Ford devloping f150 Hybrid - Sounds almost too good to be true

[Garcia Bronco]

Fm CP

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=135677



http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/hydraulichybrid.html

Ford is developing a new form of automotive propulsion, and the implications for the American Auto Industry are huge. The Hydraulic Hybrid could be the greatest innovation since the internal combustion engine itself, and Ford is on the inside track with its F-150 Hybrid. New Tech Spy Has learned details about the system that are simply amazing and could put Ford in a commanding position in the fiercely competitive full size pickup market.
---The Idea behind the current crop of Hybrid cars is well known; the cars main energy comes from gasoline which recharges batteries that move the car at low speeds. Hydraulic Hybrids work in the same manner, only instead of batteries, excess energy is stored in hydraulic cylinders.That in itself is not revolutionary, except for the fact that Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used today are not an efficient way to store energy, and hydraulic storage blows them away with 3X the efficiency. Even next generation Lithium Ion batteries do not come close to Hydraulic Energy Storage.
---The standard F-150 has a curb weight of about 4800 lbs., which is 65% greater than theToyota Prius, yet incredibly the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, that’s an amazing 400% increase over its gasoline version.
---The F-150 makes for a perfect host for Hydraulic Hybrid technology because of its height and body on frame construction, adding this system to smaller vehicles will be challenging, but with those kind of numbers small vehicles as we know them may become obsolete...The Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008, can Ford work out all the bugs by then? The people are waiting for Ford to come through in the clutch.

[Mile High Shack]

for the low-low price of 60K probably...lol

[KipCorrington25]

BMW needs to come out with one of these hybrids. I'm loyal to them.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Too massive to be used in regular vehicles.

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EPA Announces Partnership to Demonstrate World's First Full Hydraulic Hybrid Urban Delivery Vehicle

EPA420-F-05-006, February 2005
Download PDF version of this Fact Sheet formatted for print. (1 page, 133K PDF, About PDF Files)

* EPA has announced a new partnership to show the benefits of EPA’s full hydraulic hybrid technology for urban pick-up and delivery fleets. This unique technology is based on numerous EPA pioneering hybrid patents.

* EPA and its partner, Eaton Corporation – Fluid Power, will fabricate EPA’s new and innovative integrated hydraulic rear-drive for a United Parcel Service (UPS) package vehicle.

* The members contributing to this exciting partnership include: EPA, Eaton Corporation – Fluid Power, UPS, International Truck and Engine Corporation, U.S. Army – National Automotive Center, and Morgan-Olson.

* Hydraulic hybrid technology that will be used in the UPS demonstration vehicle:
o Uses a hydraulic energy storage and propulsion system (versus a battery system in electric hybrids)
o Captures and stores a large fraction of the energy normally wasted in vehicle braking
o Uses this energy to help propel the vehicle during the next vehicle acceleration
o Enables the engine to operate more efficiently when it is needed

* The demonstration UPS package vehicle will include:
o Two power sources to operate the vehicle - the EPA Clean Diesel Combustion engine and hydraulic hybrid components
o Full hydraulic hybrid technology that replaces the conventional drivetrain with a hydraulic drivetrain and eliminates the need for a transmission
o Primary hydraulic components consisting of two hydraulic accumulator vessels, one engine hydraulic pump, and one integrated rear-drive hydraulic pump-motor assembly

* Clean Diesel Combustion technology is the combination of several innovative improvements in diesel fuel injection system performance, reoptimization and refinement of air management/turbocharging systems, and an improved combustion system – creating a diesel engine capable of meeting the 2010 NOx standards without NOx aftertreatment.

* The EPA’s advanced technology in the UPS demonstration vehicle is targeted to achieve:
o 60-70 percent better fuel economy
o 2010 heavy-duty vehicle NOx standard
o Ability to recoup additional cost for new hydraulic hybrid technology in less than 3 years

For further information contact Jeff Alson, phone: (734) 214-4296, email: alson.jeff@epa.gov

http://tinyurl.com/avtkt

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9656/hh0gn.png

[Rascal]

I work with Eaton (who bought out Vickers) on a regular basis...those guys at Vickers knew their stuff and they've continued to put out some good stuff since being bought by Eaton.

