties on a new government after scores of Sunni mosques were attacked and dozens of bodies found in a wave of reprisal violence following the bombing of a revered Shiite shrine.

Violence continued Thursday with an attack on a Sunni mosque in Baqouba, where eight Iraqi soldiers were killed in a bombing and nearly a dozen people were wounded.

Faced with the grim prospect of sectarian war, the government extended the curfew in Baghdad and Salaheddin province for two days in the wake of Wednesday's attack on the Askariya shrine in Samarra. All leaves for Iraqi soldiers and police were canceled and personnel were ordered to report to their units.

Radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr slammed the Iraqi government and U.S. forces for not protecting the Samarra shrine, also known as the Golden Mosque, and ordered his militia to defend Shiite holy sites across
Iraq.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060223/capt.bag11602231120.iraq_bag116.jpg?x=206&y=345&sig=nwaWifuczmBLBNBIENGGsw--
Iraqi soldiers inspect the scene following an explosion in Baqouba, Iraq, Thursday, Feb. 23, 2006. A bomb exploded Thursday in this city northeast of Baghdad, killing eight Iraqi soldiers, the Iraqi military said. (AP Photo/Mohammed Adnan)

"If the government had real sovereignty, then nothing like this would have happened," al-Sadr said a statement. "Brothers in the Mahdi Army must protect all Shiite shrines and mosques, especially in Samarra."

At least 46 bodies were found scattered across Iraq late Wednesday and early Thursday, many of them shot execution-style and dumped in Shiite-dominated parts of the capital, Baghdad.

They included a prominent Al-Arabiya TV female correspondent and two other Iraqi journalists, who had been covering Wednesday's explosion in Samarra. Their bullet-riddled bodies were found on the outskirts of the mostly Sunni Arab city 60 miles north of Baghdad.

In mostly Shiite Basra, police said militiamen broke into a prison, hauled out 12 inmates, including two Egyptians, two Tunisians, a Libyan, a Saudi and a Turk, and shot them dead in reprisal for the shrine attack. They had been held in Basra after trying to leave the country following the 2004 U.S. attack on the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah.

The destruction of Samarra's gleaming dome of the 1,200-year-old Askariya shrine sent crowds of angry Shiites into the streets. Many included members of al-Sadr's Mahdi Army and other Shiite militias which the U.S. wants abolished.

The hardline Sunni clerical Association of Muslim Scholars said 168 Sunni mosques were attacked, 10 imams killed and 15 abducted. The figures could not be independently confirmed.

In Thursday's violence, unidentified assailants fired machine guns and threw hand grenades at the Abu Ayoub al-Ansari mosque in Baqouba, about 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. At least one mosque employee was killed and two others injured, police said.

The eight Iraqi soldiers died when a bomb exploded near their patrol in the center of the city, the army said.

Also Thursday, thousands of protesters carrying Shiite flags and banners marched through parts of Baghdad and the Shiite holy city of Najaf. Shiite leaders called upon the people of Najaf to go to Samarra to defend the shrine.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/qsxrf

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Roadside bombs kill seven US soldiers in Iraq
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Seven U.S. soldiers were killed in two separate incidents in
Iraq on Wednesday when roadside bombs struck the vehicles in which they were traveling, the U.S. military said on Thursday.

Four U.S. soldiers were killed in the Iraqi town of Hawija while on patrol, the military said.

Three U.S. soldiers were killed near the Iraqi town of Balad when their vehicle struck another roadside bomb.

The deaths bring to 2,287 the number of U.S. troops who have died in Iraq since the U.S.-led war that toppled
Saddam Hussein in 2003. Roadside bombs are some of the most effective killers of U.S. troops in Iraq.
http://tinyurl.com/r4ufk

[alkemical]

Sure we'll pay for the damn Dome...we'll pay for everything and it won't make a bit of difference....everyone knows this.

As far as the gay marriage thing goes...nothing motivates and strikes fear in the GOP base like a homosexual issue.....it's a proven conservative "turn out to vote" boogey issue. It's no different than say the flag burning amendment to get the juices flowing, the anger building and the base a marching all the way to the polls....it gets the votes, but no amendments will ever come of it all because they need these emotional issues when it's not a blowout election situation.


will you be taking home toby kieth or passion of the christ with your vote today?

[Meck77]

Encourage civil war?

In a country that we are spending 2 Trillion dollars to create a show case Middle East democracy.

This is not what is meant by exit strategy but will end up being the cause of US departing Iraq


I'm not sure what to think of all of this. I can't see how more bloodshed is going to help resolve the issue but it did take a Civil War in the United States to get America on track.

[baja]

I'm not sure what to think of all of this. I can't see how more bloodshed is going to help resolve the issue but it did take a Civil War in the United States to get America on track.

