My dream offseason.....

[Gcver2ver3]

One bright side to our season being over is now we can speculate on what we do over the offseason...this year (maybe more than ever) we have many options...those of you concerned about cap...don't.....we don't have dead money...between cuts, voids, restructuring, and possibly trades we'll be fine..

After seeing us lose Sunday...my fantasy would be this

* Trade for Ricky Williams by giving up our second & third round picks (it'll take more than a 3rd rounder to get him people trust me on that)

* Sign TO...one year incentive filled contract with a behavior clause in it..very little risk there

* Cut Trevor Pryce & Courtney Brown and convert to 3-4 defense....Myers is a massive man and can fill the NT spot...Warren and Ekuban as DE's....

* Draft a hybrid 3-4 Outside LB in the late 1st round and use the other 1st rounder on either Bing or Huff or another playmaking safety


Think about our offense with Smith, Lelie, and Owens.....and Ricky williams at RB...Plummer would be in great shape with all those playmakers...

Plus Wesley duke will be the guy at tight end next year (in case you didn't notice he started over alexander Sunday)

On defense we play 3-4...we have the best LB corps in football....DJ Williams can finally make plays again but now along with Gold & Wilson as well...our secondary will be top notch with Champ, D-Will, Lynch and maybe Bing or huff at safety...

We'd be primed for a run...that's my fantasy and I'm sticking with it...hopefully we'll come close to this type of offseason...

[ludo21]

Ricky coming here is not in my dream at ALL

Ill take TO, with a side of Duke starting.

I want MArio but it wont happen, so Kiwi is a realistic possibilty.

If we resign Dayne he will win the starters role.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

You can't just up and switch to a 3-4 in one season. Dallas tried to do it this year and there were some very rough times. It's a lot of extra pressure on the coaching staff and the players and can become a distraction.

[yavoon]

my only hope right now is that we dont reach w/ our 1sts. we have a chance to stalk up w/ serious talent and we are in a position where I would feel comfortable w/ getting almost any position, S, DE, DT, WR, QB, RB, TE, T, G/C.

so use this odd versatility in an otherwise successful team to get some REAL TALENT.

[ludo21]

my only hope right now is that we dont reach w/ our 1sts. we have a chance to stalk up w/ serious talent and we are in a position where I would feel comfortable w/ getting almost any position, S, DE, DT, WR, QB, RB, TE, T, G/C.

so use this odd versatility in an otherwise successful team to get some REAL TALENT.

if The DAve's assessment is right in that it will only take both our firsts for Mario, then im all for it!!!

But if not, i agree, this is one season that we should go with best available over need.

[DBroncos4life]

no coaches to run the 3-4 at all. I still think we can send Pryce to the Phins in some deal to get Williams. Brown should be back, but not at the money he is looking at now. TO is worthless, and wouldn't help this team. I don't get the Duke thing at all. I saw Alexander on the field plenty plus Putz is still the only TE to catch the damn ball that game. Pretty sure HE is still the true starter.

[Gcver2ver3]

You can't just up and switch to a 3-4 in one season. Dallas tried to do it this year and there were some very rough times. It's a lot of extra pressure on the coaching staff and the players and can become a distraction.


i know that....

but it isn't that big of a switch for us as you might think...

personnel wise we're close...it starts with a big NT and i think Myers can play that role...he's huge and atheletic and strong...

also you need LB's...well we have the best in the business there...plus you need a big hybrid outside LB...well we have some possibles in maybe engleberger or Patrick Chukrurah....but we'd probably need to draft one...

then there is coaching...remember we were already planning for a 3-4 switch last year but changed our minds because "A" we aquired so many d-lineman from Cleveland and "B" we kept Trevor Pryce...so the coaches already have a pretty good knowledge of 3-4 schemes...i say we get someone from the outside that knows it better to consult and help us there..

all in all it would be easier for us to do this than to get a stud or two 4-3 d-lineman...those are hard to find and expensive regardless...

[ludo21]

my dream offseason enlies in my avatar. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Gcver2ver3]

no coaches to run the 3-4 at all. I still think we can send Pryce to the Phins in some deal to get Williams. Brown should be back, but not at the money he is looking at now. TO is worthless, and wouldn't help this team. I don't get the Duke thing at all. I saw Alexander on the field plenty plus Putz is still the only TE to catch the damn ball that game. Pretty sure HE is still the true starter.


then you weren't watching close enough...Duke started over Putzier...

looks like i said he started over alexander...my bad i meant putzier..

Denver Post noticed the same thing...here is the article

The Denver Post reports Broncos rookie TE Wesley Duke, a former college basketball player, started the AFC Championship Game. Duke started with regular Broncos starting TE Stephen Alexander in a double-tight end set. The Broncos used the double tight end set early Sunday to help fight against the Steelers' blitz. Duke was signed as an undrafted college free agent in April. He didn't play college football. He played basketball at Mercer University. Duke started the season on the 53-man roster and was then cut and signed to the practice squad. He was later signed to the active roster. Duke has caught one NFL pass, a touchdown reception in a win at Buffalo on Dec. 17. Duke likely will play in NFL Europe this spring.

[DBroncos4life]

i know that....

but it isn't that big of a switch for us as you might think...

personnel wise we're close...it starts with a big NT and i think Myers can play that role...he's huge and atheletic and strong...

also you need LB's...well we have the best in the business there...plus you need a big hybrid outside LB...well we have some possibles in maybe engleberger or Patrick Chukrurah....but we'd probably need to draft one...

then there is coaching...remember we were already planning for a 3-4 switch last year but changed our minds because "A" we aquired so many d-lineman from Cleveland and "B" we kept Trevor Pryce...so the coaches already have a pretty good knowledge of 3-4 schemes...i say we get someone from the outside that knows it better to consult and help us there..

all in all it would be easier for us to do this than to get a stud or two 4-3 d-lineman...those are hard to find and expensive regardless...
We had ZERO plans to switch to the 3-4. Coyer has never coached it and as far as I know we don't have a coach that has ever ran the 3-4. You can't just toss **** against the wall and think its art. Hell coaches that know how to run the 3-4 D struggle to make it work. Look at the Faiders two years ago and the Browns this year.

