The Duke on TO

[halfcreek]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_3497947

[rbackfactory80]

I second his opinions

[ludo21]

So all the former players say nay, but all the ACTIVE players say yes, i think ill go with who is on the field now, and trust the decision shanny makes.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

The King has spoken... bow down, b!tches

[Spider]

Love Elway as a QB , but off the field , I sometimes Wonder what Planet he is on

[Odysseus]

Ugly: Elway said Plummer would come around he was right. Sharpe said Plummer sucks and there is no way he can lead this team anywhere. Sharpe gets paid to start crap. Elway doesn't get paid either way. These guys along with TD are really on the same page with this. The problem is if T.O. does become the difference maker and this team does get to the Superbowl AND win and he's on the team I can imagine him in some tear filled interview explaining how nobody believed in him and how much he had to overcome just to become a Bronco.

Good: Does anybody notice how quiet T.O. has been? The money is on the table I wonder how long he can hold out? He's taking some pretty wicked hits and not a peep out of him. Doesn't that count? I'm glad everybody is getting it out of there system. It's good to know where people stand. As long as T.O. keeps his mouth shut he'll be alright but the first time he defends himself EVEN if he's in the right the media is going to crush him.

Bad: T.O. ends up on the Chiefs.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I'm all for him being a Chief... TO and Herm will destroy that team in the span of 9 games.

[Play2win]

I bet if The DUKE was still playing, he would say bring him in, because he could handle any player, TO or not, you know, because he is JOHN ELWAY. Its the ELWAY or the HIGHWAY here (then) in Denver.

All that being said, this is a completely different team, and there is leadership, but nothing like that team. I put ELWAY and JORDAN as the only two players ever (maybe WILT) that you can put whoever on their team Sharpe, Rodman or TO and IT WILL WORK...

But, hey, if JOHN said it, I'm in his corner. What will happen, will happen... but if JOHN said it, let TO go somewhere else...

[-Slap-]

I bet if The DUKE was still playing, he would say bring him in, because he could handle any player, TO or not, you know, because he is JOHN ELWAY. Its the ELWAY or the HIGHWAY here (then) in Denver.

I doubt it. John and Janet Elway raised four children together. He wouldn't be interested in changing some 33 years old's ****ty daipers, too.

[-Slap-]

Ugly: Elway said Plummer would come around he was right. Sharpe said Plummer sucks and there is no way he can lead this team anywhere. Sharpe gets paid to start crap. Elway doesn't get paid either way. These guys along with TD are really on the same page with this. The problem is if T.O. does become the difference maker and this team does get to the Superbowl AND win and he's on the team I can imagine him in some tear filled interview explaining how nobody believed in him and how much he had to overcome just to become a Bronco.

The Bronco aren't going to win a Super Bowl or anything else with that punk.

Good: Does anybody notice how quiet T.O. has been? The money is on the table I wonder how long he can hold out? He's taking some pretty wicked hits and not a peep out of him. Doesn't that count? I'm glad everybody is getting it out of there system. It's good to know where people stand. As long as T.O. keeps his mouth shut he'll be alright but the first time he defends himself EVEN if he's in the right the media is going to crush him.

Believe me, this asshole is keeping track of everything. Once he signs his contract, and has two good games, he'll have plenty to say about every slight, real or perceived.

Bad: T.O. ends up on the Chiefs.

Please send this plague to Kansas City, God.

[BroncoInferno]

The Bronco aren't going to win a Super Bowl or anything else with that punk.

The Eagles would have won the Super Bowl with him if their quarterback had not choked. In fact, if they had won, T.O. would have been the MVP hands down. He almost carried them to that win. Too bad McNabb got a case of Peyton Manning-itis, or T.O. might have pulled it off. If T.O. comes in, then barring a rash of injuries, we'll be right the mix of serious contenders.

[-Slap-]

The Eagles would have won the Super Bowl with him if their quarterback had not choked. In fact, if they had won, T.O. would have been the MVP hands down. He almost carried them to that win. Too bad McNabb got a case of Peyton Manning-itis, or T.O. might have pulled it off. If T.O. comes in, then barring a rash of injuries, we'll be right the mix of serious contenders.
Yeah, you can say that because TO has a fist full of Championship Rings, right? If he was as great as you claim, he would have made a play in the last five minutes to win the game.

He didn't.

Rather than take it like a man, he threw his teammate to the wolves. Glorify him.

[-Slap-]

Oh, and piss on what John Elway has to say about it. Who the **** is he?

"I think there are a lot of things about T.O. that none of us really knows, but obviously he can ruin a football team," Elway said Friday evening. "If it were up to me I would say no. I think the Broncos are close enough anyway, and they don't need a guy who's too much of a risk.

"The Broncos have a great locker room right now; they have a lot of good leaders in there. To have somebody come in who's worried about himself and not worried about what the team is worried about, I wouldn't do it."

[Sassy]

Elway says No...TD says No...even June Jones (heard this on the radio) says he wouldn't have TO on his team.

Listen Mike and Pat!

I think the Broncos are close enough anyway, and they don't need a guy who's too much of a risk.
EXACTLY!

[-Slap-]

So all the former players say nay, but all the ACTIVE players say yes, i think ill go with who is on the field now, and trust the decision shanny makes.
Because the former players were winners. Some members of the current group don't have the heart to get the job done, so they're willing to sell their souls to the devil.

Ever heard the story about The Scorpion and the Frog? (http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html)

[BroncoInferno]

Yeah, you can say that because TO has a fist full of Championship Rings, right? If he was as great as you claim, he would have made a play in the last five minutes to win the game.

He didn't.

Rather than take it like a man, he threw his teammate to the wolves. Glorify him.

How could he make a play when is QB was about to pass out? He probably would have made a play if McNabb had been in any ponsition to get him the ball. WRs don't control the ball enough to be able to determine their teams destiny championship wise, but T.O. came as close as you can from the WR position to carrying his team to victory in a Super Bowl. Too bad McNabb wasn't up to the task.

[-Slap-]

Elway says No...TD says No

Listen Mike and Pat!
Pat doesn't want him, either. This is a MasterMind Production. He finally wiped Daryl Gardener's spit off his face and he's ready for more.

[BroncoInferno]

Oh, and piss on what John Elway has to say about it. Who the **** is he?

When Elway was ringless he would have dragged T.O. into Denver bound and gagged and not let him leave till his signature was on a contract. John knows it, you know it, I know it.

[-Slap-]

How could he make a play when is QB was about to pass out? He probably would have made a play if McNabb had been in any ponsition to get him the ball. WRs don't control the ball enough to be able to determine their teams destiny championship wise, but T.O. came as close as you can from the WR position to carrying his team to victory in a Super Bowl. Too bad McNabb wasn't up to the task.
He probably could have, but he didn't, did he?

He just whined like a ****ing bitch.

Forget that the Patriots were putting the finishing touches on a dynasty. Forget that the Eagles got the ball back on their ten with about a minute left in the game. Just keep fantasizing about the glory that TO didn't get done.

[Sassy]

I think the Broncos are close enough anyway, and they don't need a guy who's too much of a risk.

[-Slap-]

When Elway was ringless he would have dragged T.O. into Denver bound and gagged and not let him leave till his signature was on a contract. John knows it, you know it, I know it.
There you go. Piss all over John Elway to make TO look good. That's what TO is all about, man. Good job.

^5

[BroncoInferno]

He probably could have, but he didn't, did he?

He just whined like a ****ing b****.

Forget that the Patriots were putting the finishing touches on a dynasty. Forget that the Eagles got the ball back on their ten with about a minute left in the game. Just keep fantasizing about the glory that TO didn't get done.

McNabb didn't get it done. TO Can't throw the ball to himself, can he? I bet McNabb can't even remember that last drive.

[BroncoInferno]

There you go. Piss all over John Elway to make TO look good. That's what TO is all about, man. Good job.

^5

I'm not pissing on John. I'm just saying that when he didn't have a ring, he would have been willing to do about anything legal to put the team over the hump. Not really a character fault, just a guy who desperately wanted to know what it was like to be at the top of his profession. I think we can all relate to that.

[-Slap-]

I'm not pissing on John. I'm just saying that when he didn't have a ring, he would have been willing to do about anything legal to put the team over the hump. Not really a character fault, just a guy who desperately wanted to know what it was like to be at the top of his profession. I think we can all relate to that.
I see. Calling John a liar and a hypocrite is your way of showing him respect.

Stick with me, man. I'm still learning the ropes here on Planet TO.

[-Slap-]

The true irony will come when all these threads are played out in real time in the Broncos lockerroom.

I think some people want TO here because winning at any cost is all that matters to them and I think others secretly want to see the circus hit town.

[BroncoInferno]

I see. Calling John a liar and a hypocrite is your way of showing him respect.

Stick with me, man. I'm still learning the ropes here on Planet TO.

LOL Show me where I called him a liar and hypocrite? John probably believes what he says, but if he were to put himself back in the shoes he had on after the Jacksonville game, I think he might see things a little differently. Put those shoes on of the guy everyone said couldn't win the big one, would have a tainted career if he didn't win it. He even said after he retired that he was pretty much full of crap when he would say things like 'as long as I know I did the best I could, I'll be satisfied with my career'. And, anyway, I don'tparticularly care about John Elway in his personal life. He may be a liar and hypocrite for all I know. I deify Elway the player, not Elway the person. Don't know enough about the latter, outside of press clippings, to draw any conclusions.

[BroncoInferno]

I think some people want TO here because winning at any cost is all that matters to them

I alleigned myself with this group. People get too caught up with the personal lives of players, in my opinion. All we can ever really know is what the press clippings say, and with my job I know plenty of folks with sterling images created by the press and a nice smile who are in fact cheating, lying assholes to buy into any of that. I watch football to see great athletes and to root for my team to win. I want the Broncos to win and am willing to take a risk on a great player like T.O.

[-Slap-]

I alleigned myself with this group. People get too caught up with the personal lives of players, in my opinion. All we can ever really know is what the press clippings say, and with my job I know plenty of folks with sterling images created the press and a nice smile who are in fact cheating, lying a-holes to buy into any of that. I watch football to see great athletes and to root for my team to win. I want the Broncos to win and am willing to take a risk on a great player like T.O.
TO's personal life has intruded upon his professional life again and again. Only a blind person can't see that.

[SportinOne]

Yeah, you can say that because TO has a fist full of Championship Rings, right? If he was as great as you claim, he would have made a play in the last five minutes to win the game.

He didn't.

Rather than take it like a man, he threw his teammate to the wolves. Glorify him.

Sort of like the catch he made against Green Bay in the playoffs (while with San Fran). Now if Mcnabb was half the quarterback that Steve Young was he probably could have made a play or two on that last drive. I don't even know why the argument is about TO's ability. The fact that we are even considering bringing him in is a testament to the fact that he's a GREAT player. Not just really good, but one of the best of his generation, and at a position where in a year or two we look downright HORRIBLE at.

Now maybe he only stays one year, but with him we are one of the teams that has a sure shot at the superbowl. No luck involved. If we get it done, we will be there. Same with the Colts. They have the talent to be there they just needed to get it done.

