Warning: Potentially Deadly Dog Treats

[-Slap-]

Owners: Dog treats killed our pets (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/14/dangerous.dogtreat/index.html)

By Greg Hunter and Pia Malbran

Tuesday, February 14, 2006; Posted: 9:36 p.m. EST (02:36 GMT)

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (CNN) -- At least 13 dogs have died after being fed the top-selling pet treat in the country, owners and veterinarians have told CNN.

The problem comes because the treats, called Greenies, become lodged in a dog's esophagus or intestine and then some veterinarians say they don't break down.

"I know they are marketed in saying that they do digest. Certainly the ones that we've taken out, esophageal or intestinal, that have been in for days are still very hard," Brendan McKiernan, a board-certified veterinary internal medicine specialist from Denver, Colorado, told CNN.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/US/02/14/dangerous.dogtreat/story.dogtreat.jpg
Dog chewing on Greenie,
the best selling dog treat in
the United States.

Greenies recommends owners check that the treats are chewed and Joe Roetheli - who launched the brand as a treat that can freshen a dog's breath and clean its teeth - said it was important to pick the correct chew for a particular dog. There are 7 different sizes to choose from depending on the size of the dog.

But most of the dog owners CNN talked to say they did follow package instructions and they still had a problem.

Mike Eastwood and his wife, Jenny Reiff, recently filed a $5 million lawsuit in New York, blaming Greenies for the intestinal blockage that caused the death of their dog Burt.

"I'm mad that their packaging states that the product is 100 percent edible, highly digestible and veterinarian approved, yet our dog died of it," Eastwood told CNN.

S&M NuTec, which manufactures the toothbrush-shaped chew, won't comment on the case but in court papers denied the allegations.

Roetheli said the focus should be on the dental benefits and Greenies are saving dogs' lives by lowering the risk of periodontal disease.

He says feeding Greenies is far safer than putting a dog under anesthesia to clean teeth.

"Dogs really love the product!" he said. "They do a very effective job of cleaning teeth and freshening breath."

Any suggestion that Greenies are defective was rejected by Roetheli, who developed Greenies with his wife, Judy.

"Our product is safe. It is used every day by thousands of dogs, millions a week and it is basically a very safe product."

A CNN investigation uncovered 40 cases since 2003 where a veterinarian had to extract a Greenie from a dog after the treat became lodged either in the animal's esophagus or intestine. In 13 of those cases, the pet died.

One of those was Tyson, Josh Glass and Leah Falls' 8-month-old boxer, who was taken to Brent-Air Animal Hospital in Los Angeles, California, where vet Dr. Kevin Schlanger found the animal had a blocked intestine.

"It was very clear that it was something dense and firm that had caused the obstruction," Schlanger said. He removed a Greenie from the intestine.

McKiernan's says his Denver clinic has seen at least seven cases in the past five years, which he says is an unusually high number. That prompted him to start researching and writing a paper to warn other veterinarians of the problem.

He says his research, which he hopes to get published in a veterinary journal, shows compressed vegetable chew treats, of which Greenies is the most popular, are now the third biggest cause of esophageal obstruction in dogs behind bones and fish hooks.

The federal Food and Drug Administration says it's looking into eight consumer complaints about Greenies but has no formal investigation.

The issue has also been the topic of news reports across the country.

The chews are made of digestible products like wheat gluten and fiber, experts say, but the molding process makes the treat very firm and hard.

Roetheli, who runs S&M NuTec from Kansas City, Missouri, says Greenies do break down when properly chewed and swallowed by a dog.

He told CNN that any product has the potential to cause an obstruction in a dog and that Greenies packaging warns dog owners to monitor their dog to ensure the treat is adequately chewed. "Gulping any item can be harmful or even fatal to a dog," the package says.

The company's Web site addresses the issue in its FAQ section with the question "When giving an animal Greenies, does it affect their digestive system?" The answer "The only time dogs would be unable to digest anything would be if they didn't chew it up before they swallowed it. Canine and Feline Greenies are highly digestible when chewed."

The company says the number of complaints it has received is very low in relation to the vast numbers of treats sold, and CNN spoke with several vets who recommended Greenies.

Introduced in 1998, we found Greenies now selling for about $16 a pound. Last year, 325 million individual treats were sold around the world, nearly three times the sales of its nearest competitor Milk Bone, according to the marketing company Euromonitor International.

"At the end of the day ... literally millions of Greenies are enjoyed by dogs on a weekly basis with absolutely no incidents," company vet Brad Quest told CNN.

[Odysseus]

My dogs have eaten those before and didn't really like them. I sent an email home to make sure that any of those dog bisquits were tossed rather than let my dog eat them. That is a terrrible way to lose a friend especially since the only ones getting those are the conscientious ones.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Thanks for the heads up, Slap.

[Mile High Shack]

my dog didn't mind them, of course she will eat anything though

but she chews them up pretty good, she is a power chewer

I just give her mints to freshen her breath up

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Sad stuff for those people who lost their friend!
I never give my dogs anything but large bones.

On a brighter note, America's top dog....... Rufus!




http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060215/capt.df23459b6b864e31b3bb33b266eecef1.westminster_ dog_show_nykw115.jpg?x=380&y=280&sig=8lSESzuekLuH830U2osPVw--
Rufus, a colored bull terrier, holds his pose in the ring after winning Best in Show at the 130th annual Westminster Kennel Club dog show , Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006, in New York. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Rufus the Bull Terrier America's Top Dog


By BEN WALKER, AP Sports Writer Wed Feb 15, 5:51 AM ET

NEW YORK - Rufus won by a head. A colored bull terrier became America's top dog Tuesday night, winning Best in Show at the Westminster Kennel Club, thanks to his most prominent feature.

His perfect, egg-shaped noggin.

"The classic profile of a colored bull terrier," judge James Reynolds praised.

The tan-and-white canine was the first of his breed to win at the nation's most prestigious show. He was picked over a popular golden retriever, a Rottweiler handled by a former Florida State linebacker, a prize pug and a spirited Dalmatian.

Rufus' handler, Kathy Kirk, said she was "ready to pass out" from the pressure on the green carpet at Madison Square Garden. Her nearly 6-year-old dog that she playfully calls "Puppyhead" took it all in stride.

He stacked in style — holding his pose for the judge — and wagged his tail when he won. Later, he'll "hucklebuck" — that's how Kirk describes how he jumps up and bangs his behind into a door.

At a show that drew 2,622 entries in 165 breeds and varieties, Rufus really earned this victory. He beat out a favorite Norfolk terrier named Coco and a Dandie Dinmont co-owned by Bill Cosby just to reach the final ring.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/a8wtx

[epicSocialism4tw]

On a brighter note, America's top dog....... Rufus!
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060215/capt.df23459b6b864e31b3bb33b266eecef1.westminster_ dog_show_nykw115.jpg?x=380&y=280&sig=8lSESzuekLuH830U2osPVw--
Rufus, a colored bull terrier, holds his pose in the ring after winning Best in Show at the 130th annual Westminster Kennel Club dog show , Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006, in New York. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Rufus the Bull Terrier America's Top Dog


http://tinyurl.com/a8wtx

Bull Terriers stinkin' rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mile High Shack]

Spuds Mackenzie!!!

[-Slap-]

Sad stuff for those people who lost their friend!
I never give my dogs anything but large bones.

On a brighter note, America's top dog....... Rufus!




http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060215/capt.df23459b6b864e31b3bb33b266eecef1.westminster_ dog_show_nykw115.jpg?x=380&y=280&sig=8lSESzuekLuH830U2osPVw--
Rufus, a colored bull terrier, holds his pose in the ring after winning Best in Show at the 130th annual Westminster Kennel Club dog show , Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006, in New York. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Rufus the Bull Terrier America's Top Dog


By BEN WALKER, AP Sports Writer Wed Feb 15, 5:51 AM ET

NEW YORK - Rufus won by a head. A colored bull terrier became America's top dog Tuesday night, winning Best in Show at the Westminster Kennel Club, thanks to his most prominent feature.

His perfect, egg-shaped noggin.

"The classic profile of a colored bull terrier," judge James Reynolds praised.

The tan-and-white canine was the first of his breed to win at the nation's most prestigious show. He was picked over a popular golden retriever, a Rottweiler handled by a former Florida State linebacker, a prize pug and a spirited Dalmatian.

Rufus' handler, Kathy Kirk, said she was "ready to pass out" from the pressure on the green carpet at Madison Square Garden. Her nearly 6-year-old dog that she playfully calls "Puppyhead" took it all in stride.

He stacked in style — holding his pose for the judge — and wagged his tail when he won. Later, he'll "hucklebuck" — that's how Kirk describes how he jumps up and bangs his behind into a door.

At a show that drew 2,622 entries in 165 breeds and varieties, Rufus really earned this victory. He beat out a favorite Norfolk terrier named Coco and a Dandie Dinmont co-owned by Bill Cosby just to reach the final ring.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/a8wtx

Rufus is a beauty! I want to scratch his tummy.

[bronco_diesel]

thanks slap.

btw - saw a dog yesterday that looks just like the one in you pic. didn't happen to be at a albertsons did ya?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Spuds Mackenzie!!!


Mine is all white. Bull Terriers are extremely loyal and have great personalities.

[Mile High Shack]

Mine is all white. Bull Terriers are extremely loyal and have great personalities.

they aren't violent like their cousins the pitbull are they?

[epicSocialism4tw]

they aren't violent like their cousins the pitbull are they?

They can be...they need attention when socializing. That should be done early or they can be aggressive against other dogs.

[bronco militia]

wow...my dog loves greenies

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

I got my Samoyed back in October and gave him some Greenies. My girlfriend's mom is the one that gave me the heads-up on the danger of them. Google around and you'll see a number of stories of dogs choking on them or having serious stomach issues because the parts just sat in their guts and didn't digest. Suffice it to say, I haven't given my dog one since then.

But I tell you what - the little sucker can tear up some baseballs. Cheap toy, too. About $0.50 each.

[Mile High Shack]

They can be...they need attention when socializing. That should be done early or they can be aggressive against other dogs.

hmm

I'll stick with labs then :)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

hmm

I'll stick with labs then :)
Never can wrong with mixed breeds (well, almost never).
They are all I've ever owned and every one of them have been intelligent, unconditionally loving and loyal to no end.

Never paid one penny for any of them besides shots and adoption fees from the shelters.

[Rigs11]

My labs get compressed rawhide retreiver rolls. They absolutely destroy them too. And it keeps their teeth nice and clean.

[Mile High Shack]

Never can wrong with mixed breeds (well, almost never).
They are all I've ever owned and every one of them have been intelligent, unconditionally loving and loyal to no end.

Never paid one penny for any of them besides shots and adoption fees from the shelters.

that's where I got my lab

she was "used"

she was too hyper I guess and I got her from a shelter

ask rascal, she is a mess, she is just HYPER...lol

[Rascal]

Shaw hyper....never :)

[Mile High Shack]

My labs get compressed rawhide retreiver rolls. They absolutely destroy them too. And it keeps their teeth nice and clean.

be careful of those

rawhide is ok, but my friend who use to be a vet tech said that if you give them too much, they won't digest it either

[-Slap-]

Pitbulls are only violent when irresponsible owners make them that way. Unfortunately, people want to blame the breed rather than punish the deed. Instead of rounding up pitbulls, they should round up the Raider gear wearing pieces of **** who abuse them.

[Mile High Shack]

Pitbulls are only violent when irresponsible owners make them that way. Unfortunately, people want to blame the breed rather than punish the deed. Instead of rounding up pitbulls, they should round up the Raider gear wearing pieces of **** who abuse them.

I dunno dude, I think it is deep in their programming

sure the majority are ok, but I wouldn't trust my daughter around one

on the news the other day, this lady owned this pitbull as a puppy, regular middle class woman, treated it as her baby she said

one day the pitbull was sitting on her lap and bit her on the lip and tore her upper lip off, unprovoked

[Old Dude]

Thanks for the warning, Slap.

[-Slap-]

Never can wrong with mixed breeds (well, almost never).
They are all I've ever owned and every one of them have been intelligent, unconditionally loving and loyal to no end.

