Nugs To Acquire Steve Francis?

[Nuggets4]

The biggest name pimping this is Peter Vescey, which normally means it's false. But I've heard it a few other places as well. Vescey is saying we're sending Nene & Watson to the Knicks in the deal (3 or 4 way), while I read somewhere else (can't remember where now) that we're sending Kenyon (or, as CO accurately calls him, Kenyon).

I hate Francis, so I'm against any deal. That said, as long as we keep Dre to run the point, it might not be a complete failure. Thoughts?

[GonzoLays]

I heard Francis was going to Boston for Raef Lafrentz and two first round draft picks.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

So Nugs give up Kenyon, Watson, and Nene and only get Francis back?

[RhymesayersDU]

I think we need a legit 2nd scorer, but with that said, I don't know if I want Francis.

[WABronco]

I read on another rumor site that Watson would be spun off to Seattle.

Yess......

[RhymesayersDU]

Yeah WA, I read that the Watson to Seattle talks were open again.

Anyways, how bout that game last night everybody? Andre Miller with the steal to win the game.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The biggest name pimping this is Peter Vescey, which normally means it's false. But I've heard it a few other places as well. Vescey is saying we're sending Nene & Watson to the Knicks in the deal (3 or 4 way), while I read somewhere else (can't remember where now) that we're sending Kenyon (or, as CO accurately calls him, Kenyon).

I hate Francis, so I'm against any deal. That said, as long as we keep Dre to run the point, it might not be a complete failure. Thoughts?
He has the same disease that I have. It's pretty amazing to me that he can even play at all.

[Ray Finkle]

take Vescey at half face value.....he is correct about 35% of the time.

[RhymesayersDU]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38987/20060205/francis_on_the_verge_of_being_dealt_to_denver/

Francis On The Verge Of Being Dealt To Denver?
5th February, 2006 - 11:56 am
NY Post - He may not know all the particulars, but Peter Vecsey does know Steve Francis, whose friction of late with coach Brian Hill and consequent two-game suspension is well documented, is on the verge of being sent from Orlando to Denver.

In exchange, the Nuggets would give up Nene and Watson, who would either wind up in New York or Seattle. Obviously, the Knicks would have to surrender one of their youngbloods, preferably a guard, whereas the Sonics are prepared to part with Reggie Evans, Ronald Murray and Vitaly Potapenko. The second wave of talks is linked to Ratliff, Ruben Patterson and Penny Hardaway.

"Everyone is on board with the Francis trade but one team," asserted one of the participants, declining to divulge its identity. "Something's either going to get done or it'll be dead within the next 48 hours."

[RhymesayersDU]

If all we traded was Nene and Watson, I'd be so amped for this trade.

andre/franchise/melo/kmart/camby

ooooooooh yeeeeeeeah.

[watermock]

NBA trade rumors are constant. If we wind up with Ricky, T.O. and Francis, I will lose it and move to Oakland for something more sane.

[Clockwork Orange]

Unless he's willing to play the 2, we have no use for Francis.

[halfcreek]

NBA trade rumors are constant. If we wind up with Ricky, T.O. and Francis, I will lose it and move to Oakland for something more sane.
Well, that clinches it. Pull the trigger on all three.

[WABronco]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38987/20060205/francis_on_the_verge_of_being_dealt_to_denver/

Francis On The Verge Of Being Dealt To Denver?
5th February, 2006 - 11:56 am
NY Post - He may not know all the particulars, but Peter Vecsey does know Steve Francis, whose friction of late with coach Brian Hill and consequent two-game suspension is well documented, is on the verge of being sent from Orlando to Denver.

In exchange, the Nuggets would give up Nene and Watson, who would either wind up in New York or Seattle. Obviously, the Knicks would have to surrender one of their youngbloods, preferably a guard, whereas the Sonics are prepared to part with Reggie Evans, Ronald Murray and Vitaly Potapenko. The second wave of talks is linked to Ratliff, Ruben Patterson and Penny Hardaway.

"Everyone is on board with the Francis trade but one team," asserted one of the participants, declining to divulge its identity. "Something's either going to get done or it'll be dead within the next 48 hours."

The team holding it up is probably Seattle. Ughhh...

[Nuggets4]

take Vescey at half face value.....he is correct about 35% of the time.

I take Vescey at negative value. He's never right. That said, this rumor has been going for a LONG time, and it's pretty well known that Kiki has a hard on for Stevie.

Unless he's willing to play the 2, we have no use for Francis.

