TO or Ricky?.....if you can only have one?

[Gcver2ver3]

Many reports are saying that we show interest in both players but most likely if we got TO we wouldn't get Ricky and/or vise versa...


I don't know if a thread/poll was started on this yet but if not....

Which one would you choose if you could only have one?

I'd take TO.......

[RhymesayersDU]

RB's are a dime a dozen. Great WR's only happen once.

[Gcver2ver3]

RB's are a dime a dozen. Great WR's only happen once.



that is kind of my angle on it also...

i'll take my chances with RB if we can get TO....he'll open up the run game to make even our current RB's look golden:afro:

[Clockwork Orange]

Ricky.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Do we want to get shot in the head of stabbed through the heart? Gee...let me think...

[24champ]

RB's are a dime a dozen. Great WR's only happen once.
yeah gonna go with the TO on this one.

[CBF1]

TO.... lets weigh the options. Ricky Williams good talent, TO best WR in the game?

[2KBack]

just to play devils advocate a bit. Keep in mind that Denver won their superbowls when they had a superstar at Running back...not WR.

[Pat Bowlen]

You guys realize I take these polls seriously, right?

[RMT]

just to play devils advocate a bit. Keep in mind that Denver won their superbowls when they had a superstar at Running back...not WR.

One player does not a team make ... the Broncos' WR corp was better in the SB years (Smith, McCaffrey, and Sharpe) ... now the Broncos' lack speed and depth at WR - not RB. Our needs have changed.

[Kaylore]

I'll take Mr. Williams.

[meangene]

I'll take Ricky. At least he's likeable. Plus, younger and cheaper. We can pick up a quality WR in free agency. I really think Ricky would stay here and do a good job for several years. TO maybe one before he starts to show his ass.

[Atlas]

BOTH

[broncohaven]

I would take Ricky first, but I'll take both like Atlas said. I think that Ricky is the less risky option, but TO is the best WR in the game. With Ricky you don't run the risk of fracturing the locker room, but you do run the risk of losing him (and whatever value you give up for him).

Money isn't much of a risk with either player becaus they've both earned the right to have serious behavioral clauses that will void in the event they revert to old ways.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

just to play devils advocate a bit. Keep in mind that Denver won their superbowls when they had a superstar at Running back...not WR.

Well, gee, when have we ever had a superstar WR in a SB?

You guys realize I take these polls seriously, right?
That's why we have them.

[Rock Chalk]

Well, gee, when have we ever had a superstar WR in a SB?


That's why we have them.
Rod Smith had a 1600 yard season one of those SB years.

That sounds like superstar status to me.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Rod Smith had a 1600 yard season one of those SB years.

That sounds like superstar status to me.

Sorry, but Rod isn't a superstar WR and never has been.
And he had 1600 yards in 2000.

[-Slap-]

Rod Smith had a 1600 yard season one of those SB years.

That sounds like superstar status to me.
Nope. Rod's two best seasons were 2000 and 2001. He wasted his prime on Brian Griese.

[-Slap-]

Sorry, but Rod isn't a superstar WR and never has been.
And he had 1600 yards in 2000.
Of course Rod isn't a superstar. ESPN never annointed him one.

[Rock Chalk]

Sorry, but Rod isn't a superstar WR and never has been.
And he had 1600 yards in 2000.
You know, I will listen to a lot of **** from you but this is ****ing blasphemous.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You know, I will listen to a lot of **** from you but this is ****ing blasphemous.
Well, I'd say it if it were true. Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith, Tory Holt, TO, those guys are superstar WRs.

[fontaine]

Well, I'd say it if it were true. Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith, Tory Holt, TO, those guys are superstar WRs.

That's very interesting.

I wonder what Andy Reid would have to say about that now.

If he somehow had the option of going back two years and the choice had been TO or Rod Smith, then I'm pretty sure which player he would have chosen.

Maybe Rod isn't a "superstar" in the espn definition. But ask 32 GMs and coaches around the league if they had a choice between taking TO for the past two years or Rod then you know what the answers would be.

[Ratboy]

Owens.

We can always find a runningback to run in this system.

[baja]

I think there is a good chance for both but I'd go with RW if I had to chose only one

[Elway 4 Life]

We will only get one of the two. I've seen it 3 times in different articles. I think TO would do wonders for our run game. I think bell would flourish because there wouldnt be 8 in the box. I vote TO. Ricky will be less expensive but I think TO would help us more.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That's very interesting.

I wonder what Andy Reid would have to say about that now.

If he somehow had the option of going back two years and the choice had been TO or Rod Smith, then I'm pretty sure which player he would have chosen.

Maybe Rod isn't a "superstar" in the espn definition. But ask 32 GMs and coaches around the league if they had a choice between taking TO for the past two years or Rod then you know what the answers would be.

:) Rod is and hasn't been a "superstar" WR under anyone's definition, just a fact. That's not taking anything away from what he's accomplished.

[Antilles]

Which one is a better DE?

Count me in the RW camp. As long as Mike is calling the shots, Denver is a running team. What we have lacked in the past few years, however, is a running back that can put games away in the 4th quarter. Remember back in 98 and 99 when Denver would run out the last 15 minutes of a game without giving the ball away? Ricky can be that back.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Which one is a better DE?

Count me in the RW camp. As long as Mike is calling the shots, Denver is a running team. What we have lacked in the past few years, however, is a running back that can put games away in the 4th quarter. Remember back in 98 and 99 when Denver would run out the last 15 minutes of a game without giving the ball away? Ricky can be that back.


I get this picture of RW in the 4 th qtr for some reason...





http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Drama/Drama/OneFlewBancini.jpg

"I'm tired. Whew. O Lord. Oh, I'm
awful tired"

[BroncoBen]

Which one is a better DE?
Count me in the RW camp. As long as Mike is calling the shots, Denver is a running team. What we have lacked in the past few years, however, is a running back that can put games away in the 4th quarter. Remember back in 98 and 99 when Denver would run out the last 15 minutes of a game without giving the ball away? Ricky can be that back.

Shannahan has stated more than once he prefers a single running back as opposed to running back by committee. The broncos are still looking for another Terrell Davis and Ricky Williams is the closest you are going to find.

Anderson is getting long in the tooth, and tired down the stretch, and Bell is just a 10-12 carry type of back. And Ron Dayne is unproven.

[Pat Bowlen]

I get this picture of RW in the 4 th qtr for some reason...
You're reaching pretty badly here.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You're reaching pretty badly here.

"I don't want to do it anymore," Williams told Le Batard. "That's it. I don't want to do this anymore. If people really care about me, that would be enough for them.''

--------------------------------------------------------
In an online interview with SI.com columnist Michael Silver, Williams stated that he would consider returning for the 2005 season ... for the Oakland Raiders.