Never paid one penny for any of them besides shots and adoption fees from the shelters.
Sadly, animal shelters are Pit Bull City. Predictably, along with Pits, you're starting to see German Shepherds and other large dogs turning up on lists of animals that can leave you excluded from insurance coverage on your home. Thus, these magnificent animals are also turning up in shelters in record numbers.

How many German Shepherds give their lives annually in the service of man?

[Mile High Shack]

I love German Sheppards

[Rigs11]

be careful of those

rawhide is ok, but my friend who use to be a vet tech said that if you give them too much, they won't digest it either
really? I get different stories from different people. My vet says the rawhide chips are fine and yet others say that they are not good.I wish I could get a straight answer. Maybe i'll just stick to giving them marrow bones.What do you give your lab to chew on?

[-Slap-]

I dunno dude, I think it is deep in their programming

sure the majority are ok, but I wouldn't trust my daughter around one

on the news the other day, this lady owned this pitbull as a puppy, regular middle class woman, treated it as her baby she said

one day the pitbull was sitting on her lap and bit her on the lip and tore her upper lip off, unprovoked
I'm skeptical about the way the media reports any stories of this nature.

I also believe that this tendency could be almost completely bred out of these dogs, but the punishment for raising fighting dogs isn't nearly severe enough. Someone who breeds Pitbulls to be violent and then allows them to breed is essentially dispensing dangerous weapons into the community. The prison terms for this offense should be commensurate.

[Ray Finkle]

I give Kali (Boston Terrier) rawhide all the time....I used greenies a couple of times but switched to giving her the "breath bones" I can't remember the maker, I think it is by nylabone. They look like greenies but crumble very easy...

[-Slap-]

thanks slap.

btw - saw a dog yesterday that looks just like the one in you pic. didn't happen to be at a albertsons did ya?
I live in Vegas, Diesel. I know there are several Great Pyrenees in Denver, though. They're not on the city's canine hit list yet.

[Hotrod]

I have never bought a single doggie 'treat' for either of my dogs. They bring home their own bones they find laying around out in the country.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Greenie story on CNN right now. This stuff is NO good!!!!
Yeah, millions have been consumed but this stuff is treated to be rock hard to clean teeth.

Rawhide bones are something I won't give my dogs either.


Man, showing all these people who lost their dogs (from weener dogs to Boxers to Huskies) to these green rocks.... heartbreaking!!!!

[MrCrush]

Thanks for the info!!

[bendog]

They could breed out aggression from pit bulls, just like bulldogs had it bred out, but people want their pit bulls to be aggressive.

[Mile High Shack]

really? I get different stories from different people. My vet says the rawhide chips are fine and yet others say that they are not good.I wish I could get a straight answer. Maybe i'll just stick to giving them marrow bones.What do you give your lab to chew on?

I just get bones from the butcher shop to give to her...she has those outside, they make a mess

that and she has this thing called the indestrucabone that is so hard she can't break it, not matter how hard she tries

she is a power chewer, when I do give her rawhide, she chews it so hard her gums start bleeding

[Rigs11]

I just get bones from the butcher shop to give to her...she has those outside, they make a mess

that and she has this thing called the indestrucabone that is so hard she can't break it, not matter how hard she tries

she is a power chewer, when I do give her rawhide, she chews it so hard her gums start bleeding
Yeah guess i'll just stick to bones. gotta love labs. When my male was a pup, I left him in the hallway for a couple hours since it was cold out. Came back and he had eaten a chunk of the wall about a foot long.

[bendog]

mmmmm, beef short ribs.

[Mile High Shack]

Yeah guess i'll just stick to bones. gotta love labs. When my male was a pup, I left him in the hallway for a couple hours since it was cold out. Came back and he had eaten a chunk of the wall about a foot long.

yeah
my door jam to the garage door is 1/2 eaten

she got pissed we left her in the garage (it was too cold out) one day too long while we were at work

[Taco John]

Ollie loves greenies... I'm going to have to reconsider them...

[Taco John]

After watching that video, it's settled... Ollie's Greenies days are done...


Thanks Slap!

[MadCity]

Sadly, animal shelters are Pit Bull City. Predictably, along with Pits, you're starting to see German Shepherds and other large dogs turning up on lists of animals that can leave you excluded from insurance coverage on your home. Thus, these magnificent animals are also turning up in shelters in record numbers.

How many German Shepherds give their lives annually in the service of man?

That's the problem I'm going to be running into once I move. The wife and I want to get a dog at our new place but what I really want is a chow chow.
http://www.kennels.co.uk/images/U.Chow.jpg
I've wanted one of these guys for as long as I can remember. Unfortunately, owning one makes it practically impossible to get renters insurance.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime4/pandadog/Enter/PandaDog.htm

[DomCasual]

Rufus is a beauty! I want to scratch his tummy.
Brutus looks like David Schwimmer
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/02/15/gallery.westminster/p1_rufus.jpg

[DomCasual]

Brutus looks like David Schwimmer
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/02/15/gallery.westminster/p1_rufus.jpg
See?
http://1.im.cz/super/img/photo/00/31/13-article_v.jpg

[Ray Finkle]

See?
http://1.im.cz/super/img/photo/00/31/13-article_v.jpg
LOL

[Mile High Shack]

rufus has more personality though

[orange 4 life]

Sad stuff for those people who lost their friend!
I never give my dogs anything but large bones.

On a brighter note, America's top dog....... Rufus!




http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060215/capt.df23459b6b864e31b3bb33b266eecef1.westminster_ dog_show_nykw115.jpg?x=380&y=280&sig=8lSESzuekLuH830U2osPVw--
Rufus, a colored bull terrier, holds his pose in the ring after winning Best in Show at the 130th annual Westminster Kennel Club dog show , Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006, in New York. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Rufus the Bull Terrier America's Top Dog


By BEN WALKER, AP Sports Writer Wed Feb 15, 5:51 AM ET

NEW YORK - Rufus won by a head. A colored bull terrier became America's top dog Tuesday night, winning Best in Show at the Westminster Kennel Club, thanks to his most prominent feature.

His perfect, egg-shaped noggin.

"The classic profile of a colored bull terrier," judge James Reynolds praised.

The tan-and-white canine was the first of his breed to win at the nation's most prestigious show. He was picked over a popular golden retriever, a Rottweiler handled by a former Florida State linebacker, a prize pug and a spirited Dalmatian.

Rufus' handler, Kathy Kirk, said she was "ready to pass out" from the pressure on the green carpet at Madison Square Garden. Her nearly 6-year-old dog that she playfully calls "Puppyhead" took it all in stride.

He stacked in style — holding his pose for the judge — and wagged his tail when he won. Later, he'll "hucklebuck" — that's how Kirk describes how he jumps up and bangs his behind into a door.

At a show that drew 2,622 entries in 165 breeds and varieties, Rufus really earned this victory. He beat out a favorite Norfolk terrier named Coco and a Dandie Dinmont co-owned by Bill Cosby just to reach the final ring.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/a8wtx

and on an even BRIGHTER note, that dog is a bull terrier. :thumbs:

these friggin bans are gonna drive me out of my mind.

there's NOTHING inherently aggressive with pit bulls, other than a propensity for mild aggression to other ANIMALS.
never towards humans.
in fact, according to most all vets, breeders, and groomers pit bulls are one of if not THE best breed to have around children.

have a look at www.dogbreedinfo.com and look for yourselves.
NEUTRAL site that rates breeds of all kinds.
once youre on the site, click on the "reliability with children" and "reliability with strangers" sections and find the american pit bull terriers (many dogs fall into the "pit bull" umbrella, but the american pit bull terrier is the main breed, and the breed my dogs are).

notice that theyre listed in the BEST category.

vicious my ass.
the dogs dont need to be killed, but some of the owners do.

jake

[Ray Finkle]

why do some of you not feed rawhide to your dog? Is there something I should know? I give Kali a rawhide bone about once a week and she chews it throughout the day. Before it becomes to small for her to choke, I throw it out....

[-Slap-]

rufus has more personality though
Rufus' parents weren't well connected lawyers in the entertainment industry, either.

[orange 4 life]

they aren't violent like their cousins the pitbull are they?

good God in heaven.

click that link in my last post.
bull terriers are great dogs also (and part of the umbrella "pit bull" family), but
theyre rated BELOW american pit bull terriers in overall reliability and reliability with strangers.
i trust my pitbulls around anyone.
i DONT however have blind trust like that with other breeds of dogs.

[Rock Chalk]

hmm

I'll stick with labs then :)
Imma have to go double check where I found that but Labs bite people more than any other dog breed i the country. When I have the chance I will go look for that.

[orange 4 life]

hmm

I'll stick with labs then :)

labs are rated below pitbulls as well.

my lab has bit a few people (thankfully never doing any real harm).
my lab got kicked out of the vets office last month for aggressiveness (he's 8 years old)

my pitbulls on the other hand have NEVER bit ANYONE, and the vet cuddled with them for awhile after the procedure......while the lab was in the car.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

why do some of you not feed rawhide to your dog? Is there something I should know? I give Kali a rawhide bone about once a week and she chews it throughout the day. Before it becomes to small for her to choke, I throw it out....

My dogs eat anything they can get there yappers on (food wise). Rawhide doesn't digest well so I just don't give it to them. One of them immediately goes and buries bones and such (she watches too, if I'm watching her or my other dog is, she waits) so I can't keep track of what they do with the stuff I give them.

[orange 4 life]

Pitbulls are only violent when irresponsible owners make them that way. Unfortunately, people want to blame the breed rather than punish the deed. Instead of rounding up pitbulls, they should round up the Raider gear wearing pieces of **** who abuse them.

AMEN my friend.

pitbulls are essentially NEVER violent unless theyre abused and/or neglected.

anyone saying otherwise is full of sh!t.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Imma have to go double check where I found that but Labs bite people more than any other dog breed i the country. When I have the chance I will go look for that.

The pit bull controversy should probably be discussed in one of the other 3 or 4 pit bull threads already going instead of this one.

AMEN my friend.

pitbulls are essentially NEVER violent unless theyre abused and/or neglected.

anyone saying otherwise is full of sh!t.
Not true but the other threads address that.

[orange 4 life]

I dunno dude, I think it is deep in their programming

sure the majority are ok, but I wouldn't trust my daughter around one

on the news the other day, this lady owned this pitbull as a puppy, regular middle class woman, treated it as her baby she said

one day the pitbull was sitting on her lap and bit her on the lip and tore her upper lip off, unprovoked

the news huh?

....and you believed that right?

so in the 70's it was dobermans, and the 80's and 90's was rotty's, but now its pitbulls?
what a crock of sh!t.

it makes a good story. MOST of what you see reported as a "pitbull" attack wasnt a pitbull at all.
the rest are neglected and abused animals that are so confused its sad.

[Clockwork Orange]

Thanks for the heads up Slap.

[Rock Chalk]

The pit bull controversy should probably be discussed in one of the other 3 or 4 pit bull threads already going instead of this one.


Not true but the other threads address that.
edit** Haha TJ, nice censorship ass wipe.
In a tongue-in-cheek article, Daily Camera reporter, Clay Evans, asks the rhetorical question: "Should Labradors be banned?"

Boulder, CO, proposed a ban on 'pit bulls', despite evidence this 'breed' isn't the biggest problem. As proof, Evans writes:

"According to statistics kept by city of Boulder Animal Care and Control, "labs" — as they are so innocently called — were responsible for an astonishing 18.9 percent of the 748 dog bites in the city from 1997 to 2003, more than twice as many as the next highest breed (German shepherds, at 8.5 percent)."

Those who must actually do the job of killing dogs based on breed readily admit that nearly all the dogs they kill shown no signs of aggression, whatsoever.

99.9% of all dogs, from all breeds, will never be involved in an attack at any time in their lives.

