Ashley Lelie Trade Rumors

[Taco John]

I've just learned from an Orange Mane source that Ashely Lelie is garnering trade interest from a couple of different teams around the league.

The first team, the 49ers, are considering a trade for Lelie, and are said to be willing to part with a first day pick for the receiver if they can come to an agreement with him over a new contract. We're told that Lelie has family in California, and would be interested in moving to the warmer climate.

According to our source, another team interested in the services of Lelie is the Atlanta Falcons. We're told that Lelie is less interested in playing in Atlanta, for unspecified reasons, and will try to steer things in the direction of California should things develop further.

[spdirty]

huh...I might accept the 49ers 2nd for him, but thats it.

Anyone know his cap number next year?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

If it's not a 2nd from San Fran or a 2nd + from Atlanta, pass. He might be underutilized in Denver, but he's still led the NFL in YPC the past 2 seasons. If it happens, good luck wherever Ashley. Not your fault you've got a QB who only looks your way when you run Go routes, but couldn't hit you in stride if his life depended on it.

[Clockwork Orange]

Any idea of how high of a first day pick?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

SoCalBronco will be devastated.

[Taco John]

Any idea of how high of a first day pick?

The source mentioned a first or a second. But given how things go, I phrased it "first day pick."

[RhymesayersDU]

We're told that Lelie is less interested in playing in Atlanta, for unspecified reasons.

One of those reasons probably being that Mike Vick is worse passing the ball then Jake Plummer is. People think we don't use him here? He'd never see a good pass in the ATL.

[Clockwork Orange]

SoCalBronco will be devastated.

So will Hulamau.

[Taco John]

Should we lose Lelie, signing a WR has got to be a priority.

Anyone know of any out there?

[Clockwork Orange]

The source mentioned a first or a second. But given how things go, I phrased it "first day pick."

That's probably wise. I can't see anyone giving up a 1st for Lelie, but a 2nd rounder is possible. As Herc mentioned, he did lead the league in YPC the last two years and if he were to join the 49ers he'd immediatly be their #1 receiver.

[Clockwork Orange]

Should we lose Lelie, signing a WR has got to be a priority.

Anyone know of any out there?

Can't say that I do. All's been pretty quiet on that front. ;D

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The source mentioned a first or a second. But given how things go, I phrased it "first day pick."

1st? Denver's got to add picks to get to #7, and it better be nothing more than #22 if that's the case.

and I can't see the interest from Atlanta after taking White and Jenkins in the '04 and '05 1st round.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That's probably wise. I can't see anyone giving up a 1st for Lelie, but a 2nd rounder is possible. As Herc mentioned, he did lead the league in YPC the last two years and if he were to join the 49ers he'd immediatly be their #1 receiver.

Brandon Lloyd > Ashley Lelie

[BroncoInferno]

If it's not a 2nd from San Fran or a 2nd + from Atlanta, pass. He might be underutilized in Denver, but he's still led the NFL in YPC the past 2 seasons. If it happens, good luck wherever Ashley. Not your fault you've got a QB who only looks your way when you run Go routes, but couldn't hit you in stride if his life depended on it.

But it is his fault that he is no good in the red zone and terribly inconsistent on the short to medium routes.

[DBroncos4life]

so the worst offseason continues

[Clockwork Orange]

Brandon Lloyd > Ashley Lelie

T-Rex arms Lloyd? That's funny.

[elsid13]

That would suck. TJ did your source say if Shanahan put the feeler out or if the teams came looking or it was Lelie camp?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

But it is his fault that he is no good in the red zone and terribly inconsistent on the short to medium routes.

It's hard to be good when you're never given the chance to make a play in either.

I almost want Ashley to be traded since he's so poorly used here.

[BroncoInferno]

If SF wants him, maybe package him and the 22nd pick and move into the #7 slot? Interesting development. I would kind of like to see us keep him. He would be a difficult cover for nickle backs. Obviously, this would all be dependant on bringing in T.O.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

T-Rex arms Lloyd? That's funny.
Have you SEEN some of the catches he has made? He's the anti-Lelie.

[BroncoInferno]

so the worst offseason continues

Ha! The chicken littles are already coming out before FA has even started. Didn't any of you learn your lesson from last offseason?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Have you SEEN some of the catches he has made? He's the anti-Lelie.

Yeah that pass Ashley caught against Buffalo was so routine

[DBroncos4life]

Instead of keeping the team young, lets go get old guys and trade our young guys.

[Taco John]

That would suck. TJ did your source say if Shanahan put the feeler out or if the teams came looking or it was Lelie camp?


The information I got was inspecific. It sounded as though it was outside interest coming in.

The Lelie situation is pretty well known around the league. The guy is in his finaly year of contract, and plays with a team that can't seem to get him the ball, despite him being such an explosive threat. I'm trying to say it in a way that doesn't paint Plummer as a bad guy, but let's face it... He just isn't terribly accurate on deep routes. Lelie isn't a good fit here until we get a quarterback who can throw a deep ball... It's better for Denver to get value for him this year while they still can, instead of seeing him walk for free next year.

[Sassy]

No............

[Rascal]

Lelie and our 22nd for their #7 maybe? That should enable us to get Mario...WOOT!!!

Then we still have the other first to play with.

If this happens that means we are signing TO BTW.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Instead of keeping the team young, lets go get old guys and trade our young guys.

Ehhh. . . it's supposed to be for a pick so they will be getting younger. Of course there's the bust factor of the new guy, but it's not like the Droughns trade when Denver got two older vets in return.

[DBroncos4life]

Ha! The chicken littles are already coming out before FA has even started. Didn't any of you learn your lesson from last offseason?
Lets see, I don't want TO and we are going to land him, then we trade Lelie. Yep not really what I had in mind this offseason. As far as last year went, I was only pissed when Hayward didn't get resigned.

[montrose]

This would be a HUGE mistake. WR in my opinion is the team's weakes position. Lelie is underutilized, he is only used on go routes but when used for short passes he can be very effective. He is so misused here it's ridiculous, he'll be a monster wherever he goes.

The thought of Charlie Adams, Darius Watts, Todd Devoe, and David Terrell being our #2 or #3 receiver next season scares the holy hell out of me.

[Taco John]

Have you SEEN some of the catches he has made? He's the anti-Lelie.



Dude, you're a moron. The Anti-Lelie? What does that even mean?

Get out of my thread, doof.

[BroncoInferno]

It's hard to be good when you're never given the chance to make a play in either.

I almost want Ashley to be traded since he's so poorly used here.

Yeah, I'm sure it is the coaches and Jake conspiring to keep the ball away from him, not any holes in his game. Do you honestly not think that Shanny would not make it a point of the game plan to get the ball in his hands more often if he were good at the things I mentioned? C'mon.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'm trying to say it in a way that doesn't paint Plummer as a bad guy, but let's face it... He just isn't terribly accurate on deep routes.

Plummer, Kubes, and Shanny are the bad guys with regards to Lelie. One can't get him the ball and the other two can't find ways that allow for the QB to get Ashley the ball.

[BroncoInferno]

The thought of Charlie Adams, Darius Watts, Todd Devoe, and David Terrell being our #2 or #3 receiver next season scares the holy hell out of me.

I'm pretty sure this would be dependant on landing TO.

[Popps]

good luck wherever Ashley. Not your fault you've got a QB who only looks your way when you run Go routes, but couldn't hit you in stride if his life depended on it.


Let me get this straight... Lelie led the league in YPC average over the past two seasons with Plummer throwing him the ball, yet... Plummer can't hit him on a deep pass?

It can't be both. Pick one and get back to us.

As for Jake only looking Lelie's way on go-routes, gosh... think there might be a good reason for that?

It's the same reason he doesn't look towards Dwayne Carswell on deep fly patterns. He doesn't run them well. The staff has been trying to force that square peg into that round hole since we drafted him. It's not working. It's the reason he's on the trading block and the reason we're having to talk about Terrell Owens instead of the guy we drafted in the mid-first round.

As for Plummer, why would a Pro Bowl QB on a winning team intentionally avoid throwing the ball to someone who could help his cause? Rod catches everything in sight and runs flawless patterns. Think that might be why Plummer hones in on him come crunch time and on short routes?

Yea, Jake just doesn't like Ashley as a person. He's trying to hold him down. Last week it was the staff's fault that Ashley wasn't a short route runner, now it's Jake's.

O.K..

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Yeah, I'm sure it is the coaches and Jake conspiring to keep the ball away from him, not any holes in his game. Do you honestly not think that Shanny would not make it a point of the game plan to get the ball in his hands more often if he were good at the things I mentioned? C'mon.

Are you serious? Do you actually watch Jake play QB? The guy does not look off Rod unless he has no chance of getting him the ball. Ashley has no chance to do anything if the QB won't look his way.

