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View Full Version : If Lelie is traded, do you consider him a bust?


FADERPROOF
02-10-2006, 06:17 PM
Just curious here, but if Ashley Lelie is traded to wherever, do we call him a bust or not?

Clockwork Orange
02-10-2006, 06:18 PM
Not at all.

ludo21
02-10-2006, 06:21 PM
no, led nfl in ypc. that was worth it.

Swedish Extrovert
02-10-2006, 06:36 PM
I personally think he is fine, he just needs to be more consistant in the short game.

Spider
02-10-2006, 06:40 PM
No lelie wasnt a bust ... even if he is traded ......of course all bets are off if he goes to the raiders .......

SoCalBronco
02-10-2006, 06:43 PM
Hell No.

rbackfactory80
02-10-2006, 07:03 PM
Busts don't have thousand yard seasons.

watermock
02-10-2006, 07:13 PM
Well, the fact is YPC doesn't convert third and short, and that is what keeps drives alive. Rod Smith keeps drives alive...TD kept drives alive...MA keeps drives alive...even the Putz. It's nice to see the occasional first down bomb to Lelie, but whatever.

All I know is he's going into his final year and unless we get him redone, I think he's on the block. I simply haven't heard many ringing endorsements, but a new deal is possible....the plot thickens...

16-JakE-16
02-10-2006, 07:13 PM
absolutely not. anyone who thinks otherwise should just turn off their computer right about now.

FADERPROOF
02-10-2006, 07:16 PM
son of a bitch...I just voted for yes and really meant no.

Way to **** up my own damn poll question...

Rock Chalk
02-10-2006, 07:17 PM
No lelie wasnt a bust ... even if he is traded ......of course all bets are off if he goes to the raiders .......
Best.Post.Ever.

Rock Chalk
02-10-2006, 07:18 PM
son of a b****...I just voted for yes and really meant no.

Way to **** up my own damn poll question...
[insert smartass comment]

FADERPROOF
02-10-2006, 07:19 PM
[insert smartass comment]

I deserve it, that just sucked, especially considering that Ashley is one of my favorite players and I have his jersey even.

ludo21
02-10-2006, 07:23 PM
I deserve it, that just sucked, especially considering that Ashley is one of my favorite players and I have his jersey even.


yeah right, ASH hater!!!!

Macnut
02-10-2006, 07:41 PM
I think Shannahan, Plummer, and the entire OL a bust! Oh yeah including Popps and Co. too.

Bob's your Information Minister
02-10-2006, 07:50 PM
Hell No.

Hahahahahaha.

Clockwork Orange
02-10-2006, 07:51 PM
Hahahahahaha.

It took Lelie 2 years to have a 1000 yard season. It took Quittison 9.

FADERPROOF
02-10-2006, 07:53 PM
It took Lelie 2 years to have a 1000 yard season. It took Quittison 9.

stats don't mean ****, and neither have a Pro Bowl appearance. so to Bob they are basically the same receiver.

Bob's your Information Minister
02-10-2006, 07:53 PM
It took Lelie 2 years to have a 1000 yard season. It took Quittison 9.
Master of deflection!

Anyway, like Kennison, 3 years is way too soon to call any WR a bust, especially when that WR had over 1,000 yards and 7 TDs in his third year.

Maybe Ashley will be a late bloomer like Eddie.

Vegas_Bronco
02-10-2006, 07:54 PM
Lelie just needs an f-ing qB who has long ball accuracy - the guy is a streak and one hell of a WR.

Clockwork Orange
02-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Master of deflection!

Anyway, like Kennison, 3 years is way too soon to call any WR a bust, especially when that WR had over 1,000 yards and 7 TDs in his third year.

Maybe Ashley will be a late bloomer like Eddie.

I'm not deflecting anything, wad gobbler. Just pointing out that you don't have much room to call anyone's receivers a bust when you've got a guy on your squad who's played for half the teams in the league and took 9 years to get a 1000 yard season after being a 1st round pick.