He has to play the 2. Orlando gave up trying to use him as a PG which he's useless at. Makes it that much more important that we don't trade Dre in any deal for SF.

Ugh. I hate Francis. I'm not sure I can handle this.

[Paladin]

I don't know the "Saga of Francis" so I don't know the ins and outs or the pros and cons of this rumor. Really doesn't matter yet until someone does something. Right now, I am of the mind that the Nuggets need a big a$$ed mean mofocking center who can rebound and put a couple of elbows into the opposition in the lane. And plays more nights than not. Don't know if there is one of them around or not, but that would be nice.

The play by Miller was neat, particularly after that Wannabe Center threw the damm intercept away. Why wouldn't the Nuggets want to throw Boykins in as a throw in, so to speak?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Francis is a wreck. Bringing him in to play with Anthony is a big mistake. I hope that Denver turns this deal down really quickly.

Here's what Denver needs to do: trade Anthony for Chris Paul.

[ChampBailey24]

Francis is a wreck. Bringing him in to play with Anthony is a big mistake. I hope that Denver turns this deal down really quickly.

Here's what Denver needs to do: trade Anthony for Chris Paul.
trade the chosen one are you crazy!

[epicSocialism4tw]

trade the chosen one are you crazy!

The chosen one? Chosen to do what? Chris Paul is a winner. Mark my words, he'll be the best PG in the league and one of the league's dominant 2-way players within 3 years.

OKC is as good as Anthony's team right now. Who has the better talent?

[Casper Bronco]

I'm all for it. I don't know about you guys but I am getting sick and tired of kenyon martin. His constant injuries and inconsistent play is getting old. Add that to the fact that makes entirely too much money. The nuggets would you get a scorer (from outside) who would play the 2 guard and switch off with Andre Miller.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'm all for it. I don't know about you guys but I am getting sick and tired of kenyon martin. His constant injuries and inconsistent play is getting old. Add that to the fact that makes entirely too much money. The nuggets would you get a scorer (from outside) who would play the 2 guard and switch off with Andre Miller.

Francis basically is Miller. Francis doesnt pass as much and dominates the ball much more than Miller. I actually like Miller much better than I do Francis. Francis is waaay overrated. His all-star appearances are due to playing for the China Rockets.

[Nuggets4]

Francis is a wreck. Bringing him in to play with Anthony is a big mistake. I hope that Denver turns this deal down really quickly.

Here's what Denver needs to do: trade Anthony for Chris Paul.

http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/4052/195se9tg.jpg

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/6236/what7ny.gif

http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/1932/ulosegooddaysir1wb2jv.gif

[Casper Bronco]

Francis is a wreck. Bringing him in to play with Anthony is a big mistake. I hope that Denver turns this deal down really quickly.

Here's what Denver needs to do: trade Anthony for Chris Paul.

What a joke!!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Dont like that idea? :D I didnt think you would!

I'm not saying that Anthony is a bad player, or that he doesnt have a future. What I am saying is that Paul is going to be one of the top couple of players in the NBA. He's also going to be a dominant PG, which is much harder to find than a SF of Anthony's calibur. Denver has the horses to stay put, move Anthony, and become the best transition offense in the NBA. Martin accels in the fast break, Miller can move to the 2 and act as a Joe Johnson type, Camby is mobile and can pull the opposing C out, the Nugs have several players that can give them meaningful minutes at the 3.

It's a radical idea, no doubt, but one that I think would move denver from also-ran status to a contender this season, and keep them in contention until Paul retires.

[Clockwork Orange]

Dont like that idea? :D I didnt think you would!

I'm not saying that Anthony is a bad player, or that he doesnt have a future. What I am saying is that Paul is going to be one of the top couple of players in the NBA. He's also going to be a dominant PG, which is much harder to find than a SF of Anthony's calibur. Denver has the horses to stay put, move Anthony, and become the best transition offense in the NBA. Martin accels in the fast break, Miller can move to the 2 and act as a Joe Johnson type, Camby is mobile and can pull the opposing C out, the Nugs have several players that can give them meaningful minutes at the 3.

It's a radical idea, no doubt, but one that I think would move denver from also-ran status to a contender this season, and keep them in contention until Paul retires.

The last thing the Nuggets need is another point guard. Sorry, I love Chris Paul and I thank my lucky stars every day that Utah passed on him to take Deron Williams, but he's not what the Nuggets need. They need a 2 guard who can stretch defenses by consistantly knocking down outside shots.

