awesome video

[loborugger]

Your precious video, which I have seen before, is a bunch of stringed together thoughts, not logically ordered, displayed in a rapid fire manner. Its like a shell game. If I was truly trying to make point, I would slow it down, turn off the damn music, and present the thoughts in a rational manner, not on a timeline starting in 1961. However, if I was trying to confuse someone and pull a fast one, I would run facts at them quickly, outta order, and with distracting images & music.

You obviously will believe what you want. I am done with this.

[baja]

Your precious video, which I have seen before, is a bunch of stringed together thoughts, not logically ordered, displayed in a rapid fire manner. Its like a shell game. If I was truly trying to make point, I would slow it down, turn off the damn music, and present the thoughts in a rational manner, not on a timeline starting in 1961. However, if I was trying to confuse someone and pull a fast one, I would run facts at them quickly, outta order, and with distracting images & music.

You obviously will believe what you want. I am done with this.

Granted the thing is very amateurishly done but what about the Ben Laden photos and the lack of plane parts at the pentagon site and where is the gold?

This video raises some valid questions and you suggest the solution is shoot the messenger. Why, is it un-American to question these things?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I am no expert , if I was Iwouldnt drive a truck ,but what about the screws(or what ever holds thedamnthing togrther ) ? how hot do they have to bebefore they give away ?andif they give away the metal has to go somewhere ,and since we have gravity on this planet.............Now the pentagon stuff I dont buy , seems like someone is pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining outside

:) Bolted connection plates. There were some welded connections also. A36 steel for most of the columns and A325 bolts. The exterior column bolted connections failed (sheared not melted).

[yavoon]

Your precious video, which I have seen before, is a bunch of stringed together thoughts, not logically ordered, displayed in a rapid fire manner. Its like a shell game. If I was truly trying to make point, I would slow it down, turn off the damn music, and present the thoughts in a rational manner, not on a timeline starting in 1961. However, if I was trying to confuse someone and pull a fast one, I would run facts at them quickly, outta order, and with distracting images & music.

You obviously will believe what you want. I am done with this.

I thought the background of the gov'ts willingness to perform coverups and operations of this nature was helpful, sorry u thought giving background was a dumb idea. its not my precious video, but i would like to point out that this is the thread about it.

[Tombstone RJ]

I haven't watched it yet but I don't have to to know at what point they think steel columns melt. I've been erecting them most of my adult life. For your information, mild steel, chromium alloys and even some stainless alloys have a melting point of around 3000 degreesF (2800 for the steel columns). The columns did not melt. That is not what brought down the towers.

I've explained in the simplest terms I can.

Again, there are compelling arguements about why or why not the towers should have collapsed. And again, its not like the vid doesnt address ligitimate questions, it does, or at least it tries to.

Anyhow, if you refuse to watch the vid., fine. However, its a little strange to comment on something you haven't watched, and then claim you have all the knowledge you need to make a jugdement on the vid, based on your past personal experience. At least watch it before you brush it off. Hell, I'd think you WANT to actually watch it, just so you can specifically refute what its saying.

[yavoon]

Granted the thing is very amateurishly done but what about the Ben Laden photos and the lack of plane parts at the pentagon site and where is the gold?

This vidio raises some valid questions and you suggest the solution is shoot the messanger. Why is it unAmerican to question these things?

I dont think its amateurish at all unless by amateurish u mean lacking in a major film studio's budget. think of the time it took to compile an hour and 20 minutes of footage that diverse w/ what? a thousand different references, technical specs, photos, animations, a fully rehearsed script.

this video took time, a lot of it.

[Tombstone RJ]

Your precious video, which I have seen before, is a bunch of stringed together thoughts, not logically ordered, displayed in a rapid fire manner. Its like a shell game. If I was truly trying to make point, I would slow it down, turn off the damn music, and present the thoughts in a rational manner, not on a timeline starting in 1961. However, if I was trying to confuse someone and pull a fast one, I would run facts at them quickly, outta order, and with distracting images & music.

You obviously will believe what you want. I am done with this.

Wow, you ain't watching the same vid. I was. The producers obviously did alot of research. They tied all their points together. They painted a pretty valid picture. Oh, and if you want to slow the vid. down, hit the pause or the rewind. I know I did a couple of times...

[baja]

I dont think its amateurish at all unless by amateurish u mean lacking in a major film studio's budget. think of the time it took to compile an hour and 20 minutes of footage that diverse w/ what? a thousand different references, technical specs, photos, animations, a fully rehearsed script.

this video took time, a lot of it.

It is an amateurish work that raises some intriguing questions.

[yavoon]

It is an amateurish work that raises some intriguing questions.

I guess we just disagree on the skill and time required to make that video.

[Tombstone RJ]

It is an amateurish work that raises some intriguing questions.

Its not amateurish in its research. However, it isn't a Michael Moore production either.

And for any one who cares... I HATE MICHAEL MOORE AND HIS BS CRAP PRODUCTIONS.

[Spider]

:) Bolted connection plates. There were some welded connections also. A36 steel for most of the columns and A325 bolts. The exterior column bolted connections failed (sheared not melted).
Just so I understand . the thingamabob connected to the whatmacallit failed and caused the doohickey to fall ........... right ;D ?

[baja]

I guess we just disagree on the skill and time required to make that video.

Time I'll give ya, no doubt that's true. Research is extensive as well but it is the work of a non professional documentary maker but that in no way diminishes the level of thought provoking content. it's the content that matters after all.

What I find interesting is the American people are questioning these events less than they did Clinton's blow job, I wonder why that it?

[yavoon]

Time I'll give ya, no doubt that's true. Research is extensive as well but it is the work of a non professional documentary maker but that in no way diminishes the level of thought provoking content. it's the content that matters after all.

What I find interesting is the American people are questioning these events less than they did Clinton's blow job, I wonder why that it?

just look at this thread, thinking this gets u in trouble. do I believe things happened exactly as in the video? probably not, but there is no shortage of strange crap surrounding this, nor is there a shortage of gov't lying its ass off.

so in the face of so many anomalis things, compounded by real documented history of the gov't hiding and lying about things. I dont see why there isnt more outrage for things like the SEC investigation, or the bin laden video, or the gold, or the videos/evidence that is being withheld. but hey maybe its hiding out in iraq w/ the wmd.

[Tombstone RJ]

just look at this thread, thinking this gets u in trouble. do I believe things happened exactly as in the video? probably not, but there is no shortage of strange crap surrounding this, nor is there a shortage of gov't lying its ass off.

so in the face of so many anomalis things, compounded by real documented history of the gov't hiding and lying about things. I dont see why there isnt more outrage for things like the SEC investigation, or the bin laden video, or the gold, or the videos/evidence that is being withheld. but hey maybe its hiding out in iraq w/ the wmd.

Yah, yah, yah, yavoon. I still think your a foreigner. Your not really an American, are you.

P.S. Why do you always refuse to answer my question about you nationality?

What are you hiding?

[yavoon]

Yah, yah, yah, yavoon. I still think your a foreigner. Your not really an American, are you.

P.S. Why do you always refuse to answer my question about you nationality?

What are you hiding?

I'm a terrorist, just trying to pickup a few pointers.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm a terrorist, just trying to pickup a few pointers.

Keep dodging my simple question.

[yavoon]

Keep dodging my simple question.

will do

[Tombstone RJ]

will do

Let me guess, your French...

[baja]

just look at this thread, thinking this gets u in trouble. do I believe things happened exactly as in the video? probably not, but there is no shortage of strange crap surrounding this, nor is there a shortage of gov't lying its ass off.

so in the face of so many anomalies things, compounded by real documented history of the gov't hiding and lying about things. I dont see why there isn't more outrage for things like the SEC investigation, or the bin laden video, or the gold, or the videos/evidence that is being withheld. but hey maybe its hiding out in iraq w/ the wmd.

Yes those pesky WMD certainly is the elephant in the middle of the room no body is talking about.

This is the one I really don't get. The pres. gets the US to attack a sovereign nation because he says he has info that he is not at liberty to share but to trust him that it is crucial to our safety that we attack Iraq now and he will provide evidence later in the form of a shiit load of dirty bombs that a madman is about to release on Burbank lest we shock and awe them back into the stone age right now. We still have not found those nasty weapons yet no one seems to give a shiit and that does not even consider the issue of being mired in iraq with no way out to be foreseen.

[Tombstone RJ]

Yes those pesky WMD certainly is the elephant in the middle of the room no body is talking about.

This is the one I really don't get. The pres. gets the US to attack a sovereign nation because he says he has info that he is not at liberty to share but to trust him that it is crucial to our safety that we attack Iraq now and he will provide evidence later in the form of a shiit load of dirty bombs that a madman is about to release on Burbank lest we shock and awe them back into the stone age right now. We still have not found those nasty weapons yet no one seems to give a shiit and that does not even consider the issue of being mired in iraq with no way out to be foreseen.

Is anything even happening in Iraq?

Unless I see something about US troops getting killed, or some kind of jihad crap going on, I don't hear much about Iraq...

Oh, and the WMD are in Syria, or don't you believe the far right on this subject?

Hell, for me, the far right and the far left are one in the same...Hilarious!

[Tombstone RJ]

Hey everyone!

I've found a way to silence yavoon. Just ask him what his nationality is. He'll dodge the question, then exit the thread. Works every time.

[baja]

Keep dodging my simple question.

Why would it matter where he is from?

[baja]

Is anything even happening in Iraq?

Unless I see something about US troops getting killed, or some kind of jihad crap going on, I don't hear much about Iraq...

Oh, and the WMD are in Syria, or don't you believe the far right on this subject?

Hell, for me, the far right and the far left are one in the same...Hilarious!

So lets bomb the shiit out of Syria than they will be in Iran.

[Tombstone RJ]

Why would it matter where he is from?

It doesn't. But I just find it ironic as hell that he keeps saying "why doesn't the US government tell us this or tell us that..." when he (or she) flat out refuses to answer my rather unimposing, yet simple question.

Oh, the irony...:spit:

[yavoon]

It doesn't. But I just find it ironic as hell that he keeps saying "why doesn't the US government tell us this or tell us that..." when he (or she) flat out refuses to answer my rather unimposing, yet simple question.

Oh, the irony...:spit:

I dont answer questions posed like that. sorry.

[Tombstone RJ]

I dont answer questions posed like that. sorry.

Definitely French...

[baja]

saddam said America would lose her will to fight and that is happening.

It is hard to fight a war that makes no sense.

Now go ahead and tell me how un-American I am for saying that

[Taco John]

Yah, yah, yah, yavoon. I still think your a foreigner. Your not really an American, are you.




For what it's worth, I can confirm that Yavoon posts from American IP addresses...

[yavoon]

For what it's worth, I can confirm that Yavoon posts from American IP addresses...

probably a trick

[TheDave]

saddam said America would lose her will to fight and that is happening.

It is hard to fight a war that makes no sense.

Now go ahead and tell me how un-American I am for saying that

your un-American for saying that...


(and your belief in the "Claw" is delusional)

[baja]

For what it's worth, I can confirm that Yavoon posts from American IP addresses...

You should not disclose that

can you tell where I post from?

[Taco John]

You should not disclose that

can you tell where I post from?



No one is going to believe this but you post from Mexico.

[Taco John]

probably a trick



That computer lab gets some heavy yavoon traffic.... ;)

[baja]

No one is going to believe this but you post from Mexico.

Ya well I'm CIA and I route my posts through Mexico and we got our eyes on you Taco. What kind of name is that anyway, we might want to see your papers.

[Taco John]

I would *think* that my papers would be pretty boring... But I've got a theory that no matter how mundane a life a person lives, somewhere there are charges that could be trumped up.

I guess my general distrust of government will always shine through, eh?

I can't help myself.

[Taco John]

Did I say mundane? I meant mundtastic!

[Atlas]

The video footage starting at 51 minutes and 45 seconds is some of the most compelling evidence I've seen of this being a planned demolition.

I agree. Listening to the firemen in the World Trade Towers talking about multiple explosions is very eerie.

[Rascal]

Taken from Popular Mechanics....

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=4&c=y

Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

Go figure, I said pretty much the exact same thing regarding the fireproofing insulation.

Regarding the melted steel...IMO it could have melted prior to the collapse, but just as likely if not more probable IMO is that it melted while it was buried as there was no place for the heat to go (there were fires and smoldering going on) thus the temperature went up and caused the steel to melt.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

OK, watched the video, Nothing I haven't seen or heard before.

Their so called experts they use are dubious at best. The so called explosions are vertical columns failing at bolted endplate connections, snapping outwards.

There was no molten steel except from the cuts using oxygen lances and cutting torches in the rescue effort afterwards. It's basically not possible for the fires without pure oxygen to melt steel.