[DBroncos4life]

then you weren't watching close enough...Duke started over Putzier...

looks like i said he started over alexander...my bad i meant putzier..

Denver Post noticed the same thing...here is the article

The Denver Post reports Broncos rookie TE Wesley Duke, a former college basketball player, started the AFC Championship Game. Duke started with regular Broncos starting TE Stephen Alexander in a double-tight end set. The Broncos used the double tight end set early Sunday to help fight against the Steelers' blitz. Duke was signed as an undrafted college free agent in April. He didn't play college football. He played basketball at Mercer University. Duke started the season on the 53-man roster and was then cut and signed to the practice squad. He was later signed to the active roster. Duke has caught one NFL pass, a touchdown reception in a win at Buffalo on Dec. 17. Duke likely will play in NFL Europe this spring.


http://www.superbowl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060122_PIT@DEN

Duke kicks ass.

[Gcver2ver3]

We had ZERO plans to switch to the 3-4. Coyer has never coached it and as far as I know we don't have a coach that has ever ran the 3-4. You can't just toss **** against the wall and think its art. Hell coaches that know how to run the 3-4 D struggle to make it work. Look at the Faiders two years ago and the Browns this year.



what planet you been on?

we absolutely almost went 3-4 last year...this i know....

anyway.....it is a big transition but you need to think outside the box....it is certainly doable...you make it sound impossible and you're way off on that assessment...

it can happen and i think it should happen....but only time will tell i guess

[Gcver2ver3]

http://www.superbowl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060122_PIT@DEN

Duke kicks ass.


say what you want but i believe duke has a future....a bright one..

[Gcver2ver3]

We had ZERO plans to switch to the 3-4. Coyer has never coached it and as far as I know we don't have a coach that has ever ran the 3-4. You can't just toss **** against the wall and think its art. Hell coaches that know how to run the 3-4 D struggle to make it work. Look at the Faiders two years ago and the Browns this year.

while you bring up the browns and raiders you fail to mention the success the patriots and chargers had from the transition....

personnel is the key....we are just a couple of players from having great 3-4 players...

i hope we do it...

[ludo21]

say what you want but i believe duke has a future....a bright one..


so bright were gonna have to wear shades brg8')

.......................


ok that was gay, but hey its true, Duke is our next great TE.

[DBroncos4life]

what planet you been on?

we absolutely almost went 3-4 last year...this i know....

anyway.....it is a big transition but you need to think outside the box....it is certainly doable...you make it sound impossible and you're way off on that assessment...

it can happen and i think it should happen....but only time will tell i guess
Man you bought into that talk huh? We have done this dance two years in a row. With NO coaches that know how to run it then why do you think it can happen? Again just because we have good LBs doesn't mean that you can put them in the 3-4 and poof everything works out. It doesn't work that way. No coaches, no players to play the 3-4 I would say its a safe bet that its NOT going to happen.

[Gcver2ver3]

so bright were gonna have to wear shades brg8')

.......................


ok that was gay, but hey its true, Duke is our next great TE.



:thumbsup:.....:afro:

[DBroncos4life]

while you bring up the browns and raiders you fail to mention the success the patriots and chargers had from the transition....

personnel is the key....we are just a couple of players from having great 3-4 players...

i hope we do it...
Wow the Chargers? Do you know who their coach was? All that man does is run the 3-4. As for the Pats I can't remember them starting out the monsters that they have been. Im sure it took more then one year and Im sure they had a coach to run the damn thing


As for Duke, I think he has a CHANCE to be good but Im not going to get caught in some hype about a guy with two career catches...ala NATE ****ING JACKSON.

[ludo21]

Wow the Chargers? Do you know who their coach was? All that man does is run the 3-4. As for the Pats I can't remember them starting out the monsters that they have been. Im sure it took more then one year and Im sure they had a coach to run the damn thing


As for Duke, I think he has a CHANCE to be good but Im not going to get caught in some hype about a guy with two career catches...ala NATE ****ING JACKSON.


Nate is a converted TE who doesnt have the size for TE. He should be moved back imo.

3-4 scheme couple be implemented, but i agree that if we do this, we gotta be serious and bring someone in who knows what their doing firsthand.

[TheDave]

Oh God not the 3-4 talk again... Every "Insider" last year had us switching to that...Until we suddenly added 4 D-Lineman. We are a 4-3 team. We were built for a 4-3 from the players to the coaches. A switch like that would require wholesale changes . It's not going to happen.

[DBroncos4life]

Well he started off saying Warren should be a DE in the 3-4. Warren is 6'4 325 pounds. Sorry thats not a guy that should be the DE. Thats NT size. The rest of our guys on the Dline don't fit the 3-4 or they wouldn't have been traded from teams that are running the 3-4. 9ers with JE. The Brown guys. We don't have any OLB that fit the system, JE or EE maybe able to play one of them in a 3-4 they do have the size, but they don't have the speed to do it. Al is about the only guy I can see besides Warren that could make the move. Gold can't, DJ? I don't think so. So yeah I think we are about 4 or 5 guys away from making this work, then we need a coach. Pretty sure we are closer to finding one good DE for the 4-3.

[anthonypacino]

we need a pass blocking TE, I would want to fix many holes that I see if it was my dream off season I would trade both first rounders to Kubes and the Texans for Mr. Bush then turn Reggie into a WR he played that most of his soph year cause Mike Williams was gone. He would have a greater atheltic impact at that spot than at RB in our system. But trying to be real for a moment, we need a speed DE send Pryce packing, I haven't been a fan of his for awhile, we need a stud WR a playmaker, a blocking TE, O-line depth and a true real RB, I don't think our RBC is going to work for long Tatum will want cash, starter cash, we need a complete back one that can work the cut back has decent speed and can block when called upon.