[longtimer]

IF SF gave us there 1st this year I would think about it.

[DBroncos4life]

Ehhh. . . it's supposed to be for a pick so they will be getting younger. Of course there's the bust factor of the new guy, but it's not like the Droughns trade when Denver got two older vets in return.
I understand we will get a pick out of it, but its not going to help our WRs out much. Sure we will be adding TO, but for how long? One or two years? Smith isn't going to be around much longer, Adams can suck my balls along with Devoe, leaving us Watts and Terrell. We better well draft a WR with that pick we get.

[Taco John]

This would be a HUGE mistake. WR in my opinion is the team's weakes position. Lelie is underutilized, he is only used on go routes but when used for short passes he can be very effective. He is so misused here it's ridiculous, he'll be a monster wherever he goes.

The thought of Charlie Adams, Darius Watts, Todd Devoe, and David Terrell being our #2 or #3 receiver next season scares the holy hell out of me.



If this happens, Rod will be our #2 next season...

[BroncoInferno]

Plummer, Kubes, and Shanny are the bad guys with regards to Lelie. One can't get him the ball and the other two can't find ways that allow for the QB to get Ashley the ball.

That's beyoind ridiculous. Shanny and Kubiak did not want to get their 1st rounder with 4.3 speed the ball. Whatever, dude.

[DomCasual]

This would be a HUGE mistake. WR in my opinion is the team's weakes position. Lelie is underutilized, he is only used on go routes but when used for short passes he can be very effective. He is so misused here it's ridiculous, he'll be a monster wherever he goes.

The thought of Charlie Adams, Darius Watts, Todd Devoe, and David Terrell being our #2 or #3 receiver next season scares the holy hell out of me.
There would be no Lelie trade if there wasn't a solid plan in place to replace him. Those guys you mentioned would not constitute a solid plan to replace him.

I guarantee you that IF a trade was to happen, it would be followed by something that could be argued as an improvement.

[Taco John]

Let me get this straight... Lelie led the league in YPC average over the past two seasons with Plummer throwing him the ball, yet... Plummer can't hit him on a deep pass?



Not consistently.

This is well known and not really a secret to anybody.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Let me get this straight... Lelie led the league in YPC average over the past two seasons with Plummer throwing him the ball, yet... Plummer can't hit him on a deep pass?

It can't be both. Pick one and get back to us.


Oh yeah it can. He might lead the league in YPC, but how many times have we seen Jake under- or overthrow a wide open Ashley? Way more often than when he actually gets the ball to him. Just because they occasionally connect on a deep ball does not all of sudden make Jake a QB that can throw the deep ball.

[orange 4 life]

Are you serious? Do you actually watch Jake play QB? The guy does not look off Rod unless he has no chance of getting him the ball. Ashley has no chance to do anything if the QB won't look his way.

are YOU serious?

you think a qb puts up the stats and wins that plummer does while only throwing to one guy?
rod is clearly our #1, and on the occasions where lelie is more involved in the GAMEPLAN plummer throws him the ball.

you guys bashing plummer are so diluted its beyond comprehension.

[BroncoInferno]

Are you serious? Do you actually watch Jake play QB? The guy does not look off Rod unless he has no chance of getting him the ball. Ashley has no chance to do anything if the QB won't look his way.

Then why won't Shanny and Kubes design more plays for him where he is the #1 option? I'll tell you why: because he isn't good enough right now to take on a more expanded role.

[WABronco]

Have you SEEN some of the catches he has made? He's the anti-Lelie.

Lloyd is a lazy jackass anyways...

[Popps]

Plummer, Kubes, and Shanny are the bad guys with regards to Lelie. One can't get him the ball and the other two can't find ways that allow for the QB to get Ashley the ball.

Dude, you realize how hysterical this is... right?

A coach who built two of the greatest offenses in football history and won multiple Superbowls with two different teams can't figure out how to get Lelie the ball? Or, is it our Pro Bowl quarterback's fault?

OH... it's BOTH!

Hilarious!

Dude, at least say that Shanahan can't draft WRs. That's based in truth. But, last time I checked... he's done just fine with WR talent, once he has it.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

are YOU serious?

you think a qb puts up the stats and wins that plummer does while only throwing to one guy?
rod is clearly our #1, and on the occasions where lelie is more involved in the GAMEPLAN plummer throws him the ball.

you guys bashing plummer are so diluted its beyond comprehension.

No surprise the Jake defender comes to the rescue. Jake did not put up great stats this year. 3300 yards and 18 TDs ain't that good, might be good since he was "Jake the No Mistake", but 12th in yards and TDs is nothing more than solid.

[Ray Finkle]

I am either going to puke in disgust or poop myself in excitement....

[Popps]

but how many times have we seen Jake under- or overthrow a wide open Ashley? Way more often than when he actually gets the ball to him.

Dude, this is so idiotic, I'm just about done. But, just do me this favor.


1. Log off of the forum.
2. Look at Lelie's YPC average.
3. Log back in.
4. Read the above sentence again.

If you still believe the above sentence, you're choosing to believe a falsehood. You're choosing to believe what you want to believe, which is fine... but don't confuse it with factual information.

[Taco John]

you guys bashing plummer are so diluted its beyond comprehension.



I think there's a difference between bashing Plummer and recognizing his shortcomings...

[Rascal]

So TO will be our #1 and Rod will be our #2. Who wants to bet sigs that it's going to be the same thing...Jake will look at Rod first and then check Rod again, and then glance at TO's direction. I give TO 6 weeks till he explodes.

[Clockwork Orange]

If this happens, Rod will be our #2 next season...

Precisely. This move won't happen until Terrell Owens is officially a Bronco.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Dude, this is so idiotic, I'm just about done. But, just do me this favor.


1. Log off of the forum.
2. Look at Lelie's YPC average.
3. Log back in.
4. Read the above sentence again.

If you still believe the above sentence, you're choosing to believe a falsehood. You're choosing to believe what you want to believe, which is fine... but don't confuse it with factual information.

42 receptions this season, that's barely 2.5 per game. Yeah he was so perfectly used in Denver's scheme.

[HEAV]

Ash was,is, and always will be overrated. (IMO)

He's freaking Alvin Harper. Fast but runs bad routes. With the T.O. deal very possible and the depth at WR that the Broncos currently have , with Devoe,Adams,Terrell, I'd say pull the trigger.

There are some speedy WR in this draft class. Holmes, Moss for example.

Have fun in Cali on a 3 win team Ash!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

So TO will be our #1 and Rod will be our #2. Who wants to bet sigs that it's going to be the same thing...Jake will look at Rod first and then check Rod again, and then glance at TO's direction. I give TO 6 weeks till he explodes.

It will be great comedy.

[DBroncos4life]

So TO will be our #1 and Rod will be our #2. Who wants to bet sigs that it's going to be the same thing...Jake will look at Rod first and then check Rod again, and then glance at TO's direction. I give TO 6 weeks till he explodes.
lucky for us when that happens we will have Devoe, Adams, Terrell, and maybe Watts to step up for us.

[Popps]

Lelie was criticized coming out of school for being a poor route runner. It's a fact.

He's undersized. It's a fact.

He's a speed-receiver. It's a fact.

Lelie has been criticized for his short game since arriving in Denver and every season we hear the same BS about how he's going to develop into a complete receiver.

He hasn't and he won't.

He's a glorified James Jett type who will be lucky to be as productive in another offense as he was in ours.

I'm fine keeping him around for what he is... a decoy and a deep threat. Anything beyond that, and we need to look elsewhere.

[Clockwork Orange]

Have you SEEN some of the catches he has made? He's the anti-Lelie.

That's a dumb statement on so many levels that it's not even humerous.

Write this down, pinhead. If Lelie is traded to the 49ers, he will beat out Brandon Lloyd for the #1 receiver job.

[Ray Finkle]

where is Wabbit when you need him!

[Popps]

I think there's a difference between bashing Plummer and recognizing his shortcomings...

That's fair enough. He certainly lacks Joe Montana-accuracy.

But, the guy's gotten Lelie the ball all season long. To say he hasn't means you're either just being contrary or you don't watch the games. What QB in the league doesn't overthrow a few balls per season? It just kills me, the ridiculous standard Plummer is held to. He makes Lelie the YPC leader once again, and he can't throw a deep ball? Uh... O.K..

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That's a dumb statement on so many levels that it's not even humerous.

Write this down, pinhead. If Lelie is traded to the 49ers, he will beat out Brandon Lloyd for the #1 receiver job.

Nah.

[DB-Freak]

Eh I can see Lelie striving in certain schemes.

But it won't be ours.