[orange 4 life]

I love German Sheppards

so you love sheps but would be nervous around a pitbull in a good home?

sorry my friend, but you need to do your homework.

sorry also for the multiple posts and rants, but i cant help it.
this was, is, and will be an extremely passionate issue for me.
my family has a LONG tradition of working with animals dating back to my great grandmother paying for a wing of the denver dumb friends league, but the pitbull issue has been my focus for the last few years.

we've fostered dogs, donated time and money to various shelters, and assisted many people in adopting dogs.
we've worked with and around dogs for a LONG time, and ive NEVER seen another breed of dog that is as RELIABLE, KIND, AND LOYAL as the american pitbull terrier.
ive also never seen a dog so misunderstood and MISREPRESENTED.
heck, until we got one ourselves (not knowing what breed it was) i myself had heard the (mostly and or incomplete) bullsh!t news stories and was
a tad concerned myself.

do some research.
the american pitbull terrier is a completely NON aggressive breed (toward humans) unless neglected or abused, and that information is not hard to come by, and its near UNANIMOUS amongst the non biased sources of information.

my family and i will continue to work with animals (dogs specifically), but considering the DISGUSTING treatment of these breeds that is so prevalent in todays world, we have and will (for the time being anyway. hopefully this will change) focus ALL our time and energy on pitbulls, and the EDUCATION of people that simply have no clue how truly wonderful these dogs are.

ps- my wife and i are trying to have a baby right now. another reason to adopt pitbulls.

[Mile High Shack]

the news huh?

....and you believed that right?

so in the 70's it was dobermans, and the 80's and 90's was rotty's, but now its pitbulls?
what a crock of sh!t.

it makes a good story. MOST of what you see reported as a "pitbull" attack wasnt a pitbull at all.
the rest are neglected and abused animals that are so confused its sad.

I believed it b/c the woman who's lip got bit off was doing the interview

[orange 4 life]

They could breed out aggression from pit bulls, just like bulldogs had it bred out, but people want their pit bulls to be aggressive.

"people" dont want their pitbulls agressive, because any person that did 10 mins. of research would know that a pitbull is nonagressive by nature and when taught to be agressive becomes confused and hence unpredictable.

AS$HOLES want their pitbulls agressive, because theyre as$holes.

[CUBuffman08]

With all this talk of choking and Greenies I thought this was another Cheif thread

[REB]

Thanx for the head's up Slap. I've never given Sammy one of those and will be sure not too.

1-2-3 :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[orange 4 life]

The pit bull controversy should probably be discussed in one of the other 3 or 4 pit bull threads already going instead of this one.


Not true but the other threads address that.

1) didnt see the other threads yet. what a shame.
ill discuss it there, and ill discuss it here.
if you dont like it, dont respond.

2) completely true. EVERY breed of dog has the POSSIBILITY of unprovoked aggression. the FACT of the matter is pitbulls have a DRASTICALLY reduced possibility. notice i used the word "essentially"?
with the RARE exception, the americal pitbull terrier (from a loving home) will NEVER act aggressive towards other humans, even when they ARE provoked.

3) those rare exceptions are probably 90% due to owners inability to properly train.
an am pit from a loving home thats trained properly acting aggressive to humans is less likely than the odds of you winning the lottery.

[orange 4 life]

I believed it b/c the woman who's lip got bit off was doing the interview

...and you saw a picture of the dog?

the news story confirmed it was a pitbull?

you saw the background to know that she was a loving owner?

in aurora, a pitbull attack was reported awhile back.
a child lost an arm and had his face horribly disfigured. that was ALL that was reported.
come to find out, these dogs were his MOTHERS dogs, and they had been neglected, starved, and abused.
the kid hopped over the fence and the dogs didnt even know what the hell was happening.
the mom went to jail for animal cruelty and CHILD ABUSE.....

.....but only the fact that there was a child bit by pitbulls was initially reported.

the attack reported before that one in aurora turned out not to be a pit bull at all.......but the news refused to retract the story.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

1) didnt see the other threads yet. what a shame.
ill discuss it there, and ill discuss it here.
if you dont like it, dont respond.


Ha! I made it easy for you.

What is it with Denver and this Pit Bull genocide thing? (http://tinyurl.com/c5gxu)
Escaped Pit Bulls Attack Six in Illinois (http://tinyurl.com/a2667)


-------------------------------------------------

[-Slap-]

Breed Specific Legislation is nothing more than canine profiling and its causing a virtual dog holocaust in Denver. Dog haters and slimy insurance companies managed to panic a bunch of ignorant and suggestable people into enacting these misguided laws. I wouldn't live in Denver if they gave me a free house.

[Mile High Shack]

...and you saw a picture of the dog?

the news story confirmed it was a pitbull?

you saw the background to know that she was a loving owner?

in aurora, a pitbull attack was reported awhile back.
a child lost an arm and had his face horribly disfigured. that was ALL that was reported.
come to find out, these dogs were his MOTHERS dogs, and they had been neglected, starved, and abused.
the kid hopped over the fence and the dogs didnt even know what the hell was happening.
the mom went to jail for animal cruelty and CHILD ABUSE.....

.....but only the fact that there was a child bit by pitbulls was initially reported.

the attack reported before that one in aurora turned out not to be a pit bull at all.......but the news refused to retract the story.

yep, they showed a picture of the pitbull, they had to put it down

I have no idea of the background of this woman

all I know is, my lab would never do that

[Sodak]

I might need some of these for my neighbor's dog.

[orange 4 life]

youre a fvcking clueless idiot beerslug.

what a shock.
any threads from THIS year that i should look at now?

you can spout off any number of bullsh!t stories, but at the end of the day theyre just that. stories.
the start reported that bush and a female alien had a love child.
you believe that one too?

do the research dipsh!t.

go look at UNBIASED websites.
talk to vets. talk to groomers.
talk to people that actually have a clue what theyre talking about.

you'll find that the american pitbull terrier is one of if not THE safest dog to have around children.

its dumb fvcks like you that perpetuate this problem, and its dumb fvcks like you that cause alot of wonderful dogs to get killed.

go fvck yourself.

[orange 4 life]

Breed Specific Legislation is nothing more than canine profiling and its causing a virtual dog holocaust in Denver. Dog haters and slimy insurance companies managed to panic a bunch of ignorant and suggestable people into enacting these misguided laws. I wouldn't live in Denver if they gave me a free house.

isnt it ASTOUNDING that people are so damn stupid as to allow this to happen?
i cant even explain to you how frustrating it is.

even moreso when i look at my two wonderful loving pitbulls every day and know that theyd likely be dead if they werent with us.

its a crying shame, and its even worse considering ALL the facts show how ludicrous it is to single out a particular breed or breeds.

[orange 4 life]

yep, they showed a picture of the pitbull, they had to put it down

I have no idea of the background of this woman

all I know is, my lab would never do that

other post not directed at you.

my lab wouldnt do that either......and my pitbulls REALLY wouldnt do that.

again, the lab HAS bitten people. he DID get kicked out of the vets office last month for being aggressive.
the pits never have.

the fact that you have no idea the backgound of this woman says all i need to hear.
another story that leaves out all the details.

again, a pitbull trained (even MILDLY trained) from a loving home has less a chance of biting you than you have of winnin the lottery.

please stop acting like a sheep.
go do the research.

maybe you can help stop the horrendous prejudice.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

youre a fvcking clueless idiot.

what a shock.
any threads from THIS year that i should look at now?

you can spout off any number of bullsh!t stories, but at the end of the day theyre just that. stories.
the start reported that bush and a female alien had a love child.
you believe that one too?

do the research dipsh!t.

go look at UNBIASED websites.
talk to vets. talk to groomers.
talk to people that actually have a clue what theyre talking about.

you'll find that the american pitbull terrier is one of if not THE safest dog to have around children.

its dumb fvcks like you that perpetuate this problem, and its dumb fvcks like you that cause alot of wonderful dogs to get killed.

go fvck yourself.

Hilarious! ROFL!

I'm sure you're getting your point across with your school yard tantrum.

[REB]

youre a fvcking clueless idiot.

what a shock.
any threads from THIS year that i should look at now?

you can spout off any number of bullsh!t stories, but at the end of the day theyre just that. stories.
the start reported that bush and a female alien had a love child.
you believe that one too?

do the research dipsh!t.

go look at UNBIASED websites.
talk to vets. talk to groomers.
talk to people that actually have a clue what theyre talking about.

you'll find that the american pitbull terrier is one of if not THE safest dog to have around children.

its dumb fvcks like you that perpetuate this problem, and its dumb fvcks like you that cause alot of wonderful dogs to get killed.

go fvck yourself.

Damn dude. Way to get people to want to listen to your cause (which is a good one) and your knowledge of the breed. Try toning it down a little and stop the name calling and maybe people will be more inclined to take the time to actually hear you and possibly change their attitude towards the dogs. Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it.

[Rigs11]

yep, they showed a picture of the pitbull, they had to put it down

I have no idea of the background of this woman

all I know is, my lab would never do that
A lab couldn't do that. I don't know why people can't get it through their heads that pitbulls are being banned not because they bite, all dogs bite. They are being banned rather because when they do bite they cause so much damage.As for the numbers on labradors causing more bites..gee could it be because they are the most popular breed and have been for sometime now?

[bendog]

other post not directed at you.

my lab wouldnt do that either......and my pitbulls REALLY wouldnt do that.

again, the lab HAS bitten people. he DID get kicked out of the vets office last month for being aggressive.
the pits never have.

the fact that you have no idea the backgound of this woman says all i need to hear.
another story that leaves out all the details.

again, a pitbull trained (even MILDLY trained) from a loving home has less a chance of biting you than you have of winnin the lottery.

please stop acting like a sheep.
maybe you can help stop the horrendous prejudice.



I don't buy this at all. If you take a pup from a litter where the b**** and male and the previous generation or two have been bred to fight, you can socialize all you want, but you still have an animal that is dangerous, or potentially dangerous. And yes, pitbulls bite like gila monsters. Of course, rotwiellers and even great danes can mount a mighty bite.

But, I don't buy the notion that all pitbulls are dangerous. Two hundred years ago bulldogs were prolly just as dangerous.
go do the research.

[Mile High Shack]

A lab couldn't do that. I don't know why people can't get it through their heads that pitbulls are being banned not because they bite, all dogs bite. They are being banned rather because when they do bite they cause so much damage.As for the numbers on labradors causing more bites..gee could it be because they are the most popular breed and have been for sometime now?

I'm sure a lab who was beaten all it's life could, but our dogs couldn't

but generally labs are more laid back........even if they did nip at you, they don't have jaws built to lock on until death like pitbulls

[PLOWHORSE]

I got my Samoyed back in October and gave him some Greenies. My girlfriend's mom is the one that gave me the heads-up on the danger of them. Google around and you'll see a number of stories of dogs choking on them or having serious stomach issues because the parts just sat in their guts and didn't digest. Suffice it to say, I haven't given my dog one since then.

But I tell you what - the little sucker can tear up some baseballs. Cheap toy, too. About $0.50 each.


And baseball parts are a digetsible dietary supplement?? May want to limit that a bit. Leather and string? yeaaack!!

[Don Flamenco]

I dunno dude, I think it is deep in their programming

sure the majority are ok, but I wouldn't trust my daughter around one

on the news the other day, this lady owned this pitbull as a puppy, regular middle class woman, treated it as her baby she said

one day the pitbull was sitting on her lap and bit her on the lip and tore her upper lip off, unprovoked


That's the thing, you're supposed to treat them like the dogs that they are. Treat your dogs like dogs, and they will treat you as the human. Treat them like humans, or the a baby them like the ol lady, and they will treat you like you are a dog

[Popps]

I'm a huge fan of pit-bulls. My dog (a Boxer) has always gotten along very well with pits. Personality-wise, they remind me a lot of Boxers. VERY needy, very much people-dogs and very rambunctious.

As is so often the case in life, the truth lies somewhere in between, imo.

Pits are NOT natural-born human killers. They ARE (to some extent) natural born fighters, and to some extent, natural-born dog killers. Make no mistake about the breed. They are a fighting breed, and unlike many fighting breeds, their blood-lines come from dogs who kill other dogs.