[Gcver2ver3]

Man you bought into that talk huh? We have done this dance two years in a row. With NO coaches that know how to run it then why do you think it can happen? Again just because we have good LBs doesn't mean that you can put them in the 3-4 and poof everything works out. It doesn't work that way. No coaches, no players to play the 3-4 I would say its a safe bet that its NOT going to happen.



you may be right but i'm not just coming out of left field with this...

as stated earlier i feel we are close on the personnel...

LB isn't the biggest key...a big strong NT is...i think Myers fits the mold...seriously dude he's a friggin house...

then you need big strong ends.....i think warren can be one...ekuban as the other...they have the size and strength i believe...

then comes the LB's...speed and versatility...that's we would need...that's what we have...we need to add a hybrid "tweener"....

and of course coaching...coyer HAS to know something about 3-4..we have played it on many passing downs this year....over the offseason he looked into it....

we may not go to it....but i think we should....plus 3-4 schemes is better suited for zone blitzes...something we like to do often...

[ludo21]

we need a pass blocking TE, I would want to fix many holes that I see if it was my dream off season I would trade both first rounders to Kubes and the Texans for Mr. Bush then turn Reggie into a WR he played that most of his soph year cause Mike Williams was gone. He would have a greater atheltic impact at that spot than at RB in our system. But being trying to be real for a moment, we need a speed DE send Pryce packing, I haven't been a fan of his for awhile, we need a stud WR a playmaker, a blocking TE, O-line depth and a true real RB, I don't think our RBC is going to work for long Tatum will want cash, starter cash, we need a complete back one that can work the cut back has decent speed and can block when called upon.


man im shuttering when im saying this, but Dayne is the answer at RB. Low cost, and big upside.

[TheDave]

Well he started off saying Warren should be a DE in the 3-4. Warren is 6'4 325 pounds. Sorry thats not a guy that should be the DE. Thats NT size. The rest of our guys on the Dline don't fit the 3-4 or they wouldn't have been traded from teams that are running the 3-4. 9ers with JE. The Brown guys. We don't have any OLB that fit the system, JE or EE maybe able to play one of them in a 3-4 they do have the size, but they don't have the speed to do it. Al is about the only guy I can see besides Warren that could make the move. Gold can't, DJ? I don't think so. So yeah I think we are about 4 or 5 guys away from making this work, then we need a coach. Pretty sure we are closer to finding one good DE for the 4-3.

We are a 13-3 team that was one win from the superbowl. This team needs some speed a DE and possibly a new safety... The rest of the offseason should be spent on improving the offense (depth, playmakers, etc.). We are very close :sunshine:

[-Slap-]

what planet you been on?

we absolutely almost went 3-4 last year...this i know....

anyway.....it is a big transition but you need to think outside the box....it is certainly doable...you make it sound impossible and you're way off on that assessment...

it can happen and i think it should happen....but only time will tell i guess
Tell me how you know the Broncos almost went to a 3-4 last season. The current LBs are way too small to run that scheme.

[Gcver2ver3]

Well he started off saying Warren should be a DE in the 3-4. Warren is 6'4 325 pounds. Sorry thats not a guy that should be the DE. Thats NT size. The rest of our guys on the Dline don't fit the 3-4 or they wouldn't have been traded from teams that are running the 3-4. 9ers with JE. The Brown guys. We don't have any OLB that fit the system, JE or EE maybe able to play one of them in a 3-4 they do have the size, but they don't have the speed to do it. Al is about the only guy I can see besides Warren that could make the move. Gold can't, DJ? I don't think so. So yeah I think we are about 4 or 5 guys away from making this work, then we need a coach. Pretty sure we are closer to finding one good DE for the 4-3.


we are closer than 4 or 5 guys away....

DJ could certainly do it...we need to maximize this guy's talent and maybe this way we can...Gold is under sized but he played strongside LB in Tampa so he can play it...line him up outside off the tight end maybe...

Warren is not too big to play end in a 3-4...in fact he's just right for it..

Ekuban can play it as well...he has the size and certainly has the strength..

another reason i say we go 3-4 is it is more cost effective...

top notch 4-3 DE's are pricey...we don't have that kinda cash...get some bargain basement lineman like EE,GW,& Myers and keep your money tied up in the LB's and secondary...

it makes sense if you just give a chance...

[DBroncos4life]

you may be right but i'm not just coming out of left field with this...

as stated earlier i feel we are close on the personnel...

LB isn't the biggest key...a big strong NT is...i think Myers fits the mold...seriously dude he's a friggin house...

then you need big strong ends.....i think warren can be one...ekuban as the other...they have the size and strength i believe...

then comes the LB's...speed and versatility...that's we would need...that's what we have...we need to add a hybrid "tweener"....

and of course coaching...coyer HAS to know something about 3-4..we have played it on many passing downs this year....over the offseason he looked into it....

we may not go to it....but i think we should....plus 3-4 schemes is better suited for zone blitzes...something we like to do often...


Myers may fit somewhere on a 3-4 scheme. EE is OLB size in a 3-4. Same size as Willie McGinest without the speed.

The Pats 3-4 looks like this

NT Wilfork 325
DE Warren 307
DE Seymour 310
OLB McGinest 270
OLB Colvin 250
MLB Bruschi 247
MLB Vrabel 261 (playes outside as well)
Say what you want I don't see us having what it takes to run it.

[Gcver2ver3]

Tell me how you know the Broncos almost went to a 3-4 last season. The current LBs are way too small to run that scheme.



c'mon slap don't do this to me....;)

every football expert everywhere reported this....

we changed our mind because we acquired all the d-line from cleveland and kept pryce...with all those guys they felt it best to give 4-3 a shot again....

