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View Full Version : Uh oh, Terrel Owens in Denver...all thing TO merged


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DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 07:29 PM
When Holt's career is over, he'll be regarded as the second best WR ever. His numbers will back it up.
Holt is the man, no doubt about that. I can't think of a WR I would rather have then him in the NFL today.

Garcia Bronco
01-31-2006, 07:31 PM
All you guys are talking about is 75 pages media/Espin created bull****. Owens didn't cause that team to lose or get beat....4 years of being on top...a divison that got better and tougher....then their all-pro QB went down. Please....all that other **** is Espin bull****...there are no distractions...only teams that fall short.

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 07:32 PM
All you guys are talking about is 75 pages media/Espin created bull****. Owens didn't cause that team to lose or get beat....4 years of being on top...a divison that got better and tougher....then their all-pro QB went down. Please....all that other **** is Espin bull****...there are no distractions...only teams that fall short.
I believe in Bigfoot too.

Garcia Bronco
01-31-2006, 07:33 PM
I believe in Bigfoot too.


What do you mean?

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 07:37 PM
What do you mean?
That the media creates monsters.

12th man
01-31-2006, 07:47 PM
Let's all agree on this if TO comes to Denver. He is a dominant player and he would make our offense even more dangerous, if not the most dangerous, team in the league. He is a trouble maker, but if one team can help him, it's us. like many of you said, theres a lot of class and leadership on our team. Much more than SanFran had after Young and Rice left. Also, Shanny dosn't BS. If he sees him causing trouble, his ass is gone, just like when portis was talking sh1t, and also he got rid of big mouth sharpe. The point is I started out thinking that TO coming here was a bad idea, but Im slowly beginning to change my mind, because of this point:TO is the most selfish player in the History of the game. With that said, I think he wants to get in the hall of fame, with him being selfish and alll. Now he has the stats, but he has no Team player attitude or what ever you want to call it. He also has no ring. All of a sudden he has a chance to redeem himself by being a team player, and he will also get his ring if he comes to Denver. Now people will be saying how TO changed his way,but he knows he faked his attituded the hole way through, and now he has it all to get to the hall of fame. So, if he comes to Denver he may be nice to the players, and if we get him, our Offense will be dominant that no one can beat. We win the super bowl and he goes to the hall and everyone is happy. Theres also the other thing that TO can change and we can change him. How would you like to be the team to change TO the most selfish player? Thats some good bragging rights to smear in the faces of the raider and chef fans after we win the SB.

Garcia Bronco
01-31-2006, 07:56 PM
That the media creates monsters.


They really do...don't get me wrong...they guy ain't the greatest to deal with...but I feel confident it's not as bad as everybody has been led to believe.

Garcia Bronco
01-31-2006, 07:58 PM
Let's all agree on this if TO comes to Denver. He is a dominant player and he would make our offense even more dangerous, if not the most dangerous, team in the league. He is a trouble maker, but if one team can help him, it's us. like many of you said, theres a lot of class and leadership on our team. Much more than SanFran had after Young and Rice left. Also, Shanny dosn't BS. If he sees him causing trouble, his ass is gone, just like when portis was talking sh1t, and also he got rid of big mouth sharpe. The point is I started out thinking that TO coming here was a bad idea, but Im slowly beginning to change my mind, because of this point:TO is the most selfish player in the History of the game. With that said, I think he wants to get in the hall of fame, with him being selfish and alll. Now he has the stats, but he has no Team player attitude or what ever you want to call it. He also has no ring. All of a sudden he has a chance to redeem himself by being a team player, and he will also get his ring if he comes to Denver. Now people will be saying how TO changed his way,but he knows he faked his attituded the hole way through, and now he has it all to get to the hall of fame. So, if he comes to Denver he may be nice to the players, and if we get him, our Offense will be dominant that no one can beat. We win the super bowl and he goes to the hall and everyone is happy. Theres also the other thing that TO can change and we can change him. How would you like to be the team to change TO the most selfish player? Thats some good bragging rights to smear in the faces of the raider and chef fans after we win the SB.


Shanahan had no problem **** canning Gardners ass.

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 08:02 PM
They really do...don't get me wrong...they guy ain't the greatest to deal with...but I feel confident it's not as bad as everybody has been led to believe.
While I will agree with you on some of your points, I still have to keep to my feelings that just becuase there is a gun infront of me, doesn't mean I need to kill people. Owens maybe better off saying, "you know what everytime I talk to the media I end up looking like a ass, and shortly after that I get fired". Maybe I shouldn't do that anymore. His mind can't understand simple crap like that.

jbiel
01-31-2006, 08:03 PM
Rodman was more of an off the court distraction. He dressed like a member of the Revolution, lol, but he was a professional on the court.


Is kicking a camera man being professional on the court?

2KBack
01-31-2006, 08:04 PM
Is kicking a camera man being professional on the court?

he was out of bounds at the time

jbiel
01-31-2006, 08:05 PM
he was out of bounds at the time


Good call, but technically he was still on the court. Just not in play.

JCMElway
01-31-2006, 08:11 PM
Hey,

Does anybody know what the yes/no poll for T.O. was at before they merged the thread?

Just curious.

baja
01-31-2006, 08:14 PM
I seriously cannot believe that some of you folks would actually welcome TO to your team. Yes, he's a great talent but did you not watch what happened in Philly? You guys have pretty good chemistry right now. Why roll a grenade into that?

What Shanahan does is sit the player in question down and say to him,"Look TO this is the way we do things here and this is what I expect of you if you do these things you play if you don't you're gone". Then he structures a contract that allows him to to just what he promised. If TO comes here it will be under these terms just like it was with the Browncos and before you say but they were not the locker room cancer that TO is the bottom line remains the same, screw up and you are gone.

I guarantee you if Shanahan signs TO he will be able to cut him without putting the team in cap hell cause he's been there and done that and learned from the experience.

crazyhorse
01-31-2006, 08:20 PM
So....if TO comes to Denver will you guys be the next Raiders?

Can he do for the Donks what Moss did for the Raiders???

baja
01-31-2006, 08:23 PM
So....if TO comes to Denver will you guys be the next Raiders?

Can he do for the Donks what Moss did for the Raiders???

Don't you have enough problems of your own. Whata think 5 wins next season for ya?

jbiel
01-31-2006, 08:26 PM
So....if TO comes to Denver will you guys be the next Raiders?

Can he do for the Donks what Moss did for the Raiders???


How many big free agents do the chiefs have to pick up this year to make the playoffs? Or are you going to say Herm is why you're gonna win the whole thing in 2006?

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 08:26 PM
So....if TO comes to Denver will you guys be the next Raiders?

Can he do for the Donks what Moss did for the Raiders???
Denver is a very well ran team, with a coach that we all know will be here next year unlike Oakland's try a coach for a year strategy.

Gcver2ver3
01-31-2006, 08:36 PM
Yeah, but that's more the exception than the rule, don't you think? Plus, Rodman was more of an off the court distraction. He dressed like a member of the Revolution, lol, but he was a professional on the court. Well, mostly. He never yelled at his coaches during a game or threw any of his teammates under the bus that I can recall. Most importantly, that team had Michael Jordan, so if Rodman acted a fool on the court, MJ would rip out Rodman's spine like that scene in Predator.


wow....don't agree there....he kicked camera man in the nuts...he started many fights....he lead the league in technicals...he lead the league in suspensions...

with that said...i still loved him with the bulls...reason being is because the bulls were winning (i'm a bulls fan btw)

12th man
01-31-2006, 08:39 PM
So....if TO comes to Denver will you guys be the next Raiders?

Can he do for the Donks what Moss did for the Raiders???
The only thing I see as being the Raiders is us signing troubled players. But what team dosnt have those kind? At least we don't have convicts. and at least we find way to win ulike the raiders who find ways to lose. Only the raider would get Moss and lamont jordan and be sh1tty. Your team is fvckn pathatic.

Gcver2ver3
01-31-2006, 08:40 PM
I dont ever remember Dennis causing the kind of chaos that TO has. was Rodman a sideshow circus? oh yea but he was hardly the kind of issue that TO has become. as far as having 3 rings, that much is true but Dennis was a small part of that because of a guy named MJ. by the way, how many rings does TO have with SF or Philly?



TO is the worse teammate i've ever seen...i stand behind that..i'm not changing my opinion on that just because he may play for us...so yeah you're right about his attitude...

but rodman is the best example of a bad guy helping turn a contender into a champion...so i wanna use that to encourage me....

i can't take credit for the rodman analogy...this was brought up earier by someone else...i like the analogy

ludo21
01-31-2006, 08:42 PM
TO is the worse teammate i've ever seen...i stand behind that..i'm not changing my opinion on that just because he may play for us...so yeah you're right about his attitude...

but rodman is the best example of a bad guy helping turn a contender into a champion...so i wanna use that to encourage me....

i can't take credit for the rodman analogy...this was brought up earier by someone else...i like the analogy


Yep :yep:

TO imo would be a good fit here, cant wait to see how this offeason goes!

Thread may make it 1k posts. (And to think its on a topic that might not even happen Ha!)

Gcver2ver3
01-31-2006, 08:42 PM
The only thing I see as being the Raiders is us signing troubled players. But what team dosnt have those kind? At least we don't have convicts. and at least we find way to win ulike the raiders who find ways to lose. Only the raider would get Moss and lamont jordan and be sh1tty. Your team is fvckn pathatic.


now that was a funny take.....

Hilarious!

crazyhorse
01-31-2006, 08:47 PM
The only thing I see as being the Raiders is us signing troubled players. But what team dosnt have those kind? At least we don't have convicts. and at least we find way to win ulike the raiders who find ways to lose. Only the raider would get Moss and lamont jordan and be sh1tty. Your team is fvckn pathatic.

Quit whining.

I was merely comparing the Raiders signing the other malcontent WR last season and what it did for them.

If it makes you feel more secure I'll try to soften my commentary from here forward.

Well.....sorta.

Gcver2ver3
01-31-2006, 08:47 PM
Yep :yep:

(And to think its on a topic that might not even happen Ha!)



true...but don't say that cuz i'm all excited about it now....:yayaya:


BTW...i friggin love your avatar...did you make that?

i want it but i don't like copying.....is there anything you have similar i can use?

my avatar has a gay look to it (not that there is anything wrong with that Uhh )

-slap- cracked me about it....he's right it does look a little gayish...but i didn't want to use a TO pic with eagle or niner uniform....

can you help me?

12th man
01-31-2006, 08:54 PM
Quit whining.

I was merely comparing the Raiders signing the other malcontent WR last season and what it did for them.

If it makes you feel more secure I'll try to soften my commentary from here forward.

Well.....sorta.
who's whinning? I was only pointing out the obviouse.

12th man
01-31-2006, 08:55 PM
who's whinning? I was only pointing out the obviouse.
if anything, I was laughing at your attempt to compare the raiders to the broncos.

watermock
01-31-2006, 09:04 PM
TO controversial? 777 posts in two days say no!

Git er done....I'll run the gauntlet...we need a WR period.

More good news...Stephen A. Smith will be doing Bronco games next year....

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/stmagazine/picard-borg-nightmare.jpg

12th man
01-31-2006, 09:05 PM
TO controversial? 777 posts in two days say no!
what more can we possibly say about TO that someone hasnt already said?

hades
01-31-2006, 09:14 PM
TO loves money. He lost out a bunch this year by opening his mouth and saying stupid things. I think he will do good for at least 1 year, so I stilll say bring him to Denver, just structure a contract where we can cut him off he does act like an idiot again.

You know the old saying, put your money where your mouth is, well, I think TO learned his lesson about his mouth, and how much it cost him!

ludo21
01-31-2006, 09:15 PM
what more can we possibly say about TO that someone hasnt already said?


we gotta make it 1k posts in this thread, so plenty can be rehashed! ;D

anthonypacino
01-31-2006, 09:16 PM
Everyone including Woody Paige says that TO here is a good idea, they keep using the example Shanny picked up Dale Carter, Russell, Maurice Clarett, but do they remember how those worked out? NO to TO!!! He is going to destroy Plummer, Rod is our #1 How will TO deal with being #2? How do they keep him from blowing up on the sideline, I don't ever remember any player walk up to Shanny during a game and start a temper tantrum, or a Bronco go off inthe media or locker room about another teammate. I know the only way to give TO a chance is to pick him up but after looking at what has happened to the other teams that have been affilated with him, I'm not willing to take the risk, go get Eric Moulds, he isn't as flashy as TO but I bet he can put up the same type numbers in our system, and he won't complain about it either.

watermock
01-31-2006, 09:21 PM
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/stmagazine/picard-borg-nightmare.jpg

Stephen A. Smith is interviewing Elway! Noooooooooooooo

12th man
01-31-2006, 09:22 PM
Rod is our #1 How will TO deal with being #2?
Rod is team player and therefore would humbly accept the #2 role

phisig150
01-31-2006, 09:56 PM
Can you imagine TO as our #1 Smith as our #2 and Lelie as our #3 and Jeb as our TE . Thats damn near unstoppable. Very reminescent of Indy's offense. Do it Shanny. With these weapons at his disposal I want to be the first to go out on a limb and call it Plummer= MVP.

ludo21
01-31-2006, 09:58 PM
Can you imagine TO as our #1 Smith as our #2 and Lelie as our #3 and Jeb as our TE . Thats damn near unstoppable. Very reminescent of Indy's offense. Do it Shanny. With these weapons at his disposal I want to be the first to go out on a limb and call it Plummer= MVP.


whoever is in the backfield would be the BVP. With those weapons Defenses couldnt stack the box and with our OL our RB would dominate!:strong:

12th man
01-31-2006, 10:01 PM
whoever is in the backfield would be the BVP. With those weapons Defenses couldnt stack the box and with our OL our RB would dominate!:strong:TO just opens up our offense so much more. we would be unstoppable.

watermock
01-31-2006, 10:02 PM
Can you imagine TO as our #1 Smith as our #2 and Lelie as our #3 and Jeb as our TE . Thats damn near unstoppable. Very reminescent of Indy's offense. Do it Shanny. With these weapons at his disposal I want to be the first to go out on a limb and call it Plummer= MVP.

Trade the Putz to move up and take Veron Davis. Hell, throw in the Claw.

Get TO and Veron Davis at TE and grab the steel.

Rod, Ash, V. Davis and TO we will grab the steel.

phisig150
01-31-2006, 10:10 PM
I don't if I'm ready to give up on Jeb yet. Plus I think we would be better served using our daft picks on de and safety or maybe o-line

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 10:14 PM
Everyone including Woody Paige says that TO here is a good idea, they keep using the example Shanny picked up Dale Carter, Russell, Maurice Clarett, but do they remember how those worked out? NO to TO!!! He is going to destroy Plummer, Rod is our #1 How will TO deal with being #2? How do they keep him from blowing up on the sideline, I don't ever remember any player walk up to Shanny during a game and start a temper tantrum, or a Bronco go off inthe media or locker room about another teammate. I know the only way to give TO a chance is to pick him up but after looking at what has happened to the other teams that have been affilated with him, I'm not willing to take the risk, go get Eric Moulds, he isn't as flashy as TO but I bet he can put up the same type numbers in our system, and he won't complain about it either.
one of them said that its not a good idea and they wouldn't want him near his team.