They state the columns are ASTM E119 but in fact the overwhelming majority of them were A36 (manufactured in Japan). But it doesn't matter their standard as A36 through 119 have basically the same melting point.

3 college kids using nothing new, material that has been rehashed many times over, hoping to become film producers.

[Broncoman13]

OK, watched the video, Nothing I haven't seen or heard before.

Their so called experts they use are dubious at best. The so called explosions are vertical columns failing at bolted endplate connections, snapping outwards.

There was no molten steel except from the cuts using oxygen lances and cutting torches in the rescue effort afterwards. It's basically not possible for the fires without pure oxygen to melt steel.

They state the columns are ASTM E119 but in fact the overwhelming majority of them were A36 (manufactured in Japan). But it doesn't matter their standard as A36 through 119 have basically the same melting point.

3 college kids using nothing new, material that has been rehashed many times over, hoping to become film producers.

Thank you, and I was thinking something similar to the bolded paragraph when I watched the explosions. That our pressure relief of some kind???

Anyhow, I was never really in doubt about the WTC, but I do still have some questions about the Pent.

Somebody said earlier that security video is shot frame by frame or something like that. It's doesn't explain away the fact that there were several other videos that have never been shown. Nor does it explain the two airplanes. It doesn't explain the windows directly next to where the airplane impacted being whole, despite the fact that they should have been in the path of the airplane's wings. Last but not least, what about the pictures of Osama? That's troubling in my mind. Either way he is a filthy dirtbag that deserves nothing in this world... but were those video's of him or somebody else?

[smalltowngrll]

I think there are questions about this whole instance, but in my opinion, I think there are way more questions to answer if we believe that the American governement was in coherts with Bin Laden.

Regarding the photos, they do look very much different than each other, but that could be for a couple of different reasons. I do remember that there was an occasion where there was the possiblity of Bin Laden being killed. Al Qaida would not necessarily want the world to know that he had been killed, so why not find someone that looks similar step in. Try and fool the world? (This is just my theory...not stating it factually).

When I watched the video...the first thing I realized when they were showing the other expolosions in the buildings was what Bronco Bearslug said "Their so called experts they use are dubious at best. The so called explosions are vertical columns failing at bolted endplate connections, snapping outwards."

As far as the pentagon plane crash, I found picutres and video footage from the security cameras here http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/. In the middle of the page, click on "video". The pictures are difficult to make it out...but, it's fairly clear that something did streak along the lawn and rammed into the building. I have read that some people do dispute the fact that it might not have been a boeing plane. That is not my area of expertise.

[MplsBronco]

I find it interesting that Popular Mechanics found it necessary to debunk a loony conspiracy theory. If it is so whacked, why even acknowledge it? Also, the editor for PM is the cousin of Michael Cherthoff. The ties that bind.

I was on a flight recently and as we neared ground level, I was thinking of some untrained bafoon trying to fly this huge vehicle at high speeds into the side of building. It was incredibly difficult to judge elevation and speed etc. But to do it so precisely, as at the Pentagon, and only 10 feet off the ground is amazing. If not improbable.

Air traffic controllers have been quoted as saying that whatever hit the pentagon had to be a military plane, based on the maneuvers it made. I think they flew some kind of smaller plane into the building that was loaded with a cruise missile. The cruise missile was fired and the plane followed it into the building. Hence the nice clean puncture hole that went three rings deep. At lucikily the attack happened on the same section of the pentagon that was recently renovated with very few people in that section. What are the odds?

People need to read the PNAC mission statement. Google PNAC, it's that easy. 9/11 was exactly what these guys wanted and it coincidentally happened 8 months after they gained power. All too fishy for me. Take the totality of information and it would lead any critical thinker to acknowledge that things are not on the up and up.

Bin Laden is a boogey man creation of our own gov't. Bush gave a speech the other day where he said terror, terrorist or terrorism 97 times. Fear. Control. Power.

Facism has happened before, why not here? To those that think we should all bind together and unite to fight the terrorist would have been ideal citizens for Nazi Germany.

[baja]

I find it interesting that Popular Mechanics found it necessary to debunk a loony conspiracy theory. If it is so whacked, why even acknowledge it? Also, the editor for PM is the cousin of Michael Cherthoff. The ties that bind.

I was on a flight recently and as we neared ground level, I was thinking of some untrained bafoon trying to fly this huge vehicle at high speeds into the side of building. It was incredibly difficult to judge elevation and speed etc. But to do it so precisely, as at the Pentagon, and only 10 feet off the ground is amazing. If not improbable.

Air traffic controllers have been quoted as saying that whatever hit the pentagon had to be a military plane, based on the maneuvers it made. I think they flew some kind of smaller plane into the building that was loaded with a cruise missile. The cruise missile was fired and the plane followed it into the building. Hence the nice clean puncture hole that went three rings deep. At lucikily the attack happened on the same section of the pentagon that was recently renovated with very few people in that section. What are the odds?

People need to read the PNAC mission statement. Google PNAC, it's that easy. 9/11 was exactly what these guys wanted and it coincidentally happened 8 months after they gained power. All too fishy for me. Take the totality of information and it would lead any critical thinker to acknowledge that things are not on the up and up.

Bin Laden is a boogey man creation of our own gov't. Bush gave a speech the other day where he said terror, terrorist or terrorism 97 times. Fear. Control. Power.

Facism has happened before, why not here? To those that think we should all bind together and unite to fight the terrorist would have been ideal citizens for Nazi Germany.

Great Post!

I have been ridiculed profusely for the same thinking which adds credibility to your last paragraph.

[yavoon]

OK, watched the video, Nothing I haven't seen or heard before.

Their so called experts they use are dubious at best. The so called explosions are vertical columns failing at bolted endplate connections, snapping outwards.

There was no molten steel except from the cuts using oxygen lances and cutting torches in the rescue effort afterwards. It's basically not possible for the fires without pure oxygen to melt steel.

They state the columns are ASTM E119 but in fact the overwhelming majority of them were A36 (manufactured in Japan). But it doesn't matter their standard as A36 through 119 have basically the same melting point.

3 college kids using nothing new, material that has been rehashed many times over, hoping to become film producers.

the construction manager for the WTC is very dubious at best ur right. practical crackpot. as well as firefighters, lying greedy ****ers.

I also like how u said they used "nothing new" like thats some damnation of them. how dare u not makeup everything u do! u should be more creative than to go and have to research everythng! losers!

[epicSocialism4tw]

I was on a flight recently and as we neared ground level, I was thinking of some untrained bafoon trying to fly this huge vehicle at high speeds into the side of building. It was incredibly difficult to judge elevation and speed etc. But to do it so precisely, as at the Pentagon, and only 10 feet off the ground is amazing. If not improbable.


The governing instruments that those pilots use are as precise as you'll find. It's not difficult at all to imagine a trained pilot entering coordinates into a navigational system. Remebmer. They land those things on runways several times a day.

[watermock]

The TV cameras were allready fixed on the WTC when you clearly saw another plane fly into it!

WTF? Second, you have inherent structural weakness from the impact itself, and has been mentioned, you don't have to "melt" steel to make it unstable, especially after the structure takes an impact of catastrophic magnitude.

Third, the new asbestos laws made the steel leven more vulnerable.

It's amusing that the same people that claim Oswald acted alone when he was obviously hit from the front can't see two Boeing jets go into the WTC.

[yavoon]

The governing instruments that those pilots use are as precise as you'll find. It's not difficult at all to imagine a trained pilot entering coordinates into a navigational system. Remebmer. They land those things on runways several times a day.

thats an interesting conspiracy, u probably could crash it into a building if u knew the buildings exact coordinates. Though honestly its not hard to fly it into a building to be perfectly honest. unless there are pretty adverse wind conditions there I would say that ppl who have never flown a plane before but know the controls and maybe have played firefox probably have a 50/50 shot. maybe greater, the only thing that doesn't make it intensely easy is the trim changing as ur dropping in altitude.

course maybe I'm overestimating how coordinated ppl are.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

the construction manager for the WTC is very dubious at best ur right. practical crackpot. as well as firefighters, lying greedy ****ers.

I also like how u said they used "nothing new" like thats some damnation of them. how dare u not makeup everything u do! u should be more creative than to go and have to research everythng! losers!

If you're talking about the project manager for the Trade Center construction he was obviously wrong (along with others) what the impact of aircraft would do to the towers.

This evidenced by his statement of...
"and the plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."
Doing a little research shows that Frank DeMartini was an architect not a structural engineer.

They said and used nothing I haven't seen or read before. Does that bother you?

[yavoon]

If you're talking about the project manager for the Trade Center construction he was obviously wrong (along with others) what the impact of aircraft would do to the towers.

This evidenced by his statement of...
"and the plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."
Doing a little research shows that Frank DeMartini was an architect not a structural engineer.

They said and used nothing I haven't seen or read before. Does that bother you?

does ur posturing and preening bother me? not really.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

does ur posturing and preening bother me? not really.
Ah, so do you want to comment on my actual statement and your "expert's" quote? Or would you rather try and deflect to my (posturing and preening) rebuttal again?

[yavoon]

Ah, so do you want to comment on my actual statement and your "expert's" quote? Or would you rather try and deflect to my (posturing and preening) rebuttal again?

its not deflection. I just think ur under the mistaken assumption that I consider u the great expert. even though u do consider urself that. u go around and say "omg i'm an expert and this guy knows nothing." and then u get mad at me for not retorting?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

its not deflection. I just think ur under the mistaken assumption that I consider u the great expert. even though u do consider urself that. u go around and say "omg i'm an expert and this guy knows nothing." and then u get mad at me for not retorting?
I see, you don't want to comment on your "expert's" quote or my actual statement. That's fine.

[yavoon]

I see, you don't want to comment on your "expert's" quote or my actual statement. That's fine.

glad its fine w/ u. construction manager, random angry internet guy who covered his eyes and went nanananna forever refusing to watch the video.

[labronx]

Yavs,

have you read this
Behold A Pale Horse by William Cooper?
I think you'll like it
It's a must
http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?cid=52445&PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=130626&fp=F&kid=1775491

[yavoon]

Yavs,

have you read this
Behold A Pale Horse by William Cooper?
I think you'll like it
It's a must
http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?cid=52445&PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=130626&fp=F&kid=1775491

haha I'm not big into conspiracies:). but thanks for the thought.

[labronx]

WOW.

Same kinda concept of the video you posted.

William Cooper was eventually assasinated by the CIA.

I bet the guys that produced the video have heard of him.

Read it for fun then.

Its as good and actually better than the video.

[loborugger]

haha I'm not big into conspiracies:). but thanks for the thought.

THIS HAS TO BE THE POST OF THREAD!!!!

The guy who introduces a video suggesting a plan that would require half the agencies of the federal govt to be involved in a conspiracy to "attack" the US with 9/11 isnt into conspiracies.

Thats sorta like someone offering TJ an Elway jersey, and him saying, "No thanks, I am not much of a Broncos fan."

I got to give it to you, you have dominated the front page for a couple of days with garbage, and you have sidestepped more issues than a practiced politician. Nice job.

[yavoon]

THIS HAS TO BE THE POST OF THREAD!!!!

The guy who introduces a video suggesting a plan that would require half the agencies of the federal govt to be involved in a conspiracy to "attack" the US with 9/11 isnt into conspiracies.

Thats sorta like someone offering TJ an Elway jersey, and him saying, "No thanks, I am not much of a Broncos fan."

I got to give it to you, you have dominated the front page for a couple of days with garbage, and you have sidestepped more issues than a practiced politician. Nice job.

because I think the circumstances surrounding something are suspicious, combined with the gov'ts proven history of lying and hiding information on the same subject I by default have to be nuts for every conspiracy theory ever written?

where do u guys get logic like this?

[Taco John]

I"m not much into the Broncos. I just do this to see what you all think of them...

[labronx]

because I think the circumstances surrounding something are suspicious, combined with the gov'ts proven history of lying and hiding information

That same kinda logic is used by WC on his.

My bad didnt mean to rain on your parade.

Don judge a book by its cover.
:spit:

[labronx]

I"m not much into the Broncos. I just do this to see what you all think of them...

LOL

Good One!

[yavoon]

That same kinda logic is used by WC on his.

My bad didnt mean to rain on your parade.

Don judge a book by its cover.
:spit:

everything based on its own merits

[Master___Pain]

Here's a conspriracy that should be right up yavoon alley.

Send in Molder and Scully (http://www.chappelletheory.com/index.html)

[Bronx33]

Here's a conspriracy that should be right up yavoon alley.

Send in Molder and Scully (http://www.chappelletheory.com/index.html)



Bwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!!

