Is Priest Holmes Hall of Fame Material?

[El Minion]

This was posted in a Fantasy Football BB that I'm a member in and I just said no that with his current stats which are similiar to TD, as an example, but not league leading and they never led to a title. I finished that if he does get in then everyone in Broncoland will riot because TD is more deserving.

I know this has been bantered about but below was my response, any additional ammunitions on rebuttals would be appreciated:

TD from his 2nd to 4th season he was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd in all major rushing categories:

Seasons among the league's top 10

Rushes: 1996-3, 1997-2, 1998-2
Rushing yards: 1995-9, 1996-2, 1997-2, 1998-1
Rushing TDs: 1996-3t, 1997-1t, 1998-1
Yards from scrimmage: 1996-2, 1997-2, 1998-2
Rush/Receive TDs: 1996-3t, 1997-2, 1998-1

Source (http://www.profootballreference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm)

And he rushed over a 1000 yards his rookie year, that's 4 straight years over 1000 to go with his two SB titles. What other RB can claim titles with that offensive production? Only Emmit Smith, and after his '95 (and last) title, he never did lead the league in any major statistical category. Yeah he was productive but it shows that true difference making (HOF making) RB have a shorter window to prove greatness.

Originally posted by streetsmart:
The reason he doesnt get in is the name OLANDIS GARY! He had a monster year shortly after TD's injuries took over and that is super telling about the system. The system will hurt TD's chances to get into the hall of fame.

I think the flip side helps TD. How many years did Gary produce in that system? Or any other RB post-TD? I think it shows the talent scouting of the Shanahan/Denver organization that they can find young productive backs, just that they weren’t TD caliber. Do we discount the career and HOF credentials of Roger Staubach (ONE title) because Danny White was productive in the Tom Landry/Dallas system? No. What about Steve Young (ONE title) in the Walsh/SF WC system? His best years (leading the league like TD, Emmit) all seem to be just 4 out of his 15-year career. Jeff Garcia was pretty good there after he left (3 Pro Bowls).

Terrell Davis for the Hall of Fame!!

[Pat Bowlen]

This is a pretty pointless thread. All it did was make me sigh and think of what Terrell's career would have looked like had he not blown out his knee.

[ludo21]

This is a pretty pointless thread. All it did was make me sigh and think of what Terrell's career would have looked like had he not blown out his knee.


yeah, tis depressing. Man, really does start to sink in on how great a RB we really did have.

[-Slap-]

Do they have a Hall of Fame for gayness? If so, Priest should be a first ballot lock.

[Pat Bowlen]

yeah, tis depressing. Man, really does start to sink in on how great a RB we really did have.
What's a realistic projection of where he'd be right now had he stayed healthy?

I think 15,000 yards and 120 TDs is the least he would have been able to accomplish.

[ludo21]

What's a realistic projection of where he'd be right now had he stayed healthy?

I think 15,000 yards and 120 TDs is the least he would have been able to accomplish.


What yardage did he end at? Yeah, i say 15k would be very plausible, even with a slight decline of around 1100 yards a year.

[Pat Bowlen]

At the beginning of the '99 season Terrell had about 6,500 yards rushing and 58 TDs. Assuming he played the next seven years and averaged around 1,250 yards and 9 TDs he would end up with the career numbers above.

Anybody else think that TD would have averaged well over 1,250 and 9 a season providing he stayed healthy?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

No. And neither is Terrell Davis.

[12th man]

At the beginning of the '99 season Terrell had about 6,500 yards rushing and 58 TDs. Assuming he played the next seven years and averaged around 1,250 yards and 9 TDs he would end up with the career numbers above.

Anybody else think that TD would have averaged well over 1,250 and 9 a season providing he stayed healthy?
I would say it would be pretty colse. If he stayed he would probably slowed down a little bit because that come with age. but it would be pretty close to those numbers.

[2KBack]

one man would help the other, but that probably means niether will get in.

I did a projection for TD by using our starting backs stats, it was well over 15,000yds.

[-Slap-]

At the beginning of the '99 season Terrell had about 6,500 yards rushing and 58 TDs. Assuming he played the next seven years and averaged around 1,250 yards and 9 TDs he would end up with the career numbers above.

Anybody else think that TD would have averaged well over 1,250 and 9 a season providing he stayed healthy?
Staying healthy was going to be difficult, given his running style. He had so many touches between 96-98, especially when you add in the post season games, and he ran so hard. I think he might have had a chance for a longer career if we had a better backup on the squad, but he really burnt himself out in that brilliant three year stretch. The multiple and sometimes hard to diagnose injuries following the ACL were a byproduct of overwork.