Hence, owning Pits comes with a huge amount of responsibility. Unfortunately, most people who decide to take on a Pit don't know this. For instance, pure Pits are rarely recommended to be in 2-dog homes... and if they are, they should never be left unsupervised. (Just an example)

They're great dogs... they just have a switch, and if it's flipped, it can be big trouble if you're not prepared to handle it. I've see very well-intended dog owners bring their Pits to the dog park, only to have to (along with a few other people) pull them off of another dog before they rip their throat out.

Are Pits the only dog that will do this? Of course not. The difference comes in the potential damage the dog can inflict. There is a reason that Pitbull breeders all own what is called a parting stick.
( http://cgi.ebay.com/BREAKING-STICK-PARTING-STICK-pit-bull-pitbull-APBT_W0QQitemZ7744309163QQcategoryZ1283QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ) (They also make much longer models to minimize risk to your hands. )

So, yes... Rotts are big, mean dogs. They can cause damage. (Personally, I think they are more unpredictable than Pits.) But, the Rott doesn't come from bloodlines where those dogs that killed other dogs most efficiently... were bred more often. Pits are simply the most efficient of a fighting breed. Are all Pits dangerous? Of course not.

Of course, an abused Pit is an extremely dangerous animal. So, does that mean if Pits are raised properly, they're 100% safe? Not really, and the same can be said for any breed. Once again, it's about the Pit's POTENTIAL for damage.

It's a real quandary, because if you've ever met any Pits, you're probably like me... a big fan. But there IS an amount of caution and healthy respect that MUST be paid to this kind of animal. The buzz-phrase that people have now is, "punish the deed," when it comes to Pits. Well, how about we take enough responsibility to look honestly at the breed, and ensure that no "deeds" go down? Just because a Pit hasn't acted out, doesn't mean he/she won't. My Boxer is VERY friendly, but she's gotten into a few scraps at the dog park... and it didn't start happening until she was almost 4 years old. (Full sexual maturity.) She also just showed a little bit of aggression to a neighbor who came inside the house, recently. Nothing major, but until that day... she had done nothing but wag her tail and lick anyone once they were INSIDE the house. But, she was suspicious of this lady, and it took some time to get her over it. Again, just because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. They're animals, folks.

Again, I think they're great dogs. They just come with a different kind of responsibility.

Here's Bella (right) with Lucky (left) ... and Noodles (another Pit) is laying down behind them. (Can't quite see her.) Bella had a standing play-date with those two for almost a year before I moved to a different area.
http://worldchamprec.com/10687BellaLucky.JPG.jpg

[orange 4 life]

Hilarious! ROFL!

I'm sure you're getting your point across with your school yard tantrum.

so HUNDREDS of innocent loving dogs getting killed is funny to you?

youre one sick fvcker.

there's nothing funny about it.
forgive my "schoolyard tantrum", but idiots like you need to get a clue, and its BECAUSE of idiots like you that these dogs are dying.....and you find it funny.
what a miserable wretch of a human being you must be.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

so HUNDREDS of innocent loving dogs getting killed is funny to you?

youre one sick fvcker.

there's nothing funny about it.
forgive my "schoolyard tantrum", but idiots like you need to get a clue, and its BECAUSE of idiots like you that these dogs are dying.....and you find it funny.
what a miserable wretch of a human being you must be.
Climb down off your soap box. Where did I say "HUNDREDS of innocent loving dogs getting killed is funny"?

You have as much reading comprehension as my youngest......dog, maybe less.

EDIT: Since you couldn't figure out what I was laughing about, it was YOU, bouncing around your keyboard throwing a temper tantrum most 4 year olds would be proud of.

[orange 4 life]

Damn dude. Way to get people to want to listen to your cause (which is a good one) and your knowledge of the breed. Try toning it down a little and stop the name calling and maybe people will be more inclined to take the time to actually hear you and possibly change their attitude towards the dogs. Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it.

fair suggestion reb, but this is a passionate issue, and an issue that deals with HUNDREDS of dogs getting killed (just here in denver).

when someone like this turd laughs it off and links two meaningless old posts (one of which he started) without doing ANY real research on the matter it pisses me off.......ALOT.

you want RATIONAL argument?

read my post BEFORE that one. i even posted a link to a fair and unbiased website so people could get some truth.

how do you expect me to react to his sarcastic smiley face posts as if the issue has comedic value?
we're talking about someone who has ZERO knowledge of the issue, yet is proud of his position that dogs should be killed simply because of their breed.
is he a member of the KKK also?

yes, i understand there is a difference between humans and animals, but the simple FACT of the matter is that whats going on around the country with regards to pitbulls is the canine version of the holocaust, and regardless of how important a dogs life is to someone, its flat out wrong to create laws based SOLELY on prejudice.

[DomCasual]

So, um, those greenies can be pretty dangerous, huh?

Good to know.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

how do you expect me to react to his sarcastic smiley face posts as if the issue has comedic value?


ROFL!

Once again it's YOU, nothing else that is providing the entertainment with your juvenile ranting.

[orange 4 life]

I don't buy this at all. If you take a pup from a litter where the b**** and male and the previous generation or two have been bred to fight, you can socialize all you want, but you still have an animal that is dangerous, or potentially dangerous. And yes, pitbulls bite like gila monsters. Of course, rotwiellers and even great danes can mount a mighty bite.

But, I don't buy the notion that all pitbulls are dangerous. Two hundred years ago bulldogs were prolly just as dangerous.
go do the research.

ive done more research than you can possibly even IMAGINE.

no, you do NOT have an animal that is dangerous, potentially or otherwise.
both our dogs were rescues (we're 90% sure anyway) from pitbull fighting rings.
do you understand that when they are bred to fight, theyre bred to fight OTHER DOGS?
NOT humans.
they CANT be bred to fight humans. its against their nature completely (theyre natural companions, and they crave human attention more than food), which is why they get unreliable when theyre put in that position.

because our two were rescues from these bastards who fight them, they DO have some natural aggression towards other animals. again though, its ONLY other ANIMALS.
our youngest was growling at food time (we make our dogs all share bowls so there's no aggression between them) the first week or so we had him.
i went over and stuck my face down by the bowl next to his......and he backed away.
it was okay for ME to share the food, but not the other two dogs.
as soon as we spent the time to train him properly, he hasnt since been agressive with the other dogs.
in fact, he wants to lay down touching them, and has a strange habit of licking the older pits nose as a sign of affection.

my dogs COULDNT and WOULDNT hurt anyone, and theyre both from parents that were bred to fight.

now if youll do your research, youll find that everything im saying is 100% true.
they can often be EXTREMELY aggressive with other animals (our older pit did hop the fence once in new mexico when he was a pup and bite a passer by dog), but they will STILL not be aggressive towards humans unless neglected (they require ALOT of attention, because your love is literally what they live for. its amazing how emotional they are, and how long they remain sad if scolded) or abused.
its just that simple my friend.

i will of course acknowledge that their bite packs a very powerful punch, but two things here.
1) so do ALOT of breeds, such as shepherds, dobermans, rottys, boxers, and even labs, and.....
2) thats why its important to teach them as puppys that biting is completely unacceptable.

do that and you'll have the best dog you could ever hope for.
its just that simple.

[orange 4 life]

I'm sure a lab who was beaten all it's life could, but our dogs couldn't

but generally labs are more laid back........even if they did nip at you, they don't have jaws built to lock on until death like pitbulls

research research research.

pits have EXTREMELY powerful jaws, but the whole "lock jaw" thing is COMPLETELY fictional.
there's nothing different structurally about their jaws. theyre just stronger.

[orange 4 life]

ROFL!

Once again it's YOU, nothing else that is providing the entertainment with your juvenile ranting.

youre clearly such a stupid son of a bitch i shouldnt get worked up.

there's another laugh for you rain man.

[orange 4 life]

I'm a huge fan of pit-bulls. My dog (a Boxer) has always gotten along very well with pits. Personality-wise, they remind me a lot of Boxers. VERY needy, very much people-dogs and very rambunctious.

As is so often the case in life, the truth lies somewhere in between, imo.

Pits are NOT natural-born human killers. They ARE (to some extent) natural born fighters, and to some extent, natural-born dog killers. Make no mistake about the breed. They are a fighting breed, and unlike many fighting breeds, their blood-lines come from dogs who kill other dogs.

Hence, owning Pits comes with a huge amount of responsibility. Unfortunately, most people who decide to take on a Pit don't know this. For instance, pure Pits are rarely recommended to be in 2-dog homes... and if they are, they should never be left unsupervised. (Just an example)

They're great dogs... they just have a switch, and if it's flipped, it can be big trouble if you're not prepared to handle it. I've see very well-intended dog owners bring their Pits to the dog park, only to have to (along with a few other people) pull them off of another dog before they rip their throat out.

Are Pits the only dog that will do this? Of course not. The difference comes in the potential damage the dog can inflict. There is a reason that Pitbull breeders all own what is called a parting stick.
( http://cgi.ebay.com/BREAKING-STICK-PARTING-STICK-pit-bull-pitbull-APBT_W0QQitemZ7744309163QQcategoryZ1283QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ) (They also make much longer models to minimize risk to your hands. )

So, yes... Rotts are big, mean dogs. They can cause damage. (Personally, I think they are more unpredictable than Pits.) But, the Rott doesn't come from bloodlines where those dogs that killed other dogs most efficiently... were bred more often. Pits are simply the most efficient of a fighting breed. Are all Pits dangerous? Of course not.

Of course, an abused Pit is an extremely dangerous animal. So, does that mean if Pits are raised properly, they're 100% safe? Not really, and the same can be said for any breed. Once again, it's about the Pit's POTENTIAL for damage.

It's a real quandary, because if you've ever met any Pits, you're probably like me... a big fan. But there IS an amount of caution and healthy respect that MUST be paid to this kind of animal. The buzz-phrase that people have now is, "punish the deed," when it comes to Pits. Well, how about we take enough responsibility to look honestly at the breed, and ensure that no "deeds" go down? Just because a Pit hasn't acted out, doesn't mean he/she won't. My Boxer is VERY friendly, but she's gotten into a few scraps at the dog park... and it didn't start happening until she was almost 4 years old. (Full sexual maturity.) She also just showed a little bit of aggression to a neighbor who came inside the house, recently. Nothing major, but until that day... she had done nothing but wag her tail and lick anyone once they were INSIDE the house. But, she was suspicious of this lady, and it took some time to get her over it. Again, just because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. They're animals, folks.

Again, I think they're great dogs. They just come with a different kind of responsibility.

Here's Bella (right) with Lucky (left) ... and Noodles (another Pit) is laying down behind them. (Can't quite see her.) Bella had a standing play-date with those two for almost a year before I moved to a different area.
http://worldchamprec.com/10687BellaLucky.JPG.jpg

as always, great post popps.

pits are very needy. they crave human attention more than food.
they ARE very aggressive towards other dogs, and they WERE (and still are by some sick people) bred to fight.

still though, its important to note that they are NOT naturally aggressive AT ALL towards humans, and that information is basically UNANIMOUSLY agreed upon by anyone with an unbiased opinion.

only other thing i will add is in regards to the 2 dog households.

no way in HELL i'd bring home an adult pit, but you can have multiple pits in the house as long as the new dogs are adopted as pups.
we watched our puppy with the older pit for awhile, but since the new dog was a baby my older pit didnt consider him a threat.
now, its only been a couple months, but theyre brothers. no worries.

....and once again, for anyone out there that missed it the first time.

www.dogbreedinfo.com

there's zillions of sources of unbiased info, but this one is pretty good since it covers most all breeds.
look up "american pitbull terriers" and see for yourselves.
if you want more evidence, call your local vets and groomers.
go find other nonbiased websites.
the information is essentially identical everywhere.

[watermock]

I'm obviously not a dog person...see Beezlebub and Poopy, but I'm not against them, it's just I'm in town and it gets cold and our yard and house are fairly small. If I was living on the farm I would have a yard doggie tho, if only to chase off poachers of my critters. Matt is gone alot of the time in Arkansas farming, and I know damn well there has been poaching going on...we have family friends only that are allowed, and they generally take beaver and other nasty critters...as a treat, they can bag a couple phesants for dinner. Rambling....pisses me off tho. It's illegal to do that.