Seeing as he's already led the league in YPC twice and had a 1000 yard season in just 3 years in the league, I don't see how anyone can possibly call him a bust.

Bob's your Information Minister
02-10-2006, 07:59 PM
I'm not deflecting anything, wad gobbler. Just pointing out that you don't have much room to call anyone's receivers a bust when you've got a guy on your squad who's played for half the teams in the league and took 9 years to get a 1000 yard season after being a 1st round pick.

Seeing as he's already led the league in YPC twice and had a 1000 yard season in just 3 years in the league, I don't see how anyone can possibly call him a bust.

I didn't call him a bust. I think you guys should hold onto Lelie, because even if you get T.O. you're going to have some old-ass WRs without Lelie.

Clockwork Orange
02-10-2006, 08:00 PM
I didn't call him a bust. I think you guys should hold onto Lelie, because even if you get T.O. you're going to have some old-ass WRs without Lelie.

Oh yes, I forgot, Rod Smith is old and slow. :laugh:

Bob's your Information Minister
02-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Oh yes, I forgot, Rod Smith is old and slow. :laugh:

;D

Ratboy
02-10-2006, 08:45 PM
He's not a bust, but he also didn't fit this system. He also had a QB who under threw him a dozen times.

Hulamau
02-10-2006, 10:21 PM
I didn't call him a bust. I think you guys should hold onto Lelie, because even if you get T.O. you're going to have some old-ass WRs without Lelie.


You are right there Bob, my already luke warm feeligns about TO here are a lot colder without Lelie in the mix. No one could double them either one with both of them out there and it would make life a hell of a lot easier all the way around. I hope he winds up staying one more year and takes teh money esle where if the TO thing works out next year.

Ash wants to show what he can do now as a #1 and he's paid his dues, and probably in fariness to Ash Shanahan might agree to trade him now so he can really let loose as a #1 somehere else next year and garner an even much bigger pay day in 07. That is unless he gets a reqorred long range deal as part of the trade.

On the thread question ...is he a Bust? ,... get real!! Remember, the thousand yard season was as a #2 as well, and not many #2WR rack up 1100yrd seasons with run-oriented offenses.

Kaylore
02-10-2006, 11:57 PM
I voted no, but it depends on how much we get him for.

Arkie
02-11-2006, 02:31 AM
Ashley Lelie is a little above average at this point.

1998-2002 1ST RD RECEIVERS
yardage over first four years
1. Randy Moss 5396
2. Torry Holt 5088
3. Plaxico Burress 3466
4. Kevin Johnson 3455
5. David Boston 3227
6. Koren Robinson 3167
7. Reggie Wayne 3109
8. Ashley Lelie 3007
9. Rod Gardner 2997
10. Donte Stallworth 2791
11. Peter Warrick 2684
12. Javon Walker 2444
13. Santana Moss 2416
14. Travis Taylor 2337
15. Kevin Dyson 1850
16. David Terrell 1602
17. Dennis Northcutt 1423
18. Troy Edwards 1369
19. Freddie Mitchell 1263
20. Sylvester Morris 678
21. R. Jay Soward 154
22. Marcus Nash 76

yardage is a good thing, but different folks have different definitions for "bust"

Archer81
02-11-2006, 02:33 AM
drafted to be the vertical threat in the Broncos passing game...which he is. Has had a 1000 yard season, and for the 2nd year running has led the NFL in YPC. Not a bust.

:Broncos:

Kaylore
02-11-2006, 02:38 AM
drafted to be the vertical threat in the Broncos passing game...which he is. Has had a 1000 yard season, and for the 2nd year running has led the NFL in YPC. Not a bust.

:Broncos:
I agree. I guess I'm confused by this poll. Portis wasn't a bust and he was traded. What does trading a player have to do with being a bust? That logic doesn't follow. Great players and bad players are traded all the time. If we trade him for something crappy then the trade is a bust. If we trade him for something awesome, the trade is good. Neither affects his skill or performance.