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 10:15 PM
we sound alot like raiders fans, with Moss we can't be stopped.

BurgundyNGold
01-31-2006, 10:15 PM
What Shanahan does is sit the player in question down and say to him,"Look TO this is the way we do things here and this is what I expect of you if you do these things you play if you don't you're gone". Then he structures a contract that allows him to to just what he promised. If TO comes here it will be under these terms just like it was with the Browncos and before you say but they were not the locker room cancer that TO is the bottom line remains the same, screw up and you are gone.

I guarantee you if Shanahan signs TO he will be able to cut him without putting the team in cap hell cause he's been there and done that and learned from the experience.
That's exactly what he did with Maurice Clarett. Now he's out holding people up for their cell phones. Shanny is hard core that way, lol.

BurgundyNGold
01-31-2006, 10:16 PM
wow....don't agree there....he kicked camera man in the nuts...he started many fights....he lead the league in technicals...he lead the league in suspensions...

with that said...i still loved him with the bulls...reason being is because the bulls were winning (i'm a bulls fan btw)
OK, so maybe I overstated that a bit, lol.

listopencil
01-31-2006, 10:22 PM
we sound alot like raiders fans, with Moss we can't be stopped.


You make a good point. I do think TO is better than Moss but I've disliked the guy for a long time. It would be hard to stomache seeing him in a Bronco uni.

RMT
01-31-2006, 10:30 PM
Everyone including Woody Paige says that TO here is a good idea, they keep using the example Shanny picked up Dale Carter, Russell, Maurice Clarett, but do they remember how those worked out? NO to TO!!! He is going to destroy Plummer, Rod is our #1 How will TO deal with being #2? How do they keep him from blowing up on the sideline, I don't ever remember any player walk up to Shanny during a game and start a temper tantrum, or a Bronco go off inthe media or locker room about another teammate. I know the only way to give TO a chance is to pick him up but after looking at what has happened to the other teams that have been affilated with him, I'm not willing to take the risk, go get Eric Moulds, he isn't as flashy as TO but I bet he can put up the same type numbers in our system, and he won't complain about it either.

No disrespect to Rod Smith, he'd be our #1 on paper but TO's talent could possibly push Rod to #1B. Also we already have plenty of "isn't as flashy as TO." We need a WR that can change the game and force the defense to respect our pass offense more often. That, in turn, opens up our running game even more. That would be scary.

watermock
01-31-2006, 10:33 PM
Why isn't this thread getting any more attention?

RMT
01-31-2006, 10:34 PM
I don't if I'm ready to give up on Jeb yet. Plus I think we would be better served using our daft picks on de and safety or maybe o-line

Here's a thought for a trade ... the Broncos have indicated that they'd possibly make a trade for TO to prevent him from negotiating with other clubs.

Giving up a 1st rounder is not likely to happen but WHAT IF ...
the Broncos traded for TO and swapped 1st round picks (#22 or #29 for #14). That would put us in position to get Davis and still have a 1st round pick to nab a defensive player.

watermock
01-31-2006, 10:36 PM
Fine...but we are 20M over the cap and TO is due a 7 million roster bonus in a couple months...

Houston...we have a problem..

RMT
01-31-2006, 10:36 PM
we sound alot like raiders fans, with Moss we can't be stopped.

There's a difference ... "a rolling stone gathers no moss" ... the Broncos are rolling and the Raiders' aren't.

RMT
01-31-2006, 10:37 PM
Fine...but we are 20M over the cap and TO is due a 7 million roster bonus in a couple months...

Houston...we have a problem..

He would have to renegotiate before the trade and sign an incentive-laden deal. Plus, a significant portion of the $20M everyone's so concerned about is tied up in roster bonuses and players who will be let go if they don't renegotiate themselves. We'll be fine, even if we get TO.

DBroncos4life
01-31-2006, 10:39 PM
He would have to renegotiate before the trade and sign an incentive-laden deal. Plus, a significant portion of the $20M everyone's so concerned about is tied up in roster bonuses and players who will be let go if they don't renegotiate themselves. We'll be fine, even if we get TO.
Its been pointed out many times but mock will never understand this.

Gcver2ver3
01-31-2006, 10:41 PM
This thread has numbers all the way across my screen.....

it looks like that stupid neck and pony thread now....

Kaylore
01-31-2006, 10:43 PM
Wait a minute, what's going on with TO?

watermock
01-31-2006, 10:47 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2681&dateline=1138592664

"I've done more than kill you. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on...hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me. As you left her. Marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet. Buried alive... Buried alive... Buried alive..."

https://www.startrekexp.com/store/images/products/product_612.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-31-2006, 11:53 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2681&dateline=1138592664



https://www.startrekexp.com/store/images/products/product_612.jpg
Did you pull that quote from your head or did you need a refresher.

broncocalijohn
01-31-2006, 11:59 PM
I guess the same could have been said of Berry and Hayward...who had horrible seasons after their big year...doh.

I have felt the same way! Look at Pryce's sack numbers. They are half of what they should be. Our D line held runners and put pressure but with Berry and Hayward we had so much pressure on the QB with the pass. If just one of them were on this 05 team, it could have given us that difference in the Championship game. There were other problems than that, but I am just saying.....

broncoblue
02-01-2006, 10:47 AM
whats the latest?

Old Dude
02-01-2006, 11:35 AM
Schefter says that the Redskins are now in the mix:

A T.O. FOR T.O.
More and more, it's looking as if the Eagles are going to be able to extract some form of compensation for disgruntled wide receiver Terrell Owens.

Sports Illustrated's Peter King will be reporting on Wednesday night's Inside the NFL that the Redskins are the latest entrant into the T.O. sweepstakes, and definitely the most intriguing. Redskins owner Daniel Snyder thrives on making high-profile acquisitions, like this one would be. Plus, it would be yet another boost to a Redskins offense that already has added offensive coordintor Al Saunders.

But now that the Redskins are involved, and possibly willing to give up a first-day draft pick, the Cowboys are likely to follow suit. Hard to imagine Cowboys owner Jerry Jones just sitting back and watching Snyder add another marketable commodity to his stable in Washington without doing anything.

Also, Chiefs president Carl Peterson is saying that Kansas City needs to take a look at T.O., shortly after Kansas City's division rival Broncos brought T.O. to Denver for a visit.

The Dolphins are interested, the Buccaneers will be interested, and so, amazingly, there will be no shortage of suitors for Owens, who now looks destined to be dealt.

Smart money is now on Washington. Redskins are the favorite.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9201384

Mile High Shack
02-01-2006, 11:38 AM
if someone wants to give a 3rd round pick for him

more power to them

thank goodness we aren't going to get him

12th man
02-01-2006, 11:40 AM
Schefter says that the Redskins are now in the mix:

A T.O. FOR T.O.
More and more, it's looking as if the Eagles are going to be able to extract some form of compensation for disgruntled wide receiver Terrell Owens.

Sports Illustrated's Peter King will be reporting on Wednesday night's Inside the NFL that the Redskins are the latest entrant into the T.O. sweepstakes, and definitely the most intriguing. Redskins owner Daniel Snyder thrives on making high-profile acquisitions, like this one would be. Plus, it would be yet another boost to a Redskins offense that already has added offensive coordintor Al Saunders.

But now that the Redskins are involved, and possibly willing to give up a first-day draft pick, the Cowboys are likely to follow suit. Hard to imagine Cowboys owner Jerry Jones just sitting back and watching Snyder add another marketable commodity to his stable in Washington without doing anything.

Also, Chiefs president Carl Peterson is saying that Kansas City needs to take a look at T.O., shortly after Kansas City's division rival Broncos brought T.O. to Denver for a visit.

The Dolphins are interested, the Buccaneers will be interested, and so, amazingly, there will be no shortage of suitors for Owens, who now looks destined to be dealt.

Smart money is now on Washington. Redskins are the favorite.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9201384
Now I don't see TO coming here at all. There are so many teams that want him now, and that means someone is going to give him the big bucks, and I don't think we could compete with that.

DBroncos4life
02-01-2006, 11:46 AM
Now I don't see TO coming here at all. There are so many teams that want him now, and that means someone is going to give him the big bucks, and I don't think we could compete with that.
YES

Old Dude
02-01-2006, 11:47 AM
Well, it makes sense that Rosenscum would try to shop him around. That's what agents do.

Rascal
02-01-2006, 11:51 AM
Apparently Shanny was pissed that word got out that TO even came here. And apparently he told Rosenhaus as much. Pretty much solidifies the fact he won't be coming here. If I'm shanny I would come out and say after review...never mind just to **** them over after that stunt by Rosenhaus.

Old Dude
02-01-2006, 12:07 PM
I still think he's coming here.

K.C. and Miami have the attitude that they can "straighten him out." T.O. does not see a need to be straightened out. All Shanny has said is that these are the rules, and everyone has to follow them. That's a much more appealing sales pitch.

The Skins might be interested, but they aren't exactly rolling in cap money ... or first day draft picks, for that matter.

It's typical east coast media blather.

orange crusher
02-01-2006, 12:07 PM
I think there is zero chance that he gets traded to the Cowgirls or the Skins. Andy Reid might not like him, but he isn't stupid and isn't going to trade him to a division rival.

Meck77
02-01-2006, 12:47 PM
OK time for me to chime in here. I'm dead set against a TO deal. There is just no way he could join this team and mesh with Jake first of all. I don't know Jake personally but I've talked to him on a few occasions and know a few people pretty close to Jake. All Jake wants to do is win a superbowl and this is not on TOs top list of goals first of all. Jake speaks his mind and is pretty strong personality but as far as I know the team respects him.

TO has disrespected too many owners, coaches, and teamates, and fans to change now. My ole man has a saying "Do what you've always done and you get what you've always gotten". You really think TO is going to change all of a sudden? TO has been a prick since he got into this league.

Another factor. Rod Smith. I don't think there is a better example of an anti-TO personality in the league. TO is definetly physically gifted but beyond that he's trash IMO. Rod fought his way into this league and comes to training camp as if he is a rookie year in year out. You really think Rod and TO could see I to eye? Hell no.

Our team isn't that far off from the promise land as demonstrated this year. I see no reason to break the bank and alienate alot of veterans on this team who have stuck with Shanny. Portis wanted the big dollars and he was shown the door. When we won those superbowls it was because there was character on our team and guys sacrificed as a TEAM. Eddie Mac wasn't a TO. Rod Smith really has never been considered one of the best in the league either.

There is no doubt in my mind that TO would do more to hurt our team than help it. Sure he'd put some points up but is he the one single player out there in FA that is going to get us to the SB? Hell we made the AFC Championship game with a bunch of "Castoffs" from the Browns. Look at the impact Darrent Williams and Foxworth had this year!

I think we definetly need to weigh all the options available for WR via FA but ultimately we need to utilize our draft picks........Yeah I know great idea there Meck. Well if you look at how many of our draft pics end up laying tile or selling insurance shortly after we drafted them it's pretty obvious to me how poorly we have done in this category minus a few obvious exceptions.

No to TO.

ludo21
02-01-2006, 12:53 PM
Good argument Meck, i agree that TO would only hurt us.

But that could hurt him if we give him an incentive contract that made him behave.

Also just cause TO wants money doesnt mean he doesnt want the SB, his inner heart showed when he played in the SB after that broken leg. He does want the Lombardi.

Maybe a one year trial?

Old Dude
02-01-2006, 12:54 PM
I think there is zero chance that he gets traded to the Cowgirls or the Skins. Andy Reid might not like him, but he isn't stupid and isn't going to trade him to a division rival.

Good point.

I could see the boys or skins making a play for him if he's cut, though, which gives Philly extra incentive to work a trade with someone else.

Morton
02-01-2006, 01:04 PM
I find all the hatred toward Owens very interesting. The reasons for not liking Owens as a person are many. The reasons for not liking him as a player are few and most of them are subjective and far more difficult to defend.

Owens did not destroy either the Niners or Eagles. Each of those teams was much better with him than without him. Rightly or wrongly so, the Eagles were unwilling to capitulate to his demands for a new contract and their hands were forced when ownership (which has a long history of being cheap with their players) decided they wanted to protect both McNabb and their overall cap flexibility with the various other key FAs on their roster.

I don't defend or condone his idiotic and terribly selfish behavior of this past year or in previous years. On the other hand, there is no other wide receiver in the NFL who plays harder, blocks better and who has such game breaking ability at the position than he does. He's got at least two or three very good years left in his tank and even he is not dumb enough to fail to realize that he has run out of any more opportunities to f*ck up in the NFL.

He WILL be signing a deal with a new team for a rich deal that will be heavily weighted with reachable incentives (as well as severe penalties for violations of clearly defined behavioral stipulations) and whichever team gets him will be substantially improved on offense as result because in addition to his exceptional performance abilities on the field, he is also one of those rare players that makes other players better too. Just look at McNabb's stats with and without TO.

And if he ends up in KC, which is a distinct possibility, we will live to sorely regret it....

~Crash~
02-01-2006, 01:17 PM
I find all the hatred toward Owens very interesting. The reasons for not liking Owens as a person are many. The reasons for not liking him as a player are few and most of them are subjective and far more difficult to defend.

Owens did not destroy either the Niners or Eagles. Each of those teams was much better with him than without him. Rightly or wrongly so, the Eagles were unwilling to capitulate to his demands for a new contract and their hands were forced when ownership (which has a long history of being cheap with their players) decided they wanted to protect both McNabb and their overall cap flexibility with the various other key FAs on their roster.

I don't defend or condone his idiotic and terribly selfish behavior of this past year or in previous years. On the other hand, there is no other wide receiver in the NFL who plays harder, blocks better and who has such game breaking ability at the position than he does. He's got at least two or three very good years left in his tank and even he is not dumb enough to fail to realize that he has run out of any more opportunities to **** up in the NFL.

He WILL be signing a deal with a new team for a rich deal that will be heavily weighted with reachable incentives (as well as severe penalties for violations of clearly defined behavioral stipulations) and whichever team gets him will be substantially improved on offense as result because in addition to his exceptional performance abilities on the field, he is also one of those rare players that makes other players better too. Just look at McNabb's stats with and without TO.

And if he ends up in KC, which is a distinct possibility, we will live to sorely regret it....

wow great take but I think we are going to have our hand full with KC next year anyways...

-Slap-
02-01-2006, 01:20 PM
but rodman is the best example of a bad guy helping turn a contender into a champion...so i wanna use that to encourage me....

