Democratically Elected Terror Group Celebrates Election Results

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Isn't this what Bush says our mission is now (to free the people so they can vote in democratic elections)?

-------------------------------------------------
Hamas Wins Landslide 76 Seats
By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago

RAMALLAH, West Bank - Hamas won a landslide victory in parliamentary elections as Palestinian voters rejected the longtime rule of the corruption-ridden
Fatah Party, according to nearly complete official returns Thursday. The triumph by the Islamic militant group plunged the future of Mideast peacemaking into turmoil.

Palestinian leaders, stunned by the militant group's sweeping victory, huddled to determine the shape of a new government as world leaders, including
President Bush, insisted Hamas renounce violence and recognize
Israel's right to exist.

Hamas won 76 seats in the 132-member parliament, while Fatah, which controlled Palestinian politics for four decades, won 43 seats, said Hanna Nasser, head of the Central Election commission. The 13 remaining seats went to several smaller parties and independents.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060126/capt.jrl10101260834.mideast_israel_palestinians_el ections_jrl101.jpg?x=380&y=252&sig=UE3s9Cqvl8oFc1BsDfHkZg--
Palestinian supporters of Islamic Hamas wave flags during a rally in support of candidates for the Palestinian parliamentary elections in the West Bank town of Hebron in this Monday, Jan. 23, 2006 file photo. Despite no immediate public displays of celebration, Hamas on Thursday claimed victory in Wednesday's election, saying that based on partial results it won a solid majority of seats, a dramatic upset confirmed by senior officials in the rival Fatah Party. Israel and the United States have said they would not deal with a Hamas-led Palestinian government. Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has said he would step down if he could no longer pursue his peace agenda with Israel. (AP Photo/Kevin Frayer)


The result was based on a count of 95 percent of the vote and still could change slightly, Nasser said.

Hamas supporters raised their flag over the Palestinian parliament and rushed into the building amid clashes with Fatah loyalists a day after winning parliamentary elections.

The two camps threw stones at each other, breaking windows in the building, as Fatah supporters briefly tried to lower the green Hamas banners. The crowd of about 3,000 Hamas backers cheered and whistled as activists on the roof of the parliament raised the Hamas banner again.

It was the first confrontation between Hamas and Fatah since the Islamic militant group won parliamentary elections on Wednesday.

Palestinian leaders huddled to determine what role the Islamic militant group will play in governing the territories.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas will ask Hamas to form the next government, with his defeated Fatah Party weighing whether to form a partnership or serve in the opposition.

A Hamas government, without Fatah as a moderating force, would greatly complicate Abbas' efforts to restart peace talks. The Islamic militants, who carried out dozens of suicide bombings and seek Israel's destruction, have said they oppose peace talks and will not disarm. Israel and the United States refuse to deal with Hamas.

The top Hamas leader, Khaled Mashaal told Abbas his group is ready for a political partnership, Hamas said.

In a first sign of pragmatism, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said the group would extend its year-old truce if Israel reciprocates. "If not, then I think we will have no option but to protect our people and our land," he told Associated Press Television News.

Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice said the U.S. position on Hamas as a terrorist organization has not changed despite the outcome.

"You cannot have one foot in politics and another in terror," she told an international conference in Davos, Switzerland, via a telephone hookup from Washington.

She said she had called Abbas as well as U.N. Secretary-General
Kofi Annan and Israel's Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni.

"The Palestinians have a constitutional process that they will now follow. We ask all parties to respect this process so that it can unfold in an atmosphere of calm and security," Rice said.

Abbas' office said she told him that the Bush administration "will continue supporting the elected president and his policies," said Nabil Abu Rdeneh, an Abbas aide.

Abbas was elected separately a year ago and remains president. However, the Palestinian leader has said he would resign if he could no longer pursue his peace agenda. The Cabinet and legislature must approve any major initiative by Abbas, giving Hamas tremendous influence over peace moves.

Aides said he planned a major speech Thursday night, after final results are announced by the Central Election Commission.

Acknowledging the Hamas victory, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia and his Cabinet ministers resigned hours before official results were released.

"This is the choice of the people. It should be respected," Qureia said. "If it's true, then the president should ask Hamas to form a new government." The Cabinet remained in office in a caretaker capacity.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/coozd

[enjolras]

This is definitely a test of Americans commitment to democracy.