Bring him in.

Elway's words would have mattered if this was 1997, but it's 2006. I'd be surprised if Shanahan is listening to what John is saying.

[BroncoInferno]

TO's personal life has intruded upon his professional life again and again. Only a blind person can't see that.

It has, but 2004 is an example of a season where his team was winning, he was content with his wallet, and he kept his mouth shut and they almost won a SB. I think whatever team signs him will get this TO, at least for one season. As long as there are clauses that will protect us against a relapse (which there doubtless will be), then I am will to roll the dice for a '06 run. Who knows what conditions will be like in '07? '06 may be are best chance to make a run that we will have in the near future.

[BroncoInferno]

TO's personal life has intruded upon his professional life again and again. Only a blind person can't see that.

It has, but 2004 is an example of a season where his team was winning, he was content with his wallet, and he kept his mouth shut and they almost won a SB. I think whatever team signs him will get this TO, at least for one season. As long as there are clauses that will protect us against a relapse (which there doubtless will be), then I am will to roll the dice for a '06 run. Who knows what conditions will be like in '07? '06 may be our best chance to make a run that we will have in the near future.

[Rock Chalk]

I alleigned myself with this group. People get too caught up with the personal lives of players, in my opinion. All we can ever really know is what the press clippings say, and with my job I know plenty of folks with sterling images created by the press and a nice smile who are in fact cheating, lying a-holes to buy into any of that. I watch football to see great athletes and to root for my team to win. I want the Broncos to win and am willing to take a risk on a great player like T.O.
All we really know is from press clippings?

Have you watched TO ever? I mean, seriously. I know plenty about TO and what I know I want no part of.

[Rock Chalk]

Sort of like the catch he made against Green Bay in the playoffs (while with San Fran). Now if Mcnabb was half the quarterback that Steve Young was he probably could have made a play or two on that last drive. I don't even know why the argument is about TO's ability. The fact that we are even considering bringing him in is a testament to the fact that he's a GREAT player. Not just really good, but one of the best of his generation, and at a position where in a year or two we look downright HORRIBLE at.

Now maybe he only stays one year, but with him we are one of the teams that has a sure shot at the superbowl. No luck involved. If we get it done, we will be there. Same with the Colts. They have the talent to be there they just needed to get it done.

Bring him in.

Elway's words would have mattered if this was 1997, but it's 2006. I'd be surprised if Shanahan is listening to what John is saying.
I wouldnt be surprised. For a couple of reasons. John knows what counts for a team to be cohesive and on the same page. John knows the locker room has to be together as one. John owns a football team and built them into a Championship team in a very short while. Clearly, he knows what the **** he is talking about.

[BroncoInferno]

All we really know is from press clippings?

Have you watched TO ever? I mean, seriously. I know plenty about TO and what I know I want no part of.

I'll roll the dice for the '04 TO who kept his mouth shut and helped his team make a run to the Super Bowl. Put behavioral clauses in the deal, and if we get the '05 T.O. instead, then get rid of him. I think whoever gets him will get the '04 T.O. for at least a year.

[BroncoInferno]

I wouldnt be surprised. For a couple of reasons. John knows what counts for a team to be cohesive and on the same page. John knows the locker room has to be together as one. John owns a football team and built them into a Championship team in a very short while. Clearly, he knows what the **** he is talking about.

It's pretty clear that Shanny has already decided to bring TO in. The only question is whether or not he'll be able to. It's doubtful that anything John or TD or TJ says will change his mind at this point.

[Rock Chalk]

It's pretty clear that Shanny has already decided to bring TO in. The only question is whether or not he'll be able to. It's doubtful that anything John or TD or TJ says will change his mind at this point.
I didn't say that. All I said is that I wouldn't be surprised if Shanny listened to John about such matters. John has a firm grasp on what makes a championship caliber team, as much if not more than Shanny as he knows it from a player's perspective, as well as an owner's perspective.

We will not win a SB with TO. I will put 100 bucks on it. I dont want a one year wonder, I want to build a dynasty, and TO will never be part of a dynasty.

[SportinOne]

Here's something i was really thinking about yesterday...

TO came to a team in Philly who had HUGE success in the past few seasons. No superbowl, but the team had alot of experience together. It was like our team is now, only i think our team is a little closer. TO came, and suddenly after two seasons things went bad. Amazing part is, some players from philly were siding with TO!!!

Can you honestly say that if TO came to Denver, and started messing things up, that even ONE player would be on his side? Are you kidding me?? You think Rod's gonna turn on Jake, or Champ is gonna turn on John and Al. NO FREAKING WAY! How it happened in Philly i have NO CLUE. How do you let the new guy come in and cause problems and then decide that your bond with your teamates just isn't important anymore?

To me this says something.. and that is..

The Eagles weren't as close a team as you may have believed. Nobody on the team can really be considered a leader, at least when you are talking about guys like Al Wilson, John Lynch, Champ Bailey, and Jake Plummer. Just because an athlete is a GREAT PLAYER, doesn't mean he's a GREAT LEADER. There may have been 1 or possibly 2 guys that everyone looks up to because of how long they have been there, but nothing like what we have.

Like it or not, if Shanny wants him, he will be ours, he will be ours.

[baja]

I wouldnt be surprised. For a couple of reasons. John knows what counts for a team to be cohesive and on the same page. John knows the locker room has to be together as one. John owns a football team and built them into a Championship team in a very short while. Clearly, he knows what the **** he is talking about.

ya right Shanahan has to go to John to learn those things.


"Hi John, Mike here, tell me do you think locker room chemistry is important?"

[SportinOne]

I didn't say that. All I said is that I wouldn't be surprised if Shanny listened to John about such matters. John has a firm grasp on what makes a championship caliber team, as much if not more than Shanny as he knows it from a player's perspective, as well as an owner's perspective.

We will not win a SB with TO. I will put 100 bucks on it. I dont want a one year wonder, I want to build a dynasty, and TO will never be part of a dynasty.


How much would you bet that we DO win one in the next 5 years WITHOUT TO?

[Rock Chalk]

ya right Shanahan has to go to John to learn those things.


"Hi John, Mike here, tell me do you think locker room chemistry is important?"
You ****ing ignorant dumbass. I never said Mike has to go to John to "learn" any ****ing thing. I said that SHanny would "listen" to John about these things. That no where says that he would learn something (though, he might, everyone can teach everyone something like Im doing to you, you half-witted troll) or even that he would take John's advice, just that he would "listen".

[baja]

You ****ing ignorant dumbass. I never said Mike has to go to John to "learn" any ****ing thing. I said that SHanny would "listen" to John about these things. That no where says that he would learn something (though, he might, everyone can teach everyone something like Im doing to you, you half-witted troll) or even that he would take John's advice, just that he would "listen".

Run out of pot?

[Nuggets4]

Because the former players were winners. Some members of the current group don't have the heart to get the job done, so they're willing to sell their souls to the devil.

Ever heard the story about The Scorpion and the Frog? (http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html)

Quoted for truth.

BTW, any time Alec and Slap agree on something, it's pretty much a given that it's a fact. N.O. to T.O.

[Northman]

So all the former players say nay, but all the ACTIVE players say yes, i think ill go with who is on the field now, and trust the decision shanny makes.


Uh yea.

[Northman]

The Eagles would have won the Super Bowl with him if their quarterback had not choked. In fact, if they had won, T.O. would have been the MVP hands down. He almost carried them to that win. Too bad McNabb got a case of Peyton Manning-itis, or T.O. might have pulled it off. If T.O. comes in, then barring a rash of injuries, we'll be right the mix of serious contenders.


We were already in the mix of contenders but OUR Qb choked.

[Northman]

Elway says No...TD says No...even June Jones (heard this on the radio) says he wouldn't have TO on his team.

Listen Mike and Pat!

I think the Broncos are close enough anyway, and they don't need a guy who's too much of a risk.
EXACTLY!


Post of the year! :thumbsup:

[Northman]

When Elway was ringless he would have dragged T.O. into Denver bound and gagged and not let him leave till his signature was on a contract. John knows it, you know it, I know it.


Your insane. John would of taken any great Wideout but he would have wanted one with more class ( I.E Tim Brown when they attempted to get him ). John would have never wanted a lockeroom cancer like TO, your delusional if you think so.

[Hogan11]

C'mon..John is a has been, his opinion means zero now. What does he know? He's been out of the game for how long now? The Man just doesn't understand modern football players...this team needs turmoil to get to the next level! T.O. will have everyone and every TV talking head talking Broncos almost 24/7! We need loud mouthed, concieted, national stars! Who cares if it blows up the locker room and ruins the team for many years to come? Shanahan is much too old school anyways.

::)

[BroncoInferno]

We were already in the mix of contenders but our Qb choked.

We can win a championship with Jake, but he is not a guy who can carry a team to be sure. He needs weapons. Honestly, our offensive talent is mediocre; it is the brilliance of Shanny's scheme that allows us to have top rated offenses year in and year out...but smoke and mirrors will only get you so far. We need need a real playmaker on offense like TO who can give Jake a better chance to make plays when the chips are down and the gameplan has to be altered.

Yeah, Jake choked...nothing to do with the horrid pass protecion on offense and dreadful pass defense...nothing to do with only running the ball 14 times. Whatever you say, dude.

[BroncoInferno]

Your insane. John would of taken any great Wideout but he would have wanted one with more class ( I.E Tim Brown when they attempted to get him ). John would have never wanted a lockeroom cancer like TO, your delusional if you think so.

You're delusional if you don't think John would have welcomed in any player with open arms whose talent gave him increased hope of winning a championship. If someone said to the '96 John: You'll win a championship with T.O. but we can't guarentee you'll win one without, are you honestly going to tell me that he would go with the 'possibly no championship' option? Please.

[-Slap-]

If someone said to the '96 John: You'll win a championship with T.O. but we can't guarentee you'll win one without, are you honestly going to tell me that he would go with the 'possibly no championship' option? Please.
John would have called security and said, "Please escort Nostradamus here out of my lockerroom, thank you." Hopefully, after he spat tobacco juice on your shoes.

[BroncoInferno]

John would have called security and said, "Please escort Nostradamus here out of my lockerroom, thank you." Hopefully, after he spat tobacco juice on your shoes.

Elway would have slipped me a couple of C-notes to chloroform TO and lock him in a dungeon with Bowlen and Shanny until he'd signed a contract.

[RMT]

So all the former players say nay, but all the ACTIVE players say yes, i think ill go with who is on the field now, and trust the decision shanny makes.

Exactly ... and don't forget that all of those FORMER players already have SB rings on their fingers ... some of the guys on the current Broncos' team DON'T ... pretty easy to have an opinion when you aren't chasing a SB title.

[Northman]

We can win a championship with Jake, but he is not a guy who can carry a team to be sure. He needs weapons. Honestly, our offensive talent is mediocre; it is the brilliance of Shanny's scheme that allows us to have top rated offenses year in and year out...but smoke and mirrors will only get you so far. We need need a real playmaker on offense like TO who can give Jake a better chance to make plays when the chips are down and the gameplan has to be altered.