Odysseus
02-11-2006, 05:59 AM
Lelie was anything but a bust. He did what he could within the system that was in front of him regardless of trade rumors.

We need a more physical WR who can bust open some tough yards. I would rather have Steve Smith than Terrell Owens but who wouldn't? How did anyone see that little guy being that good?

elsid13
02-11-2006, 06:40 AM
Lelie was anything but a bust. He did what he could within the system that was in front of him regardless of trade rumors.

We need a more physical WR who can bust open some tough yards. I would rather have Steve Smith than Terrell Owens but who wouldn't? How did anyone see that little guy being that good?


I would rather have Andre Johnson of Texans. Hey Gary lets make a deal.

Odysseus
02-11-2006, 08:03 AM
I would rather have Andre Johnson of Texans. Hey Gary lets make a deal.

That would be sweet too!

DrFate
02-11-2006, 11:03 AM
This kind of reaction is amusing.

If the same poll were posted and the name 'Ashlie Lelie' were replaced with 'Deltha O'Neal' - it would be a landslide for BUST. O'Neal went to the Pro Bowl as a Bronco. And as a Bengal. Lelie is far from the Pro Bowl.

I wish the guy only the best, but the homerism for Lelie is suprising to me. He's a nice player, but if you compare him to other WRs taken in the 1st round of the 02 draft (Donte Stallworth and Javon Walker) - I'd say Lelie is the least of the 3 players.

I won't use the term bust with Lelie, but I will say he has been borderline disappointing.

DB-Freak
02-11-2006, 11:10 AM
Deltha Oneal sucked with Denver.

Pro Bowl is hardly an indicator for greatness.

Oneal had one game that launched him into one probowl season with us.

DrFate
02-11-2006, 12:24 PM
Deltha Oneal sucked with Denver.

Pro Bowl is hardly an indicator for greatness.

Oneal had one game that launched him into one probowl season with us.

He has lead the conference in INTs twice. I think you'd be hard pressed to show he has had a 'worse' career Lelie.

DB-Freak
02-11-2006, 01:50 PM
He has lead the conference in INTs twice. I think you'd be hard pressed to show he has had a 'worse' career Lelie.
Ints are not even a decent indictator of how well a CB played.

Top 15 pick(four spots higher than lelie) who was a damn reach to begin with.

He made plays and is a ball hawk somewhat, but he got scorched often, couldn't hit, couldnt jam, and didn't have the short term memory a CB needs and sulked around.

Denard was the much better cover CB than Oneal when he was in Denver although his career has gone to the dumps since then.

Northman
02-11-2006, 01:53 PM
Depends, put him with the Colts and see what happens. i think we all know the answer to that.

DB-Freak
02-11-2006, 01:53 PM
Using statistics to rate a CB is laughable at best.

Plus Lelie is in his fourth year while Deltha is in his 6th which is one where he lead the conference in INTs.

I would wait it out first.

RMT
02-11-2006, 02:03 PM
No way ... Marcus Nash is a true bust ...

ChampBailey24
02-11-2006, 02:04 PM
Ashley Lelie is a little above average at this point.

1998-2002 1ST RD RECEIVERS
yardage over first four years
1. Randy Moss 5396
2. Torry Holt 5088
3. Plaxico Burress 3466
4. Kevin Johnson 3455
5. David Boston 3227
6. Koren Robinson 3167
7. Reggie Wayne 3109
8. Ashley Lelie 3007
9. Rod Gardner 2997
10. Donte Stallworth 2791
11. Peter Warrick 2684
12. Javon Walker 2444
13. Santana Moss 2416
14. Travis Taylor 2337
15. Kevin Dyson 1850
16. David Terrell 1602
17. Dennis Northcutt 1423
18. Troy Edwards 1369
19. Freddie Mitchell 1263
20. Sylvester Morris 678
21. R. Jay Soward 154
22. Marcus Nash 76

yardage is a good thing, but different folks have different definitions for "bust"

haha yes marcus nash!!! props to my boy hahaha
Hilarious!