"It would be great," he said. "I'd love it."

-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't think I'll ever be able to stay in one place for more than a year or two. It's not in my nature.

-----------------------------------------------------

I've let a lot of things go, and obviously football is one of them. I think the hardest thing to let go is your self-image. That's what I'm working on now.

----------------------------------------------------

Ayurveda deals with using your environment to put yourself in balance. I've realized, both on a psychological and physical level, that the things we do in football don't bring more harmony to your life. They just bring more disharmony.

--------------------------------------------------

"I didn't quit football because I failed a drug test, I failed a test because I was ready to quit football."

[-Slap-]

"I didn't quit football because I failed a drug test, I failed a test because I was ready to quite football."

This is what I've been trying to explain to you.

[2KBack]

"I don't want to do it anymore," Williams told Le Batard. "That's it. I don't want to do this anymore. If people really care about me, that would be enough for them.''

--------------------------------------------------------
In an online interview with SI.com columnist Michael Silver, Williams stated that he would consider returning for the 2005 season ... for the Oakland Raiders.

"It would be great," he said. "I'd love it."

-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't think I'll ever be able to stay in one place for more than a year or two. It's not in my nature.

-----------------------------------------------------

I've let a lot of things go, and obviously football is one of them. I think the hardest thing to let go is your self-image. That's what I'm working on now.

----------------------------------------------------

Ayurveda deals with using your environment to put yourself in balance. I've realized, both on a psychological and physical level, that the things we do in football don't bring more harmony to your life. They just bring more disharmony.

--------------------------------------------------

"I didn't quit football because I failed a drug test, I failed a test because I was ready to quite football."

Would you have been cool with him saying, "my team sucks and my coach is trying to kill me, Why would I wanna do that again?"

The guy quit, and everybody wanted a reason. Just to inform you a bit on Social Anxiety disorder, those of us that have it have major problems confronting others. There is no way in hell he would call out his coach or the scheme, so he spent every interview floundering for explanations on why he quit. Perhaps he could have been like Barry Sanders and retire msyteriously and never offer an explanation.

He didn't want to play, but that didn't work out. Now he like the iidea of playing for someone else, I don't see what the big problem is.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Would you have been cool with him saying, "my team sucks and my coach is trying to kill me, Why would I wanna do that again?"

The guy quit, and everybody wanted a reason. Just to inform you a bit on Social Anxiety disorder, those of us that have it have major problems confronting others. There is no way in hell he would call out his coach or the scheme, so he spent every interview floundering for explanations on why he quit. Perhaps he could have been like Barry Sanders and retire msyteriously and never offer an explanation.

He didn't want to play, but that didn't work out. Now he like the iidea of playing for someone else, I don't see what the big problem is.


I'm familiar with ASAD. I'm not riding him because of his disease. I'm pointing out the probable scenarios that will result in signing him.

[2KBack]

I'm familiar with ASAD. I'm not riding him because of his disease. I'm pointing out the probable scenarios that will result in signing him.

Okay, well I look at it this way. Ricky quit a job that he was very good at, becasue he wasn't happy. Then he was forced to comeback because of money, but he still did the job well.

TO basically was fired from his last job.

[Pat Bowlen]

Quotes quotes quotes
Instead of quotes, how about you list games in which you've seen Ricky give up in the fourth when his team needed him.

[ant1999e]

I think T.O. will be too expensive. We may not be able to afford other needs if we sign him.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Instead of quotes, how about you list games in which you've seen Ricky give up in the fourth when his team needed him.

How about games that he didn't play in at all because he gave up when his team needed him.

[2KBack]

How about games that he didn't play in at all because he gave up when his team needed him.

Dude, it's not like he went AWOL in the middle of a war. Lives were not at stake here. It is football, and it is a job. If the team isn't happy with Ricky he can be cut or traded at anytime without warning, but when Ricky isn't happy with the team an decides he doesn't want to play for them anymore he is judged differently. F that

[montrose]

Rather have T.O., he'd make a huge difference in the offense. Dayne would be as productive as Ricky if he started.

[Pat Bowlen]

How about games that he didn't play in at all because he gave up when his team needed him.
I was thinking more along the line of games in which he played and gave up during the 4th Qtr, like you insinuated he would.

[DBroncos4life]

Sorry, but Rod isn't a superstar WR and never has been.
And he had 1600 yards in 2000.
(Shaking my head)
Im sorry I even wasted time with you over the Williams thing.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

(Shaking my head)
Im sorry I even wasted time with you over the Williams thing.

Not me. I was enthralled exchanging viewpoints with you.

[BroncoInferno]

I'm familiar with ASAD. I'm not riding him because of his disease. I'm pointing out the probable scenarios that will result in signing him.

What's 'probable' about it? He's retired once. It's really the only incident in his playing career (college or pros) where you could possibly question him as a teammate. So, it is actually most probable that it won't happen again, if we are going to use his past experiences in the full context.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What's 'probable' about it? He's retired once. It's really the only incident in his playing career (college or pros) where you could possibly question him as a teammate. So, it is actually most probable that it won't happen again, if we are going to use his past experiences in the full context.
:) Right, he retired. Yeah, you're right, there's absolutely no downside to signing him.

I wonder what the odds are on him even making it to a training camp next year?

[clint7]

Both! Let's turn that Dove Valley locker room into a freakin' Mardi Gras!

"Turn this mother out!" "Turn this mother out!"

[BroncoInferno]

:) Right, he retired. Yeah, you're right, there's absolutely no downside to signing him.

Sure, there's a risk, but I think taking a fair and objective look at Ricky's entire career, it's a pretty minimal risk, particular when compared to the risk of taking on TO.

I wonder what the odds are on him even making it to a training camp next year?

About 99.9%, barring any kind of major injuries.

[DBroncos4life]

:) Right, he retired. Yeah, you're right, there's absolutely no downside to signing him.

I wonder what the odds are on him even making it to a training camp next year?
geeze I would hate for TO to come here and learn he cant feed his familyHilarious!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

geeze I would hate for TO to come here and learn he cant feed his familyHilarious!

What family?



About 99.9%, barring any kind of major injuries.

So you would be giving, what, 100 to 1 non-injury odds of him not quitting, missing a piss test, etc...?

[Pat Bowlen]

Wait, I haven't kept up on all the threads. Is Bronco_Beerslug actually in favor of TO yet against Ricky?

[Rascal]

How many games did Ricky quit in the fourth quarter slug? i thougth you always had links supporting your arguements. LOL

[ro_50]

I would take Ricky before TO.

[DBroncos4life]

What family?




So you would be giving, what, 100 to 1 non-injury odds of him not quitting, missing a piss test, etc...?