[Pat Bowlen]

I would say it would be pretty colse. If he stayed he would probably slowed down a little bit because that come with age. but it would be pretty close to those numbers.
Regardless of the QBs after John, we've always ran well. I think Terrell could have easily averaged 1,300-1,400 yards a season, if not more.

[12th man]

No. And neither is Terrell Davis.

TD could but it will be a long time. When he gets in he'll be one of those olds guys,like the two other people that went in with Elway and Sanders. How could you not let a 2000 yd rusher, superbowl mvp, and league mvp in? he will get in, it will just be a long long time.

[2KBack]

Staying healthy was going to be difficult, given his running style. He had so many touches between 96-98, especially when you add in the post season games, and he ran so hard. I think he might have had a chance for a longer career if we had a better backup on the squad, but he really burnt himself out in that brilliant three year stretch. The multiple and sometimes hard to diagnose injuries following the ACL were a byproduct of overwork.

if he had managed to stay healthy enough to break 10,000 I think he would be a lock.

[12th man]

Regardless of the QBs after John, we've always ran well. I think Terrell could have easily averaged 1,300-1,400 yards a season, if not more.

I don't know the true stat but we probably ran the ball more after john left. but yeah, your about right with the 1300-1400 yrd range. If he would have stayed healty, we would have had so much more depth at rb.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

TD could but it will be a long time. When he gets in he'll be one of those olds guys,like the two other people that went in with Elway and Sanders. How could you not let a 2000 yd rusher, superbowl mvp, and league mvp in? he will get in, it will just be a long long time.

Nope. You need to be great for a long time to be a hall of famer. One season doesn't cut it.

[12th man]

Nope. You need to be great for a long time to be a hall of famer. One season doesn't cut it.

Time is the only thing holding him back. that's why he won't get in early. But he has a shot with his mvp's and 2000yrds, and he's up there in yards in the post season as well.

[Pat Bowlen]

Nope. You need to be great for a long time to be a hall of famer. One season doesn't cut it.
Yeah. If only that 2,000 yard season wasn't the only accolade he accumulated...

[Pat Bowlen]

he's up there in yards in the post season as well.
TD averaged 142.5 yards, 1.5 TDs and 5.6ypc in the playoffs.

[El Minion]

This is a pretty pointless thread. All it did was make me sigh and think of what Terrell's career would have looked like had he not blown out his knee.

If you and others don't take up the cause and champion his candidacy, then yes he will never get it. The talk of his HOF credentials soon after his career ended speaks to how special his talents and accomplishments where. No rah rah stuff, just consistent defense (or offense) on his accomplishment and frequent mention for HOF consideration. Then, just like Harry Carson, TD will be enshrined.

[El Minion]

TD averaged 142.5 yards, 1.5 TDs and 5.6ypc in the playoffs.

Exactly! He produced when it counted.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Time is the only thing holding him back. that's why he won't get in early. But he has a shot with his mvp's and 2000yrds, and he's up there in yards in the post season as well.

He won't get in at all.

You're talking about a guy with 3 1,000 yard seasons and 1 2,000 yard season.

Simply put...not enough.

[Clockwork Orange]

TD averaged 142.5 yards, 1.5 TDs and 5.6ypc in the playoffs.

That's the thing that probably gets overlooked the most about TD, he was money in the postseason. I still wonder what could have been had the Broncos not abandoned the run in the '96 playoff game against Jacksonville. He had 91 yards on 14 carries, the only playoff game of the eight he played in that he didn't eclipse 100 yards.

Even in Super Bowl XXXIII when the Falcons defensive game plan was to shut him down, he managed 102 yards on 25 carries. Not bad considering that Elway also threw for 336 yards that day.

The Broncos playoff record with TD in the lineup was 7-1. Simply amazing. Hall of Fame or not, TD accomplished more in four years than most backs ever will.

[SoCalBronco]

He won't get in at all.

You're talking about a guy with 3 1,000 yard seasons and 1 2,000 yard season.

Simply put...not enough.

Funny how you characterize a 1750 yd. season and a 1600 yd. season as a "1,000 yard season".

Im sure it was just an oversight that you forgot to mention highest playoff yds per game ever.

[sirhcyennek81]

TD has better numbers then Gale Sayers, who is in the hall of fame...

:Broncos:

[sirhcyennek81]

1995: 1,117
1996: 1,538
1997: 1,750
1998: 2,008

No back was more dominant in a 4 year stretch then TD. Ever in the NFL. If I recall, TD also owns several NFL records for most 100 yard games in the post season, td's in a postseason and total yardage in a season (reg and post season). But hey, Gary came in and ran for 1,000. its the system...Bob, you seriously are an ass clown.