Yeah, Jake choked...nothing to do with the horrid pass protecion on offense and dreadful pass defense...nothing to do with only running the ball 14 times. Whatever you say, dude.


Oh i see, So McNabb gets all the blame for his Issue in the Super Bowl but god forbid anyone come down on Jake for his performance right? Dude, stop it now your embarrassing yourself. TO would have not made a difference against the Steelers cause Jake was off his game just like McNabb was off his but it didnt stop you from throwing him under the bus.

[RMT]

When Elway was ringless he would have dragged T.O. into Denver bound and gagged and not let him leave till his signature was on a contract. John knows it, you know it, I know it.

EXACTLY ... remember when they brought in Michael Dean Perry to shore up their DLine? He was the lardass who walked off the field in the '96 loss to the Jags in the playoffs that gave the Jags a first down and kept their drive alive.

How is getting TO any different? Guys are desparate to win and TO will take them in either direction (up or down) ... it's the risk/reward that is so intriguing. That's why current players are more keen on adding him that old guys who retired long ago WITH SB rings.

[RMT]

How much would you bet that we DO win one in the next 5 years WITHOUT TO?

Less than what I'd bet on us winning it all NEXT year WITH TO.

[Northman]

You're delusional if you don't think John would have welcomed in any player with open arms whose talent gave him increased hope of winning a championship. If someone said to the '96 John: You'll win a championship with T.O. but we can't guarentee you'll win one without, are you honestly going to tell me that he would go with the 'possibly no championship' option? Please.


Thats your problem right there, saying that TO guarantees anything is ludicrous. TO has not brought any Championship to any team let alone get a team to the Super Bowl. As i stated in my post that you quoted John would have welcomed ANY receiver who had talent and enough class to help him get his ring. And wouldnt you know it? he waited ONE more year and finally got what he was waiting for. We were ONE game away from the Super Bowl and all of a sudden you guys think we need TO to get us the rest of the way? Ha!

[FantomForce]

The King has spoken... bow down, b!tches
Damn right

[Northman]

Less than what I'd bet on us winning it all NEXT year WITH TO.


Ill take that bet.

[BroncoInferno]

Oh i see, So McNabb gets all the blame for his Issue in the Super Bowl but god forbid anyone come down on Jake for his performance right? Dude, stop it now your embarrassing yourself. TO would have not made a difference against the Steelers cause Jake was off his game just like McNabb was off his but it didnt stop you from throwing him under the bus.

Jake played a bad game, I'm not denying it. With our mediocre offensive talent, Jake doesn't have a chance to win for us when we fall behind. I disagree that TO wouldn't have made a difference. You people just don't understand what a player of that caliber can do for your offense. McNabb went from a 57% passer to 64% passer and went from having 33 TDs combined his previous two seasons to having 31 with TO. Don't tell me a guy who has that kind of impact would have made no difference. I would throw Jake under the bus if he staggered bewildered to the lne of scrimmage with 5 minutes to go and chance to win the Super Bowl, but the situations are not correlative. Pitt stopped passing in the second half or they probably would have gone over 40.

[NFLBRONCO]

I want to land TO for 2006 for 2 reason's.

1. This way Denver won't be tempted to draft WR in 1st round focus on bigger needs. If we miss out on him we might blow #1 on a weak WR class.

2. We need a playmaker on O TO is one

[jbiel]

I'm getting sick of all these explayers trying to influence Shanny. I love Elway just as much as anyone else, but he and TD should keep this too themselves. Everyone keeps talking how close we are, we got a gift from Pittsburgh and couldn't even unwrap it. If we would have went to Indy, I think we would have lost by 20+ points. The fact is we don't have a true offensive playmaker that teams worry about. With TO, defenses couldnt just focus on the run, could you imagine our playaction pass with TO?

Another thing, if our team is so close, nothing should be able to tear them apart. I dont care if TO comes out and calls Plummer a pussy, Plummer as a pro athlete should be able to shake that off just like he does with the press and some of you everytime he has a bad game. I think he can do it. As long as TO does performs on the field, let him run his mouth if he has too. If the team doesnt let it get to them, he may shut up for good.

TO is a risk, but sometimes you have to take chances, and if we don't do something, I don't see how we come out of the AFC next year. It's tuff as hell just to win our division.

[BroncoInferno]

Thats your problem right there, saying that TO guarantees anything is ludicrous. TO has not brought any Championship to any team let alone get a team to the Super Bowl. As i stated in my post that you quoted John would have welcomed ANY receiver who had talent and enough class to help him get his ring. And wouldnt you know it? he waited ONE more year and finally got what he was waiting for. We were ONE game away from the Super Bowl and all of a sudden you guys think we need TO to get us the rest of the way? Ha!

I didn't say he guarenteed a damned thing. He is a risk, no question, just one I'm willing to take. The bolded is what they call a 'hypothetical' and was in relation to whether or not Elway the ringless would have welcomed TO or not.

Comparing the '96 team to this years squad is ridiculous. This team has mediocre offensive talent that can usually thrive because of Shanny's brilliant schemes. We need a playmaker somewhere on offense that can give us someone teams legitimately have to plan for, and who we can go to in the crunch, or when the chips are down. I'm not saying that's the only need, but it's a big one.

[Northman]

Jake played a bad game, I'm not denying it. With our mediocre offensive talent, Jake doesn't have a chance to win for us when we fall behind. I disagree that TO wouldn't have made a difference. You people just don't understand what a player of that caliber can do for your offense. McNabb went from a 57% passer to 64% passer and went from having 33 TDs combined his previous two seasons to having 31 with TO. Don't tell me a guy who has that kind of impact would have made no difference. I would throw Jake under the bus if he staggered bewildered to the lne of scrimmage with 5 minutes to go and chance to win the Super Bowl, but the situations are not correlative. Pitt stopped passing in the second half or they probably would have gone over 40.


But they are correlative, TO was not even playing in the Playoffs to get them to the Super Bowl. And who knows what Donovan's issue was, maybe he was sick as dog who knows? **** happens but their success was hardly do to TO not too mention the chaos that TO ensued upon them a year later. Everyone has already stated that TO has talent your just confusing the issue. The issue is his character and that is a huge problem. And your kidding yourself if you think TO wont blow up on Jake if Jake fails to get him the ball. I know i know, you say IF TO signs a contract with incentives it will all be alright but you dont even know if he is willing to settle for that. TO is not the answer for this team bottom line. TO is not going to win the Super Bowl for us just like he didnt win it for the Eagles and just like he didnt help the Niners get to a Championship.

[Northman]

I didn't say he guarenteed a damned thing. He is a risk, no question, just one I'm willing to take. The bolded is what they call a 'hypothetical' and was in relation to whether or not Elway the ringless would have welcomed TO or not.

Comparing the '96 team to this years squad is ridiculous. This team has mediocre offensive talent that can usually thrive because of Shanny's brilliant schemes. We need a playmaker somewhere on offense that can give us someone teams legitimately have to plan for, and who we can go to in the crunch, or when the chips are down. I'm not saying that's the only need, but it's a big one.

There are other options out there with less risk. Trust me.

[BroncoInferno]

But they are correlative, TO was not even playing in the Playoffs to get them to the Super Bowl. And who knows what Donovan's issue was, maybe he was sick as dog who knows? **** happens but their success was hardly do to TO not too mention the chaos that TO ensued upon them a year later. Everyone has already stated that TO has talent your just confusing the issue. The issue is his character and that is a huge problem. And your kidding yourself if you think TO wont blow up on Jake if Jake fails to get him the ball. I know i know, you say IF TO signs a contract with incentives it will all be alright but you dont even know if he is willing to settle for that. TO is not the answer for this team bottom line. TO is not going to win the Super Bowl for us just like he didnt win it for the Eagles and just like he didnt help the Niners get to a Championship.

So the games he played in the regular season had no barring on the Eagles Super Bowl run, right? Those 77 catches and 14 TDs were totally meaningless, right? How do you know that that Eagles team would have been as good as the previous years teams without him? Maybe without that playmaker on offense it finally would have caught up with them going to battle with Pinkston and Mitchell at WR. Who knows? But to say the impact he had to their passing game as I noted above didn't improve them, and to dismiss his tremendous Super Bowl performance, and then to further foolishily state that 'their success was hardly do to TO' is absurd. That is just flat false. I think the character thing only becomes a problem when it is multiple players. One guy can be handled. And don't tell me that ESPN crap about him ruining the Eagles and Niners. The Eagles lost this season because of massive injuries to key players. They actually started 4-2 AFTER the worse of his comments. It was when McNabb and other key guys got hurt that they started losing. The Niners lost simply because of years of poor cap management. I'm not saying his attitude helped matters, but to blame him alone for the demise of those teams is shallow, lazy analysis worthy of an ESPN analyist.

[BroncoInferno]

There are other options out there with less risk. Trust me.

Who? Wayne? Free agency is littered with second fiddles who got big bucks to be a #1, only to fail miserably (Peerless Price and Alvin Harper come to mind). Jurevicious? I like him and wouldn't mind bringing him in instead of TO, so long as we bring in another playmaker somewhere else (i.e. Ricky Williams). Who else is there?

[watermock]

Duke...we had a 1000 post thread if you want to wade thru it.

I'll roll with the punches either way. If the Claw hadn't been horrible dropping everything, I wouldn't want TO.

Honestly, John needs to worry about defending his Crush trophy. This is a decision for Shanny, Sundy and the leaders of the team. My opinion is TO can be a one hit wonder with alot of incentives/punishments. We draft a WR and give him a year to ripen, then kick TO to the curb if the Claw comes around. And yes, I still covet the TE/WR Davis. He reminds me of a bigger T.O. with a smaller ego. This kid has it all to be a superstar IMO.

I'm not that sympathetic of T.O. but honestly, inside he has to be hurting. Rosendouche really raped him...just so he could get a commision...Rosendouche also hurt himself honestly, and noone likes being beaten down. You know the guy has insecurity issues, it's obvious. He's taken some real kicks in the nuts...the reason your not hearing a peep out of him is he's rolling around the floor with a hernia.

[24champ]

TO is coming to denver, get over it.

[NFLBRONCO]

Duke...we had a 1000 post thread if you want to wade thru it.

I'll roll with the punches either way. If the Claw hadn't been horrible dropping everything, I wouldn't want TO.

Honestly, John needs to worry about defending his Crush trophy. This is a decision for Shanny, Sundy and the leaders of the team. My opinion is TO can be a one hit wonder with alot of incentives/punishments. We draft a WR and give him a year to ripen, then kick TO to the curb if the Claw comes around. And yes, I still covet the TE/WR Davis. He reminds me of a bigger T.O. with a smaller ego.

I agree Mock. you'd rather trade up for Davis then Mario?

[-Slap-]

Honestly, John needs to worry about defending his Crush trophy.
He better worry about Marcus Nash coming to town tomorrow and spanking his boys' asses.

http://lvgladiators.com.ismmedia.com/ISM2/PlayerManager/1243.jpeg.300.jpeg

"Whelihan to Nash....Touchdown Gladiators!"