[yavoon]

Here's a conspriracy that should be right up yavoon alley.

Send in Molder and Scully (http://www.chappelletheory.com/index.html)

if u ppl weren't so stupid this would be character asassination.

[Master___Pain]

if u ppl weren't so stupid this would be character asassination.


You have ZERO sense of humor. Lighten up Francis. And what do you mean by "U ppl" exactly?

[Taco John]

if u ppl weren't so stupid this would be character asassination.



We also might be able to type complete words...

[yavoon]

We also might be able to type complete words...

I'm interested, tell me more about these "complete words"

[yavoon]

You have ZERO sense of humor. Lighten up Francis. And what do you mean by "U ppl" exactly?

whatever u say.

[Master___Pain]

whatever u say.

Nice response. Why are you so uptight?

[yavoon]

Nice response. Why are you so uptight?

u took a shot at my credibility. sorry if that doesn't make me roll on the floor laughing.

[baja]

Nice response. Why are you so uptight?

Basically everyone on the thread reticule him and then you accuse him of no sense of humor.

You are an ass master pain

[labronx]

Nice response. Why are you so uptight?

dude were workin as a team today

i guess great minds think alike ;D

i swear that is prolly the second time ive used it in my life

Man I miss reppin

[Master___Pain]

u took a shot at my credibility. sorry if that doesn't make me roll on the floor laughing.

Yeah, I took a shot at your credibility........LOL :spit:

[yavoon]

Yeah, I took a shot at your credibility........LOL :spit:

done yet?

[Master___Pain]

Basically everyone on the thread reticule him and then you accuse him of no sense of humor.

You are an ass master pain

Jesus people, a little levity goes a long way...or apparently it does not. Forgive me for trying to lighten the mood on this 13 page doozy. I am sorry the sarcasm did not translate for you Baja. What I posted was the absolute antithesis of what yavoon posted, meaning it was so rediculous I thought it might lighten the mood some. Some people apparently got the joke and it went whizzing right over the heads of a couple others.

[Master___Pain]

done yet?

< sarcasm ></ sarcasm >

[baja]

Jesus people, a little levity goes a long way...or apparently it does not. Forgive me for trying to lighten the mood on this 13 page doozy. I am sorry the sarcasm did not translate for you Baja. What I posted was the absolute antithesis of what yavoon posted, meaning it was so rediculous I thought it might lighten the mood some. Some people apparently got the joke and it went whizzing right over the heads of a couple others.

damn dude where's your sense of humor lighten up a bit


get it?

And speaking of whizzing over....

[yavoon]

to bring it back on topic. we haven't talked about WTC 7 much. the building that fell because of falling debris from the two original towers. I heard someone say it was demo'd?!?

why would it completely collapse surrounded by buildings that didnt.

[baja]

to bring it back on topic. we haven't talked about WTC 7 much. the building that fell because of falling debris from the two original towers. I heard someone say it was demo'd?!?

why would it completely collapse surrounded by buildings that didnt.

Another good question that more peep hole should be asking and can you add a smilie when you make the next excelent point.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

glad its fine w/ u. construction manager, random angry internet guy who covered his eyes and went nanananna forever refusing to watch the video.
Yeah, I was scared to watch a amateur stab at a conspiracy.
I didn't agree with your 1 hour 20 plus minutes of video that was done by college kids trying to break into the film business and you can't handle it, so what?

Since you don't want to debate the qualifications and statements of the sources used as references in your Internet video this thread is basically done unless you want to keep playing Nostradamus and guessing what mood you think I may be in.

[yavoon]

Yeah, I was scared to watch a amateur stab at a conspiracy.
I didn't agree with your 1 hour 20 plus minutes of video that was done by college kids trying to break into the film business and you can't handle it, so what?

Since you don't want to debate the qualifications and statements of the sources used as references in your Internet video this thread is basically done unless you want to keep playing Nostradamus and guessing what mood you think I may be in.

I just brought up a point made by the video? or were u too busy picking out words to flame me w/ to notice?

[DivineLegion]

I guess since we're making character judgements out of people examining the evidence, someone needs to pass me an application for MoveOn.org.

There is a lot of compelling EVIDENCE presented in tis video that is hard to just shrug off, unless of course shrugging it off is convenient for my political view point.

Someone please explain away the video footage starting at 51 minutes and 45 seconds.

Those plums are comming out of the windows are the eternal structure falling through the Core of the building. Its a nice attempt at a theory but I realy dont see it possible that our government could have a hand in such an event.

[yavoon]

Those plums are comming out of the windows are the eternal structure falling through the Core of the building. Its a nice attempt at a theory but I realy dont see it possible that our government could have a hand in such an event.

internal structure causes flashes? must be those new detonating steel beams.

I also dont see how given that its falling at near free fall that smaller bits of internal structure are flying through the perfectly fine building to get 30 or 40 stories ahead of the collapse, which again is at a near free fall.

[baja]

The glaring hole in the set up theory is the sheer number of people it would take to coordinate this thing and than keep quiet about it.

Can you offer an explanation as to how that was accomplished Yavoon?

[baja]

PS, is Ya voon a middle eastern name?

[loborugger]

The glaring hole in the set up theory is the sheer number of people it would take to coordinate this thing and than keep quiet about it.

Can you offer an explanation as to how that was accomplished Yavoon?


That, in a nut shell, is the problem with any conspiracy theory. In between debates of the exacting melting point of steel, consider how many people would be involved. Imagine how hard it is to keep a secret.

For this crap to be true, John Ashcroft would have had to been in on it... Now, I am NO Ashcroft fan. But, I dont doubt the man's morales, ethics and believes. I cant imagine he would be able to live with being a part of this thing.

Also for this crap to be true, Colin Powell would have to be in on it. The man devoted his life to the service of his country, and again has a reputation that is all but beyond reproach.

I dont buy either one of these men (amongst DOZENS of others) would be apart of this. There were thousands of people in lower Manhattan that saw the days events. Are they all confused? My friend worked in a building across 395 from the Pentagon. He saw the aircraft slam into the Pentagon. Further, he was an Army Captain, and would know the difference between a cruise missile and an airliner. But, I am sure he is confused.. or part of the conspiracy (sorta like Popular Mechanics).

Thats why I call this video a shell game. They throw around a lot crap, confuse you, and put on a slick production which leaves you scratching your head at the end.

I have no doubt that the govt hasnt told us the whole story. I have no doubt that the gov't has covered up crap before... but something of this magnitude.

Whatever, there is plenty of real evidence that 9/11 was the work of Usama and Co, and there is some evidence that it was a charade designed to bring about a fascist state. You just have decide where you put your faith. I put my faith in the fact that Osama and his boys did it.

[yavoon]

The glaring hole in the set up theory is the sheer number of people it would take to coordinate this thing and than keep quiet about it.

Can you offer an explanation as to how that was accomplished Yavoon?

like all conspiracies u'd attempt to limit the number of ppl who actually knew. u could get a lot accomplished w/ partial knowledge. for instance the guys who conphiscated all the video tapes of the pentagon crash minutes after it happened. do they need to know why they conphiscated them? no. the gov't hides things all the time, its completely normal.

Certainly some ppl need to be in on it, but the idea that everyone who contributes to a conspiracy needs to know about what they were doing is silly.

also u could say that in a lot of ways the conspiracy failed, look at all the stuff left behind? the firefighters talking about secondary explosions, the ppl saying "this was a demo job" then saying "It was the fire." the tripod shaking? If this were a conspiracy it wouldn't have succeeded because it was airtight, it would have succeeded because of patriotism.

thats what I would say anyway.

[yavoon]

That, in a nut shell, is the problem with any conspiracy theory. In between debates of the exacting melting point of steel, consider how many people would be involved. Imagine how hard it is to keep a secret.

For this crap to be true, John Ashcroft would have had to been in on it... Now, I am NO Ashcroft fan. But, I dont doubt the man's morales, ethics and believes. I cant imagine he would be able to live with being a part of this thing.

Also for this crap to be true, Colin Powell would have to be in on it. The man devoted his life to the service of his country, and again has a reputation that is all but beyond reproach.

I dont buy either one of these men (amongst DOZENS of others) would be apart of this. There were thousands of people in lower Manhattan that saw the days events. Are they all confused? My friend worked in a building across 395 from the Pentagon. He saw the aircraft slam into the Pentagon. Further, he was an Army Captain, and would know the difference between a cruise missile and an airliner. But, I am sure he is confused.. or part of the conspiracy (sorta like Popular Mechanics).

Thats why I call this video a shell game. They throw around a lot crap, confuse you, and put on a slick production which leaves you scratching your head at the end.

I have no doubt that the govt hasnt told us the whole story. I have no doubt that the gov't has covered up crap before... but something of this magnitude.

Whatever, there is plenty of real evidence that 9/11 was the work of Usama and Co, and there is some evidence that it was a charade designed to bring about a fascist state. You just have decide where you put your faith. I put my faith in the fact that Osama and his boys did it.

maye the eye witnesses are confused, a lot of firefighters seem to be under the impression that explosions in the lower part of the building were occuring.

[loborugger]

Well, that was one small part of my post... good job, once again.

[baja]

like all conspiracies u'd attempt to limit the number of ppl who actually knew. u could get a lot accomplished w/ partial knowledge. for instance the guys who conphiscated all the video tapes of the pentagon crash minutes after it happened. do they need to know why they conphiscated them? no. the gov't hides things all the time, its completely normal.

Certainly some ppl need to be in on it, but the idea that everyone who contributes to a conspiracy needs to know about what they were doing is silly.

also u could say that in a lot of ways the conspiracy failed, look at all the stuff left behind? the firefighters talking about secondary explosions, the ppl saying "this was a demo job" then saying "It was the fire." the tripod shaking? If this were a conspiracy it wouldn't have succeeded because it was airtight, it would have succeeded because of patriotism.

thats what I would say anyway.

Even if you kept the ones in the know to a bare minimum still given the magnitude of what we are considering one would have to come clean you would think

[yavoon]

Even if you kept the ones in the know to a bare minimum still given the magnitude of what we are considering one would have to come clean you would think

why? how many men w/ families would come clean against a body of ppl willing to murder thousands of innocent civilians in the way of starting a war...well u get the idea.

I think if u did this right u could even do it WITH the terrorists. why not? maybe just suppress some info about the terrorists attacking, hide some bombs in the WTC to give it a nudge on the way down(and I guess WTC 7, anyone got a theory on that one?)

just bein devils advocate here but there are plenty of ways to do things that require covering up where u dont need to tell 'thousands of ppl.'

[loborugger]

If these video producers had a glimmer of knowledge of the US intelligence community, they would know that the US services (NSA, CIA) and the UK services (GCHQ, MI6) are all joined at the hip.

Therefore, the British Gov't would have to be in on this... but I am sure it was only Blair and a few guys, and they have no problem with it.

And, since we are casting doubt on everything... why should we believe one thing three idiots with a camera say???

Who's to say the guy they interviewed about Hani Hajoor's flight experience wasnt a Buick salesman from Pensacola, FL, that they gave 100 bucks? Why are we to believe the gov't is packing a ton of lies, and we have no credibility issues with the stuff in this video?

I am sure the video they found in Afghanistan in Dec 01 with Osama praising his work and saying things like, "there's more" after the first plane hit was nothing more than a plant? And all those film producers and actors were in on it, too?

I know I should just step away from this damn thread... its like rolling in the mud with a pig... I am getting dirty and the pig is having a ball.

[yavoon]

If these video producers had a glimmer of knowledge of the US intelligence community, they would know that the US services (NSA, CIA) and the UK services (GCHQ, MI6) are all joined at the hip.

Therefore, the British Gov't would have to be in on this... but I am sure it was only Blair and a few guys, and they have no problem with it.

And, since we are casting doubt on everything... why should we believe one thing three idiots with a camera say???

Who's to say the guy they interviewed about Hani Hajoor's flight experience wasnt a Buick salesman from Pensacola, FL, that they gave 100 bucks? Why are we to believe the gov't is packing a ton of lies, and we have no credibility issues with the stuff in this video?

I am sure the video they found in Afghanistan in Dec 01 with Osama praising his work and saying things like, "there's more" after the first plane hit was nothing more than a plant? And all those film producers and actors were in on it, too?

I know I should just step away from this damn thread... its like rolling in the mud with a pig... I am getting dirty and the pig is having a ball.

yah our intelligence services are so joined at the hip that the complete breakdown of communication leadingup to and involving 9-11 caused the creation of an entire new department and revamping on cooperation rules between the organizations.

I think ur asessment on how many ppl need to be involved is entirely false and is an attempt at hyperbole to make it seem impossible.

and if we're talking about Osama what u think of fake Osama?