Ever heard of Horace Grant, Bulls fan?

-Slap-
02-01-2006, 01:22 PM
I find all the hatred toward Owens very interesting. The reasons for not liking Owens as a person are many. The reasons for not liking him as a player are few and most of them are subjective and far more difficult to defend.

Owens did not destroy either the Niners or Eagles. Each of those teams was much better with him than without him. Rightly or wrongly so, the Eagles were unwilling to capitulate to his demands for a new contract and their hands were forced when ownership (which has a long history of being cheap with their players) decided they wanted to protect both McNabb and their overall cap flexibility with the various other key FAs on their roster.

I don't defend or condone his idiotic and terribly selfish behavior of this past year or in previous years. On the other hand, there is no other wide receiver in the NFL who plays harder, blocks better and who has such game breaking ability at the position than he does. He's got at least two or three very good years left in his tank and even he is not dumb enough to fail to realize that he has run out of any more opportunities to **** up in the NFL.

He WILL be signing a deal with a new team for a rich deal that will be heavily weighted with reachable incentives (as well as severe penalties for violations of clearly defined behavioral stipulations) and whichever team gets him will be substantially improved on offense as result because in addition to his exceptional performance abilities on the field, he is also one of those rare players that makes other players better too. Just look at McNabb's stats with and without TO.

And if he ends up in KC, which is a distinct possibility, we will live to sorely regret it....
Yeah, TO plays harder and blocks better than guys like Hines Ward and Rod Smith. This thread is like a trip to Fantasy Land.

ludo21
02-01-2006, 01:23 PM
Ever heard of Horace Grant, Bulls fan?


Grant was a hard working utility player. I like that.

DBroncos4life
02-01-2006, 01:26 PM
Yeah, TO plays harder and blocks better than guys like Hines Ward and Rod Smith. This thread is like a trip to Fantasy Land.
I see saving a kid in Owens future, just like his agent did last year.

-Slap-
02-01-2006, 01:27 PM
Grant was a hard working utility player. I like that.
That huge Bulls fan - who probably broke an ankle jumping off the bandwagon both times Jordan retired - said Dennis Rodman took the Bulls from contender to champion. Ho Grant played the four for Chicago and won just as many rings as Rodfag.

Old Dude
02-01-2006, 01:28 PM
These are all great points, Meck, but for the sake of argument ....

... All Jake wants to do is win a superbowl ...

I have no doubt that this is true. But if Owens performs and drops the antics, he could be a key to getting us over the hump. Why would Jake object to that?



... and this is not on TOs top list of goals first of all.

Money is probably his biggest priority, but surely he knows, just like everyone else knows, that winning a super bowl leads to endorsements and more money. The only problem I see is that Owens is not going accept contract restructures or diminished pay simply to bring in some additional talent somewhere else on the team. But no matter what they say, everyone has their limit on this. No one plays for free.



Jake speaks his mind and is pretty strong personality but as far as I know the team respects him.

He's probably more respected by his teammates than he is by fans or the media.


TO has disrespected too many owners, coaches, and teamates, and fans to change now. My ole man has a saying "Do what you've always done and you get what you've always gotten". You really think TO is going to change all of a sudden? TO has been a prick since he got into this league.

I'm not sure that's true. Looking through background info on the guy, it looks like he did and said all the right things his first couple seasons in the league. In fact, I don't think there were any negative incidents in '96, '97, '98 or '99. Something went seriously south in SF in 2000, after the Dallas logo incident.

The team suspended Terrell for a week and fined him $24,000. He reacted angrily to what he perceived as a lack of support from the organization. The media was having a field day with his performance in Dallas, and in his mind the club left him alone in his time of need.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Owens/Owens_bio.html

You know, in a way, it's kind of ironic that Owens has gotten into so much controversy over his taunting tactics. Shannon Sharpe and Bill Romanowski were a couple of the most notorious hecklers of the era. It's not unlikely that Owens was attempting to emulate Sharpe.

At any rate, I think the fallout from that incident was huge and really soured Owens on the whole 49er organization. It's about the same time that he got the media's attention, and almost all of it was negative.

I think that this is part of what turned him into "a prick."



Another factor. Rod Smith. I don't think there is a better example of an anti-TO personality in the league. TO is definetly physically gifted but beyond that he's trash IMO. Rod fought his way into this league and comes to training camp as if he is a rookie year in year out. You really think Rod and TO could see I to eye? Hell no.

Two different issues here. Yes, in terms of public image, leadership, team sacrifice and all that, Rod is the "anti-T.O." But, except for the camp performance in '05, which was basically a slow-motion holdout, T.O. has always trained hard. His work ethic would not be the issue.



Our team isn't that far off from the promise land as demonstrated this year. I see no reason to break the bank and alienate alot of veterans on this team who have stuck with Shanny. Portis wanted the big dollars and he was shown the door. When we won those superbowls it was because there was character on our team and guys sacrificed as a TEAM.

We also had a hell of a lot more talent, especially on offense.


Eddie Mac wasn't a TO. Rod Smith really has never been considered one of the best in the league either.

But we did have Elway, Davis, Sharpe, Zimmerman and Griffith, just to name a few guys who belong in the HoF.


... is he the one single player out there in FA that is going to get us to the SB? Hell we made the AFC Championship game with a bunch of "Castoffs" from the Browns. ...

It's hard to argue with this one. We've almost always had better luck with low-profile free agents than with high ones. Anyone remember Anthony Miller? :)


I think we definetly need to weigh all the options available for WR via FA but ultimately we need to utilize our draft picks........Yeah I know great idea there Meck. Well if you look at how many of our draft pics end up laying tile or selling insurance shortly after we drafted them it's pretty obvious to me how poorly we have done in this category minus a few obvious exceptions.


WR's have some of the highest bust rates in the first round of draft. So do defensive linemen. Sucks that we need both.

24champ
02-01-2006, 01:31 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned in this thread or anywhere else.....

Sports illustrated the magazine we all have come to love LOL (the issue with Reggie Bush and Matt leinart on the front cover) it specifically said on the bottom right hand corner of pg. 69 that T.O will sign with denver in the offseason after turning down a offer from the Dallas Cowboys.

Natedog24
02-01-2006, 01:35 PM
If all we accomplish in this TO talk BS is force another team like the Chiefs to pay more for TO then they would have originally then I say mission accomplished.

Morton
02-01-2006, 01:37 PM
Yeah, TO plays harder and blocks better than guys like Hines Ward and Rod Smith. This thread is like a trip to Fantasy Land.

Ward and Smith are both excellent receivers who are widely regarded for their tremendous skill and toughness on the field. Neither of them, however, is the player that Owens is and if you really believe that they are then you have just established convincing proof of residency in Fanatasy Land. If I'm ever in town, I presume I should look you up under the name Mr. Slap Happy........

12th man
02-01-2006, 01:47 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned in this thread or anywhere else.....

Sports illustrated the magazine we all have come to love LOL (the issue with Reggie Bush and Matt leinart on the front cover) it specifically said on the bottom right hand corner of pg. 69 that T.O will sign with denver in the offseason after turning down a offer from the Dallas Cowboys.
when did you read this?

ND Bronco Fan
02-01-2006, 01:57 PM
http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2005/1226.html

December 26, 2005 issue-I do not have magazine to see if it is in there but this is the issue he is referring to.

24champ
02-01-2006, 01:59 PM
when did you read this?
Just now.

ND Bronco Fan
02-01-2006, 02:00 PM
Just now.

Scan that page in and upload it on here.

12th man
02-01-2006, 02:02 PM
http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/2005/1226.html

December 26, 2005 issue-I do not have magazine to see if it is in there but this is the issue he is referring to.

Thanks. so that article is now irrelevent because Now it's not just us and the cowboys. I don't think we could offer more money to TO than some of the other teams could.

24champ
02-01-2006, 02:04 PM
Scan that page in and upload it on here.
I will once class is over.....:thumbsup:

bronco militia
02-01-2006, 03:27 PM
By Nick Bakay SuperBowl.com Couch Correspondent

SAVE THIS QUOTE WHEN YOU NEED A GOOD LAUGH A YEAR FROM NOW:

"If it would work anywhere, I think it would work here because of the guys in the locker room. Guys would keep him straight. I think he'd conform. He'd fit in here." -- Broncos center Tom Nalen on Terrell Owens

Yeah, and I'm just the guy to get Paris Hilton to settle down and start a family.



Okay, let's review: T.O. played with Jeff Garcia back when he was an All-Pro and threw him under a bus. T.O. played with Donovan McNabb when he was an All-Pro and a Super Bowl starter and threw him under a bus.

How long until he throws Jake Plummer into a wood chipper?

Don't get me wrong, Owens is tempting -- hey, I drafted him in fantasy football because he puts up monster numbers -- as long as he isn't on double secret probation like some naughty kid at boarding school but there's a big difference: As a fantasy football owner, I don't have to talk to him.

I don't have to change his diapers. I don't have to fork over a seven-figure bonus only to watch his narcissism turn my clubhouse into a bad episode of Jerry Springer, with my make-or-break free agent playing the role of the psychotic pre-op transsexual stripper off his/her meds.

In the mercurial world of T.O., all it takes is one game for things to go south. I'm talking a rough Sunday, or even worse, a primetime game when the guy tossing him the rock plays like "The old Jake Plummer." How long until this diva wide receiver will accuse Plummer of frolicking with barnyard animals?

Maybe the Broncos can harness T.O. with enough incentive-based clauses to milk one, sane year out him and separate from the AFC elite. But Year 2 is shakier than K-Fed's "musical" career.

In the meantime, I don't sign Owens unless he agrees to a Paxil clause and three specials with Dr. Phil

P.S.: If the Bills can't fit Eric Moulds under the cap, I think I just made Mike Shanahan's job a lot easier. I know he's not T.O. anymore, but he's a pro, he can catch the ball when it's snowing, and Moulds, Rod Smith and Ashley Lelie? Close enough for rock and roll, sans the tabloid stuff.

http://www.superbowl.com/features/bakay

24champ
02-01-2006, 03:45 PM
http://www.onlinesports.com/pages/I,SZS-1115.html

Good buy or no?

Old Dude
02-01-2006, 04:02 PM
Interesting:

"[N]early 20 Eagles went to Owens' birthday party in Atlantic City in December, after he was kicked off the team."

...

On that issue of trusting your teammates, McNabb talked indirectly about Eagles' players who backed Owens, and not McNabb, in the conflict between the star receiver, McNabb and team management.

"Personally, this is a sign for my teammates... . That person you may smile and talk to every day, that same person can talk about you in the media or publicly, or talk to somebody else about how he doesn't like you or is jealous of you or whatever it might be," McNabb said in remarks that appear in today's Philadelpha Inquirer.


"So again, every individual makes their own decisions. Now for me, it's time to see how my teammates react to that. We've obviously seen how they reacted to it during the season. They wanted (Owens) back. So what message does that send to you?"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11119954/

ro_50
02-01-2006, 04:15 PM
If it did come down to Eric Moulds or TO, I would pick Moulds.

NFLBRONCO
02-01-2006, 04:17 PM
If it did come down to Eric Moulds or TO, I would pick Moulds.


Moulds is safer no doubt but, we need an upgrade not inconsistant old guy like Moulds.

DBroncos4life
02-01-2006, 04:25 PM
I rather have Brandon Lloyd

elsid13
02-01-2006, 04:33 PM
Just out of curiosity is who else is Rosenhaus client? I'm wondering if Shanahan is help the shark out here?

baja
02-01-2006, 04:46 PM
I still hope that Watts will turn the light on.

Garcia Bronco
02-01-2006, 04:58 PM
I still hope that Watts will turn the light on.


There is a joke in there some where

Bronco_Beerslug
02-01-2006, 04:59 PM
I still hope that Watts will turn the light on.
Yo have to be kidding Baja........


http://www.backpacking.net/images/lobster-claw.jpg

baja
02-01-2006, 05:02 PM
Yo have to be kidding Baja........


http://www.backpacking.net/images/lobster-claw.jpg

I think his problem in in his head more than with his injury. Witness the catches he made in collage, catching the ball is catching the ball.

HEAV
02-01-2006, 05:40 PM
Andy Schwartz, of ComcastSportsNet.com, reports Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb was once again questioned on WR Terrell Owens' situation during an appearance on ESPN's NFL Live. McNabb was asked about Owens and the role the Owens ordeal played in the Eagles' 6-10 season. McNabb said it didn't hurt his preparation, "but things like that become a cancer in the locker room, and it tore our locker room up and divided a lot of guys, and right now we're just trying to put the pieces together." Despite the fact that he was one of several key players whose season was cut short by injury, McNabb wouldn't use it as an excuse. "It's easy to say the injuries were the problem. But I think (the Owens situation) was the problem," McNabb said. "It started early. We had an opportunity to go out and play well. Obviously the injuries held us back, but once you put a little mouse in and it begins to eat up everything, it's all gone." When asked if Owens was the mouse, McNabb started to laugh and backtracked. "I'm not using him and saying he's the mouse," McNabb said. "Don't even write that one."
---------------


Not sure about everyone else. But McNabb is looking worse and worse to me. I understand T.O. and he had issues. But damn let it go. Every spund bite is him blaming T.O. for what happened. Jezz McNabb. You where playing like crap. Not to mention you sucked ass in the super bowl.

I'm starting to think there was a reason why many of T.O.'s teammates where on his side.

DBroncos4life
02-01-2006, 05:53 PM
I think it had to do with his mom feeding them soup all the damn time. I would get sick if I just ate soup all the time.

GonzoLays
02-01-2006, 06:25 PM
T.O.-Tally Happy In Eaglesland!!




March 16, 2004
By BOB KENT


It started three years ago at the Pro Bowl. A touchdown pass from Donovan McNabb to Terrell Owens -- one all-star to another. But at that moment, a chemistry was born.
Meanwhile, on the sidelines and in practice, head coach Andy Reid and his staff got to know the flamboyant Owens both personally and professionally. And they apparently liked what they saw.

Minus Sharpies and pom-poms, they saw Owens the football player -- an athlete with a tremendous work ethic and an unparalleled passion for the game.


And on Tuesday, the Eagles welcomed the playmaking receiver into the nest for the next seven years, bringing to end a saga that stopped just short of an arbitrator's ruling.

"I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited to play with D. Mac [Donovan McNabb]," said Owens. "I'm definitely feeling like I'm going to fit in real nice. I've gotten to know the coaching staff over the last few Pro Bowls that I've been to. One of my reasons for choosing the Philadelphia Eagles is I'm comfortable with the West Coast offense."

Owens gives the Eagles and McNabb the No. 1 target the offense needs. Owens has averaged 93 receptions, 1,316 yards and 13 touchdowns over the past four seasons.