[-Slap-]

TO is coming to denver, get over it.
I'm sure the franchise will get over it. It only took five years to squeeze the last of Dale Carter's poison out of the lockerroom.

[24champ]

I'm sure the franchise will get over it. It only took five years to squeeze the last of Dale Carter's poison out of the lockerroom.
Drew is getting awfully cozy with Shannahan in Hawaii. Two have been spotted chatting.

[baja]

TO like the Browncos will have a cut and move on cap friendly contract and just like the browncos will have little down side.

[watermock]

Here's something i was really thinking about yesterday...

TO came to a team in Philly who had HUGE success in the past few seasons. No superbowl, but the team had alot of experience together. It was like our team is now, only i think our team is a little closer. TO came, and suddenly after two seasons things went bad. Amazing part is, some players from philly were siding with TO!!!

Can you honestly say that if TO came to Denver, and started messing things up, that even ONE player would be on his side? Are you kidding me?? You think Rod's gonna turn on Jake, or Champ is gonna turn on John and Al. NO FREAKING WAY! How it happened in Philly i have NO CLUE. How do you let the new guy come in and cause problems and then decide that your bond with your teamates just isn't important anymore?

To me this says something.. and that is..

The Eagles weren't as close a team as you may have believed. Nobody on the team can really be considered a leader, at least when you are talking about guys like Al Wilson, John Lynch, Champ Bailey, and Jake Plummer. Just because an athlete is a GREAT PLAYER, doesn't mean he's a GREAT LEADER. There may have been 1 or possibly 2 guys that everyone looks up to because of how long they have been there, but nothing like what we have.

Like it or not, if Shanny wants him, he will be ours, he will be ours.

Insert Rod Smith for Jake. Jake is BECOMING a leader. Flippin' off a couple hecklers isn't being a leader. Throwing picks at the worst possible time isn't clutch. He had the best year of his career, and the QB has to be a leader, but IMO, he's not quite there yet. He still comes off as a little immature if that's possible after all these years.

[-Slap-]

Drew is getting awfully cozy with Shanahan in Hawaii. Two have been spotted chatting.
Your avatar is an apt visual represention of TO's impact on a lockerroom.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=3674&dateline=1139657589

The staff symbolizes TO's ego.

[24champ]

Your avatar is an apt visual represention of TO's impact on a lockerroom.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=3674&dateline=1139657589

The staff symbolizes TO's ego.
:spit: ;D yeah but we will have a contract set up for that, otherwise no deal.

[Northman]

So the games he played in the regular season had no barring on the Eagles Super Bowl run, right? Those 77 catches and 14 TDs were totally meaningless, right? How do you know that that Eagles team would have been as good as the previous years teams without him? Maybe without that playmaker on offense it finally would have caught up with them going to battle with Pinkston and Mitchell at WR. Who knows? But to say the impact he had to their passing game as I noted above didn't improve them, and to dismiss his tremendous Super Bowl performance, and then to further foolishily state that 'their success was hardly do to TO' is absurd. That is just flat false. I think the character thing only becomes a problem when it is multiple players. One guy can be handled. And don't tell me that ESPN crap about him ruining the Eagles and Niners. The Eagles lost this season because of massive injuries to key players. They actually started 4-2 AFTER the worse of his comments. It was when McNabb and other key guys got hurt that they started losing. The Niners lost simply because of years of poor cap management. I'm not saying his attitude helped matters, but to blame him alone for the demise of those teams is shallow, lazy analysis worthy of an ESPN analyist.



The only thing that TO did during the regular season was bump up their stats and scores. Instead of them scoring 25 points a game it jumped to 35 but they still would have made it to the dance cause they had almost no competition in the NFC East. And yes, the Eagles had injuries that they had to endure last year but the fact that THE guy ( according to your logic ) they needed most bailed on them and kicked them when they were down. Yea, this is a guy we need on this team. But your right dude, TO is innocent in all this as everyone else is to blame in TO's life. Yea, got to love a guy who takes no responsability for his actions and is willing to throw everyone else under the bus. I dont know how long you've been a Bronco fan BI but im getting a sense that you were one of those guys who threw John under the bus for those Super Bowl losses right? Your logic here makes no sense whatsover especially condoning a player who has no Championships to back up his stats. You have to come to the realization that the league is full of " Me " players and very very few of them get the ring in the end.

[Northman]

:spit: ;D yeah but we will have a contract set up for that, otherwise no deal.


Again, hypotheticals.

[24champ]

Again, hypotheticals.
its also hypothetical TO will destroy the team.;D

[Northman]

Who? Wayne? Free agency is littered with second fiddles who got big bucks to be a #1, only to fail miserably (Peerless Price and Alvin Harper come to mind). Jurevicious? I like him and wouldn't mind bringing him in instead of TO, so long as we bring in another playmaker somewhere else (i.e. Ricky Williams). Who else is there?


Its hard to say what Wayne would do after living in the shadow of Harrison. Jurevicious is a great player and i agree would much rather bring him in especially with his history with Lynch.

[Northman]

its also hypothetical TO will destroy the team.;D


True, but the facts of past history support my arguement. :thumbs:

[24champ]

True, but the facts of past history support my arguement. :thumbs:
same here.

[Clockwork Orange]

Yeah, what does Elway know about team chemistry and leadership? I mean really, it's not like every player who stepped on that field in San Diego for Super Bowl XXXII was ready to walk through hell and back to get the job done for him. Seriously, you can manufacture that kind of unity and focus any time, any place regardless of distractions, disruptions and malcontents.

It's obvious that Elway & Terrell Davis have no idea what they're talking about and just don't care about the well being of the Broncos.

[-Slap-]

Its hard to say what Wayne would do after living in the shadow of Harrison. Jurevicious is a great player and i agree would much rather bring him in especially with his history with Lynch.
Jurevicious would be a nice addition, but you would certainly want to keep Lelie and add some speed at TE with that kind of lineup. Also, a back who can catch the ball, Ricky Williams for example.

[Northman]

Yeah, what does Elway know about team chemistry and leadership? I mean really, it's not like every player who stepped on that field in San Diego for Super Bowl XXXII was ready to walk through hell and back to get the job done for him. Seriously, you can manufacture that kind of unity and focus any time, any place regardless of distractions, disruptions and malcontents.

It's obvious that Elway & Terrell Davis have no idea what they're talking about and just don't care about the well being of the Broncos.


Yep, who are they and who cares about their opinions?

[watermock]

The only thing that TO did during the regular season was bump up their stats and scores. Instead of them scoring 25 points a game it jumped to 35 but they still would have made it to the dance cause they had almost no competition in the NFC East. And yes, the Eagles had injuries that they had to endure last year but the fact that THE guy ( according to your logic ) they needed most bailed on them and kicked them when they were down. Yea, this is a guy we need on this team. But your right dude, TO is innocent in all this as everyone else is to blame in TO's life. Yea, got to love a guy who takes no responsability for his actions and is willing to throw everyone else under the bus. I dont know how long you've been a Bronco fan BI but im getting a sense that you were one of those guys who threw John under the bus for those Super Bowl losses right? Your logic here makes no sense whatsover especially condoning a player who has no Championships to back up his stats. You have to come to the realization that the league is full of " Me " players and very very few of them get the ring in the end.

OK, I am now hosting "The Top 5 reasons why T.O. isn't to blame on ESPN.

#5 T.O. has huge insecurity issues

#4 McNabb did choke in the SB

#3 Rosendouche intentionally created a ruckess to get a new contract because just having a client without a new contract is worthless.

#2 The "Ambassador Hugh" shouldn't of stuck his fat nose into it, especially while T.O. was getting treatment. How the hell does he know more than the trainer? It's documented that T.O. came back early by rehabbing like a crazy man, and he's not a spring chicken.

#1 It's Brian's fault.

[Northman]

Jurevicious would be a nice addition, but you would certainly want to keep Lelie and add some speed at TE with that kind of lineup. Also, a back who can catch the ball, Ricky Williams for example.


At this point i would rather take Ricky just because he needs the job to pay off his debt. Plus, he just flat out quit and never said anything bad about his teamates. Then when he came back he apologized unlike another certain individual we know.

[Clockwork Orange]

Yep, who are they and who cares about their opinions?

Oh, and Tom Jackson is against it too. I guess he's just trying to sabotage the team as well.

[24champ]

the only opinion that really matters is Mike Shannahan's because he is the one that formulates the plan. As far as im concerned Mike got Elway a super bowl ring. Does Elway, Tom Jackson, TD run the Broncos? I suppose we can just cut Shanny loose because we have Elway, TD, and Tom Jackson to run the Broncos right?

[BroncoInferno]

The only thing that TO did during the regular season was bump up their stats and scores. Instead of them scoring 25 points a game it jumped to 35 but they still would have made it to the dance cause they had almost no competition in the NFC East. And yes, the Eagles had injuries that they had to endure last year but the fact that THE guy ( according to your logic ) they needed most bailed on them and kicked them when they were down. Yea, this is a guy we need on this team. But your right dude, TO is innocent in all this as everyone else is to blame in TO's life. Yea, got to love a guy who takes no responsability for his actions and is willing to throw everyone else under the bus. I dont know how long you've been a Bronco fan BI but im getting a sense that you were one of those guys who threw John under the bus for those Super Bowl losses right? Your logic here makes no sense whatsover especially condoning a player who has no Championships to back up his stats. You have to come to the realization that the league is full of " Me " players and very very few of them get the ring in the end.

I have been a Bronco fan since '87 when I was just a tike, and I always ardently defended John. You have to take things on a situation by situation basis.

Yeah, TO only improved their stats, whatver you say ::) I'm glad our front office people don't make such shallow analyitical conclusions.

[Northman]

the only opinion that really matters is Mike Shannahan's because he is the one that formulates the plan. As far as im concerned Mike got Elway a super bowl ring. Does Elway, Tom Jackson, TD run the Broncos?


Mike might make the final decision especially now but dont kid yourself if you dont think he would allow for some opinions from former players. Did you miss that clip of the Den/Pitt game in 97 when Shanny asked John about the play for Sharpe? And so far we havent heard from Shanny regarding TO all we know is they talked. As far as we know Shanny may of just said thanks but no thanks. And Shanny wasnt the only one to get that Super Bowl ring as he hasnt gotten one since so dont disrespect the rest of the team because of your ignorance.

[Clockwork Orange]

the only opinion that really matters is Mike Shannahan's because he is the one that formulates the plan. As far as im concerned Mike got Elway a super bowl ring. Does Elway, Tom Jackson, TD run the Broncos? I suppose we can just cut Shanny loose because we have Elway, TD, and Tom Jackson to run the Broncos right?

No, but to completely discredit their opinions is laughable. These are three guys who love this team, who bled for this team and don't want to see them go from Super Bowl contender to sideshow.

[BroncoInferno]

Jurevicious is a great player and i agree would much rather bring him in especially with his history with Lynch.