[Dagmar]

Ricky Williams would be AWESOME here. 30 seconds after his pen tocuhed his contract I'd have my jersey. TO is a bit more contentious, but those signings, with a good draft, we could (WE WOULDE BE EVEN MORE SO) be formidable next season.

[TheDave]

Ricky Williams would be AWESOME here. 30 seconds after his pen tocuhed his contract I'd have my jersey.

Let's just hope he doesn't light up 30 seconds after that...

[Wes Mantooth]

Somebody's been playing too much Madden.

[DBroncos4life]

we are closer than 4 or 5 guys away....

DJ could certainly do it...we need to maximize this guy's talent and maybe this way we can...Gold is under sized but he played strongside LB in Tampa so he can play it...line him up outside off the tight end maybe...

Warren is not too big to play end in a 3-4...in fact he's just right for it..

Ekuban can play it as well...he has the size and certainly has the strength..

another reason i say we go 3-4 is it is more cost effective...

top notch 4-3 DE's are pricey...we don't have that kinda cash...get some bargain basement lineman like EE,GW,& Myers and keep your money tied up in the LB's and secondary...

it makes sense if you just give a chance...

Warren is 325 pounds man. Pretty much every team that runs a 3-4 has a guy that size playing NT not DE. Pitts Casey Hampton 325, the Chargers Williams is 348. Those are two of the best NT in the NFL. I challege you to find a team that runs a 3-4 with a 225 OLB too. Gold isn't a good fit for it at all. DJ would have to move inside. Wow lets move the kid every year. That should mess him up. Also ends in a 3-4 more often then not are closer to 300 pounds. Our ends are 270 to 280 now and we only have a few guys that are 300 pounds on our Dline now. If we ran it with the players we have now it would be a very undersized 3-4

[Gcver2ver3]

Myers may fit somewhere on a 3-4 scheme. EE is OLB size in a 3-4. Same size as Willie McGinest without the speed.

The Pats 3-4 looks like this

NT Wilfork 325
DE Warren 307
DE Seymour 310
OLB McGinest 270
OLB Colvin 250
MLB Bruschi 247
MLB Vrabel 261 (playes outside as well)
Say what you want I don't see us having what it takes to run it.



good breakdown...

i think our weights are understated a bit...

Myers is listed at 300...he has to be at least 10-15 lbs heavier than that...he's huge..bigger now than when he first joined us...

EE is lighter than i thought...he certainly couldn't play OLB..so you may have a point there...

perhaps we'd need to put myers at end and draft a 325 pounder or sign one in free agency...

Our LB's aren't as big as N.E.'s...but they are fast and aware...

i'm not giving up on this as a possiblity...it's more cost effective and we can diversify our defense this way IMO...

in the end you may be right....but i'd like to see us try it...

[DBroncos4life]

This is what I could come up with off of our roster

NT Warren 325
DE Myers 300
DE Pope 300
OLB EE 270
OLB JE 268
MLB Wilson 240
MLB Williams 242

Not a very talented 3-4 if you ask me.

[Dagmar]

Let's just hope he doesn't light up 30 seconds after that...
As long as you don't get high on gameday, I don't give a flying feck.

Yoakum, there never can be too much Mqdden!

[yavoon]

I will say that 3-4 NT's dont need to be 320+ kelley gregg is awesome in a 3-4 or a 4-3 and he's not 300:).

[Dagmar]

And Ricky can play, look at his numbers on the field. Ricky with the Dayne train backing him up? Imagine it.

[-Slap-]

c'mon slap don't do this to me....;)

every football expert everywhere reported this....

we changed our mind because we acquired all the d-line from cleveland and kept pryce...with all those guys they felt it best to give 4-3 a shot again....
Speculation from a couple bored sportswriters has a way of taking on an internet life of its own in the off season. Anyone saying we would switch to a 3-4 wasn't considering our personnel.

[Popps]

Just out of curiosity, do we need an "answer" at RB?

We nearly had two 1000 yd rushers and were near the top of the league in running the ball.

Anderson averaged 4 ypc and Bell 5, on Sunday.

Plus, with Dayne potentially in the wings... is this really a problem area? What, exactly are people expecting from our running game?

I have an idea. How about we run the ball more than 14 times when we're playing a home game for the AFC Championship? ****ing ridiculous. Anderson had 9 carries... ON THE DAY. Yea, I know we got behind, thanks to our defense... but how about sticking with the run a little, Mike?
Jeesh.

[DBroncos4life]

I will say that 3-4 NT's dont need to be 320+ kelley gregg is awesome in a 3-4 or a 4-3 and he's not 300:).
I agree but its far from the norm. Seth Payne is another.

[Gcver2ver3]

Warren is 325 pounds man. Pretty much every team that runs a 3-4 has a guy that size playing NT not DE. Pitts Casey Hampton 325, the Chargers Williams is 348. Those are two of the best NT in the NFL. I challege you to find a team that runs a 3-4 with a 225 OLB too. Gold isn't a good fit for it at all. DJ would have to move inside. Wow lets move the kid every year. That should mess him up. Also ends in a 3-4 more often then not are closer to 300 pounds. Our ends are 270 to 280 now and we only have a few guys that are 300 pounds on our Dline now. If we ran it with the players we have now it would be a very undersized 3-4


you may be right.....

we would have to draft a NT then....

moving DJ again does also sound a bit much...again good point...but i'd bet he'd be all for it after being under-utilized like he was this season....

another point is Gold is indeed too small.....again you're right...

but i still think we should do it....screw it let Gold go....draft a big boy at NT..sign another big lineman to go with Warren at end...draft a hybrid OLB....let Chukrurah play LB....and fire it up!...

sorry but i'm over the 4-3 thing...it takes a dominant front 4 for that and we are 2 or 3 lineman away from that...too expensive...won't happen

[Dagmar]

Williams strikes me as a back with a combination of skills of Mike and Tatum. Bell just doesn't seem like he'll ever be a No 1 and even Droughns could get 1000Yds in our system.