This blood shed has been going on for thousands of years, doesn't look good for a quick solution now, in the mean time Bush has our troops there in harm's way carrying the democracy message with no exit plan - not a good situation!

[Bronx33]

We didn't even get any cheap oil out of the deal....

They wouldn't pass the savings on to us (the people) anyways ohhhhhhhhhh YOUR WELCOME KIWAIT!

[TailgateNut]

This blood shed has been going on for thousands of years, doesn't look good for a quick solution now, in the mean time Bush has our troops there in harm's way carrying the democracy message with no exit plan - not a good situation!

No doubt, we went to a fvcked up country, and proceeded to fvck it up even more, with no plan but to spread the "word", to make work for Halliburton, and to put our children and grandchildren in debt!

[Spider]

I knew this Iraq shít wouldnt work out ... you have 3 different types of peoples there ....
1. the Kurds
2. The Nerds
3. The Turds ...........
Now I said along time ago you cant give these people somthing they didnt want to fight for , Democrocy ,yeah we got alot of Cash put into Haliburton to fix Iraq , but these freaking people dont want to be fixed , they want their faction to rule ............
what sucks is we will never get that money back , it is gone , Kinda like loaning your brother in law 40$ the shít is gone ............
But 1 good thing out of all of this is dont have to hear that Freaking retard Bush say stay the course ..................

[Hotrod]

But 1 good thing out of all of this is dont have to hear that Freaking retard Bush say stay the course ..................

Ha! I got 5 bucks that says we will hear just that from Hitler jr.

[Old Dude]

what a mess

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Baghdad Sealed Off to Stem Violence
By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq -
Iraq's most influential Shiite political leader called Friday for Sunni-Shiite unity as religious figures sought to calm passions and pull the nation from the brink of civil war after the bombing of a Shiite shrine two days ago and a wave of deadly reprisal attacks.

The government, meanwhile, announced stepped-up security measures, including a ban on entering or leaving Baghdad and deployment of armed forces in tense areas.

An extraordinary daytime curfew in Baghdad and three nearby provinces appeared to have blunted the wave of attacks on Sunni mosques that followed Wednesday's bombing, which destroyed the golden dome of the Shiite Askariya shrine in Samarra.

Still, Iraqis feared the violence that killed about 130 people after the Samarra attack had pushed the country closer to sectarian civil war than at any time since the U.S.-led invasion nearly three years ago.

Several joint Sunni-Shiite prayer services were announced for Friday, including one at the Askariya shrine. But security forces turned away about 700 people, virtually all of them Sunnis, who showed up for the service.

In a statement read over national television, top Shiite leader Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, said those who carried out the bombing in Samarra "do not represent the Sunnis in Iraq."

Al-Hakim instead blamed
Saddam Hussein loyalists and followers of al-Qaida in Iraq boss Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

"We all have to unite in order to eliminate them," al-Hakim said in a statement. "This is what al-Zarqawi is working for, that is, to ignite sectarian strife in the country," he added. "We call for self-restraint and not to be dragged down by the plots of the enemy of Iraq."

Dhafer al-Ani, spokesman for the biggest Sunni Arab bloc in parliament, praised al-Hakim's statement, calling it "a step on the road of healing the wounds."

But he said his Iraqi Accordance Front was still waiting for an apology from the government for failing to protect Sunni mosques from reprisal attacks, as well as a commitment to repair the damage and bring those responsible to justice.

The Sunni bloc Thursday suspended talks with the main Shiite alliance about forming a new government until its demands are met.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/gcwnd

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We didn't even get any cheap oil out of the deal....

"We" as in "American consumers?"

Quite right.

However, Bush and his cronies have certainly made a killing.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No doubt, we went to a fvcked up country, and proceeded to fvck it up even more, with no plan but to spread the "word", to make work for Halliburton, and to put our children and grandchildren in debt!

Exactly.

Middle class and average working Americans (and their children and grandchildren) will be picking up the tab for this misadventure for a long, long, time.

Meanwhile, Big Dick's old company and all of the defense contractors who contributed big $$ to Bush have been raking in the profits - only to be further rewarded by a succession of huge tax cuts.

http://www.bartcop.com/been-here-liar.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/not-nixon-crook.jpg

[TheDave]

As stupid as this administration is, I can't believe they didn't see this coming... Hell I'm sure even Errand knew this was on the way. So i guess that leaves us with the same 3 options...

1. Pull out now
2. Set a time table and pull out over time
3. Stay the course

Probably going to hear alot more about American Resolve, hunting down and killing the terrorists, Blah, Blah, Blah. Here is something that scares me... I wonder what the chances are that Iran starts talking to one of these groups (probably the Shiits). Just what we need to let Iran get involved in this.

[Cito Pelon]

Dang it! I wanted to have $1 million liquid before the stuff hit the fan. I'm only at $250k. Gonna be tough to weather this . . . . .