Anyway...greenie co. will deny deny deny during the litigation while they quietly change their formula if they have any sense. It should be relatively easy to make them more digestable if they aren't chewed by doggie. It might slightly reduce the teeth cleaning, but it would beat lawsuits. Again, not not a dog expert, but I imagine they are confusing a chew bone with food. People are probably giving them out like food when they dog is hungry and he gulps it down instead of chewing it to shreds.

I'm sure they have top scientists working on a new formula allready.

http://www.thefourthrail.com/images/features/0602/previewssimpsonsfuturama.jpg

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:8_Q96zGqZ6ybGM:http://www.simpsonstrivia.com.ar/simpsons-photos/wallpapers/professor-frink.gif

http://www.aqwh78.dsl.pipex.com/scans/badprof-peel.gif

[Bronco_Beerslug]

youre clearly such a stupid son of a b**** i shouldnt get worked up.

there's another laugh for you rain man.

Missed the anger management classes I see. Do you beat the wife when you lose it too?

[REB]

My anger management classes PISS ME OFF!!! ;D

[Kaylore]

So, um, those greenies can be pretty dangerous, huh?

Good to know.
LOL I was confused why this thread was four pages. I read Slap's initial post and thought "well I don't feed my dog biscuits, but if I do I won't use those." Four pages later I couldn't figure out what all the huff was about. I see it became a Pit Bull argument.

For what it's worth, I've worked with two women who owned Pit Bulls and both are dead from total consumption by the Pit Bull. All that remained was a pile of brains and note from the dog warning that any human that comes near it will be competely injested in a matter of seconds. Yikes!

Ok serously both their dogs are totally harmless and actually have a swett demeanor. They bark at me less than regular dogs, including my own (which would bark at everything if I let it).

I've never met a Pit Bull that was agressive to me in anyway or that showed any kind of overt hostile behavior. i'm not saying they don't exist, they can be trained to behave well just like other dogs. The "killer" Pit Bull persona is a creation of the media and inhumane people who beat and torment them until they're demented. The blame for those attacks should be put on the owners, and not the dogs themselves.

[orange 4 life]

Missed the anger management classes I see. Do you beat the wife when you lose it too?

no anger anymore.

once i realize i person is too stupid to tie their own shoes its hard to get annoyed by them.
thankfully my wife has a brain. hopefully you can go see the wizard and get one for yourself.

[orange 4 life]

LOL I was confused why this thread was four pages. I read Slap's initial post and thought "well I don't feed my dog biscuits, but if I do I won't use those." Four pages later I couldn't figure out what all the huff was about. I see it became a Pit Bull argument.

For what it's worth, I've worked with two women who owned Pit Bulls and both are dead from total consumption by the Pit Bull. All that remained was a pile of brains and note from the dog warning that any human that comes near it will be competely injested in a matter of seconds. Yikes!

Ok serously both their dogs are totally harmless and actually have a swett demeanor. They bark at me less than regular dogs, including my own (which would bark at everything if I let it).

I've never met a Pit Bull that was agressive to me in anyway or that showed any kind of overt hostile behavior. i'm not saying they don't exist, they can be trained to behave well just like other dogs. The "killer" Pit Bull persona is a creation of the media and inhumane people who beat and torment them until they're demented. The blame for those attacks should be put on the owners, and not the dogs themselves.

see how easy it is for someone with a brain?

nice post kaylore.

[Don Flamenco]

I'm a huge fan of pit-bulls. My dog (a Boxer) has always gotten along very well with pits. Personality-wise, they remind me a lot of Boxers. VERY needy, very much people-dogs and very rambunctious.

As is so often the case in life, the truth lies somewhere in between, imo.

Pits are NOT natural-born human killers. They ARE (to some extent) natural born fighters, and to some extent, natural-born dog killers. Make no mistake about the breed. They are a fighting breed, and unlike many fighting breeds, their blood-lines come from dogs who kill other dogs.

Hence, owning Pits comes with a huge amount of responsibility. Unfortunately, most people who decide to take on a Pit don't know this. For instance, pure Pits are rarely recommended to be in 2-dog homes... and if they are, they should never be left unsupervised. (Just an example)

They're great dogs... they just have a switch, and if it's flipped, it can be big trouble if you're not prepared to handle it. I've see very well-intended dog owners bring their Pits to the dog park, only to have to (along with a few other people) pull them off of another dog before they rip their throat out.

Are Pits the only dog that will do this? Of course not. The difference comes in the potential damage the dog can inflict. There is a reason that Pitbull breeders all own what is called a parting stick.
( http://cgi.ebay.com/BREAKING-STICK-PARTING-STICK-pit-bull-pitbull-APBT_W0QQitemZ7744309163QQcategoryZ1283QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ) (They also make much longer models to minimize risk to your hands. )

So, yes... Rotts are big, mean dogs. They can cause damage. (Personally, I think they are more unpredictable than Pits.) But, the Rott doesn't come from bloodlines where those dogs that killed other dogs most efficiently... were bred more often. Pits are simply the most efficient of a fighting breed. Are all Pits dangerous? Of course not.

Of course, an abused Pit is an extremely dangerous animal. So, does that mean if Pits are raised properly, they're 100% safe? Not really, and the same can be said for any breed. Once again, it's about the Pit's POTENTIAL for damage.

It's a real quandary, because if you've ever met any Pits, you're probably like me... a big fan. But there IS an amount of caution and healthy respect that MUST be paid to this kind of animal. The buzz-phrase that people have now is, "punish the deed," when it comes to Pits. Well, how about we take enough responsibility to look honestly at the breed, and ensure that no "deeds" go down? Just because a Pit hasn't acted out, doesn't mean he/she won't. My Boxer is VERY friendly, but she's gotten into a few scraps at the dog park... and it didn't start happening until she was almost 4 years old. (Full sexual maturity.) She also just showed a little bit of aggression to a neighbor who came inside the house, recently. Nothing major, but until that day... she had done nothing but wag her tail and lick anyone once they were INSIDE the house. But, she was suspicious of this lady, and it took some time to get her over it. Again, just because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. They're animals, folks.

Again, I think they're great dogs. They just come with a different kind of responsibility.

Here's Bella (right) with Lucky (left) ... and Noodles (another Pit) is laying down behind them. (Can't quite see her.) Bella had a standing play-date with those two for almost a year before I moved to a different area.
http://worldchamprec.com/10687BellaLucky.JPG.jpg

The American Temperment Test Society has the APBT at 83.4 percent passing grade.

http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

I'd like to add that dog aggression and human aggression are totally different things.

The old time rules of dog fighting had 3 people in the pit at all times. Who would wanna go into a pit if you had a chance to get mauled? Generations of this fact makes the APBT have a strong inhibition against biting humans making them terrible guard dogs. Breeders of the past would cull (kill) any defective dog to bite any humans and this is the reason why this breed is in so much trouble. Back Yard Breeders are breeding for size / color and most of the time breeding them to other larger type dogs to get the ghetto pits that is constantly being labeled as a "pitbull" by the media.

petey from lil' rascals
http://faculty.ulv.edu/~armstroc/petey.jpg






Sgt. Stubby, America's first K-9 hero
http://www.dawnrestdogs.org/HEROES_SGTSTUBBY.html
http://www.dawnrestdogs.org/SGT_STUBBY_2.jpg

[-Slap-]

There are dozens of dogs that were bred to fight. American Bulldogs, Cane Corse Mastiffs, Presa Canarios, the Japanese Tosa, the Argentine Dogo and many others. All of the dogs I listed are larger than American Staffordshire Terriers, some of them more than 100 pounds heavier.

My Great Pyrenees was said to be descended from the Hungarian Kuvasz, arguably the most hyper protective guard dog on the planet. At his peak of 180 pounds Bronco was capable of taking down a full grown man. In his first year, he took nips out of two of my friends who made the mistake of trying to walk into my house unannounced. Ben credited his former training as a paperboy for the hip turn technique that spared his future progeny, including my unborn Goddaughter. My other friend's genitals were probably spared by the generous roles of subcutaneous fat which spilled over his belt, creating a sort of natural nut protector.

I'm not sure why he went straight for the balls. I can assure you he didn't learn it from me. I was actually surprised to see him respond aggressively at all, because it came out of the blue, but once he hit puberty, he became a rather coarse fellow. I enacted some basic obedience training with him and that made him safe around people. I also neutered him which amped down the aggression factor quite a bit, but made him no less of a guard dog.

I also had to become pretty assertive with him to break all the alpha dog tendencies he retained from running roughshod over his littermates as a pup. He got in my face and acted like he wanted to challenge me at around nine months and well over 100 pounds. He got chonged in the head pretty good for his trouble. I didn't want to go that route, but it was the only time it was ever necessary.

I always regarded Bronco like a loaded shotgun and respected the immense power he possessed. This was crucial inside our house where his protective instincts were always set on high. He had to be introduced to strangers and he maintained a suspicious nature until he determined they were okay. Once he accepted them, they could do as they pleased. One of the most endearing things was watching him standing guard over my friends' children when they would lay down for a nap.

Interestingly, Bronco was very passive outside the house and he never showed a bit of dog aggressiveness. He rarely even deigned to cast a glance at most small dogs, even the yappers. I always thought that must have screwed with their self esteem a little bit, being ignored like a little mosquito, when you're busy talking smack.

[Taco John]

I also had to become pretty assertive with him to break all the alpha dog tendencies he retained from running roughshod over his littermates as a pup. He got in my face and acted like he wanted to challenge me at around nine months and well over 100 pounds. He got chonged in the head pretty good for his trouble. I didn't want to go that route, but it was the only time it was ever necessary.



I don't care what anyone says... You have to get physical with a dog who wants to challenge for Alpha position. They do it once, and you teach them why they should never, ever consider doing it again. That's how good dogs are made... Good owners.

[Mtbrncofn]

Owners: Dog treats killed our pets (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/14/dangerous.dogtreat/index.html)

By Greg Hunter and Pia Malbran

Tuesday, February 14, 2006; Posted: 9:36 p.m. EST (02:36 GMT)

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (CNN) -- At least 13 dogs have died after being fed the top-selling pet treat in the country, owners and veterinarians have told CNN.

The problem comes because the treats, called Greenies, become lodged in a dog's esophagus or intestine and then some veterinarians say they don't break down.

"I know they are marketed in saying that they do digest. Certainly the ones that we've taken out, esophageal or intestinal, that have been in for days are still very hard," Brendan McKiernan, a board-certified veterinary internal medicine specialist from Denver, Colorado, told CNN.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/US/02/14/dangerous.dogtreat/story.dogtreat.jpg
Dog chewing on Greenie,
the best selling dog treat in
the United States.

Greenies recommends owners check that the treats are chewed and Joe Roetheli - who launched the brand as a treat that can freshen a dog's breath and clean its teeth - said it was important to pick the correct chew for a particular dog. There are 7 different sizes to choose from depending on the size of the dog.

But most of the dog owners CNN talked to say they did follow package instructions and they still had a problem.

Mike Eastwood and his wife, Jenny Reiff, recently filed a $5 million lawsuit in New York, blaming Greenies for the intestinal blockage that caused the death of their dog Burt.

"I'm mad that their packaging states that the product is 100 percent edible, highly digestible and veterinarian approved, yet our dog died of it," Eastwood told CNN.

S&M NuTec, which manufactures the toothbrush-shaped chew, won't comment on the case but in court papers denied the allegations.

Roetheli said the focus should be on the dental benefits and Greenies are saving dogs' lives by lowering the risk of periodontal disease.

He says feeding Greenies is far safer than putting a dog under anesthesia to clean teeth.

"Dogs really love the product!" he said. "They do a very effective job of cleaning teeth and freshening breath."

Any suggestion that Greenies are defective was rejected by Roetheli, who developed Greenies with his wife, Judy.

"Our product is safe. It is used every day by thousands of dogs, millions a week and it is basically a very safe product."