"The touchdowns that I've had in the Pro Bowl, Donovan has thrown them to me (one in 2001 and one in 2002). That just comes with two athletes going out there and making plays. It's chemistry in the making," Owens said. "I never knew that I was going to be sitting up here today at a press conference for the Eagles, but things happen for a reason."

Indeed they do.

If anything good came of the Eagles dropping three consecutive NFC title games, it was that Reid and his staff were exposed to the flamboyant Owens first-hand.

Flashback once again to the Pro Bowl games and Reid recalls what impressed him about Owens.

"The number one thing is that this guy was the hardest worker. You'd think we were in season," Reid said of Owens. "A lot of times, players go to the Pro Bowl and kind of glide through that. He goes over and it's like it's his first practice of his career and the last opportunity that he'll have to show. That jumped out at me.

"You've heard so many things about Jerry Rice's work ethic. I had always heard that Terrell always took it another step further. That was just so obvious when we were over there (in Hawaii). He has a passion for the game. That's something that I like. I don't mind the personality. He understands how we are and how we operate. That's a situation over there that developed. We both got to see each other work."

Owens' antics on and off the field have led some to question whether he is the kind of "character" player that will fit in with the Eagles locker room.

Two years ago, he pulled out a pen and signed a ball after scoring a touchdown in Seattle. Owens also precipitated a melee during a game by dancing on the Dallas Cowboys' star at midfield after scoring.

Owens answered the character questions point-blank on Tuesday, noting his passion for the game.

"I think my character has definitely been an issue as far as whether I'll fit in or how I will mesh with the coaches and my teammates," Owens said. "We've talked. [Coach Reid's] explained the structure. I'm very aware of that. I understand that.

"I think a lot of people get it misconstrued from my passion on the field versus my personality off the field. I can tell you, it's basically night and day. I think these guys have gotten to know me the last two or three years over in Hawaii. That was more of an opportunity for us to get a feel for each other. It's probably more of the reason why I'm here now."

Since the end of the season, Owens had been campaigning openly about his desire to play for the Eagles, among several other teams. McNabb, meanwhile, had been lobbying too.

On Tuesday, both got their wish.

"I just want to win. I feel like I'm in a winning organization here," Owens said. "Maybe I am the missing link. We'll soon see. If I don't think I am, then I shouldn't be here. I have that much confidence in myself and my abilities to think I can.

"I'm going to give 100 percent once I'm on the field. I'm just hoping that some of the guys can feed off me and I can feed off those guys and we can all be successful here."

While March Madness is ready to begin, March Gladness is in full swing with the Eagles.

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=9965

This guy fits in, he just wants to get paid. He played on a team that went to the Super Bowl and on numerous 49ers playoff teams. Just pay the man, and he will be happy.

And another thing, people don't have to be best friends to play football. These guys don't have to be singing kumbaya after the game holding hands. This is a business, and guys want players on their team who help them win.

hades
02-01-2006, 06:36 PM
See, we should get him!

Clockwork Orange
02-01-2006, 06:38 PM
And just one year later.....

Tombstone RJ
02-01-2006, 06:39 PM
Nobody has ever doubted his work ethic, or his abilities. But, he signed a contract and then tried to weasel out of it. He also started pointing fingers after the SB loss. Plus, he was a dick in the locker room too.

Sorry. He's just dug himself a grave and now he wants everyone to think he won't do it again. And, now he has a dick of an agent too.

The only way I bring him in is on an incentive laden contract that can be bought out (lets say for a quick $2m) and his ass can be kicked to the curb, the second he starts becoming a locker room distraction.

And, I don't give a ratz azz about the people here who say "oh, Rod Smith will calm him down, or Al Wilson will calm him down, or Jake Plummer will calm him down...."

Bullchiat.

They guy has already beat on some big dude on the Eagles team. He's already dissed McNabb, Reid, and all the other vets on a very good Eagles team. Why on earth would he change for the Broncos?

Why, because Mike Shanahan runs the show?

Hey, I am a Broncos fan through and through, but I'm not an idiot. TO don't care who the team is, or who is in the locker room, or who is running the show. IF HE AIN'T HAPPY, HE AIN'T HAPPY, PERIOD.

HEAV
02-01-2006, 06:51 PM
McNabb says Owens' criticism amounts to ``black-on-black crime''
February 1, 2006

DETROIT (AP) -- Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb injected a race element into his rift with Terrell Owens on Wednesday, saying the receiver's criticism amounted to "black-on-black crime."

In an interview with ESPN, McNabb rehashed some of the low moments of his relationship with his teammate, making fun of Owens' driveway apology and bringing up the race angle.


In November, responding to a question from Michael Irvin during an ESPN interview, Owens said Philadelphia would likely be in a better situation if Brett Favre was the quarterback instead of the banged-up McNabb.

"It was like, it's unreal," McNabb said. "That's like me going out and saying, `Hey, if we had Steve Largent. If we had Joe Jurevicius. It was definitely a slap in the face to me. It was a slap in the face because, as deep as people want to go into it, it was black-on-black crime."

Not long after that, an NAACP leader criticized McNabb for "playing the race card" in explaining why he didn't run the ball as often as he used to.

In November, the Eagles suspended Owens for the remainder of the season for his repeated criticism of the team, McNabb and several other issues. The team recently gave Owens permission to seek a trade, and this week he visited the Denver Broncos.

On Wednesday, McNabb brought up some of the criticism he had taken through his career, and said Owens was simply piling on with his statement.

"It's different to say, `If we had Michael Vick or Daunte Culpepper or Steve McNair or Byron Leftwich," McNabb said of four black starting quarterbacks. "But to go straight to Brett Favre, that kind of just slapped me in the face like, `Wow ..."'

Owens apologized twice publicly -- once after his preseason holdout and then again, in his driveway, after he was suspended.

"The first apology, that was to the organization," McNabb said. "Then, I was thrown in there -- `If I offended Donovan in any way' -- you know. Instead of that, you could have just told me, hey, I apologize for the way it came out. I didn't mean it that way. Just come talk to me."

Tombstone RJ
02-01-2006, 06:52 PM
TO is a locker room cancer, end of story.

FantomForce
02-01-2006, 06:53 PM
[QUOTE=HEAV]McNabb says Owens' criticism amounts to ``black-on-black crime''
February 1, 2006

Damn right! If I have learned anything from southpark it is that if I am going to commit a crime I make sure that it is against my on race;D

12th man
02-01-2006, 06:53 PM
I think it had to do with his mom feeding them soup all the damn time. I would get sick if I just ate soup all the time.

It's the Cambells soup can curse. Mcnabb started on the cambell can and comercial all by himself, then the hole team joined in. McNabb is injured and the rest of the team is torn a part. I blame Cambpells soup for the destruction of the Eagles last year.

HEAV
02-01-2006, 06:55 PM
"It was like, it's unreal," McNabb said. "That's like me going out and saying, `Hey, if we had Steve Largent. If we had Joe Jurevicius. It was definitely a slap in the face to me. It was a slap in the face because, as deep as people want to go into it, it was black-on-black crime."

Come on Mcnabb.......... you stretching this to far.

Again I'm liking TO more and more. McNabb is looking worse with every word flying out of his mouth.

Sassy
02-01-2006, 07:08 PM
"but things like that become a cancer in the locker room, and it tore our locker room up and divided a lot of guys, and right now we're just trying to put the pieces together."

We were one game away...do we want this to be our season?

shakenbake
02-01-2006, 07:13 PM
Mcnabb didnt help when it came to dividing the locker room. If I remember correctly he took the "either your with me or against me" approch. Mcnabb seems like a little momma boy. Like heav I like TO more and more.

12th man
02-01-2006, 07:16 PM
Nobody has ever doubted his work ethic, or his abilities. But, he signed a contract and then tried to weasel out of it. He also started pointing fingers after the SB loss. Plus, he was a dick in the locker room too.

Sorry. He's just dug himself a grave and now he wants everyone to think he won't do it again. And, now he has a dick of an agent too.

The only way I bring him in is on an incentive laden contract that can be bought out (lets say for a quick $2m) and his ass can be kicked to the curb, the second he starts becoming a locker room distraction.

And, I don't give a ratz azz about the people here who say "oh, Rod Smith will calm him down, or Al Wilson will calm him down, or Jake Plummer will calm him down...."

Bullchiat.

They guy has already beat on some big dude on the Eagles team. He's already dissed McNabb, Reid, and all the other vets on a very good Eagles team. Why on earth would he change for the Broncos?

Why, because Mike Shanahan runs the show?

Hey, I am a Broncos fan through and through, but I'm not an idiot. TO don't care who the team is, or who is in the locker room, or who is running the show. IF HE AIN'T HAPPY, HE AIN'T HAPPY, PERIOD.

That was probably the best post in here saying why TO should not come here. I still think we should try and sign him. Shannahan does run the show, and he said if he comes here, he's going to have to play and act to their standards. That tells me, that at the first sign of trouble he's gone, or penalized or somthing of that nature. Also, as of right now I don't think we are going to get him. I thought it was just going to be between us and Dallas. But with Washington, KC, Tampa, and Miami going after him, someone is going to out bid us and he'll go where the best money situation is.

-Slap-
02-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Yeah, McNabb is such a selfish bastard, he played all season with a sports hernia.

Face it, now that precious TO might become a Bronco, he could kick an old woman down a metal stairway and some people on this board would make excuses for him.

Hogan11
02-01-2006, 07:20 PM
McNabb is losing it from having the TO question thrown into his face at every turn...that's easy to see.

As far as it makes TO look any better or excuse what he's all about, it doesn't....not one iota.

epicSocialism4tw
02-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Come on Mcnabb.......... you stretching this to far.

Again I'm liking TO more and more. McNabb is looking worse with every word flying out of his mouth.


Gyaw' lee...McNabb is a fool. Black-on-black crime? Brett Favre is better than McNabb...even entering retirement.

I just lost respect for that goober. Sheesh, what a misguided statement.

ludo21
02-01-2006, 07:39 PM
Donovon, just shut up, you won the PR battle, dont go back to it now.

Bronco_Beerslug
02-01-2006, 07:40 PM
n Wednesday, McNabb brought up some of the criticism he had taken through his career, and said Owens was simply piling on with his statement.

"It's different to say, `If we had Michael Vick or Daunte Culpepper or Steve McNair or Byron Leftwich," McNabb said of four black starting quarterbacks. "But to go straight to Brett Favre, that kind of just slapped me in the face like, `Wow ..."'

So McNabb would have been OK with it if TO would have used a black QB as the example instead of a white one?

Bronco_Beerslug
02-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Yeah, McNabb is such a selfish bastard, he played all season with a sports hernia.

Face it, now that precious TO might become a Bronco, he could kick an old woman down a metal stairway and some people on this board would make excuses for him.

Not quite all season, in fact, only 9 games. McNabb is acting more and more like one of the village idiots.

Hogan11
02-01-2006, 07:48 PM
Face it, now that precious TO might become a Bronco, he could kick an old woman down a metal stairway and some people on this board would make excuses for him.

I think this was the main part of Slap's post...and it's sad but true.

ludo21
02-01-2006, 07:50 PM
I think this was the main part of Slap's post...and it's sad but true.


I think it wouold be kinda funny given a certain circumstance. :P

Another fact is, we lost our first Championship game, we were so close to the SB we could all smell it, so we are desperate to get that taste back and finish the job!!

DBroncos4life
02-01-2006, 07:52 PM
McNuggets is losing it.

-Slap-
02-01-2006, 07:53 PM
I think it wouold be kinda funny given a certain circumstance. :P

Another fact is, we lost our first Championship game, we were so close to the SB we could all smell it, so we are desperate to get that taste back and finish the job!!
We're close enough to ruin everything, you mean. Chemistry is a fragile thing. The Broncos had it last year.

We also lost a Conference Championship Game before this year, so, that part isn't a fact at all.

Malcontent
02-01-2006, 08:00 PM
On a thread yesterday I defended McNabb. Not so much anymore. I lost a lot of respect for the guy today. T.O. is yes..arrogant. But he does back it up...Might just work for Shanny and the 6' 4 --230 pound mammoth WR that can take it to the house on an 8 yard slant!!!

-Slap-
02-01-2006, 08:03 PM
I agree Donovan should let it go, but he's probably still a little sore about TO referring to him as the house n_____ for the last two years.

2KBack
02-01-2006, 08:15 PM
This doesn't change my opinion about TO, he still steps on too many toes needlessly with his antics. This does however lower my respect for Mcnabb, he just plays the race card too much, and in situations where it is uncalled for.

baja
02-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Yeah, McNabb is such a selfish bastard, he played all season with a sports hernia.

Face it, now that precious TO might become a Bronco, he could kick an old woman down a metal stairway and some people on this board would make excuses for him.

Well did she disrespect him in some way?

DBroncos4life
02-01-2006, 10:08 PM
Well did she disrespect him in some way?
My guess is she was caught sleeping with Scott Frost.

anthonypacino
02-01-2006, 10:34 PM
TO won't be happy here, we are not a passing team, our "passing offense" is a compliment to our run game, the Eagles were a passing team. No disrespect to Plummer but his job here is to hand the ball off, pick up a few 3rd downs and no turn over the ball. Yeah last year he put up huge numbers (both good and bad) but look how much better the TEAM was when he was throwing for barely 200 yards a game and no INT's. TO would bite his tounge for the first three games or so but he won't be able to hold it together for the whole season. Eric Moulds comes from a good balanced running team. He would be a much better fit here. Besides now since Denver stepped up first to talk with him the rest of the league is rolling out the red carpet, someone is going to overpay for him and "reap" the rewards, and it won't be Denver.

ScottXray
02-01-2006, 10:38 PM
That was probably the best post in here saying why TO should not come here. I still think we should try and sign him. Shannahan does run the show, and he said if he comes here, he's going to have to play and act to their standards. That tells me, that at the first sign of trouble he's gone, or penalized or somthing of that nature. Also, as of right now I don't think we are going to get him. I thought it was just going to be between us and Dallas. But with Washington, KC, Tampa, and Miami going after him, someone is going to out bid us and he'll go where the best money situation is.

You are probably right...but TO says he wants a ring! He won't get one in KC {new coach, and maybe ONE more year that offense can do it} , or Miami, and Philly isn't gonna let TO go anywhere in their own division. I think they'll do a cheap trade and maybe even eat a chunk of his contract to keep that from happening. If TO is serious about wanting a ring to cap his career off he will be looking to come here, or another team thats close {Seattle}. If its money he's after he'll end up in KC or Miami {If they are really interested}

As far as my opinion...I don't like it...he IS a poison. No doubt he has skills that would HELP...IF he behaved. But even my wife {who isn't a FAN} said that she would lose respect for Shanahan if he brought TO in. She thinks he's a tool that only cares about TO. Shes a pretty good judge of character and her instincts about people are VERY good. :spit:

bilrob
02-02-2006, 12:13 AM
This year Denver had a good team! Won 13, Lost 4. Still it wasn't good enough to go to the Super Bowl. As the team stands, even with the natural improvement of the rookies and secondary players and a little tweeking hear and there, its still not a Chanpionship team. Plummer is still Plummer, the D line will be no better than this year and some of the players are getting older. Smith, Lynch etc. The draft, no matter how good it is will not take care of needed help emediately. So where does the Broncos go to help them over the hump? T.O. is one choice. A FA safety another. Perhaps there is presently enought WR talent to be developed on the squad. Do we need a top notch pass rusher? Of course. Depth on the OL, Yes! A lot will depend on the draft and who developed fast. The team doesn't need much, BUT a strong argument can be mayed for someone like TO.