Thanks Old Dude

Just a little timeline, to help with the discussion (drawn from AP and yahoo sources):

1996 - Owens’ 10 starts for the San Francisco 49ers were the most for a rookie receiver since Gene Washington played in 14 in 1969.

1996 - In his first start, a game against the Cincinnati Bengals, Owens caught four passes for 94 yards, including 45-yard touchdown to tie the game late in fourth quarter.

1997 - Emerging as the team’s No. 1 receiver, Owens nearly doubled his rookie numbers with 60 receptions for 936 yards and eight touchdowns.

1998 - Recording more than 1,000 yards receiving, Owens once again raised his reception total (67), and exploded for 14 touchdown receptions.

2000 - During a contest in Dallas, Owens celebrated scoring a touchdown by running to midfield of Texas Stadium and posing on the star logo of the Cowboys. When he repeated his actions after a TD later in the game, he was blindsided by the Cowboys' George Teague, which resulted in a skirmish between the teams.

2000 – : In October, Owens accuses his 49ers teammates of quitting following a 34-16 loss to the Carolina Panthers. "I think the whole team just gave up, man,'' Owens said. He apologizes to his teammates the next day.

2000 - On December 17, Owens set an NFL record with 20 catches for 283 yards against the Chicago Bears, surpassing a 50-year-old mark held by Tom Fears.

2000 - Rebounding from a down 1999 season, Owens set a career high with 97 receptions and 1,451 yards. He also scored 13 touchdowns, and earned a trip to Hawaii for his first Pro Bowl.

2001 - After blowing a 19-point lead in Chicago and losing in overtime after Owens mishandled a pass that Bears free safety Mike Brown intercepted and returned for the game-winning score, the disgruntled receiver accused head coach Steve Mariucci of protecting good friend Dick Jauron, head coach of the Bears.

2001 - Owens earned All Pro honors for the first time and was selected to play in the Pro Bowl for the second time after recording 93 receptions for 1,412 yards and 16 touchdowns.

2002 -: Owens complains about his role in the offense following a 25-15 playoff loss to the Packers. "I want to be the go-to guy on this team,'' Owens says. "But the play calling doesn't always involve me. I get lost in the offense.''

2002 - : In May, Owens rankles team officials for risking injury when he plays his first game for the Adirondack Wildcats of the U.S. Basketball League.


2002: - In September, Owens criticizes Mariucci for having quarterback Jeff Garcia kneel down at the Washington 16 at the end of a 20-10 win over the Redskins rather than trying to score again. "We have no killer instinct, period,'' Owens says.

2002 - In an October contest on Monday Night Football in Seattle, Owens pulled a 'Sharpie' marker out of his sock after catching a TD pass. He then proceeded to autograph the ball and hand it to his financial adviser sitting in an end zone luxury suite rented by Shawn Springs, the cornerback he had just beaten on the scoring play.

2002 - After scoring a touchdown in a December contest with the Green Bay Packers, Owens celebrated with a pair of Pom-Poms borrowed from a 49ers cheerleader.

2002 - Establishing a career-high with 100 receptions, Owens racked up another 1,300 yards receiving and 13 touchdowns.

2003 -: Just before halftime of a 31-6 playoff loss to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Owens screams at the 49ers' sideline and slaps his head in disbelief when Mariucci elects to run out the clock rather than try to cut into a 28-6 halftime deficit.

2003: -In September, Owens throws a sideline tantrum directed at offensive coordinator Greg Knapp and is critical of new coach Dennis Erickson following a 13-12 loss to the Cleveland Browns. "It's my job to run routes and catch the ball,'' Owens says. "It's their job to know the personnel on the field. It's their job to know who the playmakers are and to design the plays.''

2003 – Later the same month, Owens storms off the field when Kevan Barlow was stuffed for a 1-yard loss on fourth-and-1 during a 35-7 loss to Minnesota. Owens throws his helmet on the sideline and after the game hints that quarterback Jeff Garcia should to be benched.

2003 - His numbers were down somewhat from the previous year, but very solid at 80 receptions for 1,102 yards and nine touchdowns, and enough to earn him his fourth-straight Pro Bowl appearance.

2003 - Following a season that included several sideline tirades by Owens, he and the 49ers decided to part ways.

2004 - Owens’ agent failed to meet a free agency deadline in March, making him ineligible to become a free agent. Because they retained his rights, the 49ers then traded him to the Baltimore Ravens, but Owens refused to report to his new team. He expressed his desire to play in Philadelphia, and filed a grievance, claiming he should be granted free agency. After a series of negotiations, a deal was worked out between the three teams which sent Owens to Philadelphia where he signed a seven-year, $49 million deal against the advice of the players’ union.

2004 - In an interview with Playboy magazine, Owens hinted that ex-teammate Jeff Garcia was gay, a claim he later recanted.

2004 - Breathing life into an anemic receiving corps, Owens helped spark the Eagles’ offense with 14 touchdown receptions and 1,200 yards receiving before his regular season ended due to injury with two games left to play. Meanwhile, there were three additional incidents. In a November contest with the Baltimore Ravens, after scoring a touchdown, Owens openly mocked Ray Lewis by performing the middle linebacker’s “trademark” celebration dance. A week later, cameras follow Owens as he yells at McNabb on the sideline during a 27-3 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. And a week after that, in a Monday Night contest, Owens appeared in a controversial skit to kick off the network’s presentation of the game which resulted in an FCC investigation.

2005 - Owens made a miraculous return from a broken leg suffered earlier in the season to record nine catches for 122 yards in Super Bowl XXXIX.

2005 - Owens hires agent Drew Rosenhaus in April and announces he is not happy with his contract and wants to renegotiate with the Eagles. He also tells CNBC that, despite making $7.5 million in 2004, he needs a new contract to “feed his family.”

2005 - In an interview with ESPN.com, Owens says he "wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl,'' a comment believed by many to be about McNabb's struggles during the end of the game.

2005 - After hinting that he might hold out of training camp, Owens shows up with a bad attitude, refusing to acknowledge the media or speak to his teammates. After a confrontation with head coach Andy Reid, he was suspended for one week. A media circus ensues in front of his house as he works out in his driveway, doing crunches and lifting weights for TV cameras and reporters.

2005 - Owens recorded his 100th touchdown reception in a contest against the San Diego Chargers on October 23rd. During an interview with ESPN's Graham Bensinger on November 3, Owens took shots at the Eagles franchise for not publicly recognizing his 100th touchdown catch. During the interview he stated the Eagles showed a "lack of class". He also suggested the Eagles would be better off with Packers QB Brett Favre instead of Donovan McNabb.

2005 - On November 4, Owens issued a half-hearted apology through the media, but failed to deliver comments regarding Donovan McNabb, which head coach Andy Reid insisted he include.