Andre Miller can't play the 2 and he definitely can't play the role of Joe Johnson. The reason for that being that Andre can't shoot outside of about 15 feet. For Christ's sake, he shoots a set shot, he doesn't even have a jumper. He's good at getting to the basket and drawing contact, but asking him to be a shooter would be a miserable failure. Kenyon can run the break when he's not sitting on the bench nursing his latest injury.

Carmelo is the reason why the Nuggets still have their heads above water this season. He is the present & future of this team. He's not being traded, period.

As for Steve Francis, I don't doubt that Kiki's trying to get him. How he'll fit in is anyone's guess, but history suggests that he'll be selfish, moody and an overall asshole.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The last thing the Nuggets need is another point guard. Sorry, I love Chris Paul and I thank my lucky stars every day that Utah passed on him to take Deron Williams, but he's not what the Nuggets need. They need a 2 guard who can stretch defenses by consistantly knocking down outside shots.

Andre Miller can't play the 2 and he definitely can't play the role of Joe Johnson. The reason for that being that Andre can't shoot outside of about 15 feet. For Christ's sake, he shoots a set shot, he doesn't even have a jumper. He's good at getting to the basket and drawing contact, but asking him to be a shooter would be a miserable failure. Kenyon can run the break when he's not sitting on the bench nursing his latest injury.

Carmelo is the reason why the Nuggets still have their heads above water this season. He is the present & future of this team. He's not being traded, period.

As for Steve Francis, I don't doubt that Kiki's trying to get him. How he'll fit in is anyone's guess, but history suggests that he'll be selfish, moody and an overall a-hole.

First off, good well reasoned post.

I think that Paul is a better player at a more position more difficult to fill than Anthony. Paul has already turned OKC around. It's the one of the stories that the NBA's missed while fawning over Bryant's mediocre Lakers (who Paul dismantled last night to move into the 7th seed). Miller and Paul would make an excellent penetrate and dish backcourt. SF's grow on trees. If I were Kiki, I would find a way to do this:

Den trades to OKC:
Anthony
Boykins

Den receives:
Paul
JR Smith

[maven]

Francis has been a trade option for over a year. Denver has also been mentioned as an option for over a year. Nothing new.

[Jens1893]

is paul pierce still being shopped?

[epicSocialism4tw]

is paul pierce still being shopped?

Supposedly, Ainge is ready to talk extension with him. We'll see though. He might be driving up the price.

[RhymesayersDU]

Well, this didn't take long...

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38997/20060205/francis_deal_dead/

Francis Deal Dead
5th February, 2006 - 11:04 pm
New York Times - According to the New York Times, the three way deal involving Orlando, Denver and New York is dead.

The teams discussed sending Orlando's Steve Francis to Denver, with two Nuggets players, point guard Earl Watson and forward Bryon Russell, going to the Knicks.

The Knicks would have sent Trevor Ariza to Denver and would have probably dealt Crawford to Orlando. The Nuggets would have shipped Nenê and Voshon Lenard to the Magic.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Well, this didn't take long...

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38997/20060205/francis_deal_dead/

Francis Deal Dead
5th February, 2006 - 11:04 pm
New York Times - According to the New York Times, the three way deal involving Orlando, Denver and New York is dead.

The teams discussed sending Orlando's Steve Francis to Denver, with two Nuggets players, point guard Earl Watson and forward Bryon Russell, going to the Knicks.

The Knicks would have sent Trevor Ariza to Denver and would have probably dealt Crawford to Orlando. The Nuggets would have shipped Nenê and Voshon Lenard to the Magic.

Thank goodness for you Nuggfans. Francis is an intolerable cancer.

Well, now you can focus on the Anthony for Paul trade ;D

[Nuggets4]

Well, this didn't take long...

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38997/20060205/francis_deal_dead/

Francis Deal Dead
5th February, 2006 - 11:04 pm
New York Times - According to the New York Times, the three way deal involving Orlando, Denver and New York is dead.

The teams discussed sending Orlando's Steve Francis to Denver, with two Nuggets players, point guard Earl Watson and forward Bryon Russell, going to the Knicks.

The Knicks would have sent Trevor Ariza to Denver and would have probably dealt Crawford to Orlando. The Nuggets would have shipped Nenê and Voshon Lenard to the Magic.

$10 says the deal is back on by the deadline.

[Clockwork Orange]

The trade was probably just more of Vescey's made up garbage to begin with.