Yeah, so long as we couple this move with bringing in Ricky and keeping Lelie. Rod, Ashley, Jurevicious would be a nice trio. Couple that with Ricky, and you have really upgraded the skill positions.

[Northman]

I have been a Bronco fan since '87 when I was just a tike, and I always ardently defended John. You have to take things on a situation by situation basis.

Yeah, TO only improved their stats, whatver you say ::) I'm glad our front office people don't make such shallow analyitical conclusions.


Good point, how long you been working for the front office? ::)

[-Slap-]

Oh, and Tom Jackson is against it too. I guess he's just trying to sabotage the team as well.
I thought I heard Sharpe didn't think it was a good idea, either.

Lynch was against it before being told to shut up and sit down.

Rod Smith laughed out loud at the notion he could have any kind of influence over TO.

[BroncoInferno]

Mike might make the final decision especially now but dont kid yourself if you dont think he would allow for some opinions from former players. Did you miss that clip of the Den/Pitt game in 97 when Shanny asked John about the play for Sharpe?

Yeah, but John and Sharpe were on the team at the time. They aren't any more. I doubt their opinions will factor much into Shanny's decesion.

[Northman]

I thought I heard Sharpe didn't think it was a good idea, either.

Lynch was against it before being told to shut up and sit down.

Rod Smith laughed out loud at the notion he could have any kind of influence over TO.


I guess those guys thoughts dont mean anything cause they already have rings.

[24champ]

No, but to completely discredit their opinions is laughable. These are three guys who love this team, who bled for this team and don't want to see them go from Super Bowl contender to sideshow.
Im sure Elway & Co have disagreed with who the Broncos should sign other than TO. Does that stop the Broncos from signing the player? No.

[24champ]

I guess those guys thoughts dont mean anything cause they already have rings.
Last I checked Shannahan has more rings than those guys.

[Northman]

Im sure Elway & Co have disagreed with who the Broncos should sign other than TO. Does that stop the Broncos from signing the player? No.


Dont know, ive never heard them speak in the media about another player coming to Denver. Got any links to prove that?

[Clockwork Orange]

Im sure Elway & Co have disagreed with who the Broncos should sign other than TO. Does that stop the Broncos from signing the player? No.

The Broncos have never been in the market for someone so blatantly destructive before. They've signed some very questionable characters, but no one on par with Owens. Especially not right after they were a game away from the Super Bowl.

[Northman]

Last I checked Shannahan has more rings than those guys.


Shanny has 3 right? so does Sharpe. And one of Shanny's was as a assistant not a head coach.

[24champ]

Dont know, ive never heard them speak in the media about another player coming to Denver. Got any links to prove that?
no just an opinion, i guess your right. Elway loved every acquisition Shannahan made since he retired.:giggle:

[Northman]

no just an opinion, i guess your right. Elway loved every acquisition Shannahan made since he retired.:giggle:


Wouldnt know, never heard him speak about but im sure you have though cause you guys are tight like that. Ha!

[CBF1]

I think the Broncos are close enough anyway, and they don't need a guy who's too much of a risk.

Personally I do not think Denver was as close as alot of us seem to think. We got punked at home by the eventual SB winners. We need a difference/play maker on this offense and TO is that kind of player. In SB 32 and 33 we not only had John Elway, but we also had one of the best RB's ever in Terrell Davis... both of whom were play makers.

[Clockwork Orange]

In SB 32 and 33 we not only had John Elway, but we also had one of the best RB's ever in Terrell Davis... both of whom were play makers.

Neither of whom were self-absorbed locker room cancers.

[Play2win]

Yeah, so long as we couple this move with bringing in Ricky and keeping Lelie. Rod, Ashley, Jurevicious would be a nice trio. Couple that with Ricky, and you have really upgraded the skill positions.
I think this is the winning formula. Now lets Get 'ur DONE !!!!

[Northman]

Personally I do not think Denver was as close as alot of us seem to think. We got punked at home by the eventual SB winners. We need a difference/play maker on this offense and TO is that kind of player. In SB 32 and 33 we not only had John Elway, but we also had one of the best RB's ever in Terrell Davis... both of whom were play makers.


Oh really? Anything can happen on Sunday dude. In 97' Denver lost to a Jags team whom i would of said wasnt better than that Denver team but we lost anyway. Pitt simply went on a run and we didnt play OUR game and allowed them to dictate theirs all day. If by this post you mean Denver went 13-3 on sheer luck than ill accept your post even though i totally disagree with it. I need not remind you that the Ravens and Buccaneers have Championships without big names on the offensive side of the ball. So the point is either we can beef up the Defense more, get more O-line help ( cause they need it desperately ) or sign a Guaranteed Cancer who MIGHT be able to help us or even better get some players who are TEAM players and get there next year. Adding a guy like JJ to our squad is far better than risking a entire season on TO.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Personally I do not think Denver was as close as alot of us seem to think. We got punked at home by the eventual SB winners. We need a difference/play maker on this offense and TO is that kind of player. In SB 32 and 33 we not only had John Elway, but we also had one of the best RB's ever in Terrell Davis... both of whom were play makers.

I have to disagree. We had one play that completely changed the game... Bailey's non-interception. It was the kind of play that got us to the AFC championship (ie San Diego, Dallas, Baltimore, Oakland, NE). Instead of a sure defensive touchdown, the break went the other way... 10 to 14 point swing plus momentum... not to mention changing our gameplan to play catchup all afternoon.

[TomServo]

i think were close enough w/out TO. when you dont bring your A game to the afc title game one player like T O wont help.
and.... just like the Avs hiring douchbag brad may, if the broncos get TO i wont cheer for him but i wont root against him, just deal with it by myself.

[24champ]

I have to disagree. We had one play that completely changed the game... Bailey's non-interception. It was the kind of play that got us to the AFC championship (ie San Diego, Dallas, Baltimore, Oakland, NE). Instead of a sure defensive touchdown, the break went the other way... 10 to 14 point swing plus momentum... not to mention changing our gameplan to play catchup all afternoon.
this post illustrates the problem.we depended on our defense too much for the third straight year, dont you guys see a pattern here? Every year in the playoffs its the defense gets fvcking taken to the woodshed and then forces our offense to play catchup. When that happens we ditch the run game and then who do we throw to? Shanahan is looking at bringing in TO because it means more flexibilty on offense and that means not just throwing the ball to Rod and handing the ball off. TO will make this offense more wide open (specifically the run game) and that suits Dinger's gameplanning.

[Crushaholic]

The Duke of Denver has spoken. Just say no to TO. Anybody who thinks TO won't get a hefty payday is dreaming. TO (or, more specifically, Rosenholdout) will mess with salary caps for anybody who pulls the trigger. Please, Shanahan...DO NOT do this. We can figure out other ways to add the missing ingredient...:pray:

[24champ]

Oh really? Anything can happen on Sunday dude. In 97' Denver lost to a Jags team whom i would of said wasnt better than that Denver team but we lost anyway. Pitt simply went on a run and we didnt play OUR game and allowed them to dictate theirs all day. If by this post you mean Denver went 13-3 on sheer luck than ill accept your post even though i totally disagree with it. I need not remind you that the Ravens and Buccaneers have Championships without big names on the offensive side of the ball. So the point is either we can beef up the Defense more, get more O-line help ( cause they need it desperately ) or sign a Guaranteed Cancer who WILL be able to help us or even better get some players who are TEAM players and get there next year. Adding a guy like JJ to our squad is far better than risking a entire season on TO.
Hmm Jamal Lewis and Keshawn Johnson come to mind, Patriots added Cory Dillon ...I see a trend.

[watermock]

The Duke of Denver has spoken. Just say no to TO. Anybody who thinks TO won't get a hefty payday is dreaming. TO (or, more specifically, Rosenholdout) will mess with salary caps for anybody who pulls the trigger. Please, Shanahan...DO NOT do this. We can figure out other ways to add the missing ingredient...:pray:

it's not his decision.

[Crushaholic]

it's not his decision.

You don't think Shanahan signs off on acquisitions? Come on now, Mock. You're smarter than that...

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I'd rather loose than have to cheer for this douchebag.

[Odysseus]

this post illustrates the problem.we depended on our defense too much for the third straight year, dont you guys see a pattern here? Every year in the playoffs its the defense gets fvcking taken to the woodshed and then forces our offense to play catchup. When that happens we ditch the run game and then who do we throw to? Shanahan is looking at bringing in TO because it means more flexibilty on offense and that means not just throwing the ball to Rod and handing the ball off. TO will make this offense more wide open (specifically the run game) and that suits Dinger's gameplanning.

Exactly. I don't think T.O. is the perfect answer but the question is still the same.

1. How do we put some heat on offensive scoring NOT just 3rd down percentages, 4th down percentages, etc.

2. How do we get our offense so that 10 points down isn't almost always "game over".

3. Jake needs help. Geez. Guys! You think it's easier to get a new QB than a new reciever? When did that happen? All this talk about trading Lelie...Do you think our depth at WR is good enough without him? Why?

4. TE is not our strong position anymore. We need to get two legitimate recieving threats in addition to keeping Rod out there. Show me how we are going to do that in this upcoming draft with our offense?

[Arkie]

I support the Broncos decision whether they sign TO or not, but only if they realize that he will NOT change. Some people think TO will choose to change. Maybe TO has a personality disorder that won't allow him to change. It's a condition, not a choice.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I support the Broncos decision whether they sign TO or not, but only if they realize that he will NOT change. Some people think TO will choose to change. Maybe TO has a personality disorder that won't allow him to change. It's a condition, not a choice.

Narcicism: "I love me some me"

Antisocial personality: not only refuses to abide by social rules, but incapable of comprehending their existance

Borderline personality: the only stable thing in his world is constant instability

There are three personality disorders that I can come up with right off the top of my head... probably doesn't scratch the surface to what a real shrink would find.

Maybe I can come up a new syndrome: AC/DC = Attention Craving Douchebag Crybaby Sydrome... otherwise know as "Owens' Disease"

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Ok - now that Ray Lewis is demanding a trade do we include him on the list of sh*ts the Broncos will be reported to attempt to sign?

[Northman]

Hmm Jamal Lewis and Keshawn Johnson come to mind, Patriots added Cory Dillon ...I see a trend.


Jamal Lewis? hardly a problem player and has never been a destructive force on the Ravens. Meshawn? without a doubt a lesser TO but Meshawn also road the coattails of the Tampa Defense not too mention Joe J. being the most important part of that Tampa offense. Dillon? again, hardly a factor for the Patriots as it relys more on Brady than anything. Man, you are really reaching here. ROFL!

[Northman]

Exactly. I don't think T.O. is the perfect answer but the question is still the same.

1. How do we put some heat on offensive scoring NOT just 3rd down percentages, 4th down percentages, etc.

2. How do we get our offense so that 10 points down isn't almost always "game over".

3. Jake needs help. Geez. Guys! You think it's easier to get a new QB than a new reciever? When did that happen? All this talk about trading Lelie...Do you think our depth at WR is good enough without him? Why?