[loborugger]

yah our intelligence services are so joined at the hip that the complete breakdown of communication leadingup to and involving 9-11 caused the creation of an entire new department and revamping on cooperation rules between the organizations.

I think ur asessment on how many ppl need to be involved is entirely false and is an attempt at hyperbole to make it seem impossible.

and if we're talking about Osama what u think of fake Osama?

Why should I believe that the pictures in your video arent doctored to make a point? Why should I believe their tripe more than the Gov'ts?

The intell community is joined at the hip... but you are using circular logic. One of two things happened.

1. There was a comm breakdown between all the agencies during a real terrorist attack.
or
2. The comms worked just fine as the gov't put together there little Pearl Harbor - in which case someone across the pond would have to be informed to turn their eyes the other way.

Which way do you want it? Oh, wait, you've already painted our gov't as full of cold blooded killers - so the comms across the pond were fine.

[yavoon]

Why should I believe that the pictures in your video arent doctored to make a point? Why should I believe their tripe more than the Gov'ts?

The intell community is joined at the hip... but you are using circular logic. One of two things happened.

1. There was a comm breakdown between all the agencies during a real terrorist attack.
or
2. The comms worked just fine as the gov't put together there little Pearl Harbor - in which case someone across the pond would have to be informed to turn their eyes the other way.

Which way do you want it? Oh, wait, you've already painted our gov't as full of cold blooded killers - so the comms across the pond were fine.

no, there's 3

3)they dont work just fine, and a conspiracy was planned. there is no reason that the presence of a conspiracy requires that the agencies be working together well.

and u can personally believe whatever u want. found the wmd yet? as for painting them as cold blooded killers since its already out iraq didnt have any and its out that well we were also pretty sure they didnt. and that bush lied on a repeated basis to justify a war. what exactly do u call that?

[loborugger]

I think ur asessment on how many ppl need to be involved is entirely false and is an attempt at hyperbole to make it seem impossible.

Ok, smart guy... how many people would have been involved in that doctored video found in Afghanistan? A dozen? Now, MAYBE they didnt know what they were doing when they made it, but the DAMN sure would have seen their product falsely splattered in the media of the world.

And that is just one small facet.

You are a lost cause... I just dont want you to convince other people of this crap.

[yavoon]

Ok, smart guy... how many people would have been involved in that doctored video found in Afghanistan? A dozen? Now, MAYBE they didnt know what they were doing when they made it, but the DAMN sure would have seen their product falsely splattered in the media of the world.

And that is just one small facet.

You are a lost cause... I just dont want you to convince other people of this crap.

why do they need to know what really happened in 9-11. I'd tell them they are faking a video to enable the invasion of afghanistan in order to kill the bastard who caused 9-11.

u aren't very creative.

[loborugger]

no, there's 3

3)they dont work just fine, and a conspiracy was planned. there is no reason that the presence of a conspiracy requires that the agencies be working together well.

and u can personally believe whatever u want. found the wmd yet? as for painting them as cold blooded killers since its already out iraq didnt have any and its out that well we were also pretty sure they didnt. and that bush lied on a repeated basis to justify a war. what exactly do u call that?

I believe our Prez misled himself and painted the facts to see what he wanted to justify a war... (sounds like this video).

That is a fair amount different than just going out and murdering 1000s of people to change a few laws....

Either way, people on the other side of the pond would have to be in on the damn plan, which means the British Govt was in on the game... this circle of conspirators keeps getting smaller and easier to manage, doesnt it.

[loborugger]

why do they need to know what really happened in 9-11. I'd tell them they are faking a video to enable the invasion of afghanistan in order to kill the bastard who caused 9-11.

u aren't very creative.

So, somewhere out here in America is a dozen or so film producers that bought that line. You've gotta be kidding.

I am pretty creative... I am just not willing to believe anything to make my theory work.

[yavoon]

I believe our Prez misled himself and painted the facts to see what he wanted to justify a war... (sounds like this video).

That is a fair amount different than just going out and murdering 1000s of people to change a few laws....

Either way, people on the other side of the pond would have to be in on the damn plan, which means the British Govt was in on the game... this circle of conspirators keeps getting smaller and easier to manage, doesnt it.

yah ur just wrong. the idea that everyone near a conspiracy needs to be in on it is false. u already tried to claim that the video fakers HAD to be in on it when infact they dont.

and what do u mean change a few laws? do u have any idea the scope of the patriot act? the size of the homeland security budget, we've already spent 2 trillion dollars invading iraq. whats this "just to change a few laws" crap.

[loborugger]

If anyone can read all this garbage and believe that 9/11 was faked, then they are very gullible, and I want to sell them a bridge in Brooklyn. I will mail them the title. I am outta here.

[yavoon]

So, somewhere out here in America is a dozen or so film producers that bought that line. You've gotta be kidding.

I am pretty creative... I am just not willing to believe anything to make my theory work.

what do u mean a dozen film producers? do u even know what a producer is? u act like they went and hired tom cruise. if I did the video I dont think I'd use americans. like i said earlier, u have all but zero creativity. which is probably why u think everything is impossible.

[yavoon]

If anyone can read all this garbage and believe that 9/11 was faked, then they are very gullible, and I want to sell them a bridge in Brooklyn. I will mail them the title. I am outta here.

change 9-11 was faked to "there aren't wmds in iraq"

oh I'll do it for u:

"If anyone can read all this garbage and believe that there aren't wmds in iraq, then they are very gullible, and I want to sell them a bridge in Brooklyn. I will mail them the title. I am outta here."

[Tombstone RJ]

OK, watched the video, Nothing I haven't seen or heard before.

Their so called experts they use are dubious at best. The so called explosions are vertical columns failing at bolted endplate connections, snapping outwards.

There was no molten steel except from the cuts using oxygen lances and cutting torches in the rescue effort afterwards. It's basically not possible for the fires without pure oxygen to melt steel.

They state the columns are ASTM E119 but in fact the overwhelming majority of them were A36 (manufactured in Japan). But it doesn't matter their standard as A36 through 119 have basically the same melting point.

3 college kids using nothing new, material that has been rehashed many times over, hoping to become film producers.

Thanks for taking the time to watch the vid. Beer. I greatly value your opinion and you took the time to see the vid for yourself.

[baja]

So anyone got an explanation as to how building #7 came crashing down?

[Spider]

So anyone got an explanation as to how building #7 came crashing down?
the debris from th other 2 towers falling struck the structure of #7 in such away it weaked the structural integrity , including seismic proportions and ramifications on the ground ...................in other words I dont have a freaking clue .....

[baja]

the debris from th other 2 towers falling struck the structure of #7 in such away it weaked the structural integrity , including seismic proportions and ramifications on the ground ...................in other words I dont have a freaking clue .....

Interesting that was the building that contained the sensitive stock market papers and the gold.

[Spider]

Interesting that was the building that contained the sensitive stock market papers and the gold.
Well we could always put Martha Stewart back in jail for it ;D

[baja]

Another issue is raised in all of this, where is the press with all these unanswered questions of such importance that beg to be investigated remember the Clinton blow job we had the press going through Lawenski's underwear drawer for crying out loud.

[baja]

Ya know maybe there was something else in one of those destroyed buildings of enormous importance to someone with great power.

[Spider]

Another issue is raised in all of this, where is the press with all these unanswered questions of such importance that beg to be investigated remember the Clinton blow job we had the press going through Lawenski's underwear drawer for crying out loud.
Linda Trip no less , but my mind is already made up , I dont need the Vid to tell me Bush is full of shít , the lack of tough questions about this tells me all I need to know ....... I dont think Bush planned 9-11 , but on the same hand he didnt do a damn thing to prevent it , the Aug 6 th memo , then there was that drill to protect some summit from Planes being flown into it before 9-11 happened ..... Kinda Sleezy Rice lied through her teeth when she said we never dreamed of anyone using planes to crash into a building ......... Bush is somehow protected , his misdeeds are excused away , People buy his bulshít hook line and sinker ....

[Spider]

Ya know maybe there was something else in one of those destroyed buildings of enormous importance to someone with great power.
I watched a video once of an Army demolition expert , that said Building 7 was clearly rigged before 9-11 .......he was discredited ... much like Richard pearle ...
I have a theory 10 years from now everyone will be claiming they was never fooled by Bush .......

[baja]

I just wonder what is making the normally aggressive press so apathetic with all of this, is it something in the water or what?

[Spider]

I just wonder what is making the normally aggressive press so apathetic with all of this, is it something in the water or what?
actually it has been in the works for awhile .. Liberal Media , how many times have we heard that ? ....... The Republicans put the media on their heels long before Bush took office , Newt Gingrich was a genius , remember when Susan Smith was found to be guilty of killing her kids ? go back to newts press confence read what he said .... Larry Flint had to bring down the Republican Golden boy , or things would have been much worse .......

[baja]

actually it has been in the works for awhile .. Liberal Media , how many times have we heard that ? ....... The Republicans put the media on their heels long before Bush took office , Newt Gingrich was a genius , remember when Susan Smith was found to be guilty of killing her kids ? go back to newts press confence read what he said .... Larry Flint had to bring down the Republican Golden boy , or things would have been much worse .......

I wonder just how powerful Murdock is. The press can now be called the surpressed

[Spider]

I wonder just how powerful Murdock is. The press can now be called the surpressed
out foxed was a pretty good show from what I hear , I never saw it ....... but it is all about Fox news http://www.outfoxed.org/

[watermock]

WTF is wrong with you idiots? Look, we have all heard the baloney. Without proper aspestose, with the structural damage, structural steel allready becomes weak at 1000 degrees...

And Umm...you might of seen the fire and earthquake while people died and ran...

While hundreds of rescue workers were trying to save lives and died, the US blew up buiding 5. What a line of BS.

And we sent a missle into the pentagon when we got 95 % identified.

STFU...we were attacked by terrorists, the buildings fell, there was fire and chaos and the whole area was in chaos. The entire foundation was gone. They abandoned the center. You dimwits amaze me. THE WHOLE FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE CENTER WAS GONE AND FIRE WAS RAMPANT.

[watermock]

Murdock is a liberal you dimwit.

[baja]

out foxed was a pretty good show from what I hear , I never saw it ....... but it is all about Fox news http://www.outfoxed.org/

All I know for sure is there is something really wrong with our country right now and I believe we all can feel it in many different ways. Too much apathy, too many unanswered questions, too many unasked questions.

Is anyone else feel like a big shoe is about to fall?

[Spider]

WTF is wrong with you idiots? Look, we have all heard the baloney. Without proper aspestose, with the structural damage, structural steel allready becomes weak at 1000 degrees...

And Umm...you might of seen the fire and earthquake while people died and ran...

While hundreds of rescue workers were trying to save lives and died, the US blew up buiding 5. What a line of BS.

And we sent a missle into the pentagon when we got 95 % identified.

STFU...we were attacked by terrorists, the buildings fell, there was fire and chaos and the whole area was in chaos. The entire foundation was gone. They abandoned the center. You dimwits amaze me. THE WHOLE FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE CENTER WAS GONE AND FIRE WAS RAMPANT.

I see .......but we are talking about Building #7 ....

[Spider]

Murdock is a liberal you dimwit.
compared to who ?

[Spider]

All I know for sure is there is something really wrong with our country right now and I believe we all can feel it in many different ways. Too much apathy, too many unanswered questions, too many unasked questions.

Is anyone else feel like a big shoe is about to fall?
Well plenty of people tried to get the word out , Richard Clarke , Scott Ritter not to mention Former Nixon guy John W Dean and his book worse then watergate ........ I dont know why people choose to over look this , but there were warning signs before Bush won his second term .......

[Deacon Blue]

I see .......but we are talking about Building #7 ....
Building 7 had been hit by a large chunk of one of the other towers, and had caught fire and was burning, unchecked, for about six hours.

[Spider]

Building 7 had been hit by a large chunk of one of the other towers, and had caught fire and was burning, unchecked, for about six hours.
Ok .... Unchecked for 6 hours .... So I guess Morgan Reynolds, Ph.D was either stupid or a terrorist supporter ...... glad that was cleared up

[baja]

Murdock is a liberal you dimwit.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=122948

Who is Rupert Murdoch?