Sassy
02-02-2006, 12:29 AM
This year Denver had a good team! Won 13, Lost 4. Still it wasn't good enough to go to the Super Bowl. As the team stands, even with the natural improvement of the rookies and secondary players and a little tweeking hear and there, its still not a Chanpionship team. Plummer is still Plummer, the D line will be no better than this year and some of the players are getting older. Smith, Lynch etc. The draft, no matter how good it is will not take care of needed help emediately. So where does the Broncos go to help them over the hump? T.O. is one choice. A FA safety another. Perhaps there is presently enought WR talent to be developed on the squad. Do we need a top notch pass rusher? Of course. Depth on the OL, Yes! A lot will depend on the draft and who developed fast. The team doesn't need much, BUT a strong argument can be mayed for someone like TO.
B.S.!
THe steelers had a good game and had been playing well but that's no excuse for the Broncos...they never gave up but they dug themselves too deep a whole just like they did in Miami in game 1. This game was a fluke...I'm not saying they should have won it...I'm just saying that team wasn't the same one that's been showing up on the field everyweek since the first San Diego win. We were one game away...and I think they can be back again this time next year.

It also sounds like we'll have most of our team next year...they have experience and they'll learn...We don't need NO STINKIN' TO! (Or Williams either for that matter!)

fontaine
02-02-2006, 03:35 AM
TO won't be happy here, we are not a passing team, our "passing offense" is a compliment to our run game, the Eagles were a passing team. No disrespect to Plummer but his job here is to hand the ball off, pick up a few 3rd downs and no turn over the ball. Yeah last year he put up huge numbers (both good and bad) but look how much better the TEAM was when he was throwing for barely 200 yards a game and no INT's. TO would bite his tounge for the first three games or so but he won't be able to hold it together for the whole season. Eric Moulds comes from a good balanced running team. He would be a much better fit here. Besides now since Denver stepped up first to talk with him the rest of the league is rolling out the red carpet, someone is going to overpay for him and "reap" the rewards, and it won't be Denver.

I agree. We're not a high powered passing team, but I can't blame Shanahan's thinking in trying to bring TO: We need a red zone threat at WR because Shanahan's admitted that we couldn't really go to three WR sets this year as effectively because the depth wasn't there. Lelie simply can't be counted on in the red zone so we need a guy there that can get seperation and use his height/strength to come up with the TD.

Ironically enough, Shanahan is going back to what he knows best: Trying to get an Eddie McCaffrey clone in TO.

But yes, Eric Moulds would be the safer option and having played with the Jills for so long and now breaking in a new QB he could be enticed to play one or two years with a team that's much closer to wining it all.

Atlas
02-02-2006, 04:15 AM
We need a red zone threat at WR because Shanahan's admitted that we couldn't really go to three WR sets this year as effectively because the depth wasn't there.

.

Denver didn't use a 3 WR set when they were down late in the game because they had no reliable 3rd WR, but very few teams run a 3 wr set in the red zone especially inside the 10. You are really stuck on this red zone thing aren't you. Denver was a top 10 team in the red zone. THat is the least of their problems. The red zone is where teams utlize their TEs and FBs and has very little to do with their 3 WR sets.

I agree that Denver needs help with their 3 WR sets but again that has nothing to do with the red zone it has to do with the fact that Adams, Watts and Devoe haven't contributed.

fontaine
02-02-2006, 04:35 AM
Denver didn't use a 3 WR set when they were down late in the game because they had no reliable 3rd WR, but very few teams run a 3 wr set in the red zone especially inside the 10. You are really stuck on this red zone thing aren't you. Denver was a top 10 team in the red zone. THat is the least of their problems. The red zone is where teams utlize their TEs and FBs and has very little to do with their 3 WR sets.


Atlas, your reasoning is way too linear. How each WR plays in a team is never isolated from other WRs, and players on offense. Each starters play (or lack of it) affects other players, how coaches gameplan and find mismatches.

Apart from Rod Smith our WRs were not effective in the red zone. You can cut it any way you like but the fact remains that our WRs sucked there apart from Rod.

You look at Denver and say they are a top 10 red zone team. Great. You're glossing over the fact that the coaches had to gameplan around the lack of production from our young WRs. No coach in the league would ever be happy with a starting WR contributing all of one TD in 16 games and one red zone TD over two years.

Want proof? Shanahan is willing to risk team chemistry in bringing in the most divisive and malcontent WR in the game in TO.

I agree that Denver needs help with their 3 WR sets but again that has nothing to do with the red zone it has to do with the fact that Adams, Watts and Devoe haven't contributed.

It's baffling how you can point out Adams, Watts, and Devoe as not having contributed in the red zone when Lelie hasn't either. None of them had a single red zone TD.

The most damning thing though is that hours after our season was over, Shanahan's first real move in the offseason was to target a WR and he felt the need was so great that he was willing to look past TO's troubled history just so we'd have some real production. That says it all where Lelie is concerned.

Atlas
02-02-2006, 05:02 AM
It's baffling how you can point out Adams, Watts, and Devoe as not having contributed in the red zone when Lelie hasn't either. None of them had a single red zone TD.

.

I never said Watts, Devoe or Adams didn't contributs in the red zone. I said they didn't contribute at all. Like I said 3 WR sets aren't used that much in the red zone by ANY team let alone the Broncos.

Would you feel better if Denver was ranked 15th in the red zone instead of in the top 10 but Lelie had 5 red zone TDs?? Your logic is all skewed.

If it's not broke don't fix it. Denver's red zone package is not broke. It's a non issue by everyone except you!

fontaine
02-02-2006, 05:10 AM
Would you feel better if Denver was ranked 15th in the red zone instead of in the top 10 but Lelie had 5 red zone TDs?? Your logic is all skewed.


It's about improvement. Our biggest margin of improvement is around the 2nd WR and TE. Our QB/RB/OL/Rod are already functioning at a high level.

If it's not broke don't fix it. Denver's red zone package is not broke. It's a non issue by everyone except you!

Hardly. It is considered a major issue by the only man's opinion that is law for the Broncos:

Mike Shanahan. The first immediate real move he's made to address a new player for the offense has been for a WR who's known to be a TD machine.

Who's snaps do you think he'll be taking if TO were to come into our offense?

fontaine
02-02-2006, 05:13 AM
You guys can spin it any way you want. But the fact remains that Shanahan's possibly disastrous interest in a guy like TO is a direct result of the lack of production from any WR not named Rod Smith.

Atlas
02-02-2006, 05:35 AM
You guys can spin it any way you want. But the fact remains that Shanahan's possibly disastrous interest in a guy like TO is a direct result of the lack of production from any WR not named Rod Smith.

I agree with that. And the fact that Owens is alot better than Rod and will probably be cheaper than Rod and that Lelie is in the last year of his contract and appears not to be a #1 WR. So what is the spin.

Let's also state that there will not be any soap opera material in Denver.
If Owens is a distraction he will be gone just like Clarett or Rice. They were gone. So I don't see how like yuou say Shanny has possible "disasterous" interest. It's a win win. If he is an A-hole. Shanny will get rid of him it's as simple as that.

What about that trouble maker Punter and that lazy ass DT Denver picked up this year?? I think they did OK. Clarett and Rice were cut and it didn't affect the lockeroom one bit.

watermock
02-02-2006, 05:43 AM
You guys can spin it any way you want. But the fact remains that Shanahan's possibly disastrous interest in a guy like TO is a direct result of the lack of production from any WR not named Rod Smith.

The Claw=T.O.

fontaine
02-02-2006, 05:53 AM
I agree with that. And the fact that Owens is alot better than Rod and will probably be cheaper than Rod and that Lelie is in the last year of his contract and appears not to be a #1 WR. So what is the spin.


That Denver is ok with Lelie's production. It's not necessarily you Atlas, but I've seen posts where Lelie is being predicted as a 1 WR etc, that it's Jake's fault he can't hit Lelie in stride on a 60 yard pass, that our OL is weak in the red zone etc.

Let's also state that there will not be any soap opera material in Denver.
If Owens is a distraction he will be gone just like Clarett or Rice. They were gone. So I don't see how like yuou say Shanny has possible "disasterous" interest. It's a win win. If he is an A-hole. Shanny will get rid of him it's as simple as that.

I agree he will be gone if he acts up. But in that case it will be disastrous because by that time guys like Moulds will be gone and we're right back to square one with no WRs except for Rod.

What about that trouble maker Punter and that lazy ass DT Denver picked up this year?? I think they did OK. Clarett and Rice were cut and it didn't affect the lockeroom one bit.

The team wasn't counting on Clarett and Rice. If we bring in TO then he'll most likely be the centerpiece of the offense and just ask the Eagles or 49ers if he affected their lockeroom?

We already have several guys on this team saying TO would be a great addition. What happens when TO calls our Heimerdinger or Dennison, or Jake. Who do those players support then?

OrangeShadow
02-02-2006, 06:08 AM
our red zone offense wasnt the problem it was the lack of pressure on the QB.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 06:36 AM
HAve you guys seen the McNAbb interviews...what a racist piece of Cuse trash...geeze...he also basically called Brian Westbrook and refuses to answer for his lack-luster play in the 4th quarter Super Bowl with the possible win in hand.

watermock
02-02-2006, 06:40 AM
This isn't about the diffrent qualities of Chunky soup or how his mom cant cook...

This is if T.O will come to play, and he always has...he's being led around like a dog by that crazy shark....who won't make a dime till he's got a new contract....this is all so obvious...

toad
02-02-2006, 06:53 AM
Did you know that Champ and D-Will combined for more TDs this year than any Bronco's WR not named Smith?

Wow -- our cornerbacks, one of which was a rookie and didn't even start the entire season, outscored all our WRs but Rod.

That obviously should point to the fact our WR corp is in trouble. You can chalk it up to Plummer, Shanny, Kubiak, whoever to me the logic said that if we could pass in the redzone more effectively then we would have done so. And those aren't just redzone TDs...they're TDs PERIOD.

watermock
02-02-2006, 06:59 AM
If not for this stone cold fact I would never want T.O. in Denver. Fact is, we need a WR bad, and the Claw or another draft choice won't really help for a year or two.

Reality sucks, but we need T.O. for the short term. I won't lose any sleep if we don't sign him, but it won't hurt us short term IMO.

Ricky Williams...why? He's one toke away and allready ran away because he was going to be suspended for a year...he only came back because he didn't want to lose his bonus...amusing that picture of the Hummmer when he is bankrupt...

I'm bankrupt...and traveling the world smoking dope...uhh...ok Ricky...

-Slap-
02-02-2006, 07:05 AM
Atlas, your reasoning is way too linear. How each WR plays in a team is never isolated from other WRs, and players on offense. Each starters play (or lack of it) affects other players, how coaches gameplan and find mismatches.

Apart from Rod Smith our WRs were not effective in the red zone. You can cut it any way you like but the fact remains that our WRs sucked there apart from Rod.

You look at Denver and say they are a top 10 red zone team. Great. You're glossing over the fact that the coaches had to gameplan around the lack of production from our young WRs. No coach in the league would ever be happy with a starting WR contributing all of one TD in 16 games and one red zone TD over two years.

Want proof? Shanahan is willing to risk team chemistry in bringing in the most divisive and malcontent WR in the game in TO.



It's baffling how you can point out Adams, Watts, and Devoe as not having contributed in the red zone when Lelie hasn't either. None of them had a single red zone TD.

The most damning thing though is that hours after our season was over, Shanahan's first real move in the offseason was to target a WR and he felt the need was so great that he was willing to look past TO's troubled history just so we'd have some real production. That says it all where Lelie is concerned.

Doesn't help that Jake can't throw a simple fade to the corner of the end zone.

watermock
02-02-2006, 07:11 AM
Doesn't help that Jake can't throw a simple fade to the corner of the end zone.

Ugg...that's what we get for allowing him to call an audible that time.

Here is the real problem with Jake...this offense is designed to create a weakness somewhere without an audible. I don't know if people know this, but in this scheme we don't need a QB flapping chicken wings like Manning.

The offense is designed to create an inherent weakness somewhere...it's the QB and skill players to know what to do without flapping feathers. That fade route was an audible. If he executed it properly it might of worked....

Right when we all thought the Jake wars were over, we find ourselves in another winter of discontent....

fontaine
02-02-2006, 07:16 AM
Doesn't help that Jake can't throw a simple fade to the corner of the end zone.

That pass is all on timing and anticaption. Something that no other guy than Rod can show consistently.

Northman
02-02-2006, 07:43 AM
B.S.!
THe steelers had a good game and had been playing well but that's no excuse for the Broncos...they never gave up but they dug themselves too deep a whole just like they did in Miami in game 1. This game was a fluke...I'm not saying they should have won it...I'm just saying that team wasn't the same one that's been showing up on the field everyweek since the first San Diego win. We were one game away...and I think they can be back again this time next year.

It also sounds like we'll have most of our team next year...they have experience and they'll learn...We don't need NO STINKIN' TO! (Or Williams either for that matter!)


I agree, the Broncos failed on many levels in the AFCC game from coaching on down to Jake's mistakes. It was easy to gameplan NE cause we had already played them but Pitt you just didnt know what they were going to come out and do. It was just a poor performance from the team but they are capable of beating that same Steeler team.

bendog
02-02-2006, 08:05 AM
black on black crime! WTF? I thought Leftwitch was white. He never runs the ball.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-eagles-mcnabbowensfeud&prov=ap&type=lgns

Morton
02-02-2006, 08:24 AM
Black on Black crime? Please. McNabb is starting to sound like someone who starts talking trash to the guy who just kicked his ass after the guy has left and can't hear or hurt him anymore.

McNabb is as easy a guy to like as Owens is easy to hate. I think Owens has some serious emotional problems that lie at the root of the enormous chip on his shoulder and the deep insecurity that he carries around with him everywhere he goes. This insecurity makes him distrust virtually everyone and embrace the " its me against the world" approach to dealing with his personal and professional relationships. If Owens feels slighted, underappraciated or disrepected in any way, he effectively loses his ****, nukes the relationship or offending source and sets forth on a warped mission of trying to restore his self-image by crapping on and attacking the person (or organization) that Mr. Persecution Complex THINKS wronged him. He also uses his insecurity as a motivational tool that fuel his conditioning and on field performances so he can "show
them " . He cannot accept criticism of any kind without irrationally taking it way too personally. His problems don't manifest themselves in the form of criminal behavior or drug addictions but he's a deeply disturbed individual nonetheless. Drew Rosenhass is also an enabler of the worst sort who contributed to making Owens an even greater enemy of himself and his own best interests.