[Denver Crush]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=186
RECEIVING

No. Yds. Avg. Long TD
Smith 85 1105 13.0 72 6
Lelie 42 770 18.3 56 1
Putzier 37 481 13.0 32 0
Adams 21 203 9.7 21 0
Alexander 21 170 8.1 15 1
Mi. Anderson 18 212 11.8 66t 1
Bell 18 104 5.8 14 0
Johnson 17 160 9.4 33 5
Devoe 9 87 9.7 44t 1
Dayne 3
17 5.7 7 0
Duke 2 22 11.0 21 1
Watts 2 22 11.0 12 0
Sapp 2 17 8.5 12 0
Carswell 2 3 1.5 2t 2

Looks like he went to ashley half as many times as rod. hmmmm? certainly prefers rod.

[Taco John]

where is Wabbit when you need him!


Wabbit might not have this one yet... But rest assured he'll sniff it down once he gets on. I've already sent him a PM.

[Taco John]

That's fair enough. He certainly lacks Joe Montana-accuracy.

But, the guy's gotten Lelie the ball all season long. To say he hasn't means you're either just being contrary or you don't watch the games. What QB in the league doesn't overthrow a few balls per season? It just kills me, the ridiculous standard Plummer is held to. He makes Lelie the YPC leader once again, and he can't throw a deep ball? Uh... O.K..



I've got a lot of footage of overthrows and underthrows in Lelie's direction...

[Rascal]

In somewhat related news, the Colts have contacted the dolphins apparently regarding Ricky Williams. The bidding war has begun.

[Rohirrim]

Damn, I don't know about anybody else, but this is pretty friggin exciting. On one thread TO is coming, and on another, Lelie is going for another first day pick, (maybe #39?) which is perfect for this draft which will be loaded in the second round. Holy shiite, Batman.

[Kaylore]

Eh I can see Lelie striving in certain schemes.

But it won't be ours.
And it wouldn't be on the arm of Alex Smith.

[Taco John]

In somewhat related news, the Colts have contacted the dolphins apparently regarding Ricky Williams. The bidding war has begun.


This is why I love the offseason...

[Ray Finkle]

Wabbit might not have this one yet... But rest assured he'll sniff it down once he gets on. I've already sent him a PM.


Damn....so TJ, what do you think the over/under on this is? Does this basically punch TO's ticket to denver?

[Kaylore]

I've got a lot of footage of overthrows and underthrows in Lelie's direction...
Those aren't all on Plummer and Lelie would be the first to tell you.

[watermock]

We might be manuvering to do what Mock the God wants...T.O. and Vernon Davis. That would make Lelie expendible and we would still have a first rounder.

You send Lelie and Washingtons pick to SF, and then pick of the litter, you still have a second first...

Trade back down a bit for Vernon Davis...take your DE late in the first...

Who knows...Lelie is a good kid but...

Special Players Make Special Plays at Special Times....and for whatever reason, that hasn't happend, and he's in the last year of his contract.

Hard to see this materializing, but I'll let it ride chips on the table and stand up and fret....

[Bob's your Information Minister]

In somewhat related news, the Colts have contacted the dolphins apparently regarding Ricky Williams. The bidding war has begun.

That's weird. I guess they think he's going to come cheaper than Edge? I thought they were dumping Edge because of his age.

[Northman]

I've got a lot of footage of overthrows and underthrows in Lelie's direction...


Well, according to O4Life we have the best Qb in the game so whats the problem? Ashley not jumping high enough or contorting his body enough over 6 ft backwards to get a pass not enough? :rofl:

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Damn....so TJ, what do you think the over/under on this is? Does this basically punch TO's ticket to denver?

This could only go down once TO has signed on the dotted line.

[Popps]

Lelie had 17 catches of 20 yards or more this year.

Last year he had TWENTY SIX.

Need perspective?

Manning and Harrison's numbers?

Harrison had 17 over 20 this year and 19 over 20 last year.

You got it, folks.... LESS than Lelie.

Next.

[Ray Finkle]

This could only go down once TO has signed on the dotted line.


I am afraid that that means the Broncos will have to trade for him..

[Northman]

Lelie had 17 catches of 20 yards or more this year.

Last year he had TWENTY SIX.

Need perspective?

Manning and Harrison's numbers?

Harrison had 17 over 20 this year and 19 over 20 last year.

You got it, folks.... LESS than Lelie.

Next.

What about YAC?

[Clockwork Orange]

That's weird. I guess they think he's going to come cheaper than Edge? I thought they were dumping Edge because of his age.

He'll be cheaper than Edge even after his deal is re-negotiated.

Edge is looking for the really big bucks.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Lelie had 17 catches of 20 yards or more this year.

Last year he had TWENTY SIX.

Need perspective?

Manning and Harrison's numbers?

Harrison had 17 over 20 this year and 19 over 20 last year.

You got it, folks.... LESS than Lelie.

Next.

Wow that really puts it in perspective. Maybe next time you could actually include the # of times both were thrown to deep, and how many times both guys caught balls underneath and their yards after catch put the reception up over 20 yards?

[Clockwork Orange]

I am afraid that that means the Broncos will have to trade for him..

Ugh. The only idea I dislike more than signing Terrell Owens is trading for him.

[Popps]

I've got a lot of footage of overthrows and underthrows in Lelie's direction...


Why doesn't that surprise me. Like collecting footage of incompletions, huh?

Yea, well... his QB rating was over 90 and Lelie led the league in YPC.

Hey Taco... do you think that it could have possibly had anything to do with Lelie's route running? You think there's any fire to that smoke that's been around since he came out of school about him not being a fluid route runner?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I am afraid that that means the Broncos will have to trade for him..

Not necessarily, it'd just be a trade that would end up being contingent on a free agent signing. No TO, no deal for Ashley. Any deal wouldn't have to go down until draft day.

[Rascal]

That's weird. I guess they think he's going to come cheaper than Edge? I thought they were dumping Edge because of his age.

He will be a lot cheaper and there have been whispers around the league that Edge has lost a step.

[Ratboy]

Wow.. %*)(@ ()$*#_)) *%&%&#&#@!!!!!!!!!!

[HEAV]

If Jake can't throw a deep ball??? Then how in the hell does he over throw Leile?

Also if he does over throw passes. I'd like to see him over throw T.O.

[Rascal]

Why doesn't that surprise me. Like collecting footage of incompletions, huh?

Yea, well... his QB rating was over 90 and Lelie led the league in YPC.

Hey Taco... do you think that it could have possibly had anything to do with Lelie's route running? You think there's any fire to that smoke that's been around since he came out of school about him not being a fluid route runner?

Stats aren't everything Popps, you should know that as you have said it before.

[Taco John]

Damn....so TJ, what do you think the over/under on this is? Does this basically punch TO's ticket to denver?


Personally, I think an Ashley Lelie trade is inevitable and have been saying as much since October of this year (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=31748) when I recognized that he and Plummer just aren't going to jive, and realized that this upcoming season is Lelie's contract season...

As far as TO goes, I'll be suprised if he's playing anywhere but Denver next season

[Clockwork Orange]

How did this become another Plummer thread?

Anyway, if the 49ers offer their 2nd rounder, the Broncos have to take it. Lelie is in a contract year and there's the distinct possibility that he could bolt for nothing a year from now. A high 2nd rounder in a deep draft is way too good to pass up.

[Popps]

Wow that really puts it in perspective. Maybe next time you could actually include the # of times both were thrown to deep, and how many times both guys caught balls underneath and their yards after catch put the reception up over 20 yards?

Actually, that would probably only hurt your flimsy argument, but I'll be sure to do so, next time.

When was the last time you remember Lelie catching a 10 yard pattern and going the distance? Let me help you out.... never.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Ugh. The only idea I dislike more than signing Terrell Owens is trading for him.

Why are you so against this?

[Rohirrim]

That number 7 pick puts the Broncos in the Haloti/Mario area. But given the way this draft stacks up, it would make more sense to take a red zone threat like Marcedes at 22, then you have 29, 39? and 61 to pack both lines. Mangold, Baba, Adenjeyu? etc.

[Ratboy]

Blame Plummer!

[Ray Finkle]

Personally, I think an Ashley Lelie trade is inevitable and have been saying as much since October of this year (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=31748) when I recognized that he and Plummer just aren't going to jive, and realized that this upcoming season is Lelie's contract season...

As far as TO goes, I'll be suprised if he's playing anywhere but Denver next season


any insight to if Shanahan was swayed towards TO by Nalen's comments?

[Rascal]

You know I honestly don't see how we could get more then a third for Lelie, but if Shanny somehow gets a second for him I'll be shocked.

Lelie is in the last year of his contract and he is not worth what he will have to be payed to keep him IMO. I don't mind trading him, it's the fact that we are going to have to rely on TO not acting up all season long. And that is something that I like the odds on.