:Broncos:

[-Slap-]

That's the thing that probably gets overlooked the most about TD, he was money in the postseason. I still wonder what could have been had the Broncos not abandoned the run in the '96 playoff game against Jacksonville. He had 91 yards on 14 carries, the only playoff game of the eight he played in that he didn't eclipse 100 yards.

This is what I recall: Our first touchdown was scored by Vaughn Hebron. TD clearly got into the end zone on a previous play, but paid off Red Cashion ruled him short of the end zone. TD twisted his knee on the next carry and Hebron came into the ballgame. This sequence, along with the ridiculous pass interference call that negated Torry James interception, and the BS call against MDP have me convinced Red found a bag of money in his backyard the night before that game.

You know why the NFL hates Vegas so much? They're scared to death about what the Gaming Commission investigators in this town could tell them about their sport. The same people who have detected and exposed virtually every college basketball scandal of the last 20 years.

[-Slap-]

1995: 1,117
1996: 1,538
1997: 1,750
1998: 2,008

No back was more dominant in a 4 year stretch then TD. Ever in the NFL. If I recall, TD also owns several NFL records for most 100 yard games in the post season, td's in a postseason and total yardage in a season (reg and post season). But hey, Gary came in and ran for 1,000. its the system...Bob, you seriously are an ass clown.

:Broncos:
I would say Earl Campbell's first three seasons were the most dominating performance ever by a running back, but TD's three year run from 96-98 was just about as good.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Funny how you characterize a 1750 yd. season and a 1600 yd. season as a "1,000 yard season".

Im sure it was just an oversight that you forgot to mention highest playoff yds per game ever.

Sorry...4 great years does not a HOFer make. It's simply ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

[Kaylore]

Sorry...4 great years does not a HOFer make. It's simply ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
Didn't you suggest TrInt should go to the HOF? Why yes! Yes you did!

[Clockwork Orange]

Didn't you suggest TrInt should go to the HOF? Why yes! Yes you did!

You can't be serious. Not even Bob lives that far up his own ass.

[watermock]

This is a pretty pointless thread. All it did was make me sigh and think of what Terrell's career would have looked like had he not blown out his knee.

Little known fact: it was his other knee that forced his retirement.

[toad]

I've got to say, sadly, that I don't think TD will get in. I don't think that [essentially] 3 great years justifies the HoF.

Would I love TD in the Hall? Of course. Realistically do I think he'll get in? Most likely not.

His legacy will forever be tainted by a short career. And, as others have mentioned, I do believe our system to produce great backs may taint him as well.

On to Priest....I don't think he gets in either. Much for the same reasons as TD.

Priest, for 3 years, was a dominant as any RB could be. A 1600+ yard season, a 1500+ yard season, and a 1400+ yard season with an amazing 56 combined TDs. BUT he's had a very quiet career other than those 3 years and due to his slow start in Baltimore he may seem to some as a product of the KC system and OL.

A brief time in the spotlight just doesn't bode well for longevity of greatness.

Playing devils advocate and going off similiar logic, would Portis be a HoF candidate now if he got injured? You could argue he's been clearly dominant for 4 years. He has three 1500+ yard seasons and a 1300+ yard season with 44 TDs. He was Rookie of the Year and a Pro Bowler. Sure he doesn't have the ring or glitzy playoff record but, team-wise, he hasn't been in the right place at the right time (he was with us during some rebuilding and the beginning of Jake's Bronco career and has been with the Skins in very much a rebuilding and the beginning of Gibbs second tenure).

On somewhat the same logic is Jamal Lewis a candidate? He's had two 1300+ yard season and a 2000+ yard season with 28 TDs combined those 3 seasons. Jamal has a ring and put up a fine performance in the postseason and Super Bowl (100+ yards and a TD). Throw in another 1000 yard season last year in which he missed time with consider he set the single-game rushing record.

[DrFate]

TD has better numbers then Gale Sayers, who is in the hall of fame...
:Broncos:

This is a great point. We had this discussion in the office last week:

Davis' numbers are clearly superior to Sayers. If you like what people do on a per year basis, Davis has better numbers than Emmitt Smith. The question is how much is longevity worth?

T. Davis
78 games
1655 carries
7607 yards
60 TDs

G. Sayers
7 years / 68 games
991 attempts
4956 rushing yards
39 rushing TDs

Yards/game:
Davis: 97.52
Smith: 81.21
Sayers: 72.89

Yards/carry:
Davis: 4.59
Smith: 4.16
Sayers: 5

Rushing TDs/game:
Davis:.77
Smith: .73
Sayers: .57

Sayers also returned kicks:

91 kick returns
2781 yards (30.6 average)
6 TDs

If longevity DOES mean something (which I think it does), then why isn't Art Monk in??