2005 - Owens was suspended November 5 by the Eagles for the club's contest against the Washington Redskins on November 6.

2005 - On November 7, Owens' suspension was stretched to four games, and head coach Andy Reid added that Owens would not play for the remainder of the season.

[DBroncos4life]

Thats a big family.

[BroncoInferno]

So you would be giving, what, 100 to 1 non-injury odds of him not quitting, missing a piss test, etc...?

You have one example in his entire career. Not much of a sample size. So, yes, I would give it long odds.

[Clockwork Orange]

Wait, I haven't kept up on all the threads. Is Bronco_Beerslug actually in favor of TO yet against Ricky?

Believe it or not, yes.

[Rascal]

But Slug always have facts to back up his arguments...LOL!!!

How many games did Ricky quit in the fourth quarter?

[ludo21]

TO!!!!!!!!!

Our OL will put a 1k rusher behind them no matter what. We need a dynamic WR playmaker. TO would bring us that.

[DBroncos4life]

I would bet money that Williams isn't going to quit any time soon, that of course means he doesn't suffer a career ending injury. I would also bet money that TO is unhappy at some point in time next year, and lets the media hear about it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Believe it or not, yes.
As are about 40% of the OM so far.

[DBroncos4life]

TO!!!!!!!!!

Our OL will put a 1k rusher behind them no matter what. We need a dynamic WR playmaker. TO would bring us that.
we won the super bowl with a guy that could lead the NFL in rushing, not just some 1K back.

[BroncoInferno]

One of the more comical things in life is when someone thinks they are winning a debate, when in fact they are having their ass handed to them by multiple people.


So, when was it again that Ricky Williams quit in the 4th quarter of a football game?

[Kaylore]

TO stayed on his team and it tore up them up.

Ricky didn't play for his team and it hurt them.

Which one would you want to play for your team?

[BroncoInferno]

As are about 40% of the OM so far.

Not many of those people, though, are rejecting RW for past issues and yet embracing TO inspite of his much more checkered past.

[ludo21]

we won the super bowl with a guy that could lead the NFL in rushing, not just some 1K back.


very true, a legit threat in the backfield wouldnt hurt at all. If Ricky is back to where he was before, then sure id love to have him.

Either guy would be ok with me, both are a risk, Ricky cost less, so me may go that direction in order to sign other guys.

[DBroncos4life]

TO stayed on his team and it tore up them up.

Ricky didn't play for his team and it hurt them.

Which one would you want to play for your team?
Miami couldn't replace Williams though, we could. Its not that hard for us to find RBs to work in our system. I don't think the team could over come what TO did to the Eagles, not many teams could.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

TO stayed on his team and it tore up them up.

Ricky didn't play for his team and it hurt them.

Which one would you want to play for your team?
They're both BIG risks. You have one guy who could just up and quit anytime or be thrown out of the league for substance abuse. You have another guy that thinks he's the best in the league and wants to be paid more than anyone else (and he thinks Favre is better than McNabb).

What's our biggest need on offense?

[Pat Bowlen]

So, when was it again that Ricky Williams quit in the 4th quarter of a football game?
He's been avoiding that one since the previous page.

I wish I was allowed to really talk about these things on here.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He's been avoiding that one since the previous page.

I wish I was allowed to really talk about these things on here.

It was a generalization of him quiting on the Dolphins because he was tired of football.

Instead of worrying about these two why haven't you gotten us a legitimate pass rusher yet?

[fdf]

"We will only get one of the two. I've seen it 3 times in different articles. I think TO would do wonders for our run game. I think bell would flourish because there wouldnt be 8 in the box. I vote TO. Ricky will be less expensive but I think TO would help us more."

I think your reason is good in the abstract. A kick-### receiver helps us more than a great runner.

But in reality, the season falls apart when TO calls his first press conference and whines about what a terrible quarterback Jake is and how unfair it is that Jake threw a pass to Putzier in the last game. Then he rags on the offensive line for dogging it and making it necessary for the great TO to throw an occasional block. At that point, we're back to where we started and down some because we have to fill a roster spot of the mid-season free agency market at one of our weakest positions plus, all the hard feelings and energy that goes into stuff like that, plus the cap hit.

I don't know why everyone expects TO to learn how to behave himself. He has been an ill-mannered jerk that has caused terrible problems on every team he's played on. There's no evidence at all that he wants to change or that he could if he wanted to. He's broken. The only person that can fix him is TO and TO thinks things are just fine the way they are.

I hope he's never a Bronco. I hope he's run out of football.

[DrFate]

TO stayed on his team and it tore up them up.

Ricky didn't play for his team and it hurt them.

Which one would you want to play for your team?

You are most wise.

[Elway 4 Life]

They're both BIG risks. You have one guy who could just up and quit anytime or be thrown out of the league for substance abuse. You have another guy that thinks he's the best in the league and wants to be paid more than anyone else (and he thinks Favre is better than McNabb).
What's our biggest need on offense?
I also think farve is better than mcnabb.

[DrFate]

Hmmm...

A dynamic all-pro type running back playing for a run-heavy system? Or a malcontent receiver who has bashed better quarterbacks than the one we have now...

Such a tough decision...

:spit:

[DBroncos4life]

Hmmm...

A dynamic all-pro type running back playing for a run-heavy system? Or a malcontent receiver who has bashed better quarterbacks than the one we have now...

Such a tough decision...

:spit:
ha, best point of all.

[-Slap-]

TO!!!!!!!!!

Our OL will put a 1k rusher behind them no matter what. We need a dynamic WR playmaker. TO would bring us that.
1K rushers are a dime a dozen. All 1000 yards means is you averaged 63 yards a game.

[Elway 4 Life]

Hmmm...

A dynamic all-pro type running back playing for a run-heavy system? Or a malcontent receiver who has bashed better quarterbacks than the one we have now...
Such a tough decision...

:spit:
Who?

[sippybrew]

Ricky all the way. We need a feature back and watch how far the running game goes. A feature back develops a rythem. IMHO the dual backs never do. Sure you send in a Tatum Bell now and then but give some back like Ricky the ball 30 times a game and we win.

TO is a whiney troublemaker, we should allow Rod to retain #1 WR status and draft hima promising student to tutor.

[Popps]

I'd say at this stage, you'd have to say Williams is a safer pick-up. It won't cost us much and it's almost a sure-thing he'd flourish in our offense.

Plus, here's the biggest thing to consider... he's done something that T.O. hasn't in a very long time. He shut up, and produced. He was a team player this year. Was it just because he needed the money? Maybe. Personally, I think he's got mental issues, just like T.O.. The guy WAS medicated, right? Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of people lead normal lives on medication.
But, it was common knowledge that he had an imbalance, right?