[Taco John]

Why doesn't that surprise me. Like collecting footage of incompletions, huh?

Yea, well... his QB rating was over 90 and Lelie led the league in YPC.

Hey Taco... do you think that it could have possibly had anything to do with Lelie's route running? You think there's any fire to that smoke that's been around since he came out of school about him not being a fluid route runner?



You're telling me it has nothing to do with Plummer's downfield accuracy? I want to be sure what case you're making here before I jump in.

[Ratboy]

So basically, We'll be left with no one, except an aging Rod Smith.

[Popps]

Stats aren't everything Popps, you should know that as you have said it before.

Absolutely.

Here's a good example. If you said... "Ashley wasn't important to our offense, just look at his stats."

I'd say, that's not fair. He only had 700 yards, but he stretches defenses, had some good catches down the stretch and plays a role.

Fair?

Now, if you say... "Plummer can't get him a deep ball," when he's led the league in YPC the past two years, I'd say that stats certainly DO mean something, in that case.

See the difference?

[Rascal]

any insight to if Shanahan was swayed towards TO by Nalen's comments?

I really doubt that Shanny let those comments sway him at all.

[Taco John]

any insight to if Shanahan was swayed towards TO by Nalen's comments?



That would be No.

Shanahan doesn't make player moves based on what his employees in the locker room think.

[Clockwork Orange]

Why are you so against this?

The Broncos had great focus and team chemistry this past season. Those are two of the main reasons they were able to go 13-3 and win a playoff game. While Owens certainly represents an upgrade in talent, he's also very capable (as we've seen in the past) of being a distraction and dividing a locker room.

If he pulls any of his old tricks, this team could easily fall apart, as the Eagles did. I don't believe for a second that he's going to be a changed man this time around and that it's only a matter of time before he becomes disruptive. The risk just isn't worth the potential reward to me.

I'm bracing myself for it to happen, but I don't have to like it.

[Ray Finkle]

I really doubt that Shanny let those comments sway him at all.

I think either the players were encouraged to say that or it may have...

[Popps]

You're telling me it has nothing to do with Plummer's downfield accuracy? I want to be sure what case you're making here before I jump in.

I've already said that Plummer is no Troy Aikman. Could Lelie have had a few more catches if Plummer was Joe Montana?

Sure.

Is it Mike Shanahan's fault, or Jake Plummer's fault that Lelie isn't a complete receiver?!

Of course not.

That duo seems to have no problem sending Rod Smith to the Pro Bowl every year.

C'mon, Taco. Even for you, this should be easy to differentiate.

(Guess it's officially the off-season ;D )

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Actually, that would probably only hurt your flimsy argument, but I'll be sure to do so, next time.


Not really, the point is that Jake can't connect with Ashley on deep balls. Throwing out the number of times Ashley had a catch for over 20 yards proves nothing if Jake isn't completing a high % of those passes, and it's only through the sheer number of pass attempts do they actually complete so many.

Hypo:
Jake to Ashley on deeper passes:
25 of 50- that'd support you argument
20 of 75- that'd support mine

By providing 0 context to the stats you've thrown out, you've proven absolutely nothing.

and Wayne is the real deep threat on the Colts, not Harrison.

[Taco John]

So basically, We'll be left with no one, except an aging Rod Smith.



Only if you live life with blinders on...

[SoCalBronco]

:( :( :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :vermeil: :vermeil:

I understand the merits of the idea, but I still would hate to lose a favorite player. If either is offering a 1, it would provide more value to the ballclub than how they are underutilizing him now. I really wish we would use him better, it would really make a huge difference. But this isnt an offense for him. I still enjoy his big plays and he is my co-favorite so I am really hating this, I really am angry but I understand maximizing value. If you get a 1, you gotta go for it. Same with DJ, underutilization means its better to trade him than let him rot away on the bench half the time and at Sam. We have to maximize value at all positions. If we do not adjust our offense to feature Ash more prominently than you have to do something else to maximize value. Its just terrible emotionally. I have always liked that kid alot. That's my boy. Just have to maximize value though if we arent going to change the passing scheme.

:(

[Popps]

... and for the record, I'd rather keep Lelie around. (Though if he goes, I won't lose any sleep.)

Just don't tell me it's everyone else's fault but his own that he's not a big-time receiver. It's nonsense.

[Taco John]

Not really, the point is that Jake can't connect with Ashley on deep balls. Throwing out the number of times Ashley had a catch for over 20 yards proves nothing if Jake isn't completing a high % of those passes, and it's only through the sheer number of passes attempts do they actually complete so many.

Hypo:
Jake to Ashley on deeper passes:
25 of 50- that'd support you argument
20 of 75- that'd support mine

By providing 0 context to the stats you've thrown out, you've proven absolutely nothing.

and Wayne is the real deep threat on the Colts, not Harrison.


And this is a very good point...

[Clockwork Orange]

Just have to maximize value though if we arent going to change the passing scheme.

I know your pain SoCal. I had to watch Steve Atwater (my favorite Bronco ever) play a year for the New York Jets. That felt like a knife twisting in my stomach.

A high 2nd rounder in this deep draft would soften the blow a bit. :yep:

[Rascal]

Absolutely.

Here's a good example. If you said... "Ashley wasn't important to our offense, just look at his stats."

I'd say, that's not fair. He only had 700 yards, but he stretches defenses, had some good catches down the stretch and plays a role.

Fair?

Now, if you say... "Plummer can't get him a deep ball," when he's led the league in YPC the past two years, I'd say that stats certainly DO mean something, in that case.

See the difference?

You can't deny that Jake underthrew him on countless occasions, and due to blown coverages, brilliant play by Lelie, and sometimes just blind luck Lelie came down with it.

Where Lelie lacks and what we need is somebody who can do the intermediate and deep threats. Rod can do the short and somewhat intermediate passes, but Lelie was never able (doesn't matter if it is his fault, Shanny, or Jakes fact is didn't happen) to become that intermediate threat we need. TO has the ability to do it all, hence the lore Shanny has of him, and we can get that deep threat through our #3 WR.

[Ratboy]

Only if you live life with blinders on...

Sure, You're right, Maybe Charlie Adams will replace Ashley Lelie.

[Rohirrim]

It just occured to me that if the Niners gave their #2 for Lelie, the Broncos would have two firsts, two seconds, and in all likelihood (after the comp pick) two thirds. In this draft, that would be beyond awesome.

[Ray Finkle]

Not really, the point is that Jake can't connect with Ashley on deep balls. Throwing out the number of times Ashley had a catch for over 20 yards proves nothing if Jake isn't completing a high % of those passes, and it's only through the sheer number of pass attempts do they actually complete so many.

Hypo:
Jake to Ashley on deeper passes:
25 of 50- that'd support you argument
20 of 75- that'd support mine

By providing 0 context to the stats you've thrown out, you've proven absolutely nothing.

and Wayne is the real deep threat on the Colts, not Harrison.


While I don't think Plummer is accurate on deep passes, those stats only tell half the story. How many of those passes were bad and how many hit Lelie in the hands and he dropped?

[HEAV]

You're telling me it has nothing to do with Plummer's downfield accuracy? I want to be sure what case you're making here before I jump in.


So I guess Ash and Brian G. didn't Jive either? ;D

TJ. Face it Ash was raw comming out of Hunalulu. He played in that June Jones passing system that put up huge numbers. He never runs clean routes and his timing is horrid.

Nice kid, but he's more a Peerless Price, than a Rod Smith. The kid can't beat the jam and get's push around easily.

Hell just to get the kid invovled in games they had to run a reverse with him nearly every game!

Someday his speed will be gone and his NFL days will be over.

[Northman]

:( :( :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :vermeil: :vermeil:

I understand the merits of the idea, but I still would hate to lose a favorite player. If either is offering a 1, it would provide more value to the ballclub than how they are underutilizing him now. I really wish we would use him better, it would really make a huge difference. But this isnt an offense for him. I still enjoy his big plays and he is my co-favorite so I am really hating this, I really am angry but I understand maximizing value. If you get a 1, you gotta go for it. Same with DJ, underutilization means its better to trade him than let him rot away on the bench half the time and at Sam. We have to maximize value at all positions. If we do not adjust our offense to feature Ash more prominently than you have to do something else to maximize value. Its just terrible emotionally. I have always liked that kid alot. That's my boy. Just have to maximize value though if we arent going to change the passing scheme.

:(



Well, you can take some solace SoCal that on my madden Schaub is making Lelie an all-pro. :P

[Ray Finkle]

Well, you can take some solace SoCal that on my madden Schaub is making Lelie an all-pro. :P


In Madden, Bobby Hoying could make him an all pro!;D

[Ratboy]

I will admit Ashley isn't utilized in Shanahan's System. I can see him on another team putting up 1300+ yards and 10 touchdowns. I like Lelie a lot, but he will be a better player some where else.