A CNN investigation uncovered 40 cases since 2003 where a veterinarian had to extract a Greenie from a dog after the treat became lodged either in the animal's esophagus or intestine. In 13 of those cases, the pet died.

One of those was Tyson, Josh Glass and Leah Falls' 8-month-old boxer, who was taken to Brent-Air Animal Hospital in Los Angeles, California, where vet Dr. Kevin Schlanger found the animal had a blocked intestine.

"It was very clear that it was something dense and firm that had caused the obstruction," Schlanger said. He removed a Greenie from the intestine.

McKiernan's says his Denver clinic has seen at least seven cases in the past five years, which he says is an unusually high number. That prompted him to start researching and writing a paper to warn other veterinarians of the problem.

He says his research, which he hopes to get published in a veterinary journal, shows compressed vegetable chew treats, of which Greenies is the most popular, are now the third biggest cause of esophageal obstruction in dogs behind bones and fish hooks.

The federal Food and Drug Administration says it's looking into eight consumer complaints about Greenies but has no formal investigation.

The issue has also been the topic of news reports across the country.

The chews are made of digestible products like wheat gluten and fiber, experts say, but the molding process makes the treat very firm and hard.

Roetheli, who runs S&M NuTec from Kansas City, Missouri, says Greenies do break down when properly chewed and swallowed by a dog.

He told CNN that any product has the potential to cause an obstruction in a dog and that Greenies packaging warns dog owners to monitor their dog to ensure the treat is adequately chewed. "Gulping any item can be harmful or even fatal to a dog," the package says.

The company's Web site addresses the issue in its FAQ section with the question "When giving an animal Greenies, does it affect their digestive system?" The answer "The only time dogs would be unable to digest anything would be if they didn't chew it up before they swallowed it. Canine and Feline Greenies are highly digestible when chewed."

The company says the number of complaints it has received is very low in relation to the vast numbers of treats sold, and CNN spoke with several vets who recommended Greenies.

Introduced in 1998, we found Greenies now selling for about $16 a pound. Last year, 325 million individual treats were sold around the world, nearly three times the sales of its nearest competitor Milk Bone, according to the marketing company Euromonitor International.

"At the end of the day ... literally millions of Greenies are enjoyed by dogs on a weekly basis with absolutely no incidents," company vet Brad Quest told CNN.


Oh my gosh. Thanks so much for posting this, Slappy. My dog loves these things and the vet had recommended them for her heinous breath. I don't buy them much because they're kind of expensive.

Actually the last time I bought her one, she was a total hog and had eaten the thing in a very short time. About 20 minutes later, she threw it up. I've never seen her do that before. It could have been due to her just being a complete glutton about it, but now it makes me wonder.

[watermock]

Well that's amusing. I had a little pit bull that I tried to discipline and he damn near took off my pinkie.

Those Mastiffs are scary...I don't know what this guy did to them, or fed them, or what he fed them, but he had this odd farm we used to have keggers on...these dogs are HUGE and these two were man killers...it was a 40 south of Denver and this dog dragged a small deer back to feast off the property...they were nailed down by a giant stake and rope...naturally, mock was stupid enough to try to pet them...my cousin said they missed taking a piece of my ass/jewels by inches....

Those two were right out of the GhostBusters movie...I find myself clinching my jewels as I type...what monsters...these guys were the size of ponys...I'm not kidding...how many dogs drag a deer back to camp? Everyone fell down laughing as that monster caught his rope and man, was I embarrased but unharmed...There were many people at the kegger so I figured they wouldn't be aggressive with so many people...

Just another story of mock's brushes with death...and trust me...these two dogs/monsters were something out of a comic book. Here puppy seemed to mean "eat me" to those two.

[-Slap-]

I don't care what anyone says... You have to get physical with a dog who wants to challenge for Alpha position. They do it once, and you teach them why they should never, ever consider doing it again. That's how good dogs are made... Good owners.
He swallowed a pretty fair right hook. Far from my best, but it was a solid connection. He didn't budge and he barely blinked. He just went and laid down and I went back to whatever it was I was doing. The matter never came up again.

Letting a 180 pound guard dog attain the alpha position could literally be dangerous to you. Letting any dog, whatever his size, take over the alpha role is unfair to you and ultimately, unfair to the dog.

I have friends in California who are basically terrorized within their own homes by a ten pound tyrant named Rico the Miniature Pinscher.

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/miniature-pinscher-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/miniature-pinscher-0053.jpg
Not Rico, but another ferocious Min Pin.

I scared the living crap out of them by letting him lay on my chest with his mouth near my face. I was never concerned, though. I would have never allowed a dog to become like Rico in my house, but I showed him respect in his house and he loved me to death. He wanted to chew the skin off my girlfriend's skull, though.

[watermock]

http://www.massivedogz.com/Images/1horses%20dogs%200060.jpg

This one seems tame...like I said...these were mad like on LSD...in fact...I think my cousin said the fed them LSD once...at any rate...you can see the size even on a full grown horse.

These dogs were much bigger...some special giant breed.

[watermock]

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/miniature-pinscher-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/miniature-pinscher-0053.jpg

He looks like a minature version of some horror movie. Nasty ankle biter....

[-Slap-]

There are many types of Mastiffs. The English Mastiffs you're talking about are the largest of the breed. Males routinely exceed 200 pounds and some have even approached three bills. They were originally bred as guard dogs, too.

The Bullmastiff is another dog breed banned in Denver.

[watermock]

All I know they were the only dogs that ever put the fear of death in my bones...Thank God that stake didn't come out or the rope didn't break because they were on the mockster big time...these dogs were like nothing I have ever seen. They were like lions among kitty cats.

[REB]

Slap and TJ you are right. You have to let the dog know who's boss and the pecking order in the home right from the get go. We got Sam when he was between 6-9 months old. One day a few weeks after we got him I was kneeling down and put my face near his and for some reason he started growling at me and showing teeth. I smacked pretty hard on his nose/mouth 3 times and yelled bad dog. The tail went between the legs and he slowly went to hiding under the table. He came out a few minutes later sheepishly trying to cozy up to me and I yelled at him to go lay down your a bad dog. He did and later that evening we kissed and made up :) and there hasn't been a problem since. That was maybe 6 yrs ago now. He's very attached to me and would rather lie by my side then either the wife's or my son's who we got the dog for. And he just loves when family comes over to visit. He get's extremely excited and wont leave any of them alone for several minutes until he has been shown some lovin by each and every one :)

BTW Slap/ Love the buzz cut. That's what I'm sportin' nowadays to. No fuss. :)

For those who may not have seen my dog Sam before here he is with my son all decked out for a Bronco game :)

[Odysseus]

I think most of the posters here would be literally jaw dropped amazed with what a professionally trained dog can actually do. It's a real rarity.

My dog is only 70 pounds but if I get her after you I bet you crap on yourself. She is pretty accurate. I trust her judgement on people. My dog is not only smart but she's wise. The person who is taking care of my dog now didn't believe half the things I told them. They do now.

Most people take this amazing animal and turn it into a doormat that barks, a begger at the BBQ, or high priced bear bait. I admire people who work in the rescue programs because that takes a lot of hard work to reverse all that bad training.

I own three dogs and take care of nine. I miss my dogs.

[BroncoBuff]

I love dogs so much.

I'd have to say I love dogs more than people, on average.

Medical research has proven time and again that dog companionship is excellent therapy - for both physical and mental illnesses. Didn't surprise me one bit when I heard that. I actually wondered why they took the time to do a formal study. Shouldda been obvious.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

no anger anymore.

once i realize i person is too stupid to tie their own shoes its hard to get annoyed by them.
thankfully my wife has a brain. hopefully you can go see the wizard and get one for yourself.
She must have lots of compassion and patience to put up with your immature, ignorant, tirades too. Of course, you could have avoided coming off like a complete uneducated, feebleminded jerk if you would have acted like an adult and opened one of the pit bull threads to try discuss civily why you think there is nothing wrong with them.

[~Crash~]

isnt it ASTOUNDING that people are so damn stupid as to allow this to happen?
i cant even explain to you how frustrating it is.

even moreso when i look at my two wonderful loving pitbulls every day and know that theyd likely be dead if they werent with us.

its a crying shame, and its even worse considering ALL the facts show how ludicrous it is to single out a particular breed or breeds.

they are not singling out one breed that is were they will start I had my house insurence cancled for my golden retrievers then to get insurence I had to pay neary double and these dogs you could beat to death and they would lick you the whole time you was doing this the pit bull is the start!!!! also kids will tease dogs and I dont care what you say pit bulls should not be around children for this reason !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so deal with it .

[bendog]

http://www.lonestarbulldogs.com/bulldog.html

[REB]

http://www.lonestarbulldogs.com/bulldog.html

I've thought about getting an English Bulldog before. I think there pretty cool.

[bendog]

Henry's an english springer spaniel and field as opposed to show standard. I'm hoping I hold together long enough for this dog. I had forgotten how much energy and endurance they have when young. I'd considered and english cocker spaniel, as they are a bit of a downsize, but still legit sporting dogs. I love labs, and goldens, but their are so many of them, and they both tend to put on weight. Springers are athletic till over 10 years.

Here's an alternative to the bulldog. Bulldog's are tending to have breathing issues going from chronic snoring to actual asthma like conditions, and the folds in their skin aren't too good in the warm moist air. But they're such damn good yard ornaments. I'm thinking of adding one of these when I'm down to needing one of those mobility scooters.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/images/header_breedinfo.gif

http://www.clumbers.org/

Mrs Dog first saw this breed on some tv show. It drooled so much, it wore a bib.

[KCbroncos]

We produce the direct mail and do some marketing for the company that produces Greenies here in KC, so this negitive publicity is not doing me any favors. I grew up with many labs and they were always gagging on something if they swallow it whole.

I think these few isolated incidents with Greenies have made the product look worse than it actually is. If you review Milkbone, Beggin Strips or any other dog treat product, you'll see they've all had incidents one time or another. Just another case of the media overhyping something (like Ray Lewis).

[Bronco_Beerslug]

We produce the direct mail and do some marketing for the company that produces Greenies here in KC, so this negitive publicity is not doing me any favors. I grew up with many labs and they were always gagging on something if they swallow it whole.

I think these few isolated incidents with Greenies have made the product look worse than it actually is. If you review Milkbone, Beggin Strips or any other dog treat product, you'll see they've all had incidents one time or another. Just another case of the media overhyping something (like Ray Lewis).
Big difference here between milk bones and these glazed rocks. Watching vets pulling them out of intestines weeks later with no degeneration in the "greenie" was all I needed to see.

[Rascal]

Henry's an english springer spaniel and field as opposed to show standard. I'm hoping I hold together long enough for this dog. I had forgotten how much energy and endurance they have when young. I'd considered and english corker spaniel, as they are a bit of a downsize, but still legit sporting dogs. I love labs, and goldens, but their are so many of them, and they both tend to put on weight. Springers are athletic till over 10 years.

Here's an alternative to the bulldog. Bulldog's are tending to have breathing issues going from chronic snoring to actual asthma like conditions, and the folds in their skin aren't too good in the warm moist air. But they're such damn good yard ornaments. I'm thinking of adding one of these when I'm down to needing one of those mobility scooters.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/images/header_breedinfo.gif

http://www.clumbers.org/

Mrs Dog first saw this breed on some tv show. It drooled so much, it wore a bib.

That was my first dog!!! His name was Rascal...hence my username.

He lived to be 15 years old till we had to put him down, and up till 12 he was very active.

Our next door neighbor also had an english springer spaniel but it was much smaller. For some reason Rascal was rather large for his breed (not fat though) as he weighed 65 pounds in his prime.

He was very loyal, obedient, and safe for kids. He was also very protective of me and my younger sister and unwaranted guests. If we didn't introduce Rascal to them he would be aggressive towards them especially if they came in through the side of the house and not the front. But once he met them everything was fine. I would recommend this bread for any dog owner.

[REB]

Henry's an english springer spaniel and field as opposed to show standard. I'm hoping I hold together long enough for this dog. I had forgotten how much energy and endurance they have when young. I'd considered and english corker spaniel, as they are a bit of a downsize, but still legit sporting dogs. I love labs, and goldens, but their are so many of them, and they both tend to put on weight. Springers are athletic till over 10 years.