Here's the other thing to consider... you bring in Ricky, and you've got money left over to go after a WR in free agency. You bring in T.O., and you're going to have to pay him more.

[DrFate]

Who?

Jeff Garcia = 3 Pro Bowls, back to back 30 TD seasons
Donovan McNabb = 5 Pro Bowls, NFC offensive player of the year

[DBroncos4life]

I'd say at this stage, you'd have to say Williams is a safer pick-up. It won't cost us much and it's almost a sure-thing he'd flourish in our offense.

Plus, here's the biggest thing to consider... he's done something that T.O. hasn't in a very long time. He shut up, and produced. He was a team player this year. Was it just because he needed the money? Maybe. Personally, I think he's got mental issues, just like T.O.. The guy WAS medicated, right? Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of people lead normal lives on medication.
But, it was common knowledge that he had an imbalance, right?

Here's the other thing to consider... you bring in Ricky, and you've got money left over to go after a WR in free agency. You bring in T.O., and you're going to have to pay him more.
Damn right Owens has that family to feed. With Owens he brings that agent that everyone just loves too.

[Elway 4 Life]

Jeff Garcia = 3 Pro Bowls, back to back 30 TD seasons
Donovan McNabb = 5 Pro Bowls, NFC offensive player of the year
I'll give you mcnabb but no frickin way on garcia. He is a system QB and sucks ass.

[DrFate]

I'll give you mcnabb but no frickin way on garcia. He is a system QB and sucks ass.

:)

I agree that Garcia is a system guy and I agree that he sucks ass.

But the national media really liked Garcia when he was putting up MVP-type numbers in San Fran and he was considered a top 5 QB at the time.

And Owens still slammed him (calling him gay, as I remember)

[Elway 4 Life]

:)

I agree that Garcia is a system guy and I agree that he sucks ass.

But the national media really liked Garcia when he was putting up MVP-type numbers in San Fran and he was considered a top 5 QB at the time.

And Owens still slammed him (calling him gay, as I remember)
If jake got drafted by most any other team other than arizona then I think he would be portrayed in a much better light than now. Jake would have been as good if not much better had he been in san fran instead of garcia.

[DrFate]

If jake got drafted by most any other team other than arizona then I think he would be portrayed in a much better light than now.

That is probably true. I'm just saying that TO has bashed guys with 'better press' than Plummer. So I can only imagine what he'd say about Jake.

And Garcia had really good numbers (even if he was a system guy). Most people put him in the top 5 of NFL QBs (at the time).

If Owens were a couple of years older he could have bashed Steve Young - and he's in the Hall now. :D

[baja]

He's been avoiding that one since the previous page.

I wish I was allowed to really talk about these things on here.

And your not because?

[Elway 4 Life]

That is probably true. I'm just saying that TO has bashed guys with 'better press' than Plummer. So I can only imagine what he'd say about Jake.

And Garcia had really good numbers (even if he was a system guy). Most people put him in the top 5 of NFL QBs (at the time).

If Owens were a couple of years older he could have bashed Steve Young - and he's in the Hall now. :D
I both would do well in our system. I just think that TO demands so much from a defense. Our run game would open up so much more. Hell I could gain 1000 yards in the system if we had TO. I also believe that in our system ricky would be a 2000 yd back.

[Crushaholic]

If I HAD to choose one, it would be Ricky Williams. He showed last season that he can behave when given a second chance. TO has not shown that ability. In fact, the only time he "behaved" is when he was made to sit in the proverbial corner by the Eagles.

[DBroncos4life]

McNuggets said that they would be undefeated if they had Joe Jurevicious so I think he is a guy we should look at.

[The Big E]

That is probably true. I'm just saying that TO has bashed guys with 'better press' than Plummer. So I can only imagine what he'd say about Jake.

And Garcia had really good numbers (even if he was a system guy). Most people put him in the top 5 of NFL QBs (at the time).

If Owens were a couple of years older he could have bashed Steve Young - and he's in the Hall now. :D
What he says about Jake and how Jake compares to TO's prior QB's really is irrelevant to how Plummer will react. Why does everyone assume that Jake can't take it? I think Plummer's pretty thick-skinned and I don't see why he wouldn't get back in TO's face.

The Philly lockerroom was pretty divided, partly because there was probably some jealousy of Donovan, who is the highly-paid face of the team, and a media favorite. I think the team here would have Jake's back because he is more one of the guys, and isn't so much the focus of the team.

To the question at hand, I don't think Ricky is in the same problem category as TO. He hasn't been known as a bad teammate. He was truthful and realized his heart wasn't in it and left before training camp. I don't see that as such a horrible thing. It's better than going into camp half-hearted.

Now that he took some time off and has built himself back up again, I think he's ready to kick some ass for the next few years. I'd love to see him here. I'm still on the fence with TO, although if we look at it as a one or two year gig, max, it doesn't seem like such a reach.

[Denver Crush]

I would take RW as well. Not only is he a fellow toker, but he has more upside IMO. Younger and less milage.

[FantomForce]

Ricky while it is obvious any RB fits into our system wouln't be great to have a guy that has the potential to be the next TD, that's right TD would be a sure hall o' famer if not for his injury and Ricky is that same type of back a brusier with the light feet

[Denver Crush]

Dude, it's not like he went AWOL in the middle of a war. Lives were not at stake here. It is football, and it is a job. If the team isn't happy with Ricky he can be cut or traded at anytime without warning, but when Ricky isn't happy with the team an decides he doesn't want to play for them anymore he is judged differently. F that

amen brother!

[Elway 4 Life]

What he says about Jake and how Jake compares to TO's prior QB's really is irrelevant to how Plummer will react. Why does everyone assume that Jake can't take it? I think Plummer's pretty thick-skinned and I don't see why he wouldn't get back in TO's face.

The Philly lockerroom was pretty divided, partly because there was probably some jealousy of Donovan, who is the highly-paid face of the team, and a media favorite. I think the team here would have Jake's back because he is more one of the guys, and isn't so much the focus of the team.

To the question at hand, I don't think Ricky is in the same problem category as TO. He hasn't been known as a bad teammate. He was truthful and realized his heart wasn't in it and left before training camp. I don't see that as such a horrible thing. It's better than going into camp half-hearted.

Now that he took some time off and has built himself back up again, I think he's ready to kick some ass for the next few years. I'd love to see him here. I'm still on the fence with TO, although if we look at it as a one or two year gig, max, it doesn't seem like such a reach.
Great post E. I think you hit it on the head. Plummer has skin as thick as a rhino and he is the leader of his team unlike mcnabb.

[Rock Chalk]

Wait, I haven't kept up on all the threads. Is Bronco_Beerslug actually in favor of TO yet against Ricky?
:shrug:

He's a union worker. They just follow the group and pretend to fit in.