DrFate
02-11-2006, 04:32 PM
Using statistics to rate a CB is laughable at best.

Plus Lelie is in his fourth year while Deltha is in his 6th which is one where he lead the conference in INTs.

I would wait it out first.

I get such a kick out of threads like this. You say 'using stats to rate a CB' is no good, yet every Lelie supporter hangs their hat on a silly little stat like YPC. Hilarious!

You are right that INTs aren't the only measure of a corner. And I realize that O'Neal is hated around here because he ended up in the doghouse and got traded. But the blatant homerism just kills me. One minute everyone wants to hype up somebody like Lynch because he makes the Pro Bowl based on little more than reputation - and the next they say 'making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean that much'. :giggle:

I'm a Denver fan and have been one for 20 years. But seeing people hype up Broncos (regardless of their play) and bash ex-Broncos just amuses me to no end.

Arkie
02-11-2006, 05:02 PM
How was Deltha not a bust in Denver? I thought that when a coach says, "CB isn't working, let's try WR," That sounds like a 1st round CB bust.

DB-Freak
02-11-2006, 06:12 PM
I get such a kick out of threads like this. You say 'using stats to rate a CB' is no good, yet every Lelie supporter hangs their hat on a silly little stat like YPC. Hilarious!

You are right that INTs aren't the only measure of a corner. And I realize that O'Neal is hated around here because he ended up in the doghouse and got traded. But the blatant homerism just kills me. One minute everyone wants to hype up somebody like Lynch because he makes the Pro Bowl based on little more than reputation - and the next they say 'making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean that much'. :giggle:

I'm a Denver fan and have been one for 20 years. But seeing people hype up Broncos (regardless of their play) and bash ex-Broncos just amuses me to no end.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/rofl2.gif

I am not exactly sure who you are directing this at with the change of people who you are referring to, but I'm gonna guess that it is all on me so I can respond back easier. If not take this with a grain of salt.

First, realize the difference between posters and don't generalize. I have not directly commented in Lelie's defense in fact I defended Plummer on several occasions in those threads. Since I never directly commented about Lelie expect maybe once about the pretty catches he makes on occasions, how could I be using silly little stats like YPC to defend Lelie.

If you could find a post by me saying Pro Bowl is a valid stat for greatness, I'll
E-worship you. But it won't happen, because i never said it and on the contrarary I said I don't think Pro Bowl status is really a valid measurement of greatness except on blatant occasions anyway. Yes I do realize some of the fans contradict themselves on the probowl issue.

Yes the if you are not with us, you're against us mentality can be pretty funny, but it's not that uncommon nor is it unnatural. I'm glad it amuses you though.

Me bash O'neal? Never!! How is it bashing when I'm telling it like I sees em. He was green as hell and he was very inconsistent when he was with denver. He was a top 15 pick four stops higher than Lelie. There was and is a reason why O'neal was or is still a number 2 CB instead of blossoming into that number corner one matching up against the opposing team's best WR. Denard Walker? Tory James?

And I think using offensive stats to grade a WR is much more valid than using defensive stats to grade CBs.

Do you not agree? Do defensive stats such as INTs show how many yards the CB gave up and how many times the CB got burned for a long gain?

Nuggets4
02-11-2006, 06:22 PM
son of a b****...I just voted for yes and really meant no.

Way to **** up my own damn poll question...

Glad to know I'm not the only moron. I was another who voted yes but meant to vote no.

Macnut
02-11-2006, 09:51 PM
True measure of the term "BUST".....

1-Someone who doesn't make it in the NFL.?
2-Someone who doesn't start?
3-Someone who is not wanted by any team?

BroncoSoja
02-11-2006, 10:36 PM
I get such a kick out of threads like this. You say 'using stats to rate a CB' is no good, yet every Lelie supporter hangs their hat on a silly little stat like YPC. Hilarious!