Here's an alternative to the bulldog. Bulldog's are tending to have breathing issues going from chronic snoring to actual asthma like conditions, and the folds in their skin aren't too good in the warm moist air. But they're such damn good yard ornaments. I'm thinking of adding one of these when I'm down to needing one of those mobility scooters.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/images/header_breedinfo.gif

http://www.clumbers.org/

Mrs Dog first saw this breed on some tv show. It drooled so much, it wore a bib.

I want one of those scooter's too. I'm tired of walking :)

And when I get another dog I want to get a small-medium sized one that tends to be chill like the description of the bulldog. What other breeds tend to be more laid back and lazy like me? :) I'm getting the backyard fenced in so when it does need some exercise it can run free back there. Sammy luckily has learned to stay with us so he doesn't leave the yard. I keep an eye out just in case he gets any ideas/

1-2-3 :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[bendog]

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amstaff.html

nice link. My neighbor has a part pitbull that was abused as a pup. I'm really not to sure about the soundness of this dog, but she likes Henry, and she shows no sign of trying to get through the fence. Neighbor on the other side has worked for years with the rescue league. She's got a miniture weinerdog and a deaf australian shepherd from the rescue league. He's an amusing dog.

[REB]

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amstaff.html

nice link. My neighbor has a part pitbull that was abused as a pup. I'm really not to sure about the soundness of this dog, but she likes Henry, and she shows no sign of trying to get through the fence. Neighbor on the other side has worked for years with the rescue league. She's got a miniture weinerdog and a deaf australian shepherd from the rescue league. He's an amusing dog.

Cool link bendog. Thanx!

1-2-3 :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[Rascal]

Oh...

Rascal and the next door neighbor english springer spaniel had the tendency of running away on occasion. We lived in the foothills and there were some hogbacks about 50 yards away from my house so that is where he always went. He would go and play for a while and then come back home.

He also had hip displesia (SP?) later in life, but one asprin in some meat seemed to take care of the problem although at times we wondered if he faked it just to get some meat.

[Taco John]

We produce the direct mail and do some marketing for the company that produces Greenies here in KC, so this negitive publicity is not doing me any favors. I grew up with many labs and they were always gagging on something if they swallow it whole.

I think these few isolated incidents with Greenies have made the product look worse than it actually is. If you review Milkbone, Beggin Strips or any other dog treat product, you'll see they've all had incidents one time or another. Just another case of the media overhyping something (like Ray Lewis).



My dog loves the damn things, there is no doubt... But I just can't risk him being one of the few dogs who chokes on this stuff. I'd feel much better letting him chisel down a marrow bone, or munching on a couple of cookies. I've already gotten back surgery for the dog once, when he had a disc rupture that could have paralyzed him from the middle of the spine on downward. I've gotten three good years out of him since, and plan for many, many more. I can't let some stupid dog treat risk his life... Especially overpriced dog treats.

[bendog]

Although Pit Bulls are not listed, Staffordshires are, and honestly I'm not sure what the distinction is, between them. I've assumed that pits are "something" with Staffordshire and other breeding mixed in. Maybe I'm wrong. But, this site is the best I've found for links to breed info. Under each breed's result page, there is a link under each specific animal to a brief description of the breed standards, and that page will have a link to the American club on that specific breed.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2006/results/breed/index.html

But, if you want a couch potatoe (-:, you could go to the rescue league and ask them to bring out the laziest friedliest pooch of the size you're looking for. If not for the cat, I'd do that. I cannot afford anymore animals. I cannot even afford the cat. But then, Henry's not an alpha type, but he gets jealous of other dogs, so I don't see how I could introduce another now.

[DomCasual]

I've thought about getting an English Bulldog before. I think there pretty cool.
Let me tell you about English Bulldogs. LET ME JUST TELL YOU ABOUT ENGLISH BULLDOGS!

I love that breed! We just lost ours last year - her name was Athena (picture below), and she was twelve. The only downside I see with them is that they can have health problems - which I guess is a pretty big downside, considering we probably approached $10K in vet bills throughout her life. She was worth every penny of it, though. She was just a big, fat, lovable slob. She belched and farted non-stop, and snored so loud that you could hear it throughout the house (easily fixed by sleeping with a fan in our room). But she let our son climb all over her - even when he was a baby, and she was well-accustomed to having her own space. And there was never a more lovable dog. She would leave her favorite food to get her belly rubbed - how many dogs can you say that about? When she got too old to walk far, we would load her up (and I do mean "load her up") into my son's old wagon, and we would drag her around the neighborhood. She would just sit there like a queen in her chariot.

I can't tell you how much I miss her - I'm tearing up just thinking about her. We got her when we were first married, and got a Shar-pei at about the same time. We lost both of them within about two months of each other. I loved the Shar-pei just as much, although she was a totally different dog with a completely opposite personality. We got a couple yappy puppies after ours died, and they are growing on me. But we'll never replace our Bulldog and Shar-pei.

Sorry for the rambling, but man, I loved those dogs!
http://www.geonmedia.com/images/Athena.gif

[REB]

Although Pit Bulls are not listed, Staffordshires are, and honestly I'm not sure what the distinction is, between them. I've assumed that pits are "something" with Staffordshire and other breeding mixed in. Maybe I'm wrong. But, this site is the best I've found for links to breed info. Under each breed's result page, there is a link under each specific animal to a brief description of the breed standards, and that page will have a link to the American club on that specific breed.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2006/results/breed/index.html

But, if you want a couch potatoe (-:, you could go to the rescue league and ask them to bring out the laziest friedliest pooch of the size you're looking for. If not for the cat, I'd do that. I cannot afford anymore animals. I cannot even afford the cat. But then, Henry's not an alpha type, but he gets jealous of other dogs, so I don't see how I could introduce another now.

Thanks bendog. I'll check that site out. I've never bought a dog before. I've always rescued one from the pound so I don't know which way I'll go this time. Alot less health problems with a mixed breed form the SPCA that's for sure. And it's nice to know that you probably saved their life and somehow I get the feeling they know it too somehow.

[REB]

Let me tell you about English Bulldogs. LET ME JUST TELL YOU ABOUT ENGLISH BULLDOGS!

I love that breed! We just lost ours last year - her name was Athena (picture below), and she was twelve. The only downside I see with them is that they can have health problems - which I guess is a pretty big downside, considering we probably approached $10K in vet bills throughout her life. She was worth every penny of it, though. She was just a big, fat, lovable slob. She belched and farted non-stop, and snored so loud that you could hear it throughout the house (easily fixed by sleeping with a fan in our room). But she let our son climb all over her - even when he was a baby, and she was well-accustomed to having her own space. And there was never a more lovable dog. She would leave her favorite food to get her belly rubbed - how many dogs can you say that about? When she got too old to walk far, we would load her up (and I do mean "load her up") into my son's old wagon, and we would drag her around the neighborhood. She would just sit there like a queen in her chariot.

I can't tell you how much I miss her - I'm tearing up just thinking about her. We got her when we were first married, and got a Shar-pei at about the same time. We lost both of them within about two months of each other. I loved the Shar-pei just as much, although she was a totally different dog with a completely opposite personality. We got a couple yappy puppies after ours died, and they are growing on me. But we'll never replace our Bulldog and Shar-pei.

Sorry for the rambling, but man, I loved those dogs!
http://www.geonmedia.com/images/Athena.gif

Nice post Dom. She looks like a sweet ol' girl. I like the part about the belching, farting and snoring. Ha! She'd fit right in here Hilarious! :thumbsup:

[Alkazar]

labs are rated below pitbulls as well.

my lab has bit a few people (thankfully never doing any real harm).
my lab got kicked out of the vets office last month for aggressiveness (he's 8 years old)

my pitbulls on the other hand have NEVER bit ANYONE, and the vet cuddled with them for awhile after the procedure......while the lab was in the car.
Where is all this crap about labs coming from??? The worst breed out there is Doberman Pinscher followed closely by Dalmations. Labs are among the most loving, I know, I own one!

[Odysseus]

We produce the direct mail and do some marketing for the company that produces Greenies here in KC, so this negitive publicity is not doing me any favors. I grew up with many labs and they were always gagging on something if they swallow it whole.

I think these few isolated incidents with Greenies have made the product look worse than it actually is. If you review Milkbone, Beggin Strips or any other dog treat product, you'll see they've all had incidents one time or another. Just another case of the media overhyping something (like Ray Lewis).

I would not disagree with this. I had to take my dog to the vet over a pig ear getting lodged in her throat. I get them because she likes them. She doesn't like the greenies as much.

I think that the press gets paid to find new things for us to be afraid of. The point they are making is there is no acceptable mortality rate for premium dog bisquits and owners should be aware of this. The larger point will fade that dogs can choke on anything but what a tempting target "safe dog food that really isn't safe". How could they resist?

[DBroncos4life]

So I take it they have ruled out this as the killer?
http://www.elchupacabra.com/

[bendog]

What was that thread from ... I think last offseason ... where somebody posted this pic of wierd looking canine like animal (to me it looked like a hyena) running loose in some neighborhood (in new jersey I think) basically killing cats and stuff to survive. And then like a week or so later somebody posted about this wierd breed of dog, and damned if the two pics didn't match up?

That was wierd, and yes, my life is a boring slice of hell.

[REB]

That was wierd, and yes, my life is a boring slice of hell.

Hilarious! Hilarious! It's ok Bendog. I dont think any of us are climbing Mt. Everest or anything. :)

[Rascal]

I already did and it was overrated.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What was that thread from ... I think last offseason ... where somebody posted this pic of wierd looking canine like animal (to me it looked like a hyena) running loose in some neighborhood (in new jersey I think) basically killing cats and stuff to survive. And then like a week or so later somebody posted about this wierd breed of dog, and damned if the two pics didn't match up?

That was wierd, and yes, my life is a boring slice of hell.

Was this it?









http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8239/uglydog12mt.jpg

[REB]

That dog freaks me out everytime I see it. I love dogs but I don't think I could handle that thing. :)

[-Slap-]

That dog freaks me out everytime I see it. I love dogs but I don't think I could handle that thing. :)
He's cool. You would like him if you met him.

[Mile High Shack]

he looks like the Crypt Keeper's dog to me

[orange 4 life]

She must have lots of compassion and patience to put up with your immature, ignorant, tirades too. Of course, you could have avoided coming off like a complete uneducated, feebleminded jerk if you would have acted like an adult and opened one of the pit bull threads to try discuss civily why you think there is nothing wrong with them.

i owe you an apology, so here it is. im sorry.

that said, this issue is one too close to my heart, and ive SEEN what happens to these dogs.
remember that we work with alot of these facilities.

when someone does little or no research and supports a ban as if its no big thing, it drives me out of my mind like not many things do.

these dogs are part of our family, and if they werent, they'd likely be dead simply because of their breed.
its the EXACT same thing humans do with racism towards eachother.

if i post a story about another white serial killer, does that mean we should kill all the whities?
if i post a story of two black men robbing a liquor store does that mean we should kill all the black people?
when some middle eastern nut cases hijack planes and crash them into buildings, does that mean everyone from the middle east needs to be killed?

whats happening with pitbulls (a generic term anyway) here and in alot of other parts of this country is absolutely HORRIBLE, and people that support it (especially with little or no knowledge of the issue) make me so angry its hard to control.

im sorry i flew off the handle as much as i did, but our dogs are part of our family, and when people advocate killing them ONLY because of their breed, we get a little upset.

jake

[orange 4 life]

they are not singling out one breed that is were they will start I had my house insurence cancled for my golden retrievers then to get insurence I had to pay neary double and these dogs you could beat to death and they would lick you the whole time you was doing this the pit bull is the start!!!! also kids will tease dogs and I dont care what you say pit bulls should not be around children for this reason !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so deal with it .

im not sure i even understand your point?
deal with what?

for the 3rd time, go to www.dogbreedinfo.com (or any other neutral website) and do some research.
pitbulls arent the problem.
they are in the BEST category as far as reliability with strangers and kids.
deal with it.