[alkemical]

i'd rather have ricky, i know he can play 'mile high' ball

[Rock Chalk]

i'd rather have ricky, i know he can play 'mile high' ball
Aww Josh, its just cause you're a smoker ;D

[Rock Chalk]

Well, I'd say it if it were true. Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith, Tory Holt, TO, those guys are superstar WRs.
Of those guys you mentioned, only Marvin Harrison and TO have better numbers than Rod over the last 5 years.

In fact, Rod, TO and Moss are the top three receivers of this millenium.

So, whats this **** about Rod not being a superstar?

Nevermind the fact that Rod has 1 more SB ring than all those wide receivers you mentioned...combined.

[PatsWin2002]

If you guys get T.O. you'll need to put the other end of the horse on his helmet. :)

[Rock Chalk]

If you guys get T.O. you'll need to put the other end of the horse on his helmet. :)
Damn I wish I would have come up with that.

[Popps]

What he says about Jake and how Jake compares to TO's prior QB's really is irrelevant to how Plummer will react. Why does everyone assume that Jake can't take it? I think Plummer's pretty thick-skinned and I don't see why he wouldn't get back in TO's face. '

While I'm not really in favor of bringing him in... I agree, totally. I made this point earlier today. Jake is rarely given credit for being the team guy that he is. Most QBs (PayTon, etc.) would have bitched up a storm after being mauled all day like Jake was against Pitt. He couldn't even finish his drop-back without being sacked and when he did, there was no one open. (Of course, we refused to run the ball, but that's another story.)

Jake could handle T.O.. He'd laugh him off if he started up with his bull****... and more likely, the team would jump to Jake's defense long before it got to that.

Plus, we're not starting to hear that a lot of the players in Philly were supporting Owens during that whole ordeal. Who knows.

It probably sounds like I'm making an argument for bringing him in. I'm not. I think we have other priorities. I think Shanahan is in some kind of post-death, denial stage, again. Hopefully he'll wake up, and realize that this team lost (again) in the playoffs because our defense came up small.

[nooner]

Ricky. He lost alot of weight last year (maybe a little too much) which I think helped his quickness when he needed to run outside the tackles. With Ricky as the main back we will be set for a few years the way our system runs the ball. As much as we go through RBs Dayne will make a very solid back up with Bell getting 10-12 carries a game. I like Anderson and he has served us well over his career but he isnt the game breaker we need.

TO would greatly help our passing game (and we do need help there) but he is a cancer and would hurt us more than help over the season.

Why do our guys think that because we have a bunch of veterans and a good coach we can keep TO in line? The Eagles had a bunch of solid veterans and a good coach and they couldnt do it.

[BroncoSoja]

While we need help at WR more then RB I pick Ricky because I think Owens would try to kill Plummer after about the 30th bad throw. Maybe if we had a decent QB that doesnt choke in big games I would say Owens.

[DrFate]

What he says about Jake and how Jake compares to TO's prior QB's really is irrelevant to how Plummer will react. Why does everyone assume that Jake can't take it? I think Plummer's pretty thick-skinned and I don't see why he wouldn't get back in TO's face.

The Philly lockerroom was pretty divided, partly because there was probably some jealousy of Donovan, who is the highly-paid face of the team, and a media favorite. I think the team here would have Jake's back because he is more one of the guys, and isn't so much the focus of the team.

To the question at hand, I don't think Ricky is in the same problem category as TO. He hasn't been known as a bad teammate. He was truthful and realized his heart wasn't in it and left before training camp. I don't see that as such a horrible thing. It's better than going into camp half-hearted.

Now that he took some time off and has built himself back up again, I think he's ready to kick some ass for the next few years. I'd love to see him here. I'm still on the fence with TO, although if we look at it as a one or two year gig, max, it doesn't seem like such a reach.

I don't have any doubt that Jake would respond differently to a TO rant than either Garcia or McNabb. But the first time he holds a press conference to slam Plummer you have a major distraction. And I just don't think we need that. Don't you guys remember just this past off-season how many Maners wanted the Broncos to bring in Garcia to 'compete' with Plummer? Or after the Steelers game you had that same old 'cut Plummer' crowd starting threads?

Even though he had a fine year Plummer still doesn't have the kind of support that a lot of NFL quarterbacks do (from the local media or from the fans). If TO were on the roster and Plummer had a bad game - it is a recipe for disaster. Williams has never gone out of his way to slam a teammate.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Of those guys you mentioned, only Marvin Harrison and TO have better numbers than Rod over the last 5 years.

In fact, Rod, TO and Moss are the top three receivers of this millenium.

So, whats this **** about Rod not being a superstar?

Nevermind the fact that Rod has 1 more SB ring than all those wide receivers you mentioned...combined.

No, Rod doesn't have better numbers than Holt over the last 5 years. Steve Smith has only played 3 years and now is considered the top WR in the league by many.

But your head is always somewhat clouded on these stat issues for some reason, why is that?

:shrug:
He's a union worker. They just follow the group and pretend to fit in.

ROFL!

I trade securities but maybe you think daytraders have a union? (how do you get so offtrack during the day, every day http://www.techzonez.com/forums/images/smilies/rasta.gif)

[FantomForce]

Damn I wish I would have come up with that.Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

[The Big E]

I don't have any doubt that Jake would respond differently to a TO rant than either Garcia or McNabb. But the first time he holds a press conference to slam Plummer you have a major distraction. And I just don't think we need that. Don't you guys remember just this past off-season how many Maners wanted the Broncos to bring in Garcia to 'compete' with Plummer? Or after the Steelers game you had that same old 'cut Plummer' crowd starting threads?

Even though he had a fine year Plummer still doesn't have the kind of support that a lot of NFL quarterbacks do (from the local media or from the fans). If TO were on the roster and Plummer had a bad game - it is a recipe for disaster. Williams has never gone out of his way to slam a teammate.
I wasn't supporting TO and I agree with the gist of what you're saying. It's just a matter of time before TO would start with this BS and it will be a major distraction.

My main point was that based on personality, experience taking criticism, and locker room support, Jake is as well-prepared to deal with it as anyone. That being said, I have serious doubts that any person or team can ultimately deal very effectively with him.

TO's shelf life will likely be no more than 1-2 years with any one team. That team will get one hell of a year out of the guy, and then it'll be time to hold on for dear life.

[Rock Chalk]

No, Rod doesn't have better numbers than Holt over the last 5 years. Steve Smith has only played 3 years and now is considered the top WR in the league by many.

But your head is always somewhat clouded on these stat issues for some reason, why is that?



ROFL!