That being said.. I want Falcons first round pick.

[DB-Freak]

Inconsistent WR whatever the reason is...........

But I'll miss his amazing catches that he makes on occasions. They were beauties.

[HEAV]

Sure, You're right, Maybe Charlie Adams will replace Ashley Lelie.


Hey we still have Watts! :D

Sorry couldn't resist.

[Northman]

So I guess Ash and Brian G. didn't Jive either? ;D

TJ. Face it Ash was raw comming out of Hunalulu. He played in that June Jones passing system that put up huge numbers. He never runs clean routes and his timing is horrid.

Nice kid, but he's more a Peerless Price, than a Rod Smith. The kid can't beat the jam and get's push around easily.

Hell just to get the kid invovled in games they had to run a reverse with him nearly every game!

Someday his speed will be gone and his NFL days will be over.


Actually, that TD that Ash had he actually had to fight for because the ball was thrown somewhat behind him. That was one of the few times that Jake was able to even remotely get him the ball half decently. Ashley has performed far better this year than i ever expected.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Hey we still have Watts! :D

Sorry couldn't resist.

WattsNextMoss

[WABronco]

Sure, You're right, Maybe Charlie Adams will replace Ashley Lelie.

T...................O!

[Northman]

In Madden, Bobby Hoying could make him an all pro!;D


Thats just all kinds of wrong man. :giggle:

[Ratboy]

Hey we still have Watts! :D

Sorry couldn't resist.

Yeah, thats the plan. Shanahan is a genius. He knows Watts will produce next season and will replace Lelie. :spit:

I like Watts, but he will be cut, Maybe he didn't play this season due to an injury, I'd like to keep him, but Shanahan pretty much made his mind up.

[Rohirrim]

Yeah, thats the plan. Shanahan is a genius. He knows Watts will produce next season and will replace Lelie. :spit:

I like Watts, but he will be cut, Maybe he didn't play this season due to an injury, I'd like to keep him, but Shanahan pretty much made his mind up.

Darius had his chances. I just don't think Shanahan is the kind of coach who can put up with inconsistency. Dropped balls make him crazy.

[Mr. Trout]

Wow this thread is pretty heated. The Broncos are in a good position for the future. If Lelie is to be traded it should be for nothing less than a 1st rounder between the picks of 1-15. We should keep him if we cannot get anything in that range.

[Ratboy]

Darius had his chances. I just don't think Shanahan is the kind of coach who can put up with inconsistency. Dropped balls make him crazy.

but Adams is still here? Hopefully we keep Watts, give him some time as a 3rd or 4th. He needs to see the field next year, if he fails, goodbye.

[Rascal]

If we get a first rounder then San Fran severly overpaid...hell I would consider a second (especially theirs) be overpaying.

[Rohirrim]

but Adams is still here? Hopefully we keep Watts, give him some time as a 3rd or 4th. He needs to see the field next year, if he fails, goodbye.

Adams does a good job on STs.

[Ratboy]

Wow this thread is pretty heated. The Broncos are in a good position for the future. If Lelie is to be traded it should be for nothing less than a 1st rounder between the picks of 1-15. We should keep him if we cannot get anything in that range.

Bingo.

Atlanta has the 15th pick, I would trade Lelie for that pick, or maybe Less if it involved us getting Schaub.

[DBroncos4life]

If we trade Lelie we better walk out of this draft with Holmes or Moss because everyone else needs work.

[Ratboy]

Adams does a good job on STs.

I guess i'm the only one who is scared ****less when Adams is on the field for ST?

[Ray Finkle]

Thats just all kinds of wrong man. :giggle:


I had to.....:yayaya:

[Northman]

but Adams is still here? Hopefully we keep Watts, give him some time as a 3rd or 4th. He needs to see the field next year, if he fails, goodbye.


At this point i would say Adams is more impressive and that isnt saying much but he does take advantage of the opportunities he is given. Watts had pretty much laid a egg for us.

[SoCalBronco]

If we trade Lelie we better walk out of this draft with Holmes or Moss because everyone else needs work.

Every WR in this draft needs alot of work. Unlike the others though, you cannot "fix" the problems that two you mentioned have. Just because we need WR doesnt mean we reach. It means you address it some other way i.e. FA/Trade. No reaching.

[DBroncos4life]

Every WR in this draft needs alot of work. Unlike the others though, you cannot "fix" the problems that two you mentioned have. Just because we need WR doesnt mean we reach. It means you address it some other way i.e. FA/Trade. No reaching.
Holmes is the best in the draft by far. Moss is the only one that has shown a damn thing. I take you are looking at their size and not the fact that they catch the damn ball, something the rest of the guys have a hard time doing. As far as it being a reach, I question that. I didn't really say when we should pick them either. If we landed either in the 6th round that wouldn't be a "reach" now would it :P

[TheDave]

I'll belive it when i see it. No way in hell do the 49ers or falcons give up the 7th or 15th pick in the draft...Sorry but i have a better chance of making the team than that happening. The odds of giving up #38 or #47... Well.... Again i will believe it when i see it.

[Popps]

Darius had his chances. I just don't think Shanahan is the kind of coach who can put up with inconsistency. Dropped balls make him crazy.

Yea, kind of a bummer. That guy has insane physical ability. Nice that we find out a couple years after drafting him that he's got a wooden hand or something, though... huh?

[12th man]

lucky for us when that happens we will have Devoe, Adams, Terrell, and maybe Watts to step up for us.

If Lelie leaves who steps up? I realy like Charlie Adams. Adams has good hands and has done well when we called his number. He had 21 catches for 203 yrds. He has the makings to be a good possesion wr. He will be better next year. Devoe is good and needs more time to develope. He was 9 for 87 last year and about half his yards came from that short pass agains the eagles. But it seemed when he got the ball it was somthing positive. Im anxious to see what David Terrell can do in training camp. I really don't know much about the guy but here are his nfl stats:

RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2001 Chicago Bears 16 6 34 415 12.2 62 4 6 2 20
2002 Chicago Bears 5 1 9 127 14.1 52 3 2 1 7
2003 Chicago Bears 16 8 43 361 8.4 35 1 4 0 19
2004 Chicago Bears 16 15 42 699 16.6 63 1 12 2 35
2005 Denver Broncos 1 0 0 0 --- 0 0 0 0 0
TOTAL 54 30 128 1602 12.5 63 9 24 5 81

As for Watts, I gave up on him this year, but I say give him one more shot. third times the charm. If he dosn't step up in tc, get rid of him. I just keep remembering the chargers game two years back and him not catching the ball in the endzone.

I would hate to see Lelie go because just think of TO as number one, and Rod at number two and him at number three. Killer wr. core and offense. Instead of three good wr's, we might have two and a half good wr's.

Anyway, if Lelie gets traded who steps up? do we draft a wr or keep what we got? If we keep what we got I think it's either going to be Charlie Adams or David Terrell. But all of you are right. This won't happen unless we get TO. This raises another question. Sould we assume we are more than likely getting TO with these Lelie talks?

[TheDave]

but Adams is still here? Hopefully we keep Watts, give him some time as a 3rd or 4th. He needs to see the field next year...


Why, in hopes of him growing another hand... Fvckin Darius Watts...who the hell drafts a one handed reciever....

[Rohirrim]

I just hope when the Broncos pick a WR (or two) in this draft, they throw out the word "potential" and look strictly at production: YAC, TDs, Catches, stuff like that. I'm really hoping Dinger brings a little better luck to the Bronco's drafting of WRs.

[TheDave]

I just hope when the Broncos pick a WR (or two) in this draft, they throw out the word "potential" and look strictly at production: YAC, TDs, Catches, stuff like that. I'm really hoping Dinger brings a little better luck to the Bronco's drafting of WRs.

add to this: All appendages functioning properly

[SoCalBronco]

Yea, kind of a bummer. That guy has insane physical ability. Nice that we find out a couple years after drafting him that he's got a wooden hand or something, though... huh?

I dont think the hand is the problem. The incident happened in HS. He subsequently went on to set a NCAA record with 91 receptions his sophomore year at Marshall and broke several of Randy Moss's career Marshall records with the same hand. I think its just gotten in his head. He just needs to work through it. He will be fine.