[RhymesayersDU]

http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2B6SK42TR4P7P11SOCZOK2L9GY

Carmelo's dunk on Ratliff last night at the end of the game, the 3 point play. It's epic.

[broncos-rock]

I would love to see Paul Pierce and Theo Ratliff in a nuggs uniform

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2B6SK42TR4P7P11SOCZOK2L9GY

Carmelo's dunk on Ratliff last night at the end of the game, the 3 point play. It's epic.

It would have been better if he wouldnt have swiped Ratliff's hands away with his left hand and used him to leverage on. The refs called the foul on the wrong guy. That would have been a block.

[Clockwork Orange]

It would have been better if he wouldnt have swiped Ratliff's hands away with his left hand and used him to leverage on. The refs called the foul on the wrong guy. That would have been a block.

But if it were a Mavs player doing the exact same thing, it'd be the play of the year and that player would deserve to win MVP/6th Man/Rookie of the Year/Coach of the Year or all of the above for it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

But if it were a Mavs player doing the exact same thing, it'd be the play of the year and that player would deserve to win MVP/6th Man/Rookie of the Year/Coach of the Year or all of the above for it.

Nah...I just wouldnt prop it up like it's the play of the day. Dirk makes those plays in nearly every game. I dont have to grasp onto them to garner momentum for his play. He's always that good. You'd be surprised.

Have you seen Stackhouse's facial on Jermaine O'Neal? That, sir, was a man's dunk.

So, youre saying that he didnt foul the defender?

[Clockwork Orange]

Nah...I just wouldnt prop it up like it's the play of the day. Dirk makes those plays in nearly every game. I dont have to grasp onto them to garner momentum for his play. He's always that good. You'd be surprised.

Have you seen Stackhouse's facial on Jermaine O'Neal? That, sir, was a man's dunk.

So, youre saying that he didnt foul the defender?

LOL

Dirk does that nearly every game? Oh yeah, I forgot, he also walks on water, cures lepers and was cheated out of the last 5 league MVP awards. Thanks again for your usual completely unbiased analysis llama.

I don't need that one play to prop up Carmelo's game. He put up 33 points and dished out 8 assists that night. I'd say he did plenty more then just posterize Theo Ratliff. But he's not a Mav, so it was predictable that you'd find something to nitpick.

[epicSocialism4tw]

LOL

Dirk does that nearly every game? Oh yeah, I forgot, he also walks on water, cures lepers and was cheated out of the last 5 league MVP awards. Thanks again for your usual completely unbiased analysis llama.

I don't need that one play to prop up Carmelo's game. He put up 33 points and dished out 8 assists that night. I'd say he did plenty more then just posterize Theo Ratliff. But he's not a Mav, so it was predictable that you'd find something to nitpick.


That's a good game, and I think that Anthony's a player with great potential. I picked at the dunk because it was bogus.

You are the one who brought up Dallas. I can find holes in Dirk's game too. They just arent as noticeable as Anthony's are.

[Clockwork Orange]

I can find holes in Dirk's game too. They just arent as noticeable as Anthony's are.

That's to be expected. Anthony is 21 years old and is in his 3rd NBA season. Nowitzki is 27 and is in his 8th.

[epicSocialism4tw]

That's to be expected. Anthony is 21 years old and is in his 3rd NBA season. Nowitzki is 27 and is in his 8th.

Sure. I was just using that to illustrate. Like I said before, I think that Anthony is a great talent and has a bright future. I originally thought that he would be a winner before James would. He's got a unique set of skills, he just needs to mature.

[Clockwork Orange]

Sure. I was just using that to illustrate. Like I said before, I think that Anthony is a great talent and has a bright future. I originally thought that he would be a winner before James would. He's got a unique set of skills, he just needs to mature.

He's getting there. He's cursed with the fact that he came into the league in the same draft as Lebron, who is clearly the superior player. But now it seems that he'll always be measured against Lebron despite the fact that they play different positions in different systems in different conferences.

The strides he's made this season haven't just been in his scoring and FG%, his teammates and coaches have spoke very highly about what a leader he's become.

I honestly believed that Marcus Camby was the most crucial player to the Nuggets success until he missed a month with a broken finger and Carmelo put the team on his back and carried them to an 11-5 record in that stretch.

And yes, he did ward Ratliff off with his off arm on that dunk. But that's one of the things about the NBA that I stopped complaining about a while back because it's not going to change. Just like travelling, palming and flopping, the officials seem to be oblivious to it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

And yes, he did ward Ratliff off with his off arm on that dunk. But that's one of the things about the NBA that I stopped complaining about a while back because it's not going to change. Just like travelling, palming and flopping, the officials seem to be oblivious to it.