[Bronx33]

Automotive manufactures need to start making and releasing more environmentally safe cars soon and NOT charge an arm and a leg for em so only the rich can afford not to pollute. I know it's a long way away and money is more important than clean air at this point yet but they really need to start taking it serious. (They need to start with diesels)

[Hotrod]

To bad its ford since IMO they never built a good vehicle with old tech so Im pretty sure they will screw up the new stuff even worse.

[ludo21]

ill pass

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Here's more info on Ford's part............

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http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3156/hh15sw.th.gif (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hh15sw.gif)

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/technology/420f04019.pdf

[Garcia Bronco]

Well...my next vehicle is going to be truck....and something like this appeals to me. I don't know if I'll get a Ford....but the idea sounds great.

[Hotrod]

Well...my next vehicle is going to be truck....and something like this appeals to me. I don't know if I'll get a Ford....but the idea sounds great.

Oh I agree and am all for change. The comment was made for a certain poster 'kind of an inside thing". As far as the current topic Im pretty sure these things will all be priced out of the average persons range. I'll get excited when they roll onto the market at a price people can actually afford.

[Hotrod]

Hey Beerslug and maybe even Garcia you both seem pretty intuned to this stuff. What up with this burning corn thing??? If that works it would seem to be the best route.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Oh I agree and am all for change. The comment was made for a certain poster 'kind of an inside thing". As far as the current topic Im pretty sure these things will all be priced out of the average persons range. I'll get excited when they roll onto the market at a price people can actually afford.
Read that link I posted. Ford says their average per vehicle price increase with this technology would only be around $600.

Ethanol will help too. Everything we can do to move away from oil and gas is a plus.

[Garcia Bronco]

Hey Beerslug and maybe even Garcia you both seem pretty intuned to this stuff. What up with this burning corn thing??? If that works it would seem to be the best route.


Not me...I'm always talking out of my ass.

[Bronx33]

Not me...I'm always talking out of my ass.

Ill vouch for him..........;D

[Hotrod]

Not me...I'm always talking out of my ass.

LOL now there is something we can all agree on ;)

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I drive a F250 powerstroke turbodiesel crew 4x4... gets better milage than any half-ton gas truck and pulls my 24' boat 80mph uphill wihout breaking a sweat. Never had a problem with Ford trucks.

[Hotrod]

I drive a F250 powerstroke turbodiesel crew 4x4... gets better milage than any half-ton gas truck and pulls my 24' boat 80mph uphill wihout breaking a sweat. Never had a problem with Ford trucks.

I'll argue this in two words.......Chevy Duramax :~ohyah!:

[Dr. Broncenstein]

You mean Isuzu powered Chevy

[Orange_Beard]

Who would buy anything from FORD?

[watermock]

This sounds better than the battery hybrid...lighter and more durable. storing energy in hydraulics makes more sense. I never thought of it. You can get hydraulics to do crazy strong things without even blinkin'...

[watermock]

You mean Isuzu powered Chevy

If they didn't have the most idiotic ad compaign of all time, they would of made it in the US...ISUZU is well built. In fact, the Honda Passport is basically an Isuzu.

[baja]

Who would buy anything from FORD?

I have always had good luck with Ford trucks in fact I own two now, a F150 and an F250 but neither have been driven for several months. I have been won over by my Toyota Landcruser.

[watermock]

This hydraulic/CVT transmission has me intrigued...I don't know how you can tow witha rubber belt CVT unless they have a new design. Each year we get more molecular guys making this stuff stronger, but I'm still not trusting a rubber band to pull my boat...my car yes...my HD truck...I'm not sold yet.