[DBroncos4life]

If Lelie leaves who steps up? I realy like Charlie Adams. Adams has good hands and has done well when we called his number. He had 21 catches for 203 yrds. He has the makings to be a good possesion wr. He will be better next year. Devoe is good and needs more time to develope. He was 9 for 87 last year and about half his yards came from that short pass agains the eagles. But it seemed when he got the ball it was somthing positive. Im anxious to see what David Terrell can do in training camp. I really don't know much about the guy but here are his nfl stats:

RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2001 Chicago Bears 16 6 34 415 12.2 62 4 6 2 20
2002 Chicago Bears 5 1 9 127 14.1 52 3 2 1 7
2003 Chicago Bears 16 8 43 361 8.4 35 1 4 0 19
2004 Chicago Bears 16 15 42 699 16.6 63 1 12 2 35
2005 Denver Broncos 1 0 0 0 --- 0 0 0 0 0
TOTAL 54 30 128 1602 12.5 63 9 24 5 81

As for Watts, I gave up on him this year, but I say give him one more shot. third times the charm. If he dosn't step up in tc, get rid of him. I just keep remembering the chargers game two years back and him not catching the ball in the endzone.

I would hate to see Lelie go because just think of TO as number one, and Rod at number two and him at number three. Killer wr. core and offense. Instead of three good wr's, we might have two and a half good wr's.

Anyway, if Lelie gets traded who steps up? do we draft a wr or keep what we got? If we keep what we got I think it's either going to be Charlie Adams or David Terrell. But all of you are right. This won't happen unless we get TO. This raises another question. Sould we assume we are more than likely getting TO with these Lelie talks?
I think I might be the only person that really hates Adams.

[Rohirrim]

I'll say one thing about Darius, he sure as hell can get open.

[Ratboy]

I'll say one thing about Darius, he sure as hell can get open.

Thats what i like about him, if he could start catching the ball, he could put up some huge numbers.

[broncofan]

I'm sorry, but the belief that people are interested in Ashley Lelie enough to part with a first round pick might be the most absurd thing I've ever read here. Teams weren't even giving up 2d rounders for Shaun Alexander last offseason. I'll be dancing in the streets if we get a 2d for Lelie.

[Popps]

I dont think the hand is the problem. The incident happened in HS. He subsequently went on to set a NCAA record with 91 receptions his sophomore year at Marshall and broke several of Randy Moss's career Marshall records with the same hand. I think its just gotten in his head. He just needs to work through it. He will be fine.

Yea, I was half-joking. I've been a big supporter of his around here, and thought he was going to buck the trend of Shanny's WR draft picks.
He'll get another shot in training camp next season. Cross your fingers.

[Popps]

I'm sorry, but the belief that people are interested in Ashley Lelie enough to part with a first round pick might be the most absurd thing I've ever read here. Teams weren't even giving up 2d rounders for Shaun Alexander last offseason. I'll be dancing in the streets if we get a 2d for Lelie.

The Alexander thing had a lot to do with his contract status.

But, I agree... a first rounder for Lelie would be insane. Take that and run.

[Northman]

Bring back Marcus Nash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheDave]

I'm sorry, but the belief that people are interested in Ashley Lelie enough to part with a first round pick might be the most absurd thing I've ever read here. Teams weren't even giving up 2d rounders for Shaun Alexander last offseason. I'll be dancing in the streets if we get a 2d for Lelie.

Actually mentioning Brian Greise and Joe Montana in the same sentence was the most absurd thing...but yes it is still absurd :)

[Rohirrim]

The Alexander thing had a lot to do with his contract status.

But, I agree... a first rounder for Lelie would be insane. Take that and run.

If they gave us their #7 for Lelie, somebody would have to come over to my house with a set of heart paddles.

[UboBronco]

How about Jeremy Bloom with a comp 3rd for a deep threat, and return man? If we should happen to give up on and trade away Ash...

[elsid13]

Well we know that Shanahan always thought he made a mistake holding on Miller for extra year when he had relative unknowns (Smith, Easy Ed)on the bench that were ready to step up and play. If Lelie goes I wouldn't be surprised if Devoe steps into the starting role.

[Rohirrim]

How about Jeremy Bloom with a comp 3rd for a deep threat, and return man? If we should happen to give up on and trade away Ash...

I'm not so sure Bloom will be around for our third comp. I expect him to light up the combine and move up considerably.

[eddie mac]

Well we know that Shanahan always thought he made a mistake holding on Miller for extra year when he had relative unknowns (Smith, Easy Ed)on the bench that were ready to step up and play. If Lelie goes I wouldn't be surprised if Devoe steps into the starting role.

Far too early for him bro. Charlie Adams and even Darius Watts have been in the Broncos set-up longer that this kid. There's no way Ash is going anywhere anyway unless Owens comes in plus Shanahan gets an early 2nd rounder.

[Northman]

Well we know that Shanahan always thought he made a mistake holding on Miller for extra year when he had relative unknowns (Smith, Easy Ed)on the bench that were ready to step up and play. If Lelie goes I wouldn't be surprised if Devoe steps into the starting role.


the thing is i think we should use more 3 receiver sets than we do. Give Jake more options with the ball.

[montrose]

I would be on board if we do sign T.O. and get a 1st for Ash (or move up in the 1st w/Ash + one of our picks). I just have a bad feeling that Lelie is being misused like hell.

P.S. Pleaseeeeeeee draft Sinorice Moss. He will be eventually be as good as his brother, I guarantee it.

[DBroncos4life]

I hate to see the look on TOs and Drew's faces when it dawns on them we have only one WR on our team with more then 10 catches last year. Yeah about my contract......

[TheDave]

Here's a thought what about Ashley and #22 (or #29) for the 49ers #7?

[Rohirrim]

Here's a thought what about Ashley and #22 for the 49ers #7?

That would put us in Mario/Haloti territory. ;D

[elsid13]

the thing is i think we should use more 3 receiver sets than we do. Give Jake more options with the ball.

Three WR set for the Bronco is #80, Some other guy and the TE. A third WR is overrated if you a TE that can catch and scheme that take advantage of him.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I don't like the idea of trading Ash. He is our vertical game and even if we get T.O., you never know how he will react in Denver. Ash is the only guy besides Bell that will stretch the field on a consistent basis.

SSJ

[SoCalBronco]

That would put us in Mario/Haloti territory. ;D

It would also assure us Lendale White or DeAngelo Williams.

[TheDave]

It would also assure us Lendale White or DeAngelo Williams.

or Vernon Davis :wiggle:

[WABronco]

Here's a thought what about Ashley and #22 (or #29) for the 49ers #7?

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!:yayaya:

[Mr. Trout]

Bring back Marcus Nash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yeah no kidding...the guy had over 40 TDs last year. bring him in for a tryout and see if he has improved his pro game.

[WABronco]

It would also assure us Lendale White or DeAngelo Williams.

Woop Woop Woop Woop Woop Woop!!!

Ohhh the possibilities!!!

[FADERPROOF]

so the worst offseason continues


This has been said for 3 offseasons' now.

[DB-Freak]

This has been said for 3 offseasons' now.
Only 3 years?

Definitely not.

[chanesaw]

I was thinking of a trade along the lines of:

SF gets
Lelie
#22
#29

Denver gets
#7
#39

[FADERPROOF]

Only 3 years?

Definitely not.

I have a bad memory, so I can only go back the past 3 offseasons.

[WABronco]

I was thinking of a trade along the lines of:

SF gets
Lelie
#22
#29

Denver gets
#7
#39

Ughhh, that's too much IMO.

I'd bet that Ash, 22, and an additional 3rd or 4th would get us 6/7.

Or, just trade Ash straight up for 39 so we get some serious depth...

[elsid13]

Worse thing about this thread it was the other teams that came knocking. Doesn't mean Shanahan going let them in.

[toad]

Lelie has underacheived here. He's a decent #2 NFL wideout, but he hasn't fulfilled his No. 1 pick expectations. Really only had one good season out of four, the way I see it.

I think its a combo of several things:
- Wrong system. We're a modified West Coast scheme...not a whole lot of vertical game in our offense. We pass to support the run.
- Weak Play and Inconsistency. Getting abused by physical corners, not making the tough grabs, even suffering from the occassional drops.
- Plummer. I like Plummer but he's not the strongest arm, not the most accurate, and he only has eyes for Rod.

I wonder if trade talk is writing on the wall that TO is coming? Bring in TO for a year or two and let Adams and DeVoe develop under him and Rod. TO bumps Lelie to #3 wideout as long as he's here and Lelie has much more value than the typical #3.

Would I hate to see Lelie go? Yes. Would I lose sleep over it? No.

[WABronco]

Worse thing about this thread it was the other teams that came knocking. Doesn't mean Shanahan going let them in.

If their offering a no. 1 or no. 2 pick deal, there's no way he can't let them in...

[Clockwork Orange]

Here's a thought what about Ashley and #22 (or #29) for the 49ers #7?

Lelie and the 22nd pick won't be enough to move up to #7. Hell, depending on the coin toss at the combine, the 49ers maybe holding the 6th pick. Lelie doesn't have enough value by himself to move up 15 or 16 spots.