NBA officiating is horrible. You know it's bad when the norm is this: the other team's guard gets a questionable call leading to free throws, then your team's guard gets a 'make up' call to offset the bad call. When mistakes and makeups are a regular part of the norm, things are off-kilter. I wish that they would be more like college refs and call the game straight.

[Clockwork Orange]

I wish that they would be more like college refs and call the game straight.

That's all you can really ask of them.

Something else that bugs the piss out of me is the superstar treatment that some players get. How many times have you been watching a game where the star player of the opposing team picks up his 5th foul and you immediatly say to yourself, "He won't get called for another foul the rest of the game no matter what he does." 99 times out of 100, that's exactly what happens. That just kills me.

[epicSocialism4tw]

That's all you can really ask of them.

Something else that bugs the piss out of me is the superstar treatment that some players get. How many times have you been watching a game where the star player of the opposing team picks up his 5th foul and you immediatly say to yourself, "He won't get called for another foul the rest of the game no matter what he does." 99 times out of 100, that's exactly what happens. That just kills me.

Ugh. That really sucks. It's not for all "stars" though, just for select stars. My rankings of most benefitting from star treatment:

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Whichever Laker has the ball
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Manu Ginobili

[Clockwork Orange]

950 The Fan, during one of their updates, said that the Francis deal is dead and that it was Orlando who backed out.

They also reported that the Bulls are interested in trading for Kenyon Martin. No mention of particulars, just that the Bulls are interested. Stay tuned.

[Nuggets4]

950 The Fan, during one of their updates, said that the Francis deal is dead and that it was Orlando who backed out.

They also reported that the Bulls are interested in trading for Kenyon Martin. No mention of particulars, just that the Bulls are interested. Stay tuned.

One of the guys on the Nugs board I post on suggested that K-Mart & Vo for Ben Gordon and Tim Thomas works.

I'd do that deal in a second.

[bronco_diesel]

That's all you can really ask of them.

Something else that bugs the piss out of me is the superstar treatment that some players get. How many times have you been watching a game where the star player of the opposing team picks up his 5th foul and you immediatly say to yourself, "He won't get called for another foul the rest of the game no matter what he does." 99 times out of 100, that's exactly what happens. That just kills me.

i've felt for a while now that the NBA needs to go back to 5 fouls and you are out. 6 fouls per player is just too many fouls to give away...it leads to laziness, bad position, and slows the game down.

if a player had only 5 fouls, i think it would change the game just enough to make it more enjoyable. it would speed it up...people play smarter..etc. etc.

[bronco_diesel]

One of the guys on the Nugs board I post on suggested that K-Mart & Vo for Ben Gordon and Tim Thomas works.

I'd do that deal in a second.


i like kenyon, but he's been very dissapointing for us...mainly due to his injuries. i think if anyone is willing to take his salary off our hands, it may be a good idea. i'd like to see ben gordon here...

[Clockwork Orange]

One of the guys on the Nugs board I post on suggested that K-Mart & Vo for Ben Gordon and Tim Thomas works.

I'd do that deal in a second.

I'd take that deal in half a heartbeat. Whatever gets us out from under Kenyon's contract works for me.

If they got Ben Gordon, they've got their 2 guard situation taken care of. Then they need only to re-sign Nene in the offseason and everything will be fine.

[Clockwork Orange]

I just checked the deal on Real GM and it does work. Even better is that Thomas' contract is up after this season, clearing a nice chunk of money off the cap.

If that's the deal on the table, take it and run Kiki.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'd take that deal in half a heartbeat. Whatever gets us out from under Kenyon's contract works for me.

If they got Ben Gordon, they've got their 2 guard situation taken care of. Then they need only to re-sign Nene in the offseason and everything will be fine.

Ben Gordon would be a great fit with Anthony. He's got the competitiveness that Anthony sometimes lacks...and he's got a great outside shot. Those two could work the in-out post game pretty well.

I dont see Chicago trading him for Martin though. They would be tying up too much money. It seems like Chicago would be giving up a little too much in that deal.

[Clockwork Orange]

I dont see Chicago trading him for Martin though. They would be tying up too much money. It seems like Chicago would be giving up a little too much in that deal.

Perhaps, but Gordon & Skiles haven't been getting along and the Bulls have been rumored to be shopping him for a while now. Why they're interested in Kenyon is beyond me, but that's what was reported.