Democracy is easy when people vote for what you support.

[Hotrod]

Hamas is on the terrorist list correct??? Does that mean

1. If the there is a suicide bomging and Hamas takes credit for that then would be an act of war since they are now the government? Israel would have the right to defend itself no ???
2. We dont negotiate with terrorists does that mean we have to back out of the "road map for peace" ???

IMO this is a very dark day in world history.

[bendog]

Might not be a bad thing. Hamas can decide if they want an end to "occupation" or Israel, and Israel can decide what they mean by "permanent borders."

[Hotrod]

Might not be a bad thing. Hamas can decide if they want an end to "occupation" or Israel, and Israel can decide what they mean by "permanent borders."

Um are you serious? they want nothing less the the complete destruction of Israel period.

[TheDave]

and people wonder why some of us thought starting a war/occupation in the middle east was a bad idea...

[Mile High Shack]

and people wonder why some of us thought starting a war/occupation in the middle east was a bad idea...

as far as I know, Hamas and Palestine has little to do with Iraq

[Garcia Bronco]

This is definitely a test of Americans commitment to democracy.

Democracy is easy when people vote for what you support.

Indeed. Hopefully some good will come of it.

[Hotrod]

as far as I know, Hamas and Palestine has little to do with Iraq

Exactly but I fully expect this thread to soon become a Bush sucks pep-ralley.

[TheDave]

as far as I know, Hamas and Palestine has little to do with Iraq

and as far as we both know that whole region is nuts. This is just another example of how this group thinks.

[enjolras]

Um are you serious? they want nothing less the the complete destruction of Israel period.

That is a gross overgeneralization. That's like saying all Republicans want a theocracy. Sure, there are those that do but its certainly not the goal of the overall movement.

From what I've read about Hamas it seems that they really are dedicated more the cause of a independent Palestine than the destruction of Isreal. Their tactics (and they have been behind many suicide bombings within Isreal) are absolutely criminal, but their motives seem fair enough.

From what I've seen on the election it seems that Hamas derives its primary support from the fact that people beleive they can make PEACE with Isreal... People in Palestine have apparently grown quite fed up with corruption within Fatah, and more importantly their inability to broker any kind of lasting peace with Isreal.

It'll be interesting to see how Hamas pursues this new found mandate. Will they live up to their promise of brining an end to the violence in the region and secure a independent Palestinian state? Or are they really nothing more than a terrorist organization?

Its certainly not making the mess in that region any less murky.


*NOTE: Todays coverage seems to be contradictory to what I was seeing yesterday. One article I just read specifically says 'Hamas is formally dedicated to the destruction of Isreal'. I honestly have no flipping idea what's going on at this point :)

[bendog]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060125/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_israel_1

I can't find it now, but I saw a link to a thumbnail sketch fo various hamas candidates, and some were doctors and stuff. Not all lunies. netenyahoo and likud stand for no Palestine with Israel controlling the entire area of former Palestine and parts of Syria ... cause the talmud says it's theirs. Fatah was so crooked it could never come to grasp with the real compromises that have to be made for the Palestinians to have a shot at decent lives. Maybe Hamas can come to grips with what Sharon did.

[Hotrod]

That is a gross overgeneralization. That's like saying all Republicans want a theocracy. Sure, there are those that do but its certainly not the goal of the overall movement.

From what I've read about Hamas it seems that they really are dedicated more the cause of a independent Palestine than the destruction of Isreal. Their tactics (and they have been behind many suicide bombings within Isreal) are absolutely criminal, but their motives seem fair enough.

From what I've seen on the election it seems that Hamas derives its primary support from the fact that people beleive they can make PEACE with Isreal... People in Palestine have apparently grown quite fed up with corruption within Fatah, and more importantly their inability to broker any kind of lasting peace with Isreal.

It'll be interesting to see how Hamas pursues this new found mandate. Will they live up to their promise of brining an end to the violence in the region and secure a independent Palestinian state? Or are they really nothing more than a terrorist organization?

Its certainly not making the mess in that region any less murky.


*NOTE: Todays coverage seems to be contradictory to what I was seeing yesterday. One article I just read specifically says 'Hamas is formally dedicated to the destruction of Isreal'. I honestly have no flipping idea what's going on at this point :)

LOL Im not sure anyone knows exactly whats going on over there ;D

I guess we wait and see but if one were use history to take a shot in the dark guess mine would be things just took a serious turn for the worse in the middle east and thats a pretty hard thing to do.

[Hotrod]

I think this speaks volumes myself.

http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-01-25T092754Z_01_L25267238_RTRUKOT_0_TEXT0.xml&related=true

[Rigs11]

Bush was elected democratically, and many people and some goverments proclaim him as a terrorist.

[defenseman]

Iraq is iraq, we will be out of there by xmas 2008. However, this hamas party is a problem. Two reasons, 1) they now control the parliment, and I do mean control, and 2) they are self-professed terrorists....and don't let anyone tell you they aren't. They are convinced israel must me destroyed and are responsible for numerous suicide bombings throughout the middle east. While, the near future will be stressful, and it will, this can be worked towards the good old USofA's favor. How? One, the US and most of the civilized world already are saying, if the Hamas party does not renounce it's terroristic ways , in addition to admitting to Israel's right to exist, they (the rest of the world) would not recognize this government. Simple as that. Yes, they won. But , they lost. The ideological basis for their party will have to be scapped, simple as that. Second, Palestine recieves millions upon millions of dollars from the EU every year to help rebuild, infrastructure upgrade, etc..etc... The EU has already categorically stated continue on the path of terrorism, you lose ALL funding. Where does that put them with their own constiuants? In the pooper, thats where when the entire countries quality of life goes to hell in a hand basket. Bottom line, the EU and the rest of the world have an opportunity , if played correctly to at least partially dismantle a group of terrorists who have plaqued and caused the death of thousands throughout the region. Politically, it will work, but, ALL must get on board the train. Including sweden etc...etc... IRAN you ask? they are loving this, however, if turned, Hamas will end up turning on IRAN. Nothing could be better. Once Iran is slapped with sanctions, in addition to the inability to farm out terrorism, they will be in some what of a pickle...just my take. The Iranian issue will take at least a couple of years to come to fruition though. ...dman

[bendog]

to me the question is whether hamas wants to attack Israel so long as it's in the West Bank, or whether they seriously mean to keep fighting till the last man standing. It's own statements are contradictory. Prolly because not every member of Hamas thinks the same thing, just as not all of the Likud folks appear to think Jehova gave them the right to rule. Actually, they may all think that, but pragmatically they know Isreal cannot remain majority Jewish and hold the west bank too.

At any rate, Israel is building its wall. Hamas' choice is to negotiate or see the wall go up without them having an effect.

[Mile High Shack]

to me the question is whether hamas wants to attack Israel so long as it's in the West Bank, or whether they seriously mean to keep fighting till the last man standing. It's own statements are contradictory. Prolly because not every member of Hamas thinks the same thing, just as not all of the Likud folks appear to think Jehova gave them the right to rule. Actually, they may all think that, but pragmatically they know Isreal cannot remain majority Jewish and hold the west bank too.

At any rate, Israel is building its wall. Hamas' choice is to negotiate or see the wall go up without them having an effect.

it's not just that, they hate all Jews, period

[defenseman]

Pretty much correct. It's s&*t or get off the pot time for Hamas. Some of our "journalist" have hung this on the US since we , in so many words, imposed our will on Palestine to make the recent election happen NOW, not later. Sent Carter over there to ensure on the up and up. That said, many are saying we were counting on the "fatah" to continue it's dominance in the palestinian political scene. How, given the way this played out "an apparent curve ball, instead of fast", can anyone say the US didn't bank on a Hamas landslide? Thus, enabling the rest of the world to edict to Hamas to get in line or forget any political input in the middle east , let alone any sort of power in the rest of the world? The more I ponder, the more I'm wondering if we weren't banking on this to allow us to call the entire terrorists organization onto the carpet......and make a change....or fail miserably....dman

[Hotrod]

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

Long but interesting

[bendog]

it's not just that, they hate all Jews, period
There were always Jews in Palestine. One could argue that the arabs were more tolerant than Spain and later Russia and Germany/Austria.

But yeah, Hamas officially is dedicated to the destruction of a Jewish state. I think some pragmatists know that isn't gonna happen, without Israel letting off a few nukes.

I wonder if it'll do a Sinn Fein / IRA split.

[defenseman]

And, the real issue here is , will israel go to the gravest of extremes to defend itself? I'm thinking so. And there is the "wild card" in the deck. If they do go off half cocked at the wrong hint, we're all in trouble...dman

[W*GS]

Bush was elected democratically, and many people and some goverments proclaim him as a terrorist.

And they're full of crap when they do so.

[defenseman]

Well, I guess free speech , is what it is. Calling the president a "terrorist"? thats pretty much down right insulting. I never liked Pres. Clinton, though he did do some good things here and there, but I would never stoop so low as to call him a "terrorists". There are people in this country, that truley not only despise what we stand for , but despise the country itself. My answer: I'll help you pack, if you hit the road....dman

*George Clooney comes to mind. Enjoy Italy george, I'll never , ever watch any movie with your dumba$$ in it.

[REB]

This all just shows me once again that the Arabs of the ME are not really interested in peace. I still remember the pictures of them dancing in the streets after the attacks of 9/11. The majority of them want Israel to suffer more suicide bombings, they want more rockets launched into Israeli territory and ultimately the destruction of Israel. What a bunch of uncivilized baboons.

[Rascal]

And, the real issue here is , will israel go to the gravest of extremes to defend itself? I'm thinking so. And there is the "wild card" in the deck. If they do go off half corked at the wrong hint, we're all in trouble...dman

Israel has nukes and they will use them if necessary to defend themselves, you can be certain of that.

[Hotrod]

Israel has nukes and they will use them if necessary to defend themselves, you can be certain of that.

They wont need to they have much greater protection but thats a whole nother can of worms ;D

[Rascal]

They wont need to they have much greater protection but thats a whole nother can of worms ;D

If Israel gets attacked by a dirty bomb or by chemical warfare they will resort to something like that.

I don't think they are in danger of being overrun or taken over, for one we would step in and two they are far superior to anything that the Arabs have.

[Hogan11]

They wont need to they have much greater protection but thats a whole nother can of worms ;D

Protection? Like Israel needs protection.....in how many wars has Israel whooped the countries around them repeatedly?

Israel has arguably the finest military in the world....they could make short order of the Palestinians, Iran, Syria and whomever else without help from anyone at all. They've done it before and they'll do it again.....conventionally and with one arm tied behind their backs...it'd be that easy from them.

[Hotrod]

I still say they have a 'power' greater then all the worlds military combined behind them but like I said a whole other can of worms ;) ;) ;)

[Rascal]

Protection? Like Israel needs protection.....in how many wars has Israel whooped the countries around them repeatedly?

Israel has arguably the finest military in the world....they could make short order of the Palestinians, Iran, Syria and whomever else without help from anyone at all. They've done it before and they'll do it again.....conventionally and with one arm tied behind their backs...it'd be that easy from them.

Finest military in the world eh?

[Hogan11]

Finest military in the world eh?

I said "arguably".....hey, I was quoting Spies Like Us, sue me.

They are some really bad mofo's.....you have to give them at least that

[Rascal]

I would if it was financially advantageous to me :)

yes they do have some bad mofo's.

[REB]

Israel will not negotiate with terrorists who call for the destruction of their country. I don't blame them one bit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11009552/

[defenseman]

Nor do I. Can't blame them for their position on this. They don't want to kick start this in anyway though. Just finish it...dman

[elsid13]

Ok, first I think that there are some things that need to be pointed out here. Hamas won not because of Death to Israel crap, but rather they have been provided basic civic services(garbage removal, security, and schools) to the voters. That something PLA couldn't or wouldn't do. Bunch f'ing crooks.

Now for the good news, today, it is an elected government. Democrat election in Palestin, this plus Lebanon are really good signs that we can connect the population to outside modern world. Now Hamas has to govern vs being the outsider. Being part of the systems means that you have to deliver on certain promise to voters and if you don't you won't be in office, and you will lose support. Think IRA. Things need to done to ensure peace works but this could be a good step if managed properly

People that should be pissed are Al-Qaeda.

[alkemical]

The other thing, is it 'legitimized' Hamas. In turn, they aren't 'formless'. Now they are a 'state'.

[Hotrod]

Ok, first I think that there are some things that need to be pointed out here. Hamas won not because of Death to Israel crap, but rather they have been provided basic civic services(garbage removal, security, and schools) to the voters. That something PLA couldn't or wouldn't do. Bunch f'ing crooks.

Now for the good news, today, it is an elected government. Democrat election in Palestin, this plus Lebanon are really good signs that we can connect the population to outside modern world. Now Hamas has to govern vs being the outsider. Being part of the systems means that you have to deliver on certain promise to voters and if you don't you won't be in office, and you will lose support. Think IRA. Things need to done to ensure peace works but this could be a good step if managed properly

People that should be pissed are Al-Qaeda.

Maybe maybe not

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48519

[elsid13]

Maybe maybe not

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48519


Afghanistan was an isolated country that had no infrastructure or neighbors that act as barrier to that crap. West Bank/Gaza will have Israel will acting as pressure point for jobs/economy and information. Lebanon is growing modern democracy, that has multiply religious parties working in peace.

Like I said it there is opportunity but it needs to carefully managed.

[Hotrod]

Afghanistan was an isolated country that had no infrastructure or neighbors that act as barrier to that crap. West Bank/Gaza will have Israel will acting as pressure point for jobs/economy and information. Lebanon is growing modern democracy, that has multiply religious parties working in peace.

Like I said it there is opportunity but it needs to carefully managed.

I hope your correct elsid I really do.

[elsid13]

I hope your correct elsid I really do.


Hotrod, sometime you need to provide a positive message to folks, doesn't mean you don't have to weary but you can not always be nasty to get people to change. Did you know that two of Hamas major planks were removal of government corruption and economic progress. Wonder what happen if they if they don't deliver?

[Rigs11]

And they're full of crap when they do so.

That's the spirit! Funny how you replied to my post before any republican did. Go on with your libertarian ways.ROFL!

[Spider]

Israel invented terrorism , if not prefected it ........... there can be no peace when there is a conflictin religions , when both religions claim to have a claim on holy sites ........ turn a blind eye let them off each other , sell the land to donald trump ......

[Sideburn]

Israel invented terrorism , if not prefected it ........... there can be no peace when there is a conflictin religions , when both religions claim to have a claim on holy sites ........ turn a blind eye let them off each other , sell the land to donald trump ......
I've kinda have to disagree with Isreal inventing terrorism. During the revolutionary war, many forms of warfare were used by militias that are deemed a terrorist act by todays standards. Like my favorite one, loading a horse down with explosive (mainly gunpowder), pointing it in the direction of the advancing British army, lighting the fuse, slapping its ass, and then watching what turned out to be a 4 legged suicide bomber...good tactics. But I do agree with selling the land to Trump.

[Rascal]

I've kinda have to disagree with Isreal inventing terrorism. During the revolutionary war, many forms of warfare were used by militias that are deemed a terrorist act by todays standards. Like my favorite one, loading a horse down with explosive (mainly gunpowder), pointing it in the direction of the advancing British army, lighting the fuse, slapping its ass, and then watching what turned out to be a 4 legged suicide bomber...good tactics. But I do agree with selling the land to Trump.

Quoted for truth.

[bendog]

Hamas seemed almost afraid to actually have to lead in terms of addressing Israel. They wanted a coalition with Fatah and Abbas turned them down. People were very concerned that Israel pulling out of gaza would lead to a civil war. The irish had their own civil war and the IRA split. A similar pattern didn't develop with the Pales. That's actually good news.

Hamas has its own internal contradictions to deal with now. They cannot call for the destruction of a Jewish state and be taken seriously, because not only will that not happen for many reasons but also if they really do want their own state, they have to negotiate, and nobody will negotiate with them if they keep up the rhetoric.

Meanwhile the West has to come to grips with our contradictions. As elsid pts out, Hamas in not just a terrorist organization. It provides social services. We put frigging Cat Stevens on a terror watch list cause he raised money to feed children. We've most likely been illegally bugging a bunch of mosques in the US led by US citizens for the same thing. Isreal meanwhile conveniently chooses to forget Sharon was an early booster of Hamas cause he wanted to foster more democratic options to Fatah.

[elsid13]

best option for the peace process, let Hamas struggle for few months in providing improved economic conditionand basic government services, then the West should influx money in the form of small consumer/micro loans to general population. The influx would only occur when Hamas formal acknowledge Israel's right to existence and stop the armed struggle.

[alkemical]

Or if israel stops plowing over 'unrecognized' settlements. Each are to blame.

[bendog]

Or if israel stops plowing over 'unrecognized' settlements. Each are to blame.
That too.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tt/2006/tt060131.gif