Our running game is the strength of this team, imagine if we had an Alexander, a James or, even, a Ricky WIlliams? :strong:

[DBroncos4life]

you may be right.....

we would have to draft a NT then....

moving DJ again does also sound a bit much...again good point...but i'd bet he'd be all for it after being under-utilized like he was this season....

another point is Gold is indeed too small.....again you're right...

but i still think we should do it....screw it let Gold go....draft a big boy at NT..sign another big lineman to go with Warren at end...draft a hybrid OLB....let Chukrurah play LB....and fire it up!...

sorry but i'm over the 4-3 thing...it takes a dominant front 4 for that and we are 2 or 3 lineman away from that...too expensive...won't happen
we have warren, he is 325. Trust me I thought about this alot last year, I too bought into the fact that we could move into the 3-4, but after we didn't bring in a coach that could coach it when we had the chance I stopped believing.

[Gcver2ver3]

Just out of curiosity, do we need an "answer" at RB?





yes

[yavoon]

Williams strikes me as a back with a combination of skills of Mike and Tatum. Bell just doesn't seem like he'll ever be a No 1 and even Droughns could get 1000Yds in our system.

Our running game is the strength of this team, imagine if we had an Alexander, a James or, even, a Ricky WIlliams? :strong:

I would rather collect oline studs. its so much fun to have a dominant oline.

[Gcver2ver3]

we have warren, he is 325. Trust me I thought about this alot last year, I too bought into the fact that we could move into the 3-4, but after we didn't bring in a coach that could coach it when we had the chance I stopped believing.


i agree...we'd need a 3-4 guru to help us out....without that we'd fail...


when i said it starts with a big NT...what i TRULY meant is it starts with coaching...

[DBroncos4life]

i agree...we'd need a 3-4 guru to help us out....without that we'd fail...


when i said it starts with a big NT...what i TRULY meant is it starts with coaching...
I agree. The only reason I think the Chargers did so well is because they have one of the better 3-4 coaches in my mind. In fact I think he turned the Falcons around pretty fast too.

[Gcver2ver3]

Williams strikes me as a back with a combination of skills of Mike and Tatum. Bell just doesn't seem like he'll ever be a No 1 and even Droughns could get 1000Yds in our system.

Our running game is the strength of this team, imagine if we had an Alexander, a James or, even, a Ricky WIlliams? :strong:


exactly.......that's my dream offseason and i'm sticking to it

[Gcver2ver3]

I agree. The only reason I think the Chargers did so well is because they have one of the better 3-4 coaches in my mind. In fact I think he turned the Falcons around pretty fast too.


fair enough....you make some very strong points 4life...


rep.

[SoCalBronco]

The path to Big LenDale is there and it doesnt involve using the other no. 1. We arent maximizing value at OLB, there is a glut. No matter what, one of them will not be on the field about half the time and be out of position when he is on the field. This is true regardless of whether its Ian or DJ. This is not efficient. This is not maximizing value out of players. Both of them are highly regarded in the league. You deal one, it might get you from 22 to about 12. White is a great back for this system, MA but with loads more ability. He is thought of by some as a potential Top 5-7 selection, but I think since he isnt that versatile (not much of a threat in the pass game), it is quite reasonable to believe he may be there at 12 or so. We need to maximize value on this ballclub, make sure every dollar is being spent efficiently. This is a path to getting our Stud Buffalo without forking over that other first.

Our apparently solid cap position will help us take care of the DE need. If we get to 12, that doesnt do a whole lot for us regarding the DE situation. Kiwi would probably be there, but there is a decent chance he might be there at 22 as well and for the Mario Williams fans, he wont be there at 12. 12 is too high for Hali. So this question has to be addressed in FA.

At Safety, we need to see what we have first in Browner and ofcourse Archuleta is out there. Coyer's Cover Two Robber defense also does a good job most of the time of hiding our safeties lack of range by widening them to a point near the sidelines to cut off corners from the inside and fades and post corners from the outside, as opposed to the regular Two Deep zone which forces the 2 safeties to defend 3 deep areas.

[Gcver2ver3]

The path to Big LenDale is there and it doesnt involve using the other no. 1. We arent maximizing value at OLB, there is a glut. No matter what, one of them will not be on the field about half the time and be out of position when he is on the field. This is true regardless of whether its Ian or DJ. This is not efficient. This is not maximizing value out of players. Both of them are highly regarded in the league. You deal one, it might get you from 22 to about 12. White is a great back for this system, MA but with loads more ability. He is thought of by some as a potential Top 5-7 selection, but I think since he isnt that versatile (not much of a threat in the pass game), it is quite reasonable to believe he may be there at 12 or so. We need to maximize value on this ballclub, make sure every dollar is being spent efficiently. This is a path to getting our Stud Buffalo without forking over that other first.

Our apparently solid cap position will help us take care of the DE need. If we get to 12, that doesnt do a whole lot for us regarding the DE situation. Kiwi would probably be there, but there is a decent chance he might be there at 22 as well and for the Mario Williams fans, he wont be there at 12. 12 is too high for Hali. So this question has to be addressed in FA.