I trade securities but maybe you think daytraders have a union? (how do you get so offtrack during the day, every day http://www.techzonez.com/forums/images/smilies/rasta.gif)
Playing in 1 more year than TO, and keep in mind the first two years Rod was in the league he didn't play much and TO didnt play much last year so, that gives the exact same amount of productive years between Rod and TO.

TO has 9972 yards minus last years numbers.

Rod, minus his first two years where he got a combined two starts, has 10488 yards.

Now, I did it this way to make it fair to TO. Rod has 10877 yards since 1995. Since becoming a starter, only had one sub-1000 yard season and that was because we sucked as a team that year. Since becoming a starter TO has had TWO sub 1000 yard seasons. (1997 and 1999).

You were right about Holt, he has some huge numbers. His numbers are so good in fact I think he will quietly fall into the 2nd all time receivers list. Since cracking the 1000 yard barrier, Holt hasn't had a season with less than 1300 yards. Granted, Holt plays on Turf and played in one of the most explosive offenses ever put on a field, but he still is a baller.

Harrison too has about 2K more yards in an offense designed for the pass.

Steve Smith has played exactly one full season and his best season was not as good as Rod Smith's best season.

I think my whole point was you ****ing twit, was that Rod Smith IS a superstar. If you are gonna say those receivers above are, well Rod has to be too. Better than Owens. Id say better than Holt and Harrison too if Rod had played in their systems his whole career.

You said Rod was not a superstar. I said you were an idiot for saying Rod was not a superstar. I know for a fact I am right that you are an idiot and that Rod is a superstar. So, sit down, shut the **** up.

Oh, and "daytrader' is not a job, its a hobby. Just call it like it is, you are unemployed.

[OrangeShadow]

Owens hands down

[rbackfactory80]

TO.... lets weigh the options. Ricky Williams good talent, TO best WR in the game?


See it how you want but Williams led the league in attempts for a couple years in a row and had back to back 1900 and 1400 yard seasons without even a resemblence of a passing game. He had 4 back to back thousand plus yard seasons. Last year he had 750 yards and averaged 4.4 yards a carry with less then half the carries of his 1900, and 1400 yard seasons. Guy can play if he can be trusted, and Shanhan and him know each other well. He quit because he was the Dolphins.

[rbackfactory80]

How can people not see the T.O. trend, and what happens to the teams he plays for.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

How can people not see the T.O. trend, and what happens to the teams he plays for.

Trend? That was one team. Anyone who thinks he ruined the 49ers is conveniently overlooking how bad their cap problems were.

[rbackfactory80]

Trend? That was one team. Anyone who thinks he ruined the 49ers is conveniently overlooking how bad their cap problems were.


I am no capologist but I know what I did see. T.O. on the sidelines screaming in peoples faces, accusing his QB of being gay. This team might of had cap problems but they went from a deep playoff team one year, to a below 500 team the next and kept the majority of the roster intact. Evertime I watched that team play that year T.O. would drop 1 key pass a game.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

They did not keep the majority of their roster intact the first time they had to purge. There were serious questions about whether the 49ers could even field a full 53-man roster they were so up against it.

[Elway 4 Life]

Trend? That was one team. Anyone who thinks he ruined the 49ers is conveniently overlooking how bad their cap problems were.
for sure, they shipped half of there team away because of cap issues. The 49er organization is to blame for the demise of the team not TO.

[-Slap-]

You were right about Holt, he has some huge numbers. His numbers are so good in fact I think he will quietly fall into the 2nd all time receivers list. Since cracking the 1000 yard barrier, Holt hasn't had a season with less than 1300 yards. Granted, Holt plays on Turf and played in one of the most explosive offenses ever put on a field, but he still is a baller.
I agree. I think Holt will beat out Harrison for second place on the all time receivers lists. Honestly, if I could add any player in the NFL to the Broncos roster, I would probably choose Torry Holt.

[Gcver2ver3]

I think Owens would try to kill Plummer after about the 30th bad throw. Maybe if we had a decent QB that doesnt choke in big games I would say Owens.


I don't get the Plummer bashing....watching the defense get destroyed and not having the weapons on offense to come back from it isn't "choking" to me...

Besides...Garcia after TO = garbage....Garcia with TO = 3 Pro Bowls

McNabb before TO = garbage offense....McNabb with TO = superior offense

McNabb after TO = garbage offense again

Plummer will be allowed to open things up more with TO which would certainly increase on his 7 int's but would further increase the offensive production like maybe never before....

Plummer with TO = Pro Bowl....(and maybe SB champ)

I vote for TO

[phisig150]

My thinking is I rather have Ricky for three to four years than a one year rental of TO. Do me it depends on who we could get to commit longer and which one will cost us the lower draft pick. All things being equal I'd take TO.

[2KBack]

I don't get the Plummer bashing....watching the defense get destroyed and not having the weapons on offense to come back from it isn't "choking" to me...

It's only Soja who can't make a post without QB bashing, equalling the first guy ever on my ignore list.

[DrFate]

Trend? That was one team. Anyone who thinks he ruined the 49ers is conveniently overlooking how bad their cap problems were.

And anyone forgetting Owen's bashing of Garcia has convienent amnesia.

[broncohaven]

The comments by Hugh Douglas regarding Mcnabb Were interesting and got me thinking. He said that Donovan isn't a leader at all. When Young and Rice were running things in SF TO wasn't disruptive. It wasn't until Garcia took over and Rice left that TO got out of hand.

Garcia could hardly be considered a leader, so TO was the only leader there. Who's a leader in Philly? TO. In Denver we have Rod, Al, Lynch, Nalen, Burns, and Shanahan who are all leaders that command more respect than anyone on San Fran's or Philly's roster.

I'm not saying that guarantees that TO would be a model citizen in Denver, but it's at least interesting to consider.

[-Slap-]

The comments by Hugh Douglas regarding Mcnabb Were interesting and got me thinking. He said that Donovan isn't a leader at all. When Young and Rice were running things in SF TO wasn't disruptive. It wasn't until Garcia took over and Rice left that TO got out of hand.

Garcia could hardly be considered a leader, so TO was the only leader there. Who's a leader in Philly? TO. In Denver we have Rod, Al, Lynch, Nalen, Burns, and Shanahan who are all leaders that command more respect than anyone on San Fran's or Philly's roster.

I'm not saying that guarantees that TO would be a model citizen in Denver, but it's at least interesting to consider.
TO is a leader, just like Dale Carter was a leader. He led Darrius Johnson right out of the NFL.

[ludo21]

And anyone forgetting Owen's bashing of Garcia has convienent amnesia.


that was after he was off the team tho. IIf he gets on our team, i can care less if he wants to call Donovon gay.

[RMT]

The comments by Hugh Douglas regarding Mcnabb Were interesting and got me thinking. He said that Donovan isn't a leader at all. When Young and Rice were running things in SF TO wasn't disruptive. It wasn't until Garcia took over and Rice left that TO got out of hand.