I don't believe he's all bad. He's just an emotional cripple who is surrounded by syncophants (as opposed to true friends) who are unwilling to tell him the truths he needs to hear. Despite all this, I think he learned some valuable lessons this past season and all emotional problems aside, Owens is not a complete idiot. He clearly recognizes the limits of his behavior now and this will only be further confirmed in the language of the next contract he signs.

McNabb, on the other hand, is possibly not entirely blameless when it comes to the division inside the team. After reading the interview above, I don't really see any justifiable explanation for his not standing up to Owens (in the locker room at least) after he was thrown under the bus repeatedly by the wideout. By "taking it" as he chose to do, he was perceived by many (myself included) as taking the high road in an unresolvable situation but was it really unresolvable? There were other teammates who confirmed that McNabb was completely gassed and puking his guts out in the final 5 minutes or so of the Superbowl which McNabb still refuses to admit for some reason. As the franchise QB and acknowledged leader of the Eagles, was it not McNabb's responsibility to face Owens as well as gather the team together to confront and resolve the conflicts with Owens when they first began to emerge? I think so, and by not doing so I think he conveyed the impression to some of his teammates that he was soft and that perhaps Owens was right about certain things.
Owens, desperate to prove to the world the the Eagles really did need him to win the Superbowl, defied medical logic in his comeback from a serious injury and regardless of his motivations for doing so, he delivered a fine performance against the Pats despite lacking his usual speed and agility. McNabb on the other hand was clearly out of breath and couldn't gather himself during crunch time.

At the time, I thought that maybe McNabb had suffered a concussion but whatever the problem was, he probably should not have been in the game at that point. I do know that McNabb suffered from late game fatigue and puking problems when he was at Syracuse. Whatever,.. none of this justifies Owens' behavior but the ensuing division within the team may have been started by Owens but McNabb may have compounded it in that he has never come clean on what happened and I strongly suspect his unwllingness or inability to do this is part of the reason why he has never stood up to Owens as he should have done. Its plain to see that numerous of his teammates were disturbed by this failure of leadership (his slience) which compounded the split inside the team and was manifested by some of the teams' top players publicly stating that they would welcome the return of Owens.

I think its interesting now to look back at the contrast in leadership styles between Favre and McNabb when their respective number one WRs and Rosenf*ck clients (Walker and Owens) proclaimed that they would be training camp holdouts until their contracts were renegotiated. I don't remember McNabb saying anything but Favre spoke out publicly against the move and flatly stated that Walker "needed" to be in camp. Walker showed up making nice (although what happened to him after kind of justfies the logic of trying to re-do non-guaranteed contracts which can leave an injured player high and dry).

Walker and Owens are two different people of course but no one has ever questioned Favre's toughness and leadership qualities.

So while I can't say for sure , I'm beginning to believe that McNabb, great guy that he is, is at least partly responsible for the loss of team unity in Philly because he is perceived by some as being soft for a.) not being able to stand up to Owens, b.) not being able or willing to come clean on what happened at the Superbowl, c.) remaining mum through all the controversy and basically hiding behind the organization's skirt while THEY dealt with the Owens problem, and d.) possibly being unable to ever publicly or privately confront Owens in an effort to resolve the problems and unify the team in the face of Owens' Superbowl related comments (and those that followed) because he knew and the team knew that Owens was telling the truth but neither McNabb or the Eagles organization were willing to admit it.

broncofan
02-02-2006, 08:44 AM
What I've learned from McNabb's interview is that we as a society are only allowed to compare black players to black players and white players to white players. He considers it racism and condemns it yet is creating a void by saying he wouldn't be offended if TO said McNair, Leftwich, Culpepper, Brooks, Vick, etc., would be leading the Eagles to a successful season. The amazing thing is, Micheal Irvin said it, not TO. Last I checked, Micheal Irvin was black.

All of a sudden, the man who never makes excuses is scraping for whatever BS he can find. Get the **** outta here...I thought McNabb was bigger than this. I lost a lot of respect for that man while watching this interview.

azbroncfan
02-02-2006, 08:48 AM
Well if they can connect black on black hate crime to mcnabb and TO catfight then the whole race card is reaching an all time low and losing credibility. Mcnabb lost alot of respect by me with that stupid interview, he should of said something at the time instead of waiting till now if he was going to say something.

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 08:54 AM
This all goes back to the Rush Limbaugh deal back in 2003. For those who have forgotten, he joined the ESPN pregame show with the idea of drumming up controversy and ratings. In one of his first segments, he stated that McNabb was an "overrated" QB and that this was the result of the evil liberal media wanting to show that a black QB could perform as well as anyone.

The fact is that McNabb's passer rating for the previous couple of years was not that great. And, it could be argued that most of the Eagles regular season success was due to their defense. Most people realized, though, that the main thing holding back the Eagles passing game was the receiving corps - - not the QB.

This was almost instantly shown to be the case, as Owens made his debut for the Eagles, and McNabb's stats skyrocketed.

Specifically, here are McNabb's ratings, pre and post-Owens.

98-99 60.1
99-00 77.8
00-01 84.3
01-02 86.9
02-03 79.6

03-04 104.7

There is no question that Owens was a huge improvement to the Eagles receiving corps, and that McNabb benefitted from it, just like any other good QB.

But the upturn in McNabb's stats was sort used as an "I told you so" by his supporters. He got an increased amount of very positive press (including financially beneficial endorsement deals).

I think this is where T.O.'s jealousy started. He was not getting the same amount of press and he was getting very few endorsement deals. (Probably because he was an unpopular guy to start with after all the crap in SF.)

Then you move ahead to the playoffs that year. Owens got hurt (by a horsecollar tackle) vs. Dallas and was expected to miss the rest of the season. The question was repeatedly posed to McNabb how far the Eagles could go without T.O. Just like any other responsible QB would do, he expressed confidence in his other receivers (regardless of whether he really felt that way.) But the media stage was set ... now we would see just how much of McNabb's success was due to McNabb, and how much was due to his surrounding cast.

He actually performed very well in both playoff games, without Owens, putting up ratings around 111.0 in each. Which got even more positive press.

Owens came back for the Super Bowl and had an outstanding game. McNabb had a mediocre game (due in large part to the Pats defense)

It was after that that Owens made it clear he wanted a raise (because Philly had, to a certain extent, been the beneficiary of the screw-up by Owens' previous agent.)

At this point, Owens made the comment about McNabb getting tired in the SB. Maybe that came out of the blue. Maybe it was pure jealousy. Maybe Owens had expected McNabb to step up for him in the media or in his contract negotiations earlier. Who knows?

But that had to hurt McNabb badly. Losing a SB is a pretty painful experience to start with, and getting your nose rubbed in it is even worse.

That's where I think the big conflict between those two started and as time went n it became more and more clear that McNabb was not going to do anything to help Owens in his contract negotiations.

It probably really POd Owens later on to see McNabb getting all the press kudos for playing with the groin injury when his own play in the super bowl (while injured) was sort of forgotten about - - at least by the media. And certainly unrewarded by the Philadelphia management.

I don't think Owens had a "black on black" crime in mind when he made the Favre comment. I think he was simply using Favre as an example of a QB who he honestly believed was better than McNabb.

bendog
02-02-2006, 09:07 AM
That's a helluva a good post, but you left out the "he doesn't play black enough" comment by the ncaap guy.

Broncoman13
02-02-2006, 09:16 AM
That's a helluva a good post, but you left out the "he doesn't play black enough" comment by the ncaap guy.

Or the "He'll never be black as me" comment by Michael Irvin.

Elway 4 Life
02-02-2006, 09:20 AM
I still think that there is more to the story. McNabb has been the beatin QB that was unjustly chastised by a very bad apple in TO. Now he opens his big mouth and loses all sorts of credibility. I'm in no way condoning TO's sh1tty attitude but I think he has gotten a worse wrap than deserved. I in know way think that the whole philly drama was a one way street with TO doing all wrong. I think the philly organization is guilty of something it just wasnt made public. I'm all for TO in a bronco uniform. I say we give him a chance.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 09:22 AM
What I've learned from McNabb's interview is that we as a society are only allowed to compare black players to black players and white players to white players. He considers it racism and condemns it yet is creating a void by saying he wouldn't be offended if TO said McNair, Leftwich, Culpepper, Brooks, Vick, etc., would be leading the Eagles to a successful season. The amazing thing is, Micheal Irvin said it, not TO. Last I checked, Micheal Irvin was black.

All of a sudden, the man who never makes excuses is scraping for whatever BS he can find. Get the **** outta here...I thought McNabb was bigger than this. I lost a lot of respect for that man while watching this interview.


I'm in the same boat...I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

cousinal11
02-02-2006, 09:25 AM
TD to INT ratio

8 7
21 13
25 12
17 6
16 11
31 8 (w/ T.O.)
16 9 (including 2 games T.O. missed which he threw 2 TD's and 1 "costly" pick)

Based on these stats you can see his best year as a passing quarterback statistically was 2004 w/ T.O. I think the Eagles will miss T.O. more than they think based on the fact that they won 1 game after he was suspended and their defense isn't getting younger. Sure they have some young corners but Dawkins, Trotter, etc. are getting up there in age. You can understand now why they didn't want T.O. to go, they knew he would help them reach the ultimate goal. I have never been a fan of McNabb's. Don't like the way he plays in crunch time, and am unbelievably sick of seeing him and his mom on TV all the time.

watermock
02-02-2006, 09:26 AM
It was a poor choice, but the guy took alot of abuse and is just letting off some steam. He took a foot off his rope, but T.O. is being hung by one.

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 09:26 AM
You certainly had a bunch of people who jumped on board all of that, but I guess my point is this.

For whatever reason, Owens obviously expected McNabb to help him with his contract.

No one is ever going to know what those two guys said or did not say to one another about this back in the summer & fall of 2003. Could be that McNabb did indicate to Owens that he'd help him out at season's end. Could be that it was just implied. Owens must have perceived the situation that way. I don't know why he'd otherwise be calling McNabb a "hypocrite."

Obviously, he made a mistake in relying on another player to step up for him. No question that this put McNabb in a tough situation, since Philly had all sorts of guys wanting new deals, and was, at the same time, so close to the big prize. Probably, he should have just left it up to his agent. And instead of making the big scene at practice he should have just held out. Holdouts are much more quickly forgiven in this league than prima donnas. But Owens has never been a good businessman. And relying on Michael Irvin for advice is pretty much the proof of that.

Mile High Shack
02-02-2006, 09:28 AM
I'm in the same boat...I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

it made no sense to me

McNabb seems to be showing why there was a rift in the TO/McNabb saga

maybe it wasn't all TO

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 09:31 AM
For the record Irvin made the Favre comment.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 09:33 AM
Every QB's stats went through the roof in 04 because of the contact enforcment. You have to factor that in as well.

watermock
02-02-2006, 09:34 AM
McNabb did break down late in the SB, but it was exaustion...maybe nerves....he was trying...to diss him isn't fair IMO. You simply don't diss your teammates. That turf is for the coaches behind closed doors and the waiver wire.

Noone on the Broncos pointed fingers...altho there were some clear goats...overall, the Pitt fans were gracious winners...only a couple tried to come in and rub our noses in our hour of sorrow. That's what a fraternity of fans is all about and why we hate the Raiders. And why discussion of an aging WR named T.O. goes against our grain. Same with Ricky...I don't care if he tokes, or anyone else...but it's not a highly motivational drug on game day, and well...it's against the rules...rules are rules...

I can handle a few head cases, but bringing in both T.O. and Ricky reeks of desperation.

Broncoman13
02-02-2006, 09:35 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking a 31:8 TD:INT ratio probably had something to do with that... especially when you consider that 14 of those went TO's way!

Broncoman13
02-02-2006, 09:36 AM
Every QB's stats went through the roof in 04 because of the contact enforcment. You have to factor that in as well.


Are you referring to Pay-a-ton's 49 TD's or Jake's INTs?

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 09:41 AM
it made no sense to me

McNabb seems to be showing why there was a rift in the TO/McNabb saga

maybe it wasn't all TO

Of course McNabb is to blame...so it TO and Reid and everybody...this whole thing represents a failure to communicate.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 09:42 AM
Are you referring to Pay-a-ton's 49 TD's or Jake's INTs?

Look at the numbers of just about any QB compared to the year before and you'll see significant changes in their output in 04.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 09:46 AM
Damn...even the Chiefs are questioning McNabb...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=134980&page=4&pp=15

Mile High Shack
02-02-2006, 09:48 AM
Of course McNabb is to blame...so it TO and Reid and everybody...this whole thing represents a failure to communicate.

......see what we have here is...a failure...communicate
...now some men, you just can't reach....
.......take what we had here today.......which is the way he wants it...soooo, he get's it
......I don't like it anymore than you.....

anyway
it's amazing it worked for a year even

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 09:49 AM
McNabb did break down late in the SB, but it was exaustion...maybe nerves....he was trying...to diss him isn't fair IMO. You simply don't diss your teammates. That turf is for the coaches behind closed doors and the waiver wire.
....


TO definitely has a history of making his grievances public, and there is no doubt that this can be a disruptve factor. Especially when you have people in the media who love to toss fuel on the fire in those kinds of situations.

Maybe he's learned his lesson, maybe not.

On the other hand, with the possible exception of John Lynch, almost none of the Broonco players trust the media with the time of day.

bronco_diesel
02-02-2006, 09:52 AM
old dude - good posts.

i just read the article on espn where McNabb opens up...i just got the impression that it wasn't all TO.

no doubt that TO made some poor decisions, but i see the same for McNabb.

point and case-

"He came back, 'Hey, I was open, throw the ball!' Me being into the game, [I said] 'Hey, get in the huddle man.' In different words, obviously. He continued to talk about how he was open, throw the ball. And it [led] to me using some language that's really not suitable for the kids. But I'm into the game. I'm running the huddle. This is my show. I'm going to see you a lot of plays and some plays I won't see you. That led to us talking in the locker room. I don't argue. I feel as men we can talk. Voices are going to get raised. But we can talk as men and when the conversation is over we understand each other.