How one right-wing billionaire uses his business and media empire to pursue a partisan agenda at the expense of democracy

July 16, 2004

In recent years, Australian-born billionaire Rupert Murdoch has used the U.S. government's increasingly lax media regulations to consolidate his hold over the media and wider political debate in America. Consider Murdoch's empire: According to Businessweek, "his satellites deliver TV programs in five continents, all but dominating Britain, Italy, and wide swaths of Asia and the Middle East. He publishes 175 newspapers, including the New York Post and The Times of London. In the U.S., he owns the Twentieth Century Fox Studio, Fox Network, and 35 TV stations that reach more than 40% of the country...His cable channels include fast-growing Fox News, and 19 regional sports channels. In all, as many as one in five American homes at any given time will be tuned into a show News Corp. either produced or delivered."<b> But who is the real Rupert Murdoch? As this report shows, he is a far-right partisan who has used his empire explicitly to pull American political debate to the right. </b>He is also an enabler of the oppressive tactics employed by dictatorial regimes, and a man who admits to having hidden money in tax havens. In short, there more to Rupert Murdoch than meets the eye.

Media Manipulator

<b>In 2003, Rupert Murdoch told a congressional panel that his use of "political influence in our newspapers or television" is "nonsense." But a close look at the record shows Murdoch has imparted his far-right agenda throughout his media empire.</b>

[Spider]

but now Baja you know how Bush was able to do this ....... there will always be those that will explain his misdeeds away in the simplest terms , and when we poke holes in the excuse , why we just chase conspiracy theory and are dimwits ....

[watermock]

Have your chicken soup.

[Spider]

Have your chicken soup.
but McNabbs mom says I should eat chunky ........

[baja]

but now Baja you know how Bush was able to do this ....... there will always be those that will explain his misdeeds away in the simplest terms , and when we poke holes in the excuse , why we just chase conspiracy theory and are dimwits ....

Right got it. :~ohyah!:

I'll crawl back into my baja cave now, after all I have been informed by Mock and his buddy Alec that I have no right to talk american politics even though I am a decorated war vet because I now chose to live in Mexico.

i just bought 95 acres in the mountains I feel this is a great place call home for the times we live in.

[Deacon Blue]

I'm not too familiar with Reynolds take on the situation §Pide®. :thumbs:

I really hadn't heard much on tower 7 until a while ago.

[baja]

Have your chicken soup.

i believe you might be the one that needs to STFU.

Murdock is a liberal you say. Could you possibly make a bigger misstatement.

You come out with that and just keep on posting like you are some informed authority. Dude check yourself...

[Spider]

I'm not too familiar with Reynolds take on the situation §Pide®. :thumbs:

I really hadn't heard much on tower 7 until a while ago.
Oh ok , here is alittle something on him and who he is .......
http://www.ncpa.org/abo/staff/mreynolds.html
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050908insidejob911#reynolds

[Spider]

Right got it. :~ohyah!:

I'll crawl back into my baja cave now, after all I have been informed by Mock and his buddy Alec that I have no right to talk american politics even though I am a decorated war vet because I now chose to live in Mexico.

i just bought 95 acres in the mountains I feel this is a great place call home for the times we live in.
;D i wouldnt throw that Decorated vet stuff around Bro ....... get swift boated that way

[loborugger]

Ok, I got a question.

If you buy that towers were brought down with charges, why bring them straight down? Why not spill them out sideways, doing even more damage? I mean, afterall, that was the ultimate goal, maximum damage, yes?

[Spider]

Ok, I got a question.

If you buy that towers were brought down with charges, why bring them straight down? Why not spill them out sideways, doing even more damage? I mean, afterall, that was the ultimate goal, maximum damage, yes?
oh i dont think the Towers were brought down by Charges , I believe BB's explaination , but I am not ruling out that the other buildings were rigged .....
i dont think the intent was to cause major damage , in reality the collaspe probably happened faster then thought , Like I said I dont think Bush Planned 9-11 , but he sure in the hell didnt stop it either ........

[yavoon]

Ok, I got a question.

If you buy that towers were brought down with charges, why bring them straight down? Why not spill them out sideways, doing even more damage? I mean, afterall, that was the ultimate goal, maximum damage, yes?

easy answer, maximum damage was not the ultimate goal

[watermock]

i believe you might be the one that needs to STFU.

Murdock is a liberal you say. Could you possibly make a bigger misstatement.

You come out with that and just keep on posting like you are some informed authority. Dude check yourself...

You don't know squat...his shows are made to make money....he is a liberal and it's well documented. He doesn't have an an agenda other than to make money.

[Spider]

here is a wierd case , the guy that owned a trucking company here in Casper was running into trouble , he managed to fit every one of his trucks into his building where they worked on trucks and a fire just broke out that night , insurenced paid off , the reason I know this is the guy I was working for bought the property and we used it ..... a random chance of a fire or Arson ?

[yavoon]

"Building 7 was the third skyscraper to collapse into rubble on September 11, 2001. According to the government, small fires leveled this building, but fires have never before or since destroyed a steel skyscraper.

The team who investigated the collapse were not allowed access to the crime scene. By the time they published their inconclusive report, the evidence had been destroyed.

Why did the government rapidly recycle the steel from the largest and most mysterious engineering failure in world history, and why has the media remained silent?"

[loborugger]

easy answer, maximum damage was not the ultimate goal

I guess. Why take out a couple of buildings in the financial district when you can take out a bunch? Hell, you might even be able to lay the damn thing in Wall Street if you do it right.

The more death, the more destruction, the more disruption, etc, the more emotional the event will be, the power derived for our mysterious bad guys, etc.

[Deacon Blue]

Oh ok , here is alittle something on him and who he is .......
http://www.ncpa.org/abo/staff/mreynolds.html
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050908insidejob911#reynolds
Thanks

Pretty intresting stuff.

I remember seeing something on the History Channel about Tower 7 not too long ago that told both sides of the story, and what some engineers said about it. Can't remember much from it for the life of me though. But if I recall correctly they said some fire-resistant insulation had been knocked off the beams, and after burning for so long they just broke.

I'll admit the Tower 7 thing sounds a little suspicious, but I don't see how people think the Twin Towers had been controlled demos.

[watermock]

easy answer, maximum damage was not the ultimate goal

They fell straght down because the steel was weakened, and the top floor collapsed when the floors below gave way.

It's rather amazing how idiotic people are...we see a giant plane fly into the WTC...TWICE....and they want to play conspiracy.

STFU...It could of easily tipped...I found it odd, but I sure as hell saw the planes fly into them.

[yavoon]

Thanks

Pretty intresting stuff.

I remember seeing something on the History Channel about Tower 7 not too long ago that told both sides of the story, and what some engineers said about it. Can't remember much from it for the life of me though. But if I recall correctly they said some fire-resistant insulation had been knocked off the beams, and after burning for so long they just broke.

I'll admit the Tower 7 thing sounds a little suspicious, but I don't see how people think the Twin Towers had been controlled demos.

boy that fire resistant insulation gets knocked off easy! what knocked it off this time? smoke?

[Spider]

Thanks

Pretty intresting stuff.

I remember seeing something on the History Channel about Tower 7 not too long ago that told both sides of the story, and what some engineers said about it. Can't remember much from it for the life of me though. But if I recall correctly they said some fire-resistant insulation had been knocked off the beams, and after burning for so long they just broke.

I'll admit the Tower 7 thing sounds a little suspicious, but I don't see how people think the Twin Towers had been controlled demos.
we agree on this ;D ..... I dont think the twin towers were controled demos either , BB makes a hellva an argument , sounds like he knows what side the bread is buttered on when it comes to sky scrapers ........

[yavoon]

I guess. Why take out a couple of buildings in the financial district when you can take out a bunch? Hell, you might even be able to lay the damn thing in Wall Street if you do it right.

The more death, the more destruction, the more disruption, etc, the more emotional the event will be, the power derived for our mysterious bad guys, etc.

if I were doing it i would not have demo'd tower 7. course it doesn't matter not many ppl care that its just about the most bizarre building collapse in recorded history.

[Deacon Blue]

boy that fire resistant insulation gets knocked off easy! what knocked it off this time? smoke?
They said it got hit pretty good by a chunk of one of the other towers.

[Spider]

No matter what side you are on , this is some damn good stuff , and we as Americans should question everything ..... when we start accepting everything we are told , then we are lazy .... and when we get lazy we lose our edge .....

[baja]

They fell straght down because the steel was weakened, and the top floor collapsed when the floors below gave way.

It's rather amazing how idiotic people are...we see a giant plane fly into the WTC...TWICE....and they want to play conspiracy.

STFU...It could of easily tipped...I found it odd, but I sure as hell saw the planes fly into them.

We're talking about building #7 try and keep up

[Spider]

We're talking about building #7 try and keep up
what in the hell do you know ? you live in Mexico ;D

[yavoon]

They said it got hit pretty good by a chunk of one of the other towers.

ahh, and all the other buildings survived perfectly intact. but tower 7, no it got hit by a rock, started an inferno that for the third time in history caused a building to collapse.

u know this fire resistant insulation stuff kind of reminds me a prom dress.

[baja]

No matter what side you are on , this is some damn good stuff , and we as Americans should question everything ..... when we start accepting everything we are told , then we are lazy .... and when we get lazy we lose our edge .....

This is my point as well, where is the public outrage and demand for answers to these hugely important questions when just a few years earrlier a blow job was on the news 24/7 for 2 years.

[loborugger]

if I were doing it i would not have demo'd tower 7. course it doesn't matter not many ppl care that its just about the most bizarre building collapse in recorded history.

Well, whatever... Like I said, it takes waaayyyy too much suspension of disbelief to buy the conspiracy. Combine this with my personal experience, add in my knowledge of failed attempts in the past for Gov'ts to keep secrets... and its much more plausible to me that we were attacked on 9/11.

What really bothers me is this... our Govt has decieved us so many times in the past 40 years that people are willing to believe that our own people perpetrated 9/11. Thats just sad.

[Deacon Blue]

No matter what side you are on , this is some damn good stuff , and we as Americans should question everything ..... when we start accepting everything we are told , then we are lazy .... and when we get lazy we lose our edge .....
True

But sometimes people can question too much too. (not directed at anyone in this thread)

[Spider]

This is my point as well, where is the public outrage and demand for answers to these hugely important questions when just a few years earrlier a blow job was on the news 24/7 for 2 years.
Nothing sells like sex ......... Nation of preverts ;D

[yavoon]

Well, whatever... Like I said, it takes waaayyyy too much suspension of disbelief to buy the conspiracy. Combine this with my personal experience, add in my knowledge of failed attempts in the past for Gov'ts to keep secrets... and its much more plausible to me that we were attacked on 9/11.

What really bothers me is this... our Govt has decieved us so many times in the past 40 years that people are willing to believe that our own people perpetrated 9/11. Thats just sad.

dont u consider an hour and 20 minutes, hundreds of sources, firefighters, seismic evidence, specious theories a failure? the conspiracy wasn't brilliant, the lynchpin of the whole thing was patriotism.

[Spider]

True

But sometimes people can question too much too. (not directed at anyone in this thread)
question too much ?

[yavoon]

True

But sometimes people can question too much too. (not directed at anyone in this thread)

yah cuz the gov't has every right to willfully shroud the entire thing in this veil all while saying "OMG LOOK ITS SADAM GET HIM! DONT LET OSAMA GET AWAY, LETS GET THOSE WMD!"

[baja]

what in the hell do you know ? you live in Mexico ;D

That's just my cover and I'm watching you, you unpatriotic slime ball. :-)

[Spider]

That's just my cover and I'm watching you, you unpatriotic slime ball. :-)
LOL ......normaly I have somthing smart assed to say but i didnt see that one comming

[Deacon Blue]

question too much ?
I should've phrased that differently.

Sometimes people will quesiton things and you can shove the truth in front of their eyes and their too stuborn to acknowledge it, and they keep rehashing the same arguement over and over agian. (once again, not directed at anyone in this thread)

Not talking about any current events.

[loborugger]

dont u consider an hour and 20 minutes, hundreds of sources, firefighters, seismic evidence, specious theories a failure? the conspiracy wasn't brilliant, the lynchpin of the whole thing was patriotism.

I know that my friend saw, in person, from across 395 (less than 1/2 mile away), a jet slam into the Pentagon. he doesnt like to talk about it much, but he did see it. And like I said, he did almost 10 years in the Army, he would know an airliner a from cruise missile. And at 500 miles an hour, that wouldnt be too fast to see.

You can find an expert here and an expert there to piece together whatever you want. There are malcontents everywhere.

Take it this way... from our own OM community... I could find and "interview" 3 or 4 Broncos fans who believe that Plummer is better than Elway. I could throw out some stats... I could show photos of John throwing Pics and losing games... and I could show Jake doing great things... and I could sell it under the guise of, "Bronco fans think Plummer is better than Elway." Have a told a lie? No... Have I willfully turned a blind eye to facts that didnt fit my point of view? Absolutely. Bush did it in Iraq and these guys did it their film.