[bendog]

Was this it?









http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8239/uglydog12mt.jpg
no, but ahhhh, what IS that?

btw, I was doing a bit of looking back and found this. Somewhat on topic

http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icormskirk/news/tm_objectid=16709439&method=full&siteid

[orange 4 life]

Although Pit Bulls are not listed, Staffordshires are, and honestly I'm not sure what the distinction is, between them. I've assumed that pits are "something" with Staffordshire and other breeding mixed in. Maybe I'm wrong. But, this site is the best I've found for links to breed info. Under each breed's result page, there is a link under each specific animal to a brief description of the breed standards, and that page will have a link to the American club on that specific breed.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2006/results/breed/index.html

But, if you want a couch potatoe (-:, you could go to the rescue league and ask them to bring out the laziest friedliest pooch of the size you're looking for. If not for the cat, I'd do that. I cannot afford anymore animals. I cannot even afford the cat. But then, Henry's not an alpha type, but he gets jealous of other dogs, so I don't see how I could introduce another now.

staffy's are a different breed, but fall into the overall "pitbull" umbrella i mentioned earlier.
american pitbull terriers, bull terriers, staffordshire terriers, and bulldogs (of many varieties) are ALL dogs listed as "pitbulls" under these horrible laws.

our family has two american pitbull terriers, which is the specific breed that "petie" was, as well as helen kellers dog.
i think theyre all good dogs, though staffordshires and bull terriers dont rate quite as well (2nd tier according to pretty much everyone, which is still very good) as american pitbull terriers.
ironically, its the staffys and bull terriers that are mostly THOUGHT of as "pitbulls", because theyre the ones with the widest set legs and widest head.

american pitbull terriers by and large cannot be recognized by many casual observers unless they have their ears clipped.

[bendog]

no offense intended, it's just that while I've found mention to a breed "pit bull" on various sites, it's not on the AKC site, while Staffordshires, which I have no knowledge of, and the bull terriers, are listed.

Nonetheless, there has to be a reason these poor dogs are favored by people who fight dogs. I'd agree though that if the politicians and people who put energy into banning a breed would put the same effort into making very draconian laws to financially ruin and long term jail people who not only train fighting dogs but who go to dog fights, it'd prolly help keep people from getting chewed up.

[orange 4 life]

Where is all this crap about labs coming from??? The worst breed out there is Doberman Pinscher followed closely by Dalmations. Labs are among the most loving, I know, I own one!

i would argue that dalmations are worse than dobeys, but by and large have better owners so it doesnt always seem that way.

regardless, both those breeds you mentioned do have some issues, and one would need to be extremely cautious with children and strangers.

as for the labs, i love them too. great dogs. heck, we have one.
my point was SIMPLY that our lab has bitten people before, and was just recently booted from the vets office for trying to bite him. neither of the pits have EVER bitten anyone. not even a snap, which is pretty normal for all dogs.
also, labs came up when alec correctly pointed out that the largest number of reported dog bites are from labs.
should we ban them too?
of couse not.

we should SIMPLY tighten the laws (and increase the punishment) regarding VICIOUS dogs, and specifically state (as douglas county law does) that a vicious dog is determined PURELY on the ACTIONS of the dog as opposed to the breed of the dog.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

no, but ahhhh, what IS that?

btw, I was doing a bit of looking back and found this. Somewhat on topic

http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icormskirk/news/tm_objectid=16709439&method=full&siteid


That's Sam, the world's ugliest dog. Sadly, sam passed away last year.
http://tinyurl.com/83ckn

[Bronco_Beerslug]

i owe you an apology, so here it is. im sorry.

that said, this issue is one too close to my heart, and ive SEEN what happens to these dogs.
remember that we work with alot of these facilities.

when someone does little or no research and supports a ban as if its no big thing, it drives me out of my mind like not many things do.

these dogs are part of our family, and if they werent, they'd likely be dead simply because of their breed.
its the EXACT same thing humans do with racism towards eachother.

if i post a story about another white serial killer, does that mean we should kill all the whities?
if i post a story of two black men robbing a liquor store does that mean we should kill all the black people?
when some middle eastern nut cases hijack planes and crash them into buildings, does that mean everyone from the middle east needs to be killed?

whats happening with pitbulls (a generic term anyway) here and in alot of other parts of this country is absolutely HORRIBLE, and people that support it (especially with little or no knowledge of the issue) make me so angry its hard to control.

im sorry i flew off the handle as much as i did, but our dogs are part of our family, and when people advocate killing them ONLY because of their breed, we get a little upset.

jake

I wasn't looking for one but apology accepted. And I never advocate killing dogs because they might be one breed or the other. My arguments in the other threads in favor of them being banned in sprawling, urban communities was more to do with so many of them not being handled and monitored correctly by their owners.

[bendog]

RIP Sam.

[orange 4 life]

no offense intended, it's just that while I've found mention to a breed "pit bull" on various sites, it's not on the AKC site, while Staffordshires, which I have no knowledge of, and the bull terriers, are listed.

Nonetheless, there has to be a reason these poor dogs are favored by people who fight dogs. I'd agree though that if the politicians and people who put energy into banning a breed would put the same effort into making very draconian laws to financially ruin and long term jail people who not only train fighting dogs but who go to dog fights, it'd prolly help keep people from getting chewed up.

oh none taken bendog. just trying to explain it to you, since many people are confused.
when the umbrella term "pitbull" applies to so many breeds it gets tough for people to decipher.

there is definately a reason these breeds are favored by people who want to have dogfights, and that reason is simple.
these dogs were originally bred for only two things.
1) to be a companion to humans, and
2) to fight. other DOGS. must be clear there.

they are strong, fast, and have very strong jaws.
they are amazing in their strength. my older pit can jump a six foot fence without a running start.
thats the sad thing here.
these ASSHOLES get their hands on them and fight them. they starve them, abuse them, and neglect them, and when that happens who knows how the animal will react.
still other people hear the rumors about the dogs, and think it would be "cool" to have a dog like that.
they have NO concept of the affection and attention these dogs need, so they tie them up in the yard and again, who knows how the dog will react.

these dogs BREATHE human attention, so to deprive them of that confuses them and causes them (as it does any dog) to become unpredictable.

like popps said, having a pitbull in your family is a big responsibility.
they CAN be aggressive towards other dogs (which means you need to spend the time when theyre pups to teach them otherwise), they CAN jump six foot fences (so you need to be cautious or you could lose them), they are EXTREMELY emotional (theyll often pout a half day after being disciplined), and they want constant attention from you, so you better have time to cuddle with them or theyll be depressed all day.

the reward is that they will NEVER show ANY aggression to ANY humans, they will be a 50-100+ pound lap dog, they will rarely if ever bark, they are extremely smart, and they are AMAZINGLY cute in their efforts to imitate you. our dogs are hysterical in their attempts to act human. they try and sit up on 2 legs, they lay under blankets and with their heads on pillows, they watch television (my older one LOVES to watch football. daddys boy ;D ), and they love to spoon.

as a person thats dealt with most all breeds out there, i can say with 100% certainty that the payoff is well worth it, and there isnt another breed of dog i would trust more.

jake

[bendog]

but bitbulls do bite people, sometimes. I agree any breed of dog has examples of dogs who bite people. Though mixed breeds tend to have a greater % of bites "per dog," I think. Or maybe there are just more mutts. Springer Spaniels had quite a few who had to be put down when a rogue mutation produced "sudden rage syndrome."

The point with pit bulls is that when they do bite humans, the bites tend to be more severe.

Or are you saying that the breed "american pit bull" will not bite, and reports of "pitbulls" biting people are actually dogs that while they may have some american pit bull bloodline, are in reality mixed breed. (not that I don't like mixed breeds, I do)

[DrFate]

Personal experience with Greenies:

Our family pet is a 120 pound black lab. I got him some Greenies because I saw them in the Food Lion and they said they clean teeth.

He ate one (or two) around Christmas and started acting real funny. He dragged his back end around for several days and acted like he was constipated. He wouldn't eat right (he normally eats everything) and was lethargic. I fed him some prunes (I figured it works for people) and eventually he passed his problem - and has been fine since.

I never put 2 and 2 together until I saw the CNN article on the Greenies. I think he probably didn't chew them real well and he got 'stopped up' for a time. We threw the rest out this week.

[bendog]

Personal experience with Greenies:

Our family pet is a 120 pound black lab. I got him some Greenies because I saw them in the Food Lion and they said they clean teeth.

He ate one (or two) around Christmas and started acting real funny. He dragged his back end around for several days and acted like he was constipated. He wouldn't eat right (he normally eats everything) and was lethargic. I fed him some prunes (I figured it works for people) and eventually he passed his problem - and has been fine since.

I never put 2 and 2 together until I saw the CNN article on the Greenies. I think he probably didn't chew them real well and he got 'stopped up' for a time. We threw the rest out this week.
You've given me an idea. I wonder if I could dress them up like girl scout cookies and bring them to my office and leave them in the break room.

[REB]

You've given me an idea. I wonder if I could dress them up like girl scout cookies and bring them to my office and leave them in the break room.

Hilarious! Go get'em ben Ha!

1-2-3 :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[orange 4 life]

but bitbulls do bite people, sometimes. I agree any breed of dog has examples of dogs who bite people. Though mixed breeds tend to have a greater % of bites "per dog," I think. Or maybe there are just more mutts. Springer Spaniels had quite a few who had to be put down when a rogue mutation produced "sudden rage syndrome."

The point with pit bulls is that when they do bite humans, the bites tend to be more severe.

Or are you saying that the breed "american pit bull" will not bite, and reports of "pitbulls" biting people are actually dogs that while they may have some american pit bull bloodline, are in reality mixed breed. (not that I don't like mixed breeds, I do)

thats part of the point bendog.

the term "pitbull" is so misleading, since it can encompass such a HUGE variety of dogs.
i of course acknowledge that ALL breeds of dogs can and do have isolated incidences of bites, and i also acknowledge that pitbull bites can be more severe than most other breeds.

that said, USUALLY what you here reported as a "pitbull attack" is either a mixed breed (mixed with a larger animal which can change the temperment) or not even a pitbull at all. its just a better story.

even the american pitbull terrier of course CAN bite a human, and im sure there are RARE cases where it happens, but FOR THE MOST PART, a pure bred american pitbull terrier simply will never bite a human.
its COMPLETELY counter to their breeding and temperment.
like any dog, if theyre abused and neglected its anyones guess, and unfortunately more of these dogs are in fact abused and neglected.

i would also add that staffordshires and bull terriers (again, these two breeds are whats generally accepted as "pitbulls" because of the recognizeable legs) score lower than american pitbulls in all the tests for temperment.
they still score very well mind you, but a notch below.

when you mix a staffordshire with a shepherd (fairly typical) you have a dog that REALLY needs good training, and a dog that in my eyes BARELY even qualifies as a "pitbull".
the combination of shepherd makes them larger and apparently better fighters, but if not trained properly from birth also makes them potentially unpredictable.

add it all up and there's simply NO way to justify banning dogs simply for breed.
especially not when ALL of the evidence (and i mean ALL the evidence) shows that the specific breed american pitbull terrier is in point of FACT one of the most gentle breeds there is.

[orange 4 life]

and slug,

i would definately discuss pitbulls all day on another specifically designated thread, but i figured at this point there's no need to go way back and reopen and old one.
i would kinda like to see what a poll would say, but we've covered some stuff here and since the dog treat info is out there, i guess i just figure the hijacking of the thread isnt much of an issue.

ill look for other threads and of course respond when they come up.

its one of my missions in life to try and educate people on the breed(s) and the horrible profiling and misunderstandings that are taking place, so ill take any opportunity to hopefully get through to someone.

every dog i help get adopted is one less dog that could get killed.

[watermock]

You've given me an idea. I wonder if I could dress them up like girl scout cookies and bring them to my office and leave them in the break room.

You should of gotten an old valentines box and wrapped them in candy foil...

"Gee Ben...I didn't know you felt this way...."

Ben: "Well your going to find out in about 5 days..."