"I didn't get tired [in the Super Bowl]. I took a couple of hits," McNabb said in response to one of T.O.'s famous jabs.
"I called him a couple of days later just to get back on the same page. I just elaborated to him, 'Hey, if we're going to continue to do this, we're not going anywhere. We have to be on the same page. I brought you here for a reason, for people to understand the chemistry that we have and the things we can do, which will lead us to winning a Super Bowl.'

this just reeks of silly to me...and letting pride get in the way. why not just say, sorry TO, i missed you...lets get coach to call it again and i will hit you next time...it would take just 2 seconds, and then call the next play - but he takes the ownership card shouts out obscenities - that's not very respectful either. i agree it is his huddle to run...but i look at the great qb's and they would have been adult about it.

the next issue i have with McNabb is taking the black on black thing- TO shoud not have said that...but c'mon - farve is a great qb regardless of color...there is no black thing there. shame on McNabb for even thinking that.

i also see where McNabb is a hypocrite. how many times in this article did he mention that TO should just man up and talk to him face to face? so what does McNabb do? he calls a team meeting and basically says to the team what he should be telling TO in private.

neither of these guys handled this like men...but now that i have read McNabb's side, i am convinced TO is not the only one to blame.

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-02-2006, 09:54 AM
TO has a house in Atlanta. Rosenhaus lives in Miami.

Why were they talking to Denver first and not the Falcons or Dolphins?

Elway 4 Life
02-02-2006, 10:21 AM
TO has a house in Atlanta. Rosenhaus lives in Miami.

Why were they talking to Denver first and not the Falcons or Dolphins?
He sold his house in atlanta.

~Crash~
02-02-2006, 10:21 AM
To and vick lol

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 10:24 AM
TO doesn't want to play with Vick...he just doesn't throw up the ball that much.

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 10:36 AM
Redskins out of the Owens market:

Redskins vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato denied Internet and broadcast reports Wednesday linking the team to Terrell Owens. "Our head coach [Joe Gibbs] said it before," Cerrato said. "We think he's an outstanding player, but he just doesn't fit us."
-- Washington Post

In other developments, rumors are that Denver would only trade for Ricky Williams if they are unable to get Owens:

The Broncos have had at least two internal discussions about acquiring Dolphins running back Ricky Williams, but the teams have not talked about a deal. The Denver Post, citing two NFL sources, reported this week that coach Mike Shanahan might consider trading for Williams but likely only if the team does not trade for receiver Terrell Owens.
-- Miami Herald

Herm Edwards very interested in Owens:

For those who gasped when they found out the Chiefs were interested in talking to Terrell Owens, or wondered whether Kansas City was feigning interest to drive up the price on AFC rival Denver, the answer came Wednesday in Herm Edwards' eyes. Edwards said a meeting between Terrell Owens and the Chiefs may happen soon.
-- Kansas City Star

all from:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/02/02/truth.rumors.nfl/

bendog
02-02-2006, 10:43 AM
too bad, sean taylor might have shot him

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 10:47 AM
"May happen soon."...yeah..that sounds like legit interest.

watermock
02-02-2006, 10:47 AM
This thread is racking up posts faster than mock!

There isn't much more that can possibly be said. Lots of incentives, behavior clauses...we still draft a WR and God, give me Veron Davis and a true speed rusher for passing downs.

Garcia Bronco
02-02-2006, 10:51 AM
This thread is racking up posts faster than mock!

There isn't much more that can possibly be said. Lots of incentives, behavior clauses...we still draft a WR and God, give me Veron Davis and a true speed rusher for passing downs.

That'll happen when people use one thread for the same general topic.

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 10:54 AM
I'll shut up for awhile now. I have to get to work, anyway.

DBroncos4life
02-02-2006, 11:22 AM
No Owens, Yes to Williams.

ashleyisagirlsname
02-02-2006, 11:26 AM
i think that terrel owens is a baby and he might be an all star but he wont commit to the team

12th man
02-02-2006, 11:45 AM
Redskins out of the Owens market:

Redskins vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato denied Internet and broadcast reports Wednesday linking the team to Terrell Owens. "Our head coach [Joe Gibbs] said it before," Cerrato said. "We think he's an outstanding player, but he just doesn't fit us."
-- Washington Post

In other developments, rumors are that Denver would only trade for Ricky Williams if they are unable to get Owens:

The Broncos have had at least two internal discussions about acquiring Dolphins running back Ricky Williams, but the teams have not talked about a deal. The Denver Post, citing two NFL sources, reported this week that coach Mike Shanahan might consider trading for Williams but likely only if the team does not trade for receiver Terrell Owens.
-- Miami Herald

Herm Edwards very interested in Owens:

For those who gasped when they found out the Chiefs were interested in talking to Terrell Owens, or wondered whether Kansas City was feigning interest to drive up the price on AFC rival Denver, the answer came Wednesday in Herm Edwards' eyes. Edwards said a meeting between Terrell Owens and the Chiefs may happen soon.
-- Kansas City Star

all from:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/02/02/truth.rumors.nfl/
Fckn cheifs. I hope we get TO to rip the defense and dbs coached by Gibbs apart. And if the cheifs get him I hope he ruins them just like he did in Sanfran and Philly.

epa86b@netzero
02-02-2006, 11:48 AM
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/13769200.htm
(you need to register to view)

Douglas questions McNabb's leadership skills
By Marc NarducciInquirer Staff Writer

Former Eagles defensive end Hugh Douglas is employed as the team's ambassador, but his comments yesterday on WIP-AM (610) were far from diplomatic.
Speaking on the station's morning show, Douglas spread the blame for the team's disappointing 6-10 season, but he specifically questioned the leadership of quarterback Donovan McNabb.
"The thing that Donovan needs - it's been proven, especially this year - he needs other people to lead," Douglas said. "He's not a leader. He doesn't want to lead. He is the leader on the field as a quarterback; he isn't a team leader. He needs a good supporting cast."
Contacted last night, the 34-year-old Douglas modified the statement about McNabb, but only slightly.
"In order to be a leader, you have to be in people's face; if that is what you think, he isn't that guy," Douglas said. "Donovan will lead on the football field, and if you need him to give a Vince Lombardi speech, he won't."
Douglas said that he and McNabb talked yesterday after the radio show and that the Eagles quarterback was fine with what Douglas said when he explained the context.
McNabb was not available for comment.
Douglas was waived by the team in September and hired for his ambassador role. He also talked on the broadcast about the problems the Eagles' perceived lack of leadership caused for coach Andy Reid.
"Big Red [Reid] thought he had a bunch of leaders," Douglas said. "When he realized [he didn't], it was too late."
Douglas suggested on the show that some radical changes would be needed to address the leadership issue.
"At some point, [Reid] is going to have to go in that locker room and make it like Beirut again, to be totally honest," Douglas said. "It's obvious right now that the guys who he thinks are leaders aren't his leaders, and the young guys aren't ready to lead."
Douglas did not back away from that statement last night, saying that he was going to tell the truth, regardless of whether he was a team employee.
"What kind of person would I be to tell fans that everything is fine?" Douglas said. "I don't think what I said was that bad."
Eagles cornerback Sheldon Brown disagreed with Douglas' assessment.
"To me, that is disrespecting guys he played with," Brown said last night. "How can you say guys like Brian Dawkins or Jon Runyan aren't leaders? It's a comment that doesn't speak fairly to guys we have in the locker room, and I think that is just radio talk.
"I don't care what Hugh says," Brown said. "Quite frankly, the guys I am playing with I trust, and I trust the leaders we have. I am around them every day, and Hugh isn't around them every day."
Douglas also said he told McNabb he should not have resumed his feud with Terrell Owens in the media over the last two days.
Eagles president Joe Banner was unavailable for comment yesterday. Derek Boyko, the Eagles' director of media services, defended Douglas, but he would not comment directly on Douglas' statements.
"Hugh Douglas goes on the radio a lot and defends our players and team and cleans up a lot of the misnomers that are out there," Boyko said.
Brown and Douglas have at least some common ground. Both feel that the only way to move forward is to let go of this season.
"Donovan is still making too big a deal out of this," Brown said. "We come back, win games and get the job done, then the whole T.O. saga is done."

-Slap-
02-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Hugh knows the key to veteran leadership is getting beaten up by a wide receiver.

watermock
02-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Isn't it time for this dimwit to go away?

He's an ambassador and first picks a fight with T.O. when he was getting medical treatment, now he's after McNabb?

I didn't know they actually pay this guy...it's like taking Curtis LeMay to United Nations peace negotiations.

Good God...he's even taking shots at Reid.

They pay this guy? We need to go in like it's Beruit? What whole deal worked out pretty well...Clinton slithered out of there with a bloody nose...yeah that's bringing it Hugh...

Odysseus
02-02-2006, 11:58 AM
Temptation.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/MNFSheridan1.jpg

This post explains anything related to T.O. Too funny! Hilarious!

Bronco_Beerslug
02-02-2006, 12:00 PM
"Hugh Douglas goes on the radio a lot and defends our players and team and cleans up a lot of the misnomers that are out there," Boyko said.

Sounds like Douglas has to perform weekly mop up duty there in Philly.

epa86b@netzero
02-02-2006, 12:02 PM
Hugh knows the key to veteran leadership is getting beaten up by a wide receiver.

I find it ironic that the incident with him was the final straw. Now he is calling McNabb, Eagle players, and Reid out for the TO disaster.

It just seems like there is more to the story then just crazy as TO.

watermock
02-02-2006, 12:05 PM
Total Circus.

Now Hugh, No You...Who's at first base?

This moron should be a peacemaker if he's an "Ambassador"...he acts more like Patton...

He's called out T.O....now McNabb and even Reid, a gentle giant...it's become absurd....

Who next, the Geico lizard?

yavoon
02-02-2006, 12:06 PM
maybe resigning him wasn't the most brilliant move

Bronx33
02-02-2006, 12:07 PM
Well the fire in philly is still burning...

watermock
02-02-2006, 12:12 PM
Douglas isn't even on the team...he's some sort of ambassador....

Calling out all three sides is more like a troublemaker to me.

He should of played the peacemaker...it might of been hard, but that's what an ambassador has to do...they don't put stars on ambassadors....

This whole thing is a circus...HELL WE HAVE ALLREADY HAD A 1000 POST CIRCUS HERE AND HE'S NOT EVEN SIGNED

Honestly, I can usually read things, but this is baffling...

What gave him the right to march in and start a fight with T.O. when a guy was working on that ankle?

And today, he reverses on the highway and gets on Reid and McNabb...

Sounds more like a collosal moron than an ambassador....

Boobs McGee
02-02-2006, 12:28 PM
http://www.buy4cheap.biz/signs/signs/gay-slave/?text=TO+Ain%27t+Comin+to+Denver%2C+he+doesn%27t+l ike+Gay+Coloradans&fontsize=14&move=&font=chalk&allow=446480

gadlaw
02-02-2006, 12:31 PM
Was outside a minute ago. Someone said TO had signed with the Broncos. A cold evil chill went up my spine. It cannot be. Then I look here and no word so it was only a nasty rumor spread by some evil angry Cleveland fan.

bendog
02-02-2006, 01:14 PM
This post explains anything related to T.O. Too funny! Hilarious!
which one of the desperate housewives is that? It actually really looks like the really slutty one (not that that's a bad thing) in sex and the city.... Miranda. I miss that show.

Bob's your Information Minister
02-02-2006, 01:36 PM
And Plummer not being able to get him the ball downfield.

Last year 31 of his 47 catches were passes thrown 1-10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

In 2004 51 of his 77 catches were passes thrown 1-10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

I think Plummer is pretty good at throwing the short stuff. T.O. would rack up the YAC in Denver.

DBroncos4life
02-02-2006, 01:38 PM
merge it

~Crash~
02-02-2006, 01:39 PM
wow and i mean that in good way...are you a closet bronco fan

-Slap-
02-02-2006, 01:41 PM
no doubt that TO made some poor decisions, but i see the same for McNabb.

point and case-

"He came back, 'Hey, I was open, throw the ball!' Me being into the game, [I said] 'Hey, get in the huddle man.' In different words, obviously. He continued to talk about how he was open, throw the ball. And it [led] to me using some language that's really not suitable for the kids. But I'm into the game. I'm running the huddle. This is my show. I'm going to see you a lot of plays and some plays I won't see you. That led to us talking in the locker room. I don't argue. I feel as men we can talk. Voices are going to get raised. But we can talk as men and when the conversation is over we understand each other.


You're going to criticize a quarterback for trying to take charge in the huddle?

I guess all those times John told Vance to "shut the **** up", when he whined about being open, were examples of poor leadership on his part.

-Slap-
02-02-2006, 01:43 PM
Actually, I hadn't even got to this part of your post:

this just reeks of silly to me...and letting pride get in the way. why not just say, sorry TO, i missed you...lets get coach to call it again and i will hit you next time...it would take just 2 seconds, and then call the next play - but he takes the ownership card shouts out obscenities - that's not very respectful either. i agree it is his huddle to run...but i look at the great qb's and they would have been adult about it.

I'm truly speechless.

BroncoInferno
02-02-2006, 01:47 PM
You're going to criticize a quarterback for trying to take charge in the huddle?

I guess all those times John told Vance to "shut the **** up", when he whined about being open, were examples of poor leadership on his part.

Too bad for Philly that McNabb couldn't take control of the huddle in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl; he was too busy dry heaving.

DBroncos4life
02-02-2006, 01:48 PM
You're going to criticize a quarterback for trying to take charge in the huddle?

I guess all those times John told Vance to "shut the **** up", when he whined about being open, were examples of poor leadership on his part.
Slap when are you going to understand that QBs don't run the show, its guys like Owens that call the plays. ^5

ND Bronco Fan
02-02-2006, 01:50 PM
wow and i mean that in good way...are you a closet bronco fan


thanks, that actually made me laugh, sounded like something i would say

Lidderer
02-02-2006, 01:51 PM
I question which is the more 'adult' response to a situation:

a) showcasing leadership by not giving way to the demands of your other players and just listening to your own gut(which gut, btw, seemed to be suggesting "oh my god no more!" during a certain key super bowl drive).

b) understanding that outside of a marginal todd pinkston you have pretty much 0 weapons on offense and hey maybe your recent success is almost solely the result of a particular WR, in which case maybe it's not a bad idea to just listen to the guy who has taken your game to the next level, suck up your desire to maintain an already suspect 'leader' label, and throw him the ball when he wants the ball.

There is a fine line between leadership and sinkingship.

DBroncos4life
02-02-2006, 01:54 PM
I question which is the more 'adult' response to a situation:

a) showcasing leadership by not giving way to the demands of your other players and just listening to your own gut(which gut, btw, seemed to be suggesting "oh my god no more!" during a certain key super bowl drive).

b) understanding that outside of a marginal todd pinkston you have pretty much 0 weapons on offense and hey maybe your recent success is almost solely the result of a particular WR, in which case maybe it's not a bad idea to just listen to the guy who has taken your game to the next level, suck up your desire to maintain an already suspect 'leader' label, and throw him the ball when he wants the ball.

There is a fine line between leadership and sinkingship.
Owens caused the ship to sink. I don't care if you are open or not, when the QB is in the huddle shut the **** up. Its his job to talk then not yours.