I'm hoping it's the 49ers 2nd rounder for Lelie. That'd give the Broncos 2 1sts, 2 2nds, a 3rd, likely a 3rd round comp pick and 2 4ths. I'd be pretty happy with that.

[WABronco]

I'm hoping it's the 49ers 2nd rounder for Lelie. That'd give the Broncos 2 1sts, 2 2nds, a 3rd, likely a 3rd round comp pick and 2 4ths. I'd be pretty happy with that.

Yea, more realistic, but solid nonetheless...

[Clockwork Orange]

Yea, more realistic, but solid nonetheless...

With the depth of this draft there's going to be some great value to be had in round 2.

[WABronco]

With the depth of this draft there's going to be some great value to be had in round 2.

Gabe Watson, Darryl Tapp, Claude Wroten, Kamerion Wimbley, etc.

Hmmmmmmmm....:homer:

[FADERPROOF]

With the depth of this draft there's going to be some great value to be had in round 2.

Correct, especially when you factor in how it is not very top heavy, just a solid overall draft so picking up an extra 2nd rounder would be great.

[Clockwork Orange]

Gabe Watson, Darryl Tapp, Claude Wroten, Kamerion Wimbley, etc.

Hmmmmmmmm....:homer:

Bingo.

This is a great draft to have extra picks. If the Broncos insist on getting Owens, moving Lelie for a pick in this years draft isn't the worst possible move they can make. A year from now Lelie will likely be shopping his services elsewhere and could be lost for nothing. Especially if he feels as though he doesn't fit in the Broncos offense.

[broncohaven]

I like Ashley, but I don't think he's going to be a well rounded WR. He has insane ball skills, but his routes aren't where they need to be. I would hate to see him go, but if TO is coming to town and we get good value for him it's probably the best for the team.

I think Devoe can fill the deep threat role on the team, and has a better build to handle the underneath stuff as well with the ability to break tackles. I think he has a ton of potential. I was surprised when Kubiak was asked who the fastest player on the offense was other than Lelie, and Kubiak said that Devoe was just as fast as Lelie.

[TheDave]

Bingo.

This is a great draft to have extra picks. If the Broncos insist on getting Owens, moving Lelie for a pick in this years draft isn't the worst possible move they can make. A year from now Lelie will likely be shopping his services elsewhere and could be lost for nothing. Especially if he feels as though he doesn't fit in the Broncos offense.

Keep in mind though, this is already a very deep team. I have a hard time believing that anymore than 5-6 rookies will be able to make the final roster...and that's before free-agency

[Clockwork Orange]

Keep in mind though, this is already a very deep team. I have a hard time believing that anymore than 5-6 rookies will be able to make the final roster...and that's before free-agency

Possibly. But having that many picks also gives the Broncos the luxury of having a ton of ammo at their disposal should they decide that they want to trade up.

[WABronco]

Keep in mind though, this is already a very deep team. I have a hard time believing that anymore than 5-6 rookies will be able to make the final roster...and that's before free-agency

I fully expect the team to cut at least 2 DE's, if not 3. Warren may not be back, Brandon's probably gone, Lepsis, Carlisle can be improved, etc...

Ohhh, what do you guys think of the possibility of trading both Lelie and Putz to the Niners? Might make it a little easier...

[DBroncos4life]

Keep in mind though, this is already a very deep team. I have a hard time believing that anymore than 5-6 rookies will be able to make the final roster...and that's before free-agency
This is a good team, but in no way is it talented enough at WR to pull this off even with TO. I keep reading about Watts, Devoe, Adams, and Terrell. Sorry if I won't buy into them being very good. Only one of those guys has ever did anything in the NFL and he didn't catch a pass for us last year. Devoe had one catch on a pass that was behind him enough to cause the DB to over run it then fall down.

[Al Wilson]

I don't think he will be traded for a 2nd round pick.

The only way Mike will trade him is if it's in his best interest. Hell I duno what Mike is going to do. I don't think anybody here knows.

[TheDave]

This is a good team, but in no way is it talented enough at WR to pull this off even with TO. I keep reading about Watts, Devoe, Adams, and Terrell. Sorry if I won't buy into them being very good. Only one of those guys has ever did anything in the NFL and he didn't catch a pass for us last year. Devoe had one catch on a pass that was behind him enough to cause the DB to over run it then fall down.

TO (assuming he doesn't go insane) and Rod would be the best starting 2 we've ever had... add to that David Terell as the #3 guy we would be just fine at WR

[WABronco]

This is a good team, but in no way is it talented enough at WR to pull this off even with TO. I keep reading about Watts, Devoe, Adams, and Terrell. Sorry if I won't buy into them being very good. Only one of those guys has ever did anything in the NFL and he didn't catch a pass for us last year. Devoe had one catch on a pass that was behind him enough to cause the DB to over run it then fall down.

One of those guys would be an adequate no.3 option on a heavy-running team...

[DBroncos4life]

One of those guys would be an adequate no.3 option on a heavy-running team...
I thought the whole problem is we didn't have a number 3 guy worth a crap. Mike wanted to run 3 wide more but our 3rd WR couldn't do the job. Those guys are Adams and Devoe. Who BLOW ASSSSSSSSSSS.

[DB-Freak]

I think a better to great RB would be a better solution to our offense than any WR.

[Al Wilson]

I think a better to great RB would be a better solution to our offense than any WR.
Kind of agree, but a third WR would actually help a lot

[SoCalBronco]

Brandon Lloyd > Ashley Lelie

Your a fag.

[DB-Freak]

If we are gonna talk about WRs, I think having complete or better WRs are gonna more wonders for this offense than lets say specifically a better 3rd WR.

[Al Wilson]

If we are gonna talk about WRs, I think having complete or better WRs are gonna more wonders for this offense than lets say specifically a better 3rd WR.
3 Excellent WRs would help out the running game tremendously. Teams aren;t going to be focusing on stopping the run if Denver had the trio of Lelie, Smith and TO. The running game would improve tremendously, and the offense will be spread open.

It's like the old days when Denver had Sharpe, Rod and Eddie. The offense had a killer instinct.

[ludo21]

why is this thread still here?? Lelie is going to be a very good WR. He has continuedto improve every year. Why get rid of our only deep threat and only potential #1?
yeah, smart move.

[DB-Freak]

3 Excellent WRs would help out the running game tremendously. Teams aren;t going to be focusing on stopping the run if Denver had the trio of Lelie, Smith and TO. The running game would improve tremendously, and the offense will be spread open.

It's like the old days when Denver had Sharpe, Rod and Eddie. The offense had a killer instinct.
We need to think about getting a better 1st or 2nd WR before we start talking about 3rd WRs.

[Al Wilson]

why is this thread still here?? Lelie is going to be a very good WR. He has continuedto improve every year. Why get rid of our only deep threat and only potential #1?
yeah, smart move.
I agree, but nothing has happened yet. We'll have to wait and see.

[Kaylore]

I like Lelie and think he's one of the best players on our team. I would rather keep Lelie and invest in a better running back or tight end and let TO pass to somewhere else.

I wll say this, though. I don't think our offense maximizes his abilities. He seems like someone who would flourish on a Colts/Rams style team. If he wants to go to a team that is in a warmer climate and is more suited to the type of player he is, then I think we should let him.

[ludo21]

I like Lelie and think he's one of the best players on our team. I would rather keep Lelie and invest in a better running back or tight end and let TO pass to somewhere else.

I wll say this, though. I don't think opur offense maximizes his abilities. He seems like someone would flourish on Colts/Rams style team. If he wants to go to a team that is in a warmer climate and is more suited to the type of player he is, then I think we should let him.


not once have i heard he wants to go anywhere tho. Not that ive heard him talk much at all anyways, but he hasnt talked bad about us.

[Goobzilla]

Your a fag.

^5

[phibacka31]

I will be SOOOOOOOOOOOO pissed if we trade Ash. I LOVE the guy. His intermediate and short routes are coming around. His hands were absolutely gold towards the end of the year. We MUST resign him. He's young AND more importantly DAMN GOOD!

[Ray Finkle]

I fully expect the team to cut at least 2 DE's, if not 3. Warren may not be back, Brandon's probably gone, Lepsis, Carlisle can be improved, etc...

Ohhh, what do you guys think of the possibility of trading both Lelie and Putz to the Niners? Might make it a little easier...


well Lepsis is pretty much signed and they have been in talking with Warren's reps for almost 3 months...

[JCMElway]

I am either going to puke in disgust or poop myself in excitement....

Do both!!! :thumbs:

[JCMElway]

Hell I duno what Mike is going to do. I don't think anybody here knows.

True dat.

[Ray Finkle]

Do both!!! :thumbs:


I may....I just may...

[24champ]

this off-season is getting interesting by the day......