[yavoon]

I know that my friend saw, in person, from across 395 (less than 1/2 mile away), a jet slam into the Pentagon. he doesnt like to talk about it much, but he did see it. And like I said, he did almost 10 years in the Army, he would know an airliner a from cruise missile. And at 500 miles an hour, that wouldnt be too fast to see.

You can find an expert here and an expert there to piece together whatever you want. There are malcontents everywhere.

Take it this way... from our own OM community... I could find and "interview" 3 or 4 Broncos fans who believe that Plummer is better than Elway. I could throw out some stats... I could show photos of John throwing Pics and losing games... and I could show Jake doing great things... and I could sell it under the guise of, "Bronco fans think Plummer is better than Elway." Have a told a lie? No... Have I willfully turned a blind eye to facts that didnt fit my point of view? Absolutely. Bush did it in Iraq and these guys did it their film.

well I'm convinced, pack my bags and go home! gogo usa!

=[

[loborugger]

Ahh, sarcasm. Thats always a convincing arguement.

Its 1 AM Eastern, I am going to bed.

Good Nite.

[yavoon]

Ahh, sarcasm. Thats always a convincing arguement.

Its 1 AM Eastern, I am going to bed.

Good Nite.

what do u want me to say? ur missing the point of why I'm bringing this up and HE'S UR FRIEND? I mean atleast he's not ur priest or ur brother I guess. does ur friend count double over the numerous firefighters that reported explosions in the lower levels of teh building before the collapse?

[watermock]

We're talking about building #7 try and keep up

I know what the hell we are talking about. First, there were horrible fires...the cops abandoned the building, and the foundation was gone. Are you an engineer?

[Spider]

I should've phrased that differently.

Sometimes people will quesiton things and you can shove the truth in front of their eyes and their too stuborn to acknowledge it, and they keep rehashing the same arguement over and over agian. (once again, not directed at anyone in this thread)

Not talking about any current events.
ok I understand now ;D i am an old Redneck , some times you have to clear things up for me ;D

[watermock]

what do u want me to say? ur missing the point of why I'm bringing this up and HE'S UR FRIEND? I mean atleast he's not ur priest or ur brother I guess. does ur friend count double over the numerous firefighters that reported explosions in the lower levels of teh building before the collapse?

The two jets were a mirage. Dimwit.

[yavoon]

I know what the hell we are talking about. First, there were horrible fires...the cops abandoned the building, and the foundation was gone. Are you an engineer?

maybe watch video. there's tape of a firefighter radioing back how to put the fire out.

[baja]

I know that my friend saw, in person, from across 395 (less than 1/2 mile away), a jet slam into the Pentagon. he doesnt like to talk about it much, but he did see it. And like I said, he did almost 10 years in the Army, he would know an airliner a from cruise missile. And at 500 miles an hour, that wouldnt be too fast to see.

You can find an expert here and an expert there to piece together whatever you want. There are malcontents everywhere.

Take it this way... from our own OM community... I could find and "interview" 3 or 4 Broncos fans who believe that Plummer is better than Elway. I could throw out some stats... I could show photos of John throwing Pics and losing games... and I could show Jake doing great things... and I could sell it under the guise of, "Bronco fans think Plummer is better than Elway." Have a told a lie? No... Have I willfully turned a blind eye to facts that didnt fit my point of view? Absolutely. Bush did it in Iraq and these guys did it their film.

Check out those links that spider provided. With these heavies weighing in with serious science based doubt why is there no investigation to put to rest these accusations. You may be right but these are not crack pots raising these doubts.

[baja]

well I'm convinced, pack my bags and go home! gogo usa!

=[

Your antagonism serves no purpose except maybe to allow you feel superior for a moment.

[yavoon]

Your antagonism serves no purpose except maybe to allow you feel superior for a moment.

it wasn't antagonism it was sarcasm. and it was because, what do u expect?

"i know a guy who saw a plane hit the pentagon so u can cease to believe all that other stuff" especially considering I actually believe a plane hit the pentagon.

I mean its like whaaaaaa?

[watermock]

maybe watch video. there's tape of a firefighter radioing back how to put the fire out.

So there was a fire right?

I guess the 184 bodies they dragged out from flight 77 out of the pentagon were a mirage too.

[watermock]

I hope you understand that complex was 7 floors deep and the foundation was comprimised and they had a fire as well as well as damage from the other collapses.

This is so amusing. Two jets are clearly shown hitting the WTC towers and idiots wonder why building 5 and 7 went down. I have allready gone thru this that the fire retardant was right after asbestos was outlawed.

I have explained that you don't have to melt structural metal to make it collapse. I have explained they didn't have decent fire retardant. I have explained you start to weaken steel at 650...you don't have to melt it.

What a bunch of morons.

[baja]

it wasn't antagonism it was sarcasm. and it was because, what do u expect?

"i know a guy who saw a plane hit the pentagon so u can cease to believe all that other stuff" especially considering I actually believe a plane hit the pentagon.

I mean its like whaaaaaa?

You can call it sarcasm if you want but your style of response leaves people feeling personally attacked that is why you are given such a hard time on this board. You have brought up some great questions on this thread but you have also squandered the thought provoking aspect of the questions for the ego gratifying and condescending put down which causes posters to react to you rather than focus on the issue, at least some of the time. I guess it comes down to what do you want to accomplish with your participation here.

[baja]

I hope you understand that complex was 7 floors deep and the foundation was comprimised and they had a fire as well as well as damage from the other collapses.

This is so amusing. Two jets are clearly shown hitting the WTC towers and idiots wonder why building 5 and 7 went down. I have allready gone thru this that the fire retardant was right after asbestos was outlawed.

I have explained that you don't have to melt structural metal to make it collapse. I have explained they didn't have decent fire retardant. I have explained you start to weaken steel at 650...you don't have to melt it.

What a bunch of morons.

So what does the world look like from the inside of a vodka bottle?

It appears to be grandiosity.

[yavoon]

You can call it sarcasm if you want but your style of response leaves people feeling personally attacked that is why you are given such a hard time on this board. You have brought up some great questions on this thread but you have also squandered the thought provoking aspect of the questions for the ego gratifying and condescending put down which causes posters to react to you rather than focus on the issue, at least some of the time. I guess it comes down to what do you want to accomplish with your participation here.

yah I argue pleasantly through taking some lumps. but ur right I'm not here to advance the agenda of this video, I just thought it was a fun video. in all other aspects I'm just acting the way I want.

sorry.

[yavoon]

So what does the world look like from the inside of a vodka bottle?

It appears to be grandiosity.

is that condescention! ruh roh!

[baja]

is that condescention! ruh roh!

attempted intervention

[baja]

yah I argue pleasantly through taking some lumps. but ur right I'm not here to advance the agenda of this video, I just thought it was a fun video. in all other aspects I'm just acting the way I want.

sorry.

just thought I'd throw out another perspective.

[yavoon]

just thought I'd throw out another perspective.


=] dont get down!

[baja]

=] dont get down!

OK

[Kaylore]

You can call it sarcasm if you want but your style of response leaves people feeling personally attacked that is why you are given such a hard time on this board. You have brought up some great questions on this thread but you have also squandered the thought provoking aspect of the questions for the ego gratifying and condescending put down which causes posters to react to you rather than focus on the issue, at least some of the time. I guess it comes down to what do you want to accomplish with your participation here.
Great post. I never got what Yavoon wanted with this board. Maybe it's the annonymity of the interweb, but there are many posters who are complete jerks on the web. I remember saying something similar to Yavoon and I got some response that was akin to "I dont care if ppl agre w/me. if thy don agre its thr los."

Presentation is everything, Yavoon. Right or wrong, no one wants to hear what an a-hole has to say.

[yavoon]

Great post. I never got what Yavoon wanted with this board. Maybe it's the annonymity of the interweb, but there are many posters who are complete jerks on the web. I remember saying something similar to Yavoon and I got some response that was akin to "I dont care if ppl agre w/me. if thy don agre its thr los."

Presentation is everything, Yavoon. Right or wrong, no one wants to hear what an a-hole has to say.

yah, dont care what ppl want or dont want. to be perfectly frank a significant amt of this board trolls me around in my threads. so even if I did care I'd still get crap nearly constantly.

also nice in a post where ur trying to make some valiant noble point that u mock my use of abbreviations. not to bring the house crashing down w/ irony or anything...

[baja]

yah, dont care what ppl want or dont want. to be perfectly frank a significant amt of this board trolls me around in my threads. so even if I did care I'd still get crap nearly constantly.

also nice in a post where ur trying to make some valiant noble point that u mock my use of abbreviations. not to bring the house crashing down w/ irony or anything...

well this may be the thread killer.....

[Kaylore]

yah, dont care what ppl want or dont want. to be perfectly frank a significant amt of this board trolls me around in my threads. so even if I did care I'd still get crap nearly constantly.

also nice in a post where ur trying to make some valiant noble point that u mock my use of abbreviations. not to bring the house crashing down w/ irony or anything... Poor, poor Yavoon. You're just suffering the same fate that most misunderstood geniuses do. We feeble plebes cannot contemplate your infinite wisdom and attack you totally unprovoked. I see you as a modern Galileo - except smarter.

[yavoon]

Poor, poor Yavoon. You're just suffering the same fate that most misunderstood geniuses do. We feeble plebes cannot contemplate your infinite wisdom and attack you totally unprovoked. I see you as a modern Galileo - except smarter.

I'm not suffering, I'm never the person that brings this up.

oh and just for MORE irony(I know what ur saying, how could kaylore give us more!), this entire thing started because i used sarcasm, which is exactly what u just did. its funny for how often this gets brought up how often the otherside is really the exact same.

[yavoon]

well this may be the thread killer.....

yah and we're still short on much of any cogent WTC 7 solution.

[Kaylore]

I'm not suffering, I'm never the person that brings this up.

oh and just for MORE irony(I know what ur saying, how could kaylore give us more!), this entire thing started because i used sarcasm, which is exactly what u just did. its funny for how often this gets brought up how often the otherside is really the exact same.
Before you made that comment, how many people said anything?

[yavoon]

Before you made that comment, how many people said anything?

what comment?

[Kaylore]

what comment?
Whatever you were refering to here.

this entire thing started because i used sarcasm

[yavoon]

Whatever you were refering to here.

u mean how many ppl badgered me before I made that comment?

many.

[Kaylore]

u mean how many ppl badgered me before I made that comment?

many.
You made your bed here, Yavoon. You have to sleep in it.

[baja]

yah and we're still short on much of any cogent WTC 7 solution.

yes too bad this thread has disintegrated into personal issues.

lets get back on topic

[yavoon]

You made your bed here, Yavoon. You have to sleep in it.

like i said, I dont bring this **** up so stop implying that I am somehow asking for it to change.

[dakranker]

I have been following this from the beginning. I never even questioned 9/11 before I saw this video. Most of the video showed really random **** in a neat package. But Tower 7 never made any sense. Two buildings of similar construction survived right next to tower 7.
This building fell at freefall speed despite any structural damage from a plane.

[yavoon]

yes too bad this thread has disintegrated into personal issues.

lets get back on topic


haha well u invited him in not me.

[baja]

I have been following this from the beginning. I never even questioned 9/11 before I saw this video. Most of the video showed really random **** in a neat package. But Tower 7 never made any sense. Two buildings of similar construction survived right next to tower 7.
This building fell at freefall speed despite any structural damage from a plane.



I confess I have had my head in the sand concerning all this. I feel the same about building 7 and I would like some answers. One of which is why does not every american want answers to this one aspect of the 9/11 tragedy?

[Taco John]

I think building 7 is the smoking gun here (if there's one to be found). After doing some research on it, I would compell anyone who doubts that any of these questions are good ones explain how it is that building 7 collapsed...

Here is a representation of the map to scale:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pp190104wtc.jpg

Please note that building 3 on the map is WTC 3.

Consider that WTC 3 is a Marriott Hotel. Like building 7, it is a steel framed structure. Unlike building 7, it took a direct hit.

Observe:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=53640&stc=1


As you can see by the map, building 7 is pretty well protected from the destruction of the towers collapsing by virtue of it being hidden behind WTC 5 & 6. Building 3 has no such protection. Yet building 7 suffers full, progressive destruction...

Buidling 3, however, did not.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=53639&stc=1


Keeping in mind that WTC 7 is only the third steel structured building in history to suffer full progressive destruction I ask this question:

Is it not reasonable to ask for the science behind why WTC 7 crumbled fully and completely while WTC 3 did not ?

[sirhcyennek81]

aliens did it. who happened to be muslim...unless you are a muslim, then it was the jews...

:Broncos:

[TomServo]

Is this the same thread from the person who brought us the "legalize pot thread"? O and the Apollo missions were faked? why are we not suprised?

[Clockwork Orange]

Is this the same thread from the person who brought us the "legalize pot thread"? O and the Apollo missions were faked? why are we not suprised?