Garcia could hardly be considered a leader, so TO was the only leader there. Who's a leader in Philly? TO. In Denver we have Rod, Al, Lynch, Nalen, Burns, and Shanahan who are all leaders that command more respect than anyone on San Fran's or Philly's roster.

I'm not saying that guarantees that TO would be a model citizen in Denver, but it's at least interesting to consider.

That's why some of the Broncos' vets are open to the idea of bringing in TO. We have a veteran-laden group. Plus, in Denver TO would get less (not a lot less, but less nonetheless) media coverage. The Broncos are one of the most disrespected franchises in the NFL in comparison to their continued success.

[Pendejo]

TO is a leader, just like Dale Carter was a leader. He led Darrius Johnson right out of the NFL.

That insight is just plain sick. Good job. Darrius *snort* had a lot of upside.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

And anyone forgetting Owen's bashing of Garcia has convienent amnesia.

Hmmm. . . let's think. What is worse for a team, completely gutting it because of how poorly the cap was managed, or the WR calling the QB gay?

[SoCalBronco]

Neither.

[DrFate]

Hmmm. . . let's think. What is worse for a team, completely gutting it because of how poorly the cap was managed, or the WR calling the QB gay?

This isn't an opinion poll on what caused the downfall of the 49ers. Owens is bad for his team. His current team, his former team, the team he never played for (Ravens).

He forced the first trade (49ers -> Ravens), he forced the 2nd trade (Ravens -> Eagles), and he is forcing the Eagles to make a move now. Why anybody thinks he would be an asset to this Broncos team is beyond me.

[watermock]

I wish I were a fly on the wall with Shanahan, T.O. and the Shark having tea last week. You have to admire Shanahan going to his team and asking their opinion....I think Rod and Big Al hold alot of sway on the team. The team will follow their lead because they have led by example and aren't flavor clowns.

Anyway, evidently the team says go, so I'll roll with it. I wouldn't trade for him unless a tenative deal is worked out. One thing that isn't mentioned much (except by me) is how evil the Shark is. As soon as Owens hired him, the fireworks on contract started. This is because the Shark makes zero till Owens gets a new deal. The first thing T.O. should do is fire that leech. It's certainly a detriment to getting a deal done. He's allready cost him 25 million.

I'm not doling out 7.5 million in a roster bonus, philly isn't, noone but maybe Miami would but I don't know their cap numbers. I don't think anyone is going to bite till he's released. Man did he pull a boner!

And WTF was McNabb babbling about?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno
What's 'probable' about it? He's retired once. It's really the only incident in his playing career (college or pros) where you could possibly question him as a teammate. So, it is actually most probable that it won't happen again, if we are going to use his past experiences in the full context.

:) Right, he retired. Yeah, you're right, there's absolutely no downside to signing him.

I wonder what the odds are on him even making it to a training camp next year?

Wait, I haven't kept up on all the threads. Is Bronco_Beerslug actually in favor of TO yet against Ricky?

Uh, yeah I am.

[RMT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno
What's 'probable' about it? He's retired once. It's really the only incident in his playing career (college or pros) where you could possibly question him as a teammate. So, it is actually most probable that it won't happen again, if we are going to use his past experiences in the full context.





Uh, yeah I am.

Those 48 votes for Ricky Williams are like hanging chads in Florida ... they don't count.

[watermock]

I explained the morons that Williams was one strike away from a year suspention and noone even responded...

The only reason he came back was he was "bankrupt" and yet was able to travel the world...he wanted to save his signing bonus....

If you want to sign him...pick him up off the waiver wire in 07.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

TO stayed on his team and it tore up them up.
Ricky didn't play for his team and it hurt them.
Which one would you want to play for your team?
Guess.
Hmmm...
A dynamic all-pro type running back playing for a run-heavy system? Or a malcontent receiver who has bashed better quarterbacks than the one we have now...
Such a tough decision...
:spit:
Really?

I would bet money that Williams isn't going to quit any time soon.
How much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug
So you would be giving, what, 100 to 1 non-injury odds of him not quitting, missing a piss test, etc..
You have one example in his entire career. Not much of a sample size. So, yes, I would give it long odds.

[DBroncos4life]

Guess.

Really?


How much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug
So you would be giving, what, 100 to 1 non-injury odds of him not quitting, missing a piss test, etc..
god you are a ****ing fag. And he didn't quit so yes I will still bet money. You better hope this story is true queer.

[Rock Chalk]

god you are a ****ing fag. And he didn't quit so yes I will still bet money. You better hope this story is true queer.
He will gloat.

That's what he does. He's that guy. The gloating prick no one likes. Just ignore him when he starts that ****.

[DBroncos4life]

He will gloat.

That's what he does. He's that guy. The gloating prick no one likes. Just ignore him when he starts that ****.
Ive never seen anything like it here. Thank god this happened now otherwise he might have died looking for these threads.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

god you are a ****ing fag. And he didn't quit so yes I will still bet money. You better hope this story is true queer.
ROFL!
I don't care if it's true or not Einstein but you wouldn't understand that.

And yeah he did quit, you just aren't sharp enough to pick up on it.

Ive never seen anything like it here. Thank god this happened now otherwise he might have died looking for these threads.
Wasn't hard to find your posts, just typed "when I lose it I call people queers and fags because that's the limit of my intelligence".

[ludo21]

even steven at 48 votes a piece now.

[RMT]

even steven at 48 votes a piece now.

yep, and the 48 for RW are like voting for a 3rd party US President candidate.

[DBroncos4life]

yep, and the 48 for RW are like voting for a 3rd party US President candidate.
yeah because this story came out way before we voted :stupid:

[RMT]

yeah because this story came out way before we voted :stupid:

doesn't matter because with RW it was inevitable.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

doesn't matter because with RW it was inevitable.

I thought so..... Is this poll still open :rofl:

[DBroncos4life]

doesn't matter because with RW it was inevitable.
well then why don't you use your powers to go predict the powerball numbers, I mean its over 300 mill isn't it? Or do your powers only work on this type of things? I guess this means when TO blows up we get to comeback and act gay and say I told you so...

[RMT]

I thought so..... Is this poll still open :rofl:

I'm waiting for someone to vote for RW again just to be stubborn.

[RMT]

well then why don't you use your powers to go predict the powerball numbers, I mean its over 300 mill isn't it? Or do your powers only work on this type of things? I guess this means when TO blows up we get to comeback and act gay and say I told you so...

why the angst? There's no reason to be defensive - or is there?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm waiting for someone to vote for RW again just to be stubborn.
DBroncos4life gave it a go but he already voted for Walkabout.