4. TE is not our strong position anymore. We need to get two legitimate recieving threats in addition to keeping Rod out there. Show me how we are going to do that in this upcoming draft with our offense?


Again, your missing the point. its not about getting more help on offense, its about getting someone who isnt going to disrupt the chemistry of the team. Yes, we need more Offensive help but TO is not the answer. That is what everyone is trying to convey to you guys. You guys live in this pipdream that TO is going to behave when everyone on god's green earth knows that he wont.

[BroncoInferno]

Jamal Lewis? hardly a problem player and has never been a destructive force on the Ravens.

Let's see...he went to jail last offseason, then during the season admitted that he was coasting so he wouldn't get hurt with his pending free agency. Yep, great teammate there! ROFL!

Meshawn? without a doubt a lesser TO but Meshawn also road the coattails of the Tampa Defense not too mention Joe J. being the most important part of that Tampa offense.

Has been a very productive player throughout his career, though definately not worth the number one overall pick. Still, to say it was not a very productive member of that team and a key cog offensively is just flat wrong.

Dillon? again, hardly a factor for the Patriots as it relys more on Brady than anything. Man, you are really reaching here. ROFL!

Not much of a factor this season, to be sure, but a big part of their offense during the championship run last season. In fact, his lack of effectiveness this past season probably contributed to the Pats ultimate downfall.

[Northman]

Let's see...he went to jail last offseason, then during the season admitted that he was coasting so he wouldn't get hurt with his pending free agency. Yep, great eammate there!


He never said he was coasting so he wouldnt get hurt. That was a rumor from some of the Ravens fans.


Has been a very productive player throughout his career, though definately not worth the number one overall pick. Still, to say it was not a very productive member of that team and a key cog offensively is just flat wrong.


On the bucs? lmao! i cant count how many times he put the ball on the ground after a catch let alone how invisible he was in the Super Bowl. please, he is average at best.


Not much of a factor this season, to be sure, but a big part of their offense during the championship run last season. In fact, his lack of effectiveness this past season probably contributed to the Pats ultimate downfall.

Fact is, even last season NE was still a passing team. Sure, Dillon added some running ability but he still wasnt the reason they won last year.


Next...

[gunns]

So I guess TD, Elway and Sharpe wouldn't know what it takes to make a championship team. Mike Shanahan should but seems to operating in panic mode. Elway's main point was playing as a team, something the Broncos finally did this year, yet we want to take a chance and bring in a lockeroom cancer? I'd say his point of view is more objective seeing as he isn't desperate to win a SB. You can put all the crap you want in that contract about keeping his mouth shut but remember in Philly he did keep his mouth shut and wouldn't talk to the media or his teammates. It spoke volumes to the media and his teammates.

What is it exactly that TO did for Philly? Philly had been to the championship game the previous 3 years without TO. TO didn't play in any games, yet they got to the SB and he played in the SB. So I guess I'm missing just what TO is so special at as far as helping a team win a SB. With Mike's success at obtaining WR's this scares the hell out of me.

[Northman]

So I guess TD, Elway and Sharpe wouldn't know what it takes to make a championship team. Mike Shanahan should but seems to operating in panic mode. Elway's main point was playing as a team, something the Broncos finally did this year, yet we want to take a chance and bring in a lockeroom cancer? I'd say his point of view is more objective seeing as he isn't desperate to win a SB. You can put all the crap you want in that contract about keeping his mouth shut but remember in Philly he did keep his mouth shut and wouldn't talk to the media or his teammates. It spoke volumes to the media and his teammates.

What is it exactly that TO did for Philly? Philly had been to the championship game the previous 3 years without TO. TO didn't play in any games, yet they got to the SB and he played in the SB. So I guess I'm missing just what TO is so special at as far as helping a team win a SB. With Mike's success at obtaining WR's this scares the hell out of me.


What we have here Gunns is a group of Bronco fans who are in awe of the Flavor Clowns of the NFL. Nevermind that it takes a TEAM effort to win the Super Bowl which guys like TD, Elway, and Sharpe know about. The fact is Denver isnt going to sign TO, its just not necessary to bring in a guy with that kind of risk. Especially when you were a game away from the Dance anyway. Shanny may have entertained the idea but isnt stupid enough to go through with it.

[watermock]

The Broncos have never been in the market for someone so blatantly destructive before. They've signed some very questionable characters, but no one on par with Owens. Especially not right after they were a game away from the Super Bowl.

That's exactly WHY they may sign him...because we came so close. You don't need a slide rule to understand the interest. Rod Smith isn't getting younger, Lelie isn't a third down type of reciever, and the Claw is well...the claw...The Putz is adequate, but basically middle of the road. He converted some third downs. We could use a little more size somewhere on the OL, but the OL seems set actually...I don't think we have redone Lepsis...a good LT would be a luxury in a draft filled with good OL.

The problems are obvious. We need a sackmaster, we need a vet WR who can convert third downs (another glaring weakness), and we need a cover safety for when the Lynch retires that can match up on a TE or WR in a pinch. Brandon made some strides, Cox made strides and who knows with Browner, but we might not be as desperate at S as people think. Let's sort out the secondary next year...we have talent there...I think there might be some surprises.

Rosendouche and Shanny chatting openly means it's going to happen if they are allready talking numbers. We won't trade for him, and Rosendouche doesn't want a trade anyway unless he gets to feed on a new contract. This is an odd opportunity for Shanny to talk in a relaxed environment in the Sharks natural habitat. One thing about the shark, he's relentless...he's fishing in Hawaii....

[BroncoInferno]

He never said he was coasting so he wouldnt get hurt. That was a rumor from some of the Ravens fans.

No, he told it to a reporter. And I guess him having gone to jail isn't even worth an attempted rubuttal?

On the bucs? lmao! i cant count how many times he put the ball on the ground after a catch let alone how invisible he was in the Super Bowl. please, he is average at best.

2000 TAM 16 71 874 12.3 38 8 49 2 2
2001 TAM 15 106 1266 11.9 47 1 67 2 1
2002 TAM 16 76 1088 14.3 76 5 53 0 0

Yeah, real average. ::)

Fact is, even last season NE was still a passing team. Sure, Dillon added some running ability but he still wasnt the reason they won last year.

Dillon was a key cog on the 2004 team. This is a fact. They would not have won the Super Bowl that particular season without his production.


Next...

:giggle:

[Northman]

No, he told it to a reporter. And I guess him having gone to jail isn't even worth an attempted rubuttal?



2000 TAM 16 71 874 12.3 38 8 49 2 2
2001 TAM 15 106 1266 11.9 47 1 67 2 1
2002 TAM 16 76 1088 14.3 76 5 53 0 0

Yeah, real average. ::)



Dillon was a key cog on the 2004 team. This is a fact. They would not have won the Super Bowl that particular season without his production.




:giggle:


Got the link for the reporter? as for his jailtime please, any number of players get infractions of some kind so your blowing hot air here. But he never went out of his way like your boy TO to openly blast his teamates. If you think calling out your teamates is the epitome of a teamate than you dont know jack about football. Yes, Meshawn is average as those numbers are weak as **** for a supposed 1st rounder. And no, Dillon wasnt that much of a factor last year. go back and look at Brady's numbers and then come back to me. ;D

[BroncoInferno]

Got the link for the reporter? as for his jailtime please, any number of players get infractions of some kind so your blowing hot air here. But he never went out of his way like your boy TO to openly blast his teamates. If you think calling out your teamates is the epitome of a teamate than you dont know jack about football. Yes, Meshawn is average as those numbers are weak as **** for a supposed 1st rounder. And no, Dillon wasnt that much of a factor last year. go back and look at Brady's numbers and then come back to me. ;D

106 catches, 76, and 71 catches are average? Dillon's 1635 yards and 12 TDs were not a big part of the Pats' '04 success? That is just absurd. Your problem is that when you don't like a guy, you try and say they did absolutely nothing to help the team at all. Keyshawn's 106 catches had no impact on the Bucs Super Bowl season according to you. You say T.O.'s 77 catches and 14 TDs in '04 were just stat fodder and helped the Eagles in no way. Dillon averaging over 100 yards rushing a game did not contribute to the Pats winning the Super Bowl, in your eyes. I can understand you not wanting to bring T.O. guy in because of his off the field issues, but to suggest these players did not contribute to their teams success is just absolutely ridiculous and false. I know T.O. is a risk, I just think we need a player of his caliber on offense to put us over the hump, and I'm willing to roll the dice provided we protect ourselves with behavioral clauses. In '04 he kept his mouth shut, and I think whatever team gets him next season will get the '04 T.O. for at least one year because he will want to prove the media wrong.

[24champ]

Jamal Lewis? hardly a problem player and has never been a destructive force on the Ravens. Meshawn? without a doubt a lesser TO but Meshawn also road the coattails of the Tampa Defense not too mention Joe J. being the most important part of that Tampa offense. Dillon? again, hardly a factor for the Patriots as it relys more on Brady than anything. Man, you are really reaching here. ROFL!
Do you even read your own posts?LOL

Here us what you said.....

I need not remind you that the Ravens and Buccaneers have Championships without big names on the offensive side of the ball.

you telling me Keshawn, Lewis, and Dillon are not big names?LOL

[Northman]

Do you even read your own posts?LOL

Here us what you said.....



you telling me Keshawn, Lewis, and Dillon are not big names?LOL


The biggest name out of them all is Lewis. Meshawn isnt a big name to me, nor is Dillon. Ha!

[-Slap-]

My two favorite KeyChain moments:

Pushing his coaches' head on the sideline and then getting fired.

Talking a gang of **** all week and then getting boofooed by Wayne Chrebet.

[24champ]

106 catches, 76, and 71 catches are average? Dillon's 1635 yards and 12 TDs were not a big part of the Pats' '04 success? That is just absurd. Your problem is that when you don't like a guy, you try and say they did absolutely nothing to help the team at all. Keyshawn's 106 catches had no impact on the Bucs Super Bowl season according to you. You say T.O.'s 77 catches and 14 TDs in '04 were just stat fodder and helped the Eagles in no way. Dillon averaging over 100 yards rushing a game did not contribute to the Pats winning the Super Bowl, in your eyes. I can understand you not wanting to bring T.O. guy in because of his off the field issues, but to suggest these players did not contribute to their teams success is just absolutely ridiculous and false. I know T.O. is a risk, I just think we need a player of his caliber on offense to put us over the hump, and I'm willing to roll the dice provided we protect ourselves with behavioral clauses. In '04 he kept his mouth shut, and I think whatever team gets him next season will get the '04 T.O. for at least one year because he will want to prove the media wrong.
yet they are not big names.Hilarious! Ha!

[BroncoInferno]

yet they are not big names.Hilarious! Ha!

He simply chooses to ignore facts when he doesn't like player.

[Odysseus]

Again, your missing the point. its not about getting more help on offense, its about getting someone who isnt going to disrupt the chemistry of the team. Yes, we need more Offensive help but TO is not the answer. That is what everyone is trying to convey to you guys. You guys live in this pipdream that TO is going to behave when everyone on god's green earth knows that he wont.