At Safety, we need to see what we have first in Browner and ofcourse Archuleta is out there. Coyer's Cover Two Robber defense also does a good job most of the time of hiding our safeties lack of range by widening them to a point near the sidelines to cut off corners from the inside and fades and post corners from the outside, as opposed to the regular Two Deep zone which forces the 2 safeties to defend 3 deep areas.



way to think outside the box.....that is a very interesting take

rep

[anthonypacino]

man im shuttering when im saying this, but Dayne is the answer at RB. Low cost, and big upside.
I wouldn't be against him getting another shot at it in training camp but my problem about Dayne has been that he folds like a wet paper towel after first contact. He has nimble feet, decent hands, can pick up a block but he is a poor short yardage runner for a man his size. Bell has his hangups, he hasn't learned the nuances of a cutback style, poor hands and can't block, I don't think Anderson played near as well as he did as a rookie, he missed alot of cutbacks isn't a great short yardage guy either. And by the way, I wouldn't mind seeing Shanny making a run for Mario either.

[DBroncos4life]

Like I said in the other thread there is a chance that we could take Hali and Kiwi in the first and follow that with Jason Avant and Mark Setterstrom.

[Gcver2ver3]

The path to Big LenDale is there and it doesnt involve using the other no. 1. We arent maximizing value at OLB, there is a glut. No matter what, one of them will not be on the field about half the time and be out of position when he is on the field. This is true regardless of whether its Ian or DJ. This is not efficient. This is not maximizing value out of players. Both of them are highly regarded in the league. You deal one, it might get you from 22 to about 12. White is a great back for this system, MA but with loads more ability. He is thought of by some as a potential Top 5-7 selection, but I think since he isnt that versatile (not much of a threat in the pass game), it is quite reasonable to believe he may be there at 12 or so. We need to maximize value on this ballclub, make sure every dollar is being spent efficiently. This is a path to getting our Stud Buffalo without forking over that other first.

Our apparently solid cap position will help us take care of the DE need. If we get to 12, that doesnt do a whole lot for us regarding the DE situation. Kiwi would probably be there, but there is a decent chance he might be there at 22 as well and for the Mario Williams fans, he wont be there at 12. 12 is too high for Hali. So this question has to be addressed in FA.

At Safety, we need to see what we have first in Browner and ofcourse Archuleta is out there. Coyer's Cover Two Robber defense also does a good job most of the time of hiding our safeties lack of range by widening them to a point near the sidelines to cut off corners from the inside and fades and post corners from the outside, as opposed to the regular Two Deep zone which forces the 2 safeties to defend 3 deep areas.


drafting that high what about deangelo williams?

[DBroncos4life]

Like I said in the other thread there is a chance that we could take Hali and Kiwi in the first and follow that with Jason Avant and Mark Setterstrom.
Might be able to land Bullocks if we get a comp third pick too ;D

[anthonypacino]

Like I said in the other thread there is a chance that we could take Hali and Kiwi in the first and follow that with Jason Avant and Mark Setterstrom.
Avant? NO MICHIGAN PLAYERS!!! Those Michigan guys were really hyped this year but IMO him and Breaston both laid eggs, he is another Marcus Nash waiting to happen.

[DBroncos4life]

Avant? NO MICHIGAN PLAYERS!!! Those Michigan guys were really hyped this year but IMO him and Breaston both laid eggs, he is another Marcus Nash waiting to happen.
There is nothing flashy about this guy nor is there that much hype around him.
Draft Exchange Analysis:
Snippet from ESPN article:

It was the summer after his 12th birthday, and Jason Avant was a young man thirsting for discipline.

He was a magnet for trouble during the previous year in school, and Avant's grandmother and aunt were tired of seeing him break windows and get into fights. So for an entire summer they prohibited him from leaving the house.

"It was torture," Avant said.

Longing for entertainment, Avant spent much of the summer staring out his window.


"My friends would come down and play games so I could watch," he said. "Girls would come and jump rope."

Now, Avant looks back and knows how much he has to be thankful for.

"I'm so blessed," he said.

Blessed to have a grandmother, the recently deceased Lillie Avant, who simply would not let him fall victim to the streets on Chicago's rugged South Side. Blessed to have cousins who shielded him from gangs. Blessed to have survived the shootings he witnessed. Blessed to have a high school basketball coach who saw through his basketball skills and focused on his football potential.

And now blessed to be an all-conference wide receiver at Michigan, where he has a 3.2 grade-point average and has evolved into a model citizen who sings tenor in his church choir, counsels young kids in school and represents his school at NCAA leadership conferences.

"I think it was divine intervention," Avant said. "When I was younger, I thought gangs were cool. But my cousins didn't let me in. They were in too deep to get out, but they had so much love for me to turn me away."

Once Avant (pronounced uh-VANT) focused his energies into sports, he became a standout basketball player, a 6-foot-1 guard who could soar to the rim.

But when Avant reported to Carver High School for his sophomore year, coach Willie Simpson made a life-altering suggestion. As Avant's basketball coach, Simpson took note of his sure hands, quick feet and superior hand-eye coordination.

Simpson, also the school's football coach, suggested that Avant find some cleats and shoulder pads.

"His reaction was, 'Coach, I'm averaging 16 points, five assists and three steals -- why are you asking me to play football?'" Simpson said. "This was a kid who dreamed of becoming the next Michael Jordan or Tayshaun Prince."

By his junior year, Avant was playing quarterback, running back and wide receiver at Carver.

"He never came off the field," Simpson said.

And people noticed. The Chicago Tribune named him to its all-state team and recruiting analyst Tom Lemming rated him the nation's 49th best player. When Michigan offered a scholarship, Avant jumped at it.

As a sophomore, he caught 47 passes for 772 yards, earning second-team All-Big Ten honors. His numbers (38 passes for 447 yards) are down slightly this season, but the conference coaches again selected him All-Big Ten second team.

But it's not only about football for Avant.

During his frequent trips to schools in the Wayne-Westland District, kids ask Avant what type of student he was.

"I give it to them straight," he said. "I was not always a good student. I was worrying about what people in the classroom were thinking about me. If you do that, you'll never be anything."

Avant also visited a camp in Ann Arbor for homeless children.