That was Gonzolays who started those threads.

[sirhcyennek81]

Damage to the entire structure of the WTC was extensive. It extended underground. If i recall, they had to collapse a building because it had become unstable. Its not every day that two 80+ towers come crashing down. Besides the obvious, it has structural repercussions. To think it was a conspiracy...thats just stupid.

:Broncos:

[TomServo]

That was Gonzolays who started those threads.
an honest question TY. same vein: we did land on the moon. the twin towers did get knocked down by 767's and the pentagon did get wrecked by same 767's and NOt by cruise missiles.
OH and the broncos did win SB 32. it was the japs and not p40
tomahawks that wrecked pearl harbor.<!-- / message -->

[dakranker]

Damage to the entire structure of the WTC was extensive. It extended underground. If i recall, they had to collapse a building because it had become unstable. Its not every day that two 80+ towers come crashing down. Besides the obvious, it has structural repercussions. To think it was a conspiracy...thats just stupid.

:Broncos:

Nope
no one has said they collapsed a building on purpose the day of 9/11

[sirhcyennek81]

i didnt say they had to. i believe they did it later, during cleanup.

:Broncos:

[Kaylore]

an honest question TY. same vein: we did land on the moon. the twin towers did get knocked down by 767's and the pentagon did get wrecked by same 767's and NOt by cruise missiles.
OH and the broncos did win SB 32. it was the japs and not p40
tomahawks that wrecked pearl harbor.<!-- / message -->
Thank you. ^5

[dakranker]

i didnt say they had to. i believe they did it later, during cleanup.

:Broncos:

Are we talking about building 7?

[sirhcyennek81]

not sure. was the brown building in the diagram. i might be wrong.

:Broncos:

[dakranker]

not sure. was the brown building in the diagram. i might be wrong.

:Broncos:

The "brown building" fell down "all by its self" on 9/11.

[sirhcyennek81]

"thank you" for not being "condescending"

:Broncos:

[dakranker]

"thank you" for not being "condescending"

:Broncos:

"I" love those things. I "don't" really know why. "But your point" seams to have some merit".

[baja]

Is this the same thread from the person who brought us the "legalize pot thread"? O and the Apollo missions were faked? why are we not suprised?

Boy do I ever feel better now, it's al so simple, it's yavoon's fault. Good I can go back to CFI now. God Bless America.

[Spider]

Boy do I ever feel better now, it's al so simple, it's yavoon's fault. Good I can go back to CFI now. God Bless America.
see problem solved ........ Yavoon is the low down dirty polecat , that caused all of this .........

[baja]

see problem solved ........ Yavoon is the low down dirty polecat , that caused all of this .........

ya and what kind of un-American name is Ya voon anyway. That foreign name should have been the first clue. I bet if you saw him walking down the street you would feel compelled to cross to the other side.

How can we even consider these questions about building 7 when an obvious rag head called Ya voon posts the video in question. I mean it is an obvious ploy to cause dissension among us Americans. These bastards are getting sneaky, I'm going to go out an put up an extra flag right now.

[Spider]

ya and what kind of un-American name is Ya voon anyway. That foreign name should have been the first clue. I bet if you saw him walking down the street you would feel compelled to cross to the other side.

How can we even consider these questions about building 7 when an obvious rag head called Ya voon posts the video in question. I mean it is an obvious ploy to cause dissension among us Americans. These bastards are getting sneaky, I'm going to go out an put up an extra flag right now.
he is a diabolic bastard ...........

[Spider]

I just cant help but wonder if Yavoon has any communist contacts ........

[Tombstone RJ]

Yavoon is a foreigner. He may be posting somewhere in America, but he was not born in the US.

Does that really matter? No.

But we keep harping on irony and I find it ironic as hell he won't just say "yah, so I'm French, so what?"

Then I'd say, fine. I can now read your pigeon-English posts, and put them together with a pegion-English voice.

[Spider]

French ? whew Am I ever glad I drink freedom Vanillia coffee ..... hate to be french

[Tombstone RJ]

French ? whew Am I ever glad I drink freedom Vanillia coffee ..... hate to be french

I'm just guessing French. I find that ultimately ironic... heheheheheh....

[Spider]

I'm just guessing French. I find that ultimately ironic... heheheheheh....
Ha! ....or spainish ........

[baja]

Ha! ....or spainish ........

Ha! Stop!!

[Spider]

Ha! Stop!!
Ha! no freedom fries for you .....

[baja]

I'm just guessing French. I find that ultimately ironic... heheheheheh....

What is your obsession with his nationality? What possible difference could it make relative to his takes.

[baja]

Ha! no freedom fries for you .....

OK I'll go have an omelet

And a croissant with marmalade

[Spider]

OK I'll go have an omelet
ok but you get no freedom toast with it ;D

[Tombstone RJ]

What is your obsession with his nationality? What possible difference could it make relative to his takes.

My obsession is simple. He won't answer the question. Again, its not really important and it doesn't really matter (see my post above). But, as Yavvy likes to say, "why won't the gov. tell us this or that?" Ok Yavvy, why won't you answer my simple question?

Again, I'm really more obsessed with his none-answer, rather than any real answer he may want to share.

Strange, isn't it...

[Spider]

My nationality is Hienz 57 My Fore fathers were horny bastards

[baja]

<b>My obsession is simple. He won't answer the question. Again, its not really important </b>and it doesn't really matter (see my post above). But, as Yavvy likes to say, "why won't the gov. tell us this or that?" Ok Yavvy, why won't you answer my simple question?

Again, I'm really more obsessed with his none-answer, rather than any real answer he may want to share.

Strange, isn't it...

It can't be an obsession if it's not really important

[baja]

ok but you get no freedom toast with it ;D

Right... Than no Freedom Ticklers for you

[Spider]

Right... Than no Freedom Ticklers for you
well that sucks .....but then now I dont have to freedom kiss my wife ...... :D

[Tombstone RJ]

It can't be an obsession if it's not really important

Well, I agree. But I think its you who said it was an obsession, no?

[baja]

Well, I agree. But I think its you who said it was an obsession, no?

true but only because you have asked him about 10 times

[Tombstone RJ]

true but only because you have asked him about 10 times

I DEMAND an answer! Its my right as an American!:flower:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

WTC bulding 7 collapsed for the same reason the towers did. Fires throughout the building burned for hours.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Microstructural Analysis Of The Steels From Buildings 7, & 1 or 2 From The World Trade Center

R. R. Biederman,* Erin M. Sullivan,* George F. Vander Voort** and R. D. Sisson, Jr.,*

*Materials Science & Engineering Program, Mechanical Engineering Department, Worcester
Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
**Buehler, Ltd., 41 Waukegan Rd., Lake Bluff, IL 60044

Several samples from Buildings 7, and 1 or 2 of the World Trade Center were collected during the FEMA forensic investigation shortly after September 11, 2001. Macroscopically these samples
revealed severe “erosion” of the steel beam thickness from 1/2 inch to total metal loss in some regions, as well as localized plastic deformation. We were asked to determine the cause of this
“erosion” as well as the temperature that the steel experienced. Figure 1 shows typical examples of the severe erosion that occurred in the beam.

A microstructural analysis of these steel samples has been completed. In Building 7, the structural steel was A36. Figure 2 shows the near surface microstructural changes that occurred in the steel.

The as-fabricated microstructure consisted of a hot worked bandedstructure of ferrite and pearlite. In severely “eroded” regions where the thickness had been reduced to less than a 1/16 of and inch
significant decarburation was observed. In addition, some pearlite bands presented regions that had re-austentized as well as regions where the pearlite had started to spheroidize. These observations
indicate that steel had experienced temperature between 550 and 850°C.

An examination of the “slag” that formed on the surface of the steel found iron oxides and iron sulfides. It appeared that the “slag” was liquid at high temperature and easily attacked the grain
boundaries. A eutectic microstructure was seen within the “slag” of iron oxides and iron sulfides. If these compounds were pure Wustite (FeO) and Iron sulfide (FeS), the eutectic temperature is 940°C.
It appears that the severe “erosion” was due to the sulfidation and oxidation (i.e. hot corrosion) of the steel followed by the liquid “slag” attack of the grain boundaries.

A sample from either Building 1 or 2 presented similar macroscopic observations. In these buildings, the steel was a High Strength Low Alloy Steel (HSLA). The microstructure revealed somewhat
different phase distributions. This steel contained less carbon and an alloy addition of copper. The “slag” while comprised of both iron oxides and iron sulfides presented a significantly different
microstructure near the surface as shown in Figure 3.

Evidence of grain boundary attack by sulfidation is clearly visible. A gradient in sulfur concentration inward from the surface is shown in Figure 4. The internal sulfides appeared to interact with the
penetration of this liquid “slag.”

A thermodynamic analysis of the Fe-S-O system is currently underway to determine the atmosphere that would form these sulfidation/oxidation products. In addition, these microstructural observations will be compared with results from steels in various furnace and petrochemical processes.
http://www.me.wpi.edu/MTE/People/Images/IMSBiedermanA2.pdf




http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7374/metaldefornation8wh.png

[loborugger]

WTC bulding 7 collapsed for the same reason the towers did. Fires throughout the building burned for hours.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Microstructural Analysis Of The Steels From Buildings 7, & 1 or 2 From The World Trade Center

R. R. Biederman,* Erin M. Sullivan,* George F. Vander Voort** and R. D. Sisson, Jr.,*

*Materials Science & Engineering Program, Mechanical Engineering Department, Worcester
Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
**Buehler, Ltd., 41 Waukegan Rd., Lake Bluff, IL 60044

Several samples from Buildings 7, and 1 or 2 of the World Trade Center were collected during the FEMA forensic investigation shortly after September 11, 2001. Macroscopically these samples
revealed severe “erosion” of the steel beam thickness from 1/2 inch to total metal loss in some regions, as well as localized plastic deformation. We were asked to determine the cause of this
“erosion” as well as the temperature that the steel experienced. Figure 1 shows typical examples of the severe erosion that occurred in the beam.

A microstructural analysis of these steel samples has been completed. In Building 7, the structural steel was A36. Figure 2 shows the near surface microstructural changes that occurred in the steel.

The as-fabricated microstructure consisted of a hot worked bandedstructure of ferrite and pearlite. In severely “eroded” regions where the thickness had been reduced to less than a 1/16 of and inch
significant decarburation was observed. In addition, some pearlite bands presented regions that had re-austentized as well as regions where the pearlite had started to spheroidize. These observations
indicate that steel had experienced temperature between 550 and 850°C.

An examination of the “slag” that formed on the surface of the steel found iron oxides and iron sulfides. It appeared that the “slag” was liquid at high temperature and easily attacked the grain
boundaries. A eutectic microstructure was seen within the “slag” of iron oxides and iron sulfides. If these compounds were pure Wustite (FeO) and Iron sulfide (FeS), the eutectic temperature is 940°C.
It appears that the severe “erosion” was due to the sulfidation and oxidation (i.e. hot corrosion) of the steel followed by the liquid “slag” attack of the grain boundaries.

A sample from either Building 1 or 2 presented similar macroscopic observations. In these buildings, the steel was a High Strength Low Alloy Steel (HSLA). The microstructure revealed somewhat
different phase distributions. This steel contained less carbon and an alloy addition of copper. The “slag” while comprised of both iron oxides and iron sulfides presented a significantly different
microstructure near the surface as shown in Figure 3.

Evidence of grain boundary attack by sulfidation is clearly visible. A gradient in sulfur concentration inward from the surface is shown in Figure 4. The internal sulfides appeared to interact with the
penetration of this liquid “slag.”

A thermodynamic analysis of the Fe-S-O system is currently underway to determine the atmosphere that would form these sulfidation/oxidation products. In addition, these microstructural observations will be compared with results from steels in various furnace and petrochemical processes.
http://www.me.wpi.edu/MTE/People/Images/IMSBiedermanA2.pdf




http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7374/metaldefornation8wh.png

No, no, no... you got it all wrong. FEMA is in on this small conspiracy... they are covering the tracks of the few FBI agents who planted the explosives for the few Generals.... who are also Masons... allied with a small group of Bilderbergers... but its all a small group, all intently living for one purpose... to hold this secret to their grave.

Nothing anyone says that doesnt fit your purpose is in on the conspiracy... but most just tangentially, because they dont have to know the whole thing, and wouldnt recognize their small part in the bigger picture.

Come, BB, you can suspend disbelief long enough to fall for it. You know you wanna. Maybe a few personal attacks will sway your opinion.

[Spider]

No, no, no... you got it all wrong. FEMA is in on this small conspiracy... they are covering the tracks of the few FBI agents who planted the explosives for the few Generals.... who are also Masons... allied with a small group of Bilderbergers... but its all a small group, all intently living for one purpose... to hold this secret to their grave.