I don't think I missed your point. I think it's a valid one. Why bring a guy on your team AT ANY PRICE whose cannot be managed? Point taken. I think the way Shanahan is going about this he's being careful and he's giving T.O. plenty of rope to hang himself.

If Shanahan thinks he can control him I think it's worth the risk. The players don't say a single bad thing then I say let's see what happens. Right now it's just conversation and a lively dialogue at that. If he can cause this my trouble on opposing teams defenses we are foolish not to get him.

Why do you guys think that John Lynch, Al Wilson, Rod Smith, Jake Plummer and all the guys we respect are pussies? You don't think they can keep one guy in check? I say call a team meeting and let the players decide. THEY are the ones who are going to have to live with him. If the PLAYERS back this guy I am behind this guy 100%. Let the PLAYERS decide.

[Northman]

He simply chooses to ignore facts when he doesn't like player.


It has nothing to do with liking or disliking the player, i dont feel that Meshawn or Dillon are bigtime names. Again, your reaching.

[Odysseus]

Patriotsplanet:
PatsfaninPhilly writes: Having had an up close and perosnal look at T.O. here in Philly, he was best described as a narcotic. When it's (or he) working, it numbs the senses and feels good. But once it has worn off, the after effects and withdrawal can be worse than it was before.....
He could drive Gandhi to violence....
Just my $0.02,

Peg writes:
I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if TO landed in Denver... (notwithstanding the lack of alumni support for him...) I think that Shanahan is egotistical enough to think that he can handle TO...
I heard the Herm Edwards quote on Total Access recently, but I also heard that Nick Saban is considering trying to acquire TO... Needless to say, Saban's got an inflated ego, as well...

It is my personal belief that TO will go in and blow up whatever team he joins... I don't think for a second that he has learned anything from his actions and the reactions... Therefore, I'd rather not see him join the Chiefs, 'cuz I like them and their organization... As for the Broncos or the Phins--bring him on--I love to watch the demise of those guys!!!

Chiefsplanet:
Threads on Ebay, Dryer not producing heat, KU Predictions, Do you lock your car, and Rod Smith (I'm not kidding!)

There are no Charger or Raiders boards that I can attend as the hideous gray and god awful lemon yellow offend my eyes. I will have to leave that to someone else to take a look into.

Anybody got anything from any of the Eagles boards? A little vitriole?

[Northman]

Why do you guys think that John Lynch, Al Wilson, Rod Smith, Jake Plummer and all the guys we respect are pussies? You don't think they can keep one guy in check? I say call a team meeting and let the players decide. THEY are the ones who are going to have to live with him. If the PLAYERS back this guy I am behind this guy 100%. Let the PLAYERS decide.

I dont think its about them being pussies Tiger. None of our players are very vocal in the media like TO is. The same thing is with the Eagles, they were a quiet team media wise and when TO went off it became a media circus for them and it added to the problems they were already having. If things go south for us TO is easily going to disrupt the chemistry of this team. TO has already established he will not change because he is who he is and that bothers me. It would be worth the risk if we were struggling to have winning seasons and had no offense at all. Thats not the case with this team as we went 13-3 without TO. Guys like Champbailey and Broncoinferno want you to believe that with TO we can win a Super Bowl. Well, why hasnt TO have a ring? They will say its because of McNabb. Now if this is the case and we make it to the Super Bowl and Jake has a meltdown then what? You think TO will continue to be a good samaritan the following year unlike what he did with the Eagles? I dont think so. Unfortuantely it isnt a risk we should take seeing as how close we are to getting over the hump. Again, i like the idea of adding a more established veteran in Joe J. than i would TO.

[Popps]

Keyshawn has been able to shut up and play football, as of late. Something we can't say about Owens. to some extent, Johnson has probably grown up and realized how talented he is... and how talented he isn't. I think he'd be a great fit of for our offense and a much cheaper/less volatile option than T.O..

[watermock]

I don't think I missed your point. I think it's a valid one. Why bring a guy on your team AT ANY PRICE whose cannot be managed? Point taken. I think the way Shanahan is going about this he's being careful and he's giving T.O. plenty of rope to hang himself.

If Shanahan thinks he can control him I think it's worth the risk. The players don't say a single bad thing then I say let's see what happens. Right now it's just conversation and a lively dialogue at that. If he can cause this my trouble on opposing teams defenses we are foolish not to get him.

Why do you guys think that John Lynch, Al Wilson, Rod Smith, Jake Plummer and all the guys we respect are pussies? You don't think they can keep one guy in check? I say call a team meeting and let the players decide. THEY are the ones who are going to have to live with him. If the PLAYERS back this guy I am behind this guy 100%. Let the PLAYERS decide.

Shanny allready called a team meeting they went down the line like the NASA control room in Houston. The obvious voice here is Rod Smith, the vet WR. If he had gone NO GO, this whole little adventure would of ended because I believe others would of followed his lead. We have other great leaders, but Rod runs the WR crew and carries alot of weight for several reasons. We want to bring in some star S, then if a team meeting for a vote is called...Lynch gets to lead...A new OL...Nails...It's still Shanny's call...but it shows this is a class organization to let the team take a vote. When Quitterson came sniveling back...the team took a vote...and kicked him to the curb. T.O. may be a headache, but he's not a quitter the night before a game. He's just crazy on the sidelines and in the media. He's always given full effort on the field. That is an important factor. I'll say it one last time...it's not for the Duke or us to decide...it's a PRESENT team decision, and here is why I think T.O. is coming....

1. Rosendouche, T.O. and Shanny have allready met (for 5 hours)

2. T.O. is being quiet as a mouse

3. The team has said GO

4. Rosendouche and Shanny were seen chatting in Hawaii

5. T.O. wants to play for a team with championship chances.

6. T.O. needs to rehabilitate his image, and I think he's been pretty well beaten down at this point.

7. Dinger is the OC...and a WR coach...if he signs off on it...it's going to happen. I don't think Dinger carries much weight yet, but he will get his say...it's the Shanny way...he listens then he will pull the trigger or pass. I say it's about 70/30 at this point unless some other team gives him a multi-year deal.

[Odysseus]

Again, i like the idea of adding a more established veteran in Joe J. than i would TO.

T.O. is pretty established it's just too bad he's insane.

[watermock]

I dont think its about them being pussies Tiger. None of our players are very vocal in the media like TO is. The same thing is with the Eagles, they were a quiet team media wise and when TO went off it became a media circus for them and it added to the problems they were already having. If things go south for us TO is easily going to disrupt the chemistry of this team. TO has already established he will not change because he is who he is and that bothers me. It would be worth the risk if we were struggling to have winning seasons and had no offense at all. Thats not the case with this team as we went 13-3 without TO. Guys like Champbailey and Broncoinferno want you to believe that with TO we can win a Super Bowl. Well, why hasnt TO have a ring? They will say its because of McNabb. Now if this is the case and we make it to the Super Bowl and Jake has a meltdown then what? You think TO will continue to be a good samaritan the following year unlike what he did with the Eagles? I dont think so. Unfortuantely it isnt a risk we should take seeing as how close we are to getting over the hump. Again, i like the idea of adding a more established veteran in Joe J. than i would TO.

I was calling for Joe V. 5 years ago when he didn't have gray pubic hair. I don't get it...we would NEVER sign T.O. if we were rebuilding...I keep hearing this and it's absurd. He is under consideration BECAUSE we are close to the SB instead of rebuilding. I'm not against Moulds or Joe V., but we passed on Joe V. when I said he was a good replacement for Floppy Ed and was laughed at because he was too slow...was Floppy Ed some burner?. Who's laughing now?

Well I'm surprised...I wanted him when he was 26 and a FA...he's still only 31 or so...I thought he was older.

T.O. Moulds or Joe are all options. We also need to draft a project and heal the Claw's confidence.

He probably doesn't like being called the claw, but stop dropping passes and that will pass....

[Northman]

I was calling for Joe V. 5 years ago when he didn't have gray pubic hair. I don't get it...we would NEVER sign T.O. if we were rebuilding...I keep hearing this and it's absurd. He is under consideration BECAUSE we are close to the SB instead of rebuilding. I'm not against Moulds or Joe V., but we passed on Joe V. when I said he was a good replacement for Floppy Ed and was laughed at because he was too slow...was Floppy Ed some burner?. Who's laughing now?

Well I'm surprised...I wanted him when he was 26 and a FA...he's still only 31 or so...I thought he was older.

T.O. Moulds or Joe are all options. We also need to draft a project and heal the Claw's confidence.

He probably doesn't like being called the claw, but stop dropping passes and that will pass....


Well, Joe isnt a burner but his attitude and character are far more appealing for us than TO is. And that is what i was getting at not too mention he has been to the Dance twice winning one with TB. I just would rather travel down that road than TO at this point.

[BroncoInferno]

It has nothing to do with liking or disliking the player, i dont feel that Meshawn or Dillon are bigtime names. Again, your reaching.

So, a guy rushes for 1635 yards and 12 TDs in helping his team win a Super Bowl, and another catches 106 passes to help his do the same, and you aren't impressed in the least. You are working on one hell of a standard there, buddy.

[jbiel]

I have a solution:

Since none of you control anything dealing with TO, let the Broncos do what they feel is right. If TO is signed and you have a problem with that, just quit cheering for the Broncos if it's that big of a frickin deal for ya.

I'll be with them 100% with or without TO!!!


But if TO helps us get to the superbowl, don't jump on his bandwagon!!!!

[RMT]

I have a solution:

Since none of you control anything dealing with TO, let the Broncos do what they feel is right. If TO is signed and you have a problem with that, just quit cheering for the Broncos if it's that big of a frickin deal for ya.

I'll be with them 100% with or without TO!!!


But if TO helps us get to the superbowl, don't jump on his bandwagon!!!!

What's funny is that some of the "fans" who are so adamantly opposed to bringing TO in are the same people who sold out the Broncos in the playoffs by selling their playoff tix (even to opposing fans) to make a fast and easy buck ... to those of you who did that, have you no shame? The pot calling the kettle black is what that's called.

[jbiel]

What's funny is that some of the "fans" who are so adamantly opposed to bringing TO in are the same people who sold out the Broncos in the playoffd by selling their playoff tix (even to opposing fans) to make a fast and easy buck ... to those of you who did that, have you no shame? The pot calling the kettle black is what that's called.

True.

[Crushaholic]

Ok - now that Ray Lewis is demanding a trade do we include him on the list of sh*ts the Broncos will be reported to attempt to sign?

I would love to have Ray Lewis on this team. He talks a lot (so did Sharpe), but he wants to win football games. He doesn't get an ungodly amount of money and then demands more at the expense of not being with the team.

[BroncoInferno]

I would love to have Ray Lewis on this team. He talks a lot (so did Sharpe), but he wants to win football games. He doesn't get an ungodly amount of money and then demands more at the expense of not being with the team.

Actually, one of the reasons he apparently wants out of Baltimore is because they refuse to renegotiate his contract.