DBroncos4life
02-02-2006, 01:58 PM
I bet you anything if Owens tried that here our Oline would tell him to shut the **** up and so would Smith, Anderson, Putz and Plummer would too. He would get his ass kicked right then and there.

Lidderer
02-02-2006, 01:59 PM
Owens caused the ship to sink. I don't care if you are open or not, when the QB is in the huddle shut the **** up. Its his job to talk then not yours.


This is sort of the point though, or at least where the 'question' arises, no?

General rules[always shhh when in the huddle unless you're a qb] yield general results, and when your status as Field General has been significantly buoyed by the addition of one player[T.O.], maybe taking his needs into consideration would be wiser than reverting back to your old generic production. Generally speaking, of course.

It's a grey situation at any rate, and probably shouldn't be swiped aside by mentions of golden rules and junk like that.

Lidderer
02-02-2006, 02:04 PM
I bet you anything if Owens tried that here our Oline would tell him to shut the **** up and so would Smith, Anderson, Putz and Plummer would too. He would get his ass kicked right then and there.


Well first of all: no, that wouldn't happen.

second of all: we have other weapons and he'll have to learn that, so it's a different situation in many regards.

third: Plummer dealt with a headcase in david boston back in 2000[where boston racked up mucho yardage a la T.O.], so he's got experience with that and would be able to take such actions with a grain of salt. This raises the point of 'adult' behaviour again: is it not a more mature method to understand the greater good a loud-mouthed, beligerent WR brings to the team and in doing so overlook those negative adjectives? Why can't this be done? Bucking to some 'unwritten code' of "qb is in charge" and not taking any guff strikes me as an even pettier, and less 'adult', sensitivity.

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 02:18 PM
Stats?

http://www.nysun.com/article/26918

BroncoInferno
02-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Owens caused the ship to sink.

You don't think a massive number of injuries to key players might not have sprung the leak on the Eagles season rather than anything TO said?

BroncoInferno
02-02-2006, 02:21 PM
a) showcasing leadership by not giving way to the demands of your other players and just listening to your own gut(which gut, btw, seemed to be suggesting "oh my god no more!" during a certain key super bowl drive).

LOL

scorpio
02-02-2006, 02:26 PM
The best part about all this is still reading the Planet. When the TO/Denver rumors started their were 20 pages of "Ha Ha! T.O. is a cancer! He'll destroy the Donkeys! Bwahahahahaha!"

Now that there's a KC rumor, it's nothing but "yeah man, sweet! We have to get it done! Herm can straighten him out!"



Stupid hillbillies.

OrangeShadow
02-02-2006, 02:33 PM
that was my exact point in my thread

Morton
02-02-2006, 02:38 PM
I question which is the more 'adult' response to a situation:

a) showcasing leadership by not giving way to the demands of your other players and just listening to your own gut(which gut, btw, seemed to be suggesting "oh my god no more!" during a certain key super bowl drive).

b) understanding that outside of a marginal todd pinkston you have pretty much 0 weapons on offense and hey maybe your recent success is almost solely the result of a particular WR, in which case maybe it's not a bad idea to just listen to the guy who has taken your game to the next level, suck up your desire to maintain an already suspect 'leader' label, and throw him the ball when he wants the ball.

There is a fine line between leadership and sinkingship.

I like your thinking....

Kaylore
02-02-2006, 02:40 PM
This thread is too long.

bronco_diesel
02-02-2006, 02:43 PM
You're going to criticize a quarterback for trying to take charge in the huddle?

I guess all those times John told Vance to "shut the **** up", when he whined about being open, were examples of poor leadership on his part.

i'll never criticize a qb for taking charge in the huddle...i am critisizing mcnabb for how to tried to take charge.

we all know TO is a problem child. we all know he is pretty freakin good on the field.

leadership is not all about jumping all over someone or telling them to shut up. leadership is much much more - sometimes it is listening or being able to recognize how to react with someone.

TO is a beast on the field. mcnabb should have recognized who he was dealing with...and should have realized that jumping all over TO is not going to help anything at all.

vance and TO are vastly different, as are elway and mcnabb. no comparison...but giving into the argument, i think elway would have even reacted differently with TO.

Crushaholic
02-02-2006, 02:49 PM
merge it

Bob made this thread. Delete it.;D

-Slap-
02-02-2006, 02:54 PM
Well first of all: no, that wouldn't happen.

second of all: we have other weapons and he'll have to learn that, so it's a different situation in many regards.

third: Plummer dealt with a headcase in david boston back in 2000[where boston racked up mucho yardage a la T.O.], so he's got experience with that and would be able to take such actions with a grain of salt. This raises the point of 'adult' behaviour again: is it not a more mature method to understand the greater good a loud-mouthed, beligerent WR brings to the team and in doing so overlook those negative adjectives? Why can't this be done? Bucking to some 'unwritten code' of "qb is in charge" and not taking any guff strikes me as an even pettier, and less 'adult', sensitivity.

Yeah, that awesome Plummer/Boston paradigm led the Cardinals to 3-13, 7-9 and 5-11 records. I guess by leadership, you mean leading your team into last place.

bronco militia
02-02-2006, 02:57 PM
The best part about all this is still reading the Planet. When the TO/Denver rumors started their were 20 pages of "Ha Ha! T.O. is a cancer! He'll destroy the Donkeys! Bwahahahahaha!"

Now that there's a KC rumor, it's nothing but "yeah man, sweet! We have to get it done! Herm can straighten him out!"



Stupid hillbillies.

huh? us or them?

;D

Morton
02-02-2006, 02:58 PM
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/13769200.htm
(you need to register to view)

Douglas questions McNabb's leadership skills
By Marc NarducciInquirer Staff Writer

Former Eagles defensive end Hugh Douglas is employed as the team's ambassador, but his comments yesterday on WIP-AM (610) were far from diplomatic.
Speaking on the station's morning show, Douglas spread the blame for the team's disappointing 6-10 season, but he specifically questioned the leadership of quarterback Donovan McNabb.
"The thing that Donovan needs - it's been proven, especially this year - he needs other people to lead," Douglas said. "He's not a leader. He doesn't want to lead. He is the leader on the field as a quarterback; he isn't a team leader. He needs a good supporting cast."
Contacted last night, the 34-year-old Douglas modified the statement about McNabb, but only slightly.
"In order to be a leader, you have to be in people's face; if that is what you think, he isn't that guy," Douglas said. "Donovan will lead on the football field, and if you need him to give a Vince Lombardi speech, he won't."
Douglas said that he and McNabb talked yesterday after the radio show and that the Eagles quarterback was fine with what Douglas said when he explained the context.
McNabb was not available for comment.
Douglas was waived by the team in September and hired for his ambassador role. He also talked on the broadcast about the problems the Eagles' perceived lack of leadership caused for coach Andy Reid.
"Big Red [Reid] thought he had a bunch of leaders," Douglas said. "When he realized [he didn't], it was too late."
Douglas suggested on the show that some radical changes would be needed to address the leadership issue.
"At some point, [Reid] is going to have to go in that locker room and make it like Beirut again, to be totally honest," Douglas said. "It's obvious right now that the guys who he thinks are leaders aren't his leaders, and the young guys aren't ready to lead."
Douglas did not back away from that statement last night, saying that he was going to tell the truth, regardless of whether he was a team employee.
"What kind of person would I be to tell fans that everything is fine?" Douglas said. "I don't think what I said was that bad."
Eagles cornerback Sheldon Brown disagreed with Douglas' assessment.
"To me, that is disrespecting guys he played with," Brown said last night. "How can you say guys like Brian Dawkins or Jon Runyan aren't leaders? It's a comment that doesn't speak fairly to guys we have in the locker room, and I think that is just radio talk.
"I don't care what Hugh says," Brown said. "Quite frankly, the guys I am playing with I trust, and I trust the leaders we have. I am around them every day, and Hugh isn't around them every day."
Douglas also said he told McNabb he should not have resumed his feud with Terrell Owens in the media over the last two days.
Eagles president Joe Banner was unavailable for comment yesterday. Derek Boyko, the Eagles' director of media services, defended Douglas, but he would not comment directly on Douglas' statements.
"Hugh Douglas goes on the radio a lot and defends our players and team and cleans up a lot of the misnomers that are out there," Boyko said.
Brown and Douglas have at least some common ground. Both feel that the only way to move forward is to let go of this season.
"Donovan is still making too big a deal out of this," Brown said. "We come back, win games and get the job done, then the whole T.O. saga is done."


Too funny. Its also a complete goof how some people are simultaneously revising their opinions of McNabb and ripping Douglas' remarks. Douglas confirmed what many already suspected which was that McNabb has no intestinal fortitude as a leader and the team in general is lacking leadership because they failed to rally fully around either Owens or McNabb to resolve all the problems as they were unfolding.

Play2win
02-02-2006, 02:59 PM
Stupid hillbillies.
Speaking of CSU, how do you think the RAMS will do next year...

Bronx33
02-02-2006, 02:59 PM
wow another TO thread....::)

Smiling Assassin27
02-02-2006, 03:01 PM
the only stat that concerns me is the number '2'...2 teams, 2 trainwrecks, 2 teams gutted after TO did his thing.

Elway 4 Life
02-02-2006, 03:14 PM
i'll never criticize a qb for taking charge in the huddle...i am critisizing mcnabb for how to tried to take charge.

we all know TO is a problem child. we all know he is pretty freakin good on the field.

leadership is not all about jumping all over someone or telling them to shut up. leadership is much much more - sometimes it is listening or being able to recognize how to react with someone.

TO is a beast on the field. mcnabb should have recognized who he was dealing with...and should have realized that jumping all over TO is not going to help anything at all.

vance and TO are vastly different, as are elway and mcnabb. no comparison...but giving into the argument, i think elway would have even reacted differently with TO.
There would not have been a problem between them. They would have had record seasons together. Mcnabb is absopositively not a leader. He is an arrogant money hungry QB. He is as selfish as TO. TO just cant keep his mouth shut.

Odysseus
02-02-2006, 03:19 PM
Doesn't help that Jake can't throw a simple fade to the corner of the end zone.

You know. That really kind of stings there is a whole lotta truth in that.

scorpio
02-02-2006, 03:20 PM
Speaking of CSU, how do you think the RAMS will do next year...


We'll probably still barely lose to a team that has twice our training budget.

FU CU.

Lidderer
02-02-2006, 03:51 PM
You know. That really kind of stings there is a whole lotta truth in that.

ya know, the fade is the lowest % passing play in football. By a landslide.

Old Dude
02-02-2006, 03:52 PM
Great article:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13776605.htm

Lidderer
02-02-2006, 03:56 PM
Yeah, that awesome Plummer/Boston paradigm led the Cardinals to 3-13, 7-9 and 5-11 records. I guess by leadership, you mean leading your team into last place.


well I see your point, Slap, but I'm gonna counter with

rod smith > frank sanders
ashley lelie > martay jenkins
Tatum Bell > adrien murrel
Mike anderson >mario bates
Putzier > no clue

DBroncos4life
02-02-2006, 04:18 PM
You don't think a massive number of injuries to key players might not have sprung the leak on the Eagles season rather than anything TO said?
Ive already said that I don't think the mid season injuries ****ed the team as much as TO's preseason crap.

Atlas
02-02-2006, 04:21 PM
Doesn't help that Jake can't throw a simple fade to the corner of the end zone.

That might have been one of the worst passes I have ever seen

Atlas
02-02-2006, 04:22 PM
ya know, the fade is the lowest % passing play in football. By a landslide.

I disagree with that.

Well, it is in Denver anyway.

Lidderer
02-02-2006, 04:29 PM
I disagree with that.

Well, it is in Denver anyway.


No, it's been documented. I can't recall where I read it, but I'll track it down for you.

Rock Chalk
02-02-2006, 06:23 PM
25 pages of 40 posts per page of garbage.

America using her resources best.

Bronco_Beerslug
02-02-2006, 06:26 PM
25 pages of 40 posts per page of garbage.

America using her resources best.
Who died and made you queen?

Rock Chalk
02-02-2006, 06:28 PM
Who died and made you queen?
wtf are you talking about?

Bronco_Beerslug
02-02-2006, 06:32 PM
wtf are you talking about?
You calling every post in the thread garbarge.

-Slap-
02-02-2006, 06:35 PM
You calling every post in the thread garbarge.
Well, mine aren't.

:sunshine:

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2006, 06:37 PM
Well, mine aren't.

:sunshine:

Yah, what he said.

BroncoInferno
02-03-2006, 07:01 AM
Ive already said that I don't think the mid season injuries ****ed the team as much as TO's preseason crap.

You do realize they started 4-2? It was at this point that the injuries had really piled up and, funny thing, they started losing. Or maybe it just took 6 regular season games for Philly's players to really digest TO's preseason comments ???

fontaine
02-03-2006, 07:18 AM
This is sort of the point though, or at least where the 'question' arises, no?

General rules[always shhh when in the huddle unless you're a qb] yield general results, and when your status as Field General has been significantly buoyed by the addition of one player[T.O.], maybe taking his needs into consideration would be wiser than reverting back to your old generic production. Generally speaking, of course.

It's a grey situation at any rate, and probably shouldn't be swiped aside by mentions of golden rules and junk like that.

It might have been a grey situation if it was an isolated case or TO was known as a humble, unselfish team player.

ie: If Rod mentions something in the huddle briefly then I'm sure the players would respect that (if done in the right time and place). Rod's earned that respect.

However, put yourself in McNabb's shoes, or anyone else in that huddle. You know TO has a rep for calling people out publicly. Hell, he publicly called his last "leader" gay and questioned his arm strength. Bearing that in mind, if TO starts pouting, complaining or calling shots in the huddle then wouldn't you be inclined to dish out some STFU to him?

Old Dude
02-03-2006, 08:34 AM
25 pages of 40 posts per page of garbage.

America using her resources best.

Sorry, Alec. I apologize. I'll try to go back and delete as many of my posts as I can, but I probably passed the time limit.

fontaine
02-03-2006, 08:53 AM
Sorry, Alec. I apologize. I'll try to go back and delete as many of my posts as I can, but I probably passed the time limit.

Ha!

Damn you Old Dude, now my coffee is all the monitor.

spdirty
02-03-2006, 06:48 PM
that was my exact point in my thread


Wheres your thread at?

-Slap-
02-03-2006, 06:54 PM
wow and i mean that in good way...are you a closet bronco fan
He's a closet pig ****er.

DBroncos4life
02-03-2006, 07:12 PM
Wheres your thread at?
Wheres your thread at, wheres your thread at, wheres your thread at. Don't let the walls cave in on you, we can't evolve without you

ludo21
02-03-2006, 07:31 PM
only 2 more to 1k!!!

ludo21
02-03-2006, 07:32 PM
Alright 1000!!!!

Now lets go get TO and put him in a Bronco uni!!!

Anyone else think that a guy like Jeb woud really benfit from him here?