Nothing anyone says that doesnt fit your purpose is in on the conspiracy... but most just tangentially, because they dont have to know the whole thing, and wouldnt recognize their small part in the bigger picture.

Come, BB, you can suspend disbelief long enough to fall for it. You know you wanna. Maybe a few personal attacks will sway your opinion.
The only problem is Silverstien admitting shortly after that he and the NYFD talked about "Pulling "building 7 on PBS show in 2002 ..... What i dont get is despite the owners ( Larry Silverstiens) own admission about building 7 People still believe it was fire .......... Just cant figure this one out ...

[Spider]

the RNC must have Jedi Mind tricks ...... There were bombs in Iaq , Saddam moved them to Syria , these are not the Droids you are looking for , You will release han Solo and the wookie to me , Building 7 fell on its own ........ or somthing to that effect .......

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No, no, no... you got it all wrong. FEMA is in on this small conspiracy... they are covering the tracks of the few FBI agents who planted the explosives for the few Generals.... who are also Masons... allied with a small group of Bilderbergers... but its all a small group, all intently living for one purpose... to hold this secret to their grave.

Nothing anyone says that doesnt fit your purpose is in on the conspiracy... but most just tangentially, because they dont have to know the whole thing, and wouldnt recognize their small part in the bigger picture.

Come, BB, you can suspend disbelief long enough to fall for it. You know you wanna. Maybe a few personal attacks will sway your opinion.

Well. something that I wasn't aware of was there was an eutectic reaction which formed slag on some of the beams. I don't think anyone has shown whether this happened before the collapse of the structures or after.

So my earlier statement of "no molten metal" isn't correct.
Although no beams actually melted there was slag that formed on the surface of some of the steel beams.



Here's some pics that show WTC 7 was hit by debris from the collapsing WTC 1 and the fires at different levels.


-------------------------------------------------------



http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8743/debris1ei.png


http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3192/wtc70bj.png
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3693/wtc7a0mh.png



.

[baja]

WTC building 7 collapsed for the same reason the towers did. Fires throughout the building burned for hours.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Microstructural Analysis Of The Steels From Buildings 7, & 1 or 2 From The World Trade Center

R. R. Biederman,* Erin M. Sullivan,* George F. Vander Voort** and R. D. Sisson, Jr.,*

*Materials Science & Engineering Program, Mechanical Engineering Department, Worcester
Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
**Buehler, Ltd., 41 Waukegan Rd., Lake Bluff, IL 60044

Several samples from Buildings 7, and 1 or 2 of the World Trade Center were collected during the FEMA forensic investigation shortly after September 11, 2001. Macroscopically these samples
revealed severe “erosion” of the steel beam thickness from 1/2 inch to total metal loss in some regions, as well as localized plastic deformation. We were asked to determine the cause of this
“erosion” as well as the temperature that the steel experienced. Figure 1 shows typical examples of the severe erosion that occurred in the beam.

A microstructural analysis of these steel samples has been completed. In Building 7, the structural steel was A36. Figure 2 shows the near surface microstructural changes that occurred in the steel.

The as-fabricated microstructure consisted of a hot worked bandedstructure of ferrite and pearlite. In severely “eroded” regions where the thickness had been reduced to less than a 1/16 of and inch
significant decarburation was observed. In addition, some pearlite bands presented regions that had re-austentized as well as regions where the pearlite had started to spheroidize. These observations
indicate that steel had experienced temperature between 550 and 850°C.

An examination of the “slag” that formed on the surface of the steel found iron oxides and iron sulfides. It appeared that the “slag” was liquid at high temperature and easily attacked the grain
boundaries. A eutectic microstructure was seen within the “slag” of iron oxides and iron sulfides. If these compounds were pure Wustite (FeO) and Iron sulfide (FeS), the eutectic temperature is 940°C.
It appears that the severe “erosion” was due to the sulfidation and oxidation (i.e. hot corrosion) of the steel followed by the liquid “slag” attack of the grain boundaries.

A sample from either Building 1 or 2 presented similar macroscopic observations. In these buildings, the steel was a High Strength Low Alloy Steel (HSLA). The microstructure revealed somewhat
different phase distributions. This steel contained less carbon and an alloy addition of copper. The “slag” while comprised of both iron oxides and iron sulfides presented a significantly different
microstructure near the surface as shown in Figure 3.

Evidence of grain boundary attack by sulfidation is clearly visible. A gradient in sulfur concentration inward from the surface is shown in Figure 4. The internal sulfides appeared to interact with the
penetration of this liquid “slag.”

A thermodynamic analysis of the Fe-S-O system is currently underway to determine the atmosphere that would form these sulfidation/oxidation products. In addition, these microstructural observations will be compared with results from steels in various furnace and petrochemical processes.
http://www.me.wpi.edu/MTE/People/Images/IMSBiedermanA2.pdf




http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7374/metaldefornation8wh.png

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4927/steelerszebra10pr.jpg
<b> FIG. 5.</b>



So ultimately it was a referee with a football that took #7 down.....

This a FEMA study that gives me loads of confidence...

Why were they so quick to recycle all the steel? They study plane crashes for years and warehouse the plane parts for years.

Why is it that the twin towers and building 7 are the only steel multi story structures that have collapsed due to fire in recorded history?

There has clearly been a reluctance by the Bush administration to study any aspect of this nation changing disaster, WHY?

[GonzoLays]

20 reasons to question the official story of 9/11




(1) The 9-11 Commission refused to examine the vast majority of evidence about 9/11, and even the former director of the FBI says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission

(2) The tape of interviews of air traffic controllers on-duty on 9/11 was intentionally destroyed by crushing the cassette by hand, cutting the tape into little pieces, and then dropping the pieces in different trash cans around the building

(3) Investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House

(4) A retired Air Force Colonel who flew over 100 combat missions and was the director of the Star Wars defense program under both Republican and Democratic administrations (and a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth) recently said:


"If our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. That is treason!"

(5) Recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes(using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also committing terrorist murders against U.S. citizens on American soil, and then blaming it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba

(6) The Secret Service, which is highly trained to whisk the president away from danger and to a secure location in the event of a threat, breached all standard procedures and allowed President Bush to remain at a highly-publicized location for 25 minutes after it was known that the nation was under attack

(7) The U.S. defense agency responsible for protecting the U.S. had run drills for several years of planes being used as weapons against the World Trade Center and other U.S. high-profile buildings, and "numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock hijacked aircraft". In other words, drills using REAL AIRCRAFT simulating terrorist attacks crashing jets into buildings, including the twin towers, were run

(8) The military had also conducted drills of planes crashing into the Pentagon

(9) On the morning of 9/11, 5 war games and terror drills were being conducted by several U.S. defense agencies, including one "live fly" exercise using REAL planes. And the drills apparently included the injection of false "radar blips" onto the screens of air traffic controllers

(10) The government was running a simulation of a plane crashing into a building on the morning of 9/11

(11) While the government has consistently stated that it did not know where the aircraft were before they struck, the Secretary of Transportation testified before the 9/11 Commission that Vice President Cheney monitored flight 77 for many miles as it approached the Pentagon

(12) A third world trade center building, called building 7, collapsed on the afternoon of 9/11, but was never hit by plane, fell at the same speed as if there were no floors or walls to cause resistance, contained only small fires before the collapse, and became the first steel-frame building in history to collapse due to fire alone

(13) USA Today stated that the FBI believed that bombs in the buildings brought the buildings down

(14) MSNBC stated that police officials believe "that one of the explosions at the world trade center . . . may have been caused by a van that was parked in the building that may have had some kind of explosive device in it, so their fear is that there may have been explosive devices planted either in the building or in the adjacent area"

(15) The NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were "bombs" and "secondary devices", which caused the explosions in the buildings

(16) NYC firefighters who witnessed attacks stated that it looked like there were bombs in the buildings. A NYC firefighter stated "On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building"

(17) The head of a national demolition association stated that the collapse of the towers looked like a "classic controlled demolition"

(18) Eyewitnesses have testified that substantial explosions occurred well BELOW the area impacted by the planes, and -- according to some witnesses -- they occurred BEFORE the plane had even hit

(19) A police officer testified that there were numerous, HUGE explosions at the top of one of the twin towers 15 minutes apart, before the tower collapsed

(20) Numerous, credible ex-government officials are warning that the U.S. government might very well attack its own people to justify a further clampdown on civil rights and to justify additional wars

[GonzoLays]

(13) USA Today stated that the FBI believed that bombs in the buildings brought the buildings down

[GonzoLays]

(5) Recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes(using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also committing terrorist murders against U.S. citizens on American soil, and then blaming it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba

See, our government would never even think of doing something like this!

[GonzoLays]

(5) Recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes(using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also committing terrorist murders against U.S. citizens on American soil, and then blaming it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba

Someone needs to explain this one to the people of the United States. Seriously.

[Tombstone RJ]

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4927/steelerszebra10pr.jpg
<b> FIG. 5.</b>



So ultimately it was a referee with a football that took #7 down.....

This a FEMA study that gives me loads of confidence...

Why were they so quick to recycle all the steel? They study plane crashes for years and warehouse the plane parts for years.

Why is it that the twin towers and building 7 are the only steel multi story structures that have collapsed due to fire in recorded history?

There has clearly been a reluctance by the Bush administration to study any aspect of this nation changing disaster, WHY?

No doubt the impact of a 757 fully laden with full had something to due with the collapses. However, its still somewhat amazing that the towers collapsed perfectly down. Its my understanding that great time and effort is spent by demolition experts to get buildings to collapse in just this way.

I have no doubt the steel was weakened by the impact, jet fuel, fires, etc. However, why didn't they tip over where the steel was weak. That is, why didn't the top of the towers, above the impact area, sway over to one side and then start a downward fall?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

This a FEMA study that gives me loads of confidence...

Why were they so quick to recycle all the steel? They study plane crashes for years and warehouse the plane parts for years.

Why is it that the twin towers and building 7 are the only steel multi story structures that have collapsed due to fire in recorded history?

There has clearly been a reluctance by the Bush administration to study any aspect of this nation changing disaster, WHY?

Who knows why Bush doesn't want all the 9-11 facts known, invaded and attacked a country that was no threat to us, spies on Americans illegally and is bankrupting the country?

I'm just commenting on why the towers collapsed. And I've never heard of any other skyscrapers impacted by 767s loaded with fuel before.

[baja]

No doubt the impact of a 757 fully laden with full had something to due with the collapses. However, its still somewhat amazing that the towers collapsed perfectly down. Its my understanding that great time and effort is spent by demolition experts to get buildings to collapse in just this way.

I have no doubt the steel was weakened by the impact, jet fuel, fires, etc. However, why didn't they tip over where the steel was weak. That is, why didn't the top of the towers, above the impact area, sway over to one side and then start a downward fall?

Why did building 7 colapse at free fall speed like the twin towers, it was not hit by a plane therefore no jet fuel no huge fire yet it drops like a fat lineman with his knees taken out.

[baja]

Who knows why Bush doesn't want all the 9-11 facts known, invaded and attacked a country that was no threat to us, spies on Americans illegally and is bankrupting the country?

I'm just commenting on why the towers collapsed.<b> And I've never heard of any other skyscrapers impacted by 767s loaded with fuel before.</b>

Pssst. We are talking about building 7 you know the one that was never hit, no jet fuel and had only small fires burning yet dropped at free fall speed.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No doubt the impact of a 757 fully laden with full had something to due with the collapses. However, its still somewhat amazing that the towers collapsed perfectly down. Its my understanding that great time and effort is spent by demolition experts to get buildings to collapse in just this way.

I have no doubt the steel was weakened by the impact, jet fuel, fires, etc. However, why didn't they tip over where the steel was weak. That is, why didn't the top of the towers, above the impact area, sway over to one side and then start a downward fall?

Because the inner support structures were damaged as well as the outer support structures. And WTC 2 did initially lean and fall to the side as it collapsed because the impact area was in more to the corner of the building.

------------------------------------------------------


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9052/wtc22ek.png

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Pssst. We are talking about building 7 you know the one that was never hit, no jet fuel and had only small fires burning yet dropped at free fall speed.

I realize that. You do realize it was impacted by debris from WTC 1 as it collapsed and was almost completely in flames. Also, it contained numerous fuel tanks for backup generators in the basement and 1st floors.

One thing for anyone who believes the collapses were due to controlled detonations should realize is 100s of scientists and engineers from universities and companies all over the country have examined the steel columns from all WTC buildings.
Does anyone find it strange that not one has ever stated they found evidence of columns severed by explosions?