"I hated to leave," he said. "Some of them were crying; no one takes an interest in them."

Avant is expected to graduate from Michigan next December with a degree in general studies and concentrations in sociology and psychology. He hopes to attend Michigan's School of Social Work to pursue a master's degree in counseling.

"A lot of kids have no one they can relate to," Avant said.

Until now.

[Gcver2ver3]

Avant? NO MICHIGAN PLAYERS!!! Those Michigan guys were really hyped this year but IMO him and Breaston both laid eggs, he is another Marcus Nash waiting to happen.



sorry 4life but i gotta agree with this guy about avant...

i remember him well now..i've seen him and i'm not sold......i'm a dame fan and he didn't do anything special against us and our D sucked last season...

michigan has been underachieving for a few years now...i think that whole team gets overhyped every year...

i think avant is overrated too....whole telecast between ND and Michigan they bragged on avant and he was not impressive...

have we not learned our lesson from desmond howard and david terrell?

i'll pass on avant

[DBroncos4life]

sorry 4life but i gotta agree with this guy about avant...

i remember him well now..i've seen him and i'm not sold......i'm a dame fan and he didn't do anything special against us and our D sucked last season...

michigan has been underachieving for a few years now...i think that whole team gets overhyped every year...

i think avant is overrated too....whole telecast between ND and Michigan they bragged on avant and he was not impressive...

have we not learned our lesson from desmond howard and david terrell?

i'll pass on avant
So you are going to lump him in with two guys picked in the top ten? He is a third to fourth round guy with a chance at a second round if his combine goes great. Against ND he had 5 catches for 90 yards, thats a 18 yard per catch avg. I can't say that is bad at all. As far as him being a Mich player, trust me Im no where near being a fan of theirs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133755

[Gcver2ver3]

So you are going to lump him in with two guys picked in the top ten? He is a third to fourth round guy with a chance at a second round if his combine goes great. Against ND he had 5 catches for 90 yards, thats a 18 yard per catch avg. I can't say that is bad at all. As far as him being a Mich player, trust me Im no where near being a fan of theirs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133755


yeah he got those yards late.....he had no real impact on the game...

funny though..you're like me...i would've checked his stats that game too had someone rebuttalled me;)...i like backing arguments with stats also..

anyway....if you're saying he'll be around in the 4th then screw it i'll take him...i thought he'd be a 1st day pick....rounds 1-3 i'd rather not....4-6 is fine by me....

[DBroncos4life]

yeah he got those yards late.....he had no real impact on the game...

funny though..you're like me...i would've checked his stats that game too had someone rebuttalled me;)...i like backing arguments with stats also..

anyway....if you're saying he'll be around in the 4th then screw it i'll take him...i thought he'd be a 1st day pick....rounds 1-3 i'd rather not....4-6 is fine by me....

No he isn't a 4-6 guy he is going to be a 2-3 round guy. He could slip if his combine isn't good though. We should have two picks in the third so I don't see how its a problem. He's everything I want in a player, works hard, not flashy, runs good routes, and his size is right where we need it.

[DBroncos4life]

and I don't know how you can say they came late when the game didn't mean anything. ND won by 7 points.

[anthonypacino]

So you are going to lump him in with two guys picked in the top ten? He is a third to fourth round guy with a chance at a second round if his combine goes great. Against ND he had 5 catches for 90 yards, thats a 18 yard per catch avg. I can't say that is bad at all. As far as him being a Mich player, trust me Im no where near being a fan of theirs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133755
As for the Michigan thing, I'm a Buckeye so that's just the little homer in me. But I watched alot of Big 10 ball because of the Buckeyes and last year when Braylon Edwards and Breaston were injured Avant didn't play that bad for a few weeks. After Edwards left everyone including the media though that Breaston and Avant were on of the best duo's in college ball, the whole team really took a step back. I would like to see Brandon Marshall from UCF come to us later in the rounds than Avant.

[Crowpointer]

As for the Michigan thing, I'm a Buckeye so that's just the little homer in me. But I watched alot of Big 10 ball because of the Buckeyes and last year when Braylon Edwards and Breaston were injured Avant didn't play that bad for a few weeks. After Edwards left everyone including the media though that Breaston and Avant were on of the best duo's in college ball, the whole team really took a step back. I would like to see Brandon Marshall from UCF come to us later in the rounds than Avant.
What do you think of this OLB Carpenter for the Buckeyes ? I have seen a few mock drafts that have the Pats taking him. The one OSU game I saw he didn't play. Belichick doesn't usually draft LB's this high but I know he has some history with his dad when his dad played for the Giants.

[defenseman]

I prefer a defense that, has the personnel gifted enough to switch from a 3-4-4 to a 4-4-3 at a moments notice. Asking alot, yes. Why not be really good at either configuration and then the game plan for the opposition is very,very difficult to put together. Be a trend setter , not a trend follower. Realistic? Who knows, I've seen stranger than this...dman

[Willynowei]

Your thoughts about the offense, i agree with some what.

But your thoughts on the defense are very sad indeed.

If this defense converted to a 3-4 it would have to cut both Al-Wilson and Ian Gold because they are wayyyy too undersized for that. Ontop of that We don't have a nose tackle, or a 3-4 DE or a converted Defensive pass rusher...

We'd have to make about 10 changes for a 3-4

On the other hand, 1 or 2 more pieces on our 4-3 would make us an incredible defense.

Terrible idea.

[ludo21]

drafting that high what about deangelo williams?


me likey that idea. Too bad he is gone top 10 in most scenarios. But wow that would be fun.