You are right that INTs aren't the only measure of a corner. And I realize that O'Neal is hated around here because he ended up in the doghouse and got traded. But the blatant homerism just kills me. One minute everyone wants to hype up somebody like Lynch because he makes the Pro Bowl based on little more than reputation - and the next they say 'making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean that much'. :giggle:

I'm a Denver fan and have been one for 20 years. But seeing people hype up Broncos (regardless of their play) and bash ex-Broncos just amuses me to no end.

Rofl yeah thats 90% of these forums.. When I had a different account around here during the Portis years everyone and there mother was like "Go SOINC!!!" or "CP is the man"... As soon as he asked to be paid more money then people that were on special teams people on this board were crapping all over him. Like you these Homers amuse the hell out of me, everyone that is not playing in a Bronco uniform is the enemy..

But for a few of us we appreciate all Broncos, both former and current. And to me those are the true Bronco Fans.

BroncoSoja
02-11-2006, 10:42 PM
Oh yes, I forgot, Rod Smith is old and slow. :laugh:

Comical.....Rod unlike Lelie doesnt have to just rely on his speed, he actually can cause seperation. Most of the games this year Rod was doubled teamed and still produced well, what do you think will happen if we get TO and Jake is actually able to get the ball to him.


I could care less if Lelie gets 50 ypc its his TD's that count.. And last I checked he is severly lacking in that area... SEVERLY.

I will say that I think Lelie probably suffers a bit due us having Plummer as a QB. So we may never really know if he is a true bust or not if he stays and Plummer continues to be our QB.

Clockwork Orange
02-11-2006, 10:47 PM
Rofl yeah thats 90% of these forums.. When I had a different account around here during the Portis years everyone and there mother was like "Go SOINC!!!" or "CP is the man"... As soon as he asked to be paid more money then people that were on special teams people on this board were crapping all over him. Like you these Homers amuse the hell out of me, everyone that is not playing in a Bronco uniform is the enemy..

But for a few of us we appreciate all Broncos, both former and current. And to me those are the true Bronco Fans.

What's really amusing is you saying that the true Bronco fans appreciate current and former Broncos. Yet just about every post of yours is spent bitching about Jake Plummer, a current Bronco.

Guess you're not a true Bronco fan. Too bad.

Crushaholic
02-12-2006, 01:28 AM
Lelie's job is to stretch the defense and make the difficult catches. He did that very well. Any YAC is just gravy. He made the secondary back off of our running game. Personally, I hope we keep him...

elsid13
02-12-2006, 08:14 AM
Lelie's job is to stretch the defense and make the difficult catches. He did that very well. Any YAC is just gravy. He made the secondary back off of our running game. Personally, I hope we keep him...


That exactly right. That the role Shanahan and Kubes decided they want him to play in this offense. Not only did he force the safeties to play honest in run game, and opening up the underneath stuff for Smith and Tight Ends, but he was the only one able to do that. Smith doesn't have the speed to threaten anything deep on constant bases. Another reason that we don't see Lelie on a lot crossing passes or interment stuff. Who else are do we have to do that right now???

-Slap-
02-12-2006, 08:40 AM
http://www.recruitaarontorrez.com/images/alivsterrel.gif

Great sigline DB-Freak. Ali ruined an entire generation of young fighters who attempted to copy that defensive technique.

His performance against Terrell was Ali at his most merciless.

DrFate
02-12-2006, 09:14 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/rofl2.gif

I am not exactly sure who you are directing this at with the change of people who you are referring to, but I'm gonna guess that it is all on me so I can respond back easier. If not take this with a grain of salt.

First, realize the difference between posters and don't generalize. I have not directly commented in Lelie's defense in fact I defended Plummer on several occasions in those threads. Since I never directly commented about Lelie expect maybe once about the pretty catches he makes on occasions, how could I be using silly little stats like YPC to defend Lelie.

Freak,
That is a good post and you are right - I was generalizing what you said lumped together with what a lot of other posters said. I appreciate the fact you took it as such.