[Nuggets4]

Ben Gordon would be a great fit with Anthony. He's got the competitiveness that Anthony sometimes lacks.

Yeah, Melo really lacked competitiveness carrying his team to the NCAA title his freshman year, and the playoffs his first two years in the league.

Your Melo hating is getting older than your Dirk love-fest.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yeah, Melo really lacked competitiveness carrying his team to the NCAA title his freshman year, and the playoffs his first two years in the league.


I like Anthony, but he's got a long way to go before he can mature into a top level NBA competitor. He has just begun to show flashes of killer instinct over the recent months. He's got tons of room to go, but he's still a second class player right now. The first class players have been leading their teams to wins for years now, and deserve the all-NBA team recognition that they get. The Nuggets havent been a serious contender at any point in Anthony's career thus far, and NCAA success doesnt translate into the NBA. There are other guys in the league who are exemplary of what Anthony is not, and Im sure that you can figure out who those guys are by their success.

If you dont like my opinion, that's cool. I respect that you like to root for the home guys. Everyone does.

[WaffleBoy]

Nugs need a point guard--not another shooter.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[Clockwork Orange]

Nugs need a point guard--not another shooter.

The Nuggets have three point guards and no shooters. Try to get the facts straight just once, you ignorant fvck.

[WaffleBoy]

The Nuggets have three point guards and no shooters. Try to get the facts straight just once, you ignorant fvck.

They are not true point guards. How many times have Charles and Kenny have said the Nuggets need a point guard? They have a shooter posing at point guard. I thought Watson was a great pickup but he hasn't played like I thought he would in Denver.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[Master___Pain]

They are not true point guards.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Is it hard to type and think with Ben's cock in your mouth?

[Clockwork Orange]

They are not true point guards.

Really? How so?

Andre Miller is a point guard. He's averaging 8 assists per game this season and once averaged 11 assists per game in a aseason when he was in Cleveland. He can't shoot outside of 15 feet, but he's a good passer and can penetrate. He's a point guard.

Earl Boykins is 5'5. Enough said.

Earl Watson is a pass first guy, solid defender and decent shooter when called upon. He too has played point guard for most of his career.

So spare me another of your idiotic one sentence posts Waffle. You don't know dick about this situation.

[Clockwork Orange]

They are not true point guards. How many times have Charles and Kenny have said the Nuggets need a point guard? They have a shooter posing at point guard. I thought Watson was a great pickup but he hasn't played like I thought he would in Denver.

The fact that you rely on Charles & Kenny to educate you on the subject speaks volumes about how little you actually know.

Try actually watching the games and coming up with an informed opinion for a change. That'll give you a leg up on Charles & Kenny right there.

[WaffleBoy]

Really? How so?

Andre Miller is a point guard. He's averaging 8 assists per game this season and once averaged 11 assists per game in a aseason when he was in Cleveland. He can't shoot outside of 15 feet, but he's a good passer and can penetrate. He's a point guard.

Earl Boykins is 5'5. Enough said.

Earl Watson is a pass first guy, solid defender and decent shooter when called upon. He too has played point guard for most of his career.

So spare me another of your idiotic one sentence posts Waffle. You don't know dick about this situation.

None of those guys make their teammates better. They need someone who can get Martin and Anthony some easy shots. Miller is not a point guard. He's a shooter. Watson should be starting. He's their closest thing to a true point. Boykins is another shooter and definitely not a point guard. Plus, they are playing the wrong style ball. They should be more of an up and down team (i.e., Suns), but without a "true" point guard it would be difficult anyway.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[Master___Pain]

None of those guys make their teammates better. They need someone who can get Martin and Anthony some easy shots. Miller is not a point guard. He's a shooter. Watson should be starting. He's their closest thing to a true point. Boykins is another shooter and definitely not a point guard. Plus, they are playing the wrong style ball. They should be more of an up and down team (i.e., Suns), but without a "true" point guard it would be difficult anyway.

The Boy Wonder :super:

You've never watched a Nuggs game.

[Nuggets4]

I'm a HUGE Dre homer and not even I would call him a shooter.

[Clockwork Orange]

None of those guys make their teammates better. They need someone who can get Martin and Anthony some easy shots. Miller is not a point guard. He's a shooter. Watson should be starting. He's their closest thing to a true point. Boykins is another shooter and definitely not a point guard. Plus, they are playing the wrong style ball. They should be more of an up and down team (i.e., Suns), but without a "true" point guard it would be difficult anyway.