[Merlin]

If they gave us their #7 for Lelie, somebody would have to come over to my house with a set of heart paddles.
If they traded Lelie and Denver's 1A for their first, that would make Lelie's value around a #22 in the first round. If they are getting that type of market value for him it would be foolish to not take advantage of it, especially considering the quality of player they could get for the DL with a #6 or #7.

[Taco John]

I just received more confirmation of this rumor... with additional information that Philly might be interested as well...

[Clockwork Orange]

I just received more confirmation of this rumor... with additional information that Philly might be interested as well...

The plot thickens.

Lelie in Philly? That has potential.

[-Slap-]

so the worst offseason continues
No kidding. Imagine TO with no Lelie on the roster. He would really have management by the balls then.

[24champ]

I just received more confirmation of this rumor... with additional information that Philly might be interested as well...
What is philly willing to give up? TO?

[WABronco]

What is philly willing to give up? TO?

That's probably it. I'd rather do Lelie to SanFran for a pick and sign TO in FA, but if that's what Shanny wants, I'm good with it...

[Clockwork Orange]

What is philly willing to give up? TO?

They'd better be sending their 2nd rounder over with him.

[RhymesayersDU]

I just received more confirmation of this rumor... with additional information that Philly might be interested as well...
Oh man, I'm starting to foam at the mouth here...

We gotta get T.O.!

[Sassy]

This is making me ill...
No Ash.
Possible TO and RW.
Yuck.
ILL JUST ILL>

[RhymesayersDU]

This is making me ill...
No Ash.
Possible TO and RW.
Yuck.
ILL JUST ILL>
You won't be ill when we're winning SuperBowl 41.

[WABronco]

You won't be ill when we're winning SuperBowl 41.

YeeeeeYaaaaa!

[WABronco]

They'd better be sending their 2nd rounder over with him.

Really???

That's quite a bit for Lelie when they could just cut TO and save the pick, IMO.

[Clockwork Orange]

You won't be ill when we're winning SuperBowl 41.

http://cdn.channel.aol.com/channels/06/06/436d7d81-00288-00479-400cb8e1

[SoCalBronco]

Why would we trade for him? That would obligate us to give TO 7.5 million upfront without adding any additional protective clauses than the Eagles already had. We would be married to the original contract.

Im getting real close to exploding right now, with losing one of my boy's in addition to possibly being obligated to give TO 7.5 upfront.

[Clockwork Orange]

Really???

That's quite a bit for Lelie when they could just cut TO and save the pick, IMO.

Yes, they can cut Owens if they like. But if they want Lelie, it's going to cost them.

Unlike Owens, Lelie has some trade value.

[WABronco]

Why would we trade for him? That would obligate us to give TO 7.5 million upfront without adding any additional protective clauses than the Eagles already had. We would be married to the original contract.

Im getting real close to exploding right now, with losing one of my boy's in addition to possibly being obligated to give TO 7.5 upfront.

Couldn't we restructure it or sign him to a new one? I dunno, maybe I have noooo idea what I'm talking about...

But yes, I don't want to trade for him.

[24champ]

TO and a 2nd rounder? Ill be doing backflips in my house if that happens. Gotta restructure the contract though.

[Clockwork Orange]

TO and a 2nd rounder? Ill be doing backflips in my house if that happens.

I say that because Owens has zero trade value. The Eagles are going to cut him in early March anyway.

Lelie is going to cost them a first day pick, especially if there are other teams bidding for his services.

[WABronco]

TO and a 2nd rounder? Ill be doing backflips in my house if that happens. Gotta restructure the contract though.

I'd mix in some cartwheels and crazy-summersaults too...

[WABronco]

I say that because Owens has zero trade value. The Eagles are going to cut him in early March anyway.

Lelie is going to cost them a first day pick, especially if there are other teams bidding for his services.

What about other teams bidding for Owens though? I dunno, maybe that's a load of bs and it's just the Broncos...

[24champ]

I'd mix in some cartwheels and crazy-summersaults too...
:yep: ^5

[Clockwork Orange]

What about other teams bidding for Owens though? I dunno, maybe that's a load of bs and it's just the Broncos...

Regardless of who else is interested in him, Owens has no trade value because he's going to be cut at the beginning of March.

The Eagles would be fortunate to get a 7th round pick for him.

[Sassy]

Why would we trade for him? That would obligate us to give TO 7.5 million upfront without adding any additional protective clauses than the Eagles already had. We would be married to the original contract.

Im getting real close to exploding right now, with losing one of my boy's in addition to possibly being obligated to give TO 7.5 upfront.
Wanna go out and get drunk. :welcome:

[WABronco]

Regardless of who else is interested in him, Owens has no trade value because he's going to be cut at the beginning of March.

The Eagles would be fortunate to get a 7th round pick for him.

All right, cool...

[Sassy]

You won't be ill when we're winning SuperBowl 41.
Wanna bet.
Especially if it's TO with a winning TD.
We can win the SB without him.

[24champ]

Wanna go out and get drunk. :welcome:
sassy im curious since your in the anti-TO crowd, will you stand up and cheer if TO scores a TD as a Bronco?

[Clockwork Orange]

sassy im curious since your in the anti-TO crowd, will you stand up and cheer if TO scores a TD as a Bronco?

I won't speak for Sassy, but as a member of the anti-Owens crowd, I'll offer my opinion.

As Dave Logan always says when a Bronco gets into the end zone on the KOA broadcasts, "That is a Denver touchdown."

I root for what's on the front of the uniform, not the back. I don't have to like Owens to hope that he does well when he puts on that Bronco uniform.

[Sassy]

sassy im curious since your in the anti-TO crowd, will you stand up and cheer if TO scores a TD as a Bronco?
No. But IF he's wearing a Bronco uniform I'l cheer for the team.
He's going to tear apart this team. Just watch.

[Sassy]

Hey WA where do you live in Washington?

[NFLBRONCO]

Wanna bet.
Especially if it's TO with a winning TD.
We can win the SB without him.

Question is though if we can win a SB without TO why is Denver going after him? They must feel we need a playmaker here esp being in AFC it's loaded with talented teams.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I would hate to lose a threat like Lelie, but let's face it...he's just not anywhere near the threat that Owens is. Owens can turn something into nothing. He can make plays for his QB. Lelie needs Jake to make plays for him. TO is a superior player in every aspect of the position.

Here's what I hope happens: Lelie goes for SF's #2. Denver then uses 1a and 1b on trench players (OL and DL). We all know that those are the guys who really win the game for you anyhoo. Denver uses one of their 2 2nd rounders to choose the best available WR or TE. They get a top-level talent as a two-way TE or a 3rd WR for relatively cheap.

Denver would be in the best position out of any NFL team to make the most noise in the deepest draft in recent history and have the best WR in the game to pair with Rod. That's some solid GM work right there.

[-Slap-]

I won't speak for Sassy, but as a member of the anti-Owens crowd, I'll offer my opinion.

As Dave Logan always says when a Bronco gets into the end zone on the KOA broadcasts, "That is a Denver touchdown."

I root for what's on the front of the uniform, not the back. I don't have to like Owens to hope that he does well when he puts on that Bronco uniform.
I agree with Clockwork.

[-Slap-]

No. But IF he's wearing a Bronco uniform I'll cheer for the team.
He's going to tear apart this team. Just watch.

I agree with Sassy.

[baja]

Ashlie should go to Indy than we will see how good he really is.

This kid will be a super star in that system.

[SoCalBronco]

Even TO is only a short term solution (and that ofcourse assumes he completely turns over a new leaf and we dont dump him ala IHOP after Year 1, or during Year 1) since he is about 32 I think.

[WABronco]

Hey WA where do you live in Washington?

Oak Harbor, Whidbey Island. 'Bout 60 miles North of Seattle...

It's a nice place.

[Clockwork Orange]

Ashlie should go to Indy than we will see how good he really is.

This kid will be a super star in that system.

Let him go to Philly and catch some deep passes from McNabb.

[Sassy]

I agree with Sassy.
...and if this team goes from almost first to worse with TO I'll be pissed!

[Clockwork Orange]

...and if this team goes from almost first to worse with TO I'll be pissed!

I'll be very curious to see what all the people here who've said, "What's the worst that can happen?" have to say then.

[Sassy]

Oak Harbor, Whidbey Island. 'Bout 60 miles North of Seattle...

It's a nice place.
Just curious. My sister lives in Clarkston. I was out there and flew through Sea/Tac for Christmas.

[NFLBRONCO]

...and if this team goes from almost first to worse with TO I'll be pissed!

Me too but, Denver feels they need his type of talent to get through AFC I guess.

[NFLBRONCO]

I'll be very curious to see what all the people here who've said, "What's the worst that can happen?" have to say then.


I'm for this move but, I'm aware it could easily backfire on us.