[Wes Mantooth]

BMW needs to come out with one of these hybrids. I'm loyal to them.
A few years ago, BMW had a gas/hydrogen engine that would do both. Problem was in was in a 7-series.

[Spider]

Ford = Better idea ...........always has been ,always will be ..........;D

[OrangeShadow]

GMs already built 1.5 million cars that run on 85% ethanol

[Bronco_Beerslug]

GMs already built 1.5 million cars that run on 85% ethanolJust no place to fill em up.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

If they didn't have the most idiotic ad compaign of all time, they would of made it in the US...ISUZU is well built. In fact, the Honda Passport is basically an Isuzu.

Diesel motor by Isuzu or International.... I think I'll take the International, thanks.

[Hotrod]

Just no place to fill em up.

Thats the problem. This idea caught my attention and I would be willing to look seriously into it except where I live I doubt there will be fuel here for years.

[baja]

A friend of mine has a bus that runs on fast food fryer grease

[Raider Bill]

This hydraulic/CVT transmission has me intrigued...I don't know how you can tow witha rubber belt CVT unless they have a new design. Each year we get more molecular guys making this stuff stronger, but I'm still not trusting a rubber band to pull my boat...my car yes...my HD truck...I'm not sold yet.


I don't think it works off a belt like one of those old Hondas, since Peterbilt and Eaton are looking into it.

Cant find a good explanaton of where the gear reduction comes from though.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/10/eaton_and_peter.html

[watermock]

wow...that article says that this system stores 80% of kinetic energy. Perfect for vehicles that are stop and go. (like a refuse truck). No batteries to inevitably fail (and dispose of)...50% less brake wear...

Where was this 20 years ago? Did the patent Exxon bought run out? Hydraulics are not new. Virtually all farm implements utilize hydraulics in one form or another, but obviously not in this manner. For stop and go city traffic this sounds like a real breakthru.

[~Crash~]

This hydraulic/CVT transmission has me intrigued...I don't know how you can tow witha rubber belt CVT unless they have a new design. Each year we get more molecular guys making this stuff stronger, but I'm still not trusting a rubber band to pull my boat...my car yes...my HD truck...I'm not sold yet.

crazy as it sounds belts even wet are stronger than chains, belts last longer with weight on them less wear.

[watermock]

crazy as it sounds belts even wet are stronger than chains, belts last longer with weight on them less wear.

but not gears...hey...I'm all for it if it works. That new Nissan Milano? has a CVT I think.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Just no place to fill em up.

Couldn't you fill up at the liquor store or a moonshine still?

[watermock]

It won't be hard to get them in gas stations. We have a gas station carrying E-85 here and it's only a town of 10k...another E plant is being built nearby.

The problem with E is that it's not all that efficient to produce it...you have fertilizer, corn is draining on soil, you have farming costs, transportation costs...the net gain is only about 25%

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Couldn't you fill up at the liquor store or a moonshine still?
I could but my vehicle can't.

[~Crash~]

for that matter who need all the grades of gas why not get rid of the middle grade and run 85% ethanol

[Bronco_Beerslug]

for that matter who need all the grades of gas why not get rid of the middle grade and run 85% ethanol

Down here, low grade is 87 - 88.

[~Crash~]

there are 3 grades of gass what I am saying is get rid of the middle grade of gas and run 85% ethanol and 15% gas in it's place

[Raider Bill]

there are 3 grades of gass what I am saying is get rid of the middle grade of gas and run 85% ethanol and 15% gas in it's place


Most stations only have 2 tanks, and blend 87 and 93 to arrive at the mid grade. They could probably add another tank with pure ethanol and blend it as it's being pumped with a similar setup.

[Tombstone RJ]

I work with Eaton (who bought out Vickers) on a regular basis...those guys at Vickers knew their stuff and they've continued to put out some good stuff since being bought by Eaton.

Eaton Superchargers? That Eaton?