[jonny1]

If longevity DOES mean something (which I think it does), then why isn't Art Monk in??

Because the HOF voters have their collective heads up their a$$es.

Gary Zimmerman is another example.

[Orange_Beard]

No-way. Priest was not great long enough.
I would not even say he was "great", no hardware.

[Orange_Beard]

This board is called " Is Priest Holmes Hall of Fame Material?"

[ZachKC]

No-way. Priest was not great long enough.
I would not even say he was "great", no hardware.
What are your feelings on Barry Sanders?

[Master___Pain]

What are your feelings on Barry Sanders?

You mean arguably the best RB ever? He's pretty good, was the best for about ten years.

[ZachKC]

You mean arguably the best RB ever? He's pretty good, was the best for about ten years.
I agree, but according to another user he isn't great because he doesn't have hardware.

[maven]

Priest is not HOF material!

End of discussion.

[Darkhawk24]

I agree, but according to another user he isn't great because he doesn't have hardware.


Of course there are exceptions to the rule. KC is having a hard enough time getting DT into the hall of fame. He is considered the best Chief in quite some time. Football's HOF is pretty hard to get into.

[Orange_Beard]

More then numbers, when you think about a period of time ( not sure how long that period should be, thats another debate.) ask yourself "who was the best back of that time"

I think you can argue that TD was "the best back for a 3 year period" One could argue he was the "best offensive player in the league for 2 years".

That is going by numbers/hardware and having watched him play. Seeing him live was a differnt thing. TV did not do him justice. Seeing him live you could see he was better then anyother player on the field.
Smoother, faster, great balance, so powerful.
You can argue about total yards, total td's ,40 times, bench reps, numbers of all sorts. But when TD was on the field you could see he was the best palyer on the field.
To me he was truly GREAT.

[Orange_Beard]

What are your feelings on Barry Sanders?


Name another player on the Lions "O"when Barry played. They were SUCH a crappy team.

Guy was a game changer. Best in the league for quite a few years.

[ZachKC]

Name another player on the Lions "O"when Barry played. They were SUCH a crappy team.

Guy was a game changer. Best in the league for quite a few years.
So we are in agreement that hardware is a big thing but shouldn't be the end all deal breaker in any player's consideration.

[ZachKC]

I don't think either of the players should be in the hall.

[Orange_Beard]

"I agree, but according to another user he isn't great because he doesn't have hardware."

If you are refering to my post, I did not say "he isn't great because he doesn't have hardware"

I think it can be a factor. If a guy is GREAT, HOF'er should'nt that naturally lead to hardware? If a guy can dominate a game, take over a game, should not his team win?

That is my point.

[Rock Chalk]

He won't get in at all.

You're talking about a guy with 3 1,000 yard seasons and 1 2,000 yard season.

Simply put...not enough.
2 Superbowl rings, best playoff RB ever, SB MVP, League MVP.

No, thats not enough.

[DrFate]

More then numbers, when you think about a period of time ( not sure how long that period should be, thats another debate.) ask yourself "who was the best back of that time"

I agree with this for the most part. I always ask myself 'was this guy considered a premier player for a time in his sport'.

People like Raffy Palmerio are the opposite. He was never considered 'the best' or even ' one of the best' during his time. McGwire, Thomas, McGriff, etc. were, at one point or another during Raffy's career. Raffy just played forever at a high level and never got hurt.

Some people vote the 'he was good for a long time' over 'he was great for a shorter time'. Dale Murphy won back-to-back MVPs and was a great player, but only for a short time.

I certainly think Davis has more of a case than Priest. He was dominant for 3 or 4 years. But I have always felt he wouldn't get in.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

2 Superbowl rings, best playoff RB ever, SB MVP, League MVP.

No, thats not enough.

Nope.

[Northman]

TD could but it will be a long time. When he gets in he'll be one of those olds guys,like the two other people that went in with Elway and Sanders. How could you not let a 2000 yd rusher, superbowl mvp, and league mvp in? he will get in, it will just be a long long time.


Problem is a guy like Timmy Smith was a Super Bowl MVP and yet i dont see him getting in at all. I would love to see TD get in but i just dont see it happening.

[Northman]

I agree, but according to another user he isn't great because he doesn't have hardware.


I think had Priest started his career with the Chiefs instead of the Ravens he would have had a good shot.

[DontBeMessin]

No... LT maybe... but, Priest - hell no!

[ZachKC]

I think had Priest started his career with the Chiefs instead of the Ravens he would have had a good shot.
I agree with that. With a little bit more injury luck I think he could have an outside based on his time with KC...

[Orange_Beard]

I agree with that. With a little bit more injury luck I think he could have an outside based on his time with KC...


This is the same thing we say about TD.

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