Andre Miller is not a shooter. I know, you heard Charles Barkley say it so you've accepted it as gospel truth. As I said earlier in this thread, he doesn't even have a jumper, he shoots a set shot. He can't hit anything from outside of 15 feet. He throws a better lob pass than almost anyone in the league, as anyone who watches the Nuggets play will tell you. He sets up Carmelo, Kenyon & Camby for plenty of easy baskets.

Boykins is not a good enough shooter to be a 2 guard. Plus he's at least a full foot shorter than practically every other 2 guard in the league. That's a bad matchup no matter how you slice it. Watson is a solid point guard, but he's actually the best shooter of the three. Charles didn't tell you that?

Again, if you actually watched the games, you'd probably know all of this already. Yet you persist to try and speak on an issue that you know absolutely nothing about.

[bronco_diesel]

None of those guys make their teammates better. They need someone who can get Martin and Anthony some easy shots. Miller is not a point guard. He's a shooter. Watson should be starting. He's their closest thing to a true point. Boykins is another shooter and definitely not a point guard. Plus, they are playing the wrong style ball. They should be more of an up and down team (i.e., Suns), but without a "true" point guard it would be difficult anyway.

The Boy Wonder :super:

dre is far from a shooter - he's a slasher. he makes moves off the dribble and has a pretty good shot (on the move) inside 15ft. he is a terrible spot up shooter.

boykins is also a slasher but has better range and can spot up at times. though his game is primarily slashing and creating his shot. he's not a spot up shooter who can open up the court. (+ he is too short to really be of impact - he's easy to block)

having a slashing pg is good - someone who can create off the dribble and, hit his shot and finish (see tony parker)....however unless you have a guy who can nail a 3 fairly consistent, the d will collaps essentially taking away the slashing. denver does not need another pg - they need a guy who can spot up and hit the 3 consistently - ala steve kerr, ben gordon.

[Clockwork Orange]

Andre Miller is shooting an amazing 12% from three point range this year and is a career 21% from beyond the arc.

Yeah, that's a shooter allright.

[BroncoBuff]

He has the same disease that I have. It's pretty amazing to me that he can even play at all.
What disease is that?

[BroncoBuff]

Andre Miller is shooting an amazing 12% from three point range this year and is a career 21% from beyond the arc.

Yeah, that's a shooter allright.
Not only that, isn't it pretty well settled that he is not the
ideal PG for a George Karl offense? (Or Doug Moe offense?)
I might've missed something, but I thought Earl Watson
was set to be the guy, and it was MILLER who was on the
block. He could command an excellent return.

And I seriously doubt they'd trade Carmelo for Paul ...
We have too many point guards now.

[BroncoBuff]

I'm a HUGE Dre homer and not even I would call him a shooter.
He's not a shooter, no. And while nobody makes this
comparison, I'll give it a shot:

Andre reminds me of my all-time favorite athlete:
Fat Lever.

Obsessively zoned into the game on the floor ... not afraid
to rebound and play defense ... but not a big shooter.
And just like Dre, they thought Fat was not up to Doug
Moe's "early offense" when he came over from Portland in
the Kiki trade in 85.

They're the same guy.

PS: From the Ripley's file: I was in a ROSS Store here
in Seattle a couppla months ago, and some dude was
wearing an Arizona State basketball jersey with the
number 12 on it. I asked him (half-jokingly) if it said
"Lever" on the back. He smiled and turned around, and ...
DAMN!

Right there above the number - LEVER.

[RhymesayersDU]

I am seriously rolling on the floor laughing at Andre Miller being a "Shooter posed as a point guard."

I like Dre, but let's be honest, he's can't hit a jump shot out of 13 feet to save his life.

[RhymesayersDU]

Per NBA.com:

Andre Miller career 3 point average: .214

Yeah, he's just lighting that rim on fire. The Nuggets are retarded for making him play PG, what with him being the 5th in the NBA in assissts this year.. He should be a SG and just shoot the ball all day.

[Clockwork Orange]

I am seriously rolling on the floor laughing at Andre Miller being a "Shooter posed as a point guard."

I like Dre, but let's be honest, he's can't hit a jump shot out of 13 feet to save his life.

But, but Charles Barkley said it! It has to be true!

[WABronco]

I am seriously rolling on the floor laughing at Andre Miller being a "Shooter posed as a point guard."