[Nuggets4]

What's funny is that some of the "fans" who are so adamantly opposed to bringing TO in are the same people who sold out the Broncos in the playoffs by selling their playoff tix (even to opposing fans) to make a fast and easy buck ... to those of you who did that, have you no shame? The pot calling the kettle black is what that's called.

I find it interesting that you assume those of us that hate TO sold our playoff tix to opposing fans.

[Clockwork Orange]

What I find funny is the Owens jock riders trying to tell everyone that if you don't just smile and nod your head in agreement with everything the Broncos do, you're not a real fan.

[Northman]

What I find funny is the Owens jock riders trying to tell everyone that if you don't just smile and nod your head in agreement with everything the Broncos do, you're not a real fan.


Ignorance is bliss, funny how some of these assholes are very rarely on this board to begin with. Talk about Band wagon jumpers.

[Arkie]

6. T.O. needs to rehabilitate his image, and I think he's been pretty well beaten down at this point.



It's not a choice.

[RMT]

I find it interesting that you assume those of us that hate TO sold our playoff tix to opposing fans.

No more funny that the fact that you obviously didn't read my entire post ... see the word "some" in there?

[RMT]

Ignorance is bliss, funny how some of these a-holes are very rarely on this board to begin with. Talk about Band wagon jumpers.

Just because someone has upteen posts doesn't qualify him as an "expert." What's wrong with agreeing to disagree?

[Nuggets4]

No more funny that the fact that you obviously didn't read my entire post ... see the word "some" in there?

But your argument was asinine to begin with. I'm betting some of those fairweather fans are hoping we sign TO. I'm not even sure where the hell your statement came from, definately one of those "out of the blue" comments.

[Northman]

So much for the rumor that Denver is definitely Owens home. Mortenson just said it was a big " If " the Broncos players want Owens here. Nothing is a done deal.

[Hogan11]

So much for the rumor that Denver is definitely Owens home. Mortenson just said it was a big " If " the Broncos players want Owens here. Nothing is a done deal.

Good, there's still hope of passing him by then.

[jbiel]

Ignorance is bliss, funny how some of these a-holes are very rarely on this board to begin with. Talk about Band wagon jumpers.


No reason to call anyone an a-hole for not having 5000 posts. Just cause you have an oppinion, doesn't mean everyone has to bow down and agree with you. I understand what you're trying to say about TO and respect your oppinion. I'm still unsure, but I'm willing to take a chance.

If he ruins the team, oh well. We dump him and hopefully make some moves to get back to the superbowl. We all want the same overall prize here!!!

I just want free agency and the draft to get here so we can see what we got to work with...

[RMT]

No reason to call anyone an a-hole for not having 5000 posts. Just cause you have an oppinion, doesn't mean everyone has to bow down and agree with you. I understand what you're trying to say about TO and respect your oppinion. I'm still unsure, but I'm willing to take a chance.

If he ruins the team, oh well. We dump him and hopefully make some moves to get back to the superbowl. We all want the same overall prize here!!!

I just want free agency and the draft to get here so we can see what we got to work with...

I want us to be aggressive and take risks, whether that be pursuing TO or making some noise in the draft. We're SO close to getting back to the SB.

[Northman]

Ive said what ive needed to say on this but until something is set in stone im not going to worry about it anymore.

[No1BroncoFan]

Here's something i was really thinking about yesterday...

TO came to a team in Philly who had HUGE success in the past few seasons. No superbowl, but the team had alot of experience together. It was like our team is now, only i think our team is a little closer. TO came, and suddenly after two seasons things went bad. Amazing part is, some players from philly were siding with TO!!!

Can you honestly say that if TO came to Denver, and started messing things up, that even ONE player would be on his side? Are you kidding me?? You think Rod's gonna turn on Jake, or Champ is gonna turn on John and Al. NO FREAKING WAY! How it happened in Philly i have NO CLUE. How do you let the new guy come in and cause problems and then decide that your bond with your teamates just isn't important anymore?

To me this says something.. and that is..

The Eagles weren't as close a team as you may have believed. Nobody on the team can really be considered a leader, at least when you are talking about guys like Al Wilson, John Lynch, Champ Bailey, and Jake Plummer. Just because an athlete is a GREAT PLAYER, doesn't mean he's a GREAT LEADER. There may have been 1 or possibly 2 guys that everyone looks up to because of how long they have been there, but nothing like what we have.

Like it or not, if Shanny wants him, he will be ours, he will be ours.
To me it says TO is a bigger locker room cancer than we all thought. He will cause problems here and will likely fracture the team. Just say no to TO.

Ben

[fontaine]

To me it says TO is a bigger locker room cancer than we all thought. He will cause problems here and will likely fracture the team. Just say no to TO.

Ben

Exactly.

I don't understand what the fascination is with bringing this guy in. It's not like TO is a proven SuperBowl winner and is sporting three or four rings? The last time I checked recent SuperBowl winners did't have a big time playmaking WR like TO and they did just fine. Harrison, Moss etc are all still ringless like TO.

The last couple of SuperBowl winners have done it by Defense and having a ball control offense that doesn't turn it over in the passing game and that's still the best way to win.

If we bring in TO, yeah our passing game will improve, but would we still be able to bring great pass rush? Would our defense be able to carry us? Would our running game be hot and cold?

Would TO even make it all the way through 16-18 games behaving himself?

That last time I checked TO was celebrating his birthday in December in Atlantic City and when asked about his recent problems in Philly he said he isn't going to change!

If we're gonna take a risk, let's take one that doesn't involve a self centered attention whore with the emotional IQ of a 5 year old spoiled brat.

Why not target someone like Givens, or Bryant, or Moulds and then move up to draft White? That's the kind of risk I would be ok with.

[Sassy]

Why not target someone like Givens, or Bryant, or Moulds and then move up to draft White? That's the kind of risk I would be ok with.
__________________

Joe "Very Vicious" ;D

[FADERPROOF]

How could he make a play when is QB was about to pass out? He probably would have made a play if McNabb had been in any ponsition to get him the ball. WRs don't control the ball enough to be able to determine their teams destiny championship wise, but T.O. came as close as you can from the WR position to carrying his team to victory in a Super Bowl. Too bad McNabb wasn't up to the task.

That choking QB got them to a Super Bowl with Freddi Mitchell as his #1 WR, while Terrell Owens was sitting on the sidelines with an ankle injury.

[Odysseus]

I am so sick of this T.O. discussion. Last post...bounce.

[chadta]

can we get back to the i have more posts so i am smarter discussion, it reminds me of all the sportbike boards that i go to where the guys with 10,000 posts think that they are the best and fastest riders. I gotta wonder tho with all those posts how much time do they actually spend riding. Yeah i know way off topic, but what the heck, thinking and talking about this isnt going to change anything, if you like it great, if you dont great, ill decede if it happens till then who cares.

its hockey season

Go flyers

[BroncoInferno]

That choking QB got them to a Super Bowl with Freddi Mitchell as his #1 WR, while Terrell Owens was sitting on the sidelines with an ankle injury.

A broken ankle that was supposed to have him miss the rest of the season. T.O. showed real competitive spirit to not only get back, but turn in an MVP caliber performance. Too bad McNabb couldn't match his teammates effort or they would have won.

Yeah, I'm real impressed at McNabb for coasting into the Super Bowl against wretched NFC competition. The only reason they had a chance to actually win the Super Bowl was T.O., and they might have done it if McNabb hadn't pulled a Jackie Harris. I don't like the guy personally,he is an ass; but it is nothing but spin to act like the guy isn't a top competitor who played a major role in getting the Eagles to the Super Bowl.

[freak6]

TO just signed a deal to have a reality TV series.

[watermock]

can we get back to the i have more posts so i am smarter discussion, it reminds me of all the sportbike boards that i go to where the guys with 10,000 posts think that they are the best and fastest riders. I gotta wonder tho with all those posts how much time do they actually spend riding. Yeah i know way off topic, but what the heck, thinking and talking about this isnt going to change anything, if you like it great, if you dont great, ill decede if it happens till then who cares.

its hockey season

Go flyers

24 or 50,024 posts, each goes on it's own merit. Rookies usually take their lumps or run off...We don't beat down youngsers or count posts...bring your game...mello and lebron are youngins and have more than I will make in my life...doesn't mean they both get a free meal.

Post count means nothing.

[baja]

A broken ankle that was supposed to have him miss the rest of the season. T.O. showed real competitive spirit to not only get back, but turn in an MVP caliber performance. Too bad McNabb couldn't match his teammates effort or they would have won.

Yeah, I'm real impressed at McNabb for coasting into the Super Bowl against wretched NFC competition. The only reason they had a chance to actually win the Super Bowl was T.O., and they might have done it if McNabb hadn't pulled a Jackie Harris. I don't like the guy personally,he is an ass; but it is nothing but spin to act like the guy isn't a top competitor who played a major role in getting the Eagles to the Super Bowl.


You mean Rush was right??

[bendog]

Not lobbying for TO, but the Duke says Den is both "close" to a super bowl team, but isn't a team that can come back. I'm looking at the list, and aside from the Vultures and maybe Chucky's TB team, the winners could play from behind.

http://www.superbowl.com/history/boxscores

[bronco militia]

TO just signed a deal to have a reality TV series.


ugh....just say no to TO.

Owens looking for a real TV deal

Banyan Productions will feature T.O. and his "witty personality" in a reality show.

By Bob BrookoverInquirer Staff WriterT.O. TV.

If locally based Banyan Productions can cut a deal with one of the seven million TV networks out there, Terrell Owens television will become the latest in a never-ending line of "reality" programs in the not-too-distant future.

The soon-to-be former Eagles wide receiver has reached an agreement with Banyan, which is best known for its production of Trading Spaces on TLC.

Banyan said in a news release that T.O. TV plans to combine Owens' "passion for working out with his natural curiosity about other people."

The release said: "Guests on the show will come from the worlds of sports, entertainment and even politics - and no subject will be off limits. The show will rely on T.O.'s witty personality and tendency to speak his mind."

Banyan executive Tom Fowler said his company is in negotiations with several networks that have an interest in the show......

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13865003.htm

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

ugh....just say no to TO.

Owens looking for a real TV deal

Banyan Productions will feature T.O. and his "witty personality" in a reality show.

By Bob BrookoverInquirer Staff WriterT.O. TV.

If locally based Banyan Productions can cut a deal with one of the seven million TV networks out there, Terrell Owens television will become the latest in a never-ending line of "reality" programs in the not-too-distant future.

The soon-to-be former Eagles wide receiver has reached an agreement with Banyan, which is best known for its production of Trading Spaces on TLC.

Banyan said in a news release that T.O. TV plans to combine Owens' "passion for working out with his natural curiosity about other people."

The release said: "Guests on the show will come from the worlds of sports, entertainment and even politics - and no subject will be off limits. The show will rely on T.O.'s witty personality and tendency to speak his mind."

Banyan executive Tom Fowler said his company is in negotiations with several networks that have an interest in the show......

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13865003.htm

Another reason i don't watch much TV. :thumbsdow