[baja]

Dang it! I wanted to have $1 million liquid before the stuff hit the fan. I'm only at $250k. Gonna be tough to weather this . . . . .

be prepaired for run away inflation, I smell it coming.

[Spider]

The Economy will be fine , Bush says so .......... but other then that , I expect prices to rise , but we will recover , we always do ............

[baja]

The Economy will be fine , Bush says so .......... but other then that , I expect prices to rise , but we will recover , we always do ............

You mean like after the great depression

[Spider]

You mean like after the great depression
called up a fincial advisor his advice was to .......Stock up on can goods and Shotguns ........ ;D

[baja]

called up a fincial advisor his advice was to .......Stock up on can goods and Shotguns ........ ;D

Don't forget the toilet paper..Ha!

[gunns]

Encourage civil war?

In a country that we are spending 2 Trillion dollars to create a show case Middle East democracy.

This is not what is meant by exit strategy but will end up being the cause of US departing Iraq

Looks like the showcase so far is a bust. I don't think Bush is smart enough to see this as a cause to depart.

[Spider]

Looks like the showcase so far is a bust. I don't think Bush is smart enough to see this as a cause to depart.
STAY THE COURSE , BRING IT ON , YOU ARE WITH US OR AGAINST US ........That should cover all the problems in the M.E. ......... ;D

[Cito Pelon]

Looks like the showcase so far is a bust. I don't think Bush is smart enough to see this as a cause to depart.

I've heard this is exactly what the "neo-Cons" were aiming for all along. Shake up the status quo, force people to choose sides. Force tough choices, forge new alliances, find out who is game and who is not.

It's a dangerous game. I tend to like the shakeup of the status qou. I don't like how Republicans have CYA'd by stuffing their pockets in a feeding frenzy on the middle class. And I don't like how the middle class has gone along with that program of paying the bills while the wealthy have been stuffing their pockets by way of Federal tax policy.

[Cito Pelon]

STAY THE COURSE , BRING IT ON , YOU ARE WITH US OR AGAINST US ........That should cover all the problems in the M.E. ......... ;D

GWB talks a good game. Punked out of Vietnam, but he talks like he was actually a warrior. I detest GWB for that reason. There's a special place in Hell for people like GWB. I grew up in the Vietnam era, volunteered as RA at 17 just over a year after Saigon fell, was willing to shed my blood on foreign soil to keep the enemy off American land. So I have solid legs to stand on detesting GWB for his punking, p***Ying out. I detest that piece of human filth for his phony patriotism. This piece of human filth is trying to preach to people about American stand-and-fight philosophy, and he pussied out of fighting on foreign soil to preserve American freedom when he had the chance to do so. The worst part of this p***Ying out by the phantom hero was somebody had to go to foreign soil to actually battle in his place. There were numbers to be made in Vietnam, and for every candy-ass that went the NG or Canada route, somebody else had to hit the ground in Vietnam. I detest punks that went that NG or Canada route.

[Spider]

GWB talks a good game. Punked out of Vietnam, but he talks like he was actually a warrior. I detest GWB for that reason. There's a special place in Hell for people like GWB. I grew up in the Vietnam era, volunteered as RA at 17 just over a year after Saigon fell, was willing to shed my blood on foreign soil to keep the enemy off American land. So I have solid legs to stand on detesting GWB for his punking, p***Ying out. I detest that piece of human filth for his phony patriotism. This piece of human filth is trying to preach to people about American stand-and-fight philosophy, and he pussied out of fighting on foreign soil to preserve American freedom when he had the chance to do so. The worst part of this p***Ying out by the phantom hero was somebody had to go to foreign soil to actually battle in his place. There were numbers to be made in Vietnam, and for every candy-ass that went the NG or Canada route, somebody else had to hit the ground in Vietnam. I detest punks that went that NG or Canada route.
I hear ya Bro ... My Dad was a Nam vet ..... BTW , you realy need to come out of your shell about your feelings about Bush ;D

[sisterhellfyre]

Looks like 2 trillion so far.

IF that's an accurate estimate of the cost of the Iraq war so far (with emphasis on so far), then assuming a current population of 300 million, that works out to something over $6,000 per person for every man, woman and child currently alive in the US.

The pricetag only goes up if you parse the population to leave out kids, people who don't work (or pay federal taxes), illegal immigrants, incarcerated prisoners, etc.

It's hard to see where I've benefited much, if at all, from that expenditure. It's a year's rent on my current apartment, the price of a decent used car, or a whole lot of other things that would directly improve my enjoyment of life.

Speaking only for myself, if the government is going to spend $6,000+ of my money on something "for my benefit," I'd rather see a more concrete payoff for it. And it doesn't take a Wonderlic test to see that.

Regards,
m.