Lelie is a pretty good player. I think he's disappointing because when I see a 1st round pick I want an impact player. And he simply hasn't consistently been an impact player. A lot of posters keep pointing to YPC like that is the end all/be all of WRs. He had 42 catches and 1 TD. That isn't an impact player.

Add these numbers to the fact that a large number of posters feel Lelie could be traded straight up for a 1st round pick, and I just see blatant homerism. I can't see anybody giving up something that high for a guy who put up Lelie's numbers.

I'm not a Deltha fan. I'm just trying to make a non-homerized comparison between 2 recent first round picks - one guy is called a bust on this forum while the other (allegedly) can be traded for a 1st round pick. I still contend that O'Neal has had a better career than Lelie. I agree that INTs are far from the only measure of a corner. But I think you have to start somewhere.

O'Neal has led the AFC in picks twice and been to 2 Pro Bowls. Lelie had a good 04 season and a disappointing 05 season. I hope Lelie stays and becomes a star.

Odysseus
02-12-2006, 10:34 AM
http://www.recruitaarontorrez.com/images/alivsterrel.gif

Great sigline DB-Freak. Ali ruined an entire generation of young fighters who attempted to copy that defensive technique.

His performance against Terrell was Ali at his most merciless.

That image IS incredible. He's like a big cat playing with his food.

DB-Freak
02-12-2006, 10:38 AM
His reflexes were inhuman.

12th man
02-12-2006, 10:40 AM
Lelie is a pretty good player. I think he's disappointing because when I see a 1st round pick I want an impact player. And he simply hasn't consistently been an impact player. A lot of posters keep pointing to YPC like that is the end all/be all of WRs. He had 42 catches and 1 TD. That isn't an impact player.

I agree with you with that point. At times he makes these amazing catches and keeps drives/games alive. Some games he does good the the short routes. Then it's like he couldn't catch a cold. I understand to Pummer is at fault for some of it, but people just can't blame plummer for all of it. Plummer can be inconsistant as well but Lelie is more inconsistant. Rod smith said in an article, I don't know wich one, somthing to the effect of Lelie needs to up his game, and he could be in the pro bowl. With that said I think we need to keep him. What if next year we have TO, Rod, and Ash has a year like the year before? We would be unstoppable. I say we keep him. Even if he has a year like this year that's fine with me because him being the third wr,(if we get TO) I think it will be better matchups against the opposing D, and we will still have his deep ball threat. I say keep him.

-Slap-
02-12-2006, 12:36 PM
That image IS incredible. He's like a big cat playing with his food.
Ernie Terrell made the gigantic miscalcualtion of repeatedly calling Ali by the name Clay in the weeks before the fight. Since Ali couldn't beat down racist pukes like Dick Young who were doing the same thing to him in the media, Terrell had to pay everyone's tab.

Ali carried him for the full 15 rounds, clowned him throughout and punctuated each stinging combination by shouting, "What's my name!"

http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/9903/two.jpg

watermock
02-12-2006, 12:54 PM
That's amusing...like a cat playing with a ball of yarn before it finally just paws it under the bed. Your quite the boxing expert Slappy...being in Vegas I'm not really surprised.

I was always amazed by that rope-a-dope routine in his later years...how could you take such a body beating...I understand he was trying to wear the opponent out...but I've never seen anything before, or anything since like it regarding that tactic.

-Slap-
02-12-2006, 01:01 PM
That's amusing...like a cat playing with a ball of yarn before it finally just paws it under the bed. Your quite the boxing expert Slappy...being in Vegas I'm not really surprised.

I was always amazed by that rope-a-dope routine in his later years...how could you take such a body beating...I understand he was trying to wear the opponent out...but I've never seen anything before, or anything since like it regarding that tactic.
One of the more amazing things about Ali was the way he reinvented himself after his reinstatement. The rope-a-dope was amazing. There's a reason why only one fighter has ever utilized it, though. Ali took a hell of a beating perfecting that style in training. He realized it was the only way he could beat the younger and stronger George Foreman.

RhymesayersDU
03-29-2010, 07:49 PM
He's an all-star.