I like Dre, but let's be honest, he's can't hit a jump shot out of 13 feet to save his life.

What is wrong with him? Has he always been that poor of a shooter?

[Clockwork Orange]

Per NBA.com:

Andre Miller career 3 point average: .214

Yeah, he's just lighting that rim on fire. The Nuggets are retarded for making him play PG, what with him being the 5th in the NBA in assissts this year.. He should be a SG and just shoot the ball all day.

Yes, the Nuggets just aren't properly utilizing his set shot.

Somehow he's averaging 8 assists per game despite not being a true point guard. Hilarious!

[RhymesayersDU]

What is wrong with him? Has he always been that poor of a shooter?
To be honest with you, I haven't followed him his whole career, just his stint with the Nugs, and he's never been a great shooter. But he's good around the rim, he hits the boards (for a PG), can post some guys up, he can definately pass... But a shooter he is not.

[RhymesayersDU]

Yes, the Nuggets just aren't properly utilizing his set shot.

Somehow he's averaging 8 assists per game despite not being a true point guard. Hilarious!
You forgot that he can't make his teamates better, and he doesn't find Carmelo and KMart for easy shots.

Apparently, an ally-oop is the most difficult of all NBA shots.

[epicSocialism4tw]

But, but Charles Barkley said it! It has to be true!

Nice.

I betcha Barkley still thinks that Van Exel is playing point in Denver.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Here's a link to an article about the Nuggs trade that you guys will probably like:

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/headline_b.asp?pr=

[Clockwork Orange]

Here's a link to an article about the Nuggs trade that you guys will probably like:

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/headline_b.asp?pr=

Nice to see that Vescey's reputation for being full of crap is widely known.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Nice to see that Vescey's reputation for being full of crap is widely known.

Yep. The author of that article holds nothing back. He flat out rips Vescey and his nutty counterpart Sam Smith. What a couple of goobers.

[Orange_Beard]

Guess not.

[Nuggets4]

ESPN Insider:

Is Steve-O Heading To NY?

Feb 15 - Two sources involved in the Steve Francis trade discussions told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan on Tuesday that New York is actively pursuing Francis. The Knicks believe Francis and Stephon Marbury can play together in the backcourt.

Chris Sheridan also reports that Denver remains in the hunt for Francis, but they are not the leading option as they were a few days ago.

A source close to the Magic revealed to the New York Daily News that Isiah Thomas contacted Orlando yesterday to inquire about Francis.

Magic Assistant GM Otis Smith spoke with Francis yesterday about the trade rumors, reports Florida Today. "I talked to Steve more about his basketball than his mindset and I'm sure he's uncomfortable right now," Smith told the newspaper. "He likes to be loved and I know that. When he hears some of the stuff out there I know he gets his head down. But I just wanted him to know that we still love him."

Smith also told Florida Today that he doesn't anticipate making any trades until after this weekend's NBA All-Star Game.

Francis and Marbury in the same backcourt? Good God, that could be the most unintentionally funny thing to happen to the league since Darko got playing time.

[epicSocialism4tw]

ESPN Insider:

Is Steve-O Heading To NY?

Feb 15 - Two sources involved in the Steve Francis trade discussions told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan on Tuesday that New York is actively pursuing Francis. The Knicks believe Francis and Stephon Marbury can play together in the backcourt.

Chris Sheridan also reports that Denver remains in the hunt for Francis, but they are not the leading option as they were a few days ago.

A source close to the Magic revealed to the New York Daily News that Isiah Thomas contacted Orlando yesterday to inquire about Francis.

Magic Assistant GM Otis Smith spoke with Francis yesterday about the trade rumors, reports Florida Today. "I talked to Steve more about his basketball than his mindset and I'm sure he's uncomfortable right now," Smith told the newspaper. "He likes to be loved and I know that. When he hears some of the stuff out there I know he gets his head down. But I just wanted him to know that we still love him."

Smith also told Florida Today that he doesn't anticipate making any trades until after this weekend's NBA All-Star Game.

Francis and Marbury in the same backcourt? Good God, that could be the most unintentionally funny thing to happen to the league since Darko got playing time.

It will be all one-on-one all the time. Will the Knicks have any assists?

Marbury and Francis are basically the same player mentally and skill-wise. What a bad idea.

[maven]

Francis and Marbury in the same backcourt? Good God, that could be the most unintentionally funny thing to happen to the league since Darko got playing time.

What did you expect from the worst GM to ever enter the league. How this guy has a job is beyond me.

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!