[bpc]

Hmmm... I might be interested in trading for Ricky Williams but while TO seems great to have in thought, reality then kicks me in the ass and wakes me up to the probability that he will set our franchise back for two or three seasons because of his antics. You think Philly would take TO again for a chance at the super bowl? Nope. I wouldn't either. Let him go ruin some locker room else where. Great player, one of the biggest A-holes ever. If you were going to spend money on a WR this offseason, I would kill two birds with one stone and go get Reggie Wayne from the Colts. That way we are weakening one of our stronger opponents and still getting a WR that is boardering on the talent level of the elite WR's in this league.

In terms of the running game... I guess we could give the ball to Dayne but we will be in the same situation we were in this year and the year before. We will have a plodder and then Tatum trying to change it up. I'm tired of diluting our running game with the RBBC. We need to pick somebody can stick with them. Anderson is not bad but he doesn't have the explosiveness that Shanahan is looking for. That is a given. Dayne doesn't either. Thats why neither of them got all the carries this year. We need to find an answer this year or we will not take a step forward this next season. We either make a move for Ricky Williams, sell the barn for Edgerin James or Shaun Alexander or draft a HB in the 1st couple rounds. I think Lendale White would be amazing but I've heard bad things about his work ethic in terms of him being really lazy and Shanahan hates those types of players.

We need to come out of this offseason with a starting HB and TE. That is detrimental.

We need to evaluate what we do with our OL as well... I would say that are not in the elite category but they are a solid/good unit. I don't blame the Pittsburgh game totally on them. I think we could improve over Foster and Carlisle... the only problem is Foster is still young and can turn the corner. Nalen is older but I would hate to lose him since he had a very solid season minus a few games. Hamilton is ready to take over if need be... then we would need to find somebody for his position... Steve Hutchinson from Seattle would be a very nice fit with us. Matt Lepsis is good where he is at and we should definitely bring him back.

What we do in free agency will tell a lot about where we draft. Does the combination of Nalen and Hamilton beat Hutchinson and Hamilton on the inside of our line?

Our defensive line needs to be upgraded on the outsides. I would love to get Mario Williams, that however will be tough to do. Mathias Kiwanuka can be a very good player, he needs to fill out more though. He reminds me a lot of KGB from Green Bay. MK would have to probably start as a situational pass rusher.

Safety is an issue as well. Is Brandon coming back? Do we draft young talent and groom them?

[yavoon]

seahawks would be dumbasses to sign alexander over hutchinson.

[ro_50]

I know for a fact, your dream wont come true.

[toad]

Just out of curiosity, do we need an "answer" at RB?

We nearly had two 1000 yd rushers and were near the top of the league in running the ball.

Anderson averaged 4 ypc and Bell 5, on Sunday.

Plus, with Dayne potentially in the wings... is this really a problem area? What, exactly are people expecting from our running game?

I have an idea. How about we run the ball more than 14 times when we're playing a home game for the AFC Championship? ****ing ridiculous. Anderson had 9 carries... ON THE DAY. Yea, I know we got behind, thanks to our defense... but how about sticking with the run a little, Mike?
Jeesh.

Anderson's 33 years old and slowed considerably post-November this year. On top of his age and performance decline, he's also still just 1 season removed from major injury. Mike's been a great player but the cards are simply against him being the long-term answer (or maybe even the answer next year).

Bell, well, what happened to Bell? The fact that the 33 year old coming off a season ending injury and 2 seasons at fullback started ahead of him tells us something: for whatever reason, be it skill/attitude/ethic, he's fallen out of favor with the coaches. His vision hasn't adjusted to the NFL game as expected, his pass blocking is relatively poor for a 2-year player, and he's still got a ways to go with pass receiving. His durability to carry a full 20+ carries a game over the course of 17 weeks is somewhat questioned too after his string of minor injuries. There could also still be some lingering fumble concerns. He's a homerun threat with his speed but is he the answer? Apparently the staff thinks not.

They both had great years, no doubt. Individually, though, neither of them gives defenses anything to fear. MA fights and gets tough yards but he's not a homerun threat. TB, on the other hand, defenses know if they contain him up front he's not doing major damage. Our rushing attack, the focal point of our offense, while solid this year simply lacked "identity."

Portis, for example, was something to be reckoned with...he had the breakaway speed, ran for tough yards, and DEF schemes had to be made around him. MA and TB, collectively, are just a good rushing unit but don't pose the same threat I saw with Portis. Now DEFs can simply plan to "make Plummer beat us" without the threat of a truely deadly runing game. I just don't see MA, TB, or their RBBC being that force to be reckoned with. Like I did with Portis. Or LT in San Diego. Or LJ in KC. Or Alexander in Seattle.

Maybe I just don't see us as a RBBC team....but with Mike's age and history and the coaches lack of faith in Bell I just don't think they're either the "answer."

[Gcver2ver3]

and I don't know how you can say they came late when the game didn't mean anything. ND won by 7 points.



you know i was trying to be pretty cool with you....i wish you'd let things slide..

if i tell you he had little impact ....how bout giving me a little credit for knowing what i'm talking about esp being i told you i watched the game...

but if you need more explanation...we were up 17-3 late in the game....

michigan scored with 4 minutes left in the game....all the while it wasn't avant who scored...as i told you he got some late receiving yards because they were playing hurry up...he got some yards against a soft defense...then ND ran out the clock...he had very little impact on the game (like i said before)

so that's how i can say they came late.....

okay?

[anthonypacino]

What do you think of this OLB Carpenter for the Buckeyes ? I have seen a few mock drafts that have the Pats taking him. The one OSU game I saw he didn't play. Belichick doesn't usually draft LB's this high but I know he has some history with his dad when his dad played for the Giants.
The kid is a gamer, his motor never quits, he was overshadowed by Hawk, and really stepped up as teams tried to run away from Hawk. Good tackler gets to the point of attack very fast, He can blitz as well, good speed. He broke his ankle in the Michigan game, he wanted to play so bad in the Fiesta he suited up with the team but never got on the field. I would go as far as calling him the 3rd or 